Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Scott Berlin. That's me. I'm him and our number is
eight hundred eight three eighty two fifty five. I'll repeat that,
eight hundred eighty two three eighty two fifty five because
we want your calls. We've got John and Jim here
to really smart guys, good looking too. They will argue that,
but they're wrong, and we want to talk to you.
(00:22):
Give us a call about your questions, concerns, whatever you're
having going on in your garden. Later on, by the way,
we'll have Joe Boggs coming at eight o'clock. We won't
be able to take calls it well, he's on because
no one can get an word in edgewise when Joe
is on the air, true, yeah, or in person. Yeah.
So now's the time to get your calls in. Yes,
(00:43):
if you want to call us. So we're talking about
things you should have done last week. Timely tasked in
the garden to continue with Sally McCabe's list from the
Pennsylvania Horticulture Society Good website. By the way, check it
out for information. She said, to start storing herbs. You know,
(01:03):
some of them are ready to cut and bring in
and dry. Time I think was down a couple of
weeks ago, not time. Time for time. Oh yeah, probably
say you could probably could bring in anything that's like
likely to bowld or flower soon. Yeah, I think, so
get it in. Start thinking about these things. She also said,
keep ahead of mosquito is so important. You want to
(01:25):
remove all standing water, all sorces of standing water. It
could be your gutters. Dips in your gutters can be
big mosquito breeding grounds. Treat standing water that you can't
remove with mosquito dunks, which work really nicely, and then
repeat as often as necessary ponds. Get goldfish or mosquitofish cheap,
(01:48):
very cheap, and just put them in there. They'll take
care of a lot of the mosquitos, if not all
of them sometimes, you know. So, yeah, mosquitoes are amazing insects.
They can breed so fast, very quickly. You know, if
you want a deep dive on a Google search for that,
you will be astounded how quickly a generation, a new
generation that mosquitoes can come around. She also says to
(02:12):
side dress now with composter fertilizers, so you're definitely yeah,
you're veggies, roses, tomatoes. You can put an inch or
two of composts around them. Yep, not right on the stem,
but otherwise. And you know, as you water, the nutrients
kind of filter down into the soil and boosts plants
love that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. What was it you said
(02:34):
during the break that you wanted to mention?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I don't recall now long Yeah, I forget.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
What it was. It was a long time ago. I
thought it was worth noting and that I should bring
it back, and then I forgot until just now.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Kind of you thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, if it comes back, just bring you know, launch
into it. Not the one that you said was, you know,
for after hours. But yeah, anything else.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't need any help with that.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I know, aside from being a very positive person,
you're kind of filthy.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I have as neither of buy, which is why I
like hanging out absolute Uh good quality compost that's kind
of an issue. How do you know where how to
find good compost? I don't really have an answer. The
bagged wins, they're all variable. Yeah, I think buying in
bulk from a soil supplier might be your best shot,
(03:29):
but even that can be anything from half baked leaf
compost to some really rich what do you call it
up mushroom compost.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
What I like to do Scott is if I get bagged,
I'll buy just one bag.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, take it home and try it out. See what
it's like.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh man, this is great, and I'll go right back
up and get a few more bags.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
How do you know it's great? What's your filters on that?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I need something that if it's to me, it's good compost.
If if it doesn't, if it doesn't stay together when
I squeeze.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
If it's moist and you clump, it doesn't aggregate.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Size is different, Yeah, I mean very fine. Yeah, I
need some little pieces of bark here and there. You know,
you don't want it real like mushy. It shouldn't smell bad.
Yeah that's true too, So that way it's not anaerobic.
Sometimes when you.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
First open a bag you get that WHI that's a
little different than continually smelling bad.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, it shouldn't have like a rotted smell. I don't know,
it's kind of earthy smells.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
What I go for.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I found some stuff at a place this spring that's
been really good. It's real late and you know, usually
what I do when I divide my perennaials or plant
my annuals is. I'll put in a little gown, empty gown,
nursery pot. I'll fill that up, mix that in and
plant right into that way.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That's about the only way to sort of backfill, you know,
get more good organic matter in the soil after you've
built your bed and everything's growing in it. Top dressing
sort of helps it, sort of does that, but a
lot of it burned up.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
And yeah, and the macro I mean the macro invertebrates,
they'll pull it down into the soil.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
That usually takes a minute.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I like to mix it in when a plant
and angels are dividing my perennials.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Have you guys, I know you have what are the
crazy worms called? That are when they get in your soil,
they'll just eat all the organic matter and tear through it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Do you know about the jumping Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're starting to show up. Yeah that you nothing you
can really do about it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's crazy. Well, well, you might want to be careful
if you're getting composts or plants from a friend you're
not getting you're kind of inspecting that first. And these
worms are crazy prolific when when they take over so
finding them isn't the most difficult thing. And if you're
seeing this tiny little worm that's just moving a lot
and wiggling a lot, and there's a ton of them,
an abnormal amount, you really don't want to take clear
(05:48):
any of those plants are soil from that property, right wow. Yeah,
joke can probably when you come to shad go on
for a whole thing. But it is really a serious
issue that if you get it, you're gonna know it
and it's not gonna go well.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah wow. She also mentions it's time to fertilize, and
a lot of people have different opinions on fertilizer, but
I think you know your annuals, your vegetables, anything else
looking a little peakd a bad idea to throw a
little ten ten ten or liquid fertilizer on it.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I like a lot of those slow release yeah, organic fertilizers.
I mean there's a brand called s Poma that I
really like.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yeah, Polytne and plant tone and tomat.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
You know you're not going to burn your plants with them.
It's slow release. They're low in nutrients, very low nutrients,
but so you add more over time, over time. But yeah,
they're nice, they work.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I really love that recommendation for a lot of homeowners
who aren't regular users a fertilizer, because too much fertilizer
is poison, right if you so, less is more with that.
But when you're using the organic products, it's a lot
harder to overdo it and hurts your plants.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And that's good, a good point for
newer gardeners, especially because you know, my son yesterday one
of his new raspberries planet had a few yellowing leaves,
and he threw fertilizer on it, because hey, that's what
you do right now, No you don't. Let's say it's
(07:21):
not the way you always handle things. In fact, fertilizers
almost never the answer to an ailing plant. It can be,
but not as often as and everybody seems to think
the root of that is to figure out what the
problem is and then go for the right answer.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Joe's going to get on here and tell us to
do soil testing, I'm sure, which is actually a great
idea if you're having lots of consistent problems. If you
have one plant that's just looking a little funny, it's
probably not the soil. If you have widespread issues where
you're seeing a bunch of different species struggle. That may
be when I would call for a soil test.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Definitely, we've got to take a break when we do.
I've got a few more things to talk about that
you can do right now, and then we'll get into
whatever I think we have some ideas. It'll be a
lot of fun. I want you stay tuned to hear
some of this because I think it'll be not only entertaining,
but very beneficial. And again, we want your calls. Give
(08:19):
us a call eight hundred eight two three eighty two
fifty five. We'll be back at just a couple of minutes.
You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berlin, give us
a call eight hundred eighty two three eighty two to
fifty five. Got two incredibly smart gentlemen who can answer
any gardening question that you have. Take advantage of them,
take advantage of their good nature, their expertise, their experience.
(08:41):
Do it. Do it because at eight o'clock we're getting
Joe Boggs in here and none of us will have
a be able to talk.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I was thinking on a break, we should play a
game with Joe. So many times we can interrupt him.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
We can't. You can try. You can't. Really, Well, we'll see. Yeah,
maybe we could derail them. That would be a lot
of fun. You should try that. Okay, well, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's actually easy to do sometimes.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Guys. We're on it, man, we're on it. We're going
to do it. Thanks a couple of last minute, timely
tasks that I just wanted to mention. Get back to
the garden center. Everybody runs there at the beginning of
May or the middle of May and buys what's in bloom,
what looks pretty, and and their yard looks great in
(09:24):
the middle of May, but the rest of the year
that doesn't look like.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, we're refresh time. Now like the perfect time, all
the all the stuff's coming out.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
That's right. The garden centers get emptied during the Mother's
Day weekend. Now they're they're back full again. They got
fresh new plants that look great, things that are blooming
later in the season that you want to half.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
And it's not too late to do things like add
annuals and add new new perenials, and you're exactly right
time to do that.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Get it out there, I.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Would throw and even planting a tree is you know,
we think fall we think the same thing. But if
you might not want to plan one hundred things where
you're dragging a hose three miles through the course of
the summer. But if you just have one tree, it's
getting watered in the nursery, or it's getting watered in
your yard, and if you're around in the summer and
you can take care of it, it's a great way
to get a head start on some things.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I think the the axiom is you should have
planted the tree yesterday.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Always thinking about a tree, you should have planned it
yes or twenty years or twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Years ago, right, Yeah, I think, especially when you're planting
trees or bigger shrubs right now, container might be of
the preferred way, probably, but if you can get out
there and water it, give it a good planning, you know,
build the soil up a little bit in the top
few inches, not down in the hole deep, and give
(10:40):
it mulch two to three inches. Yep. And in fact,
that's let's just go right to that. Let mean, just
double check my list. Yes, So one of the things
we wanted to talk about. Even though John is so positive,
this may be hard for you. John but let's talk
about the most egregious things we see done out there,
(11:03):
either by gardeners themselves or by so called professionals. And
you know, you guys are the guys that talked about it. John,
you run a company that does tree care and landscaping.
And Jim you've been a horticultural educator for thirty forty.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Years, thirty four years, thirty four years.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So you guys are the guys to talk about this with.
And number one. Number one is mulching badly. Yes, And
mulching badly is anything above two or three maybe four
inches of mulch not up against the stem of any plant,
whether it's a tree or a perennial or annual. I
(11:45):
am really in the two to three inch more like
two two. Yeah, that's where I'm too.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I wanted to go away.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Well, let's agree that it depends on what kind of
mault you're using.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Go to the good point.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So if you're using it like a triple shredded hardwood.
By the way, I'm a person that's not a fan
of the dyed mulches, no personally, and I'm I'm really
a much bigger fan of anything that's if we're putting
down mulch. Let's let's go organic and get the maximum
benefit carbon and nitrogen ratio exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Who knows what they're even dying it with you, right,
So yeah, avoid that. Well, it doesn't look that great.
It's it's air quotes safe, but.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It can it can stay driveways. Yeah, my workers get
all covered in these stained up. I'm not a fan.
If people like it, I guess that's your own business.
But but if you're using like a natural wood chip
or a pine bark, you can be on that three
to four inch range and still be in a really
solid spot. If you're doing a really fine mulch, you
(12:43):
wanted to the finer the mulch, the thinner the layer
should be in my opinion, because it's all about oxygen
getting into the room.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And John, that's a really good point. I think those
real highly processed mulches not only are the particle size
is all about the same, which is a no know
in any good malts right, different particle sizes. I think
what happens sometimes is when it starts to decompose, you'll
see like a white film developed on top of it.
Those are actually my celium, fungi and what's wild about
(13:13):
that is they can actually become hydrophobic or resist water.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
If you water literally.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Runs off, runs right off. And you know, in the
summertime we get those periods of time, but there's not
a lot of rain. Any rain we get we want
right in the soil. We don't want that rolling off.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
If you're seeing that. And in general, it's just a
good idea to break up your maults. Just go rake
it up a little bit from time.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
To cultivator, a garden weasel, a little prong thing, whatever
tool you have, all good ways to do it. I
do like the finer mulches from the perspective of those
that are breaking down a little quicker and returning the
organic to the soil. That that would be a benefit
of those finer profile mulches. Pine fines are really good.
I really like those.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I want to go on a riot right now. Let's
do it. You know, when you see it's still continued.
Nobody has ever said that the mulching up on the
stem of a tree the volcano mulching, or toilet plunging, mulching,
plunging multing. No good reputable source is ever advocated for that, ever, ever,
(14:18):
I don't know how it even got started. But if
your landscaper is doing that, it means they have never
read anything about their craft. They've never looked at the science,
they've never gone to a class, they've never looked at
a book, they've never qualified for any credit of any kind.
(14:39):
Mulching is like the two plus two of horticulture of landscaping, definitely,
and if you can't answer two plus two by mulching correctly,
you don't belong in this industry. I agree.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Also, when we're talking about applying mulch, a lot of
contracts say put down three inches of mult and that's
just a bad form. It should be add however much
mault you need to get to the desired level for
the type of maulch you have.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So a lot of times there's left there's mulch already
there that's built.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Up over years, right, So you want to cultivate what
you have, and then if it's a half an inch
that you spread on top to get to that two
inch layer, then that's what it should be. It's it's
it's so counterproductive to actually put down more mulch, costs
the company more money and have a poor deliverable for
the client. At the end of the day, with these
big mulch volcanoes, you get girdling roots that the roots
(15:36):
aren't getting oxygen as much. You're sending out advantageous root systems,
which then kind of screw up the whole plant. Anytime
you get a drought or tough scenarios.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It allows for disease and insects that get into the tree.
Here's a great idea. Yeah, let's just plant more herbaceous
plants and mulch less. Well, that's right, you're an herbaceous guy.
You're sitting next to a tree guy.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
You know it'll petition here. Actually we compliment each other.
I think you underplant trees with herbaceous plants and it
cultivates that riseo sphere roots zone. There's a lot of talk,
a lot of interaction between those things.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Of you know, you don't need to mulch. If you
have a nice full groundcover of different perennials, it actually
acts like a mulch and you don't have to spend
that money carry that stuff around. You might want to
once in a while and maybe put some composts, just
enrich the soil a little bit. But you guys have
any favorite mulches.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I actually think that the whole woodship that comes out
of the back of a chip truck is the best
absolute mulch you can do for the health of the trees.
I could go into it in this next minute. We
don't have the time to go over, but if you
want to follow up in the next segment, I'll do
a ton of good things to say about.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of conversation about that and the
herbaceous layer and.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Not the traditional look that people want with this dark
still I love the way it looks.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, it looks really good. It functions well, we'll
talk about it a little bit more when we get
back again. You can listen to this show and others
all the past shows on our podcast to search for
Let's Garden with Scott Burline on your favorite source of podcasts.
We'll be back in just a couple of minutes. You're
listening to Let's Garden with Scott Burlin, filled with all
the nuances that gardening always throws at you, all the variables,
(17:21):
all the different things we're talking about mulchi and John,
you had some comments you wanted to make.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, I wanted to talk a little bit more about
the woodchips. So the fresh wood chips out of the
back of the truck, we're not talking about if you
have a dead elm tree that's been dead for three
years that you're chipping up and it's all carbon. We
want the leaves, the buds, the bark.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
The twit, you know, all those things. Summertime, Yeah, chut
down and run.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Or just even pruning accumulated over time. But that mulch,
with that blend of things, regardless of species, just has
such an amazing impact on the garden. It's great for
restoring really poor soil sites. If you were to add
on you know, not mulching plants, but if you had
a hard pan soil, it does all clay and you
just threw down a foot of this as an organic
(18:08):
layer to work in and build soil for later. Great
way to restore soils. But in regular day to day mulching.
When I was a kid, they everyone would say, this
takes all the nitrogen out of the soil, right, I
was the argument, And I do know that it takes
nitrogen to break down organic matter, and I think that's
one of the reasons this mulch works so well as
(18:29):
a weed defender because it's taken that very top layer
and things that are really trying to germinate. I don't
remember all the details of this, but at some point
ten years ago I was at a tree conference, a
national tree conference, and a presenter had a summary of
three different topical mult research studies that had gone on.
One was at Michigan State, one was at Cornell, one
(18:51):
was somewhere else. I forget what it was. But every
category they measured for what you would want to mulch
for so root growth, shoot growth, soil biodiversity, weed suppressionist,
all these different variables they tested. Literally, wood chips was
the top rated one in every category in all three
(19:12):
independent studies from all tis. And it's just like how
and you know, it's a byproduct of our work.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Trell You can usually get it for free by talking
to your local tree care company if you're willing to
have them dump a whole truck on your driveway or
yard or something.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You know, we used to offer that, and it became
this thing where well there's a lug in there or this,
and people complained about it and then dumping the truck,
and so we actually don't offer that anymore. Just I
don't get a bunch of calls for that. I'm sure
that other companies will that if you catch them down
the street and you're.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Like, hey, can you dump up it here?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
But just if you can get a hold of those
wood chips. And I will still sell them to people
and get them chips if they want them. But it's
it's it just became such a fiasco and people were
waiting for six months for something you're going to give
them for free, and then they're mad at you for something.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I just don't want the expectation that of something that
I can't deliver a good deliverable on gotcha.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And the thing about them too is they last a
long time.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Last at least a year, if not two or three, right,
And these are ones where you can put a thicker
layer down and still.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Get their penetration.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
They lined up and they're great for nature trails, they're
great for if you have a chicken coop, things like that.
I mean, they just have so many purposes. I feel
like it's just such an all around great thing to
have access to.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, definitely, so you talk to you a lot of times.
I think you can get them from providers of soil
because they get them in from the tree companies. Some
tree companies will dump them for you. But you got
to realize it could be it could be full of
branches and logs that didn't get through.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, it's not always the most finely processed product, depending
on the day and the job and whatever. But but
it's a great product. And if you pull out a
few sticks and you take all can you have an
extra piece for firewood in your backyard campfire. It's not
a huge deal to filter through that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Do you guys ever run poison ivy through the chipper
into the well?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It certainly does. But we have actually now a bunch
of the grapple trucks which are the ones that grab
and we certainly try when we have poison ivy to
process those with the grapple so that they were not.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yet right right.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's a lot less touching with the grabber trucks than
people having to run it through a traditional And.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
If you get if you get a load of chips,
it may have some poison ivy in it. You may
want to sit for a month or two, or you
could just not handle it with your hands, you know,
use it. It picks up really nicely with a like
a pitchfork type of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
If you're doing it right and you have a reputable person.
When they do a load of poison ivy, which is
which is is rare, it's not the norm, but they're
going to send that to the dump to get which
the dump is still going back to mulch at some point.
But breaking down compost, Yeah, it actually doesn't become a
problem when it is a final process.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
A reminder that we're glad to take your calls. Eight
hundred and eighty two three eighty two fifty five. Uh,
we can do that up until the eight o'clock hour
when we get Joe, and Joe is going to Joe Box.
Everybody knows Joe, h knows and loves Joe, and he's
going to answer all well, he's going to tell us
what's going on out there right now at the pests,
insects and other things diseases that are out there. Get
(22:29):
us up to date. We were going to talk about pruning.
There's a lot of big dumb pruning that goes on
and John, you're the guy that covered that one. Well,
not that you do big dumb pruning that you know,
you know, correct you know, correct what you did. Well.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We still see topping in some places as a common
practice to manage trees.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And when did that start?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's unbelievable. And I still see trees that are wounded
from people that prune them using spice like oh, climbing spikes,
and so if anyone's going to prune one of your
trees and they have climbing spikes on, you should get
the chase off yard immediately.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, chase them off.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's a big note. But one of the things I
wanted to bring up is if you improperly prune your tree,
meaning one of the worst things you can do is
make a flush cut against the trunk. And what you
actually do is you cut into the tissue that's used
to close over the wound to help seal off the
wound that you made and protect the tree and allowed
(23:30):
to grow bigger. And if you cut two flush into that,
you've permanently damaged the tree.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
So you're cutting a branch off and you cut right
against the trunk. Yes, you're doing hard right. Yeah, if
you come off a little bit, then what's it called
the branch collar. Branch collar which you can usually see right,
use a.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Little swollen area that kind of goes out like maybe
a thirty five degree angle outwards from the top and
cut there down.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
The tree has the material in the in the canmeum
that will cover and what's.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
The word compartmental compartmentalize that wound and they don't heal.
So I really appreciate how you use compartmentalize because that
wound is always going to be there. And so if
you have a tree that's got a really large limb
that you want to take off, you're creating a really
large wound. And minimizing the amount of really large wounds
you make on a tree is imperative to keeping that
(24:26):
tree around for a long time.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, there's a thing called thinning, which
a lot of people think is topping, but there are
two different things. So that's a real that's a deep
dive into our borer culture and one that really only
Arborius should even consider. And you know, you can get
(24:48):
a certified arborius to come take a look at your
tree and assess it. We do have a caller Don
from Louisiant. All these guys screen at first, make sure
the guy's legit. He disappeared, maybe he wasn't out. We'll see.
But that's where instead of topping the tree, you're you're
thinning out some of the upper branches. And you do
that for various reasons. The tree is becoming a windsail.
(25:11):
It might blow over that kind of thing. I just
got word don is legit Don from Louisiana. What's your question?
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Yeah, good morning. When you were speaking of the which
ships wells where you're talking about any type of tree, it.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Really can be any species. Yeah, I don't know what
the main thing is. There's a lot here, but pie
makes a.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Different question also or follow up, We go ahead. I
have heard that when you're using it, especially here in
Louisiana and further south. But you know, I'm really all
Louisiana with us having such a tremendous termite problem, that
that is just a breeding ground for termites. What are
your thoughts about that? I think you don't want them
around your house or I really.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I think that's a great question for Joe Bogs when
he comes on, as he's the bug person. But my
understanding is that termites need a lot larger of a
solid piece of wood to truly nest in and use,
and that these smaller particles aren't where you're going to
find him. And I've I've used woodchips for my entire life,
and I've never encountered a termite house in any or
(26:22):
I say, house, nest, whatever we want to call it,
I've never encountered it. I think Joe could probably debunker
support me.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
On the key to that. John is what we talked
about before. It's only two to three inches, right, small piece.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
So and I would think in Louisiana that decomposition process
runs a lot longer than it does here because when
the temperatures drop here, that's.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
When things slow down.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Decomposition slows down. So I would think in Louisiana that
process rolls on most of the year.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
You know, just to be on the safe side, you
might pull it away a couple of inches from your house,
the foundation in your house. But you know, this question
came up with emerald ashboards, like, oh, you're we're grinding
up all these ash trees, are we and then spreading
those chips? Are we spreading the boar? And there's no
bore in the world that can live on a two
inch piece of best Usually it's even smaller piece of wood.
(27:12):
So they just ran out wood and starve, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And they want and they're looking for those sugars.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And that's you're on the out outside and relatively small
part of the what's in a chip.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But if you stay tuned, we'll have Joe verify the termite. Yeah,
later on people try to.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Use cardboard first, and cardboard definitely attracts termite. I may
not personally have seen it our sources on strange reason.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I hate cardboard. You know when people can put it
down to kill, initially kill weeds for a bed that
they're going to plant work, but you know it kills
the weeds because it's creates an anaerobic situation, which you
don't want for your garden. Uh So, Yeah, and you
never know what else is in the cardboard. It could
be all these waxes, blues and staples, dies all that.
(28:02):
So I'm I see that over and over again, and
I'm just not a fan that idea.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yes, sir, what are your thoughts about these rubber chips?
You know that you're seeing the rubis. I heard you'd
mentioned rubber or I mean color earlier, but what about
the rubber materials?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So one of the main functions that mulch provides is
is returning organic matter to your soil. In our American
system of managing gardens, we rake up all the leaves
at the end of the year. We clean everything up,
and there's no building of the soil over time to
replenish that nutrient layer. When you're using rubber mulch, that
is also a zero return. So I think that short
(28:43):
term you won't notice anything wrong. Long term, your plants
will start to suffer.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I have the heat that rubber generates too.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
One of my neighbors unfortunately, malts their garden with rubber
in the summertime. You know, you go up in the
garden and you can feel the heat twelve inches off
the off the rubber because it's just.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Blacking and absorbs it. You know, I've heard, you know,
people use it for under playgrounds and things. I'm not
even a fan of that. You know, you don't know
what's in the rubber a lot of times, you know,
the steel belt, bits of that might be in there
from from the breakdown process, and I'd be careful of that.
(29:25):
You know, there are manufactured playground mulch is uh. You
know again, I think a big thick layer of wood
chips is the best bat but yep.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Okay, well, I appreciate it. You have the original question.
If they y'all discuss further, that's the termite. That that's
a big issue down here.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Someone help us to remember to bring that up with
Joe when he comes on. Thanks Tom for your call.
We appreciate that. Let's take a break. It's uh, let's
garden with Scott Berline. We'll be back in just a
couple of minutes. Two. Let's garden with Scott Berline. I'm
here with John Butcher from Madison tree Care and Landscape,
all around horticulturist and tree care expert. And Jim Hansel,
(30:07):
longtime industry guy, longtime horticultural educator. So we got two
good guys here to answer questions. Eight hundred eighty two
three eighty two fifty five. We only have a few
minutes until eight o'clock when Joe comes on. I don't
think we can take calls then because he's got a
lot of material to share with us. But we are
talking about common things that especially new gardeners do wrong,
(30:33):
and let's get into design a little bit. I'm thinking
one thing that drives me up a wall, even though
I think I was guilty of it my early days.
Is the one two one two planting idea, you know,
where you get a yellow lantana and an orange one
and yellow orange in a street line, yellow orange, yellow orange,
or the daffodil tulip, daffodil tulip. It just it always
(30:57):
looks stilted and like a beginner, you know, garden, which
is being a beginner's no sin at all. But if
you can bypass that design face and go straight into massing,
you know, put all your tulips together, and all your
daffodils together, the yellow lantanas in a group, the orange
ones and maybe another group looks far more natural, and
(31:20):
if you look at better landscapes, that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
So I was going to suggest Scott, I think before
if you're new to gardening and you want to put
a garden in, spend some time going and seeing good gardens.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You know, your local botanic gard over.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
To the zoo, you know, go to the zoo, look
at how they've assembled plants together.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
This time of year. A lot of garden tours out there,
a lot of garden clubs and things. Just google it
for your region.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
You mentioned some earl this morning. Yeah, go see some
of that stuff. Another resource I like to look at
for gardenings or garden journals. So I like there's one
from England called Gardens Illustrated. It's just loaded with pictures
and texts that compliment the pictures, and I think reading
about that and thinking about that helps. The other thing
(32:07):
i'd recommend, just real quick, is start with your bigger elements.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
First is going to go. Where are your shrub's going
to go?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
And then that negative space is left, that's all your
herbaceous layer.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You know. Common but sound principle is plant in odd numbers, definitely.
So two things together look kind of weird, three looks
very natural, Four looks a little weird, five looks pretty good.
After six, I think you can whatever is. Yeah, but
if you're planting, you know one is. I actually not
(32:42):
always a great idea. I almost always want to plant
in threes.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Even if it's going to be a onesie, it's gotta
be something.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Super super specimen type plant. John, you wanted to mention
a really common problem around here at least.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Right well, Jim, you were talking about planting the trees
and the shrubs and the bigger things first, and finding
the proper place to put your one hundred year legacy
tree that you want to be there. Generationally is not
planning a river birch right on the front corner of
your house or southern magnolia. Great plants. Not opposed to
(33:15):
any of them, but we can't plant things that get
thirty inch diameter or trunks three feet off the foundation
of a house. It's just such a common problem that
a lot of landscape plans don't know how qualified the
people are that are putting those in. But you see
it over and over again, and I show up later
having to fix these problems, and you hate to tell
(33:38):
people to take it down, but you look at it
and you say, there's no good that comes out of
letting this go on forever. But I want to take
one quick second and say how much I appreciate the
two of you for promoting good horticulture and good tree
care and educating the public. And it just helps bring
our entire industry up when you guys do such good
(33:59):
work helping educating all the students, Scott on the radio
and at the zoo, always getting all these great programs together,
and it allows people to know that there is a
different and a better way to do it, and that
we're not all doing the same thing in the industry.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, thanks a lot. And that's a good point about
for beginning gardeners especially, is there are education opportunities. A
lot of the nonprofits, almost every botanical garden is going
to have a series of classes. We have those, but
we also have three symposiums a year, and yeah, we're
(34:37):
bringing in top experts and some of it may go
over your head, but you'll catch out there. Yeah, and
a lot of it will be very very good information
you could take home that day and use and just
make you a much better gardner so much faster.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Scott puts amazing programs together. He's in charge of putting
the speakers together for the Zoo pro and every one
of them is just fantastic. And some of them are
maybe more suited to something that you're more interested in
or not, but all of them have really good speakers
and there's a lot of information and if you don't
take something good home that you're going to use at
(35:14):
the end of the day, it's because you weren't trying.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's something we started. I think our first one was
twenty eleven. Wow, and it was the native No, it
was a sustainable one that we did first, and man
that it's sold out and we've just been having great
success with them ever since. And you know, they're a
little pricey one hundred and twenty nine dollars for a day.
(35:38):
But what you take away from it not just the education,
but also the inspiration. I think that's equally important because
every night you can burn out on garden and hearing
these speakers, seeing beautiful plants and gardens just fires up
the old engine again.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
And I think really the other thing happened that the
symposia scot are just a connection with people.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, and that's to find another gardener. We'll be back
with Joe Boggs in just a few minutes. You're listening
to Let's Garden with Scott Burline
Scott Berlin. That's me. I'm him and our number is
eight hundred eight three eighty two fifty five. I'll repeat that,
eight hundred eighty two three eighty two fifty five because
we want your calls. We've got John and Jim here
to really smart guys, good looking too. They will argue that,
but they're wrong, and we want to talk to you.
(00:22):
Give us a call about your questions, concerns, whatever you're
having going on in your garden. Later on, by the way,
we'll have Joe Boggs coming at eight o'clock. We won't
be able to take calls it well, he's on because
no one can get an word in edgewise when Joe
is on the air, true, yeah, or in person. Yeah.
So now's the time to get your calls in. Yes,
(00:43):
if you want to call us. So we're talking about
things you should have done last week. Timely tasked in
the garden to continue with Sally McCabe's list from the
Pennsylvania Horticulture Society Good website. By the way, check it
out for information. She said, to start storing herbs. You know,
(01:03):
some of them are ready to cut and bring in
and dry. Time I think was down a couple of
weeks ago, not time. Time for time. Oh yeah, probably
say you could probably could bring in anything that's like
likely to bowld or flower soon. Yeah, I think, so
get it in. Start thinking about these things. She also said,
keep ahead of mosquito is so important. You want to
(01:25):
remove all standing water, all sorces of standing water. It
could be your gutters. Dips in your gutters can be
big mosquito breeding grounds. Treat standing water that you can't
remove with mosquito dunks, which work really nicely, and then
repeat as often as necessary ponds. Get goldfish or mosquitofish cheap,
(01:48):
very cheap, and just put them in there. They'll take
care of a lot of the mosquitos, if not all
of them sometimes, you know. So, yeah, mosquitoes are amazing insects.
They can breed so fast, very quickly. You know, if
you want a deep dive on a Google search for that,
you will be astounded how quickly a generation, a new
generation that mosquitoes can come around. She also says to
(02:12):
side dress now with composter fertilizers, so you're definitely yeah,
you're veggies, roses, tomatoes. You can put an inch or
two of composts around them. Yep, not right on the stem,
but otherwise. And you know, as you water, the nutrients
kind of filter down into the soil and boosts plants
love that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. What was it you said
(02:34):
during the break that you wanted to mention?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I don't recall now long Yeah, I forget.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
What it was. It was a long time ago. I
thought it was worth noting and that I should bring
it back, and then I forgot until just now.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Kind of you thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, if it comes back, just bring you know, launch
into it. Not the one that you said was, you know,
for after hours. But yeah, anything else.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't need any help with that.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I know, aside from being a very positive person,
you're kind of filthy.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I have as neither of buy, which is why I
like hanging out absolute Uh good quality compost that's kind
of an issue. How do you know where how to
find good compost? I don't really have an answer. The
bagged wins, they're all variable. Yeah, I think buying in
bulk from a soil supplier might be your best shot,
(03:29):
but even that can be anything from half baked leaf
compost to some really rich what do you call it
up mushroom compost.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
What I like to do Scott is if I get bagged,
I'll buy just one bag.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, take it home and try it out. See what
it's like.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh man, this is great, and I'll go right back
up and get a few more bags.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
How do you know it's great? What's your filters on that?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I need something that if it's to me, it's good compost.
If if it doesn't, if it doesn't stay together when
I squeeze.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
If it's moist and you clump, it doesn't aggregate.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Size is different, Yeah, I mean very fine. Yeah, I
need some little pieces of bark here and there. You know,
you don't want it real like mushy. It shouldn't smell bad.
Yeah that's true too, So that way it's not anaerobic.
Sometimes when you.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
First open a bag you get that WHI that's a
little different than continually smelling bad.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, it shouldn't have like a rotted smell. I don't know,
it's kind of earthy smells.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
What I go for.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I found some stuff at a place this spring that's
been really good. It's real late and you know, usually
what I do when I divide my perennaials or plant
my annuals is. I'll put in a little gown, empty gown,
nursery pot. I'll fill that up, mix that in and
plant right into that way.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That's about the only way to sort of backfill, you know,
get more good organic matter in the soil after you've
built your bed and everything's growing in it. Top dressing
sort of helps it, sort of does that, but a
lot of it burned up.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
And yeah, and the macro I mean the macro invertebrates,
they'll pull it down into the soil.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
That usually takes a minute.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I like to mix it in when a plant
and angels are dividing my perennials.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Have you guys, I know you have what are the
crazy worms called? That are when they get in your soil,
they'll just eat all the organic matter and tear through it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Do you know about the jumping Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're starting to show up. Yeah that you nothing you
can really do about it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's crazy. Well, well, you might want to be careful
if you're getting composts or plants from a friend you're
not getting you're kind of inspecting that first. And these
worms are crazy prolific when when they take over so
finding them isn't the most difficult thing. And if you're
seeing this tiny little worm that's just moving a lot
and wiggling a lot, and there's a ton of them,
an abnormal amount, you really don't want to take clear
(05:48):
any of those plants are soil from that property, right wow. Yeah,
joke can probably when you come to shad go on
for a whole thing. But it is really a serious
issue that if you get it, you're gonna know it
and it's not gonna go well.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah wow. She also mentions it's time to fertilize, and
a lot of people have different opinions on fertilizer, but
I think you know your annuals, your vegetables, anything else
looking a little peakd a bad idea to throw a
little ten ten ten or liquid fertilizer on it.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I like a lot of those slow release yeah, organic fertilizers.
I mean there's a brand called s Poma that I
really like.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yeah, Polytne and plant tone and tomat.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
You know you're not going to burn your plants with them.
It's slow release. They're low in nutrients, very low nutrients,
but so you add more over time, over time. But yeah,
they're nice, they work.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I really love that recommendation for a lot of homeowners
who aren't regular users a fertilizer, because too much fertilizer
is poison, right if you so, less is more with that.
But when you're using the organic products, it's a lot
harder to overdo it and hurts your plants.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And that's good, a good point for
newer gardeners, especially because you know, my son yesterday one
of his new raspberries planet had a few yellowing leaves,
and he threw fertilizer on it, because hey, that's what
you do right now, No you don't. Let's say it's
(07:21):
not the way you always handle things. In fact, fertilizers
almost never the answer to an ailing plant. It can be,
but not as often as and everybody seems to think
the root of that is to figure out what the
problem is and then go for the right answer.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Joe's going to get on here and tell us to
do soil testing, I'm sure, which is actually a great
idea if you're having lots of consistent problems. If you
have one plant that's just looking a little funny, it's
probably not the soil. If you have widespread issues where
you're seeing a bunch of different species struggle. That may
be when I would call for a soil test.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Definitely, we've got to take a break when we do.
I've got a few more things to talk about that
you can do right now, and then we'll get into
whatever I think we have some ideas. It'll be a
lot of fun. I want you stay tuned to hear
some of this because I think it'll be not only entertaining,
but very beneficial. And again, we want your calls. Give
(08:19):
us a call eight hundred eight two three eighty two
fifty five. We'll be back at just a couple of minutes.
You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berlin, give us
a call eight hundred eighty two three eighty two to
fifty five. Got two incredibly smart gentlemen who can answer
any gardening question that you have. Take advantage of them,
take advantage of their good nature, their expertise, their experience.
(08:41):
Do it. Do it because at eight o'clock we're getting
Joe Boggs in here and none of us will have
a be able to talk.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I was thinking on a break, we should play a
game with Joe. So many times we can interrupt him.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
We can't. You can try. You can't. Really, Well, we'll see. Yeah,
maybe we could derail them. That would be a lot
of fun. You should try that. Okay, well, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's actually easy to do sometimes.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Guys. We're on it, man, we're on it. We're going
to do it. Thanks a couple of last minute, timely
tasks that I just wanted to mention. Get back to
the garden center. Everybody runs there at the beginning of
May or the middle of May and buys what's in bloom,
what looks pretty, and and their yard looks great in
(09:24):
the middle of May, but the rest of the year
that doesn't look like.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, we're refresh time. Now like the perfect time, all
the all the stuff's coming out.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
That's right. The garden centers get emptied during the Mother's
Day weekend. Now they're they're back full again. They got
fresh new plants that look great, things that are blooming
later in the season that you want to half.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
And it's not too late to do things like add
annuals and add new new perenials, and you're exactly right
time to do that.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Get it out there, I.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Would throw and even planting a tree is you know,
we think fall we think the same thing. But if
you might not want to plan one hundred things where
you're dragging a hose three miles through the course of
the summer. But if you just have one tree, it's
getting watered in the nursery, or it's getting watered in
your yard, and if you're around in the summer and
you can take care of it, it's a great way
to get a head start on some things.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I think the the axiom is you should have
planted the tree yesterday.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Always thinking about a tree, you should have planned it
yes or twenty years or twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Years ago, right, Yeah, I think, especially when you're planting
trees or bigger shrubs right now, container might be of
the preferred way, probably, but if you can get out
there and water it, give it a good planning, you know,
build the soil up a little bit in the top
few inches, not down in the hole deep, and give
(10:40):
it mulch two to three inches. Yep. And in fact,
that's let's just go right to that. Let mean, just
double check my list. Yes, So one of the things
we wanted to talk about. Even though John is so positive,
this may be hard for you. John but let's talk
about the most egregious things we see done out there,
(11:03):
either by gardeners themselves or by so called professionals. And
you know, you guys are the guys that talked about it. John,
you run a company that does tree care and landscaping.
And Jim you've been a horticultural educator for thirty forty.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Years, thirty four years, thirty four years.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So you guys are the guys to talk about this with.
And number one. Number one is mulching badly. Yes, And
mulching badly is anything above two or three maybe four
inches of mulch not up against the stem of any plant,
whether it's a tree or a perennial or annual. I
(11:45):
am really in the two to three inch more like
two two. Yeah, that's where I'm too.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I wanted to go away.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Well, let's agree that it depends on what kind of
mault you're using.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Go to the good point.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So if you're using it like a triple shredded hardwood.
By the way, I'm a person that's not a fan
of the dyed mulches, no personally, and I'm I'm really
a much bigger fan of anything that's if we're putting
down mulch. Let's let's go organic and get the maximum
benefit carbon and nitrogen ratio exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Who knows what they're even dying it with you, right,
So yeah, avoid that. Well, it doesn't look that great.
It's it's air quotes safe, but.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It can it can stay driveways. Yeah, my workers get
all covered in these stained up. I'm not a fan.
If people like it, I guess that's your own business.
But but if you're using like a natural wood chip
or a pine bark, you can be on that three
to four inch range and still be in a really
solid spot. If you're doing a really fine mulch, you
(12:43):
wanted to the finer the mulch, the thinner the layer
should be in my opinion, because it's all about oxygen
getting into the room.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And John, that's a really good point. I think those
real highly processed mulches not only are the particle size
is all about the same, which is a no know
in any good malts right, different particle sizes. I think
what happens sometimes is when it starts to decompose, you'll
see like a white film developed on top of it.
Those are actually my celium, fungi and what's wild about
(13:13):
that is they can actually become hydrophobic or resist water.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
If you water literally.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Runs off, runs right off. And you know, in the
summertime we get those periods of time, but there's not
a lot of rain. Any rain we get we want
right in the soil. We don't want that rolling off.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
If you're seeing that. And in general, it's just a
good idea to break up your maults. Just go rake
it up a little bit from time.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
To cultivator, a garden weasel, a little prong thing, whatever
tool you have, all good ways to do it. I
do like the finer mulches from the perspective of those
that are breaking down a little quicker and returning the
organic to the soil. That that would be a benefit
of those finer profile mulches. Pine fines are really good.
I really like those.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I want to go on a riot right now. Let's
do it. You know, when you see it's still continued.
Nobody has ever said that the mulching up on the
stem of a tree the volcano mulching, or toilet plunging, mulching,
plunging multing. No good reputable source is ever advocated for that, ever, ever,
(14:18):
I don't know how it even got started. But if
your landscaper is doing that, it means they have never
read anything about their craft. They've never looked at the science,
they've never gone to a class, they've never looked at
a book, they've never qualified for any credit of any kind.
(14:39):
Mulching is like the two plus two of horticulture of landscaping, definitely,
and if you can't answer two plus two by mulching correctly,
you don't belong in this industry. I agree.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Also, when we're talking about applying mulch, a lot of
contracts say put down three inches of mult and that's
just a bad form. It should be add however much
mault you need to get to the desired level for
the type of maulch you have.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So a lot of times there's left there's mulch already
there that's built.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Up over years, right, So you want to cultivate what
you have, and then if it's a half an inch
that you spread on top to get to that two
inch layer, then that's what it should be. It's it's
it's so counterproductive to actually put down more mulch, costs
the company more money and have a poor deliverable for
the client. At the end of the day, with these
big mulch volcanoes, you get girdling roots that the roots
(15:36):
aren't getting oxygen as much. You're sending out advantageous root systems,
which then kind of screw up the whole plant. Anytime
you get a drought or tough scenarios.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It allows for disease and insects that get into the tree.
Here's a great idea. Yeah, let's just plant more herbaceous
plants and mulch less. Well, that's right, you're an herbaceous guy.
You're sitting next to a tree guy.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
You know it'll petition here. Actually we compliment each other.
I think you underplant trees with herbaceous plants and it
cultivates that riseo sphere roots zone. There's a lot of talk,
a lot of interaction between those things.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Of you know, you don't need to mulch. If you
have a nice full groundcover of different perennials, it actually
acts like a mulch and you don't have to spend
that money carry that stuff around. You might want to
once in a while and maybe put some composts, just
enrich the soil a little bit. But you guys have
any favorite mulches.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I actually think that the whole woodship that comes out
of the back of a chip truck is the best
absolute mulch you can do for the health of the trees.
I could go into it in this next minute. We
don't have the time to go over, but if you
want to follow up in the next segment, I'll do
a ton of good things to say about.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of conversation about that and the
herbaceous layer and.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Not the traditional look that people want with this dark
still I love the way it looks.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, it looks really good. It functions well, we'll
talk about it a little bit more when we get
back again. You can listen to this show and others
all the past shows on our podcast to search for
Let's Garden with Scott Burline on your favorite source of podcasts.
We'll be back in just a couple of minutes. You're
listening to Let's Garden with Scott Burlin, filled with all
the nuances that gardening always throws at you, all the variables,
(17:21):
all the different things we're talking about mulchi and John,
you had some comments you wanted to make.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, I wanted to talk a little bit more about
the woodchips. So the fresh wood chips out of the
back of the truck, we're not talking about if you
have a dead elm tree that's been dead for three
years that you're chipping up and it's all carbon. We
want the leaves, the buds, the bark.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
The twit, you know, all those things. Summertime, Yeah, chut
down and run.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Or just even pruning accumulated over time. But that mulch,
with that blend of things, regardless of species, just has
such an amazing impact on the garden. It's great for
restoring really poor soil sites. If you were to add
on you know, not mulching plants, but if you had
a hard pan soil, it does all clay and you
just threw down a foot of this as an organic
(18:08):
layer to work in and build soil for later. Great
way to restore soils. But in regular day to day mulching.
When I was a kid, they everyone would say, this
takes all the nitrogen out of the soil, right, I
was the argument, And I do know that it takes
nitrogen to break down organic matter, and I think that's
one of the reasons this mulch works so well as
(18:29):
a weed defender because it's taken that very top layer
and things that are really trying to germinate. I don't
remember all the details of this, but at some point
ten years ago I was at a tree conference, a
national tree conference, and a presenter had a summary of
three different topical mult research studies that had gone on.
One was at Michigan State, one was at Cornell, one
(18:51):
was somewhere else. I forget what it was. But every
category they measured for what you would want to mulch
for so root growth, shoot growth, soil biodiversity, weed suppressionist,
all these different variables they tested. Literally, wood chips was
the top rated one in every category in all three
(19:12):
independent studies from all tis. And it's just like how
and you know, it's a byproduct of our work.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Trell You can usually get it for free by talking
to your local tree care company if you're willing to
have them dump a whole truck on your driveway or
yard or something.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You know, we used to offer that, and it became
this thing where well there's a lug in there or this,
and people complained about it and then dumping the truck,
and so we actually don't offer that anymore. Just I
don't get a bunch of calls for that. I'm sure
that other companies will that if you catch them down
the street and you're.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Like, hey, can you dump up it here?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
But just if you can get a hold of those
wood chips. And I will still sell them to people
and get them chips if they want them. But it's
it's it just became such a fiasco and people were
waiting for six months for something you're going to give
them for free, and then they're mad at you for something.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I just don't want the expectation that of something that
I can't deliver a good deliverable on gotcha.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And the thing about them too is they last a
long time.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Last at least a year, if not two or three, right,
And these are ones where you can put a thicker
layer down and still.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Get their penetration.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
They lined up and they're great for nature trails, they're
great for if you have a chicken coop, things like that.
I mean, they just have so many purposes. I feel
like it's just such an all around great thing to
have access to.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, definitely, so you talk to you a lot of times.
I think you can get them from providers of soil
because they get them in from the tree companies. Some
tree companies will dump them for you. But you got
to realize it could be it could be full of
branches and logs that didn't get through.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, it's not always the most finely processed product, depending
on the day and the job and whatever. But but
it's a great product. And if you pull out a
few sticks and you take all can you have an
extra piece for firewood in your backyard campfire. It's not
a huge deal to filter through that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Do you guys ever run poison ivy through the chipper
into the well?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It certainly does. But we have actually now a bunch
of the grapple trucks which are the ones that grab
and we certainly try when we have poison ivy to
process those with the grapple so that they were not.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yet right right.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's a lot less touching with the grabber trucks than
people having to run it through a traditional And.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
If you get if you get a load of chips,
it may have some poison ivy in it. You may
want to sit for a month or two, or you
could just not handle it with your hands, you know,
use it. It picks up really nicely with a like
a pitchfork type of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
If you're doing it right and you have a reputable person.
When they do a load of poison ivy, which is
which is is rare, it's not the norm, but they're
going to send that to the dump to get which
the dump is still going back to mulch at some point.
But breaking down compost, Yeah, it actually doesn't become a
problem when it is a final process.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
A reminder that we're glad to take your calls. Eight
hundred and eighty two three eighty two fifty five. Uh,
we can do that up until the eight o'clock hour
when we get Joe, and Joe is going to Joe Box.
Everybody knows Joe, h knows and loves Joe, and he's
going to answer all well, he's going to tell us
what's going on out there right now at the pests,
insects and other things diseases that are out there. Get
(22:29):
us up to date. We were going to talk about pruning.
There's a lot of big dumb pruning that goes on
and John, you're the guy that covered that one. Well,
not that you do big dumb pruning that you know,
you know, correct you know, correct what you did. Well.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We still see topping in some places as a common
practice to manage trees.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And when did that start?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's unbelievable. And I still see trees that are wounded
from people that prune them using spice like oh, climbing spikes,
and so if anyone's going to prune one of your
trees and they have climbing spikes on, you should get
the chase off yard immediately.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, chase them off.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's a big note. But one of the things I
wanted to bring up is if you improperly prune your tree,
meaning one of the worst things you can do is
make a flush cut against the trunk. And what you
actually do is you cut into the tissue that's used
to close over the wound to help seal off the
wound that you made and protect the tree and allowed
(23:30):
to grow bigger. And if you cut two flush into that,
you've permanently damaged the tree.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
So you're cutting a branch off and you cut right
against the trunk. Yes, you're doing hard right. Yeah, if
you come off a little bit, then what's it called
the branch collar. Branch collar which you can usually see right,
use a.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Little swollen area that kind of goes out like maybe
a thirty five degree angle outwards from the top and
cut there down.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
The tree has the material in the in the canmeum
that will cover and what's.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
The word compartmental compartmentalize that wound and they don't heal.
So I really appreciate how you use compartmentalize because that
wound is always going to be there. And so if
you have a tree that's got a really large limb
that you want to take off, you're creating a really
large wound. And minimizing the amount of really large wounds
you make on a tree is imperative to keeping that
(24:26):
tree around for a long time.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, there's a thing called thinning, which
a lot of people think is topping, but there are
two different things. So that's a real that's a deep
dive into our borer culture and one that really only
Arborius should even consider. And you know, you can get
(24:48):
a certified arborius to come take a look at your
tree and assess it. We do have a caller Don
from Louisiant. All these guys screen at first, make sure
the guy's legit. He disappeared, maybe he wasn't out. We'll see.
But that's where instead of topping the tree, you're you're
thinning out some of the upper branches. And you do
that for various reasons. The tree is becoming a windsail.
(25:11):
It might blow over that kind of thing. I just
got word don is legit Don from Louisiana. What's your question?
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Yeah, good morning. When you were speaking of the which
ships wells where you're talking about any type of tree, it.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Really can be any species. Yeah, I don't know what
the main thing is. There's a lot here, but pie
makes a.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Different question also or follow up, We go ahead. I
have heard that when you're using it, especially here in
Louisiana and further south. But you know, I'm really all
Louisiana with us having such a tremendous termite problem, that
that is just a breeding ground for termites. What are
your thoughts about that? I think you don't want them
around your house or I really.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I think that's a great question for Joe Bogs when
he comes on, as he's the bug person. But my
understanding is that termites need a lot larger of a
solid piece of wood to truly nest in and use,
and that these smaller particles aren't where you're going to
find him. And I've I've used woodchips for my entire life,
and I've never encountered a termite house in any or
(26:22):
I say, house, nest, whatever we want to call it,
I've never encountered it. I think Joe could probably debunker
support me.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
On the key to that. John is what we talked
about before. It's only two to three inches, right, small piece.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
So and I would think in Louisiana that decomposition process
runs a lot longer than it does here because when
the temperatures drop here, that's.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
When things slow down.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Decomposition slows down. So I would think in Louisiana that
process rolls on most of the year.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
You know, just to be on the safe side, you
might pull it away a couple of inches from your house,
the foundation in your house. But you know, this question
came up with emerald ashboards, like, oh, you're we're grinding
up all these ash trees, are we and then spreading
those chips? Are we spreading the boar? And there's no
bore in the world that can live on a two
inch piece of best Usually it's even smaller piece of wood.
(27:12):
So they just ran out wood and starve, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And they want and they're looking for those sugars.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And that's you're on the out outside and relatively small
part of the what's in a chip.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But if you stay tuned, we'll have Joe verify the termite. Yeah,
later on people try to.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Use cardboard first, and cardboard definitely attracts termite. I may
not personally have seen it our sources on strange reason.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I hate cardboard. You know when people can put it
down to kill, initially kill weeds for a bed that
they're going to plant work, but you know it kills
the weeds because it's creates an anaerobic situation, which you
don't want for your garden. Uh So, Yeah, and you
never know what else is in the cardboard. It could
be all these waxes, blues and staples, dies all that.
(28:02):
So I'm I see that over and over again, and
I'm just not a fan that idea.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yes, sir, what are your thoughts about these rubber chips?
You know that you're seeing the rubis. I heard you'd
mentioned rubber or I mean color earlier, but what about
the rubber materials?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So one of the main functions that mulch provides is
is returning organic matter to your soil. In our American
system of managing gardens, we rake up all the leaves
at the end of the year. We clean everything up,
and there's no building of the soil over time to
replenish that nutrient layer. When you're using rubber mulch, that
is also a zero return. So I think that short
(28:43):
term you won't notice anything wrong. Long term, your plants
will start to suffer.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I have the heat that rubber generates too.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
One of my neighbors unfortunately, malts their garden with rubber
in the summertime. You know, you go up in the
garden and you can feel the heat twelve inches off
the off the rubber because it's just.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Blacking and absorbs it. You know, I've heard, you know,
people use it for under playgrounds and things. I'm not
even a fan of that. You know, you don't know
what's in the rubber a lot of times, you know,
the steel belt, bits of that might be in there
from from the breakdown process, and I'd be careful of that.
(29:25):
You know, there are manufactured playground mulch is uh. You
know again, I think a big thick layer of wood
chips is the best bat but yep.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Okay, well, I appreciate it. You have the original question.
If they y'all discuss further, that's the termite. That that's
a big issue down here.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Someone help us to remember to bring that up with
Joe when he comes on. Thanks Tom for your call.
We appreciate that. Let's take a break. It's uh, let's
garden with Scott Berline. We'll be back in just a
couple of minutes. Two. Let's garden with Scott Berline. I'm
here with John Butcher from Madison tree Care and Landscape,
all around horticulturist and tree care expert. And Jim Hansel,
(30:07):
longtime industry guy, longtime horticultural educator. So we got two
good guys here to answer questions. Eight hundred eighty two
three eighty two fifty five. We only have a few
minutes until eight o'clock when Joe comes on. I don't
think we can take calls then because he's got a
lot of material to share with us. But we are
talking about common things that especially new gardeners do wrong,
(30:33):
and let's get into design a little bit. I'm thinking
one thing that drives me up a wall, even though
I think I was guilty of it my early days.
Is the one two one two planting idea, you know,
where you get a yellow lantana and an orange one
and yellow orange in a street line, yellow orange, yellow orange,
or the daffodil tulip, daffodil tulip. It just it always
(30:57):
looks stilted and like a beginner, you know, garden, which
is being a beginner's no sin at all. But if
you can bypass that design face and go straight into massing,
you know, put all your tulips together, and all your
daffodils together, the yellow lantanas in a group, the orange
ones and maybe another group looks far more natural, and
(31:20):
if you look at better landscapes, that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
So I was going to suggest Scott, I think before
if you're new to gardening and you want to put
a garden in, spend some time going and seeing good gardens.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You know, your local botanic gard over.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
To the zoo, you know, go to the zoo, look
at how they've assembled plants together.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
This time of year. A lot of garden tours out there,
a lot of garden clubs and things. Just google it
for your region.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
You mentioned some earl this morning. Yeah, go see some
of that stuff. Another resource I like to look at
for gardenings or garden journals. So I like there's one
from England called Gardens Illustrated. It's just loaded with pictures
and texts that compliment the pictures, and I think reading
about that and thinking about that helps. The other thing
(32:07):
i'd recommend, just real quick, is start with your bigger elements.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
First is going to go. Where are your shrub's going
to go?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
And then that negative space is left, that's all your
herbaceous layer.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You know. Common but sound principle is plant in odd numbers, definitely.
So two things together look kind of weird, three looks
very natural, Four looks a little weird, five looks pretty good.
After six, I think you can whatever is. Yeah, but
if you're planting, you know one is. I actually not
(32:42):
always a great idea. I almost always want to plant
in threes.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Even if it's going to be a onesie, it's gotta
be something.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Super super specimen type plant. John, you wanted to mention
a really common problem around here at least.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Right well, Jim, you were talking about planting the trees
and the shrubs and the bigger things first, and finding
the proper place to put your one hundred year legacy
tree that you want to be there. Generationally is not
planning a river birch right on the front corner of
your house or southern magnolia. Great plants. Not opposed to
(33:15):
any of them, but we can't plant things that get
thirty inch diameter or trunks three feet off the foundation
of a house. It's just such a common problem that
a lot of landscape plans don't know how qualified the
people are that are putting those in. But you see
it over and over again, and I show up later
having to fix these problems, and you hate to tell
(33:38):
people to take it down, but you look at it
and you say, there's no good that comes out of
letting this go on forever. But I want to take
one quick second and say how much I appreciate the
two of you for promoting good horticulture and good tree
care and educating the public. And it just helps bring
our entire industry up when you guys do such good
(33:59):
work helping educating all the students, Scott on the radio
and at the zoo, always getting all these great programs together,
and it allows people to know that there is a
different and a better way to do it, and that
we're not all doing the same thing in the industry.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, thanks a lot. And that's a good point about
for beginning gardeners especially, is there are education opportunities. A
lot of the nonprofits, almost every botanical garden is going
to have a series of classes. We have those, but
we also have three symposiums a year, and yeah, we're
(34:37):
bringing in top experts and some of it may go
over your head, but you'll catch out there. Yeah, and
a lot of it will be very very good information
you could take home that day and use and just
make you a much better gardner so much faster.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Scott puts amazing programs together. He's in charge of putting
the speakers together for the Zoo pro and every one
of them is just fantastic. And some of them are
maybe more suited to something that you're more interested in
or not, but all of them have really good speakers
and there's a lot of information and if you don't
take something good home that you're going to use at
(35:14):
the end of the day, it's because you weren't trying.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's something we started. I think our first one was
twenty eleven. Wow, and it was the native No, it
was a sustainable one that we did first, and man
that it's sold out and we've just been having great
success with them ever since. And you know, they're a
little pricey one hundred and twenty nine dollars for a day.
(35:38):
But what you take away from it not just the education,
but also the inspiration. I think that's equally important because
every night you can burn out on garden and hearing
these speakers, seeing beautiful plants and gardens just fires up
the old engine again.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
And I think really the other thing happened that the
symposia scot are just a connection with people.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, and that's to find another gardener. We'll be back
with Joe Boggs in just a few minutes. You're listening
to Let's Garden with Scott Burline
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com