Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Scott Berlin.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berlin and here
with Jerome Stanger and Paul Calls are both from the
Cincinnai Zoo and Potanical Garden. Thank you guys for being here.
I messed it up, yep, I go back and forth
Cincinnai Botanical Garden and Zoo. More importantly, we have Andrew
Bunting on the line now. Andrew's a longtime friend. He
is now working at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, but he's
(00:25):
been at all of my favorite places, Scott Arboretam, Chicago Botanic,
Atlanta Botanic, and a lot more. His his resume is
unbelievable and he's here with us right now.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Andrew, how are you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm good, Scott. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, it's great to have you here. You currently what's
your title with the PHS right now?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's a vice President of Horticulture.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh okay, And a lot of people know the PHS
for their what do you call gold metal plants?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
That all right?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
We have the governmental plant program a lot of people
and that was especially for the Philadelphia Flowers Show.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Oh right, yeah that too.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Also that but we brought you on because we have
Jerome here, who at the Cincinnai Botanical Gardens who's got
it right this time, does a lot with our community gardens,
and you do a lot with the phs's community gardens,
and I thought it would be a great conversation to
have between mostly between the two of you, to talk
(01:32):
about what you're doing, what we're doing, and do you
want to encourage people to call if they want to
talk about community gardens. Our numbers eight hundred and eighty
three eighty two fifty five. So Andrew, first off, why
don't you tell us a little a bit about the
programs that you do offer.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Sure, So, a lot of the work we do do
at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, I'll just call it PHS
is community based, and we have a whole divisi vision
called Healthy Neighborhoods and that has four really five, I
guess major programmatic ardens. One is a workforce development program
(02:12):
cleaning and greening a vacant lets, stormwater solutions that we
run through the Philadelphia Water Department, our street tree programs,
and then our community gardens program, which is probably one
of our longest running community based programs, and just kind
of in a nutshell. The way that program works is
(02:33):
we're there to provide about two hundred partner community gardens
with resources. So it could either be teaching them how
to grow certain crops, or maybe advocacy or helping them
with governance issues, or supplying them with salt a or
composts or landscape timbers or tools. We have a tool library,
(02:57):
and then we also distribute a seedlings to those partner
gardens every year.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That sounds fantastic. We do a lot of work like
that too, supporting basically supporting community gardens and doing the
follow up once a garden is established, which is so
important to stay behind it and keep it going because
you know, you see a lot of gardens that they
get built, they're beautiful, and then nobody really you know,
(03:27):
owns it after that.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's key, is that they have the
supports that they can stay around, hopefully and in perpetuity. Otherwise,
you know, I think a lot of it maybe does
sometimes come down to governance. They don't have the proper
kind of committees or board support, so you know, there's
(03:53):
no kind of set standards or expectations for how the
people that are gardening there should should conduct themselves. So
you know, having that and then you know, so PHS
is there always is kind of whatever support almost whatever
support they need, we can help them. And we also
(04:15):
have some we can at times provide some financial support.
We have with our longtime CEO, Jane Pepper retired, they
they raise money and her honor and set up an
endowmical the Legacy Landscapes Endowment, and that supports a lot
(04:39):
of our big public gardens in the city, but it
also supports a number of what we call keystone community gardens.
These are like the most significant community gardens. So there
is some some money in there. So if they need,
like say to install you know, faucets, or maybe they
(05:02):
meet to put in new pathways or you know, maybe
some sort of structure so they have shade and can
meet or tool set or whatever the case might be,
so we can we don't you know, that's not endless,
but that is a resource as well.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
And there are some Hey Andrew, this is Jerome talking.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
By the way, there there are so many overlaps with
what PHS is doing. We're kind of doing things on
a smaller scale, somewhat independently. At the Cincinnatzoo and Botanical
Garden are our key you know, funder partner for these
community projects that we're doing is the Cincinnati Reds Community
(05:46):
Fund and Charlie Frank and the Reds Community Fund, which
started in like two thousand and six when they would
go into the would pick a community every year and
fix up a ball field and some of the recreational
facilities in a certain community. We started adding a green
(06:06):
space landscaping component. We joined them in twenty thirteen to
kind of bring a tree planting element to these projects
and really since then, every year it's.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Grown and.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Really post COVID, I would say we kind of started
a new phase. There was a lot of like good
will built up, and we took a year off during
COVID for the project, and so we came into Avondale,
which is home of the zoo, and we were able
to basically renovate an empty two acre field into maybe
(06:44):
the most plant diverse giant school garden. We call them
urban learning gardens. Those are kind of like our keystone
gardens that we focus on now every year with the
Reds Community Fund. They're usually tied to a Cincinnati public school,
but you know that you're talking about the that endowment.
(07:05):
You've got to have that sort of like source funding.
And we're very fortunate to be paired with the Cincinnati
Reds and also other kind of like key Cincinnati institutions
like Procter and Gamble and Ge and Kroger and some
of these other large institutions to all come together and
(07:26):
make a big difference in these communities year to year.
And it's really exciting because internally we have been kind of,
you know, as we react to the growing green space
push in Cincinnati, we've been building out our own community
Gardens team within our department.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
That's just devoted to those very.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Historically challenging issues of maintaining gardens after they're installed, and
facilitating community champions and volunteer groups, and working with the schools,
not so much defining curriculums or anything for the teachers,
but helping people to immerse themselves in these spaces, because
(08:10):
sometimes I can take a little while for communities to
become comfortable and familiar.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
With their green space.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Andrew looking forward to your response to that, but we
do need to take a break, so we'll be back
after a few minutes. You're listening to let's garden with
Scott Berlin will continue this conversation just a few minutes.
Paul Kolazar and Jerome Stanger and Andrew Bunting from the
Pennsylvania Horticulture Society on the line. And Andrew, what Jerome
(08:41):
just said, what's your response to that? It seems like
you guys are probably the absolute leaders in this world
of community gardens, and you're probably two or three steps
ahead of us.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, maybe, I mean that might be true, but I've
been to Ammondale. You guys took me there one time
when I either was lecturing there or just visiting for
one of your three awesome symposia. And what I liked
about your model is that it includes a lot of things.
(09:16):
So it has the community garden aspect, It has beautiful gardens,
so it's almost like if you could take a botanic
garden and a community garden and hybridize the two. And
then the Avondale site, as I remember it, you're also
growing plants there, So there's kind of the economic impact aspect.
(09:41):
And you know, for our programs, we have what we
call them impact priorities, So these are every program has
to support one of these four impact priorities, and I
think they kind of align with what you're trying to
do as well. So the impact prior is are expanding
(10:01):
economic opportunity, building meaningful social connections, increasing access to fresh food,
and creating healthy living environments. And your program does all
four of those. And I like that. It's your programs
like our programs are. They're replicable. So you could take
(10:23):
kind of the model like you've done it Avondale, and
you could scale it up, like you could make that
garden ten times as big, or you could scale it
down and make it a quarter the size. So I
like that aspect of programs. And a lot of our programs,
like our Vac a Lot program, we get a lot
(10:44):
of people that want to come and see it and
they want to maybe use it in their own town
or city. And I feel like your program, you know,
could be replicated and you know, cities all over Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, wherever,
you know, not it not even locally, but you know,
your model could be used in you know, in Tokyo
(11:07):
or wherever. So I like that aspect of it also.
And the one I went to Avondale, I just thought
was so dynamic, you know, it had all those different components.
I think it had a pollinator garden as well. And
I know I think Jerome or somebody was there the
day I was there and they're they're planting street trees
(11:29):
out on the street, and it was like, right, is
right next to a school, so it has the school
component as well. So I think is as many you know,
kind of ideas that you can pull pull into these
gardens to make them even more dynamic. You know, it
(11:51):
really becomes such an asset for the community and a
lot of a lot of our community work, and I
know this is true for you guys as well. Is
in parts of the city that need help and where
we do most of our work are in low income
(12:11):
neighborhoods that have all sorts of equity issues, including green
equity issues. So they have low low canopy coverage from
street trees, they have low access to parks, they have
low access to fresh fruit, food, there's all sorts of food,
(12:33):
foodst sovereignty issues. So that's where that's where we really
target our work, and most of our work it is
in Philadelphia, but we do do we have expanded beyond Philadelphia,
especially with our trees program.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, absolutely, and Another another thing I think that makes
these these green spaces thrive is the boots on the
ground horticultural commitment that we give to the sites, as
does PHS right, because if we want perpetuity and longevity
(13:13):
in these spaces, there has to be not just facilitation,
but actual, like in the garden help with these places
to keep them going. I think it's it's a really
nice idea to, you know, assume that the community is
going to figure it out and come together and keep
(13:37):
the spaces evolving, but there has to be that continued
support and guidance, and those are the things that are
the hardest of fund fund and it's just really awesome
what PHS is doing, what the Zoo's doing, just in
order to ensure that these places keep thriving.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
One thing I like about the Vandale Garden, which is
the urban learning learning garden at Rockdale Academy is is
right there for the kids. And I think about how
many gardeners and horticulturists I know who became horticulturists because
of some exposure to gardens when they were kids. How
(14:19):
many times do you hear, oh, my grandmother was a gardener,
my dad was, or whatever, and that led to this
lifelong love of plants and getting this exposure, especially in
urban areas, to children, you know, to just at least
give them the idea that this world exists and that
the beauty is possible and growing your own food is possible.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So so important.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, and we installed that garden in twenty twenty one.
So the kids were that were in first grade when
the garden went in are in sixth grade now and
they've grown up with this garden and they will be
happy to lead you on a tour around it. Show
you are all always fun. The fruit, the fruiting berries
are at different times of year. They'll take you to
you their favorite parts of the garden where they like
(15:05):
to spend the most time. So it's really cool to
start seeing the payoff. You see these kids growing up
with a natural space right right outside their school.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
Andrew, this is Paula. I have a question for you.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
The follow up to you know, you we put a
lot of effort into the development of these gardens and
they're really popular, like you know on the front end, Uh.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
What does PHS do? How do they set them up
for continued success?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yeah, So there's a couple of different ways we do that.
So we have a program called City Harvest. So we
ask our partner gardens to commit to being part of
this City Harvest program, and by by doing so, they
(16:01):
they commit to a couple of different things. They get
all the resources by committing to be a City Harvest garden.
So I mentioned we do. We distribute seedling vegetables to
them each year. We actually do it in four different seasons,
so we do an early spring, a spring, a late summer,
(16:23):
and then like a fall distribution, we distribute three hundred
thousand seed lanes that we grow at what we call
four different green resource centers.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, we've got a minute until our break, so we
continue with your thought. I'll tell you what, Andrew, We'll
just go ahead to break. Just a reminder you're listening
to Let's Garden. Scott Perline our number if you want
to call in as eight hundred eight two three eighty
(17:00):
two fifty five were welcome your calls. Podcasts are all
available on at any source any of your favorite sources
for podcasts. The Facebook page in the Garden is running
right now with Ron Rothis and friends.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
We'll be back in just a couple of minutes. You
are there.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
This is Let's Garden with Scott Berline, and I've got
Jerome Stanger from the Cincinni Potanical Gardener Zoo and Paul
Culozar with me, and on the line we have Andrew
Bunting from the Pennsylvania Horticulture Society. We're talking for another
segment about community gardens and where were we when we
left off.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Remember we were talking about what PHS can do to
kind of help support these community gardens.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
Right right, you were you were talking about what the
community garden folks had to commit to and right, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's called city harvest and so they they commit to
that and then they get this lanes and you know,
technical support and you know kind of all the support
of PHS. But what they what they give us is
or what they commit to, is they have to dedicate
ten percent of their harvest to go into a food bank.
(18:17):
So while that doesn't you know, doesn't mean that they're
going to be around forever, I think by having kind
of that strong structure and kind of expectations on both ends,
that does that. That's one thing that does help. Another
another resource that we kind of bring to the table
(18:37):
is we have a close partnership with another nonprofit called
NGT Neighborhood Gardens Trust. And what NGT does is they
work with gardens to actually secure the land. So a
lot of community gardens, you know that may have started
decades ago, started on vacant line ends well, as it
(19:01):
turns out, the vacant lands may be vacant, but they're
actually owned by somebody. They may have just got you know,
they may have been a tax lean against the property
and it's kind of in limbo. Well you know, once
the taxes get paid, then you know, lots of parts
of the city and I'm sure the same as true
in Cincinnati is they're starting to develop a lot of
(19:22):
these lands, so it's put a lot of these community
gardens at risks. So what NGT does is they come
in and they work with the community garden to get
buy the land. So they either do it through complex
land swamps or they buy it you know, outright with
(19:46):
cash or through a number of different means. And I
think they've secured about seventy gardens so that they and
then they stay on also as a supporting partner, so
T you know, it acquires the land. The land is
held in a in a land trust, their own trust,
(20:08):
so they kind of they own the land, but then
they stay on to help these gardens with uh with
needs as well. I just went to an NGT PHS
garden in Germantown, and this garden was on like a
lot of them, on a vacant, abandoned land. And you
(20:31):
know a lot of these lands, they just you know,
pile the rubbish or the debris into the basement, put
soil on top. This one was on a slope and
it was really difficult for especially the elder elderly gardeners
to get around. So they hired a local garden design
(20:52):
and installation business called Apiary Studios, who's exhibited at the
Flower Show the last five years and they're they're also
based in german Town, and they designed the garden where
they would actually they actually terraced the garden into three terraces.
At the bottom of each terrace, running along the slope
was a pathway. They put in water, they did they
(21:16):
put in a pavilion, they put in a secured storage shed.
So this and one of the prerequisites of this garden
is they didn't want to miss a gardening season, so
they did all this work over last winter and it
was transformational to its garden. And this is the garden
that's been around for probably forty years, and some of
(21:37):
the members have been there for probably the whole forty years.
So it was a great resource that so MGT did
both you know, securing the land, but then they also
did a fundraising campaign to support this garden transformation.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Very cool. We got.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
You know, one thing that's interesting to me listening to
Andrew talking. We talk about we throw the word community
garden out just sort of as a catch all for
all the green spaces.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
That we're all involved in.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
I think most people think urban agg when they hear
community vegetables produce food gardens. That is a that's a
very small component what the Zoo is doing with our
green spaces. It is a component tied to our urban
learning gardens. But we're also we're you know, we have
other community gardens where we're in the medical space and
(22:31):
the health and wellness space and school gardens, right and
we kind of say community garden just as a as
a catch all, but every gardens a little different.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
For us.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I've always felt like the component of beauty is so
important because you're putting this these things in neighborhoods where
people live, and if it looks like a shantytown with
sticks and wires and nothing but vegetables and things, it
doesn't have the appeal that it does if it more
designed and has beautiful plants incorporated into it.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
I mean, community pride starts with that respect and that
that visual that that on inspiring landscape. So when you
drive by and something's clean and kept up, that's that's
the start of community pride, right and just one.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think of Rockdale a lot of times where you
know that you can put that garden largely in any neighborhood,
wealthy or not, and people would be proud of it.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And I think that's an important thing. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
I mean, there's nothing more beautiful than a well kept
green space, and there's nothing more you know, distraught than
a poorly kept green space. And you know, we're all
trying to do the right thing, and there's so much
good intention behind all this stuff. But I mean, it
can it can get off the rails pretty quickly if
you're not set up. I mean, we've learned it the
hard way a few times, and it's we're still continuing
(23:55):
with the program to to figure each garden out. Every
garden is different, every site is different, every community champion
is different, and what they can contribute, and like what
Andrew was saying about, you know, the commitments that the
communities have to make on their side. A lot of
the times we're in spaces with like schools and stuff,
they frankly they can't really commit anything because they're so
(24:19):
It's hard enough to be a public school teacher or principal,
just like getting by and making sure your students.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Are tend to move on.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, yeah, Andrew, we have two or three minutes. Anything
you want to add before we move on to a break.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, sure. You know, like you guys said, you know,
these community gardens can be different things. Most of our
community gardens are gardens for the community to grow vegetables.
But we do have a site north of the city
called Northtown Farm Park that is a bit more like
urban agg we're doing kind of mass production of food
(24:58):
to support food banks, and then we have kind of
a veggie RX component where we're working with a local
healthcare provider to actually prescribe vegetables and then track that
data over time. When I was at Chicago Botanic Ire
and they have another program that's called that Windy City Harvest,
(25:19):
which is more urban ag and they also have a
Veggie RX program. And so the idea is that if
you prescribe, maybe in addition to some medications, some vegetables,
that hopefully over time the vegetables, you know, that you
don't need the medications, that you have such a healthy
(25:40):
diet that maybe a lot of the needs for various
medications goes away. So that's kind of a neat kind
of byproduct of community gardens.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Very very cool.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
This is all inspiring stuff, and I hope people have been,
you know, enjoying this conversation and there are you know,
community gardens are important in a lot of these communities,
any community, honestly, and if you're listening and you're a
gardener and you have time on your hands, consider being
a volunteer to help community gardens out. There are a
(26:18):
lot of organizations probably in almost any city that are
running community gardens and you can join in and you know,
it's always fun working with the organization the other gardeners.
You can learn so much and and feel really good about,
you know, the time that you give back to the community. So, Andrew,
(26:41):
we're going to wrap this segment up and move on
after the break to leaving gardens. Do you want to
stick around with us to talk about the emotions of
when when you need to move to away from your garden?
That's very good, okay, and we welcome calls too if
you've left the garden, had emotions about it, stories, anecdotes
(27:03):
we'd like to hear on. Our number is eight hundred
and eighty two three eighty two fifty five. You're listening
to Let's Garden with Scott Berlin and we'll be back
in just a few minutes. You're listening to That's Garden
with me, Scott Berlin. I'm here with Jerome Stanger from
Cincinna Potanical Gardinan Zoo and Paul Culozar, also from the
Sin San Potanical Gardener Zoo. It's an all Zoo review today,
except we have Andrew Bunting on the line from the
(27:25):
Pennsylvania Horticulture Society and we're going to transition now to
moving from away from your garden. This is pretty much
going to happen to everybody at some point. We all
think about it. Jerome is going through it right now.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, this is you didn't know this, but this is
basically a therapy session for.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Me, and which now that we know that we're charging
you money.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
So yeah, I kind of wanted to talk about this
because I'm going through right now. My home is on
the market and I am hashtag blessed to be moving
into a fully landscape designed and executed urban space that
my partner, Trudy Lorenz, who is a habitat restorationist, we'll say,
(28:10):
landscape designer with her own business in northern Kentucky called
Wild Gardens, so that that garden is good, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
She's gonna let you plant anything.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Actually, that's a funny story. I planted four perennials in
the front garden, which is probably about eight feet by
twenty feet postage stamp, and I did it before she
woke up, and she came out and was looking through
the window drinking her coffee like what are you doing
out there?
Speaker 4 (28:39):
And I'm like, I'm sorry, I should have told.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
You, bit take on the coffee.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, it's all good now. I had to, but I
had to work it.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
So but yeah, I'm leaving.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
A garden that my first home. It was eight years
of sweat and love.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
And relax and coming to terms with that is really
difficult for me. I'm not taking any plants with me
to this space. The garden is kind of My relationship
with the garden is over. It's going to become somebody
else's relationship. And what they'll do with the space I
(29:20):
have no say over, and I've kind of had to
I'm severing the cord right now, and I just wanted
to kind of talk about it.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Obviously, there's the kind of like.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Financial weirdness about like gardens and do they raise the
value of your home or lower the value of your home.
I'm kind of interested in that on a larger extent,
but kind of for me right now, I'm more just
interested in hearing you guys talk about like the metaphysical
relationship that you have with your space when you're in
(29:52):
it and cultivating something and all of your perspiration dropping
into that soil and bearing animals in that space and
living in that space and then leaving it. I mean,
I'm feeling really really sad.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Of course. Yeah, Andrew, go ahead, I heard you starting
to talk.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, I So. For a long time I worked
at the Scott Arboretam at Schwarzsmore College, which Scott referenced
in two thoy fifteen. I got kind of head hunted,
I guess, by the Chicago Botanic Garden, and I really was.
I had no I wasn't thinking about moving at all.
(30:35):
But you know, the more I thought about it, it
was at a time in my career where it was
like either now or never to make like a significant
career move. So and it was a significant kind of
career advancement. And you know, Chicago Botanic Garden is an
incredible international institution. So I did it so I could reconcile,
(30:58):
like leaving my friends of thirty years and even leaving
my sistern mother, who at the time both lived on
the East Coast, like I could reconcile all of that,
But when it came to the Garden, like I couldn't,
you know, I think, to Deron's point, I just couldn't
couldn't get my head around it. So I don't know
(31:22):
if this was a good financial decision or not. Probably not.
I decided to keep my house in Swarthmore, moved to Chicago,
rented an apartment, so I was renting and had, you know,
still a mortgage on the house here. I did have
a gardener move in from the Scottter Bretam But it
(31:44):
wasn't really his job to maintain my garden. He did
some pots and vegetable gardening and stuff like that. So
you know, I mean, the way it worked out is
I ultimately came back. That was not my plan to
cut to come back, but I did. But when I
did come back, you know, probably five plus years later,
(32:07):
even though I was checking out the garden from time
to time, it was pretty pretty compromised in a lot
of a lot of different ways. Shrums had died and
certain areas and just kind of pete petered out. So
now I've a the last five years now back in
the house, kind of bringing the garden back to where
where I would like it to be. Yeah, but to
(32:27):
your point, I couldn't. I couldn't, Like I could reconcile everything,
but I couldn't reconcile giving out my garden. Now, for
a lot of people, that's just not a possible scenario.
We just went through this with my mom. So my
mom passed away about a year and a half ago.
She lived in New Jersey, had a great little home garden,
(32:51):
and you know, you know, we were selling the house
and it was the same thing where it's like, you know,
she for twenty years in retirement put a lot of
energy into this beautiful little garden that really made her
house stand apart. You know, maybe the the what kind
of helped emotionally as we did have you know, I
(33:14):
don't know where this woman came from, but this young
woman who was our real estate agent, she loved the garden.
She made little boats for the opening, She made little
bouquets from the garden that she came out to. Anybody
that came to the opening like that really became like
her all kind of one of the ways she kind
(33:36):
of promoted and sold the house. So that was kind
of a nice Exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
When I left my first home in I was just
really getting in the gardening at the time and and
transitioning away from vegetable gardens into ornamental gardening. So it
was emotionally a little bit easier, and it was a
home that we moved to that I always admired and
really wanted. But I lost my point, you know, Oh,
(34:06):
I remember so one thing I did, trying to be
the control freak and dictating what the garden would be
into the future. I wrote a description out of every
garden bed, what the purpose was, what the plants are,
in the hopes that someone would pick that up and go, hey,
this is pretty cool. Maybe I'll carry it on. Also,
(34:27):
when I did landscaping, really more gardening on my own,
I just worked by myself. I didn't have helpers or anything,
so mostly what I did were small gardens. I would
say a good sixty percent of my customers were older
people who had moved away from their gardens and had
(34:47):
moved to like a townhouse or a freestanding condo, and
you know.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
They thought they would just be able to give it up.
They were tired of it. You know.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Part of the reason they were moving is because they
couldn't do the work anymore. But every single one of
them missed it terribly, and they hired me to recreate
on the little pieces of ground that they had, something resembling,
you know, putting their favorite plants back in, that kind
of thing. So we that's time for a break. We
(35:17):
will carry on this conversation some more, because it's a
it's a good one. A little downer, a little downer
on a Saturday morning sometimes, but there's always a silver
lining everything.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
I think Andrew returned to his garden and the.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, how about that.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
That's very very cool, and you know other people get
to do that as well. So if you have stories
about moving from your garden, give us a call eight
hundred and eighty two three eighty two fifty five. A
reminder you're listening to That's Garden with Scott Berline. All
the podcasts can be found wherever podcasts are sourced. If
you're interested, you can read my writing on gardenerant dot
com or the hort Magazine the columns that I do
(35:55):
at hortmag dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
We'll be back in just a couple of minutes.
I'm Scott Berlin.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berlin and here
with Jerome Stanger and Paul Calls are both from the
Cincinnai Zoo and Potanical Garden. Thank you guys for being here.
I messed it up, yep, I go back and forth
Cincinnai Botanical Garden and Zoo. More importantly, we have Andrew
Bunting on the line now. Andrew's a longtime friend. He
is now working at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, but he's
(00:25):
been at all of my favorite places, Scott Arboretam, Chicago Botanic,
Atlanta Botanic, and a lot more. His his resume is
unbelievable and he's here with us right now.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Andrew, how are you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm good, Scott. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, it's great to have you here. You currently what's
your title with the PHS right now?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's a vice President of Horticulture.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh okay, And a lot of people know the PHS
for their what do you call gold metal plants?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
That all right?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
We have the governmental plant program a lot of people
and that was especially for the Philadelphia Flowers Show.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Oh right, yeah that too.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Also that but we brought you on because we have
Jerome here, who at the Cincinnai Botanical Gardens who's got
it right this time, does a lot with our community gardens,
and you do a lot with the phs's community gardens,
and I thought it would be a great conversation to
have between mostly between the two of you, to talk
(01:32):
about what you're doing, what we're doing, and do you
want to encourage people to call if they want to
talk about community gardens. Our numbers eight hundred and eighty
three eighty two fifty five. So Andrew, first off, why
don't you tell us a little a bit about the
programs that you do offer.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Sure, So, a lot of the work we do do
at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, I'll just call it PHS
is community based, and we have a whole divisi vision
called Healthy Neighborhoods and that has four really five, I
guess major programmatic ardens. One is a workforce development program
(02:12):
cleaning and greening a vacant lets, stormwater solutions that we
run through the Philadelphia Water Department, our street tree programs,
and then our community gardens program, which is probably one
of our longest running community based programs, and just kind
of in a nutshell. The way that program works is
(02:33):
we're there to provide about two hundred partner community gardens
with resources. So it could either be teaching them how
to grow certain crops, or maybe advocacy or helping them
with governance issues, or supplying them with salt a or
composts or landscape timbers or tools. We have a tool library,
(02:57):
and then we also distribute a seedlings to those partner
gardens every year.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That sounds fantastic. We do a lot of work like
that too, supporting basically supporting community gardens and doing the
follow up once a garden is established, which is so
important to stay behind it and keep it going because
you know, you see a lot of gardens that they
get built, they're beautiful, and then nobody really you know,
(03:27):
owns it after that.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's key, is that they have the
supports that they can stay around, hopefully and in perpetuity. Otherwise,
you know, I think a lot of it maybe does
sometimes come down to governance. They don't have the proper
kind of committees or board support, so you know, there's
(03:53):
no kind of set standards or expectations for how the
people that are gardening there should should conduct themselves. So
you know, having that and then you know, so PHS
is there always is kind of whatever support almost whatever
support they need, we can help them. And we also
(04:15):
have some we can at times provide some financial support.
We have with our longtime CEO, Jane Pepper retired, they
they raise money and her honor and set up an
endowmical the Legacy Landscapes Endowment, and that supports a lot
(04:39):
of our big public gardens in the city, but it
also supports a number of what we call keystone community gardens.
These are like the most significant community gardens. So there
is some some money in there. So if they need,
like say to install you know, faucets, or maybe they
(05:02):
meet to put in new pathways or you know, maybe
some sort of structure so they have shade and can
meet or tool set or whatever the case might be,
so we can we don't you know, that's not endless,
but that is a resource as well.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
And there are some Hey Andrew, this is Jerome talking.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
By the way, there there are so many overlaps with
what PHS is doing. We're kind of doing things on
a smaller scale, somewhat independently. At the Cincinnatzoo and Botanical
Garden are our key you know, funder partner for these
community projects that we're doing is the Cincinnati Reds Community
(05:46):
Fund and Charlie Frank and the Reds Community Fund, which
started in like two thousand and six when they would
go into the would pick a community every year and
fix up a ball field and some of the recreational
facilities in a certain community. We started adding a green
(06:06):
space landscaping component. We joined them in twenty thirteen to
kind of bring a tree planting element to these projects
and really since then, every year it's.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Grown and.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Really post COVID, I would say we kind of started
a new phase. There was a lot of like good
will built up, and we took a year off during
COVID for the project, and so we came into Avondale,
which is home of the zoo, and we were able
to basically renovate an empty two acre field into maybe
(06:44):
the most plant diverse giant school garden. We call them
urban learning gardens. Those are kind of like our keystone
gardens that we focus on now every year with the
Reds Community Fund. They're usually tied to a Cincinnati public school,
but you know that you're talking about the that endowment.
(07:05):
You've got to have that sort of like source funding.
And we're very fortunate to be paired with the Cincinnati
Reds and also other kind of like key Cincinnati institutions
like Procter and Gamble and Ge and Kroger and some
of these other large institutions to all come together and
(07:26):
make a big difference in these communities year to year.
And it's really exciting because internally we have been kind of,
you know, as we react to the growing green space
push in Cincinnati, we've been building out our own community
Gardens team within our department.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
That's just devoted to those very.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Historically challenging issues of maintaining gardens after they're installed, and
facilitating community champions and volunteer groups, and working with the schools,
not so much defining curriculums or anything for the teachers,
but helping people to immerse themselves in these spaces, because
(08:10):
sometimes I can take a little while for communities to
become comfortable and familiar.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
With their green space.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Andrew looking forward to your response to that, but we
do need to take a break, so we'll be back
after a few minutes. You're listening to let's garden with
Scott Berlin will continue this conversation just a few minutes.
Paul Kolazar and Jerome Stanger and Andrew Bunting from the
Pennsylvania Horticulture Society on the line. And Andrew, what Jerome
(08:41):
just said, what's your response to that? It seems like
you guys are probably the absolute leaders in this world
of community gardens, and you're probably two or three steps
ahead of us.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, maybe, I mean that might be true, but I've
been to Ammondale. You guys took me there one time
when I either was lecturing there or just visiting for
one of your three awesome symposia. And what I liked
about your model is that it includes a lot of things.
(09:16):
So it has the community garden aspect, It has beautiful gardens,
so it's almost like if you could take a botanic
garden and a community garden and hybridize the two. And
then the Avondale site, as I remember it, you're also
growing plants there, So there's kind of the economic impact aspect.
(09:41):
And you know, for our programs, we have what we
call them impact priorities, So these are every program has
to support one of these four impact priorities, and I
think they kind of align with what you're trying to
do as well. So the impact prior is are expanding
(10:01):
economic opportunity, building meaningful social connections, increasing access to fresh food,
and creating healthy living environments. And your program does all
four of those. And I like that. It's your programs
like our programs are. They're replicable. So you could take
(10:23):
kind of the model like you've done it Avondale, and
you could scale it up, like you could make that
garden ten times as big, or you could scale it
down and make it a quarter the size. So I
like that aspect of programs. And a lot of our programs,
like our Vac a Lot program, we get a lot
(10:44):
of people that want to come and see it and
they want to maybe use it in their own town
or city. And I feel like your program, you know,
could be replicated and you know, cities all over Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, wherever,
you know, not it not even locally, but you know,
your model could be used in you know, in Tokyo
(11:07):
or wherever. So I like that aspect of it also.
And the one I went to Avondale, I just thought
was so dynamic, you know, it had all those different components.
I think it had a pollinator garden as well. And
I know I think Jerome or somebody was there the
day I was there and they're they're planting street trees
(11:29):
out on the street, and it was like, right, is
right next to a school, so it has the school
component as well. So I think is as many you know,
kind of ideas that you can pull pull into these
gardens to make them even more dynamic. You know, it
(11:51):
really becomes such an asset for the community and a
lot of a lot of our community work, and I
know this is true for you guys as well. Is
in parts of the city that need help and where
we do most of our work are in low income
(12:11):
neighborhoods that have all sorts of equity issues, including green
equity issues. So they have low low canopy coverage from
street trees, they have low access to parks, they have
low access to fresh fruit, food, there's all sorts of food,
(12:33):
foodst sovereignty issues. So that's where that's where we really
target our work, and most of our work it is
in Philadelphia, but we do do we have expanded beyond Philadelphia,
especially with our trees program.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, absolutely, and Another another thing I think that makes
these these green spaces thrive is the boots on the
ground horticultural commitment that we give to the sites, as
does PHS right, because if we want perpetuity and longevity
(13:13):
in these spaces, there has to be not just facilitation,
but actual, like in the garden help with these places
to keep them going. I think it's it's a really
nice idea to, you know, assume that the community is
going to figure it out and come together and keep
(13:37):
the spaces evolving, but there has to be that continued
support and guidance, and those are the things that are
the hardest of fund fund and it's just really awesome
what PHS is doing, what the Zoo's doing, just in
order to ensure that these places keep thriving.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
One thing I like about the Vandale Garden, which is
the urban learning learning garden at Rockdale Academy is is
right there for the kids. And I think about how
many gardeners and horticulturists I know who became horticulturists because
of some exposure to gardens when they were kids. How
(14:19):
many times do you hear, oh, my grandmother was a gardener,
my dad was, or whatever, and that led to this
lifelong love of plants and getting this exposure, especially in
urban areas, to children, you know, to just at least
give them the idea that this world exists and that
the beauty is possible and growing your own food is possible.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So so important.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, and we installed that garden in twenty twenty one.
So the kids were that were in first grade when
the garden went in are in sixth grade now and
they've grown up with this garden and they will be
happy to lead you on a tour around it. Show
you are all always fun. The fruit, the fruiting berries
are at different times of year. They'll take you to
you their favorite parts of the garden where they like
(15:05):
to spend the most time. So it's really cool to
start seeing the payoff. You see these kids growing up
with a natural space right right outside their school.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
Andrew, this is Paula. I have a question for you.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
The follow up to you know, you we put a
lot of effort into the development of these gardens and
they're really popular, like you know on the front end, Uh.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
What does PHS do? How do they set them up
for continued success?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yeah, So there's a couple of different ways we do that.
So we have a program called City Harvest. So we
ask our partner gardens to commit to being part of
this City Harvest program, and by by doing so, they
(16:01):
they commit to a couple of different things. They get
all the resources by committing to be a City Harvest garden.
So I mentioned we do. We distribute seedling vegetables to
them each year. We actually do it in four different seasons,
so we do an early spring, a spring, a late summer,
(16:23):
and then like a fall distribution, we distribute three hundred
thousand seed lanes that we grow at what we call
four different green resource centers.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, we've got a minute until our break, so we
continue with your thought. I'll tell you what, Andrew, We'll
just go ahead to break. Just a reminder you're listening
to Let's Garden. Scott Perline our number if you want
to call in as eight hundred eight two three eighty
(17:00):
two fifty five were welcome your calls. Podcasts are all
available on at any source any of your favorite sources
for podcasts. The Facebook page in the Garden is running
right now with Ron Rothis and friends.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
We'll be back in just a couple of minutes. You
are there.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
This is Let's Garden with Scott Berline, and I've got
Jerome Stanger from the Cincinni Potanical Gardener Zoo and Paul
Culozar with me, and on the line we have Andrew
Bunting from the Pennsylvania Horticulture Society. We're talking for another
segment about community gardens and where were we when we
left off.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Remember we were talking about what PHS can do to
kind of help support these community gardens.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
Right right, you were you were talking about what the
community garden folks had to commit to and right, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's called city harvest and so they they commit to
that and then they get this lanes and you know,
technical support and you know kind of all the support
of PHS. But what they what they give us is
or what they commit to, is they have to dedicate
ten percent of their harvest to go into a food bank.
(18:17):
So while that doesn't you know, doesn't mean that they're
going to be around forever, I think by having kind
of that strong structure and kind of expectations on both ends,
that does that. That's one thing that does help. Another
another resource that we kind of bring to the table
(18:37):
is we have a close partnership with another nonprofit called
NGT Neighborhood Gardens Trust. And what NGT does is they
work with gardens to actually secure the land. So a
lot of community gardens, you know that may have started
decades ago, started on vacant line ends well, as it
(19:01):
turns out, the vacant lands may be vacant, but they're
actually owned by somebody. They may have just got you know,
they may have been a tax lean against the property
and it's kind of in limbo. Well you know, once
the taxes get paid, then you know, lots of parts
of the city and I'm sure the same as true
in Cincinnati is they're starting to develop a lot of
(19:22):
these lands, so it's put a lot of these community
gardens at risks. So what NGT does is they come
in and they work with the community garden to get
buy the land. So they either do it through complex
land swamps or they buy it you know, outright with
(19:46):
cash or through a number of different means. And I
think they've secured about seventy gardens so that they and
then they stay on also as a supporting partner, so
T you know, it acquires the land. The land is
held in a in a land trust, their own trust,
(20:08):
so they kind of they own the land, but then
they stay on to help these gardens with uh with
needs as well. I just went to an NGT PHS
garden in Germantown, and this garden was on like a
lot of them, on a vacant, abandoned land. And you
(20:31):
know a lot of these lands, they just you know,
pile the rubbish or the debris into the basement, put
soil on top. This one was on a slope and
it was really difficult for especially the elder elderly gardeners
to get around. So they hired a local garden design
(20:52):
and installation business called Apiary Studios, who's exhibited at the
Flower Show the last five years and they're they're also
based in german Town, and they designed the garden where
they would actually they actually terraced the garden into three terraces.
At the bottom of each terrace, running along the slope
was a pathway. They put in water, they did they
(21:16):
put in a pavilion, they put in a secured storage shed.
So this and one of the prerequisites of this garden
is they didn't want to miss a gardening season, so
they did all this work over last winter and it
was transformational to its garden. And this is the garden
that's been around for probably forty years, and some of
(21:37):
the members have been there for probably the whole forty years.
So it was a great resource that so MGT did
both you know, securing the land, but then they also
did a fundraising campaign to support this garden transformation.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Very cool. We got.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
You know, one thing that's interesting to me listening to
Andrew talking. We talk about we throw the word community
garden out just sort of as a catch all for
all the green spaces.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
That we're all involved in.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
I think most people think urban agg when they hear
community vegetables produce food gardens. That is a that's a
very small component what the Zoo is doing with our
green spaces. It is a component tied to our urban
learning gardens. But we're also we're you know, we have
other community gardens where we're in the medical space and
(22:31):
the health and wellness space and school gardens, right and
we kind of say community garden just as a as
a catch all, but every gardens a little different.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
For us.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I've always felt like the component of beauty is so
important because you're putting this these things in neighborhoods where
people live, and if it looks like a shantytown with
sticks and wires and nothing but vegetables and things, it
doesn't have the appeal that it does if it more
designed and has beautiful plants incorporated into it.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
I mean, community pride starts with that respect and that
that visual that that on inspiring landscape. So when you
drive by and something's clean and kept up, that's that's
the start of community pride, right and just one.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think of Rockdale a lot of times where you
know that you can put that garden largely in any neighborhood,
wealthy or not, and people would be proud of it.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And I think that's an important thing. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
I mean, there's nothing more beautiful than a well kept
green space, and there's nothing more you know, distraught than
a poorly kept green space. And you know, we're all
trying to do the right thing, and there's so much
good intention behind all this stuff. But I mean, it
can it can get off the rails pretty quickly if
you're not set up. I mean, we've learned it the
hard way a few times, and it's we're still continuing
(23:55):
with the program to to figure each garden out. Every
garden is different, every site is different, every community champion
is different, and what they can contribute, and like what
Andrew was saying about, you know, the commitments that the
communities have to make on their side. A lot of
the times we're in spaces with like schools and stuff,
they frankly they can't really commit anything because they're so
(24:19):
It's hard enough to be a public school teacher or principal,
just like getting by and making sure your students.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Are tend to move on.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, yeah, Andrew, we have two or three minutes. Anything
you want to add before we move on to a break.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, sure. You know, like you guys said, you know,
these community gardens can be different things. Most of our
community gardens are gardens for the community to grow vegetables.
But we do have a site north of the city
called Northtown Farm Park that is a bit more like
urban agg we're doing kind of mass production of food
(24:58):
to support food banks, and then we have kind of
a veggie RX component where we're working with a local
healthcare provider to actually prescribe vegetables and then track that
data over time. When I was at Chicago Botanic Ire
and they have another program that's called that Windy City Harvest,
(25:19):
which is more urban ag and they also have a
Veggie RX program. And so the idea is that if
you prescribe, maybe in addition to some medications, some vegetables,
that hopefully over time the vegetables, you know, that you
don't need the medications, that you have such a healthy
(25:40):
diet that maybe a lot of the needs for various
medications goes away. So that's kind of a neat kind
of byproduct of community gardens.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Very very cool.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
This is all inspiring stuff, and I hope people have been,
you know, enjoying this conversation and there are you know,
community gardens are important in a lot of these communities,
any community, honestly, and if you're listening and you're a
gardener and you have time on your hands, consider being
a volunteer to help community gardens out. There are a
(26:18):
lot of organizations probably in almost any city that are
running community gardens and you can join in and you know,
it's always fun working with the organization the other gardeners.
You can learn so much and and feel really good about,
you know, the time that you give back to the community. So, Andrew,
(26:41):
we're going to wrap this segment up and move on
after the break to leaving gardens. Do you want to
stick around with us to talk about the emotions of
when when you need to move to away from your garden?
That's very good, okay, and we welcome calls too if
you've left the garden, had emotions about it, stories, anecdotes
(27:03):
we'd like to hear on. Our number is eight hundred
and eighty two three eighty two fifty five. You're listening
to Let's Garden with Scott Berlin and we'll be back
in just a few minutes. You're listening to That's Garden
with me, Scott Berlin. I'm here with Jerome Stanger from
Cincinna Potanical Gardinan Zoo and Paul Culozar, also from the
Sin San Potanical Gardener Zoo. It's an all Zoo review today,
except we have Andrew Bunting on the line from the
(27:25):
Pennsylvania Horticulture Society and we're going to transition now to
moving from away from your garden. This is pretty much
going to happen to everybody at some point. We all
think about it. Jerome is going through it right now.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, this is you didn't know this, but this is
basically a therapy session for.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Me, and which now that we know that we're charging
you money.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
So yeah, I kind of wanted to talk about this
because I'm going through right now. My home is on
the market and I am hashtag blessed to be moving
into a fully landscape designed and executed urban space that
my partner, Trudy Lorenz, who is a habitat restorationist, we'll say,
(28:10):
landscape designer with her own business in northern Kentucky called
Wild Gardens, so that that garden is good, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
She's gonna let you plant anything.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Actually, that's a funny story. I planted four perennials in
the front garden, which is probably about eight feet by
twenty feet postage stamp, and I did it before she
woke up, and she came out and was looking through
the window drinking her coffee like what are you doing
out there?
Speaker 4 (28:39):
And I'm like, I'm sorry, I should have told.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
You, bit take on the coffee.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, it's all good now. I had to, but I
had to work it.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
So but yeah, I'm leaving.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
A garden that my first home. It was eight years
of sweat and love.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
And relax and coming to terms with that is really
difficult for me. I'm not taking any plants with me
to this space. The garden is kind of My relationship
with the garden is over. It's going to become somebody
else's relationship. And what they'll do with the space I
(29:20):
have no say over, and I've kind of had to
I'm severing the cord right now, and I just wanted
to kind of talk about it.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Obviously, there's the kind of like.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Financial weirdness about like gardens and do they raise the
value of your home or lower the value of your home.
I'm kind of interested in that on a larger extent,
but kind of for me right now, I'm more just
interested in hearing you guys talk about like the metaphysical
relationship that you have with your space when you're in
(29:52):
it and cultivating something and all of your perspiration dropping
into that soil and bearing animals in that space and
living in that space and then leaving it. I mean,
I'm feeling really really sad.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Of course. Yeah, Andrew, go ahead, I heard you starting
to talk.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, I So. For a long time I worked
at the Scott Arboretam at Schwarzsmore College, which Scott referenced
in two thoy fifteen. I got kind of head hunted,
I guess, by the Chicago Botanic Garden, and I really was.
I had no I wasn't thinking about moving at all.
(30:35):
But you know, the more I thought about it, it
was at a time in my career where it was
like either now or never to make like a significant
career move. So and it was a significant kind of
career advancement. And you know, Chicago Botanic Garden is an
incredible international institution. So I did it so I could reconcile,
(30:58):
like leaving my friends of thirty years and even leaving
my sistern mother, who at the time both lived on
the East Coast, like I could reconcile all of that,
But when it came to the Garden, like I couldn't,
you know, I think, to Deron's point, I just couldn't
couldn't get my head around it. So I don't know
(31:22):
if this was a good financial decision or not. Probably not.
I decided to keep my house in Swarthmore, moved to Chicago,
rented an apartment, so I was renting and had, you know,
still a mortgage on the house here. I did have
a gardener move in from the Scottter Bretam But it
(31:44):
wasn't really his job to maintain my garden. He did
some pots and vegetable gardening and stuff like that. So
you know, I mean, the way it worked out is
I ultimately came back. That was not my plan to
cut to come back, but I did. But when I
did come back, you know, probably five plus years later,
(32:07):
even though I was checking out the garden from time
to time, it was pretty pretty compromised in a lot
of a lot of different ways. Shrums had died and
certain areas and just kind of pete petered out. So
now I've a the last five years now back in
the house, kind of bringing the garden back to where
where I would like it to be. Yeah, but to
(32:27):
your point, I couldn't. I couldn't, Like I could reconcile everything,
but I couldn't reconcile giving out my garden. Now, for
a lot of people, that's just not a possible scenario.
We just went through this with my mom. So my
mom passed away about a year and a half ago.
She lived in New Jersey, had a great little home garden,
(32:51):
and you know, you know, we were selling the house
and it was the same thing where it's like, you know,
she for twenty years in retirement put a lot of
energy into this beautiful little garden that really made her
house stand apart. You know, maybe the the what kind
of helped emotionally as we did have you know, I
(33:14):
don't know where this woman came from, but this young
woman who was our real estate agent, she loved the garden.
She made little boats for the opening, She made little
bouquets from the garden that she came out to. Anybody
that came to the opening like that really became like
her all kind of one of the ways she kind
(33:36):
of promoted and sold the house. So that was kind
of a nice Exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
When I left my first home in I was just
really getting in the gardening at the time and and
transitioning away from vegetable gardens into ornamental gardening. So it
was emotionally a little bit easier, and it was a
home that we moved to that I always admired and
really wanted. But I lost my point, you know, Oh,
(34:06):
I remember so one thing I did, trying to be
the control freak and dictating what the garden would be
into the future. I wrote a description out of every
garden bed, what the purpose was, what the plants are,
in the hopes that someone would pick that up and go, hey,
this is pretty cool. Maybe I'll carry it on. Also,
(34:27):
when I did landscaping, really more gardening on my own,
I just worked by myself. I didn't have helpers or anything,
so mostly what I did were small gardens. I would
say a good sixty percent of my customers were older
people who had moved away from their gardens and had
(34:47):
moved to like a townhouse or a freestanding condo, and
you know.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
They thought they would just be able to give it up.
They were tired of it. You know.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Part of the reason they were moving is because they
couldn't do the work anymore. But every single one of
them missed it terribly, and they hired me to recreate
on the little pieces of ground that they had, something resembling,
you know, putting their favorite plants back in, that kind
of thing. So we that's time for a break. We
(35:17):
will carry on this conversation some more, because it's a
it's a good one. A little downer, a little downer
on a Saturday morning sometimes, but there's always a silver
lining everything.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
I think Andrew returned to his garden and the.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, how about that.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
That's very very cool, and you know other people get
to do that as well. So if you have stories
about moving from your garden, give us a call eight
hundred and eighty two three eighty two fifty five. A
reminder you're listening to That's Garden with Scott Berline. All
the podcasts can be found wherever podcasts are sourced. If
you're interested, you can read my writing on gardenerant dot
com or the hort Magazine the columns that I do
(35:55):
at hortmag dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
We'll be back in just a couple of minutes.
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