07-14-25 KOA Sports Hour 2 with Rick Lewis

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Final game of the twenty twenty four season was a
pretty brutal loss to the Buffalo Bills. Welcome back Dave Logan,
Ryan Numbers, and Rick Lewis and studio. We'll have James
Palmer joining us at four point thirty. Have all sorts
of NFL and national questions, including why some of the
draft picks have still not signed.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
We'll ask him that coming up here in just a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
But I was thinking about this today because we I
think as a Broncos fan base, and I'll speak for myself,
but I'll kind of speak in generalities. I think we
were just excited to be there. We were happy the
Broncos made it to the postseason, finally broke that streak,
had a winning season. It was all good, no matter

(00:39):
what happened against Buffalo, you were good.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
But then you think about the fact is.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
That the way they lost and how far apart the
Broncos and the Buffalo Bills looked in that specific game,
And I started to think about, well, could there potentially
be an impact we're not discussing on the upcoming season
when teams lose that bad in the postseason, can there
be a hangover when it comes to the next year.

(01:05):
So I guess, Dave, would you think that the loss
will have any impact whatsoever, any bearing in a negative way,
could be positive way, but in a negative way for
the Broncos this upcoming year.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
No, I don't think so, because it happened last year,
and I mean, guys remember it. Guys that are back,
I mean they'll be I'm just taking a guess. It'll
probably be fifteen to eighteen new faces that weren't here
last year. But the guys that play in that game
will certainly remember it. And when the Broncos, or if

(01:37):
the Broncos or if and win the Broncos, you know,
finish the regular season in our playoff bound maybe maybe
Sean Payton mentions you know last year, maybe just to.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Help focus the team.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
I don't know, But I just don't think from year
to year, other than it being motivation for them a
little bit as they get ready for the season, I
just don't think what happened last year impacts them, certainly,
not negatively.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
I think it impacts them in a positive way.

Speaker 5 (02:11):
Actually, And nobody expected the Broncos to number one, have
a winning season, number two go to the postseason, and
they did. I think it gives them. It should give
them confidence that we're building something. This is real, this
is legit. They've got their quarterback. They went to the
postseason with a rookie quarterback, so going into this year,

(02:33):
to me, that gives them. It should give them a
whole lot more confidence, like, yes, we're on track, We're
only going to be better this year, and I can't
wait till we go back to the postseason, get another
chance to play in the postseason against one of the
best teams in the AFC.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
So for me, the hangover is a good thing.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, you know, maybe're right, maybe that's a little bit
more of motivational for them is to say, okay, well
this is the measuring stick we just saw with the
Buffalo Bills, who are a team that are perennially there
there in the postseason. They're in a championship window with
their quarterback who's the reigning MVP, So maybe there's a
little sense of that.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I guess they thought about it also in terms of
the defense too.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
So my initial was the offense, but I'm on the
defensive side of the ball, who's absolutely gashed, especially in
the second half, versus.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
The run, versus the past me, it all fell apart.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Do you think that there's a reasoning for a team
that was maybe the best defensive, certainly on several statistical categories,
including sacks, would they come into the season thinking, boy,
we kind of got exposed against Buffalo.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, I mean, I think I think players remember. I
mean players remember certain plays, certain series, certain quarters has games,
and so I think any any of the Broncos players,
any of the Broncos defensive players that are back this year, well,
certainly if if you ask them now, they might not
want to talk about it, but they remember the Buffalo game.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
They remember down the.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Stretch, they remember the Cincinnati game, they remember the Charger
game in LA. There were plenty of good things for
this Broncos defense last year. They didn't they didn't close
in the way that I think they wanted to or
that they were capable of.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
But again I get I go back to.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
The offense being culpable also to a certain degree.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
I mean in the losses.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
When you think about it, the Broncos lose that game
in Kansas City with a thirty five yard field goal
being blocked. They didn't do enough on offense either. In
the second half the Broncos scored seven points total in
the road playoff loss in Buffalo, and the seven came

(04:43):
on the first possession of the game. So, yes, the
defense wasn't up to the task, but they didn't do
enough on offense either. The Charger game in La right
where they got off to I mean, I think I'm
trying to remember, but at halftime and they looked like
they're going to be in control of the game. So

(05:03):
you got to have both sides sort of working in Unison.
There'll be some games this year, even as good as
this defense is on paper, where you know, for whatever reason, mistackles,
missed assignments, blown coverages, great plays by their opponent. You know,
they give up thirty four points. Good teams understand that

(05:24):
in games like that, the offense has to rally. The
offense has to pick it up, and they got.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
To do more.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
They've got to score more, be better on third down,
stay on the field, keep their defense off the field.
And then conversely, there'll be games for the Broncos offense,
you know, for whatever the reason, maybe a turnover here
or there, maybe a drop pass on third down, just
can't get it going, maybe a bad play call and
you're just not in rhythm offensively.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
The Broncos defense then has to understand, like, hey, we
got to show up today. We've got to make sure
we get these guys our offense back in the field
as quick as we can so they can get stuff going.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
The good teams find a way to play in Unison.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
By the way, the Chargers game, they were up twenty
one to ten at one point in the second quarter,
then it was twenty one thirteen at halftime, right yep,
and then twenty four to thirteen midway through the third.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
And then and then you know, I mean that's the game.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
You were right there, You're eleven point lead in the
third quarter and the game ended.

Speaker 5 (06:19):
Thirty four seven, thirty four to twenty seven. So yeah,
the defated down the stretch. I think everybody saw that.
And I believe and the Broncos believe they addressed whatever
issues they had on defense in the offseason with green Law,
Helfunga Baron on the first round. DJ Jones, Yes, so

(06:40):
I think they know that they needed to be better
and they got some better personnel. You're gonna have a
healthy Alex Singleton as well this year, hopefully, hopefully he
can bounce back and be the same kind of player
he was. And so they go into this season once
again the beatdown they took again, it's Buffalo on the road.

(07:02):
They went out and they said, we got to do
something about this defensively, and I think they did.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, you have you right, and you know you didn't
see a market over correction, right, You didn't fire the
defensive coordinator, You didn't overhaul the defense off of that
one loss. And to your point, right, you can sort
of build on that rather than just sort of the hey,
you know that loss and the way you lost the
Chargers game, the Bengals game, the way things ended. Have

(07:30):
a certain feeling about the way the defense and to
Dave's point, the way some of the offense played. But
the reality of it is is you didn't make wholesale
changes because you believe you're on the right track. And
that's a great point you bring up the rick.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
Yeah, So in many ways, I feel like it gives
them more confidence. It should, and I think they're better prepared.
I think they have a better roster going into this
season than their ten win season last year. I also
love the guys they drafted in the third and fourth
round on defense, Jones and ke Robinson. Those guys are

(08:00):
going to be really interesting to watch in the preseason,
I think, to see what they can do. They're still
projects with a big upside. Kean Robinson in particular really
intrigues me. He's a guy that basically was special team player.
Last year was the first chance he really got to play,
and he gets hurt, but in the four or five
games he played, he was outstanding.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
He's going to be a fun one to watch, by.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
The way, Dave, they at the four to twenty eight
mark the third quarter, the Broncos had an eighty point
four percent chance to win that game.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
About Chargers game, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Eighty point four percent chance to win. You know they
did that graph. Yeah, based on the odds, eighty point four.
That was the highest mark of the whole game. Eighty
point four at four to twenty eight left in the
third quarter.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
I mean they clearly, I mean they for anybody who
saw the game, they clearly outplayed the Chargers.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
They did.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Now you come back to the Chargers game early in
the season against the Broncos. It was it was in reverse.
Chargers outplayed the Broncos. At one point. I think Los
Angeles had a twenty maybe twenty three to nothing lead,
and then the Broncos closed, but it was in the
fourth quarter and didn't quite have enough. So I mean

(09:13):
that's going to be I mean they're all important for sure,
but the Chargers matchups those two games, and one of
them is early, will be very, very important for the Broncos.
I mean, in terms of ASAFC West supremacy, you want
to win the AFC West period and if you do,
you host a playoff game and then I don't care

(09:33):
who they play, it would be a wildcard team. I
would like their chances against anybody in the AFC. In
January here at in power Field of Mile.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
High today Gord Morning Football ran a fascinating poll. They said,
excluding Patrick Mahomes, which AFC West quarterback would you trust
with the game online? Justin Herbert you know Smith or Bowe, Nicks, Dave.
Excluding Patrick Mahomes, which AFC West quarterback would you trust
with the game on the line?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Or do you want to guess how the poll worked out?

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Well, this is a national poll.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
This is a national poll.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
So you're taking Patrick Mahomes out of the mix. Yes,
you're giving me Geno Smith boon Knicks or Justin.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Herbert correct, and there's been over eighty one hundred votes.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Well, I would I would think that the majority of
the national people would say Justin Herbert. I you know,
I'm obviously a homer. Justin Herbert has every single skill
that you want in a quarterback. I still can't get

(10:40):
over he hasn't won a playoff game. Now you say, well, Dave,
neither's bon Nicks. I know, but bo Nicks have been
in the league for a year. I think I would
take I'm going to listen, I'm here in Denver. I'm
gonna take bon Nicks and live with it. Justin Herbert
is a very close second, and Gino Smith would be
a third.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
And just for a moment, I think that's an amazing
thing that we can even have that conversation a year
ago at this time when you've been like if we're
having a conversation about Justin Herbert and boon Nicks and
clutch moments in a similar situation, and feeling good about
that because a year ago at this time, it's like,
I don't even know what Bonick is gonna be, but
I know Justin Herbert's good, Like I know he's a

(11:20):
good quarterback, and he's still a good quarterback.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, but I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
And by the way, the poll forty eight percent took
bon Nicks thirty nine percent Justin Herbert.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Really, yes, that surprises me.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Bonnicks on a national poll pulled ahead.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Of Justin I would say that on a national sort
of scope. Last year in the playoffs hurt Justin Herbert
in terms of how people view him, right, because the Chargers.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Of me here, you get Jim Harbaugh.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Okay, he's going to be better run the ball, You're
gonna be better on defense, You're gonna be more sound,
You're gonna do all the things that you need to
do in order to put your team in the best position.
Then you get into the playoffs and you go to
Houston and he, I mean, he just didn't play well.
He threw either three or maybe four interceptions.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
It was four. Hold, I mean if bo Nicks.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
I mean, honestly, if bow Knicks would have thrown I
can't even remember both throwing an interception against Buffalo.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
So Herbert threw four four and he took four sacks too.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, I mean that's just not a good performance. I mean,
did he get pressured he did. There are all sorts
of reasons, but ultimately, as a quarterback, I think guys
who played the position would tell you it comes down
to how you played. And he's the guy for the Chargers,
so he has to play good football and throwing four

(12:43):
picks and taking four sacks not all his fault, but
that's not good football. And I don't have stats in
front of me bow Knicks in crunch time and Justin Herbert,
but I feel like bow Knicks is the choice. He's
the guy you want to go with in crunch time.
And I do believe the luster.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
It's starting to come off, the shine's starting to come off,
Justin Herbert. Just like you said, Dave, there's something there
that's just not right now. Hopefully that continues this year
because the Chargers are building a good football team, a
better football team around him.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
But you remember when the rumors, and maybe they were
just rumors, but before not this last draft, but last
year's draft, and there was this rumor and Ryan, you
and I were talking about it on the show. And
I can't remember if Al was part of the show
then or not, but we were talking about it because

(13:36):
the rumor was out there that Jim Harbaugh had called
Minnesota about the possibility of the Vikings taking Justin Herbert
and the Chargers taking that draft to us, and we
were like flabbergasted. We're like, there's no way that could

(13:58):
possibly be true. And ultimately, you know, he didn't. That
ultimately didn't happen. Do I have proof that that call
actually got made. I do not, But it was just
a really far fetched rumor at the time that after
this year, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Hmm, yeah, I don't know. And again, it's not like
Justin Herbert had a bad season. In fact, I mean
thirty eight hundred passing yards, twenty three passing touchdowns, and
three picks.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
That's Herbert.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, I mean Bonix's numbers were a little better. But again,
twenty three to three is an incredible ratio. He did
not turn the ball over, didn't take a ton of sacks.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
But I see, I think with a guy like Justin
Herbert with that skill set, you got to have more
than twenty three touchdowns. Now, people would say, and they
would be right. David didn't have anybody to throw to
outside last year. He didn't have great receivers last year.
I get it. Neither did Bo. You know what, that's
exactly That's exactly right. And Bo and Bo didn't throw

(14:53):
a pick. I don't believe in the Buffalo game. So yeah,
I mean I would take Bo. It would be closer
than what the national poll was, but I would take
Bow ahead of Herbert.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, we had awesome the Kawi Cows for Health Hotline.
And bring on a very good friend of the program,
The What and Only James Palmer at James Palmer TV. James,
my friend is good to catch up with you. You're
on Dave Logan, Ryan Edwards and Rick Lewis.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
How are you?

Speaker 6 (15:18):
I'm good, boys. How you doing? It's like, you know,
football chatter is back. Yeah, returning from vacation. Uh, you know,
let's get out there.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah that you know what that's Uh, it's it's getting
to be the perfect time of year because the weather
is good, it's nice and hot. But you know that
training camp is right around the corner. I can remember
as a player that like the last two weeks, ten
days or so before I went to camp. Honestly, I
mean I was thinking, Oh, I got to go back

(15:48):
to camp and get that thing going again. But I
want to ask you, just from a broadcasters standpoint, it's
it's not really that way for broadcasters, right, there's more
of an excitement level, I think for for broadcasters and players.

Speaker 6 (16:01):
There's that, and there's all right, which camps are we
going to? And what do I need to pack when
we go to Jacksonville and try to see Travis Hunter
and what he's doing in camp? Like, all right, where
are the spots we're gonna go? I guess that's kind
of the excitement. And I do think and that's one
of my favorite things of jumping on with you guys
and covering camps is what usually happens. And I've always

(16:23):
been awarded this over the last decade plus, which is
I think a nice luxury this time of year is
you watch the same players throughout all of camp. When
you're on a beat, and I've been on a beat before,
I cover the league to Ashley, and you kind of
get a little a perspective of just that team. When
I bounce around from team to team and then I
come back to Denver, I think it actually gives me

(16:43):
an added perspective and excitement about what each team brings
because you see how different camps are are run. You
don't get to see the same guys going against each
other each and every day. I hate to say it,
but oftentimes when we watch one team or going, I
think this is going to be really really good, and
then you go look at another camp and you go, well,
you guys aren't in the same caliber as this squad, Like, no,
maybe it's not going to be yeah good.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (17:05):
So I do love that idea of bouncing around, and
that's my favorite part of camp in this time of year,
is getting a chance to kind of compare and contrast
how teams operate and how they look.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Hey, James, should Broncos fans be concerned at all that
their first two draft picks haven't signed yet? Or is
this just a part of the process.

Speaker 6 (17:26):
I mean, if they were the Bengals, I'd be concerned,
But no, I think this is kind of what's going on.
A couple of contracts, obviously in the second round, have
changed the way the rest of that second round has
been done. I mean, usually what happens with these type
of things is and you know when when precedent changes
from one side or the other, and we've seen that's
what's changed a little bit with second round picks. Usually

(17:47):
there's going to be some time that takes a minute.
But no, I don't think there's any there's no there's
no pause because what's happening with you know, Harvey is
the same thing as rest around the league, and so no,
I don't think there's any there's any cause for concern
talking to anybody. This isn't like a Schumer Stewart situation
that's going on in Cincinnati right now. It's nothing of
that nature. It's more kind of a commonality that's happening

(18:09):
actually with some of the other other spots around, specifically
the second round picks.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
James Palmer joining us here.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I want to ask you sort of it's a little
bit hypothetical, but it just rolled me for a second here.
Jaydon Daniels, of course, was phenomenal last year. One rookie
of the Year. He was the fifth ranth quarterback in
ESPN's top ten that just came out. I understand all
the accolades, but for a moment, if he had not
had the season he did, and bo Nicks was considered
the best quarterback of last year's draft class, because I'd

(18:35):
say he's second right now, pending scene more from Drake
May Caleb Williams and JJ McCarthy. But if he was
considered the best quarterback of that draft class, what would
be the expectation coming into this year? What would be
being said about bo Nix and how height he'd be
going into his sophomore season.

Speaker 6 (18:54):
Yeah, Ron, that's a really good question because I kind
of said this to some NFL people and had this
conversation like, what would be the perception of Bonnicks if
Jade Daniels didn't have a rookie season for the agents,
essentially with the organization and franchise, we know everything Washington
has been through, and to take that organization to an
NFC championship game and beat Detroit on your way there,

(19:14):
I think Moris should be on Bonnicks and maybe this
and followed you with you know, follow me nout Ryan, Like,
I do think this might benefit him in some capacity.
With the way Jayden and Daniels played, he can go
out about his business after having a monster rookie season
like one that's very underrated considering of what Jayden went

(19:35):
out and did, considering the dead money, considering the lack
of weapons, he didn't have a Terry McLaurin, I think
Portland's a good receiver, Terry's an outstanding receiver, and a
safety blanket, and zach Ertz and some of the stuff
that they had. I think the situation that he's in
in having this success he had in his rookie season
and not having really the bullseye that maybe Jadon Daniels

(19:58):
does have on him might benefit BO in a sense
that where he can go about in his sophomore year,
specifically when people like me are making the rounds around
the league, like he's going to go into this year
just going about his business and growing and maybe not
having as much attention on him, And I think that
actually might benefit him in a sense. But I do
think more people should be talking about Bo and what

(20:20):
he did. When I mentioned the dead money, they were
dealing with the lack of skill guys, how he didn't
turn the football over. The athleticism that I think surprised
them people in the way he was able to move
with the football. I do think he's surprised some people
around the league, But I think the Jaden situation actually
helps him heading into year two.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
A little bit.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
We're talking to James Palmer. James we were discussing before
he came on Justin Herbert. And here's the guy that
I mean from a physical standpoint, He's got every single
thing you look for, rocket arm, good enough athlete, he's
two hundred and forty pounds and six sent me, he
can run, he can throw it, and yet want a

(21:00):
playoff game.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Yet I just wonder.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
From a national perspective, what's sort of your best I
won't say guests, but estimation in terms of how Justin
Herbert is viewed nationally as a quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 6 (21:18):
It kind of is exactly this. They all know right
there that he has everything that you that you listed.
I've covered the vast majority of his battles with Patrick
Mahomes in Kansas City where they have gone toe to toe, right,
but he always comes up short when he's there in
Kansas City, and he's he's outplayed Patrick Mahomes at times there.

(21:40):
But what we're looking at is a results based business,
and I think you could kind of connect it a
little bit to you know, with this quarterback granking came
out today and we're looking at guys that are you know,
probably had better seasons than Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen
and Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow, but none of them
are ahead of him because it's it's play playoff wins matter,

(22:01):
you know what I mean, Like when we're all watching it,
it's nationally televised games. Those things matter. Now. I've covered
a number of his games where it's not his fault
that like he takes him down the field and the
ball goes off the upright right, like that happened in
Kansas City when I was there this past year, and
something else goes wrong. The perception of him is he's
right there and people almost want to see him get

(22:24):
over that hump. He leads in such a quiet manner
in that building. He's not as tough as they come
at the quarterback position. I don't think people know what
he was playing through at the beginning portion of the
season with his with his foot ankle situation, and the
respect that he has in that building. I think everybody's
just kind of waiting, And I think that's going to
be something that bow Knicks is going to have to

(22:45):
deal with and every quarterback's gonna have to do with
this in the AFC, because there's still a little bit
of that judgment because of playoff football and because of
the other quarterbacks that are in this conference, it's tough
to get up near that top group. But he has
the ability to do it, and I think people are
almost quietly rooting for him to do it because of
the player he is. He just hasn't been able to

(23:05):
put it all together. And let's be honest that the
Chargers haven't been able to put it all together. And
after one year with Harrball, I think now that ramps
up a little bit when everybody goes, Okay, that he
did that hurt in his first year, Okay, what can
they do as a team in his second year?

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Hey, James. Back to the Broncos.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Something that we discussed in the first hour about Marvin Mims.
I feel like the Broncos are expecting him to be
wide receiver too. I think going into training camp that's
the expectation for him. Do you think he can fill
that role?

Speaker 6 (23:38):
That's I think it's a that's a million dollar question, honestly,
because I hope people don't you know, dog me for
this comparison, But when we started seeing him last year
get used in these variety of roles, just trying to
get touches right, whether it's the Jets needs or putting
them in the backfield or finding ways like it really
and you guys can ask me to be greet this
and it really started to feel like the early portion

(24:00):
of McCole Hardiman in Kansas City, Like it was like
find ways to get him the football, and it's other
ways other than being a downfield receiver. Now we saw
that in the second half of the season start to
come on a little bit more, But I still think
there's that like underlying question of like just straight receiver play.
Can you fill the shoes as the number two guy?

(24:21):
I think it's going to be a great competition. I mean,
not taking receiver till the third round. Who Priban's going
to be in that mix? And then you have you know,
Troy Franklin in all accounts in that building, they believe
he had a pretty good spring, and Bailey obviously being
a little banged up, but they're all competing for touches.
Marvin has a great, you know, second half showing to
put himself in contention, but still the manner in which

(24:44):
he's used, which is a little bit untraditional. I'm curious
if that hurts or helps him or how does he
grow off of that to make sure everybody in that
building knows that he can do it in the other ways,
not just we have to be very creative and think
outside the box. How we use him. Can we use
him like a straight number two? Now you might not
have to write you have m and Ingram who's a

(25:05):
pass catching tight end. You still might be able to
do it and build off of it. But I think
that's the thing that everybody's curious about. It's just the
straight wide receiver part of it. How much does he
grow in year three?

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Now, last one of your forty James always appreciate the time,
my friend. I want to go back to that top
ten list from ESPN and I want to debate the
top four. I actually want to ask you when is
Jalen Hurts going to get his flowers? Because he was
number nine on that list, And honestly, listen, I get,
you know, Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen and Mahomes and
all that, but it's like, what does this guy have
to do to get the respect? And it is a

(25:36):
Philly guy, come on now, yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 6 (25:39):
I mean he he's one of those guys that we've
seen him get better each and every year. We've seen
him grow each and every year. He's I think he's
a victim of his situation. When you have a tight
end in Dallas Goddard, who talking to people around the league,
guys believe it, and many believed it, a top five
tight end in this league, and he can barely get
touches because you got to find ways to get it
to aj Brown and Sakwon Barkley and Devonte Smith and

(26:02):
one of the best offensive lines in football. I feel
like that almost hurts Jalen to some capacity. But when
I look, and we talked about this with Justin Herbert,
when the games are played on the biggest stage, he
has not failed us really ever, honestly. I mean I
was at both those Super Bowls against Patrick Mahomes. He
out played him in both of them. I mean he
won one or two, but he out played Mahomes in

(26:24):
both Super Bowls. And so when really push comes to
shove on the biggest stage, he really comes out and plays.
And so I think he is a little bit of
a victim of his situation. And they have to play
offensive football a little bit differently, and a little bit
that is because of the way Jalen plays the position,
and whenever you're different, I think that always makes it
a little bit tough because you look at the top

(26:45):
four and where was Lamar And he's got two MVPs
and I could have should have won, maybe won the
third if you wanted to this past year. So it's
tough when you played a little bit differently, and I
think that hurts Jalen bit man.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
I think you're right about that, my friend.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
We look forward to seeing you at a training camp
next week.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Can't wait.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Always a pleasure. It's a great sentence. It brings me
so much joy. James are the best. We appreciate you, man.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
I'm excited, guys.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Thanks James.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
All right, James Palmer fantastic human being, fantastic guy.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Lives locally will and of course he makes the tour.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
As he mentioned, he's going to be checking out a
lot of training camps, I'm sure, but he'll be back
here in Denver to check out what this season is
going to be.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
I think he said it right there.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
You know, everybody who's debating the top four quarterbacks today
on ESPN of this list, this top ten list, but
I thought the most egregious thing not only seeing Jaydon
Daniels at five after one season. But Dave Jalen Hurts Man,
you know, we talk about team quarterbacks that you'd want
to start a franchise with.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
I really like Jalen Hurts, I really do. I think
he's underrated.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
I think he's underrated too. And I think and I
think James made a really good point in terms of
what or how that Philadelphia offense runs, it's there. There
aren't many offenses in the league that looked like.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
That, right that.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
I mean, even even before they had Saquon Barkley. I mean,
it was a run heavy. I mean the first time
they went to the Super Bowl and played the Chiefs,
Chiefs won that game. I mean, Jalen Hurts in the
regular season that year was much more likely to be
involved in the running game, and they just ran, ran
the ball down your throat. This past year, he didn't.

(28:31):
He didn't run it the same way, and yet they
were They were very effective. And James rightfully so named
all the skill position players with AJ Brown, DeVante Smith
and I Sakuon Barkley, Ertz. They've they've got some not goddard,
they've got some really good weapons. And I think he
plays the position where in the offense where you don't.

(28:53):
He's not forced to take a lot of chances, and
so you probably don't appreciate how he plays the game
because it's a little bit different. It looks a little
bit different than almost every other NFL quarterback.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
There's a baseline of expectation. Generally speaking, he's had his
bad games.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Everybody has a bad games, but I have this baseline
of expectation of what he's going to do game in,
game out.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
But you know, we don't.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
I mean I don't dismiss Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. Well,
Josh Allen doesn't have as much talent around him as
he used to, but Lamar Jackson's got a tremendous supporting cast.
And I don't discount Lamar Jackson's MVPs because he's got.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Really good players around him. Why are we down on
Jalen Hurts?

Speaker 5 (29:31):
Yeah, I don't know why he doesn't get the respect either.
He's done everything you would want your quarterback to do.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
He's not as dynamic. Yeah maybe that's Lamar Jackson. No not,
But you make a good point, Rick. It just what
he does.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
It doesn't flash, it doesn't jump out at you.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
What Lamar does. I mean, you're like, whoa you see?
That is the same thing for Josh Allen.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
Good point and Jalen I think is more consistent than
Lamar Jackson in some way. And and and then maybe goes
to your point. He's not flashy, you know, he's at
rock solid it is. I love the guy, A great leader,
great in the locker room. What what I can't understand
on this list is Jaden Daniels at number five. And
I'm a big Jaden Daniels fan, but after one year,

(30:17):
I don't understand how they put him in the top five.
I could see him at ten based off of that year.
But what do you compare to who? So, who's behind him?
Matthew Stafford, He's got They have Stafford behind him at six,
Justin Herbert seven, Golf eight, Hurts nine, and then Baker

(30:37):
Mayfield at ten.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Huh, yeah, it makes sense to you about at five.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
I mean, he's he's a hell of a good young
player for sure, great player, and you know they play
in a huge market and they made the NFC Championship game.
You know, now they won some games last year that
you know just went their way. And you always think
that things like that usually even up Yep, they really do.

(31:06):
So I think Washington will be good. I don't look
for the Commanders, you know, to be that team again
in the NFC East. I think they'll be competitive. I
think they'll win games. I wonder what they're over and
under total is in Vegas that that would tell you
a little bit in terms of how the betting world
views the Commanders.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'm gonna tell you right now it is. I want
to say it's probably ten and a half, nine and
a half right now.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
And that's the same. That's the same as the Broncos
yp it is, okay.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
I liked the point that James made there talking about
Daniels versus Nicks, because it became more or less a
foregone conclusion as we got into mid December, I thought
that Daniels was probably gonna win Rookie of the Year.
Maybe early December kind of felt like we were talking
ourselves into hey, strong clothes here from both maybe, But

(32:01):
by mid December, I think we'd all sort of accept
that Jadan Daniels is gonna win that award. But I'm
thinking about it in terms of if he didn't have
the season that he did, Bow Knicks would have been
in the conversation for Offensive Rookie of the Year. I
imagine brock Bauer still wins it. Like brock Bauers I
think finished second in voting overall, but Jade Daniels got
all but one first place vote, so he was like

(32:23):
runaway on this thing. But I like what James Palmer
said there, because he's kind of right. I think bow
Knicks gets a chance to ride under the national attention here,
under the radar because of Daniel's performance, because how prolific
he was. Bonnix gets to be an underdog even after

(32:44):
that season this year.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah, I think that's probably true what you said.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
I again, I just think take it nothing from Jayden
and Daniels. Great athlete, can throw it, can run, it
can throw on the run. But they they won some
really improbable games.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
It's a lot a great roster too.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, I mean I think they're I think they have
good skill position guys. I'm not sure how good their
defense is. So you know they played the Eagles twice.
They mean, they played the Giants, and Giants are not
any good played the Cowboys.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Who knows how the Cowboys will be.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
But I mean I think I think the fact that
they're they're over and under total is nine and a
half for a team that went to the NFC Championship game.
The Broncos over and under total is nine and a
half for a team that played in the playoffs and
lost their first game. So I don't think it's a
guarantee that the Commanders go over.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't think it's a guarantee that the Commanders win
ten or more games.

Speaker 5 (33:49):
You know, bo, I'm looking at stats compared to Jayden
Daniels comparables stats last year. Both threw for more yards,
threw for more touchdowns, took about at the sacks Jayden
Daniels did as well. When you look at their stat line,
they're they're very similar and jayde and Daniels being the

(34:09):
high draft pick certainly helps him.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
His profiles much higher than bow. But Bau had a
heck of a rookie.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Year, unbelievable, and that's kind of what I guess the
basis of that conversation question was for me is I
was like, but you go like side by side and
bow Knicks had an offensive rookie of the year kind
of got performance right, just like if the season CJ
strad won it.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
He really didn't have anybody running against him, Like c J.
Straddard locked that thing up.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Probably in November, we'd all stopped talking about Offensive Rookie
of the Year because CJ was off to such a start.
I think bow Knicks would have done the same thing
if Jadon Daniels wasn't as good. But Jade Daniels, the
one thing he had is he had some high profile
wins like they won, and he had the biggest moments
in primetime games. Yeah, and then I mean and in

(34:55):
the primetime games he would toe to toe with Michael
Pennix Junior I in that Atlanta game that was really
fun game back and forth late in the season.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
I mean, there was just so many moments that Jane Daniels.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
There were signature moments for him that I think kind
of put him over the top. But again, it's not
to take away from him. It's just more of an
acknowledgement that Bonis had a spectacular year. And I think
it's good for him that he doesn't come into this
year being asked about what's the follow up to maybe
an Offensive Rookie of the Year campaign, because that's what
happened with CJ.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Stroud.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
CJ Stroud came in with all the pressure, all the
intention behind him of you're that guy, and you need
to be that guy right away. Even in year two,
we have loaded you up. You have Stefan Diggs. Now
you have so much talent around you. I think Bonnicks
doesn't have to worry about any of that question.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
The other thing about Jadan Daniels, he's really fun to watch.
He plays football with so much joy. He's always smiling,
he's laughing. I bet he's great in the room. You
can't take your eyes off him when he's on the field.
It will be interesting, though, in a sophomore season here
to see how that goes.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
I have a feeling Bo's gonna play

Speaker 5 (35:59):
Just as well this year as him, maybe even just
a little better statistically like you did last year.