Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're on until six o'clock this evening with Broncos Country
tonight coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We got the All Star Game for Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Definitely have some baseball in our minds, especially after last
night's in the home run derby and our color Rockies
drafting Ethan Holiday, and to help us break it all down,
we head out to the KWA Comma Spirit Health Highline
and bringing a very good friend of the program, the
one and only Thomas Harding. Thomas, my friend, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I feel good? I feel clean, taking a little bit
of an All Star break before I lean back into
the second half of what's been a total mess.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
For the Rocky and mess is a good way to
describe it, for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Tell us a little bit about before we get into
the first half and expectations for the second half the draft.
Everybody seems to be very amped about Ethan Holiday. How
quickly do you think that he might even get a
chance to play in the big leagues.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'll tell you what, Jackson Holiday almost came up his
first full year in the miners, and I wouldn't be
surprised if Ethan isn't in that conversation. Aren't he? Because
he is a big, strong, good applet that can hit
some home runs. A lot of those guys making some
major sleets quickly. And if you're the Colorado Rockies and
I was looking at their system, I actually spent some
(01:09):
time with the Double A team last week. Thirteen guys
who were in Double A last year played at some
point with the team this year with the big league team,
and they're going to get more chances. And I'm going
to be surprised that five or six of those Double
A guys also got to get some the majors this year.
So they're moving them through quickly. That's part of the problem.
You're not enough veterans to hold down these positions to
(01:31):
let the younger guys get ready. So he's a holiday.
He could be in the Rockies sooner than you know it.
Could it be next season. I wouldn't rule that out.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Hey, hey, Thomas, so this is Shelby.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Here is here?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I guess my question is, of all the other draft
things and no order in general, who are you most
excited about other than holiday?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Okay, other than ethan holiday? There are a couple that
I'm pretty excited about because of what we've seen from
the Rockies JB. Middleton, the second round pick. I'm really
excited for him. Right hander, kind of shorter than your
prototypical right hand, but his stuff is really good. It's
very well. Nearly took Southern Methodists to the I'm sorry,
(02:15):
other of Mississippi to the College World Series. He's the
guy I'm excited about because he's been through some things,
an injury, some stumps, and it may be the kind
of person work his way through the Rocky system. The
other guy is you know, there are a number of them,
but Cam Milton, who I think third fourth round pick
(02:36):
out of Wake Forest, an incredible athlete. He missed a
lot of times last year because of a soft tissue injury,
but he's the type of athlete that the Rockies haven't had.
Not the biggest guy in the world. He doesn't take
that home run swing, but he can give you a
good debt. He could really run. He's very athletic. I mean,
just the type of guy that when you look through
a batting order, Yeah, you want to have your big bompers,
(02:59):
you want to have to speak guys. You want to
have a guy also that maybe isn't the biggest guy
in the world, but can hit a home run the
opposite way, So he is exciting me.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Thomas, let me ask you just off the draft and
about the Rockies in particular, and you have covered them
for a long time and as well as anybody, and
so I want to ask you, just from a fans perspective,
with the season that the Rockies are having this year, what.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
Do you think, if anything, the front.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Office will do with respect to any kind of changes
once the season is done.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I expect major changes. And the thing that hit me
was when Walker Montfort was promoted to executive vice president,
because while he has worked on the business side, my
understanding is that he is full of newer ideas. Now
the big question will be how much money will he
have to do with actually execute the ideas. My thought
(04:02):
about the Rockies is, and they take a lot of
them sleeves narrows for being behind the times. Part of
it to me is it's a bit of a thin organization.
Where maybe some organizations may have more people working on
a problem, it seems like the Rockies have fewer people working.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
On the problem.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
What I want to see a is what happens at
the top of the baseball operation. Is it just a
general manager right now you have Bille Schmidt or is
there a general manager, but above him, maybe a veteran
baseball person, someone who has been a general manager, negotiated
these contracts before getting here to Colorado and work on
it that way and throughout the organization. That's what I've seen,
(04:43):
is like it seems like they need more help than
just a house bleeding. I'm sure there'll be some changes,
but I would like to see this more help, maybe
a beef up organization.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Tom's Harden joining us from MLB dot Com at Harding
Underscore at Underscore MLB on Twitter. So I mean, again,
we don't know how the rest of the season is
going to play out, whether they'll end up with record
wise being the worst team in baseball history.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
They're certainly on target for that, But how would you.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Sum up the first half and there woes their issues
based on what you thought this season was going to be.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well, it's really interesting. I was actually finishing my mid
term report with him, So I'll have to beat the deadlight,
or if they get as close to the deadlight that
I've blown. But if you look at the Rockies over
the past few years, they were forming to twenty twenty
five as the beginning of something special. But they lost
a bunch of pitchers to Tommy John surgery. A lot
(05:40):
of them that are just not pitching this year, including
Hermy Marquez and Antonio SI's a tell, but I count
at least four or five prospects that should be here.
They had Tommy John surgery.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And also some.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Guys didn't pan out the way they wanted. I mean,
Brendan Rodgers, he was a good player, but was he
one of the leaders. David Dall, he was an All Star,
completely dropped off. So in the beginning they were already
behind him. Then when Ezekiel Tolberg got hurt the start
the season, that that that dumped them into this threatening
the worst team of all time because you already had
(06:13):
tyrostroa hurt. And as much as as much effort as
Chris Bryant put into getting getting healthy, he never did
get healthy. You've got a team that you look all
around the diamond and they're amusing people, and they're putting
out a team with a lot of guys that maybe
are trying to get trying to work their way into
the big leagues, maybe even not ready for the big leagues.
(06:35):
And this is what happens hy Thomas.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Just for me, I guess last question for obviously, trade
deadlines obviously a big deal in baseball, and the Rockies
are obviously going to be sellers and they're not going
to buy. So for you, what who was most likely
to end up going in the trade deadline trade this year?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, and I know the reputation as holding on the guys,
this is not the year to do it. I wouldn't
be surprised if Hermi Marcus and the other pitcher, the
left handed pitcher Alison Gomber with her in the last
year of their contracts, get something for them. Ryan McMahon,
he has some time left on his contract on a
good team. He's an asset as a great defender and
(07:20):
somebody to hit down in the order. He's hitting in
the meat of the order for the Rockies and that's
not working. Also, I would look around the field. I mean,
had a couple of guys out of the bullpen, Jake Burn,
Tyler Kinley, even Jimmy Hergert who's pitch well. Trade some
of those guys and maybe you can help build your system.
But I do want one of these trades, whether it's
one of those guys or whether it's Tyro Estrada or
(07:42):
Mickey Mognac or somebody like that, to get in a
veteran type because there aren't enough veterans, and that's one
of the issues. Very quickly they make these trades. They
may weaken the team right now, but I'll help them
in the future. So they beat the trades and it
assures them of being the worst team ever. Let's look
in two years and see that hasn't helped him to
be any.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Fantastic point, Thomas, always great to catch up with you man,
Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, so that's interesting, and so you know, because yea,
I added Orlando Arcia and Dave.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
We talked about it when it happened.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
We're like, okay, well, this is clearly a team that
does not want to be the worst team in baseball
history when you're adding a guy like that. But now
you're here at the trade deadline and you have some
decisions to make, and you really, you really do need
to be thinking about the future more so than the
president of being the worst team in baseball. It'll be
fascinating to see from a front office standpoint what their
actions do to tell us what they think about that.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
You know, he's probably right when he talks about a
guy like Ryan McMahon. The issue is, you know, if,
of course this would be in hindsight, but he's had
good years offensively, he's been a productive guy.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
You could have made that move last year.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
I mean this year he's sitting low two hundreds, so
I don't know how appealing now. He's a good defensive player,
and maybe, as Thomas suggested, maybe if you hit him
down in the lineup, he gets a little more, he
gets treated a little bit differently from opposing pitchers that
(09:17):
he might hitting where he's hitting. But the thing he
said that, I think if Rockies fans listening to the show,
that would be sort of like, ugh, you serious. But
I think it's probably true. I mean, to make some
of these deals, you make those for the future, but
the short term, the near future, might you know, not
(09:40):
be good. And I'm thinking, man, it hasn't been good
for three straight years.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
I thought he said the right thing.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I thought it was an accurate description of what has
happened in that twenty twenty five was supposed to be
the year that some of these guys sort of started
to break out. That's from the Rockies fans pon effective.
That's why they were able to tolerate twenty twenty four
and twenty twenty three, both seasons they lost more than
one hundred games because they pointed toward this year. And
(10:11):
then as you heard him again correctly illustrate injuries, especially
the starting staff.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
Tovar. And we're sitting here where we're sitting.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
So do you think it's a harder idea and the
harder thing to do to be a veteran player on
a contract on a very bad team or if you
get trade to a good team, being that guy on
a good team as in, is it less pressure for
that player if he's on a team that actually is
competing and you're not the only you know this, think
(10:46):
about it for being a Rockies player right now, you're
one of the one of the worst teams in history.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
I think there's more frustration on a veteran player being
on a team like this, But I think there's more
pressure to a veteran player being on a good team.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
So do you think this frustration if you take that
frustration out and this is more about the riding man.
If they want to end up trading him. Obviously, he's
a good glove and that's what that's what he's really
holding his head on right now because he hasn't he
hasn't really been hitting. So for him, obviously, it would
be great to go to a winning team and go
(11:21):
out there and try and try to win. Do you
think that changes his approach to the plate and does
it actually lead the more hits for him? Does actually
lead the more success for him? Do you think a
change of scenery would actually be good for him?
Speaker 6 (11:35):
I think he would.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
I mean, I think you could make the case that
he'd be a little more focused if he were dealt.
Anytime you get dealt to another team and you go
in and I think you have hyper focus initially because
you're the new guy.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Now.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
I thought what Thomas Hardin said and I alluded to
was also accurate. You know, on another team, you know
he's probably not hitting three or four, he's probably hitting
six or seven. And then you know you're gonna see
different pitches in different situations.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
So maybe that's that helps him.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
We've seen Ryan McMahon be an, you know, an above
average offensive player. I mean, I can't remember exactly was
it last year or the year before. But Ryan McMahon,
you know, hit in the two eighties, I mean, was
a solid offensive contributor. So I don't know what we
attribute what's happened to him this year offensively, But he
(12:31):
last time I looked, he was hitting like two.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Ten, Yeah, to twelve as this moment, forty two, last year,
year before to forty, So he's kind of the year
before to forty six. Really, so I he never hit
two eighty or season fifty four? Is his career high
twenty one?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
You know what?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I I completely had that wrong in my mind. I
thought he had a two seventy season, two eighty season.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But he's been north of twenty home runs for four
straight years, five of the last six, so I mean,
you're right, it's been very productive. I also thought it
was interesting from Thomas a moment ago where he said
he expects major changes. I don't think a lot of
Rockies fans do like regardless of whether they're the worst
team in baseball history or otherwise. I think a lot
of Rockies fans are feeling a little apathetic because they
(13:17):
felt like the Rockies will get to the end of
the season, they'll assess things and maybe they shuffle the
deck chairs or whatever, but in the end, it's going
to be the same organizational structure. But he said, Thomas said,
I know, I expect major changes, and he thought that
the walker montfort move was this sort of a sign
of that.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Well, I mean, they so walker Montford is taking over
for Greg Feesel. Greg Fiesel has been with the team
for party plus years. Yeah, right, and Greg primarily was
on the business side. So I haven't seen it stipulated
(13:54):
in terms of what exactly walker Montford's duties will be.
But I think the question for Rockies fans is, hey,
do we need somebody else to come in and completely
revamp the baseball.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Side of the organization.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
I don't have any idea whether Dick Montford is willing
to do that. We've talked to him. We didn't talk
to him this year, but we talked to him last year.
I asked him that question and they said they had
interviewed two or three candidates. And I'm paraphrasing here, but
he said, frankly, they didn't have They didn't bring any
new ideas that we already didn't have, which I thought
(14:35):
was an interesting I mean, it was it was candid,
but I thought it was an interesting response.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
So I don't ask forward what a year and a half.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Is this the year that Dick decides to completely do
over on the baseball side, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Well, something needs to change because the only way right
now the Rockies are getting anybody in All Star Game
is is from just the rule of every team that
has to have representative. The Rockies have to really just
scrape everything and go from the ground up. So the
goal though, and and that's the thing, being a small
market team, you have to be able to hit or
(15:11):
any free agent you got, you you signed, and and
that's that's what's hurting them the most is the people
they signed are not producing for them. And as a
small market team, that's that kills you. So right there,
you know the Rockies got to figure it out because
you have Chris Brian's contact for how much longer? Oh man?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I mean that one. They probably eventually just move on.
But the contract is what it is. I mean, you
pay that money. You got to pay it, cat, So
it doesn't like impact the kind of players you can
bring in other than you don't want to spend more money.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, it does impact because that's the whole. And this
is why, you know, I get it. You know, we're
in Colorado. But that's why I admire the Brewers so much,
because they figured out the perfect formula how to be
a small market team and figure up who you want
to pay. They wouldn't pay Jackson Cheerio last year. And
(16:05):
the kid had never played in the MLB and he's
been a star since he kind of broke out. The
Christian Yellis deal looked like it was going to be
a flop at first because he started, you know, his
average started dropping. But then he kind of has a resurgence,
you know what I mean. You signed Freddy Falter early
to a small deal and he's been one of your
your aces. He's an All star game, right, you know
what I mean. So that's kind of where the Rockies
(16:26):
have to go. You have to hit and and that's
big Ethan Holiday picked it gotta be gotta be a hit.
Anyone see their setup at home. It's it's phenomenal. And
it makes sense of why him and his brother Jackson
become the players that they have because they've been bred
and they they've literally been worked as pro ball players
(16:48):
since they were kids.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, and Jackson's I mean, he's the lead off there
in Baltimore. He's he's a really good player. And yeah,
I mean it was great. I mean even Thomas said
there he could see a path to Ethan coming up fast,
which I think would sort of inject a little bit
of optimism into the franchise, into the fans. You're just
talking about the Brewers because Jacob Misowski is going to
(17:10):
pitch in the All Star Game that I only pitching
twenty five innings of baseball for trying out loud?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
What are we doing? They're trying to be entertaining. Of course,
that's the.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Process.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I think it's hilarious though, because the issue was they
all these rumors are coming out. They asked twelve pitchers
to do it, and they all said no.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Why would you turn down an opportunity to pitch a surgy?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
And then two of the pitchers that did actually get
voted in, they pitched on Saturday, so they're not going
to pitch on three days rest going into this game.
So I get the outrage, but that ms Groowski draws fans,
I think that's all baseball cares about right now, and
that's what the All Star Game for them. Really is
(17:54):
now that you took out that the winners the All
Star Game doesn't determine World Series home advantage. It's just
that's the show it is.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I'm mostly teasing because actually, you know, I love Jacob
Misrowski's because I.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Remember last time I was on he gave up a
Grand Slam and you couldn't wait to tell.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Me, well, he's on my fantasy team. I love this dude.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I was.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
It was commiserating.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I was.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I was reaching out to you to be like this guy,
come on now, I was. I was heartbroken. I was too.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
But hey, those bruise are on a run right now
and he's a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
All right, that's enough bruise tap for one day, five, six,
six nights. Zeros are kay, common spirit health text an
all right, we'll come back to this conversation other side.
But I do want to ask you guys. So we're
talking about for training camp, the things that that fans
and media tend to make a bigger deal of than
that really should be. What is a big deal. They've
got a couple of minutes here, What is a big deal?
What what do we learn or we'll take out of
(18:49):
training camp? From a fan or media's perspective.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Oh man, that's that's that's a hard one. I'm like Shelby,
I think I think preseason games matter. I didn't say
it was a good question.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
I just said it was.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, you didn't want to say a good question, but
you miant you missed question.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I meant not to say good question. I just want
to put it on the board. Hard question should be
up there to it. Yeah, listen, I'm no, I won't
say anything.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
I think you have to see him playing the preseason
and in a controlled scrimmage environment. You may see some
new guys you're not familiar with from a fans standpoint,
so that may, you know, excite you. Maybe looking at JK.
Dobbins for the first time Broncos fans, Maybe looking at R. J.
Harvey and Pat Bryant and some of the other young
(19:42):
guys and see how they're sort of fitting into the
new world of the NFL.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
But I think you have to see I think you
have to see guys.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
In game like action to really have some sort of
conclusion or draw some sort of conclusion as to.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Hey, what do we have here? Well, I guess my
answer is not just training camp it's ot as, it's
training camp until the pads get on. I don't want
to hear anything about how good a player looks on
the lion or d line.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Oh come on this guy.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I don't want to hear a single thing because it's
a such thing as T shirt warriors, and I'm telling
you I've seen it year in and gear out. You
see guys that pop where you don't have pads on,
and you're like, oh, this guy's want to be a
hell of a player, and then they disappear the minute
of those pads come on, because then we're playing real football.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I know Pat Bryant looks really good t.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And that's another it's I think it's more in the trenches,
but also in the outside, Like it's just it's a
different game without it's seven on seven on pads on,
you know what I mean. But when you turn, when
you put them pads on, it's a whole different game.
And so that's why I always get annoyed when I
hear people talk about, oh, you know, this guy looks
great and ot as, none of that stuff matters. I
(21:00):
also said that none that doesn't matters until you play
somebody other than your own team because you find ways
to manipulate your teammates, and you you've been playing against
them for so long, you you pick up on all
their habits, on how they do certain things, and so
you capitalize on that. But until you go out there,
and especially those joint practices are big too. Until you
(21:20):
go out there and play and practice against somebody other
than your teammates, then you'll see if you're going to
be a player or that. Okay, Ryan, Okay, Ryan, Okay, Ryan.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Ryan five six six Night zero is our kaw Wait
Commas fruit Health text line is Alex Pelchwski a good
tackle that that.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Comes from a texture who and by the way, I
think we misidentified it wasn't Alex Forsy. It was Alex
forthite sythe not Alex paul Cheski who got tossed in
the in the Kansas City field goal attempt, Yeah Shelby.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
And then the texture goes on to.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Talk about the big Al had said that Alex Poulcheski
did a great job when he played right tackle. Big
Al said there was no drop off whatsoever, and it
might have been an upgrade. So why are you guys
dissing on him?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Now?
Speaker 5 (22:20):
I answered, I said. All I said was the Broncos
I think might be in the market for. I didn't
say tackle. I said a veteran offensive lineman that can
come in and give them depth at the cutdown date
in training camp. And so the textter said yes or no,
is Alex Poulchski a good tackle? I'll be honest about it.
(22:41):
I haven't studied Alex Paulcheski. I think he's an interesting
young guy. I think he's a good athlete. So I
do think there's some upside with him. But I'd have
to go back. I could sit here and say yes
and just end the discussion, but that it would be
a tad bit disingenuous. So I mean, did you play
have you played against him or seeing him enough on tape?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Now you have a Okay, I know I'm not not
enough to really give a good a good opinion about it.
But what I would say is, you know, whoever the
texture is Big Al's not here right now, so how
do I know what Big House said? Yeah, this is
the whole point of these talk shows is you get
opinions from people so that you know everyone has different opinions.
(23:25):
But it's not I would say, it's not enough data
out there and not enough film out there to really
make a real hYP you know, hypothesis about this that
he's a good Isaiah's a good player or not. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Well, the stat that I think maybe the texture is
referring to here is so he played the three games,
he lined up the sixty six combined pass block snaps
without giving up pressure. That's that's the stat assigned to Pelzewski.
So whatever you want to believe, pretty good, and that's
pretty and good. That's pretty and good. So that's what
if I remember correctly, what Alfred was saying at the
time was and he was not a big Mike mcglinchy fan,
(23:58):
because I was not.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
That was during foot season. I got to tell you,
I don't remember. I probably was not. I was probably coaching.
You're probably coaching.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Didn't hear it.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
But the comment, well, we would talk a ton because
you knew Alfred did not like Mike McGlinchey, like he
was not a Mike McGlinchey guy. Didn't like him from
the very beginning, and more or less wanted to kind
of be right about some systems.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Some systems, some players fit in some systems better than others.
That's all I'll say about that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, but he again, you know, small sample size, three games,
sixty six snaps in pass pro, zero pressures via true Media,
so that it's like, whatever you take away from that,
if you expand that out to the season, would he
be a guy that didn't give a pressure for the
entire season?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Probably not, But the in the small.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Sample size, you liked what you saw, and that's why
he's a guy that as an undrafted player you're excited
to have here because he's a low cost replacement offensive TACKLEIC.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
That's how you build the depth of your team.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
Yeah, Sow, every team does it, and you got to
be You got to hit in the draft, and you
got to hit in some of your your undrafted as
free agents as well.
Speaker 7 (25:02):
What are you pointing at, Oh, it was to talk
about Cherry Creek's school district. I didn't say that about
the guy at the school in Aurora. Was the guy
that looked like a mummy and came and will try
to like snatch a kid. You remember that left from
last year. The only reason I remember it is because
obviously it was close to my house. That's what I
(25:22):
was like, Oh, that's wicked. Well, no, but about the
about the tackles of the issues, and and honestly, to
give this guy credit. Whenever there's a new tackle, especially
like an undrafted guy or someone that goes in, their
teams are going to attack them, you know what I mean.
So for him to hold up and you said three
games and give up zero pressures, you might have a point.
(25:42):
He might he might be onto something. But it's such
it's such a small sample size that you know, you
can be optimistic about it, but until you play, you know,
the whole season, you really won't know.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Coming back to our conversation about what we can learn
from training camp, and I I actually tend to agree
with you guys, even though we'll come in here and
I'll tell you what I saw a training camp. Well,
Dave will say what he saw a training camp soon
and so forth. I mean, we do get paid to
sort of break down what we see in the moment,
and I think that it's important over the course of
the entirety of training camp, including preseason, before you draw conclusions.
(26:18):
But yeah, I mean, I guess you really don't know
until you're actually playing in games if any of it
makes sense or works, right.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
I think, I mean the way I look at it.
Not everybody can get out to training camp.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
So our job during training camp is to tell people
what happened during today's practice. I think our job is
not to draw any significant conclusions based on what we
watched in a day's practice in training camp in terms
of what a particular player might be able to do
in the regular season.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
And I base that on playing in the league a
long time.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
I saw a bunch of guys that were really good
in training camp and mighty and have made several plays
in a preseason game that it just didn't turn out
that way when the regular season, it's it's a completely
different animal in the regular season in terms of the speed,
how how opposing teams scheme against you.
Speaker 6 (27:18):
Everything is heightened.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
So I just I just don't draw a lot of conclusions,
but I do think I viewed My job is to
tell people, Hey, here's what I saw today. A couple
of nice catches by young Ryan Edwards, the free agent
wide receiver out of Delaware. So you know, those type
things I want to make sure I describe accurately.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, I think, And obviously with training camp, I think
the worst part is that you have to just you
have to find something to talk about every day, even
if it's really nothing special going on. You gotta find
something so then that can create hype.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
About I'm becoming a veteran in talk radio. Well you
know you got to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
It's going to create hype about a player. We're not
necessarily not necessarily doing the greatest thing. They just make
us a splash play every day. But it's just tough
because until you get to that season, until teams starts
scheming you until and the film work is different. You know,
you're actually watching every like especially for me as a
D line, and you're watching every player on the old
(28:20):
line trying to find tails, you do o stuff. Until
you have that type of scout pretty much scouting and
film work done on you, and then you go and perform.
That's a that's a different game, I guess than than
training camp where there's really no film unless you're going
into a new offense. Like last year when we in Cleveland,
(28:40):
we went to Seattle and I know Ryan Grubbs was
the OC there and no one was really sure what
type of offense he was going to run because obviously
not bringing your offense straight from college, and that's when
you're kind of trying to figure it out a little bit,
just so you can kind of just give the guys
an idea of like this is what you'll see. Other
than that, there's not much film work done during train Gas.
(29:02):
We just had a text three zero, three, five and seven.
Was Billy Thompson really a great player? Why did he
get into the Ring of Fame? What qualified him? I
can answer that because I played against Billy.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Billy Billy's older, but Billy was one of the great
safeties to ever play for the Broncos.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
He was drafted.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
In nineteen sixty nine and he played into the eighties.
I think eighty one might have been his last season.
He led the league in punt returns and kickoff returns
the same year. I'm not sure that's ever been done.
But good hitter, smart player, very tough, absolutely is deserving
(29:50):
of being in the Broncos Ring of Fame. And I
would say in a franchise that has been blessed to
have had some great safeties, right, Steve Attwater, Dennis Smith,
John Lynch.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Brian Dawkins.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Well, Brian Dawkins was a great player, but I didn't.
I mean I when I think of Brian Dawkins. I
think at Philadelphia Justin Simmons. Justin Simmons would not be
in the in the group. Justin Simmons was a hell
of a good player, but I mean he would not
to me Dennis Smith, although Dennis I mean Dennis Smith
(30:27):
and Steve Atwater, John Lynch, Nick Ferguson was a really
good player. But I'm talking about guys that are cornerstone
players of the of the history of the franchise.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Billy Thompson would be right there.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
In fact, Billy Thompson might have been the first Goose
Gonsolin maybe, but one of the first great great safeties
in Broncos history.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Well, I believe that Justin Simmons if we had one,
well Justin was here, it would have really helped. It
would have really I agree. And also for him to
have the stats that he had here and lost at
a losing season every season. Yeah, you know, teams are
throwing the ball when they're up all the time, you
know what I mean. So he had these stats before,
(31:11):
so I will just playing with them. I just know
Justin Simmons is one of the best safeties.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
Yeah, He's a different kind of safety than the guys.
He's more like Goose Gonsolin, even though they're from different eras.
I mean, justin to me is the middle of the
field safety one guy that has great hands, smart, I
mean really smart, gets guys lined up right.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
If a ball is thrown in his area, he's gonna
catch it.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
There are some defensive backs that you know don't but yeah,
the other guys I mentioned would be box safeties, guys
that really impose their will physically on a game. And
you could see two or three plays every single game
(31:56):
where those guys would flash man.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Look at Billy Thompson's stats. Holy cow, I'll walk ahead.
It had forty interceptions and three pick sixes. He also
had four fumble recovery touchdowns. And then you mentioned his
return stats which were eye popping where he leg in.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Both yeah, returns and kickoff returns the same ear. I
think it was the same ear.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I got part return yards, yes, but he and he
did kickoff for turnyards per game in his rookie year
twenty eight points which year sixty nine?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yes, you deled it, yeah, perfect.
Speaker 8 (32:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
So for the texture, who's asking that question? GTS, Well,
I gotta say, uh yeah. Even the texture said that
was a spin take right there. Uh, fantastic stuff. Hey
have you missed the parts of the show, including our
conversation about bathroom betigots? Uh, you're definitely gonna want to
(32:52):
go check out the podcast after the fact.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Can't we colorad dot.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Com or on the completely free and totally awesome my
Heart Radio app, which is not redesigned like you have
in your car. You can set us as a preset
that is k as well as KI Sports as a
precess so you never miss anything happening on our program
and on our station. Benjamin all Bright Broncos Country Tonight
in studio, hy Ben, what's going on that much?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Man?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We're text line, by the way, reminds us about TJ.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Ward.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I think Darian Stewart where you put t J. Ward
in Darien Stewart, Dave. Yeah, they're I mean really good players.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
I don't think I don't think Stu got nearly as
as many flowers as he should. Was a was a
big thumper for sure. So yeah, I mean those two
guys now, and I'm trying, I'm trying to be fair
here in Bronco's history with those two guys being the
same class as Steve atwater, Billy Thompson, you know, Sean Lynch,
(33:50):
Dennis Smith.
Speaker 8 (33:51):
No, what's up, They're not even in the Simmons tier.
I put Simmons below them and then below well because
when yeah, Justin, but to see both Stu and TJ.
Ward were completely different safeties than just Justin. If again,
if you want to play single safety high and put
him in the middle of the field, I think he's
(34:12):
a world class safety.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Well, I'm not putting the guy either, one of those
guys on the Kenoi Kennedy level.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
I remember right Arkansas, you want to hit her. Kenoi
Kennedy absolutely was a big hitter and would not survive
in this game today. Yeah, he'd be fine.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
The one I love how the game like, you know,
the NFL will praise these guys, but then there's literally
no way they could play today. He'd been a ray
Lewis Kella.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Kenny would have been negative money every year.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
But we saw what they did the Queen Jackson, that's
you know what I mean, Like that last year with
kaijack they they were running it up well.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Made Kajack look like a saint.
We're on until six o'clock this evening with Broncos Country
tonight coming up.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We got the All Star Game for Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Definitely have some baseball in our minds, especially after last
night's in the home run derby and our color Rockies
drafting Ethan Holiday, and to help us break it all down,
we head out to the KWA Comma Spirit Health Highline
and bringing a very good friend of the program, the
one and only Thomas Harding. Thomas, my friend, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I feel good? I feel clean, taking a little bit
of an All Star break before I lean back into
the second half of what's been a total mess.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
For the Rocky and mess is a good way to
describe it, for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Tell us a little bit about before we get into
the first half and expectations for the second half the draft.
Everybody seems to be very amped about Ethan Holiday. How
quickly do you think that he might even get a
chance to play in the big leagues.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'll tell you what, Jackson Holiday almost came up his
first full year in the miners, and I wouldn't be
surprised if Ethan isn't in that conversation. Aren't he? Because
he is a big, strong, good applet that can hit
some home runs. A lot of those guys making some
major sleets quickly. And if you're the Colorado Rockies and
I was looking at their system, I actually spent some
(01:09):
time with the Double A team last week. Thirteen guys
who were in Double A last year played at some
point with the team this year with the big league team,
and they're going to get more chances. And I'm going
to be surprised that five or six of those Double
A guys also got to get some the majors this year.
So they're moving them through quickly. That's part of the problem.
You're not enough veterans to hold down these positions to
(01:31):
let the younger guys get ready. So he's a holiday.
He could be in the Rockies sooner than you know it.
Could it be next season. I wouldn't rule that out.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Hey, hey, Thomas, so this is Shelby.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Here is here?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I guess my question is, of all the other draft
things and no order in general, who are you most
excited about other than holiday?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Okay, other than ethan holiday? There are a couple that
I'm pretty excited about because of what we've seen from
the Rockies JB. Middleton, the second round pick. I'm really
excited for him. Right hander, kind of shorter than your
prototypical right hand, but his stuff is really good. It's
very well. Nearly took Southern Methodists to the I'm sorry,
(02:15):
other of Mississippi to the College World Series. He's the
guy I'm excited about because he's been through some things,
an injury, some stumps, and it may be the kind
of person work his way through the Rocky system. The
other guy is you know, there are a number of them,
but Cam Milton, who I think third fourth round pick
(02:36):
out of Wake Forest, an incredible athlete. He missed a
lot of times last year because of a soft tissue injury,
but he's the type of athlete that the Rockies haven't had.
Not the biggest guy in the world. He doesn't take
that home run swing, but he can give you a
good debt. He could really run. He's very athletic. I mean,
just the type of guy that when you look through
a batting order, Yeah, you want to have your big bompers,
(02:59):
you want to have to speak guys. You want to
have a guy also that maybe isn't the biggest guy
in the world, but can hit a home run the
opposite way, So he is exciting me.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Thomas, let me ask you just off the draft and
about the Rockies in particular, and you have covered them
for a long time and as well as anybody, and
so I want to ask you, just from a fans perspective,
with the season that the Rockies are having this year, what.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
Do you think, if anything, the front.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Office will do with respect to any kind of changes
once the season is done.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I expect major changes. And the thing that hit me
was when Walker Montfort was promoted to executive vice president,
because while he has worked on the business side, my
understanding is that he is full of newer ideas. Now
the big question will be how much money will he
have to do with actually execute the ideas. My thought
(04:02):
about the Rockies is, and they take a lot of
them sleeves narrows for being behind the times. Part of
it to me is it's a bit of a thin organization.
Where maybe some organizations may have more people working on
a problem, it seems like the Rockies have fewer people working.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
On the problem.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
What I want to see a is what happens at
the top of the baseball operation. Is it just a
general manager right now you have Bille Schmidt or is
there a general manager, but above him, maybe a veteran
baseball person, someone who has been a general manager, negotiated
these contracts before getting here to Colorado and work on
it that way and throughout the organization. That's what I've seen,
(04:43):
is like it seems like they need more help than
just a house bleeding. I'm sure there'll be some changes,
but I would like to see this more help, maybe
a beef up organization.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Tom's Harden joining us from MLB dot Com at Harding
Underscore at Underscore MLB on Twitter. So I mean, again,
we don't know how the rest of the season is
going to play out, whether they'll end up with record
wise being the worst team in baseball history.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
They're certainly on target for that, But how would you.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Sum up the first half and there woes their issues
based on what you thought this season was going to be.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well, it's really interesting. I was actually finishing my mid
term report with him, So I'll have to beat the deadlight,
or if they get as close to the deadlight that
I've blown. But if you look at the Rockies over
the past few years, they were forming to twenty twenty
five as the beginning of something special. But they lost
a bunch of pitchers to Tommy John surgery. A lot
(05:40):
of them that are just not pitching this year, including
Hermy Marquez and Antonio SI's a tell, but I count
at least four or five prospects that should be here.
They had Tommy John surgery.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And also some.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Guys didn't pan out the way they wanted. I mean,
Brendan Rodgers, he was a good player, but was he
one of the leaders. David Dall, he was an All Star,
completely dropped off. So in the beginning they were already
behind him. Then when Ezekiel Tolberg got hurt the start
the season, that that that dumped them into this threatening
the worst team of all time because you already had
(06:13):
tyrostroa hurt. And as much as as much effort as
Chris Bryant put into getting getting healthy, he never did
get healthy. You've got a team that you look all
around the diamond and they're amusing people, and they're putting
out a team with a lot of guys that maybe
are trying to get trying to work their way into
the big leagues, maybe even not ready for the big leagues.
(06:35):
And this is what happens hy Thomas.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Just for me, I guess last question for obviously, trade
deadlines obviously a big deal in baseball, and the Rockies
are obviously going to be sellers and they're not going
to buy. So for you, what who was most likely
to end up going in the trade deadline trade this year?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, and I know the reputation as holding on the guys,
this is not the year to do it. I wouldn't
be surprised if Hermi Marcus and the other pitcher, the
left handed pitcher Alison Gomber with her in the last
year of their contracts, get something for them. Ryan McMahon,
he has some time left on his contract on a
good team. He's an asset as a great defender and
(07:20):
somebody to hit down in the order. He's hitting in
the meat of the order for the Rockies and that's
not working. Also, I would look around the field. I mean,
had a couple of guys out of the bullpen, Jake Burn,
Tyler Kinley, even Jimmy Hergert who's pitch well. Trade some
of those guys and maybe you can help build your system.
But I do want one of these trades, whether it's
one of those guys or whether it's Tyro Estrada or
(07:42):
Mickey Mognac or somebody like that, to get in a
veteran type because there aren't enough veterans, and that's one
of the issues. Very quickly they make these trades. They
may weaken the team right now, but I'll help them
in the future. So they beat the trades and it
assures them of being the worst team ever. Let's look
in two years and see that hasn't helped him to
be any.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Fantastic point, Thomas, always great to catch up with you man,
Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, so that's interesting, and so you know, because yea,
I added Orlando Arcia and Dave.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
We talked about it when it happened.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
We're like, okay, well, this is clearly a team that
does not want to be the worst team in baseball
history when you're adding a guy like that. But now
you're here at the trade deadline and you have some
decisions to make, and you really, you really do need
to be thinking about the future more so than the
president of being the worst team in baseball. It'll be
fascinating to see from a front office standpoint what their
actions do to tell us what they think about that.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
You know, he's probably right when he talks about a
guy like Ryan McMahon. The issue is, you know, if,
of course this would be in hindsight, but he's had
good years offensively, he's been a productive guy.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
You could have made that move last year.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
I mean this year he's sitting low two hundreds, so
I don't know how appealing now. He's a good defensive player,
and maybe, as Thomas suggested, maybe if you hit him
down in the lineup, he gets a little more, he
gets treated a little bit differently from opposing pitchers that
(09:17):
he might hitting where he's hitting. But the thing he
said that, I think if Rockies fans listening to the show,
that would be sort of like, ugh, you serious. But
I think it's probably true. I mean, to make some
of these deals, you make those for the future, but
the short term, the near future, might you know, not
(09:40):
be good. And I'm thinking, man, it hasn't been good
for three straight years.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
I thought he said the right thing.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I thought it was an accurate description of what has
happened in that twenty twenty five was supposed to be
the year that some of these guys sort of started
to break out. That's from the Rockies fans pon effective.
That's why they were able to tolerate twenty twenty four
and twenty twenty three, both seasons they lost more than
one hundred games because they pointed toward this year. And
(10:11):
then as you heard him again correctly illustrate injuries, especially
the starting staff.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
Tovar. And we're sitting here where we're sitting.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
So do you think it's a harder idea and the
harder thing to do to be a veteran player on
a contract on a very bad team or if you
get trade to a good team, being that guy on
a good team as in, is it less pressure for
that player if he's on a team that actually is
competing and you're not the only you know this, think
(10:46):
about it for being a Rockies player right now, you're
one of the one of the worst teams in history.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
I think there's more frustration on a veteran player being
on a team like this, But I think there's more
pressure to a veteran player being on a good team.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
So do you think this frustration if you take that
frustration out and this is more about the riding man.
If they want to end up trading him. Obviously, he's
a good glove and that's what that's what he's really
holding his head on right now because he hasn't he
hasn't really been hitting. So for him, obviously, it would
be great to go to a winning team and go
(11:21):
out there and try and try to win. Do you
think that changes his approach to the plate and does
it actually lead the more hits for him? Does actually
lead the more success for him? Do you think a
change of scenery would actually be good for him?
Speaker 6 (11:35):
I think he would.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
I mean, I think you could make the case that
he'd be a little more focused if he were dealt.
Anytime you get dealt to another team and you go
in and I think you have hyper focus initially because
you're the new guy.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Now.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
I thought what Thomas Hardin said and I alluded to
was also accurate. You know, on another team, you know
he's probably not hitting three or four, he's probably hitting
six or seven. And then you know you're gonna see
different pitches in different situations.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
So maybe that's that helps him.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
We've seen Ryan McMahon be an, you know, an above
average offensive player. I mean, I can't remember exactly was
it last year or the year before. But Ryan McMahon,
you know, hit in the two eighties, I mean, was
a solid offensive contributor. So I don't know what we
attribute what's happened to him this year offensively, But he
(12:31):
last time I looked, he was hitting like two.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Ten, Yeah, to twelve as this moment, forty two, last year,
year before to forty, So he's kind of the year
before to forty six. Really, so I he never hit
two eighty or season fifty four? Is his career high
twenty one?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
You know what?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I I completely had that wrong in my mind. I
thought he had a two seventy season, two eighty season.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But he's been north of twenty home runs for four
straight years, five of the last six, so I mean,
you're right, it's been very productive. I also thought it
was interesting from Thomas a moment ago where he said
he expects major changes. I don't think a lot of
Rockies fans do like regardless of whether they're the worst
team in baseball history or otherwise. I think a lot
of Rockies fans are feeling a little apathetic because they
(13:17):
felt like the Rockies will get to the end of
the season, they'll assess things and maybe they shuffle the
deck chairs or whatever, but in the end, it's going
to be the same organizational structure. But he said, Thomas said,
I know, I expect major changes, and he thought that
the walker montfort move was this sort of a sign
of that.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Well, I mean, they so walker Montford is taking over
for Greg Feesel. Greg Fiesel has been with the team
for party plus years. Yeah, right, and Greg primarily was
on the business side. So I haven't seen it stipulated
(13:54):
in terms of what exactly walker Montford's duties will be.
But I think the question for Rockies fans is, hey,
do we need somebody else to come in and completely
revamp the baseball.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Side of the organization.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
I don't have any idea whether Dick Montford is willing
to do that. We've talked to him. We didn't talk
to him this year, but we talked to him last year.
I asked him that question and they said they had
interviewed two or three candidates. And I'm paraphrasing here, but
he said, frankly, they didn't have They didn't bring any
new ideas that we already didn't have, which I thought
(14:35):
was an interesting I mean, it was it was candid,
but I thought it was an interesting response.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
So I don't ask forward what a year and a half.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Is this the year that Dick decides to completely do
over on the baseball side, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Well, something needs to change because the only way right
now the Rockies are getting anybody in All Star Game
is is from just the rule of every team that
has to have representative. The Rockies have to really just
scrape everything and go from the ground up. So the
goal though, and and that's the thing, being a small
market team, you have to be able to hit or
(15:11):
any free agent you got, you you signed, and and
that's that's what's hurting them the most is the people
they signed are not producing for them. And as a
small market team, that's that kills you. So right there,
you know the Rockies got to figure it out because
you have Chris Brian's contact for how much longer? Oh man?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I mean that one. They probably eventually just move on.
But the contract is what it is. I mean, you
pay that money. You got to pay it, cat, So
it doesn't like impact the kind of players you can
bring in other than you don't want to spend more money.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Well, it does impact because that's the whole. And this
is why, you know, I get it. You know, we're
in Colorado. But that's why I admire the Brewers so much,
because they figured out the perfect formula how to be
a small market team and figure up who you want
to pay. They wouldn't pay Jackson Cheerio last year. And
(16:05):
the kid had never played in the MLB and he's
been a star since he kind of broke out. The
Christian Yellis deal looked like it was going to be
a flop at first because he started, you know, his
average started dropping. But then he kind of has a resurgence,
you know what I mean. You signed Freddy Falter early
to a small deal and he's been one of your
your aces. He's an All star game, right, you know
what I mean. So that's kind of where the Rockies
(16:26):
have to go. You have to hit and and that's
big Ethan Holiday picked it gotta be gotta be a hit.
Anyone see their setup at home. It's it's phenomenal. And
it makes sense of why him and his brother Jackson
become the players that they have because they've been bred
and they they've literally been worked as pro ball players
(16:48):
since they were kids.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, and Jackson's I mean, he's the lead off there
in Baltimore. He's he's a really good player. And yeah,
I mean it was great. I mean even Thomas said
there he could see a path to Ethan coming up fast,
which I think would sort of inject a little bit
of optimism into the franchise, into the fans. You're just
talking about the Brewers because Jacob Misowski is going to
(17:10):
pitch in the All Star Game that I only pitching
twenty five innings of baseball for trying out loud?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
What are we doing? They're trying to be entertaining. Of course,
that's the.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Process.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I think it's hilarious though, because the issue was they
all these rumors are coming out. They asked twelve pitchers
to do it, and they all said no.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Why would you turn down an opportunity to pitch a surgy?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
And then two of the pitchers that did actually get
voted in, they pitched on Saturday, so they're not going
to pitch on three days rest going into this game.
So I get the outrage, but that ms Groowski draws fans,
I think that's all baseball cares about right now, and
that's what the All Star Game for them. Really is
(17:54):
now that you took out that the winners the All
Star Game doesn't determine World Series home advantage. It's just
that's the show it is.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I'm mostly teasing because actually, you know, I love Jacob
Misrowski's because I.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Remember last time I was on he gave up a
Grand Slam and you couldn't wait to tell.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Me, well, he's on my fantasy team. I love this dude.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I was.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
It was commiserating.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I was.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I was reaching out to you to be like this guy,
come on now, I was. I was heartbroken. I was too.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
But hey, those bruise are on a run right now
and he's a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
All right, that's enough bruise tap for one day, five, six,
six nights. Zeros are kay, common spirit health text an
all right, we'll come back to this conversation other side.
But I do want to ask you guys. So we're
talking about for training camp, the things that that fans
and media tend to make a bigger deal of than
that really should be. What is a big deal. They've
got a couple of minutes here, What is a big deal?
What what do we learn or we'll take out of
(18:49):
training camp? From a fan or media's perspective.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
Oh man, that's that's that's a hard one. I'm like Shelby,
I think I think preseason games matter. I didn't say
it was a good question.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
I just said it was.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, you didn't want to say a good question, but
you miant you missed question.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I meant not to say good question. I just want
to put it on the board. Hard question should be
up there to it. Yeah, listen, I'm no, I won't
say anything.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
I think you have to see him playing the preseason
and in a controlled scrimmage environment. You may see some
new guys you're not familiar with from a fans standpoint,
so that may, you know, excite you. Maybe looking at JK.
Dobbins for the first time Broncos fans, Maybe looking at R. J.
Harvey and Pat Bryant and some of the other young
(19:42):
guys and see how they're sort of fitting into the
new world of the NFL.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
But I think you have to see I think you
have to see guys.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
In game like action to really have some sort of
conclusion or draw some sort of conclusion as to.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Hey, what do we have here? Well, I guess my
answer is not just training camp it's ot as, it's
training camp until the pads get on. I don't want
to hear anything about how good a player looks on
the lion or d line.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Oh come on this guy.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I don't want to hear a single thing because it's
a such thing as T shirt warriors, and I'm telling
you I've seen it year in and gear out. You
see guys that pop where you don't have pads on,
and you're like, oh, this guy's want to be a
hell of a player, and then they disappear the minute
of those pads come on, because then we're playing real football.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I know Pat Bryant looks really good t.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And that's another it's I think it's more in the trenches,
but also in the outside, Like it's just it's a
different game without it's seven on seven on pads on,
you know what I mean. But when you turn, when
you put them pads on, it's a whole different game.
And so that's why I always get annoyed when I
hear people talk about, oh, you know, this guy looks
great and ot as, none of that stuff matters. I
(21:00):
also said that none that doesn't matters until you play
somebody other than your own team because you find ways
to manipulate your teammates, and you you've been playing against
them for so long, you you pick up on all
their habits, on how they do certain things, and so
you capitalize on that. But until you go out there,
and especially those joint practices are big too. Until you
(21:20):
go out there and play and practice against somebody other
than your teammates, then you'll see if you're going to
be a player or that. Okay, Ryan, Okay, Ryan, Okay, Ryan.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Ryan five six six Night zero is our kaw Wait
Commas fruit Health text line is Alex Pelchwski a good
tackle that that.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Comes from a texture who and by the way, I
think we misidentified it wasn't Alex Forsy. It was Alex
forthite sythe not Alex paul Cheski who got tossed in
the in the Kansas City field goal attempt, Yeah Shelby.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
And then the texture goes on to.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Talk about the big Al had said that Alex Poulcheski
did a great job when he played right tackle. Big
Al said there was no drop off whatsoever, and it
might have been an upgrade. So why are you guys
dissing on him?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Now?
Speaker 5 (22:20):
I answered, I said. All I said was the Broncos
I think might be in the market for. I didn't
say tackle. I said a veteran offensive lineman that can
come in and give them depth at the cutdown date
in training camp. And so the textter said yes or no,
is Alex Poulchski a good tackle? I'll be honest about it.
(22:41):
I haven't studied Alex Paulcheski. I think he's an interesting
young guy. I think he's a good athlete. So I
do think there's some upside with him. But I'd have
to go back. I could sit here and say yes
and just end the discussion, but that it would be
a tad bit disingenuous. So I mean, did you play
have you played against him or seeing him enough on tape?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Now you have a Okay, I know I'm not not
enough to really give a good a good opinion about it.
But what I would say is, you know, whoever the
texture is Big Al's not here right now, so how
do I know what Big House said? Yeah, this is
the whole point of these talk shows is you get
opinions from people so that you know everyone has different opinions.
(23:25):
But it's not I would say, it's not enough data
out there and not enough film out there to really
make a real hYP you know, hypothesis about this that
he's a good Isaiah's a good player or not. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Well, the stat that I think maybe the texture is
referring to here is so he played the three games,
he lined up the sixty six combined pass block snaps
without giving up pressure. That's that's the stat assigned to Pelzewski.
So whatever you want to believe, pretty good, and that's
pretty and good. That's pretty and good. So that's what
if I remember correctly, what Alfred was saying at the
time was and he was not a big Mike mcglinchy fan,
(23:58):
because I was not.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
That was during foot season. I got to tell you,
I don't remember. I probably was not. I was probably coaching.
You're probably coaching.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Didn't hear it.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
But the comment, well, we would talk a ton because
you knew Alfred did not like Mike McGlinchey, like he
was not a Mike McGlinchey guy. Didn't like him from
the very beginning, and more or less wanted to kind
of be right about some systems.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Some systems, some players fit in some systems better than others.
That's all I'll say about that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, but he again, you know, small sample size, three games,
sixty six snaps in pass pro, zero pressures via true Media,
so that it's like, whatever you take away from that,
if you expand that out to the season, would he
be a guy that didn't give a pressure for the
entire season?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Probably not, But the in the small.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Sample size, you liked what you saw, and that's why
he's a guy that as an undrafted player you're excited
to have here because he's a low cost replacement offensive TACKLEIC.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
That's how you build the depth of your team.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
Yeah, Sow, every team does it, and you got to
be You got to hit in the draft, and you
got to hit in some of your your undrafted as
free agents as well.
Speaker 7 (25:02):
What are you pointing at, Oh, it was to talk
about Cherry Creek's school district. I didn't say that about
the guy at the school in Aurora. Was the guy
that looked like a mummy and came and will try
to like snatch a kid. You remember that left from
last year. The only reason I remember it is because
obviously it was close to my house. That's what I
(25:22):
was like, Oh, that's wicked. Well, no, but about the
about the tackles of the issues, and and honestly, to
give this guy credit. Whenever there's a new tackle, especially
like an undrafted guy or someone that goes in, their
teams are going to attack them, you know what I mean.
So for him to hold up and you said three
games and give up zero pressures, you might have a point.
(25:42):
He might he might be onto something. But it's such
it's such a small sample size that you know, you
can be optimistic about it, but until you play, you know,
the whole season, you really won't know.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Coming back to our conversation about what we can learn
from training camp, and I I actually tend to agree
with you guys, even though we'll come in here and
I'll tell you what I saw a training camp. Well,
Dave will say what he saw a training camp soon
and so forth. I mean, we do get paid to
sort of break down what we see in the moment,
and I think that it's important over the course of
the entirety of training camp, including preseason, before you draw conclusions.
(26:18):
But yeah, I mean, I guess you really don't know
until you're actually playing in games if any of it
makes sense or works, right.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
I think, I mean the way I look at it.
Not everybody can get out to training camp.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
So our job during training camp is to tell people
what happened during today's practice. I think our job is
not to draw any significant conclusions based on what we
watched in a day's practice in training camp in terms
of what a particular player might be able to do
in the regular season.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
And I base that on playing in the league a
long time.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
I saw a bunch of guys that were really good
in training camp and mighty and have made several plays
in a preseason game that it just didn't turn out
that way when the regular season, it's it's a completely
different animal in the regular season in terms of the speed,
how how opposing teams scheme against you.
Speaker 6 (27:18):
Everything is heightened.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
So I just I just don't draw a lot of conclusions,
but I do think I viewed My job is to
tell people, Hey, here's what I saw today. A couple
of nice catches by young Ryan Edwards, the free agent
wide receiver out of Delaware. So you know, those type
things I want to make sure I describe accurately.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, I think, And obviously with training camp, I think
the worst part is that you have to just you
have to find something to talk about every day, even
if it's really nothing special going on. You gotta find
something so then that can create hype.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
About I'm becoming a veteran in talk radio. Well you
know you got to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
It's going to create hype about a player. We're not
necessarily not necessarily doing the greatest thing. They just make
us a splash play every day. But it's just tough
because until you get to that season, until teams starts
scheming you until and the film work is different. You know,
you're actually watching every like especially for me as a
D line, and you're watching every player on the old
(28:20):
line trying to find tails, you do o stuff. Until
you have that type of scout pretty much scouting and
film work done on you, and then you go and perform.
That's a that's a different game, I guess than than
training camp where there's really no film unless you're going
into a new offense. Like last year when we in Cleveland,
(28:40):
we went to Seattle and I know Ryan Grubbs was
the OC there and no one was really sure what
type of offense he was going to run because obviously
not bringing your offense straight from college, and that's when
you're kind of trying to figure it out a little bit,
just so you can kind of just give the guys
an idea of like this is what you'll see. Other
than that, there's not much film work done during train Gas.
(29:02):
We just had a text three zero, three, five and seven.
Was Billy Thompson really a great player? Why did he
get into the Ring of Fame? What qualified him? I
can answer that because I played against Billy.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Billy Billy's older, but Billy was one of the great
safeties to ever play for the Broncos.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
He was drafted.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
In nineteen sixty nine and he played into the eighties.
I think eighty one might have been his last season.
He led the league in punt returns and kickoff returns
the same year. I'm not sure that's ever been done.
But good hitter, smart player, very tough, absolutely is deserving
(29:50):
of being in the Broncos Ring of Fame. And I
would say in a franchise that has been blessed to
have had some great safeties, right, Steve Attwater, Dennis Smith,
John Lynch.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Brian Dawkins.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Well, Brian Dawkins was a great player, but I didn't.
I mean I when I think of Brian Dawkins. I
think at Philadelphia Justin Simmons. Justin Simmons would not be
in the in the group. Justin Simmons was a hell
of a good player, but I mean he would not
to me Dennis Smith, although Dennis I mean Dennis Smith
(30:27):
and Steve Atwater, John Lynch, Nick Ferguson was a really
good player. But I'm talking about guys that are cornerstone
players of the of the history of the franchise.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Billy Thompson would be right there.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
In fact, Billy Thompson might have been the first Goose
Gonsolin maybe, but one of the first great great safeties
in Broncos history.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Well, I believe that Justin Simmons if we had one,
well Justin was here, it would have really helped. It
would have really I agree. And also for him to
have the stats that he had here and lost at
a losing season every season. Yeah, you know, teams are
throwing the ball when they're up all the time, you
know what I mean. So he had these stats before,
(31:11):
so I will just playing with them. I just know
Justin Simmons is one of the best safeties.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
Yeah, He's a different kind of safety than the guys.
He's more like Goose Gonsolin, even though they're from different eras.
I mean, justin to me is the middle of the
field safety one guy that has great hands, smart, I
mean really smart, gets guys lined up right.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
If a ball is thrown in his area, he's gonna
catch it.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
There are some defensive backs that you know don't but yeah,
the other guys I mentioned would be box safeties, guys
that really impose their will physically on a game. And
you could see two or three plays every single game
(31:56):
where those guys would flash man.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Look at Billy Thompson's stats. Holy cow, I'll walk ahead.
It had forty interceptions and three pick sixes. He also
had four fumble recovery touchdowns. And then you mentioned his
return stats which were eye popping where he leg in.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Both yeah, returns and kickoff returns the same ear. I
think it was the same ear.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I got part return yards, yes, but he and he
did kickoff for turnyards per game in his rookie year
twenty eight points which year sixty nine?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yes, you deled it, yeah, perfect.
Speaker 8 (32:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
So for the texture, who's asking that question? GTS, Well,
I gotta say, uh yeah. Even the texture said that
was a spin take right there. Uh, fantastic stuff. Hey
have you missed the parts of the show, including our
conversation about bathroom betigots? Uh, you're definitely gonna want to
(32:52):
go check out the podcast after the fact.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Can't we colorad dot.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Com or on the completely free and totally awesome my
Heart Radio app, which is not redesigned like you have
in your car. You can set us as a preset
that is k as well as KI Sports as a
precess so you never miss anything happening on our program
and on our station. Benjamin all Bright Broncos Country Tonight
in studio, hy Ben, what's going on that much?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Man?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We're text line, by the way, reminds us about TJ.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Ward.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I think Darian Stewart where you put t J. Ward
in Darien Stewart, Dave. Yeah, they're I mean really good players.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
I don't think I don't think Stu got nearly as
as many flowers as he should. Was a was a
big thumper for sure. So yeah, I mean those two
guys now, and I'm trying, I'm trying to be fair
here in Bronco's history with those two guys being the
same class as Steve atwater, Billy Thompson, you know, Sean Lynch,
(33:50):
Dennis Smith.
Speaker 8 (33:51):
No, what's up, They're not even in the Simmons tier.
I put Simmons below them and then below well because
when yeah, Justin, but to see both Stu and TJ.
Ward were completely different safeties than just Justin. If again,
if you want to play single safety high and put
him in the middle of the field, I think he's
(34:12):
a world class safety.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Well, I'm not putting the guy either, one of those
guys on the Kenoi Kennedy level.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
I remember right Arkansas, you want to hit her. Kenoi
Kennedy absolutely was a big hitter and would not survive
in this game today. Yeah, he'd be fine.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
The one I love how the game like, you know,
the NFL will praise these guys, but then there's literally
no way they could play today. He'd been a ray
Lewis Kella.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Kenny would have been negative money every year.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
But we saw what they did the Queen Jackson, that's
you know what I mean, Like that last year with
kaijack they they were running it up well.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Made Kajack look like a saint.
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