May 9, 2026 • 17 mins
Sometimes, for those living paycheck to paycheck, just a couple extra hundred dollars a month can make a major difference when it comes to quality of life and staying afloat. The city of Salem teamed up with UpTogether and Salem State University to run an experiment: what would happen if dozens of lower-income residents and families received an extra $500 each month for a year, no questions asked? Early analysis shows encouraging results. Mayor Domenic Pangallo and Professor Thomas Piñeros Shields from the North Shore Policy Lab join the show this week to share what they learned.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend.
Each week right here we come together, we talk about
all the topics important to you and the place where
you live. Thanks again for tuning in this week. I'm
Nicole Davis. Last year, the city of Salem rolled out
a pilot program called Uplift Salem, and it was very straightforward.
They chose one hundred residents or families, gave them five
(00:28):
hundred dollars a month for an entire year, and then
saw what happened. It's all tied to the concept of
something called guaranteed basic income. This is an idea that's
been tested in places like Somerville and Chelsea in the
past with success, but it's certainly an idea that's not
without pushback. Critics say it could convince people to work
less or not work at all. Others say it shouldn't
be up to the government to pay cash for people
(00:49):
to get by, and others say they just can't trust
that people will spend it in the right way. Instead,
they're worried it would go to further addictions or personal issues.
The Salem program wanted to see if any of them
was true, so they teamed up with Salem State University
to track how it all went. The data is in
and so far they say it looks encouraging. Let's break
it down a bit now. Mayor Dominic Pangalo is on
(01:11):
the show with us, so as Thomas Pinero Shields. He
is one of the professors who worked on this project.
He's also the founding director of the North Shore Policy Lab.
So it's great to have you both here, Mayor to start,
give us a bit more insight if you could, about
the idea for the program itself and how it all
came together.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, I am proud to be a member of Mayor's
Through Guaranteed Basic Income. It's a nationwide coalition of mayors
and county officials across the country that believe the idea
of direct cash assistance and guarantee basic income is a
principle that can really help lift people out of poverty,
empower communities to grow their economy and to provide access
(01:50):
to employment, to provide assistance with childcare, and really strengthen
us from the ground up as a country. So we
had the opportunity to add to a growing body of
work trying to demonstrate the efficacy of these kinds of programs,
and with the American Rescue Plan Act funding that we
had received during the Biden administration, we directed a portion
(02:13):
of that towards this program to do a one year
pilot modeled after some of the successful pilot programs have
been done in other communities around the country, to add
some additional research to it, but also to provide one
hundred of our most vulnerable neighbors here in Salem with
some additional cash assistance as.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
They struggle with You might hear some people say, wait
a minute, universal basic income. The government's paying for me
to get by. People aren't going to go to work.
You know, there's a lot of pushback against programs like this.
Have you heard any of that? And why do you
think that sort of stigma remains when it comes to ubi.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, we certainly heard some of that.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I think, look, you know, we've decided that there's not
going to be a ceiling on wealth in this nation,
and surely we should agree that there should be a floor.
You know, we don't ask questions or get a second
glance to the notion of substantial tax breaks for corporations
in the largest from taxpayers that flow to some of
the wealthiest in the country. So to provide you know,
a struggling single mother or somebody who's trying to fix
(03:15):
their cars so they can get to work and add
to the economy of our communities with five hundred dollars
is not, I think an unreasonable thing to provide to them,
and to say we're going to do it in a
way that doesn't have the stigma of saying you need
to prove to us how you're spending every cent of that,
because we're not asking the people that receive some of
the greatest largest from the taxpayers to do the same thing.
(03:36):
And I think, you know, as Professor Pinier Shields can attest,
we saw in our data very similar findings from what
other pilots that have experimented with this to fout, which
is that people.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Don't reduce the amount they're working.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
In fact, it helps them make ends meet, to provide
financial stability, It helps reduce some of the anxiety that
comes from financial stress. But they also are able to
work more, they can get to work, they can provide
childcare so they can get to their jobs. They're not
getting by on five hundred dollars in direct cashistants, but
it's providing that assistance.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
That does close the gap.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Right now, two and three Americans don't have enough savings
to cover a five.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Hundred dollars emergency.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
One hundred and thirty four thousand families in America that
six sales worth of families each year are pushed.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Into poverty by the cost of childcare alone.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So we don't think it's unreasonable to say we're going
to provide a little bit of assistance tyle and make
it possible for them to live and strengthen our communities.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So Professor, talk to us then about how all this works.
You know, how do you roll out a pilot program
like this, who do you pick? How do you go
about that? Give us a bit of the nitty gritty here.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
I want to sort of acknowledge that we work on
this in a partnership with both the City of Salem
and an organization called Up Together, And so the Salem
State University, my colleague Saramore in the Department of Sociology,
and I were evaluating the research that we were collecting
as part of the ongo program. So the program Up
(05:02):
Together came in to work with the city and we
opened up a a call for applicants who met the
criteria to be part of the program. The program said
that you had to live in Salem, you had to
be over age eighteen, you had to have an income
(05:23):
at or below the US poverty line, And so we
had an overwhelming number of applicants back in October of
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Within i want.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
To say, forty eight hours they closed the portal. There
were only one hundred households who were going to receive
the five hundred dollars a month for a year, and
they had close to four hundred applicants within that forty
eight hour. So that's the first step is having an
(05:56):
applicant pool. For our study, we selected two groups from
that the up together randomly selected the participant group who
received the funds over the one year period, and then
randomly selected another comparison group who agreed to participate in
a set of surveys. Three surveys over the course of
the year, and three sets of interviews which took place
(06:20):
at three months six months, and now we just finished
the last round of interviews three and a half months
after the program ended. So our study is trying to
use the mixed methods approach to understand both the numbers.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And the stories.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
We want to know both the statistics around what changed
over the year that people were in the program and beyond,
as well as hear the stories of the participants, which
have been really powerful. And we've conducted three rounds of
these interviews and sometimes with the same folks, and so
started to get to know residents.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
In our community.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, then tell us a little bit about the results
here that you've found. Now that all of this is
wrapped up, I guess some of the key elements. What
my biggest question is, did it actually help.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
It's funny when I started doing this research project and
would tell people about it, so many people came to
me and said, you know, why do you have to
continue to study.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
We've had all these studies around the country.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
We know it works.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
And what I sort of responded to them is, well, actually,
not everyone does know it works, and we've had a
crisis of benefits and also not enough conversations. I think
about people in poverty for a long time. It takes
a courageous leader like Mayor Pangalo to be willing to
put forth a program like this and to receive what
(07:46):
you know, we know are going to be some critics.
So in terms of the results, these are the early
results that we've been looking at at this point we've
received the survey results were primarily what you saw in
this first round of reports. The final court that is
comprehensive for both the all of the interviews which we
just finished and the and the surveys will be done
(08:07):
by June. Okay, But our overall findings right at this
point preliminary, but they're pretty they're consistent with what the
the field has has noticed is that the overwhelming participants
have been satisfied. They attribute high levels of this program
(08:29):
exceeding their expectations, so are greater than expected impact on
their quality of life, on their overall on their housing,
and on their health. We also saw no change in employment, uh,
meaning that participants were not working any less, but they
also weren't you know. They also didn't feel like this
catapult to them to change jobs. The job market. The
(08:51):
labor market is more complex we think then just this
this one year program.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Sure we did see.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
A sense of self efficacy, overall life satisfaction, greater sense
of control, and people participating more in their communities, which
is one of the factors that we were a little
bit surprised at because there's been mixed results in the
larger field around the extent to which participants feel more
connected to their community. But I think given Salem's robust
(09:21):
in infrastructure of support, there were many ways for them
to connect. So it felt it felt really great to
see and we you know, we see this as we
know that local governments play a really important role in
shaping people's life choices, life chances, and the sociological literature
has shown this over and over again that where you
(09:44):
live really does matter. So that's that's been part of
the really exciting part about being part of this research project.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Mayor, this has got to be great news for you
because you mentioned going into this you were a proponent
of UBI. You are a proponent of UBI, and seeing
these results, I mean, what do you take away from this.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's very validating both.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I mean, the data is certainly validating on a larger
scale around the ability of these programs to really change
people's lives for the better, make a positive difference in
their daily lives. But the anecdotes as well, you know,
the feedback that we've been hearing directly from program participants
about how they use it, not just to buy food,
but to pay off debts, fixed cars, use public transportation.
Someone to you was taking classes so they could actually
(10:26):
get a better paying job with it, you know, being
able to transport their child to medical mental health appointments.
You know, there's you know, a multitude of ways that
that extra small amount of money can make a huge
difference in somebody's daily life. And that was really powerful
to me. You know, I was heartened to see that
the data is kind of upholding what we know from
(10:48):
the other studies, but to also hear that, you know,
these people who are you know, my constituents, my neighbors,
are also having positive change in their in their life anecdotally,
is just was really me.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I look forward to the future then, because I think
about what comes next. You had American Rescue Plan money
connected to this pilot program. Do you plan on maybe
moving forward with another pilot in the future if this
was so beneficial and so helpful, I mean, what comes
after this?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think you know, Ryan, Now, in Massachusetts, municipal budgets
are very very constrained, as everybody like the affordability crisis
that I think is also driving interest in programs like this.
For families is affecting cities and towns as well, So
absent I think larger action from a state or federal level,
it's hard to see these programs becoming permanent and expansive
(11:36):
and far reaching, but they ought to be.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I think the more studies that we can.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Provide with data to our partners at the state and
federal level demonstrating the effectiveness of these types of approaches.
You know, we saw it during COVID with a lot
of the direct relief that went to people during a
time of crisis. We know what works. We know it
works during time of crisis. We know it works now.
And I think when we're ready, when our state and
federal parkers are ready to stand up something at a
(12:02):
larger level, communities like Salem are ready to partner with
them in making it happen.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And Professor, tell me how this study is helping in
your work moving forward. I mean, obviously this is right
up your rally. So what did you take away from this?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
So one of the things I study, I'm a political
sociologist by background, and I study the intersection of people
and new and policies. And there's been a retrenchment over
the past forty years, a clawing back of welfare programs
going back to the eighties and nineties. And one of
the things that's really powerful about this is the power
(12:37):
of cash based programs to change lives, giving people the
freedom and autonomy and frankly, the dignity to make choices
about their own lives. And I think that that's incredibly powerful.
I think from a policy point of view, just echoing
the challenge across the board comes to where will the
(12:58):
money come from to enact these kind of programs? I'm confident,
I feel really, I feel it's really important to elevate
the conversation to once again talk about people in poverty
for a long time. I mean, I listened to the
past presidential election debates in the past twenty years, and
(13:20):
you barely hear about poverty. Hear about the middle class,
you may hear about people who are homeless, but you
don't hear about poverty enough, I think, and so in
you know, elevating that debate, debate, or that conversation or
you know, the potential for policies then opens up as
we set the agenda around issues of poverty. So that
(13:41):
would be in terms of my work, in terms of
understanding poverty better and in terms of racing there's I
think there's been growing interest in this among among the
field and policy and sociology and other scholarship.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
The state of America right now where you have a
growing chasm between the haves and have nots, you know,
a major change and shift in American economics, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I look at Matthew Desmond's book Poverty in America, and
one of his points is that over the past fifty years,
since the War on Poverty, the United States government, federal
government has been spending more and more money on poverty,
on poverty programs, even per capital, but it's not getting
to the people who need it, so unlike a cash
(14:23):
based program where people are.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Able to.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Able to choose how they spend their own money. There's
a lot of programs, there's a lot of supports, there's
focus groups, there's training programs, all of which many of
which do good work. But these are places where money
gets siphoned off that don't support people directly. I think
cash based programs are a more efficient way even of
addressing issues of poverty, and there was a time when
(14:52):
this was seen as a bipartisan approach to addressing poverty,
I think at the political level anyway, at the policy level.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
To be again, there's also i think, not just the
issue of the individual lives, but also as an investment
in the community about avoided future costs. Right, So we
know that when we have these types of programs that
provide interventions to people support them, particularly families with children,
you know you have avoided future costs.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So if it's six thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
For a year for a basic income payment to somebody,
that avoids something that is, you know, the cost of
a shelter bed which is twice as much in America
down the road because you've provided the path for housing stability,
or the cost of incarceration which is ten times as much.
You provided an opportunity for somebody to have the economic
(15:38):
growth and success and stability that provides them with the
opportunity in life that avoids that future cost. So when
we say it's an investment in our community, it's not
just about the five hundred dollars being provided to that family.
It's about the avoided future costs that come from the
social conditions that can result when you don't invest in people.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Professor, how can people find out in June. I guess
the basics the reporter out now, but the whole kit
and kaboodle is coming out in June. Where can people
connect with the report and find everywhere or everything that
comes along with it.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
So when the final report is released, we will be
presenting it first to our partners in the City of Salem,
and then I presume we'll have another release of some
kind for the full report. We as a state public university,
make our final reports available. We will the Northrop Policy Lab,
which I started here at Salem State University a year
(16:30):
and a half ago. We're just finalizing our website. We're
just launching it like any you know, in the next
week or so.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Okay, so we only.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Started last spring and we're now officially and so we're
looking to have a website. We'll be able to host
all the past reports that we've we produced as well,
so people will be able to access that.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, good to know, and mayor if people want to
find out more about the help that the City of
Salem has for constituents, all the programs you've got going on,
how can they connect with this?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Go to SALEMMA dot gov and all the information about
the services programs our office offers, and all the city
departments that provide assistance to our community can be found Salema.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Dot go beautiful easy enough. All right, thank you both
for your time. Gentlemen, this is really good information and
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
A happy Mother's Day weekend if you celebrate, Hope you
have a safe and healthy one, and join us again
next week for another edition of the show. I'm Nicole
Davis from WBZ News Radio on iHeartRadio.
From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend.
Each week right here we come together, we talk about
all the topics important to you and the place where
you live. Thanks again for tuning in this week. I'm
Nicole Davis. Last year, the city of Salem rolled out
a pilot program called Uplift Salem, and it was very straightforward.
They chose one hundred residents or families, gave them five
(00:28):
hundred dollars a month for an entire year, and then
saw what happened. It's all tied to the concept of
something called guaranteed basic income. This is an idea that's
been tested in places like Somerville and Chelsea in the
past with success, but it's certainly an idea that's not
without pushback. Critics say it could convince people to work
less or not work at all. Others say it shouldn't
be up to the government to pay cash for people
(00:49):
to get by, and others say they just can't trust
that people will spend it in the right way. Instead,
they're worried it would go to further addictions or personal issues.
The Salem program wanted to see if any of them
was true, so they teamed up with Salem State University
to track how it all went. The data is in
and so far they say it looks encouraging. Let's break
it down a bit now. Mayor Dominic Pangalo is on
(01:11):
the show with us, so as Thomas Pinero Shields. He
is one of the professors who worked on this project.
He's also the founding director of the North Shore Policy Lab.
So it's great to have you both here, Mayor to start,
give us a bit more insight if you could, about
the idea for the program itself and how it all
came together.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, I am proud to be a member of Mayor's
Through Guaranteed Basic Income. It's a nationwide coalition of mayors
and county officials across the country that believe the idea
of direct cash assistance and guarantee basic income is a
principle that can really help lift people out of poverty,
empower communities to grow their economy and to provide access
(01:50):
to employment, to provide assistance with childcare, and really strengthen
us from the ground up as a country. So we
had the opportunity to add to a growing body of
work trying to demonstrate the efficacy of these kinds of programs,
and with the American Rescue Plan Act funding that we
had received during the Biden administration, we directed a portion
(02:13):
of that towards this program to do a one year
pilot modeled after some of the successful pilot programs have
been done in other communities around the country, to add
some additional research to it, but also to provide one
hundred of our most vulnerable neighbors here in Salem with
some additional cash assistance as.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
They struggle with You might hear some people say, wait
a minute, universal basic income. The government's paying for me
to get by. People aren't going to go to work.
You know, there's a lot of pushback against programs like this.
Have you heard any of that? And why do you
think that sort of stigma remains when it comes to ubi.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, we certainly heard some of that.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I think, look, you know, we've decided that there's not
going to be a ceiling on wealth in this nation,
and surely we should agree that there should be a floor.
You know, we don't ask questions or get a second
glance to the notion of substantial tax breaks for corporations
in the largest from taxpayers that flow to some of
the wealthiest in the country. So to provide you know,
a struggling single mother or somebody who's trying to fix
(03:15):
their cars so they can get to work and add
to the economy of our communities with five hundred dollars
is not, I think an unreasonable thing to provide to them,
and to say we're going to do it in a
way that doesn't have the stigma of saying you need
to prove to us how you're spending every cent of that,
because we're not asking the people that receive some of
the greatest largest from the taxpayers to do the same thing.
(03:36):
And I think, you know, as Professor Pinier Shields can attest,
we saw in our data very similar findings from what
other pilots that have experimented with this to fout, which
is that people.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Don't reduce the amount they're working.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
In fact, it helps them make ends meet, to provide
financial stability, It helps reduce some of the anxiety that
comes from financial stress. But they also are able to
work more, they can get to work, they can provide
childcare so they can get to their jobs. They're not
getting by on five hundred dollars in direct cashistants, but
it's providing that assistance.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
That does close the gap.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Right now, two and three Americans don't have enough savings
to cover a five.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Hundred dollars emergency.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
One hundred and thirty four thousand families in America that
six sales worth of families each year are pushed.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Into poverty by the cost of childcare alone.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So we don't think it's unreasonable to say we're going
to provide a little bit of assistance tyle and make
it possible for them to live and strengthen our communities.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So Professor, talk to us then about how all this works.
You know, how do you roll out a pilot program
like this, who do you pick? How do you go
about that? Give us a bit of the nitty gritty here.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
I want to sort of acknowledge that we work on
this in a partnership with both the City of Salem
and an organization called Up Together, And so the Salem
State University, my colleague Saramore in the Department of Sociology,
and I were evaluating the research that we were collecting
as part of the ongo program. So the program Up
(05:02):
Together came in to work with the city and we
opened up a a call for applicants who met the
criteria to be part of the program. The program said
that you had to live in Salem, you had to
be over age eighteen, you had to have an income
(05:23):
at or below the US poverty line, And so we
had an overwhelming number of applicants back in October of
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Within i want.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
To say, forty eight hours they closed the portal. There
were only one hundred households who were going to receive
the five hundred dollars a month for a year, and
they had close to four hundred applicants within that forty
eight hour. So that's the first step is having an
(05:56):
applicant pool. For our study, we selected two groups from
that the up together randomly selected the participant group who
received the funds over the one year period, and then
randomly selected another comparison group who agreed to participate in
a set of surveys. Three surveys over the course of
the year, and three sets of interviews which took place
(06:20):
at three months six months, and now we just finished
the last round of interviews three and a half months
after the program ended. So our study is trying to
use the mixed methods approach to understand both the numbers.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And the stories.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
We want to know both the statistics around what changed
over the year that people were in the program and beyond,
as well as hear the stories of the participants, which
have been really powerful. And we've conducted three rounds of
these interviews and sometimes with the same folks, and so
started to get to know residents.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
In our community.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, then tell us a little bit about the results
here that you've found. Now that all of this is
wrapped up, I guess some of the key elements. What
my biggest question is, did it actually help.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
It's funny when I started doing this research project and
would tell people about it, so many people came to
me and said, you know, why do you have to
continue to study.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
We've had all these studies around the country.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
We know it works.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
And what I sort of responded to them is, well, actually,
not everyone does know it works, and we've had a
crisis of benefits and also not enough conversations. I think
about people in poverty for a long time. It takes
a courageous leader like Mayor Pangalo to be willing to
put forth a program like this and to receive what
(07:46):
you know, we know are going to be some critics.
So in terms of the results, these are the early
results that we've been looking at at this point we've
received the survey results were primarily what you saw in
this first round of reports. The final court that is
comprehensive for both the all of the interviews which we
just finished and the and the surveys will be done
(08:07):
by June. Okay, But our overall findings right at this
point preliminary, but they're pretty they're consistent with what the
the field has has noticed is that the overwhelming participants
have been satisfied. They attribute high levels of this program
(08:29):
exceeding their expectations, so are greater than expected impact on
their quality of life, on their overall on their housing,
and on their health. We also saw no change in employment, uh,
meaning that participants were not working any less, but they
also weren't you know. They also didn't feel like this
catapult to them to change jobs. The job market. The
(08:51):
labor market is more complex we think then just this
this one year program.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Sure we did see.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
A sense of self efficacy, overall life satisfaction, greater sense
of control, and people participating more in their communities, which
is one of the factors that we were a little
bit surprised at because there's been mixed results in the
larger field around the extent to which participants feel more
connected to their community. But I think given Salem's robust
(09:21):
in infrastructure of support, there were many ways for them
to connect. So it felt it felt really great to
see and we you know, we see this as we
know that local governments play a really important role in
shaping people's life choices, life chances, and the sociological literature
has shown this over and over again that where you
(09:44):
live really does matter. So that's that's been part of
the really exciting part about being part of this research project.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Mayor, this has got to be great news for you
because you mentioned going into this you were a proponent
of UBI. You are a proponent of UBI, and seeing
these results, I mean, what do you take away from this.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's very validating both.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I mean, the data is certainly validating on a larger
scale around the ability of these programs to really change
people's lives for the better, make a positive difference in
their daily lives. But the anecdotes as well, you know,
the feedback that we've been hearing directly from program participants
about how they use it, not just to buy food,
but to pay off debts, fixed cars, use public transportation.
Someone to you was taking classes so they could actually
(10:26):
get a better paying job with it, you know, being
able to transport their child to medical mental health appointments.
You know, there's you know, a multitude of ways that
that extra small amount of money can make a huge
difference in somebody's daily life. And that was really powerful
to me. You know, I was heartened to see that
the data is kind of upholding what we know from
(10:48):
the other studies, but to also hear that, you know,
these people who are you know, my constituents, my neighbors,
are also having positive change in their in their life anecdotally,
is just was really me.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I look forward to the future then, because I think
about what comes next. You had American Rescue Plan money
connected to this pilot program. Do you plan on maybe
moving forward with another pilot in the future if this
was so beneficial and so helpful, I mean, what comes
after this?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think you know, Ryan, Now, in Massachusetts, municipal budgets
are very very constrained, as everybody like the affordability crisis
that I think is also driving interest in programs like this.
For families is affecting cities and towns as well, So
absent I think larger action from a state or federal level,
it's hard to see these programs becoming permanent and expansive
(11:36):
and far reaching, but they ought to be.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I think the more studies that we can.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Provide with data to our partners at the state and
federal level demonstrating the effectiveness of these types of approaches.
You know, we saw it during COVID with a lot
of the direct relief that went to people during a
time of crisis. We know what works. We know it
works during time of crisis. We know it works now.
And I think when we're ready, when our state and
federal parkers are ready to stand up something at a
(12:02):
larger level, communities like Salem are ready to partner with
them in making it happen.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And Professor, tell me how this study is helping in
your work moving forward. I mean, obviously this is right
up your rally. So what did you take away from this?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
So one of the things I study, I'm a political
sociologist by background, and I study the intersection of people
and new and policies. And there's been a retrenchment over
the past forty years, a clawing back of welfare programs
going back to the eighties and nineties. And one of
the things that's really powerful about this is the power
(12:37):
of cash based programs to change lives, giving people the
freedom and autonomy and frankly, the dignity to make choices
about their own lives. And I think that that's incredibly powerful.
I think from a policy point of view, just echoing
the challenge across the board comes to where will the
(12:58):
money come from to enact these kind of programs? I'm confident,
I feel really, I feel it's really important to elevate
the conversation to once again talk about people in poverty
for a long time. I mean, I listened to the
past presidential election debates in the past twenty years, and
(13:20):
you barely hear about poverty. Hear about the middle class,
you may hear about people who are homeless, but you
don't hear about poverty enough, I think, and so in
you know, elevating that debate, debate, or that conversation or
you know, the potential for policies then opens up as
we set the agenda around issues of poverty. So that
(13:41):
would be in terms of my work, in terms of
understanding poverty better and in terms of racing there's I
think there's been growing interest in this among among the
field and policy and sociology and other scholarship.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
The state of America right now where you have a
growing chasm between the haves and have nots, you know,
a major change and shift in American economics, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I look at Matthew Desmond's book Poverty in America, and
one of his points is that over the past fifty years,
since the War on Poverty, the United States government, federal
government has been spending more and more money on poverty,
on poverty programs, even per capital, but it's not getting
to the people who need it, so unlike a cash
(14:23):
based program where people are.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Able to.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Able to choose how they spend their own money. There's
a lot of programs, there's a lot of supports, there's
focus groups, there's training programs, all of which many of
which do good work. But these are places where money
gets siphoned off that don't support people directly. I think
cash based programs are a more efficient way even of
addressing issues of poverty, and there was a time when
(14:52):
this was seen as a bipartisan approach to addressing poverty,
I think at the political level anyway, at the policy level.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
To be again, there's also i think, not just the
issue of the individual lives, but also as an investment
in the community about avoided future costs. Right, So we
know that when we have these types of programs that
provide interventions to people support them, particularly families with children,
you know you have avoided future costs.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So if it's six thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
For a year for a basic income payment to somebody,
that avoids something that is, you know, the cost of
a shelter bed which is twice as much in America
down the road because you've provided the path for housing stability,
or the cost of incarceration which is ten times as much.
You provided an opportunity for somebody to have the economic
(15:38):
growth and success and stability that provides them with the
opportunity in life that avoids that future cost. So when
we say it's an investment in our community, it's not
just about the five hundred dollars being provided to that family.
It's about the avoided future costs that come from the
social conditions that can result when you don't invest in people.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Professor, how can people find out in June. I guess
the basics the reporter out now, but the whole kit
and kaboodle is coming out in June. Where can people
connect with the report and find everywhere or everything that
comes along with it.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
So when the final report is released, we will be
presenting it first to our partners in the City of Salem,
and then I presume we'll have another release of some
kind for the full report. We as a state public university,
make our final reports available. We will the Northrop Policy Lab,
which I started here at Salem State University a year
(16:30):
and a half ago. We're just finalizing our website. We're
just launching it like any you know, in the next
week or so.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Okay, so we only.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Started last spring and we're now officially and so we're
looking to have a website. We'll be able to host
all the past reports that we've we produced as well,
so people will be able to access that.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, good to know, and mayor if people want to
find out more about the help that the City of
Salem has for constituents, all the programs you've got going on,
how can they connect with this?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Go to SALEMMA dot gov and all the information about
the services programs our office offers, and all the city
departments that provide assistance to our community can be found Salema.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Dot go beautiful easy enough. All right, thank you both
for your time. Gentlemen, this is really good information and
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
A happy Mother's Day weekend if you celebrate, Hope you
have a safe and healthy one, and join us again
next week for another edition of the show. I'm Nicole
Davis from WBZ News Radio on iHeartRadio.
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