May 9, 2026 • 47 mins
Season 4 tees off with Henry Young, life member of the PGA of America. Henry reflects on getting into Duke, his path to a career as a golf professional, the biggest thing he learned about teaching the game, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to The rich Conwall Golf Show. This is season
number four. When I started this, Cory and I started
this obviously four years ago, and I want to tell
you that that feels like sometimes fifteen minutes ago and
sometimes hours ago. But yeah, so it is. It's awesome
(00:23):
to be on season four. We're moving into our second
century of shows because we're at one hundred and one today,
and I am very excited to kick off season four
of The rich Cononwall Golf Show with a person who
I have known for a very very very long time
and just geographically have respected from far away. But I
(00:47):
have known this person since I was probably eleven years old,
and I think that he was the I've been racking
my brain the first PGA professional I ever met in person.
I was I think eleven or twelve years old, and
that person's name is Henry Young. Henry is a life
member of the PGA of America and he was nice
(01:09):
enough to join us today. So Henry, thanks for coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Absolutely, it's a treat, and yeah, I'm looking forward to
talking to you about times past. And you had mentioned
that we had met when you were a youngster at
Rolling Hills and I was the head pro there and
it just brings back a lot of memories. I have
(01:35):
a lot of fond memories of everything, Pittsburgh, McMurray, Peters Township.
I was in that area for twenty years. So right,
this is a treat for me to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So so all right, so as I do with everybody, Henry,
go ahead and go back to the start of all this.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How did you get your starting go?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Wow? Well, I grew up in central South Carolina, Donald
Ross Golf Course. I had a bunch of friends that
played golf. We had a bunch of great junior players.
We had the run of the mill on the course.
There were no restrictions. We played all the time. And
(02:27):
you know, it just was in my blood from the
get go. I went off to prep school in Virginia.
We had a nine hole golf course on campus, a
Donald Ross golf course, golf team, all of that went
to college.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Where hold on? So where did you go to prep
school in Virginia?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Woodbury Forest?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
You went to Woodbury?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I did in Orange, right right outside of Orange, right right.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Outside of arms. ORANGEU one of the best experiences of
my life. No doubt, Oh my god, and that you're
familiar with that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh yeah, I one time I was the head professional
of the country of a culpepper.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I knew that. I did love that.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
How's that gets yes? Yes, yeah, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So you can appreciate that. The beauty of that era,
of that area, the beauty of that school, how great
that school is. It had a lot to do with
formulating my character, I would say, And I have lifelong
(03:48):
friends from that school. But the funny thing was most
of my friends there leaving Woodbury. We're going to go
to Carolina. And we had a kind of a dictatorial headmaster.
(04:09):
And he called me in his office one day. I'll
never forget and he said, young, I'm not letting. I'm
not letting you go to Carolina, You'll never finish. I'm
sending you somewhere else. And I said, all right, that's fine.
Where do you want to send me? He said, I'm
put I'm gonna get you into Duke. So I went
to Duke. I knew nothing about Duke, but that was
(04:32):
a great experience of mine. Playing on the golf team
there for freshman team and then three years on the varsity.
No scholarships at that time, but we had great players there.
We won the ACC Championship my sophomore year. I was
co captain my senior year. And I knew as soon
(04:54):
as I graduated that I was going to be a
golf professional. That's just what I was going to do,
and my focus was playing at that point. But it
didn't work out in this sense. I was actually hired
(05:17):
as assistant pro and pe instructor for Duke at the
Duke University golf course, and so I was basically I
walked across the street from graduation right into the golf
shop and started working as the assistant there. It was crazy, yeah,
(05:37):
but what happened that winter down there? You stay open
year round. You don't know what the weather's going to
be like on any given day through the winter, so
they open year round. I remember sitting in the golf
shop middle of January, It's snowing, and I'm rethinking my
whole approach to this, which was I need to move
(06:02):
north to a place to a club that flows is
in the winter, so I can go down to Florida
and play tournaments in the wintertime. And that was the
genesis of me ending up in Pittsburgh. So I'm reading.
(06:23):
I'm sitting in the golf shop reading Golf magazine or whatever.
It was, Golf Weekly, and Don Copeland had an ad
looking for an assistant pro for Saint Clair Country Club.
I responded to it. He was driving south, he stopped
(06:43):
off in Durham, We had dinner together, He hired me,
and the next thing, you know, my wife and my
daughter and I that spring were on our way up
to Pittsburgh Sight unseen. And that was how I ended
up in Pittsburgh. But I knew from the very beginning,
all through school, all through college, I was going to
(07:05):
be a goth professional, one way or another. And that's
that was the genesis of it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Oh my god. So that that's incredible Sight unseen. I
love that. I love that. I'll tell you what, I'll
bet your wife was scared to death.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
She was a trooper. And you know, we I was
driving like a rental U haul with all our stuff
in it. She was driving the car behind me, and
I remember Don Copeland said, when you get up in
this area, find a motel in the Washington area. Don't
(07:47):
go any farther because there isn't anything. And I didn't.
I didn't believe him. So it's like ten to eleven
at night. We passed through Washington. We end up in Bridgeville.
We end up on all as Kirby Roads, we get
on the new nineteen pass it I'm looking for there's
got to be a motel. No nothing, And so we
(08:08):
ended up in Washington. My wife was a little upset
with me, but we ended up going back to Washington
signing a motel. And you know the next day I
started work.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
So so did you get that's that's incredible because it's
funny thing as you say that there's nothing there, Like
I have I have two children and they're twenty eight
and twenty three, and and I tell them all the
time I went to Peter's towns of high school, and
I tell them I went to school with kids, the
kids that milk cows before school, and like they see
(08:41):
Peter's town now and it's like, oh my god, there's
no way that happened. I'm like, guess it is. I
can show you where Gary Staginga's farm was. I can
show you where it was, and like and there was
there was nothing out there because Washington was the big
city and Pittsburgh was the big city, right and everything.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Else was nothing. So how long did you work for Don?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That was I had two stints with Don, and he
was a great man, a great mentor, great golf professional
in my view. I loved him to death. I worked
with him in for two years nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy,
(09:25):
basically as a teacher, play with the members, that kind
of thing. I didn't have to do that much in
the shop, and that was kind of the beginning of
my teaching career. But I was also an antsy to
get out on my own. And the Rolling Hills job
(09:48):
opened up and I applied for it, and I was
pretty young at that point. I really didn't think I
was going to get it. There were a bunch of
guys that were trying to get that that job, and
they hired me. So the next thing you know, there
I am. I'm the head pro at Rolling Hills for
(10:11):
four years. But then Don wanted me to come back
to Saint Clair and he wanted me to be the
associate head professional and just teach and play with the members.
And I decided to do that, and I went back
to Saint Clair and then I was there for ten
(10:32):
twelve years in that second stint.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And then so all right, well let me ask you
this question. When you interviewed and you may not remember this,
you might remember it. I don't know, but who else
interviewed for the Rolling Hills job?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, now you're gonna They didn't tell me a whole
lot of people, but I think maybe, I know, Willie
Belgium did. I think maybe Johnny Reck did some of
the some of the old names that you know of
back in the day. Maybe Sammy Deep Sammy. Yeah, you know,
(11:20):
I just know they told me there were quite a
few people that interviewed for the job, so I felt
I felt fortunate, you know, to have them chosen. There
was a fellow that spearheaded that. His name was Arnold Horlick.
I remember that. And he was a pretty good player,
remember at Rolling Hills, And he took a liking to me,
(11:41):
and I guess he just pushed it through.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So okay, so you go back to Saint Clair and
you stayed for ten years.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, well, let's see seven. I went back in seventy
five and I was there maybe and eleven years mid eighties,
Don left and I chose. The circumstances were not that good.
(12:15):
He left, and I chose. I could have stayed, but
I chose to leave as well. And that's when Phil
Newcamp took.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Over right a right, and then he had it until well,
according to him, he had it forever, but he's just
not forever. But yeah, So so then then were you then?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Where? Then where'd you go? Well?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It was interesting, you know. Joe Hardy was a member
of Sekeler Country Club. He bought uh nemicol and Woodlands, right.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
He had before I guess before he actually bought it,
or before he decided to have a golf professional. He
had some events down there and he has me to
come down and run them for him, and one thing
led to another and next thing, you know, he hired
me as as the golf professional there. So I moved
(13:12):
down there and I was there more.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
What's that that's in the middle of nowhere? That was
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
There's beautiful middle of nowhere, just outside Farmington. But if
you've been there, I'm sure you have it. That's absolutely beautiful.
But that was a bit of a challenge working for
Joe and his family. And I was there maybe three years,
(13:43):
right say eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty nine, something like that,
and left there, moved to Florida. I called Rick Smith,
who was the new director of golf at Treetops up
in Michigan, and I said, let's do a golf school
at Treetops And he said, let's do it. And so
(14:08):
that spring of nineteen ninety up I go to Treetops
and that's where my teaching career really really got focused.
I really took off.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So before we talk about that, I want to talk
a little bit more about about your South Hills experience
because like you, because so you would have known old
man mister Deep, right, yeah, And I'll tell you, I'll
tell you us the greatest, the greatest thing. I'll tell
you that he was a member at Rolling Hills when
I was caddying there, right, So it's like I met you,
(14:46):
like I said hello to you or whatever when I
was eleven twelve. I was then I was like, then
I caddy there because you had left and I was
caddy in there and and and I was you know,
so and mister Deep was a member there, right, and
he was an honorary member because he's retired by then.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I mean he was, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And I remember one time he was in the golf
shop and he was standing there talking to me and
and somebody handed me a wedge that was bent. They
had bent it, and he was like, he was like
and he just stood there and I said, well, I'll
put it back here and we'll do the club repair
thing and this and the other thing.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
And he left and he said, he goes, hey, get
that wedge.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And we went out to the bench on the first
tee and he took a towel and heated and he
heated it and he bent.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
He bent it back to straight and he looked straight.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Down at it and he goes, that's straight.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
And I said, yeah, he goes.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Now he goes tomorrow when he comes back in, give
that to him and tell him.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You did it.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
And I was like, I was. I was like that.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I was like the legend, you know, because like I
was this fifteen year old kid that figure out how
to straighten out this wedge that that somebody try.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
To wrap and I'm like that. I was like, this incredible,
So all right now, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Very typical of him. Though he was such a great
sweet man, wasn't he.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yes, he was.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
He was all right, So Henry, this is the end
of our first segment. We're gonna take a break and
we're gonna jump back into and we're gonna talk about treetops. Okay, yeah, fine,
this is the rich Comwell Golf Show. Welcome back to
the rich Comwall Golf Show. We were visiting with Henry
Young today. Henry is a life member of the PGA
of America. And we left off in the first segment
(16:37):
that Henry had his first head professor at the first
two head professional positions and associate head professional position in
the South Hills of Pittsburgh and well technically Farmington, which
is in you know, far or far far hinterlands of Pennsylvania.
But it's a beautiful facility at Nemicorn Woodlands.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But so then he's now called Rick Smith.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Now, for anybody who doesn't know, Rick Smith is a
graduate of our percentclar High School. And and and and
Rick had played in college in Florida, gone to Rollins.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Correct, he went to Rawlins, right.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, he went to East Tennessee State, I think for
a year. Then he transferred. Yeah maybe it was, yeah,
somewhere in Florida. I forget exactly where it was.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, because because we're gonna say, and I would say
this to Rick to his face, Rick would Rook was
not going to light any school books on fire.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
He really really really wasn't. So he was going to
well he was, he was never going to rip through
those very well.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So so I know, so so you know, he's he's
the only guy that ever got the he got the
letter s writing student and after that it was over.
So all right, so you go, so he goes he's
a Tree Tops and you call him and say, okay,
let's do a golf school.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
So so take me through that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well he digressed just for a moment. He was a
junior member at Rolling Hills and then when I was
at Saint Clair. I mean he was. I have known
him forever and we've been close friends from the very
get go, even though there's an age difference. He's twelve
years younger than I am. But he went off to
(18:28):
after college, he went off to Ohio. He worked for
Don Cottnik at Country clob of Toledo. Then he went
to Scioto with Walker Inman just as a teacher, and
then from there he went up to Treetops. But we
(18:48):
had maintained contact all through those years, and Yeah, I
called him and said, let's do a golf Let's do
a golf school. So I go up in nineteen and
I formulate pretty much everything. You know, I run it
by Rick. I said, our first thing we're going to do,
(19:11):
we're not going to run people through a school like sheep.
We're not going to have a six to one, eight
to one, four to one ratio of students to teachers.
It doesn't work, it's not effective. I don't want to
do that. We're going to be going to be a
little bit more expensive, but we're going to have a
two to one ratio and all of our schools. Rick said, fine,
(19:32):
he agreed with that approach. So we had a three
day full day school, a three day half day school,
and a two day half day school with you know,
private lessons and all the rest of it, and we
got we got it going, which, which, to be honest
with you, was a bit surprising to me because when
(19:56):
I first got up there, I thought I was in
the middle of nowhere. No, it was like being in Farmington.
It was like, because this is northern lower We're talking
about three hours drive north of Detroit. We're about forty
five minutes south of the mackinaw Bridge that takes you
under the Upper Peninsula. It's way up there, and I'm
(20:19):
saying to Rick, how are we going to get people
to come here? Well, Rick was at that point, he
was well known in the state of Michigan. His family
originally came from Michigan. I think he was born in Michigan.
And he had a lot of notoriety from the sports writers,
(20:44):
Detroit Press or whatever when he moved to Treetops. And
of course at that time he was working with Rocco
and Lee Janssen, Billy Andre and uh those three primarily
Rocko won his first event at Durrell in the early nineties,
(21:08):
Lee won the US Open at Balisrav Rick was working
with him, and all of a sudden, Rick's starr was skyrocketing.
And people, you know how people are, if you're if
you have that notoriety, they think you know something special,
(21:28):
You've got secrets. We're coming up to Treetops to find out,
you know, what the secret to the golf swing is.
And but the thing was was that he was he
was He was not there a lot. He was on tour,
and then he got into golf course design, he was
(21:53):
designing golf courses at treetops other places. He was working
with the tour players, and I I'm there on the range,
you know, running the running the school, running the thing,
and it was it was good. It just worked out.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So all right, So let me let me go backwards
a little because you mentioned Rocco, right, So how h
how much how much did Jim Free help Rocco?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I think I think Jim helped Rocco initially, right, and
and then uh, somewhere along the line, of course, Rick
and Rocco got to know one another, being from that
same area, they became friends. Uh, Jim was helping Rocco.
(22:50):
Roco got out on tour, and as Rick tells me, uh,
Rocco came back to Witzsburgh and said to Rick, you
got to do something with my golf swing. I cannot
compete with the players that I'm playing with out on tour.
(23:10):
You've got to fix me. And I'm not going to
go into a long dissertation as to what Rick did
with Rocco, but he rearranged Rocco's golf swing in a
manner that allowed him to hit it further and also
to take pressure off his back, which was an issue
and basically Roco. They still work together even to this day.
(23:35):
Rocco will send videos to Rick pretty much every day
and Rick will critique him. They get together from time
to time. Jim helped initially, but Rick has been working
with Roco from his first year on tour ever since.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, because he because I remember I watched a video
of Roco talking about his first tour event and He's like,
I walked down the rain and I'm like, you know what,
I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I can't do that. I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I'm watching all these guys hitting balls. I'm like, I
can't do what they're doing because I have a tour
card in my pocket, but I can't do what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
That's exactly what That's exactly you know what I'm talking about.
And that's what he said to Rick. And so that's
when they started rearranging Rocco's twain.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I'll tell you, you know, And and that's just and
you know, the funny thing is that I will give
I will give Roco credit.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And obviously a great player. Obviously a great player. You
play the PGA Tour for that.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You're a great player, But you know The coolest thing
about Rocco is he never ever ever left Greensburg. He's like, look,
this is who I am, this is who I am.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I'm just gonna beat him.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's kind of how I got there.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well, that's why I'm so engaging. That's why people love him,
right yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Right, he just he's just he's just he's the same
guy every day, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, so all right, so you so he's so so Rick's.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Flitting around all over the world, right, and he's kind
of half famous, and you're actually putting You're you're the
you're the solid workbench guy.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So so how okay?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
On a scale of one to ten, like, how hard
was it to create that environment?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
H I didn't find it hard. I was just amazed
that we've got so many people coming up there. And
I mean, I I just I love teaching. What I
learned about teaching was that if you know you're good
and you can help people, you love to do it.
(25:37):
The guys that don't like to teach are the ones
that just they really they're not good teachers. And I
love them. And I learned everything I could from various sources.
I had. I had good input from various sources, one
of which was, you'll appreciate this. When I was at
(26:01):
Rolling Hills, Golf Digest had their home schools, home golf
schools where they would come to They would have some
of their Golf Digest instructors come to facilities and teach
your members. Yeah, you had this, got enough to sign up?
They did it at Oakmont, but they I remember going
(26:23):
up to Rolling Rock Club and so this would have
been seventy seventy one, seventy two, seventy three in that era,
and Paul Runy In, Davis Love, Hank Johnson were there,
and of course Hank was the head pro at Yakaganny,
(26:43):
but he ended up doing those Golf Digest schools and
I went up there to observe, and watching those guys
was an inspiration. I knew I had so much to learn,
and that got me going into studying, reading, a trying
(27:07):
to absorb the best information I could find about the
golf swing, golf instruction, the stuff that really matters versus
the fluff.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yes, and.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But so I so I found it to be not
hard work. I enjoyed it every single day. I just
had a good time doing it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, that's funny you say that, because I was fortunate
enough to talk to leed Better a couple of times.
He's like, you know, we can talk all you want.
He's like, let me tell you something. You get their
club face where it needs to be, you'll be all right,
you'll be all right, they'll be okay, they'll be okay.
He's he's like, you know, they all look a lot
pretty similar. He's like, but you know, don't don't get
bogged down and all this, all this stuff. He's like,
(27:53):
all the he called what did he call it, he
called all the rattlings. He's like, don't get bogged down,
the rattling, just just the peripheral.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, you can make it. Well, that that's huge. I
think play and path influenced the face a lot, so
there's a relationship there. I think also what really helped
me understanding information about the golf swing was uh Gary
Wyron's laws, principles and preferences. Do you remember that the
(28:28):
laws be the ball flight laws, the principles that supported
the laws, and then and then the preferences. And that
made me distinguish between for example, risk tunds would be
a principle and it would support clubhead, speed or plane
or whatever you want to talk about the laws, but
(28:50):
preferentially would be when when you when do you cock
your risk? Do you cock them early, you cack them later?
Do you downcock them in the downs? And that was
very helpful for me to categorize information what was really relevant.
And and then and then John Jacob's book He was
(29:14):
the father of teaching, is what Hank Haney would say.
But John Jacobs based basing his evaluation of the golf
swing on what the ball does. Right, you start with
bafflight and then come back to the conditions of impact
and then what's creating those conditions of impact. So that
(29:35):
helped me categorize information too. And so I just drank
all that up and I just felt like, any give
me any student, I know I'm going to be able
to help him, and that's fun So I didn't find
it to be hard work.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
So so then then let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So that's funny you say all that because you know,
you stand there and you watch people, and like you watch,
I'm I'm finding that the more informations out there that
that at least the people I interact with pretty regularly,
they lose sight of the fact that you know, they
really want to know where the golf club's going and
stuff like that. I'm like, you know what if you
(30:13):
can't get yourself aligned correctly, you know, you can't get
yourself set up to a pretty dynamically a pretty dynamic
set up, that golf club, that golf club will never
do what you wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And like they And when I talked to him about,
like I have that really.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Good player yesterday he was talking he's like a four
and you know this as well, talking play the tour,
but for handicap is a good player. Is a good player.
That's a good player. And he's like, well, you know
the balls turn this. I said, why don't we trying
to get you set up and you know kind of
like make sure that we're aligned correctly, and you know,
our spine angle is kind of pretty solid. And he's like, yeah,
but what's that going to do to the golf club. I said,
(30:48):
let's find out. Let's find out. Right I put you,
if I put if I put the foundation of your house,
probably you know I put some cement around it, you're
gonna start to find out that golf cluble move kind
of where you want it to because you're a good
enough player, you're gonna move it correctly.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yes, we gonna liminate interference. It's just limit your exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
You know, there's an order of progression, and you start
with pre slung fundamentals, no doubt about it. And then yeah,
then you see how that influences the rest of the stuff.
And then if it's not quite right, then you can
attack that. But no, I hear you, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
So oh so here, by the way, I'll do a
little flashback here. Did you ever spend time with Russ Sherba.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I knew Russ. I mean Russ was he was the
pro at rolling Hills right before he went to Valley Brook,
I think. And then there was a pro at rolling
Hills named Jimmy Lynch between Russ and me. But Russ
was over at Valley Brook, and yeah, I got to
(31:54):
know Russ a little bit. I didn't see a whole
lot of them, but I knew him. I knew him
well enough to know his personality and who he was.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, because the crazy, craziest thing in the world is again,
I'm like, you know this about the same time that
that Sam Deep Sticks, that fick tells me I fixed
the chef, which I didn't touch.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
And and and.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Russ came over because Rush was retired by that because
he was pretty, you know he was. And he came
over and he sat in the golf shop and I
was I was a little older than I was, about
nineteen then, and he looks at.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Me and he goes, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And that guy talked for twenty five minutes about the golf,
the golf business and how to treat people.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And of course, you know as well as I do,
every other word was g D. Every other word was
g D.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I still don't know how he didn't, but like then
he was talking to me, he's he's like, you know
what this and you know, you walk in and people
walk in, stand up, shake their hand, let him know
you're happy to be You're happy to see him, and
said and I'm going, my god, And it was like
a master class in twenty five minutes, sprinkled in with
eight million gds in there, because that's he had a
(33:05):
photo truth. And then then he goes, he goes, all right,
last thing, he goes, let me tell you something. He goes,
I went to the PGA in nineteen forty six, and
I saw that little dude couldn't get a club face
on it. That little man, he couldn't get a club
face on it. He goes, and he goes, he won
that damn event.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
He goes.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Then nineteen fifty, I go to the I go to
the US Open. It Marion, that little dude couldn't miss it.
And it took me like ten minutes to figure out
he was talking about Hugan and he goes, I watch,
he goes, I watched him for ten I watched him
for an hour in Portland. I watched him for an
hour in Philadelphia. He goes, it was a different guy.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
He goes.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
The only thing that was to say, he didn't talk
to me in forty six, didn't talk to me in fifty.
And I'm rolling on the floor because he's still it's like.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
He's standing all right.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So, Henry, that's my big rush or a story. So
now we're going to wrap up segment two. When we
get back, we're going to talk more about treetops and
about how all this how this massive success came to you.
This is the rich Comwell Golf Show. Welcome back to
the rich Comwoll Golf Show. And we are joined by
lifetime PGA member, life member of the PGA of America,
(34:19):
Henry Young. And Henry has incredible knowledge and incredible history
about the golf industry and the PGA of America. But
I wanted to spend the next few minutes just talking
about the massive growth that Henry created in Treetop's Michigan.
So how big did it get, Henry? Was it bigger
(34:40):
than you ever thought it would be?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
It depends on what you mean by big. You know,
we were busy, We were constantly busy. But we would
have a school of four people, and I would have
one assistant, one teaching assistant. I had six or eight
through the years that worked under me and work with me,
(35:06):
all great teachers. But we would have if we had
a three day school, it'd be two teachers and four
students and that was it. And obviously the purpose, and
you can appreciate this, Rich, is that learning, teaching and
(35:28):
learning the gospeling can be a complicated issue. And if
you have if you're doing a school and you're working
with four people by yourself or six people by yourself,
and two or three of those people are going to
have some serious issues. They're going to need more attention
(35:50):
than the others, but you're not going to be able
to give it to them. And I didn't want to
be in that position. So that was the advent of
our approach that our student to teacher ratio was never
going to be more than two to one. And probably
(36:11):
the proudest aspect for me and my teaching was in
that regard. When Golf Magazine started ranking golf schools, and
they only did it for maybe they did it bi
annually for maybe eight or ten years, but when the
(36:33):
first list came out top twenty five GoF Schools of America,
we were in there and we were the only school
that had a two to one ratio, the only one
of all of them. And I was proud of that,
and I think I think students recognize that and they
(36:53):
appreciated that. So as time went on, Rick's name was huge.
He's drawing people in. I'm there, I'm doing the schools.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
We're filling up these schools one right after another. The
three day half day school we called the Weekend Workshop.
We had one every weekend. We were filled up all
summer long May through into October, every single weekend. And
then we had three day full day school Tuesday, Wednesday, thursdays,
(37:36):
that kind of thing. They were full and I just
kept I just kept doing them and really really enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Right, it was probably easy. It was probably easy to
keep doing it because you did enjoy it. If it
had been a grind, that would have been.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
A grind for me. No, it was fun because part
of it was too. I was the more you teach,
the better you get. The more I teach more I
learned a lot from my students, and the more you
get a command for articulation, communication, visualization, drills, all the
(38:18):
things that we did to help people get better teaching, age,
so forth, and so on. I just it was it
was fun for me because I just enjoyed it. So, yeah,
go ahead, now, I was just going to say, you know,
(38:40):
you you gav me outline about things in my career
that I was most proud of, and those golf schools
and being recognized as a top twenty five golf school
when Golf Magazine did that, right, those rankings were based
solely on the quality of instruction. They sent a letter
(39:02):
out to us and stead, you know, they look at
your facility, number of teachers, student teacher, ratio, pricing, all
that other stuff, but the most important factor in their
rankings was customer satisfaction. So your students could go do
(39:22):
an online survey after they went to the schools. Right,
And that was the most satisfying thing to me, was
that we were ranked top twenty five basically because of
our student feedback. That's what I was most proud of.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right, Well, you should be. But so let me ask
you this question.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
You just mentioned six or seven guys that taught under you, like,
and they're obviously very very very good teachers, Like like,
name some of the people you mentored, because I see
and you can say whatever you want henry about about
they work with you, But you know what, they they
learned a lot from I guarantee they learned a lot
(40:05):
from you.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I guarantee you that well.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
It I'm sure they did. But I would I learned
a lot from some of them as well. You can
always learn something from from every every teacher. There's going
to be a different viewpoint. They're going to see something
a little differently, they're going to be able to express
something a little differently. So I would say I learned
(40:30):
something from all of the guys that worked under me,
you're not going to probably know or have heard of.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Of.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Maybe one or two. Uh, there was there's a fellow
by the name of Jim Schuman, who is Jerry Kelly's
brother in law, and you know he's from Wisconsin. And
Jim Schuman a great player in Wisconsin, a great teacher there.
He worked with me for a number of years. There
(41:05):
was a fella from Australia named Brett LeBrock who was
an outstanding teacher and he came and mentored under me.
We had a great relationship. He was terrific. Jim sower
Wine went to the University of North Carolina, played golf
(41:27):
with Davis Love and so on. He's in the Naples,
Florida area, and now he still teaches. So and there
were some other ones. There's a fellow by the name
of Jeff Goebel who still teaches up in Michigan. He
was working with me at Treetops. So there won't be
(41:50):
anyone that you would know that, say went on and
worked with tour players and made a name for himself.
But these were all great players, great individuals, you know, guys,
and great teachers. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
So okay, so let me ask you this question. Who's
the best player you ever taught. That's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, you know, I never worked with any tour players
per se. A couple of senior tour players. Buddy Witten
from Michigan.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, that's the most optim that's the most optimistic human
being ever. Buddy Witten's most optimistic human being you ever met?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
In your wife?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Is that right? You know him?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, I know, I know, I know of him. I know.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I know some guys in Michigan, you know, like Brian
Karns and stuff like that, and they're like and they're
like that guy like could hit it somewhere and he
figured out a way to look at it pretty good.
I'm like, okay, So yeah, Buddy went great player, great player.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Great player, good friend of mine as uh DJA player
for a little bit. And then a senior tour player
fellow by the name of Richie Bassett. And then I
got to know Harry Tascano. Well, yeah, I'm good friends
with Harry and Harry and I to this day we
(43:25):
uh double team his grandson Santino, who's an up and
coming great junior player up in in your area.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But so anyway, uh, I would go with Rick on
on certain occasions to tour events, and I work with
him and Jerry Kelly a little bit, watch him with
(43:59):
Brendan Steal, Yeah, with Roo and Lee and all those guys.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, So Jansen like he has something mentally that that's
different than everybody else, because you don't, you know, Like
I'm not saying he's obviously a very good player.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Obviously very good player, don't.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I'm not saying that, but like there's something about him
mentally that's different than everybody else. Because you just figured
out a way to win the US Open, actually more
than one of them, and it's like it's like, oh
my god, Like this guy's got the gig, He's got it.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Exactly how did he do that? Very surprising? Yeah, all
of a sudden you knew he could play, but to
be able to pulled up that well under that pressure
and when a US opened early in his career, that
(44:53):
just came out of nowhere. So yeah, he had that.
He definitely had that mental stress, thanks and confidence to
do it, and he did.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Twice. He did it twice.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's like Claude Harmon said to one of his sons,
because I have it and you don't, you know, I'm
not being I'm not trying. He goes, I'm and his son,
his son said that was the most honest thing, the
best thing he could ever said to me, because I
thought I could play and he looked at me. Because
I have it and you don't. It's okay, it's all right,
you know. So it doesn't make a bad person. I
have it and you don't.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
That's why I That's why I did what I did.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
So yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Henry, I've got less than two minutes now, and I
just want to tell you something.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
This has been so much fun. I mean, you have
no idea, you have no idea.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
How literally, Like I was sitting around, I was talking
to actually a guy that you know, Bob Sileara and
and he said, you know, you're looking for people that
want to be on that show.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Easy, I'll bet you Henry would do that. And I
didn't really think.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I didn't really think that you would, you, you know,
I mean, because you're you're a pretty famous guy. And
I'm like, no, I'm giving a shot, and like and
and and to tell you, you know, it's it's kind
of like we mentioned a lot of names today. It
maybe feel a lot younger than I really am and
but I gotta tell you, from the moment that I
(46:21):
was a little kid, I met you like you were
the definition of a PGA professional. Because I will tell
you this because because Slaira told me this, because you
were his caddy instructor at Saint Clair and he said
you dressed so well and you had a red spaulting bag.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I said to myself, if I could be that, I'd
be all right.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
And this and and and you and I remember one
day you said to me, said, you know, if I
could ever and I was a little kid, like, hey,
you have fun, That's what you said to me, have fun.
If I could ever help you, let me know, and
you walk through it because you had a million things
to do, and I was like, wow, Like, if I
could be that, I'd be all right. So just you know,
I know that you taught a lot of people, and
(46:59):
it's not just I just want you to know that
you had an impact on a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
And even if even if you don't think.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
About it every day, you probably should because you have.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And you're very kind. You're very kind to say that.
You're very kind, very flattering, and I appreciate that. I'm grateful,
very grateful for my time in that in the Pittsburgh
area and the people that I met, and I appreciate
your comments very much.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You bet so.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I wanted to say thanks again for being on the show,
and I'm just going to say thanks to Henry Young
for wrapping up season season four, episode one of the
Rich com walkof show.
Welcome to The rich Conwall Golf Show. This is season
number four. When I started this, Cory and I started
this obviously four years ago, and I want to tell
you that that feels like sometimes fifteen minutes ago and
sometimes hours ago. But yeah, so it is. It's awesome
(00:23):
to be on season four. We're moving into our second
century of shows because we're at one hundred and one today,
and I am very excited to kick off season four
of The rich Cononwall Golf Show with a person who
I have known for a very very very long time
and just geographically have respected from far away. But I
(00:47):
have known this person since I was probably eleven years old,
and I think that he was the I've been racking
my brain the first PGA professional I ever met in person.
I was I think eleven or twelve years old, and
that person's name is Henry Young. Henry is a life
member of the PGA of America and he was nice
(01:09):
enough to join us today. So Henry, thanks for coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Absolutely, it's a treat, and yeah, I'm looking forward to
talking to you about times past. And you had mentioned
that we had met when you were a youngster at
Rolling Hills and I was the head pro there and
it just brings back a lot of memories. I have
(01:35):
a lot of fond memories of everything, Pittsburgh, McMurray, Peters Township.
I was in that area for twenty years. So right,
this is a treat for me to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So so all right, so as I do with everybody, Henry,
go ahead and go back to the start of all this.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How did you get your starting go?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Wow? Well, I grew up in central South Carolina, Donald
Ross Golf Course. I had a bunch of friends that
played golf. We had a bunch of great junior players.
We had the run of the mill on the course.
There were no restrictions. We played all the time. And
(02:27):
you know, it just was in my blood from the
get go. I went off to prep school in Virginia.
We had a nine hole golf course on campus, a
Donald Ross golf course, golf team, all of that went
to college.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Where hold on? So where did you go to prep
school in Virginia?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Woodbury Forest?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
You went to Woodbury?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I did in Orange, right right outside of Orange, right right.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Outside of arms. ORANGEU one of the best experiences of
my life. No doubt, Oh my god, and that you're
familiar with that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh yeah, I one time I was the head professional
of the country of a culpepper.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I knew that. I did love that.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
How's that gets yes? Yes, yeah, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So you can appreciate that. The beauty of that era,
of that area, the beauty of that school, how great
that school is. It had a lot to do with
formulating my character, I would say, And I have lifelong
(03:48):
friends from that school. But the funny thing was most
of my friends there leaving Woodbury. We're going to go
to Carolina. And we had a kind of a dictatorial headmaster.
(04:09):
And he called me in his office one day. I'll
never forget and he said, young, I'm not letting. I'm
not letting you go to Carolina, You'll never finish. I'm
sending you somewhere else. And I said, all right, that's fine.
Where do you want to send me? He said, I'm
put I'm gonna get you into Duke. So I went
to Duke. I knew nothing about Duke, but that was
(04:32):
a great experience of mine. Playing on the golf team
there for freshman team and then three years on the varsity.
No scholarships at that time, but we had great players there.
We won the ACC Championship my sophomore year. I was
co captain my senior year. And I knew as soon
(04:54):
as I graduated that I was going to be a
golf professional. That's just what I was going to do,
and my focus was playing at that point. But it
didn't work out in this sense. I was actually hired
(05:17):
as assistant pro and pe instructor for Duke at the
Duke University golf course, and so I was basically I
walked across the street from graduation right into the golf
shop and started working as the assistant there. It was crazy, yeah,
(05:37):
but what happened that winter down there? You stay open
year round. You don't know what the weather's going to
be like on any given day through the winter, so
they open year round. I remember sitting in the golf
shop middle of January, It's snowing, and I'm rethinking my
whole approach to this, which was I need to move
(06:02):
north to a place to a club that flows is
in the winter, so I can go down to Florida
and play tournaments in the wintertime. And that was the
genesis of me ending up in Pittsburgh. So I'm reading.
(06:23):
I'm sitting in the golf shop reading Golf magazine or whatever.
It was, Golf Weekly, and Don Copeland had an ad
looking for an assistant pro for Saint Clair Country Club.
I responded to it. He was driving south, he stopped
(06:43):
off in Durham, We had dinner together, He hired me,
and the next thing, you know, my wife and my
daughter and I that spring were on our way up
to Pittsburgh Sight unseen. And that was how I ended
up in Pittsburgh. But I knew from the very beginning,
all through school, all through college, I was going to
(07:05):
be a goth professional, one way or another. And that's
that was the genesis of it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Oh my god. So that that's incredible Sight unseen. I
love that. I love that. I'll tell you what, I'll
bet your wife was scared to death.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
She was a trooper. And you know, we I was
driving like a rental U haul with all our stuff
in it. She was driving the car behind me, and
I remember Don Copeland said, when you get up in
this area, find a motel in the Washington area. Don't
(07:47):
go any farther because there isn't anything. And I didn't.
I didn't believe him. So it's like ten to eleven
at night. We passed through Washington. We end up in Bridgeville.
We end up on all as Kirby Roads, we get
on the new nineteen pass it I'm looking for there's
got to be a motel. No nothing, And so we
(08:08):
ended up in Washington. My wife was a little upset
with me, but we ended up going back to Washington
signing a motel. And you know the next day I
started work.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
So so did you get that's that's incredible because it's
funny thing as you say that there's nothing there, Like
I have I have two children and they're twenty eight
and twenty three, and and I tell them all the
time I went to Peter's towns of high school, and
I tell them I went to school with kids, the
kids that milk cows before school, and like they see
(08:41):
Peter's town now and it's like, oh my god, there's
no way that happened. I'm like, guess it is. I
can show you where Gary Staginga's farm was. I can
show you where it was, and like and there was
there was nothing out there because Washington was the big
city and Pittsburgh was the big city, right and everything.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Else was nothing. So how long did you work for Don?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That was I had two stints with Don, and he
was a great man, a great mentor, great golf professional
in my view. I loved him to death. I worked
with him in for two years nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy,
(09:25):
basically as a teacher, play with the members, that kind
of thing. I didn't have to do that much in
the shop, and that was kind of the beginning of
my teaching career. But I was also an antsy to
get out on my own. And the Rolling Hills job
(09:48):
opened up and I applied for it, and I was
pretty young at that point. I really didn't think I
was going to get it. There were a bunch of
guys that were trying to get that that job, and
they hired me. So the next thing you know, there
I am. I'm the head pro at Rolling Hills for
(10:11):
four years. But then Don wanted me to come back
to Saint Clair and he wanted me to be the
associate head professional and just teach and play with the members.
And I decided to do that, and I went back
to Saint Clair and then I was there for ten
(10:32):
twelve years in that second stint.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And then so all right, well let me ask you
this question. When you interviewed and you may not remember this,
you might remember it. I don't know, but who else
interviewed for the Rolling Hills job?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, now you're gonna They didn't tell me a whole
lot of people, but I think maybe, I know, Willie
Belgium did. I think maybe Johnny Reck did some of
the some of the old names that you know of
back in the day. Maybe Sammy Deep Sammy. Yeah, you know,
(11:20):
I just know they told me there were quite a
few people that interviewed for the job, so I felt
I felt fortunate, you know, to have them chosen. There
was a fellow that spearheaded that. His name was Arnold Horlick.
I remember that. And he was a pretty good player,
remember at Rolling Hills, And he took a liking to me,
(11:41):
and I guess he just pushed it through.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So okay, so you go back to Saint Clair and
you stayed for ten years.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, well, let's see seven. I went back in seventy
five and I was there maybe and eleven years mid eighties,
Don left and I chose. The circumstances were not that good.
(12:15):
He left, and I chose. I could have stayed, but
I chose to leave as well. And that's when Phil
Newcamp took.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Over right a right, and then he had it until well,
according to him, he had it forever, but he's just
not forever. But yeah, So so then then were you then?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Where? Then where'd you go? Well?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It was interesting, you know. Joe Hardy was a member
of Sekeler Country Club. He bought uh nemicol and Woodlands, right.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
He had before I guess before he actually bought it,
or before he decided to have a golf professional. He
had some events down there and he has me to
come down and run them for him, and one thing
led to another and next thing, you know, he hired
me as as the golf professional there. So I moved
(13:12):
down there and I was there more.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
What's that that's in the middle of nowhere? That was
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
There's beautiful middle of nowhere, just outside Farmington. But if
you've been there, I'm sure you have it. That's absolutely beautiful.
But that was a bit of a challenge working for
Joe and his family. And I was there maybe three years,
(13:43):
right say eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty nine, something like that,
and left there, moved to Florida. I called Rick Smith,
who was the new director of golf at Treetops up
in Michigan, and I said, let's do a golf school
at Treetops And he said, let's do it. And so
(14:08):
that spring of nineteen ninety up I go to Treetops
and that's where my teaching career really really got focused.
I really took off.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So before we talk about that, I want to talk
a little bit more about about your South Hills experience
because like you, because so you would have known old
man mister Deep, right, yeah, And I'll tell you, I'll
tell you us the greatest, the greatest thing. I'll tell
you that he was a member at Rolling Hills when
I was caddying there, right, So it's like I met you,
(14:46):
like I said hello to you or whatever when I
was eleven twelve. I was then I was like, then
I caddy there because you had left and I was
caddy in there and and and I was you know,
so and mister Deep was a member there, right, and
he was an honorary member because he's retired by then.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I mean he was, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And I remember one time he was in the golf
shop and he was standing there talking to me and
and somebody handed me a wedge that was bent. They
had bent it, and he was like, he was like
and he just stood there and I said, well, I'll
put it back here and we'll do the club repair
thing and this and the other thing.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
And he left and he said, he goes, hey, get
that wedge.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And we went out to the bench on the first
tee and he took a towel and heated and he
heated it and he bent.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
He bent it back to straight and he looked straight.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Down at it and he goes, that's straight.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
And I said, yeah, he goes.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Now he goes tomorrow when he comes back in, give
that to him and tell him.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You did it.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
And I was like, I was. I was like that.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I was like the legend, you know, because like I
was this fifteen year old kid that figure out how
to straighten out this wedge that that somebody try.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
To wrap and I'm like that. I was like, this incredible,
So all right now, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Very typical of him. Though he was such a great
sweet man, wasn't he.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yes, he was.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
He was all right, So Henry, this is the end
of our first segment. We're gonna take a break and
we're gonna jump back into and we're gonna talk about treetops. Okay, yeah, fine,
this is the rich Comwell Golf Show. Welcome back to
the rich Comwall Golf Show. We were visiting with Henry
Young today. Henry is a life member of the PGA
of America. And we left off in the first segment
(16:37):
that Henry had his first head professor at the first
two head professional positions and associate head professional position in
the South Hills of Pittsburgh and well technically Farmington, which
is in you know, far or far far hinterlands of Pennsylvania.
But it's a beautiful facility at Nemicorn Woodlands.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But so then he's now called Rick Smith.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Now, for anybody who doesn't know, Rick Smith is a
graduate of our percentclar High School. And and and and
Rick had played in college in Florida, gone to Rollins.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Correct, he went to Rawlins, right.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, he went to East Tennessee State, I think for
a year. Then he transferred. Yeah maybe it was, yeah,
somewhere in Florida. I forget exactly where it was.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, because because we're gonna say, and I would say
this to Rick to his face, Rick would Rook was
not going to light any school books on fire.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
He really really really wasn't. So he was going to
well he was, he was never going to rip through
those very well.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So so I know, so so you know, he's he's
the only guy that ever got the he got the
letter s writing student and after that it was over.
So all right, so you go, so he goes he's
a Tree Tops and you call him and say, okay,
let's do a golf school.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
So so take me through that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well he digressed just for a moment. He was a
junior member at Rolling Hills and then when I was
at Saint Clair. I mean he was. I have known
him forever and we've been close friends from the very
get go, even though there's an age difference. He's twelve
years younger than I am. But he went off to
(18:28):
after college, he went off to Ohio. He worked for
Don Cottnik at Country clob of Toledo. Then he went
to Scioto with Walker Inman just as a teacher, and
then from there he went up to Treetops. But we
(18:48):
had maintained contact all through those years, and Yeah, I
called him and said, let's do a golf Let's do
a golf school. So I go up in nineteen and
I formulate pretty much everything. You know, I run it
by Rick. I said, our first thing we're going to do,
(19:11):
we're not going to run people through a school like sheep.
We're not going to have a six to one, eight
to one, four to one ratio of students to teachers.
It doesn't work, it's not effective. I don't want to
do that. We're going to be going to be a
little bit more expensive, but we're going to have a
two to one ratio and all of our schools. Rick said, fine,
(19:32):
he agreed with that approach. So we had a three
day full day school, a three day half day school,
and a two day half day school with you know,
private lessons and all the rest of it, and we
got we got it going, which, which, to be honest
with you, was a bit surprising to me because when
(19:56):
I first got up there, I thought I was in
the middle of nowhere. No, it was like being in Farmington.
It was like, because this is northern lower We're talking
about three hours drive north of Detroit. We're about forty
five minutes south of the mackinaw Bridge that takes you
under the Upper Peninsula. It's way up there, and I'm
(20:19):
saying to Rick, how are we going to get people
to come here? Well, Rick was at that point, he
was well known in the state of Michigan. His family
originally came from Michigan. I think he was born in Michigan.
And he had a lot of notoriety from the sports writers,
(20:44):
Detroit Press or whatever when he moved to Treetops. And
of course at that time he was working with Rocco
and Lee Janssen, Billy Andre and uh those three primarily
Rocko won his first event at Durrell in the early nineties,
(21:08):
Lee won the US Open at Balisrav Rick was working
with him, and all of a sudden, Rick's starr was skyrocketing.
And people, you know how people are, if you're if
you have that notoriety, they think you know something special,
(21:28):
You've got secrets. We're coming up to Treetops to find out,
you know, what the secret to the golf swing is.
And but the thing was was that he was he
was He was not there a lot. He was on tour,
and then he got into golf course design, he was
(21:53):
designing golf courses at treetops other places. He was working
with the tour players, and I I'm there on the range,
you know, running the running the school, running the thing,
and it was it was good. It just worked out.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So all right, So let me let me go backwards
a little because you mentioned Rocco, right, So how h
how much how much did Jim Free help Rocco?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I think I think Jim helped Rocco initially, right, and
and then uh, somewhere along the line, of course, Rick
and Rocco got to know one another, being from that
same area, they became friends. Uh, Jim was helping Rocco.
(22:50):
Roco got out on tour, and as Rick tells me, uh,
Rocco came back to Witzsburgh and said to Rick, you
got to do something with my golf swing. I cannot
compete with the players that I'm playing with out on tour.
(23:10):
You've got to fix me. And I'm not going to
go into a long dissertation as to what Rick did
with Rocco, but he rearranged Rocco's golf swing in a
manner that allowed him to hit it further and also
to take pressure off his back, which was an issue
and basically Roco. They still work together even to this day.
(23:35):
Rocco will send videos to Rick pretty much every day
and Rick will critique him. They get together from time
to time. Jim helped initially, but Rick has been working
with Roco from his first year on tour ever since.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, because he because I remember I watched a video
of Roco talking about his first tour event and He's like,
I walked down the rain and I'm like, you know what,
I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I can't do that. I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I'm watching all these guys hitting balls. I'm like, I
can't do what they're doing because I have a tour
card in my pocket, but I can't do what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
That's exactly what That's exactly you know what I'm talking about.
And that's what he said to Rick. And so that's
when they started rearranging Rocco's twain.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I'll tell you, you know, And and that's just and
you know, the funny thing is that I will give
I will give Roco credit.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And obviously a great player. Obviously a great player. You
play the PGA Tour for that.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You're a great player, But you know The coolest thing
about Rocco is he never ever ever left Greensburg. He's like, look,
this is who I am, this is who I am.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I'm just gonna beat him.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's kind of how I got there.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well, that's why I'm so engaging. That's why people love him,
right yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Right, he just he's just he's just he's the same
guy every day, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, so all right, so you so he's so so Rick's.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Flitting around all over the world, right, and he's kind
of half famous, and you're actually putting You're you're the
you're the solid workbench guy.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So so how okay?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
On a scale of one to ten, like, how hard
was it to create that environment?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
H I didn't find it hard. I was just amazed
that we've got so many people coming up there. And
I mean, I I just I love teaching. What I
learned about teaching was that if you know you're good
and you can help people, you love to do it.
(25:37):
The guys that don't like to teach are the ones
that just they really they're not good teachers. And I
love them. And I learned everything I could from various sources.
I had. I had good input from various sources, one
of which was, you'll appreciate this. When I was at
(26:01):
Rolling Hills, Golf Digest had their home schools, home golf
schools where they would come to They would have some
of their Golf Digest instructors come to facilities and teach
your members. Yeah, you had this, got enough to sign up?
They did it at Oakmont, but they I remember going
(26:23):
up to Rolling Rock Club and so this would have
been seventy seventy one, seventy two, seventy three in that era,
and Paul Runy In, Davis Love, Hank Johnson were there,
and of course Hank was the head pro at Yakaganny,
(26:43):
but he ended up doing those Golf Digest schools and
I went up there to observe, and watching those guys
was an inspiration. I knew I had so much to learn,
and that got me going into studying, reading, a trying
(27:07):
to absorb the best information I could find about the
golf swing, golf instruction, the stuff that really matters versus
the fluff.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yes, and.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But so I so I found it to be not
hard work. I enjoyed it every single day. I just
had a good time doing it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, that's funny you say that, because I was fortunate
enough to talk to leed Better a couple of times.
He's like, you know, we can talk all you want.
He's like, let me tell you something. You get their
club face where it needs to be, you'll be all right,
you'll be all right, they'll be okay, they'll be okay.
He's he's like, you know, they all look a lot
pretty similar. He's like, but you know, don't don't get
bogged down and all this, all this stuff. He's like,
(27:53):
all the he called what did he call it, he
called all the rattlings. He's like, don't get bogged down,
the rattling, just just the peripheral.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, you can make it. Well, that that's huge. I
think play and path influenced the face a lot, so
there's a relationship there. I think also what really helped
me understanding information about the golf swing was uh Gary
Wyron's laws, principles and preferences. Do you remember that the
(28:28):
laws be the ball flight laws, the principles that supported
the laws, and then and then the preferences. And that
made me distinguish between for example, risk tunds would be
a principle and it would support clubhead, speed or plane
or whatever you want to talk about the laws, but
(28:50):
preferentially would be when when you when do you cock
your risk? Do you cock them early, you cack them later?
Do you downcock them in the downs? And that was
very helpful for me to categorize information what was really relevant.
And and then and then John Jacob's book He was
(29:14):
the father of teaching, is what Hank Haney would say.
But John Jacobs based basing his evaluation of the golf
swing on what the ball does. Right, you start with
bafflight and then come back to the conditions of impact
and then what's creating those conditions of impact. So that
(29:35):
helped me categorize information too. And so I just drank
all that up and I just felt like, any give
me any student, I know I'm going to be able
to help him, and that's fun So I didn't find
it to be hard work.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
So so then then let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So that's funny you say all that because you know,
you stand there and you watch people, and like you watch,
I'm I'm finding that the more informations out there that
that at least the people I interact with pretty regularly,
they lose sight of the fact that you know, they
really want to know where the golf club's going and
stuff like that. I'm like, you know what if you
(30:13):
can't get yourself aligned correctly, you know, you can't get
yourself set up to a pretty dynamically a pretty dynamic
set up, that golf club, that golf club will never
do what you wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And like they And when I talked to him about,
like I have that really.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Good player yesterday he was talking he's like a four
and you know this as well, talking play the tour,
but for handicap is a good player. Is a good player.
That's a good player. And he's like, well, you know
the balls turn this. I said, why don't we trying
to get you set up and you know kind of
like make sure that we're aligned correctly, and you know,
our spine angle is kind of pretty solid. And he's like, yeah,
but what's that going to do to the golf club. I said,
(30:48):
let's find out. Let's find out. Right I put you,
if I put if I put the foundation of your house,
probably you know I put some cement around it, you're
gonna start to find out that golf cluble move kind
of where you want it to because you're a good
enough player, you're gonna move it correctly.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yes, we gonna liminate interference. It's just limit your exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
You know, there's an order of progression, and you start
with pre slung fundamentals, no doubt about it. And then yeah,
then you see how that influences the rest of the stuff.
And then if it's not quite right, then you can
attack that. But no, I hear you, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
So oh so here, by the way, I'll do a
little flashback here. Did you ever spend time with Russ Sherba.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I knew Russ. I mean Russ was he was the
pro at rolling Hills right before he went to Valley Brook,
I think. And then there was a pro at rolling
Hills named Jimmy Lynch between Russ and me. But Russ
was over at Valley Brook, and yeah, I got to
(31:54):
know Russ a little bit. I didn't see a whole
lot of them, but I knew him. I knew him
well enough to know his personality and who he was.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, because the crazy, craziest thing in the world is again,
I'm like, you know this about the same time that
that Sam Deep Sticks, that fick tells me I fixed
the chef, which I didn't touch.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
And and and.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Russ came over because Rush was retired by that because
he was pretty, you know he was. And he came
over and he sat in the golf shop and I
was I was a little older than I was, about
nineteen then, and he looks at.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Me and he goes, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And that guy talked for twenty five minutes about the golf,
the golf business and how to treat people.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And of course, you know as well as I do,
every other word was g D. Every other word was
g D.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I still don't know how he didn't, but like then
he was talking to me, he's he's like, you know
what this and you know, you walk in and people
walk in, stand up, shake their hand, let him know
you're happy to be You're happy to see him, and
said and I'm going, my god, And it was like
a master class in twenty five minutes, sprinkled in with
eight million gds in there, because that's he had a
(33:05):
photo truth. And then then he goes, he goes, all right,
last thing, he goes, let me tell you something. He goes,
I went to the PGA in nineteen forty six, and
I saw that little dude couldn't get a club face
on it. That little man, he couldn't get a club
face on it. He goes, and he goes, he won
that damn event.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
He goes.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Then nineteen fifty, I go to the I go to
the US Open. It Marion, that little dude couldn't miss it.
And it took me like ten minutes to figure out
he was talking about Hugan and he goes, I watch,
he goes, I watched him for ten I watched him
for an hour in Portland. I watched him for an
hour in Philadelphia. He goes, it was a different guy.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
He goes.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
The only thing that was to say, he didn't talk
to me in forty six, didn't talk to me in fifty.
And I'm rolling on the floor because he's still it's like.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
He's standing all right.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So, Henry, that's my big rush or a story. So
now we're going to wrap up segment two. When we
get back, we're going to talk more about treetops and
about how all this how this massive success came to you.
This is the rich Comwell Golf Show. Welcome back to
the rich Comwoll Golf Show. And we are joined by
lifetime PGA member, life member of the PGA of America,
(34:19):
Henry Young. And Henry has incredible knowledge and incredible history
about the golf industry and the PGA of America. But
I wanted to spend the next few minutes just talking
about the massive growth that Henry created in Treetop's Michigan.
So how big did it get, Henry? Was it bigger
(34:40):
than you ever thought it would be?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
It depends on what you mean by big. You know,
we were busy, We were constantly busy. But we would
have a school of four people, and I would have
one assistant, one teaching assistant. I had six or eight
through the years that worked under me and work with me,
(35:06):
all great teachers. But we would have if we had
a three day school, it'd be two teachers and four
students and that was it. And obviously the purpose, and
you can appreciate this, Rich, is that learning, teaching and
(35:28):
learning the gospeling can be a complicated issue. And if
you have if you're doing a school and you're working
with four people by yourself or six people by yourself,
and two or three of those people are going to
have some serious issues. They're going to need more attention
(35:50):
than the others, but you're not going to be able
to give it to them. And I didn't want to
be in that position. So that was the advent of
our approach that our student to teacher ratio was never
going to be more than two to one. And probably
(36:11):
the proudest aspect for me and my teaching was in
that regard. When Golf Magazine started ranking golf schools, and
they only did it for maybe they did it bi
annually for maybe eight or ten years, but when the
(36:33):
first list came out top twenty five GoF Schools of America,
we were in there and we were the only school
that had a two to one ratio, the only one
of all of them. And I was proud of that,
and I think I think students recognize that and they
(36:53):
appreciated that. So as time went on, Rick's name was huge.
He's drawing people in. I'm there, I'm doing the schools.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
We're filling up these schools one right after another. The
three day half day school we called the Weekend Workshop.
We had one every weekend. We were filled up all
summer long May through into October, every single weekend. And
then we had three day full day school Tuesday, Wednesday, thursdays,
(37:36):
that kind of thing. They were full and I just
kept I just kept doing them and really really enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Right, it was probably easy. It was probably easy to
keep doing it because you did enjoy it. If it
had been a grind, that would have been.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
A grind for me. No, it was fun because part
of it was too. I was the more you teach,
the better you get. The more I teach more I
learned a lot from my students, and the more you
get a command for articulation, communication, visualization, drills, all the
(38:18):
things that we did to help people get better teaching, age,
so forth, and so on. I just it was it
was fun for me because I just enjoyed it. So, yeah,
go ahead, now, I was just going to say, you know,
(38:40):
you you gav me outline about things in my career
that I was most proud of, and those golf schools
and being recognized as a top twenty five golf school
when Golf Magazine did that, right, those rankings were based
solely on the quality of instruction. They sent a letter
(39:02):
out to us and stead, you know, they look at
your facility, number of teachers, student teacher, ratio, pricing, all
that other stuff, but the most important factor in their
rankings was customer satisfaction. So your students could go do
(39:22):
an online survey after they went to the schools. Right,
And that was the most satisfying thing to me, was
that we were ranked top twenty five basically because of
our student feedback. That's what I was most proud of.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right, Well, you should be. But so let me ask
you this question.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
You just mentioned six or seven guys that taught under you, like,
and they're obviously very very very good teachers, Like like,
name some of the people you mentored, because I see
and you can say whatever you want henry about about
they work with you, But you know what, they they
learned a lot from I guarantee they learned a lot
(40:05):
from you.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I guarantee you that well.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
It I'm sure they did. But I would I learned
a lot from some of them as well. You can
always learn something from from every every teacher. There's going
to be a different viewpoint. They're going to see something
a little differently, they're going to be able to express
something a little differently. So I would say I learned
(40:30):
something from all of the guys that worked under me,
you're not going to probably know or have heard of.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Of.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Maybe one or two. Uh, there was there's a fellow
by the name of Jim Schuman, who is Jerry Kelly's
brother in law, and you know he's from Wisconsin. And
Jim Schuman a great player in Wisconsin, a great teacher there.
He worked with me for a number of years. There
(41:05):
was a fella from Australia named Brett LeBrock who was
an outstanding teacher and he came and mentored under me.
We had a great relationship. He was terrific. Jim sower
Wine went to the University of North Carolina, played golf
(41:27):
with Davis Love and so on. He's in the Naples,
Florida area, and now he still teaches. So and there
were some other ones. There's a fellow by the name
of Jeff Goebel who still teaches up in Michigan. He
was working with me at Treetops. So there won't be
(41:50):
anyone that you would know that, say went on and
worked with tour players and made a name for himself.
But these were all great players, great individuals, you know, guys,
and great teachers. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
So okay, so let me ask you this question. Who's
the best player you ever taught. That's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, you know, I never worked with any tour players
per se. A couple of senior tour players. Buddy Witten
from Michigan.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, that's the most optim that's the most optimistic human
being ever. Buddy Witten's most optimistic human being you ever met?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
In your wife?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Is that right? You know him?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, I know, I know, I know of him. I know.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I know some guys in Michigan, you know, like Brian
Karns and stuff like that, and they're like and they're
like that guy like could hit it somewhere and he
figured out a way to look at it pretty good.
I'm like, okay, So yeah, Buddy went great player, great player.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Great player, good friend of mine as uh DJA player
for a little bit. And then a senior tour player
fellow by the name of Richie Bassett. And then I
got to know Harry Tascano. Well, yeah, I'm good friends
with Harry and Harry and I to this day we
(43:25):
uh double team his grandson Santino, who's an up and
coming great junior player up in in your area.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But so anyway, uh, I would go with Rick on
on certain occasions to tour events, and I work with
him and Jerry Kelly a little bit, watch him with
(43:59):
Brendan Steal, Yeah, with Roo and Lee and all those guys.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, So Jansen like he has something mentally that that's
different than everybody else, because you don't, you know, Like
I'm not saying he's obviously a very good player.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Obviously very good player, don't.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I'm not saying that, but like there's something about him
mentally that's different than everybody else. Because you just figured
out a way to win the US Open, actually more
than one of them, and it's like it's like, oh
my god, Like this guy's got the gig, He's got it.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Exactly how did he do that? Very surprising? Yeah, all
of a sudden you knew he could play, but to
be able to pulled up that well under that pressure
and when a US opened early in his career, that
(44:53):
just came out of nowhere. So yeah, he had that.
He definitely had that mental stress, thanks and confidence to
do it, and he did.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Twice. He did it twice.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's like Claude Harmon said to one of his sons,
because I have it and you don't, you know, I'm
not being I'm not trying. He goes, I'm and his son,
his son said that was the most honest thing, the
best thing he could ever said to me, because I
thought I could play and he looked at me. Because
I have it and you don't. It's okay, it's all right,
you know. So it doesn't make a bad person. I
have it and you don't.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
That's why I That's why I did what I did.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
So yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Henry, I've got less than two minutes now, and I
just want to tell you something.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
This has been so much fun. I mean, you have
no idea, you have no idea.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
How literally, Like I was sitting around, I was talking
to actually a guy that you know, Bob Sileara and
and he said, you know, you're looking for people that
want to be on that show.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Easy, I'll bet you Henry would do that. And I
didn't really think.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I didn't really think that you would, you, you know,
I mean, because you're you're a pretty famous guy. And
I'm like, no, I'm giving a shot, and like and
and and to tell you, you know, it's it's kind
of like we mentioned a lot of names today. It
maybe feel a lot younger than I really am and
but I gotta tell you, from the moment that I
(46:21):
was a little kid, I met you like you were
the definition of a PGA professional. Because I will tell
you this because because Slaira told me this, because you
were his caddy instructor at Saint Clair and he said
you dressed so well and you had a red spaulting bag.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I said to myself, if I could be that, I'd
be all right.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
And this and and and you and I remember one
day you said to me, said, you know, if I
could ever and I was a little kid, like, hey,
you have fun, That's what you said to me, have fun.
If I could ever help you, let me know, and
you walk through it because you had a million things
to do, and I was like, wow, Like, if I
could be that, I'd be all right. So just you know,
I know that you taught a lot of people, and
(46:59):
it's not just I just want you to know that
you had an impact on a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
And even if even if you don't think.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
About it every day, you probably should because you have.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And you're very kind. You're very kind to say that.
You're very kind, very flattering, and I appreciate that. I'm grateful,
very grateful for my time in that in the Pittsburgh
area and the people that I met, and I appreciate
your comments very much.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You bet so.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I wanted to say thanks again for being on the show,
and I'm just going to say thanks to Henry Young
for wrapping up season season four, episode one of the
Rich com walkof show.
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