January 30, 2026 • 34 mins
After going 0-3 in December on the second game of back-to-backs, the Rockets are 3-0 in January — and elite performances by 37-year-old Kevin Durant continue to be the biggest reason.
With Thursday’s win at Atlanta, Houston (29-17) remains at No. 4 in the Western Conference.
Hosted by Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, our “ClutchFans Live” postgame recap breaks down all the key takeaways. Topics include a strong defensive showing against the Hawks; encouraging signs from Durant, Clint Capela, and Jabari Smith Jr.; and a sluggish night from Alperen Sengun.
Friday’s show also looks ahead to next week’s in-season trade deadline and what it might look like for the Rockets, particularly after losing Steven Adams to a season-ending ankle injury.
With Thursday’s win at Atlanta, Houston (29-17) remains at No. 4 in the Western Conference.
Hosted by Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, our “ClutchFans Live” postgame recap breaks down all the key takeaways. Topics include a strong defensive showing against the Hawks; encouraging signs from Durant, Clint Capela, and Jabari Smith Jr.; and a sluggish night from Alperen Sengun.
Friday’s show also looks ahead to next week’s in-season trade deadline and what it might look like for the Rockets, particularly after losing Steven Adams to a season-ending ankle injury.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome in everybody to the Clutch Fans Live postgame show.
Rockets get to win one O four to eighty six
in Atlanta, the second game of a back to back
for both teams. Actually a very shorthanded Atlanta Hawks team
on the same by the same token, Rockets were missing
Tarry Easton and Dorian Finney Smith. But Rockets used the
second half surge close game throughout up until that mid
(00:25):
third quarter and they just kind of pulled away from
the Hawks and turned into a route. Like I said,
one of four eighty six. Kevin Durant continues to feast
as he's been essentially the MVP for this team. Twelve
of twenty two from the field, thirty one points and
got a lot of contributors in this game as well.
I'm here with Ben Dubos. You can follow him on
Twitter at Bendubos, read his stuff on Rockets Wire, on
(00:49):
USA Today and on Clutch Fans as well. Ben, I'm
you know, I'm curious your thoughts in this game. Obviously,
this wasn't the greatest test, this wasn't the San Antonio game,
but you know it's a good win.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, absolutely, Night two of a rode back to back
the way the Rockets started the season. In these situations,
you certainly shouldn't complain about it. I think at the
end of the day, this is a game that one
team had Kevin Durant, the other didn't, and ultimately that's
what won the day. I mean Kevin, the shape he
keeps his body in at thirty seven years old is phenomenal.
To be able to deliver like this on night two
(01:24):
of back to backs. I can't help but think back
to last month. It's a fascinating thought exercise. You know,
one month ago we were talking about the lack of
consistency and the highs and the lows. The Rockets had
all these big wins, but they had the awful losses.
It seems like the Kings, the Pelicans, the Trailblazers, and
now it feels like they're taking care of business on
(01:46):
these night two of back to backs. This is their
third straight win. The effort seems much more professional. Yet
the disconcerting thing last night against the Spurs and obviously
the Thunder game a couple of weeks ago. You've had
two games recently against up rational on competition in which
the Rockets offense just wasn't good enough, so the professionalism
(02:06):
it's a lot better right now, but I guess the
mid to late January Rockets, the concerns are back as
far as is this offense without Fred and Fleet going
to be good enough to contend for a championship? And
so which version would you prefer? It's a fascinating thought exercise,
but for me, I think I prefer this version, especially
because you have had some big wins. You did beat
the Spurs last week, you beat the Pistons last week,
(02:29):
and if you're going to ultimately fix the problems with
this team, you at least need to start with the
right spirit. You need to start with the right competitive
fire and for this team to go out and take
care of business against an under Manhawks team, I know
the Rockets were a little bit undermanned themselves, but they're
playing with the right respect for the game, and I
think that's where you've got to start. Like, there's some problems,
(02:50):
especially offensively, that in the aftermath of the first game
they've got to iron out. But at least in contrast
to December, this current version of the Rockets seems to
be taking the games much more serious, and I think
in the interim that's something to celebrate, even if there
are bigger challenges ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, I could KD tonight boy just made some really
really big shots as I mentioned twelve of twenty two,
and I think you summed it up nicely. The Rockets
had KDI, they did not. They're missing Jalen Johnson to
I obviously missing Porzingis who's been out, Okongwu, who's been
playing really well. They came in the Hawks did with
a four game winning streak. A Congwa was averaging eighteen
(03:28):
points in those four games. He has some sort of issue,
got hit. I lost up to something with Jaylen Brown
last night in Boston, so he was out in this game,
you know. So it was basically CJ. McCollum, Alexander Walker,
those guys. So they were missing some firepower definitely. But
I still love the way the Rockets responded. And again
(03:48):
Katie deserves all the flowers because this guy is you know,
when we have a bunch of players on this team
that struggle here and there. You know, obviously we saw
Jabari Reid has been struggling up until the second half
to night a little bit. It Shanngoon last couple of
games really struggling. KD for the most part, has been consistent.
He's had some bad games here and there shooting wise,
but it's just so deadly with that jumper. It's such
(04:11):
an asset. And I don't want We'll talk a little
bit about the trade here at the trade stuff at
the end today. But you know, it's such a tough
balance with looking at what KD can do for you
right now versus you've lost Steven Adams, You've lost Fred
van Vliet. It's very hard to fill those things. What
do you do at the deadline. We'll talk about that
for sure. A few other players tonight. I want to
(04:32):
talk about Jabari Smith Junior, going back to his hometown
Atlanta tonight. Just five of twelve from the field, two
of six from three. Nothing that jumps off the page there,
but did have a career high five blocks tonight, three
steals as well. Was very active eight boards and a
plus fifteen for the team. I thought it was a
really good game for him. You know, he missed a
(04:52):
couple shots that I'm you know, I shook my head
going to know, Jabari, you know that that's just frustrating.
Maybe an open three, but had the night I drive
where he kind of went right and fed Capella for
the alley oops, something we don't see often from him.
Had a transition put the ball on the floor and
blow past his guy for a dunk that you don't
see very often from him as well. I just thought
(05:14):
he was active. Maybe it was part of going home
and his family being there. But Jabari had a good
game today.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, absolutely, Both Jabari and Reid had five made shots
and multiple made three pointers and that just goes so
far to relieving the pressure on Kevin Durant and all
print Shinoon. Shingoon did not have an efficient shooting night,
although I think you have to put an asterisk on
this when he was questionable going in today with the
ankles frame which he seemed to reaggravate against the first
I think he was gutting it out because this Rockets team,
(05:42):
especially the way last night ended blowing a sixteen point
lead and losing by double digits, This would have been
a bad one to lose, and I think Shangoon just
wanted to give it whatever he had to get them
this win. And they're coming home for Dallas on Saturday night,
and they'll reevaluate in the next twenty four hours. I'm
sure they got the win. That's what matters. And when
(06:02):
you have this version of Jabari and Reid that is
able to make some shots, including threes, it does so
much to space the floor. I mean, we talk about
the way the Spurs, and I do think you know
some of the issues in the second half against the Spurs.
People ask the question, why doesn't every team defend the
Rockets the way the Spurs did with the five just
(06:23):
sort of sagging off a men and defending the rim. Well,
every team doesn't have victor Winmbanyama like that strategy is
a lot more effective when the guy that's sagging off
and trying to hedge is seven foot five and athletic freak,
maybe the biggest in the history of the NBA, and
is able to recover in ways that most teams can't.
But I do think to the larger point, this team
(06:43):
does need more spacing, and so when Jabari and Reid
are able to make shots in space the floor, it
does so much to let the big guns operate. And
even if Shangoon couldn't tonight, Katie could and against an
under Manhawks team it was enough. I also think we
should point out Defensively, I believe eighty six points was
the lowest the Rockets have held an opponent two all year.
(07:06):
So this is a culture wet and that's what I
keep going back to, And I think there's a lot
of positives to take in that regard. There are some
offensive questions that this team needs to resolve, but to
hold any opponent to eighty six points, especially on the road,
I don't care if it's not too back to back,
you're playing hard, you're playing together. I thought Clint Capella
(07:26):
looked really good in his minutes with rebounding and rem protection.
I just think overall, if you're going to fix the
Rockets this year to where they have any chance at
all to make some noise and content for a championship,
you've got to get back to the formula from a
year ago. Defensively, that's what this team does at its best,
That's what Ima Rudoka has become known for over his
(07:47):
time in the NBA. Fix the defense, and then let's
hope that as the weeks progress, maybe they get Frevan
Fleet back in some capacity. Before you get to April,
let's hope that the offense as the season moves long,
can can start to put this together. It's got to
start with defense, and on that side, I think it's
looked better in recent games. They haven't had the lapses
(08:08):
against bad opponents that they did in December, and I
thought tonight specifically, that's something that the Rockets can hang
their hat on. They seem to really respond. This team
needed to win, and it started with defense and really
from the outset, this is one of the better efforts
in a while.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the Spurs game. I
don't want to change subject. We'll come right back to
the Hawks game. But I did watch the second half
where I should say, most of the entire third and
some of the fourth of the Spurs game before I
went in there tonight, and the Rockets lost that lead.
With Luke Cornett on the floor, Wenby was gone, it was.
They had eleven point lead the third quarter, it got
wiped out with Cornett and Keldon Johnson, you know who
(08:44):
was guarding Shinun at that point in time. I think
amend was even off on the floor for a stretch. Now,
the fourth quarter was what we saw, so we can
definitely talk about those points. But another thing to throw
out there, Stephan Castle and Dylan Harper both can't shoot either.
They're both really struggle to shoot from three point range.
They're not as bad as a men Thompson, but they're
(09:04):
both in the twenty percentile twenty four percent, twenty five
percent really bad. So it's something that they're going to
have to figure out. I mean, the issues with Shangun
to men on offense and the issues with Shangun read
on defense our topic for another day, but that is
a long term concern no matter how you look at it.
We'll talk about Shangoon some more later. Read Shepherd tonight
(09:26):
couldn't make anything in the first half. And this is
a story we've said many times, been like read first
half not good, Read second half good Tonight. I think
he was zero for three in the first half from
three point range. I think he was one for eight
maybe from the from the field. Ended up going four
for six from the field, hit three threes. In the
(09:48):
second half. I think he was three for four, so
he had a much better second half. Read Tonight, and
his connection with Cappella seems to be legit like reading
Cappella to have something going on. It's really a nice
fit because Capella's that brings that better rimp protection. He's
a little bit older, but he is, you know, a
(10:09):
known rimp protector that helps read certainly on the back
line of defensively. And then he's got a lob threat.
We're gonna use that term from the Silas days, but
he's got a lob threat in Clint as well. So
I'm liking what I'm seeing from reading Clint.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, let's talk about Clint, because I don't think he
played in the second half against the Spurs. Is that right?
If he did, it was like to con minent.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I believe he did not, but I can't say if
he came in for a few minutes around. I didn't
see him play specifically, but I need to go back.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
To realitionship and so I think this is something that
with Steven Adams out for the year, which has a
few implications, and we'll talk about that in a few
minutes when we talk about the trade deadline implications. Trade
deadline is one week from today. But Clint tonight ten
point seven boards to assists, two blocks in eighteen minutes,
rockets plus seventeen. They were plus seventeen with Cappella plus
(11:01):
five with Shinoon that's not me throwing shade at Shangoon.
I acknowledge he was definitely playing hurt tonight, but it
does show that Capella lifted them in his minutes. And
yet it feels like even when Stephen hasn't played this year,
Cappella has largely played token minutes. He's been the backup
center in the first half. But if Stephen isn't available
(11:23):
in the second half either, well, typically they'll do a
combination of extended Shindun minutes and small ball Jabari at
the five. And what I'm wondering after tonight, is this
a point where the Rockets should give Clint Capella a
longer runway. I did some checking in today and folks
inside the building will tell you, like Clint has much
more gas in the tank than people on the outside
(11:45):
thought going into this year, Like they are really impressed
with physically how his body looks and what he's still
able to do at thirty one years old now in
his second decade in the NBA. What I heard internally
is that Clint still needs to get better at learning
the playbook and what the expectations are for the Rockets.
He hasn't been here in the imay Udoka era, So
(12:06):
in contrast to some of his teammates that have been
in the system for a while, this is all new
terminology and new system for Clent and so in the
super high leverage minutes, e May is still learning to
trust Clint. But I'm wondering if now with Steven out
and Jabari. You know, he played better tonight, but it's
been a bad month for Jabari overall totally. Is this
(12:27):
a point in which ima Udoka may have no choice
but to rip the band aid off and trust Clint
Capella a little bit more? Because athletically Dave, he looks
good like he's he's a loft trette. As you mentioned,
he protects the rim. I think he has some synergies
with with Reid that help mitigate his deficiencies on the
defensive end. Read that is like, I know it's not
(12:49):
easy for a coach like imy Udoka. You know someone
mentioned defensively the Rockets not having the personnel this year
that Emy wants. Maybe not tonight, but I do think
moving forward that with Tari and DFS Rockets, maybe it's
not quite as much as a year ago, but they've
got some defensive pieces and I think Clint, with the
rum protection, the athleticism, can fit into that as well.
It's just to this point, at least as I understand it,
(13:12):
the Rockets have been a little hesitant to play him
high leverage minutes because he's still getting used to the
terminology the new team. What his responsibilities are as the
back line of this defense. I'm wondering now with Steven
Adams out, like these are not bit minutes anymore. Steven
is not coming back. Yeah, So is this the time
that you know, your midway through the year, you have
(13:34):
what two and a half months until the playoffs, that
you just rip the band aid off and don't make
Clint Capella the part time backup center, making the backup
center in each half. Give him fifteen plus minutes per
game because athletically he looks the part. He looks really good.
He was a huge part of their success tonight. They
haven't really eighteen him in these big games to this point.
Maybe it's time they do.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, four for four tonight, as you pointed out, plus
seventeen eighteen minutes for Clint Capella looked really good tonight.
So yeah, he's so far filling the role of Steven
Adams say, you know a little bit different. Obviously he's better.
I think a little bit better rimp protector than Adams.
Adams is an elite screen set or elite offensive rebounder.
Capella's pretty darn good himself, but Adams is another level. Yeah,
(14:16):
I think you might be right. I think you got
to start playing Clint. And I think especially in those
read minutes.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And so if Shangoon has an off night, or if
god forbid, he needs another week or two off to
rest that ankle, you need another legit body at center,
Like if if Shangoon needs to shut it down for
a while, and I'm not saying that's the case now,
but when you see him having repeated issues with the
same ankle, you do have to worry about that. I
don't think we're anywhere near a point in which you
(14:43):
want to make Jabari Smith a full time five like.
I do not think that would go well right now,
especially with the other elements of his game all suffering
in recent weeks. So just as far as a hedge
for Shininggoon, if he's having a bad night or if
he gets hurt again, then I think there's a lot
of value in having Clint, you know, if you need
him ready to play twenty five thirty minutes. I'm not
saying that that they should play him twenty five thirty
(15:05):
minutes on Saurday night against Dallas, but you know, if
you want to potentially have him available for that down
the road, then maybe you need to start consistently playing
him for fifteen each way.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, well, I'll see, And I wish Shangun had sat tonight.
To be honest with you, I don't know if if
he's if he's dealing with his ankle or not, but
I mean it was obvious from the get go seven
to nothing Hawks right out of the gate, and there
were two at least two just bad defensive plays by
Shnggon where he just looks slow and uh Coloco and
(15:35):
uh Mohammed Gay. I believe how you say it did
a really good job just being very physical with him.
Now they're not giving them the whistles as often. They're definitely,
you know, pushing on him and everything. But he couldn't
make bunnies at all tonight free for fourteen from the field.
You know, he did get some offensive boards, which is great.
I think he had seven tonight, thirteen total rebounds, and
(15:58):
he did have three blocks. But this was not a
good shng gun game at all. I met of fact,
I think he had I think he had seven points
in a half. He must have scored just two in the
first half or in the second half. Excuse me, but anyway,
you know, he had a rough second half against the
Spurs and now this so I don't know if it
is an ankle thing or not. He just came off
(16:19):
of a fifteen to seventeen game against Memphis, so we'll
see how this plays out and Rockets play again on Saturday.
Josha Kogi, we want to talk about him. I thought
he was brilliant tonight. Hit threes three of five from deep,
but seven offensive rebounds a career high. As pointed out
on the broadcast. I think his previous career high on
offensive boards was four. A Kogi just brought the effort
(16:42):
tonight and I thought he made a significant impact.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, A Kogi, Capella, Jayshawn Tate all played eighteen plus minutes.
We talk about wanting to see the Rockets take the
games more professionally and have the defensive effort more consistent.
When three guys of your top eight in the rotation
or those three, it's going to be pretty hard not to.
And so it starts with a Kogi. We've mentioned in
(17:06):
recent shows that his minutes have been on the way
up for a while. But yeah, when you have his
energy on the floor, flying around, and then you supplement
that with guys like Tate and Capella who always play
hard in their minutes, and obviously Aman Thompson is a
top shelf defensive player. Every night, you just have so
many above average defensive pieces out on the floor that
(17:27):
guys who might otherwise fade in the background or say, well,
it's night two of it, back to back, I don't
have the legs. You're less likely to do that if
if you're going to stand out like a sore thumb,
if you're the weak link in the chain. And so
I think, especially in this situation, night two of us
split back to back, Joshua Koge, Clint Capella, Jayshon Tate,
let's give them their flowers because they set a standard
(17:48):
that I think you guys like Reach Shepherd and Jabari
Smith Junior that can go either way at times with
their effort. We talk Jabari during his shooting slump and
the impact that's had, at least in the metrics on
his defense. That's less likely to happen when you're playing
with guys like Josh and Jason that are flying around.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Let's talk, you know, we don't need to go super
long tonight. Obviously this wasn't the greatest matchup for these
two you know, these two teams. But I want to
talk to you about the trade stuff. We talked a
little bit about it yesterday with Adams Spolane who joined me.
But the Kobe White rumors are out there. The trade deadline,
I believe is February fifth coming up. I'd love to
hear what your thoughts on that, but in general, but
(18:29):
also just what you think they not necessarily specifics, but
could be looking to do as they get closer to
the deadline. Given you've you've lost Adams for the year,
and you know Fred may or may not come back,
and if he does, is he going to be you know,
giving you much. So you've got maybe some a need
at center, maybe a need at point guard. What do
you think?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I've done some digging and I think the Kobe
White scenario is unlikely. I think there's sort of a
game of telephone there. There was one somewhat ballet report
out of the Chicago Sun Times, and then a bunch
of what I would call engagement beata accounts on Twitter
that ran with it. Yeah, I think you know. I'm
not going to throw shade at the original reporter, but
(19:11):
I do think the Rockets are a classic team that's
going to get used for leverage, and that there's a
narrative out there that this team needs a point guard.
And everyone knows they have a thirty seven year old
Kevin Durant in all NBA forms, So it's easy to
connect the dots, and if you're trying to sell a guard, say, oh,
the Rockets are conceivably interested. In the case of Kobe White,
I just I don't think they view him as a
(19:32):
point guard along the lines of Fredman Fleet. I think
they see a lot of overlap similar to guys they
already have on the roster, like Kevin Durant and Read Shepherd,
And so there's just not enough of a distinguishing factor
when it comes to Kobe White for it to be
worth what it would take to get him in the trade,
especially give him the contractual uncertainty. The only reason the
Bulls are considering trading him is because he's an unrestricted
(19:54):
free agent this summer. And there was a tweet. I
forget who it was, but I've read it to tweet
today that summed it up. Well. Someone made the case
the Rockets shouldn't decrease their odds next year from twenty
percent to ten percent to take their odds from five
percent to ten percent this year. And I don't know
if those numbers are anywhere close to accurate, but I
(20:16):
do think the overarching point is a good one. It's
not just about this season. The Rockets have talked over
and over again about building a sustainable contender. And the
reason they acquired Kevin Durant it wasn't just because oh,
we've got to acquire Kevin Durant. As much as people say, well,
he's thirty seven year old and he's great, how long
is this prime gonna last? The Rockets acquired him because
(20:36):
it was at a low price point to where they
could fit him in with their existing young core and
he could help the development and maybe they win a
title or contend for title in the interim. But that
wasn't you know, it wasn't a truly win now move.
It was to help them move forward in the process.
But it wasn't title or bust, is the way that
I would put it. They went for Katie because he
(20:58):
fit within their existing core and the timelines, and so
they're not going to go out of their way unless
it's a move that truly moves the needle. And what
I mean by that is, you know, a trade for
Kobe White or any salary of significance. The Rockets are
hard capped at the first apron, so they have to
(21:18):
send out close to as much money as they take it. Well,
who are they sending out. It's not easy to send
out Quint Capella anymore because there's no Stephen Adams, So
if you want to win a title, you need at
least two reliable centers. So Clint's suddenly much more important.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, I will say people are suggesting Adams, and I
don't agree with it, but I'm saying that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yes, And that's the other point. If it's not Capella,
then I see a lot of Fred Stephen or Doriy
Anthony Smith used as matching salary. And I said this
with Fred early in the year, and I'll say the
same thing with Stephen and DFS. Even though DFS is playing,
he's basically, you know, i'd say like a partial participant
at this point because he's clearly limited coming off the
ankle injury. The Rockets believe in these guys long term.
(22:00):
In October, the Rockets fully believe that all three of
those guys, Fred, Dorian and Steven are going to be
full of participants in training camp. They're thirty two years
old or younger, and they are going to be good
rotation players next season. Now you can say assuming health,
but that's quite literally true of any NBA player. So
from the Rockets perspective, any move they make, as far
(22:21):
as moving one of those guys for a Kobe White
or anyone else that gets brought up, it would be
just for this season. Going into next season, they feel
good about their rotation. Like you add Fred Steven and
a thirty minutes per game version of doriy Anfonty Smith
to what you have now you already have a full rotation.
So any upgrade you make would just be about this season.
(22:45):
And so for it to be worthwhile to use one
of those pieces as matching salary, it needs to really
move the needle. I just don't think Kobe White does
he's a nice player. But you know, it wasn't even
sure before let's go back to September fifteenth, Even before
Fred Bensley tearches ACL. I don't think it was a
given that the Rockets were at the tier of Oklahoma City.
(23:05):
We were hopeful if they could could give it, you know,
a nice run, and the Rockets would be you know,
in the ballgame, so to speak. But even when they
were believed to be at full health, and we didn't
know about the Drori and Face Smith injury at that
point either, it was still a little bit of a
heavy lift. Now and you take out not only Fred
but also Stephen, are you really convinced, Dave that you
(23:27):
add Kobe White and this is a team that can
beat Oklahoma City four times out of seven. I'm not like,
I don't mean that to be pessimistic. I just think
that'st reality. Now. You know, maybe you get lucky and
kd has like a historic run, or maybe the Thunder
or whoever you play, has you know, some ill timed
injuries that help you out. I mean, yeah, it's possible. Like,
I'm not saying the Rockets can't win a title, But
(23:48):
what I'm saying is that you don't acquire a Kobe
White and then say this is a championship level team, right,
it would make you better, but I still think there
would be some clear deficiencies. And again with Kobe, I
don't think they really view him as a Fred VanVleet type.
He's closer to you know, guys they already have on
the roster in terms of role. He's closer to a
two guard, and the Rockets already feel pretty good at
(24:09):
that position with how they use Kevin Durant and Reach Shepherd.
So I just think I've got to consider not just
this season, but next season. And if the only upgrade
is for this year, and you're already down two rotation players,
two key rotation players and Fred and Stevens, so your
odds already diminished, is it really worth it if you
(24:30):
have to take away a key player from next season's team.
That's what I keep coming back to.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean they have to keep long term in
mind for sure, the player that kind of I think
it's very difficult. I don't see it being possible, but
I think could actually really help them as a Jiu
Holiday type, a significant leader type, a Mike Conley in
his prime. You know, obviously Fred VanVleet, if they could
get him back, you know, somebody like that that could
(24:55):
stabilize the team a little bit more. I love seeing
amend of develop and I think Reid I like seeing
that that happen. I think that's what's going to be
a key focus the rest of the way. But that's
kind of what I the type that I think it
would take. I don't look at Kobe White, as good
as he is. He's a good scorer, you know, I
don't see that being the game changer for them, and
I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Think that he's not.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I don't think they are.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Like right, knowledge that at point guard along the lines
of Fred than Fleet could help them. I just don't
think Kobe White is that guy.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, I want to ask you about Yiannis too. We've
talked about it a lot, I know, but the report
came out to McMahon saying Rockets are just saying we're
as as patient as ever. I'm surprised by it. Obviously
we have both talked, you know, to different people with
the Rockets in the past. I know they had interest
in Jannis pre Kevin Durant, that that summer. It didn't
(25:43):
come to fruition as far as him even being available.
I am a little thrown off by this, but I
did point this out yesterday to Adam Is you know
there's a tweet out there from Mark Stein and from
you know, other sources a year ago today, more or
less just before the deadline, of saying the Rockets, you know,
are not interested in Kevin Durant. They are patient. They
(26:03):
want to see what this team looks like in the playoffs,
and I think that's what they want to do. They
want to give this team a shot and then make
adjustments in the summer. So if you want Yannis on
the Rockets, if that's what your view is, I think
you got to hope he doesn't does not get traded
at this deadline, and he's an option in the summer.
But it just it throws me off.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Man.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I'll let you speak because I feel like the Rockets
their philosophy has been these type of guys don't come
on the block very often. Sure, you get a Jimmy Butler,
you get other stars, but Yannis is a superstar, a
top three, top four player in the league. Yes, he's
dealing with a couple of calf injuries that are scary
this year. But you don't get these guys very often,
(26:45):
and so I'm a little thrown off by it, to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I will say it's a little different than the
Lucas scenario from a year ago, and that Luca was
twenty five, if Yannis was twenty five. They take the
talent and worry about everything else later to go from
a twenty three year old all per inching goon or
a twenty two year old a mentops. And although I
don't think amends on the table in any scenario, I
think he's as unfashiable as it gets for a thirty
(27:09):
one year old yachtis. I mean, that's a big age
gap and in a perfect role. I think the Rockets
just philosophically, and some people will disagree, but I think
the Rockets would rather have you know, a ten year
window of you know, a pretty good chance every year
than a two or three year window with a very
good chance, simply because they've learned the hard way. So
(27:29):
many things can go wrong. We saw this in twenty eighteen.
You can have an all time team and you can
have one of your star players spilling a hamstring at
the worst moment and then it all goes out. And
so I think this team, especially in the aftermath of
what happens early in the Tilburn Forteita ownership tenure, is
very cognizant of keeping that window open as long as possible.
(27:51):
And the idea is that some years the bounces will
go your way, the health gods will smile upon you,
however you want to frame it. The idea is that
the longer window gives you more bites at the apple,
and I think that's something that under Chilman, Fritida, under
Rafel's Stone, the Rockets have consistently prioritized. With that said,
we did see, you know, a lot of what shifted
(28:11):
last year with Katie was the Sun's asking price came down,
and I'm skeptical that the Bucks will see their asking
price come down to nearly the same extent with a
thirty one year old Giannis. But you do have to
note Giannis this summer will be one year from when
he can become a free agent, and so that gives
him a lot of control, and so it's not unfathomable
that maybe he can, you know, depress his market enough
(28:33):
between being one year from free agency and coming off
multiple calf strains, maybe his market is you know, a
lot less than you would normally think for a player
of his caliber, one of three or four best in
the world. So I agree with you. I don't think
it's going to happen by the trade deadline, but you know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
In general, you don't think he'll be traded period.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Well, no, I don't think it's happening with the Rockets.
Oh yeah, traded by the trade deadline. But I'm agreeing
with you that. You know, the hope is that if
I was to rank it, I would say I hope
he doesn't get traded anywhere because I would love to
keep the door open. And then secondly, I would want
him to get traded to you know, Miami, Miami N
Conference team, and then the worst case scenarios, it gets
(29:14):
traded now, but he goes to you know, a Golden State,
a San Antonio, somewhere.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Like that, Minnesota, What a disaster that would be for us.
I think if he gets traded in Minnesota and Windhorse.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
That goes to the top tier.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, I mean Windhorse one of the most credible there
is out there saying there's real smoke to that that
he wants to play with Anthony Edwards, and it's like, man,
that would not I don't know if they could pull
that off. They don't have like these, you know, slew
of picks, and so Milwaukee's gonna have to want, you know,
a Randall or Nasried and Jade McDaniels, those type of players.
But if they could pull that off, that's that's pretty scary.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That impacts us.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
So Miami best case scenario if it does get if
he does get traded.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And to preview one of our upcoming shows, We've got
Michael Shapiro of Crime dot Com coming on I believe Monday,
which will be about me two hours before the deadline,
or really about sixty hours, so I think it's midday
on Thursday. And I was talking to Michael at the
game last night. We're at Toyota Center for Spurs Rockets,
and he was telling me, you know, he agrees it's
(30:12):
not happening by the deadline with the Rockets, but he
would not rule out the possibility this summer. And Dave,
you can follow up with him on Monday if you want.
But I think he looks at it very similarly to
the way you do, and that for a lot of reasons.
It doesn't make sense. Now, the Rockets, in a perfect world,
want this longer window. They want the sustainable contender. But
if this thing goes south, if they underperform in the playoffs,
(30:36):
and especially if point of your big guns sort of
fades under the lights for one reason or another, or
perhaps you know Shingoon or Amen, someone like that underachieves
because of you know, the way an opposing team chooses
to defend them, or the matchup or whatever the case
may be. Then yeah, like they're open to revisiting. We saw,
you know, the Rockets change course. They talked all last
(30:56):
year about you know, loving the course seven, and after
the way the Warriors series went, something clearly changed. You know,
they went for KD. But before they went for KD,
there was talk at the beginning of the off season
that the Rockets are most intrigued by Giannis, and ultimately
they didn't go down that road. Yannis didn't get traded
at all. They traded for KD. But I bring all
that up to say it's all subject to change, and
I don't think the Rockets want to do that move.
(31:18):
I think they want to proceed with a young core
and I think, just philosophically, they want the window open
as long as possible. So I think in a perfect role,
they won't have to trade for Yannis. But depending what
happens in the playoffs, depending what else happens around the NBA,
and what your competition looks like. I mean, if the
Thunder do it again and look like a super team,
I mean maybe maybe that's the point in which you say, hey, like,
(31:39):
just as the Rockets in the late twenty ten, so
let's pair James Hard and Chris Paul and go after
the Warriors. Maybe they say, let's peer up Kevin Durant
and Yannis and that's the only way you can chase
down the Thunder. Like. I'm not saying for sure that's
gonna happen, but I think, you know, if he doesn't
get traded at the dubline, it would be foolish to
rule it out absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I'll just say I think Shanghun needs to have a
good place showing Rockets hopefully. Yeah, I think this dings,
you know, the injuries does ding their championship window. I'm
not saying they can't do it, I mean, not window
their chances this year. I'm not saying they can't do it. Yeah, odds,
But I want that to see them win a series.
I want to see him make some noise in the playoffs,
and you have to I think this is what again,
(32:18):
So do I in the chat asked about buyouts. Let's
revisit that in a week. I do think that buyouts
are much more likely to be the route that the
that the Rockets pursue because if these guys we talked
about a filler salaries Capella and then the three injured guys,
and including DFS and that because he's not fully available yet,
(32:38):
if they're off limits, because you know, the Rockets aren't
going to sell them low. They're going to value them
for next season then beyond, and so that the values
you're not going to line up to where it makes
sense to deal for a guy now, especially with you know,
the Rockets were cautious in negotiations with tarry Eathan, and
they would also be cautious in negotiations with with Kobe White,
because this team's going to be very expensive, Like a
(32:59):
lot of guys in the market this summer or in
the market at this deadline, they're going to become free
agents this summer and so there's a level of contractual uncertainty.
I don't think the Rockets are going to bid super
aggressively financially, and that's another factor to consider because this
team is going to be very expensive. So if you're
comparing a Kobe White who's about to be an unrestricted
free agent, to guys who are on friendly contracts like dfs,
like Brad like Steven Adams, I mean, that's another reason
(33:21):
to sort of to stay the course. And so if
you take all of them out of play, and you're
just looking primarily at guys making closer to the minimum,
and you know, at that point you're looking sort of
bottom of the barrel moves at the margins, and the
Rockets can't really aggregate salaries because they're hard gaped at
the first apron. The likely scenario, in my opinion, is that.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
You just wait until after the deadline and you get
someone via the buyout market. And I haven't won't speculating
who that is yet because we don't know who's going
to get traded and who isn't. But I do think
that conceptually the buyout market is likely to be where
the Rockets go for a player of that stature and
as far as who that is, we can talk about
that in a week once the doubline passes.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, Looney is who I have my eyes on, but
we'll see how We'll see how that plays out. Appreciate you, Ben,
Please follow If you don't already follow Ben, follow him
on Blue Sky on Twitter at bend Bo's possibly on
Instagram too. I'm not sure if that's your handle there, Ben,
But appreciate everybody for tuning in tonight to the post
game you can. You can obviously find it here on
Clutch Fans YouTube, also on the Rockets Launch Pod. Ben
(34:23):
has the audio up on that podcast as well, So
appreciate all of you. We will see you all Saturday
night when the Rockets take on the Dallas Mavericks.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Thanks everyone,
Welcome in everybody to the Clutch Fans Live postgame show.
Rockets get to win one O four to eighty six
in Atlanta, the second game of a back to back
for both teams. Actually a very shorthanded Atlanta Hawks team
on the same by the same token, Rockets were missing
Tarry Easton and Dorian Finney Smith. But Rockets used the
second half surge close game throughout up until that mid
(00:25):
third quarter and they just kind of pulled away from
the Hawks and turned into a route. Like I said,
one of four eighty six. Kevin Durant continues to feast
as he's been essentially the MVP for this team. Twelve
of twenty two from the field, thirty one points and
got a lot of contributors in this game as well.
I'm here with Ben Dubos. You can follow him on
Twitter at Bendubos, read his stuff on Rockets Wire, on
(00:49):
USA Today and on Clutch Fans as well. Ben, I'm
you know, I'm curious your thoughts in this game. Obviously,
this wasn't the greatest test, this wasn't the San Antonio game,
but you know it's a good win.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, absolutely, Night two of a rode back to back
the way the Rockets started the season. In these situations,
you certainly shouldn't complain about it. I think at the
end of the day, this is a game that one
team had Kevin Durant, the other didn't, and ultimately that's
what won the day. I mean Kevin, the shape he
keeps his body in at thirty seven years old is phenomenal.
To be able to deliver like this on night two
(01:24):
of back to backs. I can't help but think back
to last month. It's a fascinating thought exercise. You know,
one month ago we were talking about the lack of
consistency and the highs and the lows. The Rockets had
all these big wins, but they had the awful losses.
It seems like the Kings, the Pelicans, the Trailblazers, and
now it feels like they're taking care of business on
(01:46):
these night two of back to backs. This is their
third straight win. The effort seems much more professional. Yet
the disconcerting thing last night against the Spurs and obviously
the Thunder game a couple of weeks ago. You've had
two games recently against up rational on competition in which
the Rockets offense just wasn't good enough, so the professionalism
(02:06):
it's a lot better right now, but I guess the
mid to late January Rockets, the concerns are back as
far as is this offense without Fred and Fleet going
to be good enough to contend for a championship? And
so which version would you prefer? It's a fascinating thought exercise,
but for me, I think I prefer this version, especially
because you have had some big wins. You did beat
the Spurs last week, you beat the Pistons last week,
(02:29):
and if you're going to ultimately fix the problems with
this team, you at least need to start with the
right spirit. You need to start with the right competitive
fire and for this team to go out and take
care of business against an under Manhawks team, I know
the Rockets were a little bit undermanned themselves, but they're
playing with the right respect for the game, and I
think that's where you've got to start. Like, there's some problems,
(02:50):
especially offensively, that in the aftermath of the first game
they've got to iron out. But at least in contrast
to December, this current version of the Rockets seems to
be taking the games much more serious, and I think
in the interim that's something to celebrate, even if there
are bigger challenges ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, I could KD tonight boy just made some really
really big shots as I mentioned twelve of twenty two,
and I think you summed it up nicely. The Rockets
had KDI, they did not. They're missing Jalen Johnson to
I obviously missing Porzingis who's been out, Okongwu, who's been
playing really well. They came in the Hawks did with
a four game winning streak. A Congwa was averaging eighteen
(03:28):
points in those four games. He has some sort of issue,
got hit. I lost up to something with Jaylen Brown
last night in Boston, so he was out in this game,
you know. So it was basically CJ. McCollum, Alexander Walker,
those guys. So they were missing some firepower definitely. But
I still love the way the Rockets responded. And again
(03:48):
Katie deserves all the flowers because this guy is you know,
when we have a bunch of players on this team
that struggle here and there. You know, obviously we saw
Jabari Reid has been struggling up until the second half
to night a little bit. It Shanngoon last couple of
games really struggling. KD for the most part, has been consistent.
He's had some bad games here and there shooting wise,
but it's just so deadly with that jumper. It's such
(04:11):
an asset. And I don't want We'll talk a little
bit about the trade here at the trade stuff at
the end today. But you know, it's such a tough
balance with looking at what KD can do for you
right now versus you've lost Steven Adams, You've lost Fred
van Vliet. It's very hard to fill those things. What
do you do at the deadline. We'll talk about that
for sure. A few other players tonight. I want to
(04:32):
talk about Jabari Smith Junior, going back to his hometown
Atlanta tonight. Just five of twelve from the field, two
of six from three. Nothing that jumps off the page there,
but did have a career high five blocks tonight, three
steals as well. Was very active eight boards and a
plus fifteen for the team. I thought it was a
really good game for him. You know, he missed a
(04:52):
couple shots that I'm you know, I shook my head
going to know, Jabari, you know that that's just frustrating.
Maybe an open three, but had the night I drive
where he kind of went right and fed Capella for
the alley oops, something we don't see often from him.
Had a transition put the ball on the floor and
blow past his guy for a dunk that you don't
see very often from him as well. I just thought
(05:14):
he was active. Maybe it was part of going home
and his family being there. But Jabari had a good
game today.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, absolutely, Both Jabari and Reid had five made shots
and multiple made three pointers and that just goes so
far to relieving the pressure on Kevin Durant and all
print Shinoon. Shingoon did not have an efficient shooting night,
although I think you have to put an asterisk on
this when he was questionable going in today with the
ankles frame which he seemed to reaggravate against the first
I think he was gutting it out because this Rockets team,
(05:42):
especially the way last night ended blowing a sixteen point
lead and losing by double digits, This would have been
a bad one to lose, and I think Shangoon just
wanted to give it whatever he had to get them
this win. And they're coming home for Dallas on Saturday night,
and they'll reevaluate in the next twenty four hours. I'm
sure they got the win. That's what matters. And when
(06:02):
you have this version of Jabari and Reid that is
able to make some shots, including threes, it does so
much to space the floor. I mean, we talk about
the way the Spurs, and I do think you know
some of the issues in the second half against the Spurs.
People ask the question, why doesn't every team defend the
Rockets the way the Spurs did with the five just
(06:23):
sort of sagging off a men and defending the rim. Well,
every team doesn't have victor Winmbanyama like that strategy is
a lot more effective when the guy that's sagging off
and trying to hedge is seven foot five and athletic freak,
maybe the biggest in the history of the NBA, and
is able to recover in ways that most teams can't.
But I do think to the larger point, this team
(06:43):
does need more spacing, and so when Jabari and Reid
are able to make shots in space the floor, it
does so much to let the big guns operate. And
even if Shangoon couldn't tonight, Katie could and against an
under Manhawks team it was enough. I also think we
should point out Defensively, I believe eighty six points was
the lowest the Rockets have held an opponent two all year.
(07:06):
So this is a culture wet and that's what I
keep going back to, And I think there's a lot
of positives to take in that regard. There are some
offensive questions that this team needs to resolve, but to
hold any opponent to eighty six points, especially on the road,
I don't care if it's not too back to back,
you're playing hard, you're playing together. I thought Clint Capella
(07:26):
looked really good in his minutes with rebounding and rem protection.
I just think overall, if you're going to fix the
Rockets this year to where they have any chance at
all to make some noise and content for a championship,
you've got to get back to the formula from a
year ago. Defensively, that's what this team does at its best,
That's what Ima Rudoka has become known for over his
(07:47):
time in the NBA. Fix the defense, and then let's
hope that as the weeks progress, maybe they get Frevan
Fleet back in some capacity. Before you get to April,
let's hope that the offense as the season moves long,
can can start to put this together. It's got to
start with defense, and on that side, I think it's
looked better in recent games. They haven't had the lapses
(08:08):
against bad opponents that they did in December, and I
thought tonight specifically, that's something that the Rockets can hang
their hat on. They seem to really respond. This team
needed to win, and it started with defense and really
from the outset, this is one of the better efforts
in a while.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the Spurs game. I
don't want to change subject. We'll come right back to
the Hawks game. But I did watch the second half
where I should say, most of the entire third and
some of the fourth of the Spurs game before I
went in there tonight, and the Rockets lost that lead.
With Luke Cornett on the floor, Wenby was gone, it was.
They had eleven point lead the third quarter, it got
wiped out with Cornett and Keldon Johnson, you know who
(08:44):
was guarding Shinun at that point in time. I think
amend was even off on the floor for a stretch. Now,
the fourth quarter was what we saw, so we can
definitely talk about those points. But another thing to throw
out there, Stephan Castle and Dylan Harper both can't shoot either.
They're both really struggle to shoot from three point range.
They're not as bad as a men Thompson, but they're
(09:04):
both in the twenty percentile twenty four percent, twenty five
percent really bad. So it's something that they're going to
have to figure out. I mean, the issues with Shangun
to men on offense and the issues with Shangun read
on defense our topic for another day, but that is
a long term concern no matter how you look at it.
We'll talk about Shangoon some more later. Read Shepherd tonight
(09:26):
couldn't make anything in the first half. And this is
a story we've said many times, been like read first
half not good, Read second half good Tonight. I think
he was zero for three in the first half from
three point range. I think he was one for eight
maybe from the from the field. Ended up going four
for six from the field, hit three threes. In the
(09:48):
second half. I think he was three for four, so
he had a much better second half. Read Tonight, and
his connection with Cappella seems to be legit like reading
Cappella to have something going on. It's really a nice
fit because Capella's that brings that better rimp protection. He's
a little bit older, but he is, you know, a
(10:09):
known rimp protector that helps read certainly on the back
line of defensively. And then he's got a lob threat.
We're gonna use that term from the Silas days, but
he's got a lob threat in Clint as well. So
I'm liking what I'm seeing from reading Clint.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, let's talk about Clint, because I don't think he
played in the second half against the Spurs. Is that right?
If he did, it was like to con minent.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I believe he did not, but I can't say if
he came in for a few minutes around. I didn't
see him play specifically, but I need to go back.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
To realitionship and so I think this is something that
with Steven Adams out for the year, which has a
few implications, and we'll talk about that in a few
minutes when we talk about the trade deadline implications. Trade
deadline is one week from today. But Clint tonight ten
point seven boards to assists, two blocks in eighteen minutes,
rockets plus seventeen. They were plus seventeen with Cappella plus
(11:01):
five with Shinoon that's not me throwing shade at Shangoon.
I acknowledge he was definitely playing hurt tonight, but it
does show that Capella lifted them in his minutes. And
yet it feels like even when Stephen hasn't played this year,
Cappella has largely played token minutes. He's been the backup
center in the first half. But if Stephen isn't available
(11:23):
in the second half either, well, typically they'll do a
combination of extended Shindun minutes and small ball Jabari at
the five. And what I'm wondering after tonight, is this
a point where the Rockets should give Clint Capella a
longer runway. I did some checking in today and folks
inside the building will tell you, like Clint has much
more gas in the tank than people on the outside
(11:45):
thought going into this year, Like they are really impressed
with physically how his body looks and what he's still
able to do at thirty one years old now in
his second decade in the NBA. What I heard internally
is that Clint still needs to get better at learning
the playbook and what the expectations are for the Rockets.
He hasn't been here in the imay Udoka era, So
(12:06):
in contrast to some of his teammates that have been
in the system for a while, this is all new
terminology and new system for Clent and so in the
super high leverage minutes, e May is still learning to
trust Clint. But I'm wondering if now with Steven out
and Jabari. You know, he played better tonight, but it's
been a bad month for Jabari overall totally. Is this
(12:27):
a point in which ima Udoka may have no choice
but to rip the band aid off and trust Clint
Capella a little bit more? Because athletically Dave, he looks
good like he's he's a loft trette. As you mentioned,
he protects the rim. I think he has some synergies
with with Reid that help mitigate his deficiencies on the
defensive end. Read that is like, I know it's not
(12:49):
easy for a coach like imy Udoka. You know someone
mentioned defensively the Rockets not having the personnel this year
that Emy wants. Maybe not tonight, but I do think
moving forward that with Tari and DFS Rockets, maybe it's
not quite as much as a year ago, but they've
got some defensive pieces and I think Clint, with the
rum protection, the athleticism, can fit into that as well.
It's just to this point, at least as I understand it,
(13:12):
the Rockets have been a little hesitant to play him
high leverage minutes because he's still getting used to the
terminology the new team. What his responsibilities are as the
back line of this defense. I'm wondering now with Steven
Adams out, like these are not bit minutes anymore. Steven
is not coming back. Yeah, So is this the time
that you know, your midway through the year, you have
(13:34):
what two and a half months until the playoffs, that
you just rip the band aid off and don't make
Clint Capella the part time backup center, making the backup
center in each half. Give him fifteen plus minutes per
game because athletically he looks the part. He looks really good.
He was a huge part of their success tonight. They
haven't really eighteen him in these big games to this point.
Maybe it's time they do.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, four for four tonight, as you pointed out, plus
seventeen eighteen minutes for Clint Capella looked really good tonight.
So yeah, he's so far filling the role of Steven
Adams say, you know a little bit different. Obviously he's better.
I think a little bit better rimp protector than Adams.
Adams is an elite screen set or elite offensive rebounder.
Capella's pretty darn good himself, but Adams is another level. Yeah,
(14:16):
I think you might be right. I think you got
to start playing Clint. And I think especially in those
read minutes.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And so if Shangoon has an off night, or if
god forbid, he needs another week or two off to
rest that ankle, you need another legit body at center,
Like if if Shangoon needs to shut it down for
a while, and I'm not saying that's the case now,
but when you see him having repeated issues with the
same ankle, you do have to worry about that. I
don't think we're anywhere near a point in which you
(14:43):
want to make Jabari Smith a full time five like.
I do not think that would go well right now,
especially with the other elements of his game all suffering
in recent weeks. So just as far as a hedge
for Shininggoon, if he's having a bad night or if
he gets hurt again, then I think there's a lot
of value in having Clint, you know, if you need
him ready to play twenty five thirty minutes. I'm not
saying that that they should play him twenty five thirty
(15:05):
minutes on Saurday night against Dallas, but you know, if
you want to potentially have him available for that down
the road, then maybe you need to start consistently playing
him for fifteen each way.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, well, I'll see, And I wish Shangun had sat tonight.
To be honest with you, I don't know if if
he's if he's dealing with his ankle or not, but
I mean it was obvious from the get go seven
to nothing Hawks right out of the gate, and there
were two at least two just bad defensive plays by
Shnggon where he just looks slow and uh Coloco and
(15:35):
uh Mohammed Gay. I believe how you say it did
a really good job just being very physical with him.
Now they're not giving them the whistles as often. They're definitely,
you know, pushing on him and everything. But he couldn't
make bunnies at all tonight free for fourteen from the field.
You know, he did get some offensive boards, which is great.
I think he had seven tonight, thirteen total rebounds, and
(15:58):
he did have three blocks. But this was not a
good shng gun game at all. I met of fact,
I think he had I think he had seven points
in a half. He must have scored just two in the
first half or in the second half. Excuse me, but anyway,
you know, he had a rough second half against the
Spurs and now this so I don't know if it
is an ankle thing or not. He just came off
(16:19):
of a fifteen to seventeen game against Memphis, so we'll
see how this plays out and Rockets play again on Saturday.
Josha Kogi, we want to talk about him. I thought
he was brilliant tonight. Hit threes three of five from deep,
but seven offensive rebounds a career high. As pointed out
on the broadcast. I think his previous career high on
offensive boards was four. A Kogi just brought the effort
(16:42):
tonight and I thought he made a significant impact.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, A Kogi, Capella, Jayshawn Tate all played eighteen plus minutes.
We talk about wanting to see the Rockets take the
games more professionally and have the defensive effort more consistent.
When three guys of your top eight in the rotation
or those three, it's going to be pretty hard not to.
And so it starts with a Kogi. We've mentioned in
(17:06):
recent shows that his minutes have been on the way
up for a while. But yeah, when you have his
energy on the floor, flying around, and then you supplement
that with guys like Tate and Capella who always play
hard in their minutes, and obviously Aman Thompson is a
top shelf defensive player. Every night, you just have so
many above average defensive pieces out on the floor that
(17:27):
guys who might otherwise fade in the background or say, well,
it's night two of it, back to back, I don't
have the legs. You're less likely to do that if
if you're going to stand out like a sore thumb,
if you're the weak link in the chain. And so
I think, especially in this situation, night two of us
split back to back, Joshua Koge, Clint Capella, Jayshon Tate,
let's give them their flowers because they set a standard
(17:48):
that I think you guys like Reach Shepherd and Jabari
Smith Junior that can go either way at times with
their effort. We talk Jabari during his shooting slump and
the impact that's had, at least in the metrics on
his defense. That's less likely to happen when you're playing
with guys like Josh and Jason that are flying around.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Let's talk, you know, we don't need to go super
long tonight. Obviously this wasn't the greatest matchup for these
two you know, these two teams. But I want to
talk to you about the trade stuff. We talked a
little bit about it yesterday with Adams Spolane who joined me.
But the Kobe White rumors are out there. The trade deadline,
I believe is February fifth coming up. I'd love to
hear what your thoughts on that, but in general, but
(18:29):
also just what you think they not necessarily specifics, but
could be looking to do as they get closer to
the deadline. Given you've you've lost Adams for the year,
and you know Fred may or may not come back,
and if he does, is he going to be you know,
giving you much. So you've got maybe some a need
at center, maybe a need at point guard. What do
you think?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I've done some digging and I think the Kobe
White scenario is unlikely. I think there's sort of a
game of telephone there. There was one somewhat ballet report
out of the Chicago Sun Times, and then a bunch
of what I would call engagement beata accounts on Twitter
that ran with it. Yeah, I think you know. I'm
not going to throw shade at the original reporter, but
(19:11):
I do think the Rockets are a classic team that's
going to get used for leverage, and that there's a
narrative out there that this team needs a point guard.
And everyone knows they have a thirty seven year old
Kevin Durant in all NBA forms, So it's easy to
connect the dots, and if you're trying to sell a guard, say, oh,
the Rockets are conceivably interested. In the case of Kobe White,
I just I don't think they view him as a
(19:32):
point guard along the lines of Fredman Fleet. I think
they see a lot of overlap similar to guys they
already have on the roster, like Kevin Durant and Read Shepherd,
And so there's just not enough of a distinguishing factor
when it comes to Kobe White for it to be
worth what it would take to get him in the trade,
especially give him the contractual uncertainty. The only reason the
Bulls are considering trading him is because he's an unrestricted
(19:54):
free agent this summer. And there was a tweet. I
forget who it was, but I've read it to tweet
today that summed it up. Well. Someone made the case
the Rockets shouldn't decrease their odds next year from twenty
percent to ten percent to take their odds from five
percent to ten percent this year. And I don't know
if those numbers are anywhere close to accurate, but I
(20:16):
do think the overarching point is a good one. It's
not just about this season. The Rockets have talked over
and over again about building a sustainable contender. And the
reason they acquired Kevin Durant it wasn't just because oh,
we've got to acquire Kevin Durant. As much as people say, well,
he's thirty seven year old and he's great, how long
is this prime gonna last? The Rockets acquired him because
(20:36):
it was at a low price point to where they
could fit him in with their existing young core and
he could help the development and maybe they win a
title or contend for title in the interim. But that
wasn't you know, it wasn't a truly win now move.
It was to help them move forward in the process.
But it wasn't title or bust, is the way that
I would put it. They went for Katie because he
(20:58):
fit within their existing core and the timelines, and so
they're not going to go out of their way unless
it's a move that truly moves the needle. And what
I mean by that is, you know, a trade for
Kobe White or any salary of significance. The Rockets are
hard capped at the first apron, so they have to
(21:18):
send out close to as much money as they take it. Well,
who are they sending out. It's not easy to send
out Quint Capella anymore because there's no Stephen Adams, So
if you want to win a title, you need at
least two reliable centers. So Clint's suddenly much more important.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, I will say people are suggesting Adams, and I
don't agree with it, but I'm saying that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yes, And that's the other point. If it's not Capella,
then I see a lot of Fred Stephen or Doriy
Anthony Smith used as matching salary. And I said this
with Fred early in the year, and I'll say the
same thing with Stephen and DFS. Even though DFS is playing,
he's basically, you know, i'd say like a partial participant
at this point because he's clearly limited coming off the
ankle injury. The Rockets believe in these guys long term.
(22:00):
In October, the Rockets fully believe that all three of
those guys, Fred, Dorian and Steven are going to be
full of participants in training camp. They're thirty two years
old or younger, and they are going to be good
rotation players next season. Now you can say assuming health,
but that's quite literally true of any NBA player. So
from the Rockets perspective, any move they make, as far
(22:21):
as moving one of those guys for a Kobe White
or anyone else that gets brought up, it would be
just for this season. Going into next season, they feel
good about their rotation. Like you add Fred Steven and
a thirty minutes per game version of doriy Anfonty Smith
to what you have now you already have a full rotation.
So any upgrade you make would just be about this season.
(22:45):
And so for it to be worthwhile to use one
of those pieces as matching salary, it needs to really
move the needle. I just don't think Kobe White does
he's a nice player. But you know, it wasn't even
sure before let's go back to September fifteenth, Even before
Fred Bensley tearches ACL. I don't think it was a
given that the Rockets were at the tier of Oklahoma City.
(23:05):
We were hopeful if they could could give it, you know,
a nice run, and the Rockets would be you know,
in the ballgame, so to speak. But even when they
were believed to be at full health, and we didn't
know about the Drori and Face Smith injury at that
point either, it was still a little bit of a
heavy lift. Now and you take out not only Fred
but also Stephen, are you really convinced, Dave that you
(23:27):
add Kobe White and this is a team that can
beat Oklahoma City four times out of seven. I'm not like,
I don't mean that to be pessimistic. I just think
that'st reality. Now. You know, maybe you get lucky and
kd has like a historic run, or maybe the Thunder
or whoever you play, has you know, some ill timed
injuries that help you out. I mean, yeah, it's possible. Like,
I'm not saying the Rockets can't win a title, But
(23:48):
what I'm saying is that you don't acquire a Kobe
White and then say this is a championship level team, right,
it would make you better, but I still think there
would be some clear deficiencies. And again with Kobe, I
don't think they really view him as a Fred VanVleet type.
He's closer to you know, guys they already have on
the roster in terms of role. He's closer to a
two guard, and the Rockets already feel pretty good at
(24:09):
that position with how they use Kevin Durant and Reach Shepherd.
So I just think I've got to consider not just
this season, but next season. And if the only upgrade
is for this year, and you're already down two rotation players,
two key rotation players and Fred and Stevens, so your
odds already diminished, is it really worth it if you
(24:30):
have to take away a key player from next season's team.
That's what I keep coming back to.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean they have to keep long term in
mind for sure, the player that kind of I think
it's very difficult. I don't see it being possible, but
I think could actually really help them as a Jiu
Holiday type, a significant leader type, a Mike Conley in
his prime. You know, obviously Fred VanVleet, if they could
get him back, you know, somebody like that that could
(24:55):
stabilize the team a little bit more. I love seeing
amend of develop and I think Reid I like seeing
that that happen. I think that's what's going to be
a key focus the rest of the way. But that's
kind of what I the type that I think it
would take. I don't look at Kobe White, as good
as he is. He's a good scorer, you know, I
don't see that being the game changer for them, and
I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Think that he's not.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I don't think they are.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Like right, knowledge that at point guard along the lines
of Fred than Fleet could help them. I just don't
think Kobe White is that guy.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, I want to ask you about Yiannis too. We've
talked about it a lot, I know, but the report
came out to McMahon saying Rockets are just saying we're
as as patient as ever. I'm surprised by it. Obviously
we have both talked, you know, to different people with
the Rockets in the past. I know they had interest
in Jannis pre Kevin Durant, that that summer. It didn't
(25:43):
come to fruition as far as him even being available.
I am a little thrown off by this, but I
did point this out yesterday to Adam Is you know
there's a tweet out there from Mark Stein and from
you know, other sources a year ago today, more or
less just before the deadline, of saying the Rockets, you know,
are not interested in Kevin Durant. They are patient. They
(26:03):
want to see what this team looks like in the playoffs,
and I think that's what they want to do. They
want to give this team a shot and then make
adjustments in the summer. So if you want Yannis on
the Rockets, if that's what your view is, I think
you got to hope he doesn't does not get traded
at this deadline, and he's an option in the summer.
But it just it throws me off.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Man.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I'll let you speak because I feel like the Rockets
their philosophy has been these type of guys don't come
on the block very often. Sure, you get a Jimmy Butler,
you get other stars, but Yannis is a superstar, a
top three, top four player in the league. Yes, he's
dealing with a couple of calf injuries that are scary
this year. But you don't get these guys very often,
(26:45):
and so I'm a little thrown off by it, to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I will say it's a little different than the
Lucas scenario from a year ago, and that Luca was
twenty five, if Yannis was twenty five. They take the
talent and worry about everything else later to go from
a twenty three year old all per inching goon or
a twenty two year old a mentops. And although I
don't think amends on the table in any scenario, I
think he's as unfashiable as it gets for a thirty
(27:09):
one year old yachtis. I mean, that's a big age
gap and in a perfect role. I think the Rockets
just philosophically, and some people will disagree, but I think
the Rockets would rather have you know, a ten year
window of you know, a pretty good chance every year
than a two or three year window with a very
good chance, simply because they've learned the hard way. So
(27:29):
many things can go wrong. We saw this in twenty eighteen.
You can have an all time team and you can
have one of your star players spilling a hamstring at
the worst moment and then it all goes out. And
so I think this team, especially in the aftermath of
what happens early in the Tilburn Forteita ownership tenure, is
very cognizant of keeping that window open as long as possible.
(27:51):
And the idea is that some years the bounces will
go your way, the health gods will smile upon you,
however you want to frame it. The idea is that
the longer window gives you more bites at the apple,
and I think that's something that under Chilman, Fritida, under
Rafel's Stone, the Rockets have consistently prioritized. With that said,
we did see, you know, a lot of what shifted
(28:11):
last year with Katie was the Sun's asking price came down,
and I'm skeptical that the Bucks will see their asking
price come down to nearly the same extent with a
thirty one year old Giannis. But you do have to
note Giannis this summer will be one year from when
he can become a free agent, and so that gives
him a lot of control, and so it's not unfathomable
that maybe he can, you know, depress his market enough
(28:33):
between being one year from free agency and coming off
multiple calf strains, maybe his market is you know, a
lot less than you would normally think for a player
of his caliber, one of three or four best in
the world. So I agree with you. I don't think
it's going to happen by the trade deadline, but you know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
In general, you don't think he'll be traded period.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Well, no, I don't think it's happening with the Rockets.
Oh yeah, traded by the trade deadline. But I'm agreeing
with you that. You know, the hope is that if
I was to rank it, I would say I hope
he doesn't get traded anywhere because I would love to
keep the door open. And then secondly, I would want
him to get traded to you know, Miami, Miami N
Conference team, and then the worst case scenarios, it gets
(29:14):
traded now, but he goes to you know, a Golden State,
a San Antonio, somewhere.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Like that, Minnesota, What a disaster that would be for us.
I think if he gets traded in Minnesota and Windhorse.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
That goes to the top tier.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, I mean Windhorse one of the most credible there
is out there saying there's real smoke to that that
he wants to play with Anthony Edwards, and it's like, man,
that would not I don't know if they could pull
that off. They don't have like these, you know, slew
of picks, and so Milwaukee's gonna have to want, you know,
a Randall or Nasried and Jade McDaniels, those type of players.
But if they could pull that off, that's that's pretty scary.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That impacts us.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
So Miami best case scenario if it does get if
he does get traded.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And to preview one of our upcoming shows, We've got
Michael Shapiro of Crime dot Com coming on I believe Monday,
which will be about me two hours before the deadline,
or really about sixty hours, so I think it's midday
on Thursday. And I was talking to Michael at the
game last night. We're at Toyota Center for Spurs Rockets,
and he was telling me, you know, he agrees it's
(30:12):
not happening by the deadline with the Rockets, but he
would not rule out the possibility this summer. And Dave,
you can follow up with him on Monday if you want.
But I think he looks at it very similarly to
the way you do, and that for a lot of reasons.
It doesn't make sense. Now, the Rockets, in a perfect world,
want this longer window. They want the sustainable contender. But
if this thing goes south, if they underperform in the playoffs,
(30:36):
and especially if point of your big guns sort of
fades under the lights for one reason or another, or
perhaps you know Shingoon or Amen, someone like that underachieves
because of you know, the way an opposing team chooses
to defend them, or the matchup or whatever the case
may be. Then yeah, like they're open to revisiting. We saw,
you know, the Rockets change course. They talked all last
(30:56):
year about you know, loving the course seven, and after
the way the Warriors series went, something clearly changed. You know,
they went for KD. But before they went for KD,
there was talk at the beginning of the off season
that the Rockets are most intrigued by Giannis, and ultimately
they didn't go down that road. Yannis didn't get traded
at all. They traded for KD. But I bring all
that up to say it's all subject to change, and
I don't think the Rockets want to do that move.
(31:18):
I think they want to proceed with a young core
and I think, just philosophically, they want the window open
as long as possible. So I think in a perfect role,
they won't have to trade for Yannis. But depending what
happens in the playoffs, depending what else happens around the NBA,
and what your competition looks like. I mean, if the
Thunder do it again and look like a super team,
I mean maybe maybe that's the point in which you say, hey, like,
(31:39):
just as the Rockets in the late twenty ten, so
let's pair James Hard and Chris Paul and go after
the Warriors. Maybe they say, let's peer up Kevin Durant
and Yannis and that's the only way you can chase
down the Thunder. Like. I'm not saying for sure that's
gonna happen, but I think, you know, if he doesn't
get traded at the dubline, it would be foolish to
rule it out absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I'll just say I think Shanghun needs to have a
good place showing Rockets hopefully. Yeah, I think this dings,
you know, the injuries does ding their championship window. I'm
not saying they can't do it, I mean, not window
their chances this year. I'm not saying they can't do it. Yeah, odds,
But I want that to see them win a series.
I want to see him make some noise in the playoffs,
and you have to I think this is what again,
(32:18):
So do I in the chat asked about buyouts. Let's
revisit that in a week. I do think that buyouts
are much more likely to be the route that the
that the Rockets pursue because if these guys we talked
about a filler salaries Capella and then the three injured guys,
and including DFS and that because he's not fully available yet,
(32:38):
if they're off limits, because you know, the Rockets aren't
going to sell them low. They're going to value them
for next season then beyond, and so that the values
you're not going to line up to where it makes
sense to deal for a guy now, especially with you know,
the Rockets were cautious in negotiations with tarry Eathan, and
they would also be cautious in negotiations with with Kobe White,
because this team's going to be very expensive, Like a
(32:59):
lot of guys in the market this summer or in
the market at this deadline, they're going to become free
agents this summer and so there's a level of contractual uncertainty.
I don't think the Rockets are going to bid super
aggressively financially, and that's another factor to consider because this
team is going to be very expensive. So if you're
comparing a Kobe White who's about to be an unrestricted
free agent, to guys who are on friendly contracts like dfs,
like Brad like Steven Adams, I mean, that's another reason
(33:21):
to sort of to stay the course. And so if
you take all of them out of play, and you're
just looking primarily at guys making closer to the minimum,
and you know, at that point you're looking sort of
bottom of the barrel moves at the margins, and the
Rockets can't really aggregate salaries because they're hard gaped at
the first apron. The likely scenario, in my opinion, is that.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
You just wait until after the deadline and you get
someone via the buyout market. And I haven't won't speculating
who that is yet because we don't know who's going
to get traded and who isn't. But I do think
that conceptually the buyout market is likely to be where
the Rockets go for a player of that stature and
as far as who that is, we can talk about
that in a week once the doubline passes.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, Looney is who I have my eyes on, but
we'll see how We'll see how that plays out. Appreciate you, Ben,
Please follow If you don't already follow Ben, follow him
on Blue Sky on Twitter at bend Bo's possibly on
Instagram too. I'm not sure if that's your handle there, Ben,
But appreciate everybody for tuning in tonight to the post
game you can. You can obviously find it here on
Clutch Fans YouTube, also on the Rockets Launch Pod. Ben
(34:23):
has the audio up on that podcast as well, So
appreciate all of you. We will see you all Saturday
night when the Rockets take on the Dallas Mavericks.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Thanks everyone,
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