March 6, 2026 • 39 mins
We are joined by Ashe Epp, (@AsheinAmerica) a writer and host who's been following the Tina Peters case closely. They dive into the recent news that Governor Jared Polis is considering clemency for Peters, who was sentenced to nine years in prison for her role in a breach of Colorado's voting systems. Ashe shares her thoughts on the case, citing concerns about prosecutorial discretion and the potential for a political prosecution.
George Brauchler, 23rd District Attorney joins the conversation midway through the hour as legal parameters of the case and possible clemency are discussed, along with the appeal process and the possibility outcome as Tina's legal team makes it through the judiciary process at the Colorado Court of Appeals and beyond.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
KRFX HG two, Denver KHW Denver, Denver's talk stationn iHeartRadio station.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Guaranteed Human.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
It's Tina Peters willing to fake remorse to get out
of prison because it looks like that's what it's gonna take.
Governor Polis here yesterday listed off why he is inclined
to give Peter's clemency if she will show contrition and
apologize for her actions, like everyone else who sentenced the
governor has ever commuted. I pressed him on it, and
he said that remorse and accountability must happen for Peters
(00:35):
to receive clemency. Tina Peters has been remarkably consistent that
she is not at all remorseful for leading a breach
of Colorado's voting systems in search of fraud. She does
take responsibility for her actions, as in, she doesn't deny
what she did.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
She's proud of it.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
She's embraced her status as a martyr of the stolen
elections crowd, and the first rule of martyr club is
you gotta see it through to the end.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No real martyr gives up.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
And says, hey, you know what I was wrong, didn't
mean any of that, Sorry for the trouble guys.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'll be on my way now.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
There are plenty of people who pretend to believe all
that stolen election stuff for power, for profit, for politics.
There is even some evidence that President Trump and his
inner circle don't actually believe it. Tina Peters believes it,
while others have lined their pockets off stolen election claims.
Peters went to prison. I don't think she'll fake remorse
(01:29):
to get out. But if she did, right, maybe in
just one letter to the governor asking for clemency, would
Governor Polus really be willing to pretend that Tina Peters
means it and turn her loose.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, absolutely he would.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Because it seems that the governor is not just willing
to grant clemency to Tina Peters, he is eager to
do it. Except he's now insisting that she first showed
contrition and apologized for her crimes. The bad news for
Governor Polis is is I don't think Tina Peters is
willing to fake remorse to get out of prison.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Comrade Kyle nine News opining about Governor Jared Polis a
brief conversation he had. Polis has retreated a little bit
from his original post on x in which he didn't
mention anything about conditions for Tina Peters having to apologize
or take accountability for what she did or how she
did it or why she did it. It was just, Wow,
this doesn't seem fair, and it's going to come into
(02:27):
my decision making process, and I'm going to extend the
application deadline to early April for clemency cases like hers,
and kind of opened the door to that. And then
in came the criticisms from Adam Kinsinger. Let's go there
real quick, Shan. I know you're on the other side
of the glass, but I just want to get this
criticism from Adam Kensinger. It's cut seven f and he
(02:49):
comes jumping in off the top rope for our business
here in Colorado at.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
A time when we need to be standing up against
authoritarians and against authoritarianism.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
For Jared Polis.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
To do this, even to throw out the idea of it,
and once you throw out the idea, you're going.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
But for him to do this spits in the face
of people who have been fighting against the big lie
that the election was stolen.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It spits in the.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Face of those of us that are fighting hard to
ensure that the democracy and that our election system is fair, free, safe,
and free from these accusations. Jared Polis, the Democratic governor
of Colorado, ought to be quite ashamed of himself to
even consider this.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Adam kinse crying, Adam Kinzinger, he's always crying. I don't
know why he's crying. I never cry. I don't cry
at all. But he should be ashamed of himself for
his token placement on the jan sixth committee, as hand
picked by Nancy Pelosi. Who does that? How does that
happen with both him, Liz Cheney, Kevin McCarthy, the Speaker
(04:01):
of the House at the time, had appointed, like Jim Jordan,
several of the Republicans. Nancy Pelosi says, well, no, we're
not going to play ball. We're going to dictate the terms.
Who gets to be on this committee from your party.
This seems to be a running theme, by the way,
for the Democrats, including Jenna Griswold, who came out with
a statement criticizing Governor Polis and his consideration of granting
clemency to Tina Peters. You might remember Jenna Griswold most
(04:22):
recently falsely claiming that she argued before the Supreme Court
of the United States. That was a lie, as Kyle
Clark pointed out, and not only that, it was a
case that was defeated nine to nothing, including all three
liberal justices, as to whether Donald Trump should appear on
our primary ballot, our primary ballot. And when I say
(04:44):
that I'm a Republican, I vote in the primary. Democrats don't.
They have nothing to do with it. GTFO out of
my primary. You have no business tell me if, like
I said, if btk's on the ballot and we want
that as Republicans, then we get to do that, just
like a Democrat gets to determine whoever they want on
their ballot. I don't care. I'm not a Democrat. I
(05:05):
don't vote in the Democrat primary. However, Jenna Griswold, Mario Nicholas,
Krista Kaefer, all these people that were enjoined that lawsuit
were saying, no, no, you Rubes are too stupid to
figure out who you should be voting for when it
comes to the presidential race. And we don't want you
to have Donald Trump as an option because of the
fourteenth Amendment, and he incited an insurrection and therefore he's disqualified.
(05:28):
That the point being keep your eye on the ball here.
The reason they didn't want Donald Trump on the ballot
was not because he was this disqualified candidate that they
thought they could beat. Because if they thought they could
beat him and he was such a bad candidate, put
him on the ballot. Let's roll. But no, they were
afraid he was going to win, and therefore the motivation
(05:49):
was entirely political. So that's Jenna Griswold for you, bringing
in Ash Epps. She is on exit ash in America.
That's Ash with an E. So what you just heard
there Ash from both Kyle Clark Adam Kinzinger. Your response
to your.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Reaction, Well, I want to thank Kyle Clark because if
it wasn't for his reporting about Jenna Griswold, I wouldn't
have known that. As a layman pro sae litigan, I've
actually argued in one more cases than Jenna Griswold in
federal court.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
How about that.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
It's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
But I want to go back to what he characterized
her intent in that clip that you played. He said,
she's really embraced her status as a martyr. Now that
is important because that was the state's benefit harm. Theory
of why Tina Peters did what she did, and that
intent comes from the official misconduct misdemeanor charge, the felonies
(06:41):
for attempted to attempt to influence a public official, the
three felonies, and then the three felonies for that, and
then the conspiracy which was presented as a felony, sentenced
as a felony, but was actually a misdemeanor. These are
the issues with her due process Tina Peters to process
that came up on her. The only way we get
to the only time in her trial we get to
(07:03):
her intent is in that official misconduct charge. And that's
kind of where they threw everything that they that wasn't
a crime, right, so she turned the cameras off, well,
it was lawful for her to turn the cameras off.
She was never allowed to explain to the jury why
she did it, but they threw these kinds of details
into the official misconduct charge. Then they characterized the official
misconduct her intent of the official misconduct because there is
(07:24):
a statutory intent requirement for that charge. They characterized it
as the benefit for herself.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Was internet fame. She wanted to be the hero.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
She wanted to be see she wanted to get on
the stage, she wanted to fly on the plane, she
wanted to be the hero. The problem is she was
never allowed to defend that characterization of her intent. And
you don't have to take my word for it, Judge
Tao at the appellate hearing set and I quote, the
official misconduct charge was charged as with the intent to
receive a benefit for herself. Why is it not relevant
to the jury for her to say, I didn't intend
(07:53):
to receive a benefit for myself. I intended to do
what I thought was my job and protect the election process.
Why was that evidence not relevant at least.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
To the charge? That's what the appellate court asked the state.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Lisa Michaels was the attorney arguing for the AG's office.
Now what we hear in this and the news is, oh,
my gosh, there might be some sort of clemency, right,
she needs to show contrition for clemency. But what Kyle
Clark is actually doing is forwarding the same mischaracterization in
my opinion, of her intent as the state and the
(08:28):
county did during her trial. And it is one of
the most egregious to process violations that Tina Peters had
is that the jury was informed what her intent was. Sure,
it's just.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
On one of the misdemeanor charges. But here's the problem.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Can you unerring that bell, Can you tell the jury
that her intent was to receive all this benefit for
herself and then well, that only applies to the misdemeanor.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
It wasn't the case for the felonies.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You can't do that, and so that to me, Listen,
if Tina Peters was a sex offender the way her
her case was treated, she'd be out by now.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
A true fact. Now you said during the break that
you actually agree with Kyle Clark's assertion there that she
will not express remorse, to regret contrition what apparently Governor
Polis is now citing as a condition of him granting
her clemency.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yes, I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I don't believe that she will show contrition, and why not.
I don't believe that she thinks she did anything wrong,
but not even.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
To faked to get out of prison. I mean, that's
the past. Jared Polis has given her the roadmap to
get out of prison, like just say you're sorry and
you'll get out. And she's still not going to do it.
You don't think.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I don't. I don't, so I could be wrong, and
I'm I'm not into her head.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
You've spoken with her attorneys and they offered up a
very I thought, conciliatory statement, thanking Jared Polis for this opportunity.
They're going to apply for clemency come April.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm not sure that's what they said, actually, so when
I pressed them on clemency, I was told there's no
missing paperwork me, which which you can on its face
take to mean they already did apply for clemency, or
it could mean that the pardon that President Trump handed
down that they believe that that's enough to get her
out of prison. I don't know what they're going to do,
(10:12):
but I don't but I would be shocked. And I
know Tina Peters. I followed this case since her office
was raided in August of twenty twenty one, and I
don't believe that she will fake remorse to get out
of prison. I think that Tina Peters is in has
always been so I disagree with the state's characterization of
her intent as being she wanted to be Internet famous.
(10:35):
I don't think that was ever true. And again she
was never allowed to dispute that characterization to the jury.
I don't think she's now going to accept it in
order to get out of prison.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
I think that she's in this for justice.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Ash Out in studio with us here for the full hour.
Ash in America on X use the word fake. Speaking
of fake, Jared Polis, his compassion is empathy. This is
a gold star mom. She's seventy years old, She's had
some health issues, and she shouldn't be in prison anymore
than State Senator Sonya Hakez Lewis, who was sentenced to
(11:08):
probation and community service after being convicted of four felonies,
including attempt to influence a public official. Out of the
goodness of his heart and a sense of fairness, Jared
Polis is considering clemency for Tina Peters, or alternatively, President
Trump has put the screws to Colorado and he's got
to get the president off of our backs right.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well, absolutely, absolutely the levers that President Trump has to
So if we take as true that the presidential pardon
cannot apply to state level crimes, which seems to be
what everybody is taking true, Notably, that is one of
the matters on appeal and is expected to go to
the Supreme Court. It's expected that the Colorado Court of
Appeals will deny that the assertion that or the motion
(11:52):
that President Trump's pardon should get Tina Peters out of prison.
But then that's expected to go to the Supreme Court.
But if we set that aside, the clemency question is,
if we set that aside, the pardon aside, the levers
that President Trump really have our discretionary funding and Colorado
is drunk, conspending and heavily dependent on federal subsidies. And
(12:13):
so President Trump is putting the screws to the administration
here and it's it's been very painful. We saw during
this special session last year how painful the funding cuts,
the federal cuts have been here in Colorado. So I
think President Trump is pulling the levers that he's able
to pull. I also think that I think you mentioned
this on your show yesterday, Jared pulls very likely running
(12:35):
for president and an attempt to get the vice the
vice presidential spot on the Democrat ticket for twenty twenty eight.
When Jared Pulis is running for office, he pretends to
be libertarian, and that's that's kind of where we are.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I think this text five seven seven three nine. You
can join the conversation that way or by POHLM three
zero three seven one three eight two five five. Kyle
Clark should ask Polish what would Kim Kardashian do about
Tina Peters. Toche well played and to Kyle Clark's credit,
he has pressed police on the Kim Kardashian angle with
the runaway trucker whose sentence was reduced from one hundred
(13:09):
and ten years to ten years. This from the real
Ralph a text to Dan Kaplis yesterday as a Republican
believing the election was not stolen. Talking about Dan, I
believe you are in the minority. The twenty twenty election
was engineered and thus stolen. The squashing of the Hunter
Biden laptop story is sufficient for that. However, there is
a February twenty twenty one issue of Time magazine explaining
(13:31):
how the cabalt was engineering it. This doesn't even take
into account all the shenanigans that occurred in Georgia, Pennsylvania,
Michigan and other swing states. There are two Joe PAGs
interviews with key individuals on his YouTube site who have
evidence saying that they have turned it over to the DOJ.
That from the real Ralph, I know you have been
necked deep in this entire story with regard to a
(13:52):
stolen election twenty twenty, it's a controversial topic and I
interviewed Dick Wadams just yesterday. He says that any any
radioactive is this issue one for like a representative Scott
Botams to say Tina Peters did nothing wrong. She should
be fully pardoned. She was trying to do her job.
The twenty twenty election was stolen. And here's how that
(14:12):
that is anathema to any Republican winning statewide office, in
particular the governor's race. One, how do you respond to
that ash? And two what are your thoughts on the
twenty twenty election and whether it was stolen?
Speaker 5 (14:24):
So well, I agree that you can't say that Tina
Peters did.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Nothing wrong because there was a COVID emergency rule passed
by Jenna's office that only employees could be in the
room when the trusted build was taking place. Tina Peters
made a misrepresentation to three public officials, one that Conan
(14:52):
Hayes was Jerry Wood, and that misrepresentation is the four felonies,
and so you can't say she didn't do that, stipulated
to it at our trial.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
So to me it is a mistake.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I agree with Wattam's on that and I and I
think it hurts you because it's so easily demungible as
far as the election goes. Listen, we can talk about
how the districts are drawn. We can talk about the
voter rolls. We can talk about the Save America Act
and what's that, what that's going to do. Why is
there such resistance to cleaning the voter roles.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
There's a you know, judicial watch versus.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Griswold here and non compliance with the consent decree happened.
We can talk about the ballot on demand printers and
the the appearance of impropriety as it pertains to contracts
related to elections here when you have you know, people
with satutory authority over the vendor, the vendors. We're in
(15:49):
a public private partnership over election, right, So we have
vendors that have are kind of acting as an arm
of the government. And then you see the beneficiaries of
those of those elections that their spouses or you know,
siblings are working for those elections. We have some of
that down in Colorado Springs with Rumbeck election services. Former
Secretary of State Wayne Williams, senior advisor to Runbeck, and
(16:13):
you know, his wife was sitting on the county commissioner
board overseeing Rumbeck funding and I'll pass out county and
now she recused herself from the vote after it was
pointed out that the conflict existed.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
But that's the system that we have.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
It's very murky. And here's the problem. You can't ask
questions about it. So when I first started looking at
the twenty twenty election, I was I thought, well, we'll expose,
we'll see what's going on.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Well, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Be fine.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Didn't We didn't get a.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Chance to ask questions before we were demonized about it,
and for me, that was a red flag. I spent
from two thousand and one to twenty seventeen at an SEC.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Audit firm, and at an SEC audit.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Firm, every single year, every employee in the firm has
to take training, mandatory training, pass a test, and and
make an attestation that you will be independent. Why because
public trust and capital markets is just that important, and
the appearance of impropriety is just as bad as impropriety itself.
When it comes to public trust, well, arguably public trust
(17:16):
and elections is more important. But when we ask questions,
I'll tell you what. I took that training every single year.
It's hard, four hours, take a.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Big test at the end of it.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
The conduct that you're trained to spot as evident of corruption, obstruction, lying,
manipulating documents, taking them down, changing them, putting them back up.
That's the behavior, the conduct of our government. In the
wake of twenty twenty election and since so, Yeah, I
think elections are fake and I think it's theater. I
(17:48):
think it's meant to pacify the people, and the powerful
people will allow you to ask questions about anything except
how they obtain their power.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
This from a Texter. I'm sure if Tina Peters was
a Democrat, she'd fake remorse and she'd be very good
at it. Yes, the theater of the mind esh in
America on X writer host activist Victor be Unconquerable. That
is her ex header and at ash with an E
in America's where you can follow her on that platform.
We'll take this time out the DA. The District Attorney
(18:19):
of the twenty third George Brockler joins us next to
talk about the disparity in sentencing and prosecutorial discretion when
it comes to a case like Tina Peters from his
own first hand perspective down there in Douglas County. Back
with that after this on Ryan Schuling.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Life, Colorado's governor is ready to hand Tina Peters to
get out of jail free card if she's willing to
do the one thing she hasn't done yet, show remorse
for her crime of leading a breach of Colorado's voting systems.
Peters and President Trump, of course, are not one bit sorry.
They say Peters is a political prisoner, that her nine
(18:56):
year sentence is unfair, and that Colorado is going to
be punished on till she's free. Democratic Governor Jared Poulos
made it pretty clear to me late this afternoon, the
only thing standing between Tina Peters and her freedom.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Is her showing remorse.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Has your view of whether Tina Peters deserved clemency changed
over time or are people just interpreting your words differently?
Speaker 7 (19:19):
This one has always stood out to me, Kyle as
a very long sentence. Just to put things in perspective,
we have eighteen thousand or so prisoners. We cannot find
any other non violent first time offenders over seventy in
our entire system, so I haven't seen a single one.
So on its face, this would be a good applicant.
Now you have to put on top of that, of course,
(19:41):
the impact of the crime, the notoriety of the crime.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
What she actually did, Tina Peter shows no remorse, takes
no accountability or responsibility.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Does that matter? Yes, that is a very important part.
So what she would have to show.
Speaker 7 (19:57):
In any type of successful clemency application would be appropriate contrition, apology.
That's the kind of thing that I would be looking for.
I've looked for it in other cases. It's not the
only thing, Kyle. There's also sentencing disparities. That's one of
the issues here. Agent health are a factor and is
cited in a few of the ones you looked at.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
But absolutely how.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
An inmate plans on making good with any time reduction
that they receive is part of what I look at.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
There are times that it seems to me like you
want to give her clemency more than she wants it,
right because if she's in she's a martyr, And it
seems to me like you've been working really hard to
come up with a justification to give her clemency when
she won't do so much as to say, yeah, I
broke the law and I'm sorry.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
I'm not looking at you know, is she a martyror?
Is she not? I'm not looking at what you know,
you or what the president or what the Democrats say.
I really just try to look at does this, you know,
meet my standards in terms of is there a disparate sentence?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I believe there is?
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Here? Is there contrition and apology?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
We need to see that contrition, apology, remorse, none of that.
None of those words were used in this very extensive
post on ax Jared Polis inciting the discrepancy in sentencing
between Tina Peters and former state Senator Sonya Hakez Lewis,
who was also convicted of four felonies, including attempt to
influence a public official. So what changed? Why did he
(21:26):
feel the need to kind of clean that up, move
the goal post, say that to Kyle Clarke, Oh, well, no,
she's got to be sorry and then maybe we'll grant
her clemency. Well, I turned my lonely eyes and ears
to the twenty third District Attorney George Brockler, who is
in this very position as a prosecutor of pursuing sentences
for criminal offenders, and he joins us now on Ryan
Schuling Live Gee brock.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
What's up, Brian Ash? How's it going?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Ah? Yes, good to have her along as well. And
my first question for you, though, George, just what is
your reaction to what you just heard? What is the
motivation behind Jared pol Is doing this politically? Is he
just going Leroy Jenkins here? Because Phil Wiser AG is
pushed back on this. Jenna Griswold, Secretary of State running
for AG is pushed back on this. Adam Kinzinger. Are
(22:11):
the National Democrats or those that lean that way pushing
back on this? So what's your assessment of it?
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Well, first off with the teen of Peace, and I
agree with Ash's assessment largely. And that is for those
people that say, hey, she didn't break the law, she
didn't do anything wrong, and they wrapped themselves around the
idea of a necessary evil, just none of that is
accurate or applicable. She broke the law. I think it's
unequivocal that she broke the law and she should be
(22:38):
convicted Now, if Polis was dithering over whether or not
to grant her the type of clemency that takes the
form of a pardon, I think everybody should be a
little outraged. But the clemency he's being asked to consider,
and apparently not by teen I don't even know if
she's made a formal application or not, is to just
reduce down the length of her sentence. That seems like
a much easier pull. It's one that he could find
(23:00):
cover for with this hakes Lewis outcome. I've got my
own thoughts on that. But you know, Phil Wiser's running
for office and he is tacking hard to the left
of Bennett, so he has to take this position. But
what's interesting is we don't hear Phil come out and
say it's an abomination that hakkes Lewis committed felonies on
the job under the Gold Dome and she gets to
(23:21):
walk out of the courtroom. That to me should be
a position that he takes if he wants to look
bipartisan in this, But he doesn't. And Kinsinger, who cares.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, I agree with I agree with the last part certainly, so,
So I think the problem here one I think that
a part in any sort of clemency requires contrition in
in my opinion, I don't, I don't. I think that
this is you know, making a making a part of
this story. That's that that really doesn't matter. I think
(23:51):
what what they're asking her to do to show remorse
in this is to buy the state's story of why
she did what she did. And George, I'd love your
tape on how you could so set aside the clemency
for a second. Let's talk about the appeal, because this
case is on appeal. The Colorado Court of Appeals heard
it last month, and on at least three issues, seemed
(24:13):
like they felt that they were talking as though some
sort of remedy was required because of how the state
handled the case of state and county.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
You know, we.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Hear that Masa County prosecuted this case during the the
you know, parts of the trial where the jury wasn't present.
The Shapiro from the AG's office tried to have the
judge rebuke the defense for suggesting that the state was involved.
They wanted to be referred to as working on behalf
of Masa County. This was it was, in my opinion,
(24:47):
of political prosecution. The prosecutorial discretion is what allowed it
to go the way that it went. And I'd love
your take, George on how once the state characterized her
intent on the misdemeanor, that doesn't bias the jury without
her being allowed to defend the state's characterization of her
intent the how that doesn't bias the jury on the
(25:09):
rest of the charges, considering, of course, as you know
as a prosecutor, that our justice system protects the rights
of the accused in a profound way.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, good question.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
I didn't listen to the entire appellate argument, but I
did listen to the portions with Judge Ted Tao, who's
also a former prosecutor, former head of the Colorado District
Attorney's Council, and I believe there's a way for Tina
to win some portions of the appeal without the entire
conviction being overturned and it being remanded back to the
trial judge to make some other sentencing rulings. But in
(25:45):
terms of not allowing her to provide a defense, I'm
not sure I agree with that what she wanted to
run was not what her intent was. But hey, my
goal was I was trying to cure a greater evil.
It's to call the choice of evils defense that the
judge found, and I agree with you isn't applicable here
to this particular conduct. So I don't agree that she
wasn't allowed to put on a defense. You can't just
(26:06):
say anything in trial. It's got to be within the
realm of the law in terms of the discretion piece though.
I mean, listen, you had a Republican DA in a
Republican county, with a Republican grand jury and a judge
who was a former prosecutor all preside over this. It
doesn't mean it wasn't mistake free. But I think the
idea that it was a political prosecution is only invited
(26:28):
by the fact that Rob Shapiro, who have known for decades,
is from the AG's office, and his goal was to
try to minimize the role of the state for obvious reasons.
I'm not sure as a judge I would have entertained that.
I don't think that's really that big of a deal,
and I don't know that jurors would get wrapped around
the axle on that. I think if you look at
Hakez Lewis, she's a Democrat in a Democrat city with
(26:52):
a Democrat jury and a Democrat DA and judges who
were appointed by Democrats.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Who sat over her.
Speaker 6 (26:58):
I'm not sure that was a political prosecution either. I
think the real disappointment in Hakez Lewis is the minute
the jury came back after this three day trial in
which she testified, and I think the jury rejected her statements,
basically calling her a liar. Is out walking out of
the courtroom. The chief prosecutor says, we're only going to
seek probation. Why can't we just all agree that if
(27:20):
you're an elected official and you're convicted of felonies for
what you do on the job in your elected capacity,
you ought to see the inside of a cell. And
it doesn't matter what it is. Felonies are a big deal.
You ought to go to jail for felonies. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I'm going to push back on you on her being
able to defend, on her to present her defenses, and
I'm going to quote Judge Taw to you since you.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Cited him.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
When it quote When it comes to a defendant's constitutional
right to present a complete defense, does a trial court
have the ability to curtail that in the interest of
not letting quote the sideshow overcome the circus. Do they
have the constitutional right to present a complete defense? The
court can prevent cumulative or irrelevant evidence, but I can't,
but it cannot curtail the presentation of relevant evidence. Why
(28:08):
she did what she did is relevant, and you could
say it doesn't matter, But then you have to throw
out the misdemeanor for official misconduct because there's.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
An intent requirement.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You cannot allow the state to present the to characterize
her intent to the jury and refuse to allow her
to present a.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Defense for that. And by the way, Sonya Hakas Lewis.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Committed four felonies to beat an ethics complaint.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
She misled an ethics panel.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
She was given probation, as you said, but was she
allowed to speak to her intent of why she did
what she did?
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
She did, Yes you did.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
But listen, we're not talking about the intent like she
Tina had the intent to break the law her conduct.
She acted like a guilty person in the way that
she did this. She didn't act like an innocent person
doing innocent things for a greater good. She intentionally broke
the law and what she wanted to tell the jury
was but I had a really good reason for doing it,
(29:07):
and there are affirmative defenses that exist for that. Self
defense is a good one. Yes, I killed that person,
but I was defending myself from what I thought was
this application of serious bodily injury or deadly force. In
this particular case, the judge said that side show piece
the piece where she's like, yes, I broke the law,
but I had a really good reason for doing it.
Wasn't applicable to these facts. Now, maybe the Court of
(29:28):
Appeals comes back and disagrees. If they do, they're going
to have to have a retrial on this. But I'm
not convinced that that's accurate. I don't think you get
to commit any crime you want and say under the
umbrella of a complete defense, I get to tell the
jury why it was okay for me to do this
simply because I had a greater good in mind. That's
the choice of evil's defense, and it's not available in
(29:48):
every single case.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
George Brockler twenty third d. Eight down in Douglas County
joining us. And he's a fair arbiter because you're looking
over at Mason County, Dan Rubinstein, you're looking at denver
DA's office, going easy on Sonya Hawkes Lewis. That brings
me my next question. In either case Peters or Lewis, George,
are these county crimes or state level crimes? State level? Okay?
That leads me to this question, which is you you
(30:12):
mentioned the disparity, and we're talking about Mesa County versus
Denver County. And not only are those two different counties
people would contend and I think rightly so myself, yourself
and Ash. Those are two different states, Those are two
different countries, Those are two different planets when it comes
to the application of the law. So certainly there should
be a unifying standard for a state wide level crime
(30:33):
in which sentencing would be applicable, and even no matter
which county you're tried in. But what you're telling me is, well,
Democrat Democrat, Democrat in Denver DA, you know, Lewis walks
out of the courtroom, whereas Republican County DA jury, et cetera,
Tina Peters gets a nine year sentence. How is that?
How does that square with you in the legal system
on a statewide level.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
Well, one way to remedy that would be to build
in more mandatory sentences, and that would create more uniformity
across the state. But it doesn't take the discretion peace
out from the DA and deciding which charges to bring.
But candidly, this is something that has to be dealt
with at the voter level because, for instance, in Douglas County,
and you and I have talked about this, Ryan, we
have taken approach that, independent of the garbage that the
(31:16):
legislature has done with property crimes, you come down here
and steal from us, Our goal is to lock you up.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That's what we want to do.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Well, nobody else in the metro area takes that approach,
and I would not want the legislature to step in
and rob me of the discretion to be harsher on
those crimes which the community wants. This is like that.
It just feels very different because of the political nature
of it. And let's be honest, if Tina Peters had
engaged in the same behavior in the same way that
hakkez Lewis had engaged in, I don't think she sees
(31:45):
the inside of a prison or a jail cell. And
I think that's disappointing because I think, like I said,
any politician who commits a felony in the performance of
their duties ought to see the inside of a jail cell.
But what happened here is and this is what makes
it feel like Ash describes as a political processcution is
this issue was so hyper sensitive and so big and had,
in my opinion, the judge thought, had the potential to
(32:08):
bring a bunch of other things off the rails, that
they needed to make an example of her for what
she did and her recalcitrance at the time of her sentencing.
That's what makes it different here. I'm not telling you
I agree with it. I think that sentence is extraordinarily long,
and all polls would have to do would be to
commute her sentence back to three years. She'd be processed
(32:28):
in transition to community corrections within the month. But I
just think he's waiting for that piece that ashe asked for,
which was to be contrite. And she could be contrite
without admitting that her goals were wrong, or that she
was wrong, or that the election was not stolen. She
doesn't have to admit any of that to say I
had these bigger goals in mind, I just went about
(32:49):
it the wrong way. That would be all that was necessary.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Final question, George along all of those lines. Had Tina
Peters committed this crime in Douglas County under your jurisdiction,
and you were prospers this case, what do you feel
would have been a fair punishment sentence? What would you
have pursued?
Speaker 6 (33:07):
We would have been We would have pursued incarceration, no doubt,
but probably not the nine years. And I think for
this type of act, the real question is can you
get enough of a message out of the maximum jail
that you can get as a condition of probation, which
is ninety days. Once you leave that ninety days, If
that's no longer sufficient, then you have to seek prison.
(33:27):
And our prison system and our parole system are so
broken that if Tina had gotten let's say two years
three year prison sentence on some of these f four charges,
she would already be out. She would have been out
a long time ago. And so the question would have been,
what is that minimum amount of time that's necessary to
send the message we don't screw around when.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It comes to elections.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
And I should tell you everyone we've had that we
have convicted of an election fraud thing voting twice forgery.
We've asked for incarceration and they didn't have to be
the clerk in the re quarter to get it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Think that's different. So there'd have been incarceration, but not
nine years. Great insights follow him on x at George
Brockler the DA in the twenty third joining us here
on Ryan Schuling Live. George, Thanks for your time as always,
Thanks Ryan, Thanks Ash. All right, so one final time out.
Ash has a lot to say. I'm sure we'll wrap
it all up and we come back after this. Hey,
(34:21):
we're back, Tody Calms in the studio. We're just accumulating
people on this Friday, and you want to stay tuned
because comedian I just got this confirmed. Brian Callen will
be in studio with us, coming up after the top
of the hour. Now he's running on our schedules a
little bit behind ours down with the FMS on the
third floor. He should be back up by about ten
after the hour, so stay tuned for that. Toto will
(34:41):
also be in to and of course wrapping things up
right now with Ash app Ash in Americas where you
can find her on X so. Ash, I know you
were chomping at the bit the constraints of radio. I
apologize for those. George Brockler joined us, and I thought
gave us some tremendous insights. But just you're a dendum
your post mortem on what he had to say.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Well, we we heard it from him directly.
Speaker 7 (35:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Prosecutorial discretion, it's it's important, it's necessary, It allows for efficiency,
it even allows for mercy. Maybe it's all good things.
We need the prosecutorial discretion. And if you don't like
how it's wielded, will you just vote in a new prosecutor.
The distinction, I think is not that Sonya Hakas Lewis
was in a Democrat district and Tina Peters was in
(35:25):
a Republican one. It's that the beneficiaries that the elected
prosecutors in both of those districts are the beneficiaries of elections.
And so it's elections again, the permissible binary, the pageantry
of democracy, as Mark Elias is now calling it.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Yeah, that's that's the answer. Elections. You're just you're just
not allowed to ask questions about it. You are compelled.
We heard George Brockler, right.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Anybody that that is is in the election space that
finds themselves in the justice system, they're going to prison
if he has his way. You're not allowed to ask
questions about it. Elections are just so they can't be fake,
but what if they are, Well, we can't ask about that.
And from a prosecutorial discretion standpoint, what I think we
see Ryan is protecting the appearance of legitimacy at the
(36:13):
expense of investigating impropriety.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I'm really hung up. And George likes to use the
phrase wrapped around the axle. Here's where I'm wrapped around
the axle. Was the question that I asked him. Is
it a county crime or a state crime? If it
were a county crime, all right, counties have at it.
You're off to your own discretion. Masa County you do this,
Denver County, you do this. George Brocklin, Douglas County does this.
But this is a state level crime. Therefore the application
of the law should be uniform, no matter whether it
(36:37):
was Mesa County or Denver County. But that's not we're seeing.
It's not the case. There's such a wide discrepancy when
it comes to this issue of prosecutorial discretion that it's
no semblance of it is fair. And I kind of
get where Jared Poulos is coming from when he put
that post out on X.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah. I agree, and I wonder if we should have
if prosecutors should have as much discretion as they have
in such a hyperpartisan, hyper.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
Divided situation that we're in. I don't know, but I
think that when.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
You prioritize the appearance of legitimacy over truth and accuracy,
when that happens, I think you've weaponized the government. And
I'm pretty grateful that President Trump is looking at that.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Well, let's dream a little dream here and dream a
little dream of me now of fair elections and what
the Save America Act would do if passed. And we know,
you know, I had this kind of terse exchange with
the one Dick Watdams yesterday about Senator John Thune, in
his capacity as Majority Leader, getting this to the Senate floor,
forcing the Democrats to have to do a standing talking
(37:38):
filibuster for hours on end. You go ahead and tell
us why you oppose government issued photo ID proof of
citizens ship to vote once and only once for every
American citizen, so no illegal alien can vote, so no
dead person can vote, so no person can vote twice.
And he's not doing it. But let's just say we
advanced the football down the field and somehow, by some miracle,
(37:58):
it gets to President Trump's desk, he signs it into law.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
What changes, Well, you have greater clarity on who's voting
in elections, and you have a better chance of only
eligible voters voting in elections. And I think that that's
definitely something that we need. Does that solve all of
our problems? Does that solve our government corruption problem? Does
that get us to verifiably accurate results? Not by itself,
(38:21):
but it's an important first step.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Finally, ash where people can find you and what you're
up to next.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, linktree dot com, slash ash in America has the
show schedule, the place where all the writing is. And
I'll tell you what, Ryan, I don't actually want to
be want to be focused on politics all the time.
What I'm what I'm doing on the side is soft
disclosure dot com and American made Colorado made actually for
Colorado businesses involved in these products. You want to, you know,
(38:48):
make better choices for your skincare and your healthcare soft
disclosure dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
And I joked about the Ship's Creek episode al e
vou there where David Rose and Moira we're selling those products,
but this one has not invaded the whole town. I
mean this is specific to you. And they're locally sourced, right.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
So willow Wind Farm out in Westcliffe here in Colorado.
They make the products, The supply chain is sourced from
local farms, local ranchers, America made America first and excellent products.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
She is fearless, she is fierce, and she is fantastic.
Ash app joining us here on Ryan Schuling Live today
in studio for the full hour at ASH in America.
That's Ash with an E in America on x ASH.
It's been a delight. Please come back. Thanks for having Okay,
you didn't scare me. Some people are scared of her.
I could name names. She knows them. A break. When
(39:35):
we come back, your chance to hear and your chance
to see Brian Callen comedy works downtown. He's a common
and he'll join me, Jody Calm, Christian Toto when we
return after this and Ryan Schuling Live
KRFX HG two, Denver KHW Denver, Denver's talk stationn iHeartRadio station.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Guaranteed Human.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
It's Tina Peters willing to fake remorse to get out
of prison because it looks like that's what it's gonna take.
Governor Polis here yesterday listed off why he is inclined
to give Peter's clemency if she will show contrition and
apologize for her actions, like everyone else who sentenced the
governor has ever commuted. I pressed him on it, and
he said that remorse and accountability must happen for Peters
(00:35):
to receive clemency. Tina Peters has been remarkably consistent that
she is not at all remorseful for leading a breach
of Colorado's voting systems in search of fraud. She does
take responsibility for her actions, as in, she doesn't deny
what she did.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
She's proud of it.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
She's embraced her status as a martyr of the stolen
elections crowd, and the first rule of martyr club is
you gotta see it through to the end.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No real martyr gives up.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
And says, hey, you know what I was wrong, didn't
mean any of that, Sorry for the trouble guys.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'll be on my way now.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
There are plenty of people who pretend to believe all
that stolen election stuff for power, for profit, for politics.
There is even some evidence that President Trump and his
inner circle don't actually believe it. Tina Peters believes it,
while others have lined their pockets off stolen election claims.
Peters went to prison. I don't think she'll fake remorse
(01:29):
to get out. But if she did, right, maybe in
just one letter to the governor asking for clemency, would
Governor Polus really be willing to pretend that Tina Peters
means it and turn her loose.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, absolutely he would.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Because it seems that the governor is not just willing
to grant clemency to Tina Peters, he is eager to
do it. Except he's now insisting that she first showed
contrition and apologized for her crimes. The bad news for
Governor Polis is is I don't think Tina Peters is
willing to fake remorse to get out of prison.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Comrade Kyle nine News opining about Governor Jared Polis a
brief conversation he had. Polis has retreated a little bit
from his original post on x in which he didn't
mention anything about conditions for Tina Peters having to apologize
or take accountability for what she did or how she
did it or why she did it. It was just, Wow,
this doesn't seem fair, and it's going to come into
(02:27):
my decision making process, and I'm going to extend the
application deadline to early April for clemency cases like hers,
and kind of opened the door to that. And then
in came the criticisms from Adam Kinsinger. Let's go there
real quick, Shan. I know you're on the other side
of the glass, but I just want to get this
criticism from Adam Kensinger. It's cut seven f and he
(02:49):
comes jumping in off the top rope for our business
here in Colorado at.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
A time when we need to be standing up against
authoritarians and against authoritarianism.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
For Jared Polis.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
To do this, even to throw out the idea of it,
and once you throw out the idea, you're going.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
But for him to do this spits in the face
of people who have been fighting against the big lie
that the election was stolen.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It spits in the.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Face of those of us that are fighting hard to
ensure that the democracy and that our election system is fair, free, safe,
and free from these accusations. Jared Polis, the Democratic governor
of Colorado, ought to be quite ashamed of himself to
even consider this.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Adam kinse crying, Adam Kinzinger, he's always crying. I don't
know why he's crying. I never cry. I don't cry
at all. But he should be ashamed of himself for
his token placement on the jan sixth committee, as hand
picked by Nancy Pelosi. Who does that? How does that
happen with both him, Liz Cheney, Kevin McCarthy, the Speaker
(04:01):
of the House at the time, had appointed, like Jim Jordan,
several of the Republicans. Nancy Pelosi says, well, no, we're
not going to play ball. We're going to dictate the terms.
Who gets to be on this committee from your party.
This seems to be a running theme, by the way,
for the Democrats, including Jenna Griswold, who came out with
a statement criticizing Governor Polis and his consideration of granting
clemency to Tina Peters. You might remember Jenna Griswold most
(04:22):
recently falsely claiming that she argued before the Supreme Court
of the United States. That was a lie, as Kyle
Clark pointed out, and not only that, it was a
case that was defeated nine to nothing, including all three
liberal justices, as to whether Donald Trump should appear on
our primary ballot, our primary ballot. And when I say
(04:44):
that I'm a Republican, I vote in the primary. Democrats don't.
They have nothing to do with it. GTFO out of
my primary. You have no business tell me if, like
I said, if btk's on the ballot and we want
that as Republicans, then we get to do that, just
like a Democrat gets to determine whoever they want on
their ballot. I don't care. I'm not a Democrat. I
(05:05):
don't vote in the Democrat primary. However, Jenna Griswold, Mario Nicholas,
Krista Kaefer, all these people that were enjoined that lawsuit
were saying, no, no, you Rubes are too stupid to
figure out who you should be voting for when it
comes to the presidential race. And we don't want you
to have Donald Trump as an option because of the
fourteenth Amendment, and he incited an insurrection and therefore he's disqualified.
(05:28):
That the point being keep your eye on the ball here.
The reason they didn't want Donald Trump on the ballot
was not because he was this disqualified candidate that they
thought they could beat. Because if they thought they could
beat him and he was such a bad candidate, put
him on the ballot. Let's roll. But no, they were
afraid he was going to win, and therefore the motivation
(05:49):
was entirely political. So that's Jenna Griswold for you, bringing
in Ash Epps. She is on exit ash in America.
That's Ash with an E. So what you just heard
there Ash from both Kyle Clark Adam Kinzinger. Your response
to your.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Reaction, Well, I want to thank Kyle Clark because if
it wasn't for his reporting about Jenna Griswold, I wouldn't
have known that. As a layman pro sae litigan, I've
actually argued in one more cases than Jenna Griswold in
federal court.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
How about that.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
It's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
But I want to go back to what he characterized
her intent in that clip that you played. He said,
she's really embraced her status as a martyr. Now that
is important because that was the state's benefit harm. Theory
of why Tina Peters did what she did, and that
intent comes from the official misconduct misdemeanor charge, the felonies
(06:41):
for attempted to attempt to influence a public official, the
three felonies, and then the three felonies for that, and
then the conspiracy which was presented as a felony, sentenced
as a felony, but was actually a misdemeanor. These are
the issues with her due process Tina Peters to process
that came up on her. The only way we get
to the only time in her trial we get to
(07:03):
her intent is in that official misconduct charge. And that's
kind of where they threw everything that they that wasn't
a crime, right, so she turned the cameras off, well,
it was lawful for her to turn the cameras off.
She was never allowed to explain to the jury why
she did it, but they threw these kinds of details
into the official misconduct charge. Then they characterized the official
misconduct her intent of the official misconduct because there is
(07:24):
a statutory intent requirement for that charge. They characterized it
as the benefit for herself.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Was internet fame. She wanted to be the hero.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
She wanted to be see she wanted to get on
the stage, she wanted to fly on the plane, she
wanted to be the hero. The problem is she was
never allowed to defend that characterization of her intent. And
you don't have to take my word for it, Judge
Tao at the appellate hearing set and I quote, the
official misconduct charge was charged as with the intent to
receive a benefit for herself. Why is it not relevant
to the jury for her to say, I didn't intend
(07:53):
to receive a benefit for myself. I intended to do
what I thought was my job and protect the election process.
Why was that evidence not relevant at least.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
To the charge? That's what the appellate court asked the state.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Lisa Michaels was the attorney arguing for the AG's office.
Now what we hear in this and the news is, oh,
my gosh, there might be some sort of clemency, right,
she needs to show contrition for clemency. But what Kyle
Clark is actually doing is forwarding the same mischaracterization in
my opinion, of her intent as the state and the
(08:28):
county did during her trial. And it is one of
the most egregious to process violations that Tina Peters had
is that the jury was informed what her intent was. Sure,
it's just.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
On one of the misdemeanor charges. But here's the problem.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Can you unerring that bell, Can you tell the jury
that her intent was to receive all this benefit for
herself and then well, that only applies to the misdemeanor.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
It wasn't the case for the felonies.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You can't do that, and so that to me, Listen,
if Tina Peters was a sex offender the way her
her case was treated, she'd be out by now.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
A true fact. Now you said during the break that
you actually agree with Kyle Clark's assertion there that she
will not express remorse, to regret contrition what apparently Governor
Polis is now citing as a condition of him granting
her clemency.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yes, I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I don't believe that she will show contrition, and why not.
I don't believe that she thinks she did anything wrong,
but not even.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
To faked to get out of prison. I mean, that's
the past. Jared Polis has given her the roadmap to
get out of prison, like just say you're sorry and
you'll get out. And she's still not going to do it.
You don't think.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I don't. I don't, so I could be wrong, and
I'm I'm not into her head.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
You've spoken with her attorneys and they offered up a
very I thought, conciliatory statement, thanking Jared Polis for this opportunity.
They're going to apply for clemency come April.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm not sure that's what they said, actually, so when
I pressed them on clemency, I was told there's no
missing paperwork me, which which you can on its face
take to mean they already did apply for clemency, or
it could mean that the pardon that President Trump handed
down that they believe that that's enough to get her
out of prison. I don't know what they're going to do,
(10:12):
but I don't but I would be shocked. And I
know Tina Peters. I followed this case since her office
was raided in August of twenty twenty one, and I
don't believe that she will fake remorse to get out
of prison. I think that Tina Peters is in has
always been so I disagree with the state's characterization of
her intent as being she wanted to be Internet famous.
(10:35):
I don't think that was ever true. And again she
was never allowed to dispute that characterization to the jury.
I don't think she's now going to accept it in
order to get out of prison.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
I think that she's in this for justice.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Ash Out in studio with us here for the full hour.
Ash in America on X use the word fake. Speaking
of fake, Jared Polis, his compassion is empathy. This is
a gold star mom. She's seventy years old, She's had
some health issues, and she shouldn't be in prison anymore
than State Senator Sonya Hakez Lewis, who was sentenced to
(11:08):
probation and community service after being convicted of four felonies,
including attempt to influence a public official. Out of the
goodness of his heart and a sense of fairness, Jared
Polis is considering clemency for Tina Peters, or alternatively, President
Trump has put the screws to Colorado and he's got
to get the president off of our backs right.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well, absolutely, absolutely the levers that President Trump has to
So if we take as true that the presidential pardon
cannot apply to state level crimes, which seems to be
what everybody is taking true, Notably, that is one of
the matters on appeal and is expected to go to
the Supreme Court. It's expected that the Colorado Court of
Appeals will deny that the assertion that or the motion
(11:52):
that President Trump's pardon should get Tina Peters out of prison.
But then that's expected to go to the Supreme Court.
But if we set that aside, the clemency question is,
if we set that aside, the pardon aside, the levers
that President Trump really have our discretionary funding and Colorado
is drunk, conspending and heavily dependent on federal subsidies. And
(12:13):
so President Trump is putting the screws to the administration
here and it's it's been very painful. We saw during
this special session last year how painful the funding cuts,
the federal cuts have been here in Colorado. So I
think President Trump is pulling the levers that he's able
to pull. I also think that I think you mentioned
this on your show yesterday, Jared pulls very likely running
(12:35):
for president and an attempt to get the vice the
vice presidential spot on the Democrat ticket for twenty twenty eight.
When Jared Pulis is running for office, he pretends to
be libertarian, and that's that's kind of where we are.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I think this text five seven seven three nine. You
can join the conversation that way or by POHLM three
zero three seven one three eight two five five. Kyle
Clark should ask Polish what would Kim Kardashian do about
Tina Peters. Toche well played and to Kyle Clark's credit,
he has pressed police on the Kim Kardashian angle with
the runaway trucker whose sentence was reduced from one hundred
(13:09):
and ten years to ten years. This from the real
Ralph a text to Dan Kaplis yesterday as a Republican
believing the election was not stolen. Talking about Dan, I
believe you are in the minority. The twenty twenty election
was engineered and thus stolen. The squashing of the Hunter
Biden laptop story is sufficient for that. However, there is
a February twenty twenty one issue of Time magazine explaining
(13:31):
how the cabalt was engineering it. This doesn't even take
into account all the shenanigans that occurred in Georgia, Pennsylvania,
Michigan and other swing states. There are two Joe PAGs
interviews with key individuals on his YouTube site who have
evidence saying that they have turned it over to the DOJ.
That from the real Ralph, I know you have been
necked deep in this entire story with regard to a
(13:52):
stolen election twenty twenty, it's a controversial topic and I
interviewed Dick Wadams just yesterday. He says that any any
radioactive is this issue one for like a representative Scott
Botams to say Tina Peters did nothing wrong. She should
be fully pardoned. She was trying to do her job.
The twenty twenty election was stolen. And here's how that
(14:12):
that is anathema to any Republican winning statewide office, in
particular the governor's race. One, how do you respond to
that ash? And two what are your thoughts on the
twenty twenty election and whether it was stolen?
Speaker 5 (14:24):
So well, I agree that you can't say that Tina
Peters did.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Nothing wrong because there was a COVID emergency rule passed
by Jenna's office that only employees could be in the
room when the trusted build was taking place. Tina Peters
made a misrepresentation to three public officials, one that Conan
(14:52):
Hayes was Jerry Wood, and that misrepresentation is the four felonies,
and so you can't say she didn't do that, stipulated
to it at our trial.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
So to me it is a mistake.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I agree with Wattam's on that and I and I
think it hurts you because it's so easily demungible as
far as the election goes. Listen, we can talk about
how the districts are drawn. We can talk about the
voter rolls. We can talk about the Save America Act
and what's that, what that's going to do. Why is
there such resistance to cleaning the voter roles.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
There's a you know, judicial watch versus.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Griswold here and non compliance with the consent decree happened.
We can talk about the ballot on demand printers and
the the appearance of impropriety as it pertains to contracts
related to elections here when you have you know, people
with satutory authority over the vendor, the vendors. We're in
(15:49):
a public private partnership over election, right, So we have
vendors that have are kind of acting as an arm
of the government. And then you see the beneficiaries of
those of those elections that their spouses or you know,
siblings are working for those elections. We have some of
that down in Colorado Springs with Rumbeck election services. Former
Secretary of State Wayne Williams, senior advisor to Runbeck, and
(16:13):
you know, his wife was sitting on the county commissioner
board overseeing Rumbeck funding and I'll pass out county and
now she recused herself from the vote after it was
pointed out that the conflict existed.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
But that's the system that we have.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
It's very murky. And here's the problem. You can't ask
questions about it. So when I first started looking at
the twenty twenty election, I was I thought, well, we'll expose,
we'll see what's going on.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Well, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Be fine.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Didn't We didn't get a.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Chance to ask questions before we were demonized about it,
and for me, that was a red flag. I spent
from two thousand and one to twenty seventeen at an SEC.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Audit firm, and at an SEC audit.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Firm, every single year, every employee in the firm has
to take training, mandatory training, pass a test, and and
make an attestation that you will be independent. Why because
public trust and capital markets is just that important, and
the appearance of impropriety is just as bad as impropriety itself.
When it comes to public trust, well, arguably public trust
(17:16):
and elections is more important. But when we ask questions,
I'll tell you what. I took that training every single year.
It's hard, four hours, take a.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Big test at the end of it.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
The conduct that you're trained to spot as evident of corruption, obstruction, lying,
manipulating documents, taking them down, changing them, putting them back up.
That's the behavior, the conduct of our government. In the
wake of twenty twenty election and since so, Yeah, I
think elections are fake and I think it's theater. I
(17:48):
think it's meant to pacify the people, and the powerful
people will allow you to ask questions about anything except
how they obtain their power.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
This from a Texter. I'm sure if Tina Peters was
a Democrat, she'd fake remorse and she'd be very good
at it. Yes, the theater of the mind esh in
America on X writer host activist Victor be Unconquerable. That
is her ex header and at ash with an E
in America's where you can follow her on that platform.
We'll take this time out the DA. The District Attorney
(18:19):
of the twenty third George Brockler joins us next to
talk about the disparity in sentencing and prosecutorial discretion when
it comes to a case like Tina Peters from his
own first hand perspective down there in Douglas County. Back
with that after this on Ryan Schuling.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Life, Colorado's governor is ready to hand Tina Peters to
get out of jail free card if she's willing to
do the one thing she hasn't done yet, show remorse
for her crime of leading a breach of Colorado's voting systems.
Peters and President Trump, of course, are not one bit sorry.
They say Peters is a political prisoner, that her nine
(18:56):
year sentence is unfair, and that Colorado is going to
be punished on till she's free. Democratic Governor Jared Poulos
made it pretty clear to me late this afternoon, the
only thing standing between Tina Peters and her freedom.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Is her showing remorse.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Has your view of whether Tina Peters deserved clemency changed
over time or are people just interpreting your words differently?
Speaker 7 (19:19):
This one has always stood out to me, Kyle as
a very long sentence. Just to put things in perspective,
we have eighteen thousand or so prisoners. We cannot find
any other non violent first time offenders over seventy in
our entire system, so I haven't seen a single one.
So on its face, this would be a good applicant.
Now you have to put on top of that, of course,
(19:41):
the impact of the crime, the notoriety of the crime.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
What she actually did, Tina Peter shows no remorse, takes
no accountability or responsibility.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Does that matter? Yes, that is a very important part.
So what she would have to show.
Speaker 7 (19:57):
In any type of successful clemency application would be appropriate contrition, apology.
That's the kind of thing that I would be looking for.
I've looked for it in other cases. It's not the
only thing, Kyle. There's also sentencing disparities. That's one of
the issues here. Agent health are a factor and is
cited in a few of the ones you looked at.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
But absolutely how.
Speaker 7 (20:20):
An inmate plans on making good with any time reduction
that they receive is part of what I look at.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
There are times that it seems to me like you
want to give her clemency more than she wants it,
right because if she's in she's a martyr, And it
seems to me like you've been working really hard to
come up with a justification to give her clemency when
she won't do so much as to say, yeah, I
broke the law and I'm sorry.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
I'm not looking at you know, is she a martyror?
Is she not? I'm not looking at what you know,
you or what the president or what the Democrats say.
I really just try to look at does this, you know,
meet my standards in terms of is there a disparate sentence?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I believe there is?
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Here? Is there contrition and apology?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
We need to see that contrition, apology, remorse, none of that.
None of those words were used in this very extensive
post on ax Jared Polis inciting the discrepancy in sentencing
between Tina Peters and former state Senator Sonya Hakez Lewis,
who was also convicted of four felonies, including attempt to
influence a public official. So what changed? Why did he
(21:26):
feel the need to kind of clean that up, move
the goal post, say that to Kyle Clarke, Oh, well, no,
she's got to be sorry and then maybe we'll grant
her clemency. Well, I turned my lonely eyes and ears
to the twenty third District Attorney George Brockler, who is
in this very position as a prosecutor of pursuing sentences
for criminal offenders, and he joins us now on Ryan
Schuling Live Gee brock.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
What's up, Brian Ash? How's it going?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Ah? Yes, good to have her along as well. And
my first question for you, though, George, just what is
your reaction to what you just heard? What is the
motivation behind Jared pol Is doing this politically? Is he
just going Leroy Jenkins here? Because Phil Wiser AG is
pushed back on this. Jenna Griswold, Secretary of State running
for AG is pushed back on this. Adam Kinzinger. Are
(22:11):
the National Democrats or those that lean that way pushing
back on this? So what's your assessment of it?
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Well, first off with the teen of Peace, and I
agree with Ash's assessment largely. And that is for those
people that say, hey, she didn't break the law, she
didn't do anything wrong, and they wrapped themselves around the
idea of a necessary evil, just none of that is
accurate or applicable. She broke the law. I think it's
unequivocal that she broke the law and she should be
(22:38):
convicted Now, if Polis was dithering over whether or not
to grant her the type of clemency that takes the
form of a pardon, I think everybody should be a
little outraged. But the clemency he's being asked to consider,
and apparently not by teen I don't even know if
she's made a formal application or not, is to just
reduce down the length of her sentence. That seems like
a much easier pull. It's one that he could find
(23:00):
cover for with this hakes Lewis outcome. I've got my
own thoughts on that. But you know, Phil Wiser's running
for office and he is tacking hard to the left
of Bennett, so he has to take this position. But
what's interesting is we don't hear Phil come out and
say it's an abomination that hakkes Lewis committed felonies on
the job under the Gold Dome and she gets to
(23:21):
walk out of the courtroom. That to me should be
a position that he takes if he wants to look
bipartisan in this, But he doesn't. And Kinsinger, who cares.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, I agree with I agree with the last part certainly, so,
So I think the problem here one I think that
a part in any sort of clemency requires contrition in
in my opinion, I don't, I don't. I think that
this is you know, making a making a part of
this story. That's that that really doesn't matter. I think
(23:51):
what what they're asking her to do to show remorse
in this is to buy the state's story of why
she did what she did. And George, I'd love your
tape on how you could so set aside the clemency
for a second. Let's talk about the appeal, because this
case is on appeal. The Colorado Court of Appeals heard
it last month, and on at least three issues, seemed
(24:13):
like they felt that they were talking as though some
sort of remedy was required because of how the state
handled the case of state and county.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
You know, we.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Hear that Masa County prosecuted this case during the the
you know, parts of the trial where the jury wasn't present.
The Shapiro from the AG's office tried to have the
judge rebuke the defense for suggesting that the state was involved.
They wanted to be referred to as working on behalf
of Masa County. This was it was, in my opinion,
(24:47):
of political prosecution. The prosecutorial discretion is what allowed it
to go the way that it went. And I'd love
your take, George on how once the state characterized her
intent on the misdemeanor, that doesn't bias the jury without
her being allowed to defend the state's characterization of her
intent the how that doesn't bias the jury on the
(25:09):
rest of the charges, considering, of course, as you know
as a prosecutor, that our justice system protects the rights
of the accused in a profound way.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, good question.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
I didn't listen to the entire appellate argument, but I
did listen to the portions with Judge Ted Tao, who's
also a former prosecutor, former head of the Colorado District
Attorney's Council, and I believe there's a way for Tina
to win some portions of the appeal without the entire
conviction being overturned and it being remanded back to the
trial judge to make some other sentencing rulings. But in
(25:45):
terms of not allowing her to provide a defense, I'm
not sure I agree with that what she wanted to
run was not what her intent was. But hey, my
goal was I was trying to cure a greater evil.
It's to call the choice of evils defense that the
judge found, and I agree with you isn't applicable here
to this particular conduct. So I don't agree that she
wasn't allowed to put on a defense. You can't just
(26:06):
say anything in trial. It's got to be within the
realm of the law in terms of the discretion piece though.
I mean, listen, you had a Republican DA in a
Republican county, with a Republican grand jury and a judge
who was a former prosecutor all preside over this. It
doesn't mean it wasn't mistake free. But I think the
idea that it was a political prosecution is only invited
(26:28):
by the fact that Rob Shapiro, who have known for decades,
is from the AG's office, and his goal was to
try to minimize the role of the state for obvious reasons.
I'm not sure as a judge I would have entertained that.
I don't think that's really that big of a deal,
and I don't know that jurors would get wrapped around
the axle on that. I think if you look at
Hakez Lewis, she's a Democrat in a Democrat city with
(26:52):
a Democrat jury and a Democrat DA and judges who
were appointed by Democrats.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Who sat over her.
Speaker 6 (26:58):
I'm not sure that was a political prosecution either. I
think the real disappointment in Hakez Lewis is the minute
the jury came back after this three day trial in
which she testified, and I think the jury rejected her statements,
basically calling her a liar. Is out walking out of
the courtroom. The chief prosecutor says, we're only going to
seek probation. Why can't we just all agree that if
(27:20):
you're an elected official and you're convicted of felonies for
what you do on the job in your elected capacity,
you ought to see the inside of a cell. And
it doesn't matter what it is. Felonies are a big deal.
You ought to go to jail for felonies. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I'm going to push back on you on her being
able to defend, on her to present her defenses, and
I'm going to quote Judge Taw to you since you.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Cited him.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
When it quote When it comes to a defendant's constitutional
right to present a complete defense, does a trial court
have the ability to curtail that in the interest of
not letting quote the sideshow overcome the circus. Do they
have the constitutional right to present a complete defense? The
court can prevent cumulative or irrelevant evidence, but I can't,
but it cannot curtail the presentation of relevant evidence. Why
(28:08):
she did what she did is relevant, and you could
say it doesn't matter, But then you have to throw
out the misdemeanor for official misconduct because there's.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
An intent requirement.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You cannot allow the state to present the to characterize
her intent to the jury and refuse to allow her
to present a.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Defense for that. And by the way, Sonya Hakas Lewis.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Committed four felonies to beat an ethics complaint.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
She misled an ethics panel.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
She was given probation, as you said, but was she
allowed to speak to her intent of why she did
what she did?
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
She did, Yes you did.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
But listen, we're not talking about the intent like she
Tina had the intent to break the law her conduct.
She acted like a guilty person in the way that
she did this. She didn't act like an innocent person
doing innocent things for a greater good. She intentionally broke
the law and what she wanted to tell the jury
was but I had a really good reason for doing it,
(29:07):
and there are affirmative defenses that exist for that. Self
defense is a good one. Yes, I killed that person,
but I was defending myself from what I thought was
this application of serious bodily injury or deadly force. In
this particular case, the judge said that side show piece
the piece where she's like, yes, I broke the law,
but I had a really good reason for doing it.
Wasn't applicable to these facts. Now, maybe the Court of
(29:28):
Appeals comes back and disagrees. If they do, they're going
to have to have a retrial on this. But I'm
not convinced that that's accurate. I don't think you get
to commit any crime you want and say under the
umbrella of a complete defense, I get to tell the
jury why it was okay for me to do this
simply because I had a greater good in mind. That's
the choice of evil's defense, and it's not available in
(29:48):
every single case.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
George Brockler twenty third d. Eight down in Douglas County
joining us. And he's a fair arbiter because you're looking
over at Mason County, Dan Rubinstein, you're looking at denver
DA's office, going easy on Sonya Hawkes Lewis. That brings
me my next question. In either case Peters or Lewis, George,
are these county crimes or state level crimes? State level? Okay?
That leads me to this question, which is you you
(30:12):
mentioned the disparity, and we're talking about Mesa County versus
Denver County. And not only are those two different counties
people would contend and I think rightly so myself, yourself
and Ash. Those are two different states, Those are two
different countries, Those are two different planets when it comes
to the application of the law. So certainly there should
be a unifying standard for a state wide level crime
(30:33):
in which sentencing would be applicable, and even no matter
which county you're tried in. But what you're telling me is, well,
Democrat Democrat, Democrat in Denver DA, you know, Lewis walks
out of the courtroom, whereas Republican County DA jury, et cetera,
Tina Peters gets a nine year sentence. How is that?
How does that square with you in the legal system
on a statewide level.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
Well, one way to remedy that would be to build
in more mandatory sentences, and that would create more uniformity
across the state. But it doesn't take the discretion peace
out from the DA and deciding which charges to bring.
But candidly, this is something that has to be dealt
with at the voter level because, for instance, in Douglas County,
and you and I have talked about this, Ryan, we
have taken approach that, independent of the garbage that the
(31:16):
legislature has done with property crimes, you come down here
and steal from us, Our goal is to lock you up.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
That's what we want to do.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Well, nobody else in the metro area takes that approach,
and I would not want the legislature to step in
and rob me of the discretion to be harsher on
those crimes which the community wants. This is like that.
It just feels very different because of the political nature
of it. And let's be honest, if Tina Peters had
engaged in the same behavior in the same way that
hakkez Lewis had engaged in, I don't think she sees
(31:45):
the inside of a prison or a jail cell. And
I think that's disappointing because I think, like I said,
any politician who commits a felony in the performance of
their duties ought to see the inside of a jail cell.
But what happened here is and this is what makes
it feel like Ash describes as a political processcution is
this issue was so hyper sensitive and so big and had,
in my opinion, the judge thought, had the potential to
(32:08):
bring a bunch of other things off the rails, that
they needed to make an example of her for what
she did and her recalcitrance at the time of her sentencing.
That's what makes it different here. I'm not telling you
I agree with it. I think that sentence is extraordinarily long,
and all polls would have to do would be to
commute her sentence back to three years. She'd be processed
(32:28):
in transition to community corrections within the month. But I
just think he's waiting for that piece that ashe asked for,
which was to be contrite. And she could be contrite
without admitting that her goals were wrong, or that she
was wrong, or that the election was not stolen. She
doesn't have to admit any of that to say I
had these bigger goals in mind, I just went about
(32:49):
it the wrong way. That would be all that was necessary.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Final question, George along all of those lines. Had Tina
Peters committed this crime in Douglas County under your jurisdiction,
and you were prospers this case, what do you feel
would have been a fair punishment sentence? What would you
have pursued?
Speaker 6 (33:07):
We would have been We would have pursued incarceration, no doubt,
but probably not the nine years. And I think for
this type of act, the real question is can you
get enough of a message out of the maximum jail
that you can get as a condition of probation, which
is ninety days. Once you leave that ninety days, If
that's no longer sufficient, then you have to seek prison.
(33:27):
And our prison system and our parole system are so
broken that if Tina had gotten let's say two years
three year prison sentence on some of these f four charges,
she would already be out. She would have been out
a long time ago. And so the question would have been,
what is that minimum amount of time that's necessary to
send the message we don't screw around when.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It comes to elections.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
And I should tell you everyone we've had that we
have convicted of an election fraud thing voting twice forgery.
We've asked for incarceration and they didn't have to be
the clerk in the re quarter to get it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Think that's different. So there'd have been incarceration, but not
nine years. Great insights follow him on x at George
Brockler the DA in the twenty third joining us here
on Ryan Schuling Live. George, Thanks for your time as always,
Thanks Ryan, Thanks Ash. All right, so one final time out.
Ash has a lot to say. I'm sure we'll wrap
it all up and we come back after this. Hey,
(34:21):
we're back, Tody Calms in the studio. We're just accumulating
people on this Friday, and you want to stay tuned
because comedian I just got this confirmed. Brian Callen will
be in studio with us, coming up after the top
of the hour. Now he's running on our schedules a
little bit behind ours down with the FMS on the
third floor. He should be back up by about ten
after the hour, so stay tuned for that. Toto will
(34:41):
also be in to and of course wrapping things up
right now with Ash app Ash in Americas where you
can find her on X so. Ash, I know you
were chomping at the bit the constraints of radio. I
apologize for those. George Brockler joined us, and I thought
gave us some tremendous insights. But just you're a dendum
your post mortem on what he had to say.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Well, we we heard it from him directly.
Speaker 7 (35:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Prosecutorial discretion, it's it's important, it's necessary, It allows for efficiency,
it even allows for mercy. Maybe it's all good things.
We need the prosecutorial discretion. And if you don't like
how it's wielded, will you just vote in a new prosecutor.
The distinction, I think is not that Sonya Hakas Lewis
was in a Democrat district and Tina Peters was in
(35:25):
a Republican one. It's that the beneficiaries that the elected
prosecutors in both of those districts are the beneficiaries of elections.
And so it's elections again, the permissible binary, the pageantry
of democracy, as Mark Elias is now calling it.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Yeah, that's that's the answer. Elections. You're just you're just
not allowed to ask questions about it. You are compelled.
We heard George Brockler, right.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Anybody that that is is in the election space that
finds themselves in the justice system, they're going to prison
if he has his way. You're not allowed to ask
questions about it. Elections are just so they can't be fake,
but what if they are, Well, we can't ask about that.
And from a prosecutorial discretion standpoint, what I think we
see Ryan is protecting the appearance of legitimacy at the
(36:13):
expense of investigating impropriety.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I'm really hung up. And George likes to use the
phrase wrapped around the axle. Here's where I'm wrapped around
the axle. Was the question that I asked him. Is
it a county crime or a state crime? If it
were a county crime, all right, counties have at it.
You're off to your own discretion. Masa County you do this,
Denver County, you do this. George Brocklin, Douglas County does this.
But this is a state level crime. Therefore the application
of the law should be uniform, no matter whether it
(36:37):
was Mesa County or Denver County. But that's not we're seeing.
It's not the case. There's such a wide discrepancy when
it comes to this issue of prosecutorial discretion that it's
no semblance of it is fair. And I kind of
get where Jared Poulos is coming from when he put
that post out on X.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah. I agree, and I wonder if we should have
if prosecutors should have as much discretion as they have
in such a hyperpartisan, hyper.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
Divided situation that we're in. I don't know, but I
think that when.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
You prioritize the appearance of legitimacy over truth and accuracy,
when that happens, I think you've weaponized the government. And
I'm pretty grateful that President Trump is looking at that.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Well, let's dream a little dream here and dream a
little dream of me now of fair elections and what
the Save America Act would do if passed. And we know,
you know, I had this kind of terse exchange with
the one Dick Watdams yesterday about Senator John Thune, in
his capacity as Majority Leader, getting this to the Senate floor,
forcing the Democrats to have to do a standing talking
(37:38):
filibuster for hours on end. You go ahead and tell
us why you oppose government issued photo ID proof of
citizens ship to vote once and only once for every
American citizen, so no illegal alien can vote, so no
dead person can vote, so no person can vote twice.
And he's not doing it. But let's just say we
advanced the football down the field and somehow, by some miracle,
(37:58):
it gets to President Trump's desk, he signs it into law.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
What changes, Well, you have greater clarity on who's voting
in elections, and you have a better chance of only
eligible voters voting in elections. And I think that that's
definitely something that we need. Does that solve all of
our problems? Does that solve our government corruption problem? Does
that get us to verifiably accurate results? Not by itself,
(38:21):
but it's an important first step.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Finally, ash where people can find you and what you're
up to next.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, linktree dot com, slash ash in America has the
show schedule, the place where all the writing is. And
I'll tell you what, Ryan, I don't actually want to
be want to be focused on politics all the time.
What I'm what I'm doing on the side is soft
disclosure dot com and American made Colorado made actually for
Colorado businesses involved in these products. You want to, you know,
(38:48):
make better choices for your skincare and your healthcare soft
disclosure dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
And I joked about the Ship's Creek episode al e
vou there where David Rose and Moira we're selling those products,
but this one has not invaded the whole town. I
mean this is specific to you. And they're locally sourced, right.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
So willow Wind Farm out in Westcliffe here in Colorado.
They make the products, The supply chain is sourced from
local farms, local ranchers, America made America first and excellent products.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
She is fearless, she is fierce, and she is fantastic.
Ash app joining us here on Ryan Schuling Live today
in studio for the full hour at ASH in America.
That's Ash with an E in America on x ASH.
It's been a delight. Please come back. Thanks for having Okay,
you didn't scare me. Some people are scared of her.
I could name names. She knows them. A break. When
(39:35):
we come back, your chance to hear and your chance
to see Brian Callen comedy works downtown. He's a common
and he'll join me, Jody Calm, Christian Toto when we
return after this and Ryan Schuling Live
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