May 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Jimmy Sengenberger is filling in for Ryan Schuilling today. In the first hour of the show, Jimmy shares his takes on what Star Wars: Andor says about America and Colorado's political landscape.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jimmy Sangenberger filling in for Ryan Schuling today, who I
know is going to be enjoying watching his tigers. Good
to be with you on a day that, gosh, has
turned into a heck of a news day, without question,
without a doubt, a massive news day on the world stage,
(00:24):
because there is a new pope, a American, an American,
Pope Leo the fourteenth, making history in a way that
I and I'm Catholic, I never anticipated that something like
(00:46):
this would happen, and yet here we are with the
selection an election by the College of Cardinals of the
first American pontiff. Later on in the program we will
(01:06):
dive in more to this subject and some of the
questions swirling about.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Pope Leo the fourteenth.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Born in Chicago, he is all of sixty nine years old,
which is Pope's goo is quite young, especially if he
serves twenty twenty five years, that's a good length of time.
And he came out today wearing traditional attire, unlike Pope
(01:41):
Francis who did not, and made a very important statement
with that, and in fact, selecting the name is also
very important. So later on in the program we will
discuss that because it's big news and very significant. Also
coming up in the next hour, young Quist is at
(02:02):
large member of the Denver Public Schools Board of Education.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And how often is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It that you see an employee called for one of
his bosses to be punished. Well, that's exactly what's happening
in DPS, where the Superintendent of Schools, doctor Alex Morrero,
has called for the censure of John Youngquist for stuff
(02:31):
that well it just doesn't make sense, needless to say,
it's a giant head scratcher. And the news came out
on the heels of Morrero getting a contract extension for
two more years to twenty twenty eight, getting himself locked
in and protected from accountability even as Denver Public Schools
craters worse and worse.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We will talk in a radio exclusive with.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
John young Quist coming up the top of the three
o'clock hour and get an understanding from his position on
this controversy. But first, I don't know about you, but
I am a die.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Hard Star Wars fan.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I have been since I was six years old, sort
of like So, the show I'm going to talk a
little bit about is and Or, which is in season
two and it's a spin off of Rogue one movie
that came out, and I think twenty sixteen the best
Star Wars movie that Disney has produced without a doubt.
(03:35):
And he says, I've been in this fight since I
was six years old. Well that's me when it comes
to being a Star Wars fan. And and Or is
more adult, if you will. It delves into more intense topics,
more intellectual topics in some respects in terms of the messages.
It is not meant for kids. There's some things that
(03:57):
happen in this show where you're like, yeah, I would
not watch this show with a kid, even though it
is Star Wars. But the acting is absolutely superb and phenomenal.
The writing is top notch. It is the best quality
Star Wars that you'll find under Disney, at least among
(04:19):
the best quality Star Wars and produced by Tony Gilroy,
who's also behind Grogue One and is the director of
the show and Or.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And Or is in the midst of its second season,
and it has gotten some flock.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
From some on the right for being at least seeming
a little more political at times. There is an immigration
centered arc in the first three episodes of this season,
as there's an element of immigration worked into there. But
(04:56):
when I see a conservative look at this and just say,
I'm going to write this off. There's nothing I want
to do with and or I don't want to have
anything to do with the show because it seems political
and left winging. I'd urge you to rethink that, because
it isn't. And those on the left right now, they're claiming,
especially after the three episodes that dropped this week, there
(05:18):
are claiming that it is about Trump and it is
a little.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Bit about Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Except the show very important to note, began filming this
season back in twenty twenty two, I believe, and finished
filming in February of twenty twenty four, months and months
(05:51):
before Donald Trump was reelected as president.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I get it. It's Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You see certain things come up and you're gonna say,
oh my gosh, this is left leaning. I would surmise
and I would suggest that this is not the case.
But this week's arc got a lot of folks on
social media going, oh my gosh, this.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Is about Trump.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Wooh.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
If you're on the left.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Or if people are on the right, oh my gosh,
how could they They're attacking Trump?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
In Star Wars. It's not that, but it is because
of a speech.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And I'm not gonna bring out spoilers in these clips
that I'm going to comment on, but there is a
speech given in the show in episode nine of and
Or season two by mon Mathma, who originally appeared for
literally just like ninety seconds in Star Wars episode six,
Return of the Jedi, and she's played by obviously a
(06:55):
different actor, Genevieve o'reiley I believe is her name.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Phenomenal actor risked is an excellent job, and.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
She gives a speech to the Galactic Senate with the
Empire increasingly expanding its control and its oppression, and early
on in her powerful address, she talks about truth and
says words that I think they're so important I want
(07:23):
to share and put them into some context of the
moment that we are facing right now.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
The distance between what is said and what is known
to be true has become an abyss.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
An abyss, and what is known to be true just
a quick little snippet. But then she gets into something
very important, objective reality, the death of truth, and of.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
All the things at risk, the loss of an objective
reality is perhaps the most dangerous of truth is the
ultimate victory of evil.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
When truth leaves us, when we let it slip away,
when it is ripped from our hands, we become monsters,
screams the line, and you can see why some on
the left in the Twitter verse would say, oh my gosh,
this is about Trump and we love it. Yay, preach, preach,
(08:36):
Except here's the thing. What we are hearing in these
words is an exploration of objective reality and truth, losing
objective reality, losing truth.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Quite frankly, these are timeless and classic.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Ideas that are highlighted in fact by the creator of
this show, Tony Gilroy, who said, the real sorry truth
about this question we get it a lot, is that
peace and prosperity and calm are the rarities.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Those are rarities throughout the last six thousand years of
recorded history. Quite frankly, that is true.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
And the United States of America is a counterpoint to that,
where we have consistently improved and better the globe has,
but we still all have major problems, strife, violence, chaos,
all sorts of things. But one thing about the United
States of America is that we are about freedom and liberty,
(09:44):
at least fundamentally to our core.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And go against that arc of history.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But still there are issues to be addressed in Gilroy
goes on to say, you could drop this show at
any point in the last six thousand years and it
would make sense to some people about what's happening to them.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yes, because of tyranny.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
The rise of tyranny, the rise of oppression, government.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
That grows beyond its bounds. You go all the.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Way through history, Tony Gilroy said, and power is the
control of truth.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So I think with.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Mon mathmas speech, some of which we're here and now
we were looking to be timeless and classic, and that
is true. The words that Mathma says about the death
of truth is the ultimate victory of evil. And when
truth leaves us, when we let it slip away, when
it is ripped from our hands, we become vulnerable to
(10:47):
the appetite of whatever monstros screams The loudest is part
and parcel of the story of history, and it is
a warning sign about the size scope power and inflame
tuents of government.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Deeply wise words.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Truth is an essential idea throughout religious faith. Christianity, for example,
the Dujaio Christian ethic. To a society that needs to
have something tangible that we can connect with. And to
the extent that this offers a modern critique, it spans
(11:28):
across the political spectrum on a great.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Many things and should guide us.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
These words should guide us today, left or right, and
we can surely find applications in.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Today's world for her words. And I think we should
listen to that message.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I look at this from a couple of different
vantage points. One is this legislative session that we have
just seen that just finished not fast enough yesterday the
day before. House Bill twenty five dashed thirteen twelve past
(12:09):
originally intended to inject ideology into Colorado's custody cases. They
remove those provisions that would have said that if you
misgender your child or you dead name your child, that
that will be considered coercive control and result in you
(12:31):
possibly losing your child, which is something already happening in
terms of custody, already happening right now without such law
in place. Now, they stripped out that provision, but they
still have numerous components that were passed that could say
that if you do not accept that an eleven child
(12:55):
year old child has declared that instead of being a girl,
she is a boy, and you must just accept that regardless,
no matter how sudden, unexpected, how out of character, how
it doesn't make sense to you about your child. Or
if you're in the media and you're doing reporting on
a parent's story with their child and you dead name
(13:19):
or misgender them, you could be considered guilty of discrimination.
Never mind the objective reality that we have known that
children can't consent to massive changes for their lives, that
(13:40):
children are not fully developed, and frankly the traditional notions
of men and women. But we are talking about kids
here in this case, not adults. But even then, if
it's adults, and I believe in adults should be once
you're eighteen, you should be able to do what you want.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You want to do the transition, go for it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
But we still should not have governments saying we are
going to dictate what is or is not permitted. As
far as your speech, we are not going to We
should not be dictating compelling.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Speech that you do not believe in.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And fundamentally, at its core, what is thirteen twelve but
a rejection of truth and objective reality in favor of
skewing conclusions in one direction and suppressing dissent I was
very honored by State Senator Mark Baisley the other day
during the Senate floor debate on thirteen twelve, he read
(14:50):
a passage from my column, my most recent column on
this from a week or two ago, misgendering bill is intimidation,
not justice, and he said the following. Now.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Denver Gazette investigative columnist Jimmy Singenberger wrote a column recently
about House Bill twenty.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Five thirteen twelve.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
He says in his article, Let's be real, this isn't
about gender identity or discrimination. It's about whether government can
force citizens, businesses, or journalists to say things they don't believe.
So let's move into the bill itself and see where
(15:31):
that might occur when.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
We are talking children. And I have talked with psychologists
about this.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
A psychiatrist is quoted in my columns, for example, or
a transgender psychologist herself, doctor Erica Anderson out of California,
I believe, has also talked about this, that there are
many different underlying issues that may be in play for
children that have gender dysphoria and to force parents against
(15:58):
their will to just access what is being said to
them or those in the media or businesses or what
have you, as though it is somehow.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
The reality or.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
The truth to me is a part and parcel and
example of what mon Mathama was talking about in this
powerful speech from Star Wars and Or season two.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean, we can also look on the other foot.
She on the other foot.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
My column tomorrow, we're gonna talk with former Secretary of
State Wayne Williams in the next segment a little bit
about President Trump's call to free Tina Peters. Now my
column tomorrow, Tina Peters is no martyr, mister President walks
through the actual facts of the case, the issues involved,
(16:49):
what she was charged and convicted with. It was justice
that was served in the trial of Tina Peters. That
is the reality when you actually look closely at the facts.
Yet she has a podcast called The Truth Matters. I
(17:10):
don't know if she's still host it because she's behind bars,
but I know she's called into it many times. So
Tina Peters, the truth does not matter because her reports
that she put out purporting to claim that the election
was stolen and she proved it, were debunked, including by
the Republican district attorney who prosecuted the case against her
(17:34):
and put out a report in regards to this, to
one of her reports saying, this is ridiculous. Here's the
actual explanation of what went on, because there is a
real explanation. But when we are unmoored from the truth
and from objective reality, anything that somebody throws out there
(17:55):
and speus can just be accepted as truth can be
scepted is as right or what you should believe or adopt.
And if not, you are an unfit parent, You are
a rhino, you are a traitor, you are whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And that is about suppressing discourse.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Actually, when you try and just declare that anybody who
will look at Tina Peters and say she is guilty
is themselves guilty of something wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
When that's not true, that's not in accordance with the
actual truth of the matter. Boy, there's a lot to
be said here. We'll pick up the conversation moving forward.
I'm Jimmy Sangenberger. Watch and or season two. It's phenomenal
and may the Force be with you.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Keep it here.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, that is not blues like you often will get
when Jimmy Sangenberger's in the chair filling in.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
That is the theme song for Star Wars and ors.
Since we were.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Talking about this phenomenal show in the last segment, I
felt so inclined as to say, Zach, can we plug
this tune in?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Brother?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
It just makes me feel good Star Wars does. And
you know what also makes me feel good anytime I
could talk with our former Secretary of State Wayne Williams,
who joins me now again Jimmy Sangenberger filling in for
Ryan schuling today.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Wayne, my friend, how are you great?
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Jimmy. It's good to be with you and with your listeners,
and I appreciate the opportunity to chat today.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's good to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It was quite astonishing to me on Monday when, after
a judge ruled on a couple of things regarding an
appeal that Tina Peters had filed in federal court, saying
she was basically requesting a habeas corpus get her out
on bonds so she wouldn't have to be in.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Jail right now.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
President Trump after that tweeted out, well, I mean it
included a lot of things, but the main thing was,
in all caps, free TENA Peters. Now he directed the
Justice Department to secure the release of an innocent political
prisoner suffering Communist persecution by the radical left Democrats for
(20:20):
exposing their election crimes and misdeeds in twenty twenty. Now
as a reminder for folks, Jana Peters is the former
Masa County clerk who in twenty twenty one orchestrated an
election security breach where somebody got into the secure election
facility named Conan Hayes, a former pro serfer turned computer
(20:43):
hacker who used credentials that have been entertained for somebody else,
an IT contractor named Gerald Wood, and this happened around
a software update for the election system. He made copies
of the election hard drives with the cameras turn off,
and those got leaked online. Tina Peters convinced a number
(21:05):
of public employees from her own office to the Secretary
of State's office to basically, inadvertently, without knowing, help her
with this whole scheme, and that was the origin of
four felonies and three misdemeanors that she was convicted of
in court and then sentenced to up to nine years
behind bars. Is there anything you would add for my
(21:28):
quick little description, Wayne Williams to jog folks memories.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I think two other things are relevant to that. One
of them is that our election systems are under video surveillance.
Tina directed the video surveillance be turned off so she
could conceal the breach that she engaged in. The Other
part of it is I've heard her described in ways
that don't actually fit reality. You have someone who doesn't
(21:56):
really understand elections. She thought final results should be available
by seven oh five. What's set aside the military that
we allowed to vote up to have their ballots return
up to eight days later. So she wanted to disenfranchise
all of them. And then when she does get arrested,
she kicks the police officer. So there's some things going
(22:18):
on here, and so let me just respond to The
president's present is reliant on the information they are provided,
and if you do not get all of the facts,
you sometimes make mistakes. Probably the most famous of those,
about the same time frame into his presidency, John F.
(22:39):
Kennedy authorized a failed invasion of Cuba in the Bay
of Pigs because he didn't have all of the information,
and he made he didn't just make a bad statement,
he actually evaded a country and significant loss of life
as a result of that bad information. They had, So
it is not a US usual for a president to
(23:01):
be reliant. They don't know everything, so they have to
depend upon what they're told. It's obvious to me that
President Trump was told some false information or some incomplete
information and that triggered the statement. But on the scale
of mistakes a president has made, a misstatement or a
misdirection is very different than invading a foreign country. I'm
(23:25):
not justifying either, but the reality is that at that
level you do not have the individual knowledge of what
actually occurred. So let's go back. The actual prosecution is
by a Republican district attorney, by the way, a Republican
district attorney who is unanimously re elected in twenty twenty
(23:48):
four in both the primary and the general election. It
comes from an indictment by a grand jury. And just
so folks know, some of your listeners may not be
aware of Mesa County is less than thirteen percent of
Mesa County is Democrat in terms of active registered voters.
So you're talking a grand jury pool that is less
(24:10):
than thirteen percent Democrat, and a jury pool for the
actual trial that's less than thirteen percent Democrat. So when
you look at those actual numbers. It is not the
Democrats that convicted Tina. In fact, when she was on
the ballot in a Republican primary, she only got about
(24:34):
a third of the vote in her prime Republican primary
for Secretary of State in Mesa County. And so this
is not someone who is the hero of the Republican Party.
This is not someone who Mesa County Republicans believe should
be secretary of State. And this is someone who with
(24:55):
a Republican district attorney and a virtually you know what's
thirteen percent, Yeah, one out of eight, roughly one out
of seven are Democrats, and a jury pool that both
indicted and convicted her. And so when you look at
all of that, it is not a Democratic plot that
did this. Yes, it is indeed a Republican da unanimously
(25:19):
elected by the Republicans and Mesa unanimously re elected by
the people of Mesa County, and a jury pool that
has virtually no Democrats in it.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And so, and Wayne, I want to add this too,
that the three county commissioners, the county commissioners are all Republicans,
the other countywide officials are Republicans, and the three county
the commissioners at the time had also encouraged Rubinstein and
Dan Rubinstein, the Republican elected district attorney there, to pursue
this case and to prosecute this case. Something he pointed
(25:52):
out in a statement to the press this week, that's
not a small thing. And in fact, while she happened
to retweet President Trump and teut how he is standing
up for Tina Peters and responding to something she put
in about the FBI and how they should look in
to Tina Peters. Back in November of twenty twenty one,
(26:13):
during the investigation, Lauren Bolbert put out a statement after
having been briefed by DA Dan Rubinstein about this, basically
saying she had full confidence in Rubinstein and how he
was operating.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Now it's a little different.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
I guess, well, again, you've got a president who has
many important responsibilities, many things that he's engaged in, and
he's reliant upon the information he's given. Obvious to me
that he's not been given the full picture, yes, and
that I feel bad about that because when you are
advising the president, you do have a responsibility to present
(26:48):
all of the information so that he can make better decisions.
And whether it's the invasion of the Bay of Pigs
or a statement in this case. There are times when
presidents don't have all the information and make mistakes. That
doesn't mean, by the way, that everything that either president
did is a mistake. It means that they each made
(27:10):
a mistake because they're each human. Yeah, but when you
look at you know what actually happened. You do have
a series of actions. You know, when you use fraudulent
descriptions of who it is, when you turn off the cameras,
when you kick the police when they arrestue, these are
not the actions of someone who has acted properly. And
(27:35):
so that is the way that you look at and
you know when you talk about you know who made
the decisions. Ultimately, again, you go back to Mesa county
or predominantly in all their elected officials pretty much or Republican,
I don't remember any of that aren't other than the
(27:56):
state at the state level, but it's it's county. And
let me back up and do one other important thing. Yet,
if you believe the election was conducted, If Tina Peters
believed the election she conducted in which President Trump got
(28:17):
sixty three percent of the vote, and she believes that's wrong.
There's a lot better way than looking at the machines.
You've got the actual paper exactly, and so you have
the paper ballots available. If you think there's an issue,
count the paper ballots. That's what Schroeder did in Elbert
(28:37):
County showed that the machine count was accurate. It's what
we did in Mesa County. Subsequently, in the twenty twenty
one election, we did a complete hand count that because
Colorado has paper ballots, something that I pushed through and
changed the requirements for. Because we have paper ballots, you
can always do that verification yourself. And in fact, Mason
(29:01):
County has made it really easy since that time for
people to go in and look at it. Under their
current clerk, Bobby Gross, they have made it available that information,
those ballots are available for review. And so that's the
best way, right because we actually.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Have hut Wayne.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Let me jump in there, Wyn Williams, former Colorado Secretary
of State, because we're running up against time. I was
talking about truth before, and there is the long standing
notion of the correspondence theory of truth, which is that
truth is a statement that corresponds with reality. If you
want to check whether the truth of a statement regarding
elections and an outcome is accurate or not.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Go to the paper ballots, crosscheck.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Do that and you'll find out exactly as you pointed
out at Mason County, there wasn't a discrepancy.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
There wasn't a problem that was noticed.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
And I should just note for folks who don't know that,
when Tina Peters in twenty twenty one for that fall
election coordinated local elections in twenty twenty one, when she
was elected, what was removed as the county or designated
an election official for the county. She was still the clerk,
(30:17):
but she wasn't allowed to run the elections. You former
Secretary of State Williams and former county clerk and recorder
Sheila Reiner.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
The backstory of how.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It happened is one thing, but you guys basically paired
up and worked together to oversee that election and conducted
the recaul you were talking about.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
That's correct. I was appointed by the Republican Commissioners to
do that because we wanted to make sure that the
election did follow the rules, and again they wanted to
make it crystal clear what happened. That's why we actually
did a handcount afterwards to demonstrate that yes, the results were.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Accurate, and Cody Davis, County clerk excuse me, a county
commissioner in mas had not long after twenty twenty, gone
to Tina Peters and said, hey, clerk, I think we
should do a recount, a handcount of the results and
see if they check her out or not.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And she refused, Let's just keep that in perspective for
a moment.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Awayne Williams, I got like thirty seconds, brother, any final
word from.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
You, just you know, I appreciate the chance to be there. Folks,
go back, you actually look at the reality of who
actually was in charge of the prosecution, who what jury
pool was drawn from. I am not saying there aren't
horrendous bills passed in this last legislator session and others.
(31:40):
I testified against some of them, but this is not
one of those cases. This is a case where someone
acted inappropriately, deceptively broke the law and was.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Convicted and sentenced.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Indeed, Wayne Williams, former Secretary of State, always great to
talk with you, sir, Thanks so much for joining us today.
Thanks you may thank you once again. Former Secretary of
State of Colorado, Wayne Williams. I'm Jimmy Singenberger filling in
for Ryan Schuling as we continue right here on six
thirty kW along with Bobby Rush, who is ninety one
(32:18):
years old, bluesman, extraordinayre, a true living legend, harmonica player,
phenomenal harmonica player, and they are doing their thing at
the Paramount Theater tomorrow and the Young Fashioned Ways Tour.
I have a podcast called Blues Business. iHeart and all
(32:38):
the podcast apps check it out. Because I interviewed Kenny
Wayne Shepard in a great conversation. I've been a fan
for half my life at least, and I love his music.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I've interviewed him multiple times before and we just had
a phenomenal conversation. And I also got a story in
the Denver Gazette about this on the Arts an entertainment
page in the music section at Denver Gazette dot com.
And I haven't said my name. I'm Jimmy Sangenberger filling
in for Ryan Schuling. This is a real tight segment.
We went long with Wayne Williams, former Colorado Secretary of State.
(33:15):
In the last segment coming up on the other side,
Denver Public schools just when you think they couldn't get
any lower. The superintendent of schools, doctor Alex Morrero, who
just outrageously got his contract extended and more protections for
his job, well now he is calling for the censure
(33:36):
of one of the board members who are his bosses.
That would be John Youngquist. We've got a Colorado Radio
exclusive with John young Quist coming up on the other side.
He's at large director for the Denver Public Schools Board
of Education. Will break it all down with him on
the other side. So much to talk about, so much
to do in so little time. Jimmy Sangenburger here Denvers
(34:01):
Talk Station six point thirty k how In for Ryan
Schuling on Ryan Schuling Live
Jimmy Sangenberger filling in for Ryan Schuling today, who I
know is going to be enjoying watching his tigers. Good
to be with you on a day that, gosh, has
turned into a heck of a news day, without question,
without a doubt, a massive news day on the world stage,
(00:24):
because there is a new pope, a American, an American,
Pope Leo the fourteenth, making history in a way that
I and I'm Catholic, I never anticipated that something like
(00:46):
this would happen, and yet here we are with the
selection an election by the College of Cardinals of the
first American pontiff. Later on in the program we will
(01:06):
dive in more to this subject and some of the
questions swirling about.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Pope Leo the fourteenth.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Born in Chicago, he is all of sixty nine years old,
which is Pope's goo is quite young, especially if he
serves twenty twenty five years, that's a good length of time.
And he came out today wearing traditional attire, unlike Pope
(01:41):
Francis who did not, and made a very important statement
with that, and in fact, selecting the name is also
very important. So later on in the program we will
discuss that because it's big news and very significant. Also
coming up in the next hour, young Quist is at
(02:02):
large member of the Denver Public Schools Board of Education.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And how often is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It that you see an employee called for one of
his bosses to be punished. Well, that's exactly what's happening
in DPS, where the Superintendent of Schools, doctor Alex Morrero,
has called for the censure of John Youngquist for stuff
(02:31):
that well it just doesn't make sense, needless to say,
it's a giant head scratcher. And the news came out
on the heels of Morrero getting a contract extension for
two more years to twenty twenty eight, getting himself locked
in and protected from accountability even as Denver Public Schools
craters worse and worse.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We will talk in a radio exclusive with.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
John young Quist coming up the top of the three
o'clock hour and get an understanding from his position on
this controversy. But first, I don't know about you, but
I am a die.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Hard Star Wars fan.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I have been since I was six years old, sort
of like So, the show I'm going to talk a
little bit about is and Or, which is in season
two and it's a spin off of Rogue one movie
that came out, and I think twenty sixteen the best
Star Wars movie that Disney has produced without a doubt.
(03:35):
And he says, I've been in this fight since I
was six years old. Well that's me when it comes
to being a Star Wars fan. And and Or is
more adult, if you will. It delves into more intense topics,
more intellectual topics in some respects in terms of the messages.
It is not meant for kids. There's some things that
(03:57):
happen in this show where you're like, yeah, I would
not watch this show with a kid, even though it
is Star Wars. But the acting is absolutely superb and phenomenal.
The writing is top notch. It is the best quality
Star Wars that you'll find under Disney, at least among
(04:19):
the best quality Star Wars and produced by Tony Gilroy,
who's also behind Grogue One and is the director of
the show and Or.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And Or is in the midst of its second season,
and it has gotten some flock.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
From some on the right for being at least seeming
a little more political at times. There is an immigration
centered arc in the first three episodes of this season,
as there's an element of immigration worked into there. But
(04:56):
when I see a conservative look at this and just say,
I'm going to write this off. There's nothing I want
to do with and or I don't want to have
anything to do with the show because it seems political
and left winging. I'd urge you to rethink that, because
it isn't. And those on the left right now, they're claiming,
especially after the three episodes that dropped this week, there
(05:18):
are claiming that it is about Trump and it is
a little.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Bit about Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Except the show very important to note, began filming this
season back in twenty twenty two, I believe, and finished
filming in February of twenty twenty four, months and months
(05:51):
before Donald Trump was reelected as president.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I get it. It's Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You see certain things come up and you're gonna say,
oh my gosh, this is left leaning. I would surmise
and I would suggest that this is not the case.
But this week's arc got a lot of folks on
social media going, oh my gosh, this.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Is about Trump.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Wooh.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
If you're on the left.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Or if people are on the right, oh my gosh,
how could they They're attacking Trump?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
In Star Wars. It's not that, but it is because
of a speech.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And I'm not gonna bring out spoilers in these clips
that I'm going to comment on, but there is a
speech given in the show in episode nine of and
Or season two by mon Mathma, who originally appeared for
literally just like ninety seconds in Star Wars episode six,
Return of the Jedi, and she's played by obviously a
(06:55):
different actor, Genevieve o'reiley I believe is her name.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Phenomenal actor risked is an excellent job, and.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
She gives a speech to the Galactic Senate with the
Empire increasingly expanding its control and its oppression, and early
on in her powerful address, she talks about truth and
says words that I think they're so important I want
(07:23):
to share and put them into some context of the
moment that we are facing right now.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
The distance between what is said and what is known
to be true has become an abyss.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
An abyss, and what is known to be true just
a quick little snippet. But then she gets into something
very important, objective reality, the death of truth, and of.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
All the things at risk, the loss of an objective
reality is perhaps the most dangerous of truth is the
ultimate victory of evil.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
When truth leaves us, when we let it slip away,
when it is ripped from our hands, we become monsters,
screams the line, and you can see why some on
the left in the Twitter verse would say, oh my gosh,
this is about Trump and we love it. Yay, preach, preach,
(08:36):
Except here's the thing. What we are hearing in these
words is an exploration of objective reality and truth, losing
objective reality, losing truth.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Quite frankly, these are timeless and classic.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Ideas that are highlighted in fact by the creator of
this show, Tony Gilroy, who said, the real sorry truth
about this question we get it a lot, is that
peace and prosperity and calm are the rarities.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Those are rarities throughout the last six thousand years of
recorded history. Quite frankly, that is true.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
And the United States of America is a counterpoint to that,
where we have consistently improved and better the globe has,
but we still all have major problems, strife, violence, chaos,
all sorts of things. But one thing about the United
States of America is that we are about freedom and liberty,
(09:44):
at least fundamentally to our core.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And go against that arc of history.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But still there are issues to be addressed in Gilroy
goes on to say, you could drop this show at
any point in the last six thousand years and it
would make sense to some people about what's happening to them.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yes, because of tyranny.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
The rise of tyranny, the rise of oppression, government.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
That grows beyond its bounds. You go all the.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Way through history, Tony Gilroy said, and power is the
control of truth.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So I think with.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Mon mathmas speech, some of which we're here and now
we were looking to be timeless and classic, and that
is true. The words that Mathma says about the death
of truth is the ultimate victory of evil. And when
truth leaves us, when we let it slip away, when
it is ripped from our hands, we become vulnerable to
(10:47):
the appetite of whatever monstros screams The loudest is part
and parcel of the story of history, and it is
a warning sign about the size scope power and inflame
tuents of government.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Deeply wise words.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Truth is an essential idea throughout religious faith. Christianity, for example,
the Dujaio Christian ethic. To a society that needs to
have something tangible that we can connect with. And to
the extent that this offers a modern critique, it spans
(11:28):
across the political spectrum on a great.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Many things and should guide us.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
These words should guide us today, left or right, and
we can surely find applications in.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Today's world for her words. And I think we should
listen to that message.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I look at this from a couple of different
vantage points. One is this legislative session that we have
just seen that just finished not fast enough yesterday the
day before. House Bill twenty five dashed thirteen twelve past
(12:09):
originally intended to inject ideology into Colorado's custody cases. They
remove those provisions that would have said that if you
misgender your child or you dead name your child, that
that will be considered coercive control and result in you
(12:31):
possibly losing your child, which is something already happening in
terms of custody, already happening right now without such law
in place. Now, they stripped out that provision, but they
still have numerous components that were passed that could say
that if you do not accept that an eleven child
(12:55):
year old child has declared that instead of being a girl,
she is a boy, and you must just accept that regardless,
no matter how sudden, unexpected, how out of character, how
it doesn't make sense to you about your child. Or
if you're in the media and you're doing reporting on
a parent's story with their child and you dead name
(13:19):
or misgender them, you could be considered guilty of discrimination.
Never mind the objective reality that we have known that
children can't consent to massive changes for their lives, that
(13:40):
children are not fully developed, and frankly the traditional notions
of men and women. But we are talking about kids
here in this case, not adults. But even then, if
it's adults, and I believe in adults should be once
you're eighteen, you should be able to do what you want.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You want to do the transition, go for it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
But we still should not have governments saying we are
going to dictate what is or is not permitted. As
far as your speech, we are not going to We
should not be dictating compelling.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Speech that you do not believe in.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And fundamentally, at its core, what is thirteen twelve but
a rejection of truth and objective reality in favor of
skewing conclusions in one direction and suppressing dissent I was
very honored by State Senator Mark Baisley the other day
during the Senate floor debate on thirteen twelve, he read
(14:50):
a passage from my column, my most recent column on
this from a week or two ago, misgendering bill is intimidation,
not justice, and he said the following. Now.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Denver Gazette investigative columnist Jimmy Singenberger wrote a column recently
about House Bill twenty.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Five thirteen twelve.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
He says in his article, Let's be real, this isn't
about gender identity or discrimination. It's about whether government can
force citizens, businesses, or journalists to say things they don't believe.
So let's move into the bill itself and see where
(15:31):
that might occur when.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
We are talking children. And I have talked with psychologists
about this.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
A psychiatrist is quoted in my columns, for example, or
a transgender psychologist herself, doctor Erica Anderson out of California,
I believe, has also talked about this, that there are
many different underlying issues that may be in play for
children that have gender dysphoria and to force parents against
(15:58):
their will to just access what is being said to
them or those in the media or businesses or what
have you, as though it is somehow.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
The reality or.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
The truth to me is a part and parcel and
example of what mon Mathama was talking about in this
powerful speech from Star Wars and Or season two.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean, we can also look on the other foot.
She on the other foot.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
My column tomorrow, we're gonna talk with former Secretary of
State Wayne Williams in the next segment a little bit
about President Trump's call to free Tina Peters. Now my
column tomorrow, Tina Peters is no martyr, mister President walks
through the actual facts of the case, the issues involved,
(16:49):
what she was charged and convicted with. It was justice
that was served in the trial of Tina Peters. That
is the reality when you actually look closely at the facts.
Yet she has a podcast called The Truth Matters. I
(17:10):
don't know if she's still host it because she's behind bars,
but I know she's called into it many times. So
Tina Peters, the truth does not matter because her reports
that she put out purporting to claim that the election
was stolen and she proved it, were debunked, including by
the Republican district attorney who prosecuted the case against her
(17:34):
and put out a report in regards to this, to
one of her reports saying, this is ridiculous. Here's the
actual explanation of what went on, because there is a
real explanation. But when we are unmoored from the truth
and from objective reality, anything that somebody throws out there
(17:55):
and speus can just be accepted as truth can be
scepted is as right or what you should believe or adopt.
And if not, you are an unfit parent, You are
a rhino, you are a traitor, you are whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And that is about suppressing discourse.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Actually, when you try and just declare that anybody who
will look at Tina Peters and say she is guilty
is themselves guilty of something wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
When that's not true, that's not in accordance with the
actual truth of the matter. Boy, there's a lot to
be said here. We'll pick up the conversation moving forward.
I'm Jimmy Sangenberger. Watch and or season two. It's phenomenal
and may the Force be with you.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Keep it here.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Well, that is not blues like you often will get
when Jimmy Sangenberger's in the chair filling in.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
That is the theme song for Star Wars and ors.
Since we were.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Talking about this phenomenal show in the last segment, I
felt so inclined as to say, Zach, can we plug
this tune in?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Brother?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
It just makes me feel good Star Wars does. And
you know what also makes me feel good anytime I
could talk with our former Secretary of State Wayne Williams,
who joins me now again Jimmy Sangenberger filling in for
Ryan schuling today.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Wayne, my friend, how are you great?
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Jimmy. It's good to be with you and with your listeners,
and I appreciate the opportunity to chat today.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's good to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It was quite astonishing to me on Monday when, after
a judge ruled on a couple of things regarding an
appeal that Tina Peters had filed in federal court, saying
she was basically requesting a habeas corpus get her out
on bonds so she wouldn't have to be in.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Jail right now.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
President Trump after that tweeted out, well, I mean it
included a lot of things, but the main thing was,
in all caps, free TENA Peters. Now he directed the
Justice Department to secure the release of an innocent political
prisoner suffering Communist persecution by the radical left Democrats for
(20:20):
exposing their election crimes and misdeeds in twenty twenty. Now
as a reminder for folks, Jana Peters is the former
Masa County clerk who in twenty twenty one orchestrated an
election security breach where somebody got into the secure election
facility named Conan Hayes, a former pro serfer turned computer
(20:43):
hacker who used credentials that have been entertained for somebody else,
an IT contractor named Gerald Wood, and this happened around
a software update for the election system. He made copies
of the election hard drives with the cameras turn off,
and those got leaked online. Tina Peters convinced a number
(21:05):
of public employees from her own office to the Secretary
of State's office to basically, inadvertently, without knowing, help her
with this whole scheme, and that was the origin of
four felonies and three misdemeanors that she was convicted of
in court and then sentenced to up to nine years
behind bars. Is there anything you would add for my
(21:28):
quick little description, Wayne Williams to jog folks memories.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I think two other things are relevant to that. One
of them is that our election systems are under video surveillance.
Tina directed the video surveillance be turned off so she
could conceal the breach that she engaged in. The Other
part of it is I've heard her described in ways
that don't actually fit reality. You have someone who doesn't
(21:56):
really understand elections. She thought final results should be available
by seven oh five. What's set aside the military that
we allowed to vote up to have their ballots return
up to eight days later. So she wanted to disenfranchise
all of them. And then when she does get arrested,
she kicks the police officer. So there's some things going
(22:18):
on here, and so let me just respond to The
president's present is reliant on the information they are provided,
and if you do not get all of the facts,
you sometimes make mistakes. Probably the most famous of those,
about the same time frame into his presidency, John F.
(22:39):
Kennedy authorized a failed invasion of Cuba in the Bay
of Pigs because he didn't have all of the information,
and he made he didn't just make a bad statement,
he actually evaded a country and significant loss of life
as a result of that bad information. They had, So
it is not a US usual for a president to
(23:01):
be reliant. They don't know everything, so they have to
depend upon what they're told. It's obvious to me that
President Trump was told some false information or some incomplete
information and that triggered the statement. But on the scale
of mistakes a president has made, a misstatement or a
misdirection is very different than invading a foreign country. I'm
(23:25):
not justifying either, but the reality is that at that
level you do not have the individual knowledge of what
actually occurred. So let's go back. The actual prosecution is
by a Republican district attorney, by the way, a Republican
district attorney who is unanimously re elected in twenty twenty
(23:48):
four in both the primary and the general election. It
comes from an indictment by a grand jury. And just
so folks know, some of your listeners may not be
aware of Mesa County is less than thirteen percent of
Mesa County is Democrat in terms of active registered voters.
So you're talking a grand jury pool that is less
(24:10):
than thirteen percent Democrat, and a jury pool for the
actual trial that's less than thirteen percent Democrat. So when
you look at those actual numbers. It is not the
Democrats that convicted Tina. In fact, when she was on
the ballot in a Republican primary, she only got about
(24:34):
a third of the vote in her prime Republican primary
for Secretary of State in Mesa County. And so this
is not someone who is the hero of the Republican Party.
This is not someone who Mesa County Republicans believe should
be secretary of State. And this is someone who with
(24:55):
a Republican district attorney and a virtually you know what's
thirteen percent, Yeah, one out of eight, roughly one out
of seven are Democrats, and a jury pool that both
indicted and convicted her. And so when you look at
all of that, it is not a Democratic plot that
did this. Yes, it is indeed a Republican da unanimously
(25:19):
elected by the Republicans and Mesa unanimously re elected by
the people of Mesa County, and a jury pool that
has virtually no Democrats in it.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And so, and Wayne, I want to add this too,
that the three county commissioners, the county commissioners are all Republicans,
the other countywide officials are Republicans, and the three county
the commissioners at the time had also encouraged Rubinstein and
Dan Rubinstein, the Republican elected district attorney there, to pursue
this case and to prosecute this case. Something he pointed
(25:52):
out in a statement to the press this week, that's
not a small thing. And in fact, while she happened
to retweet President Trump and teut how he is standing
up for Tina Peters and responding to something she put
in about the FBI and how they should look in
to Tina Peters. Back in November of twenty twenty one,
(26:13):
during the investigation, Lauren Bolbert put out a statement after
having been briefed by DA Dan Rubinstein about this, basically
saying she had full confidence in Rubinstein and how he
was operating.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Now it's a little different.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
I guess, well, again, you've got a president who has
many important responsibilities, many things that he's engaged in, and
he's reliant upon the information he's given. Obvious to me
that he's not been given the full picture, yes, and
that I feel bad about that because when you are
advising the president, you do have a responsibility to present
(26:48):
all of the information so that he can make better decisions.
And whether it's the invasion of the Bay of Pigs
or a statement in this case. There are times when
presidents don't have all the information and make mistakes. That
doesn't mean, by the way, that everything that either president
did is a mistake. It means that they each made
(27:10):
a mistake because they're each human. Yeah, but when you
look at you know what actually happened. You do have
a series of actions. You know, when you use fraudulent
descriptions of who it is, when you turn off the cameras,
when you kick the police when they arrestue, these are
not the actions of someone who has acted properly. And
(27:35):
so that is the way that you look at and
you know when you talk about you know who made
the decisions. Ultimately, again, you go back to Mesa county
or predominantly in all their elected officials pretty much or Republican,
I don't remember any of that aren't other than the
(27:56):
state at the state level, but it's it's county. And
let me back up and do one other important thing. Yet,
if you believe the election was conducted, If Tina Peters
believed the election she conducted in which President Trump got
(28:17):
sixty three percent of the vote, and she believes that's wrong.
There's a lot better way than looking at the machines.
You've got the actual paper exactly, and so you have
the paper ballots available. If you think there's an issue,
count the paper ballots. That's what Schroeder did in Elbert
(28:37):
County showed that the machine count was accurate. It's what
we did in Mesa County. Subsequently, in the twenty twenty
one election, we did a complete hand count that because
Colorado has paper ballots, something that I pushed through and
changed the requirements for. Because we have paper ballots, you
can always do that verification yourself. And in fact, Mason
(29:01):
County has made it really easy since that time for
people to go in and look at it. Under their
current clerk, Bobby Gross, they have made it available that information,
those ballots are available for review. And so that's the
best way, right because we actually.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Have hut Wayne.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Let me jump in there, Wyn Williams, former Colorado Secretary
of State, because we're running up against time. I was
talking about truth before, and there is the long standing
notion of the correspondence theory of truth, which is that
truth is a statement that corresponds with reality. If you
want to check whether the truth of a statement regarding
elections and an outcome is accurate or not.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Go to the paper ballots, crosscheck.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Do that and you'll find out exactly as you pointed
out at Mason County, there wasn't a discrepancy.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
There wasn't a problem that was noticed.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
And I should just note for folks who don't know that,
when Tina Peters in twenty twenty one for that fall
election coordinated local elections in twenty twenty one, when she
was elected, what was removed as the county or designated
an election official for the county. She was still the clerk,
(30:17):
but she wasn't allowed to run the elections. You former
Secretary of State Williams and former county clerk and recorder
Sheila Reiner.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
The backstory of how.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It happened is one thing, but you guys basically paired
up and worked together to oversee that election and conducted
the recaul you were talking about.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
That's correct. I was appointed by the Republican Commissioners to
do that because we wanted to make sure that the
election did follow the rules, and again they wanted to
make it crystal clear what happened. That's why we actually
did a handcount afterwards to demonstrate that yes, the results were.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Accurate, and Cody Davis, County clerk excuse me, a county
commissioner in mas had not long after twenty twenty, gone
to Tina Peters and said, hey, clerk, I think we
should do a recount, a handcount of the results and
see if they check her out or not.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And she refused, Let's just keep that in perspective for
a moment.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Awayne Williams, I got like thirty seconds, brother, any final
word from.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
You, just you know, I appreciate the chance to be there. Folks,
go back, you actually look at the reality of who
actually was in charge of the prosecution, who what jury
pool was drawn from. I am not saying there aren't
horrendous bills passed in this last legislator session and others.
(31:40):
I testified against some of them, but this is not
one of those cases. This is a case where someone
acted inappropriately, deceptively broke the law and was.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Convicted and sentenced.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Indeed, Wayne Williams, former Secretary of State, always great to
talk with you, sir, Thanks so much for joining us today.
Thanks you may thank you once again. Former Secretary of
State of Colorado, Wayne Williams. I'm Jimmy Singenberger filling in
for Ryan Schuling as we continue right here on six
thirty kW along with Bobby Rush, who is ninety one
(32:18):
years old, bluesman, extraordinayre, a true living legend, harmonica player,
phenomenal harmonica player, and they are doing their thing at
the Paramount Theater tomorrow and the Young Fashioned Ways Tour.
I have a podcast called Blues Business. iHeart and all
(32:38):
the podcast apps check it out. Because I interviewed Kenny
Wayne Shepard in a great conversation. I've been a fan
for half my life at least, and I love his music.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I've interviewed him multiple times before and we just had
a phenomenal conversation. And I also got a story in
the Denver Gazette about this on the Arts an entertainment
page in the music section at Denver Gazette dot com.
And I haven't said my name. I'm Jimmy Sangenberger filling
in for Ryan Schuling. This is a real tight segment.
We went long with Wayne Williams, former Colorado Secretary of State.
(33:15):
In the last segment coming up on the other side,
Denver Public schools just when you think they couldn't get
any lower. The superintendent of schools, doctor Alex Morrero, who
just outrageously got his contract extended and more protections for
his job, well now he is calling for the censure
(33:36):
of one of the board members who are his bosses.
That would be John Youngquist. We've got a Colorado Radio
exclusive with John young Quist coming up on the other side.
He's at large director for the Denver Public Schools Board
of Education. Will break it all down with him on
the other side. So much to talk about, so much
to do in so little time. Jimmy Sangenburger here Denvers
(34:01):
Talk Station six point thirty k how In for Ryan
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