July 17, 2025 • 34 mins
Stephen L. Miller, host of the Versus media podcast, joins Ryan to discuss his disdain for the 'unwatchable' Abby Phillip on CNN and why he refuses to 'take the Epstein bait.' Also, the Obamas reunite on Michelle's podcast and it feels so good and Governor Jared Polis posts an online poll determine whether his 'Bridge to Nowhere' will be built to celebrate Colorado's sesquicentennial.
Steffan joins Ryan to discuss the current case against Dr. James Craig, a Colorado dentist accused of poisoning his wife. Steffan has a very personal connection to case.
Steffan joins Ryan to discuss the current case against Dr. James Craig, a Colorado dentist accused of poisoning his wife. Steffan has a very personal connection to case.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So what does it signify The Republicans ahead of the
midterms believe that that it's going to be so necessary
to get an upper hand that they have to actually
redraw an entire states congressional maps in order to get five.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hole scenes out of it.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Oh, probably the same thing that it signifies when they
did in Illinois and got a fourteen three delegation for
D's Maryland seven to one, Massachusetts nine to zero. We
know what happened here in New York California, even though
they have a commission.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
We all know what goes on there in all these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Mid cycles specifically, are all of those cases in mid cycles?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
All of these cases are where Democrats use the power
but they have to give them minute.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But just to be clear, because I'm I didn't do
the research that you did in the break here, is
it that they're changing it after the actual census process
where you're supposed to create a you're supposed to go
through the congressional redistricting process.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Does it matter?
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Yeah, I think that's the hotel.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It is okay for Democrats in that I didn't do
the reading, I didn't do the home work.
Speaker 7 (01:00):
But allow me to opine, says Abby Phillips CNN moderating
this panel. The only shining star on it Scott Jennings
on a regular basis. The only reason the show gets
any ratings whatsoever is because of Scott Jennings. This is
an intellectual mismatch. It's kind of cringe worthy to watch.
He's exactly right. Go look at a map, a congressional
(01:22):
map of Illinois, and tell me that you've ever seen
a jigsaw puzzle. Look that messed up. It is ridiculous.
New York has done the same, California has done the same,
Maryland's manipulated their map. Massachusetts make sure not a single
Republican representative is elected to Congress on their map. These
are all stone cold examples. But Abby Philip, what have
(01:44):
you believed? Oh, it's in a midterm election year, and like, well,
what's She completely loses the plot there, even though Scott
Jennings provides very level headed contexts. But we're not done.
If you thought that was bad, let's talk about eggs.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
People are suffering.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
You know how I know this because I heard all
about that from you last year, and I would to beat.
Speaker 8 (02:01):
You, and you kept talking about how the price of
eggs is really high.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
Well, guess what, it's much higher now than.
Speaker 7 (02:06):
We were literally lying about the.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Before. Accuse her of lying.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I literally just went over this.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
She is correct that.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Year over year Donald Trump book office, what happened to
the eggs?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
Oh my god? Do you not understand that the difference.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Was the president last year this time.
Speaker 6 (02:28):
Let me just so we can move on.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Because.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
This conversation I have a serious.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Derailing the congressation.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Pardon me, she's not telling me, pardon me, but you're
derailing the conversation. Okay, I think people have the ability
to understand the difference between the price of eggs today
and the price of eggs a year ago today versus
what you would prefer to talk about, which is the
price of eggs when Donald Trump was inaugurated. You're just
talking about two You're talking about two different time horizons. Okay,
(02:59):
let's just leave it at the leave it at that.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
No, no, no, what Scott Jennings says is exactly right.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Year over year. Who cares for half of that time span.
Speaker 7 (03:09):
Joe Biden was the president, with his restrictive policies in
place that drove up inflation, the cost of transporting goods,
the cost of energy, Trump is sworn in and it
takes a while for his policies.
Speaker 6 (03:24):
To take a fact.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
But since that time, the price of eggs, Scott Jennings
is correct, has come down. So why would you blame
Donald Trump for the six months that preceded him where
inflation was still out of control? Why does he have
to absorb what he inherited from Joe Biden? Why is
that the timeline? Abby Phillip? And she joins in in
the chorus here not as a moderator, not as a moderator,
(03:49):
but as an agitator and joining us. Now he's had
it with Abby Phillip. That's part of the reason why
I had him on, because we I think are an
agreement on this topic.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Steven L.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Miller, he has read Steez on X you and listen
to his Versus Media podcast on his sub stack.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
Steven, welcome to it.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know, Abby Phillip just announced that she wrote a
book about Jesse Jackson, So if you want to know
how down the line she is, I'm wondering if these
sexual harassment claims are going to make it in that book.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
I would bet no on that one, but just for
our listeners benefit, and I'm sorry to torture you with it.
The two clips you just heard, how would you break
those down, and how this panel proceeds, how this show operates,
How Abby Phillip tries to run her ballgame unwatchable.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's probably the first one that comes to mind.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
I don't know who does, I don't know who.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
CNN thinks, you know, there's a foxtail and sits down
for a fun evening of watching seven people scream at
one person. And I guess you know, Abby Phillip was
brought into Seeing in part time to kind of be
the adult in the room and she kind of does
that passive InterVoice at Scott Jennings, and I do think,
(04:56):
you know, Jennings kind of has launched his career from that.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
He's he does this funny, this gym.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Thing where he breaks the fourth wall, and those are
the clips that go viral, and CNN knows this and
so that's why they kind of keep them on there.
And he does this act, and I do think he
upstages her own show a bit, and I think that
she shows resentment to that beyond just raking political bias.
There was a Cliptis from two Nights Ago where Anna
Navarro who's who is of the view claimed that you know,
(05:25):
a male, white male guest on there who his opinion
was not valid because he is a white man, and
he confronted on this Appey Phillip has to step in,
and funny thing is he takes her side of this,
and really, you know, I've said that in the past,
and n basically saw what the view was doing, which
is just five haggard, unlistenable women shrieking at each other
(05:46):
like your hectoring sister in law. They decided we want
to take that format and put it on CNN where
nobody is watching us. If they get Scott Jennings an
hour show up, they really want to be cared about
ratings and that audience capture, which is what it is.
Scott Jennings would be the one with the show in
this time slot.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
Steven L.
Speaker 7 (06:05):
Miller our guest at red Stez on X So the
future of I don't know this show. It's kind of
like we watched the demise of Crossfire and John Stewart
kind of took a match to that when he appeared
and you talked about that his show follows puppets and
he was ripping on Tucker Carlson and Paul mcgala.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
I remember that. Well, it's like over twenty years ago now,
but this.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
Show seems to be the one reason anybody might tune
in to see it, and it is because of Scott Jennings.
You mentioned Abby Phillip does resent this. Do you think
this show is long for television? In that Abby Philip
understands that this is kind of a bargain she's got
to live with because Scott Jennings is the energy for
us that generates ratings.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I don't expect anybody at CNN to make any smart
decisions anytime soon. They don't have a cracker showing they
have the ability to do any of this. I mean,
firing Brian Seltzer was one, but then they just rehired
him back. And so I think, what's CNN and I've
had will have appeared on the show privately tell me
that they're done. They don't even want to go back
on this. So they've had a CNN offer them hotel
(07:06):
rooms to fly them, They've offered them pet sitting services
and they turned them down. They said, no, I don't
want to be a part of this because I get ambushed.
You invite me on to have a spirited discussion and
then I get ambushed by four people while the host
sits there and exit on when her job is to
be a moderator between you know, liberal guests conservative guests.
And I sit here and I watch what Bret Bayer does,
(07:27):
and I don't watch a turn of Fox News, but
he has kind of the Charles Crodhammer rule, which is,
I'm going to bring three of you on. You're going
to speak to each other in a civilized voice at
Crowdhammer kind of pioneer, and you get twenty minutes of
good debate and nobody's yelling at each other about how
racist the other one is. And it's funny how CNN
doesn't take, you know, the format of a network they
clearly hate but clearly works. They mop up the ratings
(07:52):
left and right, and like they said, I don't know
what CNN plan here as there was talking about reshuffling,
they were talking about changing things up, but again they're
ratings are you know, lower than sewer water, and they
still decide on putting this kind of content out there.
And the reason is because of the viral clips. They
think that you know, even negative eyeballs are driving this,
(08:13):
so hey, that's enough to kind of keep our sponsors.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Say, hey, look how many Look how many reposts? This gits?
Look how many lights to get in locial media. Not
the reason behind it, it's just that it happens.
Speaker 7 (08:24):
You can hear him talk more about it on the
Versus Media podcasts available on his substack. You can click
to that link from his x feed and that's at
red Steez ste Ze Stephen L. Miller our guests for
his regular visits and critiquing the media something I enjoy doing.
But I'm going to give some kudos here, at least
a faint praise. I'll damn him with it. Joe Scarborough
(08:46):
pushing back on Representative Jennie Raskin about something that you know,
Steven says, he refuses to take the Epstein bait just
the same way that the alternative cops in Beverly Hills
cops say they're not going to fall for the banana
and the tailpipe. Let's check out the banana and the pipe,
as Joe Scarborough asked rask and now, look, Joe Biden
was president for four years here, twenty one through twenty five.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
You had control of Congress.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
You could have summoned the Epstein files and publicized those
at any time.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
Why didn't you do it?
Speaker 9 (09:12):
Why didn't Democrats call far from twenty one to twenty five.
Speaker 10 (09:18):
So, I mean you have to go back and look
specifically at particular prosecutorial decisions and what was taking place
in terms of the other cases.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
So I don't know.
Speaker 10 (09:30):
We could try to reconstruct that record. But the point
is that Donald Trump is the one who has led
the crusade to.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Say that.
Speaker 10 (09:40):
Epstein, who was his very close friend, and there's all
kinds of pictures of them and so on, that Epstein
was at the center of this broad conspiracy. He's now
in a position to do exactly what he demanded, which
was to release all of the files.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
And so why is that not happening? That's the question I.
Speaker 10 (09:58):
Can't answer for Mirk Garland or any of you know,
anybody else in the Department of Justice.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
Pretty ham handed response there, Steve and not used to
being challenged by friendly media Jamie Raskin in this case.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
But I think if it was ever a.
Speaker 7 (10:12):
Time whore is appropriate to be cynical of all sides
in the Epstein files, that would be the case to
do it.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
What do you make of his response there?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I mean, there is a point there that this all
feels performative on the Democrats are going for the release.
This is this is one kind of giant, big role
being executed on Trump and then obviously the influencer of
the throwing out the Epstein binders and stuff, and the.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Democrats know it, and the media is giddy over this.
Speaker 11 (10:41):
And this is what I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I'm not going to take the date on any of
this is this feels like it's a self inflicted wound
a bit from Trump, who can campaign on parts of this,
but the fact that, you know, the influencers who followed
his every single word and move thinks that he needs them,
He's turned out, He's done after this.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
He doesn't need them any war. But this is really
the first.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Opening the media has had since Donald Trump was reelected.
He's he just came off probably the best month of
his entire presidency with the Iran strikes. We did have
inflations kind of cooling a bit, but you know, tear
damage isn't all haven't been dooming gloom as economists of predicted,
and he you know, he really is coming up his
best month and this is really the first opening since
(11:23):
he was re elected where the media sees something they
think that they have blood in the water here, and
so they're just coming it and chumping it. Like I said,
it's one big troll, betting executed. None of these people
actually care about Epstein's victims.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Which is kind of the point of all of this.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's just kind of being used as a bat to
hit each other over the head with whether it's the
media hitting Trump, the Democrats sitting Trump, or Trump hitting
you know, former fundits over and I find it all
very disinteresting.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
Then we'll move on. Steven L. Miller, our guest.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
I think this one it's just one big troll. The
media knows what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
It's like when they.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Trolled Trump with his walk down the ramp when he
questioned Hillary's health. It's no difference. And you can tell
by how over excited they all are with this, how
they're flooding the zone with it to kind of again
chum the waters and make you believe there's some giant
riff with Magna and prompt. And I saw a comment
that was great from Bridgett Fetnessey, who is great.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
She hosts her own show, and she's podcaster, and she said,
I haven't talked to us.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
She talked to a Trump supporter about this, and they
told her that people who talk for a living are
overestimating how important people who don't talk for a living
sake this is. And I think that that's pretty sage
advice on all of this.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
So we go from Jeffrey Epstein to Daniel Tiger, how
do we do that? The following Paula Kerger PBS president
on the move by Congress to defund public broadcasting, and
she says, what me worry.
Speaker 12 (12:53):
I don't think that Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is a biased
program that teaches children basic skills around letters and and
when you look at the breadth of programming that we
are very much committed to serving all of America. The
news programming that we do represents about ten percent of
our broadcast schedule, and that includes the News Hour, of
(13:15):
which I'm very proud of the excellence of the journalism
of that series.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
So I would push back.
Speaker 12 (13:20):
I always ask them for examples. People often struggle to
come up with examples of what really they're talking about.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Ooh, but Senator John Kennedy didn't struggle. He had a
list ready.
Speaker 9 (13:31):
Here are a couple that you saw on television. PBH
pay for with your tax dollar. First headline, talking to
young children about.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
Race and racism.
Speaker 9 (13:42):
Another headline, how America's history of racism connects to divisions today.
Another headline from PBS, the hidden racism of young white
Americas your tax dollars. Another headline, AP fact check. Trump
seeds race animals.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
With COVID falsehood.
Speaker 9 (14:05):
Another headline, Biden trumpets economic games but struggles to get credit.
Another headline from PBS, the other Olympians transgender athletes in
the Nazi area, come on, give me a break.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
Yeah, And despite all of that evidence, Kerger says, no,
there's nothing to see here.
Speaker 12 (14:26):
We're always interested, obviously, in making sure that we're serving
a multiplicity of viewpoints.
Speaker 13 (14:32):
You know.
Speaker 12 (14:32):
Bill Buckley made his home in public broadcasting with the
series called firing Line, which continues today with Margaret Hoover.
We are interested in having different perspectives that we bring forward.
But when I look at the range of our programmings
on public broadcasting, I can't I can't make any sense
of an argument that we are somehow biased in any way.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Can't see it, Catherine Mayer.
Speaker 7 (14:55):
We flash to a picture of her in Arizona wearing
a Biden hat in twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
I mean exactly hiding here, Steve.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
And they're not doing a good job of it, and
yet they're pretending it doesn't exist. It seems to be
central to the problem.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, if your only example that you are not a
biased news network is dragging out a conservative commentary you
can debt for fifteen years, you're probably.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
Not making the point you think you are.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
If the only person you can come up with is
William F. Buckley, you know our ip I wrote for
National Review. You're making the point for us here.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
And as far as.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Margaret Hoover is concerned, they've taken this as kind of
bastardized what firing line was. Margaret Hoover goes on there
now and she jokes about Alexandria Casio Cortez and her
high heels and content like that. Margaret Hoover is married.
She's a CNN commentator as well. She's married to John Avalon,
who was the former editor of The Daily Beast. He
ran as a Democrat in New York City, and she
(15:49):
retweeted support for his candidacy.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
It's nobody's fooled by this anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And you know, I even have progressive people who are
who think the statement that NPR isn't biased is laughable
on his face. NPR put a pardoner warning on the
Declaration of Independence in twenty twenty two, and that right
there should pretty much you know, to find anything that
to do with National Public Radio. And one of the
arguments you always see is when you know, we always
(16:15):
kind of do this song and dance, this defund song
and dance, is that you know, you're only defunding two
percent of our annual budget. The money's nothing. But then
when we actually do it, it's old, my god, what
this is the threat to the constitution. Something that's interesting
is both PBS and NPR were designated as government media
accounts on Twitter in twenty twenty three. When Elon Musk
(16:36):
bought the platform. They've left in protest that that is
not a fair designation. Well, here we are making sure
you're no longer a government funded account, and the sky
is falling. It's the end of the republic as we
know it. Nothing these people say make sense, Well, they
always break out this kind of passive voice when they
speak in public because they have to keep the game
up of objectivity, which everyone knows, including their own audience
(16:59):
doesn't exit.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
That's why that audience listens to NPR on the regular
Steven L. Miller, our guest can't have both ways, PBS,
either the funding matters or it doesn't. And you can
either make it on your own or you can't. And
now that it's real, now that Congress is defunding public broadcasting,
Now this guy is falling one more here and this
is Michelle Obama with her special guest, appearing to end
(17:22):
all the rumors and innuendo. This has the feel though
of a Megan moment. And I'm talking about Harry and Meghan.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Wait you guys like each other?
Speaker 13 (17:32):
Oh yeah, really, that's the rumor mill.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
That don't start.
Speaker 14 (17:44):
I can't.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
It's so nice to have you both.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
In the same room, I know.
Speaker 13 (17:51):
Because when we aren't, folks think we're divorced.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
These are the kinds of things.
Speaker 11 (17:56):
Yeah, I just miss right, So I don't even know
this stuff going on, right, And then somebody will mention
it to me and I'm all, what you're talking about?
Speaker 13 (18:04):
Yeah, there hasn't been one moment in our marriage where
I thought about Quentin, my man, and we've had some
really hard times, so we had to have had a
lot of fun times, a lot of adventures, and I
have become a better person because of the man I'm
(18:25):
married to.
Speaker 11 (18:26):
Okay, don't maybe cry now, don't start turning up that.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
For someone who hates the spotlight and all the scuttle butt,
Michelle Obama sure does love the spotlight and the scuttle butt.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Stephen, Yeah, Obama saying these things. He doesn't pay attention
to these things as a lie. Yeah, this guy is,
you know, the most online former president we had in
our history, and he pays attention to all of this stuff.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
They're out of public life, and you know, there's somewhat
private citizens. No matter how much Obama still has his
clause in the Democra at a party in an im
biting world in particular, it's not something that totally kind
of interests me. I know, Michelle Obama is the polarizing
figure on the right. They throw her out there as
a presidential candidate every four years. She's completely disinterested in
(19:13):
that stuff, and this is this is just another way
to kind of keep them in the news.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That the host of this podcast said it's surprising to
see you two in the same room together, which seems
like a not normal thing that you would say to
a happily married couple.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
But I think I'll probably just leave it.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
At that and you can hear more about it on
the Versus Media podcast available on a substack. Follow him
on x at Red Steeve, Steven L.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Miller. Always a pleasure having you on. Thanks again for
your time today.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Thanks Ryan. Hopefully they're still married next time.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
I think, well, hopefully we can. A guy can dream.
We'll take this time out. Stephen Tubbs joins us.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
Next.
Speaker 7 (19:49):
There is this story now with the trial of his
former dentist murdering his wife in the hopes of pursuing
an affair. Yeah, you probably saw it on Dateline, NBC
or something similar. We'll talk more about it with Stephan
when we come back. Mor Ryan Schuling live after this.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
The Colorado dentist on trial accused of killing his wife
of twenty three years by allegedly poisoning her slowly and
what prosecutor said today he was putting in her protein shakes.
That trial now underway, and here's our chief National correspondent
mapp up in Tonight.
Speaker 15 (20:24):
Tonight, prosecutors laying out their case against the former Colorado
dentist accused of murdering his wife with protein shakes laced
with cyanide, arsenic and a chemical commonly found in eye drops.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Intentionally can the ace had of her mind?
Speaker 15 (20:40):
The prosecutors say that in March of twenty twenty three,
James Craig's wife of over twenty years, Angela, the mother
of his six children, began experiencing dizziness, headaches, and vomiting.
Investigators say James Craig used his dental clinics computers to
research poisons, logging searches such as how to make poison
and is our detectable in autopsy? Angela Craig was hospitalized
(21:03):
at least three times over ten days before she died
in March of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
But there was a mote, and you asked yourself, this
is mine follow up to other women?
Speaker 15 (21:14):
Yes, we exclusively interviewed the so called other women, respected
orthodotist named Karen Kane, their relationship playing out in texts
and phone calls that she says it never got physical.
Do you think that James Craig allegedly poisoned his wife
to clear the decks so he could.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Be with you. There's no way I'm motove. There's been
no planning a future together.
Speaker 15 (21:38):
And in court today, the defense attorney for the dentist
trying to paint the picture that James Craig's wife, Angela,
may have been suicidal.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
She was broken and had by her own words, she
was broken, she was struggling David.
Speaker 15 (21:53):
The prosecution says that that is just another lie from
James Craig. They say he also tried to fabricate evidence
to show that his wife was suicidal, even plant to
try to have the lead investigator.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
In this case killed.
Speaker 15 (22:07):
James Craig has pleaded not guilty to all of the charges.
Speaker 7 (22:10):
That's national news once again coming out of you guessed it, Aurora, folks.
I'm trying, I swear to find good news to report
coming out of Aurora, but it's just day after day now,
kid gets kidnapped on a playground. Drop the charges against
the perpetrator because he's not mentally competent to stand trial.
We've got gangs trendy Iarragua taken over apartment complexes in
(22:31):
Aurora it's just one thing after another. And this is
one of those you know, these true crime shows, whether
the husband kills the wife or the wife kills the husband,
and they're looking to get to somebody.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Here's the thing, how about I don't know, divorce the person.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
Why go through all this trouble, put yourself through it, murdered, poisoning, studying.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
You know, just end it and move on with your life.
Speaker 7 (22:52):
But apparently sanity and common sense doesn't apply here for
James Craig, the Colorado dentist who at one time was
the US for our following guests, longtime talk show host
Coleen right here at iHeart in his resume. Stephan Tubbs
joins us on Ryan Schuling Live. Stephan, welcome, brother.
Speaker 14 (23:10):
Good to have you or to be with you, and thanks.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
For having me.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
Absolutely, I just want to start at the beginning for you.
When you heard about this news breaking me. This was
your dentist, James Craig, I can only imagine how you
might have reacted to this.
Speaker 14 (23:24):
No, it was absolutely I don't think it's an overstatement
to say my mind was blown. I was actually out
of state and I remember waking up in March of
twenty twenty three on a Sunday morning, and I'm scrolling
through my Twitter feed and you know, there's this, you
know story out of the Aurora Police Department's Twitter feed
(23:48):
that you know, police arrest Aurora dentist accused of killing
his wife. I didn't think anything of it. I then
went about my day, came back to Colorado, did my show,
my Ready show that Monday, and as I'm doing show prep,
I'm like, you know what, I better read up on this,
and so instead of just seeing the headline, I opened
(24:08):
up the story. And when I open up the story,
there's the mugshot of Jim Craig, who I knew as Jim,
and I was blown away. And on top of that,
when I was at KOA for so many years, around
two thousand and eight to maybe give or take a
(24:29):
couple of years, but like two thousand and eight to
twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, I did the summer Brook Dental
radio ads on KOA. So I was telling you, you know,
go see my dentist, doctor Jim Craig, and summer Brook Dental.
They've got a teeth cleaning special forty nine ninety nine
or whatever. And even up to this point Ryan to day,
(24:51):
I still cannot believe when I see his picture, when
I hear the allegations. None of that though, it all
pales in comparison to Angela Craig's death and how she died,
the mother of six. I have, throughout following this and
talking about it, I've always tried to make sure to say, look,
you know, keep thinking about those kids. Many of them
(25:13):
are of adult age now eighteen and over, but they're
forever without a mother and just the pure suffering that
she went through in the final couple of weeks of
her life.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Stephan Tubbs joining us one time patient of Dennis Jim Craig,
now on trial for the murder, poisoning, murder of his wife,
as he was.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Maybe trying to start another affair.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
Another woman in question says they didn't even really start up,
not hot and heavy anyway as anyone would define it.
I want to approach this from two different angles from you, Stephan,
because this is fascinating to me. I know it's surreal
for you, but in that moment, you know, doing this
job as a talk show host, usually you're detached and
you're kind of analyzing a situation, but by no choice,
of your own. You're immersed in it, You're embedded in it.
(25:57):
This is your dentist. How do you even approach that
from aalistic standpoint?
Speaker 14 (26:02):
Yeah, I mean it was a trip, man, it was
a trip for the first few weeks of talking about
it every day. I started a podcast. I haven't done
it in a long time, but there's a podcast called
Arsenic Dds. And if you want to, like, if you're
following the case now for your listeners, none of the
facts have changed, so you can go back and find
that anywhere you get podcasts, but it's called Arsenic Dds.
(26:23):
And we did that because I just I knew that
this was going to be well getting the attention obviously
that it is, but you know, from just a pure
dental patient perspective, I mean, Jim Craig, I've called him
this many other formats and I'll say it again to you.
You know, he was a very nice guy, incredibly competent dentist,
(26:44):
and I knew of his family.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
I knew Angela.
Speaker 14 (26:46):
I sat in on meetings with her, we went to
a couple of social events together. I didn't know her well,
but they came across as this big, large family, successful
dental practice in Aurora. And you know, to your point
a few more months ago about just in these situations,
why can't they just file for divorce? I'm right there
(27:06):
with you. I don't understand it. And then to your
other point about the orthodontis that he met in late
February of twenty twenty three, Karen Kane, she is.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
I think she was scheduled to.
Speaker 14 (27:19):
Be on the witness stand today in Arapahoe County. But
you know, for the first few weeks of talking about this, I,
like everybody else, called her the mistress, and you know,
you kind of just cast her in this negative light, right,
And she had no idea she was being fed lie
after lie from Jim Craig.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
She says, their relationship.
Speaker 14 (27:39):
Never got physical, whether or not people want to believe that.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I couldn't care less. But she was not a mistress.
She was somebody. She was one.
Speaker 14 (27:48):
She was another one of in my opinion, Jim Craig's.
Speaker 7 (27:51):
Victim, Stephan Tudds joining us, one time patient of this
Colorado dunnist and a leegend murderer James Craig killing his
own wife as prosecutor, are presenting the case in a
Rapahoe County.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
That's the eighteenth, by the way, with.
Speaker 7 (28:04):
Laced protein shakes for his wife, and Stephan put it.
You know this is not a clean and subtle death,
the way that this went down for his poor wife.
I guess final question here, Stefan really appreciate you joining us,
and that is they mentioned you wouldn't pick up on this.
I mean, this guy's really good at compartmentalizing his life.
And many people in these situations they're pathological liars, They're narcissistic, sociopaths,
(28:27):
et cetera. Who knows, who knows what the diagnosis would be.
But was there anything maybe in retrospect, not in the moment,
but when you've looked back and reflect about Jim Craig,
your dentist, anything that was askew, any red flag, anything
that stood out about his behavior?
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Not a thing?
Speaker 14 (28:43):
Wow, And isn't that I think the most concerning thing.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
You never know? Yeah, you just never know. You never
know about your neighbors.
Speaker 14 (28:52):
I'm not saying that it's you know, the farious type.
You never know about the person that you're checking out
next to at the grocery store.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
You never know, in this case, about your dentist.
Speaker 14 (29:02):
I will say this in kind of wrapping. Look, anybody
out there that thinks that Angela Craig wanted to die
and that you know the defense is going to be
she wanted to take her own life.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Et cetera. It's a hogwash. This man is.
Speaker 14 (29:16):
In my opinion, he is guilty. I mean, we could
talk another two hours. He's accused of putting a hit
out on the lead a Laura police detective for crying
out loud. Oh in, his attorney is no longer one
of his attorneys because he was accused of setting his
own house on fire a couple of weeks ago. This
story is sensational. The bottom line though, I focus on
(29:37):
the children and Angela Craig, makes you rest.
Speaker 7 (29:40):
In peace, curious or and curious or what a surreal
situation for Stephan Tubbs. You can follow him on ex
at sw Tubbs. That's two bes to you, Bbs, Stephan.
Fascinating stuff. We'll see where the trial goes. But again,
your first hand perspective very useful today.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Thank you, hey man, anytime. Take care.
Speaker 7 (29:58):
Stephan Tubbs right there, Action five seven seven three and
I will close out with your texts here on Ryan Shuoling.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Live close enough shop here on a Thursday edition.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
Of Ryan Schuling Live, Glad to have you along five
seven seven three nine is where you can always.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
Send those texts.
Speaker 7 (30:17):
I'm still trying to get my head on straight from
this conversation with Stephan Tubbs Kelly that this was his
dentist and it's national news.
Speaker 6 (30:25):
A murder mystery, not so mysterious.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
She's sort of very delete though at the end.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
Bite.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Yeah, I like that that the lawyer tried to, you know,
set his house on fire.
Speaker 6 (30:35):
Things like that.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
Yeah, but hiss my point. You're not getting along. You
want to move on with somebody else. The relationship's over.
Get divorced. Yeah, through the whole thing.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
Get divorced. You're free. She's free, she can live. Do
you want to die? What do you want to die?
Speaker 8 (30:48):
But the other thing that comes to me is how
dumb he was by using his office computer to search
things like, okay, poison, Oh is arsenic?
Speaker 6 (30:59):
Does that show up on an autopsy? I lit on
the nose there.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
Yeah, This from Steven Littleton, retired la O.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
He I just cracked a can.
Speaker 7 (31:06):
It was not beer, sadly, it's Coca cola and it
has unfortunately artificial sweetener, and I was gonna get to
that story today, but maybe we'll save that one for tomorrow.
Real cane sugar, Baby Mexican Coke. Coca Cola disputing what
President Trump put out there though that maybe they're gonna
stick with the crappy high fructose cones there. We got
to do a taste test, I think for both Zach
and Kelly, Mexican Coke with the real cane sugar on
(31:29):
one side, high fruittose corn syrup coke on the other,
and I'm gonna bet you can tell the difference that
the cane sugar tastes way better.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
You absolutely can. Yeah, yeah, So Coca Cola's claiming you
can't come on.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
We know it's cheaper and that's the only reason you
use it, but you know sugar is a lot easier
to come by in Mexico anyway. Stephen Lilson says, please
tell Stephan I miss him. Don't misunderstand. I do love
your show, Steve. You can love us both. There's enough
love to go around. I love Stefan. He's a great guy.
I'd love to have him in here, maybe for a full.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Shot one of these days. Tell him man, Kelly that'd
be fun.
Speaker 8 (32:01):
You know, he probably did.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
I think he should.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
Yeah, And back on your point about coke with sugar,
sugar is a lot easier to break down in your
body than all the artificial sweetmar.
Speaker 7 (32:12):
Coca Cola claims that's not the case, but I agree
with you.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
RFK Junior agrees with you, and me too.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
Patty says Michelle, There's not been one moment in our marriage.
I thought about quitting my man Barack Ditto. Yeah, did
a like the movie ghost Dittoh you know what, Patty,
if you watch or listen closely to that part, I'm
glad you zeroed in on it. She catches herself, Michelle,
because she's going to say there has not been one
moment in our relationship. She says that are if you
(32:40):
listen very closely, there's the R and she turns it
to marriage. So I'm assuming and.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
This is not unusual.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
But at some point in their relationships since they met,
started dating, got engaged, Da da da, there may have
been a moment back then, in the formative years before
the marriage, where she did consider leaving her man. So
go back listen to that carefully. I invite you to
do that.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
This text says, hopefully, Kelly never gave that uber driver
a tip. Kelly verdict, I have not given any tips
so far yet, but you might. You're gonna cave.
Speaker 7 (33:13):
You're gonna cave the lib uber driver who somehow someway
listens to this show.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
Did you ever find out her name? It should be
in your uber record on the app.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
I'm trying to look for it.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
I want to say hi to her and let her
know I'm not a bad guy. I'm not an angry guy.
I'm a fun guy. You are a good time.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
You know, are a fun guy.
Speaker 8 (33:32):
I've been on too many sporting events with you. Well
that those are fun and sports spars.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Yeah, march madness, this texture, don't go there.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
He says he couldn't afford the child support for six
kids and a new girlfriend slash new wife. Well, could
he afford that or alternatively, option B the rest of
his life in prison. I'm not saying there's a good
choice there, but there certainly is a bad one and
a far worse one, and the bad one that he
probably could have navigated. The child support for the six kids,
(34:01):
the new girlfriend, the new wife, and if that new girlfriend.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Was that important to you, that's the route you take.
Speaker 7 (34:06):
You don't just poison and murder your wife. I'm glad
we could come to that conclusion. For today's show, Christian.
Speaker 6 (34:13):
Toto The Right Side of Hollywood that's coming up tomorrow.
Stick and stay around for that right here on Ryan
Schuling Live
So what does it signify The Republicans ahead of the
midterms believe that that it's going to be so necessary
to get an upper hand that they have to actually
redraw an entire states congressional maps in order to get five.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hole scenes out of it.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Oh, probably the same thing that it signifies when they
did in Illinois and got a fourteen three delegation for
D's Maryland seven to one, Massachusetts nine to zero. We
know what happened here in New York California, even though
they have a commission.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
We all know what goes on there in all these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Mid cycles specifically, are all of those cases in mid cycles?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
All of these cases are where Democrats use the power
but they have to give them minute.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But just to be clear, because I'm I didn't do
the research that you did in the break here, is
it that they're changing it after the actual census process
where you're supposed to create a you're supposed to go
through the congressional redistricting process.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Does it matter?
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Yeah, I think that's the hotel.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It is okay for Democrats in that I didn't do
the reading, I didn't do the home work.
Speaker 7 (01:00):
But allow me to opine, says Abby Phillips CNN moderating
this panel. The only shining star on it Scott Jennings
on a regular basis. The only reason the show gets
any ratings whatsoever is because of Scott Jennings. This is
an intellectual mismatch. It's kind of cringe worthy to watch.
He's exactly right. Go look at a map, a congressional
(01:22):
map of Illinois, and tell me that you've ever seen
a jigsaw puzzle. Look that messed up. It is ridiculous.
New York has done the same, California has done the same,
Maryland's manipulated their map. Massachusetts make sure not a single
Republican representative is elected to Congress on their map. These
are all stone cold examples. But Abby Philip, what have
(01:44):
you believed? Oh, it's in a midterm election year, and like, well,
what's She completely loses the plot there, even though Scott
Jennings provides very level headed contexts. But we're not done.
If you thought that was bad, let's talk about eggs.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
People are suffering.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
You know how I know this because I heard all
about that from you last year, and I would to beat.
Speaker 8 (02:01):
You, and you kept talking about how the price of
eggs is really high.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
Well, guess what, it's much higher now than.
Speaker 7 (02:06):
We were literally lying about the.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Before. Accuse her of lying.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I literally just went over this.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
She is correct that.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Year over year Donald Trump book office, what happened to
the eggs?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
Oh my god? Do you not understand that the difference.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Was the president last year this time.
Speaker 6 (02:28):
Let me just so we can move on.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Because.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
This conversation I have a serious.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Derailing the congressation.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Pardon me, she's not telling me, pardon me, but you're
derailing the conversation. Okay, I think people have the ability
to understand the difference between the price of eggs today
and the price of eggs a year ago today versus
what you would prefer to talk about, which is the
price of eggs when Donald Trump was inaugurated. You're just
talking about two You're talking about two different time horizons. Okay,
(02:59):
let's just leave it at the leave it at that.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
No, no, no, what Scott Jennings says is exactly right.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Year over year. Who cares for half of that time span.
Speaker 7 (03:09):
Joe Biden was the president, with his restrictive policies in
place that drove up inflation, the cost of transporting goods,
the cost of energy, Trump is sworn in and it
takes a while for his policies.
Speaker 6 (03:24):
To take a fact.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
But since that time, the price of eggs, Scott Jennings
is correct, has come down. So why would you blame
Donald Trump for the six months that preceded him where
inflation was still out of control? Why does he have
to absorb what he inherited from Joe Biden? Why is
that the timeline? Abby Phillip? And she joins in in
the chorus here not as a moderator, not as a moderator,
(03:49):
but as an agitator and joining us. Now he's had
it with Abby Phillip. That's part of the reason why
I had him on, because we I think are an
agreement on this topic.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Steven L.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Miller, he has read Steez on X you and listen
to his Versus Media podcast on his sub stack.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
Steven, welcome to it.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know, Abby Phillip just announced that she wrote a
book about Jesse Jackson, So if you want to know
how down the line she is, I'm wondering if these
sexual harassment claims are going to make it in that book.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
I would bet no on that one, but just for
our listeners benefit, and I'm sorry to torture you with it.
The two clips you just heard, how would you break
those down, and how this panel proceeds, how this show operates,
How Abby Phillip tries to run her ballgame unwatchable.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's probably the first one that comes to mind.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
I don't know who does, I don't know who.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
CNN thinks, you know, there's a foxtail and sits down
for a fun evening of watching seven people scream at
one person. And I guess you know, Abby Phillip was
brought into Seeing in part time to kind of be
the adult in the room and she kind of does
that passive InterVoice at Scott Jennings, and I do think,
(04:56):
you know, Jennings kind of has launched his career from that.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
He's he does this funny, this gym.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Thing where he breaks the fourth wall, and those are
the clips that go viral, and CNN knows this and
so that's why they kind of keep them on there.
And he does this act, and I do think he
upstages her own show a bit, and I think that
she shows resentment to that beyond just raking political bias.
There was a Cliptis from two Nights Ago where Anna
Navarro who's who is of the view claimed that you know,
(05:25):
a male, white male guest on there who his opinion
was not valid because he is a white man, and
he confronted on this Appey Phillip has to step in,
and funny thing is he takes her side of this,
and really, you know, I've said that in the past,
and n basically saw what the view was doing, which
is just five haggard, unlistenable women shrieking at each other
(05:46):
like your hectoring sister in law. They decided we want
to take that format and put it on CNN where
nobody is watching us. If they get Scott Jennings an
hour show up, they really want to be cared about
ratings and that audience capture, which is what it is.
Scott Jennings would be the one with the show in
this time slot.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
Steven L.
Speaker 7 (06:05):
Miller our guest at red Stez on X So the
future of I don't know this show. It's kind of
like we watched the demise of Crossfire and John Stewart
kind of took a match to that when he appeared
and you talked about that his show follows puppets and
he was ripping on Tucker Carlson and Paul mcgala.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
I remember that. Well, it's like over twenty years ago now,
but this.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
Show seems to be the one reason anybody might tune
in to see it, and it is because of Scott Jennings.
You mentioned Abby Phillip does resent this. Do you think
this show is long for television? In that Abby Philip
understands that this is kind of a bargain she's got
to live with because Scott Jennings is the energy for
us that generates ratings.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I don't expect anybody at CNN to make any smart
decisions anytime soon. They don't have a cracker showing they
have the ability to do any of this. I mean,
firing Brian Seltzer was one, but then they just rehired
him back. And so I think, what's CNN and I've
had will have appeared on the show privately tell me
that they're done. They don't even want to go back
on this. So they've had a CNN offer them hotel
(07:06):
rooms to fly them, They've offered them pet sitting services
and they turned them down. They said, no, I don't
want to be a part of this because I get ambushed.
You invite me on to have a spirited discussion and
then I get ambushed by four people while the host
sits there and exit on when her job is to
be a moderator between you know, liberal guests conservative guests.
And I sit here and I watch what Bret Bayer does,
(07:27):
and I don't watch a turn of Fox News, but
he has kind of the Charles Crodhammer rule, which is,
I'm going to bring three of you on. You're going
to speak to each other in a civilized voice at
Crowdhammer kind of pioneer, and you get twenty minutes of
good debate and nobody's yelling at each other about how
racist the other one is. And it's funny how CNN
doesn't take, you know, the format of a network they
clearly hate but clearly works. They mop up the ratings
(07:52):
left and right, and like they said, I don't know
what CNN plan here as there was talking about reshuffling,
they were talking about changing things up, but again they're
ratings are you know, lower than sewer water, and they
still decide on putting this kind of content out there.
And the reason is because of the viral clips. They
think that you know, even negative eyeballs are driving this,
(08:13):
so hey, that's enough to kind of keep our sponsors.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Say, hey, look how many Look how many reposts? This gits?
Look how many lights to get in locial media. Not
the reason behind it, it's just that it happens.
Speaker 7 (08:24):
You can hear him talk more about it on the
Versus Media podcasts available on his substack. You can click
to that link from his x feed and that's at
red Steez ste Ze Stephen L. Miller our guests for
his regular visits and critiquing the media something I enjoy doing.
But I'm going to give some kudos here, at least
a faint praise. I'll damn him with it. Joe Scarborough
(08:46):
pushing back on Representative Jennie Raskin about something that you know,
Steven says, he refuses to take the Epstein bait just
the same way that the alternative cops in Beverly Hills
cops say they're not going to fall for the banana
and the tailpipe. Let's check out the banana and the pipe,
as Joe Scarborough asked rask and now, look, Joe Biden
was president for four years here, twenty one through twenty five.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
You had control of Congress.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
You could have summoned the Epstein files and publicized those
at any time.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
Why didn't you do it?
Speaker 9 (09:12):
Why didn't Democrats call far from twenty one to twenty five.
Speaker 10 (09:18):
So, I mean you have to go back and look
specifically at particular prosecutorial decisions and what was taking place
in terms of the other cases.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
So I don't know.
Speaker 10 (09:30):
We could try to reconstruct that record. But the point
is that Donald Trump is the one who has led
the crusade to.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
Say that.
Speaker 10 (09:40):
Epstein, who was his very close friend, and there's all
kinds of pictures of them and so on, that Epstein
was at the center of this broad conspiracy. He's now
in a position to do exactly what he demanded, which
was to release all of the files.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
And so why is that not happening? That's the question I.
Speaker 10 (09:58):
Can't answer for Mirk Garland or any of you know,
anybody else in the Department of Justice.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
Pretty ham handed response there, Steve and not used to
being challenged by friendly media Jamie Raskin in this case.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
But I think if it was ever a.
Speaker 7 (10:12):
Time whore is appropriate to be cynical of all sides
in the Epstein files, that would be the case to
do it.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
What do you make of his response there?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I mean, there is a point there that this all
feels performative on the Democrats are going for the release.
This is this is one kind of giant, big role
being executed on Trump and then obviously the influencer of
the throwing out the Epstein binders and stuff, and the.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Democrats know it, and the media is giddy over this.
Speaker 11 (10:41):
And this is what I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I'm not going to take the date on any of
this is this feels like it's a self inflicted wound
a bit from Trump, who can campaign on parts of this,
but the fact that, you know, the influencers who followed
his every single word and move thinks that he needs them,
He's turned out, He's done after this.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
He doesn't need them any war. But this is really
the first.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Opening the media has had since Donald Trump was reelected.
He's he just came off probably the best month of
his entire presidency with the Iran strikes. We did have
inflations kind of cooling a bit, but you know, tear
damage isn't all haven't been dooming gloom as economists of predicted,
and he you know, he really is coming up his
best month and this is really the first opening since
(11:23):
he was re elected where the media sees something they
think that they have blood in the water here, and
so they're just coming it and chumping it. Like I said,
it's one big troll, betting executed. None of these people
actually care about Epstein's victims.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Which is kind of the point of all of this.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's just kind of being used as a bat to
hit each other over the head with whether it's the
media hitting Trump, the Democrats sitting Trump, or Trump hitting
you know, former fundits over and I find it all
very disinteresting.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
Then we'll move on. Steven L. Miller, our guest.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
I think this one it's just one big troll. The
media knows what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
It's like when they.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Trolled Trump with his walk down the ramp when he
questioned Hillary's health. It's no difference. And you can tell
by how over excited they all are with this, how
they're flooding the zone with it to kind of again
chum the waters and make you believe there's some giant
riff with Magna and prompt. And I saw a comment
that was great from Bridgett Fetnessey, who is great.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
She hosts her own show, and she's podcaster, and she said,
I haven't talked to us.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
She talked to a Trump supporter about this, and they
told her that people who talk for a living are
overestimating how important people who don't talk for a living
sake this is. And I think that that's pretty sage
advice on all of this.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
So we go from Jeffrey Epstein to Daniel Tiger, how
do we do that? The following Paula Kerger PBS president
on the move by Congress to defund public broadcasting, and
she says, what me worry.
Speaker 12 (12:53):
I don't think that Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is a biased
program that teaches children basic skills around letters and and
when you look at the breadth of programming that we
are very much committed to serving all of America. The
news programming that we do represents about ten percent of
our broadcast schedule, and that includes the News Hour, of
(13:15):
which I'm very proud of the excellence of the journalism
of that series.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
So I would push back.
Speaker 12 (13:20):
I always ask them for examples. People often struggle to
come up with examples of what really they're talking about.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Ooh, but Senator John Kennedy didn't struggle. He had a
list ready.
Speaker 9 (13:31):
Here are a couple that you saw on television. PBH
pay for with your tax dollar. First headline, talking to
young children about.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
Race and racism.
Speaker 9 (13:42):
Another headline, how America's history of racism connects to divisions today.
Another headline from PBS, the hidden racism of young white
Americas your tax dollars. Another headline, AP fact check. Trump
seeds race animals.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
With COVID falsehood.
Speaker 9 (14:05):
Another headline, Biden trumpets economic games but struggles to get credit.
Another headline from PBS, the other Olympians transgender athletes in
the Nazi area, come on, give me a break.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
Yeah, And despite all of that evidence, Kerger says, no,
there's nothing to see here.
Speaker 12 (14:26):
We're always interested, obviously, in making sure that we're serving
a multiplicity of viewpoints.
Speaker 13 (14:32):
You know.
Speaker 12 (14:32):
Bill Buckley made his home in public broadcasting with the
series called firing Line, which continues today with Margaret Hoover.
We are interested in having different perspectives that we bring forward.
But when I look at the range of our programmings
on public broadcasting, I can't I can't make any sense
of an argument that we are somehow biased in any way.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Can't see it, Catherine Mayer.
Speaker 7 (14:55):
We flash to a picture of her in Arizona wearing
a Biden hat in twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
I mean exactly hiding here, Steve.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
And they're not doing a good job of it, and
yet they're pretending it doesn't exist. It seems to be
central to the problem.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, if your only example that you are not a
biased news network is dragging out a conservative commentary you
can debt for fifteen years, you're probably.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
Not making the point you think you are.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
If the only person you can come up with is
William F. Buckley, you know our ip I wrote for
National Review. You're making the point for us here.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
And as far as.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Margaret Hoover is concerned, they've taken this as kind of
bastardized what firing line was. Margaret Hoover goes on there
now and she jokes about Alexandria Casio Cortez and her
high heels and content like that. Margaret Hoover is married.
She's a CNN commentator as well. She's married to John Avalon,
who was the former editor of The Daily Beast. He
ran as a Democrat in New York City, and she
(15:49):
retweeted support for his candidacy.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
It's nobody's fooled by this anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And you know, I even have progressive people who are
who think the statement that NPR isn't biased is laughable
on his face. NPR put a pardoner warning on the
Declaration of Independence in twenty twenty two, and that right
there should pretty much you know, to find anything that
to do with National Public Radio. And one of the
arguments you always see is when you know, we always
(16:15):
kind of do this song and dance, this defund song
and dance, is that you know, you're only defunding two
percent of our annual budget. The money's nothing. But then
when we actually do it, it's old, my god, what
this is the threat to the constitution. Something that's interesting
is both PBS and NPR were designated as government media
accounts on Twitter in twenty twenty three. When Elon Musk
(16:36):
bought the platform. They've left in protest that that is
not a fair designation. Well, here we are making sure
you're no longer a government funded account, and the sky
is falling. It's the end of the republic as we
know it. Nothing these people say make sense, Well, they
always break out this kind of passive voice when they
speak in public because they have to keep the game
up of objectivity, which everyone knows, including their own audience
(16:59):
doesn't exit.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
That's why that audience listens to NPR on the regular
Steven L. Miller, our guest can't have both ways, PBS,
either the funding matters or it doesn't. And you can
either make it on your own or you can't. And
now that it's real, now that Congress is defunding public broadcasting,
Now this guy is falling one more here and this
is Michelle Obama with her special guest, appearing to end
(17:22):
all the rumors and innuendo. This has the feel though
of a Megan moment. And I'm talking about Harry and Meghan.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Wait you guys like each other?
Speaker 13 (17:32):
Oh yeah, really, that's the rumor mill.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
That don't start.
Speaker 14 (17:44):
I can't.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
It's so nice to have you both.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
In the same room, I know.
Speaker 13 (17:51):
Because when we aren't, folks think we're divorced.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
These are the kinds of things.
Speaker 11 (17:56):
Yeah, I just miss right, So I don't even know
this stuff going on, right, And then somebody will mention
it to me and I'm all, what you're talking about?
Speaker 13 (18:04):
Yeah, there hasn't been one moment in our marriage where
I thought about Quentin, my man, and we've had some
really hard times, so we had to have had a
lot of fun times, a lot of adventures, and I
have become a better person because of the man I'm
(18:25):
married to.
Speaker 11 (18:26):
Okay, don't maybe cry now, don't start turning up that.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
For someone who hates the spotlight and all the scuttle butt,
Michelle Obama sure does love the spotlight and the scuttle butt.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Stephen, Yeah, Obama saying these things. He doesn't pay attention
to these things as a lie. Yeah, this guy is,
you know, the most online former president we had in
our history, and he pays attention to all of this stuff.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
They're out of public life, and you know, there's somewhat
private citizens. No matter how much Obama still has his
clause in the Democra at a party in an im
biting world in particular, it's not something that totally kind
of interests me. I know, Michelle Obama is the polarizing
figure on the right. They throw her out there as
a presidential candidate every four years. She's completely disinterested in
(19:13):
that stuff, and this is this is just another way
to kind of keep them in the news.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That the host of this podcast said it's surprising to
see you two in the same room together, which seems
like a not normal thing that you would say to
a happily married couple.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
But I think I'll probably just leave it.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
At that and you can hear more about it on
the Versus Media podcast available on a substack. Follow him
on x at Red Steeve, Steven L.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Miller. Always a pleasure having you on. Thanks again for
your time today.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Thanks Ryan. Hopefully they're still married next time.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
I think, well, hopefully we can. A guy can dream.
We'll take this time out. Stephen Tubbs joins us.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
Next.
Speaker 7 (19:49):
There is this story now with the trial of his
former dentist murdering his wife in the hopes of pursuing
an affair. Yeah, you probably saw it on Dateline, NBC
or something similar. We'll talk more about it with Stephan
when we come back. Mor Ryan Schuling live after this.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
The Colorado dentist on trial accused of killing his wife
of twenty three years by allegedly poisoning her slowly and
what prosecutor said today he was putting in her protein shakes.
That trial now underway, and here's our chief National correspondent
mapp up in Tonight.
Speaker 15 (20:24):
Tonight, prosecutors laying out their case against the former Colorado
dentist accused of murdering his wife with protein shakes laced
with cyanide, arsenic and a chemical commonly found in eye drops.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Intentionally can the ace had of her mind?
Speaker 15 (20:40):
The prosecutors say that in March of twenty twenty three,
James Craig's wife of over twenty years, Angela, the mother
of his six children, began experiencing dizziness, headaches, and vomiting.
Investigators say James Craig used his dental clinics computers to
research poisons, logging searches such as how to make poison
and is our detectable in autopsy? Angela Craig was hospitalized
(21:03):
at least three times over ten days before she died
in March of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
But there was a mote, and you asked yourself, this
is mine follow up to other women?
Speaker 15 (21:14):
Yes, we exclusively interviewed the so called other women, respected
orthodotist named Karen Kane, their relationship playing out in texts
and phone calls that she says it never got physical.
Do you think that James Craig allegedly poisoned his wife
to clear the decks so he could.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Be with you. There's no way I'm motove. There's been
no planning a future together.
Speaker 15 (21:38):
And in court today, the defense attorney for the dentist
trying to paint the picture that James Craig's wife, Angela,
may have been suicidal.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
She was broken and had by her own words, she
was broken, she was struggling David.
Speaker 15 (21:53):
The prosecution says that that is just another lie from
James Craig. They say he also tried to fabricate evidence
to show that his wife was suicidal, even plant to
try to have the lead investigator.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
In this case killed.
Speaker 15 (22:07):
James Craig has pleaded not guilty to all of the charges.
Speaker 7 (22:10):
That's national news once again coming out of you guessed it, Aurora, folks.
I'm trying, I swear to find good news to report
coming out of Aurora, but it's just day after day now,
kid gets kidnapped on a playground. Drop the charges against
the perpetrator because he's not mentally competent to stand trial.
We've got gangs trendy Iarragua taken over apartment complexes in
(22:31):
Aurora it's just one thing after another. And this is
one of those you know, these true crime shows, whether
the husband kills the wife or the wife kills the husband,
and they're looking to get to somebody.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Here's the thing, how about I don't know, divorce the person.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
Why go through all this trouble, put yourself through it, murdered, poisoning, studying.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
You know, just end it and move on with your life.
Speaker 7 (22:52):
But apparently sanity and common sense doesn't apply here for
James Craig, the Colorado dentist who at one time was
the US for our following guests, longtime talk show host
Coleen right here at iHeart in his resume. Stephan Tubbs
joins us on Ryan Schuling Live. Stephan, welcome, brother.
Speaker 14 (23:10):
Good to have you or to be with you, and thanks.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
For having me.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
Absolutely, I just want to start at the beginning for you.
When you heard about this news breaking me. This was
your dentist, James Craig, I can only imagine how you
might have reacted to this.
Speaker 14 (23:24):
No, it was absolutely I don't think it's an overstatement
to say my mind was blown. I was actually out
of state and I remember waking up in March of
twenty twenty three on a Sunday morning, and I'm scrolling
through my Twitter feed and you know, there's this, you
know story out of the Aurora Police Department's Twitter feed
(23:48):
that you know, police arrest Aurora dentist accused of killing
his wife. I didn't think anything of it. I then
went about my day, came back to Colorado, did my show,
my Ready show that Monday, and as I'm doing show prep,
I'm like, you know what, I better read up on this,
and so instead of just seeing the headline, I opened
(24:08):
up the story. And when I open up the story,
there's the mugshot of Jim Craig, who I knew as Jim,
and I was blown away. And on top of that,
when I was at KOA for so many years, around
two thousand and eight to maybe give or take a
(24:29):
couple of years, but like two thousand and eight to
twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, I did the summer Brook Dental
radio ads on KOA. So I was telling you, you know,
go see my dentist, doctor Jim Craig, and summer Brook Dental.
They've got a teeth cleaning special forty nine ninety nine
or whatever. And even up to this point Ryan to day,
(24:51):
I still cannot believe when I see his picture, when
I hear the allegations. None of that though, it all
pales in comparison to Angela Craig's death and how she died,
the mother of six. I have, throughout following this and
talking about it, I've always tried to make sure to say, look,
you know, keep thinking about those kids. Many of them
(25:13):
are of adult age now eighteen and over, but they're
forever without a mother and just the pure suffering that
she went through in the final couple of weeks of
her life.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Stephan Tubbs joining us one time patient of Dennis Jim Craig,
now on trial for the murder, poisoning, murder of his wife,
as he was.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Maybe trying to start another affair.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
Another woman in question says they didn't even really start up,
not hot and heavy anyway as anyone would define it.
I want to approach this from two different angles from you, Stephan,
because this is fascinating to me. I know it's surreal
for you, but in that moment, you know, doing this
job as a talk show host, usually you're detached and
you're kind of analyzing a situation, but by no choice,
of your own. You're immersed in it, You're embedded in it.
(25:57):
This is your dentist. How do you even approach that
from aalistic standpoint?
Speaker 14 (26:02):
Yeah, I mean it was a trip, man, it was
a trip for the first few weeks of talking about
it every day. I started a podcast. I haven't done
it in a long time, but there's a podcast called
Arsenic Dds. And if you want to, like, if you're
following the case now for your listeners, none of the
facts have changed, so you can go back and find
that anywhere you get podcasts, but it's called Arsenic Dds.
(26:23):
And we did that because I just I knew that
this was going to be well getting the attention obviously
that it is, but you know, from just a pure
dental patient perspective, I mean, Jim Craig, I've called him
this many other formats and I'll say it again to you.
You know, he was a very nice guy, incredibly competent dentist,
(26:44):
and I knew of his family.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
I knew Angela.
Speaker 14 (26:46):
I sat in on meetings with her, we went to
a couple of social events together. I didn't know her well,
but they came across as this big, large family, successful
dental practice in Aurora. And you know, to your point
a few more months ago about just in these situations,
why can't they just file for divorce? I'm right there
(27:06):
with you. I don't understand it. And then to your
other point about the orthodontis that he met in late
February of twenty twenty three, Karen Kane, she is.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
I think she was scheduled to.
Speaker 14 (27:19):
Be on the witness stand today in Arapahoe County. But
you know, for the first few weeks of talking about this, I,
like everybody else, called her the mistress, and you know,
you kind of just cast her in this negative light, right,
And she had no idea she was being fed lie
after lie from Jim Craig.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
She says, their relationship.
Speaker 14 (27:39):
Never got physical, whether or not people want to believe that.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I couldn't care less. But she was not a mistress.
She was somebody. She was one.
Speaker 14 (27:48):
She was another one of in my opinion, Jim Craig's.
Speaker 7 (27:51):
Victim, Stephan Tudds joining us, one time patient of this
Colorado dunnist and a leegend murderer James Craig killing his
own wife as prosecutor, are presenting the case in a
Rapahoe County.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
That's the eighteenth, by the way, with.
Speaker 7 (28:04):
Laced protein shakes for his wife, and Stephan put it.
You know this is not a clean and subtle death,
the way that this went down for his poor wife.
I guess final question here, Stefan really appreciate you joining us,
and that is they mentioned you wouldn't pick up on this.
I mean, this guy's really good at compartmentalizing his life.
And many people in these situations they're pathological liars, They're narcissistic, sociopaths,
(28:27):
et cetera. Who knows, who knows what the diagnosis would be.
But was there anything maybe in retrospect, not in the moment,
but when you've looked back and reflect about Jim Craig,
your dentist, anything that was askew, any red flag, anything
that stood out about his behavior?
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Not a thing?
Speaker 14 (28:43):
Wow, And isn't that I think the most concerning thing.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
You never know? Yeah, you just never know. You never
know about your neighbors.
Speaker 14 (28:52):
I'm not saying that it's you know, the farious type.
You never know about the person that you're checking out
next to at the grocery store.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
You never know, in this case, about your dentist.
Speaker 14 (29:02):
I will say this in kind of wrapping. Look, anybody
out there that thinks that Angela Craig wanted to die
and that you know the defense is going to be
she wanted to take her own life.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Et cetera. It's a hogwash. This man is.
Speaker 14 (29:16):
In my opinion, he is guilty. I mean, we could
talk another two hours. He's accused of putting a hit
out on the lead a Laura police detective for crying
out loud. Oh in, his attorney is no longer one
of his attorneys because he was accused of setting his
own house on fire a couple of weeks ago. This
story is sensational. The bottom line though, I focus on
(29:37):
the children and Angela Craig, makes you rest.
Speaker 7 (29:40):
In peace, curious or and curious or what a surreal
situation for Stephan Tubbs. You can follow him on ex
at sw Tubbs. That's two bes to you, Bbs, Stephan.
Fascinating stuff. We'll see where the trial goes. But again,
your first hand perspective very useful today.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Thank you, hey man, anytime. Take care.
Speaker 7 (29:58):
Stephan Tubbs right there, Action five seven seven three and
I will close out with your texts here on Ryan Shuoling.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Live close enough shop here on a Thursday edition.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
Of Ryan Schuling Live, Glad to have you along five
seven seven three nine is where you can always.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
Send those texts.
Speaker 7 (30:17):
I'm still trying to get my head on straight from
this conversation with Stephan Tubbs Kelly that this was his
dentist and it's national news.
Speaker 6 (30:25):
A murder mystery, not so mysterious.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
She's sort of very delete though at the end.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
Bite.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Yeah, I like that that the lawyer tried to, you know,
set his house on fire.
Speaker 6 (30:35):
Things like that.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
Yeah, but hiss my point. You're not getting along. You
want to move on with somebody else. The relationship's over.
Get divorced. Yeah, through the whole thing.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
Get divorced. You're free. She's free, she can live. Do
you want to die? What do you want to die?
Speaker 8 (30:48):
But the other thing that comes to me is how
dumb he was by using his office computer to search
things like, okay, poison, Oh is arsenic?
Speaker 6 (30:59):
Does that show up on an autopsy? I lit on
the nose there.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
Yeah, This from Steven Littleton, retired la O.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
He I just cracked a can.
Speaker 7 (31:06):
It was not beer, sadly, it's Coca cola and it
has unfortunately artificial sweetener, and I was gonna get to
that story today, but maybe we'll save that one for tomorrow.
Real cane sugar, Baby Mexican Coke. Coca Cola disputing what
President Trump put out there though that maybe they're gonna
stick with the crappy high fructose cones there. We got
to do a taste test, I think for both Zach
and Kelly, Mexican Coke with the real cane sugar on
(31:29):
one side, high fruittose corn syrup coke on the other,
and I'm gonna bet you can tell the difference that
the cane sugar tastes way better.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
You absolutely can. Yeah, yeah, So Coca Cola's claiming you
can't come on.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
We know it's cheaper and that's the only reason you
use it, but you know sugar is a lot easier
to come by in Mexico anyway. Stephen Lilson says, please
tell Stephan I miss him. Don't misunderstand. I do love
your show, Steve. You can love us both. There's enough
love to go around. I love Stefan. He's a great guy.
I'd love to have him in here, maybe for a full.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Shot one of these days. Tell him man, Kelly that'd
be fun.
Speaker 8 (32:01):
You know, he probably did.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
I think he should.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
Yeah, And back on your point about coke with sugar,
sugar is a lot easier to break down in your
body than all the artificial sweetmar.
Speaker 7 (32:12):
Coca Cola claims that's not the case, but I agree
with you.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
RFK Junior agrees with you, and me too.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
Patty says Michelle, There's not been one moment in our marriage.
I thought about quitting my man Barack Ditto. Yeah, did
a like the movie ghost Dittoh you know what, Patty,
if you watch or listen closely to that part, I'm
glad you zeroed in on it. She catches herself, Michelle,
because she's going to say there has not been one
moment in our relationship. She says that are if you
(32:40):
listen very closely, there's the R and she turns it
to marriage. So I'm assuming and.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
This is not unusual.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
But at some point in their relationships since they met,
started dating, got engaged, Da da da, there may have
been a moment back then, in the formative years before
the marriage, where she did consider leaving her man. So
go back listen to that carefully. I invite you to
do that.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
This text says, hopefully, Kelly never gave that uber driver
a tip. Kelly verdict, I have not given any tips
so far yet, but you might. You're gonna cave.
Speaker 7 (33:13):
You're gonna cave the lib uber driver who somehow someway
listens to this show.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
Did you ever find out her name? It should be
in your uber record on the app.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
I'm trying to look for it.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
I want to say hi to her and let her
know I'm not a bad guy. I'm not an angry guy.
I'm a fun guy. You are a good time.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
You know, are a fun guy.
Speaker 8 (33:32):
I've been on too many sporting events with you. Well
that those are fun and sports spars.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Yeah, march madness, this texture, don't go there.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
He says he couldn't afford the child support for six
kids and a new girlfriend slash new wife. Well, could
he afford that or alternatively, option B the rest of
his life in prison. I'm not saying there's a good
choice there, but there certainly is a bad one and
a far worse one, and the bad one that he
probably could have navigated. The child support for the six kids,
(34:01):
the new girlfriend, the new wife, and if that new girlfriend.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Was that important to you, that's the route you take.
Speaker 7 (34:06):
You don't just poison and murder your wife. I'm glad
we could come to that conclusion. For today's show, Christian.
Speaker 6 (34:13):
Toto The Right Side of Hollywood that's coming up tomorrow.
Stick and stay around for that right here on Ryan
Schuling Live
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