February 2, 2026 • 26 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you need wisdom and advice. Seek out a guru.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Guru.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty WSN It's Nick the Construction grew. I'm
excited today because I have the Egbert with me, Chris
Agner from He's laughing, Uh from Chris Agner Design. I Chris,
I'm glad you came on today. I wanted to talk
a little bit about design and uh, maybe we should
talk about our relationship a little bit, how we work together,
and go ahead, talk about it here. I want to
(00:45):
see what I want to I want to see what.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You think we're doing. No, I'll be good.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Now, I've enjoyed I you know, we work together on
many types of projects. I know today we're going to
focus on specifically basements because we've been doing quite a
bit of them. But the you know, the design side
of things up front three D, so people can envision
what they're doing before we start, really give them the
opportunity to explore different options and opportunities. We'll get into
(01:13):
that a little bit more, but yeah, I mean just
really working well on the front side of a project.
The more time we spend upfront with clients, getting them
really comfortable with what they're doing, is they're the.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Project sometimes frustrated, right sure, yeah, sure, yeah, I Right
now we have a very huge, huge project going on
in Caledonia and that that basement is like a total
man cave.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Some of the some of the design features, and I
think there's some innovative design features in both of the
projects that we're working on right now. You know, the
back lit shelves and things like that. I'm gonna I'm
gonna let you talk a little bit about that and
where some of that comes from, because I know a
lot of that those cool little nuances that you incorporate
into the designs are really what takes a design from
(02:01):
very well done to.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
The wall factor, right yep.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And I think that, you know, the virtual design allows
us to see exactly how that's going to look, and
sometimes sometimes it's a little too much while for somebody too,
which is a great great testament to the virtual designing.
So the virtual design, just to explain it, and I
know We've talked so much about it on the show,
but it literally is creating photograph quality renderings of what
(02:27):
the finished project is going to look like after it's done,
Before one nail is driven, you can see what the
finished project is going to look like, and you can
make the decisions on should that cabinet, and this is
something that just happens, should that cabinet have doors on
the bottom, or should it be open shelves. Should we
have a nice linear fireplace below the TV. That was
one of the things we just conquered this week. But
(02:48):
some of these little nuances, let's talk about some of those.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, I mean that's a great point. You know that
it's one thing to lay out walls, where's the doors going?
You know, those sort of things sooner important obviously right
when we got to take into account traffic patterns or
furniture placement or how that room's going to be used.
But it's all these details that, as you said, can
(03:10):
take a project from you know, a nice lower level
family room, whatever the case may be, to you walk
in and go, oh my god, I mean that's awesome.
I never saw that. But it's it can be very
little things you mentioned like underlit shelves. You know, maybe
we're routing a groove in the back of a shelf
and that that light strip. You know, with today's LEDs,
(03:33):
we can do anything anywhere, right, but you know that
can last.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Now it's not like a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But you know that that little bit can wash a wall,
can you know, can accent whether it's the liquor bottles,
the bourbon bottles, the whatever, or some art or whatever.
But it's those little details, little shelves, little display cases,
little you know, just all kinds of details. But in
three D we can explore those options and decide a
(04:03):
do I like it, you know, does it do something
for the project? And then we can start talking about,
you know, how does that affect a budget? Is it
worth it? You know, do we want to do that
or don't we But making those decisions in three d's
a lot less expensive than you know, doing it or
not doing it during the project and wishing.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
We did absolutely And I think another thing, and this
may maybe I didn't tell you this, but the one
that we are working on right now, he just enlisted
Global Site and Sound to do the uh the TV
and all the surround sound and that's a whole other
uh deal with this because a lot of people are
just going to run into Best Buy, They're going to
(04:43):
buy a big TV, They're going to get the premates system.
Disciploy your socks off. What's going on now? And yeah,
is it more money? Yes it is. But I think
if you're going to put in a media area, and
both of the basements right now that the one that
isn't design and the one that we're working on, both
of those had large media centers. I don't want to
say home theaters because I think home theaters as a
(05:06):
dedicated space are kind of a thing of the past,
but you can incorporate theater seating and things like that
into open concepts that we did on that on the
one basement we're working on. So the cool thing is
is if you're going to put that in a basement
and you're going to create an area where it's a
media wouldn't you want to have the best right?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
You know so, so today's technology, you can hang a
sound bar on the wall and there are very good sigaries, right,
But if you're going to go to the level of
these basements we're doing right now, you know where everything
else is top of the line. You know everything, you
absolutely want that sound to go along with it.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, and I think that you know that the designs
that we're doing, I know that you're incorporating several TVs
into like the fitness area, and and so those are
the things that having a professor designer really lays out
to the point that not only the traffic patterns. You know,
a good designer is going to be able to do
traffic patterns, going to be able to do a nice layout,
but a really professional designer is going to have the
(06:10):
nuances that we're talking about. Another one is built in cabinetry,
because a lot of times you'll have a storage space
adjacent to the area you're going to finish. That's an
excellent place to build in a storage that that's flush
on the finished wall and goes in a little bit
into the storage wall and it doesn't take any space,
so you can create all kinds of cool storage yep. Ye.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
And you know you mentioned you know, design, good design, whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
One thing I want to really be sensitive of is,
you know, I see my role as not to tell you,
mister homeowner, this is what you should do with your house.
My role is spending time learning what do you want
this space to look like, how do you want to
use it, who's going to use it, and kind of
taking what you hope it to be. And my role
(06:57):
is to help you visualize what it could be, but
make sure it functions and does it. You know, we
can all create really beautiful stuff, but if it doesn't
function well, also you missed the mark.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I agree with you, but I've been in this business
long enough to see where, you know what. I've seen
things that were supposed to be. We're very expensive and
we're supposed to work out well and they didn't, right,
you know, And unfortunately most of the companies even today,
they aren't. They aren't using virtual design to the depth
(07:32):
that we are, and what happens there is those nuances
sometimes get lost. And I think that if you can
see it. A lot of times you'll look at I
mean there's a lot of times we'll look at a
design and someone will say I like this, this and this,
but that sucks. I don't like that, and you know what,
you can make that decision. I think working with a
professional designer. You know how many times have we talked
(07:54):
people off the ledge where they're ready to make a
bad decision. Here's why this is a bad decision, and
then show them to be able to show them and
they go, oh yeah, you know, and the basement that's
being designed right now? What what floor plan are we
actually on? Is it the third or fourth?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I think the third in a couple of tweaks, but
you know it's evolved. And again this is you know here,
you know, based on what you kind of explained you
want to do with it. This would be a great
layout and has it. But what if we did this
and exploring it in three D is a lot better
than us framing up all the walls and looking at
(08:34):
it and going, I wanted what if we did this?
It's much more expensive at that point to make a change.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And you know another thing that that I think virtual
design helps save marriages. Right, okay, so let's just talk
about you know, we were on a zoom call not
so long ago, and what what did the what did
the fellas say about the designs we were on our
four I think our four set.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, that he loved all of them. He would have
he would have got started on any any one of.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Them would have been fine.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And they were all excellent. It was just really when
when Mama came in, it was like she was visualizing
using it. I think as men we visualized.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Look at it just right exactly. And to that point,
you know, the four different floor plans, and they all
were great, and they all they're not a right and
a wrong. There are certain things that we will as
you just said, you know, somebody might say what I'd
like to do this, and we may explain to them,
based on experience and everything else, here's why you might
not want to do that, and here's why. And ultimately,
(09:37):
you know, it's your home, make the decision. But but
to the point, the four designs we did on the
one we're working through now, every one of them were great.
They just did certain things differently.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And actually every one of them met the criteria that
was but.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Differently right exactly, And then you start deciding priorities. You
know what, I see this space being used more than
that space, so let you know, let's take some something
away from one and put it somewhere else. Those types
of things.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I think the you know, one of the things
we'll talk about after break. I want to go through
is kind of what is the process that people go
through before before the design. I mean, what is a
conversation that we have, How do we what kind of
questions are we asking the homeowners?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
What are you looking for? You know.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
One of the things that I came up with long
ago from a customer is they had they were in
the city and they didn't have a landing spot for
the kids. And that's when they did the rec room downstairs.
And we designed that rec room so that it could
grow with the family, because eventually what they wanted to
do was contain the kids. So they created a really
(10:46):
cool area where everybody wanted to be and that way
they knew where their kids were. But as time went on,
they knew that was they were going to grow out
of that. So a lot of the things that they
did were changeable in the future. Areas that were, you know,
maybe a bedroom for sleepovers now became a craft room.
You know, the bathrooms were set up with showers that
(11:06):
so down the line, areas became guest rooms, things like that.
And I think that's another thing that virtual do. You
can actually see what that's going to look like in
virtual design.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Here it is is a craft room, here it is
a bedroom.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
You know what, how do we address an egress window?
A lot of times people are you know, that's that's
another focal point sometimes an egress window and where that's
put and how it's designed is another important factor. I
think in a lot of designs sometimes you're stuck. You
got to put it here. But the reality, if it
is is a good designer is going to have the
best place in mind for those kinds of things too.
(11:42):
A lot of large kitchens and some and kitchenettes and others.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, and again that goes back to you know, and
we'll get into this after the break, but you know
what are we discussing up front before we start actually
creating those designs, And it's all about how do you
see yourself using this space? Is this you and the family?
Is it you know, fifteen twenty people coming through for
a packer game. You know, how do you see this?
And that's going to help determine those decisions.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, Chris, we're going to take a short break when
we come back. Let's talk about the process first. You know,
when people sit down at the table for the first
time and talk about design, what types of questions are asked?
And then we'll talk about some of the other things
that you just brought up. We're going to take a
short break and we will return after these messages on
news Talk eleven thirty WISN Just Talk eleven thirty WCEN
(12:36):
returning from break. It's Nick the construction Guru.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
If you're thinking about a remodeling project, every single show,
every single time I say you should get a few opinions,
make one of those ours. We'd love to come out
and talk to you about a new rec room. That's
what we're talking about today, Kitchen Bathroom Edition. You can
reach us on the worldwide web at Kurzonerinc dot com.
Give us a call at kurson Will. We will treat
your home as if it were our own. Sometimes I
(12:58):
can't even see our own.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
You've only done it for how many years?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I know, it's so anyway, if you're just tuning
in prior to break, we were talking about we're talking
with Chris Agner from Chris Agnor Design, who works in
concert with Curzon and Remodeling on projects, and we are
talking today about those lower levels. One of the benefits
of doing a lower level is you already own the
real estate. You don't have to put on any additions.
(13:23):
For the most part, the mechanicals are usually usually done
or close to being where we can use them. So
it is you lose a little storage, but you know what,
I think junk expanse to the to the amount of
space have. So you know that's an area that you
go down there and you go, I can't even imagine
(13:43):
this being a living space. I would ask you to
go to our website take a look at some of them.
We have award winning projects on there right now. Chris
and I decided to do this show today because we
have one major project in the works right now, and
we're working on another major project that we put together
about I would say three four months ago. It was
(14:04):
a long time in design and talking about the magic
of virtual design, which is cat on steroids. I always
call it, Chris, let's let's talk about the process. When
a person goes down into their basement and shoes away
the cobwebs and kicks the old erector sets and hockey
equipment out of the way, says what am I going
(14:25):
to do with this? That's where we really come in
and say, you have a beautiful canvas here. For this
reason let's talk about a little bit of that.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Suh sure.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
So you know, we talked a little bit about earlier that,
you know, getting an idea of not only what someone
wants this to look like, but more importantly, how do
they see themselves using it? And you just were talking
earlier about using it today, and how do you see
yourself using it five years from now or ten years
from now. A lot of times, you know where that's
(14:54):
that's part of this process, but early on it's it's
really just lots of questions. You know, how do you
know someone may have friends or family that have a
remodeled lower level or a family room, so they've got
some ideas there, or they've been on houser Pinterest and
they've got ideas from there. But a lot of times
it's all ideas all over the board, and our role
(15:17):
is going to help kind of decide what fits with aid,
your style and how you see yourself using this space,
and then we can start that design process. But it's
a very interactive process. In other words, we're going to
gather all kinds of information. We're going to start with
what we're going to call kind of a first draft,
and then together with the homeowners. We're going to be
(15:38):
reviewing that, and they're going to go I like that,
I love that. I'm not sure I like that, I
hate that. And this process just evolves revisions. There are
things that will come up through the design process that
a homeowner never even thought they wanted, and all of
a sudden, they see, as you said, it used to
be all the storage down there. They can't even envision
what it could be. And as the design starts to
(16:00):
develop in three D where they're seeing it, all of
a sudden, it's like, Ooh, I didn't realize we had
that much space over there. What if we did this,
this or this?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Sometimes I think that the idea to take the lower
level the basement area and culminates from a necessity because
maybe you have an aging parent that's coming and you're
going to put a room in, or maybe there's a
third child and you're going to put the oldest one downstairs,
so you want to start out with a bedroom. A
lot of times, necessity will cause people to start to
(16:33):
think about remodeling, and I think that's kind of shortsighted
sometimes because as we're talking about, you can develop that
into something that's going to serve the family for years
to come, even if that parent or that child are
no longer in that room. Right, there's things we can
do and I think that's what virtual design really shows,
how you can utilize that investment. And it's going to
(16:53):
be a large investment. Let's talk about it. Why just
have it made for a specific purpose for a few years.
Why not have something that can.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
You know, develop, Yeah, and that you know you when
we talk about that that future. Sometimes we're creating what
we'll kind of call a master plan where you know, here,
here's what we're going to do in phase one, and
as those kids get older and move on to their
own homes or what have in phase two, this space
is going to become this as you said, you know
(17:21):
this this space became a craft room or we're doing
a lot of home offices. Now you know, it's not
working from home has become such a big deal, but
it's not sitting at the kitchen table with your laptop anymore.
We're doing dedicated spaces or spaces that can be function
as one thing at you know, recreation type thing, but
(17:42):
an office during the day. So there's a lot of
that that goes into there's even specific furniture exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And I think a lot of times and again, you know,
we when we do our virtual renderings, I think one
of the things that we don't bring up enough is
that we do put the furniture in the exactly, we
do put the rugs, we do all of that kind
of stuff, and sometimes people are really sticklers. I've had
people called out, where'd you get that the rendering and sometimes,
(18:10):
you know, sometimes you don't because they're library items. But
I think it helps with spatial you know, the perspective exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
You know, it's just the flow that you know, is
there enough room between that chair and that table for
people to walk through? You know, all those things that
those you talked early on about the details, those are
the details. You know, there are there are guidelines in
remodeling or home construction or designer layout we want always
there this wide or whatever. But there's a lot more
(18:41):
to it. You know. Somebody might have a piece of
furniture specifically that they want We've had that, oh absolutely,
and we're going to design the room around that piece
of furniture. Well, in three D we can create either
exactly that piece of furniture or very close to it
and physically sized exactly, so we can start laying things
out that way and then helping them envision things again.
(19:03):
You know, we have the ability to literally take a
picture of their backyard and have that be the image
out the windows from this space, so they can really
see what what is this.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Going to look like?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Well, I've had I've had people look at renderings that
have gone through and I know it's faster now, but
several hours of what we know ray tracing, and they
look at it and I go, so this is what
they say. They think that's a picture of the project,
and it's actually a rendering. You know, the software today
it freaks me out, and it's getting better every day,
(19:33):
always you and so you're going to be able to
see those and many times we incorporate that into the
blueprints that we have on the job. So everybody has
a real good.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Idea that that's a great point. You know, it's one
thing up front to help a homeowner just you know,
design their project and visualize what it is be comfortable
with it. But for the trades that are actually going
to build this project, you know, years ago they're looking
at two dimensional plants, plans, they might get lucky and
have an elevation of a wall or something, and they
(20:04):
have to interpret those plans and hope that that's what
the designer was thinking, the homeowner was thinking. Now they're
going to get those renderings. Also, you know the plumber
is going to see that bathroom completely done and know, oh,
I got to be careful, I don't run my pipe
here because I know the electrician needs to put his
(20:25):
outlet there. You know, those types of things can make
a big difference.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Another thing that as you're talking about this that I'm
thinking about is when you're dealing with a design build
that's doing this kind of stuff, the people that are
on the job creating what the designers have designed actually
have a completely I'm going to say a higher level
skill set because they do learn to interpret the plans
(20:54):
and those interpretations of the plans that they're looking at
from job to job. The job it's not unc and
for my crew to add something in that wasn't in
the plans like that, the customers say, you know, what
would be nice next to this cabinets and I'll come
back and I'll look at it, and there they developed
that flavor. If you will, you know, it's like Dean Pipedo.
(21:14):
We always talk about one of the things Dean takes
that the pond Father. I think most of the listeners
know who I'm talking about. Over at Aquatica, he always
takes his guys to look at real waterfalls, real ponds,
and once a year they go on kind of a
hiatus where they all go. They probably have a few beer,
smoke a few cigars, and they look at waterfalls and
they get all the nuances. And when you look at
what Dean does, all those nuances are built in. It's
(21:36):
kind of the same thing with our guys because they've
been doing things so long through our designs and now
they kind of they're getting artsy too. So I think
that's the one of the advantages of dealing with a
design build is that you're not relegated to strictly what's
on paper. Sometimes there will be an idea or something
that comes up, a piece of art, you know, all
(21:59):
those kinds of things that you can make a specially
one of the things. The reason I bring that up, Chris,
is because one of the things that is in the plan,
or was in the earlier plans, was to recess and
the guys a veteran.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yep, sure, and he wanted to.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Recess one of the special flags he had into the wall, which, now,
if you think about it, you could just take that,
put it in a glass case and put it on
the wall. But when you recess it into the wall
and maybe back light around it, it really creates a
focal point, almost like a museum piece.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It makes it more important. Yeah, exactly, you know, and
to your point of you know, changes along the way,
they are always going to be. You know, somebody might
have just saw something on TV that they thought this
would be cool. I'd love to have it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Like an industrial steampunk over the pool table light, which
is which is what Larry's doing.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But very you know, we can, you know, once we
have that three D model of the project, we can
incorporate that change and let them see it before they
commit to making that change.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Or or commit to not doing That was a bit
I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Another thing that virtual running, we talked a little bit
about it earlier, is the spatial thing. When you go
down into an empty basement, it looks huge, and so
you might try to be incorporating, Oh, I want a
fitness room, I want a full bath. I want a
guest room. I want this, I want that. When you
really start to get things in there, and we can
do all that, we can put all that stuff in there,
but you'll see why it's not a good idea. And
(23:25):
I think seeing it is so much better than somebody
trying to talk you out of it, because when you
look at it and you go, yeah, it looks a
little crammed, that's awesome. Or sometimes rooms will be made
too big, so there's a lot of a lot of
tweaking that you can do. You know, if you built
this in the old days by blueprints, and I've been
in this business my whole life, I can look at
a blueprint say yeah, it looks like a nice project.
(23:46):
But when I look at renderings, it's a whole different animal.
The challenge in the past was Okay, you put up
the wall according to the blueprint, and people go, oh,
this seems a lot smaller than I thought. The only
way you're changing at is with a saws all and
a hammer. We can do it with a mouse click, yeah, exactly,
And that's such a big difference too. And the homeowners
can be engaging in that. Well, look at the deck
we're building, which is away from basements of what we're
(24:07):
talking about. How many changes have we done to that
deck on the lake?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Three four easily?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, and so but what happens is people look at
the renderings and then they go oh, and then they
come up with another idea. So they figure out what
not only what doesn't work, but what additional things they
could do, and then during the selection phase, whole other animal.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Today.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I mean, tiles range from almost the size of doors
to minuscule. I always talk about tile because it's it's
amazing when I go into you know, when when Lee's
doing selections with the customers, It's amazing the amount I
can see.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Take it their lives exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, And I think a good design build is going
to keep you in line there and then the renderings
are going to help.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
You stability to see it actually in the project.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Chris, tell us a little bit about your company. Got
about two minutes left.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Sure, I am a three D design specialist. I've been
in this business like you for thirty some years, if
not longer, so much.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Greater than so.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And I was design build like you for a very
long time. Five six years ago I've changed my focus
to design only. So I am, you know, really working
closely with you and others in that design phase, be
it remodeling or custom homes. But the ability to again
the three D is really a game changer in this industry.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Sometimes even when we're doing a zoom meeting on the fly,
you'll make change. Yes, absolutely so if someone wants to
get a hold of you, Chris Egnorant Design, just get
a hold of me there. Okay, all right, Well thanks
for coming in on Sunday spending some time. I know
you're busy, totally strowing every time I talk all the time,
even when you're away at up Indoor County, you're behind
(25:50):
your desk and I'll call you there and we go pick.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I actually love it, so it's not work to get it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, thanks for coming on. We appreciate it and we'll
have you on again obviously. Absolutely all right. News Talk
eleven thirty WISN. We will return again next week
When you need wisdom and advice. Seek out a guru.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Guru.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty WSN It's Nick the Construction grew. I'm
excited today because I have the Egbert with me, Chris
Agner from He's laughing, Uh from Chris Agner Design. I Chris,
I'm glad you came on today. I wanted to talk
a little bit about design and uh, maybe we should
talk about our relationship a little bit, how we work together,
and go ahead, talk about it here. I want to
(00:45):
see what I want to I want to see what.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You think we're doing. No, I'll be good.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Now, I've enjoyed I you know, we work together on
many types of projects. I know today we're going to
focus on specifically basements because we've been doing quite a
bit of them. But the you know, the design side
of things up front three D, so people can envision
what they're doing before we start, really give them the
opportunity to explore different options and opportunities. We'll get into
(01:13):
that a little bit more, but yeah, I mean just
really working well on the front side of a project.
The more time we spend upfront with clients, getting them
really comfortable with what they're doing, is they're the.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Project sometimes frustrated, right sure, yeah, sure, yeah, I Right
now we have a very huge, huge project going on
in Caledonia and that that basement is like a total
man cave.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Some of the some of the design features, and I
think there's some innovative design features in both of the
projects that we're working on right now. You know, the
back lit shelves and things like that. I'm gonna I'm
gonna let you talk a little bit about that and
where some of that comes from, because I know a
lot of that those cool little nuances that you incorporate
into the designs are really what takes a design from
(02:01):
very well done to.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
The wall factor, right yep.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And I think that, you know, the virtual design allows
us to see exactly how that's going to look, and
sometimes sometimes it's a little too much while for somebody too,
which is a great great testament to the virtual designing.
So the virtual design, just to explain it, and I
know We've talked so much about it on the show,
but it literally is creating photograph quality renderings of what
(02:27):
the finished project is going to look like after it's done,
Before one nail is driven, you can see what the
finished project is going to look like, and you can
make the decisions on should that cabinet, and this is
something that just happens, should that cabinet have doors on
the bottom, or should it be open shelves. Should we
have a nice linear fireplace below the TV. That was
one of the things we just conquered this week. But
(02:48):
some of these little nuances, let's talk about some of those.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, I mean that's a great point. You know that
it's one thing to lay out walls, where's the doors going?
You know, those sort of things sooner important obviously right
when we got to take into account traffic patterns or
furniture placement or how that room's going to be used.
But it's all these details that, as you said, can
(03:10):
take a project from you know, a nice lower level
family room, whatever the case may be, to you walk
in and go, oh my god, I mean that's awesome.
I never saw that. But it's it can be very
little things you mentioned like underlit shelves. You know, maybe
we're routing a groove in the back of a shelf
and that that light strip. You know, with today's LEDs,
(03:33):
we can do anything anywhere, right, but you know that
can last.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Now it's not like a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But you know that that little bit can wash a wall,
can you know, can accent whether it's the liquor bottles,
the bourbon bottles, the whatever, or some art or whatever.
But it's those little details, little shelves, little display cases,
little you know, just all kinds of details. But in
three D we can explore those options and decide a
(04:03):
do I like it, you know, does it do something
for the project? And then we can start talking about,
you know, how does that affect a budget? Is it
worth it? You know, do we want to do that
or don't we But making those decisions in three d's
a lot less expensive than you know, doing it or
not doing it during the project and wishing.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
We did absolutely And I think another thing, and this
may maybe I didn't tell you this, but the one
that we are working on right now, he just enlisted
Global Site and Sound to do the uh the TV
and all the surround sound and that's a whole other
uh deal with this because a lot of people are
just going to run into Best Buy, They're going to
(04:43):
buy a big TV, They're going to get the premates system.
Disciploy your socks off. What's going on now? And yeah,
is it more money? Yes it is. But I think
if you're going to put in a media area, and
both of the basements right now that the one that
isn't design and the one that we're working on, both
of those had large media centers. I don't want to
say home theaters because I think home theaters as a
(05:06):
dedicated space are kind of a thing of the past,
but you can incorporate theater seating and things like that
into open concepts that we did on that on the
one basement we're working on. So the cool thing is
is if you're going to put that in a basement
and you're going to create an area where it's a
media wouldn't you want to have the best right?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
You know so, so today's technology, you can hang a
sound bar on the wall and there are very good sigaries, right,
But if you're going to go to the level of
these basements we're doing right now, you know where everything
else is top of the line. You know everything, you
absolutely want that sound to go along with it.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, and I think that you know that the designs
that we're doing, I know that you're incorporating several TVs
into like the fitness area, and and so those are
the things that having a professor designer really lays out
to the point that not only the traffic patterns. You know,
a good designer is going to be able to do
traffic patterns, going to be able to do a nice layout,
but a really professional designer is going to have the
(06:10):
nuances that we're talking about. Another one is built in cabinetry,
because a lot of times you'll have a storage space
adjacent to the area you're going to finish. That's an
excellent place to build in a storage that that's flush
on the finished wall and goes in a little bit
into the storage wall and it doesn't take any space,
so you can create all kinds of cool storage yep. Ye.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
And you know you mentioned you know, design, good design, whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
One thing I want to really be sensitive of is,
you know, I see my role as not to tell you,
mister homeowner, this is what you should do with your house.
My role is spending time learning what do you want
this space to look like, how do you want to
use it, who's going to use it, and kind of
taking what you hope it to be. And my role
(06:57):
is to help you visualize what it could be, but
make sure it functions and does it. You know, we
can all create really beautiful stuff, but if it doesn't
function well, also you missed the mark.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I agree with you, but I've been in this business
long enough to see where, you know what. I've seen
things that were supposed to be. We're very expensive and
we're supposed to work out well and they didn't, right,
you know, And unfortunately most of the companies even today,
they aren't. They aren't using virtual design to the depth
(07:32):
that we are, and what happens there is those nuances
sometimes get lost. And I think that if you can
see it. A lot of times you'll look at I
mean there's a lot of times we'll look at a
design and someone will say I like this, this and this,
but that sucks. I don't like that, and you know what,
you can make that decision. I think working with a
professional designer. You know how many times have we talked
(07:54):
people off the ledge where they're ready to make a
bad decision. Here's why this is a bad decision, and
then show them to be able to show them and
they go, oh yeah, you know, and the basement that's
being designed right now? What what floor plan are we
actually on? Is it the third or fourth?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I think the third in a couple of tweaks, but
you know it's evolved. And again this is you know here,
you know, based on what you kind of explained you
want to do with it. This would be a great
layout and has it. But what if we did this
and exploring it in three D is a lot better
than us framing up all the walls and looking at
(08:34):
it and going, I wanted what if we did this?
It's much more expensive at that point to make a change.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And you know another thing that that I think virtual
design helps save marriages. Right, okay, so let's just talk
about you know, we were on a zoom call not
so long ago, and what what did the what did
the fellas say about the designs we were on our
four I think our four set.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, that he loved all of them. He would have
he would have got started on any any one of.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Them would have been fine.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And they were all excellent. It was just really when
when Mama came in, it was like she was visualizing
using it. I think as men we visualized.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Look at it just right exactly. And to that point,
you know, the four different floor plans, and they all
were great, and they all they're not a right and
a wrong. There are certain things that we will as
you just said, you know, somebody might say what I'd
like to do this, and we may explain to them,
based on experience and everything else, here's why you might
not want to do that, and here's why. And ultimately,
(09:37):
you know, it's your home, make the decision. But but
to the point, the four designs we did on the
one we're working through now, every one of them were great.
They just did certain things differently.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And actually every one of them met the criteria that
was but.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Differently right exactly, And then you start deciding priorities. You
know what, I see this space being used more than
that space, so let you know, let's take some something
away from one and put it somewhere else. Those types
of things.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I think the you know, one of the things
we'll talk about after break. I want to go through
is kind of what is the process that people go
through before before the design. I mean, what is a
conversation that we have, How do we what kind of
questions are we asking the homeowners?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
What are you looking for? You know.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
One of the things that I came up with long
ago from a customer is they had they were in
the city and they didn't have a landing spot for
the kids. And that's when they did the rec room downstairs.
And we designed that rec room so that it could
grow with the family, because eventually what they wanted to
do was contain the kids. So they created a really
(10:46):
cool area where everybody wanted to be and that way
they knew where their kids were. But as time went on,
they knew that was they were going to grow out
of that. So a lot of the things that they
did were changeable in the future. Areas that were, you know,
maybe a bedroom for sleepovers now became a craft room.
You know, the bathrooms were set up with showers that
(11:06):
so down the line, areas became guest rooms, things like that.
And I think that's another thing that virtual do. You
can actually see what that's going to look like in
virtual design.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Here it is is a craft room, here it is
a bedroom.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
You know what, how do we address an egress window?
A lot of times people are you know, that's that's
another focal point sometimes an egress window and where that's
put and how it's designed is another important factor. I
think in a lot of designs sometimes you're stuck. You
got to put it here. But the reality, if it
is is a good designer is going to have the
best place in mind for those kinds of things too.
(11:42):
A lot of large kitchens and some and kitchenettes and others.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, and again that goes back to you know, and
we'll get into this after the break, but you know
what are we discussing up front before we start actually
creating those designs, And it's all about how do you
see yourself using this space? Is this you and the family?
Is it you know, fifteen twenty people coming through for
a packer game. You know, how do you see this?
And that's going to help determine those decisions.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, Chris, we're going to take a short break when
we come back. Let's talk about the process first. You know,
when people sit down at the table for the first
time and talk about design, what types of questions are asked?
And then we'll talk about some of the other things
that you just brought up. We're going to take a
short break and we will return after these messages on
news Talk eleven thirty WISN Just Talk eleven thirty WCEN
(12:36):
returning from break. It's Nick the construction Guru.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
If you're thinking about a remodeling project, every single show,
every single time I say you should get a few opinions,
make one of those ours. We'd love to come out
and talk to you about a new rec room. That's
what we're talking about today, Kitchen Bathroom Edition. You can
reach us on the worldwide web at Kurzonerinc dot com.
Give us a call at kurson Will. We will treat
your home as if it were our own. Sometimes I
(12:58):
can't even see our own.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
You've only done it for how many years?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I know, it's so anyway, if you're just tuning
in prior to break, we were talking about we're talking
with Chris Agner from Chris Agnor Design, who works in
concert with Curzon and Remodeling on projects, and we are
talking today about those lower levels. One of the benefits
of doing a lower level is you already own the
real estate. You don't have to put on any additions.
(13:23):
For the most part, the mechanicals are usually usually done
or close to being where we can use them. So
it is you lose a little storage, but you know what,
I think junk expanse to the to the amount of
space have. So you know that's an area that you
go down there and you go, I can't even imagine
(13:43):
this being a living space. I would ask you to
go to our website take a look at some of them.
We have award winning projects on there right now. Chris
and I decided to do this show today because we
have one major project in the works right now, and
we're working on another major project that we put together
about I would say three four months ago. It was
(14:04):
a long time in design and talking about the magic
of virtual design, which is cat on steroids. I always
call it, Chris, let's let's talk about the process. When
a person goes down into their basement and shoes away
the cobwebs and kicks the old erector sets and hockey
equipment out of the way, says what am I going
(14:25):
to do with this? That's where we really come in
and say, you have a beautiful canvas here. For this
reason let's talk about a little bit of that.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Suh sure.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
So you know, we talked a little bit about earlier that,
you know, getting an idea of not only what someone
wants this to look like, but more importantly, how do
they see themselves using it? And you just were talking
earlier about using it today, and how do you see
yourself using it five years from now or ten years
from now. A lot of times, you know where that's
(14:54):
that's part of this process, but early on it's it's
really just lots of questions. You know, how do you
know someone may have friends or family that have a
remodeled lower level or a family room, so they've got
some ideas there, or they've been on houser Pinterest and
they've got ideas from there. But a lot of times
it's all ideas all over the board, and our role
(15:17):
is going to help kind of decide what fits with aid,
your style and how you see yourself using this space,
and then we can start that design process. But it's
a very interactive process. In other words, we're going to
gather all kinds of information. We're going to start with
what we're going to call kind of a first draft,
and then together with the homeowners. We're going to be
(15:38):
reviewing that, and they're going to go I like that,
I love that. I'm not sure I like that, I
hate that. And this process just evolves revisions. There are
things that will come up through the design process that
a homeowner never even thought they wanted, and all of
a sudden, they see, as you said, it used to
be all the storage down there. They can't even envision
what it could be. And as the design starts to
(16:00):
develop in three D where they're seeing it, all of
a sudden, it's like, Ooh, I didn't realize we had
that much space over there. What if we did this,
this or this?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Sometimes I think that the idea to take the lower
level the basement area and culminates from a necessity because
maybe you have an aging parent that's coming and you're
going to put a room in, or maybe there's a
third child and you're going to put the oldest one downstairs,
so you want to start out with a bedroom. A
lot of times, necessity will cause people to start to
(16:33):
think about remodeling, and I think that's kind of shortsighted
sometimes because as we're talking about, you can develop that
into something that's going to serve the family for years
to come, even if that parent or that child are
no longer in that room. Right, there's things we can
do and I think that's what virtual design really shows,
how you can utilize that investment. And it's going to
(16:53):
be a large investment. Let's talk about it. Why just
have it made for a specific purpose for a few years.
Why not have something that can.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
You know, develop, Yeah, and that you know you when
we talk about that that future. Sometimes we're creating what
we'll kind of call a master plan where you know, here,
here's what we're going to do in phase one, and
as those kids get older and move on to their
own homes or what have in phase two, this space
is going to become this as you said, you know
(17:21):
this this space became a craft room or we're doing
a lot of home offices. Now you know, it's not
working from home has become such a big deal, but
it's not sitting at the kitchen table with your laptop anymore.
We're doing dedicated spaces or spaces that can be function
as one thing at you know, recreation type thing, but
(17:42):
an office during the day. So there's a lot of
that that goes into there's even specific furniture exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And I think a lot of times and again, you know,
we when we do our virtual renderings, I think one
of the things that we don't bring up enough is
that we do put the furniture in the exactly, we
do put the rugs, we do all of that kind
of stuff, and sometimes people are really sticklers. I've had
people called out, where'd you get that the rendering and sometimes,
(18:10):
you know, sometimes you don't because they're library items. But
I think it helps with spatial you know, the perspective exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
You know, it's just the flow that you know, is
there enough room between that chair and that table for
people to walk through? You know, all those things that
those you talked early on about the details, those are
the details. You know, there are there are guidelines in
remodeling or home construction or designer layout we want always
there this wide or whatever. But there's a lot more
(18:41):
to it. You know. Somebody might have a piece of
furniture specifically that they want We've had that, oh absolutely,
and we're going to design the room around that piece
of furniture. Well, in three D we can create either
exactly that piece of furniture or very close to it
and physically sized exactly, so we can start laying things
out that way and then helping them envision things again.
(19:03):
You know, we have the ability to literally take a
picture of their backyard and have that be the image
out the windows from this space, so they can really
see what what is this.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Going to look like?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Well, I've had I've had people look at renderings that
have gone through and I know it's faster now, but
several hours of what we know ray tracing, and they
look at it and I go, so this is what
they say. They think that's a picture of the project,
and it's actually a rendering. You know, the software today
it freaks me out, and it's getting better every day,
(19:33):
always you and so you're going to be able to
see those and many times we incorporate that into the
blueprints that we have on the job. So everybody has
a real good.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Idea that that's a great point. You know, it's one
thing up front to help a homeowner just you know,
design their project and visualize what it is be comfortable
with it. But for the trades that are actually going
to build this project, you know, years ago they're looking
at two dimensional plants, plans, they might get lucky and
have an elevation of a wall or something, and they
(20:04):
have to interpret those plans and hope that that's what
the designer was thinking, the homeowner was thinking. Now they're
going to get those renderings. Also, you know the plumber
is going to see that bathroom completely done and know, oh,
I got to be careful, I don't run my pipe
here because I know the electrician needs to put his
(20:25):
outlet there. You know, those types of things can make
a big difference.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Another thing that as you're talking about this that I'm
thinking about is when you're dealing with a design build
that's doing this kind of stuff, the people that are
on the job creating what the designers have designed actually
have a completely I'm going to say a higher level
skill set because they do learn to interpret the plans
(20:54):
and those interpretations of the plans that they're looking at
from job to job. The job it's not unc and
for my crew to add something in that wasn't in
the plans like that, the customers say, you know, what
would be nice next to this cabinets and I'll come
back and I'll look at it, and there they developed
that flavor. If you will, you know, it's like Dean Pipedo.
(21:14):
We always talk about one of the things Dean takes
that the pond Father. I think most of the listeners
know who I'm talking about. Over at Aquatica, he always
takes his guys to look at real waterfalls, real ponds,
and once a year they go on kind of a
hiatus where they all go. They probably have a few beer,
smoke a few cigars, and they look at waterfalls and
they get all the nuances. And when you look at
what Dean does, all those nuances are built in. It's
(21:36):
kind of the same thing with our guys because they've
been doing things so long through our designs and now
they kind of they're getting artsy too. So I think
that's the one of the advantages of dealing with a
design build is that you're not relegated to strictly what's
on paper. Sometimes there will be an idea or something
that comes up, a piece of art, you know, all
(21:59):
those kinds of things that you can make a specially
one of the things. The reason I bring that up, Chris,
is because one of the things that is in the plan,
or was in the earlier plans, was to recess and
the guys a veteran.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yep, sure, and he wanted to.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Recess one of the special flags he had into the wall, which, now,
if you think about it, you could just take that,
put it in a glass case and put it on
the wall. But when you recess it into the wall
and maybe back light around it, it really creates a
focal point, almost like a museum piece.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It makes it more important. Yeah, exactly, you know, and
to your point of you know, changes along the way,
they are always going to be. You know, somebody might
have just saw something on TV that they thought this
would be cool. I'd love to have it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Like an industrial steampunk over the pool table light, which
is which is what Larry's doing.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But very you know, we can, you know, once we
have that three D model of the project, we can
incorporate that change and let them see it before they
commit to making that change.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Or or commit to not doing That was a bit
I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Another thing that virtual running, we talked a little bit
about it earlier, is the spatial thing. When you go
down into an empty basement, it looks huge, and so
you might try to be incorporating, Oh, I want a
fitness room, I want a full bath. I want a
guest room. I want this, I want that. When you
really start to get things in there, and we can
do all that, we can put all that stuff in there,
but you'll see why it's not a good idea. And
(23:25):
I think seeing it is so much better than somebody
trying to talk you out of it, because when you
look at it and you go, yeah, it looks a
little crammed, that's awesome. Or sometimes rooms will be made
too big, so there's a lot of a lot of
tweaking that you can do. You know, if you built
this in the old days by blueprints, and I've been
in this business my whole life, I can look at
a blueprint say yeah, it looks like a nice project.
(23:46):
But when I look at renderings, it's a whole different animal.
The challenge in the past was Okay, you put up
the wall according to the blueprint, and people go, oh,
this seems a lot smaller than I thought. The only
way you're changing at is with a saws all and
a hammer. We can do it with a mouse click, yeah, exactly,
And that's such a big difference too. And the homeowners
can be engaging in that. Well, look at the deck
we're building, which is away from basements of what we're
(24:07):
talking about. How many changes have we done to that
deck on the lake?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Three four easily?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, and so but what happens is people look at
the renderings and then they go oh, and then they
come up with another idea. So they figure out what
not only what doesn't work, but what additional things they
could do, and then during the selection phase, whole other animal.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Today.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I mean, tiles range from almost the size of doors
to minuscule. I always talk about tile because it's it's
amazing when I go into you know, when when Lee's
doing selections with the customers, It's amazing the amount I
can see.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Take it their lives exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, And I think a good design build is going
to keep you in line there and then the renderings
are going to help.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
You stability to see it actually in the project.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Chris, tell us a little bit about your company. Got
about two minutes left.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Sure, I am a three D design specialist. I've been
in this business like you for thirty some years, if
not longer, so much.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Greater than so.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And I was design build like you for a very
long time. Five six years ago I've changed my focus
to design only. So I am, you know, really working
closely with you and others in that design phase, be
it remodeling or custom homes. But the ability to again
the three D is really a game changer in this industry.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Sometimes even when we're doing a zoom meeting on the fly,
you'll make change. Yes, absolutely so if someone wants to
get a hold of you, Chris Egnorant Design, just get
a hold of me there. Okay, all right, Well thanks
for coming in on Sunday spending some time. I know
you're busy, totally strowing every time I talk all the time,
even when you're away at up Indoor County, you're behind
(25:50):
your desk and I'll call you there and we go pick.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I actually love it, so it's not work to get it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, thanks for coming on. We appreciate it and we'll
have you on again obviously. Absolutely all right. News Talk
eleven thirty WISN. We will return again next week
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