January 12, 2026 • 26 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you need wisdom and advice.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seek out a guru.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Gluu.
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner, Newstock eleven.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thirty wis and Nick the Construction Girl. I forgot who
I was for a minute there, because it's a new
year and we're excited about all the projects we're doing
and happy to be back on. We had a little
hiatus there for a while. We're running a couple of reruns,
but we're back in black and I have my beautiful
wife here. Today. We were going to talk a little
bit about the process you go through after you sign
(00:43):
the contract in a remodeling project, and the impetus for
that is basically that we've had a couple of customers
who had unrealistic expectations, and so we want to talk
to you about that. If you're thinking about a remodeling project,
if you're even entertaining it, I think you need to
underst stand the process that you're going to go through,
because it's it's not really what you expect, is it? Say? Hi,
(01:07):
LND that to everybody in.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
The morning, Happy New Year.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So we're finding that a lot of people have unrealistic
expectations when it comes to remodeling projects. And we've talked
about it before on the show with the HGTV Effects.
And I really want to blame Jeff Bezols said Amazon,
because whether or not you like Jeff Bezos, Amazon does
(01:30):
a hell of a job getting things to the house.
I know, did we wait for anything for Christmas? We
got everything on time, didn't we?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
A few things said they were delayed and when we
had the storms, but they actually still made it in time.
So they told us it wasn't going to be there,
which I was kind of bummed for a few things,
but they actually made it. So I think, you know,
like you say to air on being Yeah, what is
that turn? When do you say I'd rather be than
(01:57):
a chump? What's the same usay.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh, I'd rather be a hero than a chunel.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, so you usually get a longer.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Than a nail.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think that was a famous song. Greg remember that
he's old enough. But anyway, the reality is is that
and I know that a lot of the listeners out
there are going to agree with me. If if Amazon
tells you that something's going to be there, say on Wednesday,
and I've had this discussion on the show before, but
it's going to be there on Wednesday, even if you
(02:24):
don't need it. You know, for me, it's like motorcycle
parts or something like that. I can't get to doing
that until the weekend because you know the job, the
demands of the job. But if it's not there on Wednesday,
I'm mad because they said it was going to be
there on Wednesday. And so we've really created these unrealistic expectations,
you know, especially with the newer generations, immediate gratification. Got
(02:46):
to get it right away. If it's not there on time,
you're mad. And in the remodeling business, that doesn't work.
It just doesn't work. So one of the things that
you have to realize when you're doing a remodeling project
that and I don't care what the companies say out there,
nobody does everything. I know that there's people who in
the past have said we don't use any subcontractors. I'm
(03:06):
going to tell you it's a lie. They do use subcontractors.
They have to because it's the only way that you
know it would work. Dollar wise, you can't have plumbers
and electricians on staff at your company and pay their
downtime and not have that affect your bottom line and
affect your price margins. So in order to stay competitive,
we do use subcontractors like plumbers and electricians. People who
(03:28):
are in skilled trades. The wisest among us are using
the same people all the time. So it's not like
we're shopping three different electricians to do your project. We're using,
you know, trusted electric to do I'm giving a shot
off to Jeff see such a such a great guy
and does such a good job for us.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
But so let me just let me just say something.
Every business has subcontractors. If you go to hospital when
you get radiology, they're usually independent. They're just have like
privileges and then you're build for their services. Then you're
getting built from the hospital for the service of the
use of the machinery. It's no different in different industries.
(04:09):
We just don't look at it like that. So you know,
it's supposed to become sound negative, but everywhere there's some
sort of we don't call subcontracting all the time in
different industries, but it happens. It's not unusual in every
aspect of business.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
In order to stay competitive. You have to do that
because it opens up the field for the electricians to
do other projects rather than just depend on say cursion
and or remodeling and construction or any other company. So
that comes with a set of challenges as well. You know,
a lot of times the best of us will estimate
that it's going to take a day or two to
(04:45):
do a pro a project, and maybe you run into something, Well,
you're not going to leave that project halfway downe and
move on to the next one. So sometimes there's delays
that can be disheartening if you're suffering from Amazon effect
because you're planning on having electrician there to move on
to the next phase of your remodeling project and it
gets set behind, and people have this this uncanny, weird
(05:07):
thought that well, you know, they just kind of bounce
around to get their draws, and maybe some companies do,
but for us, we have to wait for inspections. We're
at the mercy of the building inspectors. We have to
wait for sometimes subcontractors. If we have an emergency at
a home where you have water, fire or electricity problems,
those have to take precedent over everything else. And you
(05:29):
know what gets me so much, Linn, is that we
explain this to people up front, that this is how
it's going to be, and somewhere along the line they
get the ideas that maybe they're in control of what
we're doing. And you know, I've said it a dozen
times and I know you've heard it when I'm dealing
with customers. This isn't burger king. You don't get it
your way. We're going to do it our way at
(05:50):
Sarah Lee. If you don't like the way we do it,
go to entimens and not trying to be jerky, but
you have to be a control freak in this business
in order to run it right because there's going to
be a lot of excuses with different products, a lot
of cabinetry, I mean cabinetry. We were running four weeks
I think now we're running six to eight, right, Yeah,
And you can't control that. It's supply and demand. Windows.
(06:14):
I think we have the best windows in the market.
I really do there in my house. They're any friend
that's ever asked me to do replacement windows, I think
we have the best. It's a family run company that
does it. They take their time. Ninety eight percent of
what they put out we never have service on, but
they're sixteen to eighteen weeks out, and so a lot
(06:35):
of companies are choosing to go with the suppliers that
can get the products faster, with maybe some compromise on
the quality. And that's really frustrating too, because you know,
when people start to think, hey, it's taking an awful
long time to get our windows, they start calling other
companies and say, well, how long would it take to
get your windows? And it makes us look kind of
(06:55):
makes us look like bad guys. But we're waiting for
the quality, you know. So there's been some delays in
the business. And that's if we had I think, if
there was any one big complaint in twenty twenty five,
it was why is this taking so long? And you know,
much to our credit, we've finished every job last year,
(07:19):
with the exception of I think two ahead of schedule.
But when you give people, you know, your schedule, and
you say one hundred and one hundred and two days
to do this job, that's business days, and when they
don't see somebody there for three days because maybe we're
waiting for an inspection, maybe we're waiting for the company
to come pick up the dumpster. Maybe we're waiting for
(07:40):
you know, cabinets. They think, why aren't they here? And
this is why it's taking so long to do all this,
And in reality, that's all figured into your starting and
completion dates. And I mean there's been a lot of
jaw dropping last year where people were saying, why is
it taking so long? And then we said, you know,
we're sixty three days. I had a schedule, right, So
you know, our frustration a little bit has been with
(08:01):
this immediate gratification stuff. And another thing that I tell people,
what do they say, good, fast or cheap?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
You can have you can pick two of them, and
I'd rather have it good, you know, and fast and
cheap are just you're not going to get the quality.
And when you're dealing with the investments today, what's the
average house today costing? What do you no idea about
four hundred thousand? Okay? And you know, and I'm not
(08:30):
trying to sound crass here, but the reality of it
is is that when you get to be our age
and we're going to move, it's for a house that's
at least compatible with what you have. It's I'm seeing
seven to fifty seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars used
to be like a mansion. Today it's above average home.
Why would you want to rush the people that are
(08:52):
going to be doing the craftsmanship and working on your home?
And why wouldn't you trust that when they give you
the amount of time it's going to take, that that's
what it's going to take. And it's so frustrating, right Yeah.
So now the other funny thing about that is we
probably have four or five projects that are going to
(09:12):
be entered into the Remodeler of the Year awards next
year because we believe that they are going to take
gold awards. Are they are that good? And so you know,
the results will speak for themselves, and I'll report on
that after next January to let people know what has happened.
But the bottom line is, you know, we have we
do have over seventy five national, regional, and local awards
(09:36):
for our work and that's all based on, you know,
the cost of the job. So in other words, you're
not going to put up a five hundred thousand dollars
job against the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Let's
take kitchen as a category you know, the two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars kitchens are not going to be
set against the five hundred thousand dollar kitchens because obviously
(09:57):
there's a there's a big disparagement in the cost of
the project. We're running with, you know, projects in the
same budget range, and it's based on craftsmanship, that ability
to stay within budget. And of course you know, the
design and new and of the innovative designs are coming
up all the time. We have obligation to keep up
(10:17):
with that. I think we use one of the best
designers in the business, Chris Agner. He is consistently winning
awards for his work and he's very He's a workaholic, right.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, I mean this guy and he's collaborative with the customer,
tries to make their vision but also make it make sense.
And I think that's the thing with any design, anything
you're doing, is you want to bring their vision and
their function that they're trying to achieve, but you also
have to tell them when it's not it doesn't make sense,
and sometimes it can't see. You know, people don't have
(10:52):
always the vision. That's where they do that. You know,
you guys do the architect plans and the three D renderings.
But I think customers just need to be informed and
I think that's kind of what we're talking about, is
what to expect, but also kind of to trust the
process and trust that it may take a little longer.
(11:14):
But it would be like if you go to the
doctor and you get an unfortunate diagnosis of something terrible,
you're not going to just go, okay, let's let's You're
going to take some time and due diligence and educate yourself.
And I think there's a responsibility to the consumer and
the clients that we have that you know, yes, we're
going to tell you a lot, and we do go
through a lengthy process before we even do one hammer
(11:38):
in the wall and have been criticized right right, why
is it taking so long for us to explain? And
again I understand it. When you want something, you get
impatient and you're excited. And it's great that the excitement too.
You know, they've been saving for a long time, you know,
whatever the case may be, but that time upfront, it
(11:59):
really is critical not only to set expectations, make sure
the project is what they want, so not midway they're
going you know what we thought there was me a
window here and you know, and then you know everything
has to change. So there is that upfront, but they
also need to educate themselves to understand the process, and
not by watching HGTV necessarily. Again, I love HGTV. I
(12:22):
binge on it because I just like seeing before and
after and getting ideas and seeing some artistic things because
that's what I'm doing now. But to really understand processes,
and if I always say, every job that you have,
and this is just me personally, is to understand everybody
else that you're working with, whether you know, whatever it is.
If it's a plumber that I work with, I want
(12:43):
to know enough to know his processes. I'm not saying
to become a plumber, but if I understand what he's doing,
it makes it easier for me to see when I
anything falls through on my side, you know what I mean,
Because we're all related expect you know, we work together,
so if one thing failed on my side, it's going
to throw him off. It's a snowballing effect.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So let's talk some more about this and then we'll
get into the like I said, the process of what
you should expect when you get into remodeling projects so
that at least you have an idea of why it
takes the time it does. We're going to take a
short break and talk about continue talking about the remodeling
process after these messages. If you just talk eleven thirty
(13:26):
wisn returning from break. It's Nick the construction Guru. Listen
if you're thinking about a project, We're going to be
talking about projects in a couple of minutes and tell
you what to expect at least from our company. But
give us a call. We'd love to come out and
talk about a new rec room, a kitchen. An addition,
Kursner is the only company in Wisconsin to win a
(13:46):
Better Business Bureau Torture Award for Ethics and Integrity three times.
We also have over seventy five national, regional, and local
awards for our business. So you're in good hands with us.
Give us a call at two six 's two five
six seven twenty five hundred, or you can reach us
on the worldwide web at Cursonerinc. Dot com. That's k
e r z n e r i n C dot com.
(14:07):
At Kursoner, we will treat your home as if it
was our own. If you're just tuning in. I have
my wife with me, who is our selection expert over
at Cursioner Remodeling Construction. Your job was kind of born
out of a necessity to create an individual whose sole
responsibility was to help people and guide them through their selections.
(14:28):
And I think now that you've been in it for
over a year, right, it hasn't been a.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Year, no, no, no, not quite, but it.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Feels it feels.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Like five years. I don't know if that's good or pass.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So, you know, it's funny when we talk about expectations,
you know, I think when you started this, one of
the things that you know, you've said several times on
the show that you've been very involved in remodeling projects
both on our properties and and prior to that that
you know, it's a fun process to pick out your
things and do all of that. But that's all changed
(14:59):
with the onslaught of millions of products, and I think
you had a little bit different idea of what this
job is going to be. Like the frustration now that
you're going through with trying to pick things for different
customers and guide them through with budgetary all of that.
It's it's challenging, isn't it. Yes, yeah, expand on that
(15:21):
a little bit. What are you experiencing as far as
you know, you go into these showrooms and you know
you got five thousand and I'm not exaggerating at all, right,
I mean flor in the court five thousand products? Is
that fair? Sure?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And then you can go on the internet and look
at stuff too. I mean there's all online shopping, which
you know can be more cost effective. It can be
a little easier in some respects because they're not travel
time and you know, it's just I do in multiple ways.
But I think the I think the part that's hard
for me is when I'm doing it for myself. I
(15:53):
know what my budget is, Okay, in my head, I
know it's a drop dead number for me. I know
my vision. I'm trying to pull that out of someone
unless they show me a picture say I want this,
you know, and and sometimes that's the case. But sometimes
they know what they kind of want a style, you know,
they want to keep it, you know, in the same
(16:13):
class like traditional in their home or whatever. Maybe they
want to do something completely different, but I need to
like identify that, you know, get drill it down to
the exact thing, because sometimes it's like, oh, I want
a sconce well, and I want it to be brass. Okay,
there's a lot of brass, you know. Again, and then
budgetary so and then to fit it in budgets. So
(16:34):
it's it's like filter, filter, filter, filter, you know, and
that's what you do in your head where you're filtering
it out and and and sometimes you're a spot on
with what they see. But again you don't know what
it's like someone trying to explain their dream.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
To you, or they choose something and you put it,
you put it down in writing, and you have it
done in writing, and then a day later they call it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I was on pins right right, or I saw in
this place's house, or you know, I was at my
neighbor's So yes, I mean, and it's fine because you
want them to want what they have and what they
you know, what they really expect. But it is difficult
because there is so many options. And that's the thing
is to really not only make them pick something that
they like, but be okay with it, not like change
(17:14):
your mind, because you're always going to have some sort
of remorse going, oh, I could have done it this way.
But that's always a case you're never going to get
away from that no matter.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
What with all the products that are out there. And
I think you know.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's changing there, I mean the ever evolving I know changes,
and you don't want to do too much trendy stuff.
You can, but you'd be changing it yearly. If that's
what you want to do, you can, But I'm more
of a classic. You know, Let's pick something that's going
to stand the test of time for you but still
be relevant and different than what you had well, and I.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Think you know part of the challenge with selections and design,
which is where we start in the process. So just
to try and get this on track here, that's where
we really start. We'll come up with our idea of
what you should have. And I say that because I
really don't want to know what you want one hundred
percent at this point, because it stifles the creativity of
the designer. So what we want to do is you say, hey,
(18:08):
I want to I want to be traditional, I want
to be mid century modern, I want to be industrial whatever, whatever.
Give us that thought and let us come up with
the first design. That process typically takes, and we don't
rush it. We don't push people to get this done.
I want you to take as much time as you
need and research as much as you do, because you're
going to spend a lot of money doing this, and
you're going to spend a lot of time and we
want a good result. So when you get to that point,
(18:32):
that takes about I would say, on average, three to
four weeks to get through the design process, sometimes much
longer than that. If we have a really involved customer.
After that, then we're going to we're going to try
and match the budget. Obviously, you give us a budget
before we start the design process, but as you're going through,
when you say, hey, you know, maybe I maybe I
(18:53):
want to do redo the tile in the bathroom, or
I know I've always had a shower curtain, but no
I want a heavy glass store, or you know, I
want to convert the stores to barn doors, or I
want to change the flooring to LVP. Those kinds of
things are going to happen, and we try and let
you know that, hey, you're stepping out of your budget.
It wasn't in the original scope to keep you in.
And you know, the bumpers on the alley, if you
will in Bowling right, so that you can get a strike.
(19:17):
But the bottom line is is that that's a process
that we have to go through and there's going to
be some compromises. You're going to have to put some
things on the scale, take some things off the scale
to meet your budget. And again, we don't rush people
through that, so they you know, a lot of times
we'll hear you know we started this like in July.
Well yeah, but we're not going to push you into
what you know, We're not going to convince you to
do a black car because those are the ones on
(19:37):
the lot. If you want a red.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Car and let me just jump in and you can
talk about step by step. They're like, well, why don't
you just start demoing? Oh god, and it's like you
want your okay, so it's a kitchen. You want us
to demo your kitchen and take out everything so you
have no kitchen. Basically, while we get everything else done,
we try to eliminate the amount of time you're without
(19:59):
whatever that room is, especially a kitchen or bathroom, because
those are critical. I mean, a living room. Maybe maybe
you can you know, LIU without for a while, but
we don't want to start that because we want to
have every all the ducks in a row, all the cabinets.
Like we know the cap Star eight weeks, We're not
gonna start demoing your cabinets until four weeks out because
you know, there's other stuff that has to happen, which
Nick's going to kind of talk about once you get
(20:20):
the cabinets out, Electrical things like that. But why would
you want us to do that?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Downtime is basically what it is, and.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
We're trying to help that, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
To eliminate the downtright, we want all the selections made.
We want to make. Today's selections are like pieces in
a puzzle. Not all of them fit together, So we
have to know what we're up against. And that's why
we insist that all selections are done up front. So
once we get to that point and we have everybody
agrees on the on the money, everybody agrees on the colors,
everybody agrees on the design, then we schedule the demo. Okay,
(20:51):
and the demo is I always compare it to a
cruise ship. It's kind of like the day you get
on the cruise ship, you've got to had it all
planned out, You've gone through all the brochures, you've perd
just your ticket. Now you come you know, we come
to the door, we put the layer around your neck,
and you go to your cabin. After that, after the demo,
then we're going to evaluate any repairs or any kind
(21:11):
of uh, substandard framing or anything like that and correct that.
Then we are going to get the trades in there.
So the trades. Now, keep in mind, the trades have
done the walkthroughs and they already know what they're up
against and the and for the most part, so we
don't We don't just send a plumber out there with
a set of plans. They have walked through the job
and taken a look at that to see if there's
(21:32):
any any concerns with with with the architecture, depending on
age and all of those kinds of things. We don't
catch it all every time, but we're we're pretty good.
There's our Our goal is no change orders on a project.
That's our goal for many companies, that's a profit center.
For us, it's it's an absolute nightmare. We don't want
to change your price and we don't want to change
your time frames and stuff like that. So after the
(21:56):
after the electricians come in, after the plumbers come in,
your next step is going to be drywall. Now, keep
in mind that there's an inspection for each one of
these processes, and sometimes that can take three days four days. Now,
I know there's certain limitations that the building inspectors are
up against, but I'm not going to call up and
start pitching at a at a building inspector because he
(22:18):
wasn't there that day. Because the bottom line is is
these guys are working for us, and they're working for you,
so and the building is going crazy right now with
the economy the way it is, so everybody's overwhelmed after
the trades is the drywall, and I compare that on
the cruise ship to rough Water. There's been studies down
the Bell Curve at its peak is drywall. That's when
(22:41):
you're the most frustrated with the project. You finally settled
into the fact that you're going to have these strangers
in your house all the time, whether you had a
good day or a bad day at work, You're going
to have to deal with this. You're going to have
that thin layer of dust on the TV when you
go to watch Landman at night, and you know, it's
just the way it is. We try and prepare you
for that, but going through it actually is a little
bit different than talking about it. But that's where you're
(23:03):
on the cruise ship. You hit the rough water and
sometimes during drywall, people will be puking over the side
of the ship and they will call us up and
they will say, hey, what's going on here? Because we
try and control the dust, but there's going to be
dust everywhere. You know, it's going to be a major,
major thing. Any company that tells you we do dust protection,
so do we. But dust gets through, dust gets.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Into your filtration. You can't avoid it, so it's going
to get to the full house.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It's just as stupid as saying if you wear a mask,
you're not going to get COVID right, right, It's just
as stupid as that, because the particles.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Are so small, right, depositions just it's science.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Then we get into all the archy, farcy stuff, cabinets, flooring,
all of that stuff comes in and then typically we
shoot for no punch list, but typically there's what we
call a punch list where the homeowner has a day
or so to walk through and just look for anything
that we might have missed. A nick and the dry wall,
a scratch in the cabinet, something that's broken, and then
(23:59):
we take care of that and at that point we
then hand the project over to you. Another thing I
think that Warren's mentioning is you're not going to get
to use that room. Like a lot of people say,
oh well, now the cabinets are an instinction, so I
can start doing dishes. Now, you don't get to use
that room until we're done. We own that real estate
until we're done with the project contractually, because we don't
want anybody getting hurt, we don't want things getting damaged,
(24:21):
we don't want We got to make sure that everything's
plumbed correctly in all of that, and that goes in
the process. So you know, the average kitchen is taking
us I don't know one hundred and twenty business days.
Anybody that tells you something different. That is, I'm going
to tell you the worst case scenario because I'd rather
be a hero than a jump as we said earlier.
(24:42):
And the other thing I want to tell you is
that we take the time up front before you write
the check to start the project, to explain all of
this to you. We're going to have a pre construction meeting.
We're going to cover everything from dust collection to where
the guys go to the bathroom when they have to,
to where the dumpster is going to be set in
your driveway. All of those things we sit down and
talk to you about so you have realistic expectations. And
(25:04):
if you're getting unrealistic expectations from other contractors, sometimes it
makes us look like we're archaic or maybe arness. Our
expertise is less than theirs. We're very transparent with how
long it's going to take, and like I said, we
do how are we doing it for time? Here? Greg,
We're good, Yeah, wrap it up, so listen. If you
(25:24):
want to learn more about this, it doesn't cost anything
but a cup of coffee to have one of us
come out and talk to you about a project. We
can pretty much establish a budget with you, so at
least you know what you're looking at, and if you
want to go to the next steps, we can explain
all of that to you. I'm just saying, don't be
in a rush to do a remodeling project. If you're
thinking about a deck for your daughter's graduation, think about
(25:45):
it now. Don't wait till June or until you get
your tax return to do it. Because it's not going
to happen in any We can tell a story about
next on the next show, about a person who's a
dear friend of ours who somebody else do their deck.
But anyway, give us a call. Kurzner's around. Since I
think it's sixty years my dad said today, it's been
so long, I can't remember anymore because I'm in the
early stages of dementia at this point. But give us
(26:08):
a call. If you're thinking about a remodeling project, we'd
love to come out and at least talk to you
about it, and we can certainly give you some advice.
Even if you don't use us, we'd love to come
out and talk to you about it. You want to
say one more thing.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, and we're also on Facebook. You can like our
page and you can always submit questions there. You can
post we can answer them there if it's something you
would prefer. So it's at curson Er Inc. On Facebook.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Awesome. And if you want to listen to the shows
and you're at church all the time during our shows,
there's a podcast on the iHeartMedia app, so check us
out there. Nick the Construction Group, thanks for listening today.
We will return again next week on News Talk eleven
thirty WISN
When you need wisdom and advice.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seek out a guru.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Gluu.
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner, Newstock eleven.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thirty wis and Nick the Construction Girl. I forgot who
I was for a minute there, because it's a new
year and we're excited about all the projects we're doing
and happy to be back on. We had a little
hiatus there for a while. We're running a couple of reruns,
but we're back in black and I have my beautiful
wife here. Today. We were going to talk a little
bit about the process you go through after you sign
(00:43):
the contract in a remodeling project, and the impetus for
that is basically that we've had a couple of customers
who had unrealistic expectations, and so we want to talk
to you about that. If you're thinking about a remodeling project,
if you're even entertaining it, I think you need to
underst stand the process that you're going to go through,
because it's it's not really what you expect, is it? Say? Hi,
(01:07):
LND that to everybody in.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
The morning, Happy New Year.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So we're finding that a lot of people have unrealistic
expectations when it comes to remodeling projects. And we've talked
about it before on the show with the HGTV Effects.
And I really want to blame Jeff Bezols said Amazon,
because whether or not you like Jeff Bezos, Amazon does
(01:30):
a hell of a job getting things to the house.
I know, did we wait for anything for Christmas? We
got everything on time, didn't we?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
A few things said they were delayed and when we
had the storms, but they actually still made it in time.
So they told us it wasn't going to be there,
which I was kind of bummed for a few things,
but they actually made it. So I think, you know,
like you say to air on being Yeah, what is
that turn? When do you say I'd rather be than
(01:57):
a chump? What's the same usay.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh, I'd rather be a hero than a chunel.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, so you usually get a longer.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Than a nail.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think that was a famous song. Greg remember that
he's old enough. But anyway, the reality is is that
and I know that a lot of the listeners out
there are going to agree with me. If if Amazon
tells you that something's going to be there, say on Wednesday,
and I've had this discussion on the show before, but
it's going to be there on Wednesday, even if you
(02:24):
don't need it. You know, for me, it's like motorcycle
parts or something like that. I can't get to doing
that until the weekend because you know the job, the
demands of the job. But if it's not there on Wednesday,
I'm mad because they said it was going to be
there on Wednesday. And so we've really created these unrealistic expectations,
you know, especially with the newer generations, immediate gratification. Got
(02:46):
to get it right away. If it's not there on time,
you're mad. And in the remodeling business, that doesn't work.
It just doesn't work. So one of the things that
you have to realize when you're doing a remodeling project
that and I don't care what the companies say out there,
nobody does everything. I know that there's people who in
the past have said we don't use any subcontractors. I'm
(03:06):
going to tell you it's a lie. They do use subcontractors.
They have to because it's the only way that you
know it would work. Dollar wise, you can't have plumbers
and electricians on staff at your company and pay their
downtime and not have that affect your bottom line and
affect your price margins. So in order to stay competitive,
we do use subcontractors like plumbers and electricians. People who
(03:28):
are in skilled trades. The wisest among us are using
the same people all the time. So it's not like
we're shopping three different electricians to do your project. We're using,
you know, trusted electric to do I'm giving a shot
off to Jeff see such a such a great guy
and does such a good job for us.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
But so let me just let me just say something.
Every business has subcontractors. If you go to hospital when
you get radiology, they're usually independent. They're just have like
privileges and then you're build for their services. Then you're
getting built from the hospital for the service of the
use of the machinery. It's no different in different industries.
(04:09):
We just don't look at it like that. So you know,
it's supposed to become sound negative, but everywhere there's some
sort of we don't call subcontracting all the time in
different industries, but it happens. It's not unusual in every
aspect of business.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
In order to stay competitive. You have to do that
because it opens up the field for the electricians to
do other projects rather than just depend on say cursion
and or remodeling and construction or any other company. So
that comes with a set of challenges as well. You know,
a lot of times the best of us will estimate
that it's going to take a day or two to
(04:45):
do a pro a project, and maybe you run into something, Well,
you're not going to leave that project halfway downe and
move on to the next one. So sometimes there's delays
that can be disheartening if you're suffering from Amazon effect
because you're planning on having electrician there to move on
to the next phase of your remodeling project and it
gets set behind, and people have this this uncanny, weird
(05:07):
thought that well, you know, they just kind of bounce
around to get their draws, and maybe some companies do,
but for us, we have to wait for inspections. We're
at the mercy of the building inspectors. We have to
wait for sometimes subcontractors. If we have an emergency at
a home where you have water, fire or electricity problems,
those have to take precedent over everything else. And you
(05:29):
know what gets me so much, Linn, is that we
explain this to people up front, that this is how
it's going to be, and somewhere along the line they
get the ideas that maybe they're in control of what
we're doing. And you know, I've said it a dozen
times and I know you've heard it when I'm dealing
with customers. This isn't burger king. You don't get it
your way. We're going to do it our way at
(05:50):
Sarah Lee. If you don't like the way we do it,
go to entimens and not trying to be jerky, but
you have to be a control freak in this business
in order to run it right because there's going to
be a lot of excuses with different products, a lot
of cabinetry, I mean cabinetry. We were running four weeks
I think now we're running six to eight, right, Yeah,
And you can't control that. It's supply and demand. Windows.
(06:14):
I think we have the best windows in the market.
I really do there in my house. They're any friend
that's ever asked me to do replacement windows, I think
we have the best. It's a family run company that
does it. They take their time. Ninety eight percent of
what they put out we never have service on, but
they're sixteen to eighteen weeks out, and so a lot
(06:35):
of companies are choosing to go with the suppliers that
can get the products faster, with maybe some compromise on
the quality. And that's really frustrating too, because you know,
when people start to think, hey, it's taking an awful
long time to get our windows, they start calling other
companies and say, well, how long would it take to
get your windows? And it makes us look kind of
(06:55):
makes us look like bad guys. But we're waiting for
the quality, you know. So there's been some delays in
the business. And that's if we had I think, if
there was any one big complaint in twenty twenty five,
it was why is this taking so long? And you know,
much to our credit, we've finished every job last year,
(07:19):
with the exception of I think two ahead of schedule.
But when you give people, you know, your schedule, and
you say one hundred and one hundred and two days
to do this job, that's business days, and when they
don't see somebody there for three days because maybe we're
waiting for an inspection, maybe we're waiting for the company
to come pick up the dumpster. Maybe we're waiting for
(07:40):
you know, cabinets. They think, why aren't they here? And
this is why it's taking so long to do all this,
And in reality, that's all figured into your starting and
completion dates. And I mean there's been a lot of
jaw dropping last year where people were saying, why is
it taking so long? And then we said, you know,
we're sixty three days. I had a schedule, right, So
you know, our frustration a little bit has been with
(08:01):
this immediate gratification stuff. And another thing that I tell people,
what do they say, good, fast or cheap?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
You can have you can pick two of them, and
I'd rather have it good, you know, and fast and
cheap are just you're not going to get the quality.
And when you're dealing with the investments today, what's the
average house today costing? What do you no idea about
four hundred thousand? Okay? And you know, and I'm not
(08:30):
trying to sound crass here, but the reality of it
is is that when you get to be our age
and we're going to move, it's for a house that's
at least compatible with what you have. It's I'm seeing
seven to fifty seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars used
to be like a mansion. Today it's above average home.
Why would you want to rush the people that are
(08:52):
going to be doing the craftsmanship and working on your home?
And why wouldn't you trust that when they give you
the amount of time it's going to take, that that's
what it's going to take. And it's so frustrating, right Yeah.
So now the other funny thing about that is we
probably have four or five projects that are going to
(09:12):
be entered into the Remodeler of the Year awards next
year because we believe that they are going to take
gold awards. Are they are that good? And so you know,
the results will speak for themselves, and I'll report on
that after next January to let people know what has happened.
But the bottom line is, you know, we have we
do have over seventy five national, regional, and local awards
(09:36):
for our work and that's all based on, you know,
the cost of the job. So in other words, you're
not going to put up a five hundred thousand dollars
job against the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Let's
take kitchen as a category you know, the two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars kitchens are not going to be
set against the five hundred thousand dollar kitchens because obviously
(09:57):
there's a there's a big disparagement in the cost of
the project. We're running with, you know, projects in the
same budget range, and it's based on craftsmanship, that ability
to stay within budget. And of course you know, the
design and new and of the innovative designs are coming
up all the time. We have obligation to keep up
(10:17):
with that. I think we use one of the best
designers in the business, Chris Agner. He is consistently winning
awards for his work and he's very He's a workaholic, right.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, I mean this guy and he's collaborative with the customer,
tries to make their vision but also make it make sense.
And I think that's the thing with any design, anything
you're doing, is you want to bring their vision and
their function that they're trying to achieve, but you also
have to tell them when it's not it doesn't make sense,
and sometimes it can't see. You know, people don't have
(10:52):
always the vision. That's where they do that. You know,
you guys do the architect plans and the three D renderings.
But I think customers just need to be informed and
I think that's kind of what we're talking about, is
what to expect, but also kind of to trust the
process and trust that it may take a little longer.
(11:14):
But it would be like if you go to the
doctor and you get an unfortunate diagnosis of something terrible,
you're not going to just go, okay, let's let's You're
going to take some time and due diligence and educate yourself.
And I think there's a responsibility to the consumer and
the clients that we have that you know, yes, we're
going to tell you a lot, and we do go
through a lengthy process before we even do one hammer
(11:38):
in the wall and have been criticized right right, why
is it taking so long for us to explain? And
again I understand it. When you want something, you get
impatient and you're excited. And it's great that the excitement too.
You know, they've been saving for a long time, you know,
whatever the case may be, but that time upfront, it
(11:59):
really is critical not only to set expectations, make sure
the project is what they want, so not midway they're
going you know what we thought there was me a
window here and you know, and then you know everything
has to change. So there is that upfront, but they
also need to educate themselves to understand the process, and
not by watching HGTV necessarily. Again, I love HGTV. I
(12:22):
binge on it because I just like seeing before and
after and getting ideas and seeing some artistic things because
that's what I'm doing now. But to really understand processes,
and if I always say, every job that you have,
and this is just me personally, is to understand everybody
else that you're working with, whether you know, whatever it is.
If it's a plumber that I work with, I want
(12:43):
to know enough to know his processes. I'm not saying
to become a plumber, but if I understand what he's doing,
it makes it easier for me to see when I
anything falls through on my side, you know what I mean,
Because we're all related expect you know, we work together,
so if one thing failed on my side, it's going
to throw him off. It's a snowballing effect.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So let's talk some more about this and then we'll
get into the like I said, the process of what
you should expect when you get into remodeling projects so
that at least you have an idea of why it
takes the time it does. We're going to take a
short break and talk about continue talking about the remodeling
process after these messages. If you just talk eleven thirty
(13:26):
wisn returning from break. It's Nick the construction Guru. Listen
if you're thinking about a project, We're going to be
talking about projects in a couple of minutes and tell
you what to expect at least from our company. But
give us a call. We'd love to come out and
talk about a new rec room, a kitchen. An addition,
Kursner is the only company in Wisconsin to win a
(13:46):
Better Business Bureau Torture Award for Ethics and Integrity three times.
We also have over seventy five national, regional, and local
awards for our business. So you're in good hands with us.
Give us a call at two six 's two five
six seven twenty five hundred, or you can reach us
on the worldwide web at Cursonerinc. Dot com. That's k
e r z n e r i n C dot com.
(14:07):
At Kursoner, we will treat your home as if it
was our own. If you're just tuning in. I have
my wife with me, who is our selection expert over
at Cursioner Remodeling Construction. Your job was kind of born
out of a necessity to create an individual whose sole
responsibility was to help people and guide them through their selections.
(14:28):
And I think now that you've been in it for
over a year, right, it hasn't been a.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Year, no, no, no, not quite, but it.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Feels it feels.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Like five years. I don't know if that's good or pass.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So, you know, it's funny when we talk about expectations,
you know, I think when you started this, one of
the things that you know, you've said several times on
the show that you've been very involved in remodeling projects
both on our properties and and prior to that that
you know, it's a fun process to pick out your
things and do all of that. But that's all changed
(14:59):
with the onslaught of millions of products, and I think
you had a little bit different idea of what this
job is going to be. Like the frustration now that
you're going through with trying to pick things for different
customers and guide them through with budgetary all of that.
It's it's challenging, isn't it. Yes, yeah, expand on that
(15:21):
a little bit. What are you experiencing as far as
you know, you go into these showrooms and you know
you got five thousand and I'm not exaggerating at all, right,
I mean flor in the court five thousand products? Is
that fair? Sure?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And then you can go on the internet and look
at stuff too. I mean there's all online shopping, which
you know can be more cost effective. It can be
a little easier in some respects because they're not travel
time and you know, it's just I do in multiple ways.
But I think the I think the part that's hard
for me is when I'm doing it for myself. I
(15:53):
know what my budget is, Okay, in my head, I
know it's a drop dead number for me. I know
my vision. I'm trying to pull that out of someone
unless they show me a picture say I want this,
you know, and and sometimes that's the case. But sometimes
they know what they kind of want a style, you know,
they want to keep it, you know, in the same
(16:13):
class like traditional in their home or whatever. Maybe they
want to do something completely different, but I need to
like identify that, you know, get drill it down to
the exact thing, because sometimes it's like, oh, I want
a sconce well, and I want it to be brass. Okay,
there's a lot of brass, you know. Again, and then
budgetary so and then to fit it in budgets. So
(16:34):
it's it's like filter, filter, filter, filter, you know, and
that's what you do in your head where you're filtering
it out and and and sometimes you're a spot on
with what they see. But again you don't know what
it's like someone trying to explain their dream.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
To you, or they choose something and you put it,
you put it down in writing, and you have it
done in writing, and then a day later they call it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I was on pins right right, or I saw in
this place's house, or you know, I was at my
neighbor's So yes, I mean, and it's fine because you
want them to want what they have and what they
you know, what they really expect. But it is difficult
because there is so many options. And that's the thing
is to really not only make them pick something that
they like, but be okay with it, not like change
(17:14):
your mind, because you're always going to have some sort
of remorse going, oh, I could have done it this way.
But that's always a case you're never going to get
away from that no matter.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
What with all the products that are out there. And
I think you know.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's changing there, I mean the ever evolving I know changes,
and you don't want to do too much trendy stuff.
You can, but you'd be changing it yearly. If that's
what you want to do, you can, But I'm more
of a classic. You know, Let's pick something that's going
to stand the test of time for you but still
be relevant and different than what you had well, and I.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Think you know part of the challenge with selections and design,
which is where we start in the process. So just
to try and get this on track here, that's where
we really start. We'll come up with our idea of
what you should have. And I say that because I
really don't want to know what you want one hundred
percent at this point, because it stifles the creativity of
the designer. So what we want to do is you say, hey,
(18:08):
I want to I want to be traditional, I want
to be mid century modern, I want to be industrial whatever, whatever.
Give us that thought and let us come up with
the first design. That process typically takes, and we don't
rush it. We don't push people to get this done.
I want you to take as much time as you
need and research as much as you do, because you're
going to spend a lot of money doing this, and
you're going to spend a lot of time and we
want a good result. So when you get to that point,
(18:32):
that takes about I would say, on average, three to
four weeks to get through the design process, sometimes much
longer than that. If we have a really involved customer.
After that, then we're going to we're going to try
and match the budget. Obviously, you give us a budget
before we start the design process, but as you're going through,
when you say, hey, you know, maybe I maybe I
(18:53):
want to do redo the tile in the bathroom, or
I know I've always had a shower curtain, but no
I want a heavy glass store, or you know, I
want to convert the stores to barn doors, or I
want to change the flooring to LVP. Those kinds of
things are going to happen, and we try and let
you know that, hey, you're stepping out of your budget.
It wasn't in the original scope to keep you in.
And you know, the bumpers on the alley, if you
will in Bowling right, so that you can get a strike.
(19:17):
But the bottom line is is that that's a process
that we have to go through and there's going to
be some compromises. You're going to have to put some
things on the scale, take some things off the scale
to meet your budget. And again, we don't rush people
through that, so they you know, a lot of times
we'll hear you know we started this like in July.
Well yeah, but we're not going to push you into
what you know, We're not going to convince you to
do a black car because those are the ones on
(19:37):
the lot. If you want a red.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Car and let me just jump in and you can
talk about step by step. They're like, well, why don't
you just start demoing? Oh god, and it's like you
want your okay, so it's a kitchen. You want us
to demo your kitchen and take out everything so you
have no kitchen. Basically, while we get everything else done,
we try to eliminate the amount of time you're without
(19:59):
whatever that room is, especially a kitchen or bathroom, because
those are critical. I mean, a living room. Maybe maybe
you can you know, LIU without for a while, but
we don't want to start that because we want to
have every all the ducks in a row, all the cabinets.
Like we know the cap Star eight weeks, We're not
gonna start demoing your cabinets until four weeks out because
you know, there's other stuff that has to happen, which
Nick's going to kind of talk about once you get
(20:20):
the cabinets out, Electrical things like that. But why would
you want us to do that?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Downtime is basically what it is, and.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
We're trying to help that, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
To eliminate the downtright, we want all the selections made.
We want to make. Today's selections are like pieces in
a puzzle. Not all of them fit together, So we
have to know what we're up against. And that's why
we insist that all selections are done up front. So
once we get to that point and we have everybody
agrees on the on the money, everybody agrees on the colors,
everybody agrees on the design, then we schedule the demo. Okay,
(20:51):
and the demo is I always compare it to a
cruise ship. It's kind of like the day you get
on the cruise ship, you've got to had it all
planned out, You've gone through all the brochures, you've perd
just your ticket. Now you come you know, we come
to the door, we put the layer around your neck,
and you go to your cabin. After that, after the demo,
then we're going to evaluate any repairs or any kind
(21:11):
of uh, substandard framing or anything like that and correct that.
Then we are going to get the trades in there.
So the trades. Now, keep in mind, the trades have
done the walkthroughs and they already know what they're up
against and the and for the most part, so we
don't We don't just send a plumber out there with
a set of plans. They have walked through the job
and taken a look at that to see if there's
(21:32):
any any concerns with with with the architecture, depending on
age and all of those kinds of things. We don't
catch it all every time, but we're we're pretty good.
There's our Our goal is no change orders on a project.
That's our goal for many companies, that's a profit center.
For us, it's it's an absolute nightmare. We don't want
to change your price and we don't want to change
your time frames and stuff like that. So after the
(21:56):
after the electricians come in, after the plumbers come in,
your next step is going to be drywall. Now, keep
in mind that there's an inspection for each one of
these processes, and sometimes that can take three days four days. Now,
I know there's certain limitations that the building inspectors are
up against, but I'm not going to call up and
start pitching at a at a building inspector because he
(22:18):
wasn't there that day. Because the bottom line is is
these guys are working for us, and they're working for you,
so and the building is going crazy right now with
the economy the way it is, so everybody's overwhelmed after
the trades is the drywall, and I compare that on
the cruise ship to rough Water. There's been studies down
the Bell Curve at its peak is drywall. That's when
(22:41):
you're the most frustrated with the project. You finally settled
into the fact that you're going to have these strangers
in your house all the time, whether you had a
good day or a bad day at work, You're going
to have to deal with this. You're going to have
that thin layer of dust on the TV when you
go to watch Landman at night, and you know, it's
just the way it is. We try and prepare you
for that, but going through it actually is a little
bit different than talking about it. But that's where you're
(23:03):
on the cruise ship. You hit the rough water and
sometimes during drywall, people will be puking over the side
of the ship and they will call us up and
they will say, hey, what's going on here? Because we
try and control the dust, but there's going to be
dust everywhere. You know, it's going to be a major,
major thing. Any company that tells you we do dust protection,
so do we. But dust gets through, dust gets.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Into your filtration. You can't avoid it, so it's going
to get to the full house.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It's just as stupid as saying if you wear a mask,
you're not going to get COVID right, right, It's just
as stupid as that, because the particles.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Are so small, right, depositions just it's science.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Then we get into all the archy, farcy stuff, cabinets, flooring,
all of that stuff comes in and then typically we
shoot for no punch list, but typically there's what we
call a punch list where the homeowner has a day
or so to walk through and just look for anything
that we might have missed. A nick and the dry wall,
a scratch in the cabinet, something that's broken, and then
(23:59):
we take care of that and at that point we
then hand the project over to you. Another thing I
think that Warren's mentioning is you're not going to get
to use that room. Like a lot of people say,
oh well, now the cabinets are an instinction, so I
can start doing dishes. Now, you don't get to use
that room until we're done. We own that real estate
until we're done with the project contractually, because we don't
want anybody getting hurt, we don't want things getting damaged,
(24:21):
we don't want We got to make sure that everything's
plumbed correctly in all of that, and that goes in
the process. So you know, the average kitchen is taking
us I don't know one hundred and twenty business days.
Anybody that tells you something different. That is, I'm going
to tell you the worst case scenario because I'd rather
be a hero than a jump as we said earlier.
(24:42):
And the other thing I want to tell you is
that we take the time up front before you write
the check to start the project, to explain all of
this to you. We're going to have a pre construction meeting.
We're going to cover everything from dust collection to where
the guys go to the bathroom when they have to,
to where the dumpster is going to be set in
your driveway. All of those things we sit down and
talk to you about so you have realistic expectations. And
(25:04):
if you're getting unrealistic expectations from other contractors, sometimes it
makes us look like we're archaic or maybe arness. Our
expertise is less than theirs. We're very transparent with how
long it's going to take, and like I said, we
do how are we doing it for time? Here? Greg,
We're good, Yeah, wrap it up, so listen. If you
(25:24):
want to learn more about this, it doesn't cost anything
but a cup of coffee to have one of us
come out and talk to you about a project. We
can pretty much establish a budget with you, so at
least you know what you're looking at, and if you
want to go to the next steps, we can explain
all of that to you. I'm just saying, don't be
in a rush to do a remodeling project. If you're
thinking about a deck for your daughter's graduation, think about
(25:45):
it now. Don't wait till June or until you get
your tax return to do it. Because it's not going
to happen in any We can tell a story about
next on the next show, about a person who's a
dear friend of ours who somebody else do their deck.
But anyway, give us a call. Kurzner's around. Since I
think it's sixty years my dad said today, it's been
so long, I can't remember anymore because I'm in the
early stages of dementia at this point. But give us
(26:08):
a call. If you're thinking about a remodeling project, we'd
love to come out and at least talk to you
about it, and we can certainly give you some advice.
Even if you don't use us, we'd love to come
out and talk to you about it. You want to
say one more thing.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, and we're also on Facebook. You can like our
page and you can always submit questions there. You can
post we can answer them there if it's something you
would prefer. So it's at curson Er Inc. On Facebook.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Awesome. And if you want to listen to the shows
and you're at church all the time during our shows,
there's a podcast on the iHeartMedia app, so check us
out there. Nick the Construction Group, thanks for listening today.
We will return again next week on News Talk eleven
thirty WISN
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