December 15, 2025 • 26 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you need wisdom and advice. Seek out a guru
when you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now. And Nick the Construction
Guru here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty wisn Nick the Construction Guru. Exciting day
today besides the snow, we have some tips for homeowners
thinking about remodeling projects. And I have my lovely wife here, Lynn,
and we're going to talk today about a Facebook post
that we put up on our page about a couple
in Mekwan who had a challenging event with another contractor.
(00:44):
Not so much that we're going to get into who
the contractor is or if you go online you can
find that on our posts, but just want to talk
about what happened and kind of how to avoid these
in the future. So Lynn, thanks for coming in today.
I know you're busy, but you're here good morning. So
tell us a little bit about what happened to this couple.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, I mean I post for our Facebook page and
I obviously peruse Facebook and teamj has a playset you
can go to for consumer complaints and then they investigate
and called Lightning l I couldn't find it. Yes, something
It's kind of like for Contact six.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I don't want to I'm sure that TMJ four is
gonna be happy with me, but it is like like
Contact sick.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, it's a consumer advocacy where they investigate on behalf
and kind of do some reporting. And basically they hired
a contractor. I don't know all the details, so that's
where I don't want to get in the minutia of
the specifics because it was a very short excerpt. I'm
sure there's more behind the scenes with both sides. But
they paid them. They didn't get a job that was
(01:51):
done correctly. There were some problems with the plumbing. Again
not to take any size, but and then they weren't
be able to get a resolution. They didn't get any
money back. They felt like they were just kind of
left hie and dry with a contractor.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, and the bottom line is is when you're getting
started with a remodeling project, it's supposed to be a
fun thing. It's you know you're going to after you
get the minutia, the pricing and all that figured out,
then it's fun and start. Time to start picking tile
and light fixtures and sinks and faucets. But when you
get into the middle of a project and things aren't
(02:28):
going the way they're supposed to be going. And in
this case, I think the contractor had more money than
he had work in the project.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And again I have a feeling based on the conversation,
but I don't have any valid proof because again I
haven't sat down and talked to these people. It's just
based on this news reporting segment.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's just another one of those things that catch caught
our eye because we're in the business and we look
at this and you know, you wonder, why do people
pay all the money upfront? I'm not sure that was
the case here, Or why do people get in deeper
into the money than they are into the project. What
is the vetting process that these people decided to do.
(03:08):
The one thing I am going to say, and if
you look at the post on our Facebook page, the
cost of the bathroom was suspect to me right away.
When you have a full bathroom remodel for thirty five
thousand dollars, I'm just going to tell you, and this
may drop some jaws out there, but you're not getting
a full bathroom remodel for thirty five thousand dollars these
(03:29):
days anymore. So you know a lot of times people
will say, yeah, we've added them in the vetting is
while they were the low bitter you know.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, and the other thing again, not to pick on anybody,
including these these clients, these people that you know, got
felt ripped off. One of the red flags that I
heard also if you listen to their thing is they
picked him because he was the quickest to get started.
And that's another red flag. So I mean, there's a
lot of red flags in the story without even knowing
(03:58):
the whole story. And that's where I think this conversation.
You know, and you've done seminars many times talking to consumers,
and you've gone on Contact six in the past with
Katrina Cravi and went after people who have done bad jobs,
yeah their front door, and then and also helped make
those customers new again by bringing in, you know, trusted
(04:21):
vendors like Tommy Eliota to make things right for jobs
that people didn't do right. So, you know, you have
a lot of experience working with the Ethics and Better
Business Bureau and helping mediate these kinds of things. Sometimes
it's bad people. Sometimes it's bad communication, sometimes it's misunderstandings.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, you know, the key to this is don't be
a dummy. If you're a dummy, you're going to get
bad results. So just because a guy has a big,
flashy ad or has big wraps around his truck, that's
not why you go with that contractor you have to
look into this and see what's going on. One of
(04:58):
the dumbest things I heard on particular post was that
they because he was the fastest this business. If you're good,
you're busy. So why would you want somebody who's not busy,
Because if you're good, you're busy. If you're no good,
you're not busy. That's just common lodge. That's fifth grade
math for me.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well so, and I agree completely, But I know when
people get in the midst of wanting something done, you
know again it's the Amazon exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
And it doesn't work and remodeling. Yeah, and you know,
I'm on the Nary Ethics Committee and we're the worthy
We're the committee that does the arbitration and mediation if
there's a challenge between a member and a homeowner, and
more often than not, it's communication. But I have to
tell you a lot of times. The reasons that people
(05:49):
pick the contractors the dumbest two reasons is fast and cheap.
It's just dumb. You're going to take a risk doing that.
And I when when I look at homeowners sitting on
the side of the table saying, well, they said they
could get there right away and we needed it for
a daughter's graduation, I want to just look at them
and go, you're dumb, because that's not how it works.
(06:10):
You have to vet first of all. The number one
criteria for me is how long has that company been
in business under the same name and ownership. That's number
one for me because they've been doing it a long time.
I've said it a million times if I've said it
once on this show and at seminars. If you are
(06:30):
in this business, there's no university. There's follow up certifications
through NARY, and there's training programs that you can go through,
but there's no established criteria and then a certificate at
the end that where you can say, Okay, I'm a remodeler.
We learn by making mistakes on people's houses. Sorry to
say that. So the longest that you've been the longer
(06:53):
you've been in business, the more mistakes you've made, the
more lessons you've learned. It's what we call paying tuition.
So when you look at a contractor, he's been in
business for three years, and then you look at a
contractor who's been in business for fifty years, No, I'm
not going to make any bones about it. The fifty
year contractor is better than the three year contractor, and
you will be right making that decision. Ninety eight percent
(07:15):
of the time. When you look at the contractor's portfolio
as far as what they're doing, and you follow up
and talk to some customers, you're going to be able
to tell whether I mean, we were at one. I'm
not going to bring up their name. But out in Pewaukee,
the guys advertising all over Facebook. It's a husband wife team.
(07:37):
They're doing a lot of advertising on Facebook. And every
job we've been to, they've screwed up every single one
of them. And you know, why not ask the contractor
for somebody and then make the phone call.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I'll give out names of references and people will go okay,
and they think just because you're providing the references, that's good.
You're good now because you're not going to provide a
reference that's going to give you a bad rap. So
people say, well, at least they gave us some reference.
Call the people and ask them some questions, Ask the
right questions. What happened when there was a delay? How
were you, how were you notified by that? How was
(08:13):
the contractor's communication style? Things like that. You can gain
a lot from that. And I've said it a million times.
If I've said at once, remodeling is a short term marriage. Okay,
I didn't marry the first girl I dated, and neither
did any of you out there or the first guy
that you dated, because somewhere along the line they out
here's what one going I did.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
No, I'm just laughing. There is people who have that's
not completely true statement. But but okay, the Lion's shared.
The people who got married and with the first person
they dated probably aren't married anymore. Okay, so that's another thing.
But what I'm saying is this isn't a marriage consoling class.
But I'm just saying, you know, it's you. You have
(08:54):
to have a certain community. I might be the right
guy for some people, I'm definitely not the right guy
for other people. And I already know that, and I
establish a communications style with people and I'll tell them
if I feel like it's not going to work between us.
I'm a control freak. I can't work for other control freaks.
So if you're a control freak, you don't want to
deal with cursionar remodeling construction. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
If you want to be guided through a process and
you want to be softly taken down that road, then
we're the right people.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
But I think and that's all those are val points.
I think the one thing that I think is important
for the consumer and people listening to understand is that,
for instance, this guy might have been a legit contractor
at one point, things happen. You know, maybe I don't
know again whether this is the truth of the story is,
but we've seen true true, right, But there's there has
(09:44):
been bad contrasts that taking people's money. We've seen it,
we've lived it, and we've reach they started out with
that intent, right, what you're saying. But I think the
things that I want to highlight and that we should,
you know, talk about is if let's say it was
thirty five thousand, we're going that's pretty you for remodel. Now,
thirty five thousand dollars a lot of money to somebody,
and it's a lot of money in general. So it's
(10:05):
not to pooh pooh, thirty five thousand, five hundreds a
lot of money. Yeah, but I'm saying so it's not
even the cost, it's that when did they pay these
There should be milestones, And this is one thing that
I think people should understand. If they let's say it's
fifty thousand, let's say it's one hundred thousand, you never
give that full amount down at the beginning, or even
half of it down. There should be and I think
(10:26):
that's something that people should understand and maybe explain that
because I think that's a critical element of It's real simple.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You should never be deeper in money than they are
in labor. So in the beginning, there is going to
be an initial investment that you have to make because
I mean, I mean, at least from our perspective at
our company, I'm not going to finance the jobs. So
what I mean by that is if you're getting you know,
sixty thousand dollars worth of kitchen cabin, that's nine thousand
dollars worth of countertops and we're ordering that, we want
(10:56):
half that money upfront, just like anybody else would if
you're having a custom suit made or customs drapery, anything
like that. The cabinets are going to fit your house,
the countertops are going to fit your house. They're not
going to fit somebody else's, so we're stuck with them.
So you're stuck with them. Once those are installed, we
want the other half of the money, because that's we're
deep as deep into labor as you are in the money.
(11:17):
So when we draft our sales agreement, it says in
there that at this point when drywall hits, keep in
mind when you do drywall, all your electrical stunt, all
your plumbings done.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Now there's a payment due.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Once you pay that payment, then we go on to
the next thing and maybe we put in all the
trim and the cabinets, and then there's a payment due.
And so you should feel comfortable, and I know, at
least with us, if you're uncomfortable with our milestones, we'll
work with you so that you're comfortable. Now, some people
in this business can't do that because they need your
down payment to make next week's payroll. And that's why
(11:51):
you want to deal with the company that's been in
business along time. I'm sorry, I'm a little hardcore on
this because I've seen it too much.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Right, No, And I think that's one of the biggest
things I think consumers should really think about. They shouldn't
get coherced into giving all their money because again, this
is this is usually when it goes south because they can't.
They don't have any recuperation if things don't go well,
if there's a misach, right, there's no leverage. You go
(12:17):
after them and they probably don't have the money, and
then they're bankrupt. And guess what. Here here is the story,
the scenario seen over and over.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And you know, we're gonna take a short break. But
when we come back, I want to talk a little
bit about you know, people, lawyers, courts and all of that.
We're gonna I'm gonna tell you what the normal result
is when you get an award from a contractor who's
out of business. And I think most of you already
know just by the way I said that what happens.
But we're going to take a short break and when
we come back, we'll talk some more on News Talk
eleven thirty WISN there's talk eleven thirty WISN returning from
(12:54):
a break. It's Nick the Construction Group. They gave me
a bell here to play with and they said don't
overuse it, so I'm I'm going to just use it
once in a while. We're happy to be here today.
We are talking about a Facebook post that we put up,
but I just want to shoot out a little advertisement
before I get started. If you're thinking about a remodeling
project and kind of germane to what we're talking about today,
(13:14):
you want a vetted contractor who's going to deliver what
we promise, you can give us a call. We are
Cursioner Remodeling construction, kitchens, bathrooms, reck rooms, pretty much everything.
At Kursioner, we treat your home as if it were
our own. Check out our Better Business Bureau rating A plus.
For the last fifty years, only contractor in Wisconsin to
win the Better Business Bureau TORCHU Award for Ethics and
(13:36):
Integrity three times. No one else in our industry has
done that, so ask yourself why did that happen? We
have over seventy five regional, local, and national awards for
our work.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Give us a call.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Check out our Facebook page cursionerink dot com. And if
you're just tuning in, we are talking today about our
Facebook page. Lynna's been managing that and we're not only
putting on a lot of information and a lot of
cool projects, but we're all so attuned to what's going
on in the industry and recently a Mekwon couple feel
as though they've got bulked, bilked bulked builked, got taken
(14:10):
advantage of and we're just kind of talking about that.
We didn't really look into the case. I'm not sure
exactly who's guilty, who's not what happened, But you can
take a look at that on our Facebook page if
you'd like. It's just been posted on there the last
couple of days. But we wanted to talk about how
to keep you safe from at least try and keep
(14:33):
you as safe as we can from contractors who are
looking to build homeowners. And when we left, we were
talking a little bit about some of the safeguards. If
you want to run through that again, lend some of
the safeguards you can do to make sure your contractor
at least you've done some vetting, I guess is what
I'm saying, so.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Right, well, I mean again, you can have a great
they can send you great referrals of people who like
their jobs. They could be in business for a while
or a short time. I mean, if they're a short
time doesn't mean they're bad contracts by any means. You've
got to start somewhere. I think the key things that
our red flags are if they might be ready right
(15:12):
away to do a job. Because again today in this industry,
everyone we know that our you know, reputation, people who
are reputable that we know as friends and you know
peers are busy. Yeah, well I'm trying to you know,
and you're going to wait for a project. And it's
that's why I even said, you know, if you're doing
something for a patio, you should start planning it now
(15:34):
because the process takes a while and then by springtime
it's ready to break. And you don't call someone up
and say we have a graduation in June and we
you know, call us in May and say we like
a deck done by June, because that isn't good. Even
if we weren't busy, wouldn't happen. It's just there's too
much time involved in the whole process. But stepping back,
I think if they're available immediately, that could be a
(15:55):
red flag. If they're asking for all the money of
the project down or a large more than milestone amounts,
right right, I mean, I know there is some pivotal things,
but if you're giving all your money or a majority
of it before anything's done, that should be a red
flag to a consumer. You should really go why you
know the contract? You should. I mean, if it's a
(16:18):
short contract and it doesn't have a lot of details,
that could be a concern because that's the way you
can get around anything from the legal standpoint as far
as the contractor if they don't have specific things in there,
how do you know what you're going to be getting.
If it's not signed in you know, a legal document,
you have nothing to go back to and maybe talk
(16:39):
about that because that's kind of legal aspect, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
At the break we were talking the ramifications of this.
Even if you get even if all your PaperWorks in order,
all your selections are made, all your payments are documented,
and the guy absolutely sticks it to you and you
win the case, the odds of you getting your money
are slim to null. So you're going to have a
(17:03):
lot of legal bills you're going to have a lot
of stress relay. This is supposed to be a fun
thing when you're improving your house, it's supposed to be
a fun thing. When you're putting on an edition. It
supposed to be a fun thing home theater or rec room.
Now you get into this thing, you're stressed out. You
go all this through all this court, you get this
huge legal bill, and all of a sudden, now you
got this judgment. Well, I'm going to tell you something.
(17:25):
You might as well set it on a toilet paper roller,
because that's what it's worth. Because if the guy didn't
have the money to finish the job, and didn't have
the decency to finish your job the ethical behavior that's
required in this business, you're not going to get your money.
So when you go in and you choose the lowest bidder,
or when you go in and you choose the guy
who can get there right away, or you go in
(17:45):
and you give you more than half your money down,
you better set aside some money for the risk you're running.
Because I have seen it time and time. It's the
same old scams dusted off and brought out. And you
know I know that I sound hard on this, but
I'm so tired of seeing people getting taken. In my
fifty plus years in this business, I've seen the same
(18:07):
stuff happen dozens of time, and you know, people look dumbfounded.
If you have three bids on a kitchen and two
of them are at in the hundreds and one's at
sixty five, I would be very suspect of the person
with sixty five. I'm not saying that there aren't people
out there who maybe can get the job done. I
can't imagine that kind of disparity in the pricing. We
(18:31):
run on a fifteen percent margin, right.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I mean I think most les, Yeah, I think most
companies don't have high margins. It's you can't. Yeah, it's
too competitive.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, it's very competitive. But when you find that one
low ball in there. And that's the reason I bring
that up is because on the Facebook page, again, if
you're just tuning in, we put this guy in there
and it was a thirty five thousand dollars bathroom. A
thirty five thousand dollars bathroom is entry level at best.
So if you're doing a master bath and you have
any kind of a shower arrangement.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
With tile, tile, especially tiles outrageous.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, our average bathroom is now between seventy five
and one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I know
some of you are going whoa, but you know, get
the numbers. Find out the numbers, and we find that
we are if we get if they get four or
five bids, we're going to be in the middle. We're
not the high. So I mean, that's another thing. If
(19:28):
you do your research, you should just look at pricing online.
I know that Handley Wood does the price versus value
breakdown online. You could get on there at Handley I
think it's Handley Publications or but if you pull it up,
you will see what the averages are for decks bathrooms.
You know, I have people talking to me about deck
the average deck. Can I do a deck for thirty
(19:49):
five thousand? Yeah, I'd call it more of a stoop
because you know, decks today are We've done several decks
over one hundred thousand dollars and it's not because we're
making more money, but materials have gone up. You're using composites.
There's all kinds of things in play, right, So not
to go off on any tangent one way, or another.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But the reality of.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It is you have to do your research, and it's
a tremendous amount of research on you before you even
call us in. And then you have to do research
with us. Because there used to be you know, I
always say, this used to be four or five colors
of countertops. Now there's four or five thousand. There used
to be three or four materials you had from Micah Correon,
maybe stone for the very hot, you know, wealthy. But today,
(20:32):
granted the way it's mind and the way it's manufactured,
almost anybody can afford it. How many different colors when
you walk into designs in marble, I mean, well.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
On the tile. And I think the biggest thing is
that people Again, the Amazon and HGTV effect has been
the worst and the best. You know, I love watching HDTV.
I love the condensed version of watching something be renovated
or even clicking show, you know. I love that because
(21:01):
you see a process. But they the cost of a
lot of these jobs. Again, people are like, thirty five
thousand isn't a lot is a lot of money for
a bathroom? Well maybe, I mean, I'm not saying thirty
five thousand isn't a lot of money. I get it,
you save a lot, you don't, right, But in the
scheme of things, when you look at materials and you
look at project, you look at all the things that
(21:22):
go behind the scenes, labor costs. You know, there's a
lot of people in this mix of getting there's electrician, plumbers, tile,
you know, labor, I mean, there's floring people. It's it's
not just one thing. It's a it's like making a recipe.
So it's a lot of components in there, a lot
of moving parts. But like I said, I mean HGTV,
(21:44):
they have sponsors, a lot of things are given free.
So it's in Canada that you know that Handley what
is just Handley would when you go on that website,
not only do right, they break it down by sectors.
Because if you go to California and you model, it's
going to be much more expensive than here. I mean
you know that just by the housing costs, I mean
(22:05):
cost of living. So you know you have to look
at where was this being renovated. Was it in the Midwest,
So you know there's a lot of variables.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Think what you're saying is you've got to qualify your information.
So you know, we live in a particular region. We
have a scale of wages here, and so you have
to look in this region when you're looking at comparison jobs.
When you go on HDTV and they're doing it in
Canada and their codes aren't even the same as ours,
and oh you can we did this kitchen for twenty
(22:34):
three thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Sorry, not true.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I did a whole seminar and all kinds of research
on that, and it's not true because they're getting free
materials because of sponsorships from Home Depot and Lows and
other other criers.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It's a show.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, it's a show. And then you can't get it
done in three weeks. It's not going to happen. I
can't edit the tape when I do your project, but
they can when they do that show. So those are
all things that you have to look at and get
the reality. And a good contractor is going to come
in and explain this to you. Somebody who's trying to
sell you something is going to come in and try
and sell you something right and get you.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
To sign them outline that day.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right, right, And that's that's another thing. You do have
the right to think about it, and remember you don't.
You don't have to sign anything now, and any deal
that's there now is still going to be there tomorrow,
if not through the company you're talking to through another company.
So you know, buyer beware coveed empter s Garpie. Do
you seize the teeth right, missus? Doubt fire? You remember
(23:34):
that one.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
One of the things that Lynn put out on the
Facebook page is that if you have if you have
questions or you're wondering, you know what's my next step?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
We're happy to help you.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
It doesn't mean you have to have us come out
and bid the job or or or have us, you know,
get involved with anything. We can just give you our
advice on how to do things and some of the
some of the resources available to you that you know.
The Better Business Bureau now I'm going to tell you
this too. The Better Business Bureau and NARY, the NBA,
(24:08):
all of those are good places to go, but none
of them are good places to depend solely on. So
are there some bad contractors in the NBA? I'm sure
there are are. There some bad contractors in NARRY. I'm
sure there are. They just haven't been caught or vetted.
Yet Another thing is when when younger people start in
this business, a lot of times they're very good at
(24:31):
what they do, but they're not very good at business.
And if they get into a project because they lobid
it and they're halfway into it and they don't have
the resources to finish it, that's because they're good at
what they do, they're at their craft, they're just not
good at the business aspect of it. And if you
think about it, a lot of these newer companies popping
up are coming from established businesses that know the business
(24:52):
end of it. And so another thing is with the
low bids, you have to be careful with that. We
almost out of time.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Here, Greg, I just want to say one thing. With
everything you do to vet you know all the process
and steps we talked about, we can again you can
ask us questions online if there's more specific detailed to
some specific project. But I would say it also, I
guess being a female, I'd say trust your gut if
something seems not you know, too good to be true
(25:19):
as they say, or you just don't feel right about
the pressure you're getting or the questions or the way
you're being pursued for signing on the dotline. Wait, trust
your gut. I say this again as a female.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, and it's it's great, And you know to your point,
I know that the demographics in this business is the
female makes the decisions on the house most of the time.
So yeah, trust your gut, and I think that's a
great point. We're going to return again next week. I'm
not yes, I am sure. It's Adam Koker from What's Up.
He's going to be coming in and talking to us
(25:53):
about generators. So looking forward to seeing you all next week.
I guess hearing you all next week. Right, we don't
see anything
Speaker 3 (25:59):
On here on News Talk eleven thirty w I S N.
When you need wisdom and advice. Seek out a guru
when you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now. And Nick the Construction
Guru here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty wisn Nick the Construction Guru. Exciting day
today besides the snow, we have some tips for homeowners
thinking about remodeling projects. And I have my lovely wife here, Lynn,
and we're going to talk today about a Facebook post
that we put up on our page about a couple
in Mekwan who had a challenging event with another contractor.
(00:44):
Not so much that we're going to get into who
the contractor is or if you go online you can
find that on our posts, but just want to talk
about what happened and kind of how to avoid these
in the future. So Lynn, thanks for coming in today.
I know you're busy, but you're here good morning. So
tell us a little bit about what happened to this couple.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, I mean I post for our Facebook page and
I obviously peruse Facebook and teamj has a playset you
can go to for consumer complaints and then they investigate
and called Lightning l I couldn't find it. Yes, something
It's kind of like for Contact six.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I don't want to I'm sure that TMJ four is
gonna be happy with me, but it is like like
Contact sick.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, it's a consumer advocacy where they investigate on behalf
and kind of do some reporting. And basically they hired
a contractor. I don't know all the details, so that's
where I don't want to get in the minutia of
the specifics because it was a very short excerpt. I'm
sure there's more behind the scenes with both sides. But
they paid them. They didn't get a job that was
(01:51):
done correctly. There were some problems with the plumbing. Again
not to take any size, but and then they weren't
be able to get a resolution. They didn't get any
money back. They felt like they were just kind of
left hie and dry with a contractor.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, and the bottom line is is when you're getting
started with a remodeling project, it's supposed to be a
fun thing. It's you know you're going to after you
get the minutia, the pricing and all that figured out,
then it's fun and start. Time to start picking tile
and light fixtures and sinks and faucets. But when you
get into the middle of a project and things aren't
(02:28):
going the way they're supposed to be going. And in
this case, I think the contractor had more money than
he had work in the project.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And again I have a feeling based on the conversation,
but I don't have any valid proof because again I
haven't sat down and talked to these people. It's just
based on this news reporting segment.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's just another one of those things that catch caught
our eye because we're in the business and we look
at this and you know, you wonder, why do people
pay all the money upfront? I'm not sure that was
the case here, Or why do people get in deeper
into the money than they are into the project. What
is the vetting process that these people decided to do.
(03:08):
The one thing I am going to say, and if
you look at the post on our Facebook page, the
cost of the bathroom was suspect to me right away.
When you have a full bathroom remodel for thirty five
thousand dollars, I'm just going to tell you, and this
may drop some jaws out there, but you're not getting
a full bathroom remodel for thirty five thousand dollars these
(03:29):
days anymore. So you know a lot of times people
will say, yeah, we've added them in the vetting is
while they were the low bitter you know.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, and the other thing again, not to pick on anybody,
including these these clients, these people that you know, got
felt ripped off. One of the red flags that I
heard also if you listen to their thing is they
picked him because he was the quickest to get started.
And that's another red flag. So I mean, there's a
lot of red flags in the story without even knowing
(03:58):
the whole story. And that's where I think this conversation.
You know, and you've done seminars many times talking to consumers,
and you've gone on Contact six in the past with
Katrina Cravi and went after people who have done bad jobs,
yeah their front door, and then and also helped make
those customers new again by bringing in, you know, trusted
(04:21):
vendors like Tommy Eliota to make things right for jobs
that people didn't do right. So, you know, you have
a lot of experience working with the Ethics and Better
Business Bureau and helping mediate these kinds of things. Sometimes
it's bad people. Sometimes it's bad communication, sometimes it's misunderstandings.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, you know, the key to this is don't be
a dummy. If you're a dummy, you're going to get
bad results. So just because a guy has a big,
flashy ad or has big wraps around his truck, that's
not why you go with that contractor you have to
look into this and see what's going on. One of
(04:58):
the dumbest things I heard on particular post was that
they because he was the fastest this business. If you're good,
you're busy. So why would you want somebody who's not busy,
Because if you're good, you're busy. If you're no good,
you're not busy. That's just common lodge. That's fifth grade
math for me.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well so, and I agree completely, But I know when
people get in the midst of wanting something done, you
know again it's the Amazon exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
And it doesn't work and remodeling. Yeah, and you know,
I'm on the Nary Ethics Committee and we're the worthy
We're the committee that does the arbitration and mediation if
there's a challenge between a member and a homeowner, and
more often than not, it's communication. But I have to
tell you a lot of times. The reasons that people
(05:49):
pick the contractors the dumbest two reasons is fast and cheap.
It's just dumb. You're going to take a risk doing that.
And I when when I look at homeowners sitting on
the side of the table saying, well, they said they
could get there right away and we needed it for
a daughter's graduation, I want to just look at them
and go, you're dumb, because that's not how it works.
(06:10):
You have to vet first of all. The number one
criteria for me is how long has that company been
in business under the same name and ownership. That's number
one for me because they've been doing it a long time.
I've said it a million times if I've said it
once on this show and at seminars. If you are
(06:30):
in this business, there's no university. There's follow up certifications
through NARY, and there's training programs that you can go through,
but there's no established criteria and then a certificate at
the end that where you can say, Okay, I'm a remodeler.
We learn by making mistakes on people's houses. Sorry to
say that. So the longest that you've been the longer
(06:53):
you've been in business, the more mistakes you've made, the
more lessons you've learned. It's what we call paying tuition.
So when you look at a contractor, he's been in
business for three years, and then you look at a
contractor who's been in business for fifty years, No, I'm
not going to make any bones about it. The fifty
year contractor is better than the three year contractor, and
you will be right making that decision. Ninety eight percent
(07:15):
of the time. When you look at the contractor's portfolio
as far as what they're doing, and you follow up
and talk to some customers, you're going to be able
to tell whether I mean, we were at one. I'm
not going to bring up their name. But out in Pewaukee,
the guys advertising all over Facebook. It's a husband wife team.
(07:37):
They're doing a lot of advertising on Facebook. And every
job we've been to, they've screwed up every single one
of them. And you know, why not ask the contractor
for somebody and then make the phone call.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I'll give out names of references and people will go okay,
and they think just because you're providing the references, that's good.
You're good now because you're not going to provide a
reference that's going to give you a bad rap. So
people say, well, at least they gave us some reference.
Call the people and ask them some questions, Ask the
right questions. What happened when there was a delay? How
were you, how were you notified by that? How was
(08:13):
the contractor's communication style? Things like that. You can gain
a lot from that. And I've said it a million times.
If I've said at once, remodeling is a short term marriage. Okay,
I didn't marry the first girl I dated, and neither
did any of you out there or the first guy
that you dated, because somewhere along the line they out
here's what one going I did.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
No, I'm just laughing. There is people who have that's
not completely true statement. But but okay, the Lion's shared.
The people who got married and with the first person
they dated probably aren't married anymore. Okay, so that's another thing.
But what I'm saying is this isn't a marriage consoling class.
But I'm just saying, you know, it's you. You have
(08:54):
to have a certain community. I might be the right
guy for some people, I'm definitely not the right guy
for other people. And I already know that, and I
establish a communications style with people and I'll tell them
if I feel like it's not going to work between us.
I'm a control freak. I can't work for other control freaks.
So if you're a control freak, you don't want to
deal with cursionar remodeling construction. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
If you want to be guided through a process and
you want to be softly taken down that road, then
we're the right people.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
But I think and that's all those are val points.
I think the one thing that I think is important
for the consumer and people listening to understand is that,
for instance, this guy might have been a legit contractor
at one point, things happen. You know, maybe I don't
know again whether this is the truth of the story is,
but we've seen true true, right, But there's there has
(09:44):
been bad contrasts that taking people's money. We've seen it,
we've lived it, and we've reach they started out with
that intent, right, what you're saying. But I think the
things that I want to highlight and that we should,
you know, talk about is if let's say it was
thirty five thousand, we're going that's pretty you for remodel. Now,
thirty five thousand dollars a lot of money to somebody,
and it's a lot of money in general. So it's
(10:05):
not to pooh pooh, thirty five thousand, five hundreds a
lot of money. Yeah, but I'm saying so it's not
even the cost, it's that when did they pay these
There should be milestones, And this is one thing that
I think people should understand. If they let's say it's
fifty thousand, let's say it's one hundred thousand, you never
give that full amount down at the beginning, or even
half of it down. There should be and I think
(10:26):
that's something that people should understand and maybe explain that
because I think that's a critical element of It's real simple.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You should never be deeper in money than they are
in labor. So in the beginning, there is going to
be an initial investment that you have to make because
I mean, I mean, at least from our perspective at
our company, I'm not going to finance the jobs. So
what I mean by that is if you're getting you know,
sixty thousand dollars worth of kitchen cabin, that's nine thousand
dollars worth of countertops and we're ordering that, we want
(10:56):
half that money upfront, just like anybody else would if
you're having a custom suit made or customs drapery, anything
like that. The cabinets are going to fit your house,
the countertops are going to fit your house. They're not
going to fit somebody else's, so we're stuck with them.
So you're stuck with them. Once those are installed, we
want the other half of the money, because that's we're
deep as deep into labor as you are in the money.
(11:17):
So when we draft our sales agreement, it says in
there that at this point when drywall hits, keep in
mind when you do drywall, all your electrical stunt, all
your plumbings done.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Now there's a payment due.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Once you pay that payment, then we go on to
the next thing and maybe we put in all the
trim and the cabinets, and then there's a payment due.
And so you should feel comfortable, and I know, at
least with us, if you're uncomfortable with our milestones, we'll
work with you so that you're comfortable. Now, some people
in this business can't do that because they need your
down payment to make next week's payroll. And that's why
(11:51):
you want to deal with the company that's been in
business along time. I'm sorry, I'm a little hardcore on
this because I've seen it too much.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Right, No, And I think that's one of the biggest
things I think consumers should really think about. They shouldn't
get coherced into giving all their money because again, this
is this is usually when it goes south because they can't.
They don't have any recuperation if things don't go well,
if there's a misach, right, there's no leverage. You go
(12:17):
after them and they probably don't have the money, and
then they're bankrupt. And guess what. Here here is the story,
the scenario seen over and over.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And you know, we're gonna take a short break. But
when we come back, I want to talk a little
bit about you know, people, lawyers, courts and all of that.
We're gonna I'm gonna tell you what the normal result
is when you get an award from a contractor who's
out of business. And I think most of you already
know just by the way I said that what happens.
But we're going to take a short break and when
we come back, we'll talk some more on News Talk
eleven thirty WISN there's talk eleven thirty WISN returning from
(12:54):
a break. It's Nick the Construction Group. They gave me
a bell here to play with and they said don't
overuse it, so I'm I'm going to just use it
once in a while. We're happy to be here today.
We are talking about a Facebook post that we put up,
but I just want to shoot out a little advertisement
before I get started. If you're thinking about a remodeling
project and kind of germane to what we're talking about today,
(13:14):
you want a vetted contractor who's going to deliver what
we promise, you can give us a call. We are
Cursioner Remodeling construction, kitchens, bathrooms, reck rooms, pretty much everything.
At Kursioner, we treat your home as if it were
our own. Check out our Better Business Bureau rating A plus.
For the last fifty years, only contractor in Wisconsin to
win the Better Business Bureau TORCHU Award for Ethics and
(13:36):
Integrity three times. No one else in our industry has
done that, so ask yourself why did that happen? We
have over seventy five regional, local, and national awards for
our work.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Give us a call.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Check out our Facebook page cursionerink dot com. And if
you're just tuning in, we are talking today about our
Facebook page. Lynna's been managing that and we're not only
putting on a lot of information and a lot of
cool projects, but we're all so attuned to what's going
on in the industry and recently a Mekwon couple feel
as though they've got bulked, bilked bulked builked, got taken
(14:10):
advantage of and we're just kind of talking about that.
We didn't really look into the case. I'm not sure
exactly who's guilty, who's not what happened, But you can
take a look at that on our Facebook page if
you'd like. It's just been posted on there the last
couple of days. But we wanted to talk about how
to keep you safe from at least try and keep
(14:33):
you as safe as we can from contractors who are
looking to build homeowners. And when we left, we were
talking a little bit about some of the safeguards. If
you want to run through that again, lend some of
the safeguards you can do to make sure your contractor
at least you've done some vetting, I guess is what
I'm saying, so.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Right, well, I mean again, you can have a great
they can send you great referrals of people who like
their jobs. They could be in business for a while
or a short time. I mean, if they're a short
time doesn't mean they're bad contracts by any means. You've
got to start somewhere. I think the key things that
our red flags are if they might be ready right
(15:12):
away to do a job. Because again today in this industry,
everyone we know that our you know, reputation, people who
are reputable that we know as friends and you know
peers are busy. Yeah, well I'm trying to you know,
and you're going to wait for a project. And it's
that's why I even said, you know, if you're doing
something for a patio, you should start planning it now
(15:34):
because the process takes a while and then by springtime
it's ready to break. And you don't call someone up
and say we have a graduation in June and we
you know, call us in May and say we like
a deck done by June, because that isn't good. Even
if we weren't busy, wouldn't happen. It's just there's too
much time involved in the whole process. But stepping back,
I think if they're available immediately, that could be a
(15:55):
red flag. If they're asking for all the money of
the project down or a large more than milestone amounts,
right right, I mean, I know there is some pivotal things,
but if you're giving all your money or a majority
of it before anything's done, that should be a red
flag to a consumer. You should really go why you
know the contract? You should. I mean, if it's a
(16:18):
short contract and it doesn't have a lot of details,
that could be a concern because that's the way you
can get around anything from the legal standpoint as far
as the contractor if they don't have specific things in there,
how do you know what you're going to be getting.
If it's not signed in you know, a legal document,
you have nothing to go back to and maybe talk
(16:39):
about that because that's kind of legal aspect, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
At the break we were talking the ramifications of this.
Even if you get even if all your PaperWorks in order,
all your selections are made, all your payments are documented,
and the guy absolutely sticks it to you and you
win the case, the odds of you getting your money
are slim to null. So you're going to have a
(17:03):
lot of legal bills you're going to have a lot
of stress relay. This is supposed to be a fun
thing when you're improving your house, it's supposed to be
a fun thing. When you're putting on an edition. It
supposed to be a fun thing home theater or rec room.
Now you get into this thing, you're stressed out. You
go all this through all this court, you get this
huge legal bill, and all of a sudden, now you
got this judgment. Well, I'm going to tell you something.
(17:25):
You might as well set it on a toilet paper roller,
because that's what it's worth. Because if the guy didn't
have the money to finish the job, and didn't have
the decency to finish your job the ethical behavior that's
required in this business, you're not going to get your money.
So when you go in and you choose the lowest bidder,
or when you go in and you choose the guy
who can get there right away, or you go in
(17:45):
and you give you more than half your money down,
you better set aside some money for the risk you're running.
Because I have seen it time and time. It's the
same old scams dusted off and brought out. And you
know I know that I sound hard on this, but
I'm so tired of seeing people getting taken. In my
fifty plus years in this business, I've seen the same
(18:07):
stuff happen dozens of time, and you know, people look dumbfounded.
If you have three bids on a kitchen and two
of them are at in the hundreds and one's at
sixty five, I would be very suspect of the person
with sixty five. I'm not saying that there aren't people
out there who maybe can get the job done. I
can't imagine that kind of disparity in the pricing. We
(18:31):
run on a fifteen percent margin, right.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I mean I think most les, Yeah, I think most
companies don't have high margins. It's you can't. Yeah, it's
too competitive.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, it's very competitive. But when you find that one
low ball in there. And that's the reason I bring
that up is because on the Facebook page, again, if
you're just tuning in, we put this guy in there
and it was a thirty five thousand dollars bathroom. A
thirty five thousand dollars bathroom is entry level at best.
So if you're doing a master bath and you have
any kind of a shower arrangement.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
With tile, tile, especially tiles outrageous.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, our average bathroom is now between seventy five
and one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I know
some of you are going whoa, but you know, get
the numbers. Find out the numbers, and we find that
we are if we get if they get four or
five bids, we're going to be in the middle. We're
not the high. So I mean, that's another thing. If
(19:28):
you do your research, you should just look at pricing online.
I know that Handley Wood does the price versus value
breakdown online. You could get on there at Handley I
think it's Handley Publications or but if you pull it up,
you will see what the averages are for decks bathrooms.
You know, I have people talking to me about deck
the average deck. Can I do a deck for thirty
(19:49):
five thousand? Yeah, I'd call it more of a stoop
because you know, decks today are We've done several decks
over one hundred thousand dollars and it's not because we're
making more money, but materials have gone up. You're using composites.
There's all kinds of things in play, right, So not
to go off on any tangent one way, or another.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But the reality of.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It is you have to do your research, and it's
a tremendous amount of research on you before you even
call us in. And then you have to do research
with us. Because there used to be you know, I
always say, this used to be four or five colors
of countertops. Now there's four or five thousand. There used
to be three or four materials you had from Micah Correon,
maybe stone for the very hot, you know, wealthy. But today,
(20:32):
granted the way it's mind and the way it's manufactured,
almost anybody can afford it. How many different colors when
you walk into designs in marble, I mean, well.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
On the tile. And I think the biggest thing is
that people Again, the Amazon and HGTV effect has been
the worst and the best. You know, I love watching HDTV.
I love the condensed version of watching something be renovated
or even clicking show, you know. I love that because
(21:01):
you see a process. But they the cost of a
lot of these jobs. Again, people are like, thirty five
thousand isn't a lot is a lot of money for
a bathroom? Well maybe, I mean, I'm not saying thirty
five thousand isn't a lot of money. I get it,
you save a lot, you don't, right, But in the
scheme of things, when you look at materials and you
look at project, you look at all the things that
(21:22):
go behind the scenes, labor costs. You know, there's a
lot of people in this mix of getting there's electrician, plumbers, tile,
you know, labor, I mean, there's floring people. It's it's
not just one thing. It's a it's like making a recipe.
So it's a lot of components in there, a lot
of moving parts. But like I said, I mean HGTV,
(21:44):
they have sponsors, a lot of things are given free.
So it's in Canada that you know that Handley what
is just Handley would when you go on that website,
not only do right, they break it down by sectors.
Because if you go to California and you model, it's
going to be much more expensive than here. I mean
you know that just by the housing costs, I mean
(22:05):
cost of living. So you know you have to look
at where was this being renovated. Was it in the Midwest,
So you know there's a lot of variables.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Think what you're saying is you've got to qualify your information.
So you know, we live in a particular region. We
have a scale of wages here, and so you have
to look in this region when you're looking at comparison jobs.
When you go on HDTV and they're doing it in
Canada and their codes aren't even the same as ours,
and oh you can we did this kitchen for twenty
(22:34):
three thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Sorry, not true.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I did a whole seminar and all kinds of research
on that, and it's not true because they're getting free
materials because of sponsorships from Home Depot and Lows and
other other criers.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It's a show.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, it's a show. And then you can't get it
done in three weeks. It's not going to happen. I
can't edit the tape when I do your project, but
they can when they do that show. So those are
all things that you have to look at and get
the reality. And a good contractor is going to come
in and explain this to you. Somebody who's trying to
sell you something is going to come in and try
and sell you something right and get you.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
To sign them outline that day.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right, right, And that's that's another thing. You do have
the right to think about it, and remember you don't.
You don't have to sign anything now, and any deal
that's there now is still going to be there tomorrow,
if not through the company you're talking to through another company.
So you know, buyer beware coveed empter s Garpie. Do
you seize the teeth right, missus? Doubt fire? You remember
(23:34):
that one.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
One of the things that Lynn put out on the
Facebook page is that if you have if you have
questions or you're wondering, you know what's my next step?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
We're happy to help you.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
It doesn't mean you have to have us come out
and bid the job or or or have us, you know,
get involved with anything. We can just give you our
advice on how to do things and some of the
some of the resources available to you that you know.
The Better Business Bureau now I'm going to tell you
this too. The Better Business Bureau and NARY, the NBA,
(24:08):
all of those are good places to go, but none
of them are good places to depend solely on. So
are there some bad contractors in the NBA? I'm sure
there are are. There some bad contractors in NARRY. I'm
sure there are. They just haven't been caught or vetted.
Yet Another thing is when when younger people start in
this business, a lot of times they're very good at
(24:31):
what they do, but they're not very good at business.
And if they get into a project because they lobid
it and they're halfway into it and they don't have
the resources to finish it, that's because they're good at
what they do, they're at their craft, they're just not
good at the business aspect of it. And if you
think about it, a lot of these newer companies popping
up are coming from established businesses that know the business
(24:52):
end of it. And so another thing is with the
low bids, you have to be careful with that. We
almost out of time.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Here, Greg, I just want to say one thing. With
everything you do to vet you know all the process
and steps we talked about, we can again you can
ask us questions online if there's more specific detailed to
some specific project. But I would say it also, I
guess being a female, I'd say trust your gut if
something seems not you know, too good to be true
(25:19):
as they say, or you just don't feel right about
the pressure you're getting or the questions or the way
you're being pursued for signing on the dotline. Wait, trust
your gut. I say this again as a female.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, and it's it's great, And you know to your point,
I know that the demographics in this business is the
female makes the decisions on the house most of the time.
So yeah, trust your gut, and I think that's a
great point. We're going to return again next week. I'm
not yes, I am sure. It's Adam Koker from What's Up.
He's going to be coming in and talking to us
(25:53):
about generators. So looking forward to seeing you all next week.
I guess hearing you all next week. Right, we don't
see anything
Speaker 3 (25:59):
On here on News Talk eleven thirty w I S N.
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