The Rich Conwell Show - August 17, 2024

Rich is joined by Cathy Harbin, PGA of America Professional at Pine Ridge Golf Club in Reno, TX.  They talk about her acquisition of the golf club, the programs she has worked with to grow the game, and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Komwall Golf Show. I am very,
very very happy this week. I'm actually kind of being
rewarded by digging a little bit deeper to find some
really interesting guests in the world of golf, and I
found one. This week, we are joined by Kathy Harbin,
and we're going to get into a lot of things
that Kathy is into and a lot of her accomplishments

(00:23):
are pretty amazing if you actually just look at them
on paper. But Kathy, I just wanted to say thanks
for coming on the show with us this week.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
My pleasure, rich thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
You bet you. So let's, as we do with every guest,
we have talk to me about how you got your
start in golf.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Okay, yes, So I was about thirteen and my dad
got to set a golf clubs for Father's Day. I
guess he had played golf early in his life and
was pretty good golfer, and so didn't have anything else
to give him on a Father's Day and said, well,
let's get him back into golf. And so so he

(01:05):
decided to take my brother and I to a little
Part three golf course and we probably went with them
five or six times. And we both had a little
bit of an aptitude for it, and it's kind of
in the natural ability.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
And then.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
He had some back issues and he stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Playing, but my brother and I kept playing.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
In fact, my brother was in the business as well.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
He builds golf courses. So that was my.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Start and we just kind of gravitated to it. Spent
a lot of time on golf courses from the during
the summertime. After that, and somehow or another, I got
a golf scholarship a little small town in Indiana at
Indiana State and that kind of set the tone for
the rest of my pathway.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
That's amazing. So here's the thing, and you obviously would
not know this because you've only been on here for about,
I don't know, two and a half minutes, But I
ask every guest to start how to tell their tale
of how they started. And you know, from LPGA tour
players to pg tour players, to people in the golf

(02:09):
business and on the periphery of the golf business or
right in the heart of it, it's amazing to me
how many of them reference being started by their father. Yeah,
it's amazing to me. And that is just that is
just so cool that, you know, you just kind of
you just added to the tally. I mean because every

(02:29):
every LPGA Tour player I've had on here referenced that,
and every actually every PGA Tour player I've had on
here referenced that. So that's really kind of neat. So
you mentioned you went to Indiana State. Is that correct? Okay?
So you did. Were you there when Larry Bird was there?
I'm not trying to date you. I think you're probably
way younger than he is.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
But I'm a little younger, but not by much. But
I didn't miss him.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I did miss his time there.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, because you're you're way you're way younger. I mean,
because I realized we're on the I realize we're on
the radio, on the podcast. But I'm gonna tell you
right now, you're way younger than Larry Bird. You're not
you're not as famous as Larry Bird, but you know
you are younger than he is. So did you play
it Indiana State? I did?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, So I was there on a golf scholarship and
and I played there. And I would just say this
for a sports fans out there for years and years
and years, if I mentioned Indiana State, the next words
out of someone's mouth was Larry Bird.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Right.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Now, that has subsided a little bit in the last
five six years, but it's still it still happens, obviously,
And that's the nine most famous thing about Indiana State
is Larry Bird.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Put us on the map.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, yeah, exactly, But you know what, it could have
been worse, because you know, you could have there are
people that you know, there are schools that have way, way,
way more sinister graduates from there that that people reference that.
So let's you know, we'll just stick with the blond
haired kid from the blond hair kid from French Lick
and that'll be okay too. So okay, so you go
to golf, you go to college, and you and you play.

(03:57):
Obviously you're a good player. I mean, you do not
get a Division one golf scholarship about being a good player.
So when did you did you try to play professionally?

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, so I'll carry that that a little bit further.
You know, I was a decent player, and you know,
had had my moments like every young player. And when
I graduated from college, I graduated with a business degree,
and so you know, I didn't really have aspirations to
play the tour at the time, and so I thought, well,

(04:30):
at any of the jobs I interviewed for, they didn't
sound all that interesting. And so I thought, while I
decided what to do with my life, I'm going to
go work at a golf course, because I'd already worked
at a golf course in the summertimes and things. And
so I found a nice little job in Sport Wayne,
Indiana at a at a private club and fell in
love with that part of the business, fell in love

(04:51):
with the kind of the club pro part of the business.
But I had a great, really great membership. It was
Orchard Ridge Country Clubs and or a couple of winters
in a row they sent me down to They paid
my way to go down and play the Mini Tour events.
And so I had just enough success with those Mini

(05:11):
Tour events that I thought, I'm going to give this
a shot. And so I did go play the Mini
tours for a few years, and it was out there
kind of traveling the country and doing that, and it
was I went trade that experience for anything in the world.
It didn't pan that side of the game of golf
didn't pan out for me. However, it was a fantastic experience.

(05:32):
And then finally when when it was time to settle
down a little bit, and I wasn't even sure that's
what I was doing, but I was just needed a
job for the winter. I had landed in in Fort Lauderdale, Florida,
and back into the business side of golf, and and

(05:52):
the owner that I was working for bought a new
golf course, and he bought this new golf course and
he needed someone to help him money.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
So I was pretty young and green at the time, but.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Fairly ambitious and super attentive, you know, to do anything
or you know, be anything, or whatever was needed. And
so so.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
It kind of put me in charge of the thing,
and I just love that this side of the business.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
I found out that I loved the operational side as
much as I loved playing, and I did have an
opportunity to go out and play a little bit more
after that, but I really declined it because I've decided
that the rest of my career was going to be
in golf operations, and that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
It's interesting you say that because I was I did
not I did not play division on golf. But it's
interesting that you talk about falling in love with the
operations and that side of it. I remember working at
a private club through high school and college, and it's
interesting that we could play golf on Mondays obviously all

(06:57):
day long, you know, and just go and go and
go and go and go. And I remember doing that
and having fun with that, but I also remember being
a little bit sad that it was really quiet and
there was nothing going on, Like there were no there
were no cars pulling in the parking lot, you know,
and there were no guys talking about Okay, who's playing who?
And where are we going and what are we doing?
And so so I kind of I can, I can.

(07:18):
I I know exactly what you're saying. It's a it's
a lot of fun to play golf, but when you
have that pull to that side of that counter, it
doesn't go away. It just doesn't go away. So, so
you're in Fort Lauderdale and obviously now you're enrolled in
the I'm not obviously, but I'm assuming you enrolled in
the PGA apprentice program. Right. We called it. They call

(07:39):
them associates now, see, because I'm so old, I remember
when we called them apprentices. But but so you you
started that in Florida.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
I started it when.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
I was in in Indiana still okay, so yeah, I
think it's in my class A and.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Maybe something like that.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
So it's when I kind of finished it in Florida.
But I was I was fortunate to go through just
have the opportunity to go through the ranks of being
an assistant golf pro to head golf pro too, you know.
And I got in with American Golf pretty early on
and they taught you how to be a manager, so

(08:24):
that was their whole things. So I was assistant manager
and the general manager, a fairly young general manager in
Fort Ladderdale. But I just I just loved that side
of the business and just kind of kept growing from there.
One of the best kind of turn of events for
me was when.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
I was offered the position at the World Off Village
and I was offered the director of Golf position, and
I was at the time.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
I was a general manager of a club for Ladderdale,
smaller club, but the opportunity to go where they were
building is still the process of building the World Off
Hall of Fame and these two fantastic golf courses. So
so I took a take advantage of that and moved
from Fort Lauderdale to St. Augustine, Florida, just off at Jacksonville,
and that that kind of shaped the.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
Rest of my career.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
But because of the people on that, and that's I
think I was expposed to.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
So, s did you like Saint Augustine?

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love Saint Augustine. Yes, yeah, A lot of good
friends are still go back frequently.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yes, yeah, I can believe that because because you know,
I was talking to somebody yesterday, because I was telling
something somebody about being in Jacksonville for something, and they're like, ooh, Jacksonville,
but Saint Augustine's awesome. I'm like, Okay, well, you know
it's I understand that, but you know it's it's it
doesn't surprise me that that would be so so building building,
the building the World Golf Village and and being around

(09:47):
the Hall of Fame development things that that had to
be a really really really interesting time period.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
That was a really interesting experience. Interesting time it was.
We opened the world off Hall of Fame in ninety
eight and almost every living Hall of Fame member that
could travel came to that, So you know, that's pretty
amazing experience.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Oh please tell me you got them to sign stuff.
Please tell me you get him to sign something and
boxes and.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Then I got them to sign because then because then
you know, I was there.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
For twelve years.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
So years later, I you know, I still like, I
don't think I have that person yet, let me go
get their signature.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
So yeah, I have a ton of stuff that is
so neat because you know, and because it opened in
ninety eight, and you know, mister Hogan died in ninety seven,
so like you didn't get him, but get him. But
but I have him. I have his, Ok, I have his.
I'm not giving I'm not getting I'm not giving it
to you and I'm never going to give it to you.
But I just want you to know that, like you know,

(10:48):
you're way more accomplished in this golf world than I am.
But I'm going to tell you right now, I've got
that and you don't. So that's about the only thing
that will hold on to and never will. That's why
I always have that. You know, I have Nelson too,
but I know you have him too, So yeah, exactly,
And I'll tell you what big this isn't aside that's
a gracious human being right there.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Best ever, Yeah, you ever.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
You would think you would think that, you know, that
guy was just like he's from Fort Worth, Texas and
he is a great player in top ten all time,
and and you would think he would he would carry
himself like that, and he doesn't. He's just like, Wow,
these people want to talk to me about playing golf. Yeah,
you know that's that's this. This is pretty amazing. I
mean yeah, the first the first thing, every time I

(11:35):
saw I saw him on three separate occasions, every time
he asked, he asked how somebody else was doing? He
always asked hi about that? You know, he never people,
So how you doing? He's like, how you doing? Like, okay,
so now I'm not talking about you anymore. We're talking
about me. Is it pretty amazing? It's pretty amazing. So
so that that's so you were there for twelve years,

(11:55):
so you saw massive growth, correct, I mean, and you
just kind of saw that happen, and so so now
you know, did did you was there any chance to
continue to grow? Obviously grow at that Facility's kind of
an open ended question, but but I mean, what did

(12:17):
you do next? I mean, what what what led to
that decision to kind of kind of leave and not leave,
but you know, kind of go on.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
So well, that's a great question, Rich because I've said
I look back on my career, I've had like four
dream jobs, and that was really the first one was
being because I started as director of golf and then
two years into it, the general manager left to buys
on golf course and so I.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
The general manager. So imagine for a second.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
And for all your listeners, here's a not so young
but fairly young female who's now the general manager of
one of the most prominent world renowned golf facilities and
in the United States America.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
It was a pretty cool experience.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
To go through that and to and kind of be
a little bit of a groundbreaker when it came to that.
You know, I say to women all the time that
that had the opportunity to be a general manager that
at that golf course when women weren't getting.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Head pro jobs.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's correct, That is correct. That is absolutely hand over
fist correct, because you know you referenced, you know, you
get your PGA Class A in ninety two or thereabouts
or whatever, and I know you would have gone to
business schools then, and I guarantee you there you could
count on one hand, the number of females in those business.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Schools, yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, let alone the people that on that one hand
that actually went on to become a head professional, become
a general director of golf, become a general manager. I
mean that that those those fingers started to disappear very quickly,
because then up with one and as you well.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Well asked you, I say that, you know, I was.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
I was accompanied in some way or another by what
I would say, three other people. Renee Powell, Yeah, no,
Renee and Nancy Henderson, who's now works in a prominent.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Position with the LPGA.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
She was she was a general manager of the LPGA
International Golf Course there some some point in my career.
She she got that position and did great and of
course Susan Wailey and everything that she's done.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Right, right, So so yeah, so that's that's really that. Yeah.
So okay, so let's put it this way. You're you're
riding in a pretty fast car. Let's put it that way, right,
because we're going, we're going pretty fast, and and and
we have more gears, and we're going to keep going
and keep going and keep going. So all right, so
all right, so then I have to ask you this

(14:48):
question before we end this segment. So, World Golf Hall
of Fame. We already mentioned Byron Nelson. Probably who of
all the people that you met there in the Hall
of Fame, who's who's your favorite? And it's okay to
have a favorite, it really is.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, well, I.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Would absolutely say, without a doubt, it's Kathy Whitworth, the
winning is golf professional ever eighty eight wins and just
as humble and sweet and unassuming, and you know she
she doesn't get the credit she deserves because she's so
all those things I just said, so humble and assuming

(15:27):
and doesn't she's as just as you said about Byron,
and she's the first to deflect.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Attention, right, Yeah, I never thought you'd say, you know what,
that's interesting. I never I'm thinking to myself, Okay, she's
say Palmer necklace. You know Palmer, because Palmer's pretty awesome.
But I didn't. I didn't see that one coming. That's
pretty good. That's really cool, she, I tell you, And
you are right, she does not get the amount of

(15:53):
credit for being as dominant and as good as she
was because that that that lady could just fly go
and she's a winner.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I mean she she didn't. She only had seven majors,
which if you say that's only set, you know only
but she just won, you know, she just was driven
to win and she just won a lot.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Wow. That's incredible. Okay. So, and when we come back
from this commercial break, we're going to talk about how
we go from Florida to where you are right now
and a really really, really cool job that you have
right now, and we'll talk about that. We'll talk about
a bunch of different things with Kathy Harbin. This is
the Rich Commo Golf Show. Welcome back to the Rich
Como Golf Show. We are joined this week by Kathy Harbin,

(16:37):
who is We're going to get into some incredible accomplishments
and we've already talked about many of them, but we
left off. You're at the World Golf Hall Fame. You're
Director of Golf of the World Golf Village and the
general manager of the World Golf Village. So what's next.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well, I loved it, as I said before, I loved
operations that I was close to kind of the heart
of a lot of other things that were happening there
because it was the PGA Tours there, the World GoF
Foundation was there, and so it was about the time
that we nationally decided as an industry to launch this
program called Get Golf Ready. And they were doing a

(17:18):
big search about who's who're going to have, you know,
who's going to be our executive director of Golf twenty twenty,
which is the player development arm of the World Golf Foundation,
who's going to launched this? And I knew the CEO,
Steve Bona, and he and I leaned into each other and,
you know, kind of on the campus one.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Day and I said, well, how's that search going?

Speaker 3 (17:40):
And we said, you know, hundreds of resumes and he said,
I didn't see you in there. I'm like, yeah, you know,
I think it'd be really cool. I love operations, but
that would be neat.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
He said, why don't you come talk to me?

Speaker 3 (17:53):
And so we sat down and talked, and I decided
that it really is the perfect step in my career
to do something that truly benefits the golf professional because
of the instruction and the finances and that will come
this way, but also really is for the consumer in

(18:14):
an entry way into into the game that's not intimidating.
I'm very, very interested in that so so I switched
over and moved to work for the World Gock Village
or I'm sorry, World Gock Foundation as the executive director
of Golf twenty twenty and launched nationally this Get Golf
Ready program, which is still prominent day still. That's really

(18:35):
proud of it. And when it's done for a lot
of people that have entered.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
The game, yeah, you know, it's I'm going to jump
right in here because it is. It is an awesome program.
It's an awesome program. And I and obviously I'm not,
I'm not unique in this, but I kind of, you know,
manipulated the program too. You suit the facilities that I'm at,
so like I have one now that and I do

(19:03):
this every year. I do. It's called the He's Wrong
Clinic because you talk about the intimidation factor. I tell
people everything, everything a guy ever told you about the
game of golf is wrong except for me. So so
we just we just do it and we show up
and we learn, we learn how to I eliminate the
most embarrassing moment in the world is when when you

(19:24):
drive away in the golf cart for the first time
and your clubs fall off the back. You know, we
we eliminate that we know, we talk about like you know,
and the first thing we do is we just take
the intimidation air right out of the room and just say, Okay,
nobody here is ever going to get paid to play
this game, so let's just take a deep breath and
let's figure out there's a lot of ways we can

(19:45):
have fun with us. So we play, you know, we
go through the instruction phase, but we play from one
hundred yards, we play from twenty five yards, we play
from three hundred yards. We just play, and it's just
like like who cares? Like, like really, who cares? Because
they all have jobs, they all get you judged at work,
like okay, did I close out the did I close
out the loan correctly? Or did I you know, did

(20:06):
I see the last patient or whatever? Who cares? If
you made six on the part right? Who cares? And
my things?

Speaker 4 (20:14):
I absolutely love that, Rich, I really really loved that.
I'm so.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Proud of you for doing it and please that you're
doing it.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
It's just it's just so that's my whole thing. Like
we had. I had twenty three ladies in this time.
I did two sessions of it. I'm like, let's go,
let's go, let's go. So all right, so how long
did you do how long did you do get Golf ready?
How long were we there?

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I did get golf.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Ready for I was there for three years. So we
launched it for three years. It was about the time
we were we were thinking about moving it over to
the PGA America. They had, you know, more infrastructure and
things than we did, so so you're just kind of
thinking about it about that time and having those conversations.
And while that's going on, having those conversations, I get

(21:02):
a call from.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
The COO of COB Course and the CEO of COB Corps.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
But Mark Fournett called and said, hey, what you're doing now?
You know, because I was very prominent out in the
industry at that point with Get Golf Ready, I know
what you're doing now. And we've created this new position
at COB Corps invited now vice president of Golf. We've
never had a vice president of golf before, funny enough,

(21:30):
but you know, and so we've.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Created this position.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
A couple of people have brought you up as a
as a good candidate and I'd love to talk to
you about it. So we did. I went to the
Dallas that took me from Florida to Dallas with the Dallas.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
To have this conversation.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Loved what they were working on, the programming and the
growth and the elevation of the golf professionals within the company.
And so it was just now my next perfect move is.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Was to go and and moves Dallas and become the
inviceman and at the Club Corp.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, I have to tell you, you know what. I
listened to this and obviously I try to to teach
younger guys about how to advance yourself in this business
without advancing yourself in this business. And the moral of
the story is always like talk to people, talk to people,
and answer the phone. You'd be amazed what happens when
you talk to people and answer the phone. Yes, yeah,

(22:24):
I mean, I mean obviously you have, you know, impeccable credentials.
But unless unless you call that guy back, you wouldn't
be there. Unless you stop that on campus said hey,
how you doing, how's that going? You know what, you
wouldn't be there. So so go to work for Club Corps.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
And that's something to that to what you said, Rich did.
Unless I'd been out in the industry and networked came.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Up right in any of these occasions.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
So so the fact that you know, I definitely attribute
the Club Corp position for sure to the fact that
I was out in the industry. I was saying hello
to the right people. I was building relationships with the
right people. And yeah, it was that was very, very valuable.
I didn't know the tactic at the time, right, but

(23:15):
it was. But it turned out to be.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
It is. It is interesting. The other thing I tell
young young professionals is this is the older you get,
the smaller the world's going to get if you if
you want it to be, you know. I mean so
so it's like, you know, I was, I was doing
some some notes stuff with this conversation with you, and
you know, I mean, like, I know, you know who
Jay Kron is. Jay Kern is the president of the

(23:37):
National the CEO of the National Golf Course Owner Association.
Like I had him on here, he would know who
I had I talked to Don Ray, you know, I
mean like like it's just like and I know you
know who he is, and and I know you know
who that guy is and this guy is and that
lady is and things like that. And you know, even
something as obscure as this. I mean, you mentioned Susie Whaley,
the professional had the position and willing country Club before

(24:01):
I did. Actually now works for Sissy William Florida. You know,
I mean it. It's just this big circuit. So okay,
So so you do all that, and then then now
tell me how tell me what you're doing right now?
I'll just jump I'll just fast forward here.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, so right now, professionally, I own a golf course.
So seven years ago I decided that it was time
for me to buy my own golf course. And and
I'll bake back up a little bit to that story.
I've been saying I'm gonna buy a golf.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Course for years. I can tell all my friends I
want to say, I'm gonna buy a golf course.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
And in fact, in nineteen eighty eight, before I was
even a class A, I took a seminar on how
to buy a golf course. And I'm you imagine this
little girl in there with these fifty year old guys.
Probably I don't even remember, but right you know, I
was go into it. I wasn't even paying attention, but
I could imagine that you know, talking in the hallways afterwards.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
But yeah, hell is that she's in the wrong room.
There's the one you would you didn't hear, but you
probably would have heard it. She's in the wrong room.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
What is she doing?

Speaker 3 (25:14):
So, you know, they were nice to me, and I was,
you know, nice and polite and respectful and all those
things and so.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
So.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Literally almost thirty years later, in twenty seventeen, I closed
on my golf course. So almost thirty years from the
time that I took a seminar and how to buy
a golf course, I bought a golf course. And it
really was something I always thought I would do. And
the funny story about how I finally turned the corner
with it.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
I was with Club Corp.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
And we had just bought a company that had like
six golf courses and I was traveling the one i'd
blown in and I was traveling and you know, killing
time went on. The driver called a friend of mine
and I said, what are you doing. I'm going to
this golf course we just bought. And I said, now,
when I buy my golf course, this is the kind
of course I wanted. I had a big driving ring,
a lot of programs, small slubhouse and expenses, very player friendly.

(26:06):
And my friends says, you've been telling me you're gonna
buy a golf course in twenty years, Are you really
gonna buy a golf course?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
And that was like it was just the right timing for.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
Everything, right.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
It was like, that was that time. I was like,
you know what it is time.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
So I started looking and and so I started looking
and had some you know, found some investors and kind
of worked through some stuff like that, and then I
found this little golf course in Paris, Texas, a couple
of hours from where I was living at the time.
I drove out here by myself on a Saturday just
to look at it because I found him online by myself.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Actually, you know, I had a broker I was working.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
With, and it was a golf course I could buy
by myself.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
It was reasonable price and.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Had all things I wanted. It was a small town.
I really felt like I could make an impact and
in the you know, in the town.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
In the city, and and so I bought it.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Wow, and I've owned it out for seven years.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
So we could say that it took you thirty years
to learn from that seminar, It only took you thirty
years to figure it out. You know all those things
they told you that seminar. It just took thirty years
for it to land. That's okay, you know, it's all right.
I try, try, I took thirty years for it to sinking.
So that's what he was saying back in nineteen eighty
eight when I'm looking at the seminar, that's what he

(27:21):
was meaning. So, well, okay, so tell me a little
bit about tell me a little bit about it.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Well, so it's fifty eight hundred yards from the very tip,
so it's you know, it's eighteen holes par sent me too,
but it's very reasonable to play. And I've got a
membership that, you know, the whole t at forward thing.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
And everyone yep talked about how oh my members won't
move up there, you know, too much pride, not mine.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
These guys will be like, hey, I turned seventy tomorrow,
can I go play the reds now?

Speaker 2 (27:50):
I mean, they can't wait to up. That's their whole
your the whole premises. I want to play better golf,
I want to score lower, I want to beat my buddy.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Right. Well, see that's the interests. That's what I said
up about the That's why I said about the fun
thing of it. It's like nobody's gonna get paid in here,
So why why are you paying me to not have fun?
That makes no sense, right, I mean, I mean it's
it's like, you know, do you go to the bowling
alley and ask them to extend the lane? Now you don't?

(28:20):
It's just well, actually, be couse, you have you have
a sizable driving range, correct, Yeah, big driving range.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
In fact, I have a big, really nice driving range.
But a few years ago I put in twelve covered
bays and put in the top tracers technology.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
So man, you're you're you're the cutting edge when the
cutting edge wasn't even invented.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
Yet as early adopter.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, there you go. There you go. So let me
ask you something. How much how much of the quote
unquote I don't know. I don't know how you have
the off course kind of you know, the simulator world,
How how much activity do you get?

Speaker 2 (29:00):
It was a game changer for me, honestly.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
You know, I had kind of my regular golfers that were,
you know, we were kind of kicking the can down
the road a little bit with a facility and you know,
just barely making money. And kind of you know, it's
a small town, small facility, but when I put that in,
it was a game changer for me and for the
facility and it and what I've seen is that it
brings in a completely different demographic and those people are

(29:25):
playing golf now. Also those kids, those you know, those
teenagers and those twenty somethings that just came out here
for the entertainment of it are now golfers.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, that's like that. That's like Don Ray said, if
I could, if I could make a simulator the gateway
drug to my first tea, you're dang right on buying it. Yeah,
you dang right on buying it. I'll buy I'll buy
as many of them as I can because that's you know,
obviously it's a not a drug, but I mean it's
a it's an avenue. And I would rather have them

(29:56):
on the first tee from your simulator than than not,
you know, because if they're going to go somewhere else. So,
since you don't have enough to do, talk to me,
because I'm talking that third segment, we're going to talk
about all the really cool things you're doing. You're doing
at Pine Ridge, but talk to me about what the

(30:16):
what you're doing with the LPGA Legends.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, yeah, so you know, everything we do is off
a labor of love, right.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
So I've been fortunate to serve on the national board
for the PGAY of America currently president of the National
Golf Course Owners Association.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
So so Jay and I are close obviously.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
And you know a ton of committees and things that
and and really most of my efforts have been around
elevating the game and the communities, elevating the game where
people feel like they have access to it, and certainly
now showing respect to the people who help.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Make it what it is today.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
So so, a couple of years ago is I was
asked to help the LPJ Legends. They were they had
done a great job with Dame Blaylock when she was
running it for a while and she kind of created
it and she really she was really fantastic at it,
but you know, she wanted to hand it off to
someone and she handed off to a couple of people

(31:14):
and it just didn't really take off. So so I
was asked to help and I said no for about
eight months.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Just the time, and you know, I just didn't know
how I could do it. But they weren't having any
less finding anyone, so I said, I will, I'll see
what I could do. So so a few ten and
a half years ago, I jumped in and started trying.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
To help the legends.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
And it's been really rewarding to do that because my
goal at the onset was to give these fantastic, incredible
players a place to play and something to play for, right,
and so year one I really was just kind of
trying to find my.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Way and didn't have a whole lot going on. I
was trying to find like a big sponsor, you know,
or something.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
And and that didn't really pan out. So so in
year two, I'm like, all right, forget about all that
the big stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
I'm just gonna start having event. I'm just gonna go
to communities where I know people and where the golf
the golfing community has to be accepted to the LPGA
in the past, and I'm just gonna start have an event.
So so the first that next year, I had four
events and the and the ladies got to play for
I think the total person was about.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
Two hundred and twenty thousand between.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Those events, So, you know, going from nothing to that
was was yes. And so so now I'm into doing
all those again. I have those four events again, and
I've got just a lot of other things that are
in the works.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
We were struggling with the.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
LPGA Senior Championship, and then of course the U s
GA steps up, big time, steps up and creates the
US Senior when it's open, right, and that person is
a million dollars, and so that got the LPGA attention also,
and so they're like, well, we you know, listen, there
are girls kind of and so they've jumped in a

(33:07):
little bit more and really started to see the value
in elevating the LPJ Senior Championship. And so we had
a great tournament this year out in Colorado, I'm sorry,
in Utah and Angela Stanford won. So so he has
to be forty five years of age, you're older. And
and so she's now back to back champions. She won

(33:28):
her first year, in her second years. You know champions
who are also and that they go out and they
you know, early on win. But but you know, I
just had an event in.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
Atlanta last month.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Julianster played, Angela played, Lord DS played. We got a
lot of great players that they just want to get
out and play.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
You know, they're competitive, that's what they do, that's their fire,
and they just want someplace to play.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
And and so it's been it's been really good. We
had an event here in Texas. Lord Davies came and
played in it. You know, it's like they just want
to play, right right, I want to compete.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
They want to compete.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Well, when we come back from this commercial break, we're
going to talk a little bit more about that because
I have an idea for you. I'll float on the
radio and then we're going to talk about some some
of the really cool programs you're doing. You're doing at
the at the home office. As David Letterman used to say,
So this is the rich Comboll Golf Show. Welcome back
to the rich Combwall Golf Show. We were joined this

(34:24):
week by Kathy Harbin and we and she is the
she's a lot of things. I you know, I don't
want to say any one thing, but we we ended
the last segment about the Legends Tour of the LPGA
Legends Tour, and she was talking about places to play
and things like that. And Kathy, I know that I

(34:47):
know you had an event, and I know Chris Cheddar
is Chris chedder Is is a friend of this show.
And actually I've known Chris for a long time and
Missy Bertie Audie was on our show and I don't
I don't know she's been out to play yet, but
I know Chris has. And you know, it's funny you
mentioned Jane Blaylock because Jane Blaylock won at in Wheeling.

(35:12):
We had, you know, they had I was not here.
They had an LPGA tour event for six or seven
or maybe even eight years in Wheeling, West Virginia. And
you know, that's that might be one of the things
that you and I talk about in the near future,
that maybe we can get some of the legends that

(35:35):
come play in Wheeling, because I think that I think
that would be because you mentioned going to places where
they used to play. Yeah, that would make kind of
makes sense to me anyway. Yeah, so so we can
we can certainly talk about that. But I'll tell you
what you are lucky to hang around with. First of all,

(35:55):
I think it's really cool that you hang out. You
get to hang out with them because you are right,
they like to play and they are good at it.
They are good at it. I mean, you know, Chris
Chedder was on this show and she was talking to
me about all the surgeries she had in off seasons
and things like that, and I'm like, and she's talking
to me, and I'm like, my god, like this this

(36:18):
girl can play. Yeah, yeah, I mean she just can
flat play. And and the best one when she said
she finished second to Onnica in one of Onnica's six
million US opens she won and and she said, I
actually won the event. Anica beat us all by ten,
So I actually won the event. I don't know what
event she was playing at. So so okay, So let's

(36:41):
circle back to to Pine Ridge. Talk to me about
talk to me about some of the Obviously we talked
about the top Tracer and some of the simulators and
things like that. But talk to me about some of
the programs that that you're running there. I know, Tyler,
you know Tyler Texas is I'm sorry, Tyler in Paris, Texas. Tyler,

(37:01):
Texas is where we're all Campbell's from. But but but
is a small town. Ye. And I know you mentioned
the word impact, and I know your career well enough
to know you've made an impact every step you've made.
So talk to me about some of the programs you
have run in there.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Well, when my first first got here, I spent I
spent time before we even closed on it, just kind
of spending time around here. And I'd say I spent
six months here and before I saw a female or
a junior golfer. And so it was it was very
much the demographic that you think of when you think

(37:40):
of golf. And and so that was really one of
my main focuses is that I really wanted to bring
the families out and for the fun of it. I know,
I've seen it, You've seen it, the value that that
having golf in your life adds to your life.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
And so one of my one of things I said
was that.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
My primary goal is to elevate golf in Paris texts.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
And we certainly have been able to do that.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
So we created women's programs, we created the junior golf programs,
we started we did the.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
PK Junior League. We did you know, there's a variety
of things.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
That that grow the game, grow the game.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, and you know, then we kind of reached out
to the community, especially with the top Tracer up.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
We we started having concerts on Friday night and.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
We brought the whole community out.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
We do five k race and just a variety of
things that that lead to people seeing that that this
can be a hub.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
For the community.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
You don't want me to run the five k, do you?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
You don't have to.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
It's so funny though, but if you stay on the
car path, the entire way around this golf course is
exactly a five k and and.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Well, that's that's that's an incredible piece of math right there.
That's an incredible piece of math right there. You know,
I don't I have to an interest of full disclosure,
I have been talked into running the half marathon in
Pittsburgh next year. Yeah, it's nice, thank you. It's easy
for you to say that. You sit down there and

(39:22):
say nice and yeah. So I have a persistent daughter
that said, you know, we can do this, we can
do this, we can do this. So all right, so
let me let me focus on one area here that
is really important obviously for the game of golf PG
of America. All that stuff is and you mentioned it,

(39:43):
you couldn't find a junior golf You didn't see a
junior golfer. Tell me how massive your program is now,
because I know it is.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, it's it's crazy, and it's it's like, so I
couldn't find a junior golfer.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
We just I just started making it f family friendly.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Right, So we've started with it.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
We've got some of the the moms out playing, and
you know, usually start with the kids and they bring
them mom. So we've got the moms out playing and
they brought the kids and and so so that you know,
kids feed on each other, right, so we get we
go from nothing to you know, thirty kids in our
first year of having a PJ junior league, and then
it just keeps growing.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
From there and and so now and and really what
what we're doing is.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Is to try to focus on on the kid. I
always tell the parents and sometimes you can imagine I've
got to back the parents up a little bit, but
I always sell the fun first. Yeah, and I know
you want your kid to play tour on the tour
one day, but I teach fun first. And I want
when when you say, little Johnny, we're head to the
golf course, I want little Johnny to be as excited

(40:52):
as you could possibly be ye to be coming to
the golf course. And so so that was our focus
and and now we just recently had a change in
the school schedule where they're going four days, and so
we've got like Friday is free.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
So oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Really yeah, they're going four days. So I sent a
text to all you know, all parents, is like, listen,
we're gonna we're gonna run a.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Program out here for you on Friday. We know you're
looking for you something for your kids to do.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
And it's lunch.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
It's Top Trace or Time Go Fish program, you know,
their favorite game on there. And then then we go
play until two o'clock. And so I just go out
with them and walk out with them and and you know,
play as many hole as we can get in before
the parents come get them at two.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
That is incredible. That's awesome. That is awesome. So all
I really need to do is convince the state of
West Virginia to change the school schedule of four days
a week, and then I that is that is incredible opportunity.
So now, okay, so you started with thirty, So can
you throw a number at me how many you have
in there now.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
In that program?

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Probably have to fifty overall kids because they have all had.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
Soccer and things like that.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Wow, we've.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
I mean, it might be close to two hundred, you know,
by the time me to add up all the kids
that that we that we that I've taught personally, you know,
it's as busy as I am rich and you hear
my crazy schedule and I say, with my finger on
the pulse of a lot of different things. However, at
about three o'clock every day, I'm out teaching.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
From three to about six thirty.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Or seven, that is awesome.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Every afternoon when the kids are off school, I'm out teaching.
And it's it's because I know the value of giving
these kids golf and they're adding that to their life
and even and in fact, I want the twenty two handicappers,
you know, I want the future twenty two handicappers.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
I'll let the.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Elite instructors teach the ones that are going to go
on and you know, have great careers of.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
College careers and things.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
I want. I want the kids that just want to
love the game.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
And that's that's that's incredible, because I will tell you this.
I have I do Operation thirty six here, you know,
and the first the first play day, we had a
girl on the ninth hole. She's ever played from twenty
five yards makes a one. It's over. It's over. She

(43:26):
I don't you know what. She might never ever ever
ever make another power in her life. She might never,
but she will always play golf because she just made
a one and the and just the sheer like you
cannot there's no visual of joy until I saw her face.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
She she was with.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
She goes, she goes rich and went in. I'm like, yeah,
it did, You're exactly right. And she's like, can we
do this tomorrow? I'm like, yeah, you can, Yes, you can.
Matter of fact, you can go do it right now.
If you want, you'll go do it again. So it's
it's you know, that whole value and I you know,

(44:15):
I talk about you know I do we do inner
city I do an inner city program with some kids
in Pittsburgh and and and it's it's amazing to me.
I always say to people, teachers, parents, uncles, aunts, whoever,
there's a lot worse place for a kid to be
than a golf course.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Oh god, you're so right about that.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I mean it is. So it's just the opportunities and
then the other things. You know, you mentioned it before
about the networking thing. You know, who do they meet
like they meet, they meet you know, they meet the
guy that they don't They meet the bank, the loan officer,

(44:56):
and they meet the vice president of the bank. They
meet the super intended the schools. And it's not in
a way that like he's gonna yell at them. He's
gonna be like, this is what I do, and it's
nice to see you. And I play golf too, and
I'm not very good, but you know what, I have
fun with it. And there's a lot worse we can
do that hang out and play nine holes a lot worse.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Well, I tell people all the time that you introduce
the kids to the game of golf, even if they stop.
Let's just imagine that plenty of them stop when they
get to high school and they get boyfriends and girlfriends
and they get distracted. But the gifts you gave them
by introducing them to the game, they already have overcome
the intimidation that that comes along with entering the game

(45:39):
as an adult. And now when they're when the CEO
of the company comes in and he's looking at all
the cubicles out there and he's like, hey, my force
is canceled for tomorrow morning. Who in here can play golf, right,
you want to be the one that you want your
kid to be the one that raises their hands.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I can, right.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
I quit playing. I was playing four years ago when
I went to college. But guess what, I can go.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
I'll go, Yeah, I'll go. I can do it. I'm
not comfortable. I'm comfortable around the game.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, that's that's a really interesting way to look at that.
That's an interesting way to look at that. And you
know that intimidation factor, obviously, and you know this way
better than I do, translates to females too, because I
will tell you what you do not. You know you
do not Like I said, I do the Heuge one clinic.
And it's amazing to me. Very accomplished women professionally and personally,

(46:33):
you know, you know, moms of three kids that are
you know, doing great in school and this and that,
and she's going to work at you know, she's a nurse,
and and she's looking at me going this terrifies me. Yeah,
I'm like I'm like, okay, so and then they look
to you and me and and to other other PGA
professionals to to say, okay, you know what your job is,

(46:56):
to not make it terrifying. Is your job is to
make fun? Right? I mean, that's just that's just fascinating. Okay,
so tell me, so tell me. So you have top Tracer,
you have really cool junior programs. You gotta you know,
got get all these opportunities. What's next? I mean, what's

(47:17):
the what's the next big breakthrough for you?

Speaker 3 (47:22):
I really have started to get a little bit more
evolved in what's happening with golf entertainment in a way
that just thinking about in terms of what a great
avenue it is to enter the game, and how can
we continue to elevate that. So you've probably seen some

(47:43):
of the stats, but in twenty and fourteen, there were
three times as many people playing exclusively on a golf
course as exclusively on kind of a dolphin entertainment, right,
And now there's five million more people playing golf entertainment.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Only of the golf course.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
And yes, it's one hundred and twenty percent increase. So
so I love the fact that that has created this,
as Don said gateway, Yeah, and it's and they're and
they're loving it, and they're doing it and and they're
finding out that you know, at first, you know, maybe
they don't swing very good. But you take someone to

(48:21):
the golf court or to driving range or a top
tracer or a top golf a few times in a row,
they figure out how to hit it. Yes, I know,
and they end up just you know, loving the game
just as much.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
And those and those kind of things.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Honestly, I can go to Popped Off with some of
my friends and and uh, you know, they they hit
the center of the red target enough times in a row,
they might beat me. And that's the coolest thing in
the world, you know.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
So it's like, right, it's it's just a fun place.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
And so I'd really love to continue to see that
elevated and and see people know that opportunities. They're thirty
point nine million people who say they're interested in going
to a golf entertainment facility. They haven't done that yet.
So that's probably the next.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Big thing for me.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
And also I really want to see golf courses continue
to be welcoming.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
And I think that we're better, but we're not there yet.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
So if you if you're intimidated by the game, there's
got to be a way to create an avenue, will
you will you know that if I go to this
golf course, then I'm a new golfer. I'm going to
feel they will recognize them a.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
New golfer and they will treat me accordingly. And so
I'm working on that actually with my Adult Player Development
Committee through the PGAM America, we're working on kind of
a Welcoming Golf pro welcoming facililary or something that we
can go to the consumers with the consumer with and
say look for this seal because if you find it,
you know you can go there and be be welcome

(49:58):
as a new golfer. And and the challenge is, and
you brought this up a little bit earlier when you
said the percentage of people who.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Joined who enter the game through their father.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Part of the reason for that is, of course, you
know if you interest as a kid, that's more likely.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
How you're going to enter it. But as an adult,
we have this.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
That's happening right now where if you I started calling
it an an accompanied golfer.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
If you want to you.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Decide you like golf and you want to enter the game,
and you don't have a friend or family member who
are already playing.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
It's a that's a tough road.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
So I'm going to try to.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
I want to try to help with that, and.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
So I've started working with PG of America on search
engine optimization. Like what happens when you say learn to
play golf, new to golf, beginner golfer, and how do
we get them to the right spot where we say welcome.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
You're a new golfer, Welcome.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
You glad to have this.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, and they're not getting that right now.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
So so you know, I've always got something going on, rich,
but that's that's kind of my passion right now.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
That's awesome, that's awesome. Well, you know, shockingly enough, fifty
two minutes is flown by, and so so Kathy, I
just want to say thanks with every guest I have.
I will call you back in the fall and we'll
get we'll get a five to ten minute, you know,
briefing on how everything's going. But I got to tell
you that that the energy and the passion that you

(51:26):
bring is palpable through I guess it's a microphone on
a headset, but just it's palpable. And and I know
some days, if you're anything like me, you wonder, my god,
does anybody even notice? But I'm going to tell you
they do. They do they really do. So, I just
want you to know. I want to say thanks for
being on here today. I know you're incredibly busy. Gave

(51:48):
me a lot of time, and we'll be talking soon
to see how everything's going. We'll also be talking about
maybe bringing those legends up to West Virginia.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Absolutely, I love that. Well, thank you for the time.
I appreciate the conversation. We get to talk about my
favorite subject, which is golf.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
You bet. And this is this is the Rich Combwell
Golf Show.