May 19, 2026 • 7 mins
Ryan talks to ABC News Crime and Terrorism Analyst Brad Garrett about how violent criminals are using ChatGPT to aid their crimes.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ryan Gorman Show podcast presented by Verah and Farah,
accident attorneys from Tampa. Let's bring in ABC News Prime
and Terrorism analyst Brad Garrett is back with us. You
can follow him on x at Brad Investigates and Brad
We've been covering these latest developments in the investigation into
last year's FSU mass shooting and the revelations tied to
(00:25):
how the shooter used chat GPT for information in advance
of the attack. And I guess that's not the only
incident where chat cept has potentially played a role in
a horrific crime.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh, there is no doubt. I mean, there is a
current lawsuit against Open AI in San Francisco in reference
to a mass shooting that occurred in British Columbia that
involved the shooter of the allegations in the suit are
that he basically used the chat GPT to help facil
(01:00):
tate and plan his attack on this school. And he's
not the only example. There are a number of cases
where shooters were on some artificial intelligence site who potentially
helped them guide them through whatever. You know, the real question, Ryan,
(01:20):
is that you know, obviously it's troubling that you could
do that with chat or artificial intelligence the chat pot basically.
But you know, the question is is that what swayed
them over to commit this act or not, because clearly,
as you well know, AI hasn't been around that long,
and we certainly had a number of mass shootings prior
(01:43):
to AI existing, So it'll be a question that may
come up in this civil case.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You know, one thing we've discussed tied to all of
this because we also had an incident in the Tampa
Bay area where two University of South Florida students were murdered,
and the perpetrator in that crime also asked chat GPT
a number of different questions connected to it. And I
(02:10):
think one of the things we're struggling with is this
the same as googling information that in and of itself
might not be something you could directly connect to a crime.
When you're using a chatbot and it's interacting with you,
does that change that dynamic? And should these AI companies
(02:34):
be able to tell not just one message, like for
the FSU shooter, how many people have to be killed
in order for it to become a big media story.
You know, there are a lot of different reasons that
people that ask that question. Maybe they're doing a research
paper on mass shootings. Who knows. But when you take
all of those inquiries in their entirety, should they be
(02:56):
able to detect something's not right?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, the short answer is yes. But let me address
something else you just mentioned that is there a difference
between you and I or whomever going to Google and
saying X, and then Google tells you why. The big
difference is the chat bot is like a human and
it develops a relationship with you. And you know, this
(03:22):
is a big problem with lonely kids who end up
like spending too much time with the chatbot. Separate issue,
but the lure is the same that you've got a
compelling voice that is there to help you. And you know,
the question is what steps over the line into obviously
(03:44):
things like what kind of weapons should I use? And
I'm going to go to my school later today. I mean,
those are pretty clear examples of you need to stop that.
But two things that are maybe more subtle. And so
I think the dilemma for a and I will tell
you Rhyan, there's a huge difference between some of the
(04:04):
smaller AI companies and the bigger ones as how much
time and money they spend monitoring what is on their site.
And if you think about that any given time, Let's
say that open ai has millions of people that are
on it all the time, and how effectively can you
(04:25):
monitor that? And then secondly, when do you make a
decision that it's really stepped over a line, it's you know,
it's partly a judgment called by AI because they don't
want to be seen, you know, their company there to
make money. They don't want to be seen as just
throwing everybody's name and law enforcement, hey, you should go
check this or that out. I think they want to
go through the steps. But what I'm suggesting is there's
(04:48):
a huge variance between companies and company as to how
much time and money I think they spend on reviewing
or sort of surveiling, for lack of better terms, inappropriate
things said on their site.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
We're talking to ABC News Crime and Terrorism analyst Brad
Garrett about AI being used in the commission of crimes
and I'm wondering, you know, when I talk to chat GPT,
it's very it confirms what you say, it's encouraging and
stuff like that. So I'm wondering if there are any
cases where it almost seems like that chatbot kind of
(05:19):
encouraged someone's delusions or encouraged someone or is it just
more that it's answering questions to help people maybe find
out the best way to dispose of a body.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, it certainly has been described as being wanting to
be helpful and then providing specific information about the type
of bullets that you should use, or the best time
of the day to go to kill the bactum number
of people. I mean things like that. Obviously, if you're
(05:50):
a troubled lad who wants to go shoot up a school,
somebody in a very soft, compelling but sincere voice is
telling you here are some steps to go through. I mean, again,
did that cause them to go shoot or not? That
remains to be scenes. But you know, the question is
(06:12):
is this something that A is going to continue to
go on. I'm going to guess the answers yes, because
the nature of AI is to help you, and they can't.
They won't take that component out, and so it's so
what does that leave. It leaves what we've already the
three of us have talked about. You have to have
some sort of enforcement mechanism which costs time and money,
(06:35):
and you know that's a juggling act obviously in a
company that's a for profit situation.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, and last question for you, Brad. You know we
can point to at least three stories that we've done recently,
all tied to murders where uh, the perpetrator utilized chat GPT.
So it also seems like this is a problem that's
not going away for open AI. You're going to continue.
Probably you're going to see an increase in criminals trying
(07:02):
to use the platform to help do whatever it is
they intend to do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I think there's no doubt about that. It's like anything else, Ryan,
that if it's something that can be super helpful and reliable,
can also be used for every dark or dark thoughts.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
ABC News Crime and Terrorism analyst Brad Garrett with us
this morning, and you can follow him on X for
more at Brad Investigates. Brad, really interesting topic. Thanks so
much for taking a few minutes to come on the show.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
You're welcome. Take care.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Ryan Listen Live to have a Ryan Gorman Show on
iHeartRadio every weekday morning on WIOD in Miami, w FLA,
and Tampa.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Presented by Verah and Arah accident attorneys, Tampa,
The Ryan Gorman Show podcast presented by Verah and Farah,
accident attorneys from Tampa. Let's bring in ABC News Prime
and Terrorism analyst Brad Garrett is back with us. You
can follow him on x at Brad Investigates and Brad
We've been covering these latest developments in the investigation into
last year's FSU mass shooting and the revelations tied to
(00:25):
how the shooter used chat GPT for information in advance
of the attack. And I guess that's not the only
incident where chat cept has potentially played a role in
a horrific crime.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh, there is no doubt. I mean, there is a
current lawsuit against Open AI in San Francisco in reference
to a mass shooting that occurred in British Columbia that
involved the shooter of the allegations in the suit are
that he basically used the chat GPT to help facil
(01:00):
tate and plan his attack on this school. And he's
not the only example. There are a number of cases
where shooters were on some artificial intelligence site who potentially
helped them guide them through whatever. You know, the real question, Ryan,
(01:20):
is that you know, obviously it's troubling that you could
do that with chat or artificial intelligence the chat pot basically.
But you know, the question is is that what swayed
them over to commit this act or not, because clearly,
as you well know, AI hasn't been around that long,
and we certainly had a number of mass shootings prior
(01:43):
to AI existing, So it'll be a question that may
come up in this civil case.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You know, one thing we've discussed tied to all of
this because we also had an incident in the Tampa
Bay area where two University of South Florida students were murdered,
and the perpetrator in that crime also asked chat GPT
a number of different questions connected to it. And I
(02:10):
think one of the things we're struggling with is this
the same as googling information that in and of itself
might not be something you could directly connect to a crime.
When you're using a chatbot and it's interacting with you,
does that change that dynamic? And should these AI companies
(02:34):
be able to tell not just one message, like for
the FSU shooter, how many people have to be killed
in order for it to become a big media story.
You know, there are a lot of different reasons that
people that ask that question. Maybe they're doing a research
paper on mass shootings. Who knows. But when you take
all of those inquiries in their entirety, should they be
(02:56):
able to detect something's not right?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, the short answer is yes. But let me address
something else you just mentioned that is there a difference
between you and I or whomever going to Google and
saying X, and then Google tells you why. The big
difference is the chat bot is like a human and
it develops a relationship with you. And you know, this
(03:22):
is a big problem with lonely kids who end up
like spending too much time with the chatbot. Separate issue,
but the lure is the same that you've got a
compelling voice that is there to help you. And you know,
the question is what steps over the line into obviously
(03:44):
things like what kind of weapons should I use? And
I'm going to go to my school later today. I mean,
those are pretty clear examples of you need to stop that.
But two things that are maybe more subtle. And so
I think the dilemma for a and I will tell
you Rhyan, there's a huge difference between some of the
(04:04):
smaller AI companies and the bigger ones as how much
time and money they spend monitoring what is on their site.
And if you think about that any given time, Let's
say that open ai has millions of people that are
on it all the time, and how effectively can you
(04:25):
monitor that? And then secondly, when do you make a
decision that it's really stepped over a line, it's you know,
it's partly a judgment called by AI because they don't
want to be seen, you know, their company there to
make money. They don't want to be seen as just
throwing everybody's name and law enforcement, hey, you should go
check this or that out. I think they want to
go through the steps. But what I'm suggesting is there's
(04:48):
a huge variance between companies and company as to how
much time and money I think they spend on reviewing
or sort of surveiling, for lack of better terms, inappropriate
things said on their site.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
We're talking to ABC News Crime and Terrorism analyst Brad
Garrett about AI being used in the commission of crimes
and I'm wondering, you know, when I talk to chat GPT,
it's very it confirms what you say, it's encouraging and
stuff like that. So I'm wondering if there are any
cases where it almost seems like that chatbot kind of
(05:19):
encouraged someone's delusions or encouraged someone or is it just
more that it's answering questions to help people maybe find
out the best way to dispose of a body.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, it certainly has been described as being wanting to
be helpful and then providing specific information about the type
of bullets that you should use, or the best time
of the day to go to kill the bactum number
of people. I mean things like that. Obviously, if you're
(05:50):
a troubled lad who wants to go shoot up a school,
somebody in a very soft, compelling but sincere voice is
telling you here are some steps to go through. I mean, again,
did that cause them to go shoot or not? That
remains to be scenes. But you know, the question is
(06:12):
is this something that A is going to continue to
go on. I'm going to guess the answers yes, because
the nature of AI is to help you, and they can't.
They won't take that component out, and so it's so
what does that leave. It leaves what we've already the
three of us have talked about. You have to have
some sort of enforcement mechanism which costs time and money,
(06:35):
and you know that's a juggling act obviously in a
company that's a for profit situation.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, and last question for you, Brad. You know we
can point to at least three stories that we've done recently,
all tied to murders where uh, the perpetrator utilized chat GPT.
So it also seems like this is a problem that's
not going away for open AI. You're going to continue.
Probably you're going to see an increase in criminals trying
(07:02):
to use the platform to help do whatever it is
they intend to do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I think there's no doubt about that. It's like anything else, Ryan,
that if it's something that can be super helpful and reliable,
can also be used for every dark or dark thoughts.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
ABC News Crime and Terrorism analyst Brad Garrett with us
this morning, and you can follow him on X for
more at Brad Investigates. Brad, really interesting topic. Thanks so
much for taking a few minutes to come on the show.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
You're welcome. Take care.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Ryan Listen Live to have a Ryan Gorman Show on
iHeartRadio every weekday morning on WIOD in Miami, w FLA,
and Tampa.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Presented by Verah and Arah accident attorneys, Tampa,
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