January 7, 2026 • 7 mins
National Security Institute Senior Fellow Lester Munson talks about why the Trump administration took action against Venezuela.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's go to the hotline and bring in National Security
Institute Senior fellow Lester Munson. You can follow him for
more on x at Lester Munson, and you can check
him out on the fall Lines podcast, which you can
listen to on your iHeartRadio app Lester, it's great to
talk to you this morning, and I want to start
with the big question that I think some are trying
to oversimplify, and in some cases it feels like it's
(00:23):
in a bad faith way. The why why did the
Trump administration decide to take this kind of action against
Nicholas Maduro? And why?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Now? Yeah, it's a fair question, right, I mean, this
is a big deal what we did removing Maduro from
power in Venezuela, I think, and I think it's it's
important the administration explain the rationale. There are several reasons.
Venezuela has been a kind of a festering wound in
(00:56):
the Hemisphere for about twenty seven years since the Duro's predecessor,
Hugo Chavez came to power. They've invited Russian and Chinese
interests into our region. They've propped up the dictatorial regime
in Cuba. They've caused a massive refugee problem, with eight
million Venezuelans fleeing that country just in the last decade
(01:19):
or so, and so, the and and not to mention
the narco trafficking, which is which is a factor. Now,
there are other problems on the narco trafficking front in
the region in Venezuela is not the only component there,
but Venezuela did play a role. It's it's government has
basically been a criminal enterprise for a very long time.
And so taking out that one, you know, changing the
(01:42):
behavior of that one government addresses so many issues in
the Western hemisphere and the and President Trump has said,
we need to establish dominance in the Western hemisphere. You know,
we're we're going to do the Monroe doctrine with the
Trump corollary or the what some people are now calling
the Don Road Doctor.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Don Road doctrine. Whoever came up with that, I'm sure
Trump loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's that's going to last. And so and so,
if you want to implement a Donroad doctrine, this is
the this is the thing to do. And it doesn't
mean the US is going to go around replacing leaders
in every country, but it is does have a huge
demonstration effect on other bad actors in the region, in
Cuba and Nicaragua and wherever where you like. If the
(02:26):
President says we're coming after you, you better believe he's
actually going to back it up.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I think what you laid out is key, because
that was the point I was trying to make. It's
not just one thing. There were multiple reasons that this
action was taken against Venezuela. Although some people that are
trying to just focus on oil or something like that,
although you know that is a part of it. I mean,
(02:52):
we're hearing the president talk a lot about oil in
the aftermath of the capture of Nicholas Maduro, but there
were other components that were part of it. And I
think now the focus turns to what's next, because while
we made this big move, uh, the problem still hasn't
(03:12):
been fixed.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Correct and there's still a long way to go. And
I think the you know, the success of this don
Road doctrine will be judged not by the amazing military
operation necessarily that happened on Saturday, which was you know,
they're going to write books about that, but rather about
how this transition plays out inside Venezuela and It's important
(03:36):
to note here this is very different than what the
US did in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's almost the opposite.
In the case of Venezuela. We're not going to occupy
it militarily. We're not going to spend a trillion dollars
of taxpayer dollars to you know, rebuild the country and
change their economy and that kind of stuff. Instead, we're
going to stay out of the country and tell them
they have to fix it or there will be consequences.
(03:58):
Which I have to say is it's a much cheaper approach.
We're going to save a lot of money. At least,
we'll see if it can produce a better result than
what we saw in particularly Afghanistan, where you know, frankly,
the Taliban is back in control and arguably that whole
effort was very fraught.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
We're joined by National Security Institute Senior fellow Lester Munson.
How big of an impact could this move have on
Cuba in particular, because you know, with Secretary of State
Marco Rubio kind of spearheading this effort, that's certainly what
appears to have been the case. You know, Cuba is
(04:36):
front and center on his mind. Do you think it
could have an impact that could eventually lead to that
country being the next domino to fall.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, it certainly, it certainly could. But I think we
should all be you know, a little grounded here. Cuba.
Cuba has been a bad has has sustained this very
bad government for a long time through a lot of challenges. Yeah,
and we should we should just be very realistic here
that they, for for whatever reason, are able to kind
of keep hold of power in that in that place.
But there's no doubt Cuba was very dependent on Venezuelan money. Uh.
(05:11):
That that a kind of mutually parasitic relationship. One of
the things that happened when our guys went in to
get Maduro is they ended up killing Maduro security guys
who were all Cubans, which is which is an amazing
thing when you think about it, that that a leader
of a country would be relying on soldiers from another
country to protect himself. Uh. And and now Cuba is
(05:31):
going to lose it's it's kind of lifeline of oil
and other resources. There are going to be real challenges
in Havanah. Can the opposition there exploit that opportunity? Can
can you see change on the island. I certainly think
it's it's ripe for something to happen, but we should
we should be realistic.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Final question for you, what are you going to be
watching for moving forward out of Venezuela to really assess
whether or not this is continuing on the right track
or there could be setbacks down the road.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Watch watch the behavior of Delsi Rodriguez. She's the vice
president who became basically the acting president of Venezuela when
when Maduro had to leave. And watch what she says
and does. She said she's willing to work with the
Trump administration. That's a huge positive sign that if and
if she can implement some of these changes, push out
(06:23):
the Russians and the Chinese, get rid of the rest
of the Cubans, UH, do the right thing on rebuilding
the country, then we're going to we could be on
our way to elections and you'd see like real democratic
governance in that country in the next year or two,
which would would be an amazing outcome and good for
Venezuela and Venezuelan's but also US and the Western Hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
National Security Institute Senior Fellow Lester Munson, you can check
them out for more on x at Lester Munson and
you can listen to them on the fault Lines podcast,
which you can find on your iHeartRadio app for more
great analysis. Lester really appreciate the time and insight this morning.
Thanks so much much. Thanks Ryan, The Ryan Gorman Show
on NewsRadio WFLA. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram at
(07:08):
Ryan Gorman Show, and find us online at ryangormanshow dot
com
Let's go to the hotline and bring in National Security
Institute Senior fellow Lester Munson. You can follow him for
more on x at Lester Munson, and you can check
him out on the fall Lines podcast, which you can
listen to on your iHeartRadio app Lester, it's great to
talk to you this morning, and I want to start
with the big question that I think some are trying
to oversimplify, and in some cases it feels like it's
(00:23):
in a bad faith way. The why why did the
Trump administration decide to take this kind of action against
Nicholas Maduro? And why?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Now? Yeah, it's a fair question, right, I mean, this
is a big deal what we did removing Maduro from
power in Venezuela, I think, and I think it's it's
important the administration explain the rationale. There are several reasons.
Venezuela has been a kind of a festering wound in
(00:56):
the Hemisphere for about twenty seven years since the Duro's predecessor,
Hugo Chavez came to power. They've invited Russian and Chinese
interests into our region. They've propped up the dictatorial regime
in Cuba. They've caused a massive refugee problem, with eight
million Venezuelans fleeing that country just in the last decade
(01:19):
or so, and so, the and and not to mention
the narco trafficking, which is which is a factor. Now,
there are other problems on the narco trafficking front in
the region in Venezuela is not the only component there,
but Venezuela did play a role. It's it's government has
basically been a criminal enterprise for a very long time.
And so taking out that one, you know, changing the
(01:42):
behavior of that one government addresses so many issues in
the Western hemisphere and the and President Trump has said,
we need to establish dominance in the Western hemisphere. You know,
we're we're going to do the Monroe doctrine with the
Trump corollary or the what some people are now calling
the Don Road Doctor.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Don Road doctrine. Whoever came up with that, I'm sure
Trump loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's that's going to last. And so and so,
if you want to implement a Donroad doctrine, this is
the this is the thing to do. And it doesn't
mean the US is going to go around replacing leaders
in every country, but it is does have a huge
demonstration effect on other bad actors in the region, in
Cuba and Nicaragua and wherever where you like. If the
(02:26):
President says we're coming after you, you better believe he's
actually going to back it up.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I think what you laid out is key, because
that was the point I was trying to make. It's
not just one thing. There were multiple reasons that this
action was taken against Venezuela. Although some people that are
trying to just focus on oil or something like that,
although you know that is a part of it. I mean,
(02:52):
we're hearing the president talk a lot about oil in
the aftermath of the capture of Nicholas Maduro, but there
were other components that were part of it. And I
think now the focus turns to what's next, because while
we made this big move, uh, the problem still hasn't
(03:12):
been fixed.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Correct and there's still a long way to go. And
I think the you know, the success of this don
Road doctrine will be judged not by the amazing military
operation necessarily that happened on Saturday, which was you know,
they're going to write books about that, but rather about
how this transition plays out inside Venezuela and It's important
(03:36):
to note here this is very different than what the
US did in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's almost the opposite.
In the case of Venezuela. We're not going to occupy
it militarily. We're not going to spend a trillion dollars
of taxpayer dollars to you know, rebuild the country and
change their economy and that kind of stuff. Instead, we're
going to stay out of the country and tell them
they have to fix it or there will be consequences.
(03:58):
Which I have to say is it's a much cheaper approach.
We're going to save a lot of money. At least,
we'll see if it can produce a better result than
what we saw in particularly Afghanistan, where you know, frankly,
the Taliban is back in control and arguably that whole
effort was very fraught.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
We're joined by National Security Institute Senior fellow Lester Munson.
How big of an impact could this move have on
Cuba in particular, because you know, with Secretary of State
Marco Rubio kind of spearheading this effort, that's certainly what
appears to have been the case. You know, Cuba is
(04:36):
front and center on his mind. Do you think it
could have an impact that could eventually lead to that
country being the next domino to fall.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, it certainly, it certainly could. But I think we
should all be you know, a little grounded here. Cuba.
Cuba has been a bad has has sustained this very
bad government for a long time through a lot of challenges. Yeah,
and we should we should just be very realistic here
that they, for for whatever reason, are able to kind
of keep hold of power in that in that place.
But there's no doubt Cuba was very dependent on Venezuelan money. Uh.
(05:11):
That that a kind of mutually parasitic relationship. One of
the things that happened when our guys went in to
get Maduro is they ended up killing Maduro security guys
who were all Cubans, which is which is an amazing
thing when you think about it, that that a leader
of a country would be relying on soldiers from another
country to protect himself. Uh. And and now Cuba is
(05:31):
going to lose it's it's kind of lifeline of oil
and other resources. There are going to be real challenges
in Havanah. Can the opposition there exploit that opportunity? Can
can you see change on the island. I certainly think
it's it's ripe for something to happen, but we should
we should be realistic.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Final question for you, what are you going to be
watching for moving forward out of Venezuela to really assess
whether or not this is continuing on the right track
or there could be setbacks down the road.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Watch watch the behavior of Delsi Rodriguez. She's the vice
president who became basically the acting president of Venezuela when
when Maduro had to leave. And watch what she says
and does. She said she's willing to work with the
Trump administration. That's a huge positive sign that if and
if she can implement some of these changes, push out
(06:23):
the Russians and the Chinese, get rid of the rest
of the Cubans, UH, do the right thing on rebuilding
the country, then we're going to we could be on
our way to elections and you'd see like real democratic
governance in that country in the next year or two,
which would would be an amazing outcome and good for
Venezuela and Venezuelan's but also US and the Western Hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
National Security Institute Senior Fellow Lester Munson, you can check
them out for more on x at Lester Munson and
you can listen to them on the fault Lines podcast,
which you can find on your iHeartRadio app for more
great analysis. Lester really appreciate the time and insight this morning.
Thanks so much much. Thanks Ryan, The Ryan Gorman Show
on NewsRadio WFLA. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram at
(07:08):
Ryan Gorman Show, and find us online at ryangormanshow dot
com
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.