August 16, 2026 • 33 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to iHeartRadio Communities, a public affairs special focusing on
the biggest issues impacting you this week.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Here's Manny Munoz. I am Manny Munoz.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Thank you for tuning in to iHeartRadio's Communities. our weekly
public affairs show where we try to bring you conversations
that'll help you better understand important issues or maybe just
some interesting topics. Either way, I do hope you'll stick
around for the next half hour. And if you have
any comments, questions, or suggestions, please feel free to reach
out on Instagram. My handle is at I O D Manny.
(00:36):
That's at I O D M A N N Y.
Now let's get on with the show. Back-to-school shopping is
a yearly ritual, but for a lot of families right now,
it's also becoming a financial burden. Let's go inside some
new numbers with LendingTree's Chief Consumer Finance Analyst, Matt Schultz. Matt,
I appreciate the time. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Your latest numbers show $ 858 is the number that might
sound pretty manageable until Americans look at the big picture.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah. There's no question that $ 858 is a lot
of money. When you consider that the price of everything
seems to be rising, so many people are living on
a tight budget, living paycheck to paycheck. So when you're
talking $ 800, $ 900 plus, that's significant money. No question about it.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How did you guys come up with that $ 858 number?
What exactly does that signify?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well, what that signifies is that we started off with
data from the National Retail Federation from 2025, and then
basically looked at spending in the categories of electronics, clothing, shoes,
(02:04):
and school supplies, and then applied... consumer price index data
to basically extrapolate out what these costs looked like in
previous years. And what we found is really interesting, which
was that spending hasn't really changed much going all the
(02:26):
way back to 2019. So before the pandemic and part
of it is because, uh, the price of electronics. So
like computers and tablets and things like that has actually
fallen a little bit in that period. And it's, and
it's allowing people to spend less.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So the back to school spending is almost unchanged, but
because of inflation, everything is costing, what was it?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
More or something like that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah. Those are really crazy numbers because most people
have not gotten a 26% raise since 2019.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
No, most people surely have not.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So people aren't getting any more. They're getting actually less
for a lot more.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
What we're seeing is that people are spending about the same,
like we said, since.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
2019 on.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And the truth is that while the cost of clothing
and school supplies and shoes and things like that have
gone up, people's spending has roughly stayed flat. And again,
some of that is that the price of electronics and
the spending of electronics has fallen off a little bit.
(03:48):
But some of that is also almost certainly that people
have been more thoughtful about about their spending on back
to school because they've had to be because they're dealing
with high prices in other spaces.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And now we're seeing the prices for those electronics, a
lot of them anyway, go up because of the.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Demand on RAM memory and things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
A couple more minutes here with Matt Schultz. He is
LendingTree's chief consumer finance analyst. You talk about the K-shaped economy.
How does that show up when it comes to back
to school shopping?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, we see the K-shaped economy in so much of
what we talk about. But here, I think it's a
situation where You have some people who are feeling good
about things and don't mind spending more on back to
school because they're not worried about taking on a little debt,
paying a little bit of interest. But then you have
the flip side with people who are really struggling and
(04:49):
who are dialing back their spending because they really need to.
And that all adds up to about 70%. flat spending
which is which is what we saw.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Our families do you think keeping laptops tablets other devices
so much longer because they simply can't just afford to replace.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Them yeah there's definitely some of that um and it's
it's a smart thing i mean so much of Back-to-school
spending is about getting things that may– or replacing things
that may still be in perfectly fine shape. So that
backpack or that lunchbox or those shoes, you may not
(05:30):
need to replace it. So it's okay.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Are there parts of the country that will spend a
lot more than that $ 858 average and parts of the country.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That will spend less?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, what we found is that the places that will
spend the most are places that you would expect, kind
of in the northeast and kind of coastal sort of places.
But what was the most interesting was the burden that
various areas of the country face, because you're talking about
(06:03):
maybe $ 100 or so difference in spending from the highest
state to the lowest state. But the burden that that
money creates is more significant. So in the deep South
in particular, the burden of that back to school spending
is more significant than it is in some higher income
(06:28):
areas like California and Massachusetts, places like that.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, it's shocking that it's only a hundred dollar difference
from the most to the least.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, it was an interesting finding that most places around
the country are spending roughly similar with a little bit
of wiggle on back to school, even though their incomes
are significantly different.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
How much of a difference?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I know here in Florida, where I am, we have
a tax-free holiday, tax-free shopping period, right, for kids. for
back-to-school supplies. I know other states have that as well.
How significant can those be? Those could really lead to
big savings, right?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, I'm in Texas and we have that too. And
it can be significant when you're talking about, in Texas, 6%
to 8% savings. And while there's no guarantee that retailers
won't bump up their prices a little bit to make
up a little bit of the difference, it can still
(07:33):
certainly be significant savings. And it's important for people to
understand that those sorts of holidays can be really useful,
but also just shopping around and looking at bargain bins
and dollar stores and Clearance racks in different places than
you would normally shop. All that stuff can make a
real difference.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
A couple more minutes here with Matt Schultz. He is
LendingTree's chief consumer finance analyst.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Do you see people making mistakes? Can people make.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Mistakes while trying to save money for back-to-school shopping that
will actually cost them?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah. One big mistake that people can make is
just going in without a plan and also relying too
heavily on their credit cards. Because credit cards can be
a great tool, especially if you collect rewards and that
sort of thing, and it can help extend your budget
(08:30):
a little bit. But it also makes it really easy
to overspend. So that's something that's really important to avoid.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Online shopping versus brick and mortar shopping. We do really
have more resources at hand to be able to find
out where we could get the best deals these days.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
You find that people, because it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Is mostly just regular school supplies, don't take advantage of
those things in bargain shop.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, I definitely think that people could do more bargain
shopping in almost any aspect of life. But certainly with
back-to-school shopping, we're creatures of habit when it comes to shopping.
And it's true with groceries and on down the line,
(09:18):
we tend to go to the same places and buy
the same things. But if you can break out of
your routine, you can save yourself some money. It doesn't
mean that you have to drive across town to save
a dollar on a lunchbox. But if you take the
time to shop around a little bit and be smart
(09:41):
about that whole process, it can add up to some savings.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So let's close it out with your best advice for
our listeners. If they still haven't finished their back-to-school shopping,
what should they prioritize?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
What should they cut corners on?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Different for everybody. It's about understanding how much you can
afford and what really matters to you most. It's going
to be different for everybody down the line.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
LendingTree.com is the website where you can go find out
more information. He is Matt Schultz, LendingTree's Chief Consumer Finance Analyst.
Really appreciate the time. And the information.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Best of luck.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You're listening to iHeartRadio Communities, our weekly public affairs show.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I am Manny Munoz.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
If you have any thoughts, comments, or questions, please feel
free to reach out to me on Instagram. My handle
is at IODManny. That's at I-O-D-M-A-N-N-Y. As we approach the
25th anniversary of September 11th, many Americans are reflecting not
just on what happened that day, but how it changed
(10:48):
the world we live in. Scott Gibbs has written Toward
the Turning, Rethinking the Meaning of 9-11, A Clash of Civilizations,
and A Postmodern World, and he joins us now.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Scott, thanks so much for the time.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Well, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
What pushed you to write this book and to write
it now for the 25th anniversary?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah, sure. Actually, well, it started as a germ of
it started just after 9-11. I was, you know, like
so many of us were trying to understand what happened
after the initial shock wore off. I was in graduate
school at the time for getting a degree in clinical psychology,
and I wrote a final paper for one of my
(11:33):
classes about you know, sort of why 9-11 happened, focused
on Islam and Islamism. And my professor said, you know, Scott,
this is pretty interesting. You ought to think about getting
it published. So I rewrote some things and ended up
submitting it to the Journal of Humanistic Psychology, went through
(11:54):
sort of a two-year peer review process, and ended up
being published in 2005. Part of that sort of going
through that process, I realized that I was sort of
uncomfortable with having focused on one side of the dynamic. Clearly,
there was a lot of rhetoric or information out there,
(12:17):
you know, Osama bin Laden and sort of the Islamist
groups talking about all the things that the West had done.
And so it was clearly a dynamic there that needed
to be unpacked to try to really understand what what
had happened and why. And so that the, the article
then led me to expand, look at both sides, try
(12:40):
to understand what was going on at a deeper level.
And that whole process took some time. So, uh, you know,
fast forward, here we are today.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Uh, what, what is the title toward the turning mean?
Speaker 4 (12:54):
It comes in part from the philosophy of a guy
named Martin Pettigrew talks about the turning and basically, different
times in history, there have been turnings of the way
we see ourselves and the way we see our world. So,
for example, the Enlightenment comes up in the late 17th century, etc.,
(13:17):
and we go from a predominantly Christian world in the West,
in particular, to what we think of today as sort
of modernity. You know, focus on the individual, progress, science,
et cetera. That's a completely different world than the Christian
world before that, the Middle Ages and before. And so
(13:38):
the idea is, can we do that again to some
degree with, you know, a turning towards something that looks
a little bit more or that's more conducive to a
global world, an interconnected world, the reality that we are
connected with one another. It's sort of a systems-type world,
(14:02):
if that makes sense, as opposed to we are subjects,
opposite objects in the world looking for control. So I
don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole
necessarily on this subject, but that is the turning. It's
the hope that we can adjust how we see ourselves
in the world toward you know greater uh harmony.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Right we're speaking with scott gibbs he's the author of
toward the turning rethinking the meaning of 9-11 the clash
of civilizations and a post-modern world clash of civilizations uh
when when people hear that term that phrase what do
you think they get wrong about it what does it mean.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Well it comes from uh Political scientist, Sammy Huntington, who
wrote this back in the 90s, I believe, a book,
originally a paper called The Class of Civilizations, trying to
understand what the world of international affairs was going to
look like after the fall of the Soviet Union. So
(15:08):
we had these sort of two poles, communism and liberal democracy,
the United States and the Soviet Union. when the Soviet
Union's gone, now we've got a world where it's sort
of a unipolar world. And he was trying to understand, like, okay,
what's the nature of conflict going to look like now?
And his thesis was that there were different blocks, civilizational blocks,
(15:35):
that were going to have conflict around the edges, meaning
where they connected. And I think he's got some of
that right, which is we see a place like Ukraine,
for example, where They are half in the West, sort
of Russia wants them back in the fold, and it's
this fault line where there's conflict. Israel is a little
(15:56):
bit the same. So there was a lot of pushback
against that thesis. People didn't like the fact that he
used clash, that it was inevitable, that we were just
going to have conflict, et cetera, that nations were. What determined,
not civilization, but the thing I think he got right
(16:18):
but didn't open the door to was this idea of identity,
civilizational identity he focused on, but identity itself being important
across whether it's a nation or a group. and how
these identities really influence group dynamics sometimes to really bad ends.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You are a psychotherapist, right?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And I guess your career was getting started when you
wrote this thesis. How did that, your background, and how
you changed the further in your career you got, change
the way.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
You look at some of these issues that you address
in the book?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, sure. I have a real... you know, sort of
passionate interest in psychology and religious studies and philosophy and
in trying to help people heal division and solving conflict.
I have it at the sort of local level in
the room with a couple and I have it across society.
(17:19):
And so the two have informed each other over the years.
You know, I will, when I'm, you know, sort of
giving these interviews or talks, I will often use examples
from couples' work that apply to group dynamics, meaning, for example,
a couple comes in and they're in gridlock fighting. One
(17:44):
of them's very critical, one of them's very defensive, and
around and around we go. We don't actually talk about
what the fundamental problems are, the fundamental feelings are. And
in truth, that is Exactly what goes on in America,
for example, between the left and the right. Different identities,
different values, different ways of seeing the world. We're not
(18:06):
negotiating those very well.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And we're not trying to understand one another at all
because we don't speak anymore.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Right, right. And the not understanding, it just keeps us
locked in these, you know, vicious cycles. Sometimes fire are
out of control, right? And people die. Charlie Kirk is
a victim of, you know, this whole division that has occurred. And,
you know, other, you know, violence against other politicians, etc.
And just, you know, the gridlock that occurs around policy, etc.
(18:37):
We don't problem solve. We get stuck in the rhetoric,
just like a couple does. And instead of like really
trying to, as you say, understand what the other person's saying,
express that we understand that and then trying to talk
about it and negotiate it.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Speaking with Scott Gibbs, he's the author of Toward the Turning,
Rethinking the Meaning of 9-11, the Clash of Civilizations and
a Postmodern World. What do you mean when you talk
about inherited identities?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
What does that mean?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Well, we are all, we kind of take for granted
that we're American. I was raised evangelical Christian, right? That,
you know, we're from the Northeast or the Midwest or
whatever your identity tends to be. We were, you know,
we use socialized in that, but it's inherited, meaning we..
Speaker 2 (19:31):
We're born into it.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
We're born into it. That's exactly right. And we're born
into it, brought up in it, and we take it
for granted. And that that's just the way things are.
And if we were born in a different time or
a different place, we'd have a different identity.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
We'd believe in a different God. We'd have different culture,
all of those things. So how does that tie into 9-11?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
First of all, that identity has a huge influence on
what we do, who we elect, what our behaviors are,
what our policies are, both in the Islamic world and here.
When our identities, when we feel threatened, usually, in some way,
our identities, pardon me, they narrow down, they become more
(20:18):
rigid and dogmatic, they become dichotomous, they amplify in their
sort of feeling, right? We dehumanize people. That's fundamentalism. that's
down a path or a recipe for disaster, particularly if
we've got a group mass movement, right? Then you're headed
toward genocide, apartheid, war, right? The fury of war or fervor.
(20:43):
And so it's that identity that not only influences our behaviors,
but that is the risk in hardening of something much
worse happening, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I guess that the point is that extremism, regardless what
it's over, is the problem, right?
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yes. And I guess the deeper problem is extremism, meaning,
you know, we see it in little ways. Like, as
you say, we don't understand. We're not listening. We're closed off.
I mean, that's just on a continuum of extremism. We're
not listening. We're not being open and fluid, right? And so... fundamentalism,
(21:28):
extremism is the overt challenge, but we have to like
look at where that comes from and try to mitigate
that risk before it sort of takes on a life
of its own. And we can try to do practical
things to minimize extremism. But for me, the fundamental sort
of possibility is to have a different understanding of who
(21:53):
we are, which is to say something along the lines of,
You know, we understand as we're being socialized into an
identity that part of that identity acknowledges that it's that,
which is to say it's one of many that it
could be. It's not the truth of the way things are.
There are other ways of seeing the world, and we
(22:16):
can hold our identity loosely. It's not so important to
our self-esteem, to our sense of control or safety in
the world that it sort of has a risk of overpowering.
And the better understanding we have around that, the less
risk there is of it spiraling into fundamentalism. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
This isn't a political book, right? It's not meant to
be divisive.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
This focuses more on the psychology of 9-11, what happened
and why, over the politics of it, right?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Yes. In fact, I take... I do my best to–
I think I say in there I'm an equal opportunity critic.
I would like to– I look at both sides of
the issue. I'm not trying to pick a side, so
to speak. Right. Some people don't like that at all.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I don't feel like I can do my job if
I pick a side and try to, you know, help
us better understand what's going on here so we can
transcend it. So, no, it's not meant to be political
at all. Though I will say people who's I mean,
I do touch on a number of different identities, you know,
(23:32):
religious identities, national identities. And when people see themselves in that,
they tend not to like what I have to say
because I'm pushing on things that they hold as given.
and it sort of can feel like an attack on
me and mine, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I would imagine people from different backgrounds will respond differently,
kind of like you were talking about the inherited identities.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
This book will be viewed differently by people of different identities.
Speaking with Scott Gibbs, author of Toward the Turning, Rethinking
the Making of 9-11... the clash of civilizations and a
postmodern world, 25 years removed. What is it about the
9-11 story that you think maybe has been most forgotten
(24:23):
over time?
Speaker 4 (24:26):
There was a moment right afterward when we were, we
in the West and in large swaths of the world
and the Muslim world too, I think. I mean, you know,
that's more complicated, but that was united in just a
sense of, um, little shock and sadness and that we
(24:47):
were unified in that, in the sense of we don't
want the world to be this way. Right. That gave
way to us and them, you know, you're with us
or you're against us. Um, uh, you know, the march
of freedom, some of the Bush language, et cetera. And,
(25:09):
you know, it, That led on a cascade to where
we are today in some degree, at least a strain
of it. And, you know, that we can be united
maybe around this and that we don't want this kind
of a world.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Maybe it was the last time that we all felt united.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Like we were all in this together. We're all Americans.
Didn't matter if you were black or white, if you
were a liberal or a conservative, didn't matter what your
religion was. Uh, we all felt like we were in
it together. And I don't think we've had another time
in the last 25 years where it felt that way.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, no, I, uh, I agree a hundred percent. I mean, I'm, I'm,
you know, this, I don't know if this is my
politics exactly, but it is my sensibility, which is I'm,
I'm longing for, hoping for someone who leads in a
way that calls on the better part of ourselves. Sure.
In inspiration toward real unity. I mean, I kind of,
(26:11):
it's a little bit challenging for me. I don't know
if I roll my eyes, but I am bothered by
so many people saying we're so divided. You know, we
just need to get together and then turn around and
do these things. Right, right. And, you know, politicians in
particular are, you know, because they are trying to divide
and consolidate power, you know, in some way they don't
(26:35):
have an interest in, you know, unity.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, it suits them more to keep us divided. No,
that's the way we're more active politically.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Is this a book of hope?
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Yes, I'd like to think so. I mean, you know,
I'm personally... uh, I'm pretty skeptical that this, the challenges
we're in right now are going to change anytime soon,
but I'm a fool about humanity, I guess was what
I would say that we will, we will understand some
of these things eventually and come to grips with them and,
(27:12):
you know, eventually, uh, reach a better place. So yeah, I, I,
I think it is. I mean, I'm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, we will persevere, right, I guess is what
I'm getting from you. I guess, last but not least,
there's a lot of younger readers who were not alive
or old enough to remember really 9-11 clearly.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
What do you hope they would learn from it, reading
your book?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, I mean, I guess in that regard, all they
really know is sort of the division they've been a
part of. Uh, uh, today, I mean, I mean, one
thing I, I, I like the, the place where we
were just at the whole, you know, and that we
can be united, but I would, I would say, um,
(28:04):
to be really thoughtful about their participation in the division.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Young people in particular tend to be really passionate, and
it's really fantastic about the change and the transformation. But
in part, there can be not a listening that doesn't
occur in that as well, and makes them dogmatic and
uncompromising themselves. They think they are acting against fundamentalism, when
(28:36):
in reality... They are on a slippery slope headed in
that direction.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Exacerbating it, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
And so, you know, maybe if we're connecting it loosely
to the sort of events, the shock that occurred that,
you know, had some sense of unity, that, you know,
we all just sort of look in the mirror and say,
how are we participating in the division? And maybe ask ourselves,
are we really committed to, like, to trying to unify things,
(29:07):
if that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, each one of us should look at ourselves in
the mirror, right?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Scott Gibbs, author of Toward the Turning, Rethinking the Meaning
of 9-11, the Clash of Civilizations, and a Postmodern World,
certainly a book that will get you thinking about how
you feel. Scott, best of luck with it. I really
appreciate the time today.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Oh, thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I am Manny Munoz.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I appreciate you listening to iHeartRadio's Communities this week. As always,
if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, reach out
to me on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
My handle is at at I O D Manny. That's
at I O D M a N N Y.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And that'll do it for another edition of I heart
radios communities.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I'm Manny Munoz until next time.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
From the Money Talks investment coach, John Arnold Studios, this
is 570 WKBN Youngstown, an iHeartRadio station, guaranteed human.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
This program is furnished by the program participants.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
The following program.
Welcome to iHeartRadio Communities, a public affairs special focusing on
the biggest issues impacting you this week.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Here's Manny Munoz. I am Manny Munoz.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Thank you for tuning in to iHeartRadio's Communities. our weekly
public affairs show where we try to bring you conversations
that'll help you better understand important issues or maybe just
some interesting topics. Either way, I do hope you'll stick
around for the next half hour. And if you have
any comments, questions, or suggestions, please feel free to reach
out on Instagram. My handle is at I O D Manny.
(00:36):
That's at I O D M A N N Y.
Now let's get on with the show. Back-to-school shopping is
a yearly ritual, but for a lot of families right now,
it's also becoming a financial burden. Let's go inside some
new numbers with LendingTree's Chief Consumer Finance Analyst, Matt Schultz. Matt,
I appreciate the time. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Your latest numbers show $ 858 is the number that might
sound pretty manageable until Americans look at the big picture.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah. There's no question that $ 858 is a lot
of money. When you consider that the price of everything
seems to be rising, so many people are living on
a tight budget, living paycheck to paycheck. So when you're
talking $ 800, $ 900 plus, that's significant money. No question about it.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How did you guys come up with that $ 858 number?
What exactly does that signify?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well, what that signifies is that we started off with
data from the National Retail Federation from 2025, and then
basically looked at spending in the categories of electronics, clothing, shoes,
(02:04):
and school supplies, and then applied... consumer price index data
to basically extrapolate out what these costs looked like in
previous years. And what we found is really interesting, which
was that spending hasn't really changed much going all the
(02:26):
way back to 2019. So before the pandemic and part
of it is because, uh, the price of electronics. So
like computers and tablets and things like that has actually
fallen a little bit in that period. And it's, and
it's allowing people to spend less.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So the back to school spending is almost unchanged, but
because of inflation, everything is costing, what was it?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
More or something like that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah. Those are really crazy numbers because most people
have not gotten a 26% raise since 2019.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
No, most people surely have not.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So people aren't getting any more. They're getting actually less
for a lot more.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
What we're seeing is that people are spending about the same,
like we said, since.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
2019 on.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And the truth is that while the cost of clothing
and school supplies and shoes and things like that have
gone up, people's spending has roughly stayed flat. And again,
some of that is that the price of electronics and
the spending of electronics has fallen off a little bit.
(03:48):
But some of that is also almost certainly that people
have been more thoughtful about about their spending on back
to school because they've had to be because they're dealing
with high prices in other spaces.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And now we're seeing the prices for those electronics, a
lot of them anyway, go up because of the.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Demand on RAM memory and things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
A couple more minutes here with Matt Schultz. He is
LendingTree's chief consumer finance analyst. You talk about the K-shaped economy.
How does that show up when it comes to back
to school shopping?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, we see the K-shaped economy in so much of
what we talk about. But here, I think it's a
situation where You have some people who are feeling good
about things and don't mind spending more on back to
school because they're not worried about taking on a little debt,
paying a little bit of interest. But then you have
the flip side with people who are really struggling and
(04:49):
who are dialing back their spending because they really need to.
And that all adds up to about 70%. flat spending
which is which is what we saw.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Our families do you think keeping laptops tablets other devices
so much longer because they simply can't just afford to replace.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Them yeah there's definitely some of that um and it's
it's a smart thing i mean so much of Back-to-school
spending is about getting things that may– or replacing things
that may still be in perfectly fine shape. So that
backpack or that lunchbox or those shoes, you may not
(05:30):
need to replace it. So it's okay.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Are there parts of the country that will spend a
lot more than that $ 858 average and parts of the country.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That will spend less?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, what we found is that the places that will
spend the most are places that you would expect, kind
of in the northeast and kind of coastal sort of places.
But what was the most interesting was the burden that
various areas of the country face, because you're talking about
(06:03):
maybe $ 100 or so difference in spending from the highest
state to the lowest state. But the burden that that
money creates is more significant. So in the deep South
in particular, the burden of that back to school spending
is more significant than it is in some higher income
(06:28):
areas like California and Massachusetts, places like that.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, it's shocking that it's only a hundred dollar difference
from the most to the least.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, it was an interesting finding that most places around
the country are spending roughly similar with a little bit
of wiggle on back to school, even though their incomes
are significantly different.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
How much of a difference?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I know here in Florida, where I am, we have
a tax-free holiday, tax-free shopping period, right, for kids. for
back-to-school supplies. I know other states have that as well.
How significant can those be? Those could really lead to
big savings, right?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, I'm in Texas and we have that too. And
it can be significant when you're talking about, in Texas, 6%
to 8% savings. And while there's no guarantee that retailers
won't bump up their prices a little bit to make
up a little bit of the difference, it can still
(07:33):
certainly be significant savings. And it's important for people to
understand that those sorts of holidays can be really useful,
but also just shopping around and looking at bargain bins
and dollar stores and Clearance racks in different places than
you would normally shop. All that stuff can make a
real difference.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
A couple more minutes here with Matt Schultz. He is
LendingTree's chief consumer finance analyst.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Do you see people making mistakes? Can people make.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Mistakes while trying to save money for back-to-school shopping that
will actually cost them?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah. One big mistake that people can make is
just going in without a plan and also relying too
heavily on their credit cards. Because credit cards can be
a great tool, especially if you collect rewards and that
sort of thing, and it can help extend your budget
(08:30):
a little bit. But it also makes it really easy
to overspend. So that's something that's really important to avoid.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Online shopping versus brick and mortar shopping. We do really
have more resources at hand to be able to find
out where we could get the best deals these days.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
You find that people, because it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Is mostly just regular school supplies, don't take advantage of
those things in bargain shop.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, I definitely think that people could do more bargain
shopping in almost any aspect of life. But certainly with
back-to-school shopping, we're creatures of habit when it comes to shopping.
And it's true with groceries and on down the line,
(09:18):
we tend to go to the same places and buy
the same things. But if you can break out of
your routine, you can save yourself some money. It doesn't
mean that you have to drive across town to save
a dollar on a lunchbox. But if you take the
time to shop around a little bit and be smart
(09:41):
about that whole process, it can add up to some savings.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So let's close it out with your best advice for
our listeners. If they still haven't finished their back-to-school shopping,
what should they prioritize?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
What should they cut corners on?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Different for everybody. It's about understanding how much you can
afford and what really matters to you most. It's going
to be different for everybody down the line.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
LendingTree.com is the website where you can go find out
more information. He is Matt Schultz, LendingTree's Chief Consumer Finance Analyst.
Really appreciate the time. And the information.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Best of luck.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You're listening to iHeartRadio Communities, our weekly public affairs show.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I am Manny Munoz.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
If you have any thoughts, comments, or questions, please feel
free to reach out to me on Instagram. My handle
is at IODManny. That's at I-O-D-M-A-N-N-Y. As we approach the
25th anniversary of September 11th, many Americans are reflecting not
just on what happened that day, but how it changed
(10:48):
the world we live in. Scott Gibbs has written Toward
the Turning, Rethinking the Meaning of 9-11, A Clash of Civilizations,
and A Postmodern World, and he joins us now.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Scott, thanks so much for the time.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Well, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
What pushed you to write this book and to write
it now for the 25th anniversary?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah, sure. Actually, well, it started as a germ of
it started just after 9-11. I was, you know, like
so many of us were trying to understand what happened
after the initial shock wore off. I was in graduate
school at the time for getting a degree in clinical psychology,
and I wrote a final paper for one of my
(11:33):
classes about you know, sort of why 9-11 happened, focused
on Islam and Islamism. And my professor said, you know, Scott,
this is pretty interesting. You ought to think about getting
it published. So I rewrote some things and ended up
submitting it to the Journal of Humanistic Psychology, went through
(11:54):
sort of a two-year peer review process, and ended up
being published in 2005. Part of that sort of going
through that process, I realized that I was sort of
uncomfortable with having focused on one side of the dynamic. Clearly,
there was a lot of rhetoric or information out there,
(12:17):
you know, Osama bin Laden and sort of the Islamist
groups talking about all the things that the West had done.
And so it was clearly a dynamic there that needed
to be unpacked to try to really understand what what
had happened and why. And so that the, the article
then led me to expand, look at both sides, try
(12:40):
to understand what was going on at a deeper level.
And that whole process took some time. So, uh, you know,
fast forward, here we are today.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Uh, what, what is the title toward the turning mean?
Speaker 4 (12:54):
It comes in part from the philosophy of a guy
named Martin Pettigrew talks about the turning and basically, different
times in history, there have been turnings of the way
we see ourselves and the way we see our world. So,
for example, the Enlightenment comes up in the late 17th century, etc.,
(13:17):
and we go from a predominantly Christian world in the West,
in particular, to what we think of today as sort
of modernity. You know, focus on the individual, progress, science,
et cetera. That's a completely different world than the Christian
world before that, the Middle Ages and before. And so
(13:38):
the idea is, can we do that again to some
degree with, you know, a turning towards something that looks
a little bit more or that's more conducive to a
global world, an interconnected world, the reality that we are
connected with one another. It's sort of a systems-type world,
(14:02):
if that makes sense, as opposed to we are subjects,
opposite objects in the world looking for control. So I
don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole
necessarily on this subject, but that is the turning. It's
the hope that we can adjust how we see ourselves
in the world toward you know greater uh harmony.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Right we're speaking with scott gibbs he's the author of
toward the turning rethinking the meaning of 9-11 the clash
of civilizations and a post-modern world clash of civilizations uh
when when people hear that term that phrase what do
you think they get wrong about it what does it mean.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Well it comes from uh Political scientist, Sammy Huntington, who
wrote this back in the 90s, I believe, a book,
originally a paper called The Class of Civilizations, trying to
understand what the world of international affairs was going to
look like after the fall of the Soviet Union. So
(15:08):
we had these sort of two poles, communism and liberal democracy,
the United States and the Soviet Union. when the Soviet
Union's gone, now we've got a world where it's sort
of a unipolar world. And he was trying to understand, like, okay,
what's the nature of conflict going to look like now?
And his thesis was that there were different blocks, civilizational blocks,
(15:35):
that were going to have conflict around the edges, meaning
where they connected. And I think he's got some of
that right, which is we see a place like Ukraine,
for example, where They are half in the West, sort
of Russia wants them back in the fold, and it's
this fault line where there's conflict. Israel is a little
(15:56):
bit the same. So there was a lot of pushback
against that thesis. People didn't like the fact that he
used clash, that it was inevitable, that we were just
going to have conflict, et cetera, that nations were. What determined,
not civilization, but the thing I think he got right
(16:18):
but didn't open the door to was this idea of identity,
civilizational identity he focused on, but identity itself being important
across whether it's a nation or a group. and how
these identities really influence group dynamics sometimes to really bad ends.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You are a psychotherapist, right?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And I guess your career was getting started when you
wrote this thesis. How did that, your background, and how
you changed the further in your career you got, change
the way.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
You look at some of these issues that you address
in the book?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, sure. I have a real... you know, sort of
passionate interest in psychology and religious studies and philosophy and
in trying to help people heal division and solving conflict.
I have it at the sort of local level in
the room with a couple and I have it across society.
(17:19):
And so the two have informed each other over the years.
You know, I will, when I'm, you know, sort of
giving these interviews or talks, I will often use examples
from couples' work that apply to group dynamics, meaning, for example,
a couple comes in and they're in gridlock fighting. One
(17:44):
of them's very critical, one of them's very defensive, and
around and around we go. We don't actually talk about
what the fundamental problems are, the fundamental feelings are. And
in truth, that is Exactly what goes on in America,
for example, between the left and the right. Different identities,
different values, different ways of seeing the world. We're not
(18:06):
negotiating those very well.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And we're not trying to understand one another at all
because we don't speak anymore.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Right, right. And the not understanding, it just keeps us
locked in these, you know, vicious cycles. Sometimes fire are
out of control, right? And people die. Charlie Kirk is
a victim of, you know, this whole division that has occurred. And,
you know, other, you know, violence against other politicians, etc.
And just, you know, the gridlock that occurs around policy, etc.
(18:37):
We don't problem solve. We get stuck in the rhetoric,
just like a couple does. And instead of like really
trying to, as you say, understand what the other person's saying,
express that we understand that and then trying to talk
about it and negotiate it.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Speaking with Scott Gibbs, he's the author of Toward the Turning,
Rethinking the Meaning of 9-11, the Clash of Civilizations and
a Postmodern World. What do you mean when you talk
about inherited identities?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
What does that mean?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Well, we are all, we kind of take for granted
that we're American. I was raised evangelical Christian, right? That,
you know, we're from the Northeast or the Midwest or
whatever your identity tends to be. We were, you know,
we use socialized in that, but it's inherited, meaning we..
Speaker 2 (19:31):
We're born into it.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
We're born into it. That's exactly right. And we're born
into it, brought up in it, and we take it
for granted. And that that's just the way things are.
And if we were born in a different time or
a different place, we'd have a different identity.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
We'd believe in a different God. We'd have different culture,
all of those things. So how does that tie into 9-11?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
First of all, that identity has a huge influence on
what we do, who we elect, what our behaviors are,
what our policies are, both in the Islamic world and here.
When our identities, when we feel threatened, usually, in some way,
our identities, pardon me, they narrow down, they become more
(20:18):
rigid and dogmatic, they become dichotomous, they amplify in their
sort of feeling, right? We dehumanize people. That's fundamentalism. that's
down a path or a recipe for disaster, particularly if
we've got a group mass movement, right? Then you're headed
toward genocide, apartheid, war, right? The fury of war or fervor.
(20:43):
And so it's that identity that not only influences our behaviors,
but that is the risk in hardening of something much
worse happening, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I guess that the point is that extremism, regardless what
it's over, is the problem, right?
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yes. And I guess the deeper problem is extremism, meaning,
you know, we see it in little ways. Like, as
you say, we don't understand. We're not listening. We're closed off.
I mean, that's just on a continuum of extremism. We're
not listening. We're not being open and fluid, right? And so... fundamentalism,
(21:28):
extremism is the overt challenge, but we have to like
look at where that comes from and try to mitigate
that risk before it sort of takes on a life
of its own. And we can try to do practical
things to minimize extremism. But for me, the fundamental sort
of possibility is to have a different understanding of who
(21:53):
we are, which is to say something along the lines of,
You know, we understand as we're being socialized into an
identity that part of that identity acknowledges that it's that,
which is to say it's one of many that it
could be. It's not the truth of the way things are.
There are other ways of seeing the world, and we
(22:16):
can hold our identity loosely. It's not so important to
our self-esteem, to our sense of control or safety in
the world that it sort of has a risk of overpowering.
And the better understanding we have around that, the less
risk there is of it spiraling into fundamentalism. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
This isn't a political book, right? It's not meant to
be divisive.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
This focuses more on the psychology of 9-11, what happened
and why, over the politics of it, right?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Yes. In fact, I take... I do my best to–
I think I say in there I'm an equal opportunity critic.
I would like to– I look at both sides of
the issue. I'm not trying to pick a side, so
to speak. Right. Some people don't like that at all.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I don't feel like I can do my job if
I pick a side and try to, you know, help
us better understand what's going on here so we can
transcend it. So, no, it's not meant to be political
at all. Though I will say people who's I mean,
I do touch on a number of different identities, you know,
(23:32):
religious identities, national identities. And when people see themselves in that,
they tend not to like what I have to say
because I'm pushing on things that they hold as given.
and it sort of can feel like an attack on
me and mine, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I would imagine people from different backgrounds will respond differently,
kind of like you were talking about the inherited identities.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
This book will be viewed differently by people of different identities.
Speaking with Scott Gibbs, author of Toward the Turning, Rethinking
the Making of 9-11... the clash of civilizations and a
postmodern world, 25 years removed. What is it about the
9-11 story that you think maybe has been most forgotten
(24:23):
over time?
Speaker 4 (24:26):
There was a moment right afterward when we were, we
in the West and in large swaths of the world
and the Muslim world too, I think. I mean, you know,
that's more complicated, but that was united in just a
sense of, um, little shock and sadness and that we
(24:47):
were unified in that, in the sense of we don't
want the world to be this way. Right. That gave
way to us and them, you know, you're with us
or you're against us. Um, uh, you know, the march
of freedom, some of the Bush language, et cetera. And,
(25:09):
you know, it, That led on a cascade to where
we are today in some degree, at least a strain
of it. And, you know, that we can be united
maybe around this and that we don't want this kind
of a world.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Maybe it was the last time that we all felt united.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Like we were all in this together. We're all Americans.
Didn't matter if you were black or white, if you
were a liberal or a conservative, didn't matter what your
religion was. Uh, we all felt like we were in
it together. And I don't think we've had another time
in the last 25 years where it felt that way.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, no, I, uh, I agree a hundred percent. I mean, I'm, I'm,
you know, this, I don't know if this is my
politics exactly, but it is my sensibility, which is I'm,
I'm longing for, hoping for someone who leads in a
way that calls on the better part of ourselves. Sure.
In inspiration toward real unity. I mean, I kind of,
(26:11):
it's a little bit challenging for me. I don't know
if I roll my eyes, but I am bothered by
so many people saying we're so divided. You know, we
just need to get together and then turn around and
do these things. Right, right. And, you know, politicians in
particular are, you know, because they are trying to divide
and consolidate power, you know, in some way they don't
(26:35):
have an interest in, you know, unity.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, it suits them more to keep us divided. No,
that's the way we're more active politically.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Is this a book of hope?
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Yes, I'd like to think so. I mean, you know,
I'm personally... uh, I'm pretty skeptical that this, the challenges
we're in right now are going to change anytime soon,
but I'm a fool about humanity, I guess was what
I would say that we will, we will understand some
of these things eventually and come to grips with them and,
(27:12):
you know, eventually, uh, reach a better place. So yeah, I, I,
I think it is. I mean, I'm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, we will persevere, right, I guess is what
I'm getting from you. I guess, last but not least,
there's a lot of younger readers who were not alive
or old enough to remember really 9-11 clearly.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
What do you hope they would learn from it, reading
your book?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, I mean, I guess in that regard, all they
really know is sort of the division they've been a
part of. Uh, uh, today, I mean, I mean, one
thing I, I, I like the, the place where we
were just at the whole, you know, and that we
can be united, but I would, I would say, um,
(28:04):
to be really thoughtful about their participation in the division.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Young people in particular tend to be really passionate, and
it's really fantastic about the change and the transformation. But
in part, there can be not a listening that doesn't
occur in that as well, and makes them dogmatic and
uncompromising themselves. They think they are acting against fundamentalism, when
(28:36):
in reality... They are on a slippery slope headed in
that direction.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Exacerbating it, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
And so, you know, maybe if we're connecting it loosely
to the sort of events, the shock that occurred that,
you know, had some sense of unity, that, you know,
we all just sort of look in the mirror and say,
how are we participating in the division? And maybe ask ourselves,
are we really committed to, like, to trying to unify things,
(29:07):
if that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, each one of us should look at ourselves in
the mirror, right?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Scott Gibbs, author of Toward the Turning, Rethinking the Meaning
of 9-11, the Clash of Civilizations, and a Postmodern World,
certainly a book that will get you thinking about how
you feel. Scott, best of luck with it. I really
appreciate the time today.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Oh, thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I am Manny Munoz.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I appreciate you listening to iHeartRadio's Communities this week. As always,
if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, reach out
to me on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
My handle is at at I O D Manny. That's
at I O D M a N N Y.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And that'll do it for another edition of I heart
radios communities.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I'm Manny Munoz until next time.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
From the Money Talks investment coach, John Arnold Studios, this
is 570 WKBN Youngstown, an iHeartRadio station, guaranteed human.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
This program is furnished by the program participants.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
The following program.
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