May 6, 2026 • 26 mins
Thom talks with the Clermont County Veterans Services group about the real meaning of Memorial Day. Also, Pastor Chad explains how war can be justified for Christians.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, here we go, welcome back to the Morning
Show on seven hundred. It's easy for me to say,
we do it each and every Wednesday, the first Wednesday
of every month. And here we are the first Wednesday
in the month of May, where we welcome in our
friends from the Claremont County Veterans Service Commission, Executive Director
Steve Belzo, Kenny Williamson, Lou Gordon along today as well, Luken. Well,
(00:27):
nice to have you look here Lou with us today.
All right, Look, we've got Memorial Day coming up. We
do I think a lot of people out there, maybe
not a lot, there's certainly some that wonder what is
different about the way we honor our veterans on Memorial
Day compared to Veterans Day.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You know, Tom, it's a great question because a lot
of people see it as how many days the veterans
get pay It's everybody that's sounds a barbecue grill.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Come on, everybody, come on, come.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
On, Oh my gosh, there's a big difference in Memorial
Day and veterans and so listen, brother, We've been in places,
in smaller churches where it's Memorial Day, all veterans stand
up and be recognized, and here comes Veterans Day. All
veterans stand up and recognized. There's there's meaning in words.
(01:30):
I know, Tom, it's strange, but words have meaning. It's
called memorial and so you went to Aunt Jane's memorial
because she passed away. So Memorial Day is not about
the veterans who are still standing on to or breathing
the air on this side of the earth. And so
we do a disservice to those who have died for
(01:53):
the benefits of our freedom, for our country in time
of war, and that is Memorial Day. We are there
to recognize we live in this free world because of
the sacrifice of many, amen. And so it's not for
those still breathing having to have served to stand up
(02:13):
and be recognized.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I've been guilty of this, and I learned a number
of years ago that to no. No. But I think
a lot of people they are well intentioned when they
say to happy Memorial Day to somebody. But it is
a solemn day, in.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Fact, absolutely somber right, especially for those who have served
and have brothers and sisters that they lost in a
combat arena. And then to say happy Memorial Day, what
is not an bounce of happiness in this envelope of
this day.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Right, So what do you say to somebody then, Hey,
thanks to your family for their service, thanks to your
dad for their service.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What well, if you were asking me, like Haysty, happy
Memorial Day, my response is it's only happy because of
the death of those who sacrificed their life for our freedom.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Right, so I have to find a way to turn it. See,
but I have to take this thing around. I don't
want to blast somebody who means well, but I also
want to educate.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
And a lot of people still do it, but hopefully
there are a few more people that maybe have done
it in the past, Like I said, guiltiest charge I
have done in the past and then became enlightened for
lack of a better term, and just getting on the
right path. So maybe if there's one of you out
there that learns a the difference between Memorial Day and
Veterans Day b realizes that we don't say happy Memorial Day,
(03:35):
then look, we're all better off today. Why is Memorial
Day sometimes known as Decoration Day?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah? You know, it wasn't actually put it as.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
A national holiday until nineteen seventy seventy one, right, right,
but this goes all the way back to the Civil War, right,
it's AE hundred plus years later. And so originally we
believe there are multiple stories upwards of three of how
what we know now as Memorial Day actually started, and
(04:05):
back then it was started as a decoration day. One
of the theories is that down in South Carolina are
African American soldiers who fought in the Civil War their
families because we had all African American cemeteries, we still
had the segregationists going on, We're decorating the graves of
their war soldiers with flowers. At this period at the
(04:28):
end of May. Obviously April showers bring May flowers, and
therefore flowers are abundant, so they're decorating the graves. And
then somebody in Pennsylvania started to do the same, and
then DC and it just continued to grow. But everybody
started claiming we're the beginning, but it truly goes back
to just the Civil War and decorating the graves of
(04:49):
the soldiers with flowers of those who serve. So that's
how it became a decoration day. But that later on
we changed the name to Memorial We are memorializing those
of multiple wars now who have given.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Their life for our freedom.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Then there are the families that are left behind, right,
whether it was a husband, a father, a brother, a son,
a daughter, a mom that are recognized. How are they
recognized on now Memorial Day or in general?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Gods great, you know, I don't think we do enough
for those. There's no families and individuals, no doubt about it.
So back from World War One, when you had a
family member go off to the big World war, right
the word end all wars, families would receive a flag
they would hang in their window and it would have
a blue star on it. So big white field surrounded
by a red and a golden border around it and
(05:49):
have a blue star. And for every loved one you
had of your family that was serving will be a
blue star. So you could see flags hanging with four
and five. I mean it was an agrarian econom The
more kids you had, the better the farm win. Right,
So you would see multiple blue stars on there. But
when you lost a loved one in that war, it
would turn to gold and you would have a gold
(06:10):
star family. You may have three blue stars of one
gold star one was lost to the family, So that
became in essence, a gold star family, gold star mother,
gold star spouse to recognize one who has lost a
loved one in the battle of a war. So that's
how the gold Star mothers came about. But what happens
(06:32):
is we rightfully so we focus on the veterans who
lost their lives, But those veterans are from an extended family,
and the families are often left without. And so this
Memorial Day, instead of asking veterans, hey, would you please rise,
I have yet to hear anyone say do we have
any gold Star family?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right now that I think about it, you're right, right, yeah,
obviously let's.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Memorialize John or Jane who passed in the service.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
But what about those families.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They're the ones who need an arm around them, a hug,
a thank you from a greatful nation.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You know, it's interesting you bring this up because the
only place I can ever remember doing that. Of course,
San Diego is one of the great military towns in America,
largest naval base in the western part of America, second
only in the country or around the world to Norfolk, Virginia.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Navy seals trail out there but a big part of
San Diego Padres baseball is every Sunday, different branches of
the military come marching in in uniform, right different sections
of the ballpark. Is one of the coolest things. And
they play their you know, their fight service, right, and
it's so cool. But at every single Padres baseball game
(07:48):
they ask people not only those who are veterans, right,
but ask those who had who are family members of
veterans to stand up in a crowd. So my place,
i've ever seen it, I.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's that's sensations pretty cool, right, Yeah, that is really
that's really unique.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I didn't know the Padres did.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
That for forty or fifty years.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I mean it maybe longer than that, since it started
the franchise in the late sixties. I'm sure that that's
been every Sunday. It's one of the coolest things you
can ever see, is when they come marching in and
they've got probably I'm guessing three four hundred of them
in each different branch in a different section of the ballpark.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and they got it all timed out to play
the music when they come in, and it is so cool,
all right, But locally. Let's talk about this for a minute. Sure,
what does the VSO offer to families that have lost
members in service for our country?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
What are you guys doing?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
So there's a lot of things that can still be
done for those families.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
One, obviously, if you're going to die, if the individual
dies in combat or on active duty, the families receive
what's called a DD two fourteen.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
It is my characterization of service.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It lists everything about Steve and if Steve happened to
die while on active duty, especially in the theater of war,
all of the decorations that Steve would have received, his
family receives it on a d D two fourteen. But
a lot of times they have no idea what this means.
Is it a medal, is it a ribbon? Is it
just a hey, Steve was there. So when they bring
(09:24):
that paperwork in, we got guys that have put together
we call it a wreck, will assemble their ribbons for
Uncle Joel or son Bobby. If we have the medals,
we'll put the medals together for them. So they can
actually walk away from the office with a sort of
a shadow box of what their loved one received as
an honor of their service.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Can you go back in time and do that and
figure out for somebody like, you know, let's say for
example that you know, stuff gets lost, people move whatever
it might be right, and say your grandfather or your
father died in the military. But now all of a
sudden they were probably in some of those things at
one point in time.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Right now you can't find them. Can you replace or
no you can you can't.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Let's let's let's let's uh in potential, Okay, potential, there's
so we have a an archive division for all the branches.
Back many years ago, they were all segregated in different
locations by branch of service. There was a time in
the seventies where the archive warehouse was flooded due to
(10:28):
smoking inside and a lot of records were lost. But
they can somewhat replicate what that veteran received by microfish
or something like that. But there's a website called archive
dot gov and it's where you can submit to receive
that which your loved.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
One was honored with.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
No kidding there is.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's great, and you know, Clairemont County Veterans dot com
you can ask us to do the same. Sometimes it
comes quicker. Sometimes we might even have a copy of
their d D two fourteen down at the Recorder's office
that we can actually reassemble what Uncle Joe or Grandpa.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
We've done it for many individuals.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Well, we celebrate, and maybe that's the wrong way. Is
that the wrong word celebrate Memorial Day? I mean you
are celebrating those who died in service to the country,
even though it's somber, as you point out, solid, but
you're still celebrating what they did for us today.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I'm going to celebrate our democracy, okay, based on a
sacrifice of those who went before me, and be appreciative. Right,
I could still be somber about their life given, but
I'm appreciative because they didn't die so that I could
lay here somber. They died so I can march on
in my freedoms.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
That's what I mean. That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Absolutely, Yeah, Okay, all right, Well, I hope you guys
have an awesome Memorial Day weekend. You do such great
work at the Claremont County Veteran Service Commission. Steve Belzo,
Kenny Williamson, Lou Gordon, thank you guys so much for
coming in and look forward to seeing you after.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
A Memorial Day weekend.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Absolutely thanks for your very kind voicemail pre surgery for
me and sending your prayers. I really really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, you're marching around here smartly, So hereabout smartly we'll
find out good Lord will all right, fellas.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Why we do it Every single Wednesday we get together
with Pastor Chad Holden, lead pastor over at Horizon Community
Church that's in Newtown, Ohio, right along the bank so
the little Miami River.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Well you've been a.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Little excursion these last couple of weeks, young man. How
was the country of Greece fantastic?
Speaker 5 (12:37):
I have never been there before and did a little
Bible trek with Paul as a leader in the early church,
and when appens to Corinth, to Stesl and Nika got
to see where the original Olympic Games were performed temples
to anyone and everyone, and it was pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
You know, you mentioned Paul, and I think sometime we
ought to do a series on him because I've been
eating a great deal. I'm not so sure. And maybe
you'll you'll say, Tom or you out of your mind,
but from so much reading about him, I'm not sure.
That after Jesus, there is a more important or what's
(13:16):
the word I'm looking for, world altering, Well that would
be that'd be covering world altering. That would cover it
than Paul. I mean, the guy was just amazing guy.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah, I got actually got to stand where he stood.
So he walks into Athens. He got the Parthenon there,
which is massive. That's kind of the upper section wor
all the big temples are. Then you come down about
thirty stories and there's this massive rock, maybe the size
of your house, they called Mars Hill. And that's where
he stood and spoke for the first time and really
delivered the first message in Europe, having come a couple
(13:50):
of cities down, but his first major approach to Athens,
and he really introduces people to the facts of history
and the archaeological evidence and the predictions made hundreds of
years in advanced that Jesus Bingley says he was, and
it literally transforms Athens. And yeah, it's really our church
models built off that. You know, he says, your poets
have said, he quotes their poets. You know, our exploring service.
(14:11):
We play the band you're gonna hear James Taylor and
the who we're actually working off that model, but Paul
didn't athens there, which is quote the poets of the
culture and then show how that leads to.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Some not only plane glass, but some stained glass like
you do.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, in preparation of our topic today, and this is
something I think is going to carry over for the
next few weeks because it is a complicated topic. I
came across a book, and that's war and Christian Views
of War. Have you read the book that's called actually
War four Christian Views? It's by Robert G. Klous. Have
(14:44):
you ever seen this book? Read this book?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I have not, but I'm very prey familiar with pacidism
and just war theory and have studied pretty extensively.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Okay, all right, well, I mean we can get into
the different ones, but the first one that I want
to start with is at least one of the Christian
views of war and war theory was represented by a
fellow they quoted in here named Harold OJ.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Brown.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And this physician calls for an eager participation in war
efforts which attempt to prevent or correct outrageous injustices.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
In other words, it's.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay to have a preemptive strike against something if it
is justifiable.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Right now, we are in a war with Iran?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Is this What would you say to someone who says
there's no way you can be both a Christian and
be in favor of killing people.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Well, there's the difference between killing and murder, right, So
even any of us would say, the difference between killing
someone versus self defense, what's the different self defense is
I'm defending someone innocent myself from an unjust person trying
to hurt somebody innocent. Same example, but please shooting a sniper,
you would say, Hey, the police officer's killing is justified.
It's not murder, it's just killing because the sniper bad
(16:08):
guy was trying to kill off some innocent kids at school.
So I think it's intuitive to us to know that
there's a difference between murder and and a just killing.
That's all laid out actually in the Bible. This is
all very unique laws that trace back to whether you're
a Christian person of faith. This is rooted in Moses,
who wrote the first five books of Bible. These ideas
come out of there. Then you come into kind of
(16:29):
just war theory, and with that this kind of different
ways that people weigh these different characteristics and what is
there a just cause? So in that case he's going
to lean a little bit more liberally in you need
to and I mean that in a bad way, just
along the spectrum to say, hey, we know someone's about
to have a nuclear weapon, we know they've been threatening
us for a long time. Therefore, we don't have to
(16:50):
wait for them for the first shot to be fired
in order to be justified. That kind of where he'd
come down. Somebody else would say, well, no, actually, you
actually need to wait until the first shot is taken.
Otherwise you're presuming omniscience, and so you'd want to weigh
those two things against each other.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
But often you'll hear kind of.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Pasivistic view, which is Christians are always against violence, but
that's just not true because it doesn't really account for
evil in the world. I had a friend of mine
who is a Quaker, and he was very much held
to pacifism until he got married, and his wife one
day asked him, She said, you're telling me that if
someone came into our house had tried to kill me
(17:29):
or rape me, you wouldn't fight back, And just based
on his training, he said no, and he saw the
absolute horror in her eyes, not knowing she'd be protected.
He said, I need to go revisit this position. I
have not accurately understood evil. So I think that's kind
of where the epics part to go. But then practically,
I think what happens is history has always been filled
with war. How do you and I become courageous when
(17:53):
we're facing it? You know, war brings out the best
and worse in us. Right, we see the most courageous
acts by people we know who serve, but often it
can the news can fill us with fear and anxiety,
and we want what's happening over there? Those heroic people
we know that are being brave, We want to be
happening here. You know, it can be a lot easier
to be at ease when you know how the movie ends.
(18:14):
If you ever watched a movie and you're in the
room with somebody else and they haven't seen the movie yet,
you're not.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Too anxious and.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Get paid off, right. And that is kind of the
unique stayed glass approach, which is that when Jesus said,
there's gonna be wars and rumors of wars all through history.
But I want you to know, here's the whole book
of Revelation in two words, God wins, Evil's destroyed. And
so you still don't like anxiety, you still don't like conflict,
but you can also have this piece that's.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
Not connected to things you can't control.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
I mean, you remember Jimmy Stewart, he was surprised being
in wonderful life. He was a bomber in the World
War Two. We had like thirty missions or something. And
his dad, when he went off to war in World
War Two, he sent him a psalm from Psalm ninety one.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
He said, I want you to hold onto this.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
This is what you're going to need in war, to
lie your self, to be brave, and to know not
just your bravery, but that you know how to move
the ends and sold ninety one when he'd handed as
his son. It says God is my refuge and God
is my strength, and even unreally to war. I think
a lot of us do that. We say, I will
be at peace when you know my kids are behaved.
I'll be at peace when the Iran deal is over.
(19:18):
I'll be at peace when and we always put our peace,
and we we delegate our peace to something that's beyond
our control.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
And yet what if you knew who controls history?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
And what if you knew that my peace doesn't have
to be dependent on what the news is going to
tell me today, what the stock market is today. I
still prefer the stock market to go up. I still
prefer wars to come to an end. But you know,
if if history has any indication on what's the norm,
the norm is conflict and chaos.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
So don't tie your peace to the news.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Let me yeah, yeah, your right.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
It is a lot of this, you know, digging a
little deep here, and maybe this is overly simplistic. Does
a lot of us have to do? And we're talking
with Pastor Chad Hooven about Christianity and war and the
intersection of those two things. You know, you can say
that all of this is evil because of a fallen
(20:15):
state of humanity, right, going all the way book to
the Book of Genesis. Okay, But then at the same time,
I guess you know, you say, well, God created every
life so valuable, every single life. So you know those
two things have to intersect eventually in society.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Without a doubt.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
And that's why you're going to go back to just
war theory and didroonomy It lays out that before you
go to war. Number one, you should make a declaration
of war, so it should be actually be a formal
not just an ambush of somebody, should be a declaration.
Number two, you should try and eliminate civilian casualties. So
what we think of today and talk about in debate
today was unheard of prior to Mosaic law. I mean,
(21:00):
if somebody kills and wipes out your son, you would
then the norm would be go retaliate and kill off
the whole village.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
That was normal.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
That was in fact, even the verse you maybe heard
an eye for an eye made people think eye for
an eye, Hey you poke, I poke your eye out.
It was actually designed to be a limitter. It'd be
like saying that the punishment needs to fit the crime.
If somebody does X, your retribution shouldn't be more than X.
So it then got turned later into an excuse to
be violent. That's not what it was intended to do.
(21:29):
It was a Hebrew idiot meaning the punishment should fit
the crime. Jesus shows up and says, hey, it's not
just the punishment should fit the crime.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Whenever possible.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Let me's talking to personal ethics, not necessarily state ethics.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
He says, I want you to turn the other cheek.
I want you to try and love your enemies. But
even Paul.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
We started with Paul, and he says that God puts
governments in place to execute justice. Part of that is
to protect your citizens from threats. Part of that is
to protect the nation from foreign invaders. But him doing so,
you go back to this idea, what you and I
think is common sense was not common It comes right
out of the Bible.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
Protect civilians if you can do a commitment to war.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
And then it also says try and make a peace
treaty before you go to war.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Well that was unheard of as well, is there a way?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
And then when just war theory kind of pick that up,
they say, human beings are eternally valuable, so they should
never be thought of as fodder. So you must have
a war plan that has at least a feasible chance
of winning, because you are putting into the canon, so
to speak, the.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Eternally valuable things.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
So that just cause and the feasibility of winning got
to be pretty darn strong because of the cost you're
paying and what you're willing to do. And then obviously
sometimes evil people do evil things. You can't stop evil
people having innocence in front of themselves, so as best
you can. In the complexity of war, and that's why
they always say war as hell, it's because you're trying
(22:49):
to get rules of engagement and honor all these different
principles that are intentioned.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
All right, help me with this one, because again, in
getting through parts of this book last night, and I
try to just get through some of the main parts,
but focusing in for a minute on the Christian pacifist
which you talked about a minute ago. Okay, we hear
the term all the time, a separation of church and state, right,
(23:19):
So you know where I'm going here with this. Pacifism
is therefore, what's the word obligatory right for all of
human society. And yet you're making very accurate, solid historical
points that for the Christian there are times where you
(23:41):
know you gotta do what you got to do for
lack of a better term in fighting evil.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Is the Christian pacifist wrong?
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Well, I think everyone knows enough of the Bible to
be dangerous, and so often people know a couple verses
and they'll take the verse like Jesus saying turn the
other cheek, and they'll an entire worldview on that one verse.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
But you want to take a comprehensive view, which.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Is all right? Is that always what God said? Is
he talking there to nations or to personal ethics? Well,
that's different, because we should not take vengeance in our
own side. We should appeal to the states somebody to
be objective. That's where rules of evidence come from. That's
where having a jury comes from. All that also comes
out of Moses' law. So I think on the other side,
(24:26):
somebody who's a warmonger might only say war is always
justified and not really.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Weighing in the other side.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
So I think you want to have a comprehensive view,
and almost like a mobile sitting over a kid's crib.
There should be multiple points and counterpoints, and the Bible
often offers about twenty different values for each issue.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Personally, you're going to face, state, you're going to face.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
And what's interesting is even if you're not a person
who believes in the Bible, and God often interacts with
non Christian, non believing states a Babylon for example, Persia.
I got to see some of that when I was
over in Greece, and he holds those states accountable. Nebuchanezer
didn't believe in the God of the Bible, but God
actually held him account for how he ran his country
and how he wasn't protecting people, how he wasn't administering
(25:08):
justice properly or unfairly.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
So I do think there seems.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
To be a way in which, even if you don't
believe in the God of the Bible, there is a God,
and he would be the source of justice. He'd be
the source of right and wrong, and that there'll be
some way of evaluating what's right and what's wrong, not
just for personal ethics, but also for.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
What a nation does.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
In fact, I would say when God set up the nation,
often that's the trick when you're reading the Old Testament
is sometimes he's talking to the government, he's setting up
I think our founder said, well, we don't want the
government to set up a organized religion, right, so we
have the government telling you what you have to believe.
On the other hand, to create this separation, as if
(25:47):
that means you can't ever have any type of Christian
thinking in how you think about government, Well, that's silly, Like,
how could you ever do morality and not have some
type of philosophy behind it, some type of ethics behind it.
So it's not a separate of state government from ethics
or from a religious worldview. It's just not having the
state force or mandate one particular religion you.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Have to practice.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
But of course, in the marketplace of ideas, where of
course going to argue what is the best morality, what
is the best ethic for making decisions for people, for families,
and for states.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
And that's where Christianity has been our foundation.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
And continues to be.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
And part of that is we respect and want people
to choose to be followers of God. We don't force
people to be followers to God, and that makes us free,
fundamentally different.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Chad can't thank you enough for your time. Fascinating topic.
We'll get more into this again next week.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Thank you. Hope you have a great rest of your Wednesday.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
Two.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Please contact your local dog or cat rescue before this weekend.
Apply to adopt a dog or a cat, even foster
a dog or a cat for a few days, maybe
a week, see how it goes. This is seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,
All right, here we go, welcome back to the Morning
Show on seven hundred. It's easy for me to say,
we do it each and every Wednesday, the first Wednesday
of every month. And here we are the first Wednesday
in the month of May, where we welcome in our
friends from the Claremont County Veterans Service Commission, Executive Director
Steve Belzo, Kenny Williamson, Lou Gordon along today as well, Luken. Well,
(00:27):
nice to have you look here Lou with us today.
All right, Look, we've got Memorial Day coming up. We
do I think a lot of people out there, maybe
not a lot, there's certainly some that wonder what is
different about the way we honor our veterans on Memorial
Day compared to Veterans Day.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You know, Tom, it's a great question because a lot
of people see it as how many days the veterans
get pay It's everybody that's sounds a barbecue grill.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Come on, everybody, come on, come.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
On, Oh my gosh, there's a big difference in Memorial
Day and veterans and so listen, brother, We've been in places,
in smaller churches where it's Memorial Day, all veterans stand
up and be recognized, and here comes Veterans Day. All
veterans stand up and recognized. There's there's meaning in words.
(01:30):
I know, Tom, it's strange, but words have meaning. It's
called memorial and so you went to Aunt Jane's memorial
because she passed away. So Memorial Day is not about
the veterans who are still standing on to or breathing
the air on this side of the earth. And so
we do a disservice to those who have died for
(01:53):
the benefits of our freedom, for our country in time
of war, and that is Memorial Day. We are there
to recognize we live in this free world because of
the sacrifice of many, amen. And so it's not for
those still breathing having to have served to stand up
(02:13):
and be recognized.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I've been guilty of this, and I learned a number
of years ago that to no. No. But I think
a lot of people they are well intentioned when they
say to happy Memorial Day to somebody. But it is
a solemn day, in.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Fact, absolutely somber right, especially for those who have served
and have brothers and sisters that they lost in a
combat arena. And then to say happy Memorial Day, what
is not an bounce of happiness in this envelope of
this day.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Right, So what do you say to somebody then, Hey,
thanks to your family for their service, thanks to your
dad for their service.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What well, if you were asking me, like Haysty, happy
Memorial Day, my response is it's only happy because of
the death of those who sacrificed their life for our freedom.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Right, so I have to find a way to turn it. See,
but I have to take this thing around. I don't
want to blast somebody who means well, but I also
want to educate.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
And a lot of people still do it, but hopefully
there are a few more people that maybe have done
it in the past, Like I said, guiltiest charge I
have done in the past and then became enlightened for
lack of a better term, and just getting on the
right path. So maybe if there's one of you out
there that learns a the difference between Memorial Day and
Veterans Day b realizes that we don't say happy Memorial Day,
(03:35):
then look, we're all better off today. Why is Memorial
Day sometimes known as Decoration Day?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah? You know, it wasn't actually put it as.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
A national holiday until nineteen seventy seventy one, right, right,
but this goes all the way back to the Civil War, right,
it's AE hundred plus years later. And so originally we
believe there are multiple stories upwards of three of how
what we know now as Memorial Day actually started, and
(04:05):
back then it was started as a decoration day. One
of the theories is that down in South Carolina are
African American soldiers who fought in the Civil War their
families because we had all African American cemeteries, we still
had the segregationists going on, We're decorating the graves of
their war soldiers with flowers. At this period at the
(04:28):
end of May. Obviously April showers bring May flowers, and
therefore flowers are abundant, so they're decorating the graves. And
then somebody in Pennsylvania started to do the same, and
then DC and it just continued to grow. But everybody
started claiming we're the beginning, but it truly goes back
to just the Civil War and decorating the graves of
(04:49):
the soldiers with flowers of those who serve. So that's
how it became a decoration day. But that later on
we changed the name to Memorial We are memorializing those
of multiple wars now who have given.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Their life for our freedom.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Then there are the families that are left behind, right,
whether it was a husband, a father, a brother, a son,
a daughter, a mom that are recognized. How are they
recognized on now Memorial Day or in general?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Gods great, you know, I don't think we do enough
for those. There's no families and individuals, no doubt about it.
So back from World War One, when you had a
family member go off to the big World war, right
the word end all wars, families would receive a flag
they would hang in their window and it would have
a blue star on it. So big white field surrounded
by a red and a golden border around it and
(05:49):
have a blue star. And for every loved one you
had of your family that was serving will be a
blue star. So you could see flags hanging with four
and five. I mean it was an agrarian econom The
more kids you had, the better the farm win. Right,
So you would see multiple blue stars on there. But
when you lost a loved one in that war, it
would turn to gold and you would have a gold
(06:10):
star family. You may have three blue stars of one
gold star one was lost to the family, So that
became in essence, a gold star family, gold star mother,
gold star spouse to recognize one who has lost a
loved one in the battle of a war. So that's
how the gold Star mothers came about. But what happens
(06:32):
is we rightfully so we focus on the veterans who
lost their lives, But those veterans are from an extended family,
and the families are often left without. And so this
Memorial Day, instead of asking veterans, hey, would you please rise,
I have yet to hear anyone say do we have
any gold Star family?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Right now that I think about it, you're right, right, yeah,
obviously let's.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Memorialize John or Jane who passed in the service.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
But what about those families.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They're the ones who need an arm around them, a hug,
a thank you from a greatful nation.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You know, it's interesting you bring this up because the
only place I can ever remember doing that. Of course,
San Diego is one of the great military towns in America,
largest naval base in the western part of America, second
only in the country or around the world to Norfolk, Virginia.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Navy seals trail out there but a big part of
San Diego Padres baseball is every Sunday, different branches of
the military come marching in in uniform, right different sections
of the ballpark. Is one of the coolest things. And
they play their you know, their fight service, right, and
it's so cool. But at every single Padres baseball game
(07:48):
they ask people not only those who are veterans, right,
but ask those who had who are family members of
veterans to stand up in a crowd. So my place,
i've ever seen it, I.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's that's sensations pretty cool, right, Yeah, that is really
that's really unique.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I didn't know the Padres did.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
That for forty or fifty years.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I mean it maybe longer than that, since it started
the franchise in the late sixties. I'm sure that that's
been every Sunday. It's one of the coolest things you
can ever see, is when they come marching in and
they've got probably I'm guessing three four hundred of them
in each different branch in a different section of the ballpark.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and they got it all timed out to play
the music when they come in, and it is so cool,
all right, But locally. Let's talk about this for a minute. Sure,
what does the VSO offer to families that have lost
members in service for our country?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
What are you guys doing?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
So there's a lot of things that can still be
done for those families.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
One, obviously, if you're going to die, if the individual
dies in combat or on active duty, the families receive
what's called a DD two fourteen.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
It is my characterization of service.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It lists everything about Steve and if Steve happened to
die while on active duty, especially in the theater of war,
all of the decorations that Steve would have received, his
family receives it on a d D two fourteen. But
a lot of times they have no idea what this means.
Is it a medal, is it a ribbon? Is it
just a hey, Steve was there. So when they bring
(09:24):
that paperwork in, we got guys that have put together
we call it a wreck, will assemble their ribbons for
Uncle Joel or son Bobby. If we have the medals,
we'll put the medals together for them. So they can
actually walk away from the office with a sort of
a shadow box of what their loved one received as
an honor of their service.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Can you go back in time and do that and
figure out for somebody like, you know, let's say for
example that you know, stuff gets lost, people move whatever
it might be right, and say your grandfather or your
father died in the military. But now all of a
sudden they were probably in some of those things at
one point in time.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Right now you can't find them. Can you replace or
no you can you can't.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Let's let's let's let's uh in potential, Okay, potential, there's
so we have a an archive division for all the branches.
Back many years ago, they were all segregated in different
locations by branch of service. There was a time in
the seventies where the archive warehouse was flooded due to
(10:28):
smoking inside and a lot of records were lost. But
they can somewhat replicate what that veteran received by microfish
or something like that. But there's a website called archive
dot gov and it's where you can submit to receive
that which your loved.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
One was honored with.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
No kidding there is.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's great, and you know, Clairemont County Veterans dot com
you can ask us to do the same. Sometimes it
comes quicker. Sometimes we might even have a copy of
their d D two fourteen down at the Recorder's office
that we can actually reassemble what Uncle Joe or Grandpa.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
We've done it for many individuals.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Well, we celebrate, and maybe that's the wrong way. Is
that the wrong word celebrate Memorial Day? I mean you
are celebrating those who died in service to the country,
even though it's somber, as you point out, solid, but
you're still celebrating what they did for us today.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I'm going to celebrate our democracy, okay, based on a
sacrifice of those who went before me, and be appreciative. Right,
I could still be somber about their life given, but
I'm appreciative because they didn't die so that I could
lay here somber. They died so I can march on
in my freedoms.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
That's what I mean. That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Absolutely, Yeah, Okay, all right, Well, I hope you guys
have an awesome Memorial Day weekend. You do such great
work at the Claremont County Veteran Service Commission. Steve Belzo,
Kenny Williamson, Lou Gordon, thank you guys so much for
coming in and look forward to seeing you after.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
A Memorial Day weekend.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Absolutely thanks for your very kind voicemail pre surgery for
me and sending your prayers. I really really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, you're marching around here smartly, So hereabout smartly we'll
find out good Lord will all right, fellas.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Why we do it Every single Wednesday we get together
with Pastor Chad Holden, lead pastor over at Horizon Community
Church that's in Newtown, Ohio, right along the bank so
the little Miami River.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Well you've been a.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Little excursion these last couple of weeks, young man. How
was the country of Greece fantastic?
Speaker 5 (12:37):
I have never been there before and did a little
Bible trek with Paul as a leader in the early church,
and when appens to Corinth, to Stesl and Nika got
to see where the original Olympic Games were performed temples
to anyone and everyone, and it was pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
You know, you mentioned Paul, and I think sometime we
ought to do a series on him because I've been
eating a great deal. I'm not so sure. And maybe
you'll you'll say, Tom or you out of your mind,
but from so much reading about him, I'm not sure.
That after Jesus, there is a more important or what's
(13:16):
the word I'm looking for, world altering, Well that would
be that'd be covering world altering. That would cover it
than Paul. I mean, the guy was just amazing guy.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah, I got actually got to stand where he stood.
So he walks into Athens. He got the Parthenon there,
which is massive. That's kind of the upper section wor
all the big temples are. Then you come down about
thirty stories and there's this massive rock, maybe the size
of your house, they called Mars Hill. And that's where
he stood and spoke for the first time and really
delivered the first message in Europe, having come a couple
(13:50):
of cities down, but his first major approach to Athens,
and he really introduces people to the facts of history
and the archaeological evidence and the predictions made hundreds of
years in advanced that Jesus Bingley says he was, and
it literally transforms Athens. And yeah, it's really our church
models built off that. You know, he says, your poets
have said, he quotes their poets. You know, our exploring service.
(14:11):
We play the band you're gonna hear James Taylor and
the who we're actually working off that model, but Paul
didn't athens there, which is quote the poets of the
culture and then show how that leads to.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Some not only plane glass, but some stained glass like
you do.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, in preparation of our topic today, and this is
something I think is going to carry over for the
next few weeks because it is a complicated topic. I
came across a book, and that's war and Christian Views
of War. Have you read the book that's called actually
War four Christian Views? It's by Robert G. Klous. Have
(14:44):
you ever seen this book? Read this book?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I have not, but I'm very prey familiar with pacidism
and just war theory and have studied pretty extensively.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Okay, all right, well, I mean we can get into
the different ones, but the first one that I want
to start with is at least one of the Christian
views of war and war theory was represented by a
fellow they quoted in here named Harold OJ.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Brown.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And this physician calls for an eager participation in war
efforts which attempt to prevent or correct outrageous injustices.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
In other words, it's.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay to have a preemptive strike against something if it
is justifiable.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Right now, we are in a war with Iran?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Is this What would you say to someone who says
there's no way you can be both a Christian and
be in favor of killing people.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Well, there's the difference between killing and murder, right, So
even any of us would say, the difference between killing
someone versus self defense, what's the different self defense is
I'm defending someone innocent myself from an unjust person trying
to hurt somebody innocent. Same example, but please shooting a sniper,
you would say, Hey, the police officer's killing is justified.
It's not murder, it's just killing because the sniper bad
(16:08):
guy was trying to kill off some innocent kids at school.
So I think it's intuitive to us to know that
there's a difference between murder and and a just killing.
That's all laid out actually in the Bible. This is
all very unique laws that trace back to whether you're
a Christian person of faith. This is rooted in Moses,
who wrote the first five books of Bible. These ideas
come out of there. Then you come into kind of
(16:29):
just war theory, and with that this kind of different
ways that people weigh these different characteristics and what is
there a just cause? So in that case he's going
to lean a little bit more liberally in you need
to and I mean that in a bad way, just
along the spectrum to say, hey, we know someone's about
to have a nuclear weapon, we know they've been threatening
us for a long time. Therefore, we don't have to
(16:50):
wait for them for the first shot to be fired
in order to be justified. That kind of where he'd
come down. Somebody else would say, well, no, actually, you
actually need to wait until the first shot is taken.
Otherwise you're presuming omniscience, and so you'd want to weigh
those two things against each other.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
But often you'll hear kind of.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Pasivistic view, which is Christians are always against violence, but
that's just not true because it doesn't really account for
evil in the world. I had a friend of mine
who is a Quaker, and he was very much held
to pacifism until he got married, and his wife one
day asked him, She said, you're telling me that if
someone came into our house had tried to kill me
(17:29):
or rape me, you wouldn't fight back, And just based
on his training, he said no, and he saw the
absolute horror in her eyes, not knowing she'd be protected.
He said, I need to go revisit this position. I
have not accurately understood evil. So I think that's kind
of where the epics part to go. But then practically,
I think what happens is history has always been filled
with war. How do you and I become courageous when
(17:53):
we're facing it? You know, war brings out the best
and worse in us. Right, we see the most courageous
acts by people we know who serve, but often it
can the news can fill us with fear and anxiety,
and we want what's happening over there? Those heroic people
we know that are being brave, We want to be
happening here. You know, it can be a lot easier
to be at ease when you know how the movie ends.
(18:14):
If you ever watched a movie and you're in the
room with somebody else and they haven't seen the movie yet,
you're not.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Too anxious and.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Get paid off, right. And that is kind of the
unique stayed glass approach, which is that when Jesus said,
there's gonna be wars and rumors of wars all through history.
But I want you to know, here's the whole book
of Revelation in two words, God wins, Evil's destroyed. And
so you still don't like anxiety, you still don't like conflict,
but you can also have this piece that's.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
Not connected to things you can't control.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
I mean, you remember Jimmy Stewart, he was surprised being
in wonderful life. He was a bomber in the World
War Two. We had like thirty missions or something. And
his dad, when he went off to war in World
War Two, he sent him a psalm from Psalm ninety one.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
He said, I want you to hold onto this.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
This is what you're going to need in war, to
lie your self, to be brave, and to know not
just your bravery, but that you know how to move
the ends and sold ninety one when he'd handed as
his son. It says God is my refuge and God
is my strength, and even unreally to war. I think
a lot of us do that. We say, I will
be at peace when you know my kids are behaved.
I'll be at peace when the Iran deal is over.
(19:18):
I'll be at peace when and we always put our peace,
and we we delegate our peace to something that's beyond
our control.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
And yet what if you knew who controls history?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
And what if you knew that my peace doesn't have
to be dependent on what the news is going to
tell me today, what the stock market is today. I
still prefer the stock market to go up. I still
prefer wars to come to an end. But you know,
if if history has any indication on what's the norm,
the norm is conflict and chaos.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
So don't tie your peace to the news.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Let me yeah, yeah, your right.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
It is a lot of this, you know, digging a
little deep here, and maybe this is overly simplistic. Does
a lot of us have to do? And we're talking
with Pastor Chad Hooven about Christianity and war and the
intersection of those two things. You know, you can say
that all of this is evil because of a fallen
(20:15):
state of humanity, right, going all the way book to
the Book of Genesis. Okay, But then at the same time,
I guess you know, you say, well, God created every
life so valuable, every single life. So you know those
two things have to intersect eventually in society.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Without a doubt.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
And that's why you're going to go back to just
war theory and didroonomy It lays out that before you
go to war. Number one, you should make a declaration
of war, so it should be actually be a formal
not just an ambush of somebody, should be a declaration.
Number two, you should try and eliminate civilian casualties. So
what we think of today and talk about in debate
today was unheard of prior to Mosaic law. I mean,
(21:00):
if somebody kills and wipes out your son, you would
then the norm would be go retaliate and kill off
the whole village.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
That was normal.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
That was in fact, even the verse you maybe heard
an eye for an eye made people think eye for
an eye, Hey you poke, I poke your eye out.
It was actually designed to be a limitter. It'd be
like saying that the punishment needs to fit the crime.
If somebody does X, your retribution shouldn't be more than X.
So it then got turned later into an excuse to
be violent. That's not what it was intended to do.
(21:29):
It was a Hebrew idiot meaning the punishment should fit
the crime. Jesus shows up and says, hey, it's not
just the punishment should fit the crime.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Whenever possible.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Let me's talking to personal ethics, not necessarily state ethics.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
He says, I want you to turn the other cheek.
I want you to try and love your enemies. But
even Paul.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
We started with Paul, and he says that God puts
governments in place to execute justice. Part of that is
to protect your citizens from threats. Part of that is
to protect the nation from foreign invaders. But him doing so,
you go back to this idea, what you and I
think is common sense was not common It comes right
out of the Bible.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
Protect civilians if you can do a commitment to war.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
And then it also says try and make a peace
treaty before you go to war.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Well that was unheard of as well, is there a way?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
And then when just war theory kind of pick that up,
they say, human beings are eternally valuable, so they should
never be thought of as fodder. So you must have
a war plan that has at least a feasible chance
of winning, because you are putting into the canon, so
to speak, the.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Eternally valuable things.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
So that just cause and the feasibility of winning got
to be pretty darn strong because of the cost you're
paying and what you're willing to do. And then obviously
sometimes evil people do evil things. You can't stop evil
people having innocence in front of themselves, so as best
you can. In the complexity of war, and that's why
they always say war as hell, it's because you're trying
(22:49):
to get rules of engagement and honor all these different
principles that are intentioned.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
All right, help me with this one, because again, in
getting through parts of this book last night, and I
try to just get through some of the main parts,
but focusing in for a minute on the Christian pacifist
which you talked about a minute ago. Okay, we hear
the term all the time, a separation of church and state, right,
(23:19):
So you know where I'm going here with this. Pacifism
is therefore, what's the word obligatory right for all of
human society. And yet you're making very accurate, solid historical
points that for the Christian there are times where you
(23:41):
know you gotta do what you got to do for
lack of a better term in fighting evil.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Is the Christian pacifist wrong?
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Well, I think everyone knows enough of the Bible to
be dangerous, and so often people know a couple verses
and they'll take the verse like Jesus saying turn the
other cheek, and they'll an entire worldview on that one verse.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
But you want to take a comprehensive view, which.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Is all right? Is that always what God said? Is
he talking there to nations or to personal ethics? Well,
that's different, because we should not take vengeance in our
own side. We should appeal to the states somebody to
be objective. That's where rules of evidence come from. That's
where having a jury comes from. All that also comes
out of Moses' law. So I think on the other side,
(24:26):
somebody who's a warmonger might only say war is always
justified and not really.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Weighing in the other side.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
So I think you want to have a comprehensive view,
and almost like a mobile sitting over a kid's crib.
There should be multiple points and counterpoints, and the Bible
often offers about twenty different values for each issue.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Personally, you're going to face, state, you're going to face.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
And what's interesting is even if you're not a person
who believes in the Bible, and God often interacts with
non Christian, non believing states a Babylon for example, Persia.
I got to see some of that when I was
over in Greece, and he holds those states accountable. Nebuchanezer
didn't believe in the God of the Bible, but God
actually held him account for how he ran his country
and how he wasn't protecting people, how he wasn't administering
(25:08):
justice properly or unfairly.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
So I do think there seems.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
To be a way in which, even if you don't
believe in the God of the Bible, there is a God,
and he would be the source of justice. He'd be
the source of right and wrong, and that there'll be
some way of evaluating what's right and what's wrong, not
just for personal ethics, but also for.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
What a nation does.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
In fact, I would say when God set up the nation,
often that's the trick when you're reading the Old Testament
is sometimes he's talking to the government, he's setting up
I think our founder said, well, we don't want the
government to set up a organized religion, right, so we
have the government telling you what you have to believe.
On the other hand, to create this separation, as if
(25:47):
that means you can't ever have any type of Christian
thinking in how you think about government, Well, that's silly, Like,
how could you ever do morality and not have some
type of philosophy behind it, some type of ethics behind it.
So it's not a separate of state government from ethics
or from a religious worldview. It's just not having the
state force or mandate one particular religion you.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Have to practice.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
But of course, in the marketplace of ideas, where of
course going to argue what is the best morality, what
is the best ethic for making decisions for people, for families,
and for states.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
And that's where Christianity has been our foundation.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
And continues to be.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
And part of that is we respect and want people
to choose to be followers of God. We don't force
people to be followers to God, and that makes us free,
fundamentally different.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Chad can't thank you enough for your time. Fascinating topic.
We'll get more into this again next week.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Thank you. Hope you have a great rest of your Wednesday.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
Two.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Please contact your local dog or cat rescue before this weekend.
Apply to adopt a dog or a cat, even foster
a dog or a cat for a few days, maybe
a week, see how it goes. This is seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,
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