April 3, 2026 • 30 mins
As industries face a massive need for over 600,000 new blue collar workers annually, National Careers in Trades Week hopes to help alleviate the problem. Industry leaders say there is a critical shortage where 5 skilled tradespeople retire for every 2 that enter the field. Workers of all ages are exploring the trades for rewarding and well-paying jobs with great benefits, including healthcare and pensions, and no college debt. We're learning more from Tom Martin, President of SMACNA in Chantilly, Virginia.
Listen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. As industries face a massive need for over
six hundred thousand new blue collar workers annually, National Careers
in Trades Week hopes to help alleviate the problem. Industry
leaders say there's a critical shortage where five skilled trades
people retire for every two that enter the field. Workers
(00:28):
of all ages are exploring the trades for rewarding and
well paying jobs with great benefits, including healthcare and pensions
with no college debt. We're learning more from Tom Martin,
president of Smagna in Chantilly, Virginia. Welcome to the show,
mister Martin. I'm so glad you could join us today.
I know trades are becoming a lot more popular now
(00:49):
and so I'm anxious to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thank you, Rebecca. I look forward to it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So I'm gonna let you tell me the name of
the week that we're promoting, because I always get it
messed up.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
It is National Careers in Trades.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Week, and that's April sixth, right, and that when it starts.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
April sixth through the tenth. But actually we've kind of
started it prior and it probably will continue after. But yeah,
April sixth through the tenth is the.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Week, okay, And what does Magna have to do with that?
How are those things related?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Really, it's a workforce development program, you know, giving opportunities
for young men and women to get in a skilled trade,
learn a skilled trade, get into a union, make over
twenty to twenty five dollars their first year as an
apprentice with great wages and benefits, educating young men and
women and their parents and teachers, guidance counselors, family members,
(01:43):
the great opportunities that getting into a skilled trade via plumber, HVAC,
sheet metal, electrician, carpenter, all these great avenues, and you
know there's a there's a wide open opportunity for for
us myself as a contractor. We're looking for new young
(02:05):
men and women to supplement supplement the workforce.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Okay, So have you noticed an increase in young people
and people of all ages really getting back into the trades.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's actually a trend which is great. I think a
lot of young men and women realizing this is an
opportunity to make money and get educated in a skilled trade,
eliminate college debt, and just the opportunities I think when
they network or they're on social media and they see
the opportunities of young men and women that get into
(02:41):
a trade and become all of a sudden a leader
within their trade or within their company via a foreman, superintendent,
project manager, maybe a future vice president of a company. Really,
the opportunities are endless. It's not for everyone. It's tough,
but it is a great opportun tunity and it's it's
(03:01):
great pay and great benefits.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, I agree with that. I know my son. I
have two sons, but one of them has gone into
the automotive industry and he's been doing it, I think
five years, and he's already making almost double what I make.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know, it's true, and you know those CDL opportunities
or are manufacturing as well as a skilled trades always
pays well with great benefits. And again, you know what
when you have a skilled trade, Rebecca, it travels. So
if you get married or do decide to move to
a different state, you know you can. You have opportunities
(03:45):
really anywhere in the United States to work, which is
which is a value thing as well.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, most definitely. I think what you said though, is
also something we should touch on it's not for everybody.
My son is one of those that he would be
miserable behind a desk or behind a computers. He's a
hands on guy and he's mechanically brained and that's just
the way he works. And so to work on cars
(04:11):
and repair them and all that kind of stuff just
comes natural to him. Could you put a percentage on
how many people try to go into the trades and
maybe realize that it isn't for them.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I would say between ten and twenty percent. You know,
a lot of the fear is heights, and unfortunately, you
know in our trade, in our business, we have to
be on scissor lifts, we have to be on ladders
and extension ladders. So if the fear of heights is
a real problem and you can't you can't get through that.
That's a concern. Although, Rebecca, you know in the built
(04:44):
into skilled trades there's also cad BIM opportunities where you're
doing design fabrication in your shot in the shop. So
you know, if you have a fear of heights or
a fear of something, you know there's other opportunities within
the trade keep you maybe in the shop, or keep
you in the office doing something different than maybe in
the field per se. But I would say maybe ten
(05:06):
to fifteen to twenty percent. A lot of times it's
just you know, it's an early A lot of times
job starts, job sites start at six am or seven am.
So if you're not an early person, that could be
that could be a burden as well. But I think
most men and women they get into the trades, see
the great opportunities. See that you're getting paid day one
(05:27):
of up to twenty to twenty five dollars, a full
package of up up to fifty five to sixty thousand,
and when you do top out after your apprenticeship, you
know you're getting you're making you're making really good money
with great benefits. And that's a positive.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, most definitely, and most definitely so for anybody that's
listening and they've considered making the switch, I'm gonna ask
it this way. My youngest son can contemplated going and
becoming an electrician. However, I was a single mother for
majority of his life, and he didn't have anybody that
(06:07):
he could learn from, Like he couldn't do it with dad,
so to speak. Or I don't have any brothers. You know,
things like that. So during his interview process, the initial
one for like an apprenticeship, he keeps getting ruled out
because he doesn't have any experience, he has interest, he
just doesn't have any knowledge or any experience. He's starting
out completely green. What would be do? What would be
(06:31):
your advice for people like that or for people who
may have a little bit of an experience helping dad
or grandpa or you know, uncle doing some things.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
When we interview young men and women for opportunities as
an apprentice or a help or a pre apprentice, I
mean my thoughts. I've always been get educated on the
website of the electrician or plumbers or sheet metal or
HVAC contractors. But also you know, uh see if see
(07:01):
if a friend, a neighbor, or somebody needs a hand
help changing out a hot water tank, changing out a furnace,
calking a deck. You know, anything that you can get
some hands on experience with tools will benefit even if
it like in your son's situation, he wants to be electrician,
(07:22):
if he could find somebody that that would help him
with a little bit of electric or electrical work or
give them an opportunity to you know, shadow, somebody is
normally what we're looking for when they're young, when when
they're very young and as a teenager, I mean, we
understand they're just finishing up high school and they don't
have a lot of experience, uh maybe with with with
(07:43):
skilled trades, but you know a lot of it too.
I would think, is you know, have you been on
a ladder, have you worked with a tape measure? Do
you know how to measure things? I mean small, small,
little things like that would definitely help when they're trying
to get into a particular trade.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, And my personal thoughts are the reason that there's
multiple reasons, in my opinion, why the trades are becoming
a trending thing. I think one of those is that
there was a generation who chased college degrees but didn't
learn how to fix their own faucet or build their
(08:21):
own shed. And maybe they tried to do it thinking
it was super simple, but it's really not. And so
there's a generation coming up now who they have met
enough and seen enough people, especially on social media, who
can do those things in a skilled way. And I
think that, coupled with the fact that wages have not
(08:43):
really kept up with what they should be. You know,
and everybody's trying to just keep things running as long
as possible. I think those are two of the things
driving the move to the trades. First off, do you
agree with that? And do you have any others to add?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Our industry is a well paid industry from top to bottom.
So I think that that is important and it's good.
And I think I think a lot of young men
and women talk to friends or on social media and
see that hey boy, that that person became a plumber, electrician,
and you know they're they're in a truck, they're an apartment.
You know they're able to do some stuff. They're out
(09:23):
of they're out of mom and dad's house, and that's
very appealing. And as far as just having a skilled,
uh skilled set understanding of trade, yes, I mean it
helps you when you do buy a house, or it
helps helps mom or dad fix something. You know that
those those aren't valuable. To have a trade and understand
tools and understand how to fix things, repair things, work
(09:47):
on things, I think is beneficial.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, I agree. Can you tell us the average length
of time it would take for a person from start
to finish to become skilled, say at a technical college
in a trade and get on the job.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Most apprenticeship programs are four to five years. I would
answer that by by year two you are enough. You're
trained within the company you're working for, plus the apprenticeship
hall on different disciplines within the trade. I would say
about year two, you're up and running and you have
a real good feel of the industry. By the time
(10:29):
you do top out, become a journey person and you're
getting that that that good, real good wage with great benefits.
Now it's your responsibility to bring to bring value to
the industry, the union that you might work for in
an employer, because you know, contractors like myself were running
two hundred and two hundred people for a month and
(10:50):
then all of a sudden we have to cut back
because the job finishes or ramp up. So you're going
to bounce around a little bit. You're not gonna work
for the same company, so you have have to be
ready to go by time you're a journey person. But
I would answer that by year two you should be
in pretty good shape and understand the trade and have
some experience both in the shop and the field, doing
(11:12):
different different disciplines within the trade. And then as I mentioned,
Most programs are now four year apprenticeship that kind of
mimic a undergrad degree. Some are still five years.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, all right, and I mean that's definitely faster than
your typical undergrad degree. Obviously, that was the path that
I chose because for communications, that was the only path
that was really offered for what I do. Do you
think we're going to see careers similar to mine and
(11:46):
others that require a college degree kind of backed down
from that and maybe offer more trade style programs. Do
you think that's something in the future.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We do see a lot more vocational schools engage in
mt P opportunities for their for their students, mechanical, electrical, plumbing,
sheet mettal. We're starting to see more high schools build
a shop class again, right to learn how to do
some carpentry skills and maybe a little bit of plumbing
(12:18):
and sheet metal and electrical. Those are good things. How
to get on a land or how to read a
tape measure. I think a lot of the unions have
built into some of their apprenticeship programs opportunities for them
to get associate member programs or associate associate degrees with
junior colleges. Around that area. And you know, obviously once
(12:41):
you get that, then then you only need to two
more years to get undergrad. So not only can you
get into the skilled trades and start getting paid day
one with good benefits and learning a skilled trade, there's
there's a lot of opportunities for these young men and
women to get an associate degree and really get it
paid for through through the trades.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, And I believe that you're not familiar with it,
but I am aware of ESPN has started doing trade competitions.
I saw it last year. There was like a mechanic,
not a mechanic, but a electric and a plumber and
an hvac and not just one, but like groups of them.
(13:23):
I have no idea how they went from their regular
nine to five job to competing on ESPN. But do
you think that that is beneficial and how do you
see that playing into another draw for young people?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
It's a great target audience mostly most people watching ESM
ESPN I would have, I would venture to say, as
ninety percent mail and young male. So that's great. I'm
an advocate for any workforce development program and that that's
what that is, and it's it's learning a trade, a
little competition all of a suddene somebody a young man
(14:02):
or woman, all of a sudden, like the competition aspect.
I liked a little bit of the skilled trade, and
I want to want to venture into into a skilled trade.
You know, we see it builds a lot of confidence
and relationships and some peers and mentorships and once you
get in the trade. So to answer your question about ESPN,
I think it's great, and I think, you know, any
(14:24):
type of workforce development program I think is important.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
For young men and women, Okay, I love that. I
know during the pandemic we saw a lot of these
trades people struggling, not because they weren't needed, because lord knows,
they were probably needed more than ever, but a lot
of the older people who had been in it for
a long time and who held a lot of not
(14:51):
just knowledge, but wisdom, which to me is a very
different thing, they kind of lefty. They were able to retire,
and I know we did a lot of stories, you know,
just as a pandemic was ending in a couple of
years after, about how some of the newer trades people
(15:11):
had not been around that wisdom long enough to learn
it themselves, and so there was a struggle of yeah,
not only do we not have enough, but the ones
that we have were not as well trained. They didn't
know the tricks of the trade that you learn usually
from an older person, you know, kind of passing that down.
(15:32):
Is that still kind of a problem or has that
kind of resolved itself a great.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Question, Yes, it's still a problem. We have really pushed
around the country with all the trades about mentorship and
doing a better job of mentoring these young men and women,
treating them all with respect, no matter gender, race, all
the color, all of that. You know, sometimes we call, well, Rebecca,
(16:00):
we call this reverse mentoring as well, with the savviness
young men and women have with it and phones and
drop boxes and apps and accessing things via new delivery
methods in construction, so we get some synergy that way too.
Our young men and women are training the older foremen
(16:24):
that have great experience in the field, know how to
build things and know how to run crews, but are
not savvy on technology. We know in our industry we
have to do a better job of mentoring these young
men and women and transitioning because to your point, we're
seeing a lot of a lot of people retire fully invested,
(16:45):
and you know, finding new leaders is a real challenge
for us as contractors around the country, identifying future leaders
that want to do it and that are ready to
do it, that can run projects, be a form and
a superintendent, a product manager for us. So we're doing
the best we can. I think we offered in our
(17:06):
apprenticeship polls some of that training, but I think a
lot of our contractors are high performing contractors do it
internal as well.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Okay, And I know part of the I think hesitation
to teach some of those things is if I'm doing
it super duper well and I'm paid at this level,
but I teach you how to do what I'm doing now,
I'm replaceable, you know, and if I'm not ready to
be replaced or not ready to retire, then I'm going
(17:34):
to hold on to that knowledge out of a fear
almost you know what I'm saying, is that truly how
that may have played out? Or do you think it
was just too busy to slow down?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I think that's some of that's old school and that
used to happen, and we've tried to correct that. You know, Remember,
if you're a union trades person in the union tractor.
You have these great define benefit plans that pay extremely
well the membership. The union members need need future men
(18:10):
and women to get into trade to keep those vest
to keep those defined benefit plans healthy and solve it.
So I think again, with COVID and just a lot
of people, a lot of men and women retiring in
our trade, you know, we're trying to do a lot
better job of onboarding, recruitment, retainage, but also making sure
we're training and mentoring future leaders for not only the union,
(18:35):
but for us as employees, as contractors.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, and let me ask you this. I know for
people like myself who spend majority of their time behind
a computer and in an office, we know that AI
is coming for us. We can feel the electronic breath
on our shoulders, so to speak. I do know that
I've seen some things where AI has also been incorporated
(19:01):
into some trades. Can you talk to that point and
how do trades people feel about AI in general? Do
they feel like they'll be replaced or is it just
a tool in addition to all their other tools in
their box.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I think it's a tool, you know, with regards to
safety and actually tool technology and tracking battery power and
where those tools are. We see it in design where
we can before we'd have to fully implement a design
coordinated with other trades before we fabricated, so we would
(19:38):
miss each other and avoid each other above a ceiling
per se. We're starting to AI starting to streamline some
of those things. Their helped The AI can help you
out with estimating, help you all identify equipment. If we
want to change a unit on a roof or at
your your house or apartment, you know we could we
could shoot a picture of the UH, the unit, the
(20:02):
code on the unit, and UH. It can give us
all the details of tonnages, electrical requirements cfms. So we're
starting to see some things in AI. Again, is challenging
for us to maneuver through it. A lot of our
contractors associations Rebecca have AI task force and steering committees
(20:22):
within our contractors association to try to educate our contractors
as we move forward. But I think it's a positive.
I don't think it's going to take jobs away. It's
just going to be more efficient. You're going to be
able to be more efficient, be able to track more things,
identify more things via safety and tools and some design
(20:43):
and estimating, which which I think will increase efficiency. And
ultimately we need to we need to take care of
our customers and get jobs done timely, and that that'll help.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Oh, yes, for sure, I like to I like the
analogy they heard on an interview Gosh a couple of
years back now, we were talking about AI. He was
actually big in the field, and he said, you know, yes,
will there be jobs that become absolute? Yes, He's like,
you have to think of it like when we went
from horse and buggy to automobiles. It didn't happen all
(21:18):
at once, but it did happen pretty fast, and people,
you know, it made the horses and the buggies not
necessary anymore because you have a car now, and it
was more efficient, and it went faster, sometimes not a
lot faster, but you know, it was just And he's like,
and we have to think of AI like that instead
(21:39):
of as the big evil robot in the movie that's
trying to kill us all.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
You know, we see it in fabrication technology with some robotics,
some welding, lasers, plasma cutters, which really increases efficiency. But again,
you still, you know, with our trade in our industry,
you still need out of labor, shop field, project management labor,
(22:04):
so I think it will increase efficiency and then when
there are markets or areas that are really short on labor,
you know this. This will help assist contractors in to
meet schedules and get projects done for customers.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Okay, I like that. Is there any particular one or
handful of trades that seem to be needing more hands
on deck than others or is it across the board
everybody's in desperate need.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, I think it's across the board. But you know
what I hear as traveling around the country, You know
the METP trades mechanical sheet metal, electrical plumbing is really
needed supplying demand for that, carpenters and iron workers as well,
roofers included.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I mean, it's tough to get men and women to
want to want to be roofers. That that's tough work
and you missed time due to weather. But I would
say the METP space for sure, mechanical electrical plumbing, carpentry,
iron workers, and roofers will probably the areas that are
somewhat concerning to contractors and general contractors and customers with
(23:18):
regards to getting jobs done on schedule.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Now, is that contributing to our housing crisis or do
you think that's more again weak wages and affordability.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know, I can't speak for that. I mean, I
do know that some type some of these housing developments
are lacking some manpower, so they're not doing as many projects,
are not doing as many houses at the same time
as they have in the past. But you know, I'm
not sure on the residential you know, I know the
(23:51):
commercial industrial aspect.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Okay. And you said you're a contractor, general contractor what kind?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I am a mechanical contractor, sheet metal mechanical plumbing contractor
based in Cleveland and Akron and all of northern Ohio.
And I do work in Pennsylvania, in some work in Virginia,
North Carolina, but we're based in northern Ohio.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay. So for you in your career, what would be
the most unusual or the most surprising thing that you
learned that you weren't anticipating when you went into that field.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Delivery methods have changed considerably. Customers would have you quote
projects and if you were low you would get the job.
I think customers a lot of customers, especially in healthcare
in our industry and industrial commercial industry. They want partners,
they want collaborative approaches. They want our contractors to assist
(24:55):
in design and have a collaborative approach with the engineer, architect,
general contractor and you know, all the METP trades. I
like that. It's better. It eliminates more friction on job
sites and less change orders. We just want to get
the job done. So the real big trend I've seen,
(25:17):
which I think is a positive, is just more of
a collaborative approach with the engineering community, the architects and
the contractors. And you see more collaborative approaches in the
field and in the shops with other trades, which is great.
You know, modulization, prefabrication, so that tends to you know,
(25:41):
the animosity and sometimes the issues you had on job
sites with trades button heads has really been mitigated because
of those new delivery methods. So I mean, and with
the shortages of manpower around the country, we've had to
team up with National mechanicals as well as some of
our competitors. We see that all the time. That's really
a trend that I would have never get. I would
(26:02):
have never thought fifteen years ago. I would I would
partner on a project with my main competitor, Well, I
have because of just labor shortages and we need you know,
we need additional resources and manpower to execute a project.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Wow, that's impressive. I wish say would do that when
it comes to building cars, because I know that's the
biggest frustration from a mechanical Like when my husband or
my husband and my son are mechanics and they're you know,
both of them are like they'll say other words, but
stupid engineer. You know, you used a computer to make
this work, but nobody can reach that bolt. And no,
(26:37):
you got to take off all this other stuff that
I don't really need to take off to get to
this one bit. And you know, there's been some speculation
that some of that's done on purpose to make it
harder so that you have to go to the dealership,
or of course the whole thing about making things so
that they fail on purpose so you have to buy
them again. But I think that's one thing with most aids,
(27:00):
maybe not automobiles, but most trades. We're not trying to
make you buy it again super soon, right, Like we're not.
That's not a philosophy there.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Most projects have a one year warranty, and we want
to do good work and quality work, and we don't
want to have to come back eight months later and
try to fix something. Right If after the warranty, if
they want to repair something or replace something, well then
we could we could talk to the customer about it.
But yeah, most projects, Rebecca, in the industrial commercial space
that we do work in have a one year one
(27:33):
y're guaranteed warranty. If something's not working, you have to
go back out there and fix it. We sure don't
want to do that right for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
And I think people are starting to really understand the concept,
which I mean I was taught it as a kid.
But you get what you pay for. So if you
don't want to spend a lot, that's fine. But whatever
your buying is not going to last that long either, absolutely,
so I hate it, but we're at the end of
our time. Let me ask you one other question. It's
a question I ask everybody. I'm curious. You're the expert.
(28:02):
Is there anything the audience needs to know about anything
we've talked about today, but especially about the Career Trade
Week that I didn't know to ask you about now.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I think if somebody wants to is it very interested?
All the websites of all the unions are accessible. You
can you can sign up on the websites. You know,
it's an opportunity to get paid first day, learn a
skilled trade, get great benefits. You know, uh, meet meet
(28:32):
some peers and friends, build relationships. It's it's hard work,
but I'll tell you what, it's a great opportunity in
the in the opportunities are endless, Rebecca. Young men and
women can get into the trade five six, seven years
from now. There's opportunities to be a superintendent, a foreman,
a project manager. So great opportunities if you want to
(28:55):
get involved and create relationships, friendships not only within the
within those people in your trade, but with other trades
as well. And again, that skilled trade will travel, so
if you if you want to leave and go to
the west coast or east coast or go south, you
know that that that trade set will follow you, which
is a great thing.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, I like that. And would you like to promo
your website.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Nationals actually mean National Careers in Tradesweek dot com National
Careers in Trade Tradesweek dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Awesome, Thank you so much, mister Martin. I really enjoyed
our chat today.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Thank you very much, thanks for having me, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with the Virginia News
Network and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus.
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. As industries face a massive need for over
six hundred thousand new blue collar workers annually, National Careers
in Trades Week hopes to help alleviate the problem. Industry
leaders say there's a critical shortage where five skilled trades
people retire for every two that enter the field. Workers
(00:28):
of all ages are exploring the trades for rewarding and
well paying jobs with great benefits, including healthcare and pensions
with no college debt. We're learning more from Tom Martin,
president of Smagna in Chantilly, Virginia. Welcome to the show,
mister Martin. I'm so glad you could join us today.
I know trades are becoming a lot more popular now
(00:49):
and so I'm anxious to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thank you, Rebecca. I look forward to it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So I'm gonna let you tell me the name of
the week that we're promoting, because I always get it
messed up.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
It is National Careers in Trades.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Week, and that's April sixth, right, and that when it starts.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
April sixth through the tenth. But actually we've kind of
started it prior and it probably will continue after. But yeah,
April sixth through the tenth is the.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Week, okay, And what does Magna have to do with that?
How are those things related?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Really, it's a workforce development program, you know, giving opportunities
for young men and women to get in a skilled trade,
learn a skilled trade, get into a union, make over
twenty to twenty five dollars their first year as an
apprentice with great wages and benefits, educating young men and
women and their parents and teachers, guidance counselors, family members,
(01:43):
the great opportunities that getting into a skilled trade via plumber, HVAC,
sheet metal, electrician, carpenter, all these great avenues, and you
know there's a there's a wide open opportunity for for
us myself as a contractor. We're looking for new young
(02:05):
men and women to supplement supplement the workforce.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Okay, So have you noticed an increase in young people
and people of all ages really getting back into the trades.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's actually a trend which is great. I think a
lot of young men and women realizing this is an
opportunity to make money and get educated in a skilled trade,
eliminate college debt, and just the opportunities I think when
they network or they're on social media and they see
the opportunities of young men and women that get into
(02:41):
a trade and become all of a sudden a leader
within their trade or within their company via a foreman, superintendent,
project manager, maybe a future vice president of a company. Really,
the opportunities are endless. It's not for everyone. It's tough,
but it is a great opportun tunity and it's it's
(03:01):
great pay and great benefits.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, I agree with that. I know my son. I
have two sons, but one of them has gone into
the automotive industry and he's been doing it, I think
five years, and he's already making almost double what I make.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know, it's true, and you know those CDL opportunities
or are manufacturing as well as a skilled trades always
pays well with great benefits. And again, you know what
when you have a skilled trade, Rebecca, it travels. So
if you get married or do decide to move to
a different state, you know you can. You have opportunities
(03:45):
really anywhere in the United States to work, which is
which is a value thing as well.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, most definitely. I think what you said though, is
also something we should touch on it's not for everybody.
My son is one of those that he would be
miserable behind a desk or behind a computers. He's a
hands on guy and he's mechanically brained and that's just
the way he works. And so to work on cars
(04:11):
and repair them and all that kind of stuff just
comes natural to him. Could you put a percentage on
how many people try to go into the trades and
maybe realize that it isn't for them.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I would say between ten and twenty percent. You know,
a lot of the fear is heights, and unfortunately, you
know in our trade, in our business, we have to
be on scissor lifts, we have to be on ladders
and extension ladders. So if the fear of heights is
a real problem and you can't you can't get through that.
That's a concern. Although, Rebecca, you know in the built
(04:44):
into skilled trades there's also cad BIM opportunities where you're
doing design fabrication in your shot in the shop. So
you know, if you have a fear of heights or
a fear of something, you know there's other opportunities within
the trade keep you maybe in the shop, or keep
you in the office doing something different than maybe in
the field per se. But I would say maybe ten
(05:06):
to fifteen to twenty percent. A lot of times it's
just you know, it's an early A lot of times
job starts, job sites start at six am or seven am.
So if you're not an early person, that could be
that could be a burden as well. But I think
most men and women they get into the trades, see
the great opportunities. See that you're getting paid day one
(05:27):
of up to twenty to twenty five dollars, a full
package of up up to fifty five to sixty thousand,
and when you do top out after your apprenticeship, you
know you're getting you're making you're making really good money
with great benefits. And that's a positive.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, most definitely, and most definitely so for anybody that's
listening and they've considered making the switch, I'm gonna ask
it this way. My youngest son can contemplated going and
becoming an electrician. However, I was a single mother for
majority of his life, and he didn't have anybody that
(06:07):
he could learn from, Like he couldn't do it with dad,
so to speak. Or I don't have any brothers. You know,
things like that. So during his interview process, the initial
one for like an apprenticeship, he keeps getting ruled out
because he doesn't have any experience, he has interest, he
just doesn't have any knowledge or any experience. He's starting
out completely green. What would be do? What would be
(06:31):
your advice for people like that or for people who
may have a little bit of an experience helping dad
or grandpa or you know, uncle doing some things.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
When we interview young men and women for opportunities as
an apprentice or a help or a pre apprentice, I
mean my thoughts. I've always been get educated on the
website of the electrician or plumbers or sheet metal or
HVAC contractors. But also you know, uh see if see
(07:01):
if a friend, a neighbor, or somebody needs a hand
help changing out a hot water tank, changing out a furnace,
calking a deck. You know, anything that you can get
some hands on experience with tools will benefit even if
it like in your son's situation, he wants to be electrician,
(07:22):
if he could find somebody that that would help him
with a little bit of electric or electrical work or
give them an opportunity to you know, shadow, somebody is
normally what we're looking for when they're young, when when
they're very young and as a teenager, I mean, we
understand they're just finishing up high school and they don't
have a lot of experience, uh maybe with with with
(07:43):
skilled trades, but you know a lot of it too.
I would think, is you know, have you been on
a ladder, have you worked with a tape measure? Do
you know how to measure things? I mean small, small,
little things like that would definitely help when they're trying
to get into a particular trade.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, And my personal thoughts are the reason that there's
multiple reasons, in my opinion, why the trades are becoming
a trending thing. I think one of those is that
there was a generation who chased college degrees but didn't
learn how to fix their own faucet or build their
(08:21):
own shed. And maybe they tried to do it thinking
it was super simple, but it's really not. And so
there's a generation coming up now who they have met
enough and seen enough people, especially on social media, who
can do those things in a skilled way. And I
think that, coupled with the fact that wages have not
(08:43):
really kept up with what they should be. You know,
and everybody's trying to just keep things running as long
as possible. I think those are two of the things
driving the move to the trades. First off, do you
agree with that? And do you have any others to add?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Our industry is a well paid industry from top to bottom.
So I think that that is important and it's good.
And I think I think a lot of young men
and women talk to friends or on social media and
see that hey boy, that that person became a plumber, electrician,
and you know they're they're in a truck, they're an apartment.
You know they're able to do some stuff. They're out
(09:23):
of they're out of mom and dad's house, and that's
very appealing. And as far as just having a skilled,
uh skilled set understanding of trade, yes, I mean it
helps you when you do buy a house, or it
helps helps mom or dad fix something. You know that
those those aren't valuable. To have a trade and understand
tools and understand how to fix things, repair things, work
(09:47):
on things, I think is beneficial.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, I agree. Can you tell us the average length
of time it would take for a person from start
to finish to become skilled, say at a technical college
in a trade and get on the job.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Most apprenticeship programs are four to five years. I would
answer that by by year two you are enough. You're
trained within the company you're working for, plus the apprenticeship
hall on different disciplines within the trade. I would say
about year two, you're up and running and you have
a real good feel of the industry. By the time
(10:29):
you do top out, become a journey person and you're
getting that that that good, real good wage with great benefits.
Now it's your responsibility to bring to bring value to
the industry, the union that you might work for in
an employer, because you know, contractors like myself were running
two hundred and two hundred people for a month and
(10:50):
then all of a sudden we have to cut back
because the job finishes or ramp up. So you're going
to bounce around a little bit. You're not gonna work
for the same company, so you have have to be
ready to go by time you're a journey person. But
I would answer that by year two you should be
in pretty good shape and understand the trade and have
some experience both in the shop and the field, doing
(11:12):
different different disciplines within the trade. And then as I mentioned,
Most programs are now four year apprenticeship that kind of
mimic a undergrad degree. Some are still five years.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, all right, and I mean that's definitely faster than
your typical undergrad degree. Obviously, that was the path that
I chose because for communications, that was the only path
that was really offered for what I do. Do you
think we're going to see careers similar to mine and
(11:46):
others that require a college degree kind of backed down
from that and maybe offer more trade style programs. Do
you think that's something in the future.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We do see a lot more vocational schools engage in
mt P opportunities for their for their students, mechanical, electrical, plumbing,
sheet mettal. We're starting to see more high schools build
a shop class again, right to learn how to do
some carpentry skills and maybe a little bit of plumbing
(12:18):
and sheet metal and electrical. Those are good things. How
to get on a land or how to read a
tape measure. I think a lot of the unions have
built into some of their apprenticeship programs opportunities for them
to get associate member programs or associate associate degrees with
junior colleges. Around that area. And you know, obviously once
(12:41):
you get that, then then you only need to two
more years to get undergrad. So not only can you
get into the skilled trades and start getting paid day
one with good benefits and learning a skilled trade, there's
there's a lot of opportunities for these young men and
women to get an associate degree and really get it
paid for through through the trades.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, And I believe that you're not familiar with it,
but I am aware of ESPN has started doing trade competitions.
I saw it last year. There was like a mechanic,
not a mechanic, but a electric and a plumber and
an hvac and not just one, but like groups of them.
(13:23):
I have no idea how they went from their regular
nine to five job to competing on ESPN. But do
you think that that is beneficial and how do you
see that playing into another draw for young people?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
It's a great target audience mostly most people watching ESM
ESPN I would have, I would venture to say, as
ninety percent mail and young male. So that's great. I'm
an advocate for any workforce development program and that that's
what that is, and it's it's learning a trade, a
little competition all of a suddene somebody a young man
(14:02):
or woman, all of a sudden, like the competition aspect.
I liked a little bit of the skilled trade, and
I want to want to venture into into a skilled trade.
You know, we see it builds a lot of confidence
and relationships and some peers and mentorships and once you
get in the trade. So to answer your question about ESPN,
I think it's great, and I think, you know, any
(14:24):
type of workforce development program I think is important.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
For young men and women, Okay, I love that. I
know during the pandemic we saw a lot of these
trades people struggling, not because they weren't needed, because lord knows,
they were probably needed more than ever, but a lot
of the older people who had been in it for
a long time and who held a lot of not
(14:51):
just knowledge, but wisdom, which to me is a very
different thing, they kind of lefty. They were able to retire,
and I know we did a lot of stories, you know,
just as a pandemic was ending in a couple of
years after, about how some of the newer trades people
(15:11):
had not been around that wisdom long enough to learn
it themselves, and so there was a struggle of yeah,
not only do we not have enough, but the ones
that we have were not as well trained. They didn't
know the tricks of the trade that you learn usually
from an older person, you know, kind of passing that down.
(15:32):
Is that still kind of a problem or has that
kind of resolved itself a great.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Question, Yes, it's still a problem. We have really pushed
around the country with all the trades about mentorship and
doing a better job of mentoring these young men and women,
treating them all with respect, no matter gender, race, all
the color, all of that. You know, sometimes we call, well, Rebecca,
(16:00):
we call this reverse mentoring as well, with the savviness
young men and women have with it and phones and
drop boxes and apps and accessing things via new delivery
methods in construction, so we get some synergy that way too.
Our young men and women are training the older foremen
(16:24):
that have great experience in the field, know how to
build things and know how to run crews, but are
not savvy on technology. We know in our industry we
have to do a better job of mentoring these young
men and women and transitioning because to your point, we're
seeing a lot of a lot of people retire fully invested,
(16:45):
and you know, finding new leaders is a real challenge
for us as contractors around the country, identifying future leaders
that want to do it and that are ready to
do it, that can run projects, be a form and
a superintendent, a product manager for us. So we're doing
the best we can. I think we offered in our
(17:06):
apprenticeship polls some of that training, but I think a
lot of our contractors are high performing contractors do it
internal as well.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Okay, And I know part of the I think hesitation
to teach some of those things is if I'm doing
it super duper well and I'm paid at this level,
but I teach you how to do what I'm doing now,
I'm replaceable, you know, and if I'm not ready to
be replaced or not ready to retire, then I'm going
(17:34):
to hold on to that knowledge out of a fear
almost you know what I'm saying, is that truly how
that may have played out? Or do you think it
was just too busy to slow down?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I think that's some of that's old school and that
used to happen, and we've tried to correct that. You know, Remember,
if you're a union trades person in the union tractor.
You have these great define benefit plans that pay extremely
well the membership. The union members need need future men
(18:10):
and women to get into trade to keep those vest
to keep those defined benefit plans healthy and solve it.
So I think again, with COVID and just a lot
of people, a lot of men and women retiring in
our trade, you know, we're trying to do a lot
better job of onboarding, recruitment, retainage, but also making sure
we're training and mentoring future leaders for not only the union,
(18:35):
but for us as employees, as contractors.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, and let me ask you this. I know for
people like myself who spend majority of their time behind
a computer and in an office, we know that AI
is coming for us. We can feel the electronic breath
on our shoulders, so to speak. I do know that
I've seen some things where AI has also been incorporated
(19:01):
into some trades. Can you talk to that point and
how do trades people feel about AI in general? Do
they feel like they'll be replaced or is it just
a tool in addition to all their other tools in
their box.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I think it's a tool, you know, with regards to
safety and actually tool technology and tracking battery power and
where those tools are. We see it in design where
we can before we'd have to fully implement a design
coordinated with other trades before we fabricated, so we would
(19:38):
miss each other and avoid each other above a ceiling
per se. We're starting to AI starting to streamline some
of those things. Their helped The AI can help you
out with estimating, help you all identify equipment. If we
want to change a unit on a roof or at
your your house or apartment, you know we could we
could shoot a picture of the UH, the unit, the
(20:02):
code on the unit, and UH. It can give us
all the details of tonnages, electrical requirements cfms. So we're
starting to see some things in AI. Again, is challenging
for us to maneuver through it. A lot of our
contractors associations Rebecca have AI task force and steering committees
(20:22):
within our contractors association to try to educate our contractors
as we move forward. But I think it's a positive.
I don't think it's going to take jobs away. It's
just going to be more efficient. You're going to be
able to be more efficient, be able to track more things,
identify more things via safety and tools and some design
(20:43):
and estimating, which which I think will increase efficiency. And
ultimately we need to we need to take care of
our customers and get jobs done timely, and that that'll help.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Oh, yes, for sure, I like to I like the
analogy they heard on an interview Gosh a couple of
years back now, we were talking about AI. He was
actually big in the field, and he said, you know, yes,
will there be jobs that become absolute? Yes, He's like,
you have to think of it like when we went
from horse and buggy to automobiles. It didn't happen all
(21:18):
at once, but it did happen pretty fast, and people,
you know, it made the horses and the buggies not
necessary anymore because you have a car now, and it
was more efficient, and it went faster, sometimes not a
lot faster, but you know, it was just And he's like,
and we have to think of AI like that instead
(21:39):
of as the big evil robot in the movie that's
trying to kill us all.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
You know, we see it in fabrication technology with some robotics,
some welding, lasers, plasma cutters, which really increases efficiency. But again,
you still, you know, with our trade in our industry,
you still need out of labor, shop field, project management labor,
(22:04):
so I think it will increase efficiency and then when
there are markets or areas that are really short on labor,
you know this. This will help assist contractors in to
meet schedules and get projects done for customers.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Okay, I like that. Is there any particular one or
handful of trades that seem to be needing more hands
on deck than others or is it across the board
everybody's in desperate need.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, I think it's across the board. But you know
what I hear as traveling around the country, You know
the METP trades mechanical sheet metal, electrical plumbing is really
needed supplying demand for that, carpenters and iron workers as well,
roofers included.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I mean, it's tough to get men and women to
want to want to be roofers. That that's tough work
and you missed time due to weather. But I would
say the METP space for sure, mechanical electrical plumbing, carpentry,
iron workers, and roofers will probably the areas that are
somewhat concerning to contractors and general contractors and customers with
(23:18):
regards to getting jobs done on schedule.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Now, is that contributing to our housing crisis or do
you think that's more again weak wages and affordability.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know, I can't speak for that. I mean, I
do know that some type some of these housing developments
are lacking some manpower, so they're not doing as many projects,
are not doing as many houses at the same time
as they have in the past. But you know, I'm
not sure on the residential you know, I know the
(23:51):
commercial industrial aspect.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Okay. And you said you're a contractor, general contractor what kind?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I am a mechanical contractor, sheet metal mechanical plumbing contractor
based in Cleveland and Akron and all of northern Ohio.
And I do work in Pennsylvania, in some work in Virginia,
North Carolina, but we're based in northern Ohio.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay. So for you in your career, what would be
the most unusual or the most surprising thing that you
learned that you weren't anticipating when you went into that field.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Delivery methods have changed considerably. Customers would have you quote
projects and if you were low you would get the job.
I think customers a lot of customers, especially in healthcare
in our industry and industrial commercial industry. They want partners,
they want collaborative approaches. They want our contractors to assist
(24:55):
in design and have a collaborative approach with the engineer, architect,
general contractor and you know, all the METP trades. I
like that. It's better. It eliminates more friction on job
sites and less change orders. We just want to get
the job done. So the real big trend I've seen,
(25:17):
which I think is a positive, is just more of
a collaborative approach with the engineering community, the architects and
the contractors. And you see more collaborative approaches in the
field and in the shops with other trades, which is great.
You know, modulization, prefabrication, so that tends to you know,
(25:41):
the animosity and sometimes the issues you had on job
sites with trades button heads has really been mitigated because
of those new delivery methods. So I mean, and with
the shortages of manpower around the country, we've had to
team up with National mechanicals as well as some of
our competitors. We see that all the time. That's really
a trend that I would have never get. I would
(26:02):
have never thought fifteen years ago. I would I would
partner on a project with my main competitor, Well, I
have because of just labor shortages and we need you know,
we need additional resources and manpower to execute a project.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Wow, that's impressive. I wish say would do that when
it comes to building cars, because I know that's the
biggest frustration from a mechanical Like when my husband or
my husband and my son are mechanics and they're you know,
both of them are like they'll say other words, but
stupid engineer. You know, you used a computer to make
this work, but nobody can reach that bolt. And no,
(26:37):
you got to take off all this other stuff that
I don't really need to take off to get to
this one bit. And you know, there's been some speculation
that some of that's done on purpose to make it
harder so that you have to go to the dealership,
or of course the whole thing about making things so
that they fail on purpose so you have to buy
them again. But I think that's one thing with most aids,
(27:00):
maybe not automobiles, but most trades. We're not trying to
make you buy it again super soon, right, Like we're not.
That's not a philosophy there.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Most projects have a one year warranty, and we want
to do good work and quality work, and we don't
want to have to come back eight months later and
try to fix something. Right If after the warranty, if
they want to repair something or replace something, well then
we could we could talk to the customer about it.
But yeah, most projects, Rebecca, in the industrial commercial space
that we do work in have a one year one
(27:33):
y're guaranteed warranty. If something's not working, you have to
go back out there and fix it. We sure don't
want to do that right for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
And I think people are starting to really understand the concept,
which I mean I was taught it as a kid.
But you get what you pay for. So if you
don't want to spend a lot, that's fine. But whatever
your buying is not going to last that long either, absolutely,
so I hate it, but we're at the end of
our time. Let me ask you one other question. It's
a question I ask everybody. I'm curious. You're the expert.
(28:02):
Is there anything the audience needs to know about anything
we've talked about today, but especially about the Career Trade
Week that I didn't know to ask you about now.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I think if somebody wants to is it very interested?
All the websites of all the unions are accessible. You
can you can sign up on the websites. You know,
it's an opportunity to get paid first day, learn a
skilled trade, get great benefits. You know, uh, meet meet
(28:32):
some peers and friends, build relationships. It's it's hard work,
but I'll tell you what, it's a great opportunity in
the in the opportunities are endless, Rebecca. Young men and
women can get into the trade five six, seven years
from now. There's opportunities to be a superintendent, a foreman,
a project manager. So great opportunities if you want to
(28:55):
get involved and create relationships, friendships not only within the
within those people in your trade, but with other trades
as well. And again, that skilled trade will travel, so
if you if you want to leave and go to
the west coast or east coast or go south, you
know that that that trade set will follow you, which
is a great thing.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, I like that. And would you like to promo
your website.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Nationals actually mean National Careers in Tradesweek dot com National
Careers in Trade Tradesweek dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Awesome, Thank you so much, mister Martin. I really enjoyed
our chat today.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Thank you very much, thanks for having me, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with the Virginia News
Network and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!