June 8, 2025 • 51 mins
How do you plan a smooth and memorable trip across France using trains, rental cars, and buses? In this episode of the Join Us in France Travel Podcast, titled Navigating France by Train, Car, and Bus, host Annie Sargent chats with Stephen Nicholson about his 24-day journey through France. Stephen and his wife combined different types of transportation to explore big cities, small towns, and hidden gems—without joining a tour group.
They started in Paris and used the OuiGo high-speed train to reach Avignon, then added regional trains, rental cars, and local buses to visit places like Saint-Rémy-de-Provence, Carcassonne, Sarlat-la-Canéda, and Amboise. Stephen shares practical advice on booking train tickets, rebooking car rentals to save money, and using travel apps to avoid stress.
Annie and Stephen also talk about how to find the best parking in small villages, how to use luggage storage services, and why it’s smart to plan around French public holidays. They touch on lesser-known challenges like fuel station card holds and using Wise debit cards in Europe.
Whether you're planning to travel light, visit Les Plus Beaux Villages de France, or simply get the most out of your trip without overpacking your schedule, this episode is full of useful, real-world tips.
Subscribe to Join Us in France for more smart travel advice, inspiring guest stories, and honest discussions about what it’s really like to explore France at your own pace.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode549, cinq cent quarante-neuf.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withStephen Nicholson about slow traveling
(00:36):
through France by trains, cars, and buses.
We discuss the nuances of travelingbetween quaint villages, tips for ensuring
smooth transit experiences, and memorablehighlights from Stephen's 24-day journey.
Listen in for practical advice andcaptivating tales of French adventures.
This podcast runs on chocolatine,passable wifi, and the fabulous
(01:02):
support of delightful humans like you.
You book itinerary consults, strollaround Paris with me on the VoiceMap
app, ride shotgun in my zippy electriccar, brave the boot camp, or toss
a few euros my way on Patreon.
And I do a little happy dance every time.
Want to skip the adsand keep me caffeinated?
(01:26):
There's a link for that in the show notesor head to joinusinfrance.com/boutique
and vive les podcast nerds!
And don't forget to check out thewebsite that goes with this podcast.
That's where you'll find all thenames and places we mentioned spelled
out properly, links to hotels andrestaurants, the full transcripts
(01:48):
as well, and the transcript is superhandy, it makes the podcast searchable.
Maybe your memory is perfect, butmine isn't, so I use it all the time.
You'll find everything on the episodepage at joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Stephen today,
(02:12):
I'll discuss whether or not we'regoing towards a car-free Paris.
Some of us love thatidea, some of us do not.
Is it even realistic?
I have some data to share that willshed some light on this question.
(02:37):
Bonjour, Steven Nicholson, andwelcome to Join Us in France.
Bonjour, Annie.
Thanks for having me.
Wonderful to talk to you.
So you had a very niceleisurely trip to France.
You balanced trains, cars,you stayed in small places.
How long did you stay?
So we were in France for 24 days.
(02:59):
That's very nice.
And it was your firsttime in France, wasn't it?
First extended trip.
I was there for a few days incollege, but that is a long time ago.
Yes, yes.
So you jumped right in.
24 days for a first trip,that's brave, isn't it?
Well, my family's from England and wetypically go over there for three weeks
(03:20):
at least, and we've taken trips to Italyand to Europe, and we like three weeks.
It's long enough, you fullyutilized the cost of your
airfare and get immersed in it.
So that was something we were used to.
And it was just you and yourwife on this trip, right?
Yeah, yeah.
We're retired now, so we have moreflexibility to have longer trips.
(03:43):
Yeah, yeah.
You're young retirees.
You don't look like...
67.
All right, you just look young.
That's great.
All right, and your tripwas around May 2024, right?
Yeah, it was mid-April to mid-May.
Okay.
All right, very good.
So, you took a traindirectly from CDG to Avignon.
(04:06):
I'd like to hear about that experience.
What was it like?
Did it work out?
Not?
Tell me about that.
We arrived at the airport and Ihad budgeted three hours of time
from arrival to catching the train,just to be on the safe side, and
it took about an hour to get fromthe airplane to the train station.
So we've had plenty of paddingas far as time was concerned.
(04:30):
We took the OuiGo, which is the lower-costversion, and that was for two reasons,
one was the cost and one was also itjust matched up better with the time
that we wanted to leave the airport.
Now, we bought thesupplement to the ticket.
The prices are low.
You can pay the lower price andnot have a seat reservation.
(04:53):
But since we were travelingtogether, I paid the extra nine
euros for seat reservations.
Right.
And also, I wanted to make surewe were on the top level so we
got a better view, even thoughwe had a hard time staying awake.
Yes.
Now, the OuiGo does not have any cateringon board, so we did buy some snacks to
(05:17):
eat on the way, even though we'd had thechance to get a sandwich in the airport.
But it was smooth.
Yeah.
Finding the train was not difficult?
No, no, and you know, you needto show your ticket to get on
the platform, I didn't know thatbeforehand, but that seems to be
standard for the high-speed trains.
In the notes I mentioned that I wasa little worried about security of
(05:41):
the luggage, but the fact that onlyticketed passengers can get on and
they're going a long distance, it'snot like somebody getting on the RER
from the airport to Paris and they justhop on and then get off the next stop.
So I don't think people shouldhave to worry about luggage.
Yeah.
It's really not an issue.
On the RER, it is an issue because if youtake the RER from the airport into the
(06:04):
city and that train makes many stops alongthe way, you have several opportunities
for some scumbag to hop in the train,grab somebody's backpack or somebody's
suitcase, usually it's the backpacks thatthey go for, and run out of the train.
And the doors close and you're stuck.
(06:24):
This does not happen withthe express trains between
the airport and Gare du Nord.
So if you're going to do the RER,take the express one because it's
less likely to be a problem for you.
All right.
We had originally talked about rentinga car the entire time, but I definitely
(06:44):
was glad I made the choice of takingthe train just because it was so much
easier and cost-effective as well,especially when you could use OuiGo.
Right, so you used all threekinds of... You used OuiGo,
you used-
Inoui.
... Inoui, which is the more expensive, andthen you used something called Classic?
(07:05):
Yeah, OuiGo Classic.
OuiGo Classic, which we don't have inthe Southwest, so I've never taken that.
Yeah, that was in thelatter part of the trip.
And I can talk about that later.
Yeah, we can talk aboutthat a little later.
Okay.
So generally, I recommend people schedulethree hours between the time they
land and the time they take the train.
And it's true that if all goes well,if your plane isn't late, if the
(07:29):
delivery of your suitcase... But youwere traveling with carryon, right?
Yes.
Right.
So you didn't have to wait for delivery.
But you know, if there are nodelays at security, well, it's
passport control when you exit.
Some days passport control takes along time and sometimes it's really
quick, and there's no way to plan that.
Yeah.
I would still do three hours, eventhough I had a good experience this time.
(07:52):
I was very lucky, so...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it doesn't take much, you know,your plane's delayed and whatever,
and especially if you get the OuiGotickets, they're not refundable usually.
So, you know, you'd have to buy brandnew tickets, so yeah, take your time.
All right.
So then you made your way to Avignon.
Yeah.
So you get to the TGV station, and thenyou take the local train into Avignon.
(08:16):
Right.
And we got an Airbnb very close tothe train station, which was kind
of a thing that we did throughout,so we didn't have to walk very far.
And then we used the local trains duringour four days in Avignon to go to Arles.
So that was very seamless.
I bought the tickets the day of.
We took the local bus toSaint-Rémy-de-Provence.
(08:40):
Right, a regional bus.
Yeah.
And that was fine.
You always wonder about where you buytickets and how you deal with that.
And it was pretty straightforward,at least there in Avignon.
Yeah, typically the bus station,the regional bus station is
right by the train station.
Most cities I've ever, I don't rememberthis, I can't think of an exception except
(09:05):
for Paris because it's giant, and thereare fewer regional... But in the rest of
France, the bus station, the regional busstation is right by the train station.
And you just go there, buy aticket, get on, for the most
part, that's how it works.
So it's pretty seamless.
Yeah.
Those were the two publictransportations we used in Avignon.
(09:26):
And then we went, we rented a car at theTGV station, so we took the train out to
the TGV station and rented a car there.
One point that I was going to bringup was that I was looking for prices.
And prices change on rental cars,there's not one price all the time.
So I made a reservation fairly early,which I thought was a pretty good price.
(09:47):
And then I went back and lookedlater, which is dangerous because
you might see a lower price well...You might see a lower price and
think, "Oh, I should have waited."
It turns out though that most ofthe rental car operations will
let you cancel your reservation.
So if you see a goodprice, go ahead and do it.
(10:07):
But don't hesitate to look for alower price in the future and then
just cancel your old reservationand then make the new reservation.
So...
I would do it the opposite direction.
I would make the new reservationand cancel the old one.
Right?
Well, that's what,yeah, that's what I did.
I...
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, instead of waitingand thinking, "Oh, is it going
to go down? Is it going to godown?" Just make the reservation.
(10:30):
And then if it does go down, just cancelthe old one and make the new one, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, cars you can normally cancel.
I saved $100 just by doing that.
Very good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we stayed four days in an Airbnbjust outside of the Luberon and
just took trips, usually half-hourdrive to various villages.
(10:52):
The whole trip was kind ofbuilt around these, the Les
Plus Beaux Village de France.
Yes.
I looked for areas that had thehighest concentration of those
villages and Provence was one of them,and the Dordogne was another one.
So I kind of used those asplaces I wanted to get to.
And then I built the rest of thetrip kind of around that so I
(11:16):
could make the loop around France.
Right.
And yeah, the Aveyron also has a highconcentration, there's a few areas
like that that have quite a few.
Yeah.
And that's a good way to go.
And in middle of April to middle of May,that's where tourism starts up again.
So these villages are not going to becompletely dead, there's going to be some,
(11:39):
like the... the little pottery shop andthe restaurants are going to be open.
Whereas if you go in January, we'rerecording this in January, I can guarantee
you it's all going to be locked up.
Nothing is open the rest of the year.
We returned the car to the trainstation, the TGV train station, and
this was our longest day of travel,so we took the train from Avignon TGV
(12:04):
to Avignon Central, Avignon Centralto Nîmes, and then that was a regional
train, then we got a connection toan inter-city train to Carcassonne.
We got off there, stored our luggagenear the train station, and then we
walked to the chateau, or the town.
And looked around there and thenwent back and got our luggage and
(12:27):
then caught the regional trainfrom Carcassonne to Toulouse.
So yeah, I want to, you know,break that down a little bit.
So you arrived in Carcassonne andstored your luggage somewhere.
Was this lockers in the city, inthe train station or did you arrange
for, like, Nanny Bags or something?
(12:48):
Yeah, I don't remember the exact app.
I had two apps on my phonefor companies that show people
who will store your luggage.
Yeah.
And I found one that was closeto the train station and they're
typically about five euros per bag.
Yep.
And you have to tell them approximatelywhen, what time are you going to be there.
Which you know, because you'regoing to arrive by train, so...
(13:09):
Right.
I mean, they're usually places thatthis is one of their many businesses.
Exactly.
They do laundry.
They rent out Airbnbs and this iskind of a subset of their business.
Right.
They probably also, like, if you pick upa package, or if you return a package,
they will also do Amazon returns and theywill do other returns for other companies.
(13:31):
there are plenty of... Like, theone that does it near me is, it's
a little boutique thing that sellsjust local produce, locally made
things, some cheeses, some wines.
And they also do all sorts of otherthings on the side, so probably
keep your bags, things like that.
And it's great becauseit makes your life easy.
(13:53):
They probably don't do this every day,but it's very handy if you need that.
I'll put a link to Nanny Bag, it's theone that I've been recommending, they
seem to be, you know... And most ofthese places, they will sign up with
different ones, like their own Nanny Bagand their own whoever else does this.
You know, it's the same storejust going through different
aggregators is how it works.
(14:15):
Let's dial back a little bitto your time in the Luberon.
Okay.
Did you have a favorite thing youdid in Avignon or the Luberon area?
Was there something that stands out?
Well, another focus was to visit markets.
And so, the market inSaint-Rémy was very nice.
(14:37):
And just visiting the smallvillages, I just enjoy that.
And especially that time of yearbecause, as you said, there are things
happening but it's not super crowded.
Exactly.
It's not like the height of touristseason which would be probably
July is, especially in Provencebecause of the lavender fields,
(14:57):
that's when everybody wants to go.
So between middle of June tomiddle of July or late July
even, it's going to be mobbed.
Seriously mobbed.
Yeah.
So we saw probably six or sevenlittle villages, some that were on the
list, some that were not on the list.
But-
Sure.
It was fun.
Just find a car park and walkin, walk around, get a pastry.
(15:21):
Yeah.
Enjoy yourself.
Yeah.
So it's interesting.
You wrote in your notes that forthe cities where you took the car,
you picked ahead of time with GoogleMaps where you were going to park.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah.
I just wanted to... I didn't want toget to one of these villages and be
wandering around and getting into partsof the village I wasn't supposed to be.
(15:45):
So instead of saying I'm going togo to Roussillon, or I would look
specifically on the map and findwhere the car parks were and I
would go to the car park... Yes.
... directly.
Because each of the villages hasone or a number of car parks and
you're going to have to park there.
I'm not going to try to park anywhereelse except the designated spots.
(16:05):
Right.
And this is an excellent way to do this.
Just instead of setting your GPS to,"I'm going to Roussillon," for example,
I happen to know that in Roussillonthere is a parking area right close
to where the Sentier des Ocres starts,where everybody goes, and you pay what?
10 bucks or something for the day.
(16:26):
Nobody stays for the whole day.
You know, you have cars coming andgoing all day, because they walk
the Sentier and then head out.
There's not that muchyou can do in Roussillon.
But it's very good to set yourGPS to the parking spot, and
this is true also in big cities.
You know, don't say, "I'mgoing to Toulouse." No.
Say, "I'm going to my parking,wherever I'm going to park." Most
(16:49):
small villages that get a lot ofvisitors will be prepared so they
have some signs, but you never know.
Maybe the wind blew it off or somethingand you have no idea where to go and
then you find yourself on these, inthese crazy little medieval streets
with a car and you're like, "No,I don't wanna be here." You know?
So another thing is you mentioned thatyou used a parking application instead
(17:13):
of cash to pay for your parking.
How did that work out for you?
Yeah.
It worked out fine.
One nice thing was that you'd havethis line of people at the meter
trying to put their car informationin, and I would just get onto my phone.
I think it was PayByPhone was the app.
In that particular area, I think theyused one particular app.... and you
(17:34):
already had your car information in theapp, so you basically just said, "I'm
here," and, "How long do you want to stayfor?" You're not trying to figure out
what buttons to push and, people behindyou getting annoyed at you because you
can't read the thing correctly, and so...
Yep.
That can be a problem because if there's along line... And I've even made mistakes.
(17:56):
I used those horodateurs is what they'recalled, the machines to pay for parking.
And sometimes you, especially if, whenit comes to how long you're going to
stay, so you say, "Oh, I'm going to stayfor plus, plus, plus, plus, plus," and
you see the price go up and up and up.
And at a certain point, theprice quadruples because
you went an extra minute.
(18:16):
And you're like, "Oh, no,no, I don't want to do that."
And so you try and back up andyou can't and, oh, it's like
you have to start over again.
So the apps are good, but the problemwith the apps is that, different
areas will have different apps, right?
Did you, were you able touse yours in several towns?
Yes.
Ah, okay.
Yeah.
So that was good.
(18:37):
I didn't need to, but if I decidedI needed to stay an extra hour,
you could do that on your app.
You wouldn't have to go back to the-
To the car.
... parking lot car.
Yeah.
Excellent.
As long as you havereception, phone reception.
Right, you need data to do this.
Very good.
You mentioned also using your creditcard to fuel up and using the Wise card.
(19:01):
This is not somethingthat has come up a lot.
Yeah.
Are you familiar withthe Wise card at all?
I know what it is.
I don't have one, but I know what it is.
Okay.
But explain, please.
There's plenty of people who don't know.
Yeah, so the Wise card is like adebit card, and you put money in your
currency, so US dollars for me, andthen you can convert it to euros, so
(19:23):
it then has euros in your account.
It's more seamless to use in variousforeign countries, and also the exchange
rate is much better, or it's a goodexchange rate that you're guaranteed.
Now, what I had happen to me was Iwent to fuel up, and I don't let the
balance be too large on this debitcard, just from a safety standpoint.
(19:45):
And I was going to buy maybe30 euros of fuel, so I had
maybe 70 euros in my account.
I put the card in, and it won'taccept it because they hold, like,
150 euros when they do it, even thoughyou're only going to buy 30 euros.
Right, because they don't know howmuch you're going to buy, so they
(20:05):
just put a big hold on it, okay?
Yeah.
So you'll see that holdon your credit card.
It'll go away.
But temporarily, so... And then there wasone case, the same, I think it was the
same place, I was just trying to buy fuel.
One of my credit cards didn't work,so I tried the Wise card first, it
didn't have enough balance in it, thenI used a regular American credit card.
(20:25):
It didn't work.
I was starting to panic because Ihad a train to catch, and then I
tried the third, you know, the thirdoption, and it finally did work.
Yeah, yeah.
But you do see that, you do see thisthing come up on your credit card.
If you look at your balance andyou think, "Why did they charge
me 150 euros?" And they're not.
It's just a temporary thing, but itdoesn't just go away immediately.
(20:46):
Sometimes it takes a day to go away.
Right.
They put that hold on there.
So don't panic.
Yeah, we have the exact sameproblem with EV car chargers.
They also put a hold on, I don'tthink they ever put on 150 because
you couldn't possibly spend that muchwith an EV, but whatever it is, it's a
big hold, some people are always like,"Oh, what is this?" It just goes away.
(21:09):
They end up charging you whateveryou did use and not the whole thing.
Are you happy with yourWise card otherwise?
Yeah, yeah.
It does allow you to take two ATMwithdrawals per month, but that's
not huge, but then you don't reallyneed that much cash these days, so...
No, yeah.
... it's not that much of a restriction.
(21:29):
Okay, so now we're back to Carcassonne.
I've had somebody ask me once on anitinerary call, and so I'll relate this
so those who are listening know this,if you want to stop in Carcassonne for
however many hours to visit on yourway to Toulouse, for example, you just
buy a train ticket to Carcassonne.
You can't buy a ticketwith a stop in Carcassonne.
(21:52):
It doesn't work that way.
So just buy ticket to Carcassonne and buyanother ticket, Carcassonne to Toulouse
if that's where you're going to end up.
For some reason, this person hadn't,she had never thought of that.
And Carcassonne, the train stationis not right by where the medieval
citadel is, but it's not very far.
So you stored your luggage andthen you hoofed it to the citadel?
(22:15):
Yes, I did.
It was interesting because Ifollowed Google Maps, and Google
Maps led me onto this mud path.
It had been raining that day, andit was, yeah, it was an experience.
I told my wife, " Okay, Google Mapssays to go this way," and we go in
there, and all of a sudden, we've gota inch of mud on our shoes, and I said,
"Oh, I think this was a bad idea."
(22:36):
Yeah.
So don't always trust Google Maps.
If it seems like it's a badidea, probably is a bad idea.
Yeah.
Anyway, so yeah, we went to the Citadel.
Now, because we had all that travelbeforehand, we got there in the
afternoon, and I think it may havebeen a weekend, but it was very busy.
I think you said it was May 1st, actually.
(22:56):
It was May Day.
It was the day before May Day.
Okay, it was the day before May Day.
Oh, these are super busy weekends.
Yeah, I didn't have the best experience atCarcassonne just because it was so busy.
It just seemed... seemedvery touristy to me.
Well, it is if you go on one of thoselong weekends . It really is, because
(23:19):
you have visitors, but you also haveall the French families that have been
saying, "Oh, we'll go to Carcassonneone of these days," and they all go
because they have a long weekend,so why not go on their long weekend?
And it's very, very busy.
So yeah.
I would avoid Carcassonne, youknow, the weekend around May
1st, the weekend around May 8th.
(23:39):
Easter weekend, wouldalso be very, very busy.
The opposite thing is also true.
If you go in the winter, if you goin January or February, well, you're
better off going on the weekend, becausethat's when there will be a few people.
If you go on a Monday morning inFebruary, you'll be the only one there.
(23:59):
So it's just...
Yeah.
... you know, timing makes a big difference.
It does, yeah.
All right.
So, you enjoyed Carcassonneeven though it was very busy.
Yeah.
It's beautiful, but it was very busy.
Yeah.
And then you made your way toToulouse for two nights, right?
Two nights in Toulouse, yeah.
So, we took Elyse's VoiceMaptour, which was excellent.
(24:22):
Oh, good.
I think it's great.
You know, I'm always mentioning myown VoiceMap tours because, you know?
But I think Elyse does a great joband I wish she would do more of them.
Yeah, I do, Also.
It was very interestingbeing in Toulouse on May Day.
Yeah.
Why?
Well, we go out and there are all thesepolice officers with machine guns,
(24:43):
and we think, "What is going on here?"Are we going to be afraid for our
life?" So we went and did the VoiceMaptour, and it was a nasty day that day.
It was raining.
Ah.
So we got through most of thetour, and then we decided we were
going to go back to the apartment.
And we ran right into the march.
(25:03):
They were marching in downtown.
Yeah.
And so we're thinking, "Okay, how do weeven get across..." We had to go across
the parade route, and all the peoplewith their banners and... It was just
interesting to see their enthusiasmfor that particular... It's different
than Labor Day in the United States.
Very much so, yes.
(25:23):
So, Labor Day in the United States, you'regoing to have floats and fun and whatever.
In France, it's a daywhen most of the syndicat.
So it's a day when unions, calledsyndicat in French, call people to
demonstrate, and it's usually not...I mean, they always have security.
(25:44):
They always have people with machine gunsbecause that's how they do this in France.
But it's usually not violent.
I don't remember there beingany problems with the May 1st
parade in Toulouse last year.
it's usually fine, but it canbe a little bit startling.
Yeah, it was a little surprising at first.
(26:06):
But, you know, by the time wegot through the crowd and we were
relaxed, it wasn't scary or anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, it's just very different.
And in Paris, they have... So in Paris,if you go around The Louvre, not very far
from The Louvre on Rue de Rivoli you havethis big gold statue of Joan of Arc, and
(26:28):
that's where the extreme right wing peoplealways meet up to do their demonstration.
that has tended to be a bitmore tense than the others.
I would personally avoid that area.
Not that there's been bigproblems recently, but...
So how did you like Toulouse,not on May Day, so on May 2nd?
(26:50):
Were you there on May 2nd as well?
Well, we still saw a lot ofit, and actually, I was very
pleasantly surprised with Toulouse.
I thought it was beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, just so different than a lot ofthe other larger places that we went into.
We went to Bordeaux and Paris, of course,and they use stone as their building
(27:11):
material, and Toulouse with the brick.
Mm-hmm.
So yeah.
I would definitelyrecommend going to Toulouse.
Yeah.
There's very fun things to do.
I mean, I wouldn't spend two weeksor whatever, but for two or three
nights, there's plenty to do.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And then if you spend longer...... goto Carcassonne, go to Albi, go to Foix.
(27:34):
You can have very nice day trips.
We have a whole category on the websiteabout day trips you can do from Toulouse.
So, lots, plenty to do in here.
Then you went to, let's see,ah, you took a train to Cahors?
Yeah.
So that was interesting.
Originally we were going to takethe train, we were going to stay in
(27:56):
Carcassonne for two nights, and thenI decided to stay in Toulouse instead.
Good.
Good decision.
And the ultimate goal was to get tothe Dordogne, specifically Sarlat.
There's a train to Sarlat, but onceyou get there, you still need a car.
Yep.
So, we thought about getting acar in Bordeaux, but that's almost
(28:19):
a two-and-a-half-hour drive.
So then I was searching forsomewhere else to get a car.
And Brive?
Brive-la-Gaillarde, yes.
Yeah.
That's a big enough place thatthey did have rental cars.
So I needed to get there, but we weretrying to limit how much we did in a day,
so I was looking for somewhere betweenToulouse and Brive that we could stop.
(28:40):
And so, Cahors looked like a good place.
It is a nice place.
So we spent the night there, andI would recommend going there too.
It was very pretty.
The old part of the city there, youknow, there's some houses that had
been stuccoed, but it seems like alot of people are taking the stucco
off, and then you have the moreoriginal brick and timber construction.
(29:03):
And so it's very pretty.
Yeah, so you have half-timberedhouses that, in the '50s, they were
noticing that they were degradingquickly, and so they said, "Well,
let's just stucco over all of that."
And so you ended up with medievalhouses covered with stucco.
(29:24):
And now that they have better products toprotect the brick and the wood, they are,
you know, most people are removing thestucco and you see bare brick and timber
for the half-timbered kind of houses.
Which makes the place look very nice.
And Cahors has a lot ofmedieval kind of houses.
(29:47):
They're not all beautifully res-restored, but some are very, very nice,
and Le Pont Valentré is very nice.
If you like wine, there's plentyof wine to taste in Cahors.
But you guys don't drink, right?
Yeah.
Right.
And how is that, not drinking in France?
Well, we don't eat outa huge amount either.
(30:08):
We tend to bring stuff in fromthe supermarkets or the markets
and cook it in our Airbnb.
We do eat out lunch sometimes, soit's not like we're out all the
time and worrying about looking oddbecause we're not getting any wine.
Yeah.
Nobody cares, I mean, honestly, I wasout at lunch today with my husband,
(30:29):
cute little restaurant, in a smallvillage near us, full of people.
I think one table had wine on it.
Everybody else was drinkingwater, soda, you know.
French people drink less andless wine, especially at lunch,
now anymore, it's unusual.
Oh, there was some people drinking a beer.
Yeah, there was some guys drinking a beer.
(30:51):
I will drink beer.
Yeah, I'm like, "Oh, maybe I'lldrink a beer. No, I don't want
a beer." So I just... But yeah,so that, that happens too.
Yeah.
So we left the next morning to goto Brive and rent the car, which was
interesting because there wasn't arental counter in the train station.
They must have some arrangementwhere the rental agent brings
(31:15):
the information, leaves it atthe train information counter.
So we went there and the person thatwasn't a employee of the rental car
agency, and we got our key and thedocumentation, and then the car was parked
in the parking lot at the train station.
(31:36):
But that did require ussending our license and our
passport to the rental agency.
Ahead of time.
Yeah.
They sent me a WhatsApp message saying,"Can you provide this information for
us?" Which, again, I didn't expect that.
But it worked out fine.
(31:56):
Took pictures of our documents andtold them when we were going to be
there and rented the car and broughtit back and handed it back in.
So it worked.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, Brive-la-Gaillarde isnot a touristy place at all.
So, it might have been a betteridea to rent from Cahors, because
Cahors gets more visitors.
(32:17):
But I have never tried to rent acar in either town, so I don't know.
If I had advised you, I would havetold you to rent a car in Toulouse
and drop it off in Bordeaux probably.
That would have been my advice, becauseyou save yourself a lot of... There's
a lot more choice for car rentals inbig cities like Bordeaux and Toulouse.
Yeah, there was only one particular brand.
(32:40):
There weren't more than one.
And one thing that you ran into aswell is that French supermarkets
rent cars and vans, but these arefor people who live in France.
I have never heard of anybody whodoesn't have a French address, a French
electrical bill, or water bill, orsomething proof of residency, to be
(33:01):
able to rent a vehicle from Leclerc, orAuchan, or Carrefour, or places like that.
But French people, Frenchresidents can rent.
I mean, several times I'verented moving vans from them.
If you're moving a big, big pieceof furniture, it's like the U-Haul,
you know, like that sort of thing.
Except that it's alwaysattached to a big grocery store.
(33:24):
And they also have smaller cars, butI don't think they would rent them to
people who were not residents in France.
For people who are not residents, you haveto go through Hertz, or Sixt, or Avis, or
you know, one of the big ones like that.
And Sixt is quite big in France.
I don't... I'm not sure if theyare very big in the US, but...
(33:46):
They are not.
I did not use them just becauseI wasn't familiar with them.
I used Hertz and Avis.
Right.
Right.
But that's fine.
So, then you spent some...A few days in the Dordogne.
Yeah.
So it was a pleasant drive fromthe train station to Sarlat.
And we specifically arranged thatwe'd be there on a Saturday, which
(34:08):
is big market day, and our Airbnbwas right along the main thoroughfare
in the old part of the city.
That was nice, just walking out thedoor, wandering through the market,
buying some foie gras and somebaguettes and some goat cheese, and
taking it back and having it for lunch.
Yep.
And then we did a couple of day trips to,well, actually from the train station,
(34:33):
rather than going straight to the Airbnb,which we couldn't get into, we visited
Rocamadour and Martel, which are bothon that list of most beautiful villages.
Yeah.
And then one of the other days wewent to Domme and La Roque Gajac?
And then another day we wentto the Chateau Millandes.
(34:55):
Milland?
Yeah.
Chateau de Millande with Josephine Baker.
Right.
And they also have a raptorshow, which was really-
Yeah.
I love the bird show.
Yeah, the bird show is great.
Yeah, the bird show.
It's great.
And the Chateau Beynac?
Yes, the Chateau de Beynac.
Beautiful.
Yeah, I love that.
I like medieval history.
So yeah, we spent four days in Sarlatand then returned the car and took
(35:20):
the regional train into Bordeaux.
So you returned the car in Brive,same place you picked it up?
Yep.
Yes, same place.
Yep.
And then took the regional trainto Bordeaux, which is easy-peasy.
Yep.
Got an Airbnb by the train stationagain, and then used the trams to
get into the main part of the city.
(35:42):
We did a walking tour, audiowalking tour there as well.
Was it a VoiceMap or somebody else?
It was a VoiceMap, but it wasn't-
One of us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why don't...?
You need to do a one for Bordeaux.
Yeah.
Was it okay, though?
Was it interesting?
It was okay, but it wasn'tas good as you and Elyse.
Yeah.
We put in a lot of time to ourVoiceMap tours and other people, they
(36:04):
just, "Mm, let's just do something."
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Bordeaux was very differentthan Toulouse, but still nice.
Yes.
Very nice.
Yeah.
Bordeaux is a beautiful town.
It's just, the feeling isvery different, you know?
It's just not... It had moreEnglish for a long time.
(36:26):
We didn't have that in Toulouse.
Yeah.
I guess it was also a lot of theold parts were torn down and then
kind of rebuilt in this style.
So that was good.
We did go to the wine museumbecause we don't like wine, but...
Right.
That's a good reason not to go.
I mean, honestly.
If you don't like wine, why?
(36:47):
Yeah.
We had thought of originally skippingBordeaux and just going directly to Tours.
But I thought, ah, it'd be niceto see something different.
And there was... it wasn't veryeasy to get, it was easier to
go to Bordeaux, spend the night.
Again, make it more relaxing.
I didn't want to have asix-hour day of changing trains.
(37:07):
So that was...
Yes, yes.
Brive to Tours would be complicated.
Yeah.
I'm sure you can do it if you arebent on not having a good day.
Yeah.
Yeah, much easier to go toBordeaux and then directly.
Yeah.
And then we took the, this is ourINOUI trip, and we decided to go
(37:27):
first class because it wasn't thatmuch more expensive than second
class when we bought the tickets.
So we splurged.
So is now a good time to tellme the differences between
all these types of trains?
Is it worth the extramoney, or we are same?
I mean, if I had the option of savingmoney, I would take advantage of it.
(37:48):
But that's just me.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not like... You might... Somepeople might think, "Oh, I don't want to
ride with the riffraff in the lower cost."
Is it really riffraff, though,or was it just regular people?
No, it's not.
Yeah, no.
It's just regular people.
I would have no problem doing that.
It was fun going in first class, I mean,if it's not that much more expensive.
(38:10):
But there are cases where theOuiGo can be significantly cheaper.
And it's not really that muchdifferent from my perspective.
If you travel light and you'reokay bringing your own drinks and
food, then OuiGo is just fine.
Now, if you have more suitcases,bigger... you know, if you have a
big suitcase, whatever, it's betterto be in first class because you
(38:34):
have more room and things like that.
But you know, it...
Yeah.
There are good options.
Exactly, it's good to have options.
France has a great train system.
Yeah.
So the last thing.
We've been talking a long time, sowe need to speed it up, but, you had
some adventures in the Loire Valley.
You did Loire Valley without a car?
Yeah.
We did a whole episode aboutthat, it was Episode 432.
(38:57):
How did that work out for you?
From Tours, you went toAmboise, which is easy.
Yeah, that was easy.
And you could see two chateaus there,we just went to the one, the one
associated with Leonardo da Vinci.
Yeah, Clos Lucé.
Yeah.
We went to Langeais?
Langeais yeah.
That was good.
(39:17):
The trains are less frequent, soyou have to be patient in terms
of it's not like you can go andget back exactly when you want to.
You may have to wait a little bit.
Yeah.
And then we had our trip toChenonceau, which, again, it's
not as regular as Amboise.
And the weekend we were in thatarea, in the Loire Valley, it
(39:40):
was the Ascension Day/whateverthe other holiday was this year.
Victory in Euro- I don't know.
It... Was it Victory in Europe?
Yeah.
It was
May 8th and... Yeah, itwas around May 8th, yep.
It's a long weekend.
So I bought tickets for Chenonceau,and I thought, "Oh, I'll just
buy the train tickets the daybefore," and I went to buy them.
(40:01):
Hmm, not that week.
Not that week.
Nope.
So it was sold out even thoughit was a regional train.
And so what we ended up doing wasfinding a train to the village just
before Chenonceau, and having to walkfive miles, to get to Chenonceau.
We'd already committed to buying thetickets, and so we toughed it out.
(40:24):
Yeah, yeah.
But the word to the wise isdon't always assume that the
regional train will have room.
Those weekends are very, very busy.
I've said this a million times, but ifit's Easter, May 1st, May 8th, watch out.
All the French people are out,and they will book everything.
(40:44):
Like, everything.
Right.
So it worked out okay, but itcould have been... I was panicking
there for a little while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, what did you learnabout France on this trip?
Overall, was it a good experience?
Tell me more.
Yeah.
My wife was a little hesitant at first.
Americans think the Frenchdon't like Americans.
And so my wife was hesitant aboutthe trip from that perspective.
(41:09):
But we've taken trips to manyother countries, so this was
not our first time traveling.
So we have experience around theworld, and my wife said this was
the best trip that we've been on.
So it was a combination of the food,even though we didn't eat out a lot,
just the food in general that we'vebought in markets, the pastries, the
(41:31):
friendliness of the people, especiallygoing into the shop, making sure you
say, "Bonjour," and, you know, that goesa long way, and people are very nice.
So as a consequence, we arecoming back again this year.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
So we're going to spendanother three weeks.
(41:51):
So, obviously we had a greattime, and we're going to spend
a lot of the time down in yourdirection in Albi and in Narbonne.
Oh, nice.
Yeah
Nice.
There's an episode coming aboutBéziers that you want to hear,
that no one has listened to.
Okay.
Yeah.
We planned on going there.
Yeah.
So that'd be great.
Yeah.
(42:11):
Wonderful.
And you don't even speak very goodFr- I mean, you can pronounce French,
so you probably speak a little bit?
Yeah.
I've used Duolingo and I'm usingBabbel this time to try to learn it.
I can read it well.
I can speak it okay.
I have the hardest timeunderstanding people speaking.
(42:31):
Right.
Right.
But even if you're not very good atFrench, people are friendly to you, right?
I mean, it's...
Oh yeah, yeah.
We only had a few cases wherethey couldn't speak some English.
But even then, I knew enoughFrench that I could communicate.
I could say, "Je parle un peufrançais," you know, so...
Perfect.
(42:51):
Very good.
Well, Steven, thank you so muchfor talking to me about your trip.
You shared some very interestingstuff, a lot of warning to people
to do this, do that, don't do that.
So that's very helpfulfor future travelers.
Thank you so much and I wish youanother wonderful trip in France.
Okay.
Thank you.
Merci beaucoup.
(43:12):
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(43:32):
A special shout-out this week tomy new Join Us in France champions,
Jude and Liz G. And thank you,Sheree Noel, for updating your
pledge up to Groupie du Podcast.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I
would love to have you pledge more soyou can have access to more rewards.
(43:56):
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
I'm recording ahead this week, so I don'thave any new VoiceMap reviews to share.
But if you're curious about whatlisteners think of my VoiceMap tours,
(44:19):
head over to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
That stands for VoiceMap reviews.
You'll find lots of feedback fromfellow travelers who've walked the
streets of Paris with me in their ear.
Maybe your review willbe the next one I read.
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
(44:40):
It's best for me as well, because I getto keep more of what you pay instead
of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it'sa manual process, so don't expect it
to be instant like it would be if youwere buying directly from the app.
But most of you listening to me rightnow plan their trips at least a few
days, weeks, or months in advance,so you probably have plenty of time.
(45:04):
To use your tour code, open VoiceMap,tap on tour codes at the bottom right,
enter the code, and download the tour.
You own it forever, even if youchange phones, just log into your
VoiceMap account to access it again.
The tours work without data becausethe audio images and maps are
downloaded to your phone, and GPS worksanywhere, even without cell service.
(45:28):
Best of all, you can listen in virtualplayback from anywhere in the world.
Perfect if Paris is notin your immediate plans.
So yes, take me in yourpocket with VoiceMap.
If you're planning a trip to Franceand want expert help, you can hire
me as your itinerary consultant.
It's busy season, so book earlyat joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(45:51):
Usually, I have openings within amonth, but right now it's more like
two or three months out, so don't wait.
Let's talk about something that comes upoften in France and especially in Paris.
Are Parisians ready togive up cars in the city?
This debate gets a lot of attention,and I want to give you the latest on
what's happening and how it ties intoFrance's push towards greener transport.
(46:16):
So back in March 2024, Parisianswere asked a pretty direct question
during a public consultation.
The city wanted to know, are you infavor of turning 500 more streets
into green pedestrian-friendly zonesacross all neighborhoods of Paris?
(46:36):
And guess what?
66% of the people who voted said yes.
But here's the thing.
The voter turnout was very low,less than 4% of registered voters
actually went to the polls.
Still, the city is moving ahead, andthis will mean that about 100,000
parking spots will be removed from Paris.
(46:59):
That's a big shift.
This isn't just about onevote in Paris, though.
Nationwide, things are changing too.
The ADEME, that's France'sAgency for Ecological Transition,
published a study in September 2024.
Now, ADEME, I should say, is thegovernment agency that works on all
(47:21):
things related to sustainability, fromenergy efficiency to clean transport.
They're also a key player in theelectrification of transport in France.
They help fund and guide projects forelectric vehicles, charging stations,
and more eco-friendly urban planning.
Anyway, their study asked peoplein French cities with more than
(47:43):
100,000 residents what they thinkabout sustainable transport measures,
and the results were very telling.
77% of people support more pedestrianzones, 65% are in favor of speed
limits of 30 kilometers per hour,unless you're behind the wheel,
and then that's awfully slow.
(48:05):
And a huge 85% want more bike lanes.
That shows a strong shift in publicopinion toward more sustainable mobility.
People are more willing to acceptchanges that reduce pollution and noise.
Of course, not everyone agrees.
Some elected officials and drivers'rights groups still push back
(48:26):
against these changes, worriedabout access and convenience.
But overall, it's clear that more andmore people in France, not just Parisians,
are open to rethinking how we use carsin cities and how we can move toward a
cleaner, quieter, and greener future.
If you have noticed these changesin your travels in France or have
(48:47):
thoughts about car-free city life,I'd love to hear from you, perhaps
on Facebook, or perhaps as a patron.
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan,
who produced the transcripts.
And get ready for an incredible journeyon our next episode of Join Us in France.
I'll be chatting with RowenaSjovall as she takes us through
(49:09):
her adventurous hike along theChemin du Puy and the Célé Valley.
These are all on the Camino, right?
She shares memorable encounters,tackling rain-soaked trails,
and breathtaking landscapes.
You won't want to missher captivating story.
We also talk about planning, perseverance,and the joy of exploring France on foot.
(49:32):
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time, so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir!
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(49:53):
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode549, cinq cent quarante-neuf.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withStephen Nicholson about slow traveling
(00:36):
through France by trains, cars, and buses.
We discuss the nuances of travelingbetween quaint villages, tips for ensuring
smooth transit experiences, and memorablehighlights from Stephen's 24-day journey.
Listen in for practical advice andcaptivating tales of French adventures.
This podcast runs on chocolatine,passable wifi, and the fabulous
(01:02):
support of delightful humans like you.
You book itinerary consults, strollaround Paris with me on the VoiceMap
app, ride shotgun in my zippy electriccar, brave the boot camp, or toss
a few euros my way on Patreon.
And I do a little happy dance every time.
Want to skip the adsand keep me caffeinated?
(01:26):
There's a link for that in the show notesor head to joinusinfrance.com/boutique
and vive les podcast nerds!
And don't forget to check out thewebsite that goes with this podcast.
That's where you'll find all thenames and places we mentioned spelled
out properly, links to hotels andrestaurants, the full transcripts
(01:48):
as well, and the transcript is superhandy, it makes the podcast searchable.
Maybe your memory is perfect, butmine isn't, so I use it all the time.
You'll find everything on the episodepage at joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Stephen today,
(02:12):
I'll discuss whether or not we'regoing towards a car-free Paris.
Some of us love thatidea, some of us do not.
Is it even realistic?
I have some data to share that willshed some light on this question.
(02:37):
Bonjour, Steven Nicholson, andwelcome to Join Us in France.
Bonjour, Annie.
Thanks for having me.
Wonderful to talk to you.
So you had a very niceleisurely trip to France.
You balanced trains, cars,you stayed in small places.
How long did you stay?
So we were in France for 24 days.
(02:59):
That's very nice.
And it was your firsttime in France, wasn't it?
First extended trip.
I was there for a few days incollege, but that is a long time ago.
Yes, yes.
So you jumped right in.
24 days for a first trip,that's brave, isn't it?
Well, my family's from England and wetypically go over there for three weeks
(03:20):
at least, and we've taken trips to Italyand to Europe, and we like three weeks.
It's long enough, you fullyutilized the cost of your
airfare and get immersed in it.
So that was something we were used to.
And it was just you and yourwife on this trip, right?
Yeah, yeah.
We're retired now, so we have moreflexibility to have longer trips.
(03:43):
Yeah, yeah.
You're young retirees.
You don't look like...
67.
All right, you just look young.
That's great.
All right, and your tripwas around May 2024, right?
Yeah, it was mid-April to mid-May.
Okay.
All right, very good.
So, you took a traindirectly from CDG to Avignon.
(04:06):
I'd like to hear about that experience.
What was it like?
Did it work out?
Not?
Tell me about that.
We arrived at the airport and Ihad budgeted three hours of time
from arrival to catching the train,just to be on the safe side, and
it took about an hour to get fromthe airplane to the train station.
So we've had plenty of paddingas far as time was concerned.
(04:30):
We took the OuiGo, which is the lower-costversion, and that was for two reasons,
one was the cost and one was also itjust matched up better with the time
that we wanted to leave the airport.
Now, we bought thesupplement to the ticket.
The prices are low.
You can pay the lower price andnot have a seat reservation.
(04:53):
But since we were travelingtogether, I paid the extra nine
euros for seat reservations.
Right.
And also, I wanted to make surewe were on the top level so we
got a better view, even thoughwe had a hard time staying awake.
Yes.
Now, the OuiGo does not have any cateringon board, so we did buy some snacks to
(05:17):
eat on the way, even though we'd had thechance to get a sandwich in the airport.
But it was smooth.
Yeah.
Finding the train was not difficult?
No, no, and you know, you needto show your ticket to get on
the platform, I didn't know thatbeforehand, but that seems to be
standard for the high-speed trains.
In the notes I mentioned that I wasa little worried about security of
(05:41):
the luggage, but the fact that onlyticketed passengers can get on and
they're going a long distance, it'snot like somebody getting on the RER
from the airport to Paris and they justhop on and then get off the next stop.
So I don't think people shouldhave to worry about luggage.
Yeah.
It's really not an issue.
On the RER, it is an issue because if youtake the RER from the airport into the
(06:04):
city and that train makes many stops alongthe way, you have several opportunities
for some scumbag to hop in the train,grab somebody's backpack or somebody's
suitcase, usually it's the backpacks thatthey go for, and run out of the train.
And the doors close and you're stuck.
(06:24):
This does not happen withthe express trains between
the airport and Gare du Nord.
So if you're going to do the RER,take the express one because it's
less likely to be a problem for you.
All right.
We had originally talked about rentinga car the entire time, but I definitely
(06:44):
was glad I made the choice of takingthe train just because it was so much
easier and cost-effective as well,especially when you could use OuiGo.
Right, so you used all threekinds of... You used OuiGo,
you used-
Inoui.
... Inoui, which is the more expensive, andthen you used something called Classic?
(07:05):
Yeah, OuiGo Classic.
OuiGo Classic, which we don't have inthe Southwest, so I've never taken that.
Yeah, that was in thelatter part of the trip.
And I can talk about that later.
Yeah, we can talk aboutthat a little later.
Okay.
So generally, I recommend people schedulethree hours between the time they
land and the time they take the train.
And it's true that if all goes well,if your plane isn't late, if the
(07:29):
delivery of your suitcase... But youwere traveling with carryon, right?
Yes.
Right.
So you didn't have to wait for delivery.
But you know, if there are nodelays at security, well, it's
passport control when you exit.
Some days passport control takes along time and sometimes it's really
quick, and there's no way to plan that.
Yeah.
I would still do three hours, eventhough I had a good experience this time.
(07:52):
I was very lucky, so...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it doesn't take much, you know,your plane's delayed and whatever,
and especially if you get the OuiGotickets, they're not refundable usually.
So, you know, you'd have to buy brandnew tickets, so yeah, take your time.
All right.
So then you made your way to Avignon.
Yeah.
So you get to the TGV station, and thenyou take the local train into Avignon.
(08:16):
Right.
And we got an Airbnb very close tothe train station, which was kind
of a thing that we did throughout,so we didn't have to walk very far.
And then we used the local trains duringour four days in Avignon to go to Arles.
So that was very seamless.
I bought the tickets the day of.
We took the local bus toSaint-Rémy-de-Provence.
(08:40):
Right, a regional bus.
Yeah.
And that was fine.
You always wonder about where you buytickets and how you deal with that.
And it was pretty straightforward,at least there in Avignon.
Yeah, typically the bus station,the regional bus station is
right by the train station.
Most cities I've ever, I don't rememberthis, I can't think of an exception except
(09:05):
for Paris because it's giant, and thereare fewer regional... But in the rest of
France, the bus station, the regional busstation is right by the train station.
And you just go there, buy aticket, get on, for the most
part, that's how it works.
So it's pretty seamless.
Yeah.
Those were the two publictransportations we used in Avignon.
(09:26):
And then we went, we rented a car at theTGV station, so we took the train out to
the TGV station and rented a car there.
One point that I was going to bringup was that I was looking for prices.
And prices change on rental cars,there's not one price all the time.
So I made a reservation fairly early,which I thought was a pretty good price.
(09:47):
And then I went back and lookedlater, which is dangerous because
you might see a lower price well...You might see a lower price and
think, "Oh, I should have waited."
It turns out though that most ofthe rental car operations will
let you cancel your reservation.
So if you see a goodprice, go ahead and do it.
(10:07):
But don't hesitate to look for alower price in the future and then
just cancel your old reservationand then make the new reservation.
So...
I would do it the opposite direction.
I would make the new reservationand cancel the old one.
Right?
Well, that's what,yeah, that's what I did.
I...
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, instead of waitingand thinking, "Oh, is it going
to go down? Is it going to godown?" Just make the reservation.
(10:30):
And then if it does go down, just cancelthe old one and make the new one, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, cars you can normally cancel.
I saved $100 just by doing that.
Very good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we stayed four days in an Airbnbjust outside of the Luberon and
just took trips, usually half-hourdrive to various villages.
(10:52):
The whole trip was kind ofbuilt around these, the Les
Plus Beaux Village de France.
Yes.
I looked for areas that had thehighest concentration of those
villages and Provence was one of them,and the Dordogne was another one.
So I kind of used those asplaces I wanted to get to.
And then I built the rest of thetrip kind of around that so I
(11:16):
could make the loop around France.
Right.
And yeah, the Aveyron also has a highconcentration, there's a few areas
like that that have quite a few.
Yeah.
And that's a good way to go.
And in middle of April to middle of May,that's where tourism starts up again.
So these villages are not going to becompletely dead, there's going to be some,
(11:39):
like the... the little pottery shop andthe restaurants are going to be open.
Whereas if you go in January, we'rerecording this in January, I can guarantee
you it's all going to be locked up.
Nothing is open the rest of the year.
We returned the car to the trainstation, the TGV train station, and
this was our longest day of travel,so we took the train from Avignon TGV
(12:04):
to Avignon Central, Avignon Centralto Nîmes, and then that was a regional
train, then we got a connection toan inter-city train to Carcassonne.
We got off there, stored our luggagenear the train station, and then we
walked to the chateau, or the town.
And looked around there and thenwent back and got our luggage and
(12:27):
then caught the regional trainfrom Carcassonne to Toulouse.
So yeah, I want to, you know,break that down a little bit.
So you arrived in Carcassonne andstored your luggage somewhere.
Was this lockers in the city, inthe train station or did you arrange
for, like, Nanny Bags or something?
(12:48):
Yeah, I don't remember the exact app.
I had two apps on my phonefor companies that show people
who will store your luggage.
Yeah.
And I found one that was closeto the train station and they're
typically about five euros per bag.
Yep.
And you have to tell them approximatelywhen, what time are you going to be there.
Which you know, because you'regoing to arrive by train, so...
(13:09):
Right.
I mean, they're usually places thatthis is one of their many businesses.
Exactly.
They do laundry.
They rent out Airbnbs and this iskind of a subset of their business.
Right.
They probably also, like, if you pick upa package, or if you return a package,
they will also do Amazon returns and theywill do other returns for other companies.
(13:31):
there are plenty of... Like, theone that does it near me is, it's
a little boutique thing that sellsjust local produce, locally made
things, some cheeses, some wines.
And they also do all sorts of otherthings on the side, so probably
keep your bags, things like that.
And it's great becauseit makes your life easy.
(13:53):
They probably don't do this every day,but it's very handy if you need that.
I'll put a link to Nanny Bag, it's theone that I've been recommending, they
seem to be, you know... And most ofthese places, they will sign up with
different ones, like their own Nanny Bagand their own whoever else does this.
You know, it's the same storejust going through different
aggregators is how it works.
(14:15):
Let's dial back a little bitto your time in the Luberon.
Okay.
Did you have a favorite thing youdid in Avignon or the Luberon area?
Was there something that stands out?
Well, another focus was to visit markets.
And so, the market inSaint-Rémy was very nice.
(14:37):
And just visiting the smallvillages, I just enjoy that.
And especially that time of yearbecause, as you said, there are things
happening but it's not super crowded.
Exactly.
It's not like the height of touristseason which would be probably
July is, especially in Provencebecause of the lavender fields,
(14:57):
that's when everybody wants to go.
So between middle of June tomiddle of July or late July
even, it's going to be mobbed.
Seriously mobbed.
Yeah.
So we saw probably six or sevenlittle villages, some that were on the
list, some that were not on the list.
But-
Sure.
It was fun.
Just find a car park and walkin, walk around, get a pastry.
(15:21):
Yeah.
Enjoy yourself.
Yeah.
So it's interesting.
You wrote in your notes that forthe cities where you took the car,
you picked ahead of time with GoogleMaps where you were going to park.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah.
I just wanted to... I didn't want toget to one of these villages and be
wandering around and getting into partsof the village I wasn't supposed to be.
(15:45):
So instead of saying I'm going togo to Roussillon, or I would look
specifically on the map and findwhere the car parks were and I
would go to the car park... Yes.
... directly.
Because each of the villages hasone or a number of car parks and
you're going to have to park there.
I'm not going to try to park anywhereelse except the designated spots.
(16:05):
Right.
And this is an excellent way to do this.
Just instead of setting your GPS to,"I'm going to Roussillon," for example,
I happen to know that in Roussillonthere is a parking area right close
to where the Sentier des Ocres starts,where everybody goes, and you pay what?
10 bucks or something for the day.
(16:26):
Nobody stays for the whole day.
You know, you have cars coming andgoing all day, because they walk
the Sentier and then head out.
There's not that muchyou can do in Roussillon.
But it's very good to set yourGPS to the parking spot, and
this is true also in big cities.
You know, don't say, "I'mgoing to Toulouse." No.
Say, "I'm going to my parking,wherever I'm going to park." Most
(16:49):
small villages that get a lot ofvisitors will be prepared so they
have some signs, but you never know.
Maybe the wind blew it off or somethingand you have no idea where to go and
then you find yourself on these, inthese crazy little medieval streets
with a car and you're like, "No,I don't wanna be here." You know?
So another thing is you mentioned thatyou used a parking application instead
(17:13):
of cash to pay for your parking.
How did that work out for you?
Yeah.
It worked out fine.
One nice thing was that you'd havethis line of people at the meter
trying to put their car informationin, and I would just get onto my phone.
I think it was PayByPhone was the app.
In that particular area, I think theyused one particular app.... and you
(17:34):
already had your car information in theapp, so you basically just said, "I'm
here," and, "How long do you want to stayfor?" You're not trying to figure out
what buttons to push and, people behindyou getting annoyed at you because you
can't read the thing correctly, and so...
Yep.
That can be a problem because if there's along line... And I've even made mistakes.
(17:56):
I used those horodateurs is what they'recalled, the machines to pay for parking.
And sometimes you, especially if, whenit comes to how long you're going to
stay, so you say, "Oh, I'm going to stayfor plus, plus, plus, plus, plus," and
you see the price go up and up and up.
And at a certain point, theprice quadruples because
you went an extra minute.
(18:16):
And you're like, "Oh, no,no, I don't want to do that."
And so you try and back up andyou can't and, oh, it's like
you have to start over again.
So the apps are good, but the problemwith the apps is that, different
areas will have different apps, right?
Did you, were you able touse yours in several towns?
Yes.
Ah, okay.
Yeah.
So that was good.
(18:37):
I didn't need to, but if I decidedI needed to stay an extra hour,
you could do that on your app.
You wouldn't have to go back to the-
To the car.
... parking lot car.
Yeah.
Excellent.
As long as you havereception, phone reception.
Right, you need data to do this.
Very good.
You mentioned also using your creditcard to fuel up and using the Wise card.
(19:01):
This is not somethingthat has come up a lot.
Yeah.
Are you familiar withthe Wise card at all?
I know what it is.
I don't have one, but I know what it is.
Okay.
But explain, please.
There's plenty of people who don't know.
Yeah, so the Wise card is like adebit card, and you put money in your
currency, so US dollars for me, andthen you can convert it to euros, so
(19:23):
it then has euros in your account.
It's more seamless to use in variousforeign countries, and also the exchange
rate is much better, or it's a goodexchange rate that you're guaranteed.
Now, what I had happen to me was Iwent to fuel up, and I don't let the
balance be too large on this debitcard, just from a safety standpoint.
(19:45):
And I was going to buy maybe30 euros of fuel, so I had
maybe 70 euros in my account.
I put the card in, and it won'taccept it because they hold, like,
150 euros when they do it, even thoughyou're only going to buy 30 euros.
Right, because they don't know howmuch you're going to buy, so they
(20:05):
just put a big hold on it, okay?
Yeah.
So you'll see that holdon your credit card.
It'll go away.
But temporarily, so... And then there wasone case, the same, I think it was the
same place, I was just trying to buy fuel.
One of my credit cards didn't work,so I tried the Wise card first, it
didn't have enough balance in it, thenI used a regular American credit card.
(20:25):
It didn't work.
I was starting to panic because Ihad a train to catch, and then I
tried the third, you know, the thirdoption, and it finally did work.
Yeah, yeah.
But you do see that, you do see thisthing come up on your credit card.
If you look at your balance andyou think, "Why did they charge
me 150 euros?" And they're not.
It's just a temporary thing, but itdoesn't just go away immediately.
(20:46):
Sometimes it takes a day to go away.
Right.
They put that hold on there.
So don't panic.
Yeah, we have the exact sameproblem with EV car chargers.
They also put a hold on, I don'tthink they ever put on 150 because
you couldn't possibly spend that muchwith an EV, but whatever it is, it's a
big hold, some people are always like,"Oh, what is this?" It just goes away.
(21:09):
They end up charging you whateveryou did use and not the whole thing.
Are you happy with yourWise card otherwise?
Yeah, yeah.
It does allow you to take two ATMwithdrawals per month, but that's
not huge, but then you don't reallyneed that much cash these days, so...
No, yeah.
... it's not that much of a restriction.
(21:29):
Okay, so now we're back to Carcassonne.
I've had somebody ask me once on anitinerary call, and so I'll relate this
so those who are listening know this,if you want to stop in Carcassonne for
however many hours to visit on yourway to Toulouse, for example, you just
buy a train ticket to Carcassonne.
You can't buy a ticketwith a stop in Carcassonne.
(21:52):
It doesn't work that way.
So just buy ticket to Carcassonne and buyanother ticket, Carcassonne to Toulouse
if that's where you're going to end up.
For some reason, this person hadn't,she had never thought of that.
And Carcassonne, the train stationis not right by where the medieval
citadel is, but it's not very far.
So you stored your luggage andthen you hoofed it to the citadel?
(22:15):
Yes, I did.
It was interesting because Ifollowed Google Maps, and Google
Maps led me onto this mud path.
It had been raining that day, andit was, yeah, it was an experience.
I told my wife, " Okay, Google Mapssays to go this way," and we go in
there, and all of a sudden, we've gota inch of mud on our shoes, and I said,
"Oh, I think this was a bad idea."
(22:36):
Yeah.
So don't always trust Google Maps.
If it seems like it's a badidea, probably is a bad idea.
Yeah.
Anyway, so yeah, we went to the Citadel.
Now, because we had all that travelbeforehand, we got there in the
afternoon, and I think it may havebeen a weekend, but it was very busy.
I think you said it was May 1st, actually.
(22:56):
It was May Day.
It was the day before May Day.
Okay, it was the day before May Day.
Oh, these are super busy weekends.
Yeah, I didn't have the best experience atCarcassonne just because it was so busy.
It just seemed... seemedvery touristy to me.
Well, it is if you go on one of thoselong weekends . It really is, because
(23:19):
you have visitors, but you also haveall the French families that have been
saying, "Oh, we'll go to Carcassonneone of these days," and they all go
because they have a long weekend,so why not go on their long weekend?
And it's very, very busy.
So yeah.
I would avoid Carcassonne, youknow, the weekend around May
1st, the weekend around May 8th.
(23:39):
Easter weekend, wouldalso be very, very busy.
The opposite thing is also true.
If you go in the winter, if you goin January or February, well, you're
better off going on the weekend, becausethat's when there will be a few people.
If you go on a Monday morning inFebruary, you'll be the only one there.
(23:59):
So it's just...
Yeah.
... you know, timing makes a big difference.
It does, yeah.
All right.
So, you enjoyed Carcassonneeven though it was very busy.
Yeah.
It's beautiful, but it was very busy.
Yeah.
And then you made your way toToulouse for two nights, right?
Two nights in Toulouse, yeah.
So, we took Elyse's VoiceMaptour, which was excellent.
(24:22):
Oh, good.
I think it's great.
You know, I'm always mentioning myown VoiceMap tours because, you know?
But I think Elyse does a great joband I wish she would do more of them.
Yeah, I do, Also.
It was very interestingbeing in Toulouse on May Day.
Yeah.
Why?
Well, we go out and there are all thesepolice officers with machine guns,
(24:43):
and we think, "What is going on here?"Are we going to be afraid for our
life?" So we went and did the VoiceMaptour, and it was a nasty day that day.
It was raining.
Ah.
So we got through most of thetour, and then we decided we were
going to go back to the apartment.
And we ran right into the march.
(25:03):
They were marching in downtown.
Yeah.
And so we're thinking, "Okay, how do weeven get across..." We had to go across
the parade route, and all the peoplewith their banners and... It was just
interesting to see their enthusiasmfor that particular... It's different
than Labor Day in the United States.
Very much so, yes.
(25:23):
So, Labor Day in the United States, you'regoing to have floats and fun and whatever.
In France, it's a daywhen most of the syndicat.
So it's a day when unions, calledsyndicat in French, call people to
demonstrate, and it's usually not...I mean, they always have security.
(25:44):
They always have people with machine gunsbecause that's how they do this in France.
But it's usually not violent.
I don't remember there beingany problems with the May 1st
parade in Toulouse last year.
it's usually fine, but it canbe a little bit startling.
Yeah, it was a little surprising at first.
(26:06):
But, you know, by the time wegot through the crowd and we were
relaxed, it wasn't scary or anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, it's just very different.
And in Paris, they have... So in Paris,if you go around The Louvre, not very far
from The Louvre on Rue de Rivoli you havethis big gold statue of Joan of Arc, and
(26:28):
that's where the extreme right wing peoplealways meet up to do their demonstration.
that has tended to be a bitmore tense than the others.
I would personally avoid that area.
Not that there's been bigproblems recently, but...
So how did you like Toulouse,not on May Day, so on May 2nd?
(26:50):
Were you there on May 2nd as well?
Well, we still saw a lot ofit, and actually, I was very
pleasantly surprised with Toulouse.
I thought it was beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, just so different than a lot ofthe other larger places that we went into.
We went to Bordeaux and Paris, of course,and they use stone as their building
(27:11):
material, and Toulouse with the brick.
Mm-hmm.
So yeah.
I would definitelyrecommend going to Toulouse.
Yeah.
There's very fun things to do.
I mean, I wouldn't spend two weeksor whatever, but for two or three
nights, there's plenty to do.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And then if you spend longer...... goto Carcassonne, go to Albi, go to Foix.
(27:34):
You can have very nice day trips.
We have a whole category on the websiteabout day trips you can do from Toulouse.
So, lots, plenty to do in here.
Then you went to, let's see,ah, you took a train to Cahors?
Yeah.
So that was interesting.
Originally we were going to takethe train, we were going to stay in
(27:56):
Carcassonne for two nights, and thenI decided to stay in Toulouse instead.
Good.
Good decision.
And the ultimate goal was to get tothe Dordogne, specifically Sarlat.
There's a train to Sarlat, but onceyou get there, you still need a car.
Yep.
So, we thought about getting acar in Bordeaux, but that's almost
(28:19):
a two-and-a-half-hour drive.
So then I was searching forsomewhere else to get a car.
And Brive?
Brive-la-Gaillarde, yes.
Yeah.
That's a big enough place thatthey did have rental cars.
So I needed to get there, but we weretrying to limit how much we did in a day,
so I was looking for somewhere betweenToulouse and Brive that we could stop.
(28:40):
And so, Cahors looked like a good place.
It is a nice place.
So we spent the night there, andI would recommend going there too.
It was very pretty.
The old part of the city there, youknow, there's some houses that had
been stuccoed, but it seems like alot of people are taking the stucco
off, and then you have the moreoriginal brick and timber construction.
(29:03):
And so it's very pretty.
Yeah, so you have half-timberedhouses that, in the '50s, they were
noticing that they were degradingquickly, and so they said, "Well,
let's just stucco over all of that."
And so you ended up with medievalhouses covered with stucco.
(29:24):
And now that they have better products toprotect the brick and the wood, they are,
you know, most people are removing thestucco and you see bare brick and timber
for the half-timbered kind of houses.
Which makes the place look very nice.
And Cahors has a lot ofmedieval kind of houses.
(29:47):
They're not all beautifully res-restored, but some are very, very nice,
and Le Pont Valentré is very nice.
If you like wine, there's plentyof wine to taste in Cahors.
But you guys don't drink, right?
Yeah.
Right.
And how is that, not drinking in France?
Well, we don't eat outa huge amount either.
(30:08):
We tend to bring stuff in fromthe supermarkets or the markets
and cook it in our Airbnb.
We do eat out lunch sometimes, soit's not like we're out all the
time and worrying about looking oddbecause we're not getting any wine.
Yeah.
Nobody cares, I mean, honestly, I wasout at lunch today with my husband,
(30:29):
cute little restaurant, in a smallvillage near us, full of people.
I think one table had wine on it.
Everybody else was drinkingwater, soda, you know.
French people drink less andless wine, especially at lunch,
now anymore, it's unusual.
Oh, there was some people drinking a beer.
Yeah, there was some guys drinking a beer.
(30:51):
I will drink beer.
Yeah, I'm like, "Oh, maybe I'lldrink a beer. No, I don't want
a beer." So I just... But yeah,so that, that happens too.
Yeah.
So we left the next morning to goto Brive and rent the car, which was
interesting because there wasn't arental counter in the train station.
They must have some arrangementwhere the rental agent brings
(31:15):
the information, leaves it atthe train information counter.
So we went there and the person thatwasn't a employee of the rental car
agency, and we got our key and thedocumentation, and then the car was parked
in the parking lot at the train station.
(31:36):
But that did require ussending our license and our
passport to the rental agency.
Ahead of time.
Yeah.
They sent me a WhatsApp message saying,"Can you provide this information for
us?" Which, again, I didn't expect that.
But it worked out fine.
(31:56):
Took pictures of our documents andtold them when we were going to be
there and rented the car and broughtit back and handed it back in.
So it worked.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, Brive-la-Gaillarde isnot a touristy place at all.
So, it might have been a betteridea to rent from Cahors, because
Cahors gets more visitors.
(32:17):
But I have never tried to rent acar in either town, so I don't know.
If I had advised you, I would havetold you to rent a car in Toulouse
and drop it off in Bordeaux probably.
That would have been my advice, becauseyou save yourself a lot of... There's
a lot more choice for car rentals inbig cities like Bordeaux and Toulouse.
Yeah, there was only one particular brand.
(32:40):
There weren't more than one.
And one thing that you ran into aswell is that French supermarkets
rent cars and vans, but these arefor people who live in France.
I have never heard of anybody whodoesn't have a French address, a French
electrical bill, or water bill, orsomething proof of residency, to be
(33:01):
able to rent a vehicle from Leclerc, orAuchan, or Carrefour, or places like that.
But French people, Frenchresidents can rent.
I mean, several times I'verented moving vans from them.
If you're moving a big, big pieceof furniture, it's like the U-Haul,
you know, like that sort of thing.
Except that it's alwaysattached to a big grocery store.
(33:24):
And they also have smaller cars, butI don't think they would rent them to
people who were not residents in France.
For people who are not residents, you haveto go through Hertz, or Sixt, or Avis, or
you know, one of the big ones like that.
And Sixt is quite big in France.
I don't... I'm not sure if theyare very big in the US, but...
(33:46):
They are not.
I did not use them just becauseI wasn't familiar with them.
I used Hertz and Avis.
Right.
Right.
But that's fine.
So, then you spent some...A few days in the Dordogne.
Yeah.
So it was a pleasant drive fromthe train station to Sarlat.
And we specifically arranged thatwe'd be there on a Saturday, which
(34:08):
is big market day, and our Airbnbwas right along the main thoroughfare
in the old part of the city.
That was nice, just walking out thedoor, wandering through the market,
buying some foie gras and somebaguettes and some goat cheese, and
taking it back and having it for lunch.
Yep.
And then we did a couple of day trips to,well, actually from the train station,
(34:33):
rather than going straight to the Airbnb,which we couldn't get into, we visited
Rocamadour and Martel, which are bothon that list of most beautiful villages.
Yeah.
And then one of the other days wewent to Domme and La Roque Gajac?
And then another day we wentto the Chateau Millandes.
(34:55):
Milland?
Yeah.
Chateau de Millande with Josephine Baker.
Right.
And they also have a raptorshow, which was really-
Yeah.
I love the bird show.
Yeah, the bird show is great.
Yeah, the bird show.
It's great.
And the Chateau Beynac?
Yes, the Chateau de Beynac.
Beautiful.
Yeah, I love that.
I like medieval history.
So yeah, we spent four days in Sarlatand then returned the car and took
(35:20):
the regional train into Bordeaux.
So you returned the car in Brive,same place you picked it up?
Yep.
Yes, same place.
Yep.
And then took the regional trainto Bordeaux, which is easy-peasy.
Yep.
Got an Airbnb by the train stationagain, and then used the trams to
get into the main part of the city.
(35:42):
We did a walking tour, audiowalking tour there as well.
Was it a VoiceMap or somebody else?
It was a VoiceMap, but it wasn't-
One of us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why don't...?
You need to do a one for Bordeaux.
Yeah.
Was it okay, though?
Was it interesting?
It was okay, but it wasn'tas good as you and Elyse.
Yeah.
We put in a lot of time to ourVoiceMap tours and other people, they
(36:04):
just, "Mm, let's just do something."
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Bordeaux was very differentthan Toulouse, but still nice.
Yes.
Very nice.
Yeah.
Bordeaux is a beautiful town.
It's just, the feeling isvery different, you know?
It's just not... It had moreEnglish for a long time.
(36:26):
We didn't have that in Toulouse.
Yeah.
I guess it was also a lot of theold parts were torn down and then
kind of rebuilt in this style.
So that was good.
We did go to the wine museumbecause we don't like wine, but...
Right.
That's a good reason not to go.
I mean, honestly.
If you don't like wine, why?
(36:47):
Yeah.
We had thought of originally skippingBordeaux and just going directly to Tours.
But I thought, ah, it'd be niceto see something different.
And there was... it wasn't veryeasy to get, it was easier to
go to Bordeaux, spend the night.
Again, make it more relaxing.
I didn't want to have asix-hour day of changing trains.
(37:07):
So that was...
Yes, yes.
Brive to Tours would be complicated.
Yeah.
I'm sure you can do it if you arebent on not having a good day.
Yeah.
Yeah, much easier to go toBordeaux and then directly.
Yeah.
And then we took the, this is ourINOUI trip, and we decided to go
(37:27):
first class because it wasn't thatmuch more expensive than second
class when we bought the tickets.
So we splurged.
So is now a good time to tellme the differences between
all these types of trains?
Is it worth the extramoney, or we are same?
I mean, if I had the option of savingmoney, I would take advantage of it.
(37:48):
But that's just me.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not like... You might... Somepeople might think, "Oh, I don't want to
ride with the riffraff in the lower cost."
Is it really riffraff, though,or was it just regular people?
No, it's not.
Yeah, no.
It's just regular people.
I would have no problem doing that.
It was fun going in first class, I mean,if it's not that much more expensive.
(38:10):
But there are cases where theOuiGo can be significantly cheaper.
And it's not really that muchdifferent from my perspective.
If you travel light and you'reokay bringing your own drinks and
food, then OuiGo is just fine.
Now, if you have more suitcases,bigger... you know, if you have a
big suitcase, whatever, it's betterto be in first class because you
(38:34):
have more room and things like that.
But you know, it...
Yeah.
There are good options.
Exactly, it's good to have options.
France has a great train system.
Yeah.
So the last thing.
We've been talking a long time, sowe need to speed it up, but, you had
some adventures in the Loire Valley.
You did Loire Valley without a car?
Yeah.
We did a whole episode aboutthat, it was Episode 432.
(38:57):
How did that work out for you?
From Tours, you went toAmboise, which is easy.
Yeah, that was easy.
And you could see two chateaus there,we just went to the one, the one
associated with Leonardo da Vinci.
Yeah, Clos Lucé.
Yeah.
We went to Langeais?
Langeais yeah.
That was good.
(39:17):
The trains are less frequent, soyou have to be patient in terms
of it's not like you can go andget back exactly when you want to.
You may have to wait a little bit.
Yeah.
And then we had our trip toChenonceau, which, again, it's
not as regular as Amboise.
And the weekend we were in thatarea, in the Loire Valley, it
(39:40):
was the Ascension Day/whateverthe other holiday was this year.
Victory in Euro- I don't know.
It... Was it Victory in Europe?
Yeah.
It was
May 8th and... Yeah, itwas around May 8th, yep.
It's a long weekend.
So I bought tickets for Chenonceau,and I thought, "Oh, I'll just
buy the train tickets the daybefore," and I went to buy them.
(40:01):
Hmm, not that week.
Not that week.
Nope.
So it was sold out even thoughit was a regional train.
And so what we ended up doing wasfinding a train to the village just
before Chenonceau, and having to walkfive miles, to get to Chenonceau.
We'd already committed to buying thetickets, and so we toughed it out.
(40:24):
Yeah, yeah.
But the word to the wise isdon't always assume that the
regional train will have room.
Those weekends are very, very busy.
I've said this a million times, but ifit's Easter, May 1st, May 8th, watch out.
All the French people are out,and they will book everything.
(40:44):
Like, everything.
Right.
So it worked out okay, but itcould have been... I was panicking
there for a little while.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, what did you learnabout France on this trip?
Overall, was it a good experience?
Tell me more.
Yeah.
My wife was a little hesitant at first.
Americans think the Frenchdon't like Americans.
And so my wife was hesitant aboutthe trip from that perspective.
(41:09):
But we've taken trips to manyother countries, so this was
not our first time traveling.
So we have experience around theworld, and my wife said this was
the best trip that we've been on.
So it was a combination of the food,even though we didn't eat out a lot,
just the food in general that we'vebought in markets, the pastries, the
(41:31):
friendliness of the people, especiallygoing into the shop, making sure you
say, "Bonjour," and, you know, that goesa long way, and people are very nice.
So as a consequence, we arecoming back again this year.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
So we're going to spendanother three weeks.
(41:51):
So, obviously we had a greattime, and we're going to spend
a lot of the time down in yourdirection in Albi and in Narbonne.
Oh, nice.
Yeah
Nice.
There's an episode coming aboutBéziers that you want to hear,
that no one has listened to.
Okay.
Yeah.
We planned on going there.
Yeah.
So that'd be great.
Yeah.
(42:11):
Wonderful.
And you don't even speak very goodFr- I mean, you can pronounce French,
so you probably speak a little bit?
Yeah.
I've used Duolingo and I'm usingBabbel this time to try to learn it.
I can read it well.
I can speak it okay.
I have the hardest timeunderstanding people speaking.
(42:31):
Right.
Right.
But even if you're not very good atFrench, people are friendly to you, right?
I mean, it's...
Oh yeah, yeah.
We only had a few cases wherethey couldn't speak some English.
But even then, I knew enoughFrench that I could communicate.
I could say, "Je parle un peufrançais," you know, so...
Perfect.
(42:51):
Very good.
Well, Steven, thank you so muchfor talking to me about your trip.
You shared some very interestingstuff, a lot of warning to people
to do this, do that, don't do that.
So that's very helpfulfor future travelers.
Thank you so much and I wish youanother wonderful trip in France.
Okay.
Thank you.
Merci beaucoup.
(43:12):
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(43:32):
A special shout-out this week tomy new Join Us in France champions,
Jude and Liz G. And thank you,Sheree Noel, for updating your
pledge up to Groupie du Podcast.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I
would love to have you pledge more soyou can have access to more rewards.
(43:56):
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
I'm recording ahead this week, so I don'thave any new VoiceMap reviews to share.
But if you're curious about whatlisteners think of my VoiceMap tours,
(44:19):
head over to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
That stands for VoiceMap reviews.
You'll find lots of feedback fromfellow travelers who've walked the
streets of Paris with me in their ear.
Maybe your review willbe the next one I read.
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
(44:40):
It's best for me as well, because I getto keep more of what you pay instead
of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it'sa manual process, so don't expect it
to be instant like it would be if youwere buying directly from the app.
But most of you listening to me rightnow plan their trips at least a few
days, weeks, or months in advance,so you probably have plenty of time.
(45:04):
To use your tour code, open VoiceMap,tap on tour codes at the bottom right,
enter the code, and download the tour.
You own it forever, even if youchange phones, just log into your
VoiceMap account to access it again.
The tours work without data becausethe audio images and maps are
downloaded to your phone, and GPS worksanywhere, even without cell service.
(45:28):
Best of all, you can listen in virtualplayback from anywhere in the world.
Perfect if Paris is notin your immediate plans.
So yes, take me in yourpocket with VoiceMap.
If you're planning a trip to Franceand want expert help, you can hire
me as your itinerary consultant.
It's busy season, so book earlyat joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(45:51):
Usually, I have openings within amonth, but right now it's more like
two or three months out, so don't wait.
Let's talk about something that comes upoften in France and especially in Paris.
Are Parisians ready togive up cars in the city?
This debate gets a lot of attention,and I want to give you the latest on
what's happening and how it ties intoFrance's push towards greener transport.
(46:16):
So back in March 2024, Parisianswere asked a pretty direct question
during a public consultation.
The city wanted to know, are you infavor of turning 500 more streets
into green pedestrian-friendly zonesacross all neighborhoods of Paris?
(46:36):
And guess what?
66% of the people who voted said yes.
But here's the thing.
The voter turnout was very low,less than 4% of registered voters
actually went to the polls.
Still, the city is moving ahead, andthis will mean that about 100,000
parking spots will be removed from Paris.
(46:59):
That's a big shift.
This isn't just about onevote in Paris, though.
Nationwide, things are changing too.
The ADEME, that's France'sAgency for Ecological Transition,
published a study in September 2024.
Now, ADEME, I should say, is thegovernment agency that works on all
(47:21):
things related to sustainability, fromenergy efficiency to clean transport.
They're also a key player in theelectrification of transport in France.
They help fund and guide projects forelectric vehicles, charging stations,
and more eco-friendly urban planning.
Anyway, their study asked peoplein French cities with more than
(47:43):
100,000 residents what they thinkabout sustainable transport measures,
and the results were very telling.
77% of people support more pedestrianzones, 65% are in favor of speed
limits of 30 kilometers per hour,unless you're behind the wheel,
and then that's awfully slow.
(48:05):
And a huge 85% want more bike lanes.
That shows a strong shift in publicopinion toward more sustainable mobility.
People are more willing to acceptchanges that reduce pollution and noise.
Of course, not everyone agrees.
Some elected officials and drivers'rights groups still push back
(48:26):
against these changes, worriedabout access and convenience.
But overall, it's clear that more andmore people in France, not just Parisians,
are open to rethinking how we use carsin cities and how we can move toward a
cleaner, quieter, and greener future.
If you have noticed these changesin your travels in France or have
(48:47):
thoughts about car-free city life,I'd love to hear from you, perhaps
on Facebook, or perhaps as a patron.
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan,
who produced the transcripts.
And get ready for an incredible journeyon our next episode of Join Us in France.
I'll be chatting with RowenaSjovall as she takes us through
(49:09):
her adventurous hike along theChemin du Puy and the Célé Valley.
These are all on the Camino, right?
She shares memorable encounters,tackling rain-soaked trails,
and breathtaking landscapes.
You won't want to missher captivating story.
We also talk about planning, perseverance,and the joy of exploring France on foot.
(49:32):
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time, so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir!
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(49:53):
no derivatives license.
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