August 24, 2021 • 33 mins
On embracing rejection and knowing when to pivot.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Let me just ask this question. Don't many have shipped
to carry too? So like what's in my purse? Sometimes
it's a bar, it's an EpiPen, always an EpiPen. What's
the difference between a messenger bag because you said he
used to carry a messenger bag like one of those
sort of like, and a brief isn't a briefcase like
a men's purse. So I don't And then I understand
that there are many gay men that where you know,
(00:34):
heels and purses and great, um, I don't know that
many straight men. Why is it really just a female thing?
I don't men need to carry their ship without the
carrying iPad or like paperwork. So a backpack is okay,
a briefcase is okay, a messenger bag is okay. But
like a cross body merce, I think I'm calling it
(00:58):
is that wrong? People? You said not online data. Now
everybody only online date. So one day men will just
be wearing purses. Straight men will be wearing purses because
there's one guy just has to wear a purse and
then get to care of their ship with them like
we do. I don't know. I feel that I like
to have I like my person sitting on my bed
waiting for where we're gonna waiting. Glasses. That's why men
wear like blazers on planes, a lot of pockets. That
(01:20):
sounds like a good way to lose everything you own. Okay,
you might have a wallet, you have glasses in another pocket,
chaps to get another pocket, phone in another pocket. What
if you're a check bookind of guy. What if you
have an allergy, you need your eppypen. So like, I
don't know, I think we should bring male purses back
or it's in. I don't see a problem with men
maile purses. I think they have to be designed properly
(01:40):
for heterosexual men and designed properly for gay men. By
the way, many gay men don't want to be wearing
like blinged out purses or little goat up purses. I mean,
I just think it's just a functional item. Take it easy, everybody.
It's okay to have a male purse, and no problem
with that at all. Listen, if a man was wearing
a cross body bag on a first date, they'll I
might judge. So maybe I'm a hypocrite. I'm not sure.
(02:04):
Let's think about this one. Tell me if you think
there's such an ocean between a cross body bag for
a man and a messenger bag and a backpack in
a briefcase or a brief bag. It's a brief bag.
It's a small bag for everything you need to know.
It's called a brief bag. Marketing it here right now,
steal it ticket, Let's do it. My next guest is
(02:32):
Kathy Ireland, who was a model for decades then started
her brand marketing company, Kathy Ireland Worldwide, where she is
the CEO. She founded her company and has since grown
it into a multi billion dollar international enterprise. We talked
today about how her parents prepared her to be an
entrepreneur as she went from model to mogul, and what
(02:55):
it takes to be successful in business and in relationships.
I hope you enjoy the conversation. Well, thank you for
doing this. I don't know how much you know about
this podcast, but this podcast is basically the filter is
(03:15):
people who have built a brand, started from the bottom
and now they're here. So I want to just get
a sense of, um, your upbringing. I read a little
bit about you. It seems like, um, you always were
somebody who liked to work, and you seem to have
a structure as a child, Like, so is that because
your parents were disciplinarians or you came from a very
(03:36):
um traditional quote unquote normal background, or what was that? Like?
I'm blessed to have amazing parents. My mom and dad
raised my two sisters and me to not have limits.
And you know, as a little girl, I remember my
dad saying the prayers at dinner, you know, thank you
(03:58):
God for making me the richest man in world. And
I grew up thinking we were materially wealthy, um, which
we were not. We never went without yet Dad was
speaking about, you know, just priceless joys of our family.
So my dad worked in labor relations. He worked with
a farm workers growing up in Santa Barbara. He worked
(04:20):
with says Or Chavez and is a little girl driving
past Oxnarden camerio. He'd always point out like, look, girls, look,
and he would point out people who were working in
the fields who had no place to relieve themselves with dignity.
He would point out people bending over doing labor that
(04:44):
would bring food to our tables with these short hose
because they were less expensive. How people are treated as
always been at the forefront of my mind. My mom
is my hero. I mean everything from babysitting business, house
keeping business. Mom would make in the seventies, she made
(05:05):
halter dresses that she'd sell at art fares on the beach,
and as like a six seven year old, I would
make jewelry and handbags that would coordinate with mom's design.
So that entrepreneurial spirit, the creativity from my mom, how
people are treated from my dad definitely impacts everything that
we do. And we started our brand from my kitchen table.
(05:28):
I was an aging pregnant model. We started with a
single pair of socks, and we started by conducting surprise
factory inspections because you'll learn a lot when you show
up unexpectedly. And as our company has grown, that's something
that we continue today and it's critical to our work.
Sorry you said we, so who's we started? We? So
(05:51):
that's our team. And during all the years that I modeled,
I was trying and failing at businesses. The modeling career
would not have gone on as long as it did
had one of those earlier ventures been successful. UH learned
a lot of powerful lessons along the way, and so
I was investing in people. UH somebody with a great
(06:13):
I who would become our worldwide, genius creative director, somebody
who understood marketing, someone who would be our vision strategist.
This wonderful team and we've got our millennial team, our
gen z team. It's it's really become family. Well, I
want to understand the how we got here. So you, um,
(06:38):
were discovered as a young girl by elite modeling agency
to just become a model. Just it was it was
something that you're gonna do on the side that you
thought it might be an interesting opportunity. Um, how did
that happen? At? What age was that? So, Bethany, I
was sixteen and I was a beach rat. I mean,
I was just my nose was always peeling, my hair
was always fried. This Glenda right, and this was in
(07:01):
Santa Barbara. This okay, got it? Yeah, So it's been
there since I was three years old and I went
to I went to the school and I was not
model material yet. This was at a time when like
the look of the moment was changing and so suddenly, um,
one eyebrow was okay, it was like good, So that
(07:23):
was great. So as Scout came to the class one
day asked if I'd like to go to New York
for the summer, and I said, no, thank you. Um,
I just it just didn't seem like something that that
that I would want to do. And did you think
you were pretty? Like did you think I'm sure you
didn't think about that, but did you think you were pretty? No? No, Um,
(07:45):
I didn't. Um, I mean I really didn't. That had
never been a part of my life. And recognizing that
it was really eye opening too because they were beautiful
um girls that were not given that opportunity. And so
I recognized, you know what, what is beauty? You know,
we're we're all beautiful um in different ways. But what
(08:08):
the world says? I mean, who really cares? It's just
very fickle. And uh, it gave me a good a
good understanding of that, something like the Emperor's New Clothes.
Yet that the agency call, they said, we will advance
to the money to spend the summer in New York.
If you don't like it, you can go home. And
so I just figured, you know what, it's an opportunity
(08:30):
to or earn some money to either go to college
or start a business. Wow, so you were thinking very early,
So like I didn't even think about the entrepreneurial world
until my late thirties, so you really had it instilled
in you early. So how many years did you model?
I mean about fifteen years something like that, So fifteen years.
But at the same time, you have these other ideas
(08:52):
and you're already aware that you're an entrepreneur. You just
had corty ideas you wanted to execute our inside you
know that you're a business person. It was at my
every spare moment um, you know, meeting with scientists and um,
different experts in different fields to try to learn and grow.
What did you want your business to be? What was
(09:12):
your goal? I wish I could x, not model, but this,
oh well, I mean as a as a child, so
many things. I grew up watching Jacques Cousteau. I wanted
in Scoba diving. I wanted to be an underwater explore
whatever that looked like. Didn't know how I'd earned money
doing that. UM. I wanted to uh to own things
(09:33):
and and do good with them. I wanted to build things, UM,
be creative. It was always there. I thought about being
a teacher. That was so appealing to me. And having
the opportunity to do those passions in different forms has
has been amazing. Well, that's interesting that you talk about that,
because people now, young people want to get on the
(09:57):
road and rush. They want to you know, you know,
I go to college or the second they finished college,
you know exactly what they're doing. And I didn't really
understand what I was or what I was doing, and
sometimes I still don't, and so my late thirties, So
what you're describing is a similarity to me, where I
always had different jobs, different ideas, did different things, took
the road where it took me thought I wanted to
(10:17):
be certain things at at at a certain time, whether
it was an actress or a comedian, or a host
or a natural food chef for a baker. But I
feel that that's valuable and people shouldn't be pigeonholing themselves
and rushing to know. It's about the journey. So you're
describing the journey because through that journey, and I'm sure
that all the twenty different ideas and businesses and jobs
(10:39):
you had, including modeling help you now in this bigger
empire that you have. You're so calling back I'm sure
to so many of those different things, and even though
you didn't think that at the time, they mattered in
the future. You're probably pulling things from them now, is that?
Would that be accurate? You are so perceptive, Bethany. I
mean absolutely, And uh, you're much younger than I am.
(11:01):
When I was young, I didn't go to college. It
wasn't my path. My formal education ended when I barely
finished high school. Uh. But I continue to learn and
be a student and believe in in great education in
many different forms. When I was young, kids would graduate
from college and find a job. Today, young people need
(11:25):
to invent one and not just one, but like seven, eight, nine,
ten in their lifetime. And so, yes, what you're saying,
all of those experiences helped me learn how to pivot
at a very young age. That was powerful. The modeling
was a wonderful gift, in the gift of rejection. I
(11:47):
didn't appreciate it in the oh my goodness, going door
to door, banging on doors, selling our socks, and people
laughing in my face, uh, saying what a stupid idea was,
and and other things that I won't say, um, slamming
doers in our face. But that didn't stop me. It
(12:09):
didn't destroy me. No, meant well, at least we're talking.
I'll come back tomorrow, you know, maybe your circumstances will
have changed, maybe you'll no longer be the person empower
the decision maker, maybe it will be in a better mood.
And I do encourage people, Um, if you're getting a rejection,
(12:29):
please don't let that stop you. Don't let if you
believe in what you're doing, if you've got passion for it,
don't let someone else's opinion of you or your circumstances
define or destroy you. And calendar to come back six
months later. If you get to know, I mean, I
was probably a little stalky. I'd come back the next day,
(12:51):
So maybe wait six months, that might be better advice.
So when you go into an airport or a public place,
not in Santa Barb because I'm sure everybody knows you're there,
do people think of you as Do people walk up
(13:12):
to you and say, oh, your Caffee Ireland the model,
or do they think that you're Caffee Ireland the mogul.
The reason I asked that is because sometimes people think
I'm for reality TV, and then other people, oh, that's
the skinny girl. And you've had a much longer career
in both, So I wonder what you are to people,
you know, Bethany. Um, it's that's such an interesting question.
And for so many years we intentionally built our brand
(13:36):
beneath the radar, and Forbes out at us. Um they
you know, they said, well, we've been clocking you. We're
going to do a story with or without your participation.
And I, you know, I love the people at Forbes,
and I always appreciate having, especially coming from that shut
up imposed background, having my voice heard, especially when it
comes to our brand, which I'm so passionate about. And
(14:00):
as I get older and maturity, I recognize what a
gift it is to break through my shy and selfish
shell of quietness to connect with other people. As I
get older, I recognize it's a gift to be exposed
to needs that are so much bigger than me and
(14:21):
opportunities that are so much bigger. And answer to your question, Uh,
it's wonderful that so often I can go out and
nobody knows who I am. They recognize the brand, but
maybe not me so much. Younger people don't necessarily know
me for the modeling career at all. It's um, hey,
(14:44):
I grew up sleeping in your princess Bouquet bedroom and
in your beautiful bed and I'm getting married now and
I want you to you know, I want to use
one of your estates for my wedding. You know, I
want you your team to those my gown, my jewelry,
all of that. Or it's you know, hey, I bought
this rug. Do you have a lamp? That? What you know?
(15:06):
What do you recommend? What should I get? It's it's
it's more of the business, is what I would say.
It's where you are now as an involved woman. I
asked that because I didn't realize that we had parallels.
Like I wouldn't have thought of it this way, but
people might not take a model or reality television stars seriously.
And I like the street cred that a place like
(15:27):
Forbes gives you. It makes me feel I think it's
important for women, even though you're under the radar. I
think it's important for you to be over the radar,
because for women to think that you could come from
being what everyone would think of as oh, just shut
up and smile, and you know, models are dumb and
that kind of thing. To be you know, known respected,
to have street cred, I mean, I think that is
valid and valuable. You have it Thank you, Bethany, thank
(15:52):
you and and too and you're you're such a powerful
example of this, Bethany, of not having limits. I mean,
nothing ever stops and we just keep growing. I mean
our our company from him to insurance Home, I mean
office lighting, sleepware, intimates next year, sportswear, and the launch
of our men's brand My six, which means got your
(16:13):
back with that, Tommy Maherry Uh, he's a marine. I mean,
if you think of Berkshire Hathaway Um, Warren Buffett is
someone I met through IRV Blumpkin and at Nebraska Furniture
Mart n f M, and just an incredible business leader,
and he introduced us to Warren Buffett. But what he's
(16:36):
built with Berkshire Hathaway, it's extremely inspiring. And I would
say our company can be defined as a mini conglomerate
inspired by Berkshire Hathaway, yet at a much, much, much
smaller valuation. We started with socks and we've sold over
(16:57):
a billion pairs of socks um and we keep going.
We're opening Kathy Ireland recovery centers throughout the country, and
our first one opens in Laconia, New Hampshire this fall.
Alcohol and drug abuse costs our country billions of dollars.
It destroys family, steals lives, and our passion with our
(17:17):
partners at Ascension is to break that cycle UM regardless
of your ability to pay for treatment. And you know,
when you're in that spiral, you either break down or
you break through. And UH for for me personally, after
faith and family, the work is a major priority because
it makes our nonprofit commitments grow. And I have the
(17:41):
privilege is serving as International Chair of the National Pediatric
Foundation UM, also serving on the board of the nfl
P I, the w n b a p A Board
of Advocates UM, the Advisory board for the Madison Program
at Princeton University, and in the abassador for the Elizabeth
(18:01):
Taylor Aids Foundation. UH our vision of our company that
encompasses all that we do, all the different sectors, our teach,
inspire and power make our world better. If potential partner
doesn't meet that criteria, we're not a good fit. And
how that looks is we UH. We have ten initiatives
(18:25):
that we require partners to participate in, and these are
nonprofit ways in which they can UM be involved in
and it involves everything from fighting hunger supporting education, fighting disease,
fighting human trafficking, and supporting our military veterans. And so
(18:48):
in order to work with us, that's the first test.
We we just got to see what will you do.
We don't require a monetary amount, it can be volunteer days,
but it's got to be profound and make a difference
in that way. In success, we know that we are
really honoring that vision and it gets our team excited.
Sometimes people say, well, why do you still do this
(19:08):
after all these years? What what keeps you going? And
my answer is my goodness. We have a lot of
work ahead of us in so many ways where a
baby brand there, there's so much to be done, and
that you must have an incredible sense of other people, infrastructure,
managing from the beginning to be able to do this.
(19:31):
You're I don't, I don't think you're doing this yourself.
But still there has to be mean your skin looks good,
you look fresh, you look relaxed. There has to be
a way that you are handling this where you still
have some sort of a life. You have three kids,
you have it seems to be a successful marriage, which
we'll get into. How the hell do you manage this?
And and and I want off the ride half the time,
and I want to give up half of it so
(19:53):
somebody could come in and take it over. So what
what is that about? It's you know what, Bethany. A
lot of times there are hard days, and brand building
is you know, it is hard work. I've been accused
of being a control freak. I prefer to think of
it as passionate. I am deeply passionate. Not just what
we do, but how we do it. It's got to
(20:14):
be done well. Um. I'm getting much better at delegating
work with an incredible team, but it it is important
that what we do that that we can just protect
the integrity of it. That is important. And the how
it's you know, I people talk about balance and some
(20:35):
days I don't have it at all. Um, some days
I am a mess. What is key for me to
just to just to go through each and every day
is that I honor my priorities and for me, it's
my faith, and then it's my family, and then it's
(20:56):
the work. And the minute those orders are in the
minute those values are out of order, okay, my coping
skills are out the window, and I'm not effective at anything,
and so I must and know. I think for women
it can be a hard thing. I was forty before
I learned that no was a complete sentence. Many people
(21:16):
pull at you and you don't see it happening. And
it's like any mom who has a couple of kids
and doesn't have a business understands this. It's a slippery
slope they're pulling and if they want you here. And
boundaries are so important I have found and even more
really sticking to the boundaries, like certain things you just
find that, oh they're coming over there, they're gonna do
this tomorrow. I set this up for you, and I
keep saying yes, and then I'm no, bos stop stop,
(21:39):
Like I'm not an animal. You're sitting behind a desk.
I got either the talent, be the face, to be
the thing. So saying no, it's a discipline. What about
your quote unquote, I talk about successful relationships along have
(22:00):
you been married thirty three years in August? Okay, so
no matter what the behind the scenes dynamics, that would
be defined as a successful relationship. And uh, your husband
said doctor, emergency room doctor and commercial fisherman. Okay, so
he's you know, by everyone's standards, a successful man too,
by the superficial definition of successful, he has a successful career.
(22:23):
So how you know I often talk about two different
people who are very successful in relationship with other successful people,
and I have heard everything from I don't work on
my partner, I work on myself. Let they work on themselves. Um,
we give each other a long leash. We have our
own lives, but come together. So you know, we check
(22:45):
in with each other once a day. And then I'm
collecting all of this wisdom. So what are the things
that you have found to be your threads that have
contributed to what you've done right and wrong? Uh? You know,
every marriage is, Um, it takes work. It takes a
lot of work and good work. Did it always take
a lot of work, even in the beginning, Yeah, yeah,
(23:06):
it's it's it's always been more. I'd say more work
in the beginning, a lot more work in the beginning.
And you know, hopefully as we grow older, we keep learning.
And I never want to make the same mistakes twice.
What's been key in our marriage is that I don't
look at it as a contract. It's a covenant with God.
And so, uh, there are days when we might not
(23:30):
feel like Um, you know, honoring our our marriage with
each other. There are days when we might make each
other really angry or or whatever. It's like, Okay, I
made a promise to God, do so. Um. That relationship
helps me to see my husband and others, you know,
other relationships too through his eyes with value. And it's like, okay,
(23:54):
how how am I going to speak to this person? Um,
I'm not just gonna just earned out, you know, I'm
gonna be quick to think, slow to speak, and slow
to become angry. Don't let the sun go down on
your anger. I mean, those are those are key. I
like that. And you know what I like? Um, I
mean I respect Uh, I respect your faith a lot.
(24:17):
Like it's a dedication, it's a discipline, and it's it's
just it's amazing. I mean, you and Maria Shriver are
the two people who really walk that walk. Um, and
I like UM. I think it's comforting to people to
hear that not only business, but relationships both. It's really
not about bells and whistles and light. I always say,
(24:39):
you can make a life. You can create a lifestyle
out of a life. You can't create a life out
of a lifestyle. So people are always worried about what
everybody else thinks. Lifestyle and people are worried about Instagram
selfies and filters, and like you're gonna create a whole
business from either being on TV or being social media famous,
which is like the low hanging brute. That's sort of
just like all the shiny objects. But it's comforting. It's
(25:00):
not so sexy, but it's comforting to to hear and
know that business and relationships are old school hard work. Period.
Doesn't matter if it's eighteen hundred or if it's one.
It's the same story. Yeah, you know, Bethany, I have
not figured out any way around that. It's You're absolutely right,
it's it's hard work. It's good work. Same thing with
your weight, your body, your health. Yeah yeah, good for
(25:23):
that's good. I like, I think that's comforting because everybody
gets the keys to that. Everybody gets a successful relationship.
Everybody could be successful, have a successful business. There's no shortcut.
Oh and and Bethany, is something you said that is
so relevant to I mean, I have had really famous
people come to me and tell me that, you know,
they're they're trying to build a brand, but it's like
(25:44):
really hard work and it there's nothing wrong with the
celebrity endorsement if that's what you want. But as far
as is building a brand, I mean that takes a
lot more than an autograph, photo or um, you know,
and that's why celebrities are brands. But they don't have brands,
and that I mean literally I can think of five
that do. It's not that it's not easy to build
(26:07):
a brand. To be a brand is a different story
to be really famous. And like you said, it's not
your name on something or take a picture. It's very
different than building a brand with your name or without
your name, just any brand. So that's any brandeah. I
mean the average lifespan of a brand is five years
and I didn't know that. That makes me happy. I
can't believe we've made it over a decade. Wow, Well, Bethany,
(26:27):
you're you are amazing. I mean, what you've built is incredible,
and you're inspiring and empowering so many people. I'm so
I mean, I was so excited to get the invitation
to be with you because I have so much respect
for you and what you've built. And we certainly don't
take it for granted that this is the twenty eight
year of our brand. But to build a brand, I
(26:48):
mean you've got to have an understanding of who you're
serving and price to value ratio, and you know what
it is that you're seeking to accomplish. Infrastructure, all of it.
It's got to be in place. Absolutely. I'm very impressed
by you. So I will ask the last question, UM,
which is this has nothing to do with um. This
(27:10):
is purely business, not your family, not giving birth to
your kids. Not this is the rose and thorn of
your career. What what is the rose and what has
been a thorn? Let's see thorn. I'll start with that. Um.
We you know, our our company bumped into bankruptcy, not
us personally, but it was at a time when we
(27:31):
had one major retailer carrying our products, our socks, and
which that brand grew. It grew to include a complete
line of apparel, um and accessories. And at that point
in time, we had thirty seven team members with families
on payroll, and the bank called to set up a lunch,
(27:56):
UM and I enjoyed lunch with a bank on many
Asians always sharing our business plan. This time was very,
very different. I mean it was just so different. You know,
reaching for the for the check, one of the um
kind elderly bankers just said, you know, if this doesn't
work out, we could take away all your homes um.
(28:19):
And it was very chilling. So it was also very
eye opening and and we came through it. You know,
there were a lot of twenty four seven days. It was.
It was hard work, um. And I would say the
rose is the gift of being able despite all the naysayers,
(28:42):
despite people saying it couldn't be done. Uh. I love
to be underestimated. That's a powerful place to be. I
love that being able to grow and to have a
business today that provides so many jobs in so many services.
And I'd say the biggest rows is a nonprofit work
(29:04):
that we are privileged to be able to be involved
with that supports people all over the world. And that's
what inspires our team. And did you thrive or simply
survived during the pandemic? Did your business Thriver survive, Bethany,
We were very grateful, uh, And I really believe because
(29:27):
we've been pivoting since day one, it allowed us to
continue to pivot without missing a beat. And again, I
work with an incredible team. I love this team their family,
and we worked really hard. I'd say, you know, we're
working harder, we're working differently but bringing great solutions to
people in this time. So I'm incredibly grateful for what
(29:53):
we've been able to do despite the pandemic. Well, it's amazing.
You're talking very much about not only how you can
have a business where you are profitable, and you're also
helping other people. You're doing two different things at the
same time and they're all, you know, colliding in a
beautiful way. So are converging in a beautiful way. So
I think it's amazing. Um. I think it's great that
(30:14):
you're a good example of someone who when the Snowbob
was shaken during COVID, everybody just has to collect themselves,
take a deep breath, and that's when things usually go sideways.
But it's all about how you approach something. I've like
you've learned more from your mistakes than your successes, and
these are the times that define us. So I feel
the same way about the pandemic. It was like, how
(30:36):
do we do things differently? Shake it up, take a
deep breath, don't be stunned, and just execute. So I
I this has been a great conversation. You are one
of the first people I thought of wanting to speak
to when I created the filter and the brand of
what this show is. Oh well, definitely, thank you, thank you,
thank you so much. That means so much from you.
So I appreciate your time. UM, and I just think
(30:59):
it's amazing that you're doing and helpful lot of people.
So I'm glad you've talked with us today. So that
was Hathy Ireland. She is a mogul. She is a powerhouse,
a businesswoman who started out as a model. She became
a sports illustrated swimsuit model. She seems like someone who's
(31:20):
been underestimated many times in her life, and she has
a multibillion dollar conglomerate that has many brands and businesses
underneath it. Uh. Faith is an unequivocal part of her brand,
her motivation, her life, faith, family, than her business. Um,
(31:41):
there's a lot to learn from her and she does not.
She is a mogul that is not in the typical
if there's even a typical mogul package. I'm sure she's
been underestimated her entire life and career. And so it's
an interesting conversation from an undeniable brand, older businesswoman who
(32:02):
puts helping others at the forefront of the business decisions
that she makes. So she very clearly and believably is
not motivated by money. So that's a different type of
entrepreneur and a different lens to look through being a
business person and building a brand. Well, you know, the
trip is, I've found that most of the people here,
(32:23):
from Cheryl Sandberg to Matthew McConaughey, that they really haven't
been primarily motivated by money. And that's something to think
about when you think about building a brand in a business,
your reasons for doing it, your motivation, what you really want,
and if you're being true to yourself an authentic you
(32:45):
probably will be able to be successful at business. And
another thing that I realized from Kathy that I've known
but it's continually confirmed, is that old school hard work
is how to build a brand and a business, and
old school hard work is how to succeed in relationships.
(33:14):
Just Be is hosted and executive produced by me Bethany Frankel.
Just Be is a production of Be Real Productions and
I Heart Radio. Our managing producer is Fiona Smith and
our producer is Stephanie Stender. Our ep is Morgan Leavoy.
To catch more moments from the show, follow us on
Instagram and just be with Bethany
Let me just ask this question. Don't many have shipped
to carry too? So like what's in my purse? Sometimes
it's a bar, it's an EpiPen, always an EpiPen. What's
the difference between a messenger bag because you said he
used to carry a messenger bag like one of those
sort of like, and a brief isn't a briefcase like
a men's purse. So I don't And then I understand
that there are many gay men that where you know,
(00:34):
heels and purses and great, um, I don't know that
many straight men. Why is it really just a female thing?
I don't men need to carry their ship without the
carrying iPad or like paperwork. So a backpack is okay,
a briefcase is okay, a messenger bag is okay. But
like a cross body merce, I think I'm calling it
(00:58):
is that wrong? People? You said not online data. Now
everybody only online date. So one day men will just
be wearing purses. Straight men will be wearing purses because
there's one guy just has to wear a purse and
then get to care of their ship with them like
we do. I don't know. I feel that I like
to have I like my person sitting on my bed
waiting for where we're gonna waiting. Glasses. That's why men
wear like blazers on planes, a lot of pockets. That
(01:20):
sounds like a good way to lose everything you own. Okay,
you might have a wallet, you have glasses in another pocket,
chaps to get another pocket, phone in another pocket. What
if you're a check bookind of guy. What if you
have an allergy, you need your eppypen. So like, I
don't know, I think we should bring male purses back
or it's in. I don't see a problem with men
maile purses. I think they have to be designed properly
(01:40):
for heterosexual men and designed properly for gay men. By
the way, many gay men don't want to be wearing
like blinged out purses or little goat up purses. I mean,
I just think it's just a functional item. Take it easy, everybody.
It's okay to have a male purse, and no problem
with that at all. Listen, if a man was wearing
a cross body bag on a first date, they'll I
might judge. So maybe I'm a hypocrite. I'm not sure.
(02:04):
Let's think about this one. Tell me if you think
there's such an ocean between a cross body bag for
a man and a messenger bag and a backpack in
a briefcase or a brief bag. It's a brief bag.
It's a small bag for everything you need to know.
It's called a brief bag. Marketing it here right now,
steal it ticket, Let's do it. My next guest is
(02:32):
Kathy Ireland, who was a model for decades then started
her brand marketing company, Kathy Ireland Worldwide, where she is
the CEO. She founded her company and has since grown
it into a multi billion dollar international enterprise. We talked
today about how her parents prepared her to be an
entrepreneur as she went from model to mogul, and what
(02:55):
it takes to be successful in business and in relationships.
I hope you enjoy the conversation. Well, thank you for
doing this. I don't know how much you know about
this podcast, but this podcast is basically the filter is
(03:15):
people who have built a brand, started from the bottom
and now they're here. So I want to just get
a sense of, um, your upbringing. I read a little
bit about you. It seems like, um, you always were
somebody who liked to work, and you seem to have
a structure as a child, Like, so is that because
your parents were disciplinarians or you came from a very
(03:36):
um traditional quote unquote normal background, or what was that? Like?
I'm blessed to have amazing parents. My mom and dad
raised my two sisters and me to not have limits.
And you know, as a little girl, I remember my
dad saying the prayers at dinner, you know, thank you
(03:58):
God for making me the richest man in world. And
I grew up thinking we were materially wealthy, um, which
we were not. We never went without yet Dad was
speaking about, you know, just priceless joys of our family.
So my dad worked in labor relations. He worked with
a farm workers growing up in Santa Barbara. He worked
(04:20):
with says Or Chavez and is a little girl driving
past Oxnarden camerio. He'd always point out like, look, girls, look,
and he would point out people who were working in
the fields who had no place to relieve themselves with dignity.
He would point out people bending over doing labor that
(04:44):
would bring food to our tables with these short hose
because they were less expensive. How people are treated as
always been at the forefront of my mind. My mom
is my hero. I mean everything from babysitting business, house
keeping business. Mom would make in the seventies, she made
(05:05):
halter dresses that she'd sell at art fares on the beach,
and as like a six seven year old, I would
make jewelry and handbags that would coordinate with mom's design.
So that entrepreneurial spirit, the creativity from my mom, how
people are treated from my dad definitely impacts everything that
we do. And we started our brand from my kitchen table.
(05:28):
I was an aging pregnant model. We started with a
single pair of socks, and we started by conducting surprise
factory inspections because you'll learn a lot when you show
up unexpectedly. And as our company has grown, that's something
that we continue today and it's critical to our work.
Sorry you said we, so who's we started? We? So
(05:51):
that's our team. And during all the years that I modeled,
I was trying and failing at businesses. The modeling career
would not have gone on as long as it did
had one of those earlier ventures been successful. UH learned
a lot of powerful lessons along the way, and so
I was investing in people. UH somebody with a great
(06:13):
I who would become our worldwide, genius creative director, somebody
who understood marketing, someone who would be our vision strategist.
This wonderful team and we've got our millennial team, our
gen z team. It's it's really become family. Well, I
want to understand the how we got here. So you, um,
(06:38):
were discovered as a young girl by elite modeling agency
to just become a model. Just it was it was
something that you're gonna do on the side that you
thought it might be an interesting opportunity. Um, how did
that happen? At? What age was that? So, Bethany, I
was sixteen and I was a beach rat. I mean,
I was just my nose was always peeling, my hair
was always fried. This Glenda right, and this was in
(07:01):
Santa Barbara. This okay, got it? Yeah, So it's been
there since I was three years old and I went
to I went to the school and I was not
model material yet. This was at a time when like
the look of the moment was changing and so suddenly, um,
one eyebrow was okay, it was like good, So that
(07:23):
was great. So as Scout came to the class one
day asked if I'd like to go to New York
for the summer, and I said, no, thank you. Um,
I just it just didn't seem like something that that
that I would want to do. And did you think
you were pretty? Like did you think I'm sure you
didn't think about that, but did you think you were pretty? No? No, Um,
(07:45):
I didn't. Um, I mean I really didn't. That had
never been a part of my life. And recognizing that
it was really eye opening too because they were beautiful
um girls that were not given that opportunity. And so
I recognized, you know what, what is beauty? You know,
we're we're all beautiful um in different ways. But what
(08:08):
the world says? I mean, who really cares? It's just
very fickle. And uh, it gave me a good a
good understanding of that, something like the Emperor's New Clothes.
Yet that the agency call, they said, we will advance
to the money to spend the summer in New York.
If you don't like it, you can go home. And
so I just figured, you know what, it's an opportunity
(08:30):
to or earn some money to either go to college
or start a business. Wow, so you were thinking very early,
So like I didn't even think about the entrepreneurial world
until my late thirties, so you really had it instilled
in you early. So how many years did you model?
I mean about fifteen years something like that, So fifteen years.
But at the same time, you have these other ideas
(08:52):
and you're already aware that you're an entrepreneur. You just
had corty ideas you wanted to execute our inside you
know that you're a business person. It was at my
every spare moment um, you know, meeting with scientists and um,
different experts in different fields to try to learn and grow.
What did you want your business to be? What was
(09:12):
your goal? I wish I could x, not model, but this,
oh well, I mean as a as a child, so
many things. I grew up watching Jacques Cousteau. I wanted
in Scoba diving. I wanted to be an underwater explore
whatever that looked like. Didn't know how I'd earned money
doing that. UM. I wanted to uh to own things
(09:33):
and and do good with them. I wanted to build things, UM,
be creative. It was always there. I thought about being
a teacher. That was so appealing to me. And having
the opportunity to do those passions in different forms has
has been amazing. Well, that's interesting that you talk about that,
because people now, young people want to get on the
(09:57):
road and rush. They want to you know, you know,
I go to college or the second they finished college,
you know exactly what they're doing. And I didn't really
understand what I was or what I was doing, and
sometimes I still don't, and so my late thirties, So
what you're describing is a similarity to me, where I
always had different jobs, different ideas, did different things, took
the road where it took me thought I wanted to
(10:17):
be certain things at at at a certain time, whether
it was an actress or a comedian, or a host
or a natural food chef for a baker. But I
feel that that's valuable and people shouldn't be pigeonholing themselves
and rushing to know. It's about the journey. So you're
describing the journey because through that journey, and I'm sure
that all the twenty different ideas and businesses and jobs
(10:39):
you had, including modeling help you now in this bigger
empire that you have. You're so calling back I'm sure
to so many of those different things, and even though
you didn't think that at the time, they mattered in
the future. You're probably pulling things from them now, is that?
Would that be accurate? You are so perceptive, Bethany. I
mean absolutely, And uh, you're much younger than I am.
(11:01):
When I was young, I didn't go to college. It
wasn't my path. My formal education ended when I barely
finished high school. Uh. But I continue to learn and
be a student and believe in in great education in
many different forms. When I was young, kids would graduate
from college and find a job. Today, young people need
(11:25):
to invent one and not just one, but like seven, eight, nine,
ten in their lifetime. And so, yes, what you're saying,
all of those experiences helped me learn how to pivot
at a very young age. That was powerful. The modeling
was a wonderful gift, in the gift of rejection. I
(11:47):
didn't appreciate it in the oh my goodness, going door
to door, banging on doors, selling our socks, and people
laughing in my face, uh, saying what a stupid idea was,
and and other things that I won't say, um, slamming
doers in our face. But that didn't stop me. It
(12:09):
didn't destroy me. No, meant well, at least we're talking.
I'll come back tomorrow, you know, maybe your circumstances will
have changed, maybe you'll no longer be the person empower
the decision maker, maybe it will be in a better mood.
And I do encourage people, Um, if you're getting a rejection,
(12:29):
please don't let that stop you. Don't let if you
believe in what you're doing, if you've got passion for it,
don't let someone else's opinion of you or your circumstances
define or destroy you. And calendar to come back six
months later. If you get to know, I mean, I
was probably a little stalky. I'd come back the next day,
(12:51):
So maybe wait six months, that might be better advice.
So when you go into an airport or a public place,
not in Santa Barb because I'm sure everybody knows you're there,
do people think of you as Do people walk up
(13:12):
to you and say, oh, your Caffee Ireland the model,
or do they think that you're Caffee Ireland the mogul.
The reason I asked that is because sometimes people think
I'm for reality TV, and then other people, oh, that's
the skinny girl. And you've had a much longer career
in both, So I wonder what you are to people,
you know, Bethany. Um, it's that's such an interesting question.
And for so many years we intentionally built our brand
(13:36):
beneath the radar, and Forbes out at us. Um they
you know, they said, well, we've been clocking you. We're
going to do a story with or without your participation.
And I, you know, I love the people at Forbes,
and I always appreciate having, especially coming from that shut
up imposed background, having my voice heard, especially when it
comes to our brand, which I'm so passionate about. And
(14:00):
as I get older and maturity, I recognize what a
gift it is to break through my shy and selfish
shell of quietness to connect with other people. As I
get older, I recognize it's a gift to be exposed
to needs that are so much bigger than me and
(14:21):
opportunities that are so much bigger. And answer to your question, Uh,
it's wonderful that so often I can go out and
nobody knows who I am. They recognize the brand, but
maybe not me so much. Younger people don't necessarily know
me for the modeling career at all. It's um, hey,
(14:44):
I grew up sleeping in your princess Bouquet bedroom and
in your beautiful bed and I'm getting married now and
I want you to you know, I want to use
one of your estates for my wedding. You know, I
want you your team to those my gown, my jewelry,
all of that. Or it's you know, hey, I bought
this rug. Do you have a lamp? That? What you know?
(15:06):
What do you recommend? What should I get? It's it's
it's more of the business, is what I would say.
It's where you are now as an involved woman. I
asked that because I didn't realize that we had parallels.
Like I wouldn't have thought of it this way, but
people might not take a model or reality television stars seriously.
And I like the street cred that a place like
(15:27):
Forbes gives you. It makes me feel I think it's
important for women, even though you're under the radar. I
think it's important for you to be over the radar,
because for women to think that you could come from
being what everyone would think of as oh, just shut
up and smile, and you know, models are dumb and
that kind of thing. To be you know, known respected,
to have street cred, I mean, I think that is
valid and valuable. You have it Thank you, Bethany, thank
(15:52):
you and and too and you're you're such a powerful
example of this, Bethany, of not having limits. I mean,
nothing ever stops and we just keep growing. I mean
our our company from him to insurance Home, I mean
office lighting, sleepware, intimates next year, sportswear, and the launch
of our men's brand My six, which means got your
(16:13):
back with that, Tommy Maherry Uh, he's a marine. I mean,
if you think of Berkshire Hathaway Um, Warren Buffett is
someone I met through IRV Blumpkin and at Nebraska Furniture
Mart n f M, and just an incredible business leader,
and he introduced us to Warren Buffett. But what he's
(16:36):
built with Berkshire Hathaway, it's extremely inspiring. And I would
say our company can be defined as a mini conglomerate
inspired by Berkshire Hathaway, yet at a much, much, much
smaller valuation. We started with socks and we've sold over
(16:57):
a billion pairs of socks um and we keep going.
We're opening Kathy Ireland recovery centers throughout the country, and
our first one opens in Laconia, New Hampshire this fall.
Alcohol and drug abuse costs our country billions of dollars.
It destroys family, steals lives, and our passion with our
(17:17):
partners at Ascension is to break that cycle UM regardless
of your ability to pay for treatment. And you know,
when you're in that spiral, you either break down or
you break through. And UH for for me personally, after
faith and family, the work is a major priority because
it makes our nonprofit commitments grow. And I have the
(17:41):
privilege is serving as International Chair of the National Pediatric
Foundation UM, also serving on the board of the nfl
P I, the w n b a p A Board
of Advocates UM, the Advisory board for the Madison Program
at Princeton University, and in the abassador for the Elizabeth
(18:01):
Taylor Aids Foundation. UH our vision of our company that
encompasses all that we do, all the different sectors, our teach,
inspire and power make our world better. If potential partner
doesn't meet that criteria, we're not a good fit. And
how that looks is we UH. We have ten initiatives
(18:25):
that we require partners to participate in, and these are
nonprofit ways in which they can UM be involved in
and it involves everything from fighting hunger supporting education, fighting disease,
fighting human trafficking, and supporting our military veterans. And so
(18:48):
in order to work with us, that's the first test.
We we just got to see what will you do.
We don't require a monetary amount, it can be volunteer days,
but it's got to be profound and make a difference
in that way. In success, we know that we are
really honoring that vision and it gets our team excited.
Sometimes people say, well, why do you still do this
(19:08):
after all these years? What what keeps you going? And
my answer is my goodness. We have a lot of
work ahead of us in so many ways where a
baby brand there, there's so much to be done, and
that you must have an incredible sense of other people, infrastructure,
managing from the beginning to be able to do this.
(19:31):
You're I don't, I don't think you're doing this yourself.
But still there has to be mean your skin looks good,
you look fresh, you look relaxed. There has to be
a way that you are handling this where you still
have some sort of a life. You have three kids,
you have it seems to be a successful marriage, which
we'll get into. How the hell do you manage this?
And and and I want off the ride half the time,
and I want to give up half of it so
(19:53):
somebody could come in and take it over. So what
what is that about? It's you know what, Bethany. A
lot of times there are hard days, and brand building
is you know, it is hard work. I've been accused
of being a control freak. I prefer to think of
it as passionate. I am deeply passionate. Not just what
we do, but how we do it. It's got to
(20:14):
be done well. Um. I'm getting much better at delegating
work with an incredible team, but it it is important
that what we do that that we can just protect
the integrity of it. That is important. And the how
it's you know, I people talk about balance and some
(20:35):
days I don't have it at all. Um, some days
I am a mess. What is key for me to
just to just to go through each and every day
is that I honor my priorities and for me, it's
my faith, and then it's my family, and then it's
(20:56):
the work. And the minute those orders are in the
minute those values are out of order, okay, my coping
skills are out the window, and I'm not effective at anything,
and so I must and know. I think for women
it can be a hard thing. I was forty before
I learned that no was a complete sentence. Many people
(21:16):
pull at you and you don't see it happening. And
it's like any mom who has a couple of kids
and doesn't have a business understands this. It's a slippery
slope they're pulling and if they want you here. And
boundaries are so important I have found and even more
really sticking to the boundaries, like certain things you just
find that, oh they're coming over there, they're gonna do
this tomorrow. I set this up for you, and I
keep saying yes, and then I'm no, bos stop stop,
(21:39):
Like I'm not an animal. You're sitting behind a desk.
I got either the talent, be the face, to be
the thing. So saying no, it's a discipline. What about
your quote unquote, I talk about successful relationships along have
(22:00):
you been married thirty three years in August? Okay, so
no matter what the behind the scenes dynamics, that would
be defined as a successful relationship. And uh, your husband
said doctor, emergency room doctor and commercial fisherman. Okay, so
he's you know, by everyone's standards, a successful man too,
by the superficial definition of successful, he has a successful career.
(22:23):
So how you know I often talk about two different
people who are very successful in relationship with other successful people,
and I have heard everything from I don't work on
my partner, I work on myself. Let they work on themselves. Um,
we give each other a long leash. We have our
own lives, but come together. So you know, we check
(22:45):
in with each other once a day. And then I'm
collecting all of this wisdom. So what are the things
that you have found to be your threads that have
contributed to what you've done right and wrong? Uh? You know,
every marriage is, Um, it takes work. It takes a
lot of work and good work. Did it always take
a lot of work, even in the beginning, Yeah, yeah,
(23:06):
it's it's it's always been more. I'd say more work
in the beginning, a lot more work in the beginning.
And you know, hopefully as we grow older, we keep learning.
And I never want to make the same mistakes twice.
What's been key in our marriage is that I don't
look at it as a contract. It's a covenant with God.
And so, uh, there are days when we might not
(23:30):
feel like Um, you know, honoring our our marriage with
each other. There are days when we might make each
other really angry or or whatever. It's like, Okay, I
made a promise to God, do so. Um. That relationship
helps me to see my husband and others, you know,
other relationships too through his eyes with value. And it's like, okay,
(23:54):
how how am I going to speak to this person? Um,
I'm not just gonna just earned out, you know, I'm
gonna be quick to think, slow to speak, and slow
to become angry. Don't let the sun go down on
your anger. I mean, those are those are key. I
like that. And you know what I like? Um, I
mean I respect Uh, I respect your faith a lot.
(24:17):
Like it's a dedication, it's a discipline, and it's it's
just it's amazing. I mean, you and Maria Shriver are
the two people who really walk that walk. Um, and
I like UM. I think it's comforting to people to
hear that not only business, but relationships both. It's really
not about bells and whistles and light. I always say,
(24:39):
you can make a life. You can create a lifestyle
out of a life. You can't create a life out
of a lifestyle. So people are always worried about what
everybody else thinks. Lifestyle and people are worried about Instagram
selfies and filters, and like you're gonna create a whole
business from either being on TV or being social media famous,
which is like the low hanging brute. That's sort of
just like all the shiny objects. But it's comforting. It's
(25:00):
not so sexy, but it's comforting to to hear and
know that business and relationships are old school hard work. Period.
Doesn't matter if it's eighteen hundred or if it's one.
It's the same story. Yeah, you know, Bethany, I have
not figured out any way around that. It's You're absolutely right,
it's it's hard work. It's good work. Same thing with
your weight, your body, your health. Yeah yeah, good for
(25:23):
that's good. I like, I think that's comforting because everybody
gets the keys to that. Everybody gets a successful relationship.
Everybody could be successful, have a successful business. There's no shortcut.
Oh and and Bethany, is something you said that is
so relevant to I mean, I have had really famous
people come to me and tell me that, you know,
they're they're trying to build a brand, but it's like
(25:44):
really hard work and it there's nothing wrong with the
celebrity endorsement if that's what you want. But as far
as is building a brand, I mean that takes a
lot more than an autograph, photo or um, you know,
and that's why celebrities are brands. But they don't have brands,
and that I mean literally I can think of five
that do. It's not that it's not easy to build
(26:07):
a brand. To be a brand is a different story
to be really famous. And like you said, it's not
your name on something or take a picture. It's very
different than building a brand with your name or without
your name, just any brand. So that's any brandeah. I
mean the average lifespan of a brand is five years
and I didn't know that. That makes me happy. I
can't believe we've made it over a decade. Wow, Well, Bethany,
(26:27):
you're you are amazing. I mean, what you've built is incredible,
and you're inspiring and empowering so many people. I'm so
I mean, I was so excited to get the invitation
to be with you because I have so much respect
for you and what you've built. And we certainly don't
take it for granted that this is the twenty eight
year of our brand. But to build a brand, I
(26:48):
mean you've got to have an understanding of who you're
serving and price to value ratio, and you know what
it is that you're seeking to accomplish. Infrastructure, all of it.
It's got to be in place. Absolutely. I'm very impressed
by you. So I will ask the last question, UM,
which is this has nothing to do with um. This
(27:10):
is purely business, not your family, not giving birth to
your kids. Not this is the rose and thorn of
your career. What what is the rose and what has
been a thorn? Let's see thorn. I'll start with that. Um.
We you know, our our company bumped into bankruptcy, not
us personally, but it was at a time when we
(27:31):
had one major retailer carrying our products, our socks, and
which that brand grew. It grew to include a complete
line of apparel, um and accessories. And at that point
in time, we had thirty seven team members with families
on payroll, and the bank called to set up a lunch,
(27:56):
UM and I enjoyed lunch with a bank on many
Asians always sharing our business plan. This time was very,
very different. I mean it was just so different. You know,
reaching for the for the check, one of the um
kind elderly bankers just said, you know, if this doesn't
work out, we could take away all your homes um.
(28:19):
And it was very chilling. So it was also very
eye opening and and we came through it. You know,
there were a lot of twenty four seven days. It was.
It was hard work, um. And I would say the
rose is the gift of being able despite all the naysayers,
(28:42):
despite people saying it couldn't be done. Uh. I love
to be underestimated. That's a powerful place to be. I
love that being able to grow and to have a
business today that provides so many jobs in so many services.
And I'd say the biggest rows is a nonprofit work
(29:04):
that we are privileged to be able to be involved
with that supports people all over the world. And that's
what inspires our team. And did you thrive or simply
survived during the pandemic? Did your business Thriver survive, Bethany,
We were very grateful, uh, And I really believe because
(29:27):
we've been pivoting since day one, it allowed us to
continue to pivot without missing a beat. And again, I
work with an incredible team. I love this team their family,
and we worked really hard. I'd say, you know, we're
working harder, we're working differently but bringing great solutions to
people in this time. So I'm incredibly grateful for what
(29:53):
we've been able to do despite the pandemic. Well, it's amazing.
You're talking very much about not only how you can
have a business where you are profitable, and you're also
helping other people. You're doing two different things at the
same time and they're all, you know, colliding in a
beautiful way. So are converging in a beautiful way. So
I think it's amazing. Um. I think it's great that
(30:14):
you're a good example of someone who when the Snowbob
was shaken during COVID, everybody just has to collect themselves,
take a deep breath, and that's when things usually go sideways.
But it's all about how you approach something. I've like
you've learned more from your mistakes than your successes, and
these are the times that define us. So I feel
the same way about the pandemic. It was like, how
(30:36):
do we do things differently? Shake it up, take a
deep breath, don't be stunned, and just execute. So I
I this has been a great conversation. You are one
of the first people I thought of wanting to speak
to when I created the filter and the brand of
what this show is. Oh well, definitely, thank you, thank you,
thank you so much. That means so much from you.
So I appreciate your time. UM, and I just think
(30:59):
it's amazing that you're doing and helpful lot of people.
So I'm glad you've talked with us today. So that
was Hathy Ireland. She is a mogul. She is a powerhouse,
a businesswoman who started out as a model. She became
a sports illustrated swimsuit model. She seems like someone who's
(31:20):
been underestimated many times in her life, and she has
a multibillion dollar conglomerate that has many brands and businesses
underneath it. Uh. Faith is an unequivocal part of her brand,
her motivation, her life, faith, family, than her business. Um,
(31:41):
there's a lot to learn from her and she does not.
She is a mogul that is not in the typical
if there's even a typical mogul package. I'm sure she's
been underestimated her entire life and career. And so it's
an interesting conversation from an undeniable brand, older businesswoman who
(32:02):
puts helping others at the forefront of the business decisions
that she makes. So she very clearly and believably is
not motivated by money. So that's a different type of
entrepreneur and a different lens to look through being a
business person and building a brand. Well, you know, the
trip is, I've found that most of the people here,
(32:23):
from Cheryl Sandberg to Matthew McConaughey, that they really haven't
been primarily motivated by money. And that's something to think
about when you think about building a brand in a business,
your reasons for doing it, your motivation, what you really want,
and if you're being true to yourself an authentic you
(32:45):
probably will be able to be successful at business. And
another thing that I realized from Kathy that I've known
but it's continually confirmed, is that old school hard work
is how to build a brand and a business, and
old school hard work is how to succeed in relationships.
(33:14):
Just Be is hosted and executive produced by me Bethany Frankel.
Just Be is a production of Be Real Productions and
I Heart Radio. Our managing producer is Fiona Smith and
our producer is Stephanie Stender. Our ep is Morgan Leavoy.
To catch more moments from the show, follow us on
Instagram and just be with Bethany
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