June 4, 2026 • 55 mins
Where have you been, what did you find, and who did it make you? On the new podcast Traveling Through, host David Prior, travel writer and founder of immersive travel company PRIOR, invites culture makers like Jenna Lyons, David Remnick, Deborah Needleman, and Athena Calderone to unpack the places, objects, and experiences that have changed their perspective, influenced their work, or marked a turning point in their lives. Because the best stories aren't about the destination; they're about curiosity.
Self-taught designer, cook, and creative force Athena Calderone — dubbed "the modern girl's Martha Stewart” by T magazine — joins David to trace the restless curiosity that took her from Long Island to New York's nightlife scene, and on to Ibiza, Morocco, and Rome, always finding beauty and inspiration just beyond the obvious.
Find Traveling Through on YouTube, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get podcasts. New episodes release every other Thursday.
Check out our Apple Maps Guides on Marrakech's Most Magical Riads here and Vienna’s Best Coffeehouses.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin self taught is not a slight when it comes
to Athena Calderone. In fact, it might be the singular
quality that makes her so special. She's famously been called
the new Martha Stewart by the New York Times, and
the Brooklyn Brownstone she designed is the home that launched
a million pinterestpoorts. But knowing Athena is to know she
(00:36):
doesn't really think of herself as.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
An authority or even as an influencer.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Growing up in Long Island, she hit the nightlife of
New York early, where she met her husband DJ Victor
Calderone and they lived a life on tour. But her
curiosity was never confined backstage. It's in fact where her
aesthetic education began. So from discovering another side of Abitha,
being drawn in by Moroccan hospitality, renewing her roots in Rome,
and now embracing the evolution of her eye in Vienna,
(01:03):
Athena is one of those rare people that, despite her
beautiful life, she still manages to take us all on
the road. Here's my conversation with my collaborator and friend,
Athena Calderone. Welcome to traveling through This is really a
conversation for me about curiosity and curious people and how
(01:25):
travelers have shaped their life and their lens. We can
start anywhere, but I'd love to think about, like, what
is an earlier travel in your life that maybe kicked
things off.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Earlier travel wasn't really in my orbit at all. I
didn't grow up with travel. I think the only places
that we traveled to throughout my high school years was Vermont,
Like my dad would take me fishing every summer in
a freshwater lake called Lake Bomacine. And Vermont. We went
to Florida once, and we went to Puerto Rico once.
(01:59):
And besides that, I'd never really been on a plane.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, I didn't travel much when I was growing up.
We went on a trip like kind of Grizzwold's National Lampoons.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
European Vacation exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
When to Europe one time, which was very lucky and
kind of changed my life when I was ten, But
we stayed in youth Hostales. It was not kind of
a glamorous thing. And also I think, you know, there's
this thing about being Australian where it's just those distances.
So we traveled a bit, you know, to like beach
towns and things like that. But sure, you know, I
have like this theory and I would never change it
that if you traveled a lot as a child, sometimes
(02:36):
you don't have the appreciation, the appreciation but also this
romantic sense of the rest of the world and this
kind of inner urgent need to to go and do
those things. And I often I think about you as
having this inner urgent need around so many things, and
I think that's why you're so voracious.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think you're absolutely right. I think we both share that.
Certain Also, my lack of formal education as well as
my lack of travel and culture as a child, has
just made me like ripe for curiosity and like I
want it self educated. I want to understand more, I
want to see more, I want to learn more, and
it's just made me like really hungry to see as
(03:15):
much as possible. I'm also thinking back, we went camping
a lot. Every memory that I have of travel, even
though it was close by, was always it holds a
lot of emotion for me and an adventure for me.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I feel like the same way I was obsessed with
rock pools and finding little things in shells and staffish
like at the beach town that we went to, or
like exploring up a creek, which is a very Australian
kind of background. But I think it's like it doesn't
matter that you kind of went to the other side
of the planet as a child. It's if you have
(03:50):
that innate sense of curiosity, it just.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Sort of grows.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, you were telling me.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
A little bit about your Morocco trip, and I'd love
to talk to you a little bit more about that.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, for sure. Well, when I had my son, Jivonne Victor,
my husband was on the road a lot, so travel
coincided with marriage and family life, and we just took
jivon everywhere with us. And I also didn't have career
at the time, so I was just on the road
(04:21):
a lot with my husband and we would just begin
that's like really when travel began. But Morocco holds a
very amri Cash specifically holds a very special place in
my heart because I'd never been to Africa before, and
it wasn't even something that I had really researched, Like
I wasn't really at that point of my life where
(04:42):
I was like studying and researching before I traveled. I
was kind of just like up for seeing where we landed,
and you know what presented itself.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
What year did you go to Morocco?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Jeevon was probably around two, so it was two thousand
and five. And I'll just never forget, you know, walking
through the Medina to get to the Riad and it's
just utter chaos and sense sounds and you know, just
meandering like small little blocks, and I was like, where
are we going? What did I make the right choice?
(05:17):
You know, like it was just crazy for me to
think about. Like you opened these like beautiful wooden doors
and they're an oasis awaits and I just loved this
idea of this like intimate, small home where you have
these hosts that are legitimately like your hosts, like they
(05:40):
are cooking for you, and you know, there's this this
nucleus of family, which was really my nucleus at the time,
like my family was and still is my everything. But
I didn't I don't want to say that it's all
that I had, but like I didn't have a creative
outlet at the time, and I'm such a creative so
I really threw myself into my family and it was
(06:03):
the first time I was exploring, like you know, cooking
and hosting and designing just in my home, not p professionally,
so being in this riad and seeing these people so
graciously host and care for every drop of experience that
they were offering us. You know, Jivon, they invited Jevon
(06:26):
into the who was two years old, but they invited
him into the kitchen every night, and he would stand
up on a chair and he would cook with them.
And I'm getting emotional because like they were communicating with
this two year old and not speaking the same language,
and they were offering him this experience that I could
(06:47):
never really offer him. Like he was understanding kind of
culture and culinary and like and love and care of
food and family in a way that I could never
have offered him otherwise. And I just remember being just
hit with so much emotion as I am right now
about how magical this experiences and so far from our
(07:11):
life and from our everyday existence.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I can feel that from you.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
The interesting thing about Morocco is it's not a restaurant
culture at all, maybe like to the exclusion of almost
any other culture. Like you get the best food in
those reads or in those homes, Like yeah, I always
tell people when they're going like eat at the read. Eat,
you know, try to get into people's homes because that's
where the best recipes are sure. And I take that
(07:36):
from Moroccan culture too, that it is that principle of
enveloping people.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yes, yes, I will never forget. When we entered the read,
it was really late at night, and Jivonne, who was
like a very kind of chill traveler and calm kid
who still to this day is like, he's not very outward.
He doesn't like I'm not gonna say, he doesn't emote
as a child. He wasn't super like verbal and like
(08:03):
crying and yelling, and I didn't even know what a
read was. And then I was there and saw how
quiet and small and intimate, and I was just like,
I don't want to be that parent that has this
kid that's like losing it. And I remember trying to
settle him and quiet him, and in that moment, I
felt like he was psychic and he was feeling energies
(08:26):
in the space, which is so I've never really like
talked about this before, but I felt like there was
like something that was like triggering him in that space.
But then on the polar opposite, like the next day,
we went out into the Medina, and I remember being
so overwhelmed by like everybody coming at you and trying
to get you to come into their shop and buy
(08:47):
something and negotiate with you. And I remember being like
completely overwhelmed, sincerely, and I remember Jeevon just like being there,
like looking taking it in calm as a cucumber, and
I was just like this kid man like he is
meant to travel.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I feel like Markesh has another thing all together now,
because you know, it's such a tour destination and of
course it still has its magic, but it's kind of
evolved as well. There are a lot of designers based
there now that are creating great things that are within
that Moroccan design vernacular, like Benny Ruggs, the people that
(09:24):
you did a collaboration with, and I think from a
design perspective, those tiles, those rugs, like the tuaregmats from
Mauritania or the Berber culture that can be translated into
homes that I have one in my house in Milan,
and I don't know, I think that now Morocco, well,
(09:44):
it's a successful example of using the craftsmanship from there
and contemporizing it, and that's not the case with a
lot of these places where traditional craft sadly becomes kind
of a museum piece or a tourist piece.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
When I wanted to talk with you about my experience
in Marrakesh, it was more so initially that I wanted
to talk about how it was the first place that
really pushed me from culinary point of view to explore
flavors outside of the Italian American vernacular that I grew
up with, as well as like my design aesthetic back
then for my homes was very like minimal and sleek
(10:22):
and like singular, like B and B Italia. And then
I went there and I just saw these like sun
drenched colors and things that had patina and chips, and
you know, I started to suddenly see how I was
like appreciating time worn colors and patina and history and craft.
(10:44):
I'm just remembering this right now, but I was in
the midst of designing an apartment that we had bought
in Dumbo, two apartments that we were combining, and it
was the first time that I really used travel as
like this catalyst to make sure that I'm pulling pieces
from these far flung places in the world. Like every
(11:04):
time I travel somewhere, I bring some sort of trinket home,
and that really sounded case traveler.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, you can't help that things, know for sure. I
mean I think, look, there's definitely a reason why so
many of those decorators not just go there and collect things.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But think about Tangier, right.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Some of the great decorators on the planet have these
houses there and then have export it to wherever they
have their kind of businesses, whether it's London or New York.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Call. Yeah, it's really at the center of like who
I am as a designer right now, and I think
that it started there. I didn't even think about the
whole Jivon read part of the story because the home
is this nucleus of my world still to this day,
and whether it inspired the culinary side of my career
or the design side of my career or the family
(11:54):
at the center of it, I really feel like that
reard and that experience is so in alignment with like
who I am today.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, it's such a place and a labyrinth to discover.
I remember going and doing something for Vogue Living actually
when I was kind of quite a naive travel writer actually,
which actually is to be honest, the best.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, the best.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
The best ones are the ones that are excited for
the first time, because then if you've got a good editor,
you can temper it a little bit. And I had
a very good editor, but I went sort of I
remember it vividly, and I have this image that we
shot and I could not tell you who it was
what realited is, but it's this extraordinary image of a
(12:38):
kitchen actually with the mosaic tiles on the walls, just
a little wood table with kind of ratan back, a
little window opening into a courtyard which had like this
kind of very straggly jacaranda. When the cooking is happening
and the sun goes down, the call to prayer is
like coming in through the roof and like it's getting
(12:59):
nighttime and the orange bossom is starting, you know, because
they often have an orange bossom in there. I know,
it's incredibly evocative. I wanted to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You mentioned Victor, your husband, and why you traveled so often,
and he, you know, is one of the great music
producers and DJs worked on, from what I understand, one
of the best albums of all time, which is.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right right of life, of course.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But yeah, I you know, I think that's kind of
why you traveled a lot to Abitha, Is that right?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Abitha we traveled to before we got married. We got
married in ninety nine. I feel like the first time
we went was maybe ninety eight. And so, yeah, he's
a DJ and he plays all around the world, and
it took us to you know, Singapore and Australia and
Japan in one trip, and then you know, Israel and
(13:52):
Italy and Ibiza and another. You know, like we were
just constantly or he was constantly on the road. And
you know, back then there were bigger budgets and you know,
they would fly both of us and Givonne until he
was under two, we didn't have to pay for a flight,
so we just we literally traveled the world together. But
backing up to our first time in Abiita, it was
(14:12):
like the start of our love courtship. And then did
you meet on the dance floor? We met at the
Tunnel in New York City. I was a bartender. I
just moved to New York. I was nineteen years old.
I had a shaved head because I was on a
septum ring. Because I was trying to be like a
bad girl. Because I was such like a Long Island
(14:35):
good girl who did like all the right things, you know,
like never like drank or like partied or anything. And
then I moved to New York City and I was like,
she's gonna become a bad girl. But it was like just.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Like on the you know, well, one of my favorite
parts of you actually is that you're still a potty
girl in ways.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, I do love a dance floor. I love it.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I've seen it, so.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you brought that up because
my roots as somebody, I mean talk about where I
saw culture for the first time. It was at the nightclub,
Like I was seeing fashion and art. I worked at
the Palladium and there was a Kenny Sharp room and
there was you know, murals by Keith Hering, and I
saw drag queens for the first time, and you know,
(15:21):
I just had like I was experienced so much newness
in my world. And I didn't have to travel very far,
thirty minutes from where I grew up, and all of
a sudden I found all this like art and culture
and fashion. But anyway, Victor and I met at the
nightclub and then we started his career kind of took
off after we met and then Ibiza happened. And what
(15:44):
I love so much about Ibiza is the very first
place that we ever traveled with Jivon as a baby,
he was under one years old, was Ibiza. So I
you know, it started with like Victor's career and our courtship,
and then it became where like a place where we
(16:04):
went as a young family also as he was djaying,
and then fast forward now the past, like you know,
we've been going for over twenty five years, but more
recently we've been spending a lot of time there and
it feels like this beautiful full circle moment where you know,
Jivonne's early years were there and now Jievon's a DJ
(16:26):
and he's a producer and he's on the dance floor
with us in the nightclubs. And last summer, Victor dj't
at Circle Loco, which is like one of the biggest
parties in a Biza, and it was like me and
Jivonne and some of Jivon's friends like all in the
DJ booth, like go like going for it, and it
(16:46):
just I was just like this, this is the talk
about the center of my world is my family. But
it's also nightlife and the fact that like now we
still do it as a family.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
It's that's rare.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
It's really rare. And also you know that Jevonn is
twenty three years old now and like he still wants
to be with us, he still wants to travel with us,
Like you know, it's it's really sweet. It's just really sweet.
And and Abita is so much more than just nightlife,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Because well there is like a very literal other side
of Abitha, yes, and another side of Abitha, Like how
do you understand the other side of it?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
We hike a lot when we go to Abiita, and
it's so funny. Sometimes they say a Biza and sometimes
they say Abita, but you know, I mean same same,
I'm just gonn of whatever comes out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
The nature is just like the rugged coastline is so incredible,
the exploration, the just like the raw and the wild.
The north side of the island is so special, which
is where we first started going with.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Oh really, yeah, so you're okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
We were there. The very first hotel we ever stayed
in was all the way north and then yeah, these
past few summers we do these really long sunset hikes
and it literally gives me life. Like those hikes, they're
so it's so beautiful because it pushes me outside of
my comfort zone. You have to be so present. It
forces me to like jump inside these like you know,
(18:17):
underwater caves, and I'm always doing it with my family
and with our dog and it just you're so Now.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's funny you say that because like I only got
to know the Balaric Islands and mostly Majorca in the
past few years, obviously, because it's no secret to Germans
or British people, and it's I mean, there's a certain
thing that happens there, but it's had this big kind
of renaissance. And part of the thing that I didn't
(18:45):
really realize about those islands is there kind of the
hub of European healers. Like I did not realize that
there is some energy there and those communities. Like I
did a watsu massage, which is one of those like
well pooled ones. It's like being in the womb. And
it's only because it was the only thing that was
(19:06):
on the SPA. Man, you and my girlfriends were going
to something. I'm not like the biggest you know, wellness
or spa person. But yeah, I'm up for everything. Yeah,
and it was kind of extraordinary. This woman was like
it was almost like a dula.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
You know. It was one of.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
The most intense experiences that I've had in that vein,
and I just didn't realize there was that energy there.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
There's a huge community of healers, especially in that north
side of Abitha, and there's a lot of like agriculture
and farms, which is why the food is so fantastic.
Like the north really has this like beautifully like rooted,
i don't know, healing energy. But then also Eshedra, which
is it's that big formation of rocks on the like
(19:52):
more western side of the island. But they say it's
one of the most like energetic and magnetic places. Makes
sense on Earth, people are like, oh, Ibiza either welcomes
you or it spits you out. And I'm just like, Okay,
I don't always like buy into the whole wu wu thing,
but there is something beautifully energetic about the island.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
The other thing I was I was thinking about is,
you know, I think sometimes for these places that actually
we returned to because we have memories or an experience
that replicates year to year. It's kind of that return place. Yeah,
and that's kind of special. I thought maybe as your
life evolved it would be different, but I think that's
really interesting.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I think I stopped like going out and with Victor
and like being a part of his nightlife world. And
I think it's also something that's at the core of
our marriage. Like we've always had really individual lives but
also like a unit, as you said, But when I
was trying to figure out career and I was a
young mom, I kind of stopped going out and it
(20:55):
more recently nightlife and dancing. You know. Now I have
this like big career and I have a lot of pressure,
and I have like a lot of time that I'm
like head down in a computer and like that part
of me, like that real free spirit where I get
to like quote unquote let my hair down and like
just be kind of anonymous and be with the people
(21:18):
that like pulled joy out of me, Like I needed
her back in my life, and I like made a
strategic choice to make sure I honored who I was
as a club goer, you know what I mean. Like
it's it's part of who I am, and it does
bring me a lot of joy. But I will say
if I can, if I let myself just go too
(21:39):
far into that night life part of Abitha, because you can,
that doesn't speak to who I am either. So in
a way, the island became this like mirror for me.
Like last year, I like was doing yoga three days
a week, like in these like up on the top
of a hill on a platform, like hearing the cicadas
and these like big pine trees, and like I really
taped back into that like yogi part of myself. I
(22:02):
was going to the market a lot, and I was,
you know, cooking NonStop, like in the house that we
rented to, like that part of myself that sometimes falls
to the waist side when I'm too busy in New
York City, Like I do feel like it Bizo really
allows me to focus on, like who the various parts
of who I am. I don't think design and like culture,
(22:22):
like it doesn't have like museums or like you know,
but it does.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's like it's it has it has a culture of
its own completely, you know. I think that when we're
talking about the unit and your like great love Victor,
that's kind of how we met, right I was just
thinking about it because you were planning.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Your I was planning my. Yeah, my twenty five year
wedding anniversary coincided with that's so interesting. Yeah, yeah, I
kind of hadn't realized that I got married at twenty five.
So then it made my fiftieth birthday and my twenty
five year wedding anniversary coincide. And in that moment, I
(23:01):
didn't do a big celebration for my fortieth birthday. We
actually went to Africa, we went on a safari. At
that point in my life, I didn't feel like celebrating
like four to oh, but five oh coinciding with twenty
five years of love. It just felt like a celebration
of love and life that needed to be like a
big event. And I and you were the first person
(23:24):
that I thought to reach out to to help me
navigate that.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
My great love, of course is Italy and one that
we share and you share as a background right as
a heritage, sure, and Victory as well, and Victor two
of well, of course Calderon Calderon.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
But that's how we first.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I think you messaged me and then we had a
little a little coffee, and we weren't going to work
together necessarily on the trip, because you know, I have
a very strong point of view, you have a very
strong point of view on things. But it's been a
really fun collaboration. And I guess it started as your
vow renewal and just some ideas for the fiftieth birthday.
(24:01):
But I'm gonna hand it over to you because it's
really your store.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Oh oh, well, thank you. I have a love of
Italy as you do, and I'd never been to Umbria,
and I was trying to find the perfect place to
do something very intimate with just my family, and then
also to do something a little bit more over the
top and ground with my friends. And I felt like
(24:25):
Umbria offered that like quiet countryside, and then Rome offered
the grandeur of like literally a living museum. But those
were two places in my mind. I feel like I
shared a lot of places though, Like I was thinking,
we just had sorted have this conversation, like is it
Palermo because that's where Victor's family is from.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The Palatina Chenesi, which is this like Shinwazari folly on
the edge of Palermo to Venice.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I think we talked about Venice.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yes, we went all over the mass and that's.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
That really speaks to like the chaos of my creative
brain a little bit. But it wasn't until you helped
me find the locations. And first and foremost you had
just Palazzo Talia, Yes, and it wasn't even open yet, right.
So for me, it's so funny because I'm this way
about like design and real estate too. Like recently people
(25:19):
are like, why did you move to Tribecca And I
was like, well, it wasn't Tribeca. It was just finding
the right place. So I until I found the right place,
I would have gone anywhere in Italy. I would have
gone outside of Italy. It was just finding the place
that was intimate enough to host friends without being this
grand hotel where everyone would get lost.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And also somewhere where a lot of people have done
things before, Like you want to show something new and
bring something like a different thing to your gigantic audience,
and also do something that spoke to you in a
special way. I love you know, part of the reason
I was like yes, and then we really got into
(25:59):
the planning and the execution around it. But I love
working with people who have a romantic sense and an
idea of what they want to do and then I
year of a place and then like pulling it together
with the reality.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Well you did that brilliantly because I wanted well it's true,
I wanted a grand room to host like forty guests,
and it needed to have that like palazzo grandeur, but
also delicious food and in a city that people from
New York can get to, like without having to travel
Like that was another thing, Like you couldn't get off
(26:34):
the plane and then had to like travel two to
three hours if you're only going for a long weekend.
So I you know, it really speaks to what you
are so brilliant.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
At and like thanks, I mean, I think also it
was like just on that point of you know, romance
and reality. It's not like I'm going to take you
to the reality of how we're going to do this. Actually,
what I find and the joy of it is when
you mix those two things, they become something actually more
romantic and special because you're you find the way to
(27:07):
put the spotlight on the best of the place, which
I think was so fun for us to do. We
had such a like collaboration that was amazing.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
And your team is incredible and Capital you know, bringing
Capital one into the fold was also you know incredible
because beyond having that exceptional experience for my fiftieth birthday
at Palazza Talia, we went back to Rome together with
Capital one a year later and you know, created this
beautiful experience for card holders and got to you know,
(27:39):
replicate going to the that. I mean, can we just
talk about like everybody says to me, like how did
you get into the Vatican, like privately, what is your
secret sauce about like you know, getting access to or
don't share too much because I.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Mean, you know what people can get you into the Vatican, right,
you can go like early hours and you know the
Catholic Church is looking to monetize, Yeah, monetize no, but
look they got a lot of pieces that they got
(28:15):
to restore and keep like gleaming like the Vatican Museum does.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
But you know, my.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Colleague Carlotta, who is a very special person who is
able to you know, she's what they're calling it to
the educata, very polite, knows how to navigate asking the
right question.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
She has like a very calm demeanor.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Ninja unbelievable, And I think this is the case, and
I am certain in various different like iterations, when you're
curious about something and respectful to anyone, whether it is
you know, the papal rooms or the fishermen, wherever that
might be, they always open up in the right way. Yes,
(29:05):
that was threading a needle and getting the Swiss Guard
to agree, not only after hours, but the real thing
that from our perspective, because I know you wanted to
take a photo because it's a special moment to It
was more than just visiting it as a tourist or
as someone interested in that. I know you wanted to
keep that memory. I think you think like I do
(29:27):
in photo moments, not just because of your work and
not just because of my work, but because it it
just affirms that that thing that you did, it kind
of imprints it it into your story.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And it triggers the memory for a lifetime and beyond.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, so Colorda, I still don't know exactly how she
got the Swiss Guard to allow them to do that.
But yeah, we were inside the Vatican, the Cisting chapel.
Oh yeah, sorry, we were inside the Cistine Chapel. Yeah,
we were allowed to take photos in the Vatican.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But the Vatican Museum. But inside the Cystine Chapel, we
were told you could not take any photos, and then
they said you're a li to take a photo. And
you know, I was up on the altar and I
was just like, somebody grab a camera. I mean, everybody
had their camera, yeah, but like everyone was told they couldn't.
So then it was all of a sudden, you know it.
Actually I won't say it distracted me, but I'm so happy.
(30:26):
Like then, all of a sudden, I was like seeing
it through the lens instead of seeing it for real.
So when we went back with Capital One, I didn't
take my phone. I was like, oh, I've got this already.
So the second time around, I just like took it
in and took in the emotion. That was a very
special experience. And also you know, there was like I
didn't know it was my first time also ever at
(30:46):
the Vatican, but there was like also so much Greek
history and like learning about like a fina that.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
The map hole, I mean that the map that is
absolute heaven.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
But talk about how I take inspiration from everything I
see when I travel. Red Porphyry is one of the
oldest Roman stones, and there is this like massive like
sculpture or structure as well as in the mosaic floors
that is red porphyry. And from there I dove down
the rabbit hole of discovery. And now in my Tribecca home,
(31:20):
like there are elements of red porphyry in my home.
So I feel like, you know, I can walk through
my home and know, you know, every place that I
saw and traveled to and it triggers a memory. And
that's how you create and build in a motive living home,
you know.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So yeah, it's funny. I just went again, but we
went with fifteen members of my family from age four
to eighty five. It's a very different experience when you're
cycling through with thousands of people, but you know, that's
what we were doing. And this trip actually was quite
special because it was basically thirty years to the day
(32:00):
since we went as a family.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Oh wow. Yeah, and so it was really special.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
And you know, my eldest brother passed away not long
after that, you know, he got diagnosed with cancer and
and well, and it was just interesting. I mean, I
don't mean to go to to far into it, but
one of the eldest boys is the same age. It
was really meaningful for my parents. But it's actually kind
of a it's a funny story. The littlest one who
(32:26):
is you know, like the team mascot. Let's say her
name is Joey.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
She's just a.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Very chill, you know, little perfect thing that you know,
you can throw around everywhere. And she marched around Rome
and wherever we were.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
The entire time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
But we went to the Vatican Museum and it was towards
the end of the trip. You know, when you're four
and this size, you're not seeing things. You're not that
of course, that interested basically your eye line with everyone's asses.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You know, yeah, you're just there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And this kid never complains about anything. She's kind of extraordinary.
And as we walked into the Sistine Chapel, this little
kid went boring, very boring. I was mortified, but I
had never seen anything like it, and it just killed us.
It cracked us up. And you know, they haven't traveled
(33:17):
much at all. It was a very special gift from
my parents to the whole family.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
And that trip to Umbria for my twenty five year
wedding anniversary. My brother had never left the country and
had always wanted to go to Italy, so it was
just you know, myself, Victor and Jivonn and then my
mom and my brother and my brother's wife. You know,
having this like beautiful experience in Umbria and giving them
(33:43):
that gift of travel was something that it was so
important to like all be together in this like beautifully
magical place and honor our marriage. I mean this is
probably too intimate, but my brother struggled with addiction and
he was unable to be at my wedding when I
got married twenty five years ago. So to have him
(34:05):
there for the renewal of the Vaalos and he's sober
now was really really special.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And we found a house which I don't know and
you know, it wasn't It wasn't a palazzo, just to
be clear. It's a little not little big house, but
not what you're thinking. It's not a castle on a hill.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It's a house that had a chapel in the house
from the thirteenth century.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, and in this pale yellow and violet and that
the photo of you, I have to say, is just
you take a good photo, exp but this one is absolutely.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
It was so special and also it was just like
you know, you think about your wedding. This wasn't my wedding,
but like it was wedding part too. And you know,
it's usually like somebody else is doing everything for you,
and this was just us. You know. It was like
me and my mom and my sister in law like
running around like lighting candles, like it was just like
(35:02):
the most like intimate and grand thing at the same time. Again,
it was just it was just perfect.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
The last thing I want to talk about in Rome
is palazza talia in this salah, this owl alamannamanya. You
created this table, I mean your you know that's a signature.
But just tell me a little bit about that table,
because I am still blown away that how you did that.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Thank you. Food and design. Where those two things intersect
is around the table, and around the table is where
I have found my passion, my community, just like you
found your secret sauce and your like special talents, like
you know you fused together with prior, like your love
(35:47):
of travel and writing and curation. It really was around
the table that gave me my love of noticing and
realizing the importance of all of the elements coming together.
It's not happenstance, It's not by accident. It has to
be the right lighting, it has to be the right
tones and the florals, and you have to draw inspiration
(36:07):
in the way I do anyway, I have to draw
inspiration from the culture itself. So it was like being
and I didn't really exactly know what was going to
happen on that table until I was in Rome and
I saw the colors at the Vatican and that porfurydinkyo.
I mean, you know, I went to the market and
saw the ridicicio was kind of bursting, and the artichoke was,
(36:29):
you know, in season, and the color of the red
porphyry at the Vatican, and I drew inspiration from all
the tones and colors and the markets and everything seasonally
that was happening, and just built this beautifully undulating cornucopia
of like flower and food and design. And it was
just the fusion of Rome coming to life on the table.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
One thing I like to do when with Rome, you
can you can travel through the basilicas the Church is
the kind of Catholic lens. You can go the art Caravaggio,
you can do ancient Rome. But I like to think
as well, and sometimes I say, you can also do gelato,
by the way, But I like to tell people to
travel through Rome through vegetables, because you get the art chokes,
(37:14):
you get the Puntarelli, which is kind of a bitter green,
you know, all those bitter greens, the chicories, like, there
is so much through that kind of Lazio, the region
of Rome where you can really pull from. This episode
of traveling through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital one
cardholders are passionate about unforgettable experiences. Together, we partner to
(37:34):
connect these curious travelers to world cultures through expert guided
journeys from the peaks of much Epachu to the grand
architecture of Vienna. These ones in a lifetime trips take
you somewhere truly off the beaten path. Through Capital one Entertainment,
eligible cardholders can book exclusive experiences and so much more,
all while earning elevated rewards. Savor cardholders earn eight percent
cash back and venture X earns five x miles. Thanks
(37:58):
to Capital One, your dream getaway is one step closer.
We're talking about the eternal city. Let's go to Paris,
which is, you know, the muse of so many for
a variety of reasons. But again, there's so many doorways
in I'd love to hear your take on it.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Well. Paris was the first place I ever traveled to
with my mom. My mom worked at American Airlines growing up,
so we used to do these like buddy passes where
we would like travel stand by. And Paris was the
first place I ever traveled to in Europe with my
mom at about twenty years old. And the reason we
(38:38):
went there is because I was trying to model, and
an agency in Paris like brought me there, and so
my very first experience was getting off well, I went
with my mom first and then I went back with
this modeling experience, and I was so so young and
(38:58):
so green to travel, and I remember like getting off
of the plane and like having me go straight to
this modeling agency and having them send me on all
these castings and having to figure out the metro system
with my luggage before I even like found my model apartment,
which by the way, was like this teeny tiny apartment
with a toilet which was a hole in the floor
(39:19):
in the hallway. I didn't grow up fancy.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
But not the bathroom in the Tribeca apartment on the
cover of a d currently.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
No, not at all. Yeah, it was just like this
hole in the ground. But that was my very first
experience with Paris, and kind of fast forward. We spent
our ten year wedding anniversary in Paris and it was
the first time I visited the Road Down Museum and
really was kind of smitten by culture like Parisian like
(39:50):
sculpture and culture and museum. It was really the first
time when I lived there as a model, I didn't
really go to a lot of the museums. I don't
know why I didn't appreciate it back then, maybe, but
more recently, when I bought this apartment in Tribeca and
really became so immersed and inspired by the Decca movement,
I really spent a lot of time in twenty twenty
(40:14):
three and twenty twenty four just educating myself and visiting
not only the museums, but also so many beautifully private homes,
like we did a photoshoot for Benny Ruggs in the
Augusta Peret Apartment. It was this most beautiful apartment building
that he designed the entire facade and interiors, but this
(40:36):
was his private apartment and it had these beautiful wood
paneled clad walls, which is very similar to my apartment
had this gorgeous deco kind of cove ceiling that was
like glimmering and white, but also very industrialist in that
you know, there were these beautiful columns that were poured
(40:57):
concrete that were met with this gorgeous like metal brass trim.
Like there was just this like coming together of so
many beautiful design elements that again, I've drawn so many
of the details from that experience in that apartment into
my apartment, like including all of the doorknobs when I
walked through the apartment building where center doorknobs at like
(41:20):
very low center doorknobs, and you know, now in my
home I have these beautiful center doorknobs, and I just
think that, you know, I have really used Paris, and
I actually brought an object today that i'd fart about that. Yeah,
being at the Paris flea market has been such an
education for me of you know, doing my own research
(41:41):
before I've gone to Paris, but then also I started
to better understand some of the greats in early twentieth century,
like Paul dupre Lafon, and in a similar way that
travel wasn't present like that design education wasn't really present.
So when I dive into a new movement in design,
I am just like lit up with curiosity and excitement
(42:03):
and I start to read everything, I start to educate
my eye. But then like being there and picking up
these objects. But Jan de nund Is, he did beautiful
lacquer work and metal work, and there's no way I
can ever afford one of his vessels or vases. But
in the Paris flee I found this vase which is
kind of it's probably like some sort of replica, but
(42:24):
it really represents like the Deco movement and craft. And
this was one of these It's metal, okay, but yeah,
it has this like beautiful patina and if you look
at it, it has this like gorgeous hammering detail and
has these geometric forms on it. And this was one
of the very first objects that I ever bought for
(42:45):
my apartment. But it just goes back to like everywhere
I go, I'm finding something that lives on in my
homes and is triggering memories of where I've been, and
it speaks to my love of travel and design and
self education.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
So it's through the kind of idea of travel. It's
so it's so clear that you take you know, you research.
You're a researcher, like for sure, I know that firsthand,
but you're also really open to the unexpected. I'm like
that way too. I've got Okay, this is what I'm after. Yeah,
(43:21):
I'm finding other pieces, but also I'm responding to this
in a way that I didn't think I would.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Well, you have to be able to kind of pivot
as well. We're talking about like that early twentieth century
design and that Art Deco movement. When I started to
study that period in design and also bought my apartment,
I just got flooded with this. This apartment reminds me
of Vienna. And I was like, huh, that's so strange.
I've never been to Vienna. Why with this apartment remind
(43:47):
me of it? Right? Right? You almost like have to
listen sometimes, of course.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
And that trip that I went to Paris. Oh, by
the way, that trip to Paris, I went by myself.
It wasn't a family trip, it wasn't with a friend.
It was just me going and giving myself license to
go explore and self educate. So I went to Paris,
and then I went to Vienna, and I just went
to understand the Viennese succession and understand craft. And one
(44:13):
of the things that I had no idea I was
going to be smitten by was like falling in love
with leaded glass, which started in Vienna at the mac
Museum and walking in and seeing this like beautiful grid
like pattern with this like beautiful craftmanship and metalwork and
hand blown glass, and I just became so smitten with it,
(44:36):
not really realizing that I had elements of it in
my apartment and I was planning on demolishing it. I
didn't appreciate its beauty. So, like, I guess what I'm
talking of is like sometimes there's like these hidden codes
and things that you see that is triggering something within you,
but you don't even realize it. And then I didn't
know that like craft and materiality of the twentieth century
(45:01):
is going to really be at the cornerstone of my
design renovation. But it became that from these trips to
Paris and Vienna.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I gave you this book, which I guess is like,
you know, one of the gospels of that era, findersec
But do you want me to tell you why? Aside from
the fact that we share a love of Vienna, and
this was a little bit in research for the Capital
One trip that we're doing together, which is like chapter
two of our travel Friendship collaboration. Yes, but the reason
(45:30):
I gave it to you without getting too cerebral or
Viennese intellectual. You know, it's about like an exhaustion with
the old world and an esthetic and an idea in
friction with something modern that's coming, and an anxiety about
being stuck in something else. And I just saw, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
I had you already read it.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, I had read it, but years and years ago,
when I was doing a story for Vogue Living, I
skimmed it, yeah, and then I read Yeah, it's dense,
but I kind of I did do more on it
when we were thinking about this particle trip, because everyone
(46:12):
says the most famous kitchen in America basically from the
previous house, you know, or the most pinterest da da
da da, And I'm not. I didn't want to talk
to you about that because it's an evolution. And what
I thought about was like this idea that there's an
exhaustion with the previous aesthetic they had, that there's an
anxiety about moving into the new thing. And I know
(46:34):
that this project that you've done was like a swing,
a challenge, like the biggest thing in many ways, and
you correct me if I'm wrong that you've you've done.
You know it was a big challenge, and that's the
thing of like moving to a new aesthetic and evolving.
And I that's why I wanted to give you.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
That thank you. And I really appreciate you kind of
seeing that at me and honoring or appreciating that, because yeah,
I was a big divergence, Like most people would have
never sold that townhouse, but I I needed. And it
also speaks to what we started this conversation about this
kind of this this drive, this need for newness and
(47:19):
you know, evolution. And I'm always trying to not reinvent
just for the sense of reinvention. I'm not doing it
to shock other people. I'm doing it for me. I'm
doing it because my curiosity always wants to change and evolve.
And every time I get to design something, if I
get to go on this journey of self discovery and
(47:40):
self education, like I am filled with so much excitement.
And you know that it is the research. I love
doing the research. And I was not a good student.
So like the fact that like I get off on
like diving into and reading and educating and understanding at
the core what the successionists were, why they were challenging
(48:03):
the status quo. And you know, I thought it was
really interesting that you are comparing me to that, and
it it felt really special.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well I think that, Yeah, I completely believe it. And
I think with this couple of one project as well,
you know, it's going to be sharing your our view
on it. And they're very They're very good to give
us a big canvas in which to explore that, I
should say, and backing in some experiences like doing an
(48:34):
after hours thing to the mac Museum where you I
hope I'm going to do a little reading of my
next new.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Book, Yeah, which is so it really is the unpacking
of the creative mind of going on this journey of
design for this particular apartment, and how travel helped inform
and made its way through an entirely new lens. You know,
I'll share so much about how the things that I
(49:00):
saw in Vienna and the stones I saw in Rome
and all the places that I've traveled, even you know,
going last year, I went to Kyoto for the first
time and you know, found this beautiful parchment and lacquer
work that then informed a furniture collection that I'm designing.
So it's really just about how both self education and
this apartment and travel coalice to like push me to
(49:24):
explore new ideas and new forms and new everything.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Will you ever think of yourself? I want to as
a teacher rather than a self educator.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I do love I'm not a gatekeeper. I love sharing,
I really and I think that it's because it took
me a really long time to find myself. You know,
it wasn't until my mid thirties that I really found
career and like any type of success, and the success
didn't even come until later. So I asked so many questions,
(49:55):
Like curiosity is the gift that I would wish on
everybody to just ask questions. If you don't understand something,
always like probe and ask and go to other people
who you admire and have them teach you. And I
think I've learned so much from other people that I
do have this. I always want to learn, but I
(50:16):
always want to push it back out into the world
and share, So there is like a teaching thing.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
And I think about curiosity is that it keeps you vital.
I read something recently that, you know, people say you've
got to practice daily gratitude, which of course is great,
or joy is the thing that will give you a
long life. But actually there's some kind of study and
I can't you know, I'm not going to reference it
(50:41):
because I saw it in passing that said or is
the thing that will keep you awaken alive in this world.
And I thought, well, all is curiosity. I mean, that's it.
That's the two things, and that childlike wonder or respect
for the beauty and difference of the world is honestly
for me, the thing ay that's interesting in my career,
(51:03):
but also I think the thing that keeps me like alive,
feeling everything that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
You know, I've said so many times that like my
greatest I've said this, but it comes off negatively, and
I don't mean for it to come off negatively, but
I've said so often that my greatest wound is my
lack of formal education in design. But I actually think
it's my greatest gift because it keeps me hungry, it
keeps that awe. You know, if I already knew about
(51:31):
the successionists in the art deco movement, like I wouldn't
have thrown myself into this discovery with such awe you know.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
You know, and this sounds I often say as well
Alice Water. So I used to work for you know,
it was several months in, let's say, and she had
the office Storager and I overheard her say in reference.
I think to me, you know what, naivety is powerful
when harnessed in the right way, and that's not a
(52:00):
negative thing, No, that's a powerful thing.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
And I also think, like astrology.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
One of the gifts that you got to overhear that.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Actually I took it as a wound that point. I
was like, well, I'm not naive if I've just lived
in Italy and you know, Australia is not the end
of the world. It's the fourteenth biggest economy and you
know I partied in Sydney. But actually it's not about
like your experience. I mean, it is about your experiences
as well, but it's also about your attitude to life
because it's also curiosity and if you lose that, I
(52:30):
think it's losing a powerful gift.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
So I'm aligned with you.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
A little bit because everyone would like to know of course,
a few of Athena's first reactions things that she loves.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Of course, don't wanted to ask you.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Like a little bit, let's say a lightning round. What's
the place that you would always return I.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Will always return to Italy, any place in Italy, I
don't care where.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Where's the place that you would never go back?
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I really didn't understand Rio when I went, but it
just might have been that I wasn't with the right people.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Mm hmm. Where do you feel most at home in
the world?
Speaker 3 (53:07):
I feel most at home Innibifa.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Where's a hotel you could live in? Favorite hotel? Oh?
Speaker 3 (53:14):
Goodness, my favorite hotell. I love the soccer hotel in Vienna.
It's so different than like my life, right yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
I mean it's different from most people's lives. A restaurant
or taste that you wish you could experience again.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
I didn't grow up eating fish. Sorry, I know it.
This was supposed to be a lightning round, but being
in Greece for the first time and having like a
whole fish just with exceptional olive oil and lemon to
me like on a Greek island. Great museum, the mac
museum and shop or market I will go back to
the Roman vegetable market anytime day.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Where would you spend ideally, complete fantasy, drop everything a
part of the realities of your life, A weekend, a week,
a month.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
A year, a weekend. The first thing that came to
mind was going back to Vermont. Since my dad passed,
I haven't been back, so I'd love to go to
Vermont for the weekend. I want to go back to
where we used to fish week I have never been
to Iceland, and I recently found out how close it is,
(54:28):
so yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Months.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
I want to go alone to India by myself.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
And a year. Well, I will go for multiple years
living in the countryside in Italy. I want to learn
how to speak Italian, so that's only going to happen
if I spend a year there.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Well, come and visit me in the line. Great, what
are you traveling through right now?
Speaker 3 (54:51):
I am traveling through growth and expansion and figuring out
what that looks like of retaining my purity and authenticity
and humility and also wanting to grow and scale all
with grace.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Amazing, Athena, this has been wonderful.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Such a great conversation. Thank you, friend,
Pushkin self taught is not a slight when it comes
to Athena Calderone. In fact, it might be the singular
quality that makes her so special. She's famously been called
the new Martha Stewart by the New York Times, and
the Brooklyn Brownstone she designed is the home that launched
a million pinterestpoorts. But knowing Athena is to know she
(00:36):
doesn't really think of herself as.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
An authority or even as an influencer.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Growing up in Long Island, she hit the nightlife of
New York early, where she met her husband DJ Victor
Calderone and they lived a life on tour. But her
curiosity was never confined backstage. It's in fact where her
aesthetic education began. So from discovering another side of Abitha,
being drawn in by Moroccan hospitality, renewing her roots in Rome,
and now embracing the evolution of her eye in Vienna,
(01:03):
Athena is one of those rare people that, despite her
beautiful life, she still manages to take us all on
the road. Here's my conversation with my collaborator and friend,
Athena Calderone. Welcome to traveling through This is really a
conversation for me about curiosity and curious people and how
(01:25):
travelers have shaped their life and their lens. We can
start anywhere, but I'd love to think about, like, what
is an earlier travel in your life that maybe kicked
things off.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Earlier travel wasn't really in my orbit at all. I
didn't grow up with travel. I think the only places
that we traveled to throughout my high school years was Vermont,
Like my dad would take me fishing every summer in
a freshwater lake called Lake Bomacine. And Vermont. We went
to Florida once, and we went to Puerto Rico once.
(01:59):
And besides that, I'd never really been on a plane.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, I didn't travel much when I was growing up.
We went on a trip like kind of Grizzwold's National Lampoons.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
European Vacation exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
When to Europe one time, which was very lucky and
kind of changed my life when I was ten, But
we stayed in youth Hostales. It was not kind of
a glamorous thing. And also I think, you know, there's
this thing about being Australian where it's just those distances.
So we traveled a bit, you know, to like beach
towns and things like that. But sure, you know, I
have like this theory and I would never change it
that if you traveled a lot as a child, sometimes
(02:36):
you don't have the appreciation, the appreciation but also this
romantic sense of the rest of the world and this
kind of inner urgent need to to go and do
those things. And I often I think about you as
having this inner urgent need around so many things, and
I think that's why you're so voracious.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think you're absolutely right. I think we both share that.
Certain Also, my lack of formal education as well as
my lack of travel and culture as a child, has
just made me like ripe for curiosity and like I
want it self educated. I want to understand more, I
want to see more, I want to learn more, and
it's just made me like really hungry to see as
(03:15):
much as possible. I'm also thinking back, we went camping
a lot. Every memory that I have of travel, even
though it was close by, was always it holds a
lot of emotion for me and an adventure for me.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I feel like the same way I was obsessed with
rock pools and finding little things in shells and staffish
like at the beach town that we went to, or
like exploring up a creek, which is a very Australian
kind of background. But I think it's like it doesn't
matter that you kind of went to the other side
of the planet as a child. It's if you have
(03:50):
that innate sense of curiosity, it just.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Sort of grows.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, you were telling me.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
A little bit about your Morocco trip, and I'd love
to talk to you a little bit more about that.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, for sure. Well, when I had my son, Jivonne Victor,
my husband was on the road a lot, so travel
coincided with marriage and family life, and we just took
jivon everywhere with us. And I also didn't have career
at the time, so I was just on the road
(04:21):
a lot with my husband and we would just begin
that's like really when travel began. But Morocco holds a
very amri Cash specifically holds a very special place in
my heart because I'd never been to Africa before, and
it wasn't even something that I had really researched, Like
I wasn't really at that point of my life where
(04:42):
I was like studying and researching before I traveled. I
was kind of just like up for seeing where we landed,
and you know what presented itself.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
What year did you go to Morocco?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Jeevon was probably around two, so it was two thousand
and five. And I'll just never forget, you know, walking
through the Medina to get to the Riad and it's
just utter chaos and sense sounds and you know, just
meandering like small little blocks, and I was like, where
are we going? What did I make the right choice?
(05:17):
You know, like it was just crazy for me to
think about. Like you opened these like beautiful wooden doors
and they're an oasis awaits and I just loved this
idea of this like intimate, small home where you have
these hosts that are legitimately like your hosts, like they
(05:40):
are cooking for you, and you know, there's this this
nucleus of family, which was really my nucleus at the time,
like my family was and still is my everything. But
I didn't I don't want to say that it's all
that I had, but like I didn't have a creative
outlet at the time, and I'm such a creative so
I really threw myself into my family and it was
(06:03):
the first time I was exploring, like you know, cooking
and hosting and designing just in my home, not p professionally,
so being in this riad and seeing these people so
graciously host and care for every drop of experience that
they were offering us. You know, Jivon, they invited Jevon
(06:26):
into the who was two years old, but they invited
him into the kitchen every night, and he would stand
up on a chair and he would cook with them.
And I'm getting emotional because like they were communicating with
this two year old and not speaking the same language,
and they were offering him this experience that I could
(06:47):
never really offer him. Like he was understanding kind of
culture and culinary and like and love and care of
food and family in a way that I could never
have offered him otherwise. And I just remember being just
hit with so much emotion as I am right now
about how magical this experiences and so far from our
(07:11):
life and from our everyday existence.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I can feel that from you.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
The interesting thing about Morocco is it's not a restaurant
culture at all, maybe like to the exclusion of almost
any other culture. Like you get the best food in
those reads or in those homes, Like yeah, I always
tell people when they're going like eat at the read. Eat,
you know, try to get into people's homes because that's
where the best recipes are sure. And I take that
(07:36):
from Moroccan culture too, that it is that principle of
enveloping people.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yes, yes, I will never forget. When we entered the read,
it was really late at night, and Jivonne, who was
like a very kind of chill traveler and calm kid
who still to this day is like, he's not very outward.
He doesn't like I'm not gonna say, he doesn't emote
as a child. He wasn't super like verbal and like
(08:03):
crying and yelling, and I didn't even know what a
read was. And then I was there and saw how
quiet and small and intimate, and I was just like,
I don't want to be that parent that has this
kid that's like losing it. And I remember trying to
settle him and quiet him, and in that moment, I
felt like he was psychic and he was feeling energies
(08:26):
in the space, which is so I've never really like
talked about this before, but I felt like there was
like something that was like triggering him in that space.
But then on the polar opposite, like the next day,
we went out into the Medina, and I remember being
so overwhelmed by like everybody coming at you and trying
to get you to come into their shop and buy
(08:47):
something and negotiate with you. And I remember being like
completely overwhelmed, sincerely, and I remember Jeevon just like being there,
like looking taking it in calm as a cucumber, and
I was just like this kid man like he is
meant to travel.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I feel like Markesh has another thing all together now,
because you know, it's such a tour destination and of
course it still has its magic, but it's kind of
evolved as well. There are a lot of designers based
there now that are creating great things that are within
that Moroccan design vernacular, like Benny Ruggs, the people that
(09:24):
you did a collaboration with, and I think from a
design perspective, those tiles, those rugs, like the tuaregmats from
Mauritania or the Berber culture that can be translated into
homes that I have one in my house in Milan,
and I don't know, I think that now Morocco, well,
(09:44):
it's a successful example of using the craftsmanship from there
and contemporizing it, and that's not the case with a
lot of these places where traditional craft sadly becomes kind
of a museum piece or a tourist piece.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
When I wanted to talk with you about my experience
in Marrakesh, it was more so initially that I wanted
to talk about how it was the first place that
really pushed me from culinary point of view to explore
flavors outside of the Italian American vernacular that I grew
up with, as well as like my design aesthetic back
then for my homes was very like minimal and sleek
(10:22):
and like singular, like B and B Italia. And then
I went there and I just saw these like sun
drenched colors and things that had patina and chips, and
you know, I started to suddenly see how I was
like appreciating time worn colors and patina and history and craft.
(10:44):
I'm just remembering this right now, but I was in
the midst of designing an apartment that we had bought
in Dumbo, two apartments that we were combining, and it
was the first time that I really used travel as
like this catalyst to make sure that I'm pulling pieces
from these far flung places in the world. Like every
(11:04):
time I travel somewhere, I bring some sort of trinket home,
and that really sounded case traveler.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, you can't help that things, know for sure. I
mean I think, look, there's definitely a reason why so
many of those decorators not just go there and collect things.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But think about Tangier, right.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Some of the great decorators on the planet have these
houses there and then have export it to wherever they
have their kind of businesses, whether it's London or New York.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Call. Yeah, it's really at the center of like who
I am as a designer right now, and I think
that it started there. I didn't even think about the
whole Jivon read part of the story because the home
is this nucleus of my world still to this day,
and whether it inspired the culinary side of my career
or the design side of my career or the family
(11:54):
at the center of it, I really feel like that
reard and that experience is so in alignment with like
who I am today.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, it's such a place and a labyrinth to discover.
I remember going and doing something for Vogue Living actually
when I was kind of quite a naive travel writer actually,
which actually is to be honest, the best.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, the best.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
The best ones are the ones that are excited for
the first time, because then if you've got a good editor,
you can temper it a little bit. And I had
a very good editor, but I went sort of I
remember it vividly, and I have this image that we
shot and I could not tell you who it was
what realited is, but it's this extraordinary image of a
(12:38):
kitchen actually with the mosaic tiles on the walls, just
a little wood table with kind of ratan back, a
little window opening into a courtyard which had like this
kind of very straggly jacaranda. When the cooking is happening
and the sun goes down, the call to prayer is
like coming in through the roof and like it's getting
(12:59):
nighttime and the orange bossom is starting, you know, because
they often have an orange bossom in there. I know,
it's incredibly evocative. I wanted to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You mentioned Victor, your husband, and why you traveled so often,
and he, you know, is one of the great music
producers and DJs worked on, from what I understand, one
of the best albums of all time, which is.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right right of life, of course.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But yeah, I you know, I think that's kind of
why you traveled a lot to Abitha, Is that right?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Abitha we traveled to before we got married. We got
married in ninety nine. I feel like the first time
we went was maybe ninety eight. And so, yeah, he's
a DJ and he plays all around the world, and
it took us to you know, Singapore and Australia and
Japan in one trip, and then you know, Israel and
(13:52):
Italy and Ibiza and another. You know, like we were
just constantly or he was constantly on the road. And
you know, back then there were bigger budgets and you know,
they would fly both of us and Givonne until he
was under two, we didn't have to pay for a flight,
so we just we literally traveled the world together. But
backing up to our first time in Abiita, it was
(14:12):
like the start of our love courtship. And then did
you meet on the dance floor? We met at the
Tunnel in New York City. I was a bartender. I
just moved to New York. I was nineteen years old.
I had a shaved head because I was on a
septum ring. Because I was trying to be like a
bad girl. Because I was such like a Long Island
(14:35):
good girl who did like all the right things, you know,
like never like drank or like partied or anything. And
then I moved to New York City and I was like,
she's gonna become a bad girl. But it was like just.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Like on the you know, well, one of my favorite
parts of you actually is that you're still a potty
girl in ways.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, I do love a dance floor. I love it.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I've seen it, so.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you brought that up because
my roots as somebody, I mean talk about where I
saw culture for the first time. It was at the nightclub,
Like I was seeing fashion and art. I worked at
the Palladium and there was a Kenny Sharp room and
there was you know, murals by Keith Hering, and I
saw drag queens for the first time, and you know,
(15:21):
I just had like I was experienced so much newness
in my world. And I didn't have to travel very far,
thirty minutes from where I grew up, and all of
a sudden I found all this like art and culture
and fashion. But anyway, Victor and I met at the
nightclub and then we started his career kind of took
off after we met and then Ibiza happened. And what
(15:44):
I love so much about Ibiza is the very first
place that we ever traveled with Jivon as a baby,
he was under one years old, was Ibiza. So I
you know, it started with like Victor's career and our courtship,
and then it became where like a place where we
(16:04):
went as a young family also as he was djaying,
and then fast forward now the past, like you know,
we've been going for over twenty five years, but more
recently we've been spending a lot of time there and
it feels like this beautiful full circle moment where you know,
Jivonne's early years were there and now Jievon's a DJ
(16:26):
and he's a producer and he's on the dance floor
with us in the nightclubs. And last summer, Victor dj't
at Circle Loco, which is like one of the biggest
parties in a Biza, and it was like me and
Jivonne and some of Jivon's friends like all in the
DJ booth, like go like going for it, and it
(16:46):
just I was just like this, this is the talk
about the center of my world is my family. But
it's also nightlife and the fact that like now we
still do it as a family.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
It's that's rare.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
It's really rare. And also you know that Jevonn is
twenty three years old now and like he still wants
to be with us, he still wants to travel with us,
Like you know, it's it's really sweet. It's just really sweet.
And and Abita is so much more than just nightlife,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Because well there is like a very literal other side
of Abitha, yes, and another side of Abitha, Like how
do you understand the other side of it?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
We hike a lot when we go to Abiita, and
it's so funny. Sometimes they say a Biza and sometimes
they say Abita, but you know, I mean same same,
I'm just gonn of whatever comes out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
The nature is just like the rugged coastline is so incredible,
the exploration, the just like the raw and the wild.
The north side of the island is so special, which
is where we first started going with.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Oh really, yeah, so you're okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
We were there. The very first hotel we ever stayed
in was all the way north and then yeah, these
past few summers we do these really long sunset hikes
and it literally gives me life. Like those hikes, they're
so it's so beautiful because it pushes me outside of
my comfort zone. You have to be so present. It
forces me to like jump inside these like you know,
(18:17):
underwater caves, and I'm always doing it with my family
and with our dog and it just you're so Now.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's funny you say that because like I only got
to know the Balaric Islands and mostly Majorca in the
past few years, obviously, because it's no secret to Germans
or British people, and it's I mean, there's a certain
thing that happens there, but it's had this big kind
of renaissance. And part of the thing that I didn't
(18:45):
really realize about those islands is there kind of the
hub of European healers. Like I did not realize that
there is some energy there and those communities. Like I
did a watsu massage, which is one of those like
well pooled ones. It's like being in the womb. And
it's only because it was the only thing that was
(19:06):
on the SPA. Man, you and my girlfriends were going
to something. I'm not like the biggest you know, wellness
or spa person. But yeah, I'm up for everything. Yeah,
and it was kind of extraordinary. This woman was like
it was almost like a dula.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
You know. It was one of.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
The most intense experiences that I've had in that vein,
and I just didn't realize there was that energy there.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
There's a huge community of healers, especially in that north
side of Abitha, and there's a lot of like agriculture
and farms, which is why the food is so fantastic.
Like the north really has this like beautifully like rooted,
i don't know, healing energy. But then also Eshedra, which
is it's that big formation of rocks on the like
(19:52):
more western side of the island. But they say it's
one of the most like energetic and magnetic places. Makes
sense on Earth, people are like, oh, Ibiza either welcomes
you or it spits you out. And I'm just like, Okay,
I don't always like buy into the whole wu wu thing,
but there is something beautifully energetic about the island.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
The other thing I was I was thinking about is,
you know, I think sometimes for these places that actually
we returned to because we have memories or an experience
that replicates year to year. It's kind of that return place. Yeah,
and that's kind of special. I thought maybe as your
life evolved it would be different, but I think that's
really interesting.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I think I stopped like going out and with Victor
and like being a part of his nightlife world. And
I think it's also something that's at the core of
our marriage. Like we've always had really individual lives but
also like a unit, as you said, But when I
was trying to figure out career and I was a
young mom, I kind of stopped going out and it
(20:55):
more recently nightlife and dancing. You know. Now I have
this like big career and I have a lot of pressure,
and I have like a lot of time that I'm
like head down in a computer and like that part
of me, like that real free spirit where I get
to like quote unquote let my hair down and like
just be kind of anonymous and be with the people
(21:18):
that like pulled joy out of me, Like I needed
her back in my life, and I like made a
strategic choice to make sure I honored who I was
as a club goer, you know what I mean. Like
it's it's part of who I am, and it does
bring me a lot of joy. But I will say
if I can, if I let myself just go too
(21:39):
far into that night life part of Abitha, because you can,
that doesn't speak to who I am either. So in
a way, the island became this like mirror for me.
Like last year, I like was doing yoga three days
a week, like in these like up on the top
of a hill on a platform, like hearing the cicadas
and these like big pine trees, and like I really
taped back into that like yogi part of myself. I
(22:02):
was going to the market a lot, and I was,
you know, cooking NonStop, like in the house that we
rented to, like that part of myself that sometimes falls
to the waist side when I'm too busy in New
York City, Like I do feel like it Bizo really
allows me to focus on, like who the various parts
of who I am. I don't think design and like culture,
(22:22):
like it doesn't have like museums or like you know,
but it does.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's like it's it has it has a culture of
its own completely, you know. I think that when we're
talking about the unit and your like great love Victor,
that's kind of how we met, right I was just
thinking about it because you were planning.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Your I was planning my. Yeah, my twenty five year
wedding anniversary coincided with that's so interesting. Yeah, yeah, I
kind of hadn't realized that I got married at twenty five.
So then it made my fiftieth birthday and my twenty
five year wedding anniversary coincide. And in that moment, I
(23:01):
didn't do a big celebration for my fortieth birthday. We
actually went to Africa, we went on a safari. At
that point in my life, I didn't feel like celebrating
like four to oh, but five oh coinciding with twenty
five years of love. It just felt like a celebration
of love and life that needed to be like a
big event. And I and you were the first person
(23:24):
that I thought to reach out to to help me
navigate that.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
My great love, of course is Italy and one that
we share and you share as a background right as
a heritage, sure, and Victory as well, and Victor two
of well, of course Calderon Calderon.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
But that's how we first.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I think you messaged me and then we had a
little a little coffee, and we weren't going to work
together necessarily on the trip, because you know, I have
a very strong point of view, you have a very
strong point of view on things. But it's been a
really fun collaboration. And I guess it started as your
vow renewal and just some ideas for the fiftieth birthday.
(24:01):
But I'm gonna hand it over to you because it's
really your store.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Oh oh, well, thank you. I have a love of
Italy as you do, and I'd never been to Umbria,
and I was trying to find the perfect place to
do something very intimate with just my family, and then
also to do something a little bit more over the
top and ground with my friends. And I felt like
(24:25):
Umbria offered that like quiet countryside, and then Rome offered
the grandeur of like literally a living museum. But those
were two places in my mind. I feel like I
shared a lot of places though, Like I was thinking,
we just had sorted have this conversation, like is it
Palermo because that's where Victor's family is from.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The Palatina Chenesi, which is this like Shinwazari folly on
the edge of Palermo to Venice.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I think we talked about Venice.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yes, we went all over the mass and that's.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
That really speaks to like the chaos of my creative
brain a little bit. But it wasn't until you helped
me find the locations. And first and foremost you had
just Palazzo Talia, Yes, and it wasn't even open yet, right.
So for me, it's so funny because I'm this way
about like design and real estate too. Like recently people
(25:19):
are like, why did you move to Tribecca And I
was like, well, it wasn't Tribeca. It was just finding
the right place. So I until I found the right place,
I would have gone anywhere in Italy. I would have
gone outside of Italy. It was just finding the place
that was intimate enough to host friends without being this
grand hotel where everyone would get lost.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And also somewhere where a lot of people have done
things before, Like you want to show something new and
bring something like a different thing to your gigantic audience,
and also do something that spoke to you in a
special way. I love you know, part of the reason
I was like yes, and then we really got into
(25:59):
the planning and the execution around it. But I love
working with people who have a romantic sense and an
idea of what they want to do and then I
year of a place and then like pulling it together
with the reality.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Well you did that brilliantly because I wanted well it's true,
I wanted a grand room to host like forty guests,
and it needed to have that like palazzo grandeur, but
also delicious food and in a city that people from
New York can get to, like without having to travel
Like that was another thing, Like you couldn't get off
(26:34):
the plane and then had to like travel two to
three hours if you're only going for a long weekend.
So I you know, it really speaks to what you
are so brilliant.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
At and like thanks, I mean, I think also it
was like just on that point of you know, romance
and reality. It's not like I'm going to take you
to the reality of how we're going to do this. Actually,
what I find and the joy of it is when
you mix those two things, they become something actually more
romantic and special because you're you find the way to
(27:07):
put the spotlight on the best of the place, which
I think was so fun for us to do. We
had such a like collaboration that was amazing.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
And your team is incredible and Capital you know, bringing
Capital one into the fold was also you know incredible
because beyond having that exceptional experience for my fiftieth birthday
at Palazza Talia, we went back to Rome together with
Capital one a year later and you know, created this
beautiful experience for card holders and got to you know,
(27:39):
replicate going to the that. I mean, can we just
talk about like everybody says to me, like how did
you get into the Vatican, like privately, what is your
secret sauce about like you know, getting access to or
don't share too much because I.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Mean, you know what people can get you into the Vatican, right,
you can go like early hours and you know the
Catholic Church is looking to monetize, Yeah, monetize no, but
look they got a lot of pieces that they got
(28:15):
to restore and keep like gleaming like the Vatican Museum does.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
But you know, my.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Colleague Carlotta, who is a very special person who is
able to you know, she's what they're calling it to
the educata, very polite, knows how to navigate asking the
right question.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
She has like a very calm demeanor.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Ninja unbelievable, And I think this is the case, and
I am certain in various different like iterations, when you're
curious about something and respectful to anyone, whether it is
you know, the papal rooms or the fishermen, wherever that
might be, they always open up in the right way. Yes,
(29:05):
that was threading a needle and getting the Swiss Guard
to agree, not only after hours, but the real thing
that from our perspective, because I know you wanted to
take a photo because it's a special moment to It
was more than just visiting it as a tourist or
as someone interested in that. I know you wanted to
keep that memory. I think you think like I do
(29:27):
in photo moments, not just because of your work and
not just because of my work, but because it it
just affirms that that thing that you did, it kind
of imprints it it into your story.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And it triggers the memory for a lifetime and beyond.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, so Colorda, I still don't know exactly how she
got the Swiss Guard to allow them to do that.
But yeah, we were inside the Vatican, the Cisting chapel.
Oh yeah, sorry, we were inside the Cistine Chapel. Yeah,
we were allowed to take photos in the Vatican.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But the Vatican Museum. But inside the Cystine Chapel, we
were told you could not take any photos, and then
they said you're a li to take a photo. And
you know, I was up on the altar and I
was just like, somebody grab a camera. I mean, everybody
had their camera, yeah, but like everyone was told they couldn't.
So then it was all of a sudden, you know it.
Actually I won't say it distracted me, but I'm so happy.
(30:26):
Like then, all of a sudden, I was like seeing
it through the lens instead of seeing it for real.
So when we went back with Capital One, I didn't
take my phone. I was like, oh, I've got this already.
So the second time around, I just like took it
in and took in the emotion. That was a very
special experience. And also you know, there was like I
didn't know it was my first time also ever at
(30:46):
the Vatican, but there was like also so much Greek
history and like learning about like a fina that.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
The map hole, I mean that the map that is
absolute heaven.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
But talk about how I take inspiration from everything I
see when I travel. Red Porphyry is one of the
oldest Roman stones, and there is this like massive like
sculpture or structure as well as in the mosaic floors
that is red porphyry. And from there I dove down
the rabbit hole of discovery. And now in my Tribecca home,
(31:20):
like there are elements of red porphyry in my home.
So I feel like, you know, I can walk through
my home and know, you know, every place that I
saw and traveled to and it triggers a memory. And
that's how you create and build in a motive living home,
you know.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So yeah, it's funny. I just went again, but we
went with fifteen members of my family from age four
to eighty five. It's a very different experience when you're
cycling through with thousands of people, but you know, that's
what we were doing. And this trip actually was quite
special because it was basically thirty years to the day
(32:00):
since we went as a family.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Oh wow. Yeah, and so it was really special.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
And you know, my eldest brother passed away not long
after that, you know, he got diagnosed with cancer and
and well, and it was just interesting. I mean, I
don't mean to go to to far into it, but
one of the eldest boys is the same age. It
was really meaningful for my parents. But it's actually kind
of a it's a funny story. The littlest one who
(32:26):
is you know, like the team mascot. Let's say her
name is Joey.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
She's just a.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Very chill, you know, little perfect thing that you know,
you can throw around everywhere. And she marched around Rome
and wherever we were.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
The entire time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
But we went to the Vatican Museum and it was towards
the end of the trip. You know, when you're four
and this size, you're not seeing things. You're not that
of course, that interested basically your eye line with everyone's asses.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You know, yeah, you're just there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And this kid never complains about anything. She's kind of extraordinary.
And as we walked into the Sistine Chapel, this little
kid went boring, very boring. I was mortified, but I
had never seen anything like it, and it just killed us.
It cracked us up. And you know, they haven't traveled
(33:17):
much at all. It was a very special gift from
my parents to the whole family.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
And that trip to Umbria for my twenty five year
wedding anniversary. My brother had never left the country and
had always wanted to go to Italy, so it was
just you know, myself, Victor and Jivonn and then my
mom and my brother and my brother's wife. You know,
having this like beautiful experience in Umbria and giving them
(33:43):
that gift of travel was something that it was so
important to like all be together in this like beautifully
magical place and honor our marriage. I mean this is
probably too intimate, but my brother struggled with addiction and
he was unable to be at my wedding when I
got married twenty five years ago. So to have him
(34:05):
there for the renewal of the Vaalos and he's sober
now was really really special.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And we found a house which I don't know and
you know, it wasn't It wasn't a palazzo, just to
be clear. It's a little not little big house, but
not what you're thinking. It's not a castle on a hill.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It's a house that had a chapel in the house
from the thirteenth century.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, and in this pale yellow and violet and that
the photo of you, I have to say, is just
you take a good photo, exp but this one is absolutely.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
It was so special and also it was just like
you know, you think about your wedding. This wasn't my wedding,
but like it was wedding part too. And you know,
it's usually like somebody else is doing everything for you,
and this was just us. You know. It was like
me and my mom and my sister in law like
running around like lighting candles, like it was just like
(35:02):
the most like intimate and grand thing at the same time. Again,
it was just it was just perfect.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
The last thing I want to talk about in Rome
is palazza talia in this salah, this owl alamannamanya. You
created this table, I mean your you know that's a signature.
But just tell me a little bit about that table,
because I am still blown away that how you did that.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Thank you. Food and design. Where those two things intersect
is around the table, and around the table is where
I have found my passion, my community, just like you
found your secret sauce and your like special talents, like
you know you fused together with prior, like your love
(35:47):
of travel and writing and curation. It really was around
the table that gave me my love of noticing and
realizing the importance of all of the elements coming together.
It's not happenstance, It's not by accident. It has to
be the right lighting, it has to be the right
tones and the florals, and you have to draw inspiration
(36:07):
in the way I do anyway, I have to draw
inspiration from the culture itself. So it was like being
and I didn't really exactly know what was going to
happen on that table until I was in Rome and
I saw the colors at the Vatican and that porfurydinkyo.
I mean, you know, I went to the market and
saw the ridicicio was kind of bursting, and the artichoke was,
(36:29):
you know, in season, and the color of the red
porphyry at the Vatican, and I drew inspiration from all
the tones and colors and the markets and everything seasonally
that was happening, and just built this beautifully undulating cornucopia
of like flower and food and design. And it was
just the fusion of Rome coming to life on the table.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
One thing I like to do when with Rome, you
can you can travel through the basilicas the Church is
the kind of Catholic lens. You can go the art Caravaggio,
you can do ancient Rome. But I like to think
as well, and sometimes I say, you can also do gelato,
by the way, But I like to tell people to
travel through Rome through vegetables, because you get the art chokes,
(37:14):
you get the Puntarelli, which is kind of a bitter green,
you know, all those bitter greens, the chicories, like, there
is so much through that kind of Lazio, the region
of Rome where you can really pull from. This episode
of traveling through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital one
cardholders are passionate about unforgettable experiences. Together, we partner to
(37:34):
connect these curious travelers to world cultures through expert guided
journeys from the peaks of much Epachu to the grand
architecture of Vienna. These ones in a lifetime trips take
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(37:58):
to Capital One, your dream getaway is one step closer.
We're talking about the eternal city. Let's go to Paris,
which is, you know, the muse of so many for
a variety of reasons. But again, there's so many doorways
in I'd love to hear your take on it.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Well. Paris was the first place I ever traveled to
with my mom. My mom worked at American Airlines growing up,
so we used to do these like buddy passes where
we would like travel stand by. And Paris was the
first place I ever traveled to in Europe with my
mom at about twenty years old. And the reason we
(38:38):
went there is because I was trying to model, and
an agency in Paris like brought me there, and so
my very first experience was getting off well, I went
with my mom first and then I went back with
this modeling experience, and I was so so young and
(38:58):
so green to travel, and I remember like getting off
of the plane and like having me go straight to
this modeling agency and having them send me on all
these castings and having to figure out the metro system
with my luggage before I even like found my model apartment,
which by the way, was like this teeny tiny apartment
with a toilet which was a hole in the floor
(39:19):
in the hallway. I didn't grow up fancy.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
But not the bathroom in the Tribeca apartment on the
cover of a d currently.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
No, not at all. Yeah, it was just like this
hole in the ground. But that was my very first
experience with Paris, and kind of fast forward. We spent
our ten year wedding anniversary in Paris and it was
the first time I visited the Road Down Museum and
really was kind of smitten by culture like Parisian like
(39:50):
sculpture and culture and museum. It was really the first
time when I lived there as a model, I didn't
really go to a lot of the museums. I don't
know why I didn't appreciate it back then, maybe, but
more recently, when I bought this apartment in Tribeca and
really became so immersed and inspired by the Decca movement,
I really spent a lot of time in twenty twenty
(40:14):
three and twenty twenty four just educating myself and visiting
not only the museums, but also so many beautifully private homes,
like we did a photoshoot for Benny Ruggs in the
Augusta Peret Apartment. It was this most beautiful apartment building
that he designed the entire facade and interiors, but this
(40:36):
was his private apartment and it had these beautiful wood
paneled clad walls, which is very similar to my apartment
had this gorgeous deco kind of cove ceiling that was
like glimmering and white, but also very industrialist in that
you know, there were these beautiful columns that were poured
(40:57):
concrete that were met with this gorgeous like metal brass trim.
Like there was just this like coming together of so
many beautiful design elements that again, I've drawn so many
of the details from that experience in that apartment into
my apartment, like including all of the doorknobs when I
walked through the apartment building where center doorknobs at like
(41:20):
very low center doorknobs, and you know, now in my
home I have these beautiful center doorknobs, and I just
think that, you know, I have really used Paris, and
I actually brought an object today that i'd fart about that. Yeah,
being at the Paris flea market has been such an
education for me of you know, doing my own research
(41:41):
before I've gone to Paris, but then also I started
to better understand some of the greats in early twentieth century,
like Paul dupre Lafon, and in a similar way that
travel wasn't present like that design education wasn't really present.
So when I dive into a new movement in design,
I am just like lit up with curiosity and excitement
(42:03):
and I start to read everything, I start to educate
my eye. But then like being there and picking up
these objects. But Jan de nund Is, he did beautiful
lacquer work and metal work, and there's no way I
can ever afford one of his vessels or vases. But
in the Paris flee I found this vase which is
kind of it's probably like some sort of replica, but
(42:24):
it really represents like the Deco movement and craft. And
this was one of these It's metal, okay, but yeah,
it has this like beautiful patina and if you look
at it, it has this like gorgeous hammering detail and
has these geometric forms on it. And this was one
of the very first objects that I ever bought for
(42:45):
my apartment. But it just goes back to like everywhere
I go, I'm finding something that lives on in my
homes and is triggering memories of where I've been, and
it speaks to my love of travel and design and
self education.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
So it's through the kind of idea of travel. It's
so it's so clear that you take you know, you research.
You're a researcher, like for sure, I know that firsthand,
but you're also really open to the unexpected. I'm like
that way too. I've got Okay, this is what I'm after. Yeah,
(43:21):
I'm finding other pieces, but also I'm responding to this
in a way that I didn't think I would.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Well, you have to be able to kind of pivot
as well. We're talking about like that early twentieth century
design and that Art Deco movement. When I started to
study that period in design and also bought my apartment,
I just got flooded with this. This apartment reminds me
of Vienna. And I was like, huh, that's so strange.
I've never been to Vienna. Why with this apartment remind
(43:47):
me of it? Right? Right? You almost like have to
listen sometimes, of course.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
And that trip that I went to Paris. Oh, by
the way, that trip to Paris, I went by myself.
It wasn't a family trip, it wasn't with a friend.
It was just me going and giving myself license to
go explore and self educate. So I went to Paris,
and then I went to Vienna, and I just went
to understand the Viennese succession and understand craft. And one
(44:13):
of the things that I had no idea I was
going to be smitten by was like falling in love
with leaded glass, which started in Vienna at the mac
Museum and walking in and seeing this like beautiful grid
like pattern with this like beautiful craftmanship and metalwork and
hand blown glass, and I just became so smitten with it,
(44:36):
not really realizing that I had elements of it in
my apartment and I was planning on demolishing it. I
didn't appreciate its beauty. So, like, I guess what I'm
talking of is like sometimes there's like these hidden codes
and things that you see that is triggering something within you,
but you don't even realize it. And then I didn't
know that like craft and materiality of the twentieth century
(45:01):
is going to really be at the cornerstone of my
design renovation. But it became that from these trips to
Paris and Vienna.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I gave you this book, which I guess is like,
you know, one of the gospels of that era, findersec
But do you want me to tell you why? Aside from
the fact that we share a love of Vienna, and
this was a little bit in research for the Capital
One trip that we're doing together, which is like chapter
two of our travel Friendship collaboration. Yes, but the reason
(45:30):
I gave it to you without getting too cerebral or
Viennese intellectual. You know, it's about like an exhaustion with
the old world and an esthetic and an idea in
friction with something modern that's coming, and an anxiety about
being stuck in something else. And I just saw, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
I had you already read it.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, I had read it, but years and years ago,
when I was doing a story for Vogue Living, I
skimmed it, yeah, and then I read Yeah, it's dense,
but I kind of I did do more on it
when we were thinking about this particle trip, because everyone
(46:12):
says the most famous kitchen in America basically from the
previous house, you know, or the most pinterest da da
da da, And I'm not. I didn't want to talk
to you about that because it's an evolution. And what
I thought about was like this idea that there's an
exhaustion with the previous aesthetic they had, that there's an
anxiety about moving into the new thing. And I know
(46:34):
that this project that you've done was like a swing,
a challenge, like the biggest thing in many ways, and
you correct me if I'm wrong that you've you've done.
You know it was a big challenge, and that's the
thing of like moving to a new aesthetic and evolving.
And I that's why I wanted to give you.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
That thank you. And I really appreciate you kind of
seeing that at me and honoring or appreciating that, because yeah,
I was a big divergence, Like most people would have
never sold that townhouse, but I I needed. And it
also speaks to what we started this conversation about this
kind of this this drive, this need for newness and
(47:19):
you know, evolution. And I'm always trying to not reinvent
just for the sense of reinvention. I'm not doing it
to shock other people. I'm doing it for me. I'm
doing it because my curiosity always wants to change and evolve.
And every time I get to design something, if I
get to go on this journey of self discovery and
(47:40):
self education, like I am filled with so much excitement.
And you know that it is the research. I love
doing the research. And I was not a good student.
So like the fact that like I get off on
like diving into and reading and educating and understanding at
the core what the successionists were, why they were challenging
(48:03):
the status quo. And you know, I thought it was
really interesting that you are comparing me to that, and
it it felt really special.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well I think that, Yeah, I completely believe it. And
I think with this couple of one project as well,
you know, it's going to be sharing your our view
on it. And they're very They're very good to give
us a big canvas in which to explore that, I
should say, and backing in some experiences like doing an
(48:34):
after hours thing to the mac Museum where you I
hope I'm going to do a little reading of my
next new.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Book, Yeah, which is so it really is the unpacking
of the creative mind of going on this journey of
design for this particular apartment, and how travel helped inform
and made its way through an entirely new lens. You know,
I'll share so much about how the things that I
(49:00):
saw in Vienna and the stones I saw in Rome
and all the places that I've traveled, even you know,
going last year, I went to Kyoto for the first
time and you know, found this beautiful parchment and lacquer
work that then informed a furniture collection that I'm designing.
So it's really just about how both self education and
this apartment and travel coalice to like push me to
(49:24):
explore new ideas and new forms and new everything.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Will you ever think of yourself? I want to as
a teacher rather than a self educator.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I do love I'm not a gatekeeper. I love sharing,
I really and I think that it's because it took
me a really long time to find myself. You know,
it wasn't until my mid thirties that I really found
career and like any type of success, and the success
didn't even come until later. So I asked so many questions,
(49:55):
Like curiosity is the gift that I would wish on
everybody to just ask questions. If you don't understand something,
always like probe and ask and go to other people
who you admire and have them teach you. And I
think I've learned so much from other people that I
do have this. I always want to learn, but I
(50:16):
always want to push it back out into the world
and share, So there is like a teaching thing.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
And I think about curiosity is that it keeps you vital.
I read something recently that, you know, people say you've
got to practice daily gratitude, which of course is great,
or joy is the thing that will give you a
long life. But actually there's some kind of study and
I can't you know, I'm not going to reference it
(50:41):
because I saw it in passing that said or is
the thing that will keep you awaken alive in this world.
And I thought, well, all is curiosity. I mean, that's it.
That's the two things, and that childlike wonder or respect
for the beauty and difference of the world is honestly
for me, the thing ay that's interesting in my career,
(51:03):
but also I think the thing that keeps me like alive,
feeling everything that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
You know, I've said so many times that like my
greatest I've said this, but it comes off negatively, and
I don't mean for it to come off negatively, but
I've said so often that my greatest wound is my
lack of formal education in design. But I actually think
it's my greatest gift because it keeps me hungry, it
keeps that awe. You know, if I already knew about
(51:31):
the successionists in the art deco movement, like I wouldn't
have thrown myself into this discovery with such awe you know.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
You know, and this sounds I often say as well
Alice Water. So I used to work for you know,
it was several months in, let's say, and she had
the office Storager and I overheard her say in reference.
I think to me, you know what, naivety is powerful
when harnessed in the right way, and that's not a
(52:00):
negative thing, No, that's a powerful thing.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
And I also think, like astrology.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
One of the gifts that you got to overhear that.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Actually I took it as a wound that point. I
was like, well, I'm not naive if I've just lived
in Italy and you know, Australia is not the end
of the world. It's the fourteenth biggest economy and you
know I partied in Sydney. But actually it's not about
like your experience. I mean, it is about your experiences
as well, but it's also about your attitude to life
because it's also curiosity and if you lose that, I
(52:30):
think it's losing a powerful gift.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
So I'm aligned with you.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
A little bit because everyone would like to know of course,
a few of Athena's first reactions things that she loves.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Of course, don't wanted to ask you.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Like a little bit, let's say a lightning round. What's
the place that you would always return I.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Will always return to Italy, any place in Italy, I
don't care where.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Where's the place that you would never go back?
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I really didn't understand Rio when I went, but it
just might have been that I wasn't with the right people.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Mm hmm. Where do you feel most at home in
the world?
Speaker 3 (53:07):
I feel most at home Innibifa.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Where's a hotel you could live in? Favorite hotel? Oh?
Speaker 3 (53:14):
Goodness, my favorite hotell. I love the soccer hotel in Vienna.
It's so different than like my life, right yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
I mean it's different from most people's lives. A restaurant
or taste that you wish you could experience again.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
I didn't grow up eating fish. Sorry, I know it.
This was supposed to be a lightning round, but being
in Greece for the first time and having like a
whole fish just with exceptional olive oil and lemon to
me like on a Greek island. Great museum, the mac
museum and shop or market I will go back to
the Roman vegetable market anytime day.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Where would you spend ideally, complete fantasy, drop everything a
part of the realities of your life, A weekend, a week,
a month.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
A year, a weekend. The first thing that came to
mind was going back to Vermont. Since my dad passed,
I haven't been back, so I'd love to go to
Vermont for the weekend. I want to go back to
where we used to fish week I have never been
to Iceland, and I recently found out how close it is,
(54:28):
so yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Months.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
I want to go alone to India by myself.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
And a year. Well, I will go for multiple years
living in the countryside in Italy. I want to learn
how to speak Italian, so that's only going to happen
if I spend a year there.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Well, come and visit me in the line. Great, what
are you traveling through right now?
Speaker 3 (54:51):
I am traveling through growth and expansion and figuring out
what that looks like of retaining my purity and authenticity
and humility and also wanting to grow and scale all
with grace.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Amazing, Athena, this has been wonderful.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Such a great conversation. Thank you, friend,
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