April 27, 2026 • 26 mins
Buying something new can trigger a rush of dopamine, leading to a momentary boost in happiness. But the rush is fleeting, and over time, our possessions can end up weighing us down more than they lift us up.
As part of our series on spring cleaning your wellbeing, Dr. Laurie explores why material things so often fail to make us happier, and why experiences are usually a better investment in our long-term wellbeing. Along the way, she talks with psychologist Bruce Hood, researcher Amit Kumar, and writer Cait Flanders, who reflects on the psychological benefits of shifting from a maximalist lifestyle to a minimalist one.
If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s actually worth the time and effort to clean out your closet, this episode offers some answers.
Experts Mentioned:
- Bruce Hood, professor of developmental psychology in society at the University of Bristol
- Amit Kumar, assistant professor of marketing and psychology at the University of Texas at Austin
- Cait Flanders, author of The Year of Less and Adventures in Opting Out
- Richard Easterlin, economist and professor at the University of Southern California, originator of the Easterlin Paradox
Resources Mentioned:
- Possessed: Why We Want More Than We Need, by Bruce Hood (2019)
- The Year of Less: How I Stopped Shopping, Gave Away My Belongings, and Discovered Life Is Worth More Than Anything You Can Buy in a Store, by Cait Flanders (2018)
- “Does Economic Growth Improve the Human Lot? Some Empirical Evidence” by Richard A. Easterlin (Nations and Households in Economic Growth, 1974)
Related Episodes:
- "The Unhappy Millionaire"
- "Why Giving Money to Others Makes Us Happier"
- "You Can't Always Want What You Like"
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Hey, Happiness Lab listeners, Welcome back to our special
series on spring Cleaning Your Happiness. We're continuing our deep
dive into the Happiness Lab closets to find all the
show's well being boosting insights that you might have missed.
In today's episode Throwback, we'll tackle the happiness boost that
(00:37):
comes from literal spring cleaning, that is, decluttering all your
material stuff. In this episode, you'll meet Kate Flanders, a
writer who went deep into debt so she could buy
all the clothes, books, and gadgets she thought would make
her happier. But spoiler, buying all that stuff didn't work,
but there was something that did throwing it all away.
(00:58):
So get ready because in this classic Happiness Lab episode,
I You're intrepid host will tackle a spooky British barn
overflowing with movie monsters, and a swanky California convertible ride
with bad eighties music tunes. Also that I can teach
you about the joy of letting go. That's all coming
up when this throwback episode returns right after this quick
(01:18):
break pick up location sh pick up time twelve thirty p.
(01:49):
If there's one car you absolutely have to rent when
you go to San Francisco, it has to be compact
two four door Ford Focus or similar. I'm not really
a car person. Automatic transmission, Yes, air con Yes. My
regular ride is a slightly scruffy twenty eleven Nissan CenTra
dual air awesome. If you can't picture that in your head,
(02:13):
that's okay. I'm not sure anyone can. It's kind of
a dull silver color and relatively anonymous. Lost damage. We
were now child seat No. When I travel for work,
I usually rent the cheapest, boxiest and most ordinary car
on the lot. Prepig guess no, uh, confirm rental done.
(02:38):
But when my producer Ryan and I arrived at the
San Francisco airport last fall, we were in for a
bit of a surprise. The woman at the car rental
place apologized profusely they'd run out of normal, boxy compact
cars and intermediates and full sizes. Would it be okay,
she asked if instead of the car I booked, we
accepted at no extra cost, a bright red Mustang convertible.
(03:12):
We in our amazing car, took San Francisco by storm.
We crossed and recrossed the Golden Gate Bridge and soaked
up envious glances from teenage boys at crosswalks, and blasted
eighties sent pop on repeat the entire time. Instead of
adult trip into the city for work. Ryan and I
had the time of our lives, laughing like idiots and
making memories, all because of the car. That Mustang experience
(03:37):
got Ryan thinking he's always kind of hated my CenTra.
He wants me to get a newer, safer car, especially
since my Nissan does have a few bodywork issues. I
kind of hit a huge rock, so Ryan started texting
to make his case. Get a Mustang, Get a Mustang,
Get a Mustang. This carried on and on and on.
(04:02):
One text contained a single word, all caps with an
exclamation point, Mustang. I know, Ryan, only wan's what's best
for me. But I have a mostly working car now,
and the science suggests that giving in and buying a newer,
more expensive vehicle would have a surprising effect on my
well being. It might hurt my happiness rather than help it.
(04:25):
Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to
be happy. But what if our minds are wrong. What
if our minds are lying to us, leading us away
from what will really make us happy. The good news
is that understanding the science of the mind can point
us all back in the right direction. You're listening to
the Happiness Lab got doctor Laurie Santos.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I've had a lifelong fascination with the supernatural. I wrote
a book about that when my first book was about
why we Believe in the supernatural.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
This is Bruce Hood, a professor of psychology at the
University of Bristol in the UK. Like me, Bruce is
intrigued by some of the weirder, more irrational parts of
the human mind. But I didn't realize how personal that
interest was until I visited his house for the first time.
You see, Bruce lives in a lovely converted barn in
a quaint quiet part of the English countryside, and so
(05:21):
I was expecting the inside of his house to look
rather cozy. But that wasn't what I saw when I
first opened the door. Everywhere I looked there was blood,
claws and bangs, which is just the way Bruce likes it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I've loved horror movies and the genre from a very
early age. I became obsessional about buying vintage movie posters
with werewolves and vampires and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Bruce was able to actualize his childhood horror obsession once
he finally got a professor level salary. That was when
he discovered the miracle of online auctions.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I have over one hundred posts now, and there's no way.
I don't think anyone's going to a house small, not
unless you're very wealthy. I have got a house so
you can easily accommodate them all. So a lot of them.
I'm afraid it just stored away. But I have framed
most of them as many as I can, and they're
all over the walls.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
You have over one hundred of these?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I have over one hundred. Yeah, and they're like, you know,
meet by two minas big, So they're not little things.
They're big posters.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Why would anyone buy more movie posters than it could
possibly display? Bruce realized that it wasn't really the posters
he loved so much. It was the pursuit.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I would search on eBay and you can see the
bidding line and you can offer a bid, and then
you see someone's out bit you, and then you get frustrated.
He used to got real buzz and the thrill I'd
got it, and a complete desperation and disappointment of I'd
lost out to some other guy, And of course the
posts would turn up weeks later, and it was great
getting them, but nothing compared to the kind of the
exhilaration of winning.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
The auction that thrill we get from buying a new
prize on eBay is well understood by science. It's caused
by a neurotransmitter called dopamine. Whenever we buy something exciting,
the reward areas of our brain release a bunch of dopamine,
which not only triggers a pleasurable sensation, but also makes
it more likely that we'll repeat the behavior. Evolutionarily speaking,
(07:19):
dopamine is there to ensure that we keep doing all
the important things like eating and having sex. But nowadays
dopamine can just as easily make us chase after things
that we don't really need for our survival, like, for example,
more vintage horror movie posters than can actually fit in
your house. Of course, Bruce understands the science of dopamine.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Knowledge is not enough. You can know these things very
objectively and yet still be a victim to the same
sort of mechanisms. So at least I kind of understood
what was driving it, but I got to a point
where I literally could not buy or put up anymore.
And after that I kind of start to realize, well,
this overconsumption thing, this possession thing, is really interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Bruce began to study the science of why we like
to accumulate so much stuff. This research became the basis
of his recent book Possessed. Why we want more than
we need.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We buy for a number. There's a whole area of
evolutionary theory called signaling. The poster child for signaling, of course,
is the peacock. Why does it have such a silly tale?
It costs so much in terms of energy, it's not
very efficient, it makes them very vulnerable to attack, and
yet these animals have evolved this elaborate display because it
signals to potential mates that they have good genes. So,
(08:29):
rather than fighting or learning to run away or whatever,
they've developed these signaling behaviors.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Like peacocks strutting their stuff. We humans are naturally drawn
to shiny cars, fancy clothes, and other status symbols. These
things act as outward signs how awesome we are on
the inside, and so our species really likes to accumulate
stuff so much so that we've gone beyond just filling
our shelves and closets, an attics and garages. We fueled
(08:56):
a whole new growth industry self storage rentals.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I mean, there are more storage units than there are McDonald's.
It's just ridiculously a symptom of a culture which has
become obsessed with possessions. So that's why I call the
book possessed, because it's like this demon that is this
little ip in our mind telling us to buy things
and don't throw it away because it might be valuable
one day.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But is all this purchasing really making us happier at
least beyond the initial pursuit. I mean, it doesn't really
seem like it, which poses a bit of a paradox
since many scholars initially assumed that increased material wealth would
lead to happiness.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
The Acylin paradox was identified by Richard Eestelin back in
the early seventies, and he noted that if you look
at the gross national product of the US in particular,
as it's been rising, it doesn't seem to have a
corresponding change and increased happiness, and said, he said, that's
a paradox. We should be happier. You may have heard
the term retail therapy, and there's a sort of bit
of truth in that people do enjoy the process of shopping.
(09:56):
But just like me and my poster is that initial
buzz I get from doing it doesn't last very long.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
When the buzz of buying wears off. When that dobamine
rush in our brain subsides, those new possessions can make
us feel even sadder than we before.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
The trouble is is that as soon as you get
something with outstanding quality, it makes all your other possessions
look pretty rubbish. So this is called the Dedo effect,
after the French philosopher. He really wanted a dressing gown,
and he spent a lot of money on it, and
he really called it, and he got it, and he
loved it, and he looked around and everything else looked
a bit shabby. So then he realized he had to
go and change everything else in this household. And he
(10:32):
started to spend more money than he had and he
realized that, you know, in the past, he had control
of all his possessions, but as soon as he took
on board this new thing of high status that changed it,
it almost controlled him.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I experienced a hint of the d Terio effect. When
we rented that swanky Mustang, the valet at our hotel
did look at me and Ryan a little oddly, like
he was surprised that the people who dropped off that
kind of car had the crumpled clothes and crappy luggage
that we did. As we wrote the elevator to our rooms,
I thought back to my beat up Nissan with a
(11:06):
squeaky windshield, wipers and sticky coffee cup holders. None of
that had really bothered me when I drove it in
earlier that morning, But now my own car seemed well
pretty crappy. I mean, don't get me wrong, the Mustang
was super fun to ride around in, But if it
entered into my life on a more permanent basis, I
might fall prey to that d do effect even more.
(11:27):
I might wind up changing the other things in my
life to fit with the fact that I now owned
a swanky car. As the name of Bruce's book suggests,
my new ride might end up possessing me far more
than I possessed it. The good news is that there
is a way to enjoy the happiness boost that Ryan
and I got from the Mustang ride without ending up
on a treadmill of buying a new car every few years,
(11:49):
and we'll talk about that science backed strategy when the
Happiness Lab returns in a moment.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
So maybe they make us happy for a little while,
but over time we just stop deriving as much satisfaction
from them.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I wanted to find some evidence based strategies to help
me decide about this car situation, and so I decided
to call a world expert on happier purchasing.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm Amic Kumar. I'm an assistant professor of marketing and
psychology at the University of Texas at Austin.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Ahmed studies the way our minds mispredict the pleasure we
get from what we buy, and so I told him
about my car dilemma. Based on his research, he predicted
that any happiness boost I'd drive from buying that Mustang
wouldn't last much longer than the new car smell. If
you've listened to other episodes of The Happiness Lab, you
might know the reason why. A phenomenon that psychologists have
(12:59):
christened hedonic adaptation. We just get used to stuff far
quicker than we think.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
What seemed kind of new and exciting at first. That
excitement tends to fade. I guess the other thing is
that it's always there in front of you, so when
it malfunctions or if something goes wrong, you're just kind
of bothered by that.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
But there's a second reason that our possessions don't make
us as happy as we think that green eyed monster
is always with us.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
People are often kind of peeved when they find out
that someone else has a nicer TV than they do,
or if they have a fancier wardrobe. It can be
similarly annoying to find out that someone who has the
same thing that you do, like the same gadget that
you have, or something like that, paid substantially less for it.
So these sorts of destructive comparisons can stand in the
(13:49):
way of happiness.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So if I caved in and splurged on a new car,
not only would every scratch indent make me sadder, but
I'd also unwittingly enter an arms race with my friends
and neighbors comparing my purchase to whatever car they had
in their driveways. And even a new Mustang would look
crappy next to my colleagues brand new Tesla. But on
(14:12):
its research shows that there's an alternative kind of purchase
we can make that can bring us some lasting joy.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Money could make us happier if we made different decisions
or choices with what we did with it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
To get the most happiness bank for our buck, we
should make purchases that are experiential rather than material.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So experiential purchases are essentially something that you spend money
on that's an event or a series of events that
you live through. So basically it's money that you spend
on doing things like travel, vacations, dieting out, going to concerts,
sporting events.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
If you're anything like me, you might feel a bit
bad about spending more of your money on meals and trips.
It can feel a little frivolous.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
So in some sense they might seem fleeting, but in
a way this is actually a benefit of experiences compared
to possessions. So people do tend to habituate, to get
used to things and derive less value from them over time.
An experience that's already over that doesn't seem to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
But experiences don't just make us feel better after we
finish them. Experiential purchases can also make us happier than
material possessions, even before we get to enjoy them.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
One thing that's interesting about waiting is that waiting can
also sometimes feel good. So when it comes to material possessions,
it feels more like impatience or anxiety or frustration. But
with respect to experiential purchases, waiting's just a more positive state.
We tend to look forward to what's to come with
great excitement and delight. We look at restaurant menus, and
(15:44):
we go through our travel plans in advance. That tends
to feel good instead of bad.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
What Ama has found that the biggest reason experiences bring
us more joy is that they aren't normally a solitary activity.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So if your purchases are promoting social interaction, if you're
talking about the things that you've done, or if you're
doing them with other people, that's one reason they're going
to make you happier than some material items that you
might buy.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
And experiential purchases don't just keep us social while we're
doing them, they also let us connect with people afterwards too.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So if you go on a vacation somewhere, there's all
sorts of things that you can talk about, what you did,
what you saw, who you were with, what you ate,
there's just lots of directions to go. It's a bit
harder with material goods.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And sharing stories about things you've done, we're just reliving
the memories. Also has another happiness boosting effect.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It turns out that sort of generally speaking, reflecting on
experiential purchases inspires more gratitude than reflecting on material purchases,
So people are more grateful for what they've done than
for what they have. Part of the reason that this
is particularly interesting is because of what gratitude tends to predict.
(16:58):
So researchers have found that feeling grateful is associated with
a whole host of positive outcomes. So in some fun
studies we've done, for instance, we found that when people
think about their experiences rather than possessions they'vet they end
up being more generous to others. They end up treating
other people better as a result of reflecting on their
experiential purchases.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
All this goes to say, experiences, be they big or small,
they beat material purchases on literally every happiness metric am
It has studied. And yet we still can't seem to
break our habit of filling our closets and attics and
garages with so much stuff. So after the break, I'll
introduce you to a person who has taken this research
(17:40):
to heart, someone who became so weighted down by her
possessions that she decided to get rid of nearly all
of them and became a lot happier as a result.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
If I'm really honest, if I didn't love it or
use it, it was gone.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
The happiness lab will be right back.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
In some ways, I'm like, who was she who was
old school Kate? I would say that I was someone
who basically spent every penny that I earned.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I caught up with author and blogger Kate Flanders via zoom.
If her bedroom sounds a little echoey, it's because there's
virtually nothing in it. But it wasn't always like that.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
I definitely bought things whenever I wasn't feeling great. But
then when you fill your home with stuff that you
don't even use, it actually also feels worse. I would
always text my best friend Emma and tell her whatever
silly thing I was thinking of buying, Like Emma, I
think I need all new bedding, and she's like, but
do you do you need new betting? And I would
(19:00):
just have this idea in my head that somehow that
was the thing that was going to fix me that day,
Like if I somehow made my bedroom look different or whatever,
that that was somehow going to fix whatever was going on.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Kate's material purchases followed a pattern that's familiar to many
of us. She bought things in the hope that they
would make her a better, more interesting person. She filled
her small apartment with unread books and clothes, and then
added cameras, paints, brushes, and other art supplies.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I had purchased things thinking I would like to be
the kind of person who does X, Y or Z,
but I never ended up doing any of it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
At the time, Kay wasn't all that bothered by her
shopping habits, but she did want to fix her financial
situation by spending way more than she earned. She'd run
up over thirty thousand dollars in debt.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I decided that for a year I just wouldn't buy
anything unless it was absolutely essential. The things I could
buy were like groceries or put gas in my car
if I needed it. It had to be essential, otherwise
it just was off the list.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Kate's shopping band was just supposed to reduce her debt,
but it ended up teaching her a lot more about
happiness than she expected. As the flow of books and
clothes and a gazillion other material purchases was cut off,
Kay started to realize just how cluttered her life had been.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
I was kind of sick of my drawers always being full,
or my closet being full. Like I've always been someone
who only wears the same two or three outfits, So
why did I have a closet full of clothes or
a dresser full of clothes? It just didn't really make sense.
And so I think as I started decluttering, especially because
I was really aggressive in the beginning, I got rid
of something like fifty percent of my stuff in the
(20:30):
first six months. And I do remember after that just noticing,
like when I walked into a room, not only did
it feel like lighter is a good word for it,
but it also actually just felt more inviting.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Kate's year long shopping band and radical decluttering made her
realize that she didn't need as many material things as
she thought. Her project also led to a new book,
The Year of Less, How I stopped shopping, gave away
my belongings, and discovered life is worth more than anything
you can buy in a store. Kate had always wanted
to become a professional writer, but her financial situation made
(21:04):
that impossible. Having learned to live with less stuff, she
finally got the freedom she nened to dive into her
dream career. Her new found savings also gave her the
funds she needed for something else, the opportunity to experience
the wider world.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I didn't travel as a kid. We didn't do that,
but I always wanted to, Like I knew by the
time I was a teenager that that was something I
was interested in. I felt like I sort of started slow,
you know. I would book three nights away with a
friend somewhere, went away to a wedding to a friend that,
like I never would have been able to afford to
go to her wedding.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Since Kate can write from anywhere in the world, she
decided to continue traveling. She gave up her apartment and
now spends her time visiting friends and experiencing new countries
and cultures.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Traveling made sense to me. Like it. It made me
feel more like myself than anything else.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And just as am It's work would suggest, these new
experiential purchases have given Kate far more joyful memories than
any of her old material things.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I don't remember the majority of what I did cluttered
and got rid of, and even just being able to
recall things like the hotel that I stayed at for
my friend's wedding or the house party that I went
to with her and her friends, like the people I
met in the conversations that we had. And I think
I had never really stopped to save her moments like
that before, Like really, I can remember the experiences because
(22:28):
of how I felt or how like the air smelt
in certain cities, And I mean, I don't remember anything
like that of what I decluttered or even what I've
purchased in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
When she's not traveling, Kate uses a single room at
her dad's house as her base camp. That was where
she met me over zoom. It was pretty spartan. One
of the things that's cool about doing this interview is
I'm able on zoom to look into your room and
I see a like coat rack with a hat and
a coat, but maybe a chair, but like that's it.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yes, I have a painting either.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yes, I see the painting. It's a lovely painting.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Actually, it's done by a friend of mine, so yeah,
it was nice to hang that up.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Recently, Kate has around forty items of clothing like not
including socks and underwear, and a few pairs of shoes.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Hiking boots, kind of regular boots, running shoes, and sandals,
and that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Having once been possessed by her material purchases, Kate has
now broken free. Now the few things Kate does have
all sort of a purpose or have an important meaning.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
One of the things that I kept was my desk,
and that's because I built it with my dad. You
just have more appreciation in general for the things. I
think that you understand where they came from.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
It also seems like you're keeping material objects that also
have this feature of they were experiences for you. They
were memories for you too, right Like the desk is
a memory that you have with your dad, and so
it winds up.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Totally being special in essense. That is something I can't
really imagine I would ever get rid of.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Kate's onto something really important here. The material possessions we
do love are usually imbued with a certain experiential joy.
It got me thinking back to what amic Kumar had
explained when we chatted before.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
There's this sort of fuzzy boundary between what's an experience
and what's a possession. Take a bicycle, for example, that's
something that you keep in your possession, but it's literally
a vehicle for experiences. If you think about it in
terms of its features, it's sort of specifications, it's going
to feel a little more possession y and it can
lead to some of these problems with comparison, for instance,
(24:31):
that we've talked about. But if you think about going
out on the trails, then all of a sudden, that
particular purchase might be something that inspires more happiness within
you as a result of construing it in terms of
its experiential nature.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
After talking with Kate and Ahmet, I'm more convinced than
ever that I don't need a new car. I also
realize that I can think of my beat up Nissan
in a different light. I can construe it as a
giver of new experiences, one that can connect me socially
with the people I really care about, and so do
(25:06):
your podcast listener. Welcome inside my beat up Nissan, which
has recently become less beat up than it used to
be since I did in fact, take Ryan's sage advice
and made some strategic Gatto body repairs. Thanks Ryan, making
this episode has given me some real gratitude for these
old wheels, and it's helped me reframe how I think
about my car. Generally, this Nissan is going to be
(25:29):
my doorway to new experiences. It's going to be the
car that takes me for nice meals with my husband
or on trips to see my old friends. And with
all that money I'll save from not buying a Mustang,
I'm hopefully I can invest in even more fun experiential
purchases in the future. I can pay for a cool
new yoga class online and enjoy the anticipation of a
(25:50):
fantastic future vacation, hopefully one that will involve traveling somewhere
warm and sunny. And maybe just maybe a small rental
car splurge too, because I might enjoy just a little
more muscle car fun sometime soon. Better
Pushkin. Hey, Happiness Lab listeners, Welcome back to our special
series on spring Cleaning Your Happiness. We're continuing our deep
dive into the Happiness Lab closets to find all the
show's well being boosting insights that you might have missed.
In today's episode Throwback, we'll tackle the happiness boost that
(00:37):
comes from literal spring cleaning, that is, decluttering all your
material stuff. In this episode, you'll meet Kate Flanders, a
writer who went deep into debt so she could buy
all the clothes, books, and gadgets she thought would make
her happier. But spoiler, buying all that stuff didn't work,
but there was something that did throwing it all away.
(00:58):
So get ready because in this classic Happiness Lab episode,
I You're intrepid host will tackle a spooky British barn
overflowing with movie monsters, and a swanky California convertible ride
with bad eighties music tunes. Also that I can teach
you about the joy of letting go. That's all coming
up when this throwback episode returns right after this quick
(01:18):
break pick up location sh pick up time twelve thirty p.
(01:49):
If there's one car you absolutely have to rent when
you go to San Francisco, it has to be compact
two four door Ford Focus or similar. I'm not really
a car person. Automatic transmission, Yes, air con Yes. My
regular ride is a slightly scruffy twenty eleven Nissan CenTra
dual air awesome. If you can't picture that in your head,
(02:13):
that's okay. I'm not sure anyone can. It's kind of
a dull silver color and relatively anonymous. Lost damage. We
were now child seat No. When I travel for work,
I usually rent the cheapest, boxiest and most ordinary car
on the lot. Prepig guess no, uh, confirm rental done.
(02:38):
But when my producer Ryan and I arrived at the
San Francisco airport last fall, we were in for a
bit of a surprise. The woman at the car rental
place apologized profusely they'd run out of normal, boxy compact
cars and intermediates and full sizes. Would it be okay,
she asked if instead of the car I booked, we
accepted at no extra cost, a bright red Mustang convertible.
(03:12):
We in our amazing car, took San Francisco by storm.
We crossed and recrossed the Golden Gate Bridge and soaked
up envious glances from teenage boys at crosswalks, and blasted
eighties sent pop on repeat the entire time. Instead of
adult trip into the city for work. Ryan and I
had the time of our lives, laughing like idiots and
making memories, all because of the car. That Mustang experience
(03:37):
got Ryan thinking he's always kind of hated my CenTra.
He wants me to get a newer, safer car, especially
since my Nissan does have a few bodywork issues. I
kind of hit a huge rock, so Ryan started texting
to make his case. Get a Mustang, Get a Mustang,
Get a Mustang. This carried on and on and on.
(04:02):
One text contained a single word, all caps with an
exclamation point, Mustang. I know, Ryan, only wan's what's best
for me. But I have a mostly working car now,
and the science suggests that giving in and buying a newer,
more expensive vehicle would have a surprising effect on my
well being. It might hurt my happiness rather than help it.
(04:25):
Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to
be happy. But what if our minds are wrong. What
if our minds are lying to us, leading us away
from what will really make us happy. The good news
is that understanding the science of the mind can point
us all back in the right direction. You're listening to
the Happiness Lab got doctor Laurie Santos.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I've had a lifelong fascination with the supernatural. I wrote
a book about that when my first book was about
why we Believe in the supernatural.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
This is Bruce Hood, a professor of psychology at the
University of Bristol in the UK. Like me, Bruce is
intrigued by some of the weirder, more irrational parts of
the human mind. But I didn't realize how personal that
interest was until I visited his house for the first time.
You see, Bruce lives in a lovely converted barn in
a quaint quiet part of the English countryside, and so
(05:21):
I was expecting the inside of his house to look
rather cozy. But that wasn't what I saw when I
first opened the door. Everywhere I looked there was blood,
claws and bangs, which is just the way Bruce likes it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I've loved horror movies and the genre from a very
early age. I became obsessional about buying vintage movie posters
with werewolves and vampires and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Bruce was able to actualize his childhood horror obsession once
he finally got a professor level salary. That was when
he discovered the miracle of online auctions.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I have over one hundred posts now, and there's no way.
I don't think anyone's going to a house small, not
unless you're very wealthy. I have got a house so
you can easily accommodate them all. So a lot of them.
I'm afraid it just stored away. But I have framed
most of them as many as I can, and they're
all over the walls.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
You have over one hundred of these?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I have over one hundred. Yeah, and they're like, you know,
meet by two minas big, So they're not little things.
They're big posters.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Why would anyone buy more movie posters than it could
possibly display? Bruce realized that it wasn't really the posters
he loved so much. It was the pursuit.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I would search on eBay and you can see the
bidding line and you can offer a bid, and then
you see someone's out bit you, and then you get frustrated.
He used to got real buzz and the thrill I'd
got it, and a complete desperation and disappointment of I'd
lost out to some other guy, And of course the
posts would turn up weeks later, and it was great
getting them, but nothing compared to the kind of the
exhilaration of winning.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
The auction that thrill we get from buying a new
prize on eBay is well understood by science. It's caused
by a neurotransmitter called dopamine. Whenever we buy something exciting,
the reward areas of our brain release a bunch of dopamine,
which not only triggers a pleasurable sensation, but also makes
it more likely that we'll repeat the behavior. Evolutionarily speaking,
(07:19):
dopamine is there to ensure that we keep doing all
the important things like eating and having sex. But nowadays
dopamine can just as easily make us chase after things
that we don't really need for our survival, like, for example,
more vintage horror movie posters than can actually fit in
your house. Of course, Bruce understands the science of dopamine.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Knowledge is not enough. You can know these things very
objectively and yet still be a victim to the same
sort of mechanisms. So at least I kind of understood
what was driving it, but I got to a point
where I literally could not buy or put up anymore.
And after that I kind of start to realize, well,
this overconsumption thing, this possession thing, is really interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Bruce began to study the science of why we like
to accumulate so much stuff. This research became the basis
of his recent book Possessed. Why we want more than
we need.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We buy for a number. There's a whole area of
evolutionary theory called signaling. The poster child for signaling, of course,
is the peacock. Why does it have such a silly tale?
It costs so much in terms of energy, it's not
very efficient, it makes them very vulnerable to attack, and
yet these animals have evolved this elaborate display because it
signals to potential mates that they have good genes. So,
(08:29):
rather than fighting or learning to run away or whatever,
they've developed these signaling behaviors.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Like peacocks strutting their stuff. We humans are naturally drawn
to shiny cars, fancy clothes, and other status symbols. These
things act as outward signs how awesome we are on
the inside, and so our species really likes to accumulate
stuff so much so that we've gone beyond just filling
our shelves and closets, an attics and garages. We fueled
(08:56):
a whole new growth industry self storage rentals.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I mean, there are more storage units than there are McDonald's.
It's just ridiculously a symptom of a culture which has
become obsessed with possessions. So that's why I call the
book possessed, because it's like this demon that is this
little ip in our mind telling us to buy things
and don't throw it away because it might be valuable
one day.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But is all this purchasing really making us happier at
least beyond the initial pursuit. I mean, it doesn't really
seem like it, which poses a bit of a paradox
since many scholars initially assumed that increased material wealth would
lead to happiness.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
The Acylin paradox was identified by Richard Eestelin back in
the early seventies, and he noted that if you look
at the gross national product of the US in particular,
as it's been rising, it doesn't seem to have a
corresponding change and increased happiness, and said, he said, that's
a paradox. We should be happier. You may have heard
the term retail therapy, and there's a sort of bit
of truth in that people do enjoy the process of shopping.
(09:56):
But just like me and my poster is that initial
buzz I get from doing it doesn't last very long.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
When the buzz of buying wears off. When that dobamine
rush in our brain subsides, those new possessions can make
us feel even sadder than we before.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
The trouble is is that as soon as you get
something with outstanding quality, it makes all your other possessions
look pretty rubbish. So this is called the Dedo effect,
after the French philosopher. He really wanted a dressing gown,
and he spent a lot of money on it, and
he really called it, and he got it, and he
loved it, and he looked around and everything else looked
a bit shabby. So then he realized he had to
go and change everything else in this household. And he
(10:32):
started to spend more money than he had and he
realized that, you know, in the past, he had control
of all his possessions, but as soon as he took
on board this new thing of high status that changed it,
it almost controlled him.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I experienced a hint of the d Terio effect. When
we rented that swanky Mustang, the valet at our hotel
did look at me and Ryan a little oddly, like
he was surprised that the people who dropped off that
kind of car had the crumpled clothes and crappy luggage
that we did. As we wrote the elevator to our rooms,
I thought back to my beat up Nissan with a
(11:06):
squeaky windshield, wipers and sticky coffee cup holders. None of
that had really bothered me when I drove it in
earlier that morning, But now my own car seemed well
pretty crappy. I mean, don't get me wrong, the Mustang
was super fun to ride around in, But if it
entered into my life on a more permanent basis, I
might fall prey to that d do effect even more.
(11:27):
I might wind up changing the other things in my
life to fit with the fact that I now owned
a swanky car. As the name of Bruce's book suggests,
my new ride might end up possessing me far more
than I possessed it. The good news is that there
is a way to enjoy the happiness boost that Ryan
and I got from the Mustang ride without ending up
on a treadmill of buying a new car every few years,
(11:49):
and we'll talk about that science backed strategy when the
Happiness Lab returns in a moment.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
So maybe they make us happy for a little while,
but over time we just stop deriving as much satisfaction
from them.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I wanted to find some evidence based strategies to help
me decide about this car situation, and so I decided
to call a world expert on happier purchasing.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm Amic Kumar. I'm an assistant professor of marketing and
psychology at the University of Texas at Austin.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Ahmed studies the way our minds mispredict the pleasure we
get from what we buy, and so I told him
about my car dilemma. Based on his research, he predicted
that any happiness boost I'd drive from buying that Mustang
wouldn't last much longer than the new car smell. If
you've listened to other episodes of The Happiness Lab, you
might know the reason why. A phenomenon that psychologists have
(12:59):
christened hedonic adaptation. We just get used to stuff far
quicker than we think.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
What seemed kind of new and exciting at first. That
excitement tends to fade. I guess the other thing is
that it's always there in front of you, so when
it malfunctions or if something goes wrong, you're just kind
of bothered by that.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
But there's a second reason that our possessions don't make
us as happy as we think that green eyed monster
is always with us.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
People are often kind of peeved when they find out
that someone else has a nicer TV than they do,
or if they have a fancier wardrobe. It can be
similarly annoying to find out that someone who has the
same thing that you do, like the same gadget that
you have, or something like that, paid substantially less for it.
So these sorts of destructive comparisons can stand in the
(13:49):
way of happiness.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So if I caved in and splurged on a new car,
not only would every scratch indent make me sadder, but
I'd also unwittingly enter an arms race with my friends
and neighbors comparing my purchase to whatever car they had
in their driveways. And even a new Mustang would look
crappy next to my colleagues brand new Tesla. But on
(14:12):
its research shows that there's an alternative kind of purchase
we can make that can bring us some lasting joy.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Money could make us happier if we made different decisions
or choices with what we did with it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
To get the most happiness bank for our buck, we
should make purchases that are experiential rather than material.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So experiential purchases are essentially something that you spend money
on that's an event or a series of events that
you live through. So basically it's money that you spend
on doing things like travel, vacations, dieting out, going to concerts,
sporting events.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
If you're anything like me, you might feel a bit
bad about spending more of your money on meals and trips.
It can feel a little frivolous.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
So in some sense they might seem fleeting, but in
a way this is actually a benefit of experiences compared
to possessions. So people do tend to habituate, to get
used to things and derive less value from them over time.
An experience that's already over that doesn't seem to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
But experiences don't just make us feel better after we
finish them. Experiential purchases can also make us happier than
material possessions, even before we get to enjoy them.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
One thing that's interesting about waiting is that waiting can
also sometimes feel good. So when it comes to material possessions,
it feels more like impatience or anxiety or frustration. But
with respect to experiential purchases, waiting's just a more positive state.
We tend to look forward to what's to come with
great excitement and delight. We look at restaurant menus, and
(15:44):
we go through our travel plans in advance. That tends
to feel good instead of bad.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
What Ama has found that the biggest reason experiences bring
us more joy is that they aren't normally a solitary activity.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So if your purchases are promoting social interaction, if you're
talking about the things that you've done, or if you're
doing them with other people, that's one reason they're going
to make you happier than some material items that you
might buy.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
And experiential purchases don't just keep us social while we're
doing them, they also let us connect with people afterwards too.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So if you go on a vacation somewhere, there's all
sorts of things that you can talk about, what you did,
what you saw, who you were with, what you ate,
there's just lots of directions to go. It's a bit
harder with material goods.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And sharing stories about things you've done, we're just reliving
the memories. Also has another happiness boosting effect.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It turns out that sort of generally speaking, reflecting on
experiential purchases inspires more gratitude than reflecting on material purchases,
So people are more grateful for what they've done than
for what they have. Part of the reason that this
is particularly interesting is because of what gratitude tends to predict.
(16:58):
So researchers have found that feeling grateful is associated with
a whole host of positive outcomes. So in some fun
studies we've done, for instance, we found that when people
think about their experiences rather than possessions they'vet they end
up being more generous to others. They end up treating
other people better as a result of reflecting on their
experiential purchases.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
All this goes to say, experiences, be they big or small,
they beat material purchases on literally every happiness metric am
It has studied. And yet we still can't seem to
break our habit of filling our closets and attics and
garages with so much stuff. So after the break, I'll
introduce you to a person who has taken this research
(17:40):
to heart, someone who became so weighted down by her
possessions that she decided to get rid of nearly all
of them and became a lot happier as a result.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
If I'm really honest, if I didn't love it or
use it, it was gone.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
The happiness lab will be right back.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
In some ways, I'm like, who was she who was
old school Kate? I would say that I was someone
who basically spent every penny that I earned.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I caught up with author and blogger Kate Flanders via zoom.
If her bedroom sounds a little echoey, it's because there's
virtually nothing in it. But it wasn't always like that.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
I definitely bought things whenever I wasn't feeling great. But
then when you fill your home with stuff that you
don't even use, it actually also feels worse. I would
always text my best friend Emma and tell her whatever
silly thing I was thinking of buying, Like Emma, I
think I need all new bedding, and she's like, but
do you do you need new betting? And I would
(19:00):
just have this idea in my head that somehow that
was the thing that was going to fix me that day,
Like if I somehow made my bedroom look different or whatever,
that that was somehow going to fix whatever was going on.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Kate's material purchases followed a pattern that's familiar to many
of us. She bought things in the hope that they
would make her a better, more interesting person. She filled
her small apartment with unread books and clothes, and then
added cameras, paints, brushes, and other art supplies.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I had purchased things thinking I would like to be
the kind of person who does X, Y or Z,
but I never ended up doing any of it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
At the time, Kay wasn't all that bothered by her
shopping habits, but she did want to fix her financial
situation by spending way more than she earned. She'd run
up over thirty thousand dollars in debt.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I decided that for a year I just wouldn't buy
anything unless it was absolutely essential. The things I could
buy were like groceries or put gas in my car
if I needed it. It had to be essential, otherwise
it just was off the list.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Kate's shopping band was just supposed to reduce her debt,
but it ended up teaching her a lot more about
happiness than she expected. As the flow of books and
clothes and a gazillion other material purchases was cut off,
Kay started to realize just how cluttered her life had been.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
I was kind of sick of my drawers always being full,
or my closet being full. Like I've always been someone
who only wears the same two or three outfits, So
why did I have a closet full of clothes or
a dresser full of clothes? It just didn't really make sense.
And so I think as I started decluttering, especially because
I was really aggressive in the beginning, I got rid
of something like fifty percent of my stuff in the
(20:30):
first six months. And I do remember after that just noticing,
like when I walked into a room, not only did
it feel like lighter is a good word for it,
but it also actually just felt more inviting.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Kate's year long shopping band and radical decluttering made her
realize that she didn't need as many material things as
she thought. Her project also led to a new book,
The Year of Less, How I stopped shopping, gave away
my belongings, and discovered life is worth more than anything
you can buy in a store. Kate had always wanted
to become a professional writer, but her financial situation made
(21:04):
that impossible. Having learned to live with less stuff, she
finally got the freedom she nened to dive into her
dream career. Her new found savings also gave her the
funds she needed for something else, the opportunity to experience
the wider world.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I didn't travel as a kid. We didn't do that,
but I always wanted to, Like I knew by the
time I was a teenager that that was something I
was interested in. I felt like I sort of started slow,
you know. I would book three nights away with a
friend somewhere, went away to a wedding to a friend that,
like I never would have been able to afford to
go to her wedding.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Since Kate can write from anywhere in the world, she
decided to continue traveling. She gave up her apartment and
now spends her time visiting friends and experiencing new countries
and cultures.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Traveling made sense to me. Like it. It made me
feel more like myself than anything else.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And just as am It's work would suggest, these new
experiential purchases have given Kate far more joyful memories than
any of her old material things.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I don't remember the majority of what I did cluttered
and got rid of, and even just being able to
recall things like the hotel that I stayed at for
my friend's wedding or the house party that I went
to with her and her friends, like the people I
met in the conversations that we had. And I think
I had never really stopped to save her moments like
that before, Like really, I can remember the experiences because
(22:28):
of how I felt or how like the air smelt
in certain cities, And I mean, I don't remember anything
like that of what I decluttered or even what I've
purchased in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
When she's not traveling, Kate uses a single room at
her dad's house as her base camp. That was where
she met me over zoom. It was pretty spartan. One
of the things that's cool about doing this interview is
I'm able on zoom to look into your room and
I see a like coat rack with a hat and
a coat, but maybe a chair, but like that's it.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yes, I have a painting either.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yes, I see the painting. It's a lovely painting.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Actually, it's done by a friend of mine, so yeah,
it was nice to hang that up.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Recently, Kate has around forty items of clothing like not
including socks and underwear, and a few pairs of shoes.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Hiking boots, kind of regular boots, running shoes, and sandals,
and that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Having once been possessed by her material purchases, Kate has
now broken free. Now the few things Kate does have
all sort of a purpose or have an important meaning.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
One of the things that I kept was my desk,
and that's because I built it with my dad. You
just have more appreciation in general for the things. I
think that you understand where they came from.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
It also seems like you're keeping material objects that also
have this feature of they were experiences for you. They
were memories for you too, right Like the desk is
a memory that you have with your dad, and so
it winds up.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Totally being special in essense. That is something I can't
really imagine I would ever get rid of.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Kate's onto something really important here. The material possessions we
do love are usually imbued with a certain experiential joy.
It got me thinking back to what amic Kumar had
explained when we chatted before.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
There's this sort of fuzzy boundary between what's an experience
and what's a possession. Take a bicycle, for example, that's
something that you keep in your possession, but it's literally
a vehicle for experiences. If you think about it in
terms of its features, it's sort of specifications, it's going
to feel a little more possession y and it can
lead to some of these problems with comparison, for instance,
(24:31):
that we've talked about. But if you think about going
out on the trails, then all of a sudden, that
particular purchase might be something that inspires more happiness within
you as a result of construing it in terms of
its experiential nature.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
After talking with Kate and Ahmet, I'm more convinced than
ever that I don't need a new car. I also
realize that I can think of my beat up Nissan
in a different light. I can construe it as a
giver of new experiences, one that can connect me socially
with the people I really care about, and so do
(25:06):
your podcast listener. Welcome inside my beat up Nissan, which
has recently become less beat up than it used to
be since I did in fact, take Ryan's sage advice
and made some strategic Gatto body repairs. Thanks Ryan, making
this episode has given me some real gratitude for these
old wheels, and it's helped me reframe how I think
about my car. Generally, this Nissan is going to be
(25:29):
my doorway to new experiences. It's going to be the
car that takes me for nice meals with my husband
or on trips to see my old friends. And with
all that money I'll save from not buying a Mustang,
I'm hopefully I can invest in even more fun experiential
purchases in the future. I can pay for a cool
new yoga class online and enjoy the anticipation of a
(25:50):
fantastic future vacation, hopefully one that will involve traveling somewhere
warm and sunny. And maybe just maybe a small rental
car splurge too, because I might enjoy just a little
more muscle car fun sometime soon. Better
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