February 23, 2026 • 53 mins
A reunion between two retired detectives brings new focus to the Aujay investigation, just as Hayley and Betsy find out about another tragedy in the Punchbowl area. When a woman and her father are shot dead in deputy Engels’ home, the fatalities should’ve prompted the sheriff’s department to take a harder look at the alleged dirty deputy. But, instead, the LASD tries to bury the matter and — just like in the Aujay case — the deaths are ruled suicides. Hayley and Betsy press the department for answers about these and other suspicious deaths that occurred in Engels’ jurisdiction.
Hear the full Valley of Shadows soundtrack here.
Binge the entire season of Valley of Shadows, ad-free, by subscribing to Pushkin+. Sign up on the Valley of Shadows show page on Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This series includes content that may not be suitable for
all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously, on Valley of Shadows, we.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Would get the door open through our informants and then
pass that information on the Larry and then he'd try
to put the homicide investigation together.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
He said that he received information that Ingles was a
dirty cop, and he assisted Tom with his mess sales
and his meth labs.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Certain major players were never touched by Deputy Ingles, and
that's how we came up with the name untouchables.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
The FBI has a tap on the phone deep days
launch from the hull to leave a message.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
At the tone, and I'll call you back with a
phone that's not my own.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
And they said, hey, Larry, were ordered to go out
here everything you get in the case.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
When I got fired, Larry called me.
Speaker 6 (01:13):
He goes, I'll be right there, just hanging there.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Him and I went into the Buffalo business together, and
you never do business with friends. Waiting didn't see eye
to eye, and he just split. And that was into that.
Speaker 7 (01:35):
The stories just kind of like wormed its way into
my brain to where as soon as I go to sleep,
I started dreaming about it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
One morning, after a year of reporting this story, Betsy
calls me not to game plan or figure out logistics,
just to talk.
Speaker 7 (01:57):
So, yeah, I'm like working twenty four hours day.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Pretty yeah, that's what it feels like.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
But I actually I had a dream last night and
you were in.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It, okay, And we were.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
In our favorite place, the Devil's Punchable, and we're like
jogging on its trails like we're ultra marathons or something,
and so basically a nightmare, okay, yes, a total nightmare.
Leading the pack is John Auja, and like we can
just see the back of his head and his backpack
(02:33):
that he ran with, and he rounds a corner and
we lose track of him and like keep running, keep running,
keep running, and can't we can't catch up. And then
as we're finishing the cores, coming back around to where
we started, there's no finish line, so it just starts over.
(02:55):
There's no end to it, like we're fucking Sissyphus rolling
the stone up the hill, but instead we're chasing after
this man.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I feel this so hard because I feel like if
we could just spend three more months reporting that you
have anything, could find that one person or that one
piece of evidence that ties it all together or like
verifiably disproves it so we can put it to bed.
(03:25):
But I mean, I think of like some of those
informants we've reached out to who have said, oh, yeah,
I'll talk to you guys and then ghost us, Like,
what if one of them changes their mind, maybe that
will be the key. Maybe all these Sheriff's Department people
who we've spoken with off the record, if they would
(03:47):
change their mind and decide to open up, the resolution
to this seems so close, But then it's just like unattainable.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Realizing it's just kind of this narrative that's kind of
on loop.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
The store unraveled in stages with help from our different guides.
There's Captain Mike Bower's mission to disprove the Sheriff's Department
suicide narrative, Homicide Detective Larry Brandenberg's murder investigation, and narco
Detective Darren Hagers fight to expose what he sees as
a cover up by the LASD. And now we find
(04:33):
ourselves in their shoes in that our lives have become
consumed by the auj case, a compulsive need to find
out what happened, and an inability to quite get there.
On a small scale, we understand what these retired detectives,
and of course Aujy's loved ones, have endured for decades,
(04:55):
the feeling of being trapped between two endings, one in
which the missing puzzle piece finally surfaces and another in
which it never does. When we first started reporting this story,
we set out to explore the claim that the La
County Sheriff's Department did a half assed investigation for its
(05:16):
missing deputy. Little did we know that would lead us
into a world of meth manufacturing, drug informants, outlaw biker gangs,
dirty cops, mythic monsters, a complicated layer cake of criminal investigations,
a heated courtroom battle, and possibly a large scale cover up.
(05:36):
We've assembled the information we've dug up into an account
of what might have happened, but the persistent uncertainty surrounding
the case makes it that much harder to walk away.
So we find ourselves stuck in a holding pattern looking
for answers, and then, out of the blue, Betsy gets
(06:00):
a voicemail from homicide detective Larry Brandenburg.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Hello, Betsy, just as Larry Brandenberg. If you give me
in Hagar's number, or give him my number if you're
not comfortable doing that. Kim and I were old friends.
We haven't been for years, but I think he's signed
him and I talked again.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's been more than a decade since Larry Brandenburg and
Darren Hager have seen each other. The two started their
Buffalo farm back in the early two thousands. After Hagar
was fired. They tended to hert a bison, made jerky,
and even opened a bar where they could sling buffalo burgers.
But after a few years, their business went south, as
(06:40):
did their friendship. The last time they saw each other
was when Brandenburg testified at Hager's trial in twenty eleven.
But then we show up and start asking questions that
forced the detectives to take another look at the case
that won't go away. So when Brandenburg asks for Hagar's number,
(07:03):
we give it to him and cross our fingers that
they make amends. Because this is one mute a triangle
of a story, and maybe, just maybe a much needed
reunion between old friends could help all of us find
our way out.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I'm Haley Fox, I'm Betsy Shepherd and this is Valley
of Shadows, Episode eight. The finish line. We're in the
(07:44):
car again on our way to Darren Hager's house. This
time it's the Chaperona Detective reunion.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
We know the history of these two guys. They have
been through the Ringer together.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And have a bond that specifically started over this case.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, we're like matchmakers.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
We're straight up. Yenta's here? Who is ya ya from?
On the roof? Matchmaker Baker, make me a match for
the match makers.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Brandonburg did end up calling Hagar, who was happy to
hear from him, and the two main plans to meet
up in person, so naturally we invited ourselves along for
the ride. We pull up to Hagar's house right before
Brandenburg gets there. Where how are you guys?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
See if it's a little cold, man good, I'll let you.
Let's help you.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
Did you dye your hair? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I did?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I thought it would look better.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Randonburg takes it in stride when Hagar talks shit about
his white head of hair.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, I guess it's been quite a while, has.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
He The band's back together?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So to you, I'm on in Hi morning.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
You remember the girl.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Right, Hagar and Brandenburg settle in exchanging their version of
pleasantries coffee.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Or whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'll have a cup.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Of fun, yeah, when you're ready, or something a little healthier.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
The two swap stories about their horseshoers, talk about what
they did on a recent snow day act, and bring
each other up to speed on their personal lives.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Hou's a family, everybody's good. Got a bunch of grandkids, now.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
No kidding.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
After disbanding their Buffalo operation, Hager got into cattle ranching
and Brandenburg stuck with law enforcement. He retired from the
LASD and now works for a small town police department,
consulting on homicides and cold cases. Which is really why
we're here. We love the warm and fuzzies of this
rekindled friendship, but we've come to discuss the AUJ case.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I had kind of let this thing go for years. Really,
I just gave up figure and these ta was killed
and and that they don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Brandenburg and Hager slipped back into their old dynamic and
start rehashing key evidence in the AUJ case, like the
discovery of Rick Carrol's meth lab just two miles from
the punch bowl and all of the informants who've implicated
Tom Hinkle, the Vogo Spikers, and Deputy Rick Angles in
John Aujay's disappearance.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
You've got the timeframe dust you here run shot. It
all fits. It's not rocket science at all. And this
wasn't a plan murder. This shit just happened. He was
in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
The men discuss how differently things would have shaken out
if the Department hadn't stopped Brandenburg from investigating Angles.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
They would have let me put the tracker on his car,
got all his bank records and phone records and all
those dope people. We would have had him dead. The
rights and I warrant would have produced all that evidence on.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Me, or it could have cleared down.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
And that was my premise.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
There are a number of loose ends in the auj case.
Nearly any detail could pan out to become the thing
that breaks it wide open, like this one, an internal
email written by Hagar's supervisor during Operation Silent Thunder. Randenburg's
never seen it, so we asked Hagar to read it aloud.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
The task force just obtained phone record for two years
ago at the time of Deputy Adj's disappearance. For several
days following the disappearance, Deputy Angles and Tom Hinkle made
numerous calls in the same pager.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I mean not a little. Wasn't that very troubling to anyone?
A deputy Sheriff's calling the same pager several times?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Is is no good that number Angles in Hinkle were paging.
Could have been the key that unlocked the case, but
it was never identified as far as we know, and
it's either been lost or buried over time. It's just
one of many things that slipped through the cracks when
the Sheriff's department stamped out the Auja investigation.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
What got these guys that cover so much stuff up
and to lie like they lied?
Speaker 6 (12:17):
I don't cover up Adjay.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I don't know because they weren't like that. Sheriff's Homicide
had this great reputation we did, and our word was gospel.
It was especially back in the end days.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Lasd Homicide appeared to turn a blind eye to Angle's
potential involvement in Auj's nineteen ninety eight disappearance, but eight
years later, when two people are shot and killed in
Deputy Angle's home with Angle's gun, it seems like the
department would have to finally investigate him.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
One of the things be going on, you guys, So
look up.
Speaker 8 (12:52):
What's the This is the autopsy for Jennifer Starrosley.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Okay, Jennifer Vori Starossley and her dad, Lee Vory's are
found dead at Rick Engle's house on September twenty third,
two thousand and six, just after three pm, when two
gunshots are fired, leaving the twenty seven year old woman
and her father with fatal gunshot wounds to the head.
(13:20):
Angles calls nine one one and a fleet of responders
to send on his home. There's cherries and berries everywhere, paramedics, LASD,
deputies and detectives, a coroner, and then it's all quietly
wrapped up. The two deaths are ruled suicides. The Sheriff's
(13:40):
Department issues no public statement on the incident. The few
details that do trickle out are inconsistent, so much so
that the local paper, the Antelope Valley Press, puts out
a story about it, explaining that although they don't usually
publish details about suicide, they're making an exception in this
case because these deaths occurred in a peace officer's home.
(14:03):
And there were conflicting accounts of what happened. According to
Rick Angles, Jennifer grabbed his thirty eight revolver and ran
into the bathroom, where she fatally shot herself, and then
Lee ran into the bathroom and shot himself after seeing
his daughter dead on the floor. But official reports call
(14:24):
into question some key details of Angle's account. And this
is the other reason we're here at Darren Hager's house
because we finally got our hands on the coroner's reports
for the two fatalities.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
What's the coroner's case number on that two thousand and
six zero seven three six y one.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
That's her.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Jennifer Vori Strassley was an elementary school teacher from Idaho
and had recently been struggling with postpartum depression. Lee Vori's
lived in California and had known Rick Engles and his
wife Lynn for over thirty years. Lee brought his daughter
to stay at the Angle's home near the punch Bowl
so Jennifer could recuperate out there. But that's not what happened.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Why does she have access to a gun?
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Here?
Speaker 6 (15:15):
King goes off dated again.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, that's negligence if nothing else.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Because if Jennifer was in such a bad way, why
would Angles leave the gun in a place where she
could grab it? And how did Lee wind up in
that bathroom?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I mean, if it was a righteous suicide, you wouldn't
let your best friend go see his daughter like that.
You just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Brandenburg has other questions like why was Lee's body moved
from the bathroom into the kitchen before investigators arrived, and
why did it take the investigators so long to bring
in the coroner.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
The thing is the hours. This happened at three corner
to get there at all, almost midnight, that's nine hours.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
I don't even know where to go. It's making my
stomach just I feel like throwing up.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Brandenburg says that when detectives are dispatched to the scene
of a death, they typically conduct their investigation and call
in the coroner when they're done. If the incident is
a clearcut suicide, this whole process happens pretty quickly, so
the nine hour gap is unusual, especially since there were
only two people on scene to interview Rick and Lynn Angles.
(16:27):
So the retired bulldog reasons that maybe homicide investigators weren't
totally sold on the suicide narrative at first, and as
we start looking closer at the coroner's reports, we find
more reason to question Rick Angle's account. Included in these
reports are two main documents. There's the investigator's narrative, written
(16:50):
by a coroner's investigator. It tells the story of the
events leading up to and surrounding the deaths. It's based
on information reported by responding LASD detectives. And then there's
the autopsy, which is the evaluation of the body post mortem.
It's done by a doctor, usually at the morgue, to
determine the official cause of death. Typically these two documents
(17:14):
are complementary. They work together to establish the big picture,
but in the Voris Jurasi case, these reports describe different
versions of the same event.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I've looked at a lot of dead people. I probably
investigated two hundred homicides in my career, and how many
suicides way more. This thing stinks, We should warn you.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
The details from these reports are pretty graphic, but they're
crucial for fact checking Angel's story. The investigator's narrative states
that Jennifer was killed by a through and through shot,
that the bullet entered through her mouth and exited the
base of her skull, a description that supports the conclusion
(18:01):
that she died by suicide.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
He assumed she shot herself in the mouth in this
entry wound is actually he's calling an exit Wound's not
because it's clearly an entry wool because the bullet's up
here in her skulls fracture.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
So basically NGOs goes, heye, they just shot themselves and
go oh, so it must be through the mouth and
out the back of the neck.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
But according to the autopsy, based on a thoroughmedical analysis
of the body, the bullet that killed Jennifer actually entered
through the back of her head, near where the base
of her skull meets her neck. Brandenburg believes the autopsy
and the doctor who conducted it.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
This is the fucking pathologist. This is accurate. This is not.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
That pathologist recovered bullet fragments from Jennifer's head.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Well, it says the bullet was found on the brain. Yeah,
there's no exit, so it never came out.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So the coroner concludes that one inch gunshot wound found
at the base of Jennifer's skull. That was where the
bullet entered her body and then traveled up and got
lodged in her brain, but that kind of shot would
be hard to self inflict. Brandenburg holds his hand like
a makeshift gun, trying to figure out how Jennifer could
(19:22):
have pulled that off.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
This is so awkward.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
How are you going to get a trajectory to go up?
That's what I just did.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
How are you going to do that?
Speaker 6 (19:30):
That's a pretty good shot.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Nevertheless, a county medical examiner rules the death suicides. This
conclusion seems to be largely based on statements made by
Rick and Lynn Angles and the fact that gun residue
was found on the victim's hands. As soon as investigators
arrive at their home, Lynn and Rick Engles ask that
their hands be tested for gunshot residue or GSR.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
They both stated to everybody that got there, we.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Want to why would you say that?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I mean, I can understand a deputy going, oh man,
I'm gonna investigation this that and yeah, there am I'm nervous.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
I know how this thing works.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
But dere if it's a righteous suicide.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Debut, you're not just playing.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I know You're not even gonna think that way. You're gonna,
first of all, you're going to be very upset that
my lifelong friend daughter killed herself. Now my buddy killed
himself in my house with my fucking gun.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
To Brandenburg, it seems fishy that the angle's first concern
is the GSR test. Plus, he says a GSR test
doesn't prove innocence because gun residue can easily be washed off.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And of course they washed their fucking hands. But why
would you even make that statement. I think Ingles killed her?
Speaker 6 (20:50):
You think I think it if you get.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Secured, and then he had to kill the fucking dad too.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
We've spent a lot of time talking with Brandenburg and Hager,
discussing all sorts of violent and horrific crimes, but this
intensity in their voices kind of stopped me in my tracks.
And then I realize why they're so upset, because they
think these tragedies could have been avoided. If the Department
(21:19):
had just let them investigate Aujay's disappearance, this thing would.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Have been over a long time ago, and I think
Rick Ingles would have been in jail and these two
people might still be alive. No, I'm ready for a drink.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Dere good fucker, Betsy, and I leave Hager's house with
a pretty clear idea of what needs to happen next.
There's a few key phone calls left to make and
leads to chase down. But first we hear from someone
(21:55):
who knew not only Jennifer Vory strassly and leave Vory's,
but Rick Engles, and this person says there were problems
with the suicide story from the start.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
There are different theories of what happened the day that
Jennifer Vori Starosi and Lee Vori's died at Rick Engle's house.
There's the straightforward explanation that things unfolded exactly as Angles
and his wife say they did, but there's also a
long standing rumor that something untoward had gone on between
Angles and the young woman and that this relationship ended
(22:47):
in violence. We have to emphasize there's no proof of this,
but a conversation I have with someone who knows Angles
and the victims makes me wonder. So I just talked
to a family member of Lee Roy's and Jennifer Staiosley.
I'm on the phone with Haley bringing her up to
speed on what I heard from this family member who
(23:08):
didn't want to be named. They said to me that
their family very much believes that Angles murdered the two
of them and lied about the suicide. And that's not
just based on inconsistencies in his story, It's based on
them knowing Angles for a very long time. Lee Worries
(23:33):
had been close friends with Rick Engles for several decades
and had brought him into the family fold. So this
family member I spoke with it spent a lot of
time with Angles. They tell me about how when Angles
had his first fatal on duty shooting, he went out
to celebrate, and they tell me Angles had a volatile side.
(23:53):
So the family said that he was basically this like
hard ass country boy who was like always pulling guns
on people. And then this family member also said Lee
told them this story about going out horse riding with
Rick Engles, and on this particular trip, a ranger came
up and asked them to see their permit, and Rick
(24:17):
responded by pulling a gun on the ranger and telling
him that he could just kill the ranger right then
and there and no one would ever find out what.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Happened to him what.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
But the weirdest thing was that at the funeral they
were talking to Lynn Ingalls and ask what they had
all been doing earlier in the day the day Jennifer
and Lee died, and Lynn Ingle said that they had
spent the day at a gun range, which stuck out
(24:49):
to them because if this woman killed herself because she
was emotionally distraught, why would you take her to a
gun range. The gun range detail is just confusing. That's
not a place you'd take someone in the middle of
a mental health crisis. But it also undermines those gun
residue tests because of all four people went to the
(25:11):
gun range, then that would explain why the victims had
gun residue on their hands, And it also means that
Lynn and Rick Angles would have gun residue on their hands, unless,
of course, they washed it off. This information isn't coming
from an informant that the Sheriff's department can just dismiss
(25:31):
as tweaker talk. It's from a family member of the
two victims who says they know Rick Angles pretty well,
but they tell me they never pressed the sheriff's department
about the suicide determinations. They just let it lie. They
were scared to come forward because they felt like the
department had Rick Engles back records from the La County
(25:52):
Sheriff's department would go a long way in clarifying what
really happened, But again the LASD denied our public records request,
saying that disclosure of these records could jeopardize the potential
safety of the people involved. Well, two of those people
are dead and the other two may be responsible for
those deaths, So it seems to me that their concern
(26:16):
for safety is a little misplaced.
Speaker 9 (26:20):
Law enforcement wants to hide something, they call it a
suicide and close the case.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Auj's former boss, retired Captain Mike Bauer, thinks this is
all part of the department's strategy.
Speaker 9 (26:32):
It's too indecent for the public to learn, as it's
embarrassing to the family, and we don't release that information.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I mean, what are the odds that Angles would be
implicated in Aujay's alleged suicide and then years later be
caught in the middle of two more deaths, Two more
suicides that occurred in Angle's home with Angle's gun. John
Auja's disappearance left behind a void of information, but the
(27:00):
tragedy that befell Jennifer Vories, Derossi and Lee Ory's is
far less mysterious. There were bodies, there was a weapon,
a precise low case and a story told by two
people that doesn't entirely square with medical analysis. In spite
of all that possible evidence, and in spite of all
(27:20):
the criminal allegations surrounding Deputy Angles, the Sheriff's Department didn't
seem to dig in on any of this, and yet
again they gave Angles a pass. It's the job of
investigators to look for patterns in crime stats, criminal histories, forensics,
and yet the LSD refused to consider these violent deaths
(27:42):
and Angles home as anything more than an unfortunate coincidence.
But we can't help but wonder how many tragedies make
a pattern. According to Mike Bauer, there are even more
suspicious deaths linked to ric Angles, and those need to
be seriously investigated too.
Speaker 9 (28:02):
The goal was to find one missing person, John Ojay,
and then try to determine the true cause of his death,
and in the process I've found that this matters linked
to a number of other missing people and murders.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
There's Rodney Katziff. Remember he was the freelance investigator who
kicked up tips on the aj case and sent some
key informants Hager's away. Katzf went missing in two thousand
and one, and his car was found burned out near
the Angelis National Forest. Rick Angles was the deputy assigned
to the incident, but curiously he chose not to respond.
(28:44):
Just months before his disappearance, Katz had written a letter
to a friend talking about the AUJ case. He wrote
that Tom Hinkle and Rick Engles both killed the lost
cop d quote, I've got the witness who was there unquote.
And a few years before that, Engle shot and killed
(29:05):
a guy named Lyle Tyler. Engles had responded to a
stolen vehicle call at Tyler's trailer. When Tyler came to
the door holding a shotgun, Engles opened fire. The LSD
ruled it a justified shooting, but according to at least
one informant, Tyler knew too much about Engle's meth operation
(29:27):
and was terrified the deputy might come after him.
Speaker 9 (29:31):
This is a criminal enterprise centering on manufacture and distribution
of myth in Annel Valley, and in my opinion, continued
to run because the Sheriff'spartment did not put an end
to it.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Armed with as much reporting as possible, we decide it's
time to finish off our call list. To talk to
meth dealer Tom Hinkle and Deputy Rick Angles. I'd been
trading voicemails with Hinkle for a few weeks, but I
eventually get him on the phone. Afterwards, I called Betsy
to filler in, so you know how I've been playing
(30:12):
phone tag with old Tom Hinkle. Yeah?
Speaker 7 (30:16):
Did you actually did you finally get him?
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
My god? Yes?
Speaker 7 (30:19):
Does he still have.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That deep, gruff, menacing sounding Sam Elliot voice?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
One hundred percent. As soon as I picked up the
phone and heard his voice, I started sweating immediately. I
give Hinkle my normal spiel that we're working on a
story about something that happened in Pair Blossom in the
late nineties, and that his name has come up multiple times.
I provide no specifics, don't even say au Jay's name,
(30:45):
but he seems to know exactly what I'm referring to
and is quick to answer. He said, I don't have to.
I'm not gonna. I don't want to. I don't want
to talk to nobody about anything.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
Did he say it with that much?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
SaaS?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Oh more, SaaS.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's so surprising that that was his response.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Because you would expect someone that has.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
No involvement to say I wasn't involved. I don't know
what you're talking about, but.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's not what he said. We don't get new information
from Tom Hinkle, but our brief interaction matches what we've
heard about him. Just like when he talked to DEA
agent Kent Bailey. He doesn't deny knowledge of what happened
to Adjay. He just won't give it up. And now
(31:40):
the time's come for our other call.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
Okay, ready to do this?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I guess so?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Okay, who's going to make the call to rig Angles?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
We're torn over who's going to do the deed. We
want answers, We need answers, but the idea of confronting
Angles is nerve wracking given all the things people have
accused him of doing. So we settle the matter diplomatically,
rock paper scissors.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
It is the fairway, okay, ron two.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Paper wins every time, two out of three.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
No, Okay, I will do it, but I've got to
know if we only have time for one questions disappearents
all right, we got it?
Speaker 8 (32:29):
Yeah, three.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
My stomach's and knots. The phone's ringing, my hands starts sweating.
I get ready to leave a message, and then someone
answers the phone. Hi, I'm looking for a Rick.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I can tell Haley's nervous because her voice goes up
a whole octave. I overhear Rick's wife, Lynn angles on
the phone. She says, he's not home right now. Can
I help you?
Speaker 8 (33:06):
Yeah, my name's Haley Fox.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I'm a reporter act and I was trying to track
him down for a story we're working on. Is it
possible for me to leave a message?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
She says yes and asks what is this concerning.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
It's about a few different things back when he was
working as resident deputy in pair Blossom related to a
few things that were going on in the area, including
the John au j case. Yeah, thank you so much, Okay, bye,
She said, he may or may not want to talk
(33:38):
to you, but I'll pass along the message. Yeah, which frankly,
is more encouraging than I thought it would be. I
thought she was gonna be like, uh.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Hang out, yeah, okay, and now we.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Wait and now we wait.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
What do you think the chances are that who actually
talk to us?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Based on his performance in court, I would say not
very high.
Speaker 8 (34:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Giving him the answer questions kind of seemed like it
was pulling teeth.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
M The only real insight we have into Rick Engels's
personality is from those recorded interviews and court transcripts used
as exhibits in Hagar's lawsuit. What we glean from them
is that Angles is hard to read. On one hand,
he's evasive and kurt. He says he doesn't know what
(34:29):
he was doing on June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, the
day au j disappeared, but his deadpan responses are laced
with pisson vinegar. He seems to be flaunting that the
Sheriff's department did not thoroughly vet him as a suspect.
He says homicide detective Joe Holmes never checked his phone
records or searched his house like he claimed. He's got
(34:52):
a lot of nerve and we hope it might compel
him to talk to us, so we try him again.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
The FBI has a tap on the phone.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Watching the home, so we don't message at the telle
and I'll call you back with a phone that ain't
my own.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Angles has the same outgoing message he recorded decades earlier
when he was a suspect in multiple investigations. Even in retirement,
he still taunting authorities, teasing phone conversations, they never got
a chance to hear. I leave a message for Angles,
(35:42):
but he never calls back, so we never get a
chance to ask the money question. Were you involved in
John au Jay's disappearance. It's what the Sheriff's department should
have been asking from the start, but it seems like
maybe they just didn't want to know. And that's why
we do what we do next. We call the police
(36:06):
on the police. Haley Fox, I'm a reporter in Los
Angeles working on an investigative series about the La Tony
Sheriff's gefty who went missing out and alow.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
There's an incredible number of allegations against Ric Angles. The
number of people who are missing or murdered in his
orbit is suspicious. We've seen no hard evidence that Angles
is guilty of the things he's been accused of, but
there is a consistent pattern in the Sheriff's Department's treatment
of Angles, clearing him over and over again with little
(36:58):
to no investigative effort, and that's the biggest indication to
me that there is something to all this. We've reached
out to the Sheriff's department numerous times. We submit him
aultiple interview requests and public records requests, which they denied.
Then we wrote them one last time to give them
a chance to respond to claims about Auja's disappearance made
(37:20):
in this story, but the response we got back was
pretty underwhelming. Here's a condensed version of it. To date,
based on the information developed throughout the course of the investigation,
there is no evidence to substantiate foul play was a
factor in his disappearance. The department is dedicated to ensuring
(37:40):
that every investigative avenue is explored, and we encourage anyone
with information to contact the Homicide Bureau. Yeah, the LASD
is dedicated to every investigative avenue except for all the
ones that currently exist. So what happens when a law
enforcement agency fails to do its job or even refuses
(38:03):
to do it? Who has the power to step in
and force the issue?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Today?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
In Los Angeles County, there are two agencies that oversee
the Sheriff's Department. There's the Civilian Oversight Commission, which investigates
big picture issues like use of force and deputy misconduct,
typically focused on current LASD personnel, And then there's the
Office of the Inspector General or OIG. It's an independent
(38:32):
government agency formed to promote transparency and constitutional policing within
the Sheriff's Department. So we take our findings to the
OIG to see if they can help us. We tell
the OIG about the allegations that Rick Angles was involved
in Aujay's disappearance, that the Sheriff's department never properly investigated him,
and that there's a number of suspicious deaths surrounding Angles.
(38:57):
The Chief Deputy of the OIG writes back with this response. Currently,
the Office of the Inspector General is unable to conduct
meaningful investigations because we're not able to compel share department
personnel to.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Speak with us.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Of course, we are concerned if the Sheriff's Department covered
up the involvement of a sheriff's deputy and a homicide,
but the most we could do is report it, which
you have the power to do by reporting your investigation
in the media. Investigative reporting is often an effective means
to get the department to comment or even act. We
(39:34):
appreciate the pat on the back from the Inspector General,
but we're discouraged to learn that the oversight agency has
no real authority and therefore no real oversight because ultimately
cooperation from the Sheriff's Department is just voluntary. They can
and do simply refuse to share information with outsiders. So
(39:54):
this watchdog group is only as effective as the LASD
allows it to be, making law enforcement the gatekeeper to
its own secrets. That's what this story is ultimately about,
crime that happens in the absence of oversight. At first,
we thought the problem was just concentrated in the outskirts
(40:16):
of Los Angeles County, that the Sheriff's Department didn't do
enough to police the Antelope Valley or oversee its personnel
out there. But the truth is the problem is much
bigger because there's no actual accountability for the LA County
Sheriff's Department. They are the real untouchables. We feel frustrated, alarmed,
(40:42):
to be perfectly honest, a bit defeated, but we can't
say we weren't warned from the very beginning. So when
you first told us that you guys have stumbled into
a cluster of shit, what did you.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
Mean by that? Welcome aboard, Put your seat belt law on,
get ready for some interesting stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I check in with retired LASD Captain Mike Bauer, who
first produced us to the AJ case.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
People like you come and go and get interested in
the topic of the mysterious disappearances. It's all very interesting,
and the stuff that I found out has been beyond interesting.
It's been disturbing.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Nower just can't shake how his department handled things.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
They didn't do their job. They basically said, we've got
to put a lid on this because it's going the
wrong direction. It's going in the direction of that there's
drugs involved, and there's corruption involved, and there's murder involved. Okay,
we don't want to go in that direction. So it's
a can of crap that is a little broader than
(41:51):
just what happened to John r J. Where is he?
And once we find him, it's all over. No, once
we find him, it all starts.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Do you have any advice for digging ourselves out of it?
How do we get out of the cluster of shit?
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I'm painfully aware of the irony here of me asking
a man who's been investigating Auday's disappearance for over two
decades how the thing ends.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
The more I looked at it, the worst it got.
And as I kept going, I thought, you know, I
don't know if I can solve this.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Bauer says it for his own peace of mind. He's
had to come to terms with the fact that some
mysteries stay mysteries.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
I came to the realization in the last few years
my wife got cancer that couldn't go to la and
do any field of work at all because of my
wife's illness. And I said it myself, Okay, Now, if
you get used to the idea that I will never
solve this, and that's a hard that is a very
hard pill to swallow. I will never solve this. Well,
(43:03):
we'll see about that.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Mike Bouer lives with that unswer every day, but he's
still got some fight left in him. When he's not
tending to his ducks and other animals, he's plotting.
Speaker 5 (43:19):
Well, I have a strategy that I have not implemented,
but I may implement.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Debbie Auj gave Mike Bauer power of attorney over the
Jonathan A. J Estate, and as such he can sue
the Sheriff's Department on behalf of the estate.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
I would bring a civil lawsuit against the department for
damaging Auj's estate. Dambaging Auj's widow tambaging Auj's daughter with
this false information, containing and reporting that the department is
failing to investigate.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Meanwhile, homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg is considering getting his PI
license so he can do a private investigation into the
Auj case, hopefully with his buddy Darren Hager by his side.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
I mean, I don't know what else to do. Otherwise
we'll just take it to our grave.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
And Hagar spends his days on his ranch, herding cattle
and reliving a past life he can't seem to let
go of, not until the case is solved.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Just prove AJ killed himself or AJ was murdered. I
don't care either way. Make me look like a complete
asinine go nowhere, detective, And he committed suicide and I
just missed the whole ball of wax.
Speaker 6 (44:41):
Those are the only two things I want.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
John Auj's last day continues to play on loop in
their minds and ours too. So we make one last
trip to the Devil's punch Bowl, but this time we're
not chasing after anything. Staring out at that this overlook,
(45:12):
you know, and like seeing the mountains and the rocks,
and you just get the sense that it's like this immovable,
static thing.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I think it's really fitting that we're here because so
much of John Augy's story is like elusive and intangible
and feels impossible to hold on to. And the Devil's
Punch Bowl is like the one place where we can
actually go and feel some part of the story.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
It grounds it in a way.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
It grounds it. Yeah, like we can literally touch the
rocks and hear the trees, and that is really something
that's been hard to find in this story, any sort
of solid ground.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
We've come to park our story to bring it home.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I feel tired, is what I feel. I can't imagine
how tired Power.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
And Brandenburg an Acre and everybody.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I feel really tired to you. It's a lot to
take on, and working on this story. It's kind of
become the focal point of my life in a way
that hasn't been the most healthy. But it's the kind
of story that just draws you in and makes you
kind of obsessive because it feels like if you keep
(46:48):
chasing after the thing, the thing will reveal itself to you.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
I still think the thing might reveal itself to us
maybe twenty years from alvest.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Hailey is the eternal optimist. I'm the eternal pessimist, or realist,
as I like to call it. Together, we balance each
other out and capture the ambivalence of what our characters
live with each and every day. The sun is starting
to go down pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Now, I was gonna say, it's going to be dark
pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
In the Western movie version of this story, the good
guys get the bad guys and ride off into the sunset.
But in this story, there's no tidy distinction between the
good guys and the bad guys, and there's certainly no
tidy ending. So we just sit on a rocky overlook
and watch the sun go down as it dips behind
(47:52):
a mountain. The last rays of light reflect off the
rock formations as darkness pulls up from the bottom of
the punch bowl. The rocks look like fiery pillars floating
in a sea of black, something solid encircled by shadows.
And then the light fades from them too. All right,
(48:17):
the sun has set on the punch bowl.
Speaker 6 (48:21):
I think that's that's our cute.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, all right, And with that we pack up our
stuff and just walk away. And then, of course I
get a call from Haley, a few weeks later.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
I'm calling because I just heard back from the FBI.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Lol.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
It's actually a pretty good update.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Haley Fox, the Intrepid Reporter resubmitted our FBI request with
additional information from our investigation, and this time we don't
get their usual song and dance.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
They said they have four hundred and eighty five pages.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Joh way, dude, yes, are you serious?
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (49:18):
So they were investigating the audit disappearance.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
It seems like it.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
That's important confirmation because we know that the FBI would
not be investigating an isolated homicide case or disappearance.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
No, they don't get involved in anything unless there's an
element of corruption or multiple victims or something like that.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Mm hmmmm hm.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
So when do we get our hands on these files?
Speaker 1 (49:44):
That's the kicker. They said that it will take about
four years to process.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Four years? What are they doing copying these things by hands?
Speaker 7 (49:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Just what I thought. I was a They pulled me
back in.
Speaker 9 (50:06):
Terrible.
Speaker 6 (50:07):
That's so bad, oh boy.
Speaker 10 (50:10):
Okay, so to be continued to be continued, Okay, talk
to you later, Okay, love you, bye, love you, bye,
love you okay bye like bye for fucking reel, Get
off the phone.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Go away I did.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
If you have any information or tips related to the
disappearance of John Aujay, please call two one three two six'
two nine eight eight nine for. Email shadows At pushkin DOT.
Fm valley Of shadows is, reported written and produced by
Us Haley fox And Betsy. Sheppard our editor Is Diane.
(51:29):
Hotson our executive producers Are Jacob smith And Alexandra. Garreton
original music By Jake, Gorsky Ray, Lynch Mike jersich And Hayden.
Gardner sound designed By Jake, gorsky fact checking By Onica.
Robbins additional production support By Sonia gerwick and our show
(51:50):
art was designed By Sean carney And Betsy. Shepherd special
thanks To Nick white for show art. Photography special thanks
to a few more people At pushkin who Made valley
Of shadows Possible Greta, Cone Christina, Sullivan Eric, Sandler Morgan,
Rattner Amy, Haggerdorn Kira, Posey jordan, McMillan Jake, flanagan And Owen.
(52:16):
Miller additional thanks To Sonic Milk studio In, Cambria california
And Porsche Street studios In Los. Angeles and we want
to thank our families for cutting us a lot of
slack over this past. Year valley Of shadows is a
production Of Pushkin. Industries to find More pushkin, podcasts listen
(52:40):
on The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever.
Speaker 5 (52:43):
You listen to.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
Podcasts from type To. Fun We're haley And betsy
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This series includes content that may not be suitable for
all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously, on Valley of Shadows, we.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Would get the door open through our informants and then
pass that information on the Larry and then he'd try
to put the homicide investigation together.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
He said that he received information that Ingles was a
dirty cop, and he assisted Tom with his mess sales
and his meth labs.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Certain major players were never touched by Deputy Ingles, and
that's how we came up with the name untouchables.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
The FBI has a tap on the phone deep days
launch from the hull to leave a message.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
At the tone, and I'll call you back with a
phone that's not my own.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
And they said, hey, Larry, were ordered to go out
here everything you get in the case.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
When I got fired, Larry called me.
Speaker 6 (01:13):
He goes, I'll be right there, just hanging there.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Him and I went into the Buffalo business together, and
you never do business with friends. Waiting didn't see eye
to eye, and he just split. And that was into that.
Speaker 7 (01:35):
The stories just kind of like wormed its way into
my brain to where as soon as I go to sleep,
I started dreaming about it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
One morning, after a year of reporting this story, Betsy
calls me not to game plan or figure out logistics,
just to talk.
Speaker 7 (01:57):
So, yeah, I'm like working twenty four hours day.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Pretty yeah, that's what it feels like.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
But I actually I had a dream last night and
you were in.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It, okay, And we were.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
In our favorite place, the Devil's Punchable, and we're like
jogging on its trails like we're ultra marathons or something,
and so basically a nightmare, okay, yes, a total nightmare.
Leading the pack is John Auja, and like we can
just see the back of his head and his backpack
(02:33):
that he ran with, and he rounds a corner and
we lose track of him and like keep running, keep running,
keep running, and can't we can't catch up. And then
as we're finishing the cores, coming back around to where
we started, there's no finish line, so it just starts over.
(02:55):
There's no end to it, like we're fucking Sissyphus rolling
the stone up the hill, but instead we're chasing after
this man.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I feel this so hard because I feel like if
we could just spend three more months reporting that you
have anything, could find that one person or that one
piece of evidence that ties it all together or like
verifiably disproves it so we can put it to bed.
(03:25):
But I mean, I think of like some of those
informants we've reached out to who have said, oh, yeah,
I'll talk to you guys and then ghost us, Like,
what if one of them changes their mind, maybe that
will be the key. Maybe all these Sheriff's Department people
who we've spoken with off the record, if they would
(03:47):
change their mind and decide to open up, the resolution
to this seems so close, But then it's just like unattainable.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Realizing it's just kind of this narrative that's kind of
on loop.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
The store unraveled in stages with help from our different guides.
There's Captain Mike Bower's mission to disprove the Sheriff's Department
suicide narrative, Homicide Detective Larry Brandenberg's murder investigation, and narco
Detective Darren Hagers fight to expose what he sees as
a cover up by the LASD. And now we find
(04:33):
ourselves in their shoes in that our lives have become
consumed by the auj case, a compulsive need to find
out what happened, and an inability to quite get there.
On a small scale, we understand what these retired detectives,
and of course Aujy's loved ones, have endured for decades,
(04:55):
the feeling of being trapped between two endings, one in
which the missing puzzle piece finally surfaces and another in
which it never does. When we first started reporting this story,
we set out to explore the claim that the La
County Sheriff's Department did a half assed investigation for its
(05:16):
missing deputy. Little did we know that would lead us
into a world of meth manufacturing, drug informants, outlaw biker gangs,
dirty cops, mythic monsters, a complicated layer cake of criminal investigations,
a heated courtroom battle, and possibly a large scale cover up.
(05:36):
We've assembled the information we've dug up into an account
of what might have happened, but the persistent uncertainty surrounding
the case makes it that much harder to walk away.
So we find ourselves stuck in a holding pattern looking
for answers, and then, out of the blue, Betsy gets
(06:00):
a voicemail from homicide detective Larry Brandenburg.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Hello, Betsy, just as Larry Brandenberg. If you give me
in Hagar's number, or give him my number if you're
not comfortable doing that. Kim and I were old friends.
We haven't been for years, but I think he's signed
him and I talked again.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's been more than a decade since Larry Brandenburg and
Darren Hager have seen each other. The two started their
Buffalo farm back in the early two thousands. After Hagar
was fired. They tended to hert a bison, made jerky,
and even opened a bar where they could sling buffalo burgers.
But after a few years, their business went south, as
(06:40):
did their friendship. The last time they saw each other
was when Brandenburg testified at Hager's trial in twenty eleven.
But then we show up and start asking questions that
forced the detectives to take another look at the case
that won't go away. So when Brandenburg asks for Hagar's number,
(07:03):
we give it to him and cross our fingers that
they make amends. Because this is one mute a triangle
of a story, and maybe, just maybe a much needed
reunion between old friends could help all of us find
our way out.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I'm Haley Fox, I'm Betsy Shepherd and this is Valley
of Shadows, Episode eight. The finish line. We're in the
(07:44):
car again on our way to Darren Hager's house. This
time it's the Chaperona Detective reunion.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
We know the history of these two guys. They have
been through the Ringer together.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And have a bond that specifically started over this case.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, we're like matchmakers.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
We're straight up. Yenta's here? Who is ya ya from?
On the roof? Matchmaker Baker, make me a match for
the match makers.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Brandonburg did end up calling Hagar, who was happy to
hear from him, and the two main plans to meet
up in person, so naturally we invited ourselves along for
the ride. We pull up to Hagar's house right before
Brandenburg gets there. Where how are you guys?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
See if it's a little cold, man good, I'll let you.
Let's help you.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
Did you dye your hair? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I did?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I thought it would look better.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Randonburg takes it in stride when Hagar talks shit about
his white head of hair.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, I guess it's been quite a while, has.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
He The band's back together?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So to you, I'm on in Hi morning.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
You remember the girl.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Right, Hagar and Brandenburg settle in exchanging their version of
pleasantries coffee.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Or whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'll have a cup.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Of fun, yeah, when you're ready, or something a little healthier.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
The two swap stories about their horseshoers, talk about what
they did on a recent snow day act, and bring
each other up to speed on their personal lives.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Hou's a family, everybody's good. Got a bunch of grandkids, now.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
No kidding.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
After disbanding their Buffalo operation, Hager got into cattle ranching
and Brandenburg stuck with law enforcement. He retired from the
LASD and now works for a small town police department,
consulting on homicides and cold cases. Which is really why
we're here. We love the warm and fuzzies of this
rekindled friendship, but we've come to discuss the AUJ case.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I had kind of let this thing go for years. Really,
I just gave up figure and these ta was killed
and and that they don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Brandenburg and Hager slipped back into their old dynamic and
start rehashing key evidence in the AUJ case, like the
discovery of Rick Carrol's meth lab just two miles from
the punch bowl and all of the informants who've implicated
Tom Hinkle, the Vogo Spikers, and Deputy Rick Angles in
John Aujay's disappearance.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
You've got the timeframe dust you here run shot. It
all fits. It's not rocket science at all. And this
wasn't a plan murder. This shit just happened. He was
in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
The men discuss how differently things would have shaken out
if the Department hadn't stopped Brandenburg from investigating Angles.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
They would have let me put the tracker on his car,
got all his bank records and phone records and all
those dope people. We would have had him dead. The
rights and I warrant would have produced all that evidence on.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Me, or it could have cleared down.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
And that was my premise.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
There are a number of loose ends in the auj case.
Nearly any detail could pan out to become the thing
that breaks it wide open, like this one, an internal
email written by Hagar's supervisor during Operation Silent Thunder. Randenburg's
never seen it, so we asked Hagar to read it aloud.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
The task force just obtained phone record for two years
ago at the time of Deputy Adj's disappearance. For several
days following the disappearance, Deputy Angles and Tom Hinkle made
numerous calls in the same pager.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I mean not a little. Wasn't that very troubling to anyone?
A deputy Sheriff's calling the same pager several times?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Is is no good that number Angles in Hinkle were paging.
Could have been the key that unlocked the case, but
it was never identified as far as we know, and
it's either been lost or buried over time. It's just
one of many things that slipped through the cracks when
the Sheriff's department stamped out the Auja investigation.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
What got these guys that cover so much stuff up
and to lie like they lied?
Speaker 6 (12:17):
I don't cover up Adjay.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I don't know because they weren't like that. Sheriff's Homicide
had this great reputation we did, and our word was gospel.
It was especially back in the end days.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Lasd Homicide appeared to turn a blind eye to Angle's
potential involvement in Auj's nineteen ninety eight disappearance, but eight
years later, when two people are shot and killed in
Deputy Angle's home with Angle's gun, it seems like the
department would have to finally investigate him.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
One of the things be going on, you guys, So
look up.
Speaker 8 (12:52):
What's the This is the autopsy for Jennifer Starrosley.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Okay, Jennifer Vori Starossley and her dad, Lee Vory's are
found dead at Rick Engle's house on September twenty third,
two thousand and six, just after three pm, when two
gunshots are fired, leaving the twenty seven year old woman
and her father with fatal gunshot wounds to the head.
(13:20):
Angles calls nine one one and a fleet of responders
to send on his home. There's cherries and berries everywhere, paramedics, LASD,
deputies and detectives, a coroner, and then it's all quietly
wrapped up. The two deaths are ruled suicides. The Sheriff's
(13:40):
Department issues no public statement on the incident. The few
details that do trickle out are inconsistent, so much so
that the local paper, the Antelope Valley Press, puts out
a story about it, explaining that although they don't usually
publish details about suicide, they're making an exception in this
case because these deaths occurred in a peace officer's home.
(14:03):
And there were conflicting accounts of what happened. According to
Rick Angles, Jennifer grabbed his thirty eight revolver and ran
into the bathroom, where she fatally shot herself, and then
Lee ran into the bathroom and shot himself after seeing
his daughter dead on the floor. But official reports call
(14:24):
into question some key details of Angle's account. And this
is the other reason we're here at Darren Hager's house
because we finally got our hands on the coroner's reports
for the two fatalities.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
What's the coroner's case number on that two thousand and
six zero seven three six y one.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
That's her.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Jennifer Vori Strassley was an elementary school teacher from Idaho
and had recently been struggling with postpartum depression. Lee Vori's
lived in California and had known Rick Engles and his
wife Lynn for over thirty years. Lee brought his daughter
to stay at the Angle's home near the punch Bowl
so Jennifer could recuperate out there. But that's not what happened.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Why does she have access to a gun?
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Here?
Speaker 6 (15:15):
King goes off dated again.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, that's negligence if nothing else.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Because if Jennifer was in such a bad way, why
would Angles leave the gun in a place where she
could grab it? And how did Lee wind up in
that bathroom?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I mean, if it was a righteous suicide, you wouldn't
let your best friend go see his daughter like that.
You just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Brandenburg has other questions like why was Lee's body moved
from the bathroom into the kitchen before investigators arrived, and
why did it take the investigators so long to bring
in the coroner.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
The thing is the hours. This happened at three corner
to get there at all, almost midnight, that's nine hours.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
I don't even know where to go. It's making my
stomach just I feel like throwing up.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Brandenburg says that when detectives are dispatched to the scene
of a death, they typically conduct their investigation and call
in the coroner when they're done. If the incident is
a clearcut suicide, this whole process happens pretty quickly, so
the nine hour gap is unusual, especially since there were
only two people on scene to interview Rick and Lynn Angles.
(16:27):
So the retired bulldog reasons that maybe homicide investigators weren't
totally sold on the suicide narrative at first, and as
we start looking closer at the coroner's reports, we find
more reason to question Rick Angle's account. Included in these
reports are two main documents. There's the investigator's narrative, written
(16:50):
by a coroner's investigator. It tells the story of the
events leading up to and surrounding the deaths. It's based
on information reported by responding LASD detectives. And then there's
the autopsy, which is the evaluation of the body post mortem.
It's done by a doctor, usually at the morgue, to
determine the official cause of death. Typically these two documents
(17:14):
are complementary. They work together to establish the big picture,
but in the Voris Jurasi case, these reports describe different
versions of the same event.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I've looked at a lot of dead people. I probably
investigated two hundred homicides in my career, and how many
suicides way more. This thing stinks, We should warn you.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
The details from these reports are pretty graphic, but they're
crucial for fact checking Angel's story. The investigator's narrative states
that Jennifer was killed by a through and through shot,
that the bullet entered through her mouth and exited the
base of her skull, a description that supports the conclusion
(18:01):
that she died by suicide.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
He assumed she shot herself in the mouth in this
entry wound is actually he's calling an exit Wound's not
because it's clearly an entry wool because the bullet's up
here in her skulls fracture.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
So basically NGOs goes, heye, they just shot themselves and
go oh, so it must be through the mouth and
out the back of the neck.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
But according to the autopsy, based on a thoroughmedical analysis
of the body, the bullet that killed Jennifer actually entered
through the back of her head, near where the base
of her skull meets her neck. Brandenburg believes the autopsy
and the doctor who conducted it.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
This is the fucking pathologist. This is accurate. This is not.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
That pathologist recovered bullet fragments from Jennifer's head.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Well, it says the bullet was found on the brain. Yeah,
there's no exit, so it never came out.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So the coroner concludes that one inch gunshot wound found
at the base of Jennifer's skull. That was where the
bullet entered her body and then traveled up and got
lodged in her brain, but that kind of shot would
be hard to self inflict. Brandenburg holds his hand like
a makeshift gun, trying to figure out how Jennifer could
(19:22):
have pulled that off.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
This is so awkward.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
How are you going to get a trajectory to go up?
That's what I just did.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
How are you going to do that?
Speaker 6 (19:30):
That's a pretty good shot.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Nevertheless, a county medical examiner rules the death suicides. This
conclusion seems to be largely based on statements made by
Rick and Lynn Angles and the fact that gun residue
was found on the victim's hands. As soon as investigators
arrive at their home, Lynn and Rick Engles ask that
their hands be tested for gunshot residue or GSR.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
They both stated to everybody that got there, we.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Want to why would you say that?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I mean, I can understand a deputy going, oh man,
I'm gonna investigation this that and yeah, there am I'm nervous.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
I know how this thing works.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
But dere if it's a righteous suicide.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Debut, you're not just playing.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I know You're not even gonna think that way. You're gonna,
first of all, you're going to be very upset that
my lifelong friend daughter killed herself. Now my buddy killed
himself in my house with my fucking gun.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
To Brandenburg, it seems fishy that the angle's first concern
is the GSR test. Plus, he says a GSR test
doesn't prove innocence because gun residue can easily be washed off.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And of course they washed their fucking hands. But why
would you even make that statement. I think Ingles killed her?
Speaker 6 (20:50):
You think I think it if you get.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Secured, and then he had to kill the fucking dad too.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
We've spent a lot of time talking with Brandenburg and Hager,
discussing all sorts of violent and horrific crimes, but this
intensity in their voices kind of stopped me in my tracks.
And then I realize why they're so upset, because they
think these tragedies could have been avoided. If the Department
(21:19):
had just let them investigate Aujay's disappearance, this thing would.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Have been over a long time ago, and I think
Rick Ingles would have been in jail and these two
people might still be alive. No, I'm ready for a drink.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Dere good fucker, Betsy, and I leave Hager's house with
a pretty clear idea of what needs to happen next.
There's a few key phone calls left to make and
leads to chase down. But first we hear from someone
(21:55):
who knew not only Jennifer Vory strassly and leave Vory's,
but Rick Engles, and this person says there were problems
with the suicide story from the start.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
There are different theories of what happened the day that
Jennifer Vori Starosi and Lee Vori's died at Rick Engle's house.
There's the straightforward explanation that things unfolded exactly as Angles
and his wife say they did, but there's also a
long standing rumor that something untoward had gone on between
Angles and the young woman and that this relationship ended
(22:47):
in violence. We have to emphasize there's no proof of this,
but a conversation I have with someone who knows Angles
and the victims makes me wonder. So I just talked
to a family member of Lee Roy's and Jennifer Staiosley.
I'm on the phone with Haley bringing her up to
speed on what I heard from this family member who
(23:08):
didn't want to be named. They said to me that
their family very much believes that Angles murdered the two
of them and lied about the suicide. And that's not
just based on inconsistencies in his story, It's based on
them knowing Angles for a very long time. Lee Worries
(23:33):
had been close friends with Rick Engles for several decades
and had brought him into the family fold. So this
family member I spoke with it spent a lot of
time with Angles. They tell me about how when Angles
had his first fatal on duty shooting, he went out
to celebrate, and they tell me Angles had a volatile side.
(23:53):
So the family said that he was basically this like
hard ass country boy who was like always pulling guns
on people. And then this family member also said Lee
told them this story about going out horse riding with
Rick Engles, and on this particular trip, a ranger came
up and asked them to see their permit, and Rick
(24:17):
responded by pulling a gun on the ranger and telling
him that he could just kill the ranger right then
and there and no one would ever find out what.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Happened to him what.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
But the weirdest thing was that at the funeral they
were talking to Lynn Ingalls and ask what they had
all been doing earlier in the day the day Jennifer
and Lee died, and Lynn Ingle said that they had
spent the day at a gun range, which stuck out
(24:49):
to them because if this woman killed herself because she
was emotionally distraught, why would you take her to a
gun range. The gun range detail is just confusing. That's
not a place you'd take someone in the middle of
a mental health crisis. But it also undermines those gun
residue tests because of all four people went to the
(25:11):
gun range, then that would explain why the victims had
gun residue on their hands, And it also means that
Lynn and Rick Angles would have gun residue on their hands, unless,
of course, they washed it off. This information isn't coming
from an informant that the Sheriff's department can just dismiss
(25:31):
as tweaker talk. It's from a family member of the
two victims who says they know Rick Angles pretty well,
but they tell me they never pressed the sheriff's department
about the suicide determinations. They just let it lie. They
were scared to come forward because they felt like the
department had Rick Engles back records from the La County
(25:52):
Sheriff's department would go a long way in clarifying what
really happened, But again the LASD denied our public records request,
saying that disclosure of these records could jeopardize the potential
safety of the people involved. Well, two of those people
are dead and the other two may be responsible for
those deaths, So it seems to me that their concern
(26:16):
for safety is a little misplaced.
Speaker 9 (26:20):
Law enforcement wants to hide something, they call it a
suicide and close the case.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Auj's former boss, retired Captain Mike Bauer, thinks this is
all part of the department's strategy.
Speaker 9 (26:32):
It's too indecent for the public to learn, as it's
embarrassing to the family, and we don't release that information.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I mean, what are the odds that Angles would be
implicated in Aujay's alleged suicide and then years later be
caught in the middle of two more deaths, Two more
suicides that occurred in Angle's home with Angle's gun. John
Auja's disappearance left behind a void of information, but the
(27:00):
tragedy that befell Jennifer Vories, Derossi and Lee Ory's is
far less mysterious. There were bodies, there was a weapon,
a precise low case and a story told by two
people that doesn't entirely square with medical analysis. In spite
of all that possible evidence, and in spite of all
(27:20):
the criminal allegations surrounding Deputy Angles, the Sheriff's Department didn't
seem to dig in on any of this, and yet
again they gave Angles a pass. It's the job of
investigators to look for patterns in crime stats, criminal histories, forensics,
and yet the LSD refused to consider these violent deaths
(27:42):
and Angles home as anything more than an unfortunate coincidence.
But we can't help but wonder how many tragedies make
a pattern. According to Mike Bauer, there are even more
suspicious deaths linked to ric Angles, and those need to
be seriously investigated too.
Speaker 9 (28:02):
The goal was to find one missing person, John Ojay,
and then try to determine the true cause of his death,
and in the process I've found that this matters linked
to a number of other missing people and murders.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
There's Rodney Katziff. Remember he was the freelance investigator who
kicked up tips on the aj case and sent some
key informants Hager's away. Katzf went missing in two thousand
and one, and his car was found burned out near
the Angelis National Forest. Rick Angles was the deputy assigned
to the incident, but curiously he chose not to respond.
(28:44):
Just months before his disappearance, Katz had written a letter
to a friend talking about the AUJ case. He wrote
that Tom Hinkle and Rick Engles both killed the lost
cop d quote, I've got the witness who was there unquote.
And a few years before that, Engle shot and killed
(29:05):
a guy named Lyle Tyler. Engles had responded to a
stolen vehicle call at Tyler's trailer. When Tyler came to
the door holding a shotgun, Engles opened fire. The LSD
ruled it a justified shooting, but according to at least
one informant, Tyler knew too much about Engle's meth operation
(29:27):
and was terrified the deputy might come after him.
Speaker 9 (29:31):
This is a criminal enterprise centering on manufacture and distribution
of myth in Annel Valley, and in my opinion, continued
to run because the Sheriff'spartment did not put an end
to it.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Armed with as much reporting as possible, we decide it's
time to finish off our call list. To talk to
meth dealer Tom Hinkle and Deputy Rick Angles. I'd been
trading voicemails with Hinkle for a few weeks, but I
eventually get him on the phone. Afterwards, I called Betsy
to filler in, so you know how I've been playing
(30:12):
phone tag with old Tom Hinkle. Yeah?
Speaker 7 (30:16):
Did you actually did you finally get him?
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
My god? Yes?
Speaker 7 (30:19):
Does he still have.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That deep, gruff, menacing sounding Sam Elliot voice?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
One hundred percent. As soon as I picked up the
phone and heard his voice, I started sweating immediately. I
give Hinkle my normal spiel that we're working on a
story about something that happened in Pair Blossom in the
late nineties, and that his name has come up multiple times.
I provide no specifics, don't even say au Jay's name,
(30:45):
but he seems to know exactly what I'm referring to
and is quick to answer. He said, I don't have to.
I'm not gonna. I don't want to. I don't want
to talk to nobody about anything.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
Did he say it with that much?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
SaaS?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Oh more, SaaS.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's so surprising that that was his response.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Because you would expect someone that has.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
No involvement to say I wasn't involved. I don't know
what you're talking about, but.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's not what he said. We don't get new information
from Tom Hinkle, but our brief interaction matches what we've
heard about him. Just like when he talked to DEA
agent Kent Bailey. He doesn't deny knowledge of what happened
to Adjay. He just won't give it up. And now
(31:40):
the time's come for our other call.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
Okay, ready to do this?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I guess so?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Okay, who's going to make the call to rig Angles?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
We're torn over who's going to do the deed. We
want answers, We need answers, but the idea of confronting
Angles is nerve wracking given all the things people have
accused him of doing. So we settle the matter diplomatically,
rock paper scissors.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
It is the fairway, okay, ron two.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Paper wins every time, two out of three.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
No, Okay, I will do it, but I've got to
know if we only have time for one questions disappearents
all right, we got it?
Speaker 8 (32:29):
Yeah, three.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
My stomach's and knots. The phone's ringing, my hands starts sweating.
I get ready to leave a message, and then someone
answers the phone. Hi, I'm looking for a Rick.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I can tell Haley's nervous because her voice goes up
a whole octave. I overhear Rick's wife, Lynn angles on
the phone. She says, he's not home right now. Can
I help you?
Speaker 8 (33:06):
Yeah, my name's Haley Fox.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I'm a reporter act and I was trying to track
him down for a story we're working on. Is it
possible for me to leave a message?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
She says yes and asks what is this concerning.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
It's about a few different things back when he was
working as resident deputy in pair Blossom related to a
few things that were going on in the area, including
the John au j case. Yeah, thank you so much, Okay, bye,
She said, he may or may not want to talk
(33:38):
to you, but I'll pass along the message. Yeah, which frankly,
is more encouraging than I thought it would be. I
thought she was gonna be like, uh.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Hang out, yeah, okay, and now we.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Wait and now we wait.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
What do you think the chances are that who actually
talk to us?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Based on his performance in court, I would say not
very high.
Speaker 8 (34:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Giving him the answer questions kind of seemed like it
was pulling teeth.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
M The only real insight we have into Rick Engels's
personality is from those recorded interviews and court transcripts used
as exhibits in Hagar's lawsuit. What we glean from them
is that Angles is hard to read. On one hand,
he's evasive and kurt. He says he doesn't know what
(34:29):
he was doing on June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, the
day au j disappeared, but his deadpan responses are laced
with pisson vinegar. He seems to be flaunting that the
Sheriff's department did not thoroughly vet him as a suspect.
He says homicide detective Joe Holmes never checked his phone
records or searched his house like he claimed. He's got
(34:52):
a lot of nerve and we hope it might compel
him to talk to us, so we try him again.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
The FBI has a tap on the phone.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Watching the home, so we don't message at the telle
and I'll call you back with a phone that ain't
my own.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Angles has the same outgoing message he recorded decades earlier
when he was a suspect in multiple investigations. Even in retirement,
he still taunting authorities, teasing phone conversations, they never got
a chance to hear. I leave a message for Angles,
(35:42):
but he never calls back, so we never get a
chance to ask the money question. Were you involved in
John au Jay's disappearance. It's what the Sheriff's department should
have been asking from the start, but it seems like
maybe they just didn't want to know. And that's why
we do what we do next. We call the police
(36:06):
on the police. Haley Fox, I'm a reporter in Los
Angeles working on an investigative series about the La Tony
Sheriff's gefty who went missing out and alow.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
There's an incredible number of allegations against Ric Angles. The
number of people who are missing or murdered in his
orbit is suspicious. We've seen no hard evidence that Angles
is guilty of the things he's been accused of, but
there is a consistent pattern in the Sheriff's Department's treatment
of Angles, clearing him over and over again with little
(36:58):
to no investigative effort, and that's the biggest indication to
me that there is something to all this. We've reached
out to the Sheriff's department numerous times. We submit him
aultiple interview requests and public records requests, which they denied.
Then we wrote them one last time to give them
a chance to respond to claims about Auja's disappearance made
(37:20):
in this story, but the response we got back was
pretty underwhelming. Here's a condensed version of it. To date,
based on the information developed throughout the course of the investigation,
there is no evidence to substantiate foul play was a
factor in his disappearance. The department is dedicated to ensuring
(37:40):
that every investigative avenue is explored, and we encourage anyone
with information to contact the Homicide Bureau. Yeah, the LASD
is dedicated to every investigative avenue except for all the
ones that currently exist. So what happens when a law
enforcement agency fails to do its job or even refuses
(38:03):
to do it? Who has the power to step in
and force the issue?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Today?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
In Los Angeles County, there are two agencies that oversee
the Sheriff's Department. There's the Civilian Oversight Commission, which investigates
big picture issues like use of force and deputy misconduct,
typically focused on current LASD personnel, And then there's the
Office of the Inspector General or OIG. It's an independent
(38:32):
government agency formed to promote transparency and constitutional policing within
the Sheriff's Department. So we take our findings to the
OIG to see if they can help us. We tell
the OIG about the allegations that Rick Angles was involved
in Aujay's disappearance, that the Sheriff's department never properly investigated him,
and that there's a number of suspicious deaths surrounding Angles.
(38:57):
The Chief Deputy of the OIG writes back with this response. Currently,
the Office of the Inspector General is unable to conduct
meaningful investigations because we're not able to compel share department
personnel to.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Speak with us.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Of course, we are concerned if the Sheriff's Department covered
up the involvement of a sheriff's deputy and a homicide,
but the most we could do is report it, which
you have the power to do by reporting your investigation
in the media. Investigative reporting is often an effective means
to get the department to comment or even act. We
(39:34):
appreciate the pat on the back from the Inspector General,
but we're discouraged to learn that the oversight agency has
no real authority and therefore no real oversight because ultimately
cooperation from the Sheriff's Department is just voluntary. They can
and do simply refuse to share information with outsiders. So
(39:54):
this watchdog group is only as effective as the LASD
allows it to be, making law enforcement the gatekeeper to
its own secrets. That's what this story is ultimately about,
crime that happens in the absence of oversight. At first,
we thought the problem was just concentrated in the outskirts
(40:16):
of Los Angeles County, that the Sheriff's Department didn't do
enough to police the Antelope Valley or oversee its personnel
out there. But the truth is the problem is much
bigger because there's no actual accountability for the LA County
Sheriff's Department. They are the real untouchables. We feel frustrated, alarmed,
(40:42):
to be perfectly honest, a bit defeated, but we can't
say we weren't warned from the very beginning. So when
you first told us that you guys have stumbled into
a cluster of shit, what did you.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
Mean by that? Welcome aboard, Put your seat belt law on,
get ready for some interesting stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I check in with retired LASD Captain Mike Bauer, who
first produced us to the AJ case.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
People like you come and go and get interested in
the topic of the mysterious disappearances. It's all very interesting,
and the stuff that I found out has been beyond interesting.
It's been disturbing.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Nower just can't shake how his department handled things.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
They didn't do their job. They basically said, we've got
to put a lid on this because it's going the
wrong direction. It's going in the direction of that there's
drugs involved, and there's corruption involved, and there's murder involved. Okay,
we don't want to go in that direction. So it's
a can of crap that is a little broader than
(41:51):
just what happened to John r J. Where is he?
And once we find him, it's all over. No, once
we find him, it all starts.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Do you have any advice for digging ourselves out of it?
How do we get out of the cluster of shit?
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I'm painfully aware of the irony here of me asking
a man who's been investigating Auday's disappearance for over two
decades how the thing ends.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
The more I looked at it, the worst it got.
And as I kept going, I thought, you know, I
don't know if I can solve this.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Bauer says it for his own peace of mind. He's
had to come to terms with the fact that some
mysteries stay mysteries.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
I came to the realization in the last few years
my wife got cancer that couldn't go to la and
do any field of work at all because of my
wife's illness. And I said it myself, Okay, Now, if
you get used to the idea that I will never
solve this, and that's a hard that is a very
hard pill to swallow. I will never solve this. Well,
(43:03):
we'll see about that.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Mike Bouer lives with that unswer every day, but he's
still got some fight left in him. When he's not
tending to his ducks and other animals, he's plotting.
Speaker 5 (43:19):
Well, I have a strategy that I have not implemented,
but I may implement.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Debbie Auj gave Mike Bauer power of attorney over the
Jonathan A. J Estate, and as such he can sue
the Sheriff's Department on behalf of the estate.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
I would bring a civil lawsuit against the department for
damaging Auj's estate. Dambaging Auj's widow tambaging Auj's daughter with
this false information, containing and reporting that the department is
failing to investigate.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Meanwhile, homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg is considering getting his PI
license so he can do a private investigation into the
Auj case, hopefully with his buddy Darren Hager by his side.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
I mean, I don't know what else to do. Otherwise
we'll just take it to our grave.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
And Hagar spends his days on his ranch, herding cattle
and reliving a past life he can't seem to let
go of, not until the case is solved.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Just prove AJ killed himself or AJ was murdered. I
don't care either way. Make me look like a complete
asinine go nowhere, detective, And he committed suicide and I
just missed the whole ball of wax.
Speaker 6 (44:41):
Those are the only two things I want.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
John Auj's last day continues to play on loop in
their minds and ours too. So we make one last
trip to the Devil's punch Bowl, but this time we're
not chasing after anything. Staring out at that this overlook,
(45:12):
you know, and like seeing the mountains and the rocks,
and you just get the sense that it's like this immovable,
static thing.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I think it's really fitting that we're here because so
much of John Augy's story is like elusive and intangible
and feels impossible to hold on to. And the Devil's
Punch Bowl is like the one place where we can
actually go and feel some part of the story.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
It grounds it in a way.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
It grounds it. Yeah, like we can literally touch the
rocks and hear the trees, and that is really something
that's been hard to find in this story, any sort
of solid ground.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
We've come to park our story to bring it home.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I feel tired, is what I feel. I can't imagine
how tired Power.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
And Brandenburg an Acre and everybody.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I feel really tired to you. It's a lot to
take on, and working on this story. It's kind of
become the focal point of my life in a way
that hasn't been the most healthy. But it's the kind
of story that just draws you in and makes you
kind of obsessive because it feels like if you keep
(46:48):
chasing after the thing, the thing will reveal itself to you.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
I still think the thing might reveal itself to us
maybe twenty years from alvest.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Hailey is the eternal optimist. I'm the eternal pessimist, or realist,
as I like to call it. Together, we balance each
other out and capture the ambivalence of what our characters
live with each and every day. The sun is starting
to go down pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Now, I was gonna say, it's going to be dark
pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
In the Western movie version of this story, the good
guys get the bad guys and ride off into the sunset.
But in this story, there's no tidy distinction between the
good guys and the bad guys, and there's certainly no
tidy ending. So we just sit on a rocky overlook
and watch the sun go down as it dips behind
(47:52):
a mountain. The last rays of light reflect off the
rock formations as darkness pulls up from the bottom of
the punch bowl. The rocks look like fiery pillars floating
in a sea of black, something solid encircled by shadows.
And then the light fades from them too. All right,
(48:17):
the sun has set on the punch bowl.
Speaker 6 (48:21):
I think that's that's our cute.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, all right, And with that we pack up our
stuff and just walk away. And then, of course I
get a call from Haley, a few weeks later.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
I'm calling because I just heard back from the FBI.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Lol.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
It's actually a pretty good update.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Haley Fox, the Intrepid Reporter resubmitted our FBI request with
additional information from our investigation, and this time we don't
get their usual song and dance.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
They said they have four hundred and eighty five pages.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Joh way, dude, yes, are you serious?
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (49:18):
So they were investigating the audit disappearance.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
It seems like it.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
That's important confirmation because we know that the FBI would
not be investigating an isolated homicide case or disappearance.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
No, they don't get involved in anything unless there's an
element of corruption or multiple victims or something like that.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Mm hmmmm hm.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
So when do we get our hands on these files?
Speaker 1 (49:44):
That's the kicker. They said that it will take about
four years to process.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Four years? What are they doing copying these things by hands?
Speaker 7 (49:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Just what I thought. I was a They pulled me
back in.
Speaker 9 (50:06):
Terrible.
Speaker 6 (50:07):
That's so bad, oh boy.
Speaker 10 (50:10):
Okay, so to be continued to be continued, Okay, talk
to you later, Okay, love you, bye, love you, bye,
love you okay bye like bye for fucking reel, Get
off the phone.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Go away I did.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
If you have any information or tips related to the
disappearance of John Aujay, please call two one three two six'
two nine eight eight nine for. Email shadows At pushkin DOT.
Fm valley Of shadows is, reported written and produced by
Us Haley fox And Betsy. Sheppard our editor Is Diane.
(51:29):
Hotson our executive producers Are Jacob smith And Alexandra. Garreton
original music By Jake, Gorsky Ray, Lynch Mike jersich And Hayden.
Gardner sound designed By Jake, gorsky fact checking By Onica.
Robbins additional production support By Sonia gerwick and our show
(51:50):
art was designed By Sean carney And Betsy. Shepherd special
thanks To Nick white for show art. Photography special thanks
to a few more people At pushkin who Made valley
Of shadows Possible Greta, Cone Christina, Sullivan Eric, Sandler Morgan,
Rattner Amy, Haggerdorn Kira, Posey jordan, McMillan Jake, flanagan And Owen.
(52:16):
Miller additional thanks To Sonic Milk studio In, Cambria california
And Porsche Street studios In Los. Angeles and we want
to thank our families for cutting us a lot of
slack over this past. Year valley Of shadows is a
production Of Pushkin. Industries to find More pushkin, podcasts listen
(52:40):
on The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever.
Speaker 5 (52:43):
You listen to.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
Podcasts from type To. Fun We're haley And betsy
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Season 5
Saskia Inwood woke up one morning, knowing her life would never be the same. The night before, she learned the unimaginable – that the husband she knew in the light of day was a different person after dark. This season unpacks Saskia’s discovery of her husband’s secret life and her fight to bring him to justice. Along the way, we expose a crime that is just coming to light. This is also a story about the myth of the “perfect victim:” who gets believed, who gets doubted, and why. We follow Saskia as she works to reclaim her body, her voice, and her life. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at betrayalpod@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.