May 19, 2025 • 56 mins
In the 80s & 90s - they didn’t come any cooler than Ione Skye.
You remember her from Say Anything, the iconic 80s teen movie, or from River’s Edge or Gas Food Lodging or The Rachel Papers…But while Ione was busy making some of the most era-defining films, she was also living the most aspirational 90’s life imaginable - Teenage friends with River Phoenix, teenage girlfriend to The Red Hot Chilli Peppers Anthony Keidis. Young wife of Beastie Boy Adam 'Ad Rock' Horowitz. Welcomed into Madonna’s circle, until she started dating all her female exes. Now, she’s been married to Australian musician Ben Lee for well over a decade, and lives in Sydney.
But Ione isn’t defined by the men she’s married or the women she’s loved - she’s the main character of her own wild, beautiful, fearless story - and she’s written it all down in her book, Say Everything - which is a glorious, pent-up outpouring of story and gossip and validation of girlhood and womanhood and romance and sexuality and what was like to come of age in - literally - a different time.
You can find Ione’s book here: https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9780008661120/say-everything-a-memoir/
And follow her on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/ioneskyelee/
CREDITS:
Host: Holly Wainwright
Guest: Ione Skye
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray
Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. I wanted to be her,
me and all my friends, all us semi cool girls
the nineties, all ahead of us, pouring over the pages
of hard to find magazines, studying the real thing, exotic
(00:35):
creatures at home in downtown LA or New York and
not in the.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Dreary suburbs of wherever.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Beautiful but not trying too hard, a little undone, a
little unclean, a little floaty, a little drifty, hinting and
a hard edge. Hanging with the boys in the band,
friends with Keanu and River, invited to the cool parties,
cameoing in the cool films, drinking, not drunk, smoking, not stoned, unbothered, untethered,
(01:04):
uninterested in convention, monogamy, matrimony.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Just there, you know, just hanging.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It didn't occur to me, not really, that the cool
girls didn't seem to say anything. You couldn't say much then,
not really. We didn't have cameras and mics and the
ability to broadcast out every thought in our hands all
day and all night. We looked on at the silent ones,
cigarettes drooping between their fingers, our faces smoothed against the
(01:31):
smudged glass of clubs too cool for us, and we
imagined and projected and swooned. Nineties cool girls didn't sell out,
they didn't speak out. They didn't make a fuss about
anything at all. Until now, Hello, I'm Holly Wainwright and
I am mid midlife, midfamily, mid stumbled down memory Lane.
(01:57):
Ione Sky was the coolest of the nineties cool girls
to me, even the name, especially the name, but also
the attitude, the aloofness that was likely shyness, the arty,
floaty boho vibe sprinkled with a glinty dusting of grune.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
If you don't know who Ione Sky is, you.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Need to think back to say anything the iconic eighties
teen movie with John Cusack holding up that most eighties.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Of things, the boombox.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Or you need to think back to River's Edge with
Keanu Reeves, or gas food lodging or the Rachel Papers.
Or you need to think back to all the cool
people of the time and just look to their left.
There's Ione at the heart of so many essential scenes.
She was a rock star kid hanging out over at
Mick Jagger's house, Frank Zappa's house. She was teenage friends
(02:49):
with River Phoenix, teenage girlfriend to the Red Hot Chili Peppers,
Anthony Keidis, young wife to Ad Rock, a beastie boy
for God's sake, welcomed into Madonna's circle until she started
dating all her female exes. Married now to iconic Australian
musician Ben Lee for well over a decade, deeply la actress,
(03:11):
artist and a mother who lives happily in Sydney. Then
on jeenws, as they were literally called, were often silent
and often known by the dudes they hung out with.
And Ione Sky knows that, and that's why her book
Say Everything is such a glorious, pent up outpouring of
story and gossip and validation of girlhood and womanhood and
(03:32):
romance and sexuality and what it was like to come
of age in literally a different time. She writes beautifully
about all those scenes I just mentioned, and also, and
we talk about this today, it's pretty adult conversation about
drugs and sex and.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Cheating and longing and all of it.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I think you can tell when Ione and I started
talking that I'm just.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
A little excited about getting to meet her.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'd been listening and reading to say everything for days,
and I felt like I was immersed in that world
I always wondered about. So anyway, come and find out
what it was like on the other side of that
smudgy glass. In my conversation with Ione's guy, I only
have already told you off Mike how much I adored
this book.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I listened to it, I read it. It was very
cathartic for me, because I'm sure I'm not the only
gen X woman who feels like this. But when I
was young, I was like wishing I was living your life.
I was going out with the guy who had the
bad red hot chili peppers tattoo and the like anti
kids drug habit, but he definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Wasn't Anthony Kiddish ah ha.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And you know I had Keanu Reeves and River Phoenix
on my walls.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
When I was reading this.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's so interesting because you're like, that was the life
so many people wanted, did you. We're going to get
to all the ins and outs of that later, But
when you were in all that and you were at
the epicenter of all these different scenes, like the cool
indie movie scenes, the music scene, the art scene, the
clubbing scene in the nineties. Did it feel like that
that you were in the middle of things.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, I definitely felt excited to be with you know, Sparkly,
the famous see people. So it didn't it wasn't just
like any teens life. It was because I was still
a teen having the same emotions and crushes and so
my level of emotions were probably like most teenagers you
(05:26):
know at that age. But I definitely was aware and
over excited and excited about knowing like kind of actors
and musicians and stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So it wasn't it wasn't boring.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
It wasn't boring.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
It wasn't like, you know, it's like anybody, and you
know I was. I think I was aware, like this
is exciting.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Your memoir it sort of starts from your childhood and
goes through pretty much to when you meet Bentley, who
is your Australian legend husband, and you dip in and
out of these different scenes in different moments. And one
of the things I loved about the way it's written
is that when you're there, you're really there, so you
write it in place almost so you are the little
(06:05):
girl in Frozen Connecticut with the little parrakeets that freeze
to death in the kitchen, and then you are the
confused teenager who's trying to seduce Keanu Reeves. And was
there like a witchy trick to getting your mind back
in those places?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Well, there was a choice or not a choice.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
But I had an awareness that if I'm writing and
I'm eight years old in this part of the story,
I'm not going to have the you know, objective overview
kind of you know, look upon what I was going through.
I'm going to be in the eight year old's emotions,
so I'm not going to have an adult emotion. So
I kind of consciously, intellectually knew that. But I also
(06:47):
have a really good ability to remember how I felt,
and I had a lot of journals.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I have a good long term memory.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
For some reason, I must have been obsessed with my
own life, because I was already writing stories, especially in
my junior high which you know, twelve thirteen year old
first crushes. I was already kind of writing little story
about that. So I think it's like being a little bit,
I don't know, obsessed with my own life, but I
do remember. So I kind of had a great ability
(07:18):
to remember how I felt so that really helped, because
that's kind of where I started how I felt. I
was just able to kind of, yeah, maybe it's a
witchy thing.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I was just kind of able to go back there
and remember I could put myself back there.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
What's right about that is that you're not writing it
with a judgmental eye from afar. I mean, you touch
a bit in the epilogue of the book, and we'll
get to all this about how you feel now about
some of the things you went through as a teenager.
But when you're just in it, you're just in it.
And I really really like that.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I didn't want it to be moralistic or I
just have an aversion in general to people knowing it all,
or I have the answers, you know, I don't mind
if someone gives advice and you want it, or if
you learn how things people do things that help you, whatever.
But I definitely didn't want it, like and now I
(08:11):
know how to do everything, and that then was so
bad and now is good.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Like I just.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Didn't want that kind of I wanted to kind of
just make it like in the middle of the experience
and not have a judgment, you know, although I'm very
hard on myself clearly in the book, but you know,
I didn't want it to have a tone of judgment.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You are, but it also feels very real in the
way that girls are hard on themselves. Yeah, I mean,
I really love your honesty throughout it. But for those
who haven't read it, just to paint a bit of
a scene, you grow up mostly in Los Angeles with
your mom and your brother Donna, who you're very close to.
It's a really enviable relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I think that one.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It's a bohemian life, I guess you could say, right. So,
your father is the sixties.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
We say he's not a pop star. He was like
a folk legend, psychedelic.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Kind of guy, and who had this almost mythical status
on that scene, in the sixties scene. But you never
knew him, You didn't grow up with him, he wasn't around,
and you didn't actually get to meet him till your teens.
But the times you tell about your childhood, particularly in
LA in this little apartment with your mom and your
(09:24):
brother and all these interesting characters are coming in and
out because your mom is a very well connected woman,
and she deals pot and she loves you fiercely, but
she's not that big on rules. That part of it
sounds kind of great. Your relationship with your.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Mom, it was, yeah, yeah, my mother is just was
kind of born to be a mom in a way,
and even though she was Bohemian and even though she
wanted this sixties kind of lifestyle, she really at the
end of the day, her happy kind of life was
being a mom, cooking dinners, having an open house, which
(10:00):
meant just like brunches and making dinner and having friends
come over for dinner, like sort of domestic. Sort of
funny because she is a hippie, because she's sort of
loving and has an open heart, and she she just
loves like taking care of people.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
She's non judgmental mental.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
But at the end of the day, it was just like,
you know, go to bed, and you know, cook us breakfast.
You know, she would tell us to go to you know.
So those were the kind of rules, the basic parenting rules,
but bohemian in a way that a lot of kind
of artistic types around, a lot of single mothers around,
so I didn't really grow up with traditional families like
(10:43):
mom and dad with a straight job where the dad
goes to work.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
It was definitely very loosey goosey in that sense.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Some of your best friends were other girls who had
famous dads. It's not his clubs that I guess I'd
never considered exists.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I know, I thought it was so like, wow, this
is so mystical.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
But when I thought about it, you know, they were
just my mom was friends with these women and they
were in a scene and all they all sort of
hung out at the whiskey or in London at a party,
and it just these were the kind of women who
were into musicians and the scenes.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So so it's.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Sort of like you throw a rock and you're going
to hit another, like you know, single mom who had
a kid with a famous you know, sixties icon.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So it's Caros Jagger, Amelia Fleetwood, the Zappa's.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, the Zappa's.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And then later my friend Zoe Cassavetti's who Jenna Rowlands
and John Cassavetti's daughter. So yeah, I mean, I guess
being in La and just this scene, you know, the
parents were all kind of in a scene together. My
mom briefly knew Zoe Cassavetti's father years ago in New York,
so it was kind of like made sense. But because
(11:53):
people were famous and stuff. It felt like there was
something a little more like spooky about how we all
became friends. But it really was just like that scene.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Also, those girls, you all had a similar story, but
there were different levels of connection with these famous dads.
So Kros did have a relationship with Mick and you're
quite jealous of it. But then and then Amelia didn't
so much. And you all had these different stories, but
it is this interesting world where you have all got
this thing in common.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, they had more interaction and their dads were more, yeah,
more involved, you know, in their own way.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Your honesty is extraordinary in this book. It's one of
things I love about it is, you know, shy away
from the things you wanted, which I think is often
like women aren't encouraged to talk about their desires, whether
it's to fit in, because it's actually I found it
really touching. You go to a Maculate Heart, which I
think is the school that Megan Marka went to. Yes,
(12:48):
so Catholic, quite conservative Catholic school. For a while, you
really want to go, You talk your mom into going,
and there there's this group of girls called the Aprils,
and you want to be part of them. You also
have your first crush in that situation. Tell me about
do you think that because this childhood you were in,
which sounds so glamorous but was as you said about
Lucy Goosey, did it just looks so appealing that sort
(13:10):
of waspy world.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, it really did.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I must have picked up on my mother's insecurity about
you know, paying the rent, and it just felt untethered
in a certain way. And so yeah, I was very
drawn and attracted to security. And I think my mother
was looking for security and marrying her you know, my
(13:35):
stepfather's and she was really looking for security. So I
think for me going to a school that was structured
and then all of the preppy girls with their kind
of ordered lives, it looked like it was functioning. And
so I was really drawn to that up until later
when I met my first daughter's father, who also had
(13:55):
a very he's very ordered, and he had money and
was very preppy, and so I sort of thought that
was like very together, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
And also I can picture the esthetic of that because
at that time that kind of like the little school
girly kilts and all the references you have in that
time to the things you wanted.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Yeah, they just take you right back.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
There you really wanted them, and then you wanted to
be in April, but you were too flaky, yeah, or
too creative.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Too creative, Yeah, I never could be. I never could
be like that one hundred percent. And I still think
I want to be like that, but I probably don't.
Like if all of a sudden I knew how to
do all of those things, I don't know, I could
use being a little more organized and decorating a house
the way I really want to. But you know, I'll
(14:46):
get there one day.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Then you talk really honestly, and I think this is
quite I hate to use the word brave, but about
the fact that you were. But you were a horny
teenager right as we all were. But now it's almost like,
I don't know, you can't say it. This is such
a big conversation, which I think is very right about
sexualizing kids.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Sure, I know, yeah, yeah, I mean I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I was just because biologically and just physically at that
age you are. But I wasn't horny toward other people
in the way that I was. You know, Thank God
that you can have your own experiences with yourself because
you discover this and you run a back and because
I never I wasn't like I need to do this
(15:33):
with someone else, like I definitely that's actually weird, strangely
because the book you can see I'm quite you know, open,
and I have a lot of lovers in my life,
but I it's taken me a very long time to
actually feel really comfortable sleeping with somebody, you know, in
a deeper sense. But yeah, I was just like a
(15:53):
normal teenager who was like very revved up. But I
wasn't like I need to like start sort of getting
with people, as they say. But I was more romantically
and intrigued. I started having intrigues at that age. So
with you know, the head of the Queen of the April,
Queen of April, and then getting the star football player,
(16:17):
that was more intriguing and almost like made me feel
like powerful as a person. So it wasn't like my
body wasn't really like taking me there. It was more
like my you know, like my emotions and my romance
and my intrigue.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You get your first role in the movie River's Edge,
and Keanu Reeves is in it, which because of course
lucky me, I know, right, and you write brilliantly and
beautifully about how you set you fifteen right yeifteen, and
you you talk about how to get the part and
(16:54):
work in Hollywood, you had to be emancipated from your mother,
which was kind of you know, from outside Hollywood. You
read about all the stars of the time who did that,
And as I understood it in your book, it's kind
of so that you don't have to go to school
and you can work long hour and you can be passed.
But it sounds as if you're cast a drift. But
actually you didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I didn't know, but I always thought it was sort
of a bad thing. But to be honest, I don't
know anyone who was overworked from being emancipated. But Drew Barrymore,
who I just spoke to recently, Drew Barrymore was emancipated,
and for her it helped her actually because she was
(17:35):
able to take control I guess, of her mother money
and have more control sort of boundaries with her mother.
So for her it actually was a good thing in
that way. For me, it didn't really do much. It
kind of gave me a little more of a feeling
like I was a grown up before I was a
(17:55):
grown up, So that might have been a negative, because
I think it would have been good for me to
remember I was a kid for a little bit longer.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
On that set, you very understandably fancy Keana quite a lot. Yeah,
and you right again with brilliant honesty about sort of
trying to seduce him. Yeah, but he was a no.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
No, he's a no and he and the good thing was,
which I sort of expressed in the book, not that clearly,
but maybe that I don't think I would have been ready,
even though I thought I was. I think I just
because I was acting and doing a grown ups job. Essentially,
I was, like I thought, and I was hanging out
(18:38):
with grown ups because I'm doing a movie with you know,
the crew and the directors are grown up, and you're
all of a sudden like kind of being treated like
a grown up. But also we were probably annoying teenagers
on the set where they're like, come on.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
We have to film this.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Where are you guys like running around? Anyway, I think
I was under the illusion I was older than I was,
So I think I was sort of kind of relieved
because I think it would have been weird for me
and so he was a gentleman.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
He sounds he sounds great.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, he really is.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And in this time that you're in that scene. But
then you write in the book that you think there
was a you before you started dating Anthony Ketis and after,
and you write very honestly about that relationship and how
you were a child but you were not forced, but
you found yourself in this very adult role of trying
(19:32):
to save this guy who.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Was in the throes of addiction.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Was it really painful to go back to that and
have the feelings that I'm sure you do have about
that version of you.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I mean, there is this one point where in the book,
I'm at this actress Martha Plimpton's and it's kind of
miring sort of the end where I'm starting to kind
of take care of myself a little bit better emotionally.
And the only good thing about straying so far from
(20:06):
myself and like not being in touch with like how
are you doing? How are you feeling? Was that the
coming back to myself is so sweet.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's like the kind of it's kind of a big,
memorable sort of time to kind of just like, oh
I am you know, here I need to take care
of myself kind of moment. But other than that, it
was just I was, I don't know why, I'm the
type of person that was prone to looking after someone
like that. And fortunately I like didn't repeat.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
It like I you know, I.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It almost gave me a like a you know, I
don't know. I just was almost like an aversion to that.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
People like that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
True because it didn't set a pattern, which it does
for a lot of people. Because one of the things
I really appreciated about that you talking so honestly about
that period in the book is although the circumstances are
extreme in that he's a rock star, he's becoming a
rock star, and you're, you know, living seemingly glamorous life,
but a lot of women find themselves in relationships like
that where their needs a last they are you know,
(21:17):
you're right that Anthony didn't hit you. But he could
be cruel, he could be dismissive, he would disappear, he
would cheat, But you lots and lots of women get
themselves in relationships like that, and it doesn't have to
be it doesn't have to ruin your life. I don't know,
I guess I appreciated that that you were so honest
about it, rather than sort of moralizing about all those
(21:41):
relationships being negative, which obviously it is, but it's an
experience that's really yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean, I feel bad when I think of myself
back then and how stressed and scared and miserable it was.
And I definitely warmed my hands around the fire of
destructive people like a lot, and you know, was a
little destructive myself here and there. So I mean, and
I was sort of clear with my kids, like recently
(22:09):
said to my fifteen year old who finally started one
of her friends started reading the book because I was
sort of like, not, I didn't tell her not to
read it, but I kind of didn't want her to
read it yet, even though she knows a little bit
about me. But her friend picked it up and he
loves reading and was like, couldn't put it down.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
And then my daughter was like, you know, so.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I just said, just so you know, like me dabbling
in drugs and stuff, it was destructive, Like there's a
adventurous like trying something out, and then there's a like.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Just to sort of make it clear what.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
The line is with that with like being curious versus
like a little bit there's times where it's a little
bit of a destructive side.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
In any case, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It was hard, but I also, thankfully, I don't know
if it's my mom or what, I kind of always
would kind of pull out before and kind of go
back to taking care of myself, which and then ultimately
always kind of go in that direction for the most part,
which is I don't know, something amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It is amazing because it's not always what happens. But
it also sounds like your mom. I got this sense
of almost like this sort of glowing has you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
That Yeah, could go back there exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It didn't look like the picket fancy thing that people
think you have to build.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
No, it's a loving home. Yes, but you knew you.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Could go Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And my mother said to me, this book has been
so even brought us closer.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
We're already close, but she said.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
To me, maybe a week ago, you know, I didn't
get very strict with you when you were with Anthony
and when you moved into that apartment with him, because
I wanted you to know you could come home, and
in fact, in the end It was in her living room,
hanging out when she was playing poker with all her
friends who I knew most of my life, who were
(23:59):
wonderful friends, in the warmth of her household, and her
being very like, I'm here for you, which made me
kind of snap out of it. So I kept going
back home even when I lived with Anthony, and you know,
so thankfully she wasn't like the kind of parent who
like cut me off or something.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
She played the long game in it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, seemed to her, Yeah, what did you do to think?
By the way, when she was reading those chapters, she was.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Just sort of like, you know, asking about drug parts,
and she just sort of would ask. But she she's
not judgmental herself. She's still a kid. I mean, it's
funny to see she's fifteen and I view her as
a kid. So it's funny that I thought when I
was fifteen, I was not a kid anymore. So, I
(24:46):
you know, she's just sort of like, oh, I didn't
know you tried that twice or whatever, and I would
just you know, I I'm very you know, open with her,
but yeah, I don't know. She I don't know actually
what she thinks I should ask her. She's proud of me,
I can see because the book's doing well and people
like it. But I don't know what she thinks about
(25:08):
it exactly, but I'll.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Coming up after this shortbreak.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Ione shares what it was like to have friends like
Big Jagger and Madonna and how Madonna really felt about Ione.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Dating her exis.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Another place that you're very honest is when you talk
about cheating, right, because after Anthony and you pull yourself
out and you meet Adam Horowitz and that's this is
embarrassing for you and for me. But the me and Ione,
because she's the cheese and I'm the macaroni line is
iconic in my childhood.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yes, child that may be one of the coolest things
to have Q tip, you know, rap about us and
then just being that to me. I mean, I guess
not everybody thinks the Beast Boys are great, but I do.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I got of course they're great.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
I know, I do.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I'm always amazed when people aren't into them because I was, like,
I think of them as such an incredible band.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Anyway, Yeah, it's so that's so fun for me.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So you meet Adam, you say he's the complete It's
such a different relationship. It's sunshine and it's love and
it's fun and it's light, and you get married. Really
you're young when you get married and you start living
a different kind of life. But you're very honest about
the fact that ultimately one of the things that brought
(26:32):
that marriage done was your infidelity.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Again, that's hashtag brave talk about.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
In that way in your book, but it's also for
you that was also part of your sexual your journey
with sexuality, because you were cheating mostly with women.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah. Yeah, so there was a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
One I just had to explore my bisexuality.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
That just was like gonna happen. And I did it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Feel like a knocking on the door that just wasn't
going away?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And I just I think I think had I been
brave hashtag brave enough, I would have we would have
broken up and said, this was an amazing you know,
a few years, but I need.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
To like just do this.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
But I was too attached to being safe and married,
so I kind of thought I could do it both,
even though it was sort of miserable of course, to
do it both at.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
The same time. But yeah, it was it was just
I wasn't ready.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I didn't want to break up, but nothing was going
to stop me from kind of exploring that. And then
there was the third thing, which was I noticed that
I was very when we had separation.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I just couldn't.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I didn't feel like emotionally I was he was ever
going to come back?
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Or is something maybe because of it?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Every time he went on tour, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Mean yeah, exactly, Like intellectually I knew and he was
so devoted and sweet and had no pattern of being
you know, he would always call and he didn't cheat,
he was there, but it's still felt I would feel
very anxious. So there was like sort of three things
going on at the same time that I didn't want
to leave, I did want to explore, and I also
(28:23):
wasn't aware that I was actually sort of he was
coming back and all of that.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Around this time, you get briefly invited into Madonna's world.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about that. Yeah, that's
like a whole other level of oh yeah, celebrity, I.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Know, yeah, so funny.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I don't know if she was interested in me because
I knew.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Some of her friends, or I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I mean, you know, invited to I think through Ingrid Casaris,
you know, invited to a couple of her dinner parties,
you know, one in Florida and one in LA and
then we just had sometimes we're in the same kind
of social thing. And I hung out with her like
a couple times in New York. And but of course
I remember every single moment because I was just like
(29:11):
recording it with my mind.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So it did feel she was like a level of
famous that is trumpsend.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yes, a beastie boy.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, because I became friendly with John Taylor from Duran
Durant And if you had told me at fourteen, I
would know any because those were not my beatles but
kind of Duran Duran and you know, I mean Adamant.
I suppose Billy Idol, but Duran Duran. It was like Beatlemania.
And so I would have like been like, what, I'm
(29:45):
not gonna I would hang out. But when I did
hang out with John Taylor, he was so nice. He
was married to my friend Amanda Decadiney and just sweet
and it felt kind of, you know, sort of like
hanging out with a person and I almost would forget, oh,
this is someone from Duranduran, but Mick Jagger and Madonna
I never ever can get over anytime ever thinking head
(30:09):
this is I'm sitting with Mick Jagger.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I'm sitting with Mick Jagger.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Like, I don't know, I think I would probably do
that with Bob Dylan and yeah, certain, yeah, people, there's
just this level where you're still just like, I'm sitting
with this person. And with Madonna, it's I mean, I
love her, you know, her music and her thing, but
it's sort of also just she She's so such a
big personality.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't know, you dated a couple of her exes.
Did she approve or disapprove of this?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I think that might have been the reason why she
was sort of like intrigued. And I didn't rub her
the wrong way, because she's can be kind of like
rough with people, and if she's not into you, you
will know it and she'll be kind of like a
mean girl about it. So for some reason I did
not rub her the wrong way.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You did not get cast out.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
No, there's a touching scene in the book where you
with Adam in New York and you want to go
out clubbing because you've started you're moving in this world
now with your brother, of this nineties club world and
there are supermodels and they're like it's a whole thing
flying to London for a party of night and Adam's like,
you're getting ready to go out and He's like, I
don't want it.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Oh yeah, he was not. I mean, you know, he
just first they done it.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
The fashion scene did not excite him as much as
I don't know why. I mean, I find fashion inspiring,
you know, I do find like really great you know,
pieces whatever inspiring. But he definitely for him, he had
partied and gone out at really good clubs. His timing
(31:45):
dance Aterria and different clubs in New York. I was
he's a little bit older than me. I kind of
there was a club in LA called power Tools that
was really good. But when I started to want to
go out, it was like in the nineties and there
were some fun clubs in London.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
I won't be able to remember the names.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And you know, I don't know, I just like I
didn't feel like going out when I was when the
clubs were really good or whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
So the timing did not work out.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Just when I wanted to go out, it was when
I was married and he was like, I've done this, like,
you know, you should do this. You've never gone out
to clubs and lived your life that way, you should
do it. And I was like, no, no, but I
don't want to like he yeah, so he was not like,
you know, he wasn't in the mood and the model scene.
(32:34):
I loved hanging out with the models, and I was following,
you were my brother around.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Him, Yeah, you were modeling for a while, and he
obviously is a model.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
My brother.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, my brother was doing it and his he had
a band and it was really fun.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
My brother had a band and it was really fun.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
To go around with his band, and Adam loved to
see my brother perform in his band.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
But yeah, there was a.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Little bit of a divide there, like hanging out with
models wasn't his favorite thing.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I would imagine it's intimidating, but you.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Oh yeah, absolutely. Also, I just looked at them like,
I mean, they were you know, you know, Amber Valletta
and Shalom Harlowe and Kate Moss wasn't around. I didn't
hang out with her as much as you know, Christie's group,
but it was Kate Moss was best friends at the time.
With Noie Campbell, and so they I hung out a
(33:28):
bit with them, but I just viewed them as, like,
you know, works of art.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I mean I was, I was sort of a mess.
I was amazed by them.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
To close out this chapter, you talk in the book
about how obviously drugs were everywhere, and you'd been through
this experience with Anthony, and you had tried heroin and
you try cocaine. But you say in the book, I'm
lucky I didn't get hooked. You must have seen a
lot of people around. Well, I know you did. River
Phoenix was a very good friend of yours, and you
(33:57):
write beautifully in the book about the shock of that loss.
But do you think it is luck? Do you think
it is what's your insight into that I've seen?
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah, I don't know. I do think it's sure.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I guess there's like the genetic component, and there's I
don't know what it is. I mean, I guess there's
a couple of different theories. But you know, then you'll
have a family where one is a drug addict and
one's not, and I don't know, it's sort of random.
And also sometimes it does run in the family.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
And then you enjoyed it but to it, but you
could say no.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, I guess I just didn't. I mean, there was
a period where I smoked so much weed. We used
to call it pot. But now my kids are like pot.
And then when I thought like weed was sort of
now anyway, I used smoke tons of weed until before kids.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Then I made me paranoid.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
And also, I don't know, I just sort of stopped
doing stuff when I had.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Kids and then so anyway, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I just I mean, I liked coke, and I've tried
ecstasy twice, but I don't know why. I feel like
I should have done more ecstasy when it was good,
because now I guess you can't find it.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I just kind of I don't know. I guess I
just realized.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I think I thought I probably could get hooked, and
I just avoided doing it too much.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
I don't know, but I have no idea. My mom
maybe because.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
She's you know, she's sort of smoked pop, but she
never did any It wasn't part of that.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, the divorce breaks you, and for for me, one
of the most poignant parts in this book is that
so it breaks you but also it sounds like as
I'm reading and listening to it that it also you
like you kind of get to live.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Your life a bit.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Then you've been so defined by these were not defined
by because you'd worked through these relationships. You were making
movies and you're working. But it's like you get to
see who you are.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yes, yes, yeah that was At the time I felt
so like kind of lost and freaked out. But looking back,
even a few years after, if I would look back,
I would feel so so fond about that time. I
mean it was I was so lucky to be in
my twenties living in New York City in an apartment,
(36:16):
and my one best friend lived a bummy one lived
below me. My brother was still in New York. There
was a club that we used to go to like
walking distance. I was so fortunate to be able to
do that. Like it's so I mean, I guess people
still do it, but I don't know. It was a
time where I was alone with myself and I was
painting and just decorating this little apartment, and it was
(36:38):
really just such a beautiful time.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
It really was.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
You do talk in the book about how the period
that you were in Hollywood, and I mean you've lived
in Hollywood, but when you were in these movies, it
was the Ngeneux kind of era. In fact, you say,
when you get the part and say anything, skipping back
a bit, you literally your friend says to you, Cameron
(37:03):
Crowe's looking for an engineer.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, and you're like, that could be me. I know,
what was the role being a nongeneu?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
And also I know, as we've said, we don't want
to look back with all of our knowledge and judgment
from now, but was there a point where you were like,
hold on, like John Kusack on that movie's getting input
into the script. Yeah, you know, he's kind of throwing
his weight around a bit, not in a negative way,
but your role and it seemed almost also as a
(37:33):
rock girlfriend A little.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Bit is like was it like that?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
And did it take you a while to go? Was
there a time when you went hold on? What do
I think about that?
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I mean, on one hand, I do say in the
book sort of like there was the feeling that you
just sat by the men and just kind of like
laughed and listened to them. And I still have that
a little bit, Like I just did this movie called
Ana Konda and the Gold Coast and I played Jack
Black's wife, and Paul Rudder is in it. Right, You've
(38:03):
just done that and it's coming out Christmas. This movie
Anna Konda is so fun. And I would hang out
with you know, all Read and Jack Black are like hilarious,
and we'd be hanging out in between takes, and my
instinct was just to let them laugh and joke together.
And then I was like, hang on, I like joking,
and so I had to encourage myself. But Cameron Crowe,
(38:24):
John Cusack, Anthony Keatis even they did care about what
I had to say. And we had very deep, intellectual,
lively conversations about you know, music.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
And whatever things. So I did have that.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
But in work aspect, I felt like, there's this one
story I'm thinking about Mary Louise Parker, the actress, and
she was in this TV show Weeds or something, and
I remember hearing her give notes on the script for
the TV show. So it's an actress in her probably
(39:02):
almost thirty, giving notes, and my thought was, how difficult. Well,
somebody said she's being difficult, and no one would say
a man was being difficult unless he was being annoying.
But it was like even then, that was in the
early two thousands. For a woman who's like thirty on it,
(39:22):
she's the lead on this TV show, for her to
be giving notes was difficult, and it's just like, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
We internalized a lot of you know, don't be the
squeaky wheel, make things cool. If you be cool, yeah,
it would be cool. Don't be troubled. Yeah, I feel
that that was very much a gen X thing.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Anyway, back to your astonishing honesty. So you've broken up,
your marriage has ended, You've had this wonderful period of
sort of figuring out what's next, getting through the heartbreak.
You write beautifully about that heartbreak, by the way, very
relatable too. But when you decide you want to be
a mother, it sort of comes upon you all at once.
You literally call your friend and you're like, we need
(40:08):
to find me in a husband is basically what you say.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I had never been set up before because there was
always so many interesting people around it. It felt like
there was almost too many people to try to date
when I was younger, And maybe this is the case
for a lot of people. If I guess if they're lucky.
And then it's sort of not that it dries up
a little, but yeah, just when I wanted to have
a kid, then all of a sudden, I looked around.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
It was like, wait, who can be my husband now?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
And it seemed but it was a very witchy moment
that Amelia Fleeper and I like literally did that manifestation list,
a horny, corny list. And then our friend called the
next day, which is so odd, said I've got a guy.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
I've got someone for you. And I said, that's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
We're just writing this manifestation list.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Maybe they do work.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
The thing about this is that you're sort of sort
of almost auditioned by him to be your wife. Yeah,
and you hit it off, and you get pregnant, you
get engaged, and you move into sort of the preppy
fantasy in my mind.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Obviously I'm not familiar with this world.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I'm thinking of like Charlotte York's apartment in.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Sex and the City.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but that time, and I know we
don't want to tie things in neat little bows, but
that time, as the planning the wedding approached and motherhood approached,
you pulled yourself back, said something happened where you went,
This isn't actually my dream.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
Yeah, I really didn't know.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Uh, Like I got cold feet, We got engaged, I
was pregnant. It all happened very fast. I loved his friends.
We had a mutual friend. He was very organized and
had money and was you know, interesting.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
But I freaked out.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
So I went to his therapist and he said, is
it David or is it marriage?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
What do you think? And I really didn't know.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
And also I must have had major hormones being pregnant,
and it just I was just really frozen all of
a sudden and wanted to kind of wait. And that
freaked David out because he was in this momentum of like,
we're doing this right, We're going to get engaged or
you know, and I just sort of freaked out, and
(42:25):
then that freaked him out, and then he sort of
never recovered from that in a way and trusted me
or something. It was. And so but even if he
had like said, well let's take it slow, not get
married right away or whatever, we were not compatible, you know,
but we were just texting today. I mean, we're very good,
(42:46):
very good co parenting. But my daughter did have two houses,
which was the sad part in a way, because I
think it was hard for her to go back and
forth like that. But you know, it's still kind of
worked out in the end, even though that was very
whirlwind in a whole different way.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
But you trusted your gut in a way that you
wouldn't maybe have done.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
That's true, and it worked out.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
He's a dutiful, great dad, you know, so generous, so involved,
a friend of mine, so thankfully I was there was
some good instinct.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
There coming up.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
IONI tells me about meeting Benley and about how a
casual fling became a relationship. The book sort of comes
to a close when you meet Benley, and well not
when you meet him, because you've known him for years.
He was the precocious kid hanging around the Beastie Boys
because he was on their record label.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Right yep.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
But one of your last great displays of honesty in
this pages is describing what happened after your I think
it's your second date, you have really great sex, and
then the next day, what do you do.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I called him because I thought he was this nice kid.
I've got him in my pocket. It's not a bad boy.
He's going to be so happy to have me, and
I text him morning sex or something, and then nothing,
and then the afternoon like how about now nothing, And
then I remembered I had his guitar in my car
that he left, and I was like, I have your
guitar and he was like, okay, bring it over, you know,
(44:18):
And I was like, okay, he wants his guitar back,
but he doesn't want me.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
So yeah, I was just too love attictee or whatever.
I was too like.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
High from the sex, and he was just a little
bit like this is just your energy is too crazy
right now. And so then I was so mad. I
was so embarrassed and mad and like the nerve. But
then my friend said just don't call him for like,
you know, two weeks. And then after ten days or something,
(44:50):
he was like, hello, where are you.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Let's hang out again.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And you guys have been together for sixteen years? Yeah, yeah,
and you have another daughter we do, and you live
part of the time here.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Well yeah, well right now we're based here, we rent
our house out in LA and we're happy right now,
really happy in Sydney.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
And you have during this whole period which isn't featured
in the book, I really hope there's a sequel.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Because I want to hear all about that.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But you have been doing all kinds of different things
work wise, art and directing and as you just said, acting,
writing this book. A lot of it is about relationships
and love. It is it's kind of like, without wanting
to again, do neat little bows. It's like love addiction
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Yeah, and you eat.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
A neat way of looking at it would be that
you did find love, but also yourself.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yes, I know it's funny trying.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
I just started writing and I was like, I'm never
mentioning the word love addiction, yeack, Like I didn't want
to name any like new age terms. But sometimes at
the end of the day, how can you say you
find yourself or take care of yourself without saying it?
But I guess that's you just have to say it.
But yes I did.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I am so it's not I don't think it's to
be ashamed of.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
No, I just don't want it to be sound crapy, cringey,
But I don't know. It's yeah, it's it's it's sort
of working out for myself. But yeah, I paint I'm
going to get into a nice painting phase again, I think,
and yeah, I like directing music videos and short films
and maybe a film one day or TV shows or something.
(46:30):
But yeah, I'm very inspired, and this is come at
a good time where I'm I mean, i feel like
I've always.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
Been up for it.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I'm like always kind of up for like good projects
and stuff like that. I've never consciously taken a break
like how some actors like take a break, And I
always feel a little bit annoyed by that because I'm like, you're, Oh,
you can take a break, because you're you're I've never
I can't. I have enough like dry periods. I don't
need to purposefully take a break and force upon it.
(47:01):
But yeah, so I'm up for what's coming.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I do have to ask you about the process of
writing the book. It is this a lot of difficult
stuff in there, although I think generally your spirit comes through.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It's a beautiful book.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
How do you feel with our lens now about teenage?
You and I sometimes think, you know how you said before,
I've got a fifteen year old daughter too. We look
at them and you realize how young they were and
how grown up we thought we were. Yeah, but I
sometimes wonder have we extended childhood you know what I mean?
Like gen X parents, Sure, but we still think they're
(47:37):
babies May twenty twenty one, whereas we by then we
thought we were wives, mothers, whatever.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, my twenty three year old does feel like a
young adult. But also yeah, anyway, I do think that
our generation are the kind of helicopter parent trying to
kind of make sure that our kids were okay emotionally,
like really too a very intense in an intense way.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
And I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I know there's a lot of like podcasts and people
trying to find out why are gen X parents? It's
kind of overprotective in a certain way. But yeah, I
don't know why we are.
Speaker 4 (48:15):
I mean, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Some people will have an idea, but yeah, she's she's
probably not.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I guess I want her to feel like a kid,
maybe because I wanted that for me.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
When you look back on that time, do you think
someone should have been looking out for me more? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (48:34):
In some ways, I mean my mom, God bless her, didn't.
She was not academic and did not she was almost
scared of authority, meaning just didn't understand it was sort
of had an aversion toward it, So I wish I'd
had more support with school. I felt very caught out there,
(48:55):
but she didn't know how, and it was a little
bit of a different time. The only kids who had
tutors were kids who were like what's the word abominable, bully,
bad or whatever, like really bad or really rich.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:10):
It sort of was like tutors were, you know, it.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Wasn't now everybody, you know, it seems I can have
someone come in and help.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
I guess not everybody, you know what I'm saying. So
I would have liked more support there, And I don't know, Yeah,
I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
She was pretty protective and talk to me about sex,
drugs and rock and roll. Like she was always very
kind of like talking to me about you know, being safe,
don't do anything. You know, if you need to smoke pot,
try to do it at home and don't leave the house.
So she was kind of protective. But anyway, I do. Yeah,
I guess I was a bit caught out there in
a certain ways.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Are you pleased that your girls me too? A girls too?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. They definitely have more boundaries even
with friends. Like if some of their friends are going
through something, both girls have told a teacher or a parent,
you know, that kind of thing, and they haven't like
hit it, like the kids whatever going you know, through
a hard time, and they're worried about them.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
So that's really great.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
And I think they're Yeah, they I mean, my fifteen
year old is just starting to date, but my older
one I think is really like different about whatever, all
that consent stuff.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
I hope, I think so. I hope.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Yeah, I think they are.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
They're much better at I feel like we maybe thought
we were powerful, but we actually weren't that powerful. They
probably have more power than us, which is a good thing,
really good. We talked a bit about the vulnerability of
being a teenager at that time, that it didn't feel
like there's as much surveillance as there is now. But
what about the beauty of that? Do you think in
a way we were lucky to have been doing all
(50:52):
out of our exploring at that time.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I do think that people are fascinated with the first
They were with the eighties, but the nineties too, because
even being in a celebrity group like that, I was
running around, we were still able. It made us feel
like we could still kind of be teens. And although
we were like wanting to be cool for one another,
(51:15):
it wasn't because you didn't have the cell phones and stuff.
You weren't like thinking about being that self conscious. If
it was in the public eye, it was like a
red carpet once in a while, which didn't happen all
the time, and then you would be photographed or if
you were photographed for a particular job, but it wasn't
this kind of you know, we were taking pictures for
(51:36):
each other with polaroid cameras, but it you know, it
wasn't this presentational thing which is relaxing and nice, and
you could kind of just be You could open a
door to party and see someone doing something like crazy,
you know, making out with you know, a famous presenter,
and no one's you know, taking pictures of that or
think whatever.
Speaker 4 (51:54):
It just was like freer in that way.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
And even just like going to a festival, you lose
your friends and then you find them again, and it's
just this like more random kind of thing. And I
think people even think they missed the randomness of having
the television tell you what they're going to watch. I mean,
I probably people would hate that now, but it's sort
of something about you're just like living your life in
(52:16):
a certain way that that feels kind of yeah, free
and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
I think we're now, we're more we're convinced we've got
more control because we can choose, But really, I don't
think we're doing.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
The choice side, that's true.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah, it was pretty fun and there wasn't as many
like stylists and you know, like actors looked like kind
of KOOKI there we go to like I don't know.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
If you go into the red carpet of River's.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Edge, you just yeah, some people were wearing you know,
like whatever, even like jeans. I mean, I always like
to dress up a little bit for better or worse,
you like sort of styling yourself and looking the way
you want to look.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Well freedom.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
The last thing I have to ask you for is
an Australian podcast. After all, you have been married to
an Australian for a long time. You live in la
you live in Sydney. What's the difference. What do you
love about Australia? Well, why have you enjoyed raising like
having the kids here?
Speaker 1 (53:12):
I mean, well, I probably live in the safest neighborhood
in the whole wide world, so that's kind of fun
to have that.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
I love.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
The public transportation is really great. They can walk around,
they can take the bus, they can I'm not really
worried about them in a certain way.
Speaker 4 (53:30):
I love, of course the birds.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
I'm like crazy about all the birds and the nature.
I mean, the lifestyle is incredible. I think digging into
Australia and not comparing it to like cities like whatever
city you like, London, New York, LA is the way
to go because it's like you can't hold it up again,
so you can kind of compare other cities to each other,
(53:53):
but you just I think you just have to dig
into what it is. And it's such a nice lifestyle.
I guess the complaint if you're like ambitious and artistic
is like.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
Where's the juice? Where's the juice?
Speaker 1 (54:04):
But we just went to Melbourne and totally had a
blast and felt really lit up about it. So it's
just a little harder to find that like electricity, but
I'll like definitely give that up to like enjoy the
I don't know, it's so nourishing and you know, but
but but getting friends like nurturing my girlfriends that I know.
(54:25):
That's a little trickier, I think, especially in Sydney, because
somewhere like Melbourne is there's these sort of artistic communities.
In certain ways, I think maybe more there's something. I
think Sydney people are just having their own they're having
such a good lifestyle that they don't need.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
Yeah, so I'm working on that.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Well, thank you very much. I've loved talking to you today.
I could talk to you for longer, but.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
I know you want to know. Was Iony Sky cool?
Was Iony Sky nice?
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Absolutely, she was warm and generous and lovely and in
my fa to see life. Obviously we're mates and Brent's
go and bush walking with Ben, but look, we all
need to still have troops now. Genuinely, I love Dione's
book and I loved that conversation. She's a beautiful writer
and a clear eyed storyteller, and I loved the non
judgmental way she unpacks what is truly shocking.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
Some of it in retrospect.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
If you want to hear more conversations with bold truth
telling women, I wouldn't be doing my job.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
If I didn't point you towards our episode with Gina Chick,
and if you.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Want to hear more about being an eighties nineties icon,
then there's my conversation with the impossibly lovely Ali Daddo
on being one of the original Australian supermodels and marrying
a very different kind of it boy.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
Thank you so much for listening to mid It means
the world.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
If you love the show, rate it, review it, share
it with a friend, and many thanks to our production
team Executive producer Namer Brown, our senior producer Grays Through Ray,
our producer Charlie Blackman.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
There's been audio production from Jacob Brown in next week
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. I wanted to be her,
me and all my friends, all us semi cool girls
the nineties, all ahead of us, pouring over the pages
of hard to find magazines, studying the real thing, exotic
(00:35):
creatures at home in downtown LA or New York and
not in the.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Dreary suburbs of wherever.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Beautiful but not trying too hard, a little undone, a
little unclean, a little floaty, a little drifty, hinting and
a hard edge. Hanging with the boys in the band,
friends with Keanu and River, invited to the cool parties,
cameoing in the cool films, drinking, not drunk, smoking, not stoned, unbothered, untethered,
(01:04):
uninterested in convention, monogamy, matrimony.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Just there, you know, just hanging.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It didn't occur to me, not really, that the cool
girls didn't seem to say anything. You couldn't say much then,
not really. We didn't have cameras and mics and the
ability to broadcast out every thought in our hands all
day and all night. We looked on at the silent ones,
cigarettes drooping between their fingers, our faces smoothed against the
(01:31):
smudged glass of clubs too cool for us, and we
imagined and projected and swooned. Nineties cool girls didn't sell out,
they didn't speak out. They didn't make a fuss about
anything at all. Until now, Hello, I'm Holly Wainwright and
I am mid midlife, midfamily, mid stumbled down memory Lane.
(01:57):
Ione Sky was the coolest of the nineties cool girls
to me, even the name, especially the name, but also
the attitude, the aloofness that was likely shyness, the arty,
floaty boho vibe sprinkled with a glinty dusting of grune.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
If you don't know who Ione Sky is, you.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Need to think back to say anything the iconic eighties
teen movie with John Cusack holding up that most eighties.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Of things, the boombox.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Or you need to think back to River's Edge with
Keanu Reeves, or gas food lodging or the Rachel Papers.
Or you need to think back to all the cool
people of the time and just look to their left.
There's Ione at the heart of so many essential scenes.
She was a rock star kid hanging out over at
Mick Jagger's house, Frank Zappa's house. She was teenage friends
(02:49):
with River Phoenix, teenage girlfriend to the Red Hot Chili Peppers,
Anthony Keidis, young wife to Ad Rock, a beastie boy
for God's sake, welcomed into Madonna's circle until she started
dating all her female exes. Married now to iconic Australian
musician Ben Lee for well over a decade, deeply la actress,
(03:11):
artist and a mother who lives happily in Sydney. Then
on jeenws, as they were literally called, were often silent
and often known by the dudes they hung out with.
And Ione Sky knows that, and that's why her book
Say Everything is such a glorious, pent up outpouring of
story and gossip and validation of girlhood and womanhood and
(03:32):
romance and sexuality and what it was like to come
of age in literally a different time. She writes beautifully
about all those scenes I just mentioned, and also, and
we talk about this today, it's pretty adult conversation about
drugs and sex and.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Cheating and longing and all of it.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I think you can tell when Ione and I started
talking that I'm just.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
A little excited about getting to meet her.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'd been listening and reading to say everything for days,
and I felt like I was immersed in that world
I always wondered about. So anyway, come and find out
what it was like on the other side of that
smudgy glass. In my conversation with Ione's guy, I only
have already told you off Mike how much I adored
this book.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I listened to it, I read it. It was very
cathartic for me, because I'm sure I'm not the only
gen X woman who feels like this. But when I
was young, I was like wishing I was living your life.
I was going out with the guy who had the
bad red hot chili peppers tattoo and the like anti
kids drug habit, but he definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Wasn't Anthony Kiddish ah ha.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And you know I had Keanu Reeves and River Phoenix
on my walls.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
When I was reading this.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's so interesting because you're like, that was the life
so many people wanted, did you. We're going to get
to all the ins and outs of that later, But
when you were in all that and you were at
the epicenter of all these different scenes, like the cool
indie movie scenes, the music scene, the art scene, the
clubbing scene in the nineties. Did it feel like that
that you were in the middle of things.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, I definitely felt excited to be with you know, Sparkly,
the famous see people. So it didn't it wasn't just
like any teens life. It was because I was still
a teen having the same emotions and crushes and so
my level of emotions were probably like most teenagers you
(05:26):
know at that age. But I definitely was aware and
over excited and excited about knowing like kind of actors
and musicians and stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So it wasn't it wasn't boring.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
It wasn't boring.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
It wasn't like, you know, it's like anybody, and you
know I was. I think I was aware, like this
is exciting.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Your memoir it sort of starts from your childhood and
goes through pretty much to when you meet Bentley, who
is your Australian legend husband, and you dip in and
out of these different scenes in different moments. And one
of the things I loved about the way it's written
is that when you're there, you're really there, so you
write it in place almost so you are the little
(06:05):
girl in Frozen Connecticut with the little parrakeets that freeze
to death in the kitchen, and then you are the
confused teenager who's trying to seduce Keanu Reeves. And was
there like a witchy trick to getting your mind back
in those places?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Well, there was a choice or not a choice.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
But I had an awareness that if I'm writing and
I'm eight years old in this part of the story,
I'm not going to have the you know, objective overview
kind of you know, look upon what I was going through.
I'm going to be in the eight year old's emotions,
so I'm not going to have an adult emotion. So
I kind of consciously, intellectually knew that. But I also
(06:47):
have a really good ability to remember how I felt,
and I had a lot of journals.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I have a good long term memory.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
For some reason, I must have been obsessed with my
own life, because I was already writing stories, especially in
my junior high which you know, twelve thirteen year old
first crushes. I was already kind of writing little story
about that. So I think it's like being a little bit,
I don't know, obsessed with my own life, but I
do remember. So I kind of had a great ability
(07:18):
to remember how I felt so that really helped, because
that's kind of where I started how I felt. I
was just able to kind of, yeah, maybe it's a
witchy thing.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I was just kind of able to go back there
and remember I could put myself back there.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
What's right about that is that you're not writing it
with a judgmental eye from afar. I mean, you touch
a bit in the epilogue of the book, and we'll
get to all this about how you feel now about
some of the things you went through as a teenager.
But when you're just in it, you're just in it.
And I really really like that.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I didn't want it to be moralistic or I
just have an aversion in general to people knowing it all,
or I have the answers, you know, I don't mind
if someone gives advice and you want it, or if
you learn how things people do things that help you, whatever.
But I definitely didn't want it, like and now I
(08:11):
know how to do everything, and that then was so
bad and now is good.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Like I just.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Didn't want that kind of I wanted to kind of
just make it like in the middle of the experience
and not have a judgment, you know, although I'm very
hard on myself clearly in the book, but you know,
I didn't want it to have a tone of judgment.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You are, but it also feels very real in the
way that girls are hard on themselves. Yeah, I mean,
I really love your honesty throughout it. But for those
who haven't read it, just to paint a bit of
a scene, you grow up mostly in Los Angeles with
your mom and your brother Donna, who you're very close to.
It's a really enviable relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I think that one.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It's a bohemian life, I guess you could say, right. So,
your father is the sixties.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
We say he's not a pop star. He was like
a folk legend, psychedelic.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Kind of guy, and who had this almost mythical status
on that scene, in the sixties scene. But you never
knew him, You didn't grow up with him, he wasn't around,
and you didn't actually get to meet him till your teens.
But the times you tell about your childhood, particularly in
LA in this little apartment with your mom and your
(09:24):
brother and all these interesting characters are coming in and
out because your mom is a very well connected woman,
and she deals pot and she loves you fiercely, but
she's not that big on rules. That part of it
sounds kind of great. Your relationship with your.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Mom, it was, yeah, yeah, my mother is just was
kind of born to be a mom in a way,
and even though she was Bohemian and even though she
wanted this sixties kind of lifestyle, she really at the
end of the day, her happy kind of life was
being a mom, cooking dinners, having an open house, which
(10:00):
meant just like brunches and making dinner and having friends
come over for dinner, like sort of domestic. Sort of
funny because she is a hippie, because she's sort of
loving and has an open heart, and she she just
loves like taking care of people.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
She's non judgmental mental.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
But at the end of the day, it was just like,
you know, go to bed, and you know, cook us breakfast.
You know, she would tell us to go to you know.
So those were the kind of rules, the basic parenting rules,
but bohemian in a way that a lot of kind
of artistic types around, a lot of single mothers around,
so I didn't really grow up with traditional families like
(10:43):
mom and dad with a straight job where the dad
goes to work.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
It was definitely very loosey goosey in that sense.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Some of your best friends were other girls who had
famous dads. It's not his clubs that I guess I'd
never considered exists.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I know, I thought it was so like, wow, this
is so mystical.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
But when I thought about it, you know, they were
just my mom was friends with these women and they
were in a scene and all they all sort of
hung out at the whiskey or in London at a party,
and it just these were the kind of women who
were into musicians and the scenes.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So so it's.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Sort of like you throw a rock and you're going
to hit another, like you know, single mom who had
a kid with a famous you know, sixties icon.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So it's Caros Jagger, Amelia Fleetwood, the Zappa's.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, the Zappa's.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And then later my friend Zoe Cassavetti's who Jenna Rowlands
and John Cassavetti's daughter. So yeah, I mean, I guess
being in La and just this scene, you know, the
parents were all kind of in a scene together. My
mom briefly knew Zoe Cassavetti's father years ago in New York,
so it was kind of like made sense. But because
(11:53):
people were famous and stuff. It felt like there was
something a little more like spooky about how we all
became friends. But it really was just like that scene.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Also, those girls, you all had a similar story, but
there were different levels of connection with these famous dads.
So Kros did have a relationship with Mick and you're
quite jealous of it. But then and then Amelia didn't
so much. And you all had these different stories, but
it is this interesting world where you have all got
this thing in common.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, they had more interaction and their dads were more, yeah,
more involved, you know, in their own way.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Your honesty is extraordinary in this book. It's one of
things I love about it is, you know, shy away
from the things you wanted, which I think is often
like women aren't encouraged to talk about their desires, whether
it's to fit in, because it's actually I found it
really touching. You go to a Maculate Heart, which I
think is the school that Megan Marka went to. Yes,
(12:48):
so Catholic, quite conservative Catholic school. For a while, you
really want to go, You talk your mom into going,
and there there's this group of girls called the Aprils,
and you want to be part of them. You also
have your first crush in that situation. Tell me about
do you think that because this childhood you were in,
which sounds so glamorous but was as you said about
Lucy Goosey, did it just looks so appealing that sort
(13:10):
of waspy world.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, it really did.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I must have picked up on my mother's insecurity about
you know, paying the rent, and it just felt untethered
in a certain way. And so yeah, I was very
drawn and attracted to security. And I think my mother
was looking for security and marrying her you know, my
(13:35):
stepfather's and she was really looking for security. So I
think for me going to a school that was structured
and then all of the preppy girls with their kind
of ordered lives, it looked like it was functioning. And
so I was really drawn to that up until later
when I met my first daughter's father, who also had
(13:55):
a very he's very ordered, and he had money and
was very preppy, and so I sort of thought that
was like very together, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
And also I can picture the esthetic of that because
at that time that kind of like the little school
girly kilts and all the references you have in that
time to the things you wanted.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Yeah, they just take you right back.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
There you really wanted them, and then you wanted to
be in April, but you were too flaky, yeah, or
too creative.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Too creative, Yeah, I never could be. I never could
be like that one hundred percent. And I still think
I want to be like that, but I probably don't.
Like if all of a sudden I knew how to
do all of those things, I don't know, I could
use being a little more organized and decorating a house
the way I really want to. But you know, I'll
(14:46):
get there one day.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Then you talk really honestly, and I think this is
quite I hate to use the word brave, but about
the fact that you were. But you were a horny
teenager right as we all were. But now it's almost like,
I don't know, you can't say it. This is such
a big conversation, which I think is very right about
sexualizing kids.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Sure, I know, yeah, yeah, I mean I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I was just because biologically and just physically at that
age you are. But I wasn't horny toward other people
in the way that I was. You know, Thank God
that you can have your own experiences with yourself because
you discover this and you run a back and because
I never I wasn't like I need to do this
(15:33):
with someone else, like I definitely that's actually weird, strangely
because the book you can see I'm quite you know, open,
and I have a lot of lovers in my life,
but I it's taken me a very long time to
actually feel really comfortable sleeping with somebody, you know, in
a deeper sense. But yeah, I was just like a
(15:53):
normal teenager who was like very revved up. But I
wasn't like I need to like start sort of getting
with people, as they say. But I was more romantically
and intrigued. I started having intrigues at that age. So
with you know, the head of the Queen of the April,
Queen of April, and then getting the star football player,
(16:17):
that was more intriguing and almost like made me feel
like powerful as a person. So it wasn't like my
body wasn't really like taking me there. It was more
like my you know, like my emotions and my romance
and my intrigue.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You get your first role in the movie River's Edge,
and Keanu Reeves is in it, which because of course
lucky me, I know, right, and you write brilliantly and
beautifully about how you set you fifteen right yeifteen, and
you you talk about how to get the part and
(16:54):
work in Hollywood, you had to be emancipated from your mother,
which was kind of you know, from outside Hollywood. You
read about all the stars of the time who did that,
And as I understood it in your book, it's kind
of so that you don't have to go to school
and you can work long hour and you can be passed.
But it sounds as if you're cast a drift. But
actually you didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I didn't know, but I always thought it was sort
of a bad thing. But to be honest, I don't
know anyone who was overworked from being emancipated. But Drew Barrymore,
who I just spoke to recently, Drew Barrymore was emancipated,
and for her it helped her actually because she was
(17:35):
able to take control I guess, of her mother money
and have more control sort of boundaries with her mother.
So for her it actually was a good thing in
that way. For me, it didn't really do much. It
kind of gave me a little more of a feeling
like I was a grown up before I was a
(17:55):
grown up, So that might have been a negative, because
I think it would have been good for me to
remember I was a kid for a little bit longer.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
On that set, you very understandably fancy Keana quite a lot. Yeah,
and you right again with brilliant honesty about sort of
trying to seduce him. Yeah, but he was a no.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
No, he's a no and he and the good thing was,
which I sort of expressed in the book, not that clearly,
but maybe that I don't think I would have been ready,
even though I thought I was. I think I just
because I was acting and doing a grown ups job. Essentially,
I was, like I thought, and I was hanging out
(18:38):
with grown ups because I'm doing a movie with you know,
the crew and the directors are grown up, and you're
all of a sudden like kind of being treated like
a grown up. But also we were probably annoying teenagers
on the set where they're like, come on.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
We have to film this.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Where are you guys like running around? Anyway, I think
I was under the illusion I was older than I was,
So I think I was sort of kind of relieved
because I think it would have been weird for me
and so he was a gentleman.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
He sounds he sounds great.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, he really is.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And in this time that you're in that scene. But
then you write in the book that you think there
was a you before you started dating Anthony Ketis and after,
and you write very honestly about that relationship and how
you were a child but you were not forced, but
you found yourself in this very adult role of trying
(19:32):
to save this guy who.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Was in the throes of addiction.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Was it really painful to go back to that and
have the feelings that I'm sure you do have about
that version of you.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I mean, there is this one point where in the book,
I'm at this actress Martha Plimpton's and it's kind of
miring sort of the end where I'm starting to kind
of take care of myself a little bit better emotionally.
And the only good thing about straying so far from
(20:06):
myself and like not being in touch with like how
are you doing? How are you feeling? Was that the
coming back to myself is so sweet.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's like the kind of it's kind of a big,
memorable sort of time to kind of just like, oh
I am you know, here I need to take care
of myself kind of moment. But other than that, it
was just I was, I don't know why, I'm the
type of person that was prone to looking after someone
like that. And fortunately I like didn't repeat.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
It like I you know, I.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It almost gave me a like a you know, I
don't know. I just was almost like an aversion to that.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
People like that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
True because it didn't set a pattern, which it does
for a lot of people. Because one of the things
I really appreciated about that you talking so honestly about
that period in the book is although the circumstances are
extreme in that he's a rock star, he's becoming a
rock star, and you're, you know, living seemingly glamorous life,
but a lot of women find themselves in relationships like
that where their needs a last they are you know,
(21:17):
you're right that Anthony didn't hit you. But he could
be cruel, he could be dismissive, he would disappear, he
would cheat, But you lots and lots of women get
themselves in relationships like that, and it doesn't have to
be it doesn't have to ruin your life. I don't know,
I guess I appreciated that that you were so honest
about it, rather than sort of moralizing about all those
(21:41):
relationships being negative, which obviously it is, but it's an
experience that's really yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean, I feel bad when I think of myself
back then and how stressed and scared and miserable it was.
And I definitely warmed my hands around the fire of
destructive people like a lot, and you know, was a
little destructive myself here and there. So I mean, and
I was sort of clear with my kids, like recently
(22:09):
said to my fifteen year old who finally started one
of her friends started reading the book because I was
sort of like, not, I didn't tell her not to
read it, but I kind of didn't want her to
read it yet, even though she knows a little bit
about me. But her friend picked it up and he
loves reading and was like, couldn't put it down.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
And then my daughter was like, you know, so.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I just said, just so you know, like me dabbling
in drugs and stuff, it was destructive, Like there's a
adventurous like trying something out, and then there's a like.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Just to sort of make it clear what.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
The line is with that with like being curious versus
like a little bit there's times where it's a little
bit of a destructive side.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
In any case, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It was hard, but I also, thankfully, I don't know
if it's my mom or what, I kind of always
would kind of pull out before and kind of go
back to taking care of myself, which and then ultimately
always kind of go in that direction for the most part,
which is I don't know, something amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It is amazing because it's not always what happens. But
it also sounds like your mom. I got this sense
of almost like this sort of glowing has you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
That Yeah, could go back there exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It didn't look like the picket fancy thing that people
think you have to build.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
No, it's a loving home. Yes, but you knew you.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Could go Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And my mother said to me, this book has been
so even brought us closer.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
We're already close, but she said.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
To me, maybe a week ago, you know, I didn't
get very strict with you when you were with Anthony
and when you moved into that apartment with him, because
I wanted you to know you could come home, and
in fact, in the end It was in her living room,
hanging out when she was playing poker with all her
friends who I knew most of my life, who were
(23:59):
wonderful friends, in the warmth of her household, and her
being very like, I'm here for you, which made me
kind of snap out of it. So I kept going
back home even when I lived with Anthony, and you know,
so thankfully she wasn't like the kind of parent who
like cut me off or something.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
She played the long game in it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, seemed to her, Yeah, what did you do to think?
By the way, when she was reading those chapters, she was.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Just sort of like, you know, asking about drug parts,
and she just sort of would ask. But she she's
not judgmental herself. She's still a kid. I mean, it's
funny to see she's fifteen and I view her as
a kid. So it's funny that I thought when I
was fifteen, I was not a kid anymore. So, I
(24:46):
you know, she's just sort of like, oh, I didn't
know you tried that twice or whatever, and I would
just you know, I I'm very you know, open with her,
but yeah, I don't know. She I don't know actually
what she thinks I should ask her. She's proud of me,
I can see because the book's doing well and people
like it. But I don't know what she thinks about
(25:08):
it exactly, but I'll.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Coming up after this shortbreak.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Ione shares what it was like to have friends like
Big Jagger and Madonna and how Madonna really felt about Ione.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Dating her exis.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Another place that you're very honest is when you talk
about cheating, right, because after Anthony and you pull yourself
out and you meet Adam Horowitz and that's this is
embarrassing for you and for me. But the me and Ione,
because she's the cheese and I'm the macaroni line is
iconic in my childhood.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yes, child that may be one of the coolest things
to have Q tip, you know, rap about us and
then just being that to me. I mean, I guess
not everybody thinks the Beast Boys are great, but I do.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I got of course they're great.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
I know, I do.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I'm always amazed when people aren't into them because I was, like,
I think of them as such an incredible band.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Anyway, Yeah, it's so that's so fun for me.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So you meet Adam, you say he's the complete It's
such a different relationship. It's sunshine and it's love and
it's fun and it's light, and you get married. Really
you're young when you get married and you start living
a different kind of life. But you're very honest about
the fact that ultimately one of the things that brought
(26:32):
that marriage done was your infidelity.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Again, that's hashtag brave talk about.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
In that way in your book, but it's also for
you that was also part of your sexual your journey
with sexuality, because you were cheating mostly with women.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah. Yeah, so there was a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
One I just had to explore my bisexuality.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
That just was like gonna happen. And I did it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Feel like a knocking on the door that just wasn't
going away?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And I just I think I think had I been
brave hashtag brave enough, I would have we would have
broken up and said, this was an amazing you know,
a few years, but I need.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
To like just do this.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
But I was too attached to being safe and married,
so I kind of thought I could do it both,
even though it was sort of miserable of course, to
do it both at.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
The same time. But yeah, it was it was just
I wasn't ready.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I didn't want to break up, but nothing was going
to stop me from kind of exploring that. And then
there was the third thing, which was I noticed that
I was very when we had separation.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I just couldn't.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I didn't feel like emotionally I was he was ever
going to come back?
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Or is something maybe because of it?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Every time he went on tour, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Mean yeah, exactly, Like intellectually I knew and he was
so devoted and sweet and had no pattern of being
you know, he would always call and he didn't cheat,
he was there, but it's still felt I would feel
very anxious. So there was like sort of three things
going on at the same time that I didn't want
to leave, I did want to explore, and I also
(28:23):
wasn't aware that I was actually sort of he was
coming back and all of that.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Around this time, you get briefly invited into Madonna's world.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about that. Yeah, that's
like a whole other level of oh yeah, celebrity, I.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Know, yeah, so funny.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I don't know if she was interested in me because
I knew.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Some of her friends, or I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I mean, you know, invited to I think through Ingrid Casaris,
you know, invited to a couple of her dinner parties,
you know, one in Florida and one in LA and
then we just had sometimes we're in the same kind
of social thing. And I hung out with her like
a couple times in New York. And but of course
I remember every single moment because I was just like
(29:11):
recording it with my mind.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So it did feel she was like a level of
famous that is trumpsend.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yes, a beastie boy.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, because I became friendly with John Taylor from Duran
Durant And if you had told me at fourteen, I
would know any because those were not my beatles but
kind of Duran Duran and you know, I mean Adamant.
I suppose Billy Idol, but Duran Duran. It was like Beatlemania.
And so I would have like been like, what, I'm
(29:45):
not gonna I would hang out. But when I did
hang out with John Taylor, he was so nice. He
was married to my friend Amanda Decadiney and just sweet
and it felt kind of, you know, sort of like
hanging out with a person and I almost would forget, oh,
this is someone from Duranduran, but Mick Jagger and Madonna
I never ever can get over anytime ever thinking head
(30:09):
this is I'm sitting with Mick Jagger.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I'm sitting with Mick Jagger.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Like, I don't know, I think I would probably do
that with Bob Dylan and yeah, certain, yeah, people, there's
just this level where you're still just like, I'm sitting
with this person. And with Madonna, it's I mean, I
love her, you know, her music and her thing, but
it's sort of also just she She's so such a
big personality.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't know, you dated a couple of her exes.
Did she approve or disapprove of this?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I think that might have been the reason why she
was sort of like intrigued. And I didn't rub her
the wrong way, because she's can be kind of like
rough with people, and if she's not into you, you
will know it and she'll be kind of like a
mean girl about it. So for some reason I did
not rub her the wrong way.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You did not get cast out.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
No, there's a touching scene in the book where you
with Adam in New York and you want to go
out clubbing because you've started you're moving in this world
now with your brother, of this nineties club world and
there are supermodels and they're like it's a whole thing
flying to London for a party of night and Adam's like,
you're getting ready to go out and He's like, I
don't want it.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Oh yeah, he was not. I mean, you know, he
just first they done it.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
The fashion scene did not excite him as much as
I don't know why. I mean, I find fashion inspiring,
you know, I do find like really great you know,
pieces whatever inspiring. But he definitely for him, he had
partied and gone out at really good clubs. His timing
(31:45):
dance Aterria and different clubs in New York. I was
he's a little bit older than me. I kind of
there was a club in LA called power Tools that
was really good. But when I started to want to
go out, it was like in the nineties and there
were some fun clubs in London.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
I won't be able to remember the names.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And you know, I don't know, I just like I
didn't feel like going out when I was when the
clubs were really good or whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
So the timing did not work out.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Just when I wanted to go out, it was when
I was married and he was like, I've done this, like,
you know, you should do this. You've never gone out
to clubs and lived your life that way, you should
do it. And I was like, no, no, but I
don't want to like he yeah, so he was not like,
you know, he wasn't in the mood and the model scene.
(32:34):
I loved hanging out with the models, and I was following,
you were my brother around.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Him, Yeah, you were modeling for a while, and he
obviously is a model.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
My brother.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, my brother was doing it and his he had
a band and it was really fun.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
My brother had a band and it was really fun.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
To go around with his band, and Adam loved to
see my brother perform in his band.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
But yeah, there was a.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Little bit of a divide there, like hanging out with
models wasn't his favorite thing.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I would imagine it's intimidating, but you.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Oh yeah, absolutely. Also, I just looked at them like,
I mean, they were you know, you know, Amber Valletta
and Shalom Harlowe and Kate Moss wasn't around. I didn't
hang out with her as much as you know, Christie's group,
but it was Kate Moss was best friends at the time.
With Noie Campbell, and so they I hung out a
(33:28):
bit with them, but I just viewed them as, like,
you know, works of art.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I mean I was, I was sort of a mess.
I was amazed by them.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
To close out this chapter, you talk in the book
about how obviously drugs were everywhere, and you'd been through
this experience with Anthony, and you had tried heroin and
you try cocaine. But you say in the book, I'm
lucky I didn't get hooked. You must have seen a
lot of people around. Well, I know you did. River
Phoenix was a very good friend of yours, and you
(33:57):
write beautifully in the book about the shock of that loss.
But do you think it is luck? Do you think
it is what's your insight into that I've seen?
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah, I don't know. I do think it's sure.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I guess there's like the genetic component, and there's I
don't know what it is. I mean, I guess there's
a couple of different theories. But you know, then you'll
have a family where one is a drug addict and
one's not, and I don't know, it's sort of random.
And also sometimes it does run in the family.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
And then you enjoyed it but to it, but you
could say no.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, I guess I just didn't. I mean, there was
a period where I smoked so much weed. We used
to call it pot. But now my kids are like pot.
And then when I thought like weed was sort of
now anyway, I used smoke tons of weed until before kids.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Then I made me paranoid.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
And also, I don't know, I just sort of stopped
doing stuff when I had.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Kids and then so anyway, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I just I mean, I liked coke, and I've tried
ecstasy twice, but I don't know why. I feel like
I should have done more ecstasy when it was good,
because now I guess you can't find it.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I just kind of I don't know. I guess I
just realized.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I think I thought I probably could get hooked, and
I just avoided doing it too much.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
I don't know, but I have no idea. My mom
maybe because.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
She's you know, she's sort of smoked pop, but she
never did any It wasn't part of that.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, the divorce breaks you, and for for me, one
of the most poignant parts in this book is that
so it breaks you but also it sounds like as
I'm reading and listening to it that it also you
like you kind of get to live.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Your life a bit.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Then you've been so defined by these were not defined
by because you'd worked through these relationships. You were making
movies and you're working. But it's like you get to
see who you are.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yes, yes, yeah that was At the time I felt
so like kind of lost and freaked out. But looking back,
even a few years after, if I would look back,
I would feel so so fond about that time. I
mean it was I was so lucky to be in
my twenties living in New York City in an apartment,
(36:16):
and my one best friend lived a bummy one lived
below me. My brother was still in New York. There
was a club that we used to go to like
walking distance. I was so fortunate to be able to
do that. Like it's so I mean, I guess people
still do it, but I don't know. It was a
time where I was alone with myself and I was
painting and just decorating this little apartment, and it was
(36:38):
really just such a beautiful time.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
It really was.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
You do talk in the book about how the period
that you were in Hollywood, and I mean you've lived
in Hollywood, but when you were in these movies, it
was the Ngeneux kind of era. In fact, you say,
when you get the part and say anything, skipping back
a bit, you literally your friend says to you, Cameron
(37:03):
Crowe's looking for an engineer.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, and you're like, that could be me. I know,
what was the role being a nongeneu?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
And also I know, as we've said, we don't want
to look back with all of our knowledge and judgment
from now, but was there a point where you were like,
hold on, like John Kusack on that movie's getting input
into the script. Yeah, you know, he's kind of throwing
his weight around a bit, not in a negative way,
but your role and it seemed almost also as a
(37:33):
rock girlfriend A little.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Bit is like was it like that?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
And did it take you a while to go? Was
there a time when you went hold on? What do
I think about that?
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I mean, on one hand, I do say in the
book sort of like there was the feeling that you
just sat by the men and just kind of like
laughed and listened to them. And I still have that
a little bit, Like I just did this movie called
Ana Konda and the Gold Coast and I played Jack
Black's wife, and Paul Rudder is in it. Right, You've
(38:03):
just done that and it's coming out Christmas. This movie
Anna Konda is so fun. And I would hang out
with you know, all Read and Jack Black are like hilarious,
and we'd be hanging out in between takes, and my
instinct was just to let them laugh and joke together.
And then I was like, hang on, I like joking,
and so I had to encourage myself. But Cameron Crowe,
(38:24):
John Cusack, Anthony Keatis even they did care about what
I had to say. And we had very deep, intellectual,
lively conversations about you know, music.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
And whatever things. So I did have that.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
But in work aspect, I felt like, there's this one
story I'm thinking about Mary Louise Parker, the actress, and
she was in this TV show Weeds or something, and
I remember hearing her give notes on the script for
the TV show. So it's an actress in her probably
(39:02):
almost thirty, giving notes, and my thought was, how difficult. Well,
somebody said she's being difficult, and no one would say
a man was being difficult unless he was being annoying.
But it was like even then, that was in the
early two thousands. For a woman who's like thirty on it,
(39:22):
she's the lead on this TV show, for her to
be giving notes was difficult, and it's just like, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
We internalized a lot of you know, don't be the
squeaky wheel, make things cool. If you be cool, yeah,
it would be cool. Don't be troubled. Yeah, I feel
that that was very much a gen X thing.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Anyway, back to your astonishing honesty. So you've broken up,
your marriage has ended, You've had this wonderful period of
sort of figuring out what's next, getting through the heartbreak.
You write beautifully about that heartbreak, by the way, very
relatable too. But when you decide you want to be
a mother, it sort of comes upon you all at once.
You literally call your friend and you're like, we need
(40:08):
to find me in a husband is basically what you say.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I had never been set up before because there was
always so many interesting people around it. It felt like
there was almost too many people to try to date
when I was younger, And maybe this is the case
for a lot of people. If I guess if they're lucky.
And then it's sort of not that it dries up
a little, but yeah, just when I wanted to have
a kid, then all of a sudden, I looked around.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
It was like, wait, who can be my husband now?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
And it seemed but it was a very witchy moment
that Amelia Fleeper and I like literally did that manifestation list,
a horny, corny list. And then our friend called the
next day, which is so odd, said I've got a guy.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
I've got someone for you. And I said, that's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
We're just writing this manifestation list.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Maybe they do work.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
The thing about this is that you're sort of sort
of almost auditioned by him to be your wife. Yeah,
and you hit it off, and you get pregnant, you
get engaged, and you move into sort of the preppy
fantasy in my mind.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Obviously I'm not familiar with this world.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I'm thinking of like Charlotte York's apartment in.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Sex and the City.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but that time, and I know we
don't want to tie things in neat little bows, but
that time, as the planning the wedding approached and motherhood approached,
you pulled yourself back, said something happened where you went,
This isn't actually my dream.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
Yeah, I really didn't know.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Uh, Like I got cold feet, We got engaged, I
was pregnant. It all happened very fast. I loved his friends.
We had a mutual friend. He was very organized and
had money and was you know, interesting.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
But I freaked out.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
So I went to his therapist and he said, is
it David or is it marriage?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
What do you think? And I really didn't know.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
And also I must have had major hormones being pregnant,
and it just I was just really frozen all of
a sudden and wanted to kind of wait. And that
freaked David out because he was in this momentum of like,
we're doing this right, We're going to get engaged or
you know, and I just sort of freaked out, and
(42:25):
then that freaked him out, and then he sort of
never recovered from that in a way and trusted me
or something. It was. And so but even if he
had like said, well let's take it slow, not get
married right away or whatever, we were not compatible, you know,
but we were just texting today. I mean, we're very good,
(42:46):
very good co parenting. But my daughter did have two houses,
which was the sad part in a way, because I
think it was hard for her to go back and
forth like that. But you know, it's still kind of
worked out in the end, even though that was very
whirlwind in a whole different way.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
But you trusted your gut in a way that you
wouldn't maybe have done.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
That's true, and it worked out.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
He's a dutiful, great dad, you know, so generous, so involved,
a friend of mine, so thankfully I was there was
some good instinct.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
There coming up.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
IONI tells me about meeting Benley and about how a
casual fling became a relationship. The book sort of comes
to a close when you meet Benley, and well not
when you meet him, because you've known him for years.
He was the precocious kid hanging around the Beastie Boys
because he was on their record label.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Right yep.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
But one of your last great displays of honesty in
this pages is describing what happened after your I think
it's your second date, you have really great sex, and
then the next day, what do you do.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I called him because I thought he was this nice kid.
I've got him in my pocket. It's not a bad boy.
He's going to be so happy to have me, and
I text him morning sex or something, and then nothing,
and then the afternoon like how about now nothing, And
then I remembered I had his guitar in my car
that he left, and I was like, I have your
guitar and he was like, okay, bring it over, you know,
(44:18):
And I was like, okay, he wants his guitar back,
but he doesn't want me.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
So yeah, I was just too love attictee or whatever.
I was too like.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
High from the sex, and he was just a little
bit like this is just your energy is too crazy
right now. And so then I was so mad. I
was so embarrassed and mad and like the nerve. But
then my friend said just don't call him for like,
you know, two weeks. And then after ten days or something,
(44:50):
he was like, hello, where are you.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Let's hang out again.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And you guys have been together for sixteen years? Yeah, yeah,
and you have another daughter we do, and you live
part of the time here.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Well yeah, well right now we're based here, we rent
our house out in LA and we're happy right now,
really happy in Sydney.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
And you have during this whole period which isn't featured
in the book, I really hope there's a sequel.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Because I want to hear all about that.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
But you have been doing all kinds of different things
work wise, art and directing and as you just said, acting,
writing this book. A lot of it is about relationships
and love. It is it's kind of like, without wanting
to again, do neat little bows. It's like love addiction
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Yeah, and you eat.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
A neat way of looking at it would be that
you did find love, but also yourself.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yes, I know it's funny trying.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
I just started writing and I was like, I'm never
mentioning the word love addiction, yeack, Like I didn't want
to name any like new age terms. But sometimes at
the end of the day, how can you say you
find yourself or take care of yourself without saying it?
But I guess that's you just have to say it.
But yes I did.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I am so it's not I don't think it's to
be ashamed of.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
No, I just don't want it to be sound crapy, cringey,
But I don't know. It's yeah, it's it's it's sort
of working out for myself. But yeah, I paint I'm
going to get into a nice painting phase again, I think,
and yeah, I like directing music videos and short films
and maybe a film one day or TV shows or something.
(46:30):
But yeah, I'm very inspired, and this is come at
a good time where I'm I mean, i feel like
I've always.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
Been up for it.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I'm like always kind of up for like good projects
and stuff like that. I've never consciously taken a break
like how some actors like take a break, And I
always feel a little bit annoyed by that because I'm like, you're, Oh,
you can take a break, because you're you're I've never
I can't. I have enough like dry periods. I don't
need to purposefully take a break and force upon it.
(47:01):
But yeah, so I'm up for what's coming.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I do have to ask you about the process of
writing the book. It is this a lot of difficult
stuff in there, although I think generally your spirit comes through.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It's a beautiful book.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
How do you feel with our lens now about teenage?
You and I sometimes think, you know how you said before,
I've got a fifteen year old daughter too. We look
at them and you realize how young they were and
how grown up we thought we were. Yeah, but I
sometimes wonder have we extended childhood you know what I mean?
Like gen X parents, Sure, but we still think they're
(47:37):
babies May twenty twenty one, whereas we by then we
thought we were wives, mothers, whatever.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, my twenty three year old does feel like a
young adult. But also yeah, anyway, I do think that
our generation are the kind of helicopter parent trying to
kind of make sure that our kids were okay emotionally,
like really too a very intense in an intense way.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
And I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I know there's a lot of like podcasts and people
trying to find out why are gen X parents? It's
kind of overprotective in a certain way. But yeah, I
don't know why we are.
Speaker 4 (48:15):
I mean, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Some people will have an idea, but yeah, she's she's
probably not.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I guess I want her to feel like a kid,
maybe because I wanted that for me.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
When you look back on that time, do you think
someone should have been looking out for me more? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (48:34):
In some ways, I mean my mom, God bless her, didn't.
She was not academic and did not she was almost
scared of authority, meaning just didn't understand it was sort
of had an aversion toward it, So I wish I'd
had more support with school. I felt very caught out there,
(48:55):
but she didn't know how, and it was a little
bit of a different time. The only kids who had
tutors were kids who were like what's the word abominable, bully,
bad or whatever, like really bad or really rich.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:10):
It sort of was like tutors were, you know, it.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Wasn't now everybody, you know, it seems I can have
someone come in and help.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
I guess not everybody, you know what I'm saying. So
I would have liked more support there, And I don't know, Yeah,
I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
She was pretty protective and talk to me about sex,
drugs and rock and roll. Like she was always very
kind of like talking to me about you know, being safe,
don't do anything. You know, if you need to smoke pot,
try to do it at home and don't leave the house.
So she was kind of protective. But anyway, I do. Yeah,
I guess I was a bit caught out there in
a certain ways.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Are you pleased that your girls me too? A girls too?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. They definitely have more boundaries even
with friends. Like if some of their friends are going
through something, both girls have told a teacher or a parent,
you know, that kind of thing, and they haven't like
hit it, like the kids whatever going you know, through
a hard time, and they're worried about them.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
So that's really great.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
And I think they're Yeah, they I mean, my fifteen
year old is just starting to date, but my older
one I think is really like different about whatever, all
that consent stuff.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
I hope, I think so. I hope.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Yeah, I think they are.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
They're much better at I feel like we maybe thought
we were powerful, but we actually weren't that powerful. They
probably have more power than us, which is a good thing,
really good. We talked a bit about the vulnerability of
being a teenager at that time, that it didn't feel
like there's as much surveillance as there is now. But
what about the beauty of that? Do you think in
a way we were lucky to have been doing all
(50:52):
out of our exploring at that time.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I do think that people are fascinated with the first
They were with the eighties, but the nineties too, because
even being in a celebrity group like that, I was
running around, we were still able. It made us feel
like we could still kind of be teens. And although
we were like wanting to be cool for one another,
(51:15):
it wasn't because you didn't have the cell phones and stuff.
You weren't like thinking about being that self conscious. If
it was in the public eye, it was like a
red carpet once in a while, which didn't happen all
the time, and then you would be photographed or if
you were photographed for a particular job, but it wasn't
this kind of you know, we were taking pictures for
(51:36):
each other with polaroid cameras, but it you know, it
wasn't this presentational thing which is relaxing and nice, and
you could kind of just be You could open a
door to party and see someone doing something like crazy,
you know, making out with you know, a famous presenter,
and no one's you know, taking pictures of that or
think whatever.
Speaker 4 (51:54):
It just was like freer in that way.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
And even just like going to a festival, you lose
your friends and then you find them again, and it's
just this like more random kind of thing. And I
think people even think they missed the randomness of having
the television tell you what they're going to watch. I mean,
I probably people would hate that now, but it's sort
of something about you're just like living your life in
(52:16):
a certain way that that feels kind of yeah, free
and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
I think we're now, we're more we're convinced we've got
more control because we can choose, But really, I don't
think we're doing.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
The choice side, that's true.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah, it was pretty fun and there wasn't as many
like stylists and you know, like actors looked like kind
of KOOKI there we go to like I don't know.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
If you go into the red carpet of River's.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Edge, you just yeah, some people were wearing you know,
like whatever, even like jeans. I mean, I always like
to dress up a little bit for better or worse,
you like sort of styling yourself and looking the way
you want to look.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Well freedom.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
The last thing I have to ask you for is
an Australian podcast. After all, you have been married to
an Australian for a long time. You live in la
you live in Sydney. What's the difference. What do you
love about Australia? Well, why have you enjoyed raising like
having the kids here?
Speaker 1 (53:12):
I mean, well, I probably live in the safest neighborhood
in the whole wide world, so that's kind of fun
to have that.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
I love.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
The public transportation is really great. They can walk around,
they can take the bus, they can I'm not really
worried about them in a certain way.
Speaker 4 (53:30):
I love, of course the birds.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
I'm like crazy about all the birds and the nature.
I mean, the lifestyle is incredible. I think digging into
Australia and not comparing it to like cities like whatever
city you like, London, New York, LA is the way
to go because it's like you can't hold it up again,
so you can kind of compare other cities to each other,
(53:53):
but you just I think you just have to dig
into what it is. And it's such a nice lifestyle.
I guess the complaint if you're like ambitious and artistic
is like.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
Where's the juice? Where's the juice?
Speaker 1 (54:04):
But we just went to Melbourne and totally had a
blast and felt really lit up about it. So it's
just a little harder to find that like electricity, but
I'll like definitely give that up to like enjoy the
I don't know, it's so nourishing and you know, but
but but getting friends like nurturing my girlfriends that I know.
(54:25):
That's a little trickier, I think, especially in Sydney, because
somewhere like Melbourne is there's these sort of artistic communities.
In certain ways, I think maybe more there's something. I
think Sydney people are just having their own they're having
such a good lifestyle that they don't need.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
Yeah, so I'm working on that.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Well, thank you very much. I've loved talking to you today.
I could talk to you for longer, but.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
I know you want to know. Was Iony Sky cool?
Was Iony Sky nice?
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Absolutely, she was warm and generous and lovely and in
my fa to see life. Obviously we're mates and Brent's
go and bush walking with Ben, but look, we all
need to still have troops now. Genuinely, I love Dione's
book and I loved that conversation. She's a beautiful writer
and a clear eyed storyteller, and I loved the non
judgmental way she unpacks what is truly shocking.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
Some of it in retrospect.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
If you want to hear more conversations with bold truth
telling women, I wouldn't be doing my job.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
If I didn't point you towards our episode with Gina Chick,
and if you.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Want to hear more about being an eighties nineties icon,
then there's my conversation with the impossibly lovely Ali Daddo
on being one of the original Australian supermodels and marrying
a very different kind of it boy.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
Thank you so much for listening to mid It means
the world.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
If you love the show, rate it, review it, share
it with a friend, and many thanks to our production
team Executive producer Namer Brown, our senior producer Grays Through Ray,
our producer Charlie Blackman.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
There's been audio production from Jacob Brown in next week
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