January 31, 2024 • 21 mins
We've all felt determined, but how do you sustain determination to achieve long-term goals? Helen McCabe and Jamila Rizvi discuss the ins and outs of determination and how revealing emotions can open new pathways.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Mindset, a guide to getting out of your
own way and a blueprint for professional success. In today's episode,
Helen McCabe and Jamila Risby are sharing how they cope
with Overwhelm and how they fuel their determination for long-term goals.
Helen is an expert on Overwhelm, how overwhelmed do you
(00:24):
feel
Speaker 2 (00:24):
right now? Well, right now my overwhelm is probably about
a 5. But if you could ask me, like, this
time last week when my flights were all being cancelled,
thank you, Virgin. I was running 6 hours late to
absolutely everything, including
Key meetings with key government figures all over Australia. So yeah, like,
everyone was, you know, and you, you know this because
(00:46):
everyone was getting regular updates through our Slack channel about
how bad it was, um, to the point where I thought,
you all had your own jobs to do. I don't know,
I need to share this with everyone.
But my partner said, on days like this, you go floppy.
What's that mean? Well, you know, like a small child,
when you pick them up and they just flop, and
it's just like, you just don't fight anything. Yeah, you
just go with it. You just go with it. So,
(01:08):
once he said that to me, I went floppy. I
did what I did whatever the
The staff at Virgin asked me to do, I did whatever.
I just stopped, yep, because I could not fight the
forces that were ranged against me.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Interesting. Go floppy. So here's something you're not supposed to
say about overwhelming stress. To a degree, there's, there's a,
there's a, there's a point where obviously this isn't true anymore,
but I quite like stress.
Like a bit of stress makes you a bit motivated.
Having a little bit too much to do and kind
of sitting there going.
(01:49):
I'm a bit overwhelmed cause there's a lot right now,
and I've got to get it all done, but this
is all stuff I chose. This is all stuff I
need to get through to get to a place where
I'm more effective, more accomplished, better at something, get something done,
help someone else, whatever it is. I feel like
There's a degree of good stress, right, that's not damaging
to you, that's low level, and I looked it up,
(02:12):
there's a, there's a word for it, I'm not just
a total maniac, everyone, it's called you stress, which is
the stress that is motivating, the stress that helps you.
The problem is when that stress starts to move from
being pressure that's exhilarating to stress that turns into overwhelm,
where you are manifesting a bad stress and everything becomes
(02:35):
too much to handle, and your emotions aren't coping, your
physicality's not coping.
You can't plan, you can't think clearly, you can't handle
the situation, and perhaps the only option is to go,
to go floppy, go floppy.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I, I've given this so much thought cause I'm completely
convinced that the stress is the thing that motivates me.
And I have really worried about not having stress, because
if I was stress free, stuff which wouldn't happen. It's
the stress that gets me to move in the mornings. So,
I do always get
(03:08):
Suspicious of well-meaning self-help books and podcasts and stuff that go,
you know, you're stressed and why you shouldn't feel stressed,
and the, all the, all the, all the anti-stress stuff.
Cause stress can be good.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah. But let's talk about when it can't be, because
that's what we're talking about today. Cause we're not suggesting
you all go out and get stressed. So recognising, putting
a bit of pressure on yourself can be useful if
it's done in a really sensible, um, containable way. Let's
talk about the impacts of overwhelm.
Because when stress turns into bad stress and it turns
into overwhelm, that's not something we want to be ignoring.
So the consequences of overwhelm are huge. They can impact
(03:44):
your health, your mood, your relationships, your mental health, and, uh,
absolutely reminding everyone that Helen and I aren't psychologists, and,
and if you're deep in this stuff, that's the time
to reach out to a professional. But even in occasional
smaller doses, overwhelm can be really confronting and it can
be really scary. And
I think there's a few different ways it can impact
your life without it sort of dancing around wearing a
(04:07):
funny hat that has overwhelm on the front of it.
So the first one is, and I'm laughing cause a
lot of these have to do with you being floppy. But, uh,
the first one is you start to have difficulty taking
care of yourself. So when you're so trapped in overwhelmed,
it's easy to forget to eat. It's easy to forget
that you need enough sleep. Um, I hate the word self-care,
(04:28):
but if we think about self-care as something that's not
having a bubble bath with some aromatherapy and more about
actually caring for yourself, um, that becomes harder. You might
skip a doctor's appointment, you might, um,
Uh, not be giving yourself that 5 minutes where you
sit down and have a cup of tea in the morning,
but instead you're doing everything on the run. So, overwhelmed
can get confronting Helen, I think when it
And, and you can know that it's happening in your
(04:49):
life when you start to go, I'm not really taking
care of myself in the way I'd like.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yes, and it's having a negative impact on your, on
your social life. You, you are either not wanting to
see anyone or you're feeling under extreme pressure to see everyone, and,
and that is
Speaker 1 (05:06):
just as definitely my sign of overwhelm. Yes, that's like,
that's how it shows up for me when I start going,
I'm a bad friend, I can't do it. I can't
go out. I can't go.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, and you just add up all the people that
have said we should catch up this week, and you
just paralyse because you know you can't fit them all in. Um,
that is for me, a pretty constant challenge. Um, fatigue,
of course, you know, feeling, feeling tired, sleeping, wanting to
sleep a lot more. I mean, that's a classic sign, um,
(05:37):
that someone's not coping. And
Speaker 1 (05:38):
then also, like, lower the ability to think really rat.
ally So, um, over when overstimulation is brought on by
fear or stress, it can really start to take over
your brain, and it that overstimulation can stop you from
processing things rationally and critically, because you're just buzzing with
too much information and you can't see the wood from
the trees, let's say. And that can lead to things
(06:01):
seeming even more complicated than they are. And I don't
know if you've had that experience, Helen. I've, I've definitely
had it in my working life where the problem feels
so unsolvable.
And then someone, a colleague, a boss comes in and says,
What if we did this? And you're like, What? What?
How was that there? How was that answer there? And
I didn't see it cause I've thought about this so much,
(06:23):
but my overwhelm has prevented me from being able to
navigate a path through.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, that.
And this just reminded me, you just reminded me of
that feeling of the sun coming up the next day thing. It,
it can feel at times like that's not gonna happen,
and yet it actually does. And it's worthwhile in the
middle of that feeling or sensation to remind yourself that
(06:48):
in a week or 2 weeks, or it may take
a year, whatever it is that you're struggling with will pass.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Do you cry when you're overwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yes, and when you least expect it. Like, it's not something,
it's not something you kind of plan or can see
because you are overwhelmed. I think the two things are
very connected.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And the crying's good for you, right? The crying is a,
is a catharsis that allows you to get rid of
some of that overwhelm that overwhelmed feeling. Um, but often
because of the fact that it takes you by surprise,
it can come at a time when you desperately would
rather be doing anything that is not crying.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well, that's often in the middle of, um, a meeting
with your boss or your superior, where you are trying
to solve a joint problem and you didn't realise you
were struggling with it as much as you are until
you're confronted with the scale of the
Speaker 1 (07:44):
problem. When I was a lot younger, I once cried
in a negotiation with a boss, and I
Speaker 2 (07:51):
That does not sound like you. It
Speaker 1 (07:53):
was the worst. I, I was about to say it's
the worst thing that's ever happened to me. There have
been other bad things, but at the time, it felt
like the end of the world. Like, I do remember
just going, I can never come back from this. Like,
it was one of those, I think I should pack
my bags and move to the other side of the world,
cause this is over. This is this
Speaker 2 (08:10):
can't happen. Um, all I wanna do now is ask
you who your boss was, but, um,
Um, anyone who's, uh, knows Jamilla CV will know she's
had some pretty, uh, pretty high profile bosses. Not
Speaker 1 (08:19):
for today. Not for today. Let's talk about overcoming, overwhelm,
and what you can do in the moment when you
are feeling overwhelmed. The first suggestion, Helen, is, is called
the physiological sigh.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's called going floppy.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I do. I do, like, honestly, this whole episode could
be replaced with Helen going
Speaker 2 (08:38):
floppy.
Um, that's right. It's, um, it's about just giving in
to it. And in this, in this context, we're talking
about your nervous system.
And if you, um, take a deep breath, it's a very,
very common piece of advice that we give in various
circumstances in
Speaker 1 (08:54):
FW. My son is always saying to me when I
say it to him, I'm breathing, mommy, I'm breathing. And
it's like, No, no, no, no, you're not. Not the
way I need you to breathe. Look,
Speaker 2 (09:03):
it, it just works. Um, taking an incredibly deep breath
where you can feel the air filling your stomach, um,
as low as you possibly can go.
Uh, and then exhaling will make an immediate difference more
than any drug or
Speaker 1 (09:21):
glass of wine. It's because when we're really, we're really
stressed or overwhelmed and, and, and uptight, and we start
getting that almost hyperventilating feeling, it feels like you don't
have enough air. And you're like, I like, I just
need to calm down and get some air. Actually, your
problem is you have too much air.
It feels like you don't have enough air, and so
if you're inhaling, for a shorter period than you are exhaling,
(09:43):
you are giving your brain what it thinks it needs,
which is air, but you're actually starting to expel,
That carbon dioxide that you're trying to get out of
your body because you've got too much. And amazingly, science, everyone,
that relaxes you quite, quite
Speaker 2 (09:57):
quickly. Tricks your entire nervous system, and you can calm down.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Self-care is the second tip, and we all know how
I feel about self-care. Hubble baths.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Nothing wrong with them. What's
Speaker 1 (10:06):
wrong? I, I, I'm actually an anti-bath person, but that's
for another day. You
Speaker 2 (10:10):
would be. I know you'd be anti-bath. That would just
take too much time. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
They're really inefficient.
Uh, there are other forms of self-care, everyone. If you're
a bath person, you do you. But, uh, sleep counts
as self-care, everyone, drinking enough water, uh, eating the right
kinds of food. We have a, um, uh, a tradition
at my place of, uh, a family who often ends
up overwhelmed, which is when someone is overwhelmed to say
(10:35):
to them, Have you eaten? Have you had a glass
of water? Have you had enough sleep?
And we ask these things in turn. And usually you
don't get to the end of the list before someone's like, Oh, no, I,
I'm a bit dehydrated.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Uh, I think the basics, that's right. The basics are, um,
really worth remembering. And, uh, for me, it's like, you know, I,
I think you spend most of your 20s and 30s
resisting sleep because there's so much of the world to
Explore and experience, um, but at some point you realise
(11:07):
as a fully grown adult, that that is the one
thing you can control and it makes a fundamental difference
to everyday. A huge
Speaker 1 (11:14):
one.
There's this thing I came across called the Pareto principle,
and it says that 20% of your efforts account for 80%
of the result. So, of whatever task you might, you
might be doing. So that the next time you feel
really overwhelmed, you can calm yourself down by reminding yourself
that 20% of your efforts account for 80% of the results. So,
(11:36):
write down all the things that are vying for attention
in your mind on separate pieces of paper. Maybe not
separate pieces of paper, bad for the environment.
One piece of paper and cut them up. Um, and
so write all of them down. So it might be, I, um,
I'm going away and I haven't done the dry cleaning,
and I'm gonna need a suit for it. And I
haven't written, um, this document that my boss, boss needs
(11:56):
for before I go away. And I haven't booked extra
pickups for the kids at after school care because I'm,
I've got to do that because my partner's gonna be
not gonna be able to pick them up. Oh, no,
I haven't done the grocery shopping, and I'm worried about this,
and my mum's unwell at the moment, and you just
make your big list of all the things that are
stressing you out.
And then, let's say you've written down 20 things. Choose 4.
(12:17):
And that is gonna be really hard, especially when there's
mothers and children on the list, but you're going to
say 4 of these.
I am going to fix because they are the ones
I cannot not fix. And you start with them, plan
to solve just 20% of the main sources of overwhelm,
and you will start to experience enormous relief. It's not
to say that the 80% are not going to be tackled.
(12:38):
You're not, you are going to get to the 80%,
but if you focus on just the 20%, you're gonna
get the relief and the boost of confidence that means
you're able to tackle the 80% later. I love
Speaker 2 (12:47):
that. That absolutely works. Uh, implementing boundaries. If you, if
you have poor boundaries, I have none.
You have none. You may find yourself overwhelmed trying to
please everyone at the expense of your own health and wellbeing,
and this is pretty much every woman who is listening
to this podcast.
(13:07):
So what do you do?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Well, I, I, I have done nothing, but others theoretically
could learn how to set some boundaries. Um, and it is, look, honestly, it,
you know, it is really, it's a really difficult thing
to do. But overwhelmed comes with not having clear boundaries
about what you can and cannot do, what you are
capable of within the 24 hours of this day, especially
if you're taking 12 hours of sleep, like Helen said.
(13:31):
Um, you need to have boundaries that align with your
values and your most important goals. And being able to
set those boundaries and be firm about them, not mean
about them, just firm about them, is going to mean
that you are more capable of achieving what you want to.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But I really struggle with this one. I really
Speaker 1 (13:48):
gonna say don't set any bounds. Well, this is why
we get along. Well,
Speaker 2 (13:53):
boundaries.
I mean, how do you do that and still be
a good friend, colleague, boss, daughter, neighbour? Like, how do
you kind of go, oh, no, no, uh, these are
my boundaries. I don't take docks on the door after
9 o'clock at night because that's just that's that's my boundary.
(14:15):
And yet you've got a neighbour on the, on your
doorstep who's locked themselves out of the house. You know, like,
I don't.
Oh, I struggle with
Speaker 1 (14:24):
this one. Yeah, no, it's, look, I'm, I'm, I'm clearly
not good at it, um, but, but I observe, I
observe like David Attenborough from afar, other people who appear
to have better boundaries. And
Speaker 2 (14:36):
how do they, but here's the thing, how do they
do it well without being one of those annoying boundary people.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Or maybe they are annoying. But I think, I think, firstly,
I think you've gotta be, you've gotta have a degree
of flexibility, right? A boundary can't be so rigid that
the neighbour knocks on your door at 9 p.m. and
needs help, and you say, I am not available, that
you can't be that rigid, right? But a general principle
of I, I avoid doing things that keep me out
later than 9 p.m. on a weekday, for example, and
(15:04):
trying to implement that most of the time.
It is probably quite a sensible boundary, which I do
not have in place. Uh, I think the, the, there
has to be flexibility within the boundaries, right? Like, I,
one of the things I struggle with is saying no
to people who are asking me to do something that
is a legitimately good thing, and I would like to help,
(15:25):
but I only have so much capacity for help. And
What happens is I end up saying yes to everyone,
and then I end up pulling out of things or
I get sick, and I end up disappointing a whole
lot of people. And it would have been better for
me to say yes to some of those things and
implement some boundaries around the others to ensure that I
could deliver for the some rather than the none, because
(15:46):
I've fallen in the heat. I think that's a very
good answer. Today, Helen, we are going to try and
move everyone from overwhelmed to a place of feeling more determined.
And we've chosen the word determination for this episode for
a really specific reason.
And that is that I think a lot of women
are socialised to feel kind of uncomfortable about describing themselves
as ambitious. So we're trying to talk about determination rather
(16:07):
than ambition.
Is that
Is that a word that sits comfortably with you, determination,
and would ambition have sat less comfortably?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, I think, yes, I think that's a really, um,
good observation. Um, I'm pretty comfortable with determination. I'm also
pretty comfortable with ambition now, um, but fought it as
a concept, um, for a lot of my professional life, um,
because of the negativity that
Uh, came with it. Ambitious women were just not gonna
(16:38):
get promoted. You were literally asking to be passed over
if you accepted, um, the concept of being ambitious. Do
you think that's changed? I do, yeah, I think it
has changed. I don't, I don't think it's as much
of a, um, a hindrance professionally, but I, but equally,
(16:59):
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people that are
Still labelled as ambitious, um, in the most negative possible way.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah. And it definitely is, there is definitely a gendered
impact there. I think ambitious men are people we admire
and ambitious women are people to be wary of. That's
the stereotype. So let's focus on determination, because that's what
we're gonna, we're gonna do. And we're gonna give you, everyone,
4 ways to try and boost your determination.
The first one is, you are going to clearly define
your goals, because it's really hard to be determined when
(17:27):
you don't know what you're trying to be determined for.
So getting clear about your goals for the future, making
sure those goals are specific, that they're measurable, achievable, relevant,
and that there's a time boundary around those goals, not
like a goal in the ether of one day I will,
but by this time I will.
And have a clear picture of what you want to achieve.
And that's gonna give you a much better understanding of
(17:49):
what actions you need to take to make them happen.
And without those clear actions, you can't get determined. Now,
for
Speaker 2 (17:55):
some of you, breaking it down into smaller steps might
be a much easier way of doing this, because having
a big goal might be just way too overwhelming.
Uh, for anyone who's got a big goal, go for it,
because I think big goals are also, um, a great
thing to strive for. And, you know, tell everyone about
your big goal, cause that makes you accountable for it
as well. But if you are someone who, uh, isn't
there yet, break it down into small steps. Um, that
(18:19):
makes it far more manageable. And by doing this, you'll
have a clear roadmap of what you need to do
to reach your ultimate goal. So that might be, uh,
signing up for a free, uh, TAFE course spot.
Um, it might be, um, one of our Google certificates, uh,
short courses just set, set you on the pathway to
(18:39):
the bigger goal, um, and fuel your determination.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Uh, focus on your why. When things are getting tough,
it's easy to lose sight of why you just started
doing something in the first place. Your why is the
reason behind your goals. It's not the goal itself. It's
the reason you're pursuing the goal. So your why is
what's gonna keep you going when things get hard, when
they get challenging, and it's what's gonna give you some
real determination to keep pushing things forward. So remember why
(19:06):
you're doing it. And it might be for a whole
bunch of reasons. Maybe you're getting back to work because
you know that your superannuation balance.
It is just not where it needs to be, and
you want to make sure that you're building a retirement
where you can feel safe and secure. That's a pretty
good why. Or you might be trying to get that
promotion because you know that in that particular role, you'll
have greater flexibility and you'll have greater, um, uh, control
(19:31):
over your working hours and your working day, which means
you can spend more time with your kids and more
time getting home to who you love. It doesn't even
have to be a why that's about the work itself.
Although if it is, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Enlist and accountable.
Ability partner. Now, this sounds pretty tough to me, but, um,
this is what, uh, people recommend in, in, um, working towards.
And you
Speaker 1 (19:51):
just said be accountable. You said, tell people about your goals. I,
Speaker 2 (19:55):
well, yes, but I don't want a partner. I don't want,
I don't want them. I don't want someone telling me off.
I just, I just want it to be out there
and verbalise, but a partner sounds like it's really gonna
get tough. Um, being determined doesn't mean you have to
do everything alone. Surround yourself with people who support and
encourage you.
So choose a partner that you want to make you
Speaker 1 (20:16):
accountable. You clearly are not into this thing. I think
it's quite cool, right? There are a lot of people, like,
so for example, I have, um, a mate who quit
smoking a few years ago, and she had probably tried
to quit smoking for 1617 years, I reckon.
And it was only when she partnered up with a mate,
and they were keeping themselves accountable, and they were calling
one another and like, not to tick each other off,
(20:38):
but to spur each other on and go, we're not
doing this anymore, reminding each other why they were doing it.
It was really cool.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I thought you were gonna be the partner. Have you
had a cigarette today? Put that cigarette down. I
Speaker 1 (20:49):
would have been too judgmental and school mommy. I would
not be a good
Speaker 2 (20:53):
partner. Yeah, OK, so, and list and accountability partner.
If you want to.
And don't if you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Mindset is created by FW Jobs Academy with support from
the Australian government's Office for Women.
Welcome to Mindset, a guide to getting out of your
own way and a blueprint for professional success. In today's episode,
Helen McCabe and Jamila Risby are sharing how they cope
with Overwhelm and how they fuel their determination for long-term goals.
Helen is an expert on Overwhelm, how overwhelmed do you
(00:24):
feel
Speaker 2 (00:24):
right now? Well, right now my overwhelm is probably about
a 5. But if you could ask me, like, this
time last week when my flights were all being cancelled,
thank you, Virgin. I was running 6 hours late to
absolutely everything, including
Key meetings with key government figures all over Australia. So yeah, like,
everyone was, you know, and you, you know this because
(00:46):
everyone was getting regular updates through our Slack channel about
how bad it was, um, to the point where I thought,
you all had your own jobs to do. I don't know,
I need to share this with everyone.
But my partner said, on days like this, you go floppy.
What's that mean? Well, you know, like a small child,
when you pick them up and they just flop, and
it's just like, you just don't fight anything. Yeah, you
just go with it. You just go with it. So,
(01:08):
once he said that to me, I went floppy. I
did what I did whatever the
The staff at Virgin asked me to do, I did whatever.
I just stopped, yep, because I could not fight the
forces that were ranged against me.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Interesting. Go floppy. So here's something you're not supposed to
say about overwhelming stress. To a degree, there's, there's a,
there's a, there's a point where obviously this isn't true anymore,
but I quite like stress.
Like a bit of stress makes you a bit motivated.
Having a little bit too much to do and kind
of sitting there going.
(01:49):
I'm a bit overwhelmed cause there's a lot right now,
and I've got to get it all done, but this
is all stuff I chose. This is all stuff I
need to get through to get to a place where
I'm more effective, more accomplished, better at something, get something done,
help someone else, whatever it is. I feel like
There's a degree of good stress, right, that's not damaging
to you, that's low level, and I looked it up,
(02:12):
there's a, there's a word for it, I'm not just
a total maniac, everyone, it's called you stress, which is
the stress that is motivating, the stress that helps you.
The problem is when that stress starts to move from
being pressure that's exhilarating to stress that turns into overwhelm,
where you are manifesting a bad stress and everything becomes
(02:35):
too much to handle, and your emotions aren't coping, your
physicality's not coping.
You can't plan, you can't think clearly, you can't handle
the situation, and perhaps the only option is to go,
to go floppy, go floppy.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I, I've given this so much thought cause I'm completely
convinced that the stress is the thing that motivates me.
And I have really worried about not having stress, because
if I was stress free, stuff which wouldn't happen. It's
the stress that gets me to move in the mornings. So,
I do always get
(03:08):
Suspicious of well-meaning self-help books and podcasts and stuff that go,
you know, you're stressed and why you shouldn't feel stressed,
and the, all the, all the, all the anti-stress stuff.
Cause stress can be good.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah. But let's talk about when it can't be, because
that's what we're talking about today. Cause we're not suggesting
you all go out and get stressed. So recognising, putting
a bit of pressure on yourself can be useful if
it's done in a really sensible, um, containable way. Let's
talk about the impacts of overwhelm.
Because when stress turns into bad stress and it turns
into overwhelm, that's not something we want to be ignoring.
So the consequences of overwhelm are huge. They can impact
(03:44):
your health, your mood, your relationships, your mental health, and, uh,
absolutely reminding everyone that Helen and I aren't psychologists, and,
and if you're deep in this stuff, that's the time
to reach out to a professional. But even in occasional
smaller doses, overwhelm can be really confronting and it can
be really scary. And
I think there's a few different ways it can impact
your life without it sort of dancing around wearing a
(04:07):
funny hat that has overwhelm on the front of it.
So the first one is, and I'm laughing cause a
lot of these have to do with you being floppy. But, uh,
the first one is you start to have difficulty taking
care of yourself. So when you're so trapped in overwhelmed,
it's easy to forget to eat. It's easy to forget
that you need enough sleep. Um, I hate the word self-care,
(04:28):
but if we think about self-care as something that's not
having a bubble bath with some aromatherapy and more about
actually caring for yourself, um, that becomes harder. You might
skip a doctor's appointment, you might, um,
Uh, not be giving yourself that 5 minutes where you
sit down and have a cup of tea in the morning,
but instead you're doing everything on the run. So, overwhelmed
can get confronting Helen, I think when it
And, and you can know that it's happening in your
(04:49):
life when you start to go, I'm not really taking
care of myself in the way I'd like.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yes, and it's having a negative impact on your, on
your social life. You, you are either not wanting to
see anyone or you're feeling under extreme pressure to see everyone, and,
and that is
Speaker 1 (05:06):
just as definitely my sign of overwhelm. Yes, that's like,
that's how it shows up for me when I start going,
I'm a bad friend, I can't do it. I can't
go out. I can't go.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, and you just add up all the people that
have said we should catch up this week, and you
just paralyse because you know you can't fit them all in. Um,
that is for me, a pretty constant challenge. Um, fatigue,
of course, you know, feeling, feeling tired, sleeping, wanting to
sleep a lot more. I mean, that's a classic sign, um,
(05:37):
that someone's not coping. And
Speaker 1 (05:38):
then also, like, lower the ability to think really rat.
ally So, um, over when overstimulation is brought on by
fear or stress, it can really start to take over
your brain, and it that overstimulation can stop you from
processing things rationally and critically, because you're just buzzing with
too much information and you can't see the wood from
the trees, let's say. And that can lead to things
(06:01):
seeming even more complicated than they are. And I don't
know if you've had that experience, Helen. I've, I've definitely
had it in my working life where the problem feels
so unsolvable.
And then someone, a colleague, a boss comes in and says,
What if we did this? And you're like, What? What?
How was that there? How was that answer there? And
I didn't see it cause I've thought about this so much,
(06:23):
but my overwhelm has prevented me from being able to
navigate a path through.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, that.
And this just reminded me, you just reminded me of
that feeling of the sun coming up the next day thing. It,
it can feel at times like that's not gonna happen,
and yet it actually does. And it's worthwhile in the
middle of that feeling or sensation to remind yourself that
(06:48):
in a week or 2 weeks, or it may take
a year, whatever it is that you're struggling with will pass.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Do you cry when you're overwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yes, and when you least expect it. Like, it's not something,
it's not something you kind of plan or can see
because you are overwhelmed. I think the two things are
very connected.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And the crying's good for you, right? The crying is a,
is a catharsis that allows you to get rid of
some of that overwhelm that overwhelmed feeling. Um, but often
because of the fact that it takes you by surprise,
it can come at a time when you desperately would
rather be doing anything that is not crying.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well, that's often in the middle of, um, a meeting
with your boss or your superior, where you are trying
to solve a joint problem and you didn't realise you
were struggling with it as much as you are until
you're confronted with the scale of the
Speaker 1 (07:44):
problem. When I was a lot younger, I once cried
in a negotiation with a boss, and I
Speaker 2 (07:51):
That does not sound like you. It
Speaker 1 (07:53):
was the worst. I, I was about to say it's
the worst thing that's ever happened to me. There have
been other bad things, but at the time, it felt
like the end of the world. Like, I do remember
just going, I can never come back from this. Like,
it was one of those, I think I should pack
my bags and move to the other side of the world,
cause this is over. This is this
Speaker 2 (08:10):
can't happen. Um, all I wanna do now is ask
you who your boss was, but, um,
Um, anyone who's, uh, knows Jamilla CV will know she's
had some pretty, uh, pretty high profile bosses. Not
Speaker 1 (08:19):
for today. Not for today. Let's talk about overcoming, overwhelm,
and what you can do in the moment when you
are feeling overwhelmed. The first suggestion, Helen, is, is called
the physiological sigh.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's called going floppy.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I do. I do, like, honestly, this whole episode could
be replaced with Helen going
Speaker 2 (08:38):
floppy.
Um, that's right. It's, um, it's about just giving in
to it. And in this, in this context, we're talking
about your nervous system.
And if you, um, take a deep breath, it's a very,
very common piece of advice that we give in various
circumstances in
Speaker 1 (08:54):
FW. My son is always saying to me when I
say it to him, I'm breathing, mommy, I'm breathing. And
it's like, No, no, no, no, you're not. Not the
way I need you to breathe. Look,
Speaker 2 (09:03):
it, it just works. Um, taking an incredibly deep breath
where you can feel the air filling your stomach, um,
as low as you possibly can go.
Uh, and then exhaling will make an immediate difference more
than any drug or
Speaker 1 (09:21):
glass of wine. It's because when we're really, we're really
stressed or overwhelmed and, and, and uptight, and we start
getting that almost hyperventilating feeling, it feels like you don't
have enough air. And you're like, I like, I just
need to calm down and get some air. Actually, your
problem is you have too much air.
It feels like you don't have enough air, and so
if you're inhaling, for a shorter period than you are exhaling,
(09:43):
you are giving your brain what it thinks it needs,
which is air, but you're actually starting to expel,
That carbon dioxide that you're trying to get out of
your body because you've got too much. And amazingly, science, everyone,
that relaxes you quite, quite
Speaker 2 (09:57):
quickly. Tricks your entire nervous system, and you can calm down.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Self-care is the second tip, and we all know how
I feel about self-care. Hubble baths.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Nothing wrong with them. What's
Speaker 1 (10:06):
wrong? I, I, I'm actually an anti-bath person, but that's
for another day. You
Speaker 2 (10:10):
would be. I know you'd be anti-bath. That would just
take too much time. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
They're really inefficient.
Uh, there are other forms of self-care, everyone. If you're
a bath person, you do you. But, uh, sleep counts
as self-care, everyone, drinking enough water, uh, eating the right
kinds of food. We have a, um, uh, a tradition
at my place of, uh, a family who often ends
up overwhelmed, which is when someone is overwhelmed to say
(10:35):
to them, Have you eaten? Have you had a glass
of water? Have you had enough sleep?
And we ask these things in turn. And usually you
don't get to the end of the list before someone's like, Oh, no, I,
I'm a bit dehydrated.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Uh, I think the basics, that's right. The basics are, um,
really worth remembering. And, uh, for me, it's like, you know, I,
I think you spend most of your 20s and 30s
resisting sleep because there's so much of the world to
Explore and experience, um, but at some point you realise
(11:07):
as a fully grown adult, that that is the one
thing you can control and it makes a fundamental difference
to everyday. A huge
Speaker 1 (11:14):
one.
There's this thing I came across called the Pareto principle,
and it says that 20% of your efforts account for 80%
of the result. So, of whatever task you might, you
might be doing. So that the next time you feel
really overwhelmed, you can calm yourself down by reminding yourself
that 20% of your efforts account for 80% of the results. So,
(11:36):
write down all the things that are vying for attention
in your mind on separate pieces of paper. Maybe not
separate pieces of paper, bad for the environment.
One piece of paper and cut them up. Um, and
so write all of them down. So it might be, I, um,
I'm going away and I haven't done the dry cleaning,
and I'm gonna need a suit for it. And I
haven't written, um, this document that my boss, boss needs
(11:56):
for before I go away. And I haven't booked extra
pickups for the kids at after school care because I'm,
I've got to do that because my partner's gonna be
not gonna be able to pick them up. Oh, no,
I haven't done the grocery shopping, and I'm worried about this,
and my mum's unwell at the moment, and you just
make your big list of all the things that are
stressing you out.
And then, let's say you've written down 20 things. Choose 4.
(12:17):
And that is gonna be really hard, especially when there's
mothers and children on the list, but you're going to
say 4 of these.
I am going to fix because they are the ones
I cannot not fix. And you start with them, plan
to solve just 20% of the main sources of overwhelm,
and you will start to experience enormous relief. It's not
to say that the 80% are not going to be tackled.
(12:38):
You're not, you are going to get to the 80%,
but if you focus on just the 20%, you're gonna
get the relief and the boost of confidence that means
you're able to tackle the 80% later. I love
Speaker 2 (12:47):
that. That absolutely works. Uh, implementing boundaries. If you, if
you have poor boundaries, I have none.
You have none. You may find yourself overwhelmed trying to
please everyone at the expense of your own health and wellbeing,
and this is pretty much every woman who is listening
to this podcast.
(13:07):
So what do you do?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Well, I, I, I have done nothing, but others theoretically
could learn how to set some boundaries. Um, and it is, look, honestly, it,
you know, it is really, it's a really difficult thing
to do. But overwhelmed comes with not having clear boundaries
about what you can and cannot do, what you are
capable of within the 24 hours of this day, especially
if you're taking 12 hours of sleep, like Helen said.
(13:31):
Um, you need to have boundaries that align with your
values and your most important goals. And being able to
set those boundaries and be firm about them, not mean
about them, just firm about them, is going to mean
that you are more capable of achieving what you want to.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But I really struggle with this one. I really
Speaker 1 (13:48):
gonna say don't set any bounds. Well, this is why
we get along. Well,
Speaker 2 (13:53):
boundaries.
I mean, how do you do that and still be
a good friend, colleague, boss, daughter, neighbour? Like, how do
you kind of go, oh, no, no, uh, these are
my boundaries. I don't take docks on the door after
9 o'clock at night because that's just that's that's my boundary.
(14:15):
And yet you've got a neighbour on the, on your
doorstep who's locked themselves out of the house. You know, like,
I don't.
Oh, I struggle with
Speaker 1 (14:24):
this one. Yeah, no, it's, look, I'm, I'm, I'm clearly
not good at it, um, but, but I observe, I
observe like David Attenborough from afar, other people who appear
to have better boundaries. And
Speaker 2 (14:36):
how do they, but here's the thing, how do they
do it well without being one of those annoying boundary people.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Or maybe they are annoying. But I think, I think, firstly,
I think you've gotta be, you've gotta have a degree
of flexibility, right? A boundary can't be so rigid that
the neighbour knocks on your door at 9 p.m. and
needs help, and you say, I am not available, that
you can't be that rigid, right? But a general principle
of I, I avoid doing things that keep me out
later than 9 p.m. on a weekday, for example, and
(15:04):
trying to implement that most of the time.
It is probably quite a sensible boundary, which I do
not have in place. Uh, I think the, the, there
has to be flexibility within the boundaries, right? Like, I,
one of the things I struggle with is saying no
to people who are asking me to do something that
is a legitimately good thing, and I would like to help,
(15:25):
but I only have so much capacity for help. And
What happens is I end up saying yes to everyone,
and then I end up pulling out of things or
I get sick, and I end up disappointing a whole
lot of people. And it would have been better for
me to say yes to some of those things and
implement some boundaries around the others to ensure that I
could deliver for the some rather than the none, because
(15:46):
I've fallen in the heat. I think that's a very
good answer. Today, Helen, we are going to try and
move everyone from overwhelmed to a place of feeling more determined.
And we've chosen the word determination for this episode for
a really specific reason.
And that is that I think a lot of women
are socialised to feel kind of uncomfortable about describing themselves
as ambitious. So we're trying to talk about determination rather
(16:07):
than ambition.
Is that
Is that a word that sits comfortably with you, determination,
and would ambition have sat less comfortably?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, I think, yes, I think that's a really, um,
good observation. Um, I'm pretty comfortable with determination. I'm also
pretty comfortable with ambition now, um, but fought it as
a concept, um, for a lot of my professional life, um,
because of the negativity that
Uh, came with it. Ambitious women were just not gonna
(16:38):
get promoted. You were literally asking to be passed over
if you accepted, um, the concept of being ambitious. Do
you think that's changed? I do, yeah, I think it
has changed. I don't, I don't think it's as much
of a, um, a hindrance professionally, but I, but equally,
(16:59):
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people that are
Still labelled as ambitious, um, in the most negative possible way.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah. And it definitely is, there is definitely a gendered
impact there. I think ambitious men are people we admire
and ambitious women are people to be wary of. That's
the stereotype. So let's focus on determination, because that's what
we're gonna, we're gonna do. And we're gonna give you, everyone,
4 ways to try and boost your determination.
The first one is, you are going to clearly define
your goals, because it's really hard to be determined when
(17:27):
you don't know what you're trying to be determined for.
So getting clear about your goals for the future, making
sure those goals are specific, that they're measurable, achievable, relevant,
and that there's a time boundary around those goals, not
like a goal in the ether of one day I will,
but by this time I will.
And have a clear picture of what you want to achieve.
And that's gonna give you a much better understanding of
(17:49):
what actions you need to take to make them happen.
And without those clear actions, you can't get determined. Now,
for
Speaker 2 (17:55):
some of you, breaking it down into smaller steps might
be a much easier way of doing this, because having
a big goal might be just way too overwhelming.
Uh, for anyone who's got a big goal, go for it,
because I think big goals are also, um, a great
thing to strive for. And, you know, tell everyone about
your big goal, cause that makes you accountable for it
as well. But if you are someone who, uh, isn't
there yet, break it down into small steps. Um, that
(18:19):
makes it far more manageable. And by doing this, you'll
have a clear roadmap of what you need to do
to reach your ultimate goal. So that might be, uh,
signing up for a free, uh, TAFE course spot.
Um, it might be, um, one of our Google certificates, uh,
short courses just set, set you on the pathway to
(18:39):
the bigger goal, um, and fuel your determination.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Uh, focus on your why. When things are getting tough,
it's easy to lose sight of why you just started
doing something in the first place. Your why is the
reason behind your goals. It's not the goal itself. It's
the reason you're pursuing the goal. So your why is
what's gonna keep you going when things get hard, when
they get challenging, and it's what's gonna give you some
real determination to keep pushing things forward. So remember why
(19:06):
you're doing it. And it might be for a whole
bunch of reasons. Maybe you're getting back to work because
you know that your superannuation balance.
It is just not where it needs to be, and
you want to make sure that you're building a retirement
where you can feel safe and secure. That's a pretty
good why. Or you might be trying to get that
promotion because you know that in that particular role, you'll
have greater flexibility and you'll have greater, um, uh, control
(19:31):
over your working hours and your working day, which means
you can spend more time with your kids and more
time getting home to who you love. It doesn't even
have to be a why that's about the work itself.
Although if it is, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Enlist and accountable.
Ability partner. Now, this sounds pretty tough to me, but, um,
this is what, uh, people recommend in, in, um, working towards.
And you
Speaker 1 (19:51):
just said be accountable. You said, tell people about your goals. I,
Speaker 2 (19:55):
well, yes, but I don't want a partner. I don't want,
I don't want them. I don't want someone telling me off.
I just, I just want it to be out there
and verbalise, but a partner sounds like it's really gonna
get tough. Um, being determined doesn't mean you have to
do everything alone. Surround yourself with people who support and
encourage you.
So choose a partner that you want to make you
Speaker 1 (20:16):
accountable. You clearly are not into this thing. I think
it's quite cool, right? There are a lot of people, like,
so for example, I have, um, a mate who quit
smoking a few years ago, and she had probably tried
to quit smoking for 1617 years, I reckon.
And it was only when she partnered up with a mate,
and they were keeping themselves accountable, and they were calling
one another and like, not to tick each other off,
(20:38):
but to spur each other on and go, we're not
doing this anymore, reminding each other why they were doing it.
It was really cool.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I thought you were gonna be the partner. Have you
had a cigarette today? Put that cigarette down. I
Speaker 1 (20:49):
would have been too judgmental and school mommy. I would
not be a good
Speaker 2 (20:53):
partner. Yeah, OK, so, and list and accountability partner.
If you want to.
And don't if you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Mindset is created by FW Jobs Academy with support from
the Australian government's Office for Women.
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