Podcasting 2.0, from PodEngine and Google NotebookLM

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PodEngine pulled in a bunch of podcasts talking about Podcasting 2.0, and wrote a report on it all.

Kevin Bae put that report into Google's NotebookLM to make a podcast to summarise it.

This is that podcast.

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Episode Transcript

Google voice 1 (00:12):
Hey, everyone.
Welcome back. Today, we're goingto do a deep dive into something
that's a well, it's prettyrevolutionary for the world of
podcasts. We're talkingpodcasting 2.0.

Google voice 2 (00:23):
My casting 2.0.

Google voice 1 (00:24):
We've got a ton of sources, articles, interviews,
you name it. Oh, cool. And yeah,we're going to break down what
this whole movement means forcreators, listeners, everyone.

Google voice 2 (00:35):
You know, when I first heard the term podcasting
2.0, I have to admit I was alittle skeptical.

Google voice 1 (00:40):
Really? Yeah.

Google voice 2 (00:41):
It sounded kind of. Well, I don't know, like
just a bunch of tech jargon, youknow?

Google voice 1 (00:46):
Right, Right.

Google voice 2 (00:46):
But the more I dug into it, the more I realized
that it's actually a really bigdeal. It's not just about fancy
new features.

Google voice 1 (00:52):
Okay, So if it's not about the tech, what is it
about?

Google voice 2 (00:55):
It's about well, it's about power shifting the
power dynamics in the podcastingworld.

Google voice (01:01):
Hmm. Interesting.
In what way?

Google voice 2 (01:03):
Well, it's about giving creators more control
over their work, more ways tomonetize, more ways to connect
with their audience.

Google voice 1 (01:09):
And I imagine it's got to have some perks for
listeners, too, right?

Google voice 2 (01:12):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, think of it like this.
Remember back in the day when weall had those clunky flip phones?

Google voice 1 (01:18):
Oh, yeah. I had that indestructible Nokia.

Google voice 2 (01:20):
Right. And then, bam, smartphones hit the scene,
changed everything. Exactly.
Podcasting 2.0 is kind of likethat. It's like taking
podcasting from those old flipphones to the smartphone era.

Google voice 1 (01:32):
So we're talking like, way more possible.

Google voice 2 (01:34):
A whole universe of them. Mm hmm. And just like
smartphones gave us tons of coolnew features. Podcasting 2.0 has
a bunch of its own.

Google voice (01:42):
Okay, I'm hooked.
Give me some examples. What kindof features are we talking?

Google voice 2 (01:45):
All right, well, let's say you're listening to a
podcast, and there's this onespecific part you absolutely
love. You know that one goldennugget of wisdom that you want
to go back to later?

Google voice 1 (01:54):
Oh, yeah, I know that feeling. And then you spend
like 10 minutes trying to scrubthrough the episode to find it
again.

Google voice 2 (01:59):
Oh, it's the worst. Well, with podcasting 2.0,
we have chapters now.

Google voice 1 (02:04):
Chapters like in a book.

Google voice 2 (02:05):
Exactly. You can jump straight to different
sections of an episode. No moreendless scrubbing.

Google voice 1 (02:09):
Okay. That alone is worth the price of admission.
What else?

Google voice 2 (02:13):
All right. How about this? Have you ever wished
you could find podcasts on, like,super specific topics, like, so
niche that you thought, No way.
There's a podcast about this.

Google voice (02:23):
Oh, all the time.
I'm always on the hunt for thosehidden gems.

Google voice 2 (02:26):
Well, with podcasting 2.0, we have
something called tags. These arelike super detailed keywords
that help listeners find theexact content they're looking
for.

Google voice 1 (02:34):
Wow. So it's like a search engine, but just
for podcasts?

Google voice 2 (02:37):
Pretty much.
Yeah.

Google voice 1 (02:38):
This is amazing.
But let's talk about theelephant in the room. Money
creators deserve to get paid fortheir hard work. How does
podcasting 2.0 handle that?

Google voice 2 (02:48):
That is a fantastic question, and it leads
us to one of the coolest thingsabout this whole movement. Value
for value.

Google voice 1 (02:54):
Value for value.
That sounds intriguing.

Google voice 2 (02:56):
It's basically a way for listeners to directly
support the creators they love.
Like, imagine being able to senda small tip to a podcaster whose
work really resonates with you.

Google voice 1 (03:06):
Wait, so you can actually pay podcasters directly,
like right from your podcast?

Google voice 2 (03:11):
You got it. It's called micropayments. Mm hmm.
Usually using bitcoin, but itcould be any crypto.

Google voice 1 (03:15):
No way. So it's not just about relying on ads or
sponsors anymore?

Google voice 2 (03:19):
Not necessarily with value for value. Creators
have a whole new revenue streamand it can really make a
difference, especially forindependent creators who are
just starting out.

Google voice 1 (03:29):
Wow. That could be game changing. But what's in
it for the listeners? Besidesthe warm, fuzzy feeling of
supporting their faves?

Google voice 2 (03:36):
Well, think about it. If creators aren't
relying solely on ad revenue,they have more freedom to create
the content they're trulypassionate about, even if it's
niche or experimental, whichmeans more diverse and
interesting podcasts foreveryone.

Google voice 1 (03:51):
Okay, so we're talking more variety, more
creativity.

Google voice 2 (03:54):
Exactly. It's a win win for both creators and
listeners. We even found asource who said they were able
to pay for a coffee withearnings from their podcast app.

Google voice 1 (04:02):
Whoa. That's a powerful image. Now, we've been
talking a lot about this openecosystem and empowering
creators. But what about the bigplayers? You know, the Spotify
of the world? Where do they fitinto all of this?

Google voice 2 (04:14):
That's where things get, well, a little
complicated. So the podcasting2.0 is all about open standards.
It's about creating a levelplaying field where anyone can
participate.

Google voice 1 (04:25):
Right. A bit like the early days of the
Internet, right before the bigcorporations took over.

Google voice 2 (04:29):
You got it. But these big platforms, they have
their own way of doing things,their own interest, their own
business models.

Google voice 1 (04:36):
So it's kind of like podcasting. 2.0 is pushing
for this open and decentralizedworld, and the big guys are
maybe a little more hesitant toembrace that fully.

Google voice 2 (04:45):
Right. And this tension, this clash of
philosophies, it's going to havea huge impact on the future of
podcasting.

Google voice (04:52):
That makes sense.
So what are we looking at here?
Is it going to be like Davidversus Goliath situation?

Google voice 2 (04:57):
It very well could be. One of our sources
said, look, I'm all for the openadvocacy of podcasting 2.0. But
I also understand that from acorporate point of view, a
company like Spotify couldn'tjust jump ahead of the curve
while waiting for the communityto come up with the tags and
standards.

Google voice 1 (05:13):
So it sounds like there's this kind of push
and pull happening like everyonesees the potential of podcasting
2.0, but figuring out how toactually make it work,
especially with the big playersinvolved. That's the tricky.

Google voice (05:24):
Part. Absolutely.
And as listeners, it's importantfor us to understand these
dynamics because ultimatelythey're going to shape what kind
of podcasts we get to listen toin the future.

Google voice 1 (05:33):
Totally. So the stakes are pretty high here. But
even with all this talk aboutthe open versus closed debate
and the big companies, I'm stillfeeling really optimistic about
the potential of podcasting topoint out.

Google voice 2 (05:45):
Me too. Me too.
There's a real sense ofexcitement and possibility in
the air. And the more weunderstand about it, the more we
can all contribute to shapingits future.

Google voice 1 (05:54):
Absolutely. And that's what we're all about here,
right? Exploring new ideas.
Diving deep into the stuff thatmatters and hopefully helping to
create a better future forpodcasting.

Google voice 2 (06:03):
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Google voice 1 (06:05):
It's really cool to see how this whole podcasting
2.0 thing is shaking things up,you know?

Google voice 2 (06:09):
Yeah, it's definitely challenging the
status quo.

Google voice 1 (06:12):
Like it's really pushing for a more, I don't know,
a more democratic way of doingthings.

Google voice 2 (06:17):
Exactly. It's about giving power back to the
creators. Yeah, and to thelisteners, too.

Google voice 1 (06:22):
And that's something I think a lot of
people can get behind, right?

Google voice 2 (06:25):
Absolutely. But there are definitely some
hurdles, some challenges thatthis movement is going to have
to overcome.

Google voice 1 (06:32):
Oh, yeah, for sure. Like what?

Google voice 2 (06:34):
Well, I think one of the biggest challenges is
simply awareness.

Google voice 1 (06:37):
Awareness?

Google voice 2 (06:38):
Yeah. A lot of people just don't even know
about podcasting 2.0 yet.

Google voice 1 (06:41):
That's true.
It's still kind of under theradar, isn't it?

Google voice 2 (06:44):
It is. And even for those who have heard about
it, there's often this like,hesitation.

Google voice (06:49):
Hesitation? Like, what do you mean?

Google voice 2 (06:51):
Well, you know, some people might think, okay,
this all sounds great, but is itcomplicated? Right.

Google voice 1 (06:55):
Right.

Google voice 2 (06:56):
Like, do I need to be some kind of tech wizard
to figure this out?

Google voice 1 (06:58):
I think that's a valid concern. I mean, not
everyone's comfortable with allthe technical stuff.

Google voice 2 (07:02):
Exactly. And that's something the podcasting
2.0 community is really aware of.

Google voice 1 (07:06):
So what are they doing about it?

Google voice 2 (07:08):
Well, they're working hard to make it as user
friendly as possible.

Google voice 1 (07:11):
That's good to hear.

Google voice 2 (07:12):
Yeah. One of our sources actually said we need to
make podcasting 2.0understandable and easy on the
front end, just like YouTube.
Hide the wallets, don't make itfront and center. That's the
only way to win.

Google voice 1 (07:24):
Mm hmm. Hide the wallets. I like that. It's like,
make it so simple that anyonecan use it without having to
understand all the complicatedstuff behind the scenes.

Google voice 2 (07:32):
Exactly. But making it user friendly, that's
just one piece of the puzzle.
All right, what else? Anotherbig challenge is getting buy in
from those big platforms we weretalking about earlier, the.

Google voice 1 (07:41):
Spotify, the Apple Podcasts, all those guys.

Google voice (07:44):
Right. And, well, convincing them to embrace the
whole open ecosystem thing. It'snot always.

Google voice 1 (07:50):
Easy because they have their own priorities,
their own way of doing things.

Google voice 2 (07:53):
Exactly. It's like you know, trying to turn a
giant ship around. It takes timeand a lot of effort.

Google voice 1 (07:58):
And sometimes those big ships, they don't want
to change course.

Google voice 2 (08:01):
That's true. But I'm still hopeful.

Google voice 1 (08:03):
Hopeful. But what makes you optimistic?

Google voice 2 (08:06):
Well, we are seeing some progress. More and
more podcasting apps and hostingplatforms are starting to
incorporate those podcasting 2.0features.

Google voice 1 (08:15):
Oh, really? Like what?

Google voice 2 (08:17):
Well, there's a bunch of cool apps out there
like Fountain Pod Verse, Cast,Illmatic. They're all built
around this idea of an openpodcasting ecosystem.

Google voice 1 (08:26):
Hmm. I've heard of some of those. So just by
switching to a different app,listeners can actually
experience those podcasting 2.0features.

Google voice 2 (08:34):
Yep. That's one way to do it.

Google voice 1 (08:35):
Like what kind of features are we talking about
here? Well, a.

Google voice 2 (08:37):
Lot of these apps have something called Boost
two grams.

Google voice 1 (08:40):
Boost two grams.
Okay, that's a new one.

Google voice 2 (08:42):
Yeah, it's really cool. It's basically a
way to send a little tip like amicropayment to a podcast
episode that you really enjoyed.

Google voice 1 (08:48):
Oh, I see. So it's kind of like giving a
virtual high five.

Google voice 2 (08:51):
Exactly. It's a way to show your appreciation
and support directly to thecreator.

Google voice 1 (08:56):
Okay. I can definitely see the appeal of
that.

Google voice 2 (08:58):
And a lot of these apps also have better
chapter support and transcripts.

Google voice 1 (09:01):
So all those things we were talking about
earlier.

Google voice 2 (09:03):
Yup. All designed to make the listening
experience better and moreinteractive.

Google voice 1 (09:07):
This is really cool. Now for creators who want
to get on board with this wholepodcasting 2.0 thing. What do
they need to do?

Google voice 2 (09:14):
Well, the first step is to check their hosting.

Google voice 1 (09:17):
Platform to see if it supports those new
features.

Google voice 2 (09:19):
Exactly. A lot of platforms are starting to
integrate stuff like chaptermarkers and support for booster
grabs.

Google voice 1 (09:25):
So creators don't necessarily have to like,
completely overhaul their setupto start using those features.

Google voice 2 (09:31):
Not necessarily.
And the cool thing aboutpodcasting 2.0 is that it's
constantly evolving.

Google voice 1 (09:36):
So it's getting easier and easier for people to
jump on board.

Google voice 2 (09:39):
Exactly. More creators, more platforms, more
listeners. It's all growingtogether.

Google voice 1 (09:44):
This is so exciting. But, you know,
whenever there's new technology,there's always a risk of, I
don't know, unintendedconsequences. Oh, for.

Google voice 2 (09:52):
Sure. It's important to be aware of those
potential downsides, too.

Google voice 1 (09:55):
Like, what kind of things should we be thinking
about?

Google voice 2 (09:57):
Well, one concern that often comes up is
the complexity issue.

Google voice 1 (10:01):
Right. We talked about that earlier. Not
everyone's a tech wiz.

Google voice 2 (10:03):
Exactly. And there's a risk that podcasting
2.0 could end up excluding thosewho aren't as tech savvy.

Google voice 1 (10:10):
Yeah, we don't want to create this digital
divide where some people haveaccess to all the cool new stuff
and others get left behind.

Google voice 2 (10:18):
Absolutely. And that's something that the
podcasting 2.0 community needsto be really mindful of. You
know, make sure things areaccessible to everyone,
regardless of their technicalskills.

Google voice 1 (10:27):
It's like we need to make sure that this
whole movement doesn't becomethis exclusive club.

Google voice 2 (10:32):
It should be open and welcoming to everyone.

Google voice 1 (10:34):
Are there any other potential downsides that
we should be aware of?

Google voice 2 (10:39):
Well, another concern is that this whole
emphasis on micropayments anddirect monetization, it could
lead to a more fragmentedpodcasting landscape.

Google voice 1 (10:47):
Fragmented? What do you.

Google voice 2 (10:49):
Mean? Well, imagine a scenario where
listeners have to subscribe tolike a dozen different
micropayment channels just tosupport all their favorite shows.

Google voice 1 (10:58):
Oh, I see what you mean.

Google voice 2 (10:59):
You could get really confusing an overwhelming.

Google voice 1 (11:01):
Yeah. And who wants to juggle like a million
different apps and services justto listen to podcasts?

Google voice 2 (11:06):
Exactly. And it could also disadvantage those
smaller independent podcastsbecause.

Google voice 1 (11:10):
They might get lost in the shuffle.

Google voice 2 (11:12):
Right. So it's like a double edged sword.

Google voice 1 (11:14):
On the one hand, you have this potential for
creators to earn more moneydirectly from their listeners.

Google voice 2 (11:21):
But on the other hand, you have this risk of
creating a more complex andmaybe less accessible listening
experience.

Google voice 1 (11:27):
It's a balancing act, for sure.

Google voice 2 (11:29):
It is, and it highlights the need for careful
consideration as this wholepodcasting 2.0 thing continues
to develop.

Google voice 1 (11:35):
Yeah, it's like we need to find that sweet spot
where everyone benefits bothcreators and listeners.

Google voice 2 (11:41):
Absolutely. And that's going to require open
communication and collaborationfrom everyone involved.

Google voice 1 (11:46):
Yeah, it's not just about the technology. It's
about building a better futurefor podcasting as a whole.

Google voice 2 (11:51):
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Google voice 1 (11:53):
Man, it's wild to think how much the podcasting
world could change.

Google voice 2 (11:57):
You know, it really is. I mean, we've covered
a lot of ground here.

Google voice 1 (11:59):
Yeah, like we talked about the philosophy
behind it, the tech, even someof the potential problems, right?

Google voice 2 (12:05):
Exactly. But I think it's important to remember,
you know, like why this wholepodcasting 2.0 thing is even
happening, right?

Google voice 1 (12:12):
Like, what's driving this movement?

Google voice 2 (12:14):
Yeah, It's easy to get caught up in all the
detail, the.

Google voice 1 (12:16):
Tech stuff, the debates.

Google voice 2 (12:18):
Exactly. But at the end of the day, podcasting
2.0 is about something bigger.

Google voice 1 (12:23):
Okay, so what is it about? At its core.

Google voice 2 (12:27):
It's about creating a better future for
podcasting, for both creatorsand listeners.

Google voice 1 (12:32):
Hmm. Yeah, I can get behind that. So as we're
wrapping up this deep dive, whatare some of the key takeaways?

Google voice 2 (12:39):
Well, first of all, I think it's important to
remember that podcasting 2.0 isnot like a finished product. You
know, it's still evolving.
Exactly. It's a movement. Yeah.
And what it looks like todaymight be totally different from
what it looks like in a fewyears.

Google voice 1 (12:52):
So it's like we're all kind of figuring it
out as we go, right?

Google voice 2 (12:55):
And we all have a role to play in shaping its
future.

Google voice 1 (12:57):
Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, what can listeners
do? Well, for.

Google voice 2 (13:01):
Starters, just be aware of it. You know,
explore those new podcastingapps, support creators who are
embracing podcasting to pointout.

Google voice 1 (13:08):
Yeah, vote with your ears.

Google voice 2 (13:09):
Right, Exactly.
And don't be afraid to, like,dive in and experiment.

Google voice 1 (13:13):
Yeah. Try new things, see what works.

Google voice 2 (13:15):
Totally. It's like a big experiment, and we're
all part of it.

Google voice 1 (13:18):
Cool. But before we get too carried away with all
the exciting stuff, let's talkabout those concerns we brought
up earlier.

Google voice 2 (13:24):
Oh, yeah. Those are important, too.

Google voice 1 (13:26):
Like what are some things we need to be
mindful of as this whole thingkeeps developing?

Google voice 2 (13:31):
Well, I think one of the biggest things is
making sure it's accessible toeveryone, right?

Google voice 1 (13:35):
Regardless of their technical skills.

Google voice 2 (13:37):
Yeah, exactly.
We don't want it to become likethis exclusive club, you know?

Google voice 1 (13:41):
No, it should be open to everyone.

Google voice 2 (13:42):
And another thing is, you know, finding that
balance between directmonetization and keeping the
listening experience simple.

Google voice 1 (13:51):
Right. Because we don't want it to become too
fragmented where you have tojump between a million different
apps.

Google voice 2 (13:56):
Right, Exactly.
It's all about finding thatsweet spot.

Google voice 1 (13:59):
Yeah. Where creators can get paid fairly,
but listeners don't feeloverwhelmed.

Google voice 2 (14:03):
It's a balancing act, for sure.

Google voice 1 (14:05):
It is. But I think if we all keep those
things in mind, you know, thosepotential challenges, we can
really make this wholepodcasting 2.0 thing work.

Google voice 2 (14:13):
I agree. And I think the key is communication.
Like, we need to keep talkingabout it, sharing ideas,
figuring out solutions together.

Google voice 1 (14:21):
Yeah, it's a collaborative effort.

Google voice 2 (14:23):
Absolutely. So as we wrap up, is there like one
main thing you want to leave ourlisteners with?

Google voice 1 (14:28):
Yeah, Good question. Hmm. I guess it would
be to, you know, just keep anopen mind. Don't be afraid to
explore the possibilities ofpodcasting 2.0.

Google voice 2 (14:38):
I like that.
Embrace the change, you know?

Google voice 1 (14:40):
Exactly. Because who knows? This could be the
start of something truly amazing.

Google voice 2 (14:44):
It could be.

Google voice 1 (14:46):
Well, that's about all the time we have for
today. Thanks for joining us onthis deep dive into podcasting
2.0. We hope you learn somethingnew and maybe even got a little
inspired. Until next time, keepexploring, keep listening, and
most importantly, keeppodcasting.

Google voice 2 (14:59):
See ya.