December 12, 2024 • 17 mins
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Ross Adams discusses Acast's acquisition of Wonder Media Network for $7.8 million, marking a strategic move to enhance their creative studio capabilities. The acquisition strengthens Acast's position in the US market while expanding their ability to produce high-quality branded content and original productions. Ross also shares insights about Acast's first profitable quarter and their focus on video podcasting as a growing opportunity.
Shira Atkins, CEO of Wonder Media Network, provides valuable insights into the branded podcasting industry, revealing how they work with Fortune 500 companies to create authentic content that resonates with audiences. She emphasizes the importance of strategic groundwork and consultation to ensure podcast success, noting that while corporate podcasts might not naturally attract listeners like true crime shows, they can be compelling when done right.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Sethi (00:12):
Hello and welcome back to Pot Newsweekly. I'm
joined by a very good friend ofthe show. His name is Ross Adams.
Ross, Hello, how are you?
Ross Adams (00:19):
Hey, Sam. Good to be here. Thank you.
Sam Sethi (00:21):
Now, look, you've been busy getting the checkbook
out. A cool $7.8 million It is.
You've bought a company calledOne Day Media Network, and
you've formed a new divisioncalled ACOSS Creative Studio. So
let's start off with what isAcast Creative Studios and why
did you buy One Day Media?
Ross Adams (00:41):
This is a really exciting acquisition for us. You
came to our London opening ofthe ACORN Studios, which have
video and audio capabilitiesthis year. We've been very
intentional about focusing onAmerica, expanding here. I think
we talked also about things likeomni channel opportunities and
how the larger briefs are comingin from brands, and we need to
start thinking about how weproperly produce and handle that
(01:03):
content. And so, you know, we'vebeen friends with Wonder Media
for a long time and alwaysamazed at the high quality stuff
they produce. And of course, wecould start our own production
probably get it wrong over threeyears and we'd be nowhere where
they are. So I think for us itmakes sense that we acquired a
company that did this.
Culturally, it matches so welland then I think from the work
(01:23):
they've done, it speaks foritself. You know, you think
about the productions they dowhen it comes to original
content and the high qualitythey produce and the name they
have in market. It's reallyimportant for us that we have a
proper stamp of approval ifwe're going to put stuff out
there. And I think the brandedcontent they're producing and
the opportunities we see and wenormally farm that out because
we don't have those skill setsinternally.
Sam Sethi (01:47):
So Ross, where do you see this going? Is it going to
be internationalisation ofbranded podcasts? Is it just us
only? But how do you see thisdeveloping?
Ross Adams (01:56):
We are a global international company and I
think that we have the studiocapabilities in pretty much
every market we've got feet onthe ground in the US is a core
focus for us. So I think this isa very intentional US focused
acquisition. But the strategicside and learning from how we
produce content, how we scalethat there's definite
applications we're going tostart to do globally. And you
(02:19):
know, someone who understandsexactly what we're trying to do
and how we scale that everymarket is got a nuance, but I
think we can learn a huge amountwhich we can apply to most
markets. Yes.
Sam Seth (02:29):
Talking about markets, you've recently just grown your
team in Holland with MartinGarrets. You partnered with
companies in China and Japanearlier in the year, and you've
done that in France and otherterritories. Is that the route
for you? Is it partnership firstbefore FT on Street?
Ross Adams (02:46):
Yeah, I think, you know, we would look at the
signals of podcasting and atdifferent stages and different
markets. Netherlands is a reallycrucial market when it comes to
Europe. So if you look from anadvertising agency standpoint,
you have the big five, they talkabout, which is UK, France,
Germany, Spain, Italy. Andthat's what a lot of brands want
to buy those markets, butactually quickly swap out Spain,
(03:06):
Italy for Netherlands, a lot ofthe European and global brands
position themselves in theNetherlands. So it's such a
strategic market from an imageperspective. And also we start
to see the podcast marketrapidly expand there and we sign
the right kind of audiences andpartners there. So it made sense
that we hired Martin and putfeet on the ground rather than
kind of servicing it from aprogrammatic and international
(03:27):
point of view from London.
Sam Sethi (03:29):
Now, we spoke to you earlier in the year, roughly
around February was the ten yearanniversary of ICOs. We looked
back at what you guys had done.
We talked about the Londonstudio, the Q3 results were good.
The CEO and have you had achance to look back? What's 24
been for you?
Ross Adams (03:46):
We don't give ourselves a chance sometimes to
look back. We really should takebecause we've had a very
successful year. I think a bigfocus has been growing the US
opportunity and really establishourselves here and I think we've
done that focusing on building aprofitable business. You know,
Q3 was our first full profitablequarter and we've been very
clear to investors that we'refocused on trying to deliver
(04:07):
profits for the full year aswell. Those results will come
out, of course, in February nextyear, but it has been an
interesting year. The ad markethasn't been incredibly buoyant
everywhere. Some markets we seebetter signs than others in
recovery signs, but in somemarkets have kind of recovered.
But I do feel there aretailwinds now as we approach
2025. I think podcasting isgoing through a real moment this
(04:28):
year and I think video podcastshave definitely been put on the
map is a real opportunity inthat space. And I think for
Acast and the opening of ourstudios, we have to react where
audiences are and where creatorsare going. And so yeah, video's
going to be an interesting partof the kind of omni channel
opportunity for next year for us.
So in kind of summary, veryproud of the team in 2024. We
(04:49):
have had a huge amount ofsuccess in all departments and
to finish the year off with anacquisition, is the cherry on
the cake or is the sweet side?
The onion on the Salmon.
Sam Sethi (05:00):
Show that has a very astute meaning there Now, are
you still bullish on air? Youwere in February. Are you still
bullish that air is going to bepart of the mix?
Ross Adams (05:11):
Definitely. I think, you know, we really think about
air and its involvement incontent creation and kind of a
framework around that. But Ithink how it helps creators is
insanely important. We've got tobe very cautious with it still
because there's still a lot ofunknowns, but I'm still very
bullish about air and I thinkhow we're applying it as well to
our ad technology. Our point toour data strategy is becoming
(05:34):
really, really important andenabling us to move in a lot
quicker way. So yeah, we'restill very bullish about air and
it's.
Sam Sethi (05:41):
Now earlier in the year or I think January you were
blocking YouTube from taking RSSingestion. Is that still the
case? Are you and YouTube madeup?
Ross Adams (05:50):
I mean, we see of course huge growth in
opportunity with YouTube. Ithink we could look at our
monetization model and what'sfair for our creators and how
that operates. So most likelyI'm going to give you any more
than that. We all can be focusedon video as a big part of 2025.
Sam Sethi (06:06):
Do you also see live video or live events in any of
your mix? Because again, Spotifylook like they're going to get
into live events. We see nowmuch more podcasting in real
life events happening and alsoonline events live. Do you see
that as a costs? Next thingyou're going to be doing?
Ross Adams (06:26):
I think it's a really interesting area, and
especially if you look at theomnichannel opportunity and
where our creators going live,you know, has always played a
part in podcast. Butlivestreaming is another area
that I think is reallyinteresting. I think as
traditional TV audiences drop, Ithink as you look at streaming
video sites from prime toPeacock, the amount of ads on
(06:47):
them, you heard Daniel EK talkabout ad fatigue. I do think
there is an opportunity whereaudiences are everywhere and
live streaming is a reallyinteresting proposition for
podcasting, so it's definitelysomething that interests us for
sure.
Sam Sethi (07:00):
And one of the interesting things we are
looking at and all waiting foris the announcement from Spotify
as to how much they're going topay people to watch videos ad
free and again, would you seeAcast getting into a
subscription based payment modelwhere you would remove ads from
podcasts and start to pay peopleas creators from the
(07:23):
subscription revenue that theygenerate?
Ross Adams (07:26):
I mean, we've kind of like dabbled in those areas.
You look at the deal that westruck with Amazon a couple of
years ago, which it was thatsent to Amazon Prime and Amazon
Music Unlimited customers. Sowe've kind of tested in those
kind of areas. Again, we arecreating first company and if
the model works and we canremunerate creators in a better
way, we'll always evolve to thatway. Right now, with this
(07:48):
Spotify proposition, I don'tthink anyone really knows and
understands how it's going towork. There are very strict
thresholds to meet, but again,if there's an opportunity for
creators, it's something thatwe'll have to look at and see if
it matches our business strategy.
Sam Sethi (08:01):
Ross Adams, thank you so much. Congratulations on 2024.
You had a great year. Lookingforward to what you do in 25.
Congratulations on theacquisition. If somebody wants
to come along, look at theLondon studios. What's the best
way if they want to know moreabout ICOs, where did they go?
Ross Adams (08:16):
Yeah, I think, you know, of course, going to
Stockholm and getting in touchwith this. It's really on the
website. I think. Obviously ifyou're creative and wanting to
get in touch with ICOs London, Ithink you can email. He'll have
you given the email address outbut some ICOs dot com.
Sam Sethi (08:30):
Excellent Ross have a great Christmas if I don't see
you before and a wonderful newyear. Enjoy it and I'm sure
we'll catch up in 2025.
Ross Adams (08:38):
Likewise. Happy holidays. Thanks.
Sam Sethi (08:40):
We've heard from Ross Adams about the acquisition of
Wonder Media Network. Let's hearfrom the CEO herself, Shira
Atkins. Hello. How are you?
Shira Atkinson (08:49):
I'm great. So good to be here, Sam.
Sam Sethi (08:51):
Well, look, that's a happy Christmas for you in the
family household acquisitiontime. Let's talk about, first of
all, how old is one, the medianetwork.
Shira Atkinson (09:01):
So we started the company about six and a half
years ago, and I co-founded itwith a dear friend of mine from
college, Jenny Kaplan, who isthe CEO. I'm the CEO and we've
built this business together,bootstrapped it, and have about
25 employees now.
Sam Sethi (09:17):
Very nice now. Was there a cost knocking on the
door or were you stalking Rossin various New York cafes? How
did this meeting come about?
Shira Atkinson (09:26):
Very organically and naturally, in the course of
regular business as founders,acquisition is always something
that we think about. And we'vecertainly had conversations over
the years and we actually werefirst connected with Greg and
Veronica and got to know Rosssubsequently. And of course
we've known about a cast andhave had some partnerships over
(09:48):
the years, but we really just itfelt like the right time for us
and it felt like the perfecthome. So I didn't let on that
they were our total frontrunner.
We of course, had some otherconversations, but we really
have felt from the beginninglike this was a match made in
heaven.
Sam Sethi (10:07):
Cool. Yeah. No, never let hold any negotiations. Of
course, now you have zeros tendto drop off checks very fast.
Branded podcasting. It's grown.
We've got a company in the UKcalled Lower Street. Harry
Morton has done very well. He'sbought Pacific Content brand. So
he's been very bullish that themarket now corporates are
beginning to wake up to thiswhole space. Is that what you've
(10:28):
found as well, that you're notchasing the deals, chasing you
now?
Shira Atkinson (10:35):
Yes, we still do a fair bit of chasing, but it
does feel that brandsincreasingly need to think like
media companies. And if they'regoing to think like media
companies, they need to thinkomni channel. And there are use
cases for audio that are notjust bolt on to an existing
(10:55):
strategy, but are genuinely theright approach for brands and
executives who are really busy.
Or maybe they're better on audiothan they are on video, or
there's a particular kind ofstory that just makes sense and
audio. And I think marketers andcorporate affairs people at even
the world's largest companiesare starting to understand this.
And I'm so glad that there areother companies like Lower
(11:17):
Street and Aja and Glamour.
There's so many lovely peoplethat are doing this work and I
think it is totally a risingtide lifts all boats.
Sam Sethi (11:27):
Do you find that CEOs are trying to be the tail that
wags the dog? Do they try anddictate to you how you're going
to do this or do they defer toyour expertise and let you run
the show for them?
Shira Atkinson (11:38):
For the most part, there's deference to our
expertise. We like when CEOs getinvolved and want to champion
the work. But largely we aredoing a lot of discovery and
strategy work with brands tohelp them figure out why, audio,
why now? What are the goals andhow can we have all of that sort
(11:59):
of ladder up to whatever thecontent is? And it's the thing
that has slightly differentiatedour work in the space is doing a
lot of the consultativegroundwork to ensure that the
podcast is successful because aswe all know, a very crowded
space and it's hard for brandsto break through because it's
not the sexiest you'd ratherlisten to Case file or Gigli
(12:21):
spot than the Pfizer podcast,but we've managed to, with
Pfizer as an example, createcontent that is authentic for
them. But also you want tolisten to because it's good and
it's finding the exact rightaudience.
Sam Sethi (12:33):
How long is a branded podcast? Does the CEO get one
hour? Does he get half an hour?
Does he get 5 minutes? What is agood length for a branded
podcast from a corporate.
Shira Atkinson (12:43):
Though there's absolutely no one size fits all
the use case that you were justdescribing with a CEO sort of
delivering a message perhaps totheir employees. We do that
quite a bit. We've done thatwith companies like G.E., for
example, where it's internallyfacing. So it's not for public
consumption. And in some cases,that's actually it's better for
(13:04):
a brand. They're getting theirchops in audio with a very
specific audience. We do havesome understanding. We typically
don't go above 20 minutes forany internally facing content
that feels laborious forexternal. It totally depends.
We've done narrative audiodocumentaries for brands, and
we've also done more thoughtleadership. Similarly, we try to
(13:25):
stay sort of in the 20 to 30minute range for episodes, but
we've certainly gone shorter andalso longer. We let the sort of
content dictate the length.
Sam Sethi (13:33):
And seemingly don't put advertising into the branded
podcasting, and that would be abit weird.
Shira Atkinson (13:39):
Well, so we have done it in a few cases, but not
advertising as such. It's takingthe principles of advertising
and applying it in a strategicfashion. So we've done quite a
bit of work with greenhousesoftware, the job platform, our
platform and we made ads forthem, for their partners. So
they have like Checker, thebackground check company, for
(13:59):
example, as a plug in in theirsystem. And we made ads for this
partner in exchange forpromotion to their audience. So
we will come up with strategieslike that all the time. But for
the most part, the content is anad it shouldn't feel like an ad
infomercial. Yes.
Sam Sethi (14:21):
Now, we talked to Ross briefly about how he sees
air being used within a custom.
You can see it within the dataanalytics and elements of that
notebook that the AI chatty hostthat they are. Oh, people just
go, Oh, we just chock a documentinto Michael. And that's the
branded podcast done, isn't it?
Is that some of the stupiditythat you're hearing people just
(14:42):
using that as the alternative?
Shira Atkinson (14:46):
We're not tending to speak to the kinds of
brands that would do that. A lotof our clients are very large
Fortune five hundreds, and forthem there's also a lot of red
tape and legal process andunderstanding the nuances of
what happens in the content andalso working with teams that
care deeply about storytelling.
I can be a helpful part of theprocess from a research
(15:09):
perspective, but certainly notfrom a from a content
perspective. There's not yetperhaps one day, but at the
moment there's not yet thecapability to meet the needs of
these kinds of brands that takea lot of care and every single
word that comes out.
Sam Sethi (15:24):
I can see why a cast is a great fit because of their
international footprint. And Ican see how brands are global
and therefore working with youvery much to increase their
footprint as well. Are you goingto get into internationalization
through language as well? Areyou going to stick to English
only or do you look at, say,Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, French,
(15:45):
German, Will you get into thosemarkets as well?
Shira Atkinson (15:48):
Yes, definitely.
We have actually produced somecontent already in other
languages. It's something thatwe care a lot about. So excited
about the potential with a questto continue to do that. I know I
mentioned Pfizer already. Pfizeris a global company. They have
offices all over the world. Theyactually have some podcasts in
Germany and in South America,and they're desperate for us to
(16:09):
get involved in those markets aswell. And we haven't yet fully
have the capability to do so. SoI'm really excited to do that.
Sam Sethi (16:19):
Sure. Can I just recommend that you take
Christmas off, relax, and Ithink your time is going to be
so busy, it's going to beridiculously mad. You might be
on a flight once or 20,000 times,I think. But can I just say
congratulations as well for anyentrepreneurs, CEO, S.R.O., to
get their company frombootstrapping all the way
(16:40):
through to sale at a massiveround of applause from me. So
well done to you.
Shira Atkinson (16:45):
Thank you so much. We're thrilled. And the
best part about it is, as I know,Ross talks about it all the time
as the culture and the people,and we take a lot of pride in
our team and it's such awonderful vibe and it just feels
like it really fits. So we can'twait to see what the next
chapter brings.
Hello and welcome back to Pot Newsweekly. I'm
joined by a very good friend ofthe show. His name is Ross Adams.
Ross, Hello, how are you?
Ross Adams (00:19):
Hey, Sam. Good to be here. Thank you.
Sam Sethi (00:21):
Now, look, you've been busy getting the checkbook
out. A cool $7.8 million It is.
You've bought a company calledOne Day Media Network, and
you've formed a new divisioncalled ACOSS Creative Studio. So
let's start off with what isAcast Creative Studios and why
did you buy One Day Media?
Ross Adams (00:41):
This is a really exciting acquisition for us. You
came to our London opening ofthe ACORN Studios, which have
video and audio capabilitiesthis year. We've been very
intentional about focusing onAmerica, expanding here. I think
we talked also about things likeomni channel opportunities and
how the larger briefs are comingin from brands, and we need to
start thinking about how weproperly produce and handle that
(01:03):
content. And so, you know, we'vebeen friends with Wonder Media
for a long time and alwaysamazed at the high quality stuff
they produce. And of course, wecould start our own production
probably get it wrong over threeyears and we'd be nowhere where
they are. So I think for us itmakes sense that we acquired a
company that did this.
Culturally, it matches so welland then I think from the work
(01:23):
they've done, it speaks foritself. You know, you think
about the productions they dowhen it comes to original
content and the high qualitythey produce and the name they
have in market. It's reallyimportant for us that we have a
proper stamp of approval ifwe're going to put stuff out
there. And I think the brandedcontent they're producing and
the opportunities we see and wenormally farm that out because
we don't have those skill setsinternally.
Sam Sethi (01:47):
So Ross, where do you see this going? Is it going to
be internationalisation ofbranded podcasts? Is it just us
only? But how do you see thisdeveloping?
Ross Adams (01:56):
We are a global international company and I
think that we have the studiocapabilities in pretty much
every market we've got feet onthe ground in the US is a core
focus for us. So I think this isa very intentional US focused
acquisition. But the strategicside and learning from how we
produce content, how we scalethat there's definite
applications we're going tostart to do globally. And you
(02:19):
know, someone who understandsexactly what we're trying to do
and how we scale that everymarket is got a nuance, but I
think we can learn a huge amountwhich we can apply to most
markets. Yes.
Sam Seth (02:29):
Talking about markets, you've recently just grown your
team in Holland with MartinGarrets. You partnered with
companies in China and Japanearlier in the year, and you've
done that in France and otherterritories. Is that the route
for you? Is it partnership firstbefore FT on Street?
Ross Adams (02:46):
Yeah, I think, you know, we would look at the
signals of podcasting and atdifferent stages and different
markets. Netherlands is a reallycrucial market when it comes to
Europe. So if you look from anadvertising agency standpoint,
you have the big five, they talkabout, which is UK, France,
Germany, Spain, Italy. Andthat's what a lot of brands want
to buy those markets, butactually quickly swap out Spain,
(03:06):
Italy for Netherlands, a lot ofthe European and global brands
position themselves in theNetherlands. So it's such a
strategic market from an imageperspective. And also we start
to see the podcast marketrapidly expand there and we sign
the right kind of audiences andpartners there. So it made sense
that we hired Martin and putfeet on the ground rather than
kind of servicing it from aprogrammatic and international
(03:27):
point of view from London.
Sam Sethi (03:29):
Now, we spoke to you earlier in the year, roughly
around February was the ten yearanniversary of ICOs. We looked
back at what you guys had done.
We talked about the Londonstudio, the Q3 results were good.
The CEO and have you had achance to look back? What's 24
been for you?
Ross Adams (03:46):
We don't give ourselves a chance sometimes to
look back. We really should takebecause we've had a very
successful year. I think a bigfocus has been growing the US
opportunity and really establishourselves here and I think we've
done that focusing on building aprofitable business. You know,
Q3 was our first full profitablequarter and we've been very
clear to investors that we'refocused on trying to deliver
(04:07):
profits for the full year aswell. Those results will come
out, of course, in February nextyear, but it has been an
interesting year. The ad markethasn't been incredibly buoyant
everywhere. Some markets we seebetter signs than others in
recovery signs, but in somemarkets have kind of recovered.
But I do feel there aretailwinds now as we approach
2025. I think podcasting isgoing through a real moment this
(04:28):
year and I think video podcastshave definitely been put on the
map is a real opportunity inthat space. And I think for
Acast and the opening of ourstudios, we have to react where
audiences are and where creatorsare going. And so yeah, video's
going to be an interesting partof the kind of omni channel
opportunity for next year for us.
So in kind of summary, veryproud of the team in 2024. We
(04:49):
have had a huge amount ofsuccess in all departments and
to finish the year off with anacquisition, is the cherry on
the cake or is the sweet side?
The onion on the Salmon.
Sam Sethi (05:00):
Show that has a very astute meaning there Now, are
you still bullish on air? Youwere in February. Are you still
bullish that air is going to bepart of the mix?
Ross Adams (05:11):
Definitely. I think, you know, we really think about
air and its involvement incontent creation and kind of a
framework around that. But Ithink how it helps creators is
insanely important. We've got tobe very cautious with it still
because there's still a lot ofunknowns, but I'm still very
bullish about air and I thinkhow we're applying it as well to
our ad technology. Our point toour data strategy is becoming
(05:34):
really, really important andenabling us to move in a lot
quicker way. So yeah, we'restill very bullish about air and
it's.
Sam Sethi (05:41):
Now earlier in the year or I think January you were
blocking YouTube from taking RSSingestion. Is that still the
case? Are you and YouTube madeup?
Ross Adams (05:50):
I mean, we see of course huge growth in
opportunity with YouTube. Ithink we could look at our
monetization model and what'sfair for our creators and how
that operates. So most likelyI'm going to give you any more
than that. We all can be focusedon video as a big part of 2025.
Sam Sethi (06:06):
Do you also see live video or live events in any of
your mix? Because again, Spotifylook like they're going to get
into live events. We see nowmuch more podcasting in real
life events happening and alsoonline events live. Do you see
that as a costs? Next thingyou're going to be doing?
Ross Adams (06:26):
I think it's a really interesting area, and
especially if you look at theomnichannel opportunity and
where our creators going live,you know, has always played a
part in podcast. Butlivestreaming is another area
that I think is reallyinteresting. I think as
traditional TV audiences drop, Ithink as you look at streaming
video sites from prime toPeacock, the amount of ads on
(06:47):
them, you heard Daniel EK talkabout ad fatigue. I do think
there is an opportunity whereaudiences are everywhere and
live streaming is a reallyinteresting proposition for
podcasting, so it's definitelysomething that interests us for
sure.
Sam Sethi (07:00):
And one of the interesting things we are
looking at and all waiting foris the announcement from Spotify
as to how much they're going topay people to watch videos ad
free and again, would you seeAcast getting into a
subscription based payment modelwhere you would remove ads from
podcasts and start to pay peopleas creators from the
(07:23):
subscription revenue that theygenerate?
Ross Adams (07:26):
I mean, we've kind of like dabbled in those areas.
You look at the deal that westruck with Amazon a couple of
years ago, which it was thatsent to Amazon Prime and Amazon
Music Unlimited customers. Sowe've kind of tested in those
kind of areas. Again, we arecreating first company and if
the model works and we canremunerate creators in a better
way, we'll always evolve to thatway. Right now, with this
(07:48):
Spotify proposition, I don'tthink anyone really knows and
understands how it's going towork. There are very strict
thresholds to meet, but again,if there's an opportunity for
creators, it's something thatwe'll have to look at and see if
it matches our business strategy.
Sam Sethi (08:01):
Ross Adams, thank you so much. Congratulations on 2024.
You had a great year. Lookingforward to what you do in 25.
Congratulations on theacquisition. If somebody wants
to come along, look at theLondon studios. What's the best
way if they want to know moreabout ICOs, where did they go?
Ross Adams (08:16):
Yeah, I think, you know, of course, going to
Stockholm and getting in touchwith this. It's really on the
website. I think. Obviously ifyou're creative and wanting to
get in touch with ICOs London, Ithink you can email. He'll have
you given the email address outbut some ICOs dot com.
Sam Sethi (08:30):
Excellent Ross have a great Christmas if I don't see
you before and a wonderful newyear. Enjoy it and I'm sure
we'll catch up in 2025.
Ross Adams (08:38):
Likewise. Happy holidays. Thanks.
Sam Sethi (08:40):
We've heard from Ross Adams about the acquisition of
Wonder Media Network. Let's hearfrom the CEO herself, Shira
Atkins. Hello. How are you?
Shira Atkinson (08:49):
I'm great. So good to be here, Sam.
Sam Sethi (08:51):
Well, look, that's a happy Christmas for you in the
family household acquisitiontime. Let's talk about, first of
all, how old is one, the medianetwork.
Shira Atkinson (09:01):
So we started the company about six and a half
years ago, and I co-founded itwith a dear friend of mine from
college, Jenny Kaplan, who isthe CEO. I'm the CEO and we've
built this business together,bootstrapped it, and have about
25 employees now.
Sam Sethi (09:17):
Very nice now. Was there a cost knocking on the
door or were you stalking Rossin various New York cafes? How
did this meeting come about?
Shira Atkinson (09:26):
Very organically and naturally, in the course of
regular business as founders,acquisition is always something
that we think about. And we'vecertainly had conversations over
the years and we actually werefirst connected with Greg and
Veronica and got to know Rosssubsequently. And of course
we've known about a cast andhave had some partnerships over
(09:48):
the years, but we really just itfelt like the right time for us
and it felt like the perfecthome. So I didn't let on that
they were our total frontrunner.
We of course, had some otherconversations, but we really
have felt from the beginninglike this was a match made in
heaven.
Sam Sethi (10:07):
Cool. Yeah. No, never let hold any negotiations. Of
course, now you have zeros tendto drop off checks very fast.
Branded podcasting. It's grown.
We've got a company in the UKcalled Lower Street. Harry
Morton has done very well. He'sbought Pacific Content brand. So
he's been very bullish that themarket now corporates are
beginning to wake up to thiswhole space. Is that what you've
(10:28):
found as well, that you're notchasing the deals, chasing you
now?
Shira Atkinson (10:35):
Yes, we still do a fair bit of chasing, but it
does feel that brandsincreasingly need to think like
media companies. And if they'regoing to think like media
companies, they need to thinkomni channel. And there are use
cases for audio that are notjust bolt on to an existing
(10:55):
strategy, but are genuinely theright approach for brands and
executives who are really busy.
Or maybe they're better on audiothan they are on video, or
there's a particular kind ofstory that just makes sense and
audio. And I think marketers andcorporate affairs people at even
the world's largest companiesare starting to understand this.
And I'm so glad that there areother companies like Lower
(11:17):
Street and Aja and Glamour.
There's so many lovely peoplethat are doing this work and I
think it is totally a risingtide lifts all boats.
Sam Sethi (11:27):
Do you find that CEOs are trying to be the tail that
wags the dog? Do they try anddictate to you how you're going
to do this or do they defer toyour expertise and let you run
the show for them?
Shira Atkinson (11:38):
For the most part, there's deference to our
expertise. We like when CEOs getinvolved and want to champion
the work. But largely we aredoing a lot of discovery and
strategy work with brands tohelp them figure out why, audio,
why now? What are the goals andhow can we have all of that sort
(11:59):
of ladder up to whatever thecontent is? And it's the thing
that has slightly differentiatedour work in the space is doing a
lot of the consultativegroundwork to ensure that the
podcast is successful because aswe all know, a very crowded
space and it's hard for brandsto break through because it's
not the sexiest you'd ratherlisten to Case file or Gigli
(12:21):
spot than the Pfizer podcast,but we've managed to, with
Pfizer as an example, createcontent that is authentic for
them. But also you want tolisten to because it's good and
it's finding the exact rightaudience.
Sam Sethi (12:33):
How long is a branded podcast? Does the CEO get one
hour? Does he get half an hour?
Does he get 5 minutes? What is agood length for a branded
podcast from a corporate.
Shira Atkinson (12:43):
Though there's absolutely no one size fits all
the use case that you were justdescribing with a CEO sort of
delivering a message perhaps totheir employees. We do that
quite a bit. We've done thatwith companies like G.E., for
example, where it's internallyfacing. So it's not for public
consumption. And in some cases,that's actually it's better for
(13:04):
a brand. They're getting theirchops in audio with a very
specific audience. We do havesome understanding. We typically
don't go above 20 minutes forany internally facing content
that feels laborious forexternal. It totally depends.
We've done narrative audiodocumentaries for brands, and
we've also done more thoughtleadership. Similarly, we try to
(13:25):
stay sort of in the 20 to 30minute range for episodes, but
we've certainly gone shorter andalso longer. We let the sort of
content dictate the length.
Sam Sethi (13:33):
And seemingly don't put advertising into the branded
podcasting, and that would be abit weird.
Shira Atkinson (13:39):
Well, so we have done it in a few cases, but not
advertising as such. It's takingthe principles of advertising
and applying it in a strategicfashion. So we've done quite a
bit of work with greenhousesoftware, the job platform, our
platform and we made ads forthem, for their partners. So
they have like Checker, thebackground check company, for
(13:59):
example, as a plug in in theirsystem. And we made ads for this
partner in exchange forpromotion to their audience. So
we will come up with strategieslike that all the time. But for
the most part, the content is anad it shouldn't feel like an ad
infomercial. Yes.
Sam Sethi (14:21):
Now, we talked to Ross briefly about how he sees
air being used within a custom.
You can see it within the dataanalytics and elements of that
notebook that the AI chatty hostthat they are. Oh, people just
go, Oh, we just chock a documentinto Michael. And that's the
branded podcast done, isn't it?
Is that some of the stupiditythat you're hearing people just
(14:42):
using that as the alternative?
Shira Atkinson (14:46):
We're not tending to speak to the kinds of
brands that would do that. A lotof our clients are very large
Fortune five hundreds, and forthem there's also a lot of red
tape and legal process andunderstanding the nuances of
what happens in the content andalso working with teams that
care deeply about storytelling.
I can be a helpful part of theprocess from a research
(15:09):
perspective, but certainly notfrom a from a content
perspective. There's not yetperhaps one day, but at the
moment there's not yet thecapability to meet the needs of
these kinds of brands that takea lot of care and every single
word that comes out.
Sam Sethi (15:24):
I can see why a cast is a great fit because of their
international footprint. And Ican see how brands are global
and therefore working with youvery much to increase their
footprint as well. Are you goingto get into internationalization
through language as well? Areyou going to stick to English
only or do you look at, say,Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, French,
(15:45):
German, Will you get into thosemarkets as well?
Shira Atkinson (15:48):
Yes, definitely.
We have actually produced somecontent already in other
languages. It's something thatwe care a lot about. So excited
about the potential with a questto continue to do that. I know I
mentioned Pfizer already. Pfizeris a global company. They have
offices all over the world. Theyactually have some podcasts in
Germany and in South America,and they're desperate for us to
(16:09):
get involved in those markets aswell. And we haven't yet fully
have the capability to do so. SoI'm really excited to do that.
Sam Sethi (16:19):
Sure. Can I just recommend that you take
Christmas off, relax, and Ithink your time is going to be
so busy, it's going to beridiculously mad. You might be
on a flight once or 20,000 times,I think. But can I just say
congratulations as well for anyentrepreneurs, CEO, S.R.O., to
get their company frombootstrapping all the way
(16:40):
through to sale at a massiveround of applause from me. So
well done to you.
Shira Atkinson (16:45):
Thank you so much. We're thrilled. And the
best part about it is, as I know,Ross talks about it all the time
as the culture and the people,and we take a lot of pride in
our team and it's such awonderful vibe and it just feels
like it really fits. So we can'twait to see what the next
chapter brings.
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