April 2, 2025 • 29 mins
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show I'm joined by Vision Australia's National Access Technology Manager and Seeing Eye Dogs handler Damo McMorrow is joining us to talk about his partnership and work with Jenna, settling in as a new team and working in new environments- like travelling to hotels in unfamiliar locations!
We're then going to talk about some of the Access Technology options that can help handlers working with dog guides. The rest of our interview about Access Technology will be available to podcast.
If you’d like to speak to our Access Technology specialists you can email ATC.help@visionaustralia.org or ring the AT helpdesk 1300 84 74 66.
If you’d like to learn about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, becoming a handler, or supporting us head to our website at sed.visionaustralia.org.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:11):
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
joined by Damien McMorrow, who is a seeing Eye dogs
handler and Vision Australia's national access technology manager. Damien joined
me just after he started working with Jana, so we're
going to have a bit of an update on how
they are traveling together and some of the interesting things
(00:34):
about life of a seeing Eye dogs handler. Then we're
going to talk about some things access technology, including some
of the access technology that Damo uses. This is only
part one of the segment on access technology. So the
other part of that will be aired next week as well.
So don't forget to tune in as well next week.
So without further ado, here is part one of my
(00:56):
interview with Damo. Hi Damien, thanks for joining me on
the show today.
S2 (01:06):
Thank you for having me.
S1 (01:08):
It's great to have you back. Could you please start
off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:11):
Yeah, sure. I'm Damien McMorrow, so I'm the national access
technology manager at Vision Australia. Uh, been with Vision Australia
coming up to 11 years. And, uh, I am also
a seeing eye dog handler and currently working with my
fourth seeing eye dog, whose name is Jenna.
S1 (01:32):
I think we briefly spoke at the very start of, um,
your partnership with Jenna. How is it going and how
long have you been working together now?
S2 (01:41):
Um, so got Jenna in February last year. So just
just coming up on a year. Um, my previous Seeing
Eye dog, Ebony, um, had worked pretty much full term,
so for eight years. So that was a long and
successful partnership. And, uh, I think with any dog, the,
(02:01):
you know, the transition takes time and it's very different.
It feels very different. Um, I think probably your confidence
takes a bit of a hit initially, because everything sort
of just requires a little bit more conscious effort and
conscious thought. Um, and obviously, you know, dogs all just
like humans, respond in different ways to different situations and
(02:24):
all of that kind of thing. So, um, you know,
it is a learning curve, but, uh, overall it's gone
extremely well.
S1 (02:32):
As a puppy carer, I pretty much refresh the dog
that I've got for want of a better term. And
I am joking, but I, you know, give up one puppy, um,
you know, at the end of 12 months and then
get another one. Um, and I find it staggering sometimes
trying to remind myself of the things that are not
natural to a less experienced dog. And I suppose the
difference between an eight week old puppy, inexperienced, and a
(02:55):
two year old dog experience. Do you find that you
know that I guess you were used to a dog
that can, you know, really read you?
S2 (03:04):
Oh yeah. Definitely.
S1 (03:06):
To a silly baby. Pretty much.
S2 (03:08):
Yep. Yeah, very much so. And also, you know, it's
it's about, um, you reading them as well, you know,
and understanding that, for example, when you first get a
new dog, often they don't have the, the attention span
or the mental stamina. So you might do a, a
half hour or an hour's walk and then they'll come
home and, and crash for an hour because they're tired,
(03:30):
you know. Whereas an older dog, you know, may or
may not. Um, so you know, yeah, there are definitely
differences in, in that regard. Um, but they also just
have different personalities. You know, Jenna is quite a sensitive dog.
She also has a a bit of an element of
stubborn in her. Um, if she doesn't want to do something. So,
(03:51):
you know, it's it's just sort of working around those
things and and working out okay when that happens. How
what what does she respond to, you know. Um, and
that's just a so that's just part of that learning
curve really I think. Um, but, yeah, look, it was
a difficult few months just because we, um, you know,
work's fairly busy, and I was doing quite a bit
(04:13):
of travel, so I think, um, we'd been together about
two months when we did our first trip, which was
a work trip to Perth from Brisbane.
S1 (04:20):
Um, wow.
S2 (04:21):
That's, you know.
S1 (04:22):
That's got to be the longest flight that you can take.
S2 (04:25):
I think just about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it certainly drags
on like a double episode of Home and Away. Um,
you know, when you're sitting on the plane, um, but,
you know. Yeah. And that's. So that was, um, I
suppose in some ways a bit of a baptism of
fire for Jenna, but, um, you know, she's she's taken
it all in her stride, and she's, um, working very well.
S1 (04:47):
I guess when it comes down to it, is that
the instructors, upon matching you two, were probably quite aware. Um,
or at least you would have informed them that those
types of things would be on the card and on
the table, and and I guess they'd really have to
make sure that they've matched you with the dog. That
probably is going to be pretty. Yeah, up to the
task as far.
S2 (05:07):
As I.
S1 (05:07):
Think, yes.
S2 (05:08):
I think probably the hardest thing is that or where
my situations, you know, perhaps a little different to some
is that I do because of the job I do,
I do travel in unfamiliar environments. Um, so I do
kind of need a dog who is fairly resilient and
doesn't stress out if we do something different, you know?
Whereas for some dogs they do the same route to
(05:30):
work each day, the same route to the local shops
a few times a week, perhaps. You know, not everybody
sort of travels in as many different places as I do.
So that was a big part of one of the.
And that was definitely one of the things that I
stressed to them during the matching process, that that is
something that I need, you know, along along with things like,
(05:51):
you know, obviously willingness to toilet on lead, because when
you're in a hotel and you've got to find grass
or whatever, then that's, you know, you need that. Um, and,
you know, there were a few other things around that
that we, um, that we, we looked at as part
of that matching process.
S1 (06:07):
And I guess when you say with her being sensitive
and what way is she sensitive and how do you
kind of.
S2 (06:13):
Um.
S1 (06:14):
I guess overcome that in the, in the ways that
you do.
S2 (06:17):
I think, um, we had we had one incident where
there was just one part of my walk to work
that she just didn't like, and we don't to this day,
we don't really know why. Um, I don't know whether
there was a dog there, whether it smelt strange. Um,
there was a particular apartment building that she just didn't
(06:38):
like passing, and we don't really know why that was. And, um,
and she would literally just stop and refuse to to move.
Refuse to go anywhere. Um, sometimes you could coax her
through it. And then once you sort of got, you know,
50 yards up the road, it was like, oh, okay,
let's go then, you know. Um, you know, and in
the end, with that one, we just had to change
(06:59):
the route to work so that we didn't go that way. Unfortunately,
we had that option that we could do it. Um,
but um, that was a little bit, a little bit
trying for a little while. Um, and as I said,
we really don't know what the issue was. Um, whereas
I guess my previous dog, Ebony was just was a,
you know, perhaps just a little more easygoing, sort of like, oh, yeah, okay, whatever,
(07:24):
you know, and just didn't, didn't respond to to whatever was,
was bothering Jenna in that scenario. And I really don't know. Um, so, yeah,
in that way, she's, um, a little bit sensitive. And, uh,
the other funny thing, we rehomed Ebony because, um, my
wife has a seeing eye dog as well, and having
three big dogs in a small house wouldn't have really
(07:46):
worked too well. But we Ebony came back and stayed
with us for a few weeks while her new owners
were overseas. And, uh, I took, um, Ebony out out
the back and had a game of Frisbee with her. Um,
we got got one of these, uh, Kong frisbees that
(08:06):
responds quite well to being, uh, you know, the rough
and tumble of a dog. And, um, I came back
in and Jenna was a bit sulky that I'd been
spending a few minutes with Ebony, and so she decided
to ignore me and and spend the rest of the
day sitting next to my wife. So, you know, we're.
And that was something, again, that Ebony just didn't do.
And my previous dogs haven't done. So when I say
(08:28):
she's sort of sensitive in that way, um, you know,
whether whether you would call it sensitive or whether she's
just a little bit more emotionally complex, um, than what
I was used to. That did take a little bit
of adjustment.
S1 (08:41):
It's quite funny that that, like, almost I don't know,
maybe it's just that she's kind of thinking. Yeah. Thinking
a bit deeper about things and she's really taking it
in and like. Yeah. Feeling things. Yes. That in the
way that Emmett is just, like cool. Yeah. I'm not bothered.
That's quite fascinating.
S2 (08:59):
It is. I mean, we do we do call her
little miss. Thinks too much sometimes. Um, because that's. But
but then, you know, I mean, I guess in one
way that's a testament to the matching process, because I'm
guilty of doing that myself. Sometimes I overthink things and
ruminate on things for too long that I probably shouldn't
worry about. So, you know, maybe that's just a testament
to the, uh, the matching process at Cedar that it's, uh,
(09:22):
they've got a closer match than perhaps they even realized.
S1 (09:25):
Yeah. And I guess when you're, um, as you said,
you're kind of working here and really unfamiliar, um, places
quite a lot is you probably do need a dog.
That is, I guess, really able to think and, like,
problem solve in, in a way. I mean, what, you know.
S2 (09:40):
Yeah, very much so. Yeah. So probably two things. I
think resilience is one thing where, okay, if we if
we happen to pick the wrong door and we need
to have another go at it to get it right
because it's an unfamiliar space, then that's something that I needed. Um,
you know, where some dogs will sort of give up
and go, well, I don't know what you want. You
figure it out. Um, I'm confused.
S1 (10:03):
Now.
S2 (10:03):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I've probably got fairly
reasonable O&M skills myself. So usually between us we can
troubleshoot it. But, um, I do need a dog that'll
sort of work with me to troubleshoot that and go
hang on. Maybe that was the wrong way. Maybe we'll
backtrack to this point and then try the other direction.
You know, that sort of thing. Um, so resilience is
a big part of it, I think. Um, and yes, um,
(10:28):
you know, that that initiative to be able to think,
to be able to find things and, and fortunately, Jenna
is very good with that, you know. So find the counter,
find the door, those sorts of things she's, she's really
good at and seems to like doing. Um, so she
actually seems to thrive on those unfamiliar places. Um, you
can sort of tell in her demeanour that, oh, hey,
(10:49):
it's something different, something new, some new challenge I've got
to think about.
S1 (10:53):
I'm not bored anymore.
S2 (10:55):
That's right. You know, she seems to, uh, um, be
very focused in those sorts of environments, um, which is
really good. Um, because that's, that is sort of part
of what, you know, what I need her to do
on a fairly regular basis. Um, the other thing that
is good is that she, she does have a phenomenal
(11:15):
memory for places. So, um, we, my wife and I
have a caravan, we do a bit of camping and, uh,
you know, sometimes you might go to a campsite and
then you might not go back there for 6 or
8 months. And she seems to remember from one trip
to the next. Oh, yeah. We went here last time,
you know. Um, so that's, that helps in, in places
(11:37):
that you might not visit very often as well. Isn't
that she seems to remember things, um, extremely well and
be able to repeat them even if you haven't been
there for several months. Um, so, you know, in that way,
it's good. She's she's quite a confident dog. Um, it
just means that in, I think in unfamiliar spaces, you
you have to provide a bit more reassurance and support, um,
(11:59):
and sort of not get flustered when you when something
goes wrong, you sort of take a deep breath, go back,
try again and, uh, and try not if even if
you are a bit, you know, agitated, you try to
not let that show. Um, so, you know, she does
need a bit more reassurance in that environment, but, uh,
that's that's pretty normal, I think.
S1 (12:21):
I mean, to be fair, I guess a lot of
people are the same, you know, and there's different degrees
of how, I guess, either routine oriented we are or
how much people like to swap it up. I know,
you know, people, you know, they obviously they have the
same seat in the kitchen for every, you know, every
single meal. Um, and I guess for us, for some dogs,
you know, they have specific routes that they like to
do and, and others probably less so. So it's quite
(12:45):
interesting the thought of like having to. Yeah, having to
kind of constantly adapt to these new routes and yes.
S2 (12:52):
Yeah it is. And and that's where that resilience piece
comes in I think. And uh, and Jenna certainly seems to,
to cope with that really well.
S1 (13:02):
And so when you are in those new kind of
unfamiliar places. What is her role in a hotel? Out
of curiosity.
S2 (13:12):
So really, it's about, um, the things that I need
Jenna to do in that sort of environment are obviously
finding the counter, finding the lift, and finding the door
to the room. Once we're in the room, I. She
comes out of harness. And because it's important for her
to have that downtime and be able to wander around,
and then I utilize my own O&M skills around the room.
(13:34):
So generally what I'll do is sort of have a
wander around, um, and navigate by feel and sort of say, okay,
the desk is there, the bedside tables are there, the
bed's there. You know, I can usually locate the bathroom using, um,
a technique called echolocation. Uh, and likewise sort of the
windows and, and, or, you know, balcony doors or those
(13:56):
sorts of things. Uh, and I'll generally explore and find
out where the kettle is and the, the tea and
coffee and where I can set up Jenna's Jenny's water
bowl and all of those sorts of things. So I
kind of have a bit of a wander around myself. Um,
and then, um, that way she can have some downtime
while we're in the room and she can have a
(14:16):
sleep or, you know, roll around or play with a
toy or whatever. Um, I don't sort of think it's
fair to keep her in harness in, in a motel
room situation, and I don't I don't need to, you know,
my own O&M skills are adequate for that. Um, and
it's a confined space, too. So there's not really a
lot of, you know, you'd be walking from, you know,
(14:38):
3 or 4 steps from the, the bed to the bathroom.
It would seem ridiculous to harness Jenna for that. So, um,
you know, uh, but obviously then as soon as I
go out again, you know, I leave the room to
maybe go and find dinner or something like that. Then,
you know, we harness up and, um, away we go.
And then she will. She's generally very good at finding
the room. Once she's been shown the door once she will, um,
(15:01):
she'll find it again. Um, she's got a phenomenal memory
for that. But yeah, in the motel room, it's the
same as at home. You know, I we we don't
you don't harness our dogs in the house. Um, unless
we're heading out the door. Um, that's their downtime and
their time to rummage through the toy box and find
a toy that they want. Um, and we, um, my
(15:24):
wife Marion, and I use our own O&M skills, uh,
around the home. It's really for the the sort of
outdoor space navigation and to and from work and all
of those things that, um, that Jenna comes into her own.
S1 (15:38):
Thank you. Because, um, yeah, that was a question that
I was asked, um, recently by, um, a fellow puppy
carer who said, do you use them inside the house?
And I said, I, I from my knowledge, I think
it's pretty, um, yeah. Few and far between if anyone
would use a single dog in the house. But, um,
I know there's that kind of conversation of like, how many,
you know, hours in a day does this thing work?
(15:59):
And it's not necessarily as many as people might think,
depending on the day.
S2 (16:03):
That's right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for my standard work day,
it might be the commute to work, which would be,
you know, an hour or so. Um, we might go
and grab a coffee, um, you know, mid-morning across the road,
or we might go for a walk during the day
and grab some lunch or something like that. Or I
might have a couple of meetings or a client appointment
(16:26):
or something. And then at the end of the day,
obviously the commute home, but generally, uh, if I'm just
sort of working at my desk, Jenna just has a sleep,
you know, and so. Oh, well, nothing exciting happening. I
don't have to go anywhere. I'll just have a rest.
S1 (16:43):
To be fair, I think all of the, um, show
listeners now, anyone who's listened to, you know, any more
than one. Um, probably, yeah. Any more than 1 or 2, uh,
interviews has probably learnt that, um, us seeing eye dogs
love sleeping when the humans have to be hard at work,
whether that's, you know, the gym or, um, office or
people that are doing like, you know, trail running or,
(17:04):
you know, going out and about exploring things that you
know that are not dog appropriate. The dog spend a
lot of time chilling when we're doing hard stuff.
S2 (17:13):
And I think most of them are quite happy to
do that.
S1 (17:16):
Yeah, and I guess that's the reason why a lot
of our dogs are like labs and golden retrievers rather
than kelpies, because they don't need to be constantly up
and about and doing things.
S2 (17:26):
That's right. Yes. Yep. Absolutely.
S1 (17:30):
So one of the things that we, I think touch
on a little bit last time and I'm always, um,
like a bit fascinated about the, I guess the developments
and some of the access technology would be about using
access technology with your dog. Could you talk to us
a little bit about some of the things that you use?
S2 (17:48):
Sure, definitely. So probably one of the, um, game changes
in the last sort of 12 months or so have
been the Ray-Ban meta smart glasses. So these are, um,
they look, for all intents and purposes, like a regular
pair of sunnies, you know, whether they're a Ray-Ban. So
they're come in a few different styles and colors and
(18:11):
all of those sorts of things, but they have a
tiny little camera just above the left eye. So the
top sort of left hand corner of the frame, and
they're also equipped with built in AI. So there's little
speakers in the arms of the glasses that when you.
So when you're wearing them, those speakers are very close
to your ears. And you can then use that use
(18:34):
the built in AI to ask questions. So I can
say things like, uh, you know, common one that I'll
do is, hey, meta, look and tell me what you see.
And if I'm, um, you know, then if I'm looking
for a particular shop, I might say, look and tell
me if there's any signage or look and read me
any text if I've got a menu. Um, so a
(18:55):
good example of that. Um, we were, we had a
weekend away in Melbourne at the end of last year, and, um,
we wanted to do a little bit of shopping. And
those listeners from Melbourne might know the Block Arcade in
Collins Street. And so I we went into the Block
Arcade and we were looking for a couple of things.
We were looking for Haig's chocolates, and we were looking
(19:15):
for the Charles Dickens Tavern to go and have some lunch.
And then we were also looking for a, um, a Birkenstocks, um, shop.
And so what I did was I would sort of
come up to a shop window or a door and
I would say, look and tell me what you see.
And it would tell me, the glasses would tell me
what you know, what was on display, perhaps, or, um,
(19:40):
you know, so or it might say, I see a
what looks like a cafe with lots of tables and
chairs and you think, okay, well, that could be the tavern.
So then I would say, look and tell me if
there's any signage and it might say, oh, you know,
I see a sign that says. And it may or
may not be the business that I'm looking for. So
that sort of stuff is really helpful. Um, because it
means that, um, I can sometimes give Jenna more meaningful directions.
(20:06):
If I can tap into some of the visual cues, um,
that might be there, you know, and I can know. Okay,
do we want to go into this shop or is
it not the one that I want? So, for example,
when I was looking for the Birkenstock's shop, I stood
in front of the shop window and I said, look
and tell me what you see. And it said, I see, um,
a shop window with with shoes and boots on display.
(20:26):
And I said, um, look and tell me if there's
any signage. And there was, but it wasn't the shop
that I wanted. So it meant I didn't have to
go into that one. I thought, okay, I've had a
look on my GPS and I'll talk about that in
a second. Um, I know it's in this block somewhere,
so we'll just go a couple of shops further down
and repeat the process. And then I found it said,
you know, I see a shop with, um, leather sandals
(20:48):
in the window. And I said, you look and see
if there's any signage. And it said, I see a
sign that says Birkenstock. So I was able to to
find the shop that I wanted. So that one's definitely, um,
a bit of a game changer, I think. Um, and
just sometimes being able to, um, get descriptions of things,
you know, looking at if you're standing at a table
(21:10):
and you're not sure if it's occupied or not, you know,
look and tell me if there are any people at
this table, that kind of thing. Um, and you can
also use it in conjunction with services like Be My
Eyes or IRA to get hands free assistance. So you
can be put through to if it's be my eyes,
a volunteer or if it's IRA, one of their agents.
(21:30):
And you can make a video call through the glasses
and they can essentially see what you're looking at and
give you directions that way. So that's pretty handy as well,
because it's hands free. Um, probably the other thing that
I use a lot with Jenna is my stellar Trek GPS. Um,
there are a couple of things, even on familiar routes. Um,
I used it a bit with within training just so
(21:53):
that I could start to cue Jenna, you know, to
find a crossing or those kinds of things. It just
gave me a little bit more information about what was around. Uh,
so I found that that actually worked really well. Um,
and also things that were maybe a little bit difficult
to find initially. Um, you know, I put it, marked it,
put a few more landmarks in the device so that
(22:14):
I could, um, uh, find them easily and give her the,
the reassurance and the confidence to sort of find it
first time. So I found that.
S1 (22:21):
Type of, um, landmarks out of curiosity.
S2 (22:23):
Ah, so things sometimes an entrance to a business that
was maybe a little bit hard to identify. Um, you know,
a particular crossing where you, you know, it's maybe halfway
down a street. So, uh, crossing the road in front
of my house, there's not really any landmarks, you know? Um,
so I marked that so that when I came up
(22:44):
to it, I would hear an alert on the GPS,
and I could start to tell Jenna to to find. Right,
and find the crossing sort of thing. Um, so things
like that, where you might be crossing a road and
not at a corner. So it's not, you know, it's
not obvious. Um, those, those kinds of things, um, I
found really helpful. But also with that, it means that
I can use things like the map browsing mode, and
(23:08):
I can, um, have a look at a map and
I can, I can have a look at. Okay. So
to get from here to here, I'm going to need
to cross three roads. And then at the third one
I'm going to need to turn left on the up
curve and that kind of thing. So having being able
to look at that ahead of time again, it means
that I can be more confident in the directions that
I'm giving Jenna. And so that makes her job easier.
(23:31):
And also, um, you know, means that she doesn't lose confidence. Uh,
so I can be a little bit more sure about
where we're going and what we're doing. Um, and you normally,
then you've got a better chance of getting it right
the first or second time. So, um, you know, and
I think particularly with a new dog, that's actually really important. Um,
so using some of those tools in conjunction with, um,
(23:53):
with my dog just makes a difference to how smoothly
you travel. Uh, it makes a difference for me in
terms of how willing I am to wander around somewhere unfamiliar.
You know, I'm from Brisbane and I'm wandering around the
centre of Melbourne, for example. Um, and therefore, you know,
it means that Marion and I can go off exploring
new places, have a weekend away in Melbourne and actually enjoy,
you know, zipping around and shopping and, you know, seeing
(24:16):
the various sights and trying the various restaurants and things.
S1 (24:20):
I mean, it's amazing, especially like it makes me think of, um,
you know, a spy film or like a spy TV
series from the 90s where everyone's got, you know, it's like,
you know, your shoe is in your phone and you're,
you've got these high tech glasses. It's quite cool, isn't it?
And quite I think the thing that is, I don't know,
I think is quite cool about it is like it's
quite discreet and easy. It doesn't sounds to me like
(24:43):
something that, um, you know, you can really use with
kind of total confidence. It's not like some, you know, massive, bulky,
you know, you don't have to bring out a always and,
you know, try to, um, you know.
S2 (24:57):
And that's the thing, you know, some of the, the, um,
those types of devices that have gone before kind of
make you look like an alien with a.
S1 (25:04):
With a.
S2 (25:05):
Camera sticking out the side of your head. Um, the
other thing about those glasses, too, is that they are
a consumer, a consumer item. They're an everyday piece of tech,
you know that that, um, works for someone with a
vision impairment. You know, they that wasn't what they were
designed for. They were designed for people to post to
their Instagram or their Facebook feed and things like that.
(25:27):
But it just sort of happens that they're actually something
that we can use. But the nice thing is that
you can get them at any sort of standard sunglass
or eyewear type store, um, you know, and, and that they'll,
they'll work quite well out of the box with your
iPhone or your, your Android phone. So it's nice to
have a sort of a mainstream off the shelf piece
(25:49):
of tech that actually works and is a real enabler
for us in terms of navigating the environment.
S1 (25:56):
And can you claim that on NDIS as well?
S2 (26:00):
Not really. Um, well, okay. I would say you could,
but you would do so at your own risk because
they are an everyday item in the same way that
a phone is an everyday item or that type of thing.
And so it's one of those things you could try
and you might get away with it, but you might
not because it technically doesn't meet the guidelines. Um, so
(26:24):
my my advice to people is don't I didn't. Um,
but you know, I can I know there'll be people
who'll who'll jump on me and say, oh, but I did,
and I, you know. So look, if you want to
risk it by all means. But the reading, the Ndia guidelines,
my advice would be that they don't meet the guidelines
and that I would generally not recommend that, that you try, uh,
(26:48):
and if you do, you do so at your own risk.
S1 (26:50):
Out of curiosity, do you have a ballpark of how
much those would cost?
S2 (26:54):
They're about $450.
S1 (26:57):
That's not too bad for something that can enable so much.
S2 (27:00):
Absolutely. When you think that most of the other blindness
specific wearables come in at 4 or $5000.
S1 (27:07):
Yeah, that's what I was wondering if it would be.
S2 (27:09):
Yeah. No. Um, and that's and that's the thing, you know,
that that's the the advantage of it being mainstream tech
is that the price comes down because obviously they can
sell them by the million rather than by the thousand. Um,
but the disadvantage is that the you know, they though
a lot of those things are regarded by the agency
(27:29):
as a non-disability specific item, an everyday item, and therefore
they're not covered, but the fact that they are of
a much more reasonable price tag means that, you know,
most people could probably save up and, and still, you know,
get themselves one.
S1 (27:50):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Damien McMorrow, seeing Eye Dogs, Handler and Vision Australia's National
Access Technology manager. For part two of my interview with Damo, Demo.
Don't forget to tune in same time next week for
another episode of the show, or head to your preferred
podcast provider. If you'd like to find out about seeing
(28:12):
the work you do or how you can help. You
can head to our website at australia.com. If you'd like
help with your access technology. The Access Technology Help desk
at Vision Australia is available weekdays and business hours, and
a little bit later you can call the At help
desk at one 384 7466. That number again is one
(28:36):
384 7466. And ask for the Access Technology Help desk.
Or you can email them at at at Vision Australia. Org.
That is again at help at Vision Australia. Thank you
for listening. And don't forget to tune in. Same time
next week for another episode of the show. Have a
(28:57):
lovely week.
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
joined by Damien McMorrow, who is a seeing Eye dogs
handler and Vision Australia's national access technology manager. Damien joined
me just after he started working with Jana, so we're
going to have a bit of an update on how
they are traveling together and some of the interesting things
(00:34):
about life of a seeing Eye dogs handler. Then we're
going to talk about some things access technology, including some
of the access technology that Damo uses. This is only
part one of the segment on access technology. So the
other part of that will be aired next week as well.
So don't forget to tune in as well next week.
So without further ado, here is part one of my
(00:56):
interview with Damo. Hi Damien, thanks for joining me on
the show today.
S2 (01:06):
Thank you for having me.
S1 (01:08):
It's great to have you back. Could you please start
off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:11):
Yeah, sure. I'm Damien McMorrow, so I'm the national access
technology manager at Vision Australia. Uh, been with Vision Australia
coming up to 11 years. And, uh, I am also
a seeing eye dog handler and currently working with my
fourth seeing eye dog, whose name is Jenna.
S1 (01:32):
I think we briefly spoke at the very start of, um,
your partnership with Jenna. How is it going and how
long have you been working together now?
S2 (01:41):
Um, so got Jenna in February last year. So just
just coming up on a year. Um, my previous Seeing
Eye dog, Ebony, um, had worked pretty much full term,
so for eight years. So that was a long and
successful partnership. And, uh, I think with any dog, the,
(02:01):
you know, the transition takes time and it's very different.
It feels very different. Um, I think probably your confidence
takes a bit of a hit initially, because everything sort
of just requires a little bit more conscious effort and
conscious thought. Um, and obviously, you know, dogs all just
like humans, respond in different ways to different situations and
(02:24):
all of that kind of thing. So, um, you know,
it is a learning curve, but, uh, overall it's gone
extremely well.
S1 (02:32):
As a puppy carer, I pretty much refresh the dog
that I've got for want of a better term. And
I am joking, but I, you know, give up one puppy, um,
you know, at the end of 12 months and then
get another one. Um, and I find it staggering sometimes
trying to remind myself of the things that are not
natural to a less experienced dog. And I suppose the
difference between an eight week old puppy, inexperienced, and a
(02:55):
two year old dog experience. Do you find that you
know that I guess you were used to a dog
that can, you know, really read you?
S2 (03:04):
Oh yeah. Definitely.
S1 (03:06):
To a silly baby. Pretty much.
S2 (03:08):
Yep. Yeah, very much so. And also, you know, it's
it's about, um, you reading them as well, you know,
and understanding that, for example, when you first get a
new dog, often they don't have the, the attention span
or the mental stamina. So you might do a, a
half hour or an hour's walk and then they'll come
home and, and crash for an hour because they're tired,
(03:30):
you know. Whereas an older dog, you know, may or
may not. Um, so you know, yeah, there are definitely
differences in, in that regard. Um, but they also just
have different personalities. You know, Jenna is quite a sensitive dog.
She also has a a bit of an element of
stubborn in her. Um, if she doesn't want to do something. So,
(03:51):
you know, it's it's just sort of working around those
things and and working out okay when that happens. How
what what does she respond to, you know. Um, and
that's just a so that's just part of that learning
curve really I think. Um, but, yeah, look, it was
a difficult few months just because we, um, you know,
work's fairly busy, and I was doing quite a bit
(04:13):
of travel, so I think, um, we'd been together about
two months when we did our first trip, which was
a work trip to Perth from Brisbane.
S1 (04:20):
Um, wow.
S2 (04:21):
That's, you know.
S1 (04:22):
That's got to be the longest flight that you can take.
S2 (04:25):
I think just about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it certainly drags
on like a double episode of Home and Away. Um,
you know, when you're sitting on the plane, um, but,
you know. Yeah. And that's. So that was, um, I
suppose in some ways a bit of a baptism of
fire for Jenna, but, um, you know, she's she's taken
it all in her stride, and she's, um, working very well.
S1 (04:47):
I guess when it comes down to it, is that
the instructors, upon matching you two, were probably quite aware. Um,
or at least you would have informed them that those
types of things would be on the card and on
the table, and and I guess they'd really have to
make sure that they've matched you with the dog. That
probably is going to be pretty. Yeah, up to the
task as far.
S2 (05:07):
As I.
S1 (05:07):
Think, yes.
S2 (05:08):
I think probably the hardest thing is that or where
my situations, you know, perhaps a little different to some
is that I do because of the job I do,
I do travel in unfamiliar environments. Um, so I do
kind of need a dog who is fairly resilient and
doesn't stress out if we do something different, you know?
Whereas for some dogs they do the same route to
(05:30):
work each day, the same route to the local shops
a few times a week, perhaps. You know, not everybody
sort of travels in as many different places as I do.
So that was a big part of one of the.
And that was definitely one of the things that I
stressed to them during the matching process, that that is
something that I need, you know, along along with things like,
(05:51):
you know, obviously willingness to toilet on lead, because when
you're in a hotel and you've got to find grass
or whatever, then that's, you know, you need that. Um, and,
you know, there were a few other things around that
that we, um, that we, we looked at as part
of that matching process.
S1 (06:07):
And I guess when you say with her being sensitive
and what way is she sensitive and how do you
kind of.
S2 (06:13):
Um.
S1 (06:14):
I guess overcome that in the, in the ways that
you do.
S2 (06:17):
I think, um, we had we had one incident where
there was just one part of my walk to work
that she just didn't like, and we don't to this day,
we don't really know why. Um, I don't know whether
there was a dog there, whether it smelt strange. Um,
there was a particular apartment building that she just didn't
(06:38):
like passing, and we don't really know why that was. And, um,
and she would literally just stop and refuse to to move.
Refuse to go anywhere. Um, sometimes you could coax her
through it. And then once you sort of got, you know,
50 yards up the road, it was like, oh, okay,
let's go then, you know. Um, you know, and in
the end, with that one, we just had to change
(06:59):
the route to work so that we didn't go that way. Unfortunately,
we had that option that we could do it. Um,
but um, that was a little bit, a little bit
trying for a little while. Um, and as I said,
we really don't know what the issue was. Um, whereas
I guess my previous dog, Ebony was just was a,
you know, perhaps just a little more easygoing, sort of like, oh, yeah, okay, whatever,
(07:24):
you know, and just didn't, didn't respond to to whatever was,
was bothering Jenna in that scenario. And I really don't know. Um, so, yeah,
in that way, she's, um, a little bit sensitive. And, uh,
the other funny thing, we rehomed Ebony because, um, my
wife has a seeing eye dog as well, and having
three big dogs in a small house wouldn't have really
(07:46):
worked too well. But we Ebony came back and stayed
with us for a few weeks while her new owners
were overseas. And, uh, I took, um, Ebony out out
the back and had a game of Frisbee with her. Um,
we got got one of these, uh, Kong frisbees that
(08:06):
responds quite well to being, uh, you know, the rough
and tumble of a dog. And, um, I came back
in and Jenna was a bit sulky that I'd been
spending a few minutes with Ebony, and so she decided
to ignore me and and spend the rest of the
day sitting next to my wife. So, you know, we're.
And that was something, again, that Ebony just didn't do.
And my previous dogs haven't done. So when I say
(08:28):
she's sort of sensitive in that way, um, you know,
whether whether you would call it sensitive or whether she's
just a little bit more emotionally complex, um, than what
I was used to. That did take a little bit
of adjustment.
S1 (08:41):
It's quite funny that that, like, almost I don't know,
maybe it's just that she's kind of thinking. Yeah. Thinking
a bit deeper about things and she's really taking it
in and like. Yeah. Feeling things. Yes. That in the
way that Emmett is just, like cool. Yeah. I'm not bothered.
That's quite fascinating.
S2 (08:59):
It is. I mean, we do we do call her
little miss. Thinks too much sometimes. Um, because that's. But
but then, you know, I mean, I guess in one
way that's a testament to the matching process, because I'm
guilty of doing that myself. Sometimes I overthink things and
ruminate on things for too long that I probably shouldn't
worry about. So, you know, maybe that's just a testament
to the, uh, the matching process at Cedar that it's, uh,
(09:22):
they've got a closer match than perhaps they even realized.
S1 (09:25):
Yeah. And I guess when you're, um, as you said,
you're kind of working here and really unfamiliar, um, places
quite a lot is you probably do need a dog.
That is, I guess, really able to think and, like,
problem solve in, in a way. I mean, what, you know.
S2 (09:40):
Yeah, very much so. Yeah. So probably two things. I
think resilience is one thing where, okay, if we if
we happen to pick the wrong door and we need
to have another go at it to get it right
because it's an unfamiliar space, then that's something that I needed. Um,
you know, where some dogs will sort of give up
and go, well, I don't know what you want. You
figure it out. Um, I'm confused.
S1 (10:03):
Now.
S2 (10:03):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I've probably got fairly
reasonable O&M skills myself. So usually between us we can
troubleshoot it. But, um, I do need a dog that'll
sort of work with me to troubleshoot that and go
hang on. Maybe that was the wrong way. Maybe we'll
backtrack to this point and then try the other direction.
You know, that sort of thing. Um, so resilience is
a big part of it, I think. Um, and yes, um,
(10:28):
you know, that that initiative to be able to think,
to be able to find things and, and fortunately, Jenna
is very good with that, you know. So find the counter,
find the door, those sorts of things she's, she's really
good at and seems to like doing. Um, so she
actually seems to thrive on those unfamiliar places. Um, you
can sort of tell in her demeanour that, oh, hey,
(10:49):
it's something different, something new, some new challenge I've got
to think about.
S1 (10:53):
I'm not bored anymore.
S2 (10:55):
That's right. You know, she seems to, uh, um, be
very focused in those sorts of environments, um, which is
really good. Um, because that's, that is sort of part
of what, you know, what I need her to do
on a fairly regular basis. Um, the other thing that
is good is that she, she does have a phenomenal
(11:15):
memory for places. So, um, we, my wife and I
have a caravan, we do a bit of camping and, uh,
you know, sometimes you might go to a campsite and
then you might not go back there for 6 or
8 months. And she seems to remember from one trip
to the next. Oh, yeah. We went here last time,
you know. Um, so that's, that helps in, in places
(11:37):
that you might not visit very often as well. Isn't
that she seems to remember things, um, extremely well and
be able to repeat them even if you haven't been
there for several months. Um, so, you know, in that way,
it's good. She's she's quite a confident dog. Um, it
just means that in, I think in unfamiliar spaces, you
you have to provide a bit more reassurance and support, um,
(11:59):
and sort of not get flustered when you when something
goes wrong, you sort of take a deep breath, go back,
try again and, uh, and try not if even if
you are a bit, you know, agitated, you try to
not let that show. Um, so, you know, she does
need a bit more reassurance in that environment, but, uh,
that's that's pretty normal, I think.
S1 (12:21):
I mean, to be fair, I guess a lot of
people are the same, you know, and there's different degrees
of how, I guess, either routine oriented we are or
how much people like to swap it up. I know,
you know, people, you know, they obviously they have the
same seat in the kitchen for every, you know, every
single meal. Um, and I guess for us, for some dogs,
you know, they have specific routes that they like to
do and, and others probably less so. So it's quite
(12:45):
interesting the thought of like having to. Yeah, having to
kind of constantly adapt to these new routes and yes.
S2 (12:52):
Yeah it is. And and that's where that resilience piece
comes in I think. And uh, and Jenna certainly seems to,
to cope with that really well.
S1 (13:02):
And so when you are in those new kind of
unfamiliar places. What is her role in a hotel? Out
of curiosity.
S2 (13:12):
So really, it's about, um, the things that I need
Jenna to do in that sort of environment are obviously
finding the counter, finding the lift, and finding the door
to the room. Once we're in the room, I. She
comes out of harness. And because it's important for her
to have that downtime and be able to wander around,
and then I utilize my own O&M skills around the room.
(13:34):
So generally what I'll do is sort of have a
wander around, um, and navigate by feel and sort of say, okay,
the desk is there, the bedside tables are there, the
bed's there. You know, I can usually locate the bathroom using, um,
a technique called echolocation. Uh, and likewise sort of the
windows and, and, or, you know, balcony doors or those
(13:56):
sorts of things. Uh, and I'll generally explore and find
out where the kettle is and the, the tea and
coffee and where I can set up Jenna's Jenny's water
bowl and all of those sorts of things. So I
kind of have a bit of a wander around myself. Um,
and then, um, that way she can have some downtime
while we're in the room and she can have a
(14:16):
sleep or, you know, roll around or play with a
toy or whatever. Um, I don't sort of think it's
fair to keep her in harness in, in a motel
room situation, and I don't I don't need to, you know,
my own O&M skills are adequate for that. Um, and
it's a confined space, too. So there's not really a
lot of, you know, you'd be walking from, you know,
(14:38):
3 or 4 steps from the, the bed to the bathroom.
It would seem ridiculous to harness Jenna for that. So, um,
you know, uh, but obviously then as soon as I
go out again, you know, I leave the room to
maybe go and find dinner or something like that. Then,
you know, we harness up and, um, away we go.
And then she will. She's generally very good at finding
the room. Once she's been shown the door once she will, um,
(15:01):
she'll find it again. Um, she's got a phenomenal memory
for that. But yeah, in the motel room, it's the
same as at home. You know, I we we don't
you don't harness our dogs in the house. Um, unless
we're heading out the door. Um, that's their downtime and
their time to rummage through the toy box and find
a toy that they want. Um, and we, um, my
(15:24):
wife Marion, and I use our own O&M skills, uh,
around the home. It's really for the the sort of
outdoor space navigation and to and from work and all
of those things that, um, that Jenna comes into her own.
S1 (15:38):
Thank you. Because, um, yeah, that was a question that
I was asked, um, recently by, um, a fellow puppy
carer who said, do you use them inside the house?
And I said, I, I from my knowledge, I think
it's pretty, um, yeah. Few and far between if anyone
would use a single dog in the house. But, um,
I know there's that kind of conversation of like, how many,
you know, hours in a day does this thing work?
(15:59):
And it's not necessarily as many as people might think,
depending on the day.
S2 (16:03):
That's right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for my standard work day,
it might be the commute to work, which would be,
you know, an hour or so. Um, we might go
and grab a coffee, um, you know, mid-morning across the road,
or we might go for a walk during the day
and grab some lunch or something like that. Or I
might have a couple of meetings or a client appointment
(16:26):
or something. And then at the end of the day,
obviously the commute home, but generally, uh, if I'm just
sort of working at my desk, Jenna just has a sleep,
you know, and so. Oh, well, nothing exciting happening. I
don't have to go anywhere. I'll just have a rest.
S1 (16:43):
To be fair, I think all of the, um, show
listeners now, anyone who's listened to, you know, any more
than one. Um, probably, yeah. Any more than 1 or 2, uh,
interviews has probably learnt that, um, us seeing eye dogs
love sleeping when the humans have to be hard at work,
whether that's, you know, the gym or, um, office or
people that are doing like, you know, trail running or,
(17:04):
you know, going out and about exploring things that you
know that are not dog appropriate. The dog spend a
lot of time chilling when we're doing hard stuff.
S2 (17:13):
And I think most of them are quite happy to
do that.
S1 (17:16):
Yeah, and I guess that's the reason why a lot
of our dogs are like labs and golden retrievers rather
than kelpies, because they don't need to be constantly up
and about and doing things.
S2 (17:26):
That's right. Yes. Yep. Absolutely.
S1 (17:30):
So one of the things that we, I think touch
on a little bit last time and I'm always, um,
like a bit fascinated about the, I guess the developments
and some of the access technology would be about using
access technology with your dog. Could you talk to us
a little bit about some of the things that you use?
S2 (17:48):
Sure, definitely. So probably one of the, um, game changes
in the last sort of 12 months or so have
been the Ray-Ban meta smart glasses. So these are, um,
they look, for all intents and purposes, like a regular
pair of sunnies, you know, whether they're a Ray-Ban. So
they're come in a few different styles and colors and
(18:11):
all of those sorts of things, but they have a
tiny little camera just above the left eye. So the
top sort of left hand corner of the frame, and
they're also equipped with built in AI. So there's little
speakers in the arms of the glasses that when you.
So when you're wearing them, those speakers are very close
to your ears. And you can then use that use
(18:34):
the built in AI to ask questions. So I can
say things like, uh, you know, common one that I'll
do is, hey, meta, look and tell me what you see.
And if I'm, um, you know, then if I'm looking
for a particular shop, I might say, look and tell
me if there's any signage or look and read me
any text if I've got a menu. Um, so a
(18:55):
good example of that. Um, we were, we had a
weekend away in Melbourne at the end of last year, and, um,
we wanted to do a little bit of shopping. And
those listeners from Melbourne might know the Block Arcade in
Collins Street. And so I we went into the Block
Arcade and we were looking for a couple of things.
We were looking for Haig's chocolates, and we were looking
(19:15):
for the Charles Dickens Tavern to go and have some lunch.
And then we were also looking for a, um, a Birkenstocks, um, shop.
And so what I did was I would sort of
come up to a shop window or a door and
I would say, look and tell me what you see.
And it would tell me, the glasses would tell me
what you know, what was on display, perhaps, or, um,
(19:40):
you know, so or it might say, I see a
what looks like a cafe with lots of tables and
chairs and you think, okay, well, that could be the tavern.
So then I would say, look and tell me if
there's any signage and it might say, oh, you know,
I see a sign that says. And it may or
may not be the business that I'm looking for. So
that sort of stuff is really helpful. Um, because it
means that, um, I can sometimes give Jenna more meaningful directions.
(20:06):
If I can tap into some of the visual cues, um,
that might be there, you know, and I can know. Okay,
do we want to go into this shop or is
it not the one that I want? So, for example,
when I was looking for the Birkenstock's shop, I stood
in front of the shop window and I said, look
and tell me what you see. And it said, I see, um,
a shop window with with shoes and boots on display.
(20:26):
And I said, um, look and tell me if there's
any signage. And there was, but it wasn't the shop
that I wanted. So it meant I didn't have to
go into that one. I thought, okay, I've had a
look on my GPS and I'll talk about that in
a second. Um, I know it's in this block somewhere,
so we'll just go a couple of shops further down
and repeat the process. And then I found it said,
you know, I see a shop with, um, leather sandals
(20:48):
in the window. And I said, you look and see
if there's any signage. And it said, I see a
sign that says Birkenstock. So I was able to to
find the shop that I wanted. So that one's definitely, um,
a bit of a game changer, I think. Um, and
just sometimes being able to, um, get descriptions of things,
you know, looking at if you're standing at a table
(21:10):
and you're not sure if it's occupied or not, you know,
look and tell me if there are any people at
this table, that kind of thing. Um, and you can
also use it in conjunction with services like Be My
Eyes or IRA to get hands free assistance. So you
can be put through to if it's be my eyes,
a volunteer or if it's IRA, one of their agents.
(21:30):
And you can make a video call through the glasses
and they can essentially see what you're looking at and
give you directions that way. So that's pretty handy as well,
because it's hands free. Um, probably the other thing that
I use a lot with Jenna is my stellar Trek GPS. Um,
there are a couple of things, even on familiar routes. Um,
I used it a bit with within training just so
(21:53):
that I could start to cue Jenna, you know, to
find a crossing or those kinds of things. It just
gave me a little bit more information about what was around. Uh,
so I found that that actually worked really well. Um,
and also things that were maybe a little bit difficult
to find initially. Um, you know, I put it, marked it,
put a few more landmarks in the device so that
(22:14):
I could, um, uh, find them easily and give her the,
the reassurance and the confidence to sort of find it
first time. So I found that.
S1 (22:21):
Type of, um, landmarks out of curiosity.
S2 (22:23):
Ah, so things sometimes an entrance to a business that
was maybe a little bit hard to identify. Um, you know,
a particular crossing where you, you know, it's maybe halfway
down a street. So, uh, crossing the road in front
of my house, there's not really any landmarks, you know? Um,
so I marked that so that when I came up
(22:44):
to it, I would hear an alert on the GPS,
and I could start to tell Jenna to to find. Right,
and find the crossing sort of thing. Um, so things
like that, where you might be crossing a road and
not at a corner. So it's not, you know, it's
not obvious. Um, those, those kinds of things, um, I
found really helpful. But also with that, it means that
I can use things like the map browsing mode, and
(23:08):
I can, um, have a look at a map and
I can, I can have a look at. Okay. So
to get from here to here, I'm going to need
to cross three roads. And then at the third one
I'm going to need to turn left on the up
curve and that kind of thing. So having being able
to look at that ahead of time again, it means
that I can be more confident in the directions that
I'm giving Jenna. And so that makes her job easier.
(23:31):
And also, um, you know, means that she doesn't lose confidence. Uh,
so I can be a little bit more sure about
where we're going and what we're doing. Um, and you normally,
then you've got a better chance of getting it right
the first or second time. So, um, you know, and
I think particularly with a new dog, that's actually really important. Um,
so using some of those tools in conjunction with, um,
(23:53):
with my dog just makes a difference to how smoothly
you travel. Uh, it makes a difference for me in
terms of how willing I am to wander around somewhere unfamiliar.
You know, I'm from Brisbane and I'm wandering around the
centre of Melbourne, for example. Um, and therefore, you know,
it means that Marion and I can go off exploring
new places, have a weekend away in Melbourne and actually enjoy,
you know, zipping around and shopping and, you know, seeing
(24:16):
the various sights and trying the various restaurants and things.
S1 (24:20):
I mean, it's amazing, especially like it makes me think of, um,
you know, a spy film or like a spy TV
series from the 90s where everyone's got, you know, it's like,
you know, your shoe is in your phone and you're,
you've got these high tech glasses. It's quite cool, isn't it?
And quite I think the thing that is, I don't know,
I think is quite cool about it is like it's
quite discreet and easy. It doesn't sounds to me like
(24:43):
something that, um, you know, you can really use with
kind of total confidence. It's not like some, you know, massive, bulky,
you know, you don't have to bring out a always and,
you know, try to, um, you know.
S2 (24:57):
And that's the thing, you know, some of the, the, um,
those types of devices that have gone before kind of
make you look like an alien with a.
S1 (25:04):
With a.
S2 (25:05):
Camera sticking out the side of your head. Um, the
other thing about those glasses, too, is that they are
a consumer, a consumer item. They're an everyday piece of tech,
you know that that, um, works for someone with a
vision impairment. You know, they that wasn't what they were
designed for. They were designed for people to post to
their Instagram or their Facebook feed and things like that.
(25:27):
But it just sort of happens that they're actually something
that we can use. But the nice thing is that
you can get them at any sort of standard sunglass
or eyewear type store, um, you know, and, and that they'll,
they'll work quite well out of the box with your
iPhone or your, your Android phone. So it's nice to
have a sort of a mainstream off the shelf piece
(25:49):
of tech that actually works and is a real enabler
for us in terms of navigating the environment.
S1 (25:56):
And can you claim that on NDIS as well?
S2 (26:00):
Not really. Um, well, okay. I would say you could,
but you would do so at your own risk because
they are an everyday item in the same way that
a phone is an everyday item or that type of thing.
And so it's one of those things you could try
and you might get away with it, but you might
not because it technically doesn't meet the guidelines. Um, so
(26:24):
my my advice to people is don't I didn't. Um,
but you know, I can I know there'll be people
who'll who'll jump on me and say, oh, but I did,
and I, you know. So look, if you want to
risk it by all means. But the reading, the Ndia guidelines,
my advice would be that they don't meet the guidelines
and that I would generally not recommend that, that you try, uh,
(26:48):
and if you do, you do so at your own risk.
S1 (26:50):
Out of curiosity, do you have a ballpark of how
much those would cost?
S2 (26:54):
They're about $450.
S1 (26:57):
That's not too bad for something that can enable so much.
S2 (27:00):
Absolutely. When you think that most of the other blindness
specific wearables come in at 4 or $5000.
S1 (27:07):
Yeah, that's what I was wondering if it would be.
S2 (27:09):
Yeah. No. Um, and that's and that's the thing, you know,
that that's the the advantage of it being mainstream tech
is that the price comes down because obviously they can
sell them by the million rather than by the thousand. Um,
but the disadvantage is that the you know, they though
a lot of those things are regarded by the agency
(27:29):
as a non-disability specific item, an everyday item, and therefore
they're not covered, but the fact that they are of
a much more reasonable price tag means that, you know,
most people could probably save up and, and still, you know,
get themselves one.
S1 (27:50):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Damien McMorrow, seeing Eye Dogs, Handler and Vision Australia's National
Access Technology manager. For part two of my interview with Damo, Demo.
Don't forget to tune in same time next week for
another episode of the show, or head to your preferred
podcast provider. If you'd like to find out about seeing
(28:12):
the work you do or how you can help. You
can head to our website at australia.com. If you'd like
help with your access technology. The Access Technology Help desk
at Vision Australia is available weekdays and business hours, and
a little bit later you can call the At help
desk at one 384 7466. That number again is one
(28:36):
384 7466. And ask for the Access Technology Help desk.
Or you can email them at at at Vision Australia. Org.
That is again at help at Vision Australia. Thank you
for listening. And don't forget to tune in. Same time
next week for another episode of the show. Have a
(28:57):
lovely week.
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