September 29, 2025 • 38 mins
Dr. Jeremy Bowden returns to discuss free marriage preparation resources available through the Utah Marriage Commission and Utah State University, including his newly created "Marriage Ready" and "Remarriage Ready" online courses.
• Premarital education helps couples understand relationship science, navigate potential challenges, and discuss expectations
• Free six-hour online courses fulfill Utah's requirement for a $20 marriage license discount
• Courses cover commitment, communication, conflict resolution, healthy sexuality, money management, and abuse prevention
• StrongerMarriage.org offers additional free resources including the Relate assessment, Ready assessment, and over 100 free e-courses
• Remarriage Ready addresses unique challenges like healing from emotional wounds and navigating step-parenting
• Happy marriages aren't void of conflict but feature consistent repair and abundant positive connections
• Dr. Bowden offers personalized premarital counseling through his "Before We Say I Do" program
Visit StrongerMarriage.org, HealthyRelationshipsUtah.org, or CenterForMarriagePrep.com to access these resources and strengthen your relationship.
Visit our site for FREE relationship resources and regular giveaways:
Strongermarriage.org
Podcast.stongermarriage.org
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StrongerMarriageLife
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Facebook Marriage Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/770019130329579
Dr. Dave Schramm:
Dr. Liz Hale:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On today's episode, dr Liz and I are thrilled to
welcome back Dr Jeremy Bowden.
We're diving into the many freeresources the Utah Marriage
Commission and Utah StateUniversity offers to Utahns.
We'll talk about the brand newMarriage Ready and Re-Marriage
Ready online courses written byDr Bowden himself, and explore
why premarital education is soimportant.
(00:25):
Plus, we'll share the benefitsof reaching out for help to
strengthen your own marriage andsupport the marriages around
you.
Dr Jeremy Bowden is a professorof family science at Utah
Valley University.
He teaches courses in marriageand relationships, human
sexuality, family dynamics andcouples therapy in the Marriage
and Family Therapy program.
Jeremy is a licensed marriageand family therapist and
(00:46):
maintains a small privatepractice in Provo, utah, where
he specializes in couples anddiscernment counseling.
He's also the owner anddirector of the Center for
Marriage Preparation, whichhelps couples get ready for
marriage through his Before weSay I Do program.
You can check out his websiteat centerformarriageprepcom.
We hope you enjoy the show.
(01:06):
All right, online resources ande-courses have exploded in the
last decade, but how do you knowwhat is reliable and helpful
these days?
Well, here to discuss some newresearch-backed resources for
engaged and married couples andbacked by popular demand, is Dr
(01:29):
Jeremy Bowden, a professor ofmarriage and family therapist at
Utah Valley University.
Welcome back to the show,jeremy.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I appreciate you having me back on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, always grateful for your time, your wisdom,
your expertise.
Jeremy, you were on the showback in I had to look it up 2022
, talking about navigating thenewlywed years, and that episode
has done really well.
By the way, and for ourlisteners who don't know, in
addition to being just anawesome professor at Utah Valley
University, Dr Bowden also hasa private practice where he
(02:03):
helps engaged couples, amongothers, prepare for marriage and
helps those navigating theearly years of marriage through
those challenges.
But before we dive into theresources you helped create,
tell us a little bit, Jeremy,about why the focus on engaged
couples.
Isn't that, at times, supposedto be filled with love and
romance and roses?
(02:23):
They're like we don't need anyhelp, man.
We are so in love, we're readyto get married.
Just let us get married.
And then you're like, oh no,I'm here to take some courses.
And they're like wait, what?
Why would I need this?
Why do couples need this?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, that is a great question, dave.
I have found, you know, I'veworked with a lot of premarital
couples and I have found that alot of them they do, like you
said, they kind of go in withthis, you know, this
anticipation of what it's goingto be like and and, yeah, and a
(02:57):
lot of, a lot of the ways theirexpectations are met, but
there's many ways that they'renot, and so I have found that
premarital education can bereally helpful for them to
understand the science ofrelationships and marriage, help
them to navigate beforehand,but also navigate potential
(03:18):
challenges for them, and alsoit's a great place for them to
discuss their expectations.
That's what I have found with alot of the couples premarital
couples that I've worked with.
They'll often say I don't knowhow couples get married without
learning all these things,because we have learned so much
about ourselves, about ourrelationship and just really
(03:41):
kind of this, like they said,the science of marriage and what
it's like, and so it's just areally great place for them to
be open about their expectationsand to find ways to learn
skills, important skills, skillsthat research has found to be
helpful for them.
So that's one of the benefitsthat I've found and the couples
(04:05):
that I've worked with have foundalso.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You know, I think it's so interesting, jeremy and
Dave, is that there's stilleither a little bit of a stigma
or young couples just haven'theard about pre-marriage therapy
.
Recently, ben and I are prettyclose to a young man in our
church and he's engaged, gettingmarried in December, and I said
, hey, you know, what have youthought about doing some
pre-marriage therapy?
I mean, ben, he didn't evenhave a choice, right, we did
(04:30):
this and that, and I kind ofwent down the rundown he goes
really.
And he kind of took some notesand asked for the website.
So I sent himstrongermarriageorg, of course,
but when he talked to his fianceabout this she said, well, why
would we do that?
Like, what's wrong, what's wrongwith us?
Why do you think we need that?
She was, you know, really kindof upset and a little bit of a
(04:51):
little threatened and it's like,oh darn.
You know, I hope that, ifnothing else, from today comes
this opportunity of a very openminded need for gosh, why not
get started off on the rightfoot?
We know so much about whatthere is to have a marriage
thrive, wouldn't we want to knowthat?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was just thinking, liz, it's so true.
I'm thinking, if I've neverbeen to the Grand Canyon or
something, I'm trying to thinkof an analogy and I'm just like,
no, this is going to be fun,this is going to be adventure,
wouldn't?
I want to read up about it andprepare for it and just like, no
, you know, this is going to befun, this is going to be
adventure.
When I want to read up about itand prepare for it and be like,
oh OK, I didn't know that Ineeded to take this.
This is, this is good to know.
So, man, I just see it is againfor me, on this side of it,
(05:35):
saying wow, how you don't knowwhat you don't know until you
start listening, learning theseexpectations, these
conversations, expectations,these conversations that couples
just won't have unless they areguided and kind of shown and
opened up and said, oh okay, no,here's the grand king, you
actually need this and this andthis is very important to have
these things.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Some tools, some equipment, yeah, that's right In
case you get lost or stuckRight.
And it's not if, but when.
That's right, yeah, well,perhaps you can.
Oh, please go ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, I just want to add I appreciate what you said,
liz, around the stigma, becauseI think when people hear the
word counseling or therapy theythink, well, that's for people
who have problems in theirrelationship and that is with
premarital education andcounseling.
That's really not the truth,because a lot of, the vast
(06:27):
majority of the content is justeducational, just preventative
information for them, like yousaid, learning the skills and
understanding some of the youknow.
We know so much, as you said,we know so much about marriage,
and so I think that there isthat stigma that, oh, we don't
need to do that because we'reokay, but it's.
(06:47):
That's not really.
It's not about repairingnecessarily their relationships,
but it's repairing or preparingtheir relationship for what's
going to come.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, prepare for the repair right, because there
will be that need for repairingtime and time again.
At least that's how it is in mymarriage.
Well, please set the stage forus for today.
Jeremy, you serve on the UtahMarriage Commission very near
and dear to both our hearts,dave and I, and you've created
all kinds of helpful resourcesfor your private practice.
So the commission tapped intoyou recently to create a
(07:23):
marriage prep course forStrongerMarriageorg.
Thank you for that.
Before we talk about the course, can you share a bit about
Utah's marriage educationdiscount for couples and how
that ties into the course youcreated as well?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, it's a great resource for couples and the
great thing about it is thatit's free.
It's free for couples, and thegreat thing about it is that
it's free.
It's free for couples, and partof this is, if they go through
the course and complete it, theywill get a $20 discount on
their marriage license.
Part of this.
There's other ways to get that,but really Utah requires six
(07:58):
hours of approved relationshipeducation or three hours of
premarital counseling or therapy, things like that and some of
what Utah Marriage Commissionhas put together.
They really looked at theresearch and found, you know,
what is going to be some of themost important topics and so
included in this course thatwe're talking about today is
(08:22):
commitment in marriage,effective communication,
problem-solving skills, avoidingviolence and abuse in
relationships, and so thoseparts, those components, have to
be part of any relationshipeducation or premarital
education in order for them toget that $20 discount.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
That is very cool.
And do you have to be in utah?
Is it for utah couples only?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
for the discount.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yes, uh, for the discount but any free to anybody
, wherever they are yeah, yeah,in fact, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
For our listeners in other states, we're hoping you
to really share this and getthis information out there so
they can also, uh, takeadvantage and they can sign up
and take this course.
There is a charge for thoseoutside of Utah, but for Utahns
the course is free.
But I might add, though, liz,that for all of our listeners
worldwide,thestrongermarriageorg it really
(09:18):
is this world-class resource wejust finished up these past 18
months resource.
We just finished up these past18 months.
We've been busy it's crazy busywith our team and instructional
designers and experts thatwe've actually hired script
writers across the country,scholars, researchers,
therapists to develop all kindsof courses.
Many of these are these15-minute short e-courses online
(09:41):
.
These are available, again forfree for everyone online at
StrongerMarriageorg.
We've created this series,actually called this Ready
series, so it's dating ready,step family ready, marriage
ready that Dr Bowden created forus, remarriage ready, which he
also created.
So that's where you'll find, ofcourse, the podcasts and
(10:01):
webinars and these e-courses,but all kinds of free resources
to help couples in theirrelationship and their marriage
journey.
So, yeah, so that's what wetasked Dr Bowden to develop this
six-hour online.
Now it's not just like right,this big old six sit there and
(10:22):
hit play and then you watch forsix hours.
I think all of us would die sixhours straight, but it has.
It's a little.
It's chunked up into shortersegments, but it does.
It fulfills the requirement inutah to get that $20.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message and we're back.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Let's dive right in what are some of the other key
topics?
Jeremy, that marriage readycovers yeah, a good question.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's a one of the things that we want to look at
is, again, what is the?
What does the research reallysay?
What does does the literaturesay about what's going to be
most important for these couples?
And so we're looking at what weyou know, like Dave said, this
idea of getting ready, and sothere's ready for a healthy me
(11:21):
which gets into understandingour own mental and emotional
well-being, ready for a greaterconnection and better
communication, getting ready toturn conflict into connection
and ready to manage conflict andunderstand abuse.
There's also some modules andcontent on getting ready for a
(11:42):
healthy sexual relationship andmanaging money and then really
helping them understand whatcommitment means in marriage and
so ready for the long run andhow they can implement some
tools into their relationshiparound that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, so I mean just critical, critical topics, right
, Liz?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I don't think you missed anything.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, it really is very comprehensive.
Jeremy, walk us through alittle bit about the structure,
kind of how you developed this,kind of broke it up, like I
talked about earlier, becauseit's not this you know, hit,
play and watch for six hours.
Tell us a little bit about,yeah, the thought process, going
behind and chunking it up,making it, I don't know,
interesting, interactive as welland chunking it up, making it I
(12:31):
don't know interestinginteractive as well.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I teach some onlinecourses at Utah Valley
University and we know that youcan't just put up a six-hour
video and expect people just towatch it straight through.
So, yeah, there are videos thatcouples will watch and they'll
gain some important insightsabout marriage.
I think the instructionaldesigners did a great job to
(12:54):
turn the script that I wroteinto some really terrific videos
that include animation andgraphics and things like that.
So it's not just this talkinghead that is up there for six
hours, but we've also integratedsome interactive parts into the
course, where couples have anopportunity to review some of
(13:15):
the things that they've learnedand also pause the videos and
discuss some of their thoughtsand insights and, like I was
saying before, gives them anopportunity to explore some of
their expectations based on someof the questions that are posed
in the videos.
And so the thing that I reallylike about this is it goes
(13:36):
beyond just simple, you knowadvice, kind of social media
advice that you might get off ofsocial media.
It goes much deeper around that.
I mean it goes much deeperaround that and they're going to
get some of the best and mostup to date research on what
really, what makes marriage workand how to best prepare for
(13:57):
marriage.
And so we're going to we lookedat some of the best theories
and models and frameworks aroundmarriage that we know and, look
you know, like you said earlierkind of tapped into some of the
leading experts in the fieldtoday and created content for
them that's both accessible butalso, more importantly, that it
(14:17):
is applicable and that they canapply these theories, these
concepts, these principles totheir relationship immediately.
And so we put a lot of work intothis course and I think that
couples will also get you know.
A big part of this is how towork as a team to prepare for
their marriage and how to make agreat marriage by being.
(14:40):
A big part of this is beingintentional about the success of
their relationship, which, ifthey're taking the course,
they're already beingintentional, which is a great
template for them, a great wayto start their marriage is
because they're beingintentional by doing this,
because we know not all couplesin Utah are going to be going
through this.
We wish they would, but theyare being intentional, which
(15:04):
hopefully will set the pace, thetone for them throughout their
marriages, to be proactive, tobe a team member in their
marriage and to be intentional.
So that's a big part of that,of course.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
It's such a boost of confidence to have all this.
I mean I like to call thisgreat labor of love the labor of
love, sweat and tears.
You know I mean bless you.
What a gift.
What a gift, dr Bowen.
I'm just so impressed.
You know I mean.
Bless you.
What a gift.
What a gift, dr Bowen.
I'm just so impressed.
You know, according to theresearch, what are the benefits
of premarital education, whoit's for and why should our
(15:37):
viewers, listeners, watch oreven trust this?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's an important question, liz,
because, yeah, who is this?
What do we need to know?
Should they?
Is this?
What do we need to know?
Should they trust this?
And, to answer your questiondirectly, is the research is
pretty clear that if coupleswill invest time before marriage
exploring their expectations,learning and applying
communication and conflictresolution skills and
(16:04):
understanding some of thescience behind what makes
marriage work, they are morelikely to stay together, they're
more likely to stay committed,to work through issues and to be
happily married.
And so, yeah, the data is outthere.
It's pretty clear that ifcouples will do this, they
increase their chances of havinga better marriage.
(16:24):
A better marriage.
And so which is why I thinkUtah has put so much resource
and time and energy into thisbecause they're they're
following what the data says,what the research says, that,
yeah, this is going to behelpful for couples.
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it really is, jeremy.
Let me mention a few of theother resources.
Kind of plug them now for ourlisteners as they go to
strongermarriageorg.
Again, I mentioned the 100 plusof these free e-courses.
We also have a relationshipassessment called Relate.
This Relate assessment has beenaround 30, 40 years, jeremy,
(17:00):
developed by scholars and thosein again in Utah.
You can take this for freeinstead of having to pay for
this.
So take this related assessment, what it does.
It asks all kinds of questions.
It actually takes some time todo this because it asks
questions in 10 different areasAgain, from how you were raised
to sexuality, to communicationpattern, money, all of those
(17:24):
types of really important topics, and so what couples will do is
they'll each take it separately, answer the questions and then
relate, yeah, piles all thisdata, puts it together and says,
hey, here's some areas notnecessarily problem areas, but
here's some areas that you mayhave answered a little bit
differently, that you may wantto talk about, to discuss, and I
(17:45):
would actually plug going to atherapist, a counselor, maybe,
with their relationshipassessment, and here's some
things that we took this.
Can you kind of guide us throughthis so that relate assessment,
both for those couples who areengaged, ready to marry, as well
, as I took it many years agoafter I was married, because it
still can give insights, helpfulI guess, just kind of
(18:10):
discussion starters of thingsthat we should.
We could talk about theseexpectations, differences in how
we were, we were raised, so allkinds of wonderful resources on
there.
There's what's called anotherassessment, called a ready
assessment.
If you're just dating andthinking about, am I ready for a
serious relationship, am Iready to get married?
So there's that assessment aswell.
And then I also wanted to plugthe free courses again in Utah.
(18:33):
You can find these athealthyrelationshipsutahorg.
So we have strongermarriageorgwith the Utah Marriage
Commission and then Utah Statehas its own resources that we
provide with USU Extension atHealthy Relationships Utah, all
one word.
We'll put those links in theshow notes.
But we provide classes, yeah,from St George to Logan classes
(18:55):
on happiness and positivity, onparenting, dating, remarriage,
stepfamilies, all kinds oftopics, absolutely free.
So, jeremy, you're familiarwith the.
I'm going back to the Relateassessment.
Do you have you used that or doyou know of couples have used
that, or when they talk with youabout it?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, no, I have absolutely, and I've recommended
couples because it's verypersonalized to their
relationship and so it can showthem the strengths in their
relationship.
It can also highlight somepotential challenges and growth
areas for them and it'sself-interpretative in that they
can take it and get the resultsback immediately and go through
(19:38):
it together, and I love that.
You said you know there may besome things that come up where
they go.
Oh, we, you know, we may wantto reach out to a third party
and kind of explore some ofthese things.
So I've had couples reach outto me and say, hey, we got our
results from this relatesassessment and we'd love to talk
to you about some of them.
Yeah, absolutely, so I'mfamiliar with it.
I've had couples take it and Ilove that the state offers this
(20:02):
for free.
It's a great resource and yeah,so I'm so glad that we're
talking about it here.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
That's the one that my husband, ben and I took
because we got married just 12years ago.
So Relate was, you know, frontand center out of BYU, correct?
Because I remember going downsitting down with Dr Jeff Larson
, I think, is his name.
Does that sound familiar?
I think he was instrumental inthe Relate, so we found it super
helpful.
Gosh, I'd like to get my handson that now.
(20:31):
I'm going to go do some digging.
You've made me so curious aboutwhat that said.
You know.
Now, 12 years later, my memoryis a little foggy, but what a
great beginning.
I will always be grateful tothat and to Jeff Larson, you
know so, jeremy, in addition tothe Marriage Ready online
courses you created, you're alsotasked with creating a
(20:52):
re-Marriage Ready online course.
Tell us about that course.
I'm sure it has similaritiesand differences to Marriage
Ready.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, no, I'm glad that you asked about that
because it's something I've beenworking on over the last year
and I was so excited and honoredand even humbled that they
asked me to come back and towork on this.
Because, you know, there's alsoa personal and also
professional perspective that Ihave on this Because I am
(21:22):
remarried.
My wife and I were previouslymarried to other spouses and so
we've now been married, comingup on 15 years, and we're a
remarried couple that formed astep family, and so I've learned
a few things and understand andcan have some empathy to the
challenges that remarriage canbring.
(21:44):
And then also from aprofessional perspective, I also
work with and have worked withmany remarried couples as well
as couples who are preparing forremarriage and want to make
sure that they do it right, andso that's a little bit of my
background.
I've taught courses in thecommunity around remarriage.
(22:08):
I obviously teach at UVU aboutremarriage and understanding the
dynamics from that, and so fromthat professional perspective,
I was able to bring some of thatas well.
So with that background, whenthey asked me to do this, I
really wanted to get back intothe literature, the research and
(22:30):
understand what are theprofessionals out there, what
are they teaching, what are theywriting about, what are they
studying?
And because I wanted to get areally good grasp on what makes
remarriage successful, becausewe know from their heart,
remarriages have a higherdivorce rate than first-time
marriages and so we wanted tosee, well, how can Utah be
(22:54):
helpful to these couples and tryto decrease some of those
divorce rates.
And so I think this course andthe course on also step
parenting that Utah has will bevery valuable to any couple.
And kind of to go and answersome of your other questions,
what I like about this course iswe tried to integrate much of
(23:16):
the same content that was inMarriage Ready, because a lot of
the same principles andtheories and research is going
to apply to that.
But we also include parts ofremarriage that are very unique,
things like healing from oldemotional wounds.
You know previous relationshipnavigating step, parenting and
(23:37):
how areas such as sexualintimacy, finances,
communication, conflictresolution they've got some
nuances to it that a lot offirst-time married couples don't
have to bump up against,whereas remarried couples
they're bumping up against someof these unique challenges to
those areas, and so we tried toaddress those as well in this
(24:00):
course, and so what we havefound in the literature is that
many of the issues thatremarried couples face are
preventable.
I mean, a lot of scholars havetalked about that that if
remarried couples will do someeducation and some preventative
work a lot of these issues andchallenges that increase the
divorce rate, we can decrease itand help them to be more
(24:24):
intentional, more proactive intheir approach to preparing
better.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Sweet, sweet, wow.
And who better to lead the wayon remarriage ready than someone
like you, dr Jeremy Bowden?
You know, and you, front andcenter, live to tell about it
and I just am so grateful foryou.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
We'll be right back after this brief message, and
we're back, let's dive right in.
Jeremy, I'm curious, let mepick your brain for a second, if
you're uh, just maybe from yourexperiences, uh, as a therapist
(25:06):
, are remarried couples any more, um, open?
Maybe is the word to you know,remarriage preparation, or or is
there still some hesitancy?
Do you have a?
Do you get a sense?
You know what I'm saying?
As far as, like man, that wasreally challenging and I think
we could use some, some help, orgoing to a counselor or more or
(25:28):
less open about the same, orjust kind of very it kind of
varies, I would say.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
when they're in my office, when I've worked with
them one-on-one, they are readyto soak it.
In First-time married premaritalcouples they're a little
hesitant just because they don'tknow exactly what to expect.
But I think with remarriedcouples they tend to be a little
(25:56):
bit in my experience a littlebit more proactive.
They're more likely to do someof the work because they know.
Now they know what they didn'tknow and so they are going to
jump into it.
But the research shows that weneed to do a better job in
getting the word out that thereare resources like this
(26:17):
available, because a lot of themwill get caught up in that
dopamine drench of a newrelationship and that this
relationship is going to bedifferent and better than my
first marriage, and they getcaught up in that love cocktail
and kind of fall prey to some ofthe same thinking that
first-time married couples do.
And so it's definitely.
(26:38):
I would say it's probably evenmore important for remarried
couples to do some premaritaleducation than it would be for
first-time.
I mean, both are really, reallyimportant.
But I have found that theremarried couples I've worked
with they have just been sograteful for the things that
they wish they would have knownin their first marriage.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, interesting.
Well, jeremy, as we wrap up ourtime together, you kind of know
the drill.
You've been on the podcast.
We'd love to ask all of ourguests a couple of questions, so
I'm going to ask you again,even though you're on.
Yeah, a few years ago, what doyou feel like is the key to a
stronger marriage connection?
Or a key?
I don't know if there is thekey, but, yeah, what's an
(27:21):
important key to a strongermarriage connection?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Yeah, I wonder how I answered it back in the other
one, I'd have to go back andlisten to it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I don't know if it's changed in the last 30 years.
I know for the last few yearsone of the things because it's
such a great question andsomething that I often talk
about with my I have found is alot of couples believe that a
happy relationship has to bevoid of disconnections in order
(28:04):
for it to be happy or strong,that has to be void of conflict
and things like that.
But when we look at theresearch and even in my work
with couples, I have found thathappy marriages don't emerge
from a lack of conflict or alack of disconnections, but the
(28:24):
presence of consistent repairfrom those disconnections and
lots of positive connections.
I know we've used the wordconnections quite a bit in this,
but that is really if you kindof boil down I will say this to
my students a lot if you boildown all the research and what
it really finds is that it's notthat lack of conflict that
(28:48):
these master marriages, but it'sthe presence of consistent
repair and then supplementedwith lots and lots of positive
connections.
And so, in other words, happycouples struggle at times.
Happy couples have conflicts,they hurt each other's feelings,
they let each other down, butthese same couples that are
happy they're happy because theyrepair quickly and then they
(29:12):
have lots of positiveconnections throughout the day,
the week and throughout theyears that they're married and
these add up over time.
And this is my friend that I'mreally frustrated with.
This is my partner that justlet me down.
But I know that we love eachother, we care about each other
because we've had so manypositive connections and so it's
(29:33):
that ratio that helps them pushthrough some of those tough
moments.
But it's really about repair andbuilding in intentionally
building in lots of positiveconnections.
So in my work with couples theydon't come in and I don't
become this super problem solver.
I don't.
In my classes I don't teachabout how to solve each and
(29:56):
every problem.
What we do is really weidentify some of the cycles that
get in, that they get into,that create these disconnections
.
Then I help them to buildunderstanding and empathy and
compassion for each other'shurts and then express that
compassion to each other.
And then we talk about how canwe integrate lots of positive
connections into their marriage.
(30:16):
How can we repair?
Because it's really that's whatit comes down to.
It's the repair and theabundance of positive
connections that make strongmarriage connections.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Man well said, my friend Well said.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And you're so right.
Connection is really a key part, right?
I'm so glad it's part of ourpodcast name Stronger Marriage
Connection.
When we first were gettingtogether, dave and I and a few
other team members, and decidingthe name of this podcast, I
thought Stronger MarriageConnection was a mouthful.
Remember, dave have youforgiven me, dave I questioned
whether we should really need aconnection on it because I was
(30:53):
so such a fan of StrongerMarriage right, and that I'd
been a voice forStrongerMarriageorg and it was
very near and dear to me.
But it was the right thing todo.
You're right, jeremy, and youwere so right, dave.
You know, in addition to thesewonderful resources that are
safely created onStrongerMarriageorg, you offer
other resources and counselingservices as well.
(31:15):
Where can listeners go to findout more about you and what you
offer, jeremy?
And we'll tuck it away or nottuck it away.
We'll place it on our notes.
Following this podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, and thanks for asking that, liz I have my own
private practice.
I mean, I am a full-timefaculty at UVU so I'm quite busy
with that, but I have a privatepractice here in Provo.
In fact, that's where I'mrecording this.
And so, beyond the MarriageReady online course I've created
and the Remarriage Ready, Ialso created a personalized, a
(31:51):
little bit more intensivepremarital program called Before
we Say I Do, and this is forpremarital couples who are
interested in going into theirpreparation with a bit more
focus on their individualcircumstances, like I said, a
little bit more personalized.
And so the program includes aworkbook that I've written.
It includes videos and in theworkbook I have over you know,
(32:15):
in the workbook I have over 750discussion questions for them on
over 40 topics and stuff and ithas videos in it.
And then they meet with me forabout eight sessions or a
relationship educator, becauseI'm starting to train other
people in this.
I'm training some therapists,I'm training some relationship
educators, and if they want tolearn more about that, they can
(32:38):
go towwwcenterformarriageprepcom.
That's where they can get moreinformation on this.
Before we Say I Do program thatI just talked about there.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
My goodness, that's a wealth of information.
Centerformarriageprepcom.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I love it.
Yeah, again, our listeners, wewill add those to our show notes
.
Lots of links that we'rethrowing at you and resources,
but let me also plug Dr Bowden'sresources.
They're just world-class,top-notch, and we really don't
view these as a competition,it's more complimentary.
We say, man, yeah, go take hisstuff, and I believe your stuff
(33:22):
right counts for the six-houryou know the discount or get
therapy for three hours ofcounseling.
So our whole mission, reallywith the podcast, with the Utah
Marriage Commission, is to getgood information, research-based
information, out to couples, topeople who need it to help them
.
So, yeah, we are happy to shareany and all resources that we
(33:44):
feel are strong, research-basedand absolutely we put our stamp
on Dr Bowden's, all of his stuff.
So, yeah, great thing.
So go check those out.
Hey, jeremy, before we wrap up,we'd like to share and conclude
with a takeaway of the day.
Is there a take home messageyou hope our listeners will
remember from our discussion?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
today, a consistently great marriage and stronger
connection is very much possible, like most things.
But you know, like most thingsin life, it takes that
intentional, proactive andconsistent work.
Really preparing for marriageis one of the best ways to do
that, and so that would be mytakeaway that I hope people will
(34:32):
get, that they'll kind of gainthat conviction that, yes, that
is possible to have a greatmarriage and a strong connection
, but it is going to take somework beforehand and throughout
the relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
So yeah, yes, it does .
Yeah, Well said Liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Well, I love that.
I started this interview todayfeeling the same way, Jeremy,
about repair, repair, repair,right.
It happens again and againthroughout the course of our
marriages and it doesn't meansomething's wrong.
It's what's right with thatright, what's right with being
able to repair again.
And I'm just so impressedknowing much more now after our
(35:07):
interview with you, that HealthyRelationships, utahorg,
strongermarriageorg, of course,and wwwcenterformarriageprepcom
those are three strong resources.
I'm going to print those outand hand them out in my private
practice.
So thank you for that, Dave.
What about you?
What's the richest nugget youhope that we're all going to
(35:28):
remember from our time todaywith Dr Jeremy Bowden?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, thanks, liz.
Jeremy, I want to come fullcircle almost to how I started.
There are, you know, just tonsand tons.
You go to chat, gpt hey, whatdo I need to do to prepare for
marriage?
You get all kinds ofinformation, but we hope that
you will go to theresearch-based information, that
the trusted that is tried andtrue, developed from scholars,
therapists, that come togetherto put this out there for you.
(35:54):
So, if you're listening to thisright now and you're not
preparing for marriage, but youknow someone who is, or you're a
parent, and you know someonewho is getting engaged, or you
just say, hey, man, they couldreally use some of those Again,
the webinars and the e-courses,our podcasts.
We hope that you will sharethis information about the
Marriage Ready, the RemarriageReady and all the wonderful
(36:16):
resources that we have here thatthe Utah Marriage Commission
has put together with USUExtension.
Share it with those that youcome in contact with.
Don't keep that a secret.
Get this information out as ourhope so we can help couples to
have a stronger marriageconnection.
So, jeremy, thanks again formaking time to come on.
(36:36):
Thanks for the great work thatyou do, both for the commission,
uh, at Utah Valley universityin your therapy practice, you
are doing a lot of good, myfriend.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Thank you so much, dave and Liz.
I I'm honored to, to be part ofthis and to just uh talk with
the two of you, who are alsoleaders in this great work of
strengthening marriage.
So thank you for your efforts,your knowledge and expertise.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
We'll do it again a third time sometime, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, yeah, let's do that for now.
That's all, my friends.
Thanks for tuning in foranother episode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
And remember it's the small things that create a
stronger marriage connection.
Take good care now.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram,
(37:41):
at StrongerMarriageLife, andFacebook, at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(38:03):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
, rex Polanis and the team atUtah State University, and you,
our audience.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
(38:24):
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
On today's episode, dr Liz and I are thrilled to
welcome back Dr Jeremy Bowden.
We're diving into the many freeresources the Utah Marriage
Commission and Utah StateUniversity offers to Utahns.
We'll talk about the brand newMarriage Ready and Re-Marriage
Ready online courses written byDr Bowden himself, and explore
why premarital education is soimportant.
(00:25):
Plus, we'll share the benefitsof reaching out for help to
strengthen your own marriage andsupport the marriages around
you.
Dr Jeremy Bowden is a professorof family science at Utah
Valley University.
He teaches courses in marriageand relationships, human
sexuality, family dynamics andcouples therapy in the Marriage
and Family Therapy program.
Jeremy is a licensed marriageand family therapist and
(00:46):
maintains a small privatepractice in Provo, utah, where
he specializes in couples anddiscernment counseling.
He's also the owner anddirector of the Center for
Marriage Preparation, whichhelps couples get ready for
marriage through his Before weSay I Do program.
You can check out his websiteat centerformarriageprepcom.
We hope you enjoy the show.
(01:06):
All right, online resources ande-courses have exploded in the
last decade, but how do you knowwhat is reliable and helpful
these days?
Well, here to discuss some newresearch-backed resources for
engaged and married couples andbacked by popular demand, is Dr
(01:29):
Jeremy Bowden, a professor ofmarriage and family therapist at
Utah Valley University.
Welcome back to the show,jeremy.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I appreciate you having me back on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, always grateful for your time, your wisdom,
your expertise.
Jeremy, you were on the showback in I had to look it up 2022
, talking about navigating thenewlywed years, and that episode
has done really well.
By the way, and for ourlisteners who don't know, in
addition to being just anawesome professor at Utah Valley
University, Dr Bowden also hasa private practice where he
(02:03):
helps engaged couples, amongothers, prepare for marriage and
helps those navigating theearly years of marriage through
those challenges.
But before we dive into theresources you helped create,
tell us a little bit, Jeremy,about why the focus on engaged
couples.
Isn't that, at times, supposedto be filled with love and
romance and roses?
(02:23):
They're like we don't need anyhelp, man.
We are so in love, we're readyto get married.
Just let us get married.
And then you're like, oh no,I'm here to take some courses.
And they're like wait, what?
Why would I need this?
Why do couples need this?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, that is a great question, dave.
I have found, you know, I'veworked with a lot of premarital
couples and I have found that alot of them they do, like you
said, they kind of go in withthis, you know, this
anticipation of what it's goingto be like and and, yeah, and a
(02:57):
lot of, a lot of the ways theirexpectations are met, but
there's many ways that they'renot, and so I have found that
premarital education can bereally helpful for them to
understand the science ofrelationships and marriage, help
them to navigate beforehand,but also navigate potential
(03:18):
challenges for them, and alsoit's a great place for them to
discuss their expectations.
That's what I have found with alot of the couples premarital
couples that I've worked with.
They'll often say I don't knowhow couples get married without
learning all these things,because we have learned so much
about ourselves, about ourrelationship and just really
(03:41):
kind of this, like they said,the science of marriage and what
it's like, and so it's just areally great place for them to
be open about their expectationsand to find ways to learn
skills, important skills, skillsthat research has found to be
helpful for them.
So that's one of the benefitsthat I've found and the couples
(04:05):
that I've worked with have foundalso.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
You know, I think it's so interesting, jeremy and
Dave, is that there's stilleither a little bit of a stigma
or young couples just haven'theard about pre-marriage therapy
.
Recently, ben and I are prettyclose to a young man in our
church and he's engaged, gettingmarried in December, and I said
, hey, you know, what have youthought about doing some
pre-marriage therapy?
I mean, ben, he didn't evenhave a choice, right, we did
(04:30):
this and that, and I kind ofwent down the rundown he goes
really.
And he kind of took some notesand asked for the website.
So I sent himstrongermarriageorg, of course,
but when he talked to his fianceabout this she said, well, why
would we do that?
Like, what's wrong, what's wrongwith us?
Why do you think we need that?
She was, you know, really kindof upset and a little bit of a
(04:51):
little threatened and it's like,oh darn.
You know, I hope that, ifnothing else, from today comes
this opportunity of a very openminded need for gosh, why not
get started off on the rightfoot?
We know so much about whatthere is to have a marriage
thrive, wouldn't we want to knowthat?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was just thinking, liz, it's so true.
I'm thinking, if I've neverbeen to the Grand Canyon or
something, I'm trying to thinkof an analogy and I'm just like,
no, this is going to be fun,this is going to be adventure,
wouldn't?
I want to read up about it andprepare for it and just like, no
, you know, this is going to befun, this is going to be
adventure.
When I want to read up about itand prepare for it and be like,
oh OK, I didn't know that Ineeded to take this.
This is, this is good to know.
So, man, I just see it is againfor me, on this side of it,
(05:35):
saying wow, how you don't knowwhat you don't know until you
start listening, learning theseexpectations, these
conversations, expectations,these conversations that couples
just won't have unless they areguided and kind of shown and
opened up and said, oh okay, no,here's the grand king, you
actually need this and this andthis is very important to have
these things.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Some tools, some equipment, yeah, that's right In
case you get lost or stuckRight.
And it's not if, but when.
That's right, yeah, well,perhaps you can.
Oh, please go ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, I just want to add I appreciate what you said,
liz, around the stigma, becauseI think when people hear the
word counseling or therapy theythink, well, that's for people
who have problems in theirrelationship and that is with
premarital education andcounseling.
That's really not the truth,because a lot of, the vast
(06:27):
majority of the content is justeducational, just preventative
information for them, like yousaid, learning the skills and
understanding some of the youknow.
We know so much, as you said,we know so much about marriage,
and so I think that there isthat stigma that, oh, we don't
need to do that because we'reokay, but it's.
(06:47):
That's not really.
It's not about repairingnecessarily their relationships,
but it's repairing or preparingtheir relationship for what's
going to come.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, prepare for the repair right, because there
will be that need for repairingtime and time again.
At least that's how it is in mymarriage.
Well, please set the stage forus for today.
Jeremy, you serve on the UtahMarriage Commission very near
and dear to both our hearts,dave and I, and you've created
all kinds of helpful resourcesfor your private practice.
So the commission tapped intoyou recently to create a
(07:23):
marriage prep course forStrongerMarriageorg.
Thank you for that.
Before we talk about the course, can you share a bit about
Utah's marriage educationdiscount for couples and how
that ties into the course youcreated as well?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, it's a great resource for couples and the
great thing about it is thatit's free.
It's free for couples, and thegreat thing about it is that
it's free.
It's free for couples, and partof this is, if they go through
the course and complete it, theywill get a $20 discount on
their marriage license.
Part of this.
There's other ways to get that,but really Utah requires six
(07:58):
hours of approved relationshipeducation or three hours of
premarital counseling or therapy, things like that and some of
what Utah Marriage Commissionhas put together.
They really looked at theresearch and found, you know,
what is going to be some of themost important topics and so
included in this course thatwe're talking about today is
(08:22):
commitment in marriage,effective communication,
problem-solving skills, avoidingviolence and abuse in
relationships, and so thoseparts, those components, have to
be part of any relationshipeducation or premarital
education in order for them toget that $20 discount.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
That is very cool.
And do you have to be in utah?
Is it for utah couples only?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
for the discount.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yes, uh, for the discount but any free to anybody
, wherever they are yeah, yeah,in fact, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
For our listeners in other states, we're hoping you
to really share this and getthis information out there so
they can also, uh, takeadvantage and they can sign up
and take this course.
There is a charge for thoseoutside of Utah, but for Utahns
the course is free.
But I might add, though, liz,that for all of our listeners
worldwide,thestrongermarriageorg it really
(09:18):
is this world-class resource wejust finished up these past 18
months resource.
We just finished up these past18 months.
We've been busy it's crazy busywith our team and instructional
designers and experts thatwe've actually hired script
writers across the country,scholars, researchers,
therapists to develop all kindsof courses.
Many of these are these15-minute short e-courses online
(09:41):
.
These are available, again forfree for everyone online at
StrongerMarriageorg.
We've created this series,actually called this Ready
series, so it's dating ready,step family ready, marriage
ready that Dr Bowden created forus, remarriage ready, which he
also created.
So that's where you'll find, ofcourse, the podcasts and
(10:01):
webinars and these e-courses,but all kinds of free resources
to help couples in theirrelationship and their marriage
journey.
So, yeah, so that's what wetasked Dr Bowden to develop this
six-hour online.
Now it's not just like right,this big old six sit there and
(10:22):
hit play and then you watch forsix hours.
I think all of us would die sixhours straight, but it has.
It's a little.
It's chunked up into shortersegments, but it does.
It fulfills the requirement inutah to get that $20.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message and we're back.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Let's dive right in what are some of the other key
topics?
Jeremy, that marriage readycovers yeah, a good question.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's a one of the things that we want to look at
is, again, what is the?
What does the research reallysay?
What does does the literaturesay about what's going to be
most important for these couples?
And so we're looking at what weyou know, like Dave said, this
idea of getting ready, and sothere's ready for a healthy me
(11:21):
which gets into understandingour own mental and emotional
well-being, ready for a greaterconnection and better
communication, getting ready toturn conflict into connection
and ready to manage conflict andunderstand abuse.
There's also some modules andcontent on getting ready for a
(11:42):
healthy sexual relationship andmanaging money and then really
helping them understand whatcommitment means in marriage and
so ready for the long run andhow they can implement some
tools into their relationshiparound that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, so I mean just critical, critical topics, right
, Liz?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I don't think you missed anything.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, it really is very comprehensive.
Jeremy, walk us through alittle bit about the structure,
kind of how you developed this,kind of broke it up, like I
talked about earlier, becauseit's not this you know, hit,
play and watch for six hours.
Tell us a little bit about,yeah, the thought process, going
behind and chunking it up,making it, I don't know,
interesting, interactive as welland chunking it up, making it I
(12:31):
don't know interestinginteractive as well.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I teach some onlinecourses at Utah Valley
University and we know that youcan't just put up a six-hour
video and expect people just towatch it straight through.
So, yeah, there are videos thatcouples will watch and they'll
gain some important insightsabout marriage.
I think the instructionaldesigners did a great job to
(12:54):
turn the script that I wroteinto some really terrific videos
that include animation andgraphics and things like that.
So it's not just this talkinghead that is up there for six
hours, but we've also integratedsome interactive parts into the
course, where couples have anopportunity to review some of
(13:15):
the things that they've learnedand also pause the videos and
discuss some of their thoughtsand insights and, like I was
saying before, gives them anopportunity to explore some of
their expectations based on someof the questions that are posed
in the videos.
And so the thing that I reallylike about this is it goes
(13:36):
beyond just simple, you knowadvice, kind of social media
advice that you might get off ofsocial media.
It goes much deeper around that.
I mean it goes much deeperaround that and they're going to
get some of the best and mostup to date research on what
really, what makes marriage workand how to best prepare for
(13:57):
marriage.
And so we're going to we lookedat some of the best theories
and models and frameworks aroundmarriage that we know and, look
you know, like you said earlierkind of tapped into some of the
leading experts in the fieldtoday and created content for
them that's both accessible butalso, more importantly, that it
(14:17):
is applicable and that they canapply these theories, these
concepts, these principles totheir relationship immediately.
And so we put a lot of work intothis course and I think that
couples will also get you know.
A big part of this is how towork as a team to prepare for
their marriage and how to make agreat marriage by being.
(14:40):
A big part of this is beingintentional about the success of
their relationship, which, ifthey're taking the course,
they're already beingintentional, which is a great
template for them, a great wayto start their marriage is
because they're beingintentional by doing this,
because we know not all couplesin Utah are going to be going
through this.
We wish they would, but theyare being intentional, which
(15:04):
hopefully will set the pace, thetone for them throughout their
marriages, to be proactive, tobe a team member in their
marriage and to be intentional.
So that's a big part of that,of course.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
It's such a boost of confidence to have all this.
I mean I like to call thisgreat labor of love the labor of
love, sweat and tears.
You know I mean bless you.
What a gift.
What a gift, dr Bowen.
I'm just so impressed.
You know I mean.
Bless you.
What a gift.
What a gift, dr Bowen.
I'm just so impressed.
You know, according to theresearch, what are the benefits
of premarital education, whoit's for and why should our
(15:37):
viewers, listeners, watch oreven trust this?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's an important question, liz,
because, yeah, who is this?
What do we need to know?
Should they?
Is this?
What do we need to know?
Should they trust this?
And, to answer your questiondirectly, is the research is
pretty clear that if coupleswill invest time before marriage
exploring their expectations,learning and applying
communication and conflictresolution skills and
(16:04):
understanding some of thescience behind what makes
marriage work, they are morelikely to stay together, they're
more likely to stay committed,to work through issues and to be
happily married.
And so, yeah, the data is outthere.
It's pretty clear that ifcouples will do this, they
increase their chances of havinga better marriage.
(16:24):
A better marriage.
And so which is why I thinkUtah has put so much resource
and time and energy into thisbecause they're they're
following what the data says,what the research says, that,
yeah, this is going to behelpful for couples.
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it really is, jeremy.
Let me mention a few of theother resources.
Kind of plug them now for ourlisteners as they go to
strongermarriageorg.
Again, I mentioned the 100 plusof these free e-courses.
We also have a relationshipassessment called Relate.
This Relate assessment has beenaround 30, 40 years, jeremy,
(17:00):
developed by scholars and thosein again in Utah.
You can take this for freeinstead of having to pay for
this.
So take this related assessment, what it does.
It asks all kinds of questions.
It actually takes some time todo this because it asks
questions in 10 different areasAgain, from how you were raised
to sexuality, to communicationpattern, money, all of those
(17:24):
types of really important topics, and so what couples will do is
they'll each take it separately, answer the questions and then
relate, yeah, piles all thisdata, puts it together and says,
hey, here's some areas notnecessarily problem areas, but
here's some areas that you mayhave answered a little bit
differently, that you may wantto talk about, to discuss, and I
(17:45):
would actually plug going to atherapist, a counselor, maybe,
with their relationshipassessment, and here's some
things that we took this.
Can you kind of guide us throughthis so that relate assessment,
both for those couples who areengaged, ready to marry, as well
, as I took it many years agoafter I was married, because it
still can give insights, helpfulI guess, just kind of
(18:10):
discussion starters of thingsthat we should.
We could talk about theseexpectations, differences in how
we were, we were raised, so allkinds of wonderful resources on
there.
There's what's called anotherassessment, called a ready
assessment.
If you're just dating andthinking about, am I ready for a
serious relationship, am Iready to get married?
So there's that assessment aswell.
And then I also wanted to plugthe free courses again in Utah.
(18:33):
You can find these athealthyrelationshipsutahorg.
So we have strongermarriageorgwith the Utah Marriage
Commission and then Utah Statehas its own resources that we
provide with USU Extension atHealthy Relationships Utah, all
one word.
We'll put those links in theshow notes.
But we provide classes, yeah,from St George to Logan classes
(18:55):
on happiness and positivity, onparenting, dating, remarriage,
stepfamilies, all kinds oftopics, absolutely free.
So, jeremy, you're familiarwith the.
I'm going back to the Relateassessment.
Do you have you used that or doyou know of couples have used
that, or when they talk with youabout it?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, no, I have absolutely, and I've recommended
couples because it's verypersonalized to their
relationship and so it can showthem the strengths in their
relationship.
It can also highlight somepotential challenges and growth
areas for them and it'sself-interpretative in that they
can take it and get the resultsback immediately and go through
(19:38):
it together, and I love that.
You said you know there may besome things that come up where
they go.
Oh, we, you know, we may wantto reach out to a third party
and kind of explore some ofthese things.
So I've had couples reach outto me and say, hey, we got our
results from this relatesassessment and we'd love to talk
to you about some of them.
Yeah, absolutely, so I'mfamiliar with it.
I've had couples take it and Ilove that the state offers this
(20:02):
for free.
It's a great resource and yeah,so I'm so glad that we're
talking about it here.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
That's the one that my husband, ben and I took
because we got married just 12years ago.
So Relate was, you know, frontand center out of BYU, correct?
Because I remember going downsitting down with Dr Jeff Larson
, I think, is his name.
Does that sound familiar?
I think he was instrumental inthe Relate, so we found it super
helpful.
Gosh, I'd like to get my handson that now.
(20:31):
I'm going to go do some digging.
You've made me so curious aboutwhat that said.
You know.
Now, 12 years later, my memoryis a little foggy, but what a
great beginning.
I will always be grateful tothat and to Jeff Larson, you
know so, jeremy, in addition tothe Marriage Ready online
courses you created, you're alsotasked with creating a
(20:52):
re-Marriage Ready online course.
Tell us about that course.
I'm sure it has similaritiesand differences to Marriage
Ready.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, no, I'm glad that you asked about that
because it's something I've beenworking on over the last year
and I was so excited and honoredand even humbled that they
asked me to come back and towork on this.
Because, you know, there's alsoa personal and also
professional perspective that Ihave on this Because I am
(21:22):
remarried.
My wife and I were previouslymarried to other spouses and so
we've now been married, comingup on 15 years, and we're a
remarried couple that formed astep family, and so I've learned
a few things and understand andcan have some empathy to the
challenges that remarriage canbring.
(21:44):
And then also from aprofessional perspective, I also
work with and have worked withmany remarried couples as well
as couples who are preparing forremarriage and want to make
sure that they do it right, andso that's a little bit of my
background.
I've taught courses in thecommunity around remarriage.
(22:08):
I obviously teach at UVU aboutremarriage and understanding the
dynamics from that, and so fromthat professional perspective,
I was able to bring some of thatas well.
So with that background, whenthey asked me to do this, I
really wanted to get back intothe literature, the research and
(22:30):
understand what are theprofessionals out there, what
are they teaching, what are theywriting about, what are they
studying?
And because I wanted to get areally good grasp on what makes
remarriage successful, becausewe know from their heart,
remarriages have a higherdivorce rate than first-time
marriages and so we wanted tosee, well, how can Utah be
(22:54):
helpful to these couples and tryto decrease some of those
divorce rates.
And so I think this course andthe course on also step
parenting that Utah has will bevery valuable to any couple.
And kind of to go and answersome of your other questions,
what I like about this course iswe tried to integrate much of
(23:16):
the same content that was inMarriage Ready, because a lot of
the same principles andtheories and research is going
to apply to that.
But we also include parts ofremarriage that are very unique,
things like healing from oldemotional wounds.
You know previous relationshipnavigating step, parenting and
(23:37):
how areas such as sexualintimacy, finances,
communication, conflictresolution they've got some
nuances to it that a lot offirst-time married couples don't
have to bump up against,whereas remarried couples
they're bumping up against someof these unique challenges to
those areas, and so we tried toaddress those as well in this
(24:00):
course, and so what we havefound in the literature is that
many of the issues thatremarried couples face are
preventable.
I mean, a lot of scholars havetalked about that that if
remarried couples will do someeducation and some preventative
work a lot of these issues andchallenges that increase the
divorce rate, we can decrease itand help them to be more
(24:24):
intentional, more proactive intheir approach to preparing
better.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Sweet, sweet, wow.
And who better to lead the wayon remarriage ready than someone
like you, dr Jeremy Bowden?
You know, and you, front andcenter, live to tell about it
and I just am so grateful foryou.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
We'll be right back after this brief message, and
we're back, let's dive right in.
Jeremy, I'm curious, let mepick your brain for a second, if
you're uh, just maybe from yourexperiences, uh, as a therapist
(25:06):
, are remarried couples any more, um, open?
Maybe is the word to you know,remarriage preparation, or or is
there still some hesitancy?
Do you have a?
Do you get a sense?
You know what I'm saying?
As far as, like man, that wasreally challenging and I think
we could use some, some help, orgoing to a counselor or more or
(25:28):
less open about the same, orjust kind of very it kind of
varies, I would say.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
when they're in my office, when I've worked with
them one-on-one, they are readyto soak it.
In First-time married premaritalcouples they're a little
hesitant just because they don'tknow exactly what to expect.
But I think with remarriedcouples they tend to be a little
(25:56):
bit in my experience a littlebit more proactive.
They're more likely to do someof the work because they know.
Now they know what they didn'tknow and so they are going to
jump into it.
But the research shows that weneed to do a better job in
getting the word out that thereare resources like this
(26:17):
available, because a lot of themwill get caught up in that
dopamine drench of a newrelationship and that this
relationship is going to bedifferent and better than my
first marriage, and they getcaught up in that love cocktail
and kind of fall prey to some ofthe same thinking that
first-time married couples do.
And so it's definitely.
(26:38):
I would say it's probably evenmore important for remarried
couples to do some premaritaleducation than it would be for
first-time.
I mean, both are really, reallyimportant.
But I have found that theremarried couples I've worked
with they have just been sograteful for the things that
they wish they would have knownin their first marriage.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, interesting.
Well, jeremy, as we wrap up ourtime together, you kind of know
the drill.
You've been on the podcast.
We'd love to ask all of ourguests a couple of questions, so
I'm going to ask you again,even though you're on.
Yeah, a few years ago, what doyou feel like is the key to a
stronger marriage connection?
Or a key?
I don't know if there is thekey, but, yeah, what's an
(27:21):
important key to a strongermarriage connection?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Yeah, I wonder how I answered it back in the other
one, I'd have to go back andlisten to it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I don't know if it's changed in the last 30 years.
I know for the last few yearsone of the things because it's
such a great question andsomething that I often talk
about with my I have found is alot of couples believe that a
happy relationship has to bevoid of disconnections in order
(28:04):
for it to be happy or strong,that has to be void of conflict
and things like that.
But when we look at theresearch and even in my work
with couples, I have found thathappy marriages don't emerge
from a lack of conflict or alack of disconnections, but the
(28:24):
presence of consistent repairfrom those disconnections and
lots of positive connections.
I know we've used the wordconnections quite a bit in this,
but that is really if you kindof boil down I will say this to
my students a lot if you boildown all the research and what
it really finds is that it's notthat lack of conflict that
(28:48):
these master marriages, but it'sthe presence of consistent
repair and then supplementedwith lots and lots of positive
connections.
And so, in other words, happycouples struggle at times.
Happy couples have conflicts,they hurt each other's feelings,
they let each other down, butthese same couples that are
happy they're happy because theyrepair quickly and then they
(29:12):
have lots of positiveconnections throughout the day,
the week and throughout theyears that they're married and
these add up over time.
And this is my friend that I'mreally frustrated with.
This is my partner that justlet me down.
But I know that we love eachother, we care about each other
because we've had so manypositive connections and so it's
(29:33):
that ratio that helps them pushthrough some of those tough
moments.
But it's really about repair andbuilding in intentionally
building in lots of positiveconnections.
So in my work with couples theydon't come in and I don't
become this super problem solver.
I don't.
In my classes I don't teachabout how to solve each and
(29:56):
every problem.
What we do is really weidentify some of the cycles that
get in, that they get into,that create these disconnections
.
Then I help them to buildunderstanding and empathy and
compassion for each other'shurts and then express that
compassion to each other.
And then we talk about how canwe integrate lots of positive
connections into their marriage.
(30:16):
How can we repair?
Because it's really that's whatit comes down to.
It's the repair and theabundance of positive
connections that make strongmarriage connections.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Man well said, my friend Well said.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And you're so right.
Connection is really a key part, right?
I'm so glad it's part of ourpodcast name Stronger Marriage
Connection.
When we first were gettingtogether, dave and I and a few
other team members, and decidingthe name of this podcast, I
thought Stronger MarriageConnection was a mouthful.
Remember, dave have youforgiven me, dave I questioned
whether we should really need aconnection on it because I was
(30:53):
so such a fan of StrongerMarriage right, and that I'd
been a voice forStrongerMarriageorg and it was
very near and dear to me.
But it was the right thing todo.
You're right, jeremy, and youwere so right, dave.
You know, in addition to thesewonderful resources that are
safely created onStrongerMarriageorg, you offer
other resources and counselingservices as well.
(31:15):
Where can listeners go to findout more about you and what you
offer, jeremy?
And we'll tuck it away or nottuck it away.
We'll place it on our notes.
Following this podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, and thanks for asking that, liz I have my own
private practice.
I mean, I am a full-timefaculty at UVU so I'm quite busy
with that, but I have a privatepractice here in Provo.
In fact, that's where I'mrecording this.
And so, beyond the MarriageReady online course I've created
and the Remarriage Ready, Ialso created a personalized, a
(31:51):
little bit more intensivepremarital program called Before
we Say I Do, and this is forpremarital couples who are
interested in going into theirpreparation with a bit more
focus on their individualcircumstances, like I said, a
little bit more personalized.
And so the program includes aworkbook that I've written.
It includes videos and in theworkbook I have over you know,
(32:15):
in the workbook I have over 750discussion questions for them on
over 40 topics and stuff and ithas videos in it.
And then they meet with me forabout eight sessions or a
relationship educator, becauseI'm starting to train other
people in this.
I'm training some therapists,I'm training some relationship
educators, and if they want tolearn more about that, they can
(32:38):
go towwwcenterformarriageprepcom.
That's where they can get moreinformation on this.
Before we Say I Do program thatI just talked about there.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
My goodness, that's a wealth of information.
Centerformarriageprepcom.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I love it.
Yeah, again, our listeners, wewill add those to our show notes
.
Lots of links that we'rethrowing at you and resources,
but let me also plug Dr Bowden'sresources.
They're just world-class,top-notch, and we really don't
view these as a competition,it's more complimentary.
We say, man, yeah, go take hisstuff, and I believe your stuff
(33:22):
right counts for the six-houryou know the discount or get
therapy for three hours ofcounseling.
So our whole mission, reallywith the podcast, with the Utah
Marriage Commission, is to getgood information, research-based
information, out to couples, topeople who need it to help them
.
So, yeah, we are happy to shareany and all resources that we
(33:44):
feel are strong, research-basedand absolutely we put our stamp
on Dr Bowden's, all of his stuff.
So, yeah, great thing.
So go check those out.
Hey, jeremy, before we wrap up,we'd like to share and conclude
with a takeaway of the day.
Is there a take home messageyou hope our listeners will
remember from our discussion?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
today, a consistently great marriage and stronger
connection is very much possible, like most things.
But you know, like most thingsin life, it takes that
intentional, proactive andconsistent work.
Really preparing for marriageis one of the best ways to do
that, and so that would be mytakeaway that I hope people will
(34:32):
get, that they'll kind of gainthat conviction that, yes, that
is possible to have a greatmarriage and a strong connection
, but it is going to take somework beforehand and throughout
the relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
So yeah, yes, it does .
Yeah, Well said Liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Well, I love that.
I started this interview todayfeeling the same way, Jeremy,
about repair, repair, repair,right.
It happens again and againthroughout the course of our
marriages and it doesn't meansomething's wrong.
It's what's right with thatright, what's right with being
able to repair again.
And I'm just so impressedknowing much more now after our
(35:07):
interview with you, that HealthyRelationships, utahorg,
strongermarriageorg, of course,and wwwcenterformarriageprepcom
those are three strong resources.
I'm going to print those outand hand them out in my private
practice.
So thank you for that, Dave.
What about you?
What's the richest nugget youhope that we're all going to
(35:28):
remember from our time todaywith Dr Jeremy Bowden?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, thanks, liz.
Jeremy, I want to come fullcircle almost to how I started.
There are, you know, just tonsand tons.
You go to chat, gpt hey, whatdo I need to do to prepare for
marriage?
You get all kinds ofinformation, but we hope that
you will go to theresearch-based information, that
the trusted that is tried andtrue, developed from scholars,
therapists, that come togetherto put this out there for you.
(35:54):
So, if you're listening to thisright now and you're not
preparing for marriage, but youknow someone who is, or you're a
parent, and you know someonewho is getting engaged, or you
just say, hey, man, they couldreally use some of those Again,
the webinars and the e-courses,our podcasts.
We hope that you will sharethis information about the
Marriage Ready, the RemarriageReady and all the wonderful
(36:16):
resources that we have here thatthe Utah Marriage Commission
has put together with USUExtension.
Share it with those that youcome in contact with.
Don't keep that a secret.
Get this information out as ourhope so we can help couples to
have a stronger marriageconnection.
So, jeremy, thanks again formaking time to come on.
(36:36):
Thanks for the great work thatyou do, both for the commission,
uh, at Utah Valley universityin your therapy practice, you
are doing a lot of good, myfriend.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Thank you so much, dave and Liz.
I I'm honored to, to be part ofthis and to just uh talk with
the two of you, who are alsoleaders in this great work of
strengthening marriage.
So thank you for your efforts,your knowledge and expertise.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
We'll do it again a third time sometime, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, yeah, let's do that for now.
That's all, my friends.
Thanks for tuning in foranother episode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
And remember it's the small things that create a
stronger marriage connection.
Take good care now.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram,
(37:41):
at StrongerMarriageLife, andFacebook, at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(38:03):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
, rex Polanis and the team atUtah State University, and you,
our audience.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
(38:24):
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
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