Dr. Edwin Nichols, Brother Obie & Paul Pumphrey on The Carl Nelson Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Grand Rising family, and welcome to Wednesday. Later, industrial
psychologists Doctor Edwin Nichols will be back in that classroom. Now,
Doctor Nichols will he will use his expertise and explain
why the official House of Will aspects I can't speak
this morning of cultural differences. Before doctor Nichols, o DC
activists and journalist Brother Obi will preview a program for

(00:21):
Kwame Teray Momentaro the Friends of the Congos. Paul Pumphrey
will join us. But first let's get Kevin to open
the classroom doors. Its hum day, Grand Rising, Kevin.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Grand Rising, indeed, Carl Nelson the Carl Nelson Show University
doors are officially open. After I get ready to get set,
We're going to learn a lot. Hey Carl, So how
are you feeling.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm still learning, brother, yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Man.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
They say that learning leads to peace, and peace leads
to here. I am, yeah, yeah, exactly, And so it's
another day. It's like I said, the Wednesday of the
twelfth of November. As the monk continues to go on,
airlines are still being canceled, and they say airlines are

(01:12):
expected to cancel six percent of their flights at forty
of the busiest airports in the United States and to
comply with an order from the Federal Aviation Administration amid
the government's shutdown. Because now, speaking of the shutdown, the
House now has it right, this is day forty three
of the shutdown. A vote in the House could bring

(01:35):
the impass to an end. And one more thing about that.
The House of Representatives is expected to approve the bill
and it extends funding levels for the government through January thirtieth,
which includes a trio of appropriation bills for some federal
programs like Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program also known as SNAP

(01:59):
through number thirtieth. Payments for SNAP, which provides food assistance
to nearly forty two million people, have been locked in
a court fight as a result of the shutdown. Any
thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Car, Yeah, when you just said that until January, I don't
just have a feeling we're going to go through this
again in January. I don't know why I get that feeling.
What day January is? Is it the end of January?

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:22):
January thirty.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, that's just around the corner, you know, right right? Yeah,
I just feel we're going to go through this all
over again coming January. Oh you probably have a different outcome. Yeah,
because this was the longest shutdown in history.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Right it sure is?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Man forty three days and you've got that kind of
a feeling. How are you feeling about the Powerball nine
hundred million dollars?

Speaker 4 (02:44):
You've got a number for Risco.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
I wish let me ask you this if you if
I don't know if you played, but I didn't play,
But if you played and you won, would you quit
your job?

Speaker 5 (02:57):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
As a matter of fact, I've asked myself that many times.
Not only would I not quit my job, I wouldn't
tell people like one nine hundred million dollars either.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
But all of its.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Hard to hide though, Kevin, I know, I know you
couldna be a new car, new clothes, flashy and look and.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Look, newsflash. I would start with a brand new watch.
You know it was a real nice watch. It's just
so that people who know and no watches would know.
Wait a second, where'd you get that cartier? You see
what I'm saying. But it would be subtle changes like that.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Is what it would be. You know.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
All right, family folks at the station. Now you see
Kevin with a new watch. He's got an expensive not
of all my watch, right, Mickey mouse watch. He's got
a brand new watch, and that a new rolex, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Right, and not that typical rolex, not the one for
sports you know where they it has the timer on it,
so real, thick, I'd get that subtle one with the leather,
with the leather.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
But you know what, I guess me, Kevin, when it
comes to stuff like that, I see people buy knockoffs
and you if you don't know watches, you and you
will see that that's not a Rolelextion Scott. It's a
fake rolex. Why would you? Why would you? I asked
this dude once I said why'd you put a fake?
He got him sat because I said, why did you
put a fake role? Ex? I mean, everybody knows how
that the second hand sweeps.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
It's because Snoop dog Snoop Dogg told him.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I got a roller over my arm and I'm drinking
what is it gen Dome or whatever.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, but if you can't have the real thing, why
why wake up for the fake? I just don't get.
That's not me. But you know, and this guy was
really upset because I guess he thought he fooled people.
They thought it was a real wine. Well, as long
as it makes you feel good, that's the point.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, it probably made him feel well.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
And speaking of feeling good, the the Democratic Socialist mayor,
who was also a Muslim, had an Afrikana studies degree. So,
according to News One, if the phrase Muslim Democratic socialists
already makes conservatives sweat, then Africana studies, like black studies,

(05:13):
is the accelerant to an explosion, they say this time,
the collective mind of the Conservatives say that they're imploding
over Zaran Kwame Mandani, the Ugandan born, South African raised
Queen's Bread Muslim Democratic socialists say that five times real quick,

(05:36):
who has been elected mayor of New York City. The
pundit class that spent years fear mongering about affirmative action,
critical race theory, DEI, and Marxism in the classroom, Mandani's
victory is their nightmare.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
You know. He's got brown skin, African name, Muslim.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Faith, socialist politics, and perhaps most scandalous of all, he
has a bachelor's degree in African studies from Bowdoin College,
if I'm saying that correctly, and that's the college out
of Maine founded in seventeen ninety four from what do
you say about that?

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Do we teer? Do we keep an eye on this guy?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
He's there, He's a nightmare. Everything they despise so embodied
in one person. And he's the mayor, Mary elect, you'll
be the mayor of the nation's biggest city. So that's
what's that's what's frightening to them.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
They say, he's.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
He won the lot of he did.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, exactly, he's too They say he's too woke, too global,
too intellectual, too brown, too Muslim, to socialists, to everything.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
So I guess the only thing he didn't win is
Man of the Year.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yet, right, that's probably down the road.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, they say, a man born in Uganda, raised partly
in post apartheid South Africa, and educated in the United States.
And they don't see the promise of a racial democracy.
They see the death of their dominance. And you know,
I guess they just isn't America great? Only in America?

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Don King?

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Don King was exactly man. So that's all all the
time I take from you. And it's again the twelfth
of November, and we've got your illustrious guests standing by
an old friend of mine and yours from yesterday.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Thanks Kevin, Thank you, carl family. Let's bring in Paul
Pumphrey Grand Rising. Paul, Welcome to the.

Speaker 6 (07:35):
Program, good boy, happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Paul is a member of French of the Congo, which
on About Africa with Kevin. Mama Charlie. How did you
the French of the Congo. How did that come about?

Speaker 6 (07:52):
Well, it came about the fact that I pay a
lot of attentions about what's happening in other parts of
the world, and I looked at what was going on
in the Congo. It caught my attention for several reasons. One,
it was a country in which millions of people were
being killed and the media wasn't talking about it at all.

(08:15):
And then I looked at why were they being killed?
And the Congo happens to be an area, the second
largest country in the continent of Africa. It's located right
in the center of Africa. It's got the second largest
rainforest in the world, the second most powerful river in
the world, and it's loaded with a tremendous amount of

(08:39):
minerals and natural resources. And so when you begin to
look at the water's going on there, you find out
that the only place people are being killed is where
those minerals are located. And I, being a product of
the struggle around dealing with the system of a Part eight,

(09:03):
I said, wait a minute. I found that back in
the seventies when I worked with the struggle around of
Part eight, I was co founder of an organization called
the Anti Apart eight Movement USA, which allowed me to
work with the different movements out of Southern Africa, the

(09:25):
Patriotic Front. I'm sorry, yeah, what was going on in
Namibia which was Swappo, what was happening in South Africa,
the AC and the PAC and also what was going
on in Zimbabwe which was Zanu and Zapou. And so
I said, let me do the same thing, because if

(09:49):
people of the United States are not aware of what's
going on, they're not going to challenge what is going on.
And as with the Part eight, the US businesses in
the US government was very much involved in what was
happening in the Congo. And so I got together with
two other friends of mine and we discussed the fact

(10:10):
that it was the need to do a strong educational campaign
in the United States to help people in the United
States understand what's going on in the Congo because the
media was not giving a very good accurate description of
what was happening there in the Congo. In fact, the
image they like to give of Africa is that Africa's
poor and that all the US is doing is just

(10:33):
helping these poor people, when the facts were just the opposite.
The Congo River, which is the second largest river in
the world, is powerful enough that if they had hydro
electric dams put on that one river, they could produce
enough electricity to meet the electric needs of the continent

(10:55):
of Africa for the next thirty years. That when you
look at the amount of minimum in the ground in
the Congo, you're looking at somewhere around about roughly over
two hundred trillion dollars. And that's the minerals in their
raw format. If they got refined in the Congo, you'll
be looking at somewhere over one hundred and twenty trillion

(11:15):
dollars in value. And that these are minerals that are
used a great deal in the electronic industry, such as
coo tan, as well as the battery industry such as cobalt,
as well as the ten they used to solder the
electronic components. And so I'm like wait a minute. It

(11:39):
means that large US corporations, whether they're making computers or laptops,
or making your cell phones or the other types of
electronic components that are used in today's world, are getting
a lot of these products from that region of the country,
in the Congo, where all these people are losing their lives.

(12:02):
And so there is a real need for the people
of the United States I understand what's going on, because
you're not going to stop what's happening if you don't
know what's happening. If you don't know you have cancer,
you're not going to make an effort to do something
about your cancer. So we decided to create this nonprofit
to do this educational campaign around the Congo and to

(12:23):
help the people of the United States to better understand
that the US government and its corporations are playing a
major role behind the tragedy of people being unnecessarily killed
for the minerals that they happen to live on top
of us. And you find that the only.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Right there Paul at fourteen at that's out there family
just waking up. As Paul Pumphras is a member of
the Friends of the Congo. We're talking about the Congo,
the Democrat Republic of Congo. That's where they go by
the Congo, if you will. Some of you may recall
the rumble in the jungle that was George former my
aamad Ali fight. That was that's when people for most,
for many people, the Congo came on the scene where

(13:06):
the fight was there, and that's that's when people heard
the name of the Congo. But you're giving us details
about the richness, the mineral richness of the Congo. This,
I guess the epicenter for all the fights fight, not
not boxing matches, but fights for these multi corporations they're
trying to get their hands on. Am I correcting saying
that that's correct.

Speaker 6 (13:27):
It's very much correct. And you find that in fact,
the US involvement in the Congo didn't just start around
these minimals in the United States involving in the Congos
all the way back to King Leopol And a lot
of people know about the history of King Leopold from
Belgium and the fact that he was seen as being

(13:48):
responsible for killing literally ten of thousands of Congolese around
the issue of bubber Well one. I always ask people
to think about it. During that time history, Belgium was
a fairly underdeveloped country in Europe and had really no
need for rubber. So why was Belgium killing all these people,

(14:11):
I mean cutting their hands off of their members of
their family to encourage people to harvest more rubber. And
the answer was who was Belgium selling this rubber too?
And you have to look at the company called Ford
Motor Company and other automotive industries that were being developed
in the United States. They had a great deal of

(14:31):
need for rubber, and this is who they was selling
it to the United States companies. And so in many ways,
which is often not discussed when they described the history
of the Congo, the US businesses and the US government
had as much, if not more responsibility behind the amount

(14:56):
of Congolese that had family members, arms and hands cut
off because they didn't meet their quota in hollist and
the rubber.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
You know.

Speaker 6 (15:08):
And again this is the thing where the media doesn't
talk about it because media makes a lot of money
off of these corporations advertisement, and of course they don't
want to be given bad images, so they don't talk
about it.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
I'll not throw it right there, Paul, we gotta step
aside for a few moments and you know, I'll let
you finish your story when you get back. Family just
waking up seventeen after the top there. I guess it's
Paul Pumphrey. He's about of the group called Friends of
the Congo. We're talking about the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Some of you know about Patricia La Mumba, Joseph and Mobutu.
We can hear all these names. And we talked about
King Leopold and the Belgian Congo. It was once known

(15:44):
and it's just rich. It's just a lusher with a
lot of minerals. And this is what the fight is for. Anyway,
as I mentioned, we got to step aside and come
back with Paul. You got questions about the Congo, though,
reach out to us at eight hundred four or five
zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your phone calls.
Next and Grand Rising Family facts are waking up us
twenty one minutes after the top, the out with Paul Pumphrey.
Paul is I remember the Friends of the Congo and

(16:05):
he's telling us about the Congo, and he's right, we
don't hear much about the Congo. That's where I mentioned
those few names before we left the break, and I
also mentioned the Rumble in the Jungle with George Foreman
and Muhammad Ali fight as well as all people know
about the Congo. But there's much more to the Congress,
so rich with a lot of minerals, so Paul, I'll
let you pick it up from there.

Speaker 6 (16:24):
Yes, And speaking of the Roman in the Jungle. Back
in the nineteen sixty the people of the Congo decided
that they no longer wanted the Belgians running their country,
and so they organized and pushed for independence from Belgium.

(16:47):
And when that happened, they had an election. And when
they hit that election, the people overwhelmingly decided they wanted
to Trease La Mumber to be their first prime minister.
So they elected Patrits of the Muma to be the
first prime Minister of Belgium, even though countries like Belgium

(17:09):
and the United States put a lot of money into
trying to get other candidates to win the election. After
he After he won the election to become prime minister
of the country, he immediately got pushed back from Belgium
as well as that of the United States, and he

(17:30):
made every attempt to actually ask the United States for support,
because he looked at the US Constitution and what it
said and assumed that they're moving in the same direction
that the United States moved in from the perspective of
moving away from a country with a king lenning them

(17:56):
to a country where the people could vote and decide
on the leaders. They wanted to make the decisions for
the country. So he approached the US representative there and
asked for support and got very little response. So he
went a step further and actually chartered a plane and

(18:17):
flew to Washington, d C. To talk to the US
President at the time, which was Dwight Eisenhower. Eisenhower refused
to meet with him, but had people from the State
Department to meet with him, and they basically were telling
him that he needed to allow the US and Europe

(18:40):
to dictate him how to run his country. So he
ended up leaving and coming back to the United States,
and through some papers there was later exposed from the
US federal government, the decision was made that he had
to go that then he had to move from being

(19:01):
the prime minister, and so when he got back to
the to the Congo. There was a very short time
later that later reports have shown that the CIA, along
with the Belgiums and even the British, participated in having
him overthrown and actually killed. And after they killed him,

(19:25):
they decided that they did not want the people of
the Congo to have any evidence of him even existing,
so they then cut up his body and put it
in acid so that they would never be able to
even find a grave for Patrise the Mumber. Just recently,
a couple of years ago, it was the world was

(19:48):
made aware that one of the Belgians who was involved
with the assassination of Patrisa the Mumber, took out one
of Patrists of the Mumber's chefs as a souvenir and
took it back to Belgium. And when it got exposed
that he still had a tooth of Patricia la Mumber,
there was a big demand that that tooth be returned

(20:11):
back to Belgium, and only about two years ago did
Belgium return Patricia Mumber's tooth. But that's again showing an
example of how our government participated in fighting against the
democratic process of the Congo. Because of the wealth of

(20:34):
the Congo at that time, people were aware the Congo
had gold, it had copper, it had uranium, it had diamonds.
In fact, during World War Two, when the United States
put together the Adam baumb that was the two bombs
that were dropped in Japan, the uranium used for those

(21:00):
bombs came from the Congo when the Belgians were controlling
the Congo. And so the history of the United States
involving in the Congo goes way back, even back through
the time of World War Two and back during the
time of the late eighteen hundreds when they were developing

(21:22):
the auto industry here in the United States. So when
people start back and say, well, what should I have
anything to do as a senis of the United States
to what's going on in the Congo, we need to
be very clear that the US government has used our
tax dollars to undermine democracy in the Congo for a

(21:43):
very long time. And if we truly believe that we
have democracy here, then we must demand better of our
government's use of our tax dollars. And when we look
at the fact we just had a shutdown I think
it was forty three days here in this country of

(22:04):
our tax dollars not being used to deal with such
things as healthcare and education, I mean students going to
college now and spending over one hundred thousand dollars to
go to college and get a degree and being in debt,
that we must pay more attention to how our government

(22:25):
and our politicians are spending our tax dollars and making
sure that our tax dollars are being spent to encourage
democracy rather than the exploitation and general sylo acts. Because
from nineteen the United Nations did an estimate from nineteen

(22:48):
ninety six to two thousand and six that over six
million men, women and children just in the eastern part
of the Congo where those venals are located. I talked
about it earlier, were killed and there were hundreds and
hundreds of thousands of women and girls that were brutally

(23:08):
raped during that period of time to push people off
the land where those venerals are located, so that mostly
fine mining companies could come in and mind those minerals
and export those minerals too Europe and the United States

(23:31):
so that the high tech industry could use them. And again,
the problem is that the media is not really explaining
very much about what's going on there. And that's the
reason why we started Prince of the Congo to do that,
to begin to raise people's awareness about what is really
going on in the Congo. Just this past October, every October,

(23:55):
the third week of October, we organized what we call
Congo Week, and this is a week in which we
do educational campaigns not just here in the United States,
but around the world and helping people better understand the
atrocities are happening inside the Congo, because we really believe

(24:18):
that the average person, if they knew, would really challenge
our tax dollars being used to carry out such war crimes.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
And you see the first second, hold thought right there,
because you gave us the history of the Congo, and
it's just so much history in the Congo. You're right,
we don't get the stories about the Congo here or
about Africa here, and we know the reasons why thirty
minutes at the top of the family just waking up
with us, I guess he's Paul Pumphrey. Paul is one
of the members of the Friends of the Congo, and

(24:53):
he's telling us why he's that group was formulated. Why
it was because one of the reasons of the Congo
is one of the rich countries on the planet. It's
got all this mineral. Well, but all, and that's why
it's attracted. As you mentioned, the Belgians, the French, everybody's
trying to get in and trying to get the minerals
from this African country. And you may not know the
name of the Congo, but if you have a computer

(25:15):
or a cell phone something, probably correct me if I'm
wrong here, Paul, that they use some of the materials
that made in today's iPhones and Android phones and computers
that come from the Congo.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
Right, that's correct. In fact, eighty of those components they
need those minerals, Those minerals were taken out of a congo,
and then the people of the Congo are not getting
any real benefits for those minerals at all.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right, And my question of this all the time is, so,
how can Africa cut out the middleman? Why can't they,
you know, developed, since they need the minerals, why can't
they produce the end product themselves? What's what? What is it?
What is it the need?

Speaker 6 (26:02):
Well, I think the main reason is that US corporations
do not want to pay a fair price for these minerals,
and so they rather have the minerals stolen from the Congo,
where they can get at a much cheaper price, and
that's what's been going on, and so you can call
it armed robbery because they're using arms. Right now to

(26:24):
this very moment as we speak, there's a group in
the Congo made mainly up of foreigners from the countries
of Uganda Rwanda that they call it M twenty three
and they have carried out an onslaught on the communities
in that eastern region of the Congo where these minerals

(26:47):
are located. And again where they're getting their arms from.
Obviously they don't make guns, they don't make rocket launchers,
they don't make bullets. Where they're coming from. These weapons
are coming from developed countries like that of the United
States and Europe. And why are they getting these weapons?

(27:09):
And like where did they get the money to buy
all these weapons? I mean they're nowhere near any ocean
where someone could shift the stuff into them. And they're
not made the equipment. Those weapons aren't made in the
United I mean made in Africa. So obviously it means
that these weapons are being supplied from US and European

(27:32):
countries that I've been used to carry out the massive slaughter.
I know. I was in the eastern part of the
Congo just last year, and while I was there, I
was in a town called Goma. Well, at the time
I was there, the m twenty three was on his

(27:53):
march towards Goma, and after I left, about three weeks later,
they took over Goma. And when they took it over
UN peacekeeping forces in Goma. Interestingly enough, the United States
uses its vital power at the UN Security Council to
make sure that the UN peacekeepers cannot use their weapons

(28:17):
to protect the lives of women, children, and men in
the Congo. The only time they can use their weapons
is if these external forces are shooting directly at the
UN forces, then they can use their weapons to protect themselves,
but not the people of the Congo. And one has

(28:39):
to ask the question why would the United States use
its vital power in the Security Council to put that
restriction in there. If they're supposed to be peacekeepers, then
one would assume the way they be peacekeepers is to
in fact protect the people of the Congo, because that's
where they are and said they're only using their weapons

(29:01):
to protect themselves if they are directly threatened themselves. And
so when they took over M twenty three took over Goma.
Three of the peacekeepers from South Africa under UN Peacekeeping Force.

Speaker 7 (29:16):
Were killed.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
And the city of over one and a half million
people Goma. And why is that city hit such a
large population because many of the people living in that
city where people who have been displaced from their homes
in the community surrounding Goma by these same forces. And

(29:40):
you have the United States using our tax dollars to
supply weapons to countries like Uganda, like we wander who
have close working relationships and often find that their troops
are working hand in hand with M twenty three as
they invade the mentally rich area of the eastern part

(30:02):
of the Congo. And so we say, people of the
United States, you need to understand how our tax dollars
are being spent. They're demtum Island. They're telling us that, oh,
we don't have money, and we got to cut back
on healthcare, and we got to cut back on aid
to the universities and colleges here, which drives up tuition. No,

(30:27):
we need to pay attention to how our tax dollars
are being spent in the Department of Defense. When we
look at our national budget, about fifty percent of every
tax dollar that people pay in this country to the
federal government goes to the Department of Defense, and so

(30:49):
the question has to be asked, how is it that
we have our Department of Defense sending weapons to Bwanda,
sending weapons to Uganda when they're carrying out wars of
aggression against the people of the Congo.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, Paul, Yeah, these are questions we need to answer.
But you know what, we got to step aside real
quick and get caught up with the latest news, trafficking,
weather in our different cities. It's twenty four minutes away
from the top day. Our family just waking up with us.
I guess it's Paul Humphrey. Paul is part of the
group called the Friends of the Congo. He's telling us
what's going on in the Congo, also giving us some history. Paul,
when we get back, can you please tell the folks

(31:29):
about Purtise la Mumba. I mean a lot of people
know the name, they've heard the name, they mentioned the
name they don't know and they some people know about
his demise, but they don't know what really happened all
of that. So if you can share that with us
when we get back so people understand really what you're
talking about. The fight is for the minerals in I'm looking, yeah,

(31:49):
the fight is for the minerals in the Congo. Twenty
three away for the top of the out Fami. I'm
distracted here, but we got to step away for a
few moments. If you want to get in on this conversation,
reach out to us eight hundred and four to five
zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your phone
calls after the news that's next and Grand Rising family,
thanks for waking up with us on this Wednesday morning
at seventeen minutes away from the top of the hour.

(32:10):
I guess it's Paul Pumphrey. Paul is a member of
the group the Friends of the Congo. We're talking about
the Congo in Africa, the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Before we go back to the olymbits, remind you. Coming
up later this morning, we're going to be joined by
doctor Ed Nichols. Doctor Ed Nichols is an industrial psychologist.
He's going to share his expertise on the philosophical aspects
of cultural differences. Before we get to doctor Nicholson, brother

(32:33):
Obie's an activist and a journalist in Washington, DC is
going to preview a program for kwameteray and tomorrow Sima TAPS.
Doctor James McIntosh will be here along with clinical psychiatrist
doctor jerome E. Fox. So if you are in Baltimore,
make sure your radio is locked in tight on ten
ten WLB, or if you're on the DMV, run it
AM fourteen fifteen WL. So Paul before we take caff Field,

(32:54):
because it's I think it's important that people know the
story about Patrice Lamumas. Can you share that with us
before it can cause.

Speaker 6 (33:02):
Okay? Patrishul Mumu was a postal worker in the Congo
and the fervor of pushing for independence from control over
the Belgiums. And I talked earlier about King Leopold. When

(33:22):
the story got out around the world that King Liopol
was responsible for killing over thirteen million Congolese, the solution
that was given was not that to take the King
of Belgium out from controlling the local politics of the Congo,
but to turn over the control of the Congo to

(33:45):
the government of Belgium. Chi was king, of of course,
continually the lobver and other raw materials out of the
Congo was still going to the same companies that were
using them around the world, and the people began to
get organized, in which Patrisse La Mumber was head of

(34:08):
one of the organizations, the mobilizing the conomists people to
demand that they be allowed to control their own country
and not have a European country thousands of miles away
making all the major decisions about which happened to their country.
As that movement built, Belgium was forced to have an

(34:29):
election to decide whether or not the people themselves wanted
to have independence from Belgium, and then would they decide that,
but also would decide who would they want to hit
that new government, and overwhelmingly Patrice Lamumber was voted in
as the first elected Prime Minister of Belgium. Now, immediately

(34:54):
after he wins this election, he makes it very clear
that he does not want external governments controlling the domestic
policies of the Congo. But he had a small problem,
and the problem was that the under the Belgian government,

(35:15):
very few people in the country of the Congo. Now
remember this is the second launch of the country in Africa. Today,
very few people had actually even gone through college. In fact,
I understand it was somewhere close to like six to
eight Congolese out of the millions of people in that
country had actually even gone to college. And so he

(35:40):
moved forward to push again that the country cut its
ties from having the Belgian military and the Belgian government
making the major decisions of the country, and that the
country had to stop making its own decisions. Now patrisa mumbo.
In his study, Bud had seen a copy of the

(36:03):
US Constitution and he's like, oh, this looks like a
good example of what we need to do. So he
made his first appeal to the US government for their
assistance in helping the Congolese people set up a government
similar to the one here in the United States as

(36:24):
he understood it from what he could read and looking
at the Constitution. Well, the US ambassador wanted no parts
of that, and so since he could not work through
the US ambassador, he literally chartered a plane and flew
to Washington, d C. To meet directly with the US
president at that time, it was Osenhower in his last

(36:46):
year in office. Well, Eisenhower refused to meet with him
and had him meet with some lower level people in
the State Department, and being frustrated, he then left the
cock to the Congo. And as he went back to
the Congo, there were a number of attempts inside the

(37:07):
Congo to get these quote unquote unruly Congolese who wanted
their independence to actually follow the instructions of the Belgians
and the US government soldiers. At the same time, Katango,

(37:28):
which is in the southern part of the Congo, which
had the uranium and the copper belt on the Congo,
they encouraged the people living in that region to ask
for independence away from the Congo because at the time
that was a major industry of raw materials that was needed.

(37:52):
That was of copper and of uranium. As I mentioned earlier,
the uranium used in the atom ball.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Give us a short version, you're going to go real
deep on it, Okay.

Speaker 6 (38:06):
So anyway, so what happened, what ended up happening was that, yes,
what ended up happening was he put Patrica Mumba on
the house arrest. He escaped out of house arrest and
they caught him. And when they caught him, they then
decided they had to get rid of him, so they
threw him over to the southern part of the Congo

(38:28):
and killed him, And not only did they killed him
and two of his top leaders, but they decided that
they wanted no evidence of even his remains to be
found inside the Congo, so they none killed him, but
they then chopped up his body and put his body
into a barrel of acid so that there would be

(38:50):
no memorial place that the Congolse people could come and
even get inspiration to again to push for the independence
that was pushed under his leadership. And so that's what happened.
And then the United States played a major role not
only in the killing of him, but also in choosing

(39:12):
his successor, which was a gentleman by the name of
Mbutu who was a sergeant in the old Congolese Belgian army,
and made him president for over thirty some years. And
the major aid the United States gave Abutu was military

(39:33):
aid to control the people of the Congo from challenging
the colluption that was happening inside the country. And of course,
during that time, billions of dollars of diamonds, billions of
dollars of popper, billions of dollars worth of uranium was
leaving the country, and very little that was being used

(39:55):
to benefit the lives of the people of the Congo,
and so to.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Nine away from the top there, I didn't I didn't
want to be the long version because we're don't have
time for all of that. As I mentioned Snine away
from the top them be it's holding from Atlanta. Once
you get in, all this conversation is online too, Grand Rising,
being you're on the Paul Pumphrey.

Speaker 5 (40:19):
Grand Rise and blah blah call Grand Rising Paul. Hopefully,
if everyone's doing well and the answers extense around both
of you, all My question is, as I to hear
my elders speak, do you have blah blah Paul, do
you feel like this a momentous task for us as
Africans here? And I call African Americans stole Africans many times,

(40:41):
these tasks are so momentous, and the energies to shift
them take generations. And when I look at what's going
on in the Motherland for over there, it's like we
fight on one side to remove the imperiless. However they're
on the other side there here the imperialists put leaders

(41:01):
that look like us, but controlled by whiteness. So it's
a tug of war. Also when we have our brothers
and sisters that come here since they don't understand the
system of white supremacy, and as our elder nearly for
Queen Mother Francis taught us, they adopt sometimes DoPT that mentality.
So they vote for Trump, which Trump is pro all

(41:22):
the mining companies.

Speaker 7 (41:23):
They vote for Reagan.

Speaker 5 (41:25):
So so, just studying it and setting at the feet
of my elders, it seems like it's come to this
tugging war where we want in say, hey, let's get
rid of Cia, Let's get rid of that leader. And
you may have people over here that come when I
was to come over here, they adapt addicted to whiteness
and they don't understand the true understanding. Now those as
you say, still on the congo fighting and understand it.

(41:46):
But say once they get here, it almost you do
a time war. And it just seems history it has
always been this tug of war. We're filing hey, because
I got a kind of these grand that voted for Trump,
and he said Trump gonna be good for business. And
I'm looking at it and I'm talking. I'm telling about
the book White Malices, and he I'm telling no, And
we kind of back and forth like well it would
be good, and it just you be understanding like wow, Like, so,

(42:09):
how can a people shift? How can I just plainly
simply say it. If you don't handle the work in
your house, how can I come in your house? If
you don't clean the dirt in your house? How can
I come and clean the dirt in your house if
you don't want the dirt remove? And I know that
don't speak for all kinds of leaders. I'm talk about
those who over here. It's come to this shift and
it's a spiritual, psychologist biological shift. I mean fight. I

(42:32):
could constantly hear that on this radio. We on this side,
so like, hell, that's wrong, get rid of with system
white supremacy. But we me and you bah Blahkarl cannot
control those leaders that make these deals and as bah
Blah calls say, that make deals that other people controlled resource.
So like, is this a momentous tad that we should
not be fighting or we should be helping those understand

(42:55):
who really run it, not us? I think more times
they may not know who really control the streams and power.
As we have been doing this study thin William that
was back in the Congo, or the fact that we
were fortunately w the board. We know what we're dealing with,
and sometimes I think they don't understand the depth the
duality of being an African in this world. So I

(43:17):
hope we have a great day.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
People. Thank you, thank you for that question.

Speaker 6 (43:25):
I thank you for that question. One thing you have
to keep in mind, and that is, no person of
another country comes into the United States with our first
getting permissioned from the United States. They can't participate. Nobody
from another country legally comes into the United States without
getting permission from the United States. So you have to

(43:47):
be questioning what kind of questions are the United States
asking refugees coming in from another country, especially from the Congo,
and which they approved them the visas to come into
the US. Secondly, you have to keep in mind that

(44:08):
there's a lot of confusion going on. For example, but
Trace the Moumber clearly was voted in by the majority
of the people of the Congo, but since he was overthrown,
that has not really been in an election that were
free and fair inside the Congo. I observed an election

(44:30):
in two thousand and six, and what was interesting about
that election was that you had the United Nations supervising
the election. The person who was head of the UN
supervision of the election in two thousand and six was
a gentleman by the name of William Swing. I encourage

(44:51):
you look up his name. Google his name William Swing.
Who is William Swing?

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Well?

Speaker 6 (44:57):
William Swing was a US ambassador in Congo Bosville right
at the time Congo Bosaville had a coop to Utar.
Then he moved to be ambassador the US ambassador in
Libylia when Libylia had a coop to DeTar. Then he
was sent down to South Africa right before South Nelson
Mandela became president, in which he encouraged the white regime

(45:21):
of South Africa to spend all the money in the budget.
So when Medela gets there, he would not have money
to pay the military or the police, which was of
course the white military of South Africa and the white
police of South Africa, which would have meant a blood path.
So now Mandela, as he's getting ready to become president,
has to negotiate with international banks to get the money

(45:43):
to take payroll. And of course.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Right there we got to step aside and get caught
up in the trafficking weather. Our different cities and interesting
story of the family. Paul Pumphreys, I guess if he's
just wanted who's speaking. He's a member of the Friends
of the Congo. We're talking about the Congo this morning.
You want to join discussion, reach out to us at
eight hundred and four or five zero seventy eight seventy
six and we'll take your phone calls after the trafficking
weather that's next and grind rising family, thanks for starting

(46:09):
your Wednesday with us. Halfway through the work with our guest,
Paul Pumphrey. Paul is a member of the group the
Friends of the Congo. He's given us a story of
background story about the Congo. So Paul, I'll let you
finish your story.

Speaker 6 (46:21):
Oh so, basically, William Swing then becomes the ambassador in Nigeria,
and of course why he's in Nigeria, there's a cud deeta.
He leaves Nigeria, he goes to Haiti at the time
that President of State is being returned to Haiti from
the United States from the attempted cu deetal. That's when

(46:45):
I meet him in nineteen ninety five. And that's when
I found out because I asked him a simpook question
like both this is a history in the State Deparliament.
So I'm back in Haiti in ninety eight and I
asked a friend of mine, what is this guy up
to now that, Oh, he's not here anymore? Where is he?
Oh he's in the Congo And what is going on
in the Congo and attempted military coup They're not successful

(47:06):
because Zimbabwe, Namibia and Angola send their truths in to
defeat the Truce of Yuganda Mwanda in the Congo. Okay,
So he stays.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Before before was this Williamson was her brother?

Speaker 6 (47:24):
No, no, no, no, he was an Anglo American and.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Moving around on these black countries.

Speaker 6 (47:31):
You know exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
That's what aad Okay, that's important.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
And so then so then he stays honors ambassador to
the Congo until two thousand and one January twentieth to
two thousand and one, and at that point he left
his post as ambassador and retired from the State Department.
But guess what, the President of the Congo was killed
on January sixteenth, two thousand and one. Now one may

(47:57):
think that this is all coincidence that just everywhere this
guy seems to go ahead of State is overthrown. But
this is the history and you can look it up.
His name is William Swing. Google his name and they'll
tell you every place he was located in the around
the world as an ambassador for the United States States Department. Now,

(48:20):
what is even more interesting is that in two thousand
and six, the Congos had an election, and so I'm
going over to the being international observer to the election.
And guess who is the head of the UN supervision
of the election in the Congo. William Swing.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Wow out right there, because we're just about out of time.
Now you get into the lead of things, Paul, We're
going to have to come back and pick up on
this story. And I got to look at this guy,
William Swing.

Speaker 6 (48:53):
He moved around and here's everybody to look him up.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, but we will, you know. And he was not
dead finding people, you know, you just walk around like that.
He couldn't blend in with the brothers on the content
or in Haiti. He stood out like that.

Speaker 6 (49:07):
And well, obviously he must have been sent there for
specific cash to do, and that's exactly what he did.
If there was a government that the United States did
not like because they wanted certain business deals that they
weren't getting it seemed that his job was to go
down and get rid of that captain and hit state.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
And he was working for the States.

Speaker 6 (49:27):
That's what happened. Wow, Yes, he was sent in Bashlor.
He was out of the State Department. In fact, he
retied from the State Department. And two thousand was a
two twenty twenty one. Oh that's fine, change that two
thousand and one. He betis.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
But there's a deal. Paul. We got to stop right
there because brother Obie's up next, and this is this
is interesting. Listen, we got to pick this up next
time you come on and talk about the friends of
the Congo to pick it up with his brother, this
dude called William swing Find you know, pick it up
the story from there. But I want to thank you
for sharing this information about the Congo. A lot of
people don't know about the Congo. Again, many came on

(50:09):
up people's radar with the Rumble in the Jungle with
with George Foreman and Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Ali did
the ropid dope. They remember that fight and that's what
the people think about the Congo.

Speaker 6 (50:19):
So listen, let's do thiscourage everybody to please go to
our website Friends from the Congo dot org and as
well as free Congo dot org to get updates on
things that may be happening in their community. If they
can then meet folks and ask more questions about what's
going on in the Congo.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Fascinating study. Thank you, Paul, thank you for sharing your
thoughts with us. Man, let's do this again. Let's pick
it up next time.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Okay, by no, thank you.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
It's Paul Pumfrey from the Friends of the Congo and
eight after the top there I was bringing brother Obi.
I know he knows all about the Congo Grand Rising.
Brother Obi, welcome to the program.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
You don't know brother girl.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Mhm, it's good. All is good, brother Obie. How about yourself?
Everything good on your end.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
We wake up to serve. We wake up serving the people.
That's always a good thing. And once again we have
the Kwanmeter Ray Society on with us. We have our
sister Latrees Johnson.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Grand Rising Latrese. We're still learning. He's learning a lot.
He is learning about a guy named William Swing. But
Brother Obi, tell us about the program you have for
Kwame Terrae.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Where there's a Latrese and the Kwanmeter Ray Society are
organized in the Sovereignty Conference. So she's going to give
the backdrop on that, and then we're gonna talk specifically
about what we have going on Sunday with them, the
flame work of that. That's okay, sure, you know, we
always want to promote these young people who are here
working and I'll be a so go ahead, sister Latrice,

(51:59):
begin to talk to the audience about the historic conference
all I have coming up?

Speaker 8 (52:05):
All right, So, the Kwames Ray Society for Africana Studies
is a Pan African work study group that is an
extension of the Afro American Studies Department at Howard University,
and the executive board has designed a four day Sovereignty
Summit beginning Tomorrow, November thirteenth, and it will primarily be

(52:26):
taking place in the Browsing Room of Founders Library. We
have an exciting series of panels and interactive activities that
are grounded in the tradition of black radicalism and Black studies.
So we'll be talking about the theoretical implications of black
studies as well as the practical applications, which of course
is to free our people and to assume political responsibility.

Speaker 6 (52:51):
To detail us.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
On campus. Are people aware? Are you gained a lot
of support from you know about kwameterrae alumless of Howard?
Are people encouraging? Are you seeing a lot of people
signing up to get involved in your project?

Speaker 6 (53:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (53:09):
We have a pretty consistent general body attendance, so maybe
about fifteen to twenty people come to our meetings every week.
When it comes to events, people definitely come out. So
our side of event which took place about two weeks ago,
which we came on here and promoted, we had about
fifty people who came to attend, So I'd say we're
pretty successful.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
What are the major concerns? What are they concerned about
when they talk about especially with Kwameterray. I mean, there's
so much history behind Kwameterra. What are some of the
concerns that these young people are concerned with these days?

Speaker 8 (53:45):
I think people come to CATS wanting to understand more
about our history as a people. I think people come
to our space to read and learn more about how
to let's take the next steps so that we're not
just reinventing the wheel. I think lots of people that
communicate to us are frustrated with the current material conditions
of our people and the way that society is running.

(54:07):
So people just come in search of knowledge for how
to Be's take these next steps.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Do you study Brother Kwamaterray like a class study or
how does that work?

Speaker 8 (54:22):
We do our readings based on like a voting system,
so if someone is interested in reading something, they can
kind of propose the text and then we'll all read
it together. I think the last time we read Kuama Terray,
and it was a couple of semesters ago, but we
read his Sophie Speaks book which has his essays and

(54:43):
speeches inside of it, and of course we make reference
to him as well throughout the year.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
And the reason I asked that question and family just
waking up as twelve after the top that was assistant
Latria how the university part of the Kuamaterray group at
Howard and also Brother Obie's really have a program taking
place there this week. But again thetrese the reason why
I asked that question his book about black power. Uh.
And I was a youngster then when that book kind
of came out and I was trying to read it,

(55:10):
it was so it was difficult, it was it wasn't
easy it wasn't an easy to read. Have you guys
have done that book yet?

Speaker 8 (55:19):
No, you haven't, but it's on my show, so I
can definitely get to it in time.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Yeah yeah, well yeah, when you get to it, let
let us know, because I guess we're kind of young
and didn't understand a lot of the terminology in the book.
But you know, trying to figure out what's what's he
telling us, what's he teaching us? But yeah, that's a
great book after reading it, you know, I got to
read it more than once to understand what was going on.
But yeah, thank you, thank you, and thank you for
what you do on campus, you know, making these young

(55:44):
folks aware, because not all of our young people aware
of our history. I spoke to a person who was
head of the African American Studies department, uh was it
uh in in Florida, University of Central Florida, and I'm
not sure if they haven't it because because a lot
of the students would not, he couldn't get the students
to do that, even to come to those classes, to

(56:06):
join the courses so that he was taking. He says,
these young people today and maybe and maybe you know,
just just for that area that we're not interested in that.
I'm talking about black students, we're not interested in hearing
about that. In fact, I had brother Tony Browner at
the time, and also doctor Welson speaks to the class,
and so it perked up when they came out because
they had heard all their parents if somebody had heard

(56:27):
about both of those folks. So they showed up in
mass for that. But the professor told me that, you know,
usually he's pulling teeth so much so that they want
to combine the African Studies upon with the Hispanic Studies department.
And so it was like a job thing for him
that trying to figure out how to get all these
students because a lot of black students on campus, but
just couldn't get them to come into these courses, take

(56:48):
some of these courses, or you know, hear some of
these discussions. But you say, you don't have that problem.

Speaker 8 (56:52):
Today, right, Yeah, I think Howard is a little bit different.
People are more likely to just have passion for black
people in black history.

Speaker 9 (57:01):
Then.

Speaker 8 (57:01):
Also, like when you take a class of doctor Carr,
when you take a class with doctor Myers, you just
get so enamored with black studies just because of how
they do it. So, yeah, we don't have that issue
at Howard look good.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
So tell us about what you know you've did research
in brother Kwame Trae. What is anything in his background
that stood add to you?

Speaker 8 (57:25):
I know for me personally, I came to know of
Kwame Toe through the slogan Black Power, of course, which
I kind of came across doing my own independent study.
When I was a teenager. I found myself very frustrated
with liberal grassroots organizing, you know, trying to encourage people
to vote or to use you know, the system to

(57:46):
try to win our liberation. And when I heard him speak,
I remember watching some of his lectures and again like
it was just this kind of like spiritual, like emotional
like it just touched me. So that's how I came
to note about commentary.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
And you know, he was one of these smart brothers
as well. You know, he could have gone to any
school Ivy League school because high school went to Bronx
High School of Science. So you got to be real
smart to get in into science back then. Even now
it is, it's one of the top schools in New
York City. That Commentary asked Stope call Michael who went
to but he chose to go to Howard. Do you
guys discuss that?

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (58:27):
Yeah, of course the Commentary Society is named after him
because of his excellent work in the A p r
P and his just development as a Pan African organizer.
So his principles is definitely what the society is rooted
in him. But we study any and all people who
are a part of the black radical tradition.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
All right, did you guys ever talk about a side
of Shakur?

Speaker 6 (58:53):
Of course?

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Yeah, yeah, now's the tribute to her?

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Oh okay, cool, because I've been hearing people now all.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Of a sudden, Remember we came on and promoted that.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
That's true, that's true. You know, it's the same group.
But you know, people are now recognizing her. It's a
shame they should have recognized it before she made a
transition because she did so much work as well. But
it seems like that that happens quite a bit after
you make a transition, people you know, start doing these
tributes to you. But you guys are doing one for
Kwame Terrae. How did that come about? Latrese? Whose idea

(59:29):
was that?

Speaker 8 (59:31):
Well, the event the Sovereignty Summit isn't going to be
honoring Kwame Terrae exactly, that's the name of our group.
But the Sovereignty Summit will be discussing black student movements,
which of course we know about the one at Howard
University that resulted in the Afro American Studies Department. But
this time around, we'll be inviting the organizers from the

(59:54):
nineteen eighty nine takeover of the Administration building to learn
more about their student demain and why they pushed for
a more afrocentric curriculum at Howard. We're also inviting some
black student organizers from North Carolina. These are current undergrad
students who are waging a struggle against their campus officials

(01:00:17):
for better housing. And we also will be having a
panel discussion with Malcolm X Grassroots Movement to talk about
how why it's important to you know, move campus based
organizing past the Ivory Tower to connect with those who
are in the community and those who don't have the
privilege to attend university. And our last two events of

(01:00:41):
social events will be with Halo Green Garden, which is
our campus organization that does food sovereignty. They plant their
own food and they distribute their harvest, which is really beneficial.
We're keeping the people fed, and we will be talking
about why it's important to rely on institutions less which
we're seeing what this government shut down, people not having

(01:01:02):
access to snap benefits. Where do you go for food
when the government isn't giving it to you? And lastly,
we'll be doing this interactive activity. We'll be doing a
Theater of the Oppressed, which is a collective performance where
we'll be trying to stress the importance of cross cultural,
well across ideological lines. How do you organize with people

(01:01:23):
to reach the same objective?

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
All right, literally so and thought right there, and Brother
Obi stay with us. We've got to step aside for
a few moments and we come back to the trees.
Tell us if you know, since you're discussing what took
place on campuses in the sixties, these issues still at
play right now. The students are going to Howard and
let us know what's your thoughts about that family. You
want to join this conversation with sistant latrees from Howard
University and Brother Obi reach out to us at eight

(01:01:46):
hundred four five zero seventy eight to seventy six, and
we take all your phone calls. Next and grand Rising family.
Thanks for rolling with us on this Wednesday morning. It's
a hump day. We're halfway through the work week of
twenty one minutes after the top day out insisted of
l the Trees from Howard univers She and brother Obie
and sister Latrica. They have an event taken place this weekend.
But one of the issues you're going to discuss is

(01:02:06):
what took place on the campuses in the sixties. The
same issues that were there in the sixties are there
there today.

Speaker 8 (01:02:15):
Yeah, I would say so. I think the issues that
were addressed in the sixties and in the eighties, respectively
dealt with the core contradictions with the university in terms
of it exploiting students for tuitions, making partnerships with entities
like the CIA and the FBI, having certain sketchy figures

(01:02:38):
on the boarder trustees. I mean, these are the things
that make the university what it is, which is a
colonial apparatus designed to train black students to one day
be a part of the ruling class. So in order
to do that, I mean, there are certain contraditions that
must take place, and those students who were conscious enough
to see these things went down on and outright resisted

(01:03:02):
these contradictions. They weren't okay with it, even though they
were paying tuition themselves, even though they wanted a degree
from Howard University so that they could go out in
the world and do the work that was important to them.
I think we all have that sentiment, and we all
take issue with that core contradiction. So it's just important
for us to call the university out, I think as

(01:03:26):
it continues to do work that is harmful for our people.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Well, the sixties group they did more than just call
them out. They went and took over buildings and you know,
had sittings.

Speaker 10 (01:03:39):
That's true, Yeah, true.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Do you see that taking place now with the students
on campus today.

Speaker 8 (01:03:46):
I think the issue about today is that Howard has
really ramped up its ability to surveil and control students
and suppress any type of any type of disruption or
you know, kind of ultimately pushback against the university apparatus.
So they've and that's what I'm saying is that they've
learned from these previous takeovers, in the most recent one

(01:04:08):
being in twenty twenty one. So the current climate at
Howard is is a precarious one. And I'll just leave
it at that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Okay. Twenty three minutes after topic, brother Obi tell us
about the famous taking place this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
It's within the framework of this Sovereignty conference, and we
congratulate the Clime to Ray Society for doing it. But
we're going to have on Sunday at four o'clock in
the Digital Auditorium and the Blackburn Center, the Mass Emphasis
Children's History and Theater Company, Serafina Khan and some other

(01:04:47):
children ensembles are going to be having a children's tribute
to Brother Kwame and Brother Kwame transition to the Ancestors
on November fifteenth, nineteen ninety eight. So within the calendar framework,
that's why it's being done this weekend, which ironically November fifteenth,
eighteen eighty five is when the Berlin Conference ended, where

(01:05:09):
Mother Africa was sliced up like a pizza by its
former colonizers, so you have that contrast. So we're gonna
be just but we're not doing the play for a
lot of people who have not seen some of the
documentaries that we've done. For some of the people who
haven't seen the children perform in person doing poetry and
other things of that nature. That's what we're going to

(01:05:31):
be highlighting. So it'll be some music, it will be
some videos of some of our catalog of work, so
people will get a chance to see our work in
connection with the Thomas and Car Center in Burkina Fasso,
with the African Pride Club in South Carolina, United African
Diaspora in Calgary, Alberta, which are all children's vehicles and outlets,

(01:05:57):
and so people will get a chance to see the
role of children's vehicles in this decolonization process. And of
course it's a working tribute to Brother Kwame. Interestingly enough,
there's this interesting connection between Brother Kwame and mass Emthhesis.

(01:06:17):
We picked him up from the airport thirty years ago.
He was coming to the University of Maryland Baltimore County
and the University of Maryland College Park, which were both
the last time he spoke of both of those institutions.
And when he got in the car, we were listening
to a Santana Tate and it was Santana pe homage

(01:06:41):
to Ole Tunja and his classic nineteen sixty four album
Drums of Passion, and so brother Kwame is like, who's
that doing only Tunja song? And we said o Carlo Santana.
So Kwame is teasing us, and he's talking to us
about the importance of returning to the source, quoting Emil
Khar Cabral, the great fighter out of Guinea Bissau and

(01:07:03):
the father their revolutionary struggle. But he's telling us that
art moves more rapidly, touches more people quantitatively than political
work does, even though everything emanates from our culture, and
even though one of our challenges is to make our
cultural and political expressions synonymous.

Speaker 6 (01:07:22):
So he sang that to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Us in the car, and he's talking about the importance
of art, and fifteen minutes later he smacks me on
the shoulder and he said, oh, I'm so sorry, And
I said about what And he said, your father was
doing that when we were babies in struggle. We were
organizing on the political front, but he was already writing

(01:07:46):
plays and short stories and novels. Because before my father
helps get the Black Panther Party off the ground and
ignite the Black Power movement in London, he has a
book called Win Versus Polygamy three years before, which is
transcript into a play, and Britain submits that to the
historic first the world Arts Festival in Dukhar, Senegal in

(01:08:07):
nineteen sixty six, and he's the first African playwright to
have his work showcased on VBC, which create opened the
lane for the Ingougi Watngos and the Willie sel Incas
and the Chenoa champions of the World. So Kwame noong
that history. Then he says to me, when you're gonna
get serious and continue to work, It's in your blood
whether you know it or not. I'm twenty five years

(01:08:29):
old at the time. This is nineteen ninety five, Carl,
and listeners, this is thirty years ago. So who would
know that thirty years later we would have over thirty
plays under our belt and our work has been showcased
by children in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in

(01:08:50):
Burkina Faso in Haiti and highlighted and recognized by the
National Black Theater Festival three years ago in North Carolina.
Maya Angelous started during her tenure at Winston Salem University.
So it's a full circle thing for us. So anytime
that we have the opportunity and one of the most

(01:09:12):
celebrated performances we've done, brother Carl was called same neighborhood
different perspectives the conversation between General Colin Powell and Kwameterrae.
And we performed a play twelve years ago, eleven years
ago for the first time at Howard University, and that
was the first time we ever collaborated with the Kwameterray

(01:09:33):
Society and the African Student Union, the Caribbean Student Union
and the student government all came together and did that
event in an organization which is a staple at how
and Howard Student acted this culture called ubiquity. So anytime
we get a chance to collaborate with the Kwameter Ray Society,

(01:09:53):
especially highly kwanme it's all. So we're going to showcase
on Sunday Is. A few years ago, we had a
ten and thirteen year old do a mixtape in Kwameterray's

(01:10:13):
honor to compliment the Black Power Mixtape which was out
around the same time. And so its brother Kwame's speeches
mixed to jazz, mixed to rhythm and blues mixed to rega.
So we'll be showing a sample of that. It was
about an hour long, so we'll show at least a
few minutes of it. We really want to highlight a

(01:10:34):
lot of the work that the children have done in
mass emphasis, but the attention is on brother Kwame, but
we are also doing this. We're celebrating Asada that will continue,
of course, but we're also celebrating the courageous people of
Venezuela who are resisting US imperialism militarily at this exact moment.

(01:10:56):
So that's what we're doing to contribute to the Sovereignty
conference that the Kwame Terrae Society is doing. And we
will also announce on Howard's campus something which is very
historic in our humble opinion. We have established we're establishing
a memorandum of understanding with the iconic scholar, doctor Carrol

(01:11:18):
Boyce Davies, who is the chair of the Language Arts department.
We've agreed in principle to establish a memorandum of understanding
with them, which means that every time that we perform
on the campus, they will promote the event. And she's
also on the board of the Caribbean Studies Association, which
is the largest umbrella of African teachers who teach African history.

(01:11:42):
Our presence in the Caribbean all over the world. So
it's a very special weekend for us and we're humbled
at the Kwameterra Society is providing us with this golden opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
All right, family, just checking into the voice you here
at twenty nine minutes away from the top abelongs the
brother Obie. You know, I'm an activist in Washington, d C.
And international journalists. Also, he's got sister Latrice with us
from the Kwame Toay Society at Howard University. The AMN
the event this weekend at Howard. We'll tell you more
about that. But Brother Obie, something you said that we

(01:12:15):
having the conversation Brother Kwame, that that struck me when
he said the message can get out better by using
the arts something like that. I'm just paraphrasing what you said.
And I think about today's part the wrapping industry. The
rappers have their message got out. If we could flip
that around, or if we someone had heard what you
told you back then, maybe you wouldn't have the situation

(01:12:37):
we have now with some of our young people.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
It's part that's why we call this the liberation struggle.
It's funny you bring that up because one of the
last conversations I have with Brother Kwame, he had just
come from the Honorable Minister Lewis far Khan's house after
the notorious Vig also known as Big and Smalls was
killed and Mark nineteen ninety seven, a year and a

(01:13:02):
half in ninety six, I'm sorry, not even a year,
a few months after Tupac Shakur was gunned down in
Los Angeles. So Brother Kwame was invited in and they
sat down with an assortment of hip hop artists. Fat
Joe was there, Kamen was there, Ice Cube was there,
to name a few. So Brother Kwame was telling me

(01:13:24):
that he wanted to know what could we do with
the hip hop artists. And ironically, this is six years after,
in my opinion, the best boogie down productions hip hop album, Edutainment,
where karas One has Brother Kwame sampled his voice sampled
on the album three three separate occasions. And so he's

(01:13:46):
talking to us about what can we do? And I
told him that hip hop is a microcosm of the
African community. So at that particular point in time, what
the hip hop artist was doing were voting, and they
were functioning from the understanding their voting was the most
effective outlet of political expression, which if we say it
like that, it can be objectively and honestly discussed, but

(01:14:09):
when we give the impression that voting is the only
outlet work pursuing. And then I started talking to them
about our time during a Millionaire March when we worked
on the National Youth Organizing Committee. In the first meeting
we had, doctor ben Chavis said we were going to eat,
sleep and drink voter registration and we smiled and told
them all of the students who do that work, we're

(01:14:31):
here to do this day of APIs this day of
action and bring the country to a complete stop. That's
our objective for being here, well getting back. So thirteen
years ago we collaborated with matulu O Lubaba, affectionately known
as m one of the internationally acclaimed hip hop group
Dead Presence, and we did three albums called The Battlecraft

(01:14:52):
for Cuban Zimbabwe, and we had an artist from all
over the world, hip hop artists, R and B artist,
reggae artist, the gospel artists, jazz artists who created songs
calling for the lifting of sanctions on Zimbabwe and the
blockade on Cuba. So I thought about brother Kwame because

(01:15:13):
we also him and I were both very fond of
the secretary quote our Mase squitary leader of the Guinea Revolution.
To be part of the African Revolution, it's not enough
to write a revolutionary song. You must fashion the songs
with the people, and the songs will come of themselves
and by themselves, which means that we must have protest artists.
We have art with a message, but we also have

(01:15:34):
art with a protest art representing a cause. And right
now we are working the Kwame Terray Society is assisting
us because we are identifying artists all over the world
who are going to help us put together a tribute
album for Asida Shakur and Pauline Lamoomba as part of
this healthcare project that we're doing to help Cuban doctors

(01:15:56):
in Africa in Assada's honor and in Pauline mumbus honor.
And for the record, the Kwame Terrai Society was the
only student group to speak at that plus conference we
had in July, so they were already working under ASADA's
banner before she passed away. Just in response to what
you said earlier, So we work with hip hop artists,

(01:16:17):
but we do it by coming up with projects they
can collaborate on. And when we first announced the Assada
Shakur Cuba Defense Campaign, Brother Karl Common, Killamite Talib Kwali
and the actor Orlando Jones had a quick private meeting
with us, telling us we could count on them whenever

(01:16:37):
we need them. And someone else we've collaborated with as
of late in our Cuba work has been the hip
hop artist's immortal technique. So we do work with hip
hop artists, we work with gospel artists, we work with
jazz artists. We work with any musicians who want to
lend their voice to our resistance, which history obligates them

(01:16:58):
to do.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
All right, hold up right there, We got to check
the news. It's twenty four minutes away from the top.
Their family just heard the voice of brother Obi. Also
sister Latricea. She's with the Kwame Terra Society on Howard
University's campus. They have an event this weekend and everybody's invited,
and we'll go into that. Latricia, we ain't come back
because we wanted to know if it's going to be
it's going to be online, So I'll let you respond

(01:17:20):
to that when we get back. And also John in
DC has a question for you guys. Family. You two
can join the conversation. Reach out to us at eight
hundred four to five zero seventy eight seventy six and
we'll take you phone calls after the news. Trafficking weather
that's next, and Grand Rising Family sixteen minutes away from
the top. They are on this Wednesday morning. I guess
is a sister. Latrice's sister latreceis from Howard University. She's

(01:17:41):
part of the Kwame Terrae society on the campus and
they're having a sovereignty conference this weekend. Brother Hobi is
with us as well. Before we go back to them,
let me just remind you Cornuple. Later this morning, I'm
gona speak with industrial psychologist doctor Edwin Nichols. He's back
in our classroom. He's going to share his expertise on
the philosophical aspects of cultural DIFFERENCEY. This will answer a

(01:18:01):
lot of questions, you know, when some of us can't
get along, on why we don't get along, and well
he'll be here, so take notes. Also coming up tomorrow
you get hear from Sema tav doctor James McIntosh. Also
clinical psychiatrist doctor Jermy Fox will join us. So if
you are in Baltimore, make sure your radio is locked
in tight on ten ten WLB or if you're in
the DMV family Ron fourteen fifteen w L Sister Latrise.

(01:18:23):
The question we had before we left for the news
update was we wanted to know if it's going to
be streamed this event has taken place of this weekend.

Speaker 8 (01:18:31):
Yes, please have a pen and paper ready because I'm
going to give the information for our live stream. So
we will have certain events, especially the ones in the
evening from five to seven on Thursday, Tomorrow and Friday,
will live stream them on YouTube and likely after the
live stream is over, we can just upload the video.

(01:18:52):
So even subscribe to our YouTube channel as kwame Teray
Society HU ten fifty two. Let's call me to a
society h U ten fifty two to subscribe there you'll
be able to see our content and watch it from
at home.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
All right, we'll let you give that for you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Also, Syster Latrese, Sister Latrese, if you all have a flyer,
we can get it to brother call and one of
the things he does so diligently, this is why we
appreciate him so much. He'll post the flyer on the
Facebook page so it has streaming link on there. He'll
post it on his Facebook page and everybody who wants
to log going to get a chance to check it

(01:19:36):
out off every day that you're having.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
That'd be great for the folks who are on the
road driving the country. This morning at fourteen away from
top Out, that was brother Obie aus I mentioned John's
calling us from DC. He wants to join the discussion.
He's on line one. Grand Rising Johnny or his sister
Latrese and brother Obi.

Speaker 7 (01:19:53):
Grand Rizon. Brother Obie, I just want to say, brother,
we love you. We appreciate you for what you have
done and what you're going to continue to do with
our young people. Brother Quasi had Less Brown on his
show one time and he said something very profound that
the most effective human being in America from his advantage point,

(01:20:18):
was Elijah Muhammad. And what I want to ask you
is we see that you do very excellent with the
culture and you focus on mathematics. When do you ever
think that there is a time And I don't know
if you're not doing it, I'm just trying to raise
the conversation level of it, when do you think it's

(01:20:40):
a time to focus focus on the economic blueprint of
our perspective, meaning land finance devid's credit savings, where there's
a focus on the economic side. In my vantage point,

(01:21:02):
that's what made Elijah Muhammad the person he was, his
economic blueprint. So that's what I just want to add that.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
Qut Okay, that's that's an excellent question, and I want
to thank you for answering it. And you may not know,
but I tought at Muhammad University of Islam for six
years and it's one of the greatest honors I've had
as a teacher of children. And if you know the

(01:21:34):
Honorable Minister Lewis Fara Khan's history, in nineteen eighty two,
our ma secretary, leader of the Guinean Revolution and president
from nineteen fifty eight to nineteen eighty four, he came
to Howard and the Honorable Minister Lewis Farkun introduced him
and he said that all these years people know without
question he's the spiritual incarnation of the most Honorable Elijah Muhammad.

(01:21:57):
But he wanted people to know that Secretaray was his
political father. And I bring him into this because he
said something that we live by. He said, it is
not the adaptation of political action to economic action. On
the contrary, it is the use of economic activities for
political ends. So for us, when it comes to dealing

(01:22:17):
with the question of economics, that represents us just being organized.
The human being is the most important resource. When we
come to organize and we do things of the economic
nature with the economic focus, it's the question of if
it's in a harmony with our political objectives. For example,

(01:22:39):
the fact that every civil and human rights organization at
this historical moment has a CEO component to it. Reverend
Al Sharpton is not the president of the National Action
Network only he is also the CEO. Whoever leaves the
National Council of Negro Women, they're also the CEO INAAC.
The same thing Urban League, same thing. That means that

(01:23:01):
they're depending on corporate dollars to advance their political programs.
Where if you ask most people about the NAACP, they
will tell you the most effective contribution they've ever made
was the Brown versus Board of Education case. And when
they did that, Thurvid Marshall and Oliver Hall and Constance
Baker Martley were going around sleeping on our people's couches.

(01:23:23):
So when we finance our organizations and finance our resistance,
Our resistance intensifies and our resistance has the best results.
So that's one thing we remember. Over twenty years ago,
Kochi Anan reaches out to Coma Danta Fidel Castro and
when the Millennium Fund was created to deal with HIV

(01:23:46):
AIDS and tuberculosis on the African continent. So Kofi Anane
reaches out to common doctor Fidel Castro and says, does
Cuba have any money to contribute to the event, to
that institution, and he says, you Knowumber one, we're socialists
number two under a blockade. But if the money was
ever made available, we would send four thousand of our

(01:24:09):
best HIV AIDS doctors, researchers and specialists and they would
remain in Africa until our stuff was until HIV AIDS
was eradicated. A few years ago, Brother Carl had us
on with Reverend Willie Wilson and we were dealing with
the cyclone that ravage Zimbabwe, Malawi and Mozambique. You may

(01:24:33):
remember that. And at Willie Wilson's church we raised five
thousand dollars in forty five minutes and we were saying
to ourselves, reaches the bachs, not our presbateritarian churches, not
our Catholic churches, not our Lutheran churches. What if our

(01:24:54):
Baptist churches every month gave five thousand dollars a piece
towards humanitarian crisis in Africa? It would end overnight and
George Bush wouldn't be in Africa parading as a born
again humanitarian, where the largest highway in Ghana is named
after him. So for us, it's a question of and

(01:25:15):
so that, but it let us know that it's something
we could do every month, and not only would we
end the humanitarian crisis on the African continent, we would
make sure DC no longer is the face of food
insecurity in the United States, where one out of five
children go to bed without food, which is why we
have a history class and feed children every month, and

(01:25:36):
we financed that ourselves. We don't have any grant so
anything like that, And we know that some of our
organizations there's a distinction between those who'd organized to remain
grant eligible and those who organized to be historically responsible.
So once again, economic activities for political ends. I hope
I answered your question, and I purposely wanted to get

(01:25:57):
some concrete examples of how we can all.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Right, seving away from the top. I want to go
back to Laterresa from Howard as she's part of the
Quameter Ray Society. Laterreesa give us some more information about
this the Sovereignty Conference. What time does it start? And
can folks will listen to us in the DMV or
folks from Baltimore or I want to roll down to
the district, can they do so?

Speaker 8 (01:26:21):
Yeah, anyone is able to access the you to to
watch the live stream. Our events are going to be
all day long. So tomorrow at ten thirty will have
a drum circle, At eleven we'll have a lecture by
doctor Myers, two thirty will be around table discussion and
five pm will be the nineteen eighty nine Howard Takeover
Student Organizer panel. And it's the same structure in terms

(01:26:45):
of time the next day. Yeah, but ten thirty event,
eleven event, two thirty event and five pm event?

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Was it?

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
Let me get this strang is this to Our event
is the last one and so La Trees our event
on Sunday is the last one. Right that's part of responsible.

Speaker 8 (01:27:02):
From five to seven and.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Brother Obi with your Evan consists of one.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
It is a children's tribute to Kwame Terrae once again. Yes,
So you will see a variety of different things that
Mass Emphasis has done throughout the years. We'll have some
children there alive. We'll have some of our documentaries done.
People who never saw our work with the children in Bikina,
Fasso at the Thomas and Car Center, the United African

(01:27:32):
Diaspora in Canada, the African Pride Club, they will see that.
People who've never seen the Kwame Terray mixtape, since we're
honoring him that weekend, they will get a chance to
see that and an additional assortment of things we've done.
The iconic drum and dancing ensemble, Farrapina Khan is supposed
to be there, and we have some other surprises. So

(01:27:55):
doors open at four point thirty and we'll begin at
five o'clock and people are going to really enjoy that event.
And once again, we're so humble that the kwameter Ray
Society is including us in there. So four point thirty
in the Blackburn Center in the Digital Auditorium. When you
come into the Blackburn Center, you make that first left,

(01:28:18):
you go to the back hallway. The Digital Auditorium is
right there. That's where we will be on Sunday and
it will be a children's artistic tribute to the Pan
African and Black powered gigantic icon Kwame Chakrature formerly known
as Stokely Carmichael, who transitioned November fifteenth, nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Gotcha five away from the top letter. You said, what
year are you in school and what's your major and
what are your plans when you graduate.

Speaker 8 (01:28:48):
I'm a senior Afro American Studies major and I plan
to go to grad school after I graduate's.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
You know, because I told the story about the students
at the University Central Florida, and that's one of the
things I said that what am I doing with a
degree in African American studies? They couldn't figure out, say
I can't make money with this? Is that what they're
telling me, So I want to get your reaction to
that too. This is where the path that you're taking.
But we got to step aside and get caught up
in the ladies' trafficking weather in our different cities. It's
four minutes away from the top. They are family, just

(01:29:18):
checking in and sister of Latreci's part of the Equamtory
Society at Howard University. They're having a sovereignty conference this
weekend and also Brother Obi is going to be involved
in they'll tell us more about that when we get back.
If you want to join this conversation, they'll hit us
up at eight hundred and four to five zero seventy
eight seventy six and we'll take your phone calls after
the Traffic and Weather Together and grind rising family. Thanks
are staying with us on this Wednesday morning. It's a

(01:29:38):
hunt day. That means we're halfway through the work week.
I guess right now. Sister Latresa, she goes to Howard University.
She's part of the Quomitory Society. And also Brother Obi
is with us to have an event this weekend. And
Latrecea's major in as she mentioned before we left for
the Traffic and Weather updated in African American Studies or
Black Studies at whatever. It's basically the same thing. But

(01:30:00):
and I told her that some of the students that
at the University of Central Florida back in the day
didn't want to do that as a major because they
couldn't make any money in it. Did you ever get
to any of that pushback for Literresea anybody, your family,
friends and asking why you're majoring in African American studies.

Speaker 8 (01:30:17):
Well, my family's very supportive with me doing Black studies.
So not for my family, but I definitely wondered my
own self, you know, as I made this decision. But ultimately,
I'm not really trying to be rich. I'm not really
trying to make a whole lot of money. I just,
you know, of course, want enough to have a roof

(01:30:38):
over my head and food on the table, and I
do think that a degree in Black studies can give
you that. But that is also why I'm deciding to
go for a graduate degree and eventually a PhD, because
I know that it will allow me to have, you know,
a higher paying salary. But I'm also just interested in

(01:31:00):
Black studies, Like it's just my passion. I'd rather do
something for the rest of my life, where like my
job doesn't really feel like work. It's just something that
I'm I just am interested in, so we.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
Go for it. I love that, of course that's your passion,
Go ahead and snatch it, Go ahead and do it. Yeah,
go get that PhD. Work on that, because I see
that you have the right spirits and you can pass
that on to some of our young people. Brother, O
be before we let you guys go, tell us again
that the schedule that's going to take place this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
She LATREESA you could go over to schedule all the
way up into law event and I'll just highlight eyes
in particular.

Speaker 8 (01:31:40):
Okay, I'm going to read off every line. So Tomorrow Thursday,
beginning at ten thirty we have a drum circle on
the yard. At from eleven am to one pm, we
have a brief history of the Black Student Movement with
doctor Joshua Myers. From two thirty to four thirty pm Thursday,
we have a Black Student or Organizer round table with

(01:32:01):
comrades based in North Carolina, Boston, and the DMB. Tomorrow
from five to seven pm, we have the nineteen eighty
nine Howard Takeover panel with the eighty nine Direct Action Organizers.
Friday the fourteenth, at ten thirty am, we have a
drum circle on the yard. Then at eleven am to
one pm, we have a panel titled Past the Ivory Tower,

(01:32:25):
Integrating Campus and Community based Organizing with Malcolm X Grassroots Movement.
From two thirty to four thirty pm, we have a
panel discussing food, sovereignty and relying on institutions plus with
Hu Halo Green Garden. From five to seven pm on Friday,
we have a Theater of the Oppressed, which is a
collective performance that is not taking place in the Browsing

(01:32:46):
Room like the other events. It's in Douglas Hall, Room
one twenty. On Saturday mornings, we have a Deep Study
event which is something that has been occurring all semester,
but we'll be discussed in chapters three and four from
a Black Study by Joshua Myers that will be taking
place in the Moreland Reading Room their founders. Then Sunday
to sixteenth, from five to seven we have the Mass

(01:33:08):
Eventist Children's History and Theater Company performing in the Digital
Auditorium in Blackburn.

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
That and that's how humble contribution to this fantastic event.
So on Sunday doors open in four point thirty. But
for all people in the DMV area that hear us,
come on here, see us in the streets and thank us.
But have never seen these children, please come and watch
them and think about how many children you can get

(01:33:43):
involved in mass emphasis. Because as we were subjected to
fascist Gustapo occupation by the National Guard which was supposed
to be in the words of the imperialist and the oppressor,
their justification for the chaos in our community. The reality

(01:34:05):
of the situation is we need to collectively come together
and support the outlets, especially the ones that are focused
on uplifting and empowering the African child. Not in response
to what they were doing. They're doing, but it's our
historical responsibility to do just that. So thank you very much,

(01:34:29):
brother Carl. It's always a pleasure to get on here
and share the little bit we know and the little
bit we do with so many of our people. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
All right, sits in literacy before you go, can you
give us the website again?

Speaker 8 (01:34:42):
Yes, on YouTube. It's going to be Quameter Ray Society.

Speaker 6 (01:34:47):
HU one zero five to two.

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
One more time.

Speaker 8 (01:34:54):
Quameterrat Society HU one zero five two family.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
My sister of Latrese from Howard University. She's part of
the Qualmetory Society having their Sovereignty conference this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
We're brother is the president oh society.

Speaker 1 (01:35:13):
Yeah, let me give you some respect on her name,
grandising this president. Thank you for sharing your information with
us this morning. Thank you, Lortis. All right, thank you,
thank you all right, family, eight after the top there,
Let's bring it now Doctor Edwin Nichols. Doctor Nichols is
an industrial psychologist. Grant rising, Doctor Nichols, Welcome back to

(01:35:34):
the program.

Speaker 10 (01:35:37):
Warning, how are you?

Speaker 1 (01:35:38):
We're good. We're still learning though, I know we're going
to learn a lot today from you. Family. You got
some friends out there, Tell them to turn on the
radio to tell me that doctor Edward Nichols is on
the radio. You talk about You're going to share his
expertise on the philosophical aspects of cultural differences. You know,
we're not all monolith think we're different, and he's going
to explain why and how the differences and how we

(01:35:59):
can celebrate our different as well. But first I got
to ask you, doctor Nichols, what is an industrial psychologist.

Speaker 10 (01:36:06):
Well, I'm a combination of the clinical and industrial. The
industrial psychologist is now called organizational psychologists. These are psychologists
that take their knowledge of human behavior into corporations and
into executive offices. And we can look at the structure

(01:36:30):
of an organization to see whether it's functional or dysfunctional
by various means. That is, how it may be something
as simple as how one department interacts with another, how
many paper transactions are there? Or sometimes what I use?

(01:36:51):
Kind of old fashion, but a lot of fun. I
have different colors of string, and for all the different
departments in a second words, for you'd have department of
whatever it is, and in that department you might have
ten sections. And for each of those ten sections, I
give a different colored string, and I say, in order

(01:37:15):
to get the approval of your section, to whom do
you have to give this report? To get the approval? Well,
as the string comes only to one person, If all
those ten strings are coming to one person for approval,
that tells you that that's a dysfunctional organization because one

(01:37:37):
person can be responsible for all ten of those or
those things. So it says, as a leader of that department,
you are not investing time and energy and making sure
that each of those ten individuals can do the work,
do it properly, and have to supervise them so that

(01:38:01):
when they turn in a report, it's correct, it's ready,
it's ready to use.

Speaker 6 (01:38:07):
You don't have to.

Speaker 10 (01:38:08):
Now, you can spot check from time to time, but
you don't have to spend your time reviewing all ten
and checking all ten of the reports. So that's one
of the type of functions that we do. In terms
of the structure of organization itself, there are also things
such as how do groups interact with each other? And

(01:38:35):
it's very important to see that sometimes groups of people
within in a set. That's the work that I do,
they have to work together. And so you have women,
and you have men, and you have different ethnic groups
and different language groups all working together. So they constitute

(01:38:56):
a multi ethnic, pluralistic, and linguistically diverse organizational structure or team.
And in order for them to work efficiently together, they
have to understand that they will see a problem differently,
they will determine how to resolve it differently, and then

(01:39:17):
they will evaluate whether the problem, whether the problem has
been solved or not solved. So in order to do that,
we know that teams that are are pluralistic, that is,
teams that have women, men, different ethnic groups all working
together are more efficient and more creative than the traditional

(01:39:43):
all white male team. So that's another aspect of the
work that I do. And then the final thing is
executive coaching. Sometimes you have a person that has been
put into a position as an executive coach. They're at
the very top and their behavior. Their personal behavior is

(01:40:06):
disruptive to how they get along with the other ten
sections that they're responsible for. They have ten departments they're
responsible for, and there's always some disagreement between that person
and the other people. It can be that they feel

(01:40:27):
that they're the only one that can give the right answer,
and therefore, if it isn't my answer, it's wrong. It
can be that they're having personal problems like a divorce
or something like that at home, and it's interfering with
their ability to work efficiently with their ten groups within
the organization or ten departments. And sometimes it's that the

(01:40:51):
ten departments really just don't like that person and they
do everything they can do to undercut that person. So
the job then of the in the executive coaching is
to help this person to make a differential awareness.

Speaker 11 (01:41:11):
Is it me?

Speaker 6 (01:41:11):
Is it then?

Speaker 10 (01:41:13):
Or what can the two of us do together to
improve our way of doing things. Sometimes it's communication skills.
Some people have poor communication skills. They don't communicate very well.
They just simply they do it and they For an example,

(01:41:33):
in the black community, we say as a parent, we
say I told you to do it, and don't give
me no back.

Speaker 11 (01:41:40):
Talk.

Speaker 10 (01:41:42):
Well, that's not two way communication, that's well a communication,
but that's how we're trained as black children. You don't
talk back to your parents. My opinion is you might
get slept into tomorrow. But in organizations you have to
do differently. And of course, as children get older within

(01:42:02):
the black family, they can tactfully voice their opinion about something.
But still you don't cross that line being defiant against
your parents. So I hope that gives you an idea
of what organizational psychology is previously called industrial. See I'm

(01:42:23):
so old that it was called industrial when I got
my degree, and then subsequently maybe ten to fifteen years later,
they changed it to organizational psychology.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
Family fourteen after top they have the voice. You hear
that as a doctor Edwin Nichols. He is a psychologist,
doctor Nichols. So this attack on di does does that
go counter to what you teach or what you help.

Speaker 10 (01:42:47):
Yes, you know what would be helpful? If you can
call me on the landline, then I can hear you better.

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
Okay, I'll tell you what we're coming up on a
break real soon and we'll do that. We'll switch over.
Family just joined us. I guess is doctor Edward Nichols.
As he mentioned, he's industrial psychonscious as part of the job.
I was just fascinating to hear how he does, you know,
how they really how he works, how he breaks it down.
And also he's going to share his expertise on how

(01:43:16):
the philosophical aspects of cultural differences because now we're in
an era where they don't want de I as you mentioned,
they want a homogeneized set of folks who don't don't
of them don't look like us to run the country
because you know, they think that we're somehow we're in
fearor because of that colorasque game, we're not smart enough
to do what we do and we need a help
in hand, or we're not educationally enough. It's enough to

(01:43:40):
have the jobs that we have, and that's why there's
attack on de I tell what, we'll take the break
that doctor Nichols when we come back. Phil and DC
also has a question for you family our conversation.

Speaker 10 (01:43:50):
Yes, sir, do you do have the landline number.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
Yeah, I'll give it to Kevin. I'll give it the
landline knowing to Kevin and he'll call you sixteen Off
to the top of our family, Doctor Nichol's going to
change his phone and when we come back, you can
speak to him at eight hundred four or five zero
seventy eight seventy six and will take you calls next
and Grant Rising family twenty minutes after the top there
with our guest, doctor Edward Nichols is psychoscious and he

(01:44:13):
told us what he does, some of the work that
he does. And my question to him before we left
the break, was this call for the end of DII
that goes against what you teach or what you get involved.
Am I correctly saying that, doctor Nichols?

Speaker 12 (01:44:27):
Yes, yes, yes, very much. Let's develop why that's important. Diversity,
equity and inclusion is the only way that we can
function as a nation and really take advantage of being

(01:44:49):
a multi ethnic, pluralistic, and linguistically diverse society. When we
cut out different people, we lose. So what I'm going
to do is I'm going to develop for you, first
of all, why. Scott Page, the University of Michigan professor,

(01:45:15):
back in two thousand and seven somewhere in there, wrote
a book called The Difference, How the Power of Diversity
creates a better group. Now he has you just go
online and look for doctor Scott E. Page, University of Michigan,
and you will see lectures that he gives. And these

(01:45:38):
lectures say to you that there are heterogeneous groups and
homogeneous groups. The tradition in this country has been the
homogeneous group, all white male in corporate positions making decisions

(01:45:59):
about everything. Now they get started quickly on the task,
and that's because they all share the same epistemology, axiology,
and logic system. And we'll go into that in a moment.
But he also found that you have teams that are

(01:46:22):
comprised of women and men and minorities, and people speak
different languages or English is not their first language. And
when he saw all that, it took a while for
those teams to get started, and in order to get started,
they had to work out some things. But once they

(01:46:43):
got started, they were more creative and more productive. Be
those are the two words in business and money. They
were more creative, they can get you a new product,
and more productive. We can produce it faster than the
all white male team. The homogeneous team. Organizational structure has

(01:47:10):
changed from a vertical and hierarchical organizational structure too flat
and horizontal. You'll get that in your mind, vertical and hierarchical.
Step one, step two on top, step three on top
of that, step four, step four, all these steps on
top of each other. Okay, So that's a vertical and

(01:47:33):
hierarchical structure, and the very top is the boss of
the whole organization, and the horizontal n flat says, all
those steps are reduced to maybe two, maybe three. You
got a top loss and you have an intermediate boss,

(01:47:56):
and that boss is responsible for one, two, three, four,
five teams. That's horizontal and flat. So it means, let
me give you an example. I was at GS fifteen
when I was working with the government, well, and I
had two fourteens working under me and some twelves and

(01:48:18):
what have you. Well, now with the system is, if
I'm the GS fifteen, I don't have any fourteens anymore,
and I may not even have any thirteen, but I
will have us maybe four or five sections of GS
twelve that I'm responsible for. So it has moved from
vertical and hierarchical where you had the teams, then you

(01:48:42):
had the thirteens over them, and then you had the
fourteens over them, and then you had Nicolas fifteen over
it all. Well, that's vertical and hierarchical. That's changed. They
cut out all those middle places. That has dropped down
to one person's responsible for more teams. Now workers must
possess the skills in a multi multi area of experience,

(01:49:07):
enabling to transition across the workplace matrix. Now what does
that mean. It means that you work on a team
until you get a project done. When the project is done,
your team is disbursed. Let's say that again, based on

(01:49:31):
the skills that you have in your organization and your company,
there is an announcement we need this product or this
new team to come and do this one specific thing.
We want you to do project A. Well, you have

(01:49:52):
a pool of people in the company that have similar skills,
same skills, different skills, and the goal is to get
on one of those teams. Because if you can't get
on a team after a month in an organization, they
dropped you from the organization. Go through that again. The

(01:50:17):
way this structure is based. It says we have different
projects that we have to get out to get our money,
and in order to do project A, we need skills one, two, three,
four five. We have a pool of people that can
do the work. But in that pool of people, they're

(01:50:39):
all competing to get one of those jobs. So if
I have skill three and go or I have a
better chance of getting on getting on that team. I
got two of the skills that they need. Now that's

(01:51:03):
the new system it is. You've got a pool of
people that can do the work. You've got projects coming
in that require people to do the work, and you
have to hustle to get on one of those teams.
So team membership is the unit of production workers with
specific skills necessary to meet the requirements of the new project.

(01:51:27):
Are as symbol from across the workplace. Now that's across
the workplace, and the word that they use in there
is matrix. That's the word they use for the whole workplace.
And team is forum going across the matrix. So the
body of people that you have that are available to

(01:51:48):
do the job, that is the matrix that you run
back and forth across the matrix define the people that
you need to do those jobs, and that you pick
out these people and you form a team to complete
a specific project. For an individual to say on a team,

(01:52:14):
I've done my part, that's no longer acceptable because if
the team fails. Everybody failed, and when your team fails,
you lose that job. You go back to that big pool.
So people used to say, well, I've done my job,
not teams. Team's got to get it done. So when

(01:52:36):
we talk about DEI, if you don't have people that
can do those different jobs and you don't, you just
sit there and talk about what I did, and you
don't work together so that everybody did, then you lose.
Your team loses, and you lose your job. You go
back into the big pool to try to think, find

(01:52:58):
yourself a new job. And if people always see that
you're the only person that just comes out and do it.
I did my power, and you don't work for the
team growth, you won't be chosen to work on somebody
else's team. Now, upon completion of project, the team is dissolved.
We're used to working with the same group of people

(01:53:18):
for twenty or thirty years that ain't working no more.
Come together, you solve a problem, and you disperse. Team
members must search for search the workplace matrix that's that
pool at the bottom, to find a new project that
most closely fits their skill, because sometimes they got something

(01:53:39):
up there. You don't have one hundred percent of that skill,
but you have enough of it that you can learn
the parts that you don't know. So the worker must
dwarph this vocabulary. You need to learn now morphing from
one skill to another to accommodate the requirements of the

(01:54:02):
new project. What does morphing mean? Well, you ask your
youngest child or your grandchild. When the monster from out
of space comes into the into the universe, into the earth,
in order to disguise themselves so that you don't know
that they're the monster, they morph. It's like walking through

(01:54:26):
a membrane, or they walk across a line and electrically
the line and their change from looking like the monster
from out of space into the very common person that
you see in front of you, mister Joes. So that's morphing.
Now that that's by that to the skill. You have

(01:54:50):
a skill in this due project that you don't have
all the parts to but in order to get that job,
you have most of them. So you have to then morph,
which means you need to learn those skills as fast
as you can. Now, where do you get the most
current skill? Well, I got my degree, you know, thirty

(01:55:12):
years ago. Twenty years ago, I don't know.

Speaker 13 (01:55:14):
I don't know this, all these new things, all this
new technology, and they're asking me can I do so
and so on the computer? And I'm all confused, and
the reports have to be on that platform, and oh
my goodness. You go to the community college, doing your college,
they'll offer a course. Okay, that's where you go keep

(01:55:38):
your skills. So I can sing, I am an expert
with word perfect, I mean with with Microsoft word or
two thousand and five. Now what good is Nichols?

Speaker 12 (01:56:02):
Even though I'm an expert, I know everything about Microsoft
two thousand five. A young person coming out of college
does twenty twenty four twenty five experts. Who's going to
be a competition because he can do things for twenty

(01:56:25):
twenty five in one or two strokes that even if
I could, with the software that I had, do what
he does, it would take me hours. So we have
to keep our currents are skilled currents. And your community

(01:56:46):
college is give projects there. You're not going there for
a degree. You're going there to do a project to
learn the project. That's what they have classes. Now if
they don't, then you have all of these colleges around
here and you have young people specializing in these different
these different categories. You hire one of those students but

(01:57:10):
tutor you. They'll come to your house and sit down
and tutor you, and you give them a fee. Okay,
you can do twenty five dollars an hour, some of
them you can do fifty dollars an hour. But just
think what you're getting with that private tutorial in that
apple and they will sit there and work with you

(01:57:30):
until you do it. Wrote you can do it that
quickly and you understand all the aspects of it. But
don't talk about well, I don't know what I can
do it. I don't know how to do it. Whether
you call one of those students, they'll come. They specialize
in communication skills or whatever it is that you need,
and they'll come and they will work with you and
you'll get it. Ours University, said this young woman talking

(01:57:53):
from Howard University. You've got brilliant young students over there,
and they is hungry. Not just hungry, they is hungry
and he needs money extra thing. Oh, you can get
them as young people to do the toutory all right now.
Upon completion of the project, the team is dissolved, and
this is where you have to morph into another team. Now,

(01:58:16):
if you fail, you'll be accepted into another team and
morph with those new sets is killed. Then you go
back into the pool at the bottom and hope that
you can get on another team, and they generally give
you thirty days to be in that pool. If you
haven't gotten something in thirty days, you are dismissed from

(01:58:38):
that job. So what I've been working with them to
for fifteen years, Well, if you don't have the most
current skills, you're not worth anything to them. So you've
got to go. And that's the painful part because people say, well,
I've worked with them, I was loyal, I was Well,
this system that we're working with today doesn't care. They

(01:59:02):
only want the product. Now, if team membership is your
survival skill, then team composition is crucial who is on
that team And of course that's when we go to
Scott's Page's work. Do you want to be on an

(01:59:24):
all white male team you want them to lead you? No,
you want a multi pluralist and linguistically diverse team okay
to work with you. And those diverse teams are more
creative and more productive. And that Scott Page's work, the
different poland how the power of diversity creeds bet are

(01:59:47):
work groups two thousand and seven. Now the industrial psychologist
wants to know why the teams differ in their ability
to organize and get started quicker, and why the diverse
teams are more creative and productive. And that's when you
go into Nichols. That's when I use my axiology systemology.

(02:00:12):
That's when I talk about why that diverse team is better.
Okany is that Let's have some comments or questions?

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
All right? Twenty four way for the Top, Pheel has
a question for you. He's online one car from DC
Grand Rising fail your question for.

Speaker 14 (02:00:31):
Doctor Nichols, Hey, Grand Rising, Carls Grand Rising, Doctor Nichols, Hey,
I just want to say thank you very much for
the for the for the rules that you laid out
for for career in twenty twenty five real The question

(02:00:52):
I have is what have you found racism or the
idea of white over over non white the impact of
that on teams and organizations and their ability to work
together and be productive.

Speaker 6 (02:01:13):
Okay, hope that thought.

Speaker 1 (02:01:14):
Ry at Dodtor Nichols. We've got to take a short
break and Phil, thank you for that question. Twenty four
minutes away from the Top the so much, you've got
to step aside for a few moments. We come back
doctor Nichols answer Phil's question and also answer a question
if you have one. You can reach us at eight
hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll
take your phone calls next and Grand Rising family, thanks
for rolling with us on this Wednesday morning with our
guest doctor Edward Nichols. Doctor Nichols is discussing discussing the

(02:01:38):
aspects of cultural differences. He said, it's a good thing,
you know, there's been an attack on DEI. Before we go
back to doctor Nichols and they'll respond to Phil's question.
Just warring mind you tomorrow coming up with Speak with
Simo Taps doctor James McIntosh and also clinical psychologist doctor
Jeromy Fox is going to be here as well. Dtr
Fox from his best selling workbook Addicted to White The
Oppressed in League where the oppressor are shamed, based the

(02:02:00):
lines that I'll be here tomorrows. So if you are
in Baltimore, make sure your radios locked in on ten
ten WLB, or if you're in the DMV or on
fourteen fifty WL Hi doctor Nichols. I'll let you respond
to Phil's question, Okay.

Speaker 12 (02:02:15):
I do a lot of work with organizations. Actually I
go physically out and I have workshops, and in the workshops,
I'm trying to get at the very point that you
were talking about. So I say, I have two white men,
stand up, and I say to one of them, the

(02:02:36):
two of you went to high school together. You were
on the track team together, the football team together. You
went to college. You were both roommates in college together.
You were in the same fratornity together. You dated girls
that were sorority sisters. You married, you were investment in

(02:02:59):
each other's wedding, you were the godfather to each other's children.
And one of them is a little smarter than the other.
So one A is the smart one and B is
the one that's not too bright. But as A enters
into the organization and begins to move up, he brings
B into the organization. And as A moves up be followed,

(02:03:22):
a moves up be followed. But A sometimes has to
do some of the work for B because B is
not not rep too tight. Okay, but he's good, but
he's just not able to do everything too well. Now
the new organizational structure comes into B. Okay, you have

(02:03:45):
to work on team, and your team has to be
number one. So the bright one is going to move up,
but he knows that his best friend in all the
world B is not able to do the work it
is necessary. Yeah, hem a member, this job. Now over here,

(02:04:11):
we have this black woman. And you know that black
women are considered to be at the bottom of the barrel,
even though there is very often the best educated, most educated,
and everything else. And the question is, mister girl has
all of the qualification and she can more than do

(02:04:32):
the work, she can make him look good. Now, I
ask team member, as these two white men are standing up,
and I got a sister standing over in the corner,
and I asked this teamate member. I say, teammate, you
know that if the work isn't done like it's supposed

(02:04:54):
to be done, you're gonna lose your job. Now, whom
are you going to take with you on this new project?
And he says the black woman. I say, now, wait
a minute, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.
You mean to tell me that you're going to choose
this black woman over your friend that has been with

(02:05:15):
you from high school, you were in college together, your
best friends. You godfather, I go through all that litany
and he says, no, I'm choosing her. Now. That's when
you have real equity, diversity, and conclusion. And we were

(02:05:40):
getting to that. And the reason is that our society
is confronting globalization. So globalization has compelled us to adapt
a new organizational structure. See that vertical hierarchical structure. He
could keep pulling him up, he could keep pulling b

(02:06:01):
up right on up the chain. But with this new
organizational structure that has gone from vertical hierarchical to horizontal
and flat, ain't o hiding place on the team. When
it comes your turn to do what you got to do,
you've got to be able to do it. And if
you can't do it, then the team failed. Remember I
told you you can't talk about a can't talk about

(02:06:24):
I did my powert Obe didn't do Betpark. So as
far as they're concerned, the team failed and he could
lose his job his job. So that is why that
whole process is being attacked because the structure that made

(02:06:46):
the inadequate white male continue to be pulled up by
the adequate white male is now destroyed by the new
structure from vertical and hierarchical organizations to horizontal and flat.
I hope that answers the question.

Speaker 1 (02:07:05):
All right. Thirteen away from the topic, Brother College is
checking in from Waldorfie's online too as a question for you.
Grand Rising brother calls you're on with doctor.

Speaker 15 (02:07:13):
Nichols, Grand Rising, Grand Rising, My dear brothers and doctor Nichols.
I appreciate that deep, deep explanation. I want to add
an addendum to that, diversity and equity inclusion. That's what
we call in the European the Cronus complex, which I

(02:07:34):
hope you're familiar with, and it seems to prevail that.
For example, when you have a professor by the Naval
Arnold Tornbee, considered to be the master of history, playing
that when we classify mankind by color, the only one
of the primary races that had not made a creative
contribution to anyone about twenty one civilizations is the black race.

(02:07:57):
And he goes on to say within the first six
thousand years, the black race has not helped create any civilization.
But then follow up on that, Murray and Hearnstein and
the Bell Bell curve says that the black brain is
inferior and this seems to prevail throughout the European dynamic.

(02:08:20):
Can you can you give me an explanation of how
we overcome that that theme that seems to prevail in
that European dynamic when we go out there to uh,
to go out into into the business world and to
try to to try to move forward in this society
to fulfill our aspirations. I'll take my answer off unless.

Speaker 12 (02:08:44):
You have a question. All right. In the the last
part of the eighteen century, seventeen something in through there,
you had people in the middle of h and the
middle of Europe trying to develop a way to justify

(02:09:09):
the colonialization of Africa. Okay, you had this mark you
opinion when we go out there too.

Speaker 1 (02:09:24):
All right, Kevin, can you drop a line too for us?

Speaker 3 (02:09:27):
Kevin?

Speaker 1 (02:09:27):
Thank you?

Speaker 7 (02:09:29):
What?

Speaker 12 (02:09:29):
Oh? Okay? So what you had was you had that,
you had the Conference of Berlin, and that divided Africa
into different places. And now you've got to but before that,
you had slavery. Okay, the Portuguese bringing slaves into Brazil,
and the Spanish into the the New World, and then

(02:09:50):
the British interview into America and so on. You have
to justify that you have people who are very religious,
and at that time, particularly in Catholicism, is the if
the priest did not give you absolution, you would die
and go to Hell. And people were very, very very

(02:10:12):
conscious of hell and its ramification. So how can you
treat your brother in this way unless he's not really human?
So what you have to do is you have to
say that in the history of mankind, this group of

(02:10:35):
people have not been able to produce anything. So therefore
they are not as intelligent, as as motivated, as as
christian as, and therefore they are not human. They are

(02:10:57):
a little less than They're like a small child that
has to be disciplined to have some First of all,
we've got to teach them how to work, all right, Now,
that's that's the that's the justification for all that craziness

(02:11:17):
that went on. And if you look to see who
some of these writers are in they lived in one
part of Germany and they never left Germany. They never
saw anybody, any anybody and other white people can make
all these decisions about what they heard or what they
have read from people who travel. That's how they did
the work. That's one of the examples of that. No,

(02:11:41):
he's not the bad guy. He did some pretty good things,
but he did some bad things too. He wrote what
he saw everybody else writing, which is these these racists
are in are not period. What we have to do
is we have to teach our own history. If we
teach their own history, then we know that the foundations

(02:12:03):
of the society is the foundation of Greek side in
the civilization of Europe is built upon the reality of
chemic and the Chinetics signe all right now, how difficult
is it for them today to deny all this history

(02:12:26):
that you constantly see. You see things on television that
talk about the structures within Africa and the belief systems
and all these things, and they're telling you that these
are very smart people, very very smart. And you are
in class with somebody that's not looking like you and
they're very smart too. So you're getting too much cognitive dissonance.

(02:12:51):
So what does the system now have to do? Well,
it'ller burned the book written by you and books that
did not conform to what he wanted. Today in this country,
they have pulled those books off the library shelves. They
are not to be read, and they have substituted them
with what they want if you pick up a textbook

(02:13:15):
from Texas. Now, remember the Texas buys of all France.
So in Texas in their printing of books, print high
school textbooks. Then a small state like Rhode Island, or
a state with a very poor population, a very limited

(02:13:35):
population like North and South Dakota and Iowa, they don't
have the money to print their own textbooks, so they
buy the textbooks from Texas. Now, what does Texas say
about slavery. Well, we don't want to upset white children
and make them feel guilty and start crying. So we

(02:13:58):
give a picture of a black man on a ship,
is a slave ship arriving, and he is not for
the loincloth. He is dressed with a suit, a coat
and a shirt, trousers and a hat, and he is

(02:14:21):
shaking hand with a slave owner. And he is now
indenturing himself. He becomes an indentured servant. That is, I
have come here to pay for my passage coming here,
and I've also come here to learn things from you.

(02:14:45):
And what are they learning agriculture? They're learning how to fire.
That's what is in the textbook of a text book
of Texas today. On one of two pages or a
half page on slavery. So the perception of children is

(02:15:06):
the perpetuation of that idea that black people didn't know anything.
You just arrived from Africa and you don't know how
to fire. That you need to be taught at the farm.
We have to put you on a plantation and teach
you how to pick consonants, broke cotton into brow, cross
the stone. That's why you were here. You didn't know anything.
So you see, it is the erase thing that this

(02:15:30):
current wave is doing of our history and substituting it
with the myth of the path that back of blacks
are inefficient incompetence. Now, let me give you an example.
There was a man who was running a Republican. This
is now maybe fifteen years ago, maybe even longer. He

(02:15:55):
was running for governor and he was a big time Republican.
He was a lawyer, and he would stand on the
stage and he would talk about the getting privilege, defermental
privilege based on race. You should not give it on
based on race. It is beyond merit. It should beyond
merit because you let people with substandards things come into

(02:16:19):
the program and they should not be there. Oh, he
went on and on, and you had a black woman
who was in the same class with him, and she
had come through one of these programs. Please let me in.
I can prove I can do it when you let
me in. And she would go to his rallies and

(02:16:40):
she would say, when the graduating class was, where did
you stand? What was your rank in the graduating class?
I was in the upper upper one percent, and I
think you were in the lower half of the percent.

(02:17:02):
Is that true? Kind of Then she said, I passed
the California Bar the first time, and if I'm correct,
it took you three times to try to pass. Is
that correct? So tell me how it is that I

(02:17:23):
got in based on my race and I'm not entitled
to be there.

Speaker 6 (02:17:29):
And you got a story.

Speaker 1 (02:17:30):
Right there, doctor Nichols. I step aside for a few
moments so our stations can identify themselves down the line.
I let you finish that story. Interesting story. Family, you
two can get in all this conversation with doctor Nichols.
Reach out to us at eight hundred four five zero
seventy eight seventy six will take your phone calls next
and Grand Rising family, thanks for staying with us and
our guest doctor Edward Nichols. Doctor Nicholas is one of
the top psychologists that we have at in our community,

(02:17:53):
and he's given us a story as well. Before we
left though, he was tell us a story about the
black woman who confronted a white man who thought she
did not was not qualified to hold the same position.
He was currently if I'm wrong, if you can continue
that story for you to appreciate it.

Speaker 12 (02:18:07):
Doctor Nichols, Okay, once you have you have two lawyers,
both graduates of one of the top law schools in California,
and the white man was around. He was trying to
run for governor of California, and his pretext was that
the letting minorities into these programs based on the fact

(02:18:27):
that they were just minorities, letting a quota that's what
he's saying, a quota of black people and just because
they're black rather than qualified, was destroying the system. And
it was what he was saying in quotes, was the
system of white supremacy. That's what he's saying. He's a
code words, he's a dog was. So the reality was

(02:18:49):
sister Girl went around and asked him these very embarrassing
questions like, well, since I was one of the minorities
let in based on a quota unqualified. Let's see how
well it worked once we get into the program. Once
I get a chance to get in there, what do
I do. I'm at the top of the class. You
were at the bottom of the class for the graduating class.

(02:19:10):
I passed the California Bar first time. As I recall,
it took you three times to pass the bar, and
you passed it at the minimum level. So you see,
when people are confronted with that reality, they have to
change the roofs back to what they were before. So

(02:19:31):
let me kind of give you a little history here
the twentieth century. In the twentieth century, the United States
of America was the wealthiest and the most powerful nation
in the world, and we had the most affluent middle
class of citizens in the world. And that was because

(02:19:54):
we developed a vertical and hierarchical organizational structure. When these
people we're going back to eighteen something and the first
part of nineteen oh five nineteen six, when when the
Americans that were born here, they all got an eighth
grade education. Now, that eighth grade education was tremendous, and

(02:20:18):
if you don't think the exam for the eighth grade
education was something you'd be embarrassed because you probably wouldn't
pass it even with your college degree. I'm not I
ain't talking to you. I just you didn't hear it
from me. But go take it. The look on the
web for Iowa eighth grade examination for passing or something

(02:20:41):
like that, and they'll give you the test that they
gave them. If you can pass it, then you feel
much better. But don't be embarrassed if you don't pass it, okay,
because that's how rigorous it was. In other words, the
eighth grade education really made you literate in the English language,
who had all the skills of a division, multiplication, addition

(02:21:03):
in ruction and percentage, who knew how to do all
those things, okay? And well, the people coming from Europe
did not have free public education. So those people who
came like like trumps or bears and thought they weren't educated,
they came here, many of them. If you look to

(02:21:25):
see how educated they were when they came here, they
couldn't spell their last name. So what happens is you
have one the the the the the poor. Authority would
very often spell a name for them. So you have

(02:21:49):
the first generation that comes, and then the younger brothers
and cousins that come later, their name is spelled differently.
So you got in one family one set of spelling
and other set of spelling because they were semi literate.
Now they may be able to X or something like that. Now,
the only exception would have been Jews. And the only

(02:22:10):
exception for that is because Jews at thirteen receiver of
our mythsful betweens, they are able. You have to be
able to read the Torah. You have to be able
to read the Jewish Bible, and it is written in Hebrew.
Now that Hebrew alphabet, that's what you can now use

(02:22:33):
it to write in Yiddish. That was the lingua franca
for European Jews, lingua franca for European youth. The most
Jews spoke was Yiddish, and they wrote Yiddish in Hebrew letters.
So when you get off the boat in New York,

(02:22:57):
you are one of the few people that can pick
up a new newspaper, all right, the Takisplat, that's what
it was called, they lead newspaper, and you can read
and in there it will tell you where you can
go and get a place to live. If somebody died
on the ship, and you've got to bring them off.
Where can you get where can you take them so
they'll clean the body for for the ritual ceremonies for

(02:23:21):
the dead, and so forth. So all that information was there.
So the one group of people of adult men get
off the boat and pick up a newspaper and know
what to do. Were Jews because they could read Yiddish
and they had Yiddish newspapers. Now, the other people thereby
have been newspapers in German or French or something, but

(02:23:44):
they were of little avail to them, because most of
them would have been in English anyway, and they probably
could not have read to any degree of sufficien, satisfaction
and sophistication their own mother tongue. All right, Now, the
United States in the twenty first century and the twentieth
century rich is the most powerful nation in the world,

(02:24:08):
the most affluent middle class of citizens in the world.
The organizational structure was that vertical hierarchy. If I get in,
I'll bring you up. I get in, I'll move you up.
As I move up, you move up. Now, that organizational
structure was based on education, research, and technology. That's the
three legged stool of that thing and the education, because

(02:24:33):
people were not educated coming to this country. When they
came here and they found out that they were in
competition coming from coming from Ireland, Italy, they were not
prepared to deal with this system where people had an
eighth grade education. So the Catholic school system was developed

(02:24:55):
to give you an eighth grade education. So if you
look in you or old cities like Detroit and some
of these other cities, Ohio and places, you will find
a Catholic church rectory for the priests, and a content
for the nuns, and a school, and the nuns taught

(02:25:17):
first to eighth grade, which meant they are now able
to compete for the job that the indigenous Americans have
eight free education. So now if you have an eighth
grade education, I have an eighth grade education, and I
don't keep my advantage. So what we do is we

(02:25:40):
always change rules. So because I always have the eighth
grade education, you're just not getting it through the Catholic
school system. I say, you know, yes, well that's interesting.
We have an eighth free education, but I have a
high school education. So now we're changing rule in order

(02:26:01):
to be the manager an eighth free education is beginning.
You now have to have high school bom. So you
see this group of people are still behind. And so
now you see these Catholic high Catholics becoming your Catholic
high school. But these people say, but you know you
don't have any college. You have to go to college.

(02:26:23):
So now you begin to see the University of Detroit,
University of Denver, all these places are Catholic college. It's
always one step behind. And what that was trying to
accomplish was to make the American Protestant Christian Okay, ahead

(02:26:44):
of any of these undesirable people that were coming from Europe.
Two books you want to look at. One is when
the Irish became white and the others when Jews became white,
meaning that when those two groups first came to this country,
they were not considered to have white privilege. The whiteness

(02:27:08):
did not mean your complexion. It meant we accept you
or we don't except and so they were not accepted
until they were a culturated and the next generation then
could be as similar. Now as black people, we have
been a culturated since slavery and before. Unlike black them,

(02:27:36):
we've been a culturally. But as blacks we have never
been a similar and we have always been in a
situation where we have been punished or success punished or success.

(02:27:56):
So it doesn't matter how well you are a culturated,
we're not going to be a similar thanks as that
which means to give given white persons that words things read.

Speaker 1 (02:28:18):
I just went to Okay, right off the top of
the family, doctor ed Nichols is cast I hope you're
enjoying this discussion that we're having with doctor Nichols. You know,
we're explaining the physic philosophy, philosophical aspects of cultural differences,
and the difference is especially between the races as well.

(02:28:38):
Eight hundred and four or five zero seventy eight seventy
six twelve. At the top there, bert Is John has
a question for doctor Nichols. Grand rising. Bert your question
for doctor Nichols.

Speaker 16 (02:28:48):
Grund rising. Colin grund Rising, Doctor Nichols, I need for
you to help me understand the dynamics of afro Centric
versus Eurocentric in the light of today you know political climate.
You know, we've got conservatives and marga, and we've got
black conservatives and black marga and black stut.

Speaker 9 (02:29:08):
You know, it's it's confusing when you know, we have
these conflicts and I see people taking different sides. I'd
like to know where, you know, the dynamics of afrocentricity
and eurocentricity comes into play here.

Speaker 7 (02:29:27):
Can you help me with that?

Speaker 12 (02:29:29):
All right, I'll do my best. Okay, just talking about
being assimilated and a culturated, A culturation means into European standards.
So let's see how that works. It comes to my house.

(02:29:57):
A culturation is the top of European ac culturation. I
will invite you to a dinner party, and in the
dinner party, I will have the first course will be
first of all. When you come in, I'll give you
an a pair of ee and there will be a small

(02:30:17):
tray of our dus so that we sort of talk
to each other and wait for the other guests to arrive.
Then when it's time I hire someone to come and serve.
That individual comes out. And so these are all these
are these are personal friends of mine. They'll put on

(02:30:37):
the white nicholause you're so bad shape. They will put
the white the white coat. They will serve for me.
And these people have they have all kinds of degrees.
They don't need to be doing it. And you see
if in an office, you'd be embarrassed as what was
he doing in Nichols serving, he's in this top position.
But they love, they love doctor Nichols, they love to nick,

(02:31:00):
so they'll come and do it all.

Speaker 7 (02:31:02):
Right.

Speaker 12 (02:31:02):
Now we go into the We go into the dining room,
and the first course will be the super course course,
and then the next course will be the fish court,
and then the next course will be sometimes the salad
course in a French court in an American system, but
in the French system you will have that, then you
have the main course. Now with each of these courses

(02:31:24):
there is a wine that goes with it. So now
Nichols is thoroughly a culturated in European table manners and
dinner survey. Okay, thoroughly culturated now, but Nichols is still
not assimilated the max into the mainstream. Because I'm black,

(02:31:48):
So it doesn't matter how much a culturation. I can
play classical piano, I can I have friends that seen
classical musically everything that European we can do at all.
So we are Eurocentric in our behavior, but we have
not been accepted. In other words, we are culturated, but
not assimilated into the white world. Okay, now because black

(02:32:16):
people and psychologists. I'm one of the getting of the psychologists.
We in We said, look, we're not putting up with
this crap with the American Psychological Association anymore. We are
going to form our own organization. We are the Association

(02:32:36):
of Black Psychologists, and we're going to look at the
psychology of black people. And about this time there's kind
of an awakening of what is in Africa. We have
in Chroma who goes to Ghana and he's setting it
up and he's making it move, but it's moving too fast,
so they have to get rid of it. We have

(02:32:58):
Patrice la Mumba. He's moving the congo too fast and
the CIA kills him. He said, it's not I'm talking
some secrets. It's well known. So what you have then
is well, why are all these things happening to Africa?
As Africa kinds awakens and have you, well, then you
have scholars that force you to look at Africa and

(02:33:23):
see the contributions that are me And out of that
movement comes a pride. I mean, there comes a sense
of pride in being black.

Speaker 11 (02:33:36):
You.

Speaker 12 (02:33:36):
When I was growing up, people looked at me and
said hmm. He got that bad nappy hair, okay. And
I used to get it cut off almost Paul, because
I did not want the bad nappy hair. That imprint
is still in ninety four year olds nipples because I
go and get it almost all of the cutoff, because

(02:33:57):
the hair around. I have this little ring around on
the side of my head that grows this little gray hair.
And I look at that and I think Uncle Reemas.
Uncle Reemas had this little gray hair all around the
side and ball right down the middle. And that imprint
is still in nichols at ninety four years of age.

(02:34:17):
I should be able to just grow it out and
have an afro if I could grow it with no
hair down the middle. I have some friends and I
look at them and I say, I don't think cut
that off. He's got dreadlocks and no hair in the middle.
All the hair in the middle's gone. He's got a
few dreadlocks hanging around the side. I'm thinking because I
have been imprinted with this old European way of looking

(02:34:40):
at things. But he has an afroscentric thought process. This
is the natural way that my hair look, this is
the way it functions, and this is what I have
you see when you look at all these young men
with hair all the way down to their ways. When

(02:35:02):
I was coming along, I never never had a clue
that it would even grow that long, nor did I
give it an opportunity to grow that long because it
was bad in napian Kinki. So Afrocentric says, I am
proud of who I am. I accept who I am.

(02:35:22):
I have some people that they can either or a choice.
Either you're going to be European or you're going to
be African, and that's silly. We're both okay, So either
you're white or you're black. And I tell people on
the job I work white. I'm Eurocentric, and do hold.

Speaker 1 (02:35:46):
That thought right there. I'm going to I'm so grosseding
this w just blew past the time. Kevin did never
remind me nineteen minutes off the top of our family
got take a quick break. We're running late, doctor Nicholas.
I guest eight hundred and four or five zero seventy
eight seventy six to speak to him. We'll take your
calls now, and thanks for rolling with this. Family are
so locked into a doctor Nichols are saying, we just

(02:36:06):
just missed that the break right there. But hopefully doctor
Nicholas apologize for the abrupt break. But I'll let you
continue because we're so locked into what you were saying.
But go ahead.

Speaker 12 (02:36:17):
Okay. We're looking at being eurocentric or being afrocentric, and
that's dichotomy. But we don't want dichotomy. We want to
be able to be diunital. That is two things ostensively
in opposition coming to one. And the way I explained
it to you is that on the job, I'm eurocentric. Okay,

(02:36:39):
I work by but when I come home, I am afrocentric,
I'm black. Let me give you an example. At work,
when you walk in, you may say good morning, you
may not. You may go directly to your desk and
start working. Well, if you're going carrying afrocentric thinking into

(02:37:03):
your workplace, you're very upset. A someone has said good morning, hello,
how are you? Did you sleep well? How's your family?
They haven't said anything before, just jumping onto the task
to do the work well. You can get your feelings
hurt if you walk in you say good morning, hello,
how are you, and nobody says anything because they're focused
on the task. That's what they're focusing on, and you

(02:37:26):
think well, why didn't they speak. Well, don't get your
feelings hurt. Go in thinking youro I got to get
the job done. If somebody says good morning, well grunt,
that's it. It's nothing personal. You just get the job done.
The object. Now, if you go in and you're dealing

(02:37:48):
with your black colleagues or your Hispanic colleagues, I'm gonna
say good morning, hello, how are you in house? Family?
Because all that is necessary before you can start to work.
Got to make sure that everybody is okay and then
you can start on the task. In the European culture,
I don't care whether you're okay or now. I'm going
to do what I have to do. But I'm doing

(02:38:09):
my part. And so again, Now, Afrocentric is much deeper
than just the clothes and hairstyle and what have you.
It says with in my core, I know that we
are people of the history of the world. I know

(02:38:31):
that we have superior intelligence. Now, if you look at
England right now, the smartest kids in music, in anything
that you can name, all these little geniuses are African,
primarily Nigerian children who are raised in England. I don't
think that doesn't upset them over there in English. I'm

(02:38:56):
sharing that with you because it isn't just the clothes
and the hairstyle. The afrocentric says in my core, I
am proud of who I am. Okay, my hair is
the way my hair is, my skin is the color
that it is. My complexion is who I am, and

(02:39:18):
I'm proud of who I am. I know. Well, let
me give you another example. Nicholas's Catholic. So they asked
they have this one, you know, black history Vounce and
they want history of black Catholics. Well, it always starts
with the slaves that were the enslaved people down in
Maryland that converted to Catholicism because the Jesuits owned them

(02:39:41):
as slave and then they just sold them to plantations
in Louisiana to get enough money to keep Georgetown open
because there was so much in debt. Or you didn't
know that one. I was on that committee too, all right.
So if you then become Catholic, right, then your thought

(02:40:05):
about African people and Catholicism starts with sixteen nineteen or
when there was the black people came. But when Nichols gave
his report to the church, I told him, I said,
some of the first popes were African. Pope Saint Victor

(02:40:28):
was a one who prevented the system between the Eastern
Orthodox Church which later became the Eastern Orthodox Church and
the Roman Catholic Church. He is the one that excommunicated
the top of the Eastern Orthodox Church because there was

(02:40:50):
an argument about the dolphin and this black brother. Pope
Saint Victor said, you are wrong. I am the Pope,
and you're excommunicated until you get yours act together. And
he got his act together and he came back into
the church. There were three black popes who don't start

(02:41:14):
talking about black history at slavery oh beyond. You see now,
how many black Catholics know that with the first dream
among the first pote three or more black. And what
did they do in terms of writing the things that
we see every day and reads as part of Catholicism.

(02:41:36):
What were their contributions in the liturgy of the church.
So that is my afrocentric reality. I know who I am.
I know my African root. Okay, now I still have
some residual because you know, I don't let his hair
go out because this what is bad and Nappy and

(02:41:58):
Kingki get it cut off. But that's that's because I
ain't worked that through yet psychologically. So when you come
to see me in the coffin, you tell those people
be sure to cut that hair off and have all
that great hair on this side around there in this
ball head down the middle. Sure to cut it all
off so it just looks nice and plain. And don't

(02:42:18):
be putting on now Noah on my face, okay, or
nut brown. I need to see that the complexion of
all all black people had nut brown face power. All right, enough,
what's that next?

Speaker 1 (02:42:33):
Let me ask you this question, doctor Nicholas, Doctor Nichols.
When we talk about d but the d I, but
the people who are some of the people who are
presenting d I, they like black folks. I mean, they
don't like black boys, but they like a rhythm. They
like our music of food. They're like a vibe how
we roll speech. Even some of them I hand on TV.

(02:42:55):
We're calling each other brother STU. White boys on TV.
The anchor thank you. I'm like, wait a minute, all
all all of the stuff that we have, they've taken it.
But they don't like our black skin. Some people say
they like rhythm, but they don't like our blues. Can
you can you evaluate that for us.

Speaker 12 (02:43:15):
Well, what they do is they have the ability to
pick and choose because they are they are assimilated into
the industry, so they can look at our culturation. We
are culturated, and ta can choose. See they they took rap.

(02:43:36):
H that was a creative thing. It's such a creative thing,
the concept of rap that they teach it as courses
at Columbia University. Wow, these white people teaching about rap
at Columbia and other other white university because it's a
completely different construct of intellectual thinking and music. So they

(02:44:00):
need to be codified and find out how it works
and put it in the little parts as you can
count and measure, so they can attempt to recreate it.
So the reality is that you have people who pick
and choose because they have the capacity to do that
what they want, but they don't want that other partner.

(02:44:23):
Let me show you how crazy that is. I live
in a house that was built in nineteen forty seven, Okay,
And this house has a room in the basement where
the maid stays and her own bathroom, a tub of sink,

(02:44:47):
and a toilet, all right.

Speaker 4 (02:44:50):
Now.

Speaker 12 (02:44:50):
The reason she has that down there is because the
white people who lived here did not want her to
use their what their bathroom? Now you want to see
how crazy that is. Here's a woman who is cooking
their food. About now, if she is so nasty, filthy, unclean,

(02:45:19):
how can she cook their food every day? See how
irrational it is? You you had situations where you had
they didn't have a separate toilet for the uh, the
main that came to work on the plan to work
on the place, he had either hold it or gold

(02:45:41):
out in the garage or some other place and do
what she needs to do. And yet she'd come right
back in and make their biscuits. Now is there any
any sense you see? How how how much cognitive dissonance
there is between wanting a portion of what you know,

(02:46:02):
it's picking and choosings like a la carte. I like this,
you know, I like these things, but I don't like
them fixing it. In other words, all that spread of
food is out there on the counter, and when you
go to a lovely restaurant, ballas that everything's out there,
but you don't want to look at the hands that
made it, because they're black. And that's cognitive this, It says,

(02:46:27):
as long as I look at them as different from myself.
I am better look at all the things that are
happening to the fact that SNAP went all. The percentage

(02:46:48):
of black people on SNAP by the comparison of white
people on SNAP is just crazy. If we even fifteen
percent of the people that are on SNAP as opposed
to any of the white people that are. Yet, whom
do you picture every time in these lines that need

(02:47:09):
food and talking about the food and security and their jobs,
you pick black people? And why is that? That's to
reinforce the idea that this is something that is happening
to them, not to us, and therefore I am better
than they. And as long as you can keep that

(02:47:32):
myth going, then the present government and continue to do
what it does. People are beginning to wake up, and
they've tried to wake up. And the reason they tried
to wake up is because their children and grandchildren are

(02:47:53):
not experiencing what happened to the Great Generation after the
war was over World War two. Through the sacrifices, the blood,
the sweat, the tears, that Great Generation they defeated the
Axis hours at the end of World War Two. Once

(02:48:15):
they came home, they were very hard working and the
purpose was to make America the most powerful nation in
the world. Their efforts were aided at creating a better
life for themselves and their family because they had been
in the war for two three four five years, they
were trying to catch up. They sought better housing. They

(02:48:38):
moved to the suburbs. They built new community, but just
stopped there. They sought better housing, though they built housing
in the suburbs, Tileytown and all his other places, Semonicola, Semicole,
and however, Coama. Could black veterans get the loan to

(02:48:58):
move out into those places? He answers, what, No, But
you could get alone to buy a used house in
the city where white people had moved out of the
price had gone up for the property. You could get that,
but you had to do repairs and update and everything
else in this raggedy asshole hose flk sorry, and this

(02:49:23):
deteriorating building. But that's what we were because it was
red lighted and we were forced to stay in that
ghettled area. Now, the efforts were aimed at creating a
better life for their families. They sought better housing. They
moved to the suburbs, their children of the areas of
wealth and opportunity were the baby boomer all rightn't They

(02:49:47):
had the best schools, the best nutrician and for graduation,
very often they asked for a car, all right, not books,
not tuition, a car. The great generation was re warded.
All these people were rewarded by the unions getting races
for them. They got bonuses. And when they've finished at

(02:50:08):
like fifty, you know, twenty five years of working at
Ford Motor Company, they were eligible for retirement. So they
got a nice retirement package. And they weren't that old,
and for the years of their loyal service they received
this pitch. They were very happy about. Now their children,
the baby boomers try to exceed the work habits of

(02:50:31):
their parents. They worked longer out most of them have
those have a degree now and so they work in
offices and they work. They hear the model was don't
go home until after the boss goes home. You say,
they're working until he goes home, and then you go home.
They relocated their families for the job. The job says,

(02:50:52):
your next step to move up. And this corporation requires
that you move from from from Washington, d C. To Syracuse,
New York, or to North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (02:51:07):
Right and how I thought right there, Doc, No, I'll
let you finish up on the other side, twenty three
minutes away from the top. Day with doctor Nichols going deep,
deep deep this morning, family like you got a question
for him? Reach out to us at eight hundred four
or five zero seventy eight seventy six, and we'll take
your phone calls next and grand rising family seventeen away
from the top there, I guess psychono just start to
Edward Nichols got a question from reach out to us

(02:51:27):
at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six. Dog,
I let you finish your thought. I got a quick
question for you in Eric in California also has a
question for you. But I'll let you finish your thought.

Speaker 12 (02:51:37):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:51:38):
Uh.

Speaker 12 (02:51:39):
With the great generation you had the baby boomers, and
the baby Boomers were the one that tried to do
outdo what their parents had done. They worked harder, they
worked more hours, they sacrificed their family, they did all
kinds of things to move up into the corporation. Then
you got to semicole and however come and that was globalization,

(02:52:01):
and globalization began to take hold, and the baby Boomers
found themselves in an insecure work environment. Their jobs were
being outsold, their companies were failing. They were going overseas
to other places because it was cheaper to operate there

(02:52:23):
and import the product here. Those baby boomers lost their
four oh one K investments. There was a downturn in
the economy and they were forced to take any kind
of job they could find, and their sense of retirement
and tension that was remote. Now they're children that you

(02:52:48):
have great generation, the Baby Boomers. They have the next generation,
the millenniums. They said, We're not going to go through
all those changes. I'm a top in my field. I'm
doing what I want to do. I will work for
you and you need me because I have skills in
nobody else hands. And if I don't like it, I
can go someplace and give me another job. Now, in

(02:53:10):
a capitalist society, you can't have that much independence with people.
But what you have to do is you have to
kind of clip their wings too. And what they've done
is they have now changed the model of the workforce.
In other words, they have now gone to this globalization.

(02:53:32):
That's what killed everybody. See when that when the globalization
took place, how are we going to compete, and that's
where our sense of being black people is very important
because we have a different way of knowing and problem solving.
In our European counterpart, the Asian population, different way of

(02:53:57):
knowing and problem solved. And if all of us get
together on a team, we can win. But if you
go back to that all white male at Regina, homogeneous
group of workers that dissolved from and that's what is
now happening. If you look to see the top heads
of the military, four star general kicked out, woman who

(02:54:20):
was in charge of the navy, admiral kicked out, and
the self command kicked out. Now you have Trump saying
that we have to go into Nigeria to protect a
Christian Is that really what's going on? Or are they

(02:54:40):
trying to put American troops into Nigeria so that they
can go into the hell and replace where the French
troops were. French troops were kicked out and this hell
has its own currency backed by go They have paid

(02:55:02):
off all their debts. President of the Hell of Molly
has created housing for people. There's some work like housing
people owned, and he's creating more. In other words, what
he's doing is he's taking the money and wealth of
his country and he's investing it in your country. And

(02:55:24):
they have projects and things that they're building and what
have you. So that is just too much of the
resources that the West needs in the hands of black
people telling you you have to pay for it. So
what are we going to do about it? Well, they

(02:55:45):
have kicked the French troops out, so who has a
bigger army to go in there? You need a pretext. Oh,
the Christians are being killed. We have got to go
in and say the Christians, so be mindful of how
we move forward, and we're constantly being attacked and undercut.

(02:56:08):
Hep us in our play. Questions from the audience, right.

Speaker 1 (02:56:14):
That my question real quick, doctor, because you mentioned the
fact that the white folks they like us swag, like
how we talk, we roll music and everything like that.
Some of us confused that I'm talking about sisters now
because they want to be like them. White folks want
to be like us, and we got sisters with all
this blonde hair. How do you see that? Are they

(02:56:34):
on the illusion of inclusion?

Speaker 12 (02:56:37):
No, hairstylers is hairstyl is just what's what's in bolgue? Okay?
If you saw some pictures of me. I had a throw, okay,
because that's what was in style. Nicholas had a throw.
Then you know, if you look at early pictures of me,
like when I was in the army in nineteen fifty

(02:56:58):
and fifty two, it's all cut off, you know. Then
you see me in the eighties or what it was
the seventies, I got a frow. So it's hairstyle and
hair color. You can tin it. And I mean it's
like the it's like the peacock. It's the notice me.
You know, I want blonde. I can have these streamers

(02:57:21):
of what have you. And then it's going to change.
If you look at certain pictures you see black women
with frows. Then it went to all the straight hair,
and then it went to extensions, and now it's it's
placid braids, and it's different colors and what have you.
And it's just temporary. It's not it's not going to last.
I mean it's not. It's not a statement of anything

(02:57:41):
other than the style is the style. And if you
look begin to see white girls with you know, white
girls have how many of you see with the purple hair.

Speaker 1 (02:57:56):
Threads too? Yes, I get it, but it's away from
the tab. Eric in California has a question for you,
John Line one, Grand Rise and Eric with doctor Nichols.

Speaker 17 (02:58:07):
All right, good morning doctor Nichols.

Speaker 6 (02:58:08):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 17 (02:58:09):
Okay, yes, sir, Yeah, maybe maybe you can help me
out with this since you spoke a little bit about
the how the Europeans are more of the population on
the snap benefits than than we are. And I looked
at when they reopened the government, and I think those

(02:58:31):
eight Democrats did that because I know on Instagram and
and in TikTok, it was a lot of videos showing
a lot of those Maga Trump supporters down in those
red steaks that was standing in those.

Speaker 7 (02:58:47):
Food lines to get food and they didn't have on.

Speaker 17 (02:58:51):
Their Maga hat.

Speaker 11 (02:58:53):
And I think that those those europe I think those
white folks in the Senate and those the Democrats was like, yo,
wait a minute, it you know, just starting to show
the real stuff that our people are are home to,
especially the Trump supporters. I think they decided to reopen
the government because those pictures, those images was looking pretty

(02:59:14):
bad on Instagram and and hiptop. So what's what's your
take on that call?

Speaker 14 (02:59:20):
Can I remain on the line for a quick second
to hear the.

Speaker 1 (02:59:25):
Go ahead, Doc.

Speaker 12 (02:59:26):
Yeah, it's it's you see, what you're doing is you
have to show images. So when you show images from Washington,
d C. We see black images because we're primarily the
largest population in the Washington area. But when you show
out in Iowa and out in California and other places
that the populations are predominantly white, and they show white

(02:59:47):
images and the scene of white images in line asking
for food, it is not something that you want to
say when this is the richest country in the world,
and it's not saying that U. It doesn't corroborate what
you are hearing from this administration about where the best country,
we're the most riches, were all these other things. And

(03:00:15):
because of that dissonance, you have to do something about it.
And so that's why you have the people. But now
look the people, the ten that did it, they don't
come up for reelection, not this cycle. But it's you know,
four years from now. Others are a couple of them
resigning and some of the others are leading government too.

(03:00:40):
So you see that that ten, even though they they're
in safe positions. What I'm saying, they won't reap any
repercussions from from the from the boss of the Senate,
or having pulled away from the mainstream. And of course

(03:01:01):
it looks bad. Trump knew it would look bad. And
because when we had all these people winning, and these
predominantly like the governor of New Jersey, the governor of Virginia,
and then the mayor of the City of New York,

(03:01:22):
that's too much cognitive distance. These people are winning. We
got to change the rule. So that's what they did.
They had to say something to bring it all back around.
But now, look, there's a punitiveness here that we have
to look at. There's a whole lot of punitive. The

(03:01:42):
two of the courts said, now right now, pay for
the full month or whatever it is. Immediately you go
to the court and you get well, we're filing an objection. Well,
the court has to give you time to develop the
ejection and then present it to the court. That's structure.

(03:02:05):
So what you've done is, even though a lower court
says give it to them now, because of the punitiveness,
we're gonna punish you. So we will wait till the
court tell, the Supreme Court tell. And of course the
Supreme Court is balanced in a way that you're going
to get more things asked that are in line with

(03:02:28):
what the administration wants.

Speaker 1 (03:02:34):
You know, before run out of time, just saying another
incident that came out this morning, Doctor Nichols, that the
New York Times, all the newspapers are reporting this is
going to be the biggest story for the day. Family,
So I'll just drop it on you say that Epstein
a legend emails that Trump knew about his conduct. Sometimes
you wonder the timing your thoughts on that real quick, Dr.

Speaker 12 (03:02:54):
Nichols, Well, it's a game.

Speaker 1 (03:02:57):
You know.

Speaker 12 (03:02:59):
What What was most striking to me is when Trump
went to meet Putin in Alaska and all before, if
you listen to the days of the conversation. We have
to end this, we have to end this. We have
to end this. And then Trump meets him and within
an hour it I'll change it. But my question is

(03:03:22):
what you got on Trump? What you've got? What pitches
you got? He must have some pitches in there somewhere
with nobody won't or he's got some contracts or something
that people don't want. You don't change from one statement
as you get on the plane and within five minutes
after you get off, you change it, you have to

(03:03:44):
think about it. They're scandal there, but you know it's
it will hardly come to the light of day of
it if it's all possible to keep it hidden. They're
scandal there. But with this situation, people excuse me whatever
he did, because people are single voter issues. As a Catholic,

(03:04:06):
what with the Catholics wanting Catholics wanted the right to
like no no abortion. Okay, that's their Catholic Catholic dogment, right,
that's what the Catholic and they voted for him because
that's what they want in spite of the character, that ethics,
the morality and everything else that you could look at

(03:04:26):
that if anybody else was running for it and not
the single issue that you wanted, you would have said,
I don't want them, but to get the single issue,
you see, that's the That's the way Europeans are in
terms of the object. I want that object and whatever
it takes, I don't care as long as I get back, okay.

(03:04:47):
And there were other groups that had that object that
they wanted and they voted for him too. And don't
be fooled about you know, Christianity, because a lot of
these Christians ain't Christians, ain't got nothing to do.

Speaker 1 (03:05:00):
Right, all right? Thank thank you doctor Nichols. Thank you
for sharing your thoughts with us this morning. Folks, we
learned a lot. If you didn't hear the entire conversation,
make sure you get a copy of the podcast. Thank you,
doctor Nichols again for sharing your thoughts with us this morning.

Speaker 12 (03:05:15):
Okay, you're very welcome, and send me a copy of
the podcast.

Speaker 1 (03:05:19):
We'll do all right. That's doctor Edward Nichols. He's a psychologist,
foundly one of the best psychologists we have in our community.
But that's it for the day. Class is dismissed, and
stay strong, stay positive, please please stay healthy. We'll see
you tomorrow morning, six o'clock right here in Baltimore on
ten ten WLB and also on the DMV on fourteen
fifty WOL.

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