Dr. Gerald Horne, Professor Marion Orr & Edwin Avent on The Carl Nelson Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're rocking with the Most Submissive the Carl Nelson Show.
You're rocking with the most Submissive.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
And Grand Rising family, and thanks for starting your week
with us. Again, it's a short week for some folks. Later,
the University of Houston's Africana and African American History professor
Gerald Horne will take us over take away our classroom.
Doctor Horne, as usual, will cover several topics, including US
threats to invade Nigeria and Venezuela, the implications of the
Russia Ukraine deal in SIDS from the recent G twenty

(00:57):
semmit in South Africa, also Trump meeting, as well as
issues in the hell Nations if you opia an aer Tria.
But before doctor Horn, poly Scide Professor Marin Orr will
preview his compelling book about the late Detroit Congress and
Charles Diggs a moment Charilie Baltimore educator Edwin Events will
join us. But first of us, get Kevin to opm
up these classroom doors. This Monday morning, Grand Rising, Kevin.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Grand Rising, indeed, Coll Nelson Man, It's a week of
gratitude and thankfulness and the energy is just like a
palpable wave.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
You can feel it.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Everybody's sharing their gratitude throughout this week, especially it's the
twenty fourth of November, and of course I'm speaking of
the holiday Thanksgiving holiday.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
How you feeling, COONL. Nelson.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I'm still learning, Kevin, I'm still learning.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, yeah, And we wouldn't expect anything less because as
you learn, you share, and that's right. Then that is
another thing for us to be thankful for. You know,
show like this and the town that you display your
talented brother.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Man, No, I just opened the doors for all the
other talented folks. I don't have the talent of those
other people. I don't know half as much as any
of them know.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
And humble too. You know, that's a beautiful baby, That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Look you remember, of course Hubert Gerald Brown, also known
as also known as h Rap Brown, of course and
Who's Real, who eventually was known as Jamil Abdullah all Aman.
He died yesterday at the ripe young age of eighty

(02:42):
two years old. Passed away at a federal prison hospital
in North Carolina, and he was known for his activism
in the sixties as the chairman of the Student Nonvalent
Coordinating Committee s NCC. They also called that snick right
and later became a Muslim cleric convicted of murder. So
we're sending out condolence.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well yeah, yeah, well people say he was wrong and convicted,
so let's put that in there because you know, his
supporters and his family, most people have been following uh
Al I mean for years and feel that he was
set up in Georgia on that trial. They wanted to
just get him as silence him, and then that they
what they did to him is he's let him rot
in jail even when he was ill. They wouldn't let

(03:24):
him get the medical treatment that he deserved. And similar
situation going on in the Philadelphia era, she said, Pennsylvania. Yeah,
so so this is what but saying all of that
though came. I know, if you remember, we interviewed his son,
who was an attorney, Kyrie L. I mean, so we
wanted to pass on our condolences to Kyrie and his

(03:46):
and his mother Kareema L. I mean, you know, I'm
sure that the progressive folks this morning or when the
news broke last night, we're kind of upset even though
we knew he was he was he was suffering and
could not get the medical attention that he needed for years.
That denied Hiven the medical attention that he needed. So
now he's made his transition.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
John L.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Me and, as Kevin said, formerly knows h Rap Brown
is now an ancestor.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
In other news, the administration again denies FEMA disaster relief
for Illinois, and the Trump administration is again, like I said,
denied another request from Illinois to assist in the state's
recovery from severe flash floods late in July, despite a
recent assessment detailing the widespread damage and financial costs of

(04:41):
the storms in Eleonderson Friday to a local Federal Emergency
Management Agency administrator and obtained by the Post. Illinois Governor JB.
Pritz appealed FEMA's denial for assistance and provided a report
that he said prove the state's damage met the criteria
needed to obtain individual as assistance from the federal government.

(05:03):
Even the Trump administration denied the requests for assistance back
in October because of insufficient severity in the state's resources.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
According to the latter, was insufficient.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Severity that because you know it all started when, uh
it started with when when Princess started? And Johnson, the
mayor of Chicago then started criticizing, well, Trump did what
he did, sending the troops or timison troops, and the
Chicago pushed back, and Princes of course decided with his
mayor and pushed back as well. I'm just wondering how

(05:34):
much of that is played into that decision.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
It's hard to tell, but the White Out spokesperson, a
spokeswoman Abigail Jackson, said, gone are the days of rubber
stamping FEMA recommendations.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
There were days of that, and some.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Lawmakers and FEMA officials have contended that decisions on federal
aid for severe natural disasters such as wildfires, hurricanes, and
lash flooding have become increasingly political, favoring red states over blue,
especially when it comes to the speed of approving disaster declarations. Man,
this is going to come back on somebody.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
Well you know this.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
You know, I hate to interrupt you, kem oh no,
but you know this is what we're going to talk
with Professor Horn when it comes on. Because that meeting
between Mandannie and Mandannie and Trump at the White House,
because the New York City's got a lot of federal
issues on the table and they need money for funding,

(06:35):
you know, for transportation and they've been sort of held
up and they have a big canceled but they're being
held up. And so some people think that this meeting
man Donnie requests his meetings, so he could, you know,
get get Trump to release those funds to help the city.
So we'll see what happens. Because you already talked about
sending in a National Guard and he put that on
hold into New York City after the meeting. So I

(06:57):
think this is what we're seeing in Illinois, uh and
especially in the Chicago here.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
It's a blowback, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
It's again he's playing that card, that political card for
the residents of Illinois. But we'll see how it plays
out though, because the elections are coming up and elections
have consequences.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
As they say, it's a mess.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Man and the Border Patrol, speaking of National Guard targets
Charlotte shopping centers, say that three times Charlotte's shopping centers
US citizens were arrested. Channel nine reporter Hunter san Jezz
saw people using whistles to alert others as Border Patrol
agents conducted operations. The same week, two US citizens were

(07:38):
detained in Plaza Midwood after allegedly following agents during the
immigration crackdown.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
That has led to two hundred and fifty arrests.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Man The scene was clearing as unmarked cars with Custom
Border Patrol agents inside rolled out, and in the parking
lot next to the ABC store there was a lady
named Teresa or Donats, and she was handing out whistles
and she works at a nearby restaurant. And they're showing

(08:07):
the pictures. They're looking in cars and pulling people out.
If you keep following us and impeating us, we will
take you in handcuffs. The agent, one of the agents
who's anonymous in and and then a further story about
that the uh there.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
I mean for you for you going with that because
I got too interesting. Tree here from one of our
listeners listen earlier, like us as well, Kevin. He says,
the blue station withholds sending money to the federal government.
And that's like Illinois and New York and California. California
has the fourth largest economy in the world in the
world by itself as a state. California supports many of

(08:45):
these red states that they can't support themselves. The state
of California does. And what if these and that's a
question for again for Professor Horn, because not only is
he a scholar, but he's also an attorney. What if
these Blue states like Illinois, like New York, and Likelifornia
said we're not going to send any money to the
federal government. And that's the question I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna ask you, but I'm just wondering, what do

(09:06):
you think about that? What do you think would happen if.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
The if only the Blue states were the ones affect.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
We're holding no, hold their money instead of sending money,
because the money to the to the to the treasure,
the federal treasure, you know, all of a sudden money
to the federal through taxes. And California, the economies is
the fourth launchest in the entire world just by itself,
so it's the largest economy state economy in this country.
And California is subsidizing many of these red states, including Texas.

(09:37):
So what if they we've held their sending money and
you know, kind of like what the shale nations are
doing in Africa instead of sending money to the French treasure,
they're keeping the money and and in their countries and
doing it themselves and helping their country, and what if
the states like Illinois and New York and California did that.
So we're not gonna send any money in Washington, d C.

(09:57):
We keep the money here in our state capitals and
take care of folks.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Well, it's it's more than just a hypothetical. I mean,
eventually money runs out. It is a it's a finite
type of of element, and after a while, they may
not be enough to spread like that.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
It's they're not just printing money themselves, are they.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
So what you're saying, the federal government prints the money
right right right?

Speaker 3 (10:25):
I see it as after a while, it's just going
to be, you know, out of necessity.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Interesting concept because the Red states have talking they're the
ones who are discussing breaking away. You know, they're the
ones who are taking a break away from the Union,
especially Texas. You know, yes, Texas, they've been talking that
if on the utility side, they've already broke away, and
then they have problems, you know, when they don't have
enough utility because they broke away, the neighboring states can't

(10:52):
help them. So they should rethink that folks in Texas
should be aware of that and.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Chuck Norris nominated himself to be the King of Texas.
When they do that, Chuck, no, nothing stops Chuck on
a happier no, perhaps give thanks for the discounts.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
The feast will cost a little less this year.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
The Thanksgiving meals are being discounted by many many of
the area stores in and outside of Washington, d C.
And so you had to check the list of what stores.
Aga'm not going to turn this into a commercial necessarily.
It's just that the good news is that the feast
is about five percent lower than it was last year,

(11:34):
and so so finding places that have a mega surplus
of food and you should be able to have a
blessed Thanksgiving no matter which way you go. Thanks for
your time. That's the way it is, Carl on the
twenty fourth. Oh and by the way, the Dallas Cowboys
game was terrific. I'm an Dallas fan. I was hoping
the Eagles would pull it off. But man, sometimes when

(11:57):
you focus, things can happen.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
You can win.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Can so any oh did you hear that what happened?
Though supposedly Tom Brady said the N word during the game,
somebody sent me a copy of what he says. And
I'll posted on Facebook so you can check it out.
If he did, let me know if you didn't say
the N word.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
That's what they say.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Who pays attention to Tom Brady. Man, he's still a
rookie as far as yeah wow, let's keep my eyes
and ears on that guy.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
But thanks for your time, Carl.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
All right, thanks Kevin Fortune at the top. Uh, Edwin
Evans's joining us. He's sitting in the classroom ready to
join us. Grand Rising, Edyond, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 5 (12:43):
Green Rising, Carl, thank you very much for having me.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Oh man, I was excited to you.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
Until I heard that that other gentleman celebrate the Cowboys when.

Speaker 6 (12:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Acknowledging, you know, because what twenty one to nothing at halftime?
Then they come back out on fire and they still
made all kinds of mistage they tried to lose.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
Yeah, well, I didn't know what's going on with my
eagle offense sputtering in the second half.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yes, it's like they went in the locker room and
forgot that they were winning, exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
You got let me tell you this on the interview.
So people think they threw the game away. I don't
know the play calling down the stretch. Some people wonder
some money change hands because they've never seen that atrocious
play calling and the execution as well. Those are reading
all the comments.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah yeah, put on the tail feathers. Well, goo ahead.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
We had the ball with three minutes to go. It
was it was perfect. We had the perfect setup to
kill the clock and drive the ball to fill and
win the game. And it didn't happen. And normally we
could pull that off.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
So I was, oh, man, you can put that in
in a high school game, a.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Clock management.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, that's Arkham's razor right there.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's easier to get ninety nine yards than to get
that one yard.

Speaker 7 (14:15):
That's true, that's true.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
But so we talked about Mathough Edward, what's going on
at jail school? The Collegian the Baltimore Colchian School for Boys, Well,
you know.

Speaker 5 (14:28):
We're charter school. For those who don't know, Baltimore Collegiate
School for Boys is a charter school in Baltimore, Maryland,
and we service boys from fourth grade through eighth grade.
And we got started back in twenty fifteen. And the
reason why we started in the fourth grade is because
we were looking at the information which said that they

(14:51):
were building jail fills based on the number of boys
who couldn't read by third grade. They're looking ill literal
receive rates that if they couldn't read about third grade,
more than likely they would not have a successful school
career and eventually wind up in trouble in the law.

(15:11):
And so we saw that and decided, you know what,
we're going to start a school which is going to
help these boys. And we started in the fourth grade
so we could catch boys before they slipped through the cracks,
hopefully turn them around academically, and put them in good
enough shape that they could go off into high school
and then hopefully eventually go to college. And so what

(15:33):
happens with charter schools is, you know, we start off
with a five year run and then after that they
review you and decide whether they're going to give you
a renewal, and you can get a three year, of
five year, or eight year renewal. But they do that
every time a renewal ends.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
After right, hold that all right there ed wet aside
for a few moments, so take a first break for
these Monday morning, seventeen minutes after time, theyn family discussing
of school in Baltimore.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
It's a boys, all boys school.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's a Baltimore Collegian school for boys under attack for
the school board in Baltimore City. What are your thoughts?
Eight hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy six number
to call to join us, and we'll take your phone calls.
Next and ground Rising family, thanks for starting your week
with us. Twenty one minutes after the top of that,
our guest Edwin event from the Baltimore Collegian School for Boys.
They having some issues with the Baltimore City Education Department.

(16:24):
So Edwin, I'm gonna let you finish your thoughts. Tell
us what's going on.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
Sure, So, as I was sharing with your audience, you
get renewed. You get renewed every so many years.

Speaker 7 (16:35):
They take you to a review, look at all your books,
look at all you know, what's happening in the classroom,
do surveys, and then they come back with the finding
whether they want to renew you. After our first five years,
we got a three year renewal. And then at the
end during that thirdy, that second or that three year renewal,
the pandemic hit. And so.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
In the midst of the pandemic, all of our students
go home, we had to you know, educate them virtually,
where all the children across the country eventually were online learning.
And then as we come to the end of our renewal,
we come back into the building and things were just
really a little chaotic. You know, teachers that quit, it
was a big teacher shortage, children who've been you know,

(17:21):
holed up in their homes came back, a little rambunctions
in our control, and so things were really challenging. So
at the end of that third year renewal, Baltimore City was, uh,
you know, the CEO was going to recommend that they
not renew us, but then she went on it and
recommended to the Board of Commissioners to renew us. And

(17:42):
eventually the Board of Commissioners voted unanimously to extend us,
and that led us into a three year another three
year renewal, and that's where we are right now at
the third year of the second three year renewal. However,
this time the CEO has recommended to the Board of
Commissioners that they not re knew our charter and the

(18:03):
reasons that she says that, you know, we say that
we're not an academic success and that we're having, you know,
financial challenges, and so you know, I'm always you know,
forthcoming with regards to the academic not an academic success,
here's a challenge. Baltimore City boys are way behind, and

(18:25):
we wind up we can kind of become that school
where where people when they have boys that are having
academic our behavioral challenges, we wind up getting a lot
of them. And since we start in the fourth grade,
you can only imagine like every school charter of public
they get a per pupil allocation, and so you want
to keep every single student you have in your school

(18:47):
because that's how you get paid. That's how you get
the money to be able to operate even your traditional schools.
So if you're letting children go after the third grade
to go someplace for the fourth grade, typically you want them.
And so we wind up getting those boys. And what
we find is that two thirds of the young men
that come in are not proficient in math or in English,

(19:08):
and so there are two and three grade levels below
where they need to be. So our job then is
to take those boys in. Because we're in a lottery system,
it's not a selection, it's not like they apply and
we get to hand pick which boys we want. We
take all the boys. Our job is to help every
one of those boys, and we know if we don't
help them, they could wind up be out there in

(19:29):
the street, probably wind up go to jail or something
like that down the road. We know that, and so
we go to work to help those boys. We bring
in extra tutors, So we have to spend a lot
of our budget them bringing in tutors to help the
boys to learn how to read, to help boys with math,
and to do all these additional work. But what that
does is, you know, the test scorers that walk in

(19:51):
the door quite often don't jump in a year and
maybe even two as you're trying to increase them. But
they the boys do grow incrementally, and we make a
huge difference in the boys. And that's the thing about
our school is what we're designed to do is to
help boys. And our boys are ninety eight percent African

(20:13):
American boys, and so we have a building full with
outstanding teachers, many of them are men. We have probably
more men in our school working with our boys than
any other school in Baltimore, definitely of an elementary or
middle school size. We have over twenty three men that
are in there. So you got lots of males that

(20:34):
are role models, men that have want college, men that
are in the classroom teaching the boys, administering the boys,
coaching the boys, and we work on discipline, structure, and
really helping the boys understand their worth and their value.
And we push college. We push and pushed and push college,
stem education, entrepreneurship, all those things that we do to

(20:56):
actually make boys want to come to school and want
to get better. And so what winds up happening and
what has been happening for the last four years, four
years in a row, the boys who graduated from our
school in the eighth grade have now graduated from high school.
And what we have found is that our alumni, the

(21:17):
boys that leave us in eighth grade, graduate from high
school at a ninety percent rate. And that's compared to
the same boys with the same demographic in Baltimore City
whose average is sixty percent. So what we set out
to do, which was to turn these boys around and
not let them fail, is actually happening. They're graduating in a.

Speaker 7 (21:38):
Ninety percent as opposed to sixty percent.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
That said, Baltimore City still sees you know that they
look at our test scores and compare us to other
schools and say, you're not doing as well as other schools.
And what we say to them is that you're comparing
apples to orange. We're the only all boys public or
charter school in the state. And private schools or public
schools for your audience, we're not a private school. We

(22:04):
are a public school. We get our money from Baltimore
City public schools. We get the money through the State
of Maryland, so we get a per pupil allocation. We
just managed differently with our own curriculum, our own structure,
and our own mission, and so our boys. If you
were to compare us with several schools throughout the city

(22:26):
and take the girls out of the mix. When they
compare schools, they're comparing all boys school to a co
ed school. We say to them, take out the girls' data,
and let's look at the boys and all these other
schools with a similar economic, discipantaged background, and you'll see
that our boys either match those schools or in some
cases surpass those schools. And so if you're going to

(22:48):
close us on academics, you probably need to close about
another ten of your own schools because their numbers are
the same as a test. Wise, then they talk about
the finances. It is, you know, a financial challenge to
operate a charter school in Baltimore City because the chartered

(23:08):
law in the state originally said that the districts could
only hold two percent of each school's per pupil allocation.
So our schools were supposed to get ninety eight percent
of our per pupil allocation so that we could educate
our boys. But what Baltimore City does is they take
twenty five percent and tell us to operate off of
seventy five percent.

Speaker 7 (23:29):
Now, what we have to pay for out of that money.
We got to pay all of our salaries of all
of our teachers, our principals, our administrators. But we also
have to pay for our building, We have to pay
for the cleaning services, we have to pay for the facilities,
and regular schools don't have to. So the regular schools
don't have to pay for their building out of their allocation.

(23:49):
Plus they're getting their entire allocation where we're opposed at
ninety eight percent, we're only getting seventy five percent. So
what does that begin to do? That puts pressure on
us to have to make a decision and do I
pay for the tutors that help these boys who are underperforming,
or do I pay you know, do I pay my rent,
or do I pay you know, some other bills. Some

(24:11):
things is going to slip through the cracks, and it
puts a ton of pressure on us. And so what
begins to happen is, you know, we might build up
accounts payables and not have as much cash on hand.

Speaker 8 (24:25):
And so our.

Speaker 7 (24:26):
Projection shows that we would have, like at the end
of the year, fourteen days cash on end. They want
us to have sixty day cash on end, and they
want us to do not have negative assets. But it's
hard not to have negative assets if you have accounts payable.
So those are the things they're putting pressure on us
with regard to our finances, even though they're taking more
than they're necessarily supposed to. So that means we have

(24:48):
to go out and raise this money from the community.
We got to go to foundations, we got to go
to individuals and ask them, will you donate to our
school so we can educate these public school children. We're
record the traditional schools don't have to do the same thing.
And if I don't raise a half a million dollars
or more per year, it puts us in this situation

(25:08):
where they're threatening us that you know, we can't survive
based on our finances, but it's all this pressure on
us to have to raise outside money instead of using
the actual body that was dedicated for the children that
we're educating. And so that puts us in a situation
where the CEO has recommended that the school board not

(25:29):
approve us. That folk comes up on January fourteenth, so
in between that time we have to go present ourselves
and defend our case. So in December fourth at five
point thirty, there will be a virtual meeting called a
work group meeting, where we're meeting with the school board
and telling them our story everything that we can tell

(25:53):
them within four minutes. And then there's two hearings. One
on December December eleven, there is a hearing at North
Avenue two hundred East North Avenue in Baltimore at five
point thirty from five thirty to seven thirty. We asked
the public if they want to testify, they could come
down there and testify, but they have to register with

(26:16):
the school board between hours of three and five on
that day to get on the docket to be able
to testify, and they get three minutes. So that's December eleventh,
and then again on January eighth, there will also be
another two hour hearing. Once again, people have to get
down there between three and five and register and then

(26:37):
the thing takes place between five thirty and seven thirty
and then the vote happens on January to fourteenth, and
so in between that time, we're asking everybody to go
to our website Baltimore Collegiate dot com backslash Renewal, and
on that page it shows everybody how they.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
Can support us. It puts the names and address mail
addresses of all the boards of Commissioners. We ask them
to write them emails, write them letters, send them videos,
tell them how they feel. We ask people to reach out.
They can reach out to the governor. That could reach
out to the mayor and let them know how they
feel as well. We're asking them to, you know, spread

(27:19):
the word to get other people who believe that we
should have our own institutions, to educate our boys, to
get to make a difference happen in the lives there
are our boys. By going to our website and once
again ask Baltimore Collegiate. A lot of people have a
problem with spelling collegiate, so let me spell that out.
CEO L L E G I A T E Baltimorecollegiate

(27:44):
dot com backslash renewal and that will have all the
information that could go and get that information. And also
we ask people to donate. It's a donate button there too.
You can click on and donate and help us, you know,
with our financial situation, so we could build up our funds.
But we're we're fighting for the lots of black boys.
We're not just going to give up it and let

(28:04):
them make this vote without them hearing our voice and
saying to them, is it acceptable that you close the
school that gets boys to graduate from high school at
a ninety percent rate when your schools are only doing
it at a sixty percent rate. Everybody here, let me.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Jup me here for a second. There, let me jump
here for a second anyway, because a bunch of stuff
here we we want to tackle first. You know what
you just said, Can you can you put up a
flyer and put it in and get social media involved
and we'll pass it around and ask people to repost
it first. That's first because and you got to look
at it. It bigger than Baltimore. Don't don't just think
it's just Baltimore. But we got a lot of people,

(28:39):
most of our listen and not in Baltimore. Now, they
were willing to help. And these are people who are
willing to help you. So that's the first thing.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
Now.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
The second is the second be fugging of the financi Oh,
ye'll let me go to the finances, because they take
they give you seventy five percent of what you give.
Is what's a lot? Is correcting I'm saying that. And
the question is is it just your school or is
it all at the schools?

Speaker 7 (29:01):
It's all charter schools in Baltimore City. So we actually
have a case against that. We have it's fourteen of
us charter school members have put up money to get
a lawyer to challenge Baltimore City for our money, and
we were trying to get them to give us the
correct amount for the twenty twenty this twenty six school year,

(29:21):
twenty five twenties six school year, and so we had
hit them last spring with the lass, you know, basically
for the lawsuit. But that lawsuit is to be settled
with Baltimore, with the State of Maryland's Board of Education.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
So we challenge hold up the thought, right there?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Do you think because you file the lossuit there's some
sort of retribution going on here that they say they
get rid of you, they also get rid of the lawsuit.

Speaker 7 (29:44):
Well, you know, it's not just me, it's not just
our school. It's like I said, it's about thirteen other
schools that are challenging them. But you know, I let
people make their own assumptions. I'm not going to speak
on what I think that they're doing. I just tell
the facts and the fact that they had come for us.
But we are a part of the group that's challenging

(30:04):
them to give us all of our money. Because we
do that this could happen. We knew that they would
put us in a situation.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Here's another fact. There's another fact er in the school.
The population of the school across the country has dropped.
They're trying to figure out what it is, especially in
the public school system every major city, and it dropped.
Some people say it's because the ice raids, and some
people say it's not that. Some people are saying that
then moving their children to private schools. I don't know,

(30:34):
how do you see the decline in the school population
across the board, not just your school, but all and Balted,
but all the other cities as well. They's say the
same things. In fact, they're thinking about closing schools or
consolidating schools in certain cities.

Speaker 5 (30:48):
Well, what's happening? You're absolutely right, there is a shrinky
school population because the newer generations, the Millennials and gen
zas are they're not having as many children, they're.

Speaker 7 (31:00):
Not getting married as much as they've used to, they're
not having as many children, and so as.

Speaker 5 (31:06):
A result, school districts are beginning to decline. And so
when cities like Baltimore, it is a decline.

Speaker 7 (31:13):
And in a.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
City that has about seventy two thousand elementary and middle
and high school students, the charter schools have about twenty
twenty two thousand of them. So that has shrunk the
traditional population from seventy two to fifty and so they're
looking at ways, how do we recoup it. Get some
of these students back in our classrooms, and get the

(31:35):
dollars from those charter schools back to our schools. And
so the way we see it is they target the
schools that they feel are the most vulnerable, and those
are typically the black run schools. You know, there's only
a handful of us that are actually African American run
schools that the boards, you know, the people who organize
it and run it are African Americans. There are larger

(31:59):
organized nations that are primarily you know, organizer run by
people who aren't African American, and they have deeper pockets,
you know, more resources, and so they don't mess with them.
They give them nice five and eight year renewals. But
for us that we're always being challenged with three year renewals.
And you know, when they go out in the public

(32:21):
and this is what they did to us the last time,
when they go out in the public and tell them
that they're recommending that we be closed, it's not even
that the vote has gone down.

Speaker 7 (32:30):
When you do that.

Speaker 5 (32:32):
Before the vote happens, you freeze people applying to our school.
You also freeze any fundraising that I can do because
people think, well, why would I give you any funds
because you're going to close, And so's it's like damn
if you do, damn if you don't. Because they're saying
to me that you have to have more money. As

(32:52):
I go out to try to raise more, people say money.
People say, I don't know, it looks like you're going
to close, so they don't give us some money. Or
the other way we get money is by enrollment, and
so if people stop applying to our school to enroll
their kids, that reduces the money that we can get to. So,
you know, they kind of set it up. But technically

(33:12):
they're not supposed to tell the community according to their
own regulations. They go against their own regulations. Their own
regulation says on the CEO's recommendational renewal, only my board,
their board, the mayor, and the political the elected representatives
of the area where the school is is supposed to

(33:32):
be notified, not the press, not my families, not anybody else.
But what they do is they announce it to the press.
They send a letter to my schools so for us
to backpack and send it to the kids' parents. They
send an email to the parents. Then they come in
our building and they have a meeting to tell our
teachers and tell our parents what they're recommending months before

(33:57):
the vote. And that's not supposed to happen. Do you
think that I just named that they did is only
supposed to happen after the movie if they've decided not
to renew.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Us And a whold U though right there, we got
to check the latest news and when we come back
Bill in Baltimore. Once you join the Conversation family, you
can do the same thing. You can reach us at
eight hundred four five zero seventy eight to seventy six
ers help the Baltimore Cleinchian School for Boys and we'll
take your phone calls after the news this next and
Grand Rising family, thanks for starting your week with us
the fifteen minutes away from the top of the hour,
I guess is Edwin VENTI runs the Baltimore Cletian School

(34:29):
for Boys in Baltimore City and under a time from
the school board in Baltimore City, and we've got to
help them out before we go back to and though
we first you've got our frock condolences to the family
of Jimminil abdul l men some of the enormous h
rap brown He made his transition on Sunday and I
can only see this again to his son Kyrie elam In.
And if you've listened to this problem. I've heard kay

(34:50):
Kyrie's been on here several times. He's an attorney, and
also his mom, Karina l Amen also let me just
share this. We put them together with Bakari Sellers, also
an attorney. You've seen probably seeing Bacary on TV. Bacari's
dad Corvis Sellers, and uh uh Kyrie's dad when he
was ah Rapp Brown, who back in the day, we're

(35:11):
on the front line fighting for civil rights, back with Snake.
So then them two had never met, so we had
them on the program, got and put them together.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
Both the terms.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
They had a lot in common with their dad, so
I'm sure they had. They had a good time, a
good conversation between both those fellas. But coming up later
this somemore, we're gonna speak with the University of Houston's
professor Gerald Horn. Also we're going to speak with an
attorney of Lucal Science, professor doctor Marion Or. He's reading
a book about Detroit Congressman Charles Stakes. Those few of
certain age remember Charles Stakes. He was one of the

(35:41):
conveners of the Gary, Indiana event the Black Power in
seventy two, and it's also one of the founding members
of the Congression Black Caucus late this week, you're gonna
hear from futuristic researcher brother Cidika McCary, historian uh Michael
emil Temp is going to be here. Chairman Fred Hampton
will join us. Also, the Black Voters Matter Group they're
going to be year as well. So if you are

(36:01):
in Baltimore, keep you reading locked and tight on ten
ten WLB or if you're in the DMV, you're on
fourteen fifty WL. All right, as I mentioned, the bill
was holding for us in Baltimore. He's online too, grund
Rising Bill, you're on with Edwin.

Speaker 6 (36:15):
Hey, first of call, thank you first opportunity, and thank
you for having a brother. Edwin had been on because
you did a couple of things. First, I want to
invite the people in Baltimore to go visit the school.
I mean, I've been at that school many times. In
the atmosphere, man, I mean just unbelievable. So I'm not
asking people to first to go visit, because people could

(36:35):
see see it for themselves. Secondly, I just wanted to
raise the question in terms of that. You know, just
a couple of years ago, the Board of Education was
sued saying that there was not educating the children, the
students of Baltimore. So it was a suitor and about
that as well. It was a couple of schools that

(36:56):
had they was forging the attendance of the schools, and
the superintendent signed the leases on her on her way out.
So I'm kind of dismayed in terms of that. You know,
they could spend its efforts going after a school that's
actually lifting up black boys, uh A, that that's making

(37:18):
a difference in our community, that's making a lot of
us feel good in terms of the atmosphere that is
being created there, in terms of teaching the boys, giving
the boys respecting stuff. And so you know, for the
Board of Education to spend uh it's time in terms
of trying to close the school that's actually demonstrating what
they need to demonstrate. With them being suited themselves with

(37:42):
not educating the students of Baltimore is a double standard
to me. I mean, they need to be trying to
get the schools that they're controlling together because they've been
sued saying that they're not educating the children of Baltimore.
If we're talking about all the public schools that they're
sponse before so you know, to go after seven schools

(38:03):
are just ridiculous and I'm ask the people hey to
please come out and support this is school. We need
to make sure this school remain open and we need
to show that we unified in terms of standing up
with brother Edwin event and.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Bill before you go, let me just let me just
ask you if you can help because Edwin mentioned certain
days they're going to have these hearings and the question
folks should come out. If you could call us and
let us and remind us because you know, kind of
crazy around here. Just remind us that when those that
the other states are coming up, so folks can show
up because when they see numbers, they'll know that that
Edwin has supported the black community in Baltimore. And you

(38:39):
don't have to be in Baltimore. Family, you want to
support this venture if you're close by you living in
the suburbs, do the same.

Speaker 6 (38:46):
Goad Bill absolutely, and people could go on my page
because I'm going to be listening to them days of
my page as well as on Earth the Heads and
other people's gonna be listening to them them them days.
But we need a lot of help. Call so you
know we're just asking people a bunch more. Hey, look,
let's stand up, let's let's let's say that we're not
going to tolerate this here stuff and em gonn close.

Speaker 9 (39:07):
With this call.

Speaker 6 (39:08):
And this may not have nothing to do with it,
but you know Donald Trump uh said when he hired
his girl to be in charge of the educational system
that you know, basically they want to fade down public education.
So I'm saying there's a lot of pieces that we
can look at, and they definitely do not want to
educate black boys and not have to be a question

(39:30):
in terms of why do we not want to educate
black children and specially black boys.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, that's a question, but it's on us. As you say, Billy,
this is where we come on. This is where we
close the gap. We got to close the gap for
Edwin and his first school, not for him personally family,
but for the Baltimore Cleachure School for boys, for the
black boys in Baltimore City. And you know, some of
our boys they need that extra help, as he mentioned,
especially with the testing. Come in the test scores, because

(39:58):
they're coming in, they're over in a handicapp coming in
so and and Edwin's school lifts them up. By the
time they leave there, they equal to any student in
Eddy city, you know, as far as the grades of concern.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
So yeah, we've got.

Speaker 10 (40:11):
To feel that we can just speak on terms of
the suit that's against the board of education and reference
to the I'm not educating the children. Thank you?

Speaker 4 (40:20):
All right? Thanks Bill? How about that? Edwin?

Speaker 5 (40:24):
Yeah, well, I you know, once again, there there's that
information is out there in the public with regards to
the challenges from the community, with regards to the suit
that Bill is referring to. I'd be remiss if I
tried to tell you exactly where people might be able
to find the exact data on the lawsuit against the

(40:45):
school district. But it's mainly because my mind is preoccupied
or what's happening with Baltimore co leads to school for
boys and you know, the things that the boys need.
Like I suggested earlier, you know, we definitely need you know,
financial donations from the community, but we can also use
time donations because just like I said, a lot of

(41:05):
the boys need additional help with reading, they need additional
help with math, and so there may be people who
are home, they may be retired educators who want to
give back. They may be people who just are willing
to take time out of their day to come in
and say how can that help, Like with you know,
tutoring boys in math. That would be so helpful because

(41:26):
that's what they need. They need that additional love and.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Support got you eight away from the top. Down Market
in Baltimore is checking in online. Three Grant Rise and
Markey on with Edwin event.

Speaker 11 (41:38):
Hey grand Riding, Hey, Edward, thank you Carl for putting
this out, you know, out in national and edwould make
sure please that when Carl said, let everybody know, all
of his listeners know how that they can send emails
because they're gonna do it, and how they can send

(41:59):
donations to you, because that's how we rolled. But he
and Baltimore, Carl, we had to stand up a few
years ago, a few years ago, like he said, the
CEO is black, a black woman making a half a
million dollars or whatever, just getting ready to leave last time.

Speaker 8 (42:16):
All of us.

Speaker 11 (42:17):
Stood up because she had to stay here. And the
mayor of Baltimore City said, everybody do what he said.
So he hasn't even been over there, you know, so
we gotta put put it where it's at man. He
was my guest yesterday. And we have several shootings while
we're losing people. We have several shootings yesterday. Mostly we

(42:39):
have two thousand young men murdered in Baltimore City since
twenty fifteen. The number one kill of our young men
is murdered in Baltimore City. And you don't want to
support a boy's school, and they try to do the
Jedi mind trick with the charter schools. Charter schools are
bad and this, that and the other. They free preach

(42:59):
o the schools and like Bill said, really helping out
our young boys.

Speaker 12 (43:04):
Here.

Speaker 11 (43:05):
It's a beautiful atmosphere. And not only that car they have,
they wear tithes and all that kind of stuff. So
everybody looked like us. That's against Edwin and people like that,
and it's ridiculous.

Speaker 7 (43:19):
Mayor four one.

Speaker 11 (43:20):
Oh three nine six forty nine hundred four one oh
three nine sick forty nine hundred he say everybody do
what he say, so tell Sandalis's the back off.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Thanks, thank you, Mark. And you know, if somebody knows
somebody who knows somebody who knows the mayor and the
government for that matter, so please let them get involved
in this, and so let's save the school for black boys.
I mean it should be a pride thing at least that,
you know, if they should be saying what you guys.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
Need, we need your school.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's permanent to the school be in Baltimore helping black boys.
Whatever you need, we're gonna help you, instead of trying
to find ways to eliminate because it seems this is
what they do and they're trying to nitpick and found
a way, well, figure out some way not not to
have you guys, you know, operating helping our young black boys.
I maybe out I may be wrong on saying that,
but I think they should be more overtly going bending

(44:14):
over backwards more than anything else, trying to help you
guys and make sure that the school stays open open
for black boys, so that if they want to look
at it in the longest form, just like Mark said,
with what's going on with the crime and these young boys,
at least they're not out, you know, trying to become
squeeche boys or something like that and later on going
down the wrong path. They're in school trying to get

(44:35):
an education. So they should be fully supporting this and
I'm appealing just to all our listeners, not just in Baltimore,
wherever you can hear us before Edwin Lee is going
to give us a whole information, especially for donations, because
I understand when they talk about they're going to close
the school, people don't want to donate because they're maybe
they're thrown away their money. They don't want to register
their children because they figure the school is going to
be closed. So that's that's that's wrong. That's a no no,

(44:56):
that's a violation that should be stopped right away. But
let me ask you this though. Did you have an
attorney working with you or can you get some some
people to do some And there's another issue here because
if you don't, we should have some some of some
legal scholars and even going to law school who can
help you do some pro boner work for your helping
with this issue.

Speaker 7 (45:15):
And do you have any Yeah, well, actually on my board,
I have a couple of attorneys on our on our
own board who you know, wait and and help us.
But then there's some like I have kind of reached
out to a lawyer or to to look in this
particular instance where they're going against their own regulation with

(45:37):
regards to notification and telling the community and telling people
other than who they were supposed to tell the recommendations to,
because to me that that causes damage. It caused damage
the last time, it will cause damage this time as well.
And so that's something that I am looking into to
see if I can get help. But I'm always open

(45:57):
to more help. But it's there's a challenge. If we
have to hire the lawyers, it makes it much more
challenging just because our budget is that tight. And so,
you know, if there are any listeners out there willing to,
you know, take a look at what, you know, what
we're dealing with, particularly with regards to whether or not
the city is following their own regulations and what our recourses,

(46:19):
that would be extremely helpful. And people can give me
a call at our school at four four three six
four two five three two zero once again that's four
four three six four two five three two zero, and
then they can go to our website again at Baltimore
Collegiate dot com backslash renewal Baltimore Collegiate and Collegiate is

(46:44):
c O L L E G I A T E.
Baltimore Collegiate dot com backslash renewal. And on that page
it has all of the information that people will need
to know, how to communicate with the Board of Education,
how to reach the mayor, how to reach the governor.
Will have templatoon there from letters. If people need to

(47:07):
get a framework on how to write a letter, it'll
happen right now.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Hold up thought right there, I'm just looking at the clock, Edwin.
We got to check the trafficking weather a different since
when we come back, I'll let you give all that
information again. Family, you two can check in with us
and join this conversation. Edwin event from the Baltimore Clechian
School for Boys. They're trying to close down that school
and we've got to help him. We can reach us
at eight hundred and four five zero seventy eight seventy six.
Weal ticket phone calls after the trafficking weather together this

(47:31):
next and grand rising family, and thanks for starting your
week with us. Three after the top that with our guest,
Edwin Avon. Edwin's from the Baltimore Cleechire School for Boys.
Ma'ma tell you we're going to speak with doctor Ors
has written a book about Charles Diggs. But let's finish
up with Edwin. Edwin, before you give out that information again,
Alex has drawing us from alexandres online. Two grand rising, Alex,

(47:51):
you're honored with Edwin event.

Speaker 13 (47:58):
The toy, Can you hear me?

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Sure? Go ahead?

Speaker 8 (48:01):
Hello?

Speaker 13 (48:01):
Okay, Yes, My question to your guests is why he's
not really telling the truth about the funding for the schools.
If you do your research and you should know as
an educator that it's the Democratic Party that's blocking the
funding for both public and charter schools, you need to

(48:26):
speak about that. Donald Trump has nothing to do with
as far as the funding for the schools. It's a
Democratic Congress that that blocked forty six million, and they
also blocked the number ten million for chartered schools.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
All Right, before I let him respond, Alex, let me
challenge you. I regardless who's blocking the funds, I want
you to help this school and all your Republican friends
will take that money as well.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
Okay, but I thank you for.

Speaker 10 (48:59):
Well the funding. The funding is there.

Speaker 13 (49:01):
This is what I want to tell the public is there.
It's the Democratic Party that's blocking.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Who's but Alex, Alex, Alex, we don't care who's blocking.
We want you to help. You see there's somebody blocking
it could be it doesn't matter who's blocking it's being blocked.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Alex, what.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Kevin da Alex because he doesn't understand what's trying to
have people there. We don't care whether who's blocked. We
just care who's blocking it's being blocked. Let's help the students.
The students is what's concerned. Not Democrats, Republicans, now Giants fans,
now Yankee fans, not Lake of fans. It's who's blocking it.
We need to help them. It doesn't matter who's that
take off, All right, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (49:42):
Edward responds, Alex, this is Edwin Avans from Baltimore. Could
be just group of boys. What you're saying has absolutely
nothing to do with what I'm dealing with. And like
Carl suggested to you, and like I asked, go to
my website Baltimore Collegiate dot com and you can click
on donate, and you too, you can donate to the school.

(50:06):
This this has nothing to do with the Republicans. And
nobody even on this show talked about Republicans blocking the money.
Nobody talked about that. We're talking about what's going on
with Baltimore Collegiate Schoup for boys. So thank you very much.
But you can donate and everybody else listening can donate
at Baltimore Collegiate dot com. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
And the problem is that, you know, just just help
the students. Man, it doesn't matter who who's blocking. That's
not what we're discussing right now. So you always get
involved and put on these politicals. We don't want to
go there because it's just a waste of time because
folks already understand what we're talking about. Really, it's just
the waste of time arguing whether Democrat or Republicans. Oh,
good goodness. Yeah, you know, some people it's funny, weal

(50:47):
because we talk about this as a class and we're learning.
Some people just just the message just passes them every day.
They just don't get it. The mind just don't closed.
They just don't get it. We're trying to help some
black boys. I don't even care what school it is.
If you just care about our people, it is. If
you just care about our people, this is a black
school that needs help in Baltimore City. It's a black

(51:09):
school with black boys teaching black boys. It could be
it could be in tim Book two if that's the
way you think we need to help each other, because
nobody else is going to do it. Whether you're Republican
or Democrats, we're not or as I mentioned, lak of
fans and giant fans. It doesn't matter. This help some
black boys here. This is what we do it. So
Edwin give us the information how we can help you.

Speaker 7 (51:31):
Once again, if everyone can go to our website at
Baltimore Collegiate dot com, backslash renewal, Baltimore Collegiate dot com,
dot dot org dot com, Baltimore Collegiate dot com backslash renewal.
Once you get on that page, it gives you all
the ways that.

Speaker 5 (51:50):
You can help us. You can. It has the names
and numbers or the names and email addresses of all
the members of the school board. Will have the name,
you know, the information to reach the mayor, the governor.
We have templates of letters that people can use. We
have backdrops that they can put on their if they
go on a zoom meeting or something like that to

(52:12):
watch the hearings, we ask them that they download our
backdrop and put that on and so that we have
a sea of people with our backdrop on there. We
want you to write, We want you to email, we
want you to send videos. We post. If you see
our information online or in social media, we post it,
so that's your community sees it as well. But we

(52:35):
just want to overwhelm the you know, our mayor, our city,
our city council, our state delegates. We want to overwhelm
them with the you know voices being heard that we.

Speaker 7 (52:47):
Want the school.

Speaker 5 (52:48):
The school who's graduates are graduating from high school at
a ninety plus percent rate and going off to college.
We want the school to exist because we are the bridge.
We're the bridge from that third grade for them to
get to high school. And a lot of these boys
are lost in that space of time, be from that
third grade to eighth grade. If they can.

Speaker 7 (53:09):
Never learn how to read and do maths, they give
up and they drop out. And so we're the bridge
that keeps them focused, helps them get their skills up,
and by the time they leave us, they can actually
hang in high school and graduate at a higher percentage
than the city. And so that's what we're focused on.
Between test scores and everything like that. You know, we

(53:30):
typically don't do extremely well on these standardized tests, but
that's not the end all be all when it comes
to the success of the individuals, it's the determination, it's
the grit, it is the structure that we give them,
the discipline. These are the things that we're giving them
in our school. Plus we love on them. We let
them know that, hey, young man, you're intelligent. Don't let

(53:52):
anybody tell you you're not. And we help them develop that.
And so that's what makes us different.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
And appeal appeal to editing true as well.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Get the law enforcement agencies too, because makes it job
easier if these boys are in school, they're not on
the street doing things they shouldn't be doing. They're not
squeezing kids hustling on the street. Makes their job a
lot easier if they're in classes. So please reach out
to the law enforcement of the police officials and county
officials as well, you know, to help you on this

(54:24):
because they they should have a voice in this. Because
because it's tax pays money all around that's being spent.
And this is an issue about voting, you know, going
back to what alex and Alexander was talking about voting
Democrats and republic But it goes back to voting again.

Speaker 5 (54:38):
Yeah, so it does.

Speaker 7 (54:39):
It does.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
So ed when it give us again. How can folks
reach you real quick?

Speaker 7 (54:43):
Yeah, it's it's They could call us at four four
three six four to two five three two zero once
again four four three six four two five three two
zero and they can ask for me edwin event or
they can go to our website at ball to more
collegiate dot com backslash renewal, and there they can find

(55:06):
all the information that they need to help us to
do and to be in this fight with us once again.
The dates that are coming up December fourth, five thirty pm,
we will be on defending ourselves. There will be a
link to the website where the where this hearing will
take place on our website, but more importantly on the

(55:27):
Baltimore City Public Schools website. They will have a link
to that meeting on December fourth. Then on December eleventh,
we have hearings at five thirty to seven thirty. If
people want to testify, they have to register on that
day between three o'clock and five o'clock PM to register
and support us. And then again on January eighth, there

(55:47):
is another hearing, another two hour hearing. Once again, people
register from three o'clock to five o'clock on that day.
Those hearings will be at two hundred East North Avenue,
the headquarters of Baltimore City Public Schools will be there.
We'll have our families. There are boys there and we're
asking the community to come out there. But in the meantime,
making as much noise as you can, reaching out to

(56:10):
that border commissioners, reaching out to our mayor, our governor,
letting them know that a school like this is super important.
I know I believe in my heart and I'm a
praying man.

Speaker 5 (56:20):
So I've already prayed on and claimed the victory. But
now we need to do the work. And so we
really appreciate all the support of everybody all across the
country who can help us. Everybody across the country to donate.
Everybody across the country can write an email. So we
appreciate Brother's insistant all over the country.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Anybody who believes in educational Black boys matter, please join
this event for us and help the school, the Baltimore
Cleature School for Boys, Edwin. Thank you and thank you
and keep us in the loop.

Speaker 7 (56:50):
Thank you so much, Carl, I truly appreciate you. You
have a blessed day, my brother.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
All right, same to you twelve after the top hour
and let's move on now family. Next time guest is
a doctor Marion Orr, doctor or grand Rising. Welcome to
the program.

Speaker 7 (57:06):
Good morning, Good morning, thanks for having me in. Good
morning to all your listeners out there.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, we have a ritual here for our first time.
I guess so we'd like to hear a little bit
about you. How did you get to where you are
right now?

Speaker 7 (57:19):
Oh? Well, listen. I'm a product of Savannah State College.
I was born and raised in Savannah, Georgia, working class
parents and a commuter to college there in Savannah State
now called Savannah State University a call there. I studied
political science as an undergraduate student, Carl. I was taught

(57:42):
by one of the most brilliant political sciences in the
country at the time. His name was Haynes Walton, Junior
Haines like the T shirt maker, his last name was
Walton and doctor Walton taught political science as Savannah State
for about twenty five years of nineteen six nineteen ninety two,
and I learned from him, and that's what I continue

(58:07):
to go on and earn. My THHD at the University
of Maryland College Park in political science so that's how
I got my start. I taught at Duke and now
I've been at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island. Carl
for the past twenty five, almost twenty six years.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Interested in the Ivy League school Any difference around the
Ivy League than the other schools that you taught at.

Speaker 7 (58:32):
Well, I taught that Duke before I came up here,
and there's a slight, slight, slight difference. It's a very
interesting environment and one which I've worked really hard to
thrive in. In terms of an academic researcher, I must
say this's the students here at Brown are very wonderfully
young people. It's been an honor and pleasure to tc.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Sell folk all right, fourteen after top Now you've written
several books, but decided a book do a book on
Charles A.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Line.

Speaker 7 (59:02):
Well, Carl, I learned about Congressman Charles C. Diggs Junior
down at Savannah State Professor Walton Haynes Walton Jr. Who
was a brilliant political scientist. Professor Walton, by the way,
Carl literally created the sub field of black politics in

(59:22):
American political science. He created the study of our politics.
He was a key architect, and I was blessed Carl
to be under his tutelage for a number of years.
He remained my friend until he passed away in twenty thirteen.
I'm just honored to put his name out there to

(59:42):
your listeners. And in the courses that professor taught Professor
Walton taught down at Savannah State, Charles Diggs came up
often Walton taught in any other courses there. He was
a small teaching school at the Savannah State. For example, Carl,
when Professor Walton taught American politics, he would teach his

(01:00:07):
students about the presidency and the critical role that the
president played Article one of our Constitution. He would talk
about the Supreme Court and how the Court supposed to
rule over these trials that come before them. And then
he would talk about the legislature, the Congress, and there

(01:00:28):
he would tell us about Charles Diggs Junior and the
fact that Charles Diggs Junior was the founder, the founder
of the Congressional Black Caucus. So he would come up
in that course. When Professor Walton taught urban politics course
on cities, Diggs would come up in that course. Because

(01:00:50):
Walton was very careful to teach his students that Washington,
d C. A major city, was a unique city, and
he would tell us for his own ample that Charles
Diggs Junior was the father of home rule for Washington, DC.
So he would come up in Professor Walton's urban politics classes.

(01:01:12):
And then finally, when Professor Walton taught a course on
African politics, which I took from him, Bigs would come
up in that that course, Carl, because Diggs. A few
people may not realize this, but Diggs was the leader

(01:01:32):
of the American anti part time movement in this country.
In fact, you could argue that the American anti a
part time movement literally started in Congressman Diggs a congressional office.
So I learned about him an undergraduate school, Carl. I'd
go on to the University of Maryland to study political

(01:01:53):
science to earn a PhD. And I still learn more
about Diggs. And after being a professor for many years,
I discovered that no one, no one had written a
book on this remarkable American leader, whom I have learned
about since I was seventeen eighteen years old, So about
ten eleven years ago, I decided to take the plunge

(01:02:17):
and to write this book called the House of Diggs.
It is the first biography, a comprehensive biography of Congressman Diggs.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Hold that though right there I step aside for a
few moments, and of course the Congressman Diggs was instrumental
and steading of the Black Power Conference in Gary, Indiana
in seventy two.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
That's what I was looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Family, you want to join our conversation with our guest,
doctor Orr. He's written a book called The House of
Diggs's about Detroit Conshman Charles Diggs. Reach out to us
at eight hundred and four five zero seventy eight seventy
six and we'll take your phone calls next and grand
Rising family, thanks for starting your week with us again.
I guess it's Professor Marion Orr. Dr Or teaches of
Brown University in rhode On, and he's also written a

(01:02:59):
book about Charles Diggs, Congressman Charles Digs, who represented Detroit. Professor,
let me ask you this when I heard about this
book and I was thinking and some of the things
you mentioned that the Congressman Diggs, did you know founding
a Congression Black Caucus, what he did against the Ponte
South Africa, the seventy two Black Powamade and Gary. I
was trying to think of a comparison, any person, whether

(01:03:23):
it be in the Caucus or just outside the caucas
who could compare what Diggs did. They all came up short.
They all paled in comparison. Could you find it? Do
you know anyone right now on the scene that you
could compare with Congressman Diggs?

Speaker 7 (01:03:39):
Well, Carl, let me guess say. I subtitled the book.
The book is called House of Biggs, and it's subtitle
The Rise and Fall of America's most consequential Black Congressman
Charles C. Diggs, Junior. When I went through the archives
down to Howard University, and I visited other HARP archives

(01:04:01):
around the country, interviewed many people who knew Congressman Digs,
including members of the Congress who served with him. I
just came away with the conclusion that of all the
men and women Black men and women who served in
the US Congress, this guy just ranked very high. In fact,

(01:04:21):
he could very well be the most consequential. Let me
guess at this. When you examined the record of Diggs
and look at the other members of Congress, white, black, liberal, conservative,
Republican and Democrat. This guy would rank high on anyone's

(01:04:41):
a measure. He was a very serious congress member, a
policy oriented congress member who really tried hard to get
things done. So, to answer your question, no, there's very
few that can stand next to this guy in terms
of the kinds of tangible, tangible accomplishments.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
And having said that, though, professor, is it is it
because the generational thing is because what was going on
back then is compared to what's going on now.

Speaker 7 (01:05:15):
Well, that could be the case. But also again the
sort of legacy that that that he left that we
typically don't recognize. For example, if you fly in in
the airplanes these days, you probably don't realize that Diggs
played a major role in desegregating commercial commercial air travel,

(01:05:42):
both down at the airport terminal level and in terms
of employment. Uh So, his legacy is just so strong.
You mentioned you mentioned, for example, the anti part time movement.
There his legacy again still very strong. We could lay
for example, the election of Nelson Mandela to some extent

(01:06:05):
to Digg's row in Congress. It could very well have
been part of the times, but it's also the tangible,
tangible legacy that this leader left behind.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Twenty five minutes of the top of our family. Just
checking in our guess if professor or Marion or teachers
of Brown University has written a book about Charles Diggs
called The House of Diggs and interesting, you got a
question reach out to us at eight hundred and four
five zero seventy eight seventy six. Now in the book
you mentioned that the Diggs got a trainload of Detroit's
to come to DC to watch him being sworn in.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
What was behind that?

Speaker 7 (01:06:42):
Well, it really goes to the extent back to his
upbringing in Detroit. Diggs was born in nineteen twenty two.
He was the son of the Great Mike Grayson. His parents,
his father, Charles Diggs Senior, moved to Detroit from Mississippi
and his mother many Digs, came to Detroit from Tennessee

(01:07:04):
doing the Great Migration, and so the parents Carl would
form a very prosperous funeral home called the House of Dicks.
And the House of Digg's funeral home in Detroit was
the leading black funeral parlor if you will, in the
city in the fifties and sixty if you were black

(01:07:26):
and died in Detroit, you were highly likely to be
buried by the Bigs family. So it became very very
well known, very prosperous. If you will, the father, Carl
will parlay the success of the funeral home into electoral
politics and would win office. He would win a state

(01:07:48):
Senate seat in Michigan, in fact, becoming in nineteen thirty six,
the first black Democrat elected to the Michigan State Senate.
So the father was very, very popular, very civic minded,
a big important leader in Detroit in Michigan quite frankly
from the thirties until the nineteen sixties. It was the

(01:08:10):
father's idea. The father's idea Carl, once his son got
elected in nineteen fifty four, to organize this train ride
where he would bring more than four hundred largely black
Americans from Detroit to Washington, d c. In January of

(01:08:31):
nineteen fifty five for them to witness the swearing in
of Michigan's first black congress member. The Diggs family was
very very close to the Detroit black community. They were
well like. The funeral home was an institution in Detroit.

(01:08:53):
In fact, the funeral home sponsored a radio program that
Congressman Diggs hosted every Sunday. They also sponsored charitable charitable events.
They sponsored a little league baseball and softball and basketball.
They were very supportive of the black community, and the
black community loved the Diggs family because they were really

(01:09:17):
good people. So the BIG's father, Carl, wanted Black Detroit
to be a part of the celebration of the election
of his son of Michigan's first black congress member, and
so the father organized as train ride and they drove
rode the train from Detroit overnight to the swearing and

(01:09:43):
ceremony the next morning down in Washington, d C. It
was a wonderful scene. I enjoyed writing about that because,
you know, can you imagine seeing all these black folk,
you know, first of all organizing themselves at the Michigan
train station and then landing down and Union Station in Washington, DC.
It was a real scene and one that many people

(01:10:05):
wrote about later on.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Yeah, just a visual on that's just an outstanding thank you,
Yes family.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
Just checking in.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Professor Marion Ors, I guess the teachers of Brown University
is a police SCIA professor has reading a book about
Charles Diggs. And if you don't know about Charle's Big Diggs,
you should He's touched so many of us in different ways.
Eight hundred and four or five zero, seventy eight to
seventy six. Bobs calling from Buffalo, has a question for you.
Is online one grand rising Bobby on the professor Orr, Yes.

Speaker 14 (01:10:34):
Sir, blessed love, Thank you doctor professor for your research
for brother Diggs. I ran into him in seventy two
at the Gary Convention, Gary National Black Political Convention, and
I thank him for being one of the co conveners
of the convention. There was a point when there was

(01:10:58):
a voice vote token and he miscalled the voice vote,
and the body got highly upset and they went to
executive session and they came back. Barker Mary Baraka took
the lead. I was wondering if you could mention about
the Gary convention. Excuse me, And no one wants to

(01:11:19):
be known for their any mistakes or any mistakes they
may have made. But how would you compare Diggs to
Adam Clinton Powell and his power or in his work
in the Congress.

Speaker 13 (01:11:34):
Yeah, so that's the cool question, sir.

Speaker 7 (01:11:36):
You know, listen, thank you for your for your question.

Speaker 6 (01:11:40):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:11:41):
Diggs played a major role at the National Black Political
Invention in nineteen seventy too. Let me add I don't
think that convention would have occurred had it not been
for Congressman Diggs, because many of his colleagues in the
Congression of Black caucuss was very little being connected with

(01:12:02):
the black militants and black radicals like a mirror of Baraka. Baraka,
as you may recall, was not only talking about holding
this convention, but he also was pushing for a Black
political party. So all of our black leaders were Democrats.
So there was real reluctance, real reluctance on behalf of
many of the Congressional Black Caucus members, and they were

(01:12:24):
about thirteen or so members at that point to be
involved in the convention. But listen, you really could not
have a Black political convention in nineteen seventy two and
not have the Congressional Black Caucus involved in it, because
the Caucus at that particular moment was really the symbol,

(01:12:48):
if you will, of black politics Diggs. Diggs was a
very strategic political leader who really tried to work with
a bronx rectum of Americans. He firmly believed that as
a racial minority and as a numerical minority in particular,

(01:13:09):
that Black Americans had to have a broad coalition of support.
Hints Diggs was willing to work for black radicals and
let's say black conservatives like William Dawson, the Congressman from
Chicago who served from nineteen forty three until early nineteen seventies.

(01:13:29):
So at the convention, Diggs plays a big role because
he's really bringing in the caucas and other elected officials
at the time. So he plays a very very important role.
I write about the scene that you mentioned, brother, when
he makes the back call at I think that Saturday

(01:13:51):
at the convention. I write about that and what happened
to him at that particular, that particular moment. How does
one compare Charles Diggs with Adam Clayton Powell. I do
a little bit of this in the front part of
the book. And let me say this, Adam Clayton Powell
was a very very significant and important Black American leader

(01:14:14):
in fact, in fact, from the time he got elected
in nineteen forty two he took office in forty three,
he literally immediately became one of the countries leading black
spokes persons that you will, So from nineteen forty three
until the rise of Doctor King, at the Montgomery bus boycott.

(01:14:37):
Really Powell was dominated. He dominated the media coverage of
Black America. He was a minister in Harlem, he was
an activist minister, and he was a militant race leader.
If you will, I argue in the book that Adam

(01:14:58):
Clayton Powell really overshadowed Uh Digs because Diggs was somewhat quiet, unassuming,
a kind of person, and for a good part of
his career he served with with Powell and the and
the media. You see, the media was drawn to Powell

(01:15:18):
because he was demonearing, he was a great speaker, he
was handsome, and so I argue in the book that
that that that Powell, if you will, overshadowed Uh Congressman Digs.
But when you began to look seriously at their records,
at what they were able to achieve as legislator to

(01:15:40):
us and Congress members, you really have to uh come
to the conclusion that Digs achieved much more.

Speaker 5 (01:15:51):
Let me guess act.

Speaker 7 (01:15:52):
Let me guess at that because Diggs had a reputation
of being a serious legislator. He he is the person
how civil rights leaders reach out to in Congress when
they wanted something done, because they knew they knew that

(01:16:12):
Diggs would follow through, okay. Read the record of Adam
Clayton Powell. He didn't often follow through, okay, and this
is why many of the civil rights leaders oftentimes didn't
trust him, if you will. So that's part of what
I write about in the book. But my book is
focused on Diggs and the tremendous work that he accomplished

(01:16:37):
while in Congress. This is a person who's almost been forgotten.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
All right, twenty five away from the top of that family.
Just checking in as doctor Marion or it's written a
book about Charles Diggs, and you can reach him at
eight hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy six. J's
calling from the Motor Cities online. Two Grand Rise and Jay,
you're wund with doctor.

Speaker 9 (01:16:58):
Orr and Grant Rising see your guests. I want to
congratulate him on his book, and I can't wait to
purchase it, especially because for most of my young life
and young adult life, Congressman Diggs was my congressperson, and

(01:17:19):
so you know, I'm intrinsically connected with so many other
things you're saying. When you mentioned the train station, I
lived like five blocks away from the train station.

Speaker 5 (01:17:32):
They refurbished that station.

Speaker 9 (01:17:34):
To understand, yes, the yeah, Ford Motor Company kind of
took it over. They refurbished it and it sat veaking
for a long time. You really caught my eye when
you talked about the name of the book, the House
of Diggs, because personally they handled my oldest sister and

(01:17:55):
my dad's funeral for a while in the sixties, in
the early at nineteen seventy one on my dad past
and saying Congressman Big even though he was, you know,
busy doing all the political things, took the time out
to make sure that things were right with both of
those U services. And you know that they provide Jay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Hold on a second. We're gonna step aside for a
few moments here. I want you to stay on the line.
We got to check the news and trafficking weather in
our different cities. It's twenty three minutes away from the
top of our family. That's Jay calling from Detroit and
also speaking with professor or Professor doctor Orr has written
a book called A House of Digs about Charles Diggs.
I didn't know I'm learning so much about Charles Diggs.
I just thought he was you know, I knew the
things that we talked about, I didn't know all the

(01:18:39):
other stuff that's being shared with us this morning. You've
got a question, you can reach Professor Warr by reaching
us at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight
seventy sixty. Well take your phone calls after the news
trafficking weather, It's next and grind rising family. Thanks for
starting a week with us at fifteen minutes away from
the top. There with our guess doctor Maren or teachers
at Brown University has reach the book about Charles Diggs,

(01:19:01):
the former Detroit congress has called the House of Diggs.
Before we go back to him and Jay in the
motives City Lemon, just offer our condolences to the family
of Jamil Abdul l Men. Some of you knows h
Rap Brown of listening this program heard his son on here,
Kyrie l m Man. Kyrie's an attorney now. And also
a condolcius to Kyrie's mom, Karima lm In as well. Also,

(01:19:22):
we're going to have our condolces to the family and
the fans of reggae singer and actor Jimmy Cliff. Some
of you have seen his movie The Hearder. They Come
Jimmy Cliff passed away this morning. He was eighty one.
Coming up later this morning, though, we're going to speak
with Professor Gerald Horn from the University of Houston, and
later this week you're gonna hear from futuristic researcher brother
Sidika McCary, historian Michael m Otep he's from Detroit. Also

(01:19:44):
Chairman Fred Hampton will be here and also Black Votes Matter.
They're going to join us. So if you are in
baltimore'll make sure you keep you radio locked in tight
on ten ten WLB free in the DMV family who
were on fourteen fifty w L. All right, Jay, I'll
let you finish your question for doctor Orr.

Speaker 9 (01:20:00):
Okay, thank you. I just want to concur what the
doctor said about how the Diggs family was legendary and
also beloved, you know, in the city, you know, starting
with his father who started that business in the Paradise
Valley Black Bottom area, which is historic in itself, and

(01:20:23):
the racism that he was subjected to to even you know,
start his business and where they could even bury the
blacks from Detroit, which is a whole story in itself.
But the question I wanted to ask is to the doctor,
how do you think Representative Diggs would feel about the

(01:20:47):
current political atmosphere, especially relegated to Detroit fire as our
representation that we have now we don't you know, predominantly
still a predominantly black, but we don't have any black
representative in Congress, you know, uh to leave and Tanadar

(01:21:08):
as our representatives and kind of due to the redistrictive,
the gere mandering that they did here in Michigan off
you know, which kind of uh alleviated some of the
black political power for us coming from Detroit national and
statewide too. But how do you think the congressmen would

(01:21:30):
feel about that? And last thing I wanted to say,
I think people all the congressional black congress members now
should read your book to get some insight on, you know,
the power that they do have and execute it in
the proper manner.

Speaker 5 (01:21:47):
That's a good that's a that's a good point.

Speaker 7 (01:21:50):
My brother. Let me get ship to a couple of
couple of things, you know, in terms of how congres
is behaving today, what's happening today? Uh, you know, the
framers of the Constitution designed Congress to be a place
of bargaining and compromised and that's part of what Diggs

(01:22:12):
had to do when he served. Let me just tell
your listeners. He served from nineteen fifty five to nineteen
eighty and so these would look at the Congress today
and say, really, they're not doing what the Framers design
the Congress to do. That is to be an institution
of bargaining and compromised. And if you read my book,

(01:22:35):
you see that at times Diggs had to make some
serious compromises to move things forward. So he would look
at Congress and say, they're not doing what the Framers envisioned.
The other thing that I think he would also look
at and say, well, Congress is not doing the kind

(01:22:56):
of oversight the administration at the Framers envision. And this
is part of what Diggs was so effective at as
a Congress member doing his tenure in Congress, that is,
using his oversight authority to make certain that the executive

(01:23:17):
branch is doing what Congress intended it to do. Diggs
firmly believed that black representation matters, and so he would
today be pushing for Detroit and other communities where black
people can mobilize and elect one of their own to

(01:23:39):
do just that. It matters. Let me just give you
a good example of this. I mentioned earlier that Diggs
played a role in desegregating commercial air travel. He played
a big role in that, and especially in terms of employment. Pilots,
airline attendants fight the tennis rather and the engineers, those

(01:24:02):
folks who are owned the airplane. In nineteen fifty four,
Diggs defeated a Citty incumbent, a Democrat incumbent named George O'Brien.
George O'Brien was white liberal Democrat who voted liberally in Congress. Okay.

(01:24:25):
O'Brien flew from Detroit to Washington, d C. Every week,
back and forth as a member of Congress for some
twenty something years. Diggs defeated him in nineteen fifty four
and began to take the same flight back and forth
from Detroit to Washington, d C. But Diggs saw something

(01:24:49):
different that O'Brien never never saw. And this is this
Diggs imediately realized that there were no black pilots. There
were no black they called them stewardess then or flight attendant.
There were no black engineers. All the black folks who
worked for the major airlines, you know, did the kind

(01:25:10):
of sweeping the luggage. They weren't on the airplane, and
Diggs understood that black Americans could fly airplanes because he
was a Tuskegee airman down in Alabama. My point is this,
Diggs would come into office and he would immediately began

(01:25:30):
to push Delta TWA and the other major airlines at
that period to hire black people to be on the airplane.
And you see him in my book. I write about
this in the book. He's working with Vice President Lyndon
Johnson to make certain that these airlines open up the

(01:25:52):
space for Black Americans. This is why I say black
representation matter. O'Brien in the Liberal White Democrat flew on
the same airplane that digs and never ever raised this
question about why is it that African American Americans can't

(01:26:12):
be pilots, Why is it black women at the time
could not be flight attendants. Why couldn't black folk be
engineers on the airplane? Black representation really matters. And I
think that's just one example. And if Diggs were here today,
he would be saying the same thing that it matters.

Speaker 9 (01:26:32):
Okay, well, thank you so much for that, because does
your book talk about his interaction with our other legendary
congress person from Detroit, John Congress Junior, do you kind
of go into.

Speaker 5 (01:26:45):
That and yes, thank you for that question.

Speaker 7 (01:26:49):
Let me tell you this, my brother, I had a
wonderful opportunity to talk to many of the men and
women who served the Congress and Digs on Capitol Hill,
including John Conyers. I met with him in his Detroit office,
and he talked glowingly, glowingly about Diggs and how Diggs

(01:27:10):
used his seniority. Let me just remind your listeners that
Conyers came in to office in nineteen sixty five, haven't
been elected in nineteen sixty four, ten years, ten years
after Diggs, you know, got elected. And what Conyers told
me was that how Diggs, you know, helped him learn
what's what to do down in Capitol Hill. So he

(01:27:35):
spoke fondly of Diggs and how Diggs used his seniority
to advance the cause of civil rights and to push
for a freedom for Black Africans on the continent.

Speaker 9 (01:27:50):
Well, I got goosebump over here talking.

Speaker 7 (01:27:55):
You should get this book, man, because this Diggs was
just a phenomenal, phenomenal American leader. Let me you ask
about how he worked with Congress. Here's what I discovered
Biggs worked well with almost everyone. He had this He
had this, He had this demeanor about him that allowed

(01:28:15):
him to work with for a mirror of Iraka, for example,
the black radical, a militant, and he was able to
work with Bill Dawson, the conservative of black congressman from
from from Chicago. And the men and women who I
interviewed and talked to really attributed that to his his demeanor.

(01:28:37):
He was quiet, unassuming, not a pushover. Gonna get me wrong,
He was not a pushover, but he knew how to
work with people, how not to sort of burn bridges
that he may need later on. He was just a
stellar strategic legislator who knew how to operate in the Congress,

(01:28:59):
who knew who knew, and realized that when he came
to Congress, my brother, he was only one of three
three black men serving in Congress at the time, four
hundred and thirty five people in the House, only three
were I think an American, and so he had to

(01:29:20):
figure out how do.

Speaker 10 (01:29:20):
You maneuver in that kind of.

Speaker 7 (01:29:22):
Environment to push for civil rights, to push for anti
apartheid legislation, you see. And he was just a strategic
person who really wanted us to what he could in
that position in Congress to advance the cause for freedom
for us here in America and for freedom for our

(01:29:43):
brothers and sisters on the continent.

Speaker 9 (01:29:46):
Oh well, thank you very much, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:49):
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
Two Away from the topic, I come up on a
breakthrough assuming I got a tweet question from another detroitter
for you, doctor or treatd says, I'm so glad to
hear more about the great legacy of Charles Diggs. Most
people from Detroit don't really want to talk about him.
As you say, by the time I got to college,
I only heard about Digs's scandal because I went to
school with his children. Can you tell me what happened

(01:30:12):
or what changed?

Speaker 7 (01:30:15):
Well, if that Carla asked him about the scandal, mister Nelson,
brother Carl.

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
I think that's what it is.

Speaker 7 (01:30:24):
Well, you know, my book is ubtitled The Rise and
Fall of America's most Consequential Black Congressman. And uh, it's unfortunate,
brother Carl. We could do wonderful things in our life,
and if we do something bad or wrong, oftentimes it's

(01:30:47):
that thing that people might most remember. And this may
very well be the case for congressmen Diggs, who, as
the caller is hitting at, had got involved in a scandal.
Bigs say this.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Right there, doctor Or, we got the traffic weather one
more time, Yeah, address that issue for us. Three minutes
away from the Tave family, Doctor ors O guest Marion
ors reading a book about Charles Diggs, Congressman late Consion
from Detroit. What are your thoughts? You want to join
this conversation. Reach out to us at eight hundred and
four five zero seventy eight seventy six one ticket phone

(01:31:26):
calls after the trafficking weather together, that's next and grind
rising family, thanks for rolling with us on this Monday morning.
Founk just starting your week with us. I guess there
is a doctor Marion Or has written several books. Was
reading a book. His lady's book is about a Congressman
Charles Diggs from Detroit. Many if you know, he was
instrumental and starting congression Black Caucus have played a major
role in the Black Power Conference in Gary in seventy

(01:31:47):
two and all this is too is in that book.
But the twell, let me read the tweet again for
if if those folks are just checking in a tweet
from one of our Detroit. Listen says, I'm so glad
to hear about the great legacy of Charles Diggs. Most
people from Detroit don't really want to talk about him.
And he goes on to say, by the time I
got to college, and I only heard about Digs's scandal
because I went to school with his children. Can you

(01:32:08):
tell me what happened or what changed?

Speaker 7 (01:32:12):
Yes, well again, thank you. Let me just say my
book is the first biography of Digs, and it's a
serious biography. And as a serious biography, I cover both
the good and the bad, if you will. And the
person gets tweeted a question about the scandal that really

(01:32:35):
led to a Diggs resonation and somewhat say downfall. And
let me get say very quickly that Diggs was a
person who had a difficult time managing his personal finances.

(01:32:56):
Now I don't know why that's the case. I never
could get it a good great on us. I do
know that he gambled, and his friend said he seemingly
had an addiction to gambling. The congressman was married four times,
he had six children, and so he had financial challenges.

(01:33:17):
The house of Dig's funeral home that I talked about
earlier would face serious financial challenges and it would collapse
in the early I'm sorry, the mid seventies. And so Diggs,
let me just say this. I'm not telling your listeners

(01:33:37):
just for an excuse for the congressman. I'm just explaining
what happened to him. And what happened to him is
that he was desperate, desperate for money, and he was
in a position as a leading member of Congress, a
senior member of Congress, and chairs of two committees in
Congress I mean a committee and a subcommittee to do

(01:34:00):
the things. So what he did was he gave his
then secretary a salary increase, and the salary increase from
the secretary came back to Diggs to help pay his
personal bills. The secretary agreed with this arrangement, and hence

(01:34:23):
this is what happened. This went on for over two years.
The woman would eventually resign. She didn't like working in
the office anymore, she didn't like the arrangement with the
with the salary, and she resigned. And the kickback, we

(01:34:43):
call that a kickback scheme. You know, the employee is
kicking back the salary to uh to the employer, and
so the payroad scheme stopped when she resigned, and I'm
not going to reveal it all called to your list
I want them to go and purchase the book. And
if you in DC, you should go to San Kopa

(01:35:05):
Bookstore on Georgia Avenue. And if you in Detroit, the
wonderful people at Source Booksellers on cash out. It's a
great place to purchase the house of Diggs. So she resigned,
the kickback scheme stopped because there is no one doing it.
Diggs hires someone to replace this woman, and the replacement

(01:35:30):
goes through diggs files and discovered that Diggs had been
involved in this payroll kickback scheme. And this person who
I'm not going to tell your listeners, but it's in
the book. Let me just tell you this, fella, Carl

(01:35:50):
I was able to get Congressman diggs FBI file, and
my book is the first to reveal the identity of
the confidential informant who picked up the phone in March
of nineteen seventy seven and called the Justice Department and

(01:36:12):
tipped them off and said, I want you to know
that Diggs was doing this kickback scheme. And shortly thereafter
the phone call was made the FBI showed up. Diggs
was indicted on twenty nine counts in this kickback scheme,
and he was convicted on all twenty nine counts by

(01:36:37):
a DC jury of eleven Black Americans and one white person. Okay,
he was convicted sentenced to three years in prison, but
he would serve only seven months. He would come out
of prison in nineteen eighty one. He would live the

(01:37:01):
rest of his life in Prince George's county outside of Washington,
d C. And Congressman Diggs died in August of nineteen
ninety eight of a massive stroke. So yes, he you know,
brother Carl, each of us is more than the worst

(01:37:22):
thing we've ever done. That's a quote from Brian Stevenson's
book on Jush Mercy. Each of us is more than
the worst thing we've ever done. And Diggs should be
remembered not from the scandal that your listener tweeted here,
but he should be remembered for this tremendous contributions he

(01:37:47):
made in this country and around the world. And brother Carl,
we didn't touch on all the things that I've uncovered
in the research about what this remarkable man. And did
you know, for example, Your listeners in DC may not
know that the Frederick Douglas Home in Washington, d C,

(01:38:08):
Anacostia over there, is a part of the National Park
System because Diggs in nineteen sixty two pushed a bill
through Congress to do that. Your listeners in DC may
not know that it was Diggs who pushed the legislation
through Congress that created the University of the District of

(01:38:28):
Columbia u d C, which is the only public institution
in our nation's capital. And many of your listeners may
not know that Biggs was, in fact the father of
home rule for Washington, d C. That is under under
tremendous attack right now by the Trump administration and the

(01:38:50):
Republicans in Congress. This was a remarkable American leader that
should not have been forgotten, if he shouldn't not be
remembered by this scandal. I underscore Brian Stevenson's quote again,
each of us is more than the worst thing we've

(01:39:11):
ever done.

Speaker 4 (01:39:13):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
So this you think does not tarnish because he's done
a lot of stuff, remarkable stuff that he's done, All
that stuff that you mentioned had done in the DMV.

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
I did not know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
I knew about the Aparteta I knew about also working
with the Congression Black Caucus starting up the Congression Black Aus.
Knew about the seventy two Gary Convention. But did I know
all the stuff that he did? So before you go,
just just does that outweigh You're saying what he did
at that ended his career on Capitol Hill does not

(01:39:42):
outweigh all the good that he did for us as
a people, not just Detroit as alone.

Speaker 7 (01:39:47):
Oh, no question about it. This this brother, you know
he was an imperfect man. Okay, he was a complex man.
Let me tell you something. The members of the Black
Caucuss and the members of Congress were shocked, were shocked

(01:40:07):
when they heard about the indictment of Congressmen Diggs. Louis
Stope told me. The congress member from Cleveland said to me, Professor,
we couldn't believe Digs or do anything wrong. Okay, So, yes,
he was an imperfect man. Uh, he was a complex man.

(01:40:28):
But his problems with the scandal affected his personal life.
If you will, let me guess say, other folk have
done much more worse things than than Congressmen Congressman Congressman Digs,
but never less. But never Lets let me just get

(01:40:48):
this out, brother, brother Kak. They do not overshadow the
tremendous contributions to this brother made and the sacrifices he
made for us here in this country and for a
black freedom on the continent of Africa.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Yeah, running lay here, But one question. Your students are Brown.
Do you discuss Diggs with your students at Brown University?

Speaker 15 (01:41:12):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (01:41:13):
Yes, ye oh, yes, yes, yes, there's no question about it.
I'm teaching. I'm teaching Brother Carl my black politics course,
the same course.

Speaker 10 (01:41:23):
That I took.

Speaker 7 (01:41:26):
From Professor Walton when I was seventeen, eighteen years ago.
I'm teaching my students here at Brown, and next semester
I will use my book House of Digs for the
first time in my Black Politics course. My students know
about Diggs and they're gonna learn even more about him
now that I've written the book.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
All right, I'll tell you what where you got to run.
But we're gonna have you come back because there's a
lot more to Charleston.

Speaker 7 (01:41:51):
Oh man, please, I would love to come back to
cover to cover this brother.

Speaker 10 (01:41:54):
He was.

Speaker 7 (01:41:55):
He was tremendous and Brother Carl, I really do appreciate
you for having me on your show and thank your listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
All right, thank you, thank you for writing this book
about Charles diks families. Thirteen minutes at the top, they
were running late, Professor Gerald Horn, grand rising, professor, welcome
to the program. Thanks for being so patient with us.

Speaker 10 (01:42:14):
Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 4 (01:42:16):
Well, let's let's let's get it started.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Professor Horn, you know your thoughts on this This deal
is supposed to be coming close between Ukraine and Russia.
They broken by Donald Trump. Your thoughts on this deal.

Speaker 8 (01:42:28):
Well, in a sect, it represents a surrender by Ukraine.
I think that Barack Obama had it right when he
was reluctant to intervene aggressively in Ukraine because, according to
mister Obama, Russia had escalatory domins. Let us just say
it's a country bigger in territory, bigger in population than Ukraine,

(01:42:55):
and it's obvious that Ukraine has become heavily dependent upon
one Shington to continue the struggle. In in the past few weeks,
they've lost territory, they're losing soldiers at an astonishing cliff.
The problem for mister Zelensky, the Ukrainian leader, is that
if he signs onto this Trump deal. He's basically a

(01:43:15):
dead duck at home, and so he has a very
difficult decision to make.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):
Yeah, from all the parents, it seems like this deal
is written by the Russians, that adopted by Trump. But
what's what's what's the rest of the world saying? What's
Europe saying? Because obviously he gets that land back from Ukraine,
He's not going to stop there.

Speaker 4 (01:43:34):
They know that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
Well, why don't they just come in and say that,
we will give you the military, the weapons it's that
Donald Trump is holding for him, you so you can
fight the Russians because that will keep him uh uh
off our doorsteps.

Speaker 4 (01:43:48):
Why why am they stepped up and said that yet?

Speaker 8 (01:43:51):
Well, the Europeans are full of bluster, but they don't
necessarily have the wherewithal to assist mister Zolensky. They would
have to weapons cash on the barrel head from the
United States from America and transfer those weapons to the Ukrainians.
The problem is their economies are in a funk, and

(01:44:12):
so they don't have cash on the barrel head. What
they do have is a lot of fire breathing rhetoric,
but at this point that doesn't really count for much.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Could China step in or was it was that? Was
that starting our World War Three?

Speaker 8 (01:44:26):
What China's on the side of Russia. That's one of
the reasons why Russia has been able to prevail. That's
one of the reasons why Russia has been able to
survive sanction. And I think that mister Trump in any case,
has so badly alienated the so called allies, starting with Canada,
which he is threatened to annext including Denmark's threatening to

(01:44:51):
seize their columny that is Greenland, and mister Trump in
the United States don't have much credibility nowadays.

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
So from the Service it looked like he's done because
if he takes this deal, and also they're calling for elections.
The part of that deal calls for elections in Ukraine.
Obviously they're talking about regime change here. That's I think
that's the goal as well. Uh so is Zelenski if
he accepts he's out.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
Is that the bottom line?

Speaker 8 (01:45:20):
Oh? Absolutely, they've painted themselves into a real corner. That
is to say, when mister Trump replaced mister Biden, that
was the signal. It seems to me for Zilinsky to
cut a deal as opposed to waiting until November to
try to cut a deal when he's obviously on the
back foot.

Speaker 2 (01:45:41):
Yeah, but Trump could have told him this a long
time ago. I mean, because this is essentially what they
wanted to do. Everything that Russia is asking for, they're
getting if if Zelensky accepts this deal. Uh, why didn't
Why didn't Trump come out earlier? It's because a lot
of lives have been lost since you know this, this
this battle has started. Why didn't or come earlier and
propose this and get it over and you know, move

(01:46:03):
on and let's go to the next phase.

Speaker 4 (01:46:05):
Why do the hell back? Why now?

Speaker 8 (01:46:08):
I think that you also have to look at the Ukraine,
as they have an embassy in Washington. They read the
US Press. Anybody who reached the US press knows that
sooner rather than later, mister Trump was going to pull
the plug on Ukraine. He has said during the campaign
that he could settle this conflict within twenty four hours
of assuming office. That should have been a signal that

(01:46:32):
he was going to make concessions to the Russians. And
in any case, that's what's happening.

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
All right, seventeen after the top of their family. I
take a short break here, we come back with doctor Horn.
You got a question for doctor on anything on the planet,
reach out to us at eight hundred and four five
zero seventy eight to seventy six. We'll take your phone
calls and Grand Rising family, thanks for starting your week
with us. And I guess that twenty one minutes after
the top of that happens to be Professor Gerald Horn
from the University of Houston, Africana and the African American

(01:47:02):
History professor at the University of Houston. We're going to
tackle the various subjects with doctor Horn before the time
he's out, but so you can reach him if you
got a question that eight hundred four or five zero
seventy eight seventy six. Mike is calling from DC's online
two the Grand Rising. Mike, your question for doctor Horn.

Speaker 13 (01:47:20):
Oh, great Rising, mister Nelson, mister Kevin, and doctor from Houston.
You're seven thousand of sacreme. Your so point on, there's
no reason Trump when he met with the disagreement and
disrespect that happened that the White House won the misty
first arrived, he told him he didn't have any cards.
He had no cards, and I understand what Trump's trying
to do. You don't want any more killing. Russia lost

(01:47:42):
a lot of troops too, They've lost a lot, but
like you said, they got a lot of help from
Russia and North Korea, and the Clintons made them give
up that weapons of mass destruction. Couldn't do anything. And
as a guest said, Europe can't help them. Europe doesn't
do anything. It's their war, that's NATO is on that side.
The Europeans can't do anything to help them. For us

(01:48:03):
to give our weapons, of our weapons and stuff like
that to to Ukraine, we would lose the pleasures our stock. Also,
as you said, mister Nelson too, it would start World
War three. I'm saying so nuclear we're not going to
go into that. So technically Russia, they're they're gained a

(01:48:23):
lot of land they lost, they gained a lot of land,
and there's no way that Ukraine went. So they just
need to go and end it now. And the Valinsky
will lose their election because he gave up. He's in
a no win situation. So I agree, thank you, all.

Speaker 4 (01:48:38):
Right, thanks Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
But but doctor Horn doesn't this you know who says
that that the Putin's going to stop with this. Those
portions that he was trying to reclaim from Ukraine, who
says he's not in Poland is not on his hit list?
How did How can the European you know, committee be
happy with this?

Speaker 10 (01:48:58):
To stop?

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
Kevin hang up online two for US and Kevin doctor Hart, Kevin,
can you hang up online too for US?

Speaker 8 (01:49:18):
Okay, can you hear me now?

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Yes, we can hear you.

Speaker 8 (01:49:26):
Let's say that one of the reasons this conflict started
was that the United States, when the Soviet Union was collapsing,
had made an informal arrangement that there would not be
an expansion of NATO closer to Russia's boards. But the
United States violated that agreement. Now you have these former

(01:49:46):
Soviet allies, former Moscow allies, now part of NATO, including Romania,
including Poland, including Bulgarian and Ukraine. In the sense was
the last straw and so I think what happens that
the European and NATO, and particularly the United States, they overreached.
What needs to also be brought into this conversation is

(01:50:08):
that the United States is threatening Venezuela, as we well know,
but Venezuela now is being bolstered militarily by Russia. For example,
and that's also a possible potential conflict closer than outvert
to US borders.

Speaker 2 (01:50:27):
Right, and markman I sent a question about that as
he says hello, and he says, US Special Operations Command
General Brian Fenton has gone. US Southern Command Admiral Alvin
Hoseley is gone. Now flies to Venezuela, being counseled by
several major commercial airlines. He says, are they any predictions,
because I think that the US is in just Montela,

(01:50:50):
just I guess, days away from attacking Venezuela. He wants
to get to your thoughts.

Speaker 8 (01:50:55):
Well, that's possible that the United States days away from
attack in Venezuela. It's also possible that mister Trump is bluffing,
that this is the art of the bluff, that he
thought that he sent this journal or forward aircraft, carrier
and nuclear submarines closer than ever to Venezuela, that there
would be an internal coup against mister Maduro. But that

(01:51:19):
has not happened yet. The Wall Street journalists suggested that
the Madua regime is coup proof, that they rely upon
Cuban intelligence, and of course Cuban intelligences. They're one of
the top intelligence agencies on planet Earth. After all, they've
been able to survive, although only being ninety miles from

(01:51:40):
the shores of South Florida. And so mister Trump, who
got elected on this premise of so called America First,
not getting involved in these disastrous foreign conflicts, may be
headed for the mother of all foreign conflicts in Venezuela,
which would splinter further his base. Notice the resignation from

(01:52:02):
Congress of Maga loyalists Marjorie Tailor Green. There's an eternal
civil war in Maga over the Hitler's Cool faction headed
by Nick Paintus and the Zionist faction, which contributed separately
to the campaign coffers of mister Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu.
Not Cleveldge is not going away anytime soon, and it

(01:52:24):
could be worsened if mister Trump heads heathlessly into Venezuela.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
Yeah, we'll revisit that. At the moment twenty eight after
the top of they are in Venezuela. What they said,
because these drug boats that they're supposing druggers say they're
bombing and blowing them up in the waters near trended
out in Tobago. My question to you, though, If these
guys are running drugs and they know that the United
States dropping bombs, why would they continue? Does it seem

(01:52:50):
to make sense that these guys are smart enough to
run drugs but dumb enough to keep running drugs know
that the United States bombing. I guess the credibility of
whether those ships or boats whatever that were bombed, there
was still the drug dealers doing that.

Speaker 8 (01:53:05):
Your thoughts, I think the inference you should draw is
that they're not running drugs, that they are what they're
advertised to be. They're fishermen, And I think that's one
of the reasons why there have been press reports that
London has suspended intelligence sharing with Washington over these killings,

(01:53:25):
because it would be akin to a DA agent or
a police officer coming up to you on the sidewalk
of Washington, DC, accusing you of running drugs and instead
of arresting you and detaining you, shoot you through the head.
If they have evidence that they're running drugs, why don't
they arrest them and bring them to court to stand trial.

Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
And two of the victims of those attacks with fishermen,
as you mentioned, from turned out in Tobago. There's another
issue too. I'm not sure if you're aware of this
professor down there, because they're attained the fact of letting
warships in and around their country because they're right next
to Venezuela, and that's caused some issues with that region,

(01:54:09):
with the leaders in that region. And Brazil is now
speaking of Brazil is like what are you doing? You know,
speaking of trying to reach the leader, female leader of
tradad and Tobago, and she had to come out and
say she's not aiding in a betting on the strikes
that the United States is doing, but she's just accommodating
the warships into her part if you will.

Speaker 4 (01:54:30):
Have you heard those stories?

Speaker 8 (01:54:32):
I have, indeed, and I think that Trinidad and Tobago
should be careful because after mister Trump leaves office, Venezuela,
a country that is about thirty times five of Turnidad
and Tobago, will still be their next door neighbor. And
I think one of the reasons why mister Trump has hesitated,
apparently in terms of pulling the trigger against Venezuela is

(01:54:56):
that Venezuela is no pushover. As noted, it's the system
by the Cubans, this assisted by the Colombians, you still
have arm fact factions in Colombia who I'm sure would
be quite enthusiastic about confronting Yankees on the battlefield. They
are assisted by Iranian oil engineers who are keeping their
oil enterprise going. Has noted, Russians have assisted them militarily,

(01:55:21):
China has assisted them financially. And then if you look
at South America generally, mister Trump should pay attention to
the fact that voters in Ecuador just a few days
ago voted to refuse stationing a US basis on their soil.
In the elections in neighboring Chile, a communist one more

(01:55:43):
votes than any other candidate, which was quite shocking to Washington.
So mister Trump is really skating on ice, not only
in the hemisphere, but also the blowback in terms of
his MAGA base.

Speaker 2 (01:55:56):
Well, let me ask you thirty minutes at the top
of that family in Professor Jill with us and we know,
as usually we tackle several of tops with doctor Horne.
You want to join this discussion, reach out to us
at eight hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy six,
Doctor Horn. What do you think is the bottom line?

Speaker 4 (01:56:11):
Though?

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
Do you think is it there? After Venezuela's oil, or
they want regime change or both both.

Speaker 8 (01:56:17):
Clearly, mister Trump, of course lust after oil, recalled that
that was one of the reasons he was seeking regime
change in Syria, which he was able to accomplish putting
into office the former leader of al Qaeda in Syria,
who of course visited the Oval office just a few
days ago, a man who has been implicated in the

(01:56:40):
killing of Christians. At the same time, mister Trump has
threatened to go into Nigeria. Gun's a blade thing, he says,
because of a supposed anti Christian cruseettes crusade in Nigeria. So,
mister Trump, his platform is full of contradictions, just as
he is full of bluster.

Speaker 4 (01:57:01):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
Twenty nine away from the top of Tweeter says that
the reason that the United States won't arrest the so
called A drug runners in the boats is because it's
in international waters and they have no jurisdiction there, and
that's why they just blow them up so they don't
have to prove anything as far as evidence. Your thoughts not.

Speaker 8 (01:57:20):
Well, that sounds like murder incorporated to me. I mean,
why don't they cooperate with neighboring countries in terms of
detaining these alleged drug runners. Why don't they cooperate with
the Trinidaddy in terms of detaining these alleged drug runners.
I think it's clear that mister Trump feels that he

(01:57:41):
can help his oily cronies in Texas, in particular by
getting his grubby little paws on Venezuela petroleum. But I
dare say that this enterprise is going to blow up
in his face.

Speaker 2 (01:57:55):
I speaking about that. That's interesting that you mentioned. I'm
glad you mentioned that twenty eight away from the Tom
because I'm at a conversation with him about this, and
he says the kind of petroleum that the venue sale
has that Trump's trying to get his hands on. The
only person that can really not manufactured or I guess
distilla or whatever they do once they snatch it was

(01:58:17):
a company owned by the Koch brothers. I'm just wondering
if you've heard that information.

Speaker 8 (01:58:22):
I'm not familiar with that particular angle, but it wouldn't
surprise me if that is the case. Recalled that Venezuela
has come into conflict with US oil executives. They detained
a number of them over the years, which is of
course upset these oil executives tremendously. But once again, I

(01:58:43):
think mister Trump is really skating on thin ice. You
see that many countries are unwilling to cooperate with the
United States. You saw that at the Group of twenty
meeting in Johannesburg this past weekend, for example, where business
went on despite the fact that the United States boycotted,

(01:59:03):
despite the fact that the United States continued to insult
this leading African country. And so I trust and I
hope that people in the United States are paying attention
to how increasingly the United States is becoming isolated because
of the bumbling of mister Trump.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
Twenty seven away from the Top day Money Mind's checking
in from Baltimore is online three grant rise your money Mind,
your question for doctor Horn.

Speaker 12 (01:59:30):
Good morning, Carl, Good morning, Doctor Horn. Good morning, Okay,
doctor Horn. First, why would the United States be so
stupid as to think that mister Putin would allow Ukraine
to join NATO from the Rye beginning, That's the first thing. Second,

(01:59:52):
why are they so insistent upon sanctions on any country? Then,
as where Russia China, why do they impose the sanctus
be willingly in the first place. And third, when you
talk about the nations not being aligned with the USA,
is that maybe because of the brick nations that they
feel that they got accuse whether they're going to be

(02:00:14):
on the US side or they're going to be on
China side.

Speaker 7 (02:00:18):
But I'll take you away from there if.

Speaker 8 (02:00:22):
You go by the Climate Chaine summit in Brazil, which
just concluded a day or two ago. Increasingly they're on
China side. I mean, China's the leader globally in terms
of green energy. You might have heard the story from
Jamaica and the aftermath of Hurricane Melissa that houses that

(02:00:42):
had solar panels, where China plays the predominant role, their
electricity was up and running almost shortly after the rain stopped,
and their neighbors were coming to these homes to recharge
their phones and all the rest. And so Trump, in contrast,
is trying to rely upon fossil fuels and energy of

(02:01:05):
the nineteenth century in order to propel the United States
into the twenty first century, and that simply will not work.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
Twenty five away from the top of our brother college
is also joined us. He's calling for Waldolphine Maryland Online too.
He has a question for you as well, Doctor Horn,
Grand Rising Brother College.

Speaker 15 (02:01:22):
Your question for doctor Horn, Grand Rising, Carl and the
Extreme Professor. Professor, I want to I want to to
ask you a question about the Epstein fouls and just
from for inquiring minds knowledge, why would the several of

(02:01:46):
the women that were involved in Epstein fols vote for Trump?
Number one? Number two is the Maxwell woman? Is she Jewish?
And number three finally is the Epstein fils seems to

(02:02:11):
involve a high amount of world leaders who are being
blackmailed at the highest level by Epstein. And this is
the reason why Trump does not want to release the
files and including the CIA m I six and the

(02:02:34):
masade involved in that black Well Black Male network. And
can you answer those questions for me? If you have
a question, I'll get.

Speaker 2 (02:02:46):
I'll sorry all right there because we've got to step
aside for a few months. I'll let doctor Horn respond
when we get back twenty three minutes away from the
top of the family, you two can join this discussion
with doctor Gerald Horn. Just reach out to us at
eight hundred and five zero seventy eight and we'll take
your phone calls. Next and Grand Rising family, Thanks for
starting your week with us and our guest Professor Jerald
Horn from the University of Houston. Before we go back

(02:03:07):
to him, listen for our condolences to the family of
Jimmy Abdullah l Men some of the enormous h rap
Brown made his transition on Sunday. Also, we've got especially
to his son, Carrie l Man. You've heard him here
on this program before. He's an attorney, and also his
mom Kareema l Alman, also Kenolsius for the family and
the fans of reggae singer actor Jimmy Cliff. He used

(02:03:30):
to somebody may have seen this movie back in the
day of the Hearted They Come. Jimmy Cliff was eighty one.
Jamal Abdulla LMN was eighty two. Coming up later this week,
you're in to hear from futuristic researcher Sadeka Bakaart. By
the way, it's today Sideki's birthday. If you know him,
give him a shout out. Also, historian Michael Hamilton from
Detroit will join us. Chairman Fred Hampton will also be here,

(02:03:52):
and also Black Voters Matter will also be here as well.
So if you are in Baltimore, make sure your radious
locked in tight on ten ten w LB or if
you're in the family, are on fourteen fifteen w L.
All right, doctor Horney, do you remember to set a
question from brother Collins about the Epstein files.

Speaker 8 (02:04:07):
Well, first of all, Madame Maxwell, her father was Jewish,
her mother was French Protestant, French jukeonot. I'm not sure
of what faith traditions she chose to pursue with regard
to Epstein victims voting for mister Trump. At the press
conference in Washington last week in the run up to
the vote on releasing those files, at least one of

(02:04:31):
the victims says that she voted for mister Trump. With
regard to mister Epstein and blackmail, it's apparent that he
had a very close relationship with former Israeli Prime Minister
Ahu Baraq, that Israeli Mosad agents were known to crash
at his fashionable Upper East Side of Manhattan townhouse, and

(02:04:54):
the Israelis also have a rather significant intelligence gathering force.
You might have heard the story from London when Benjamin Nettanna,
who visited number ten Downing Street, which is the resident
of the Prime Minister, that he asked to use the bathroom,
and then after the exoded, security found a bug a

(02:05:18):
listening device in the toilet, for example. So these stories
continue to pile up, and one story that hasn't gotten
to sufficient publicity is that former Clinton Secretary of the Treasury,
Lawrence Thummer's former president of Harvard University, he was consulting
with mister Epstein and trying to seduce a self described mintee,

(02:05:42):
that is to say, a protege of his. And what's
interesting is that this protegee of was also the daughter
of a high ranking leader of the Chinese Communist Party.
And so a lot of secrets have yet to be
exposed and uncovered, although I hope that they will be
exposed and uncovered.

Speaker 2 (02:06:02):
Also means that Julaane's Maxwell's dad, Jordan Maxwell, died under
some suspicious circumstances as well.

Speaker 8 (02:06:10):
He certainly did, as I recall, mister Maxwell, he somehow
fell off his yacht. If I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (02:06:18):
Right, you got named the Jelaine named after his daughter. Interesting,
this is really deep what's going on with the Epstein fires.
But I think that I last call it from waldof
Brother causes onto something. But Professor Horn, let's talk about
the fact that we talked about the United States thinking
about invading uh Venezuela also talking about invading Nigeria, and

(02:06:41):
Nicki Minaj seems to have got into this. Your thoughts
on all this, this you know, threat to invade Nigeria.

Speaker 8 (02:06:48):
Well, I was very disappointed with Nicki Minaj when she
showed up at the US Office at the United Nations
with the US Ambassador endorsing miss to Trump's inflame rhetoric
about invading Nigeria because of an alleged anti Christian genocide. Now,

(02:07:08):
what was curious about that is that Number one, she
has roots in Trinidad and Tobago, which has been a
major source for Pan Africanism and solidarity across the Atlantic
between amongst Africans. Recall the former comrade of the late
Man We Knew is Hrap Brown. I'm speaking of the

(02:07:30):
man we once knew, the stokely Carmichael, Recall c l R.
James Eric Williams. The list is long, and so for
her to participate in that spectacle in Manhattan was really outrageous,
not to mention the fact that I'm really concerned about
the downside consequence in the neighborhood. That is to say,

(02:07:52):
there are substantial tensions historically, at least between those of
South Asian descent African descent and Turnidad and Tobago and
Guyana in particular. Many of those of South Asian descent
are Muslim, and her comments is they're not going to
help that particular crisis. And if she's really concerned about

(02:08:16):
a supposed attack and persecution of Christians, well she should
ask mister Trump about that, because mister Trump is noted
he had in the oval office former leader of al
Kaina in Syria, now a so called head of state
speaking of Man we now call mister al Sharraf, and
this will probably not help Nicki Minaja's.

Speaker 4 (02:08:39):
Career thirteen away from the top.

Speaker 2 (02:08:42):
You know what's interesting what you just mentioned about the
dynamics between the Indians and the Africans. They should put
it that way, so folks that will just understand square
we'll we're talking about entering down Tobago and in Guyana.
The late doctor Reno Karashidi traveled to both those countries
quite a bit and would report on the conflicts there.
You know, people think that is so one sided. And
one of the things he told us is that even

(02:09:04):
politically one political party is dominated by the Indians and
one dominated by Africans, and this ongoing conflict between the
racial groups and those in between. And he also gave
me the name of because there's a lot of inner
marriage there the do glass. Have you heard of any
the conflict between like that in any of those two countries.

(02:09:24):
That's one of the reason why I missed the doctor
Reno Kuroshii, Doctor Hornet. Have you heard any conflict still
going on between the two groups in Guyana and in
Trinidad and Tobago.

Speaker 8 (02:09:35):
Well you can trace it actually precisely back in nineteen
fifty three when Cheddi Jagen, who was of South Asian descent,
led a breakaway from the British Empire. And that's a
result the United States intentionally and consciously tried to stir
up anti Asian sentiment meant amongst the black population, which

(02:09:58):
led to the rise of four Burnham, a man of
African descent who I'm afraid to say what was quite
corrupt and that obviously led to a backlash. But since
we're in the Caribbean, I shouldn't mention a story that
has not received sufficient attention at although I'm sure it'll
be discussed on this program. Just arrested in the United

(02:10:20):
States were a number of Texans planned to invade Gunai,
which is part of hating and believe it or not,
their plan was to execute all the men there and
then turn the women and children into slings. This is
quite startling, It's quite shocking, and I think that it

(02:10:41):
should also be a warning to many black Americans about
what time it is that you have such plots being
concocted with the idea of returning to slavery.

Speaker 4 (02:10:55):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:10:55):
I saw that story this morning. An interesting you know,
and start guys here, I think from Texas where they
are doctor Horne, that they came up with for sure,
North Texas, Okay, and we come over to this idea
start slavery all over again in Haiti. And you wonder
why there's so much chaos right now in Haiti. So
you know, they will benefit from being from everything the

(02:11:18):
chaos has taken place to instability in Haiti.

Speaker 8 (02:11:22):
Well, certainly that was the plan, and as you say, correctly,
it gives an idea of why there's so much chaos
in Haiti. In fact, in the nineteenth century, Haiti had
to be on guard perpetually against this notion of re
enslavement and as a result, had to spend a lot
of its treasury on the military and on the defense.

(02:11:44):
And that, along with having to pay a kind of
reparations to their former slave masters in France, helped to
deform the Haitian economy and Haitians is still paying the
price for that to this very day.

Speaker 2 (02:12:00):
Not away from topic, I got a tweet tweet that
says that Nicki Minaja's brother got twenty five years for rape.
Maybe she's trying to get him aparton from Donald Trump.
If you heard, that's why she's getting well.

Speaker 8 (02:12:09):
I understand that there are people close to her that
are looking for favors from mister Trump. And so you know,
mister Trump, he is for sale. There's a big for
sale line on the front door of the White House,
and if there's not, there should be. However, I think
that the downside risk of her career may out weigh

(02:12:30):
whatever benefits she can glean from mister Trump.

Speaker 2 (02:12:38):
All right, man, it's away from the top of the
question about ask doctor Horn, how acurate does he believe
the new PBS Ken Burns American Revolution documentary is? And
I'm wondering, is that the same series on this seventeen
seventy six series the PBS she's doing.

Speaker 8 (02:12:53):
I've been very critical of that series because one of
the reasons we study history is so we can gain
insight into the project. And you can watch that series
because the cows come home. I'm not sure what you'll
learn about the riots of Trump and Trumpism. That is
to say, if seventeen seventy six was still grand, how

(02:13:16):
do we end up with Trump? If seventeen seventy six
was still grand, why would there thousands of enclayed Africans
in seventeen seventy six and millions on the eve of
the US Civil War? And in any case, why are
they just focusing on this revolt on the Atlantic seaboard
roughly from Boston to Savannah when we all know that

(02:13:38):
eventually the United States stretched through the Pacific and too Hawaii,
ousting indigenous nations, liquidating them, perpetuating genocide. And supposedly we're
supposed to see this as a great belief forward for humanity.
No wonder we have such cynicism in this country.

Speaker 2 (02:13:56):
Well, let's talk about Donald Trump and it's meeting rerecent
meeting with Monde who.

Speaker 8 (02:14:01):
Won well in the since Mundani won because you saw
what happened to Zelenski when he wandered into the Oval office.
You saw what happened to the President of South Africa,
still a rom oppose them when he was ambushed in
the Oval office. Instead, you saw mister Trump intervening when

(02:14:21):
mister Mundani was asked that he still considered mister Trump
to be a fascist, although on the Sunday talk shows
yesterday Mumdani confirmed that yes, he still continues to see
mister Trump as a fascist, which I think is an
accurate assessment. And so it seemed for whatever reason, mister
Trump was making the concessions and mister Mumdani was willing

(02:14:42):
to accept the concessions. It may have something to do
with the fraying magabates which bids there to turn mister
Trump into a lane duck prematurely.

Speaker 2 (02:14:53):
Did you think it has any because they need federal
fund seasons. There's a lot of uncompleted business in New
York City itself. I think there's the bridge and the
tunnels that connect Manhattan to Jersey and they're holding up
the funds. Do you think that that's part of the
reason why Mandannie went to you know to Donald Trump
and don Tevsky's pointing out that he asked for them,
that man Donnie asked for the meeting.

Speaker 8 (02:15:16):
Well, I think there are a number of visues. There's
the fear that mister Trump will send National Guard personnel
into the streets of New York City like he's done
in Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, d C. Charlotte, North Carolina.
New Orleans is next on the list. And speaking of that,
we should not let another second pass without mentioning that

(02:15:38):
the mayor of Chicago, Mayor Johnson, has suggested that the
United Nations should investigate the United States for human rights violations.
What we need now is for the mayor of these
aforementioned cities, particularly Los Angeles and particularly I would say
Charlotte and New Orleans as well, to endorse Mayor Johnson's

(02:16:01):
bold initiative. And then we need the African American Mayor's
Association to do the same because this could be potentially significant,
because we obviously need to reconnect with our brothers and
sisters across the planet in order to beat back the
Trump attack.

Speaker 2 (02:16:19):
I'm glad you went there because I think it was
this morning we discussed it. Kevin We talked about the
fact that the Blue States and the Red States and
the California's economy is the fourth largest and the entire world.
What would happen Or is the possibility, doctor Horne, that
the states like California, New York, Illinois just hold back
the money instead of sending it to the to the
federal treasury and they keep the money themselves and govern

(02:16:42):
their territories. Is that a possibility or is that too
far Fastings? They're being punished on the other side by
Donald Trump.

Speaker 8 (02:16:51):
It's possible, but I don't think it's likely. I think
what these Blue states are banking on is making a
comeback in November twenty twenty six, and as of now,
it looks like they will particularly to give them the
result in November twenty twenty five when the Republicans lost
the golubinatorial races in New Jersey and Virginia lost the

(02:17:16):
congressional redistricting battle in the state of California. So I
think that they're banking on reclaiming power in the House
and then blockading mister Trump's initiatives, perhaps launching a number
of investigations and mister Trump and all of his corruption
and it happens so frequently it's hard to keep track of.

Speaker 2 (02:17:40):
And again I have to responded shore we get back
because we got to take a short break. But Todd Horn,
do you think that you really think that Donald Trump
is going to leave office when his term is up?
And I'll let you respond when we get back. We
got to stake the break, as I mentioned, so our
stations can identify themselves down the line. Family, thanks for
rolling with us on this Monday morning. Thanks for starting
your week with us. You got a question for our guess,
the doctor Jerald Horne from the University of Houston. Reach

(02:18:01):
out to us at eight hundred four five zero seventy
eight seventy six and we'll take a phone calls next
and Grand Rising family, thanks for starting your week with us.
I guess is doctor Gerald Horne from the University of Houston.
He's an African American and African history professor at the
University of Houston. Before we left though the question, and
he's also an attorney. I should always mention that because
before we left to asking the prospects of Donald Trump

(02:18:22):
refusing to leave office going with some idea that requires
martial law and legally if he can do that. So
that's my question for you, doctor Horne.

Speaker 8 (02:18:33):
Well, legally can he do it? That's sadly an open
question after the Supreme Court decision last year which basically
gave him cart lunch to commit crimes if he can
somehow spend it as being part of his official duties.
In the current issue of the British weekly of The Economist,
there's an article by Harvard law professor Jack Goldsmith and

(02:18:54):
former Obama administration lawyer Bob Bauer which raises precisely the
prosper act of mister Trump seeking to disrupt the November
twenty twenty sixth election because of the fear that the
GOP will lose impounding ballot boxes. For example, he had
to get re elected in twenty twenty four in order

(02:19:16):
to avoid prison. He may decide to try to stay
on after November twenty twenty eight for the same reason.
And once again it brings me back to that Ken
Burns documentary. If the United States revolt against Britain was
such a grand event, the most significant event this perth

(02:19:37):
of Jesus Christ, according to the filmmaker, which of course
is an insult to Islam, not to mention an insult
to the inventions like mass electricity, the printing press, et cetera.
History should provide insight into the present, and that's where
that documentary and a good deal of historiography failed.

Speaker 2 (02:20:02):
Doctor Horn got a tweek question for it's almost like
a letter, so just rolling me on this. It says,
during last week and over the weekend, there were about
six Democratic Congressional legislators former military that put out a
social media message advising current service person not to obey
any illicit military orders put forth by the Trump administration.
And the twetter goes on to say, can you ask

(02:20:22):
doctor Horn the following, does he feel these legislators preemptively
received intel that Trump was planning something the farious? These letters,
they just want to beat Trump to the punch, that's
one question, he says. If so, is this in relation
to Ukraine, Venezuela or Operation Swamp Suite in New Orleans?
And lastly, did doctor Horn take a residence in Canada
or is just that a rumor?

Speaker 5 (02:20:45):
You said?

Speaker 8 (02:20:45):
Did I take a bresident in Canada?

Speaker 4 (02:20:47):
Yeah, that's the last part.

Speaker 8 (02:20:49):
Canada for most of the year, but unfortunately I had
to return because I couldn't get the immigration papers straight.
But in any case, with regard to those six representatives,
what they were saying is actually what service personnel are
told in training, that not only can you disobey an

(02:21:11):
illegal order, you must disobey an a legal order. And
I speculate that it has something to do with Venezuela,
particularly the blowing up of these fishermen in open waters.
Recalled that one of the top military leaders in the
United States military just resigned. He was supposed to get

(02:21:33):
the tip of the spear with regard to this attack
on Venezuela, which has led to all manner of speculation.
But I can't speculate any further with regard to what
was on the minds of these representatives when they called
out mister trump Wood, by the way, suggested that they
should be hanged.

Speaker 12 (02:21:51):
Now.

Speaker 2 (02:21:51):
I remember that statement that he made for after the
top l with doctor Horn eight hundred and four or
five zero seventy eight seventy six schedule and to speak
with him, brother Gregor checking him from Charlotte in North
Carolina's online to grand Rising, Brother Gregory, your question for
doctor Horn.

Speaker 16 (02:22:06):
Yes, gran Rodsen brother called grin doctor Horn.

Speaker 7 (02:22:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (02:22:10):
I code him with this question regarding the issue of
the Trump executive order regarding birthright citizenship, and first, doctor Horn,
I was wondering if you could provide some background history
of birthright citizenship as a part of the Civil War
Amendments Fourteenth Amendments, Section one, and also if you could

(02:22:32):
explain some of the implications if this issue that has
been raised by Trump and his people works its way
to the Supreme Court and Chief Justice John Roberts has
the opportunity to possibly redefine citizenship in the United States,
could you discuss the implications for black people if that happens,

(02:22:53):
and if the possibility of that happening with this Trump
executive order regarding birthright citizenship.

Speaker 8 (02:23:00):
So as you correctly suggest, the Fourteenth Amendment a posts
US Civil War constitutional amendment in codes birthright citizenship. It
was designed to overthrow the notorious eighteen fifty seventh Supreme
Court case of the dread Scott case, which of course

(02:23:21):
was engineered by the Marylander who served as Chief Justice.
Speaking of Roger Taney, the dread Scott case that the
black people cannot be citizens. The Fourteenth Amendment supposedly overturned
dred Scott. If birthright citizenship under the fourteenth Amendment in

(02:23:41):
turn is overturned.

Speaker 13 (02:23:43):
What does that.

Speaker 8 (02:23:44):
Say about dread Scott is it back? In effect? This
is all very dangerous, needless to say, And it would
not surprise me at all if the so called original
one who occupy the majority of the Supreme Court would
decide to overlook and override the plain language of the

(02:24:08):
fourteenth Amenber and decide once again to go along with
Mster Trump. Do not be so shocked nor surprise if
that occurred.

Speaker 7 (02:24:16):
Wow.

Speaker 16 (02:24:17):
Thank you for that explanation, doctor Horn. And one more
thing I wanted to add is I was doing some
research and I had found two Googles that I like
to provide to you and the audience. The first one
is Trump National Citizenship Database, and I found several articles
that the Trump administration has already created, for the first

(02:24:39):
time in the United States history, a national citizenship database,
and this could be used to basically define another form
of citizenship in the future after the Supreme Court makes
this ruling regarding that executive order. And the second google
is if you've heard about this, if you could explain it.

(02:24:59):
The google is prompt Office of Remigration.

Speaker 11 (02:25:03):
It's R E.

Speaker 10 (02:25:04):
M I G R A T IO.

Speaker 16 (02:25:06):
N Office of Remigration, and this is a new department
in the State Department that talks about not just deporting immigrants,
but possibly deporting nine assimilated American citizens.

Speaker 12 (02:25:20):
To other countries like in Africa.

Speaker 10 (02:25:22):
Could you come in on those two googles, doctor Horn.

Speaker 8 (02:25:26):
Well, once again, we should not be shocked nor surprised
if those assertions you make turn out to be valid,
because right now as we speak, you see undocumented workers
being deported to East Swatini and Southern Africa, although they
never had any connection to the country. A man of

(02:25:48):
Jamaican ancestry was amongst those who were sent there. Some
are being deported to Rwanda, for example. And historically there's
been a long standing effort the house the black population
of the United States of America. Therein you begin to
understand the history of the West African country of Liberia,

(02:26:09):
which came into being about two centuries ago, principally promoted,
as I pointed out in my book on Washington, DC,
by the leaders of Meryl who thought that after the
War of eighteen twelve there were too many free Negroes
who sided with the British invaders not to mention its
slave Africans. And so the idea was to send them

(02:26:30):
all to Liberia. Then after the net Turner Slaver vote
of August eighteen thirty one, the idea was to send
disgruntled Negroes to Liberia. And then when mister Lincoln came
to office in the eighteen sixties, he was trying to
convince black people in Washington, in particular to accept emancipation.

(02:26:51):
Then expatoration that it's to say we'll free you, but
you've got to go. And then at the end of
the nineteenth century, after the United States to why, the
idea was to send US Negroes to Awaii. And then
after they waste war on the Philippines, the idea was
to send US Negroes to the Philippines. So we're just
seeing the revival of old ideas.

Speaker 4 (02:27:15):
Let me tell man a question for you, doctor Harnt.
I thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:27:17):
Gregory ten halfter the top. The implication of what Gregory
is saying, is it possible that they could strip African
Americans of citizenship or blacks because of the fourteenth Amendment?
Is that a possibility that the Supreme Court would go
along with it. You mentioned they'd rub a stamp. Everything
that he does is that where Gregory was going.

Speaker 4 (02:27:36):
With all this.

Speaker 8 (02:27:38):
I assume that's where he was going. And as you
have already indicated that the Supreme Court tends to rub
this down whatever Kakamami idea mister Trump comes up with.
And so in light of what we just reported about
Haiti in terms of these Texas trying to reinsert slavery
and Haiti, I don't think that anything is basically off
the table out of bounds right now.

Speaker 2 (02:28:00):
All right, got another tweet for you at eleven a
half the top. Its quite a long sort, so stay
with me on this one, doctor Lorne, he says, Grant rising,
doctor Horne. With the Trumpet government advancing the Project twenty
twenty five agenda, and Corporate America laying off and firing
hundreds of thousands of people in the name of saving
money on production by AI, with those actions expanding poverty

(02:28:20):
and joblessness. At what point will the billionaire employers recognize
that their broad sweeping efforts have and will continue to
contract the economy and therefore the corporate bottom line because
they're eliminating their own buyers from the marketplace. Is their
greed that blind? What is their endgame? And how does
this make economic sense, and what are your thoughts?

Speaker 4 (02:28:41):
That's the question.

Speaker 8 (02:28:43):
Is there greed that blind? The short answer is yet.
In other words, they're speaking of these corporate moguls, each
are pursuing their own narrow interests. They're not looking at
the wider picture that's where the state and the White
House is supposed to come into being. Are, in other words,
looking out for the entire economy. But obviously that's a

(02:29:06):
fantas thing when you're talking about mister Trump as the
head of state and the head of government. And so
it's clear that right now it's things stand. The United
States has headed for an iceberg. The business press is
replete with stories about over investment and artificial intelligence, particularly
when we know that China. According to Jensen Wang of Nvidia,

(02:29:30):
which has been one of the major winners in the
United States of this artificial intelligence boondoggle, he says that
China is ahead and is likely to prevail. At the
same time, where you see meta Facebook investing bigions, Google
investing bigions, Microsoft investing billions, something is awry here.

Speaker 2 (02:29:56):
And also we're seeing that Elon Musk is back in
the White House, if you can talk about him for
a minute, because he was under pressure from the people
that Tesla people, the carmaker that he runs, and he
prompts them wouldn't get involved in government. So they gave
him a new contract, oms a trillion dollar contract, and
right after that he goes well, well, he turns up

(02:30:17):
in the White House at the Saudi Arabia leaders meeting
and also he says he's having a dog a meeting
with his doose friends in Austin, Texas. Did the first
the investors in his company who he promised he wouldn't
get involved in poltics? Did they get played? And he
got that trillion dollars from them, and that's what he wanted.
And too, do you see him going back into politics

(02:30:39):
since he was there with a SATI group or is
he just just angling just to try for his business interests.

Speaker 8 (02:30:45):
Well, it seems to be the latter. Part of the
takeaway from the visit of the Saudi leader to the
Oval Office, it's that the United States is going to
allow more investment and artificial intelligence in Saudi Arabia itself,
and that's where Elon Musk plans to profit, because he
too is investing heavily in that sphere. But I think

(02:31:07):
One of the revealing aspects of this Trigon dollar pay
package that mister Elon Musk has received is that I
expected more outcry given the crisis of everyday living in
this country, the affordability crisis, and yet here you have
one man getting a pay package that is larger than

(02:31:29):
the GDP the economy of a number of smaller countries,
for example, and yet there doesn't seem to be that
much concern about it.

Speaker 2 (02:31:39):
And having said that, we saw them. There's some they
say it's a civil war in the MAGA group. They
talk about Trump not being for America, is being for
everybody else when he said America first. Do you think
there's any merit to that. What's going on between the
MAGA group and the rank of filgy about Donald Trump's performance, Well, I.

Speaker 8 (02:32:03):
Think it's a serious rip. It's a serious split, particularly
between the Zionists and the pro Nazi faction, if you like,
of the GOP that was all ways on his unsteady marriage.
It was bound to lead to a crack up, and
that's happening now.

Speaker 9 (02:32:22):
Now.

Speaker 8 (02:32:23):
I think it will probably weaken mister Trump's poll numbers.
But as you know, mister Trump is like a cat
with nine lives. He's been able to survive scandal after scandal.
Recall what happened during the twenty sixteen campaign when he
was talking about grabbing the private parts of women. Many

(02:32:44):
thought that that would be the end of this candidacy.
Not only was it not the end, he wind up
winning the election. So it's premature to dance on his grave.

Speaker 2 (02:32:54):
Having said that. Fifteen at the top, and let me
just tell your family, this is doctor Gerald Horny. I
guess doctor horn mentioned the Zionists that are upset because
they've they've been I guess now discriminated against in the
in the Magat group and in parts of the GOP.
But they've also turned out off the Progressives and the Democrats.
So they're basically many of them and then many of
them with money are in no no land. What hamms

(02:33:18):
to them.

Speaker 8 (02:33:19):
Yeah, they really pintied themselves into a corner.

Speaker 1 (02:33:23):
As you have.

Speaker 8 (02:33:23):
Suggested correctly, they've gone after mister Mumdanni with hammer and tum.
The ADL, the Anti Defamation League of the Nay Britain,
a mad designist organization, set up a kind of hip line,
the Mumdani Monitor, where employees of the City of New
York who suspect that they've been subjected to what they

(02:33:45):
call anti Semitism should drop a dime on mister Mumdani
and whoever's working for him. They really need to go
through it agonizing reappraisal because they alienated the left, they're
alienating the right, and they painted themselves into a.

Speaker 2 (02:34:02):
Corner seventeen at the top that we got to take
a short we come back though. Let's let's go back
to the continent. Family, you want to join this discussion
with our guest, doctor doctor Gerald Hon. Doctor Horne is
one of the smartest brothers out there. He's writing two
or three books at one time. He's got several books out.
We're going to talk about him about his books before
he leaves us as well. But you could have a
chance to speak to him right now. All you got

(02:34:23):
to do is doll us up at eight hundred four
five zero seventy eight seventy sixty. We'll take your phone
calls and grind rising. Family. Thanks for staying with us
and an't just starting your week with us. I guess
there's doctor jeryld Horn for the University of Houston. We're
going to go to the content but let's stop first before
we go to the count Let's stop on Wall Street,
doctor Horn, what's going on with Econnor. We can't get
a good reading of the economy because the government was

(02:34:44):
shut down, so we don't know the unemployment ras for example,
we don't know. And they're waiting to know where they're
going to raise or drop interest racis don't They don't
have enough I guess enough elements to work with the
come up with the conclusion, are we in a recession?
We don't know. He keeps saying that he's Biden's and
Connie plays everything on Joe Biden, and then we hear
the crypto is about to crash, and if he does,

(02:35:05):
it's just going to erode Trump's family's wealth. At He's
built a love wealth with him and his family on cryptocurrency.
So can you answer those financial questions for us, Well.

Speaker 8 (02:35:15):
Only look at what mister Trump is doing and you'll
get an idea of what's happening. For example, he calls
himself tariff Man, but because of the rise in groceries,
he's felt compelled to roll back tariffs on coffee from Brazil.
For example. He's rolled back of the tariffs concerning food items,

(02:35:37):
he's feeling the heat. Obviously, with regard to other ideas,
they're really bordering on lunacy. For example, a fifty year mortgage,
which basically turns your bank into your banker into your landlord,
and so you miss a mortgage payment for example, on

(02:35:58):
that fifty year mortgage, could find yourself out on the street.
I don't think that that dog is going to hunt.
With regard to AI, we've already referenced the fact that
that bubble should be bursting at any moment. He may
burst today, for example, which would call for, in mister

(02:36:18):
Trump's eyes, a government bailout. You should also expect a
possible government bailout with regard to Crypto, which, as you
correctly suggest, mister Trump's family has invested heavily in Recall
that before they've invested heavily. He was very critical of
that whole crypto phenomena. But now he's become an evangelist

(02:36:39):
for crypto. But crypto is in the process of crashing,
and that does not bode well with the overall US economy.

Speaker 2 (02:36:48):
Twenty three out the top. Now, it's just like Kasheba
sending a questions in Silver Spring. She says, do you
think AI will be running parts of the government and
especially the executive branch.

Speaker 8 (02:37:00):
Well, I think as a tool it will be used
by the government already. You see that happening in Albania,
the country in southeastern Europe, for example, and I think
that that's just an indication of what's to come. But
I think AI really presents a mortal threatened danger to
middle management, for example. It presents a mortal threatened danger

(02:37:26):
the people at the lower level on Wall Street, or
people at the lower level and big law firms, because
what those folks are doing, artificial intelligence can probably do
more cheaply, and of course they don't call in sick
on Monday morning, for example. Speaking of AI. So this

(02:37:48):
economy is really due for a rough roller coaster ride,
and the victims are going to be many of our neighbors.

Speaker 2 (02:37:57):
Wow, I'm glad you went there with AI because we
talked about Elon Musk and that's the money that he
wants to invest in. Is robots. Is robots are going
to replace human beings. But Donald Trump is saying these
jobs that were left the country are coming back. Who's
telling the truth.

Speaker 8 (02:38:12):
Well, Donald Trump clearly is not telling the truth. Do
not expect these jobs to come back to the United
States of America. That's a fantasy. He must be smoking
the drapes in the Oval Office in order to believe
that nonsense. And I'm afraid to say that many of
the supporters in the Maga Bass Ultimately, I think that's

(02:38:34):
what's leading to their anxiety is anxiety about the state
of economy.

Speaker 7 (02:38:39):
You saw that in that.

Speaker 8 (02:38:42):
Messages that went viral from March Retail and Green where
in resigning from Congress she called out big pharma, neo
cons the military industrial complex. But undergirding it all, underpinning
at all, is an anxiety about what's happening to her base.
The problem with her is that she has no answer.

(02:39:02):
She has no remedy.

Speaker 2 (02:39:05):
Yeah at twenty five the top of that doctor one.
Also the farmers, you know, the black farmers are getting
messed over, and now the white farmers, especially the soybean farmers.
What do you see happening there? Are they going to
get a bail.

Speaker 4 (02:39:19):
Out as well?

Speaker 8 (02:39:21):
It's possible, but it may be too late. Mister Trump,
once again, it's acting in a contradictory fashion. That is
to say, he provided a multi bigion dollar bailout to Argentina,
to the government, and Argentina repaid the favor by unleashing
their soy being farmers on Chinese markets, and they began

(02:39:42):
to purloin and steal markets in China that previously have
belonged to Midwestern soy being farmers. I think in the
next few months you're going to see record bankruptcies in
the farming sector. For example, their land will be bought up,
and you may see them in the unemployment line.

Speaker 2 (02:40:06):
Ironically, many of them are Trumpsters, though of course they're trumpsters.

Speaker 8 (02:40:12):
Look, I mean, there's a lot of backwardness in this country.
People routinely vote against their own interests, and we should
not expect that to end anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (02:40:25):
I'm glad you mentioned that. Well, what about the black folks.
It was still stuck in the Magat crowd. There's still
a bunch of I know, some of agents, some of
them are getting paid, but some of them have they
low information voters. Then how do you see them?

Speaker 8 (02:40:38):
Well, I think you hit the nail on the head.
Many of them are low information voters. Many of them
are hustlers. Many of them are like Senator Tim Scott
South Carolina Byron Donald's of Florida, who feel that they
can personally profit by hopping aboard the Trump train. But
what they need to understand is that the Trump train

(02:41:01):
has set up for a serious train work which will
lead few intact.

Speaker 2 (02:41:08):
Twenty eight at the top of that with doctor Jerald
Horn Bees checking in from Atlanta Online one Online, three
pardon me at Grand Rise and b You're on with
doctor Horn.

Speaker 17 (02:41:18):
Grand Rounds and Bibla called ground Rounds and Barbara Jerald
Horn If you don't mind, can you elaborate on the
difficulties you have acquiring your immigration papers in Canada. I
think many of us are like to know just some
of the hurdles one may face to try to find
a new home or find a new place of revenue
during this chaos. And I hope you the team have

(02:41:38):
an our Standing Day ancestor team throughout your insight and wisdom.
Thank you at Outstanding Day.

Speaker 8 (02:41:43):
Brother.

Speaker 10 (02:41:45):
Well.

Speaker 8 (02:41:46):
Canada has a point system with regard to accepting immigrants.
Now I was not able to come up with enough
enough points. For example, they do not necessarily favor people
in my age group because they feel that people like
myself just want to come to Canada. For the free healthcare,
which actually there is something to that I must confess.
And then they get points to those who are fluent

(02:42:09):
in French. I read French, but I'm not fluent in
the language. And that was a demerit against my record
as well.

Speaker 2 (02:42:19):
All right, thanks b speaking about that though, Uh let
me we'll take another call twenty eight after the top. Now,
Jason joining us from New York is say stay with
us on New York. Kevin, I just said, all these
lines are stry. Okay, maybe Jay hung up? Is he
still like Kevin?

Speaker 4 (02:42:40):
Oh? Oh okay, Sorry by that, Jay.

Speaker 2 (02:42:41):
We wanted to hear what your question for doctor Hornwood,
Doctor Hornt You know you talked about immigration. You talk
about the problems that you know Canada, what about the continent.
Let's go to the content now. Is it easier or
should you or should we consider, you know, all the
problems that look looking ahead of us. Should we consider,
you know, migrating to the content either as a short

(02:43:05):
term you know, effort or full time? How do you
say the content?

Speaker 7 (02:43:10):
Well?

Speaker 8 (02:43:11):
Sure, I mean, but of course it should be investigated
beforehand because many of these African nations, Caribbean nations, they
have problems of their own, and so you should have
some sort of financial stash in hand. If you're planning
to migrate to a foreign country, you should be obviously

(02:43:32):
conversant in the language or a language of the country
to which you're residing through which you're migrating. You should
to consider it the downside risk, consider political stability, political
instability because you don't want to be caught up and
some sort of coup data. But in any case, many

(02:43:53):
African nations or throwing open the doors for Black American migrants,
Ghana in particular, as you know, there's a substantial number
of Black American migrants in Ghana already, and of course
other Ghanaan neighbors too should be explored.

Speaker 2 (02:44:15):
Got you thirty minutes after the top. They have family
with doctor Joel Horn from the University of Houston. He's
an African American history Africana history professor. There's also an
attorney as well, by the way, if you like to
speak to him. Eight hundred and four five zero seventy
eight seventy six. Jay's joining us again. I think he
called back. He's from New York City's online two Grand Rising.

Speaker 4 (02:44:35):
Jay. Your question for doctor Horn.

Speaker 10 (02:44:38):
And Yeah, good morning, calling Dotor on two things. Basically,
Number one, in regards to this economy, I think it's
just about to collapse. I think there's really no upside
on it. I'm just hoping the only thing that may

(02:45:01):
save it is if the Supreme Court stands up and
do the right thing in regards to these terrors and
just makes it to whereas he can't continue to implement
these terrors, maybe we will recover. Also, I agree with
you in regards to bitcoined, I think that's a disaster

(02:45:27):
just waiting to happen, that he will and his family
basically will profit from like they have, which I think
is kind of illegal. But you know, the Congress and
the Senate won't stand up to him. And also in
regards to Venezuela and this implemation of war that it

(02:45:51):
seems that this sick individual is dead set on implementing.
I guess to take away from what's going on with
Epstein and in regards to using Venezuela to slow down

(02:46:12):
this Epstein situation, which it won't stop. And I will say,
as a New Yorker, someone who.

Speaker 7 (02:46:21):
Has been.

Speaker 10 (02:46:23):
In his circles as a driver, I'm gonna put it
to you like this, He's guilty, and a whole lot
of other people are guilty of doing what they say
they're accused of doing because as a driver, I picked

(02:46:44):
up a lot of women and took them to their
houses into hotels.

Speaker 8 (02:46:54):
But you need to write a memoir or at least
talk to a journey well.

Speaker 6 (02:46:58):
I don't want to.

Speaker 10 (02:46:58):
I don't want to be honest with you, doctor Horn.
I'm not the only one. There's a lot of people
in New York City who are in the driving business.
Who knows this, but we would like to live. And
the thing is this, and this is the thing that
amazes me, honestly, both you and call if you understand

(02:47:24):
the nature of people who have power when it comes
to sexual behavior, I don't understand why people are shocked
by this, because you know from my career, and I'm
gonna say this honestly, the only reason I was able

(02:47:44):
to have any success in this life is because of
that job and my ability to keep my eyes open
and my ears open and my mouth shut. Because I've
said in cars with some of the richest people in
this country and listen to them run their mouths, and

(02:48:08):
luckily I had the ability to understand the stock market.
That allowed me to do some decent things. But the
reality is they're basically all sexual perverts. But it's something
that people in the no. No, but you can't really
say it. I couldn't say to you well blah blah

(02:48:29):
blah blah blah blah, I wouldn't be here. But the
fact of the matter.

Speaker 13 (02:48:34):
Is it's true.

Speaker 10 (02:48:36):
It's true. I've seen it.

Speaker 1 (02:48:37):
I'm wanna jump.

Speaker 2 (02:48:39):
Let me jump as question, Jay, let me ask you
a question. You say it's true the sexual devian but
with children.

Speaker 10 (02:48:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've picked up I've picked up sixteen
year olds, seventeen year olds and all of that, and
took them to hotels, took them to places.

Speaker 7 (02:49:03):
They've a call.

Speaker 10 (02:49:05):
If you know anybody that's in the in the industry
at that at that time, they will tell you you yeah.
I mean, it's it's a real closed society these people.
That's why they're working so hard to keep this information
from coming out. But if the truth was told, yeah, yeah,

(02:49:30):
That's why I've never been shocked by this, because you
have to experience something to know if it's right or wrong.
Got People don't want to be people don't want to
tell that truth. But you know something, I'll leave you
with this call. If the truth came out, nothing would
happen to Trump because his base are sickle finds, they kodish,

(02:49:56):
they they don't care. And the sad thing is I
would like for evil one of y'all to tell me
or one off it's supported.

Speaker 8 (02:50:05):
What are you doing good for them?

Speaker 2 (02:50:08):
All right, Jay, we ought to take a short break,
but I thank you for your questions. Yes, sir, I'll
let Professor on tackle that question as well, because when
you say children, it makes a difference. All the defiants
are sexual defense, but we children. There's a line to
be drawn right there, twenty four minutes away from the
top there, family, I guess did Professor Gerald Horney he
teaches at the University of het ain't got a question

(02:50:29):
on anything? Even sports? Edits tambored he can answer. He's
one of the smartest brothers we have on the planet.
And you can reach him at eight hundred four or
five zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll take your
phone calls next and Grand Rising family, thanks for staying
with us on this Monday morning. Thanks for making us
part of your morning. Richel I guess is the doctor
Jeryl Horn from the University of Houston. Doctor Horne Jay
talked about the sexual defense that's probably contained in the

(02:50:52):
Epstein files, that they changed so hard to get us
not to see. But is that the concernercy, the concern
that some of them involved children? How do you see
what that they you know what they're fighting so hard
to keep these away from the public.

Speaker 8 (02:51:06):
Well, all of the above obviously is implicating many powerful people.
You saw mister Trump was mentioned numerous times and these emails.
We've seen that the former Treasury secretary and Harvard University
president Doug Lawrence Summers has been forced to step back
from public life. There will be many others in that category.

(02:51:26):
But what should also be concerning is the defense of
mister Epstein and his powerful cronies. Megan Kelly, the former
Fox News host, has suggested that we should draw a
distinction between abuse of a five year old and abuse
of a fifteen year old. In other words, she's unilaterally

(02:51:49):
trying to change the law, for example, not to mention
our moral perceptions. I think that this is only the
beginning of a downward spiral, not only of this societal,
of this society but also a downward spiral in terms
of how children are maltreated.

Speaker 2 (02:52:06):
But having said that, Dr Horn, the files, if they
are really that's a big if right there.

Speaker 4 (02:52:13):
How do we know they have.

Speaker 2 (02:52:14):
Been altered, adocted, blackwashed if you will, before they release
in the public.

Speaker 8 (02:52:20):
Well, we don't know, and I think that that's something
that we're going to have to investigate further. Of course,
there will be many loopholes the town BONDI the Attorney
General will pursue, particularly in order to save the scalp
of our supervisors. Speaking of mister Trump himself, But that's

(02:52:42):
the situation we now faith, and let's see what happens.

Speaker 2 (02:52:45):
Sixteen away from the top of at least John, and
that's from Baltimore A LEAs on line three. Grand Rising Lee,
your question for doctor.

Speaker 18 (02:52:51):
Horn, Yes, Grand Rising and thank you for taking my call,
Doctor Horn and brother Nelson. How will are economy be
financially affected when individuals who have taxes taken out of
our wages is no longer done when they implement the
AI box to do the work.

Speaker 8 (02:53:13):
Well, that's a good question. As I said, I don't
think that the state, the government. Speaking of mister Trump
and his cronies are taking a panoramic view of what's
happening with this economy. They're all pursuing their narrow interests,
which is to profit handsomely from layoffs, for example, from

(02:53:36):
getting rid of human labor, but are not necessarily thinking
through the downside consequences, for example, who will buy the
products that are being produced? Particularly, there will be difficulty
in exporting the projects because of mister Trump alienating most
of the partners ferstwhile trading partners, including the European Union, Canada, Mexico.

(02:54:01):
Mister Trump has threatened to mob Mexico, you might have noticed,
even though Mexico is probably the most important purchaser of
US goods and services right now. So obviously this is
a real crisis that it's fair to become even worse.

Speaker 2 (02:54:19):
All right, Thanks leaving, Thanks your question, Thanks your question.
Let's go to the continent the recent G twenty summit.
Donald Trump wasn't there. This is where it's supposed to
be a handover meeting with a handover the I guess
the leadership of the G twenty to the United States.
But China was there, So what did you see? How
will this impact America? Do you think if it does.

Speaker 5 (02:54:44):
Well.

Speaker 8 (02:54:44):
What this G twenty meeting showed is that oftentimes these
international meetings go more smoothly if the United States is absent.
You saw a hint of that also at the Climate
change summit in Brazil just this past week as well.
Trump ignores the fact that Prime Minister Mode of India
showed up, the Prime Minister in Great Britain, Chris Starmers,

(02:55:08):
or Chris Starmers showed up, President of Macrone of France,
Chancellor Mertz Germany, Prime Minister Carney of Canada not mentioned,
not to mention, a number of other leaders. And so
just because the United States becomes petulant and decides to boycott,
that doesn't mean that there will be followers.

Speaker 2 (02:55:29):
But does this pave the way for China to move in?
Because now the African leaders have seen that China wants
to come in and instead of the United States and
Donald Trump wants to lecture them, but the China wants
to come and say, hey, let's work together, how can
we make some money. Do you you think that said
it gives them a good footing or solid footing on
the content as opposed to the US, or does see
the United States don't want to be involved in Africa.

Speaker 4 (02:55:51):
How do you read it?

Speaker 8 (02:55:53):
Well, the United States, speaking of mister Trump, has spent
an ordinate amount of time insulting Africa, replete with so
called s whole nations, according to mister Trump, threatening to
invade Nigeria, guns of blazing, ambushing President of South Africa
in the Oval office, for example. So mister Trump has

(02:56:14):
made clear that Africa is is not on his list
of priorities, and Africa has returned to disfavor by saying
the United States is not on our list of priorities,
particularly when there's an alternative in Beijing.

Speaker 2 (02:56:30):
Are we seen the decline of the United States as
the world's pre eminent economy As China passed us by,
people are going to be talking about the United States
as something that is a pasted, you know, a relic
pretty soon.

Speaker 8 (02:56:45):
How do you see, Well, it's not only myself who's
been arguing with us for a number of years, but others,
even the business press, you'll notice numerous articles about the
decline of the United States of America. By some measures,
the Chinese economy was larger than the United States economy

(02:57:05):
as early as twenty fourteen, and that trend inevitably will continue.
If you look ahead to twenty fifty, it's unclear if
even the United States will be the number two economy.
India will probably occupy that slot, for example. So this
was not inevitable. There were a number of miscalculations by

(02:57:28):
Washington and by Wall Street that has led to this result.
Question is will they pay a price for their misdeeds
and misdoings.

Speaker 2 (02:57:39):
The reaction by the Democrats they seem to almost be
complicit with this. They don't seem to be really coming
out full throated against Donald Trump and his policies.

Speaker 4 (02:57:50):
How do you see them?

Speaker 2 (02:57:51):
Are they sitting aside hoping that it collapses and they
can blame the Republicans and look good because it didn't
happen on a their watch.

Speaker 8 (02:58:00):
That was the advice of James Carvell, the former Clinton
administration counselor, now eighty one years old. He suggested in
an obed some months ago, precisely that that the Democrats
should sit on their hands and then wait for everything
to collapse, and then they'll come rushing in blaming their
Republicans for the collapse. That seems utterly cynical, but it

(02:58:25):
may have been the project of this withdrawal on the
government shutdown, where the government was shut down for forty
plus a day supposedly over healthcare premiums, and then the
government was reopened without any Republican real concessions of healthcare premiums,

(02:58:46):
which by the way, are abound to go up spectacularly
within the next few weeks.

Speaker 2 (02:58:52):
Well, you know, they they complained about Obamacare, dodr Horn,
but if still they don't have a they don't have
an alternative. They've had what about twenty years to come
up with One's what's the problem?

Speaker 8 (02:59:04):
Well, I think you should reasonably infer that they don't
have a plan. They don't even have a concept of
a plan, as mister Trump said in his debate with
Kamala Harris about a year or so ago. And so
part of the problem is that the Maga Basse, although
racked with internal cleavages, they're still hanging on to mister

(02:59:28):
Trump for dear life because they feel that somehow he
will pull the rabbit out of the hat and somehow
direct them to the pot of gold at the end
of the rainbow.

Speaker 2 (02:59:42):
Nine minutes away from the top of albm with doctor
Joel and Josh Holl let's let's go back to the
continent for a moment. What's going on in Molly and
Bikino Fasha two of this is all nations.

Speaker 8 (02:59:54):
Well, what's going on is an explosion of religious zelts,
that's to say, the religious extremists who call themselves Muslim.
They have a impending blockade on Bambaco, the capital of
Mali in Burkina Fasso. Of course, they are attacking relentlessly

(03:00:14):
the government of mister Trori, the charismatic leader. Something similar
is happening in Niger, the third member of that progressive trio.
And then I'm sure you've seen the stories coming out
of Northern Nigeria. Although we reject unilaterally the allegations and

(03:00:35):
proposals of Nicki Minaj, the fact is that these reactionaries
who call themselves a Muslim are busily kidnapping Christian children,
although to be fair, they also are wreaking havoc on
their fellow Muslim populations as well, and there needs to
be something done, But the United States going in with

(03:00:56):
guns ablaze ablazing is the worst possible remedy. If the
United States wants to help, they should consult with the
government of President Tanubu and ask what he needs and
then try to assist that government. But going into Nigeria
over the heads of the government, that's obviously a bridge

(03:01:17):
too far.

Speaker 2 (03:01:18):
Yeah, ate away from the top of doctor Horne. Let's
go to East Africa, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Tigeray to Gray. Have
they getting him back to a war?

Speaker 8 (03:01:29):
It's possible. Sadly enough, Ethiopia has made it clear that
it not only wants an outlet to the sea. When
Eritrea seceded from Ethiopia some decades ago, it removed its
major port. Ethiopia has conflicts with Somalia, which in turn

(03:01:50):
is being bolstered by Egypt, and then into Great Province.
You know that for months there was a very bloody
conflict betweing that province and the leaders of the centralized
government and as Ambaba. There's still a lot of discontent
into Great and that situation could boil over any day.

Speaker 14 (03:02:12):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:02:13):
I got to ask you a sports question for I'll
let you go and I should I should?

Speaker 4 (03:02:18):
Should?

Speaker 2 (03:02:18):
I Sander's got his first start in the NFL for
Cleveland and the uh the coaches saying this is not
in stone that he'll start the next game What is
this coach missing is what's what's going on with that franchise?
And should Sanders.

Speaker 8 (03:02:36):
Well, obviously he is not favored, otherwise he would have
been starting before Dylan Gabriel his processor got hurt, got hurt,
for example. I think that there's obviously a backlash against
his father, the charismatic Dion Sanders coach prime who's having

(03:02:57):
a tough season with the Colorado Buffalo for example. As
a matter of fact, there's been talked about his being
an unemployment line or at least not returning as coach
if his record does not improve shortly.

Speaker 2 (03:03:12):
And doctor Horn, as I mentioned, you've written several books.
What is your latest book and where can we get it?

Speaker 8 (03:03:18):
So the Capital of Slavery, Washington, d c. Eighteen hundred
to eighteen sixty five. You can get it in Sankofa
in Washington or better bookstores elsewhere, probably at Red Emma's
in Baltimore. I have another book coming out in the
spring which I've just made reference to.

Speaker 7 (03:03:35):
That is to say, these.

Speaker 8 (03:03:37):
Conflicts at the end of the nineteenth century between the
United States and Hawaii and the Philippines. Part of the plan,
as noted, was to deport the US Negroes into the Pacific.
It did not happen for various reasons. And then I'm
writing right now a book on the slave trade, the
Trans Saharan slave trade. Morocco was a major culprit in

(03:04:01):
the slave trade, this Transaharent slave trade, but also Egypt.
Egypt has a lot to apologize for with regard to
the enslavement of Nubians, with regard to its contemporary policies.
Recalled that it boycotted Kevin Hark, the comic and actor,
after he expressed the true history of Egypt in terms

(03:04:25):
of the influence from Nubia, for example. It also played
a similar number on Jada Pink and Smith after she
was trying to produce a biopic about Cleopatrack that pursued
her that portrayed her as a melon and rich woman.
There's a lot of anxiety obviously in Egypt about darker

(03:04:49):
skinned people, and they really need to come to grips
with that.

Speaker 2 (03:04:53):
Shay on that one before we let you go? Can
follow you on social media? How to how can we
follow a doctor Horn?

Speaker 8 (03:04:59):
Well, you can f there's a Facebook page devoted to
my work and I would direct listeners to that and
of course, I'll direct listeners and viewers to YouTube, where
there are enough videos to keep you busy for the
next century or so.

Speaker 2 (03:05:15):
All right, thank you, doctor Horn, Thank you for all
the information that you shared.

Speaker 4 (03:05:19):
With us this morning.

Speaker 8 (03:05:21):
Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 2 (03:05:22):
All right, family, that's it. Class is dismissed for the day.
Thank you, Professor Jerald Horn for being with us this morning.
Before we go, before we just want in mind we're
back here tomorrow morning and six right here in Baltimore
on ten ten WLB, and also in the DMV on
fourteen fifty WOL.

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