June 25, 2025 • 11 mins
Across the last 18 seasons of the Clink, We have had some really raw conversations. This is one of them with Johnny 2 Guns
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hm, I approache production.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, it was just you know what probably at that
at that time and probably like those people say to me,
is that I probably I probably needed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Some jail time, probably not eight years. I don't.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Just to bring you back to reality a little bit,
do you think because you've become so wild.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Reckless and wild and thought, you know, if there's a
time there, I thought, fucking you know, we can do
what we want.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
No one's going to stop, which which which would have
evidently led you to probably being dead, not being here
today and your son without a day.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And that's and that's where it would have led, because
I mean, you're going to be so reckless and there's
always someone bigger and better.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It doesn't matter who you are, what you absolutely, what
you think you're doing.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It doesn't like you said, it only takes one to
get hiding that wrong spot or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You I mean, even like, look at.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Life today, brother, you look a good life for Sydney,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
That they're throwing around peanuts and people who are just
taking women kids, man like, it's fucking disgusted.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know the way that it is today is just.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Beyond anything ever we were living by by rural code
or you know, that was just you just didn't do it,
you know.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And and even once the drive by started, you know,
that wasn't the game, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
And it's very very very honest about what you're saying
in reference to that, you could have been very vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, I just I mean, it was just like with
with with our with our crime, it was just it
was just it was just a random something random that
it happened and there was no there was no there was
no man and there was nothing, there was nothing in it,
you know, I mean, it was it was it was
a fight, and you know what I mean, And you know,
and someone's passed away from it. And obviously I mean,
(01:55):
I mean not taking anything away from what happened, but
it's just where it happened. Obviously had a clubhouse, bike
is involved. Yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
The best, best pop possible story for a media outlet,
worst possible scenario for you blokes there.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And likes.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I don't take nothing away from the bloke that lost
his life, But at the same time, I always stayed
Peel that we were the clubhouse that day.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Mine our own business. No one, no one asked him
to come down.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I mean, he come down there and he had he
had a he had a fairedingcom issue with the Bandittos,
and it was it was a issue he had with
the Bandittos, nothing to do with our chapter, nothing to
do with the boys that were in the clubouse that day,
and obviously something our flights broake out and the blokes
lost his life and you and yeah, I mean what.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Was that like for you going through that court process.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, for me, it was all new because, like you said,
I was I was a late I was a late
starter in sort of the world of crime because obviously
being in the boxing gym from thirteen, I mean, you know,
we wouldn't make it being kids that would We've been
in our fair share of stolen cars or done whatever,
marked up, punched on or But back in the day,
(03:09):
I was more scared of my dad and I would
be the police, you know, I mean, so bring the
cops to our house. I would have read more worried
about what he's going to do to me than what
the jacks are going to do to me. But yeah,
like you said, being a late starter, so I went
when we went through this, and I found myself in
remand it was all because it was all new to me.
It was like I was obviously learning, learning the way
(03:32):
of the jail, and obviously I had a lot of
mates when obviously when I got in there, I had
a lot of mates already in there, and boys and
crews that I already knew. And so I mean they passed,
they paved the way for us.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Man, So I probably I did jar a lot easier
than you know, some other people that go in there
not knowing anyone. So the process for me was it
was you know, when I look back now, it was
just it was really just a blur because it was
all new. I didn't really know what to expect. I mean,
I knew I knew the end of the day there
was going to be you know when we when now,
(04:05):
when when one of the Kobe's turned turned crown witness,
I mean it was sort of like he put he
sort of likes, yeah, he's he opened his mouth, and
that's why I got the opportunity to plead, to plead
demand slaughter to give my to give my Kobe. You know,
(04:27):
one of my brothers still today, a good good friend
of mine, a fair runn at trial, good good affair
run a trial on his own without yeah, without the
crown witness putting any of my obviously, anything to do
with me then had to be taken out of it.
So I've pled demand Stare to give him a fair run.
And obviously he got.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Yeah, I've seen that. You put your hand up and
plaid guilty.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
And I thank you for explaining that, because I look,
I was curious to why.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
And then obviously you know what I mean, you you're
confronted with, uh, you know, a crown witness. Obviously that.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Makes the allegations and sometime arms the allegations in that
situation outweigh the not guilty, and he and.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The and the and the and the bloke that went
crown on us who was once one of my best
mates or one of our he was one of our brothers.
But you know, I mean he's one of our brothers,
and he was the same patch as us as man
you and but when when he turned he really he
really dug he really dug it into the mccawi, my
(05:30):
little brother. And so there was there was really no opportunity.
I mean there we could run a trial. But I
mean as lawyers, my lawyers rub their hands when when
this blow went crownd they were wrapped because it was
it was probably the best outcome for me, but I'm not.
I wouldn't sit there and let him do what he
was doing to my little brother. So I just pled
(05:52):
the man slow to give him a fair run, to
give him a fear runner his own a trial, and
then it'd be just him against him, I mean. And
then it took out, it took out a lot of
evidence they couldn't use.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Then, So yeah, I mean, then he got an opportunity
to get manslaughter as well, because the way the way the.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Crown was pushing it was someone was going to go
down for murder, you know, I mean, so.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I had to put it. You know, we had to
do what we had to do.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And you know that's what you know when you when
you put that patch on, and I was still I
was still abandoned for six years of my sentence too.
So when you wear that patch, you do what you
got to do for your brothers. And if that's what
you if you got to begin it, you got to
begin whatever's going to work.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
We're in this.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
If your brother's wounded, it was always in war, wasn't
it make you pick him up? You don't leave him behind.
You put him over your shoulder and you carry it,
you know. And basically, I mean, you know, without going
into any more depth about that, that's.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Just how it was. And you know, like, wow, you're
here today. How long were your sentenced to?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So originally?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So originally I was sentenced to eight with six eight
years with a six on the bottom for the manslaughter.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
This is for the manslaughter.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And then during my remand time at mr C Melbourne
on the Romand Center, I was involved in a jaril right,
we had a right down there, which is a pretty
well known right down here in two sixteen over the
smoking band. So I've got an extra two years on
top and another year on the bottom side my sentence
(07:18):
and I've going up to ten with us I end
up doing ten with a seven.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So yeah, how much of that do you have to
do in segra because of the right?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, twenty two months in the slot in the slot
I've done, Yeah, Charlotte down at Port Phillip, it's probably
one that I'd say it's it's the worst I've been.
I've been a baring slots and I've been a bar
and slot and it's the worst slot in the system,
Paul Philip Charlotte. It's I mean, it's broke a lot
of blokes down there, a lot of I've seen a
(07:46):
lot of that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I was about to say that they put you in
those places to break it, you know, like we look
at the super Max and all that in New South Wales.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I mean I did twelve months in Segra.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, in my sixty sentence and you.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Know what, it's a tough fucking war, yeah, saying you've
got to get used to your own person and you
you just that's it, mate. You know you'll hear a
few yells and screams through the fucking back of the yard.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
You don't see anyone. And I said, coming past you.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So it's it's it's a very very lonely lonely and
you're totally controlled. They don't want to let you up
for shell, The don't want to let you get fucking
phone call, They want to give you your mail, They
want to fuck with your head.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
They do it, and they do it, and that's and
that's yet what they do down there. I mean the
portions of food and if you.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Blow up, they throw the squad in one for the
back door, on for the front door and they just
fucking pump you.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
And then what are you gonna do? You can't you
try and square up. Yeah, there's a no win situation.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It's just to be literally, you know, it's just it's
just to take a little bit more man who are
away from you. And it's it's what like you said,
it's like you said, one hundred percent of the max
slots of.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
The design to break up.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And and it does break a lot of people and
at the same time, for me, it made me stronger.
It may you know, I mean, like you get you
get that attitude and you get back to your your
ground roots and you think, you know what I mean,
you're not gonna You're not gonna fuck me.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, I mean you're going to take more than this
to fuck me.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So emotionally, like now I've been out for nine months,
I'm emotionally it's it's probably done a lot of negative
talk to me because I find it very hard to
get emotional about things now. And really it makes it
makes you a lot harder, but hard in situations where
people out here probably don't realize why you've been like
(09:31):
that and how you can be so shallow. But when
you're in there and you're living what you said. You
live in one hour and you only got to get
used to yourself and you get in that one phone
call a day. And for a long time in prison,
I just turned off from the outside world and my
phone calls would be fake, I'd say, you know from.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How it was just it was a repeated record.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You know, you ring up your loved one, How are you,
how's the sun?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
How's this? That's good? How school? Yeah? Okay, bye blah.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It was all just pre recorded in your brain. You
didn't even go back to your sound and thinking about
what you just spoke about. It's just you turn off
from the outside world. And for me, that's how that's
how I found doing my eight years of jar.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's that's how I got through it. You do, yeah,
you do.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You have to become numb. I mean, look, I won't lie.
You know, like I, like yourself, was on Raman and
I was looking at ten. I ended up with the
six and I pled guilty basically since I seen the
brief and you know, just shut down the case.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
That's its simple as that I was charged, got me whatever.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But you know, I had this mentality where fuck the world,
like I was.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
An angry man, and you know, people don't understand.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I mean, in that situation that you're in obviously, right,
you know, if you kick off and you're in, you're in.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
You know, if you're not, then stay the well out
of the way.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
But you know, when you when you're upsetting a wing
because you've got a bad attitude, not so much with
the inmates, but with the screws, it doesn't do your
no favors with the inmates because there's other things going
on around now that especially blakes that have been there
a long time. You know, different things happening here and there,
whatever it might be, it's but by the by you
firing up and you can cause ramps, you fucking getting tipped,
(11:11):
bringing other people down around you without you even knowing.
It can become very fucking dangerous for just anyone and
everyone's wonderable no matter who you are. You fuck sit up,
and for all these young blokes out there listening that
you know might be thinking that you're.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Hard and going to jail and all the rest of it.
I guarantee you when you step into that yard, you're
fucking no one there
Hm, I approache production.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, it was just you know what probably at that
at that time and probably like those people say to me,
is that I probably I probably needed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Some jail time, probably not eight years. I don't.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Just to bring you back to reality a little bit,
do you think because you've become so wild.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Reckless and wild and thought, you know, if there's a
time there, I thought, fucking you know, we can do
what we want.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
No one's going to stop, which which which would have
evidently led you to probably being dead, not being here
today and your son without a day.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And that's and that's where it would have led, because
I mean, you're going to be so reckless and there's
always someone bigger and better.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It doesn't matter who you are, what you absolutely, what
you think you're doing.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It doesn't like you said, it only takes one to
get hiding that wrong spot or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You I mean, even like, look at.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Life today, brother, you look a good life for Sydney,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
That they're throwing around peanuts and people who are just
taking women kids, man like, it's fucking disgusted.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know the way that it is today is just.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Beyond anything ever we were living by by rural code
or you know, that was just you just didn't do it,
you know.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And and even once the drive by started, you know,
that wasn't the game, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
And it's very very very honest about what you're saying
in reference to that, you could have been very vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, I just I mean, it was just like with
with with our with our crime, it was just it
was just it was just a random something random that
it happened and there was no there was no there was
no man and there was nothing, there was nothing in it,
you know, I mean, it was it was it was
a fight, and you know what I mean, And you know,
and someone's passed away from it. And obviously I mean,
(01:55):
I mean not taking anything away from what happened, but
it's just where it happened. Obviously had a clubhouse, bike
is involved. Yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
The best, best pop possible story for a media outlet,
worst possible scenario for you blokes there.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And likes.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I don't take nothing away from the bloke that lost
his life, But at the same time, I always stayed
Peel that we were the clubhouse that day.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Mine our own business. No one, no one asked him
to come down.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I mean, he come down there and he had he
had a he had a fairedingcom issue with the Bandittos,
and it was it was a issue he had with
the Bandittos, nothing to do with our chapter, nothing to
do with the boys that were in the clubouse that day,
and obviously something our flights broake out and the blokes
lost his life and you and yeah, I mean what.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Was that like for you going through that court process.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, for me, it was all new because, like you said,
I was I was a late I was a late
starter in sort of the world of crime because obviously
being in the boxing gym from thirteen, I mean, you know,
we wouldn't make it being kids that would We've been
in our fair share of stolen cars or done whatever,
marked up, punched on or But back in the day,
(03:09):
I was more scared of my dad and I would
be the police, you know, I mean, so bring the
cops to our house. I would have read more worried
about what he's going to do to me than what
the jacks are going to do to me. But yeah,
like you said, being a late starter, so I went
when we went through this, and I found myself in
remand it was all because it was all new to me.
It was like I was obviously learning, learning the way
(03:32):
of the jail, and obviously I had a lot of
mates when obviously when I got in there, I had
a lot of mates already in there, and boys and
crews that I already knew. And so I mean they passed,
they paved the way for us.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Man, So I probably I did jar a lot easier
than you know, some other people that go in there
not knowing anyone. So the process for me was it
was you know, when I look back now, it was
just it was really just a blur because it was
all new. I didn't really know what to expect. I mean,
I knew I knew the end of the day there
was going to be you know when we when now,
(04:05):
when when one of the Kobe's turned turned crown witness,
I mean it was sort of like he put he
sort of likes, yeah, he's he opened his mouth, and
that's why I got the opportunity to plead, to plead
demand slaughter to give my to give my Kobe. You know,
(04:27):
one of my brothers still today, a good good friend
of mine, a fair runn at trial, good good affair
run a trial on his own without yeah, without the
crown witness putting any of my obviously, anything to do
with me then had to be taken out of it.
So I've pled demand Stare to give him a fair run.
And obviously he got.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Yeah, I've seen that. You put your hand up and
plaid guilty.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
And I thank you for explaining that, because I look,
I was curious to why.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
And then obviously you know what I mean, you you're
confronted with, uh, you know, a crown witness. Obviously that.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Makes the allegations and sometime arms the allegations in that
situation outweigh the not guilty, and he and.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The and the and the and the bloke that went
crown on us who was once one of my best
mates or one of our he was one of our brothers.
But you know, I mean he's one of our brothers,
and he was the same patch as us as man
you and but when when he turned he really he
really dug he really dug it into the mccawi, my
(05:30):
little brother. And so there was there was really no opportunity.
I mean there we could run a trial. But I
mean as lawyers, my lawyers rub their hands when when
this blow went crownd they were wrapped because it was
it was probably the best outcome for me, but I'm not.
I wouldn't sit there and let him do what he
was doing to my little brother. So I just pled
(05:52):
the man slow to give him a fair run, to
give him a fear runner his own a trial, and
then it'd be just him against him, I mean. And
then it took out, it took out a lot of
evidence they couldn't use.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Then, So yeah, I mean, then he got an opportunity
to get manslaughter as well, because the way the way the.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Crown was pushing it was someone was going to go
down for murder, you know, I mean, so.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I had to put it. You know, we had to
do what we had to do.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And you know that's what you know when you when
you put that patch on, and I was still I
was still abandoned for six years of my sentence too.
So when you wear that patch, you do what you
got to do for your brothers. And if that's what
you if you got to begin it, you got to
begin whatever's going to work.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
We're in this.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
If your brother's wounded, it was always in war, wasn't
it make you pick him up? You don't leave him behind.
You put him over your shoulder and you carry it,
you know. And basically, I mean, you know, without going
into any more depth about that, that's.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Just how it was. And you know, like, wow, you're
here today. How long were your sentenced to?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So originally?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So originally I was sentenced to eight with six eight
years with a six on the bottom for the manslaughter.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
This is for the manslaughter.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And then during my remand time at mr C Melbourne
on the Romand Center, I was involved in a jaril right,
we had a right down there, which is a pretty
well known right down here in two sixteen over the
smoking band. So I've got an extra two years on
top and another year on the bottom side my sentence
(07:18):
and I've going up to ten with us I end
up doing ten with a seven.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So yeah, how much of that do you have to
do in segra because of the right?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, twenty two months in the slot in the slot
I've done, Yeah, Charlotte down at Port Phillip, it's probably
one that I'd say it's it's the worst I've been.
I've been a baring slots and I've been a bar
and slot and it's the worst slot in the system,
Paul Philip Charlotte. It's I mean, it's broke a lot
of blokes down there, a lot of I've seen a
(07:46):
lot of that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I was about to say that they put you in
those places to break it, you know, like we look
at the super Max and all that in New South Wales.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I mean I did twelve months in Segra.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, in my sixty sentence and you.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Know what, it's a tough fucking war, yeah, saying you've
got to get used to your own person and you
you just that's it, mate. You know you'll hear a
few yells and screams through the fucking back of the yard.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
You don't see anyone. And I said, coming past you.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So it's it's it's a very very lonely lonely and
you're totally controlled. They don't want to let you up
for shell, The don't want to let you get fucking
phone call, They want to give you your mail, They
want to fuck with your head.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
They do it, and they do it, and that's and
that's yet what they do down there. I mean the
portions of food and if you.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Blow up, they throw the squad in one for the
back door, on for the front door and they just
fucking pump you.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
And then what are you gonna do? You can't you
try and square up. Yeah, there's a no win situation.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It's just to be literally, you know, it's just it's
just to take a little bit more man who are
away from you. And it's it's what like you said,
it's like you said, one hundred percent of the max
slots of.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
The design to break up.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And and it does break a lot of people and
at the same time, for me, it made me stronger.
It may you know, I mean, like you get you
get that attitude and you get back to your your
ground roots and you think, you know what I mean,
you're not gonna You're not gonna fuck me.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, I mean you're going to take more than this
to fuck me.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So emotionally, like now I've been out for nine months,
I'm emotionally it's it's probably done a lot of negative
talk to me because I find it very hard to
get emotional about things now. And really it makes it
makes you a lot harder, but hard in situations where
people out here probably don't realize why you've been like
(09:31):
that and how you can be so shallow. But when
you're in there and you're living what you said. You
live in one hour and you only got to get
used to yourself and you get in that one phone
call a day. And for a long time in prison,
I just turned off from the outside world and my
phone calls would be fake, I'd say, you know from.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How it was just it was a repeated record.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You know, you ring up your loved one, How are you,
how's the sun?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
How's this? That's good? How school? Yeah? Okay, bye blah.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It was all just pre recorded in your brain. You
didn't even go back to your sound and thinking about
what you just spoke about. It's just you turn off
from the outside world. And for me, that's how that's
how I found doing my eight years of jar.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's that's how I got through it. You do, yeah,
you do.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You have to become numb. I mean, look, I won't lie.
You know, like I, like yourself, was on Raman and
I was looking at ten. I ended up with the
six and I pled guilty basically since I seen the
brief and you know, just shut down the case.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
That's its simple as that I was charged, got me whatever.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But you know, I had this mentality where fuck the world,
like I was.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
An angry man, and you know, people don't understand.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I mean, in that situation that you're in obviously, right,
you know, if you kick off and you're in, you're in.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
You know, if you're not, then stay the well out
of the way.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
But you know, when you when you're upsetting a wing
because you've got a bad attitude, not so much with
the inmates, but with the screws, it doesn't do your
no favors with the inmates because there's other things going
on around now that especially blakes that have been there
a long time. You know, different things happening here and there,
whatever it might be, it's but by the by you
firing up and you can cause ramps, you fucking getting tipped,
(11:11):
bringing other people down around you without you even knowing.
It can become very fucking dangerous for just anyone and
everyone's wonderable no matter who you are. You fuck sit up,
and for all these young blokes out there listening that
you know might be thinking that you're.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Hard and going to jail and all the rest of it.
I guarantee you when you step into that yard, you're
fucking no one there
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