Are God’s Promises to Israel Still Active? | A Conversation with Joel Rosenberg

Has God abandoned Israel—or is the story of His chosen people far from over?

In this thought-provoking episode of The Greg Laurie Podcast, Pastor Greg Laurie sits down with best-selling author, Middle East expert, and Bible prophecy teacher Joel Rosenberg for an honest, often humorous deep-dive into one of the most hotly debated questions in Christianity: Have the Jews been replaced by the Church as God’s chosen people?

Together, Greg Laurie and Joel cut through centuries of theological debate, exploring “replacement theology,” the modern rebirth of Israel, and why understanding biblical prophecy is more relevant—and controversial—than ever. Drawing from real-world encounters with global leaders, first-hand stories from modern Israel, and fresh research into prophecy’s place in today’s world, this conversation reveals why the question of Israel matters for every believer.

You’ll discover:

• Why so many pastors shy away from prophecy—and why Joel believes the Church can’t afford to ignore it.
• The explosive rise in Jewish believers in Jesus, and why this surge is reshaping what it means to be part of God’s family.
• How to share the Gospel with Jewish friends in a way that’s loving, respectful, and rooted in Scripture—not centuries-old stereotypes.

Whether you’re wrestling with big questions about God’s promises, fascinated by the intersection of current events and biblical prophecy, or simply seeking wisdom for sharing your faith cross-culturally, this episode offers clarity, encouragement, and practical insights.

Don’t miss this challenging—and hope-filled—conversation that will leave you rethinking what it means to be part of God’s unfolding story.

Subscribe for more conversations like this, exploring faith, culture, and the tough questions that shape our world.

Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Life Audio, Jesus came in as an Israeli. He came
as a Jew. Now he came to his own. His
own received him, not to those who did receive him. Gentiles,
you got it, And now you're making Jews jealous because
you know the God of Israel and most of our
team doesn't.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Joel Rosenberg, thank you for doing my podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Please would Greg great to be with you.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
You know, we.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Always go straight to the big topics of what's going
on in the world, But why don't we just start
by talking about your childhood a little bit, like who
were you? Like a smart little kid? He seemed to
me like you'd sit in the front of the class.
You'd always have the answers.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Was that you was?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Because I was in the back of the room creating
kids at the back of my walking people maybe like you,
I don't know, But.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Were you that kid?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
No? I was not that kid. I was a little
maybe a little doing a little bit better than average,
But I was not you know, the salutatorian, the valedictorian.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
That was not me.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Look, I'm one of the few Jews that was born
and raised in America, Greg, that did not get the
financial gene Okay, I'm not your stockbroker, not your CPA,
I'm not your accountant. But I didn't get the medical gene.
I'm not your doctor. I'm not your chiropractor. I'm not
you know, I don't own a movie company like I
didn't get any of the good Jewish jobs. And I'm
still a little bitter. But no, I was. I was

(01:37):
a creative kid.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I was.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
I was a bit of a class clown, but I
you know, I was interested in sports. Yeah, baseball and wrestling,
played a season football, but I was too little.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do you want to arm wrestle right now?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Arm wrestling wasn't one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
But I would only well, well, I would only ask
if I was sure I could win. Yeah, so, and
I'm not certain I would win, so I'm not going
to do it. I am wrestled Mill Gibson once. We
were doing in an interview at Angel Stadium, and I
just had this crazy addea, shit, I'm Ruslim, and I
think he would have won. I just stopped really quickly.

(02:14):
So you you were into sport.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
I was, and and I liked making people laugh.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I was, yeah, you are very witty, Joel.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Well, I try to keep up with you. I try
to keep you on your toes the best I can.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I like the way that you weave your humor because
you deal with some very weighty, heavy subjects, and I
think when you can bring humor in and and have
little moments of lightness, that actually helps listener, the viewer
to you know, take in all that information.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine. I've read
that somewhere exactly. When I was growing up, I really
did want to write for Saturday Night Live. I want
to write Carson. I didn't stand up, but I but
I that was an aspiration, and I realized the Lord
didn't think that was a good idea. I didn't. I
wasn't good enough for that. But I do think having

(03:04):
a sense of humor and it's a penning part of
a gift of encouragement when it's used in the spirit,
and I think the Lord has used that in a
mix of Bible teaching and Bible prophecy especially, You're right,
some of these things are very heavy and they're also odd,
you know, since most pastors don't I'm not a pastor,
but most pastors don't teach Bible prophecy. So when you're

(03:25):
speaking about it, you have to acknowledge, at least internally,
that people aren't entirely sure that they want to go
where you're talking them.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Let me just interrupt you for a moment. I want
to hear more about your childhood. But you said a
lot of pastors don't teach on Bible prophecy. That is
really true now. Thirty years ago, even fifty years ago,
and that Jesus movement was happening, it was common to
hear messages about the return of Christ and specifically about
the Rapture. Of course, the tough selling book of the

(03:58):
seventies was The Late Great Planet Earth. Then there was
the amazing success of the Left Behind books. But nowadays
it seems like it's rare to hear a sermon about
the end times from of the pulpit. Why do you
think that is well?

Speaker 1 (04:11):
I think that even though twenty seven percent of the
Bible is prophecy, you know the reason, why don't people
teach it? I don't think. I think a lot of
pastors don't understand it. They haven't studied it. A lot
of Bible colleges and seminaries aren't teaching it. Maybe there's
a class but you know, out of four years of
Bible college or seminary, that's not that much. It's complicated.

(04:32):
It takes extra time to prepare for it, and if
you don't have a context for it, that's a problem.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Some people just don't believe it. They think it's all
metaphor and algory.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
But even non believers today, I think, more than ever
are saying, wait, a second World War three, I'm going
to I heard this somewhere before. I'm wn' I heard
Christians talk about this. They hear words like armageddon thrown
about in mainstream discourse.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
And it seems to me.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
The President of the United States on World War three
and Biden spoke of armageddon.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
He did he used the actual word armageddon. We know
it's weird because there's actually a blessing attached to specifically
the study of Revelation. Blessed are they that read here
and keep the words of this book. The word blessing
promises God is going to bless you as you do it.
And I think what is true specifically of revelation is

(05:26):
true principally of the study of all prophecy. He gave
us these things. You know, it seems to me, God's
desire is not to conceal, but to reveal, because revelation
means the unveiling. So why should we not understand these things?
What would you say to maybe somebody who's a pastor
out there who is afraid to attack this topic, Like,

(05:49):
is there maybe a go to book? Like start with
this book apart from the Bible, of course, Like, start
with this book. It's a really good primer teaching end
times events. Maybe it's something you've written or something you're
aware of.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Sure, but I want to first say that I think
a lot of pastors if they maybe they have and
studied it, maybe they don't understand it, maybe they don't
believe it. But there's the other part, which is they
don't want to look like a lunatic. This is a
big problem because a lot of people who do teach
prophecy or are passionate about it, they seem like they're
from Roswell, New Mexico. They seem like they've built their

(06:21):
website at area fifty one. You know it's read flames
and everything is in capital letters and ninety seven exclamation points.
And people are like or their date setting and they're
eighty eight. You know you mentioned the other. And I
have a box actually of books like this eighty eight
Reasons Why Jesus Coming in eighty eight. I have the sequel,
which was the eighty nine Reasons Why He's Actually Coming
in eighty nine. Both sold millions. I had a book

(06:44):
called called nineteen ninety five I think it was or
ninety four, maybe it was ninety five. I think, you know,
a five hundred page book about why it's going to
come on, the Jesus coming on this exact time. So
all of that helps discredit the whole concept of prophecy.
And so I think a lot of pastors are like,
I don't want to go there. So where would I start.

(07:04):
There's a great book call The End by a wonderful
Shot Marsh exactly. He's a Dallas theological seminary, uh professor
or a social professor.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Mark's a friend of mine, and and I know that book,
and and he's a really good source to go to.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
I agree he is.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
And and I think that, uh, he's solid, he's calm,
he drinks decalf. I think I mean he's you know,
he's not like you know, you know, and which is
again that feeling of you deal with people who were
interested in prophecy, and some of them they just don't
seem balanced. H it's because they're not so that that
that is a real I would say it's lame and

(07:44):
accessible this book the end, but it's but it's written
by a true scholar, and he's a pastor, so he's
also thinking, how do I take the academic and actually
teach it and make it accessible for other pastors.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well, isn't that the goal of all preaching to take
those things that are maybe hard to understand and make
them understandable.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
It is absolutely, But I would you reference late Great
Planet Earth that's sold more than ten million copies. There
was something very positive about it because it helped people
connect what was happening in the world at that time
in early seventies with what a lot of prophecy says. However,
it did overreach, and so while many people came to

(08:24):
faith in Christ because of that book, thinking Wow, the
Bible is real, it's relevant. It's telling me what's happening
right now, I get I ought to follow Jesus. On
the other hand, there were people who struggled with their faith.
Faith I don't know. I've never personally met someone who
lost their faith but because of it, but he extrapolated
into some things that seemed obvious to him. It just

(08:46):
turned out to be wrong. So over time it had
it had two effects, to draw people to the Bible
and to prophecy and to the Lord. But for others
like no, that's he's wrong. Therefore I'm not listening to
any of it, and that's a risk.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
I don't think there's anything wrong with Like I told
you Rea, you know, I try to teach Bible prophecy
in a way that ten years from now, if someone
listens to this message, I won't be.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Embarrassed by it.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
So I think we can offer our ideas and our
interpretations and our theories. Like we might say, well, okay,
from my understanding of scripture, and we would both agree
with this. We believe that Magog is Russian. Okay, But
you know that is not an essential doctrine of the
Christian faith. But it is an interpretation based on many sources,

(09:34):
many things that can support it. But it's okey to
say now I think this. Now it may be different,
But here's what we do know. A large force from
the north of Israel will attack her, and this will
be a sign of the end time. So we can
say that was certainty, but give ourselves a little wiggle
room and maybe something will happen geopolitically or around the
world that will change a little. And we have seen

(09:56):
some surprising things happen in even recent days. Every years ago,
you know, the Bible talks about the ten nations united
under Antichrist. Many thought that was what was called the
common market, but now we see it a little bit differently.
So that's okay, give yourself some room to interpret. But
then we want to stand strong on the essentials, which

(10:19):
are Christ is coming back. He did tell us to watch,
he did tell us to be ready. Let's not miss
the points.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, and that's why we teach what the Bible actually says. Yes,
then we interpret it in light of scripture. Then we
can say my sense of it is that it could
mean this, but as long as we have to be
clear that this part is our sense. But let's make
sure people actually understand prophecy. That's another piece is some

(10:48):
people who get a little too hopped up on prophecy.
They're trying to persuade you, and I find that teaching
prophecy is not the same as the gospel, the Gospel.
I implore you to listen and to make a decision.
Today's the day of salvation, right, this is right in
your wheelhouse. With prophecy, I don't to persuade people. I
feel like, just teach it what it says, and teach

(11:13):
it how to understand it, interpret it in light of
other scripture that is critical. Then I can add, well,
this is where we're trending geopolitically, so therefore it could
mean this, It could mean that I would watch for this.
But as long as that part my own, my own personal,
not a biblical understanding of of of other context of

(11:33):
the scripture. As long as that's clear, that's so less important.
And yet I think for some prophecy teachers, they they
get an inflated sense of self that there's somehow supposed
to understand exactly what it means. Even the people who
wrote the prophecies in the scriptures did not understand exactly
what they were saying or when it was going to happen.
The scriptures tell us this, right, and they you know,

(11:56):
the New Testament tells us that Old Testament prophets long
to understand and to see the days that they were
writing about they didn't fully understand that. So this is
just a level of humility and caution that will help
the seeds of the scriptures that we teach the prophecies
be planted in as healthy an environment as possible, and

(12:17):
then if anything that we have said helps, great I
remember Tim Lahay, Doctor Tim Lahay was one of the
great Bible prophecy experts of the twentieth century.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
It was his idea to create the Left Behind novel
series sold sixty five million copies. And by the way,
I would distinguish even late great planet Earth. You were
in environment gray as you came to faith, and you
were an environment where people were teaching prophecy. But the
Roman Catholic Church doesn't teach it. Much of the reform
theological movement doesn't teach most of it, and so it's

(12:48):
a pretty relatively narrow in the grand scheme of all
of you two and a half billion Christians of pastors
that are teaching it. So you happen to be swimming
in an environment where it was very much alive and
it very much helped your faith. But all that to say,
I remember getting to know doctor tim Lahay wife was
working for his wife and yeah, Beverly, and so my

(13:09):
wife was running their annual Christian women's conventions, I concern
Women for America. So we would move in like for
a week before this convention as Lynn had to do
all this work, and I just got to, you know,
hang out in the hotel. And Tim, Hey, he didn't
have anything.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
To do either.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
He was just there to support his wife. So we
got to hang out. That's the first person I ever
knew that taught about prophecy, and it happened to be
one of the world's are arguably the world's expert. Now
he was trying to explain to me, not persuade me,
but explain to me. This is nineteen ninety two, ninety three,
those few years he was trying to explain to me

(13:44):
Gog and Maggog. He was trying to say that Russia
will become the major threat to Israel, form an alliance
with Iran and the other countries, and I come against Israel.
In the last days. He gave me a copy of
a paperback book that he written years before, and I'm
thinking to myself, I mean, I don't say it, but
inside I'm feeling a little snarky. Well, you're the big
expert on Bible, obviously, but have you read the newspaper, Tim,

(14:08):
You know doctor Lelay is what I call him. But
you know the Soviet Union is falling apart, a million
Jews are coming out. You're trying to tell me that
Russia and Iran are going to form some alliance and
be a hostile actor towards Israel. You have any idea
what's happening in the real world. But he wasn't. Yes,
he did understand the real world, but he didn't try
to persuade me. He just taught me and he gave

(14:30):
me a book. Well, ten years later, I'm working for
Natan Sharansky, who had just finished being the Deputy Prime
Minister of Israel, and he's telling me a story. We're
on a flight from Washington, New York City, and he's
telling me a story, just as I'm working for him
as a media advisor. He says, yeah, a couple of
years ago, Joel. And by the way, just for your

(14:50):
audience that may not know not. Tan Sharansky was born
and raised in the Soviet Union Jewish, a real hero
of human rights for Jews and for others, but was
put in the Gulag the prisons of the KGB for
nine years for being a jewis Ish human rights tactivists.
So he gets released. Eventually he becomes the Deputy Prime
Minister of Visual and now I'm sitting with him, amazing,

(15:13):
my family escaped out of Russia. So I considered him
a great hero, as do most Jews. So he's telling me, yeah,
a couple of years ago, Joel I won't do his accent.
Prime mister net and Yahoo sent me to Moscow. He says,
not done. I want you to go to go to Moscow.
And Transky was like, I don't want to go to Moscow.
Did Moscow? Don't want to go back? No, no, no,

(15:33):
you're the right guy. I want you to go meet
with this guy named Vladimir Putin. Wowansky's like what yeah, yeah,
he's the new head of the KGB, they call it
the FSB. I want you to talk to him and
give him this file and show him that we know
that the Russians are selling nuclear technology to Iran. I'm
fear this was two thousand, wow, the summer of two thousand,

(15:54):
so this is about eight years after getting to know
Tim Lahey. And so I'm listening to a man who
was sent by the Prime Minister visual to the to
me a Putin who was not the who was just
becoming the president of Russia, but in the in the story,
he's only the head of you know, the new KGB.

(16:15):
And and Shransky's explaining to me how net Nyaho was
worried that Russia, the Russian Iranian alliance is emerging and
it's going to become one of the most dangerous threats
to Israel. And I don't say it to Shransky because
it's not my place, but I'm thinking this is what
Tim Lahay was talking about. So as soon as I
finished that assignment, I go home and I'm like, honey,

(16:36):
where's that book? Like I think you put it in
the garage and I'm like, you know, And I finally
find this old out of print book by Tim Lahay
and I read it and I'm like, all right, he
was onto something because he was just studying the scriptures.
He wasn't he wasn't dating what he was telling me
by the current moment. He's just saying this is going
to happen at some point. And that began to teach

(16:59):
me several things. One he was right about more than
I realized I was a young whipper snapper and I
thought my new stuff and I didn't. But more importantly,
just teach it. Yeah, drop it as a seed. It
may be, it may be in snarky, cynical soil, but
God can bring it to life in the future. And

(17:21):
that's an important principle on Bible prophecy. It's not the
same as the Gospel, and we just have to be
committed to teaching it without trying to necessarily persuade people
right on the prophet So.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Let's go back to what doctor Lahay was writing about
and what turned out to be true in real time.
This alliance with Russia and Iran was in nineteen thirty five,
Persia changed their name to Iran. Right, Okay, So Persia
is one of the allies that marches with may Goog.

(17:55):
So if may Gog is Russia, and we believe it is,
this is the Bible is prophesign an alliance that did
not happen until how many years later.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
It basically starts in the early nineteen nineties, right about
the time that Tim Hey is Doctoray is telling me this. Why, well,
because what happened is when the Soviet Union imploded and
it ended, and it was just now Russia. It wasn't
the Soviet Union anymore, the Soviet Empire and the million
Jews left. In the years that followed, the Russian leadership thought,

(18:28):
we got a problem. We have weapons, but we have
no money. Right, We're a bankrupted country, but we have
all these weapons from the Cold War Iran. Iran's leadership thought,
we have a problem. We've just fought an eight year
war with the Rock. We have money, oil, money, but
we don't have any weapons. So they thought, who's got
weapons and needs money? The Russians. This was a match

(18:51):
made in hell that they two sides saw that they
needed each other, and the Russians were like, sure, buy
our weapons, that'd be fantastic. And this began around nineteen
ninety four ninety five. But when Vladimir Putin takes over
two thousand, he accelerates the relationship with Iran. At this moment,
I start thinking, I start I'm almost trembling with the

(19:15):
feeling of things are getting set into motion that I
learned about eight nine years ago I didn't believe now,
and this gets me into the idea of I should
write about this. And so after I helped Benjamin Netnya
who go Nowhere. I was in a junior advisor and
his comeback campaign in the fall of two thousand. He

(19:36):
didn't come back for nine more years. This was part
of my failed political consulting line.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Now it's the longest serving prime minister I believe in
the history of history.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Exactly, and I played absolutely no role. I was no
help at all and bless his heart. So anyway, that's
where I began to think about writing a series of novels,
because what I liked about the Tim Lahay model was
study the prophecies, and there's a wide range of ways
to teach.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Novels give you a way to say, this is not
exactly the way it's going to be. But what if
it gets you thinking with a different part of your brain.
Novels fire up your imagination and get you to think
emotionally and get think wow, wow, what if and you
just start chewing on it differently than if you read

(20:21):
an editorial in the newspaper or even a nonfiction book
on prophecies. So and you're going to reach a much
wider audience. We've sold five million copies of these books,
and again it's not sixty five million copies that they sold.
But we're in a season where there is much less
interest in prophecy than there was in the eighties and nineties, seventies,
eighties and nineties, but it's still important and so interest

(20:45):
or not, I just feel like this is part of
what I'm supposed to be doing. And whether it's podcasting,
whether it's preaching and teaching, or whether it's television on
TBN or novels, I'm looking for every possible way to
engage people that might be very skeptical.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Well, it's interesting to think about world readers because you've
met a lot of inflouid people. You mentioned that Ya who.
Of course you've become friends with former CIA director Mike Pompeo,
Vice President Pence on many others, And it's interesting to
think about a person in a position of authority believing

(21:22):
these things. You know, I met Marco Rubio ten years ago.
I was speaking at a couple's conference in Hawaii and
someone said, Marco Rubio is here and would like to
meet you, And I said, the Marco Rubio, Senator Marco Rubio. Yes,
So we met him and his wife, Jeanette. Beautiful couple.
Love the Lord love the Bible, and Marco had a

(21:44):
particular interest in the end Times, and so I had
written a commentary and revelation, and so he gathered a
bunch of his buddies who like to study the Bible,
and I'm going through revelation in End Times events with them.
And then now, look, Marco is the Secretary of State.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
It's amazing, you know.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
So that's an incredible thing.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
And let me just add just a small piece in there,
and then you continue with your thought, which is he
became interested in my novels. And when he was running
for president, he was actively The Associated Press actually snapped
a picture of him getting on a plane. He has
a stack of books he just bought, and one of
them was a book called The Twelfthy Mom that was
a political thriller about Iranian eschatology that they think some

(22:27):
savior is coming. And anyway, he and I end up
because of that. I reached out to him and we
ended up meeting several times, becoming friends and of friends.
I don't want to overstate it, but we got to
know each other and had similar conversations as well as
one of the future of America. You're right, though, but
when you meet people earlier in their careers and you

(22:49):
have no idea. But if God opens those doors and
you build a relationship and you can be somewhat helpful,
you hope on spiritual things, on biblical issues. You know.
That's how I met Pence and Mike and Karen was
they were readers of the novels. They weren't. He wasn't
the Vice president, yet he never even imagined it. Mike
Pompeo was a member of the House of Representatives, but

(23:10):
he wasn't the CIA director, he wasn't the Secretary of State.
So yeah, God sometimes opens crazy you know.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Coming back to net Yahu, I've heard him give speeches
or he alludes to Ezekiel thirty seven and the return
of the Jews to their homeland. So it seemed to
me listening to this that he believed this was a
prophecy that has been fulfilled. Modern Israel is a fulfillment
of that prophecy of the Jews attorney to their land
and a sign of the last days. But does he

(23:40):
believe the rest of what Ezekiel says? Well, you wonder
if net Yak who look at make ag and think
could this be Russia? You know, does a bad accent
or imitation that you could probably do net Yahu.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
No, I can. He doesn't have a I don't know
anyone who who does a good impression of him.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
No, he well, he has great commanded the English language.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Does he went to school yeah, here.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
In the nineteenth But I wonder have you ever had
a discussion with him about that or heard him talk
about a prophecy in the future of Israel.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
No, we've only spoken about what he's also spoken about publicly,
which is his belief that Ezekiel thirty seven, the value
of the dry bones, is what happened. That he actually
spoke at Auschwitz on one of the I think the
sixtieth or sixty of Auschwitz, in which he said there
this was the value of dry bones, I'm paraphrasing. And

(24:32):
out of this, when we thought we were dead and
buried as a people, out of this, the state of
Israel was reborn. I haven't actually ever talked to him
about the Ezekiel thirty eight thirty nine. You know, Sharansky
has read several of my books, including a novel called
The Ezekiel Option, and I told him this came came out.

(24:54):
You know, I'm not saying he believes it. I'm just
saying I told him that when I gave it to him.
This is this came out of our conversation. I'm not
sure if you're aware of this, but there are prophecies
that say Russia and Iran is going to form this alliance,
and you gave me the idea in part. So again,
I think we just keep teaching to those who have

(25:15):
ears to hear it, and even if they don't have
ears to hear, you still share it when you can.
I think I think God put me in Washington, d C.
For twenty four years before going to Israel and not
in the Bible Belt. I was learning to study prophecy
and explain prophecy and starting to teach prophecy and write
about prophecy in Washington, d C. The most cynical city

(25:39):
in America, right, And so you cannot assume something that
if you're a preacher in East Texas, you know they're
all gonna get what you're saying because we've been teaching
it since you were four years Well you're trying, you know,
not that good, you know, But if you go down
like Tyler, Texas, you can't say Tyler I've been there.

(26:02):
I've taught a lot of times. It was like it's
Tiler textas Joel people. I was just an Amarilla. It's
not Amarillo, it's Amarilla. And they gave me boots. I
think there's snake skin boots. I had never worn a boot.
You should. They gave me a beautiful pair. And to
a Yankee for crying out out so I thought, wow,
God bless you. But the point is when you speak

(26:26):
in an environment where everybody believes you, you you talk different.
And when you live and you're trying to explain prophecy
in the most cynical, hostile city toxicity in America, you
have to think differently and you have to explain differently.
And I would explain just again in political context, when

(26:46):
you hear Ted Cruz talk about politics, who's a Texan
and as it comes from a very red state, he
talks differently than Marco Rubio, who comes from Florida, which
was for a long time a purple states. It's the
same philosophy, but it's different tone. You're you're trying to
appeal to people differently. Cruise is speaking to people who

(27:07):
believe him. Marco is talking to some people who believe him,
but a lot of people who don't or aren't sure.
And I think God took me down the prophecy school,
as it were, in a place where I had to
learn how to talk to people who were like, you
freaking got to be kidding me, There's no way. And
I think the Lord has created a different a different

(27:29):
tone in the way I talk about it. And also
humor became a big part of it, because if you
take yourself a little too seriously, people are going to
think you.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well. When we do our crusades, you know, I've done
crusades all around the United States, and my favorite places
are the more secular spots. We had a tremendous crusade
in New York City at Medicine Square Garden. We had
a really great one in Seattle, where I've heard there
are more dogs than Christians and so but I remember.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
The pente more coffee companies than.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
More lots of coffee. But the percent of response was
way higher in Seattle than it was when I did
a harvest cruise state in Georgia or in some of
the Southern states. I love those people, and but you know,
there's this there can be a jaded this where they
I've read this from my childhood. But when you're talking
to a completely secular person and you know, I wasn't

(28:25):
raising the church, and.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
So I think that helps you. Yeah, I mean God
created a testimony that you this wasn't all embedded in
this is the way it's said, this is the way
it's done. No, you You that was quite a road
and you had a hard life and when you came
to it, you're like, Okay, how do I appeal to
people like me?

Speaker 3 (28:42):
That's right exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I grew up in the Northeast, as I said, the
New York New Jersey thing. No, you're not getting any
cultural points for being a follower of Jesus in Texas.
You would, in Georgia, you would, in Mississippi you would,
but you do not get any There's no uh, there's
no benefits to your life, your business, your your your
your personality, or your your your social identity in the

(29:04):
in the unity by being a devout follow of Jesus.
Just the opposite. So you have to learn how to
operate in a place where everybody either hates you or
at least a skeptical of you.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, you know, I remember hearing I met that Yahouh
in Israel is funny because as with the bunch of pastors,
and the guy who invited me said, I want you
to ask a question of the Prime Minister was very excited,
and that's very nervous.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
And so why were we nervous?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Because he's the Prime Minister of Israel and.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
You're an ambassador of Jesus.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I know, but I was nervous, Okay, can I say?

Speaker 3 (29:37):
So?

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I had that I don't know if I've heard I
think I'd.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Been teaching through Esther and so I had this kind
of esther thought in my mind, like you know, who
knows that God has not put you there for such
a time as this. And then I combined no, and
then the guy who asked me to ask the question
gave me a question. So I combined our two questions
and I asked him and he looked at me and said,
I don't understand what you're but you're asking me and

(30:01):
everyone started laughing. And so I was humiliated in front
of the Prime mini. But but I had a point
about that. Oh yeah, I've all. I heard him say
in that meeting that the greatest friend of Israel is
the evangelical Christian, and I think it's so important because
I'm not a Jewish, I'm a gentile. And when I
did my twenty three and media test, I was hoping,

(30:24):
is there some Jewish blood of me somewhere? And I
found out I'm hopelessly gentile. I am like I am
white trash, I'm just well, no, I'm.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Scottish and Irish.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
But I was taught and Chuck Smith was my pastor,
and Chuck Smith loved the Jewish people. Chuck Smith loved Israel.
He took this to Israel, and a whole generation of
young preachers picked that up from him. And now these
are our convictions that we've adopted us for ourselves. You know,
I think it's so important for us to build bridges

(30:57):
to the Jewish community.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
After October seventh, I was asked to speak at the
Museum of Tolerance in Last Angeles to an exclusively Jewish audience.
And I was honored and a little intimidated. I like,
what do I say? So I wrote a little talk
and I just said to these people, you know, what
a tragedy was, how sorry we were. But here's what

(31:21):
amazed me. The rabbi who introduced me said to this
group gathered, he said, this man referring to me has
done more for our people in Israel than most.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Of you here.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
And I was kind of shocked that he said that,
because I didn't know that he knew much about me
or what I've done or said. But what we did
was we just told the folks there that we love them.
But I thought, I'm not going to hide my testimony,
and I said, you know, my love for the Jewish
people came after I came into a relationship with Jesus Christ.
I was a confused kid going the wrong way in life.

(31:55):
I heard about Jesus. I began to read the Bible,
learn your history. That's where my love came for you
and for the book that came through you, et cetera.
And after I was done speaking, a number of them said,
why don't you come on our team? So I saw
that as a compliment, but I thought it was really
important for us to go and in a tangible way

(32:17):
say we care about you. One thing our church has
done is we just purchased a bulletproof ambulance for Israel.
We did this with Samaritan spirits. That's giving quite a
few of them at the request of Israel, and we're
giving this ambulance to them in the name of Jesus Christ.
You know these are This is from your Christian friends
in America at a harvest. But I see that that

(32:40):
there's something called replacement theology that has gained some prominence
in the church, where this is not what is being taught.
We're told that Israel is not in the land. Is
a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, and there is no emphasis
on the importance of us building bridges to the Jewish people,
loving them, reaching them with the gospel themes that you

(33:02):
talk about often, maybe just plain replacement theology and why
Christians should love Jewish people.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Sure, let's start with how much time did you say
you had, because that's the quiet a question. All right,
here's the short version. Then you can pull on the
threads if you'd like. Let's start with replacement theology at
the simplest level. That means pastors, theologians, others who believe
that the Church has replaced Israel in God's plan and

(33:36):
purpose for the world. That's not true. But there's a
dual track. Of course, the church is the central thing
that God is doing in this world. Since the Messianic
Age began, not the Millennial Kingdom, but the Messy Age
when Jesus came, died, rose again. Of course, the Church
is what he's building in this world. But there are

(33:58):
prophecies that go back to the Book of Genesis, the
first book of the Bible, that says God is raising
up the nation of Israel, and the Christians are told
by Paul in the one of the letters to Corinthians,
look to Israel. Learn from Israel, both the good and
the bad, and in the mistakes we've made. But God
is raising up Israel in these last days, as the

(34:18):
prophet said he would. So there's really two God has
two things going on simultaneously. Now. The reason people who
are replacement theologians who believe that God is done with Israel,
He's done with the Jewish people. He's only focused on
the Church. The reason they say that is because, well,
you Jews. Jesus was Jewish. Sure he came to Israel,

(34:40):
but you rejected him. Therefore he's rejecting you. Well, on
a simple basis, if a person doesn't think it through,
they would say, oh, well, I guess that would make sense.
If the Jewish people reject their messiah. He's going to
reject them. Didn't he punish them? Yes he did. Didn't
he kick us all out of the land, Yes he did.
Didn't he destroy our temple well through the Romans, as

(35:02):
Jesus said would happen. But that's not the same as
rejecting the Jewish people forever. The reason we know that
God didn't reject the Jewish people forever is because the
apostle Paul existed. Paul came to faith, he was sauld
that he comes to faith in Jesus. After the death
of Jesus, Jews hand Jesus over to the Romans, after

(35:24):
the Romans crucified Jesus, but also after Jesus has resurrected.
If God rejected the Jews forever at the crucifixion, because
the Jews had rejected the Messiah and turned them over
to rome to cruise by him, then no Jewish person
would have ever gotten saved from that point forward, because
God would be done with us. But that is entirely

(35:45):
not true, starting with you, not starting with the possible.
The disciples, all the disciples were Jewish, and all of
them believed he was a Messiah, but they didn't believe
he was God until the resurrection. And in John twenty
we see when they actually become full born again believers
because Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into them. They're following him,

(36:06):
but they don't fully get it. They think he's a
political messiah, not God himself until the resurrection. So first
of all, how did those guys get saved? But you say, ah, wow,
that's different. Well, Saul was a persecutor of the church,
he was a Jewish leader.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
At the highest levels.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
He gets saved, and then most of us either got
saved or grew in our faith because of him, and
then a million Jews today believe in Jesus. So what
we're seeing is that God has not done with us spiritually.
But the rebirth of Israel nineteen forty eight is evidence
that the prophecies of Ezekiel thirty six, of Ezekiel thirty seven,
of Isaiah, of Jeremiah, of Daniel, all of these are

(36:47):
coming to pass in our lifetime. So I would say
I'm somewhat sympathetic to Christians from seventy a d. To
the early nineteen hundreds, of the mid nineteen hundreds, who,
like I don't really know if those prophecies about the
rebirth of Israel and all Israel getting saved. That seems
so unlikely that that must be metaphor it must be

(37:11):
an analogy. It can't really be literally true, because I
get it. A thousand years ago they didn't see any
evidence of this. Five hundred years ago, they didn't see
anything of them. But it's really hard. In the last
one hundred years and you've got a million Jews coming
to faith, that's just the last fifties, and then the
literal state of Israel being reborn, replacement theology has been

(37:32):
disproven one hundred percent. Now there's another piece here, which
is people who are what I would say are soft replacement.
They don't mean God hates the Jews. They don't mean
that God is done with the Jews spiritually or even
in terms of national Israel. But they'll tell me, but
current Israel has nothing to do with Bible prophecy. It's
not part of the prophetic reveal. One of the people

(37:55):
that I've had this conversation with is a person who
I greatly admire, and this is John Piper. Now John Piper,
he believes in Jewish evangelism, in the national rebirth of
Israel at some point. But I had the dinner dinner
with him a few years ago and his wife and
some of his senior colleagues at the Bible College and

(38:15):
seminary that he found in Minnesota, And I said, so, John,
if I understand you correctly, you love the Jews, you
stand with the Jews, you believe in Jewish evangelism, and
you believe in the future of national Israel, that Israel
will be prophetically reborn. But if I understand correctly from
reading all your stuff, you don't believe that current Israel
has anything to do with Bible prophecy. He said, that's correct.

(38:38):
He said, so you're the ultimate sovereignty guy. That's a
big passionate point that you make God a sovereign. I
agree with you. But you think that for nineteen hundred
plus years Israel, the Jews were out of the land,
and then we just sort of got back after almost
two thousand years without God's sovereignty.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
He said, no, no, no, no, on the heels of the Holocaust, right.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Right, I mean we were almost dead and buried. No, no, no,
of course that was God's sovereign acts. It's okay, so
sovereign act but it's not connected to Bible prophecy that
said we would come back, that said we rebuild the country. Well,
I just think there's not any proof of that. And
I said, but why do you And he said, I'll
tell you very clearly and simply why. The Mosaic law,

(39:21):
the law Moses says if the Jewish people chronically reject
and resist God and his word, he's going to kick
us out of the land, or kick you out of
the land. He said, but if they repent, if you
repent as a nation, he'll bring you back. So the
nation of Israel is not yet repentant, and therefore it
cannot be anything connected to prophecy. He said, Ah, that's

(39:43):
a great point, John, You're absolutely right. That is what
the law of Moses says. He said, Well, there you go.
I said, okay, okay, not there I go. What's the
purpose of the law. The purpose of the law is
to prove to us we can't do it.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
So under the law of Moses, we are guilty.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
As Jews.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
We should not we don't have a right to go
back to Israel. But we're back in Israel. Why are
we back in Israel if we don't have a right
to go there, and we weren't there for more than
nineteen hundred years. I said, the reason is because of
the prophets. God said to the prophets, even though you
don't have a right to go back, I will bring
you back. I will bring you back. I will plant you,
I will help you rebuild the ancient ruins. I will

(40:21):
make the desert bloom. I will, I will, I will.
That's God sovereignly saying, even though you don't have the
right to do it, even though you won't be repentant,
I have a plan for you, and I will do it,
and then you will know. This is the language always
of Ezekiel, especially I will do this, and then you
will know that I am the Lord. I said. Now,
look what's happened. Jews are coming to faith after after

(40:43):
the rebirth of monerstanies Suld.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Tell me you've said this before, but how many Jews
believe in Jesus in the native I mean, I know
you can't pinpoint it to an exact number, but I
know there's been a dramatic increase of those that you know,
we're maybe forty years ago.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
So I was born in sixty seven so that's almost
fifty eight years ago. And at that point the best
j Wish missiologists would say is there were maybe two
thousand Jewish people on planet Earth who believed that Jesus
is the Messiah, that he is God in nineteen sixty seven. Today,
based on research we've done with the Southern Baptist Research

(41:19):
arm Our Ministry, the Joshua and others help fund research
to say, we just want to know, just in America alone,
how many people who are even joical flowers of Jesus
have a Jewish heritage ethnic heritage. And it turns out
it's eight hundred and seventy one thousand. Wow, so it's
almost nine hundred thousand. Then you add about thirty thousand

(41:40):
Jews in Israel who believe in Jesus, and then people
in Brazil and Europe and elsewhere. So worried about a million.
So we've gone from two thousand to a million in
the last sixty years or so. This is dramatic. So
back to the conversation with John Piper, I said, so
John now Ezekiel thirty seven specifically says, I will bring

(42:02):
you back the value of the dry bones, and then
I will pour out my spirit, and then you will
know that I said. Now, let me give you two
examples that show that this has happened in the past.
First is the exodus out of Egypt. So God brings
the Jewish people, the nation of Israel, out of Egypt supernaturally.
But how many of them were repentant? Almost none, I

(42:22):
mean Caleb and Joshua, yes, But the entire older generation
dies in the wilderness in unrepentant. So when does the
nation repent? We can see it in the Book of Joshua.
When God supernaturally parts not the Red Sea in this case,
but in the Jordan River. The nation Visium goes into
the land, and once they're in the land in sight

(42:46):
of Jericho, their main enemy, they suddenly realize, we haven't
circumcised ourselves. We haven't circumcised our children. That's the central
part of the Moses Covenant. So they circumcise themselves. That's repentance,
that's real repentance. It's also crazy to do it when
you're in enemy territory, when you're in the site, if
you're going to be why don't you do that on

(43:06):
the side on the other side of a big river
that takes you know, I said, you can see national repentance,
and they are already in the land. But let me
give you a better example. When the Babylonian exile. Now
the Babylonian Jews are now in Persia, but King Cyrus
sends them all back with money, with political support, with
military help. They come back. We read it in the

(43:27):
book of Ezra and the Amiah. In they Amiah, we
literally read the nation is back, the walls are built,
and Ezra's reading the word of God, the law to
the people, and the priests are explaining what everyone says,
what the meaning of the word, and people start to weep.
They are repenting. Where are they in exile? No, they're

(43:48):
back in the land. I said, this is what Ezekiel's
speaking of. So you're John, You're right that we don't
have we as you don't have a right to come
back because we're not nationally repentant. But what the prophets
tell us is that God will bring us back anyway,
and then he will help us understand the grace that

(44:08):
he's showing us as he pours out his spirit. And
then and the rebirth of Israel will be asential component
of even Jews who don't yet believe in Jesus, at
least believing. Oh there's a God, he has done this
for us. That's a long explanation. I appreciate you let
me at least share it, but I but my point
is we're at a time where we really have to help.

(44:30):
There's a lot there's a lot more pastors and people
who who believe what John believes, not what you and
I believe. And we've got to find ways to engage.
Even within the Southern Baptist movement, even within the Calvary movement,
there are there are voices that just don't quite get this. Okay,
let's not be mad at them. Let's let's start explaining

(44:54):
what this is. And those Christians who do love Israel
and do stand with Israel good, But let's not forget that. Ultimately,
the way to bless Israel is to make sure every
Jew who has at least heard the Gospel, because it
does us as a team no good to have political
and moral and financial support from the Christian community. If

(45:17):
we end up going to hell because nobody taught us.
Oh Jesus, this Jesus that is motivating us to love you,
he actually is your Messiah.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Well, like Paul says, you know, I'm not ashamed of
the Gospel of Christ. It's the power of God too.
Everyone who believes to the Jew first, also to the gentile.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
So but there are pastors and people and theologians who
are ashamed of the Gospel when it comes to Jews.
They somehow think, I don't want to offend you. They
have no problem telling an African or a Chinese person
or Brazilian Jesus is the only way of salvation. To
a Jew, I don't really want to go there, sir,
But that's because of Christian Jewish history.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
And that's but one of the things I encourage people
to do is go to Israel. See it for yourself.
See the land and one of the places you need
to visit. It is not just a garden tomb, not
just gsemine, not just the amount of olives. Go to
Yad Vashem and understand the history of the Jewish people.
You see how anti Semitism it's so parallel to today,

(46:18):
starting with the caricatures, starting with the you know, the
effect on the businesses where they would force the Jewish
people to wear the little star armband. Then they put
him in a ghetto then they routed them from the
ghettos to the concentration camps, and they had no idea
what was happening there. And it was a process that

(46:39):
the Nazis engaged.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
And then the Nazi soldiers in Auschwitz, for example, are
murdering Jews six days a week, putting them in ovens,
and then they're going to church and singing hymns on Sunday.
No Jew could imagine that the New Testament wasn't a
handbook of anti Semitism and extermination. But this is how
the devil has worked to keep my people, the Jewish people,

(47:03):
from the great hope that we could ever have, which
is our own messiahs Jesus.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Who is Jesus.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Let's say you're an unbelieving Jew, and let's say I
sit down and we're having a cup of coffee, and
I want to reach you with the Gospel. I'm a
gentile Christian, but but I want to share Jesus with you.
Is there something I would do differently with you than
I would do with just well, just say, a garden
variety nonbeliever.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Is there something specific.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I should be aware of, like with you, as a
Jewish person, with the history of persecution tragically done in
the name of the church. And you know, we know
that was a misrepresentation of the gospel, but we can't
argue with history. So is what what do I need
to know when I'm approaching you with the gospel?

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, I think there's there's there's one question you have
to ask first. Do you already have a relationship with me?
Are we already friends or are you meeting me for
the first time. At a certain level, it doesn't matter,
but Jews tend to need to know that you love me,
that you're standing with me. That helps a lot because
we're very alone in this world right now, especially post

(48:12):
October seventh, and we feel very much endangered, and we
also have we are suspicious of Christians that they're coming
after our souls. They don't really care about us as
people that were just some sort of project a target
for this and that's a problem. But the more that
Christians are you know, you specifically, but Christians in generally

(48:33):
are showing the love of Jesus, then we are much
more open to listening to what do you why? Why
why do the people who love Jesus love me? So
let's take that as an example. So one thing. But
even if you just met somebody and you said hey,
you know, like in your case, you'd be like, oh,
you're Greg Laurie, you're an evangelist. I don't believe what
you believe. But but I'm you know, I'm a little

(48:55):
bit curious, like why I would I would pull up
my phone and I would say, can I just read
you one passage of scripture and just tell me who
this is? Who who am I describing? And I would
read from Isaiah fifty three and I would say, well,
who do you think that is? And they will almost
always say, well, obviously that's Jesus, but I don't believe

(49:16):
in the New Testament. Well that's not the New Testament. Well,
obviously it is. Well, no, this is Isaiah, this is
your Hebrew. Probably no, no, give me that because it's
so obviously Jesus. But most Jews have never heard of
Isaiah fifty three.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah, that's a text. Philip hws to reach the Theopian Unitch.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, the book and the Ethiopian that he was like
the Treasury secretary and he was on the road to Gaza,
the one positive mentioned of Gaza in the entire book
of the Bible. But that guy is actually reading it himself,
and he's like, I'm not figuring it. I'm not getting this.
But of course he didn't know the story of Jesus.
It was so fresh. Now most Jews have never read

(49:58):
the New Testament, but they've never read the Old Testament either,
most Jews and so but if you read, uh, you
know Isaiah fifty three was just all about the torture
and isolation and ridicule and death of the Messiah. They
I can't tell you how many Jews we know who goes.

(50:20):
I don't want to. I'm not interested in the New Testament.
I'm not interested in talking about Jesus. You're like, well,
are we talking about Jesus? Well, obviously, really obviously, because
because actually it's not. I mean, it is Jesus. You're right,
but this is your prophecies. That is one of the
interesting ways, just because just getting.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
That right that those are you read, well, they pierced
my hands on my feet.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Yeah, where do you think that came from?

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Exactly? Well, So one of the things I say is
I don't have my phone with me but right now,
but Bible prophecy is like a phone number and Messianic
prophecy in particular, So Messianic prophecy is guiding us to
eliminate options of who the Messiah could be and guidance
this one particular person. And this is similar to a phone.

(51:08):
If you if you pick up your phone, and so
I have an American phone which is based in northern Virginia.
So it starts with one seven zero three. So if
you or your audience starts dialing one seven zero three,
what are the computers doing? Well, now they've decided that
the entire world isn't where Joel is. Joel's phone is,

(51:28):
the entire United States is not where Joel is. We
are now in the state of Virginia, and we're not
just in most of Virginia. We're in northern Virginia. Just
four numbers and you already have northern Virginia. Now every
number the computer. What are the computer doing. It's eliminating options.
When you get to number ten, well eleven, but you
you you get me. Now you won't get me. You'll

(51:48):
get my voicemail. But the just the beginning of it,
just the seven oh three. But that's a miracle in
a world of seven and a half billion people, How
can you find one person's number. The same thing is
true with the profits in the Messianic profits. So let's
just let's take our extra sketch for a second. Clean
the board. Yes, let's start with Isaiah and nine. I
would sit with a Jewish person as I have, and

(52:09):
I say, okay, let's look at Isaiah and nine. This says,
first of all, the people living in great darkness, they're
going to see a great light. Okay, So God is
gonna appear to them in some way, right, right, And
where's that going to happen. Oh, it's gonna happen in
the galley. Okay. Interesting. So now, for unto us, a
child is born. Now this is a very famous I
would say to you, if you're a Jewish, I would say,

(52:30):
this is a very famous Messianic prophecy. But it's saying
a child is coming.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Now that means we're not looking for an angel. We're
not looking for a ghost, we're not looking for a
vision in the sky. We're actually looking for a human
being to come. Now, for unto us, a child is born,
a sun is given. Okay, now we are so we're
eliminating ghosts, we're eliminating angels, we're eliminating spiritual visions. We're
talking about a human being. Now, we're eliminating women as

(52:56):
the Messiah. Right now we're down to men. Okay, well
half the population is fair enough. Now let's keep going.
His name is going to be wonderful counselor principiece, but
it's gonna be also el Giboor, Mighty God. This child,
this human being is going to be called Mighty God.
That's weird, right, It doesn't explain it right then, But

(53:18):
we're looking for somebody who is gonna be spending time
in the galley, who's a human being who comes as
some dramatic baby being born, but also is gonna be
called by a lot of people God. Right, let's just
set that one aside for a second. Okay, Now, let's
go to Micah chapter five. Micah five. Let's read that.
We read that, we say, okay, oh, he's actually be

(53:40):
born Henna. He's gonna serve and minister and live in
the gallerley. But he's actually be born in a very
specific place, Bethlehem, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. But you know, there are
dozens of Bethlehems in America, hundreds in the world. No Bethlehem,
uh Efrata in Judea. That's a very specific place. And
by the way, it's a very little town, so you.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Be little among the thousands of Judah.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yes, so I said, this is David's hometown. Now that's
a very little place. So's all right. So now we
know he's gonna be born in the specific Bethlehem as
a human, as a boy, and he's gonna be called God.
Let's just set that out a cider. Let's go to
Daniel nine. Daniel nine says that forgiveness is coming, atonement

(54:22):
for our sins is coming, everlasting life is coming. But
it says the anointed One, the Messiah, is gonna be
cut off. Yes, what does that mean, Well, it doesn't
exactly say, but it does say this is gonna happen
before the Temple is destroyed and Jerusalem is destroyed. Now
let's just stop there. We haven't done a ten month study,

(54:44):
we haven't done a seminary degree on prophety. We're just
saying these are our basic fact. These are the numbers
we're putting into the phone. Now. I said, now I'll
say to somebody, let's just take some guesses what that's saying.
Is if the Messiah from Bethlehem hasn't come before Jerusalem
is destroyed and the Temple is destroyed in seventy eight,

(55:05):
he's not coming. It has to be before. That's what Daniel,
your prophet, that's what he says. Now, let's remember that Israel,
you guys gave away Bethlehem to the palaces. There's no
Jews being born in Bethlehem anymore. So if he's if
he didn't come, he's not coming. Now, let's just let's

(55:27):
just spit ball here. Let's just play an association game.
Can you think of anyone that maybe I don't know,
two and a half billion people in the world, says hey,
he was this guy. This one person was born in Bethlehem,
he lived in Galley and people call him God. Just
you spin it out if you can think of it.
Just just just give me just listening. Let's think of it.
Let's create a list of options. Oh no, no, there's

(55:49):
only one option. You don't have to believe it. But
this is what the phone numbers lead. This is the
phone numbers are leading you. These just propherties that we
there are three hundred of them, but we're just talking
about a few where is that leeting. Just consider for
the possibility maybe they were buys are wrong. Maybe maybe

(56:10):
it's Jesus. Let's just consider that for a moment, and
why don't we spend a little time reading about the
life of Jesus. That is actually not a terrible way
to have a conversation.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
So if you have a pre existing relationship, it's good
if they know you love them, you care.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
That's one of the most important things.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
And that's true of all evangels.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
And I have to say in general, people don't care
how much you know unless they know how much you care.
You know, so that's really important, but especially with a
Jewish friend, you know, to let them know we care
about you, we care about your people, your plight, what
you're going through, and then showing them through Old Testament scriptures.
Every verse you've quoted is an Old test work.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
We did not get to Marthew, we did not get
to Mark, we did not get to Loot, we did
not get to John. We kept it on Jewish turf,
and we just now most of them have not read
these things. I once had this conversation in my own home.
We had a Christmas party in Israel when we first
moved there. When we asked our Jewish Israeli believing friends,
a Christmas party is bad? Are that? Is that gonna

(57:10):
be offensive? Because we like Christmas, but the Bible doesn't
teach us that we have to celebrate with the tree
and the lights and movements. They said no, actually, uh,
you know, Israelis have seen home alone. They're kind of
they're kind of curious. They've never celebrated Christmas. But if
you had a Christmas party, and we do it with
a white elephant gift exchange, we do it with a

(57:30):
little an actual competition to design your Christmas cookies. If
you've inviting people over, and then you know, just before
the white elephant gift exchange, which is really why they'll
be there, you had somebody in Hebrew read a little
bit of Luke sorry, Isaiah and nine and Micah five

(57:51):
and then maybe Luke too, just to kind of and
you said, this is why we believe what we believe.
But okay, just so we did that. This one guy
gets up and he goes after this whole evening he
gets he's in my face, like a classic Israeli Jew.
He's like, are you telling me? Are you telling me?
Are you saying that the Messiah, our Messiah has to

(58:13):
be born in Bethlehem. Is that what you're saying. I said, No,
that's not what I'm saying. That's what I said. I'm
not saying that. The prophet micas say that. I went
to high school here, I went to grade school. We
studied the Bible in school. They never taught us that
it's there. You can see it. I can see it.
How come they didn't teach us that. How come they
didn't teach us that our Messiah has to be born

(58:34):
in Bethlehem? I said, I don't know. He goes Joel.
You need to go to the education minister. You need
to yell at him. You need to say, why aren't
this being taught? This is important to us. Yes, I said,
I don't know that that's my role. I think maybe
that's your role. Yeah, And I said but but and
then I used that thing. I said, look, you know,
the Messiah cannot come anymore. Why not because you guys

(58:55):
gave away Bethlehem to the Palestinis. There's no Jews being
born there.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
He was like furious. Now I wish I could tell
you that that led him into the Kingdom hasn't yet
the but he literally didn't know and it bothered him.
These are important basic truths. We didn't even get to
Isaiah fifty three. Right, we're just doing some of the basics.
But Jews don't most Jews, American, Israeli, we don't. We

(59:21):
do not know this. So we're not rejecting a doctrine
that we've heard, processed and said, no, that's not true.
We're rejecting the history of Jewish Christian relations. And Christians
are violating Romans ten. How can they call on the
name of someone they haven't heard, How can they call
on how can they hear if no one tells them?
This is what the problem is. The church isn't The

(59:43):
church isn't telling Some of the church at least is
providing support to Israel political, moral, financial, But so much
of the church, the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, even
at the Reform movement, and even much of Evan Jelicalism,
isn't telling our people the basics. And you would never

(01:00:05):
you know, your whole life is based on Everybody needs
to hear. Everybody needs a friend who loves Jesus. And
even if they don't know me personally, I want at
least get them to come to a stadium or listen
to a podcast or watch a video and at least
tell them throw the seeds out there and see where
they land, and trust the Lord's going up. But most

(01:00:27):
of the church at this stage twenty twenty five, greg
aren't taking your heart and applying it to Jews. Many
aren't even applying it to Muslims, or our ministry is trying.
That's the largest issue. But even those who do, who
believe in the Great Commission, who believe in world missions,
they aren't even trying to reach the Jesus's own people.

(01:00:51):
Jesus came in as an Israeli, he came as a Jew.
Now he came to his own his own received him.
Not to those who did receive him Gentiles, not exactly
white trash, but I understand what your background the way
you say it, but you got it. And now you're
making Jews jealous because you know the God of Israel

(01:01:13):
and most of our team doesn't speaking. We've got to inspire,
not just challenge or criticize, but inspire the church who
loves Israel and at least gets that to make sure
that every Jew in the world has at least heard.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Well that phrase you years make them jealous. That's an
actual biblical phrase that the Gentiles would provoke the chosen people,
the Jews, to jealousy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
So years ago I was in Israel leading it to her.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I had a guide. I often used his name as David.
I actually liked him. He was in classic Israeli and
he loved to argue with me, and he and he
would sit in the front of the bus and debate
me and contradict everything I said. But I really like
this guy. Our conversations went on forever. Once I asked them, David,
let me ask you a question. Can you be a

(01:02:03):
Jew and believe in Jesus and still be a Jew? Nokay,
let me ask you another question.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Can you be an atheist and still be a Jew? Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Can you be a Satanist worship the devil and still
be a Jew?

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
So can you believe in Jesus as your Messiah and
still be a Jew? No?

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
I just thought that's not rational.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
But so anyway, we went of our debates at the
front of the bus, and one day we came to
the end of our tour, and I never felt like
I made any progress at David frankly. But the driver,
whose name Isnphtilly, he said, and he's spoken sort of
broken English. I was listening to what you were saying
to David. Yes, he goes, I like what you're saying,

(01:02:46):
I am jealous of your relationship with God. Use the
verbiage that Paul uses, and he says, I would like
you to come to my home and meet my family
and tell my family what you've told David. So Kathy
and I went to his home. Oh it was a
beautiful meal. We filled up immediately on the first course,
not realizing there were like three other courses coming. So

(01:03:09):
I was so full and sleepy. And now he has
this whole family gathered. There's like thirty people in a room.
Some of them are serving in the Israeli military. And
he says, now tell my whole family what you told me.
And I did. And it all started from a conversation
and he saw something in my relationship with God that,
in his words, made him jealous. So it's an illustration.

(01:03:33):
Well you just said, but let me just sif cairious.
I'm going to wrap this up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
I love that though, and thank you, thank you that
you are showing your love for Jewish people in lots
of practical ways, including helping buy a bulletproof ambulance, because
sometimes you have to drive an ambulance into harm's way
under fire and you're trying to evacuate people out and
you don't want everybody on the first responder team to
die trying to So thank you, because when you show
the love of Jesus, you tend to have an open

(01:03:59):
door to at least explain why do you who love Jesus?
Why are you loving us when the rest of the
world hates.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
And I think that's true of all evangelism. I mean,
I think the thing reaching people, it's first, just care,
care about them. People can tell if you care, build
a bridge to them, and then that effectively earns you
the right to share the gospel. Thanks for all this time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
My goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Thanks for having a lot of great insights into the
importance of Israel, the importance of our relationship with the
Jewish people, evangelizing them, and what's happening in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
So thanks for doing what you do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
You're uniquely gifted to do this, I think being a
novelist and you are a theologian. To combine those two
things together which means that you take that which is
hard for many people to understand, and the imaginative part
of you, the humorous part of you, makes it accessible
to regular people. That's a rare gift, and that's something

(01:04:58):
that people need to hear because it instead of Jesus,
the common people heard them gladling. You know, I've never
tried to press people with my speaking, obviously, but I
do want them to understand what I'm saying, and I
want to speak in a way that regular people can
just get this. And I think a lot of people
listening to us talk, maybe you've gotten some insights into

(01:05:18):
some things they wondered about before.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
I hope, so I appreciate it. I'm blessed as you know,
as you are. It's one thing to have a calling.
And when God says when you speak, speak, you know,
it's a gift that God has given you, so speak
as though it's the very words of God. So the
more you stick to the words of God, the better
you're an actual pastor. I'm not so I'm using journalism

(01:05:41):
or fiction to try to draw people to the actual scriptures.
But one of the keys is having good teams. And
you've got a great team here at Harvest. I've been
blessed with having several teams. The Joshua Fund is our
ministry to bless Israel and her neighbors in the name
of Jesus, strengthen the local church, get the gospel out
and raise up the church. All Israel News, all Arab

(01:06:03):
News is our way of explaining what's really happening day
to day. And then our show on TBN, the Rosenberg
Report again just a weekly TV version of what's really
happening in the church, in the Middle East, in the region,
in the world, in the war. But all that requires
people around you that love the Lord and are really

(01:06:24):
good at what they do. And I'm very blessed my
wife and the teams that I get to lead are
passionate about this stuff and they really help me. Do
you know a person by himself is you can only
get so much done. But when we've got teams to
help you take that message and drive it much further,

(01:06:44):
that's those fun teams to work.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Well. Thanks for doing it. Keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Thanks, thank you, thank you. I appreciate it very much.