June 2, 2026 • 39 mins
Would you risk everything for your faith, even if it meant facing failure? On today’s episode of The Greg Laurie Show, Pastor Greg sits down with acclaimed screenwriter and director Randall Wallace—the visionary behind iconic films like Braveheart, We Were Soldiers, and Heaven Is for Real—for an intimate conversation about faith, creativity, and the courage to stand firm when the world tells you to compromise.
From the emotional roots of Braveheart’s legendary story to the spiritual battles that shaped Randall’s creative journey, the two explore what it means to pursue calling over comfort in both film and life. You’ll hear firsthand how a simple trip to Scotland sparked the inspiration for Braveheart, and the little-known story behind the prayer that set Randall on the path to writing one of the most enduring screenplays of our time. Plus, don’t miss a preview of Randall’s next groundbreaking project: a long-awaited sequel to The Passion of the Christ, exploring the mystery and power of the resurrection.
--------
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Randall Wallace’s Braveheart Prayer and Life Philosophy
01:17 Discovering William Wallace and the Birth of Braveheart
05:36 Faith, Family, and Facing Failure in Hollywood
10:25 Braveheart’s Enduring Message and Personal Meaning
13:00 Braveheart as a Christ-like Figure
15:35 Embracing Uncertainty and the Creative Process
16:04 The Highest Calling: Finding Your Unique Purpose
21:06 Film as Art and a Vehicle for the Gospel
22:06 The Power of Authentic Storytelling
26:42 Writing the Resurrection: Sequel to The Passion
33:02 Living the Braveheart Life: Lessons and Live Show
38:08 The Importance of Physical Action in Spiritual Living
40:05 Every Reading, a New Perspective on Faith
40:22 Closing Reflections and Wallace’s Lasting Impact
--------
Want more from Greg Laurie? Visit:
Find Pastor Greg on social media:
https://www.instagram.com/greglaurie/
https://www.facebook.com/harvest.greglaurie
Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Life audio, and my prayer was, if that's what's best
for my son now, then please bring that on and
help me bear it. Yes, but if I go down
in this fight, let me go down, not on my
knees to Hollywood trying to do what Hollywood so they want.
Let me go down with my flag flying, fighting for
what I believe.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey, I'm here with a very special individual, Randall Wallace.
I know you've seen his movies. Even if you're not
aware of who he is yet, you will be after
we talk a little bit. But one of my favorite
films of all time, it's my top ten, is Braveheart.
Here's how I know a movie is one of my favorites.
If I'm flipping the channels on the TV and that
(00:57):
movie comes on, even though I've seen it, maybe though
I've even downloaded it, I'll watch it because I like
it so much. Braveheart is clearly one of those movies.
When it came out, it won ten Academy Awards, including
Best Picture, Best Director that was Mel Gibson directing it,
and Best Screenwriting. And that's where Randall Wallace comes in.
(01:20):
You're the screenwriter of Braveheart, and more than that, really
it was your vision and your dream from the very beginning,
wasn't it? Yes? It was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I was trying to find my family history. And my
wife was pregnant with our first first son, and she
has ancestors who were Latter Day Saint Mormons, and so
she knew all of her family genealogy, and I didn't
know any of mine.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And we went to Scotland and walked into Edinburgh Castle
and there on one side of the entrance was a
statue of William Wallace. On the other side was Robert
the Bruce.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Did you know about William Wallace that I'm not? I
don't think a lot of people knew about him until
this film came out.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Honestly, it was bizarre to me that I'm an American
just deeply fascinated by history named Wallace, and I'd never
heard of this man. I said to one of the
guards there, who's this Wallace? And he said, our greatest hero.
And I was elbowing the pregnant wife, greatest hero, honey,
(02:27):
And I said to him, was he an ally of
Robert the Bruce? Because I knew about Robert the Bruce,
and I knew the Bruce was Scotland's greatest king. And
I said, so were they allies and fighting the English?
And he said no one will ever know for sure. Wow,
which are the magic words for a writer. But our
legends say that Robert the Bruce may have been one
(02:51):
of those who betrayed William Wallace to clear it away
for himself to be king. That was like I had
heard that Judas and Peter were the same individual. I
started to think, what if there was something so noble
about the life and death of William Wallace that that
was what transformed Robin de Bouse from being someone who
(03:11):
would betray his country's greatest hero right and of becoming
the greatest king. And that to me was a story
for all times.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So my last name is Laurie, and it's a Scottish name.
We have a clan, we have a coat of arms,
and so my father, Oscar Laurie, adopted me and I
was with him as a young boy. My mom was
married in divorce seven times. She was one of her
seven husbands, so she left him when I was a kid.
I reconnected with him later in life and was able
(03:41):
even to lead him to the Lord. But so he
wanted to tell me the family history. He said, there's
two very famous people in our line of Laurie. One
is Annie Laurie. And funny enough, I knew about her
because I had an Orange Create label that said Annie Laurie,
so I was aware of Anni Laurie. Then he said
William Wallace, and I had never heard of him, and
(04:03):
I noted it. Oh, William Wallace in Okay, And I
didn't do any research on William Wallace, and Brave Feart
came out and going, wait, that's William Wallace. So through adoption,
I'm connected to William Wallace and that movie. It's just
it's a phenomenon. I mean, it impacted Scotland. There are
tourists today that go there exclusively to go to the
(04:25):
spots where battle scenes happened to learn more about him.
And that is really because you explored this character. But
we'll get into that in the moment. But of course
you've been involved in so many movies. You wrote the
screenplay for Pearl Harbor, you wrote the screenplay and directed
The Man in the Iron Mask. Yes, Leonardo DiCaprio and
John Malkovich and others. You also wrote this screenplay for Secretariat.
(04:49):
Did you direct that as Oh. I directed that as well.
Heaven Is for Real? Right, Yes, you wrote the screenplay
for that and directed that as well. And then We
were Soldiers. You directed that, correct, starring Mel Gibson, and
wrote the screenplay for that. And we're going to talk
about what you're working on now, but just this incredible
(05:10):
body of work. But coming back to Braveheart for a moment.
So you told me that you went there with your
wife and you began to explore this story. But I
think it was like ten years later it actually happened, right,
that's right. Why Why did a decade pass before this
really became a project?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
You know, there are many ways to try to answer
that question. The way I say it is that God
had to prepare me. I knew it was an incredible story,
and I knew I had to write it, but I
didn't feel ready. And I also I had a baby
coming and I didn't have a real solid means of
(05:52):
making money. So I knew I had to see to
that first, right, And in seeing to that, and I
began to work in television and I began to make
money and I got economically repaired, but then I had
to get spiritually prepared. So when people will say to me,
where did brave Heart come from? The best anecdote I
(06:13):
can tell is that I was sailing along my first
son was born, and then the second came along. I
had a long term contract with a television company. They
guaranteed me a really wonderful income for years into the future,
and so we bought a new home and spent all
of our savings remodeling it because we figured we had
(06:36):
money coming in and it was only a one time thing.
We're going to build this home and make it right
for the family. And as soon as all of our
savings were gone, there was a writer strike, which I
had not expected, and it went on and on, and
I began to break down. I began to nod up
(06:56):
so much. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, couldn't write.
And when I was the same age as my sons were,
had a nervous breakdown, and I had seen that happen,
and it was the most terrifying experience of my wife
and me. Was the best man I ever knew, the
most confident, the most loving and caring. But he had
(07:18):
been on his own since he was fourteen, and he
had lost his job and was having trouble finding another woman.
He just came apart, and I was afraid I was
going to put my sons through the same thing. I
had nowhere else to go except on my knees. I
said this prayer, and my prayer was, Lord, what matters
(07:38):
most to me right now is my sons. I know
my wife's going to be all right. I know I'm
going to be all right, no matter what I have
to crawl through. You know what broken glass I have
to crawl through now. But it looked like we were
going to lose our home all of in my career.
I was going to have to go do something else.
But my prayer was, what matters is my son's And
maybe they'll grow up to be better men if instead
(08:02):
of living in a house with all the bedrooms and
the bathrooms and tennis court, they'll grow up in a
little house like one without indoor plumbing. Because my sister
and I lived that way when our father was sick.
We were farmed out to relatives were in Tennessee. We
lived in a place with no.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
To the pump dutch or water or well or.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, they they they had they had water in the kitchen,
but the toilet was an outhouse, which is not uncommon
in those days in Tennessee. But we were way out
in the country and you know, fights in school every
day and all of that. It was, it was. It
was a hard time, but a wonderful time in a way.
(08:43):
And I and my prayer was, if that's what's best
for my son, then please bring that on and help
me bear it. Yes, but if I go down in
this fight, let me go down, not on my knees
to Hollywood trying to do what Hollywood so they want.
Let me go down with my flag flying, fighting for
what I believe. And I stood up and went back
to my desk, and that led directly to Brave Heeart.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Wow. Not all movies stand the test of time. Some
it seems like they become better. Maybe it's because you
compare them to other movies that have come and gone,
even movies that have swept the awards and they're forgotten.
But then there's other movies that maybe didn't even win
an award. In this case, Brave Far won many, but
they just they hold up and maybe even the message
(09:28):
of them resonates more strongly in modern times. And when
it first came out, I feel Bravefart certainly is a lovia.
I watch it all the time. I've downloaded it, I
watch it, I rewatch it. I'm just so moved by
the whole story, everything about it. It seems like every time
I watch it, I see something new. Maybe I hadn't
noticed before, but just so well cast, and the music amazing,
(09:50):
and obviously the dialogue and everyone when they quote Braveheart
of course, you know, quote mel shouting out when they're
torturing him freedom.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You know that's the best line of dialogue in the
whole movie. Yeah, Freedom.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Is there something you were trying to say as you
put that movie together? Or was it just following the
narrative of the life of William Wallace or was there
something you're saying, I want to this is a theme
from his life. I think that the audience needs to
be aware of.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I think it was as much as anything, it was
me trying to find what I needed, to be aware
of what I most needed. So it's personal, absolutely, and
in fact, honestly, Greg, when I finished it, I had
no sense that anyone in the world was going to
like it except me.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
How interesting do you feel that way with every movie
you were every screenplay.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You're right, there is an element of that. The best
ones are always are not. Oh, I think they'll like this,
though I don't particularly like it. I mean, I think
that's the road to hell. It's this gives me joy.
The surprise is made. That's the biggest thing to me
is God surprises. When God shows up, it's a surprise.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, I feel that William Wallace, and the way you
were telling this story in my interpretation, was a christ
like figure. Oh yeah, I mean when he's laying there
and they're torturing them, you can't help but think of
the cross, right, and you look at this man who
laid his life down and sacrifice his life for his nation.
But of your I'm sure all your films are like
(11:27):
children to you.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You probably loved them all, yes, but that's right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
But if you were to look at all the Randall
Wallace films that you've either directed or written a screenplay
for it, you have a favorite, like this is my favorite?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I don't, honestly, and I think about that. I do
think about that sometimes there are But in your analogy
of children is exactly right. You only have one oldest,
you only have one youngest, You only have one in
the middle, the only, and they're each they're each special
in their own way, and you love all of them absolutely.
(12:00):
Braveheart was certainly special for me, and that I was
a complete the unknown screenwriter, and I went from that
to working with Mel Gibson, who was the you know,
the biggest star in the world and and a genius filmmaker.
So it certainly has taken me a long distance. But
(12:23):
it's really funny when people will say, like your reference
to Christ like figure, They'll say, well, you must have
done a lot of research, and I say, yeah, I
read the New Testament, and Mel recognized that right away.
He instantly the prayer in prison when he says every
man dies, and I was right out of the garden
of guests, simone, you know, praying to die well. And
(12:45):
he praised before battle and even his dreams and the
temptations to to just fight for vengeance rather than to
transcend all of that, like if it may have to
lay down my life to convince the people that I'm
fighting that we actually deserve to win, we deserve to
(13:06):
be free. So I didn't see any of it coming.
I didn't have an outline. I didn't have a historical
record to follow. Wow, I just sat down and began,
There's not a lot about William Wall exactly right. There's
there's there's virtually no. Winston Churchill talks about him in
his History of the English Speaking Peoples and he says,
(13:28):
virtually nothing is historically established, and yet his legends have
inspired his people for centuries.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And that's that's correct. So I'm saying, what would the
what is the thing about him that inspires me?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Do you have a lot of ideas always crowding into
your mind, like I want to read in this or
rent that, or do you have times where you have
nothing and then maybe when you're not even thinking about it,
something just comes to you. Like how talk about the
creative process of getting from a the seed idea to
be a completed book, screenplay or film.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's being in is vital for me. I'm not a sailor,
but I've been on a couple of sailboats and I've
learned some of the processes that when the sailboat is
not moving, it can't steer. Yes, And so I believe
in motion. So when people say to me, what do
(14:25):
you do about writer's block? I go, I don't know
I never have it because I accept that the first
things that I write are the last things I write
may be junk. It's not do.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You really think something you write as junk? Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, seldom do I stand up from having written something
down and say that's not worth writing. It's like, I
always feel that interesting that I'm glad I wrote it,
but before I begin, I give myself permission not to know.
It's stepping into the unknown. It's the biggest thing. And
(15:01):
the older I get greg the more that becomes a
model from me. It's that I love theology. I've studied
it my whole life. I said.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And at one point, you even you have a conversation
you had with your pastor. He asked you, would you
like to become a pastor? Yes, and you said something
along lines of it, I think that would be the
highest calling. And then he said something else to you,
didn't he that's right.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
He asked me if I felt the call, and I said, honestly,
I don't, but I know it's the highest calling anyone
could have. And he said, you're wrong. The highest calling
you can have is one God has for you, and
which is very true. It was one of the best
pieces of pastoring he ever gave me, and he gave
a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But in a way though, you know, Randy, you've been
able to take your love of theology and your ability
to write and get the message or aspects of the
gospel to a huge audience globally, and so you do
have a platform to do that, and I think you
pretty much. I think of so many of your films,
We were soldiers, you see the faith I'm the main
(16:09):
character is how how more? Yeah? How more? You see
this tough soldier but he's down on his knees praying
with this little children. And of course William Wallace, clearly
it's there and h and of course you did having
as real that that is probably one of your more
overt faith projects, I think. But but it seems like
faith works its way through most of what you write.
(16:32):
Maybe would it be all of what you write?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I think? So yeah, and there I and it's it's
one of the things I'm fascinated with about all that
you have created and continued to create, and even the
sort of the seeker friendly aspects of church. And there's
like I I want to live in and address the
middle ground. A general doesn't want to win the French
(16:55):
as he wants to take the center of the battle.
And and that's that's where I want to be. So
it's not my own personal dogma that I believe. I
don't the end of the him, I lean not on
my own understanding. It's it's not my understanding that I
that I depend upon. It's faith, and it's Jordan Peterson
(17:16):
would say, it's face a kind of courage. Yeah, and
I certainly believe that. And and that's that's how I
feel that I have to step into life every single minute.
There's a movie, The Ghost in the Darkness, about two
men who are hunting man man eating lions.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
That's a great film.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I thought so too.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I read the book it was based on, called Death
and the Lung Rest uh huh, and a true story
of these two lions that got a taste for a
human and crazy. But what you're going to say something.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well, so there's the Val Kilmer character and the Michael Douglas.
Michael Douglas is an experienced lion hunter. Val Kilmer is brave,
but he's never done this, and yes, and he hires
the lion hunter and they're going out together, and the
Kilmer character says, well, you know, are you Are you scared?
And he went, oh, I'm terrified. I said, well you
(18:08):
I'm paraphrasing, but you've done this a lot and he said,
everyone's different every single and and again it's raising a child,
it's a marriage. Every day is different. Every screenplay. I
think it was you Adora Welty said, every story tells
me how to write it, but it doesn't tell me
how to write the next one. And so where you know,
(18:30):
you're listening to that story as you tell it, it's
revealing itself to you. But when you sit down your
novice again and should be I think, wow.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You know it was Luther that said, msik is the
handbeaten to theology. I think you could just as easily
take film or just art in general as a handbeaten
to theology. In other words, you know, there's a place
for art. And I think the Church understood this many
years ago, and we seemed to drift away from it.
(19:03):
And when you would think of a Christian you would
think it's going to be a B film, a cheesy film.
I think a lot has changed, and a lot of
the films that are coming up right now were mutual
friends of John Irwin, and I think John's really done
some amazing work and he has incredible project he's working
on in the future called The House of David that's
going to be with Amazonists. You know, it's going to
(19:24):
be big, and he's looking at the story, how to
tell the story on a big scale, but you know,
connecting the audience to David, who's such a colorful character.
But we did a film together called Jesus Revolution, which
is based on my life, and I feel I've seen
this happen Randy. I've seen how like I can preach
sermons all day long, but a movie, it disarms a
(19:48):
person because they relate to a character, sort of like
the hero's journey. You know, here I relate to this person.
I'm rooting for this person in a way, I feel
like I am this person. And maybe their heart is
more open than even their mind at first, but then
as you move along, now their mind is open to
what it is you're convened. I feel that art music
to some degree as well, and you're also a musician,
(20:10):
can disarm a person emotionally. They'll open up a little
bit and now you can get the message in there.
So it's like how do you find that fine line
of of not compromising art so it just becomes preaching,
though there's nothing wrong with preaching, but it has its place.
How do you take art and actually convey a message
(20:32):
with power in it and do both together?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
For me, and I hope this doesn't sound like a
kind of Yoda type of answer. For me, it begins
and ends with authenticity. It's like when someone is preaching
to me, whether we're talking about in church or politics
or or any time, but they're they're preaching what they
(20:59):
want me to believe, but what they do themselves do
not believe. It stinks and it doesn't feel right in someplace,
no matter how good it sounds. So a big thing
for me is that I'm telling a story that is
true for me, that moves me, that surprises me. Jane
(21:22):
Austen said, an ending that does not surprise the writer
will not surprise the reader. And I can tell you
at the end of Braveheart, when I was writing the
axes falling toward William Wallas's neck, I knew we couldn't
show the audience that, and I stopped at that point
and thought, well, what would he do at this moment?
The last fraction of a second of his life? What
(21:44):
would you do? And I thought, oh, he knows his
friends were there, he would look to them. So I typed,
in the last moment of his life, William Wullit's turned
to look at his friends. And it was not until
that instant that I knew that she was there too,
that his life was their way. And I wept. I
sat there and I wept. And that was one of
those experiences like, Okay, here I am alone in my
(22:06):
office weeping writing this story. Is this self indulgent iss
all the things that you get into it. I gave
the script to the studio executive, Rebecca Pollack, who's Sydney
Pollack's daughter and one of the great filmmakers will Less,
and she called me and said, well, we traditionally we
make copies and we send the copies to the different
(22:29):
department heads, but the assistants I'll read them first. And
she said, all the assistants in the company are sitting
at their desk, cryme and okay, so maybe so.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
It has to hit you, then it will hit others.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, And I wonder about that when you're when you're
a pastor, when you're really leading and there got to
be times when all of the things that are going
on in your life and all the people that you're
taking care of are so complex and difficult, But you're
in your delivering a message to many many people. How
(23:04):
do you? How do you in that?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
It's the same principle. You know, John writes, these things
that we have seen and heard, we declare unto you
that you me have fellowship with God. So it starts
with we've seen this, and we've heard this, and we
know this is true, right, and I've heard it said.
It can't happen through you until it first happens to you,
so for you know, yes, So it is. It is authenticity.
(23:29):
And when I speak, I try to keep it real
and honest and admit my shortcomings and flaws, but talk
about how something has impacted me and is impacting me.
And I think people connect to that. I think especially
young people today, they're looking for authenticity. And of course
the Church, you know, we haven't always done a great
job with this, and we have our hypocrites and we
(23:51):
have our flaws. But the way I look at it
is it's the only organization Jesus ever started. He said,
the gates of hell will not prevail against it. He
loves his church. I think as Christians we should love
the church too and find our place in it. Then,
you know, but it does just start with truth and authenticity.
(24:12):
You are working on arguably maybe what could be the
most important movie of recent history, and that is a
sequel to The Passion. The Passion rock the World. There's
no denying that fact. I remember when I was invited
by Mel Gibson to see an early version of it,
and even before all the CG was done, and not
(24:33):
that it had a lot of CG, but certain things
were not done yet. Then I remember there was a
people were questioning why is it in Aramaic, and they
were pushing back, and I felt what Mill did by
having it in Aramaic was you felt like you got
in a time machine and went back, and so it
really felt like you were there. Yes, and of course
(24:54):
powerful performances. Jim Cabizel is Jesus and the whole cast
was fantastic. But you know, there were to me there
were connections to Braveheart just the way he filmed certain things.
I like that the night scenes and Brave Heart and
the night scenes and as it opened and Getseminett that
I love the way Mel films and it was almost
at times like a painting. You're looking at a painting.
(25:15):
Certain scenes were just wow. But this movie impacted people
all around the globe. I know personally of people that
came to Christ watching this movie, but audiences that would
have never set foot at a church watched it. Some
out of anger, but they just felt they had to
watch it. And now there's a movie about the resurrection
(25:36):
of Jesus and you're writing the screenplay. Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I'm working on it with Mel. Yeah. I wrote the
original screenplay, and I'm certain that he had thought of
doing it in other times. But we were having dinner
one night and I said, you know, as powerful as
the Passion has been, there's an even more powerful story,
(26:00):
and we need to do that. The big thing to
me is the assertion that the rest Direction is real, historical,
physical I believe that totally. I also know that there
are mysteries about it, and that some of his followers
would see him and wouldn't recognize him at first, and
(26:20):
you ask yourself what's going on in it? And that's intriguing.
So I'm even going on based on what we've worked on.
I'm writing what I'm calling a novel because there's material
that's not all of everything in the story is in
the New Testament. It's implicit and just like say the Passion,
(26:41):
the New Testament doesn't say Satan was in the Garden
of Guessemone, but of course we would naturally believe that
Satan was there, as he was at war with Jesus.
But Jesus going into Hell itself to try to save
the souls there. Those are the profound spiritual issues, and
(27:02):
I do believe the movie will be one of them.
Is the mount everest of story?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Has the screen Is it done? Is the screenplay done?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
You're still working on it, still working on it, but
you're still working it out. At every stage, even when
you get down to you you're editing, you have to
ask yourself what is this really about? And one of
my disciplines is what's the elevator speech? You know, what
would you say if you had if you had sixty seconds?
Here's what this is. One of the things I really
(27:35):
love about now is he is as honest. He's more
honest about his flaws than any any of his critics
are about his flaws. And he's aware of his vulnerability.
In the first thing he said to me, when I said,
we really need to do the resurrection, he said, we
have to be sure of our spirits. This can't be
(27:56):
about the money. It can't be about our egos. It
can't be about vindication or our payback to our critics
or any of that. And God bless you, that is
a beautiful thing to say. A key component for me
about the resurrection story. I want to know more of
why he's on the cross. I want to know how
(28:17):
I got there anyway, Well, we all know that. No,
actually we don't all know that, and the and we
want to know what you think, and we want to like,
what what do you use a filmmaker want to say
to the audience of this is why this was happening.
So my traditional version of the story, and the one
I'm writing in the novel version, is that you've got Peter.
(28:42):
You start with the Jesus's death on the cross, and
Peter's absolutely wretched experience, and that is he is just
eaten up with guilt. He goes back in his memories
to meeting Jesus for the first time. John the Baptist
love that and how Jesus called those disciples. And here's
(29:04):
I want to try a thought out on and say,
you tell me how you feel about this. A revelation
for me about this is there is a proof of
the resurrection. You know, people will say, well, it's preposterous
and I can't NTI write your British thinker would say,
if you don't think it's preposterous, you're missing the point.
It blows away all of your conceptions. We all know,
(29:28):
every human being would say, oh, Jesus was a brilliant teacher.
You know, whether they don't. They may not like Christians,
they may don't like church, and maybe they have had
a bad experience. But here's the thing. We would have
never heard his name or heard one thing he said
except for one event, the resurrection. It's crucifixion. If that
(29:49):
had been the end, it was over his disciples. They
didn't expect it.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
And you know, the disciples on the Ams wrote he
joined them, and he, you know, says why are you
so sad? Well, I mean you heard about the things
of Jesus Nazareth and then Jesus says, well what things?
So now they're telling Jesus about Jesus. Yeah, and he
listens and they say, you know, he was crucified, and
(30:16):
it's been three days since this happened, and we hoped
he would have been the Messiah or the one to deliver.
Is your whole past tense. So they were They had
no idea that they were talking to the risen Savior
until he made himself known to them. They break bread,
and all of a sudden, like to your point, like
why didn't they know? I don't know why they didn't
(30:37):
recognize him, because he said to his disciples that fair period,
it is I it's not another It's not like he
was translucent. It's not like he floated. He was physical,
risen Jesus with the marks of the crucifixion in his
hands and feet, still but yet recognizable, but yet not
always recognizable, yet appearing in a room without using the door.
(31:00):
So there's all these interesting little twists and turns on it.
But they weren't expecting it. And the way that they
all pretty much went to die the death of a martyr,
with the exception of John the Beloved who has banished
at the island of Papos. If it wasn't true, one
of them would have said, it's not true. We made
this up. I'm on my deathbed. Why do I want
(31:22):
to perpetuate this myth? But none of them said that
because they couldn't deny what they had seen and experienced. Yes,
now you are going on a tour of sorts, right,
or doing shows like a one man show. Yes, which
just talking with you, I know it's going to be
fantastic here, so interesting, and you have so much to
stay and you've done so much in your life. Tell
(31:44):
us about your show. I think it's living the brave
heart life.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yes. During the pandemic, I got not only restless, but
then I got offended at people being kept from each other.
I think we need you know, Zim's wonderful invention and
all of that, but you know FaceTime and there's nothing
like being with us people. And uh and I like
(32:10):
in my everyday life. I really learned this. I think
when my mother was was getting older and was in
a nursing home, and i'd go visit her, and I
realized that all these old people sitting around, no one
ever touched them. And I would hug my mother, and
I would see the look on her friend's faces, and
I would go around and hug them too, that this
(32:31):
is important. We need we need each other and and
I and I also have been frustrated with the state
of the movie business when I felt it people weren't
trying to make the movie the audience really wanted to
see they were. There were other other agenda driving this thing.
(32:56):
And I just said I was going to do a
live show and use clips from my movies and stories
about how I came to write those, like the story
about that prayer and songs that I've written because I
started life as a singer songwriter, and weave it all
together into an experience to try to get people to
viscerally not just it's not a lecture, it's it's not
(33:19):
not even so much information. It's the too experience within
each of us, the warrior inside that did Screams for Freedom.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Is there a book coming out along with this as well?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes, well I've got I've got a book Living the
Brave Heart Life that I wrote sometime back.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
In So how does one live the brave heart life?
Do you have to paint half your face blue?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
It's a really effective thing. And and and I'll say
this honestly, there is a physical component to it. There
was so much in my In my childhood, I was
in church for hours and hours an hour, and I
know we have we have a really different background, but
(34:02):
so it's fascinating that the God bring us both to
the same place. Yes, that I set for oh maybe
twenty hours a week in church. Wow, it was not
unusual first to have. We had two a day tent
revivals in boy Scouts were at church, and yeah Little
League was at church and all of that. But it's
(34:25):
easy just to think of the faith as elsewhere, which
is one of the I mean, it's in heaven, That's
where God's glory is and to not feel it so
much here. And I loved when I read C. S.
Lewis said, I think it was in his book The
Great Divorce, but he said, everyone who goes to heaven
will believe Heaven began when they were born on earth,
(34:47):
and everyone who goes to hell will believe that hell
began when they were born on earth. Like, this world
is a beautiful place. This world is a reflection of Heaven,
and we are each other reflections of God. And I
find that there's a physical component me to feel closer
to God, like when I put on a kilt, I'm
(35:10):
taking my family in a few weeks to Scotland for
the gathering of the Walyses. And you put on a
kilt and you stand up taller and you feel more energy.
And you when you when you square your shoulders and
you you face that, when you look at danger instead
of look away, when you when you accept your flaws,
(35:34):
and you you you look at issues like forgiveness, and
you think, how can I be asking for forgiveness if
I am not forgiving myself. Those are physical things, not
just ethereal, disembodied things. So for me, living the Brave
(35:55):
Heart life has to do with what we can control
right here, which is what we do every day, how
we take care of ourselves, how we take care of others.
When you know, some years ago, right after Braveheart, I
got some friends together and we started Hollywood for Habitat
for Humanity and having to do with the work of
(36:18):
a whole lot of other people besides me. They're the
ones that carried all the water. But that little affiliate,
the Greater Los Angeles, run by an incredible young woman
named Aaron Rank, went from a minuscule little affiliate to
the most influential one in all of the world. Wow,
(36:38):
And to me that the big thing was to get
your hands dirty and your heart clean. Like that, take
a physical take a step, a physical step that goes
with the with the spiritual step.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
That's great. When did you make a actual commitment to
Christ that was more than just a child maybe listening
to your grandmother and being moved by the stories she
told you to I am now embraced Christ as my
savior and Lord, and I'm going to follow.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Him this morning. And yes, yes I'm a different person
each day, and each day I have to do it again.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I I don't have any recollect I mean I was baptized,
you know, total immersion Baptist Church and Memphis when I
was you know, eleven or twelve. And there again, like
I love the physical thing of baptism. Yes, I think
it's I think it's really important, right. But I I
(37:45):
never remember a time when I didn't see myself as
a Christian. But but I had plenty of times of doubt.
And I have plenty of times when I say, I
know what the right way is. That's not the problem. Yeah,
it's doing doing that that's and so and and even fun.
(38:08):
You know, when I was marveling to a friend of mine.
As much as I've read the Bible in my life,
and then I'm thinking, this thing still surprises me. I really,
you say, you watch Braveheart and you see something new.
It's I think. I think a story lasts because it
is alive, and it's alive because it's in touch with
(38:31):
what is eternally true.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And so what my my current understanding is one of
the Bible is fresh to me is that each time
I read it, I'm being changed. So the next time
I read it, a new Randy is reading it.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Wow, and great statement, Oh Randy. It's been a real
pleasure talking to you now, so many amazing things that
you've shared with us. And I just pray and hope
that you keep doing what you're doing because you are
making a difference and impacting people. And and thank you
for taking this time to talk a little bit about
your life and your thoughts and how you tick. And
(39:12):
I've been very inspired by it. So thanks again,
Life audio, and my prayer was, if that's what's best
for my son now, then please bring that on and
help me bear it. Yes, but if I go down
in this fight, let me go down, not on my
knees to Hollywood trying to do what Hollywood so they want.
Let me go down with my flag flying, fighting for
what I believe.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey, I'm here with a very special individual, Randall Wallace.
I know you've seen his movies. Even if you're not
aware of who he is yet, you will be after
we talk a little bit. But one of my favorite
films of all time, it's my top ten, is Braveheart.
Here's how I know a movie is one of my favorites.
If I'm flipping the channels on the TV and that
(00:57):
movie comes on, even though I've seen it, maybe though
I've even downloaded it, I'll watch it because I like
it so much. Braveheart is clearly one of those movies.
When it came out, it won ten Academy Awards, including
Best Picture, Best Director that was Mel Gibson directing it,
and Best Screenwriting. And that's where Randall Wallace comes in.
(01:20):
You're the screenwriter of Braveheart, and more than that, really
it was your vision and your dream from the very beginning,
wasn't it? Yes? It was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I was trying to find my family history. And my
wife was pregnant with our first first son, and she
has ancestors who were Latter Day Saint Mormons, and so
she knew all of her family genealogy, and I didn't
know any of mine.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And we went to Scotland and walked into Edinburgh Castle
and there on one side of the entrance was a
statue of William Wallace. On the other side was Robert
the Bruce.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Did you know about William Wallace that I'm not? I
don't think a lot of people knew about him until
this film came out.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Honestly, it was bizarre to me that I'm an American
just deeply fascinated by history named Wallace, and I'd never
heard of this man. I said to one of the
guards there, who's this Wallace? And he said, our greatest hero.
And I was elbowing the pregnant wife, greatest hero, honey,
(02:27):
And I said to him, was he an ally of
Robert the Bruce? Because I knew about Robert the Bruce,
and I knew the Bruce was Scotland's greatest king. And
I said, so were they allies and fighting the English?
And he said no one will ever know for sure. Wow,
which are the magic words for a writer. But our
legends say that Robert the Bruce may have been one
(02:51):
of those who betrayed William Wallace to clear it away
for himself to be king. That was like I had
heard that Judas and Peter were the same individual. I
started to think, what if there was something so noble
about the life and death of William Wallace that that
was what transformed Robin de Bouse from being someone who
(03:11):
would betray his country's greatest hero right and of becoming
the greatest king. And that to me was a story
for all times.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So my last name is Laurie, and it's a Scottish name.
We have a clan, we have a coat of arms,
and so my father, Oscar Laurie, adopted me and I
was with him as a young boy. My mom was
married in divorce seven times. She was one of her
seven husbands, so she left him when I was a kid.
I reconnected with him later in life and was able
(03:41):
even to lead him to the Lord. But so he
wanted to tell me the family history. He said, there's
two very famous people in our line of Laurie. One
is Annie Laurie. And funny enough, I knew about her
because I had an Orange Create label that said Annie Laurie,
so I was aware of Anni Laurie. Then he said
William Wallace, and I had never heard of him, and
(04:03):
I noted it. Oh, William Wallace in Okay, And I
didn't do any research on William Wallace, and Brave Feart
came out and going, wait, that's William Wallace. So through adoption,
I'm connected to William Wallace and that movie. It's just
it's a phenomenon. I mean, it impacted Scotland. There are
tourists today that go there exclusively to go to the
(04:25):
spots where battle scenes happened to learn more about him.
And that is really because you explored this character. But
we'll get into that in the moment. But of course
you've been involved in so many movies. You wrote the
screenplay for Pearl Harbor, you wrote the screenplay and directed
The Man in the Iron Mask. Yes, Leonardo DiCaprio and
John Malkovich and others. You also wrote this screenplay for Secretariat.
(04:49):
Did you direct that as Oh. I directed that as well.
Heaven Is for Real? Right, Yes, you wrote the screenplay
for that and directed that as well. And then We
were Soldiers. You directed that, correct, starring Mel Gibson, and
wrote the screenplay for that. And we're going to talk
about what you're working on now, but just this incredible
(05:10):
body of work. But coming back to Braveheart for a moment.
So you told me that you went there with your
wife and you began to explore this story. But I
think it was like ten years later it actually happened, right,
that's right. Why Why did a decade pass before this
really became a project?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
You know, there are many ways to try to answer
that question. The way I say it is that God
had to prepare me. I knew it was an incredible story,
and I knew I had to write it, but I
didn't feel ready. And I also I had a baby
coming and I didn't have a real solid means of
(05:52):
making money. So I knew I had to see to
that first, right, And in seeing to that, and I
began to work in television and I began to make
money and I got economically repaired, but then I had
to get spiritually prepared. So when people will say to me,
where did brave Heart come from? The best anecdote I
(06:13):
can tell is that I was sailing along my first
son was born, and then the second came along. I
had a long term contract with a television company. They
guaranteed me a really wonderful income for years into the future,
and so we bought a new home and spent all
of our savings remodeling it because we figured we had
(06:36):
money coming in and it was only a one time thing.
We're going to build this home and make it right
for the family. And as soon as all of our
savings were gone, there was a writer strike, which I
had not expected, and it went on and on, and
I began to break down. I began to nod up
(06:56):
so much. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, couldn't write.
And when I was the same age as my sons were,
had a nervous breakdown, and I had seen that happen,
and it was the most terrifying experience of my wife
and me. Was the best man I ever knew, the
most confident, the most loving and caring. But he had
(07:18):
been on his own since he was fourteen, and he
had lost his job and was having trouble finding another woman.
He just came apart, and I was afraid I was
going to put my sons through the same thing. I
had nowhere else to go except on my knees. I
said this prayer, and my prayer was, Lord, what matters
(07:38):
most to me right now is my sons. I know
my wife's going to be all right. I know I'm
going to be all right, no matter what I have
to crawl through. You know what broken glass I have
to crawl through now. But it looked like we were
going to lose our home all of in my career.
I was going to have to go do something else.
But my prayer was, what matters is my son's And
maybe they'll grow up to be better men if instead
(08:02):
of living in a house with all the bedrooms and
the bathrooms and tennis court, they'll grow up in a
little house like one without indoor plumbing. Because my sister
and I lived that way when our father was sick.
We were farmed out to relatives were in Tennessee. We
lived in a place with no.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
To the pump dutch or water or well or.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, they they they had they had water in the kitchen,
but the toilet was an outhouse, which is not uncommon
in those days in Tennessee. But we were way out
in the country and you know, fights in school every
day and all of that. It was, it was. It
was a hard time, but a wonderful time in a way.
(08:43):
And I and my prayer was, if that's what's best
for my son, then please bring that on and help
me bear it. Yes, but if I go down in
this fight, let me go down, not on my knees
to Hollywood trying to do what Hollywood so they want.
Let me go down with my flag flying, fighting for
what I believe. And I stood up and went back
to my desk, and that led directly to Brave Heeart.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Wow. Not all movies stand the test of time. Some
it seems like they become better. Maybe it's because you
compare them to other movies that have come and gone,
even movies that have swept the awards and they're forgotten.
But then there's other movies that maybe didn't even win
an award. In this case, Brave Far won many, but
they just they hold up and maybe even the message
(09:28):
of them resonates more strongly in modern times. And when
it first came out, I feel Bravefart certainly is a lovia.
I watch it all the time. I've downloaded it, I
watch it, I rewatch it. I'm just so moved by
the whole story, everything about it. It seems like every time
I watch it, I see something new. Maybe I hadn't
noticed before, but just so well cast, and the music amazing,
(09:50):
and obviously the dialogue and everyone when they quote Braveheart
of course, you know, quote mel shouting out when they're
torturing him freedom.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You know that's the best line of dialogue in the
whole movie. Yeah, Freedom.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Is there something you were trying to say as you
put that movie together? Or was it just following the
narrative of the life of William Wallace or was there
something you're saying, I want to this is a theme
from his life. I think that the audience needs to
be aware of.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I think it was as much as anything, it was
me trying to find what I needed, to be aware
of what I most needed. So it's personal, absolutely, and
in fact, honestly, Greg, when I finished it, I had
no sense that anyone in the world was going to
like it except me.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
How interesting do you feel that way with every movie
you were every screenplay.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You're right, there is an element of that. The best
ones are always are not. Oh, I think they'll like this,
though I don't particularly like it. I mean, I think
that's the road to hell. It's this gives me joy.
The surprise is made. That's the biggest thing to me
is God surprises. When God shows up, it's a surprise.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, I feel that William Wallace, and the way you
were telling this story in my interpretation, was a christ
like figure. Oh yeah, I mean when he's laying there
and they're torturing them, you can't help but think of
the cross, right, and you look at this man who
laid his life down and sacrifice his life for his nation.
But of your I'm sure all your films are like
(11:27):
children to you.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You probably loved them all, yes, but that's right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
But if you were to look at all the Randall
Wallace films that you've either directed or written a screenplay
for it, you have a favorite, like this is my favorite?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I don't, honestly, and I think about that. I do
think about that sometimes there are But in your analogy
of children is exactly right. You only have one oldest,
you only have one youngest, You only have one in
the middle, the only, and they're each they're each special
in their own way, and you love all of them absolutely.
(12:00):
Braveheart was certainly special for me, and that I was
a complete the unknown screenwriter, and I went from that
to working with Mel Gibson, who was the you know,
the biggest star in the world and and a genius filmmaker.
So it certainly has taken me a long distance. But
(12:23):
it's really funny when people will say, like your reference
to Christ like figure, They'll say, well, you must have
done a lot of research, and I say, yeah, I
read the New Testament, and Mel recognized that right away.
He instantly the prayer in prison when he says every
man dies, and I was right out of the garden
of guests, simone, you know, praying to die well. And
(12:45):
he praised before battle and even his dreams and the
temptations to to just fight for vengeance rather than to
transcend all of that, like if it may have to
lay down my life to convince the people that I'm
fighting that we actually deserve to win, we deserve to
(13:06):
be free. So I didn't see any of it coming.
I didn't have an outline. I didn't have a historical
record to follow. Wow, I just sat down and began,
There's not a lot about William Wall exactly right. There's
there's there's virtually no. Winston Churchill talks about him in
his History of the English Speaking Peoples and he says,
(13:28):
virtually nothing is historically established, and yet his legends have
inspired his people for centuries.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And that's that's correct. So I'm saying, what would the
what is the thing about him that inspires me?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Do you have a lot of ideas always crowding into
your mind, like I want to read in this or
rent that, or do you have times where you have
nothing and then maybe when you're not even thinking about it,
something just comes to you. Like how talk about the
creative process of getting from a the seed idea to
be a completed book, screenplay or film.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's being in is vital for me. I'm not a sailor,
but I've been on a couple of sailboats and I've
learned some of the processes that when the sailboat is
not moving, it can't steer. Yes, And so I believe
in motion. So when people say to me, what do
(14:25):
you do about writer's block? I go, I don't know
I never have it because I accept that the first
things that I write are the last things I write
may be junk. It's not do.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You really think something you write as junk? Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, seldom do I stand up from having written something
down and say that's not worth writing. It's like, I
always feel that interesting that I'm glad I wrote it,
but before I begin, I give myself permission not to know.
It's stepping into the unknown. It's the biggest thing. And
(15:01):
the older I get greg the more that becomes a
model from me. It's that I love theology. I've studied
it my whole life. I said.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And at one point, you even you have a conversation
you had with your pastor. He asked you, would you
like to become a pastor? Yes, and you said something
along lines of it, I think that would be the
highest calling. And then he said something else to you,
didn't he that's right.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
He asked me if I felt the call, and I said, honestly,
I don't, but I know it's the highest calling anyone
could have. And he said, you're wrong. The highest calling
you can have is one God has for you, and
which is very true. It was one of the best
pieces of pastoring he ever gave me, and he gave
a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But in a way though, you know, Randy, you've been
able to take your love of theology and your ability
to write and get the message or aspects of the
gospel to a huge audience globally, and so you do
have a platform to do that, and I think you
pretty much. I think of so many of your films,
We were soldiers, you see the faith I'm the main
(16:09):
character is how how more? Yeah? How more? You see
this tough soldier but he's down on his knees praying
with this little children. And of course William Wallace, clearly
it's there and h and of course you did having
as real that that is probably one of your more
overt faith projects, I think. But but it seems like
faith works its way through most of what you write.
(16:32):
Maybe would it be all of what you write?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I think? So yeah, and there I and it's it's
one of the things I'm fascinated with about all that
you have created and continued to create, and even the
sort of the seeker friendly aspects of church. And there's
like I I want to live in and address the
middle ground. A general doesn't want to win the French
(16:55):
as he wants to take the center of the battle.
And and that's that's where I want to be. So
it's not my own personal dogma that I believe. I
don't the end of the him, I lean not on
my own understanding. It's it's not my understanding that I
that I depend upon. It's faith, and it's Jordan Peterson
(17:16):
would say, it's face a kind of courage. Yeah, and
I certainly believe that. And and that's that's how I
feel that I have to step into life every single minute.
There's a movie, The Ghost in the Darkness, about two
men who are hunting man man eating lions.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
That's a great film.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I thought so too.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I read the book it was based on, called Death
and the Lung Rest uh huh, and a true story
of these two lions that got a taste for a
human and crazy. But what you're going to say something.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well, so there's the Val Kilmer character and the Michael Douglas.
Michael Douglas is an experienced lion hunter. Val Kilmer is brave,
but he's never done this, and yes, and he hires
the lion hunter and they're going out together, and the
Kilmer character says, well, you know, are you Are you scared?
And he went, oh, I'm terrified. I said, well you
(18:08):
I'm paraphrasing, but you've done this a lot and he said,
everyone's different every single and and again it's raising a child,
it's a marriage. Every day is different. Every screenplay. I
think it was you Adora Welty said, every story tells
me how to write it, but it doesn't tell me
how to write the next one. And so where you know,
(18:30):
you're listening to that story as you tell it, it's
revealing itself to you. But when you sit down your
novice again and should be I think, wow.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You know it was Luther that said, msik is the
handbeaten to theology. I think you could just as easily
take film or just art in general as a handbeaten
to theology. In other words, you know, there's a place
for art. And I think the Church understood this many
years ago, and we seemed to drift away from it.
(19:03):
And when you would think of a Christian you would
think it's going to be a B film, a cheesy film.
I think a lot has changed, and a lot of
the films that are coming up right now were mutual
friends of John Irwin, and I think John's really done
some amazing work and he has incredible project he's working
on in the future called The House of David that's
going to be with Amazonists. You know, it's going to
(19:24):
be big, and he's looking at the story, how to
tell the story on a big scale, but you know,
connecting the audience to David, who's such a colorful character.
But we did a film together called Jesus Revolution, which
is based on my life, and I feel I've seen
this happen Randy. I've seen how like I can preach
sermons all day long, but a movie, it disarms a
(19:48):
person because they relate to a character, sort of like
the hero's journey. You know, here I relate to this person.
I'm rooting for this person in a way, I feel
like I am this person. And maybe their heart is
more open than even their mind at first, but then
as you move along, now their mind is open to
what it is you're convened. I feel that art music
to some degree as well, and you're also a musician,
(20:10):
can disarm a person emotionally. They'll open up a little
bit and now you can get the message in there.
So it's like how do you find that fine line
of of not compromising art so it just becomes preaching,
though there's nothing wrong with preaching, but it has its place.
How do you take art and actually convey a message
(20:32):
with power in it and do both together?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
For me, and I hope this doesn't sound like a
kind of Yoda type of answer. For me, it begins
and ends with authenticity. It's like when someone is preaching
to me, whether we're talking about in church or politics
or or any time, but they're they're preaching what they
(20:59):
want me to believe, but what they do themselves do
not believe. It stinks and it doesn't feel right in someplace,
no matter how good it sounds. So a big thing
for me is that I'm telling a story that is
true for me, that moves me, that surprises me. Jane
(21:22):
Austen said, an ending that does not surprise the writer
will not surprise the reader. And I can tell you
at the end of Braveheart, when I was writing the
axes falling toward William Wallas's neck, I knew we couldn't
show the audience that, and I stopped at that point
and thought, well, what would he do at this moment?
The last fraction of a second of his life? What
(21:44):
would you do? And I thought, oh, he knows his
friends were there, he would look to them. So I typed,
in the last moment of his life, William Wullit's turned
to look at his friends. And it was not until
that instant that I knew that she was there too,
that his life was their way. And I wept. I
sat there and I wept. And that was one of
those experiences like, Okay, here I am alone in my
(22:06):
office weeping writing this story. Is this self indulgent iss
all the things that you get into it. I gave
the script to the studio executive, Rebecca Pollack, who's Sydney
Pollack's daughter and one of the great filmmakers will Less,
and she called me and said, well, we traditionally we
make copies and we send the copies to the different
(22:29):
department heads, but the assistants I'll read them first. And
she said, all the assistants in the company are sitting
at their desk, cryme and okay, so maybe so.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
It has to hit you, then it will hit others.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, And I wonder about that when you're when you're
a pastor, when you're really leading and there got to
be times when all of the things that are going
on in your life and all the people that you're
taking care of are so complex and difficult, But you're
in your delivering a message to many many people. How
(23:04):
do you? How do you in that?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
It's the same principle. You know, John writes, these things
that we have seen and heard, we declare unto you
that you me have fellowship with God. So it starts
with we've seen this, and we've heard this, and we
know this is true, right, and I've heard it said.
It can't happen through you until it first happens to you,
so for you know, yes, So it is. It is authenticity.
(23:29):
And when I speak, I try to keep it real
and honest and admit my shortcomings and flaws, but talk
about how something has impacted me and is impacting me.
And I think people connect to that. I think especially
young people today, they're looking for authenticity. And of course
the Church, you know, we haven't always done a great
job with this, and we have our hypocrites and we
(23:51):
have our flaws. But the way I look at it
is it's the only organization Jesus ever started. He said,
the gates of hell will not prevail against it. He
loves his church. I think as Christians we should love
the church too and find our place in it. Then,
you know, but it does just start with truth and authenticity.
(24:12):
You are working on arguably maybe what could be the
most important movie of recent history, and that is a
sequel to The Passion. The Passion rock the World. There's
no denying that fact. I remember when I was invited
by Mel Gibson to see an early version of it,
and even before all the CG was done, and not
(24:33):
that it had a lot of CG, but certain things
were not done yet. Then I remember there was a
people were questioning why is it in Aramaic, and they
were pushing back, and I felt what Mill did by
having it in Aramaic was you felt like you got
in a time machine and went back, and so it
really felt like you were there. Yes, and of course
(24:54):
powerful performances. Jim Cabizel is Jesus and the whole cast
was fantastic. But you know, there were to me there
were connections to Braveheart just the way he filmed certain things.
I like that the night scenes and Brave Heart and
the night scenes and as it opened and Getseminett that
I love the way Mel films and it was almost
at times like a painting. You're looking at a painting.
(25:15):
Certain scenes were just wow. But this movie impacted people
all around the globe. I know personally of people that
came to Christ watching this movie, but audiences that would
have never set foot at a church watched it. Some
out of anger, but they just felt they had to
watch it. And now there's a movie about the resurrection
(25:36):
of Jesus and you're writing the screenplay. Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I'm working on it with Mel. Yeah. I wrote the
original screenplay, and I'm certain that he had thought of
doing it in other times. But we were having dinner
one night and I said, you know, as powerful as
the Passion has been, there's an even more powerful story,
(26:00):
and we need to do that. The big thing to
me is the assertion that the rest Direction is real, historical,
physical I believe that totally. I also know that there
are mysteries about it, and that some of his followers
would see him and wouldn't recognize him at first, and
(26:20):
you ask yourself what's going on in it? And that's intriguing.
So I'm even going on based on what we've worked on.
I'm writing what I'm calling a novel because there's material
that's not all of everything in the story is in
the New Testament. It's implicit and just like say the Passion,
(26:41):
the New Testament doesn't say Satan was in the Garden
of Guessemone, but of course we would naturally believe that
Satan was there, as he was at war with Jesus.
But Jesus going into Hell itself to try to save
the souls there. Those are the profound spiritual issues, and
(27:02):
I do believe the movie will be one of them.
Is the mount everest of story?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Has the screen Is it done? Is the screenplay done?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
You're still working on it, still working on it, but
you're still working it out. At every stage, even when
you get down to you you're editing, you have to
ask yourself what is this really about? And one of
my disciplines is what's the elevator speech? You know, what
would you say if you had if you had sixty seconds?
Here's what this is. One of the things I really
(27:35):
love about now is he is as honest. He's more
honest about his flaws than any any of his critics
are about his flaws. And he's aware of his vulnerability.
In the first thing he said to me, when I said,
we really need to do the resurrection, he said, we
have to be sure of our spirits. This can't be
(27:56):
about the money. It can't be about our egos. It
can't be about vindication or our payback to our critics
or any of that. And God bless you, that is
a beautiful thing to say. A key component for me
about the resurrection story. I want to know more of
why he's on the cross. I want to know how
(28:17):
I got there anyway, Well, we all know that. No,
actually we don't all know that, and the and we
want to know what you think, and we want to like,
what what do you use a filmmaker want to say
to the audience of this is why this was happening.
So my traditional version of the story, and the one
I'm writing in the novel version, is that you've got Peter.
(28:42):
You start with the Jesus's death on the cross, and
Peter's absolutely wretched experience, and that is he is just
eaten up with guilt. He goes back in his memories
to meeting Jesus for the first time. John the Baptist
love that and how Jesus called those disciples. And here's
(29:04):
I want to try a thought out on and say,
you tell me how you feel about this. A revelation
for me about this is there is a proof of
the resurrection. You know, people will say, well, it's preposterous
and I can't NTI write your British thinker would say,
if you don't think it's preposterous, you're missing the point.
It blows away all of your conceptions. We all know,
(29:28):
every human being would say, oh, Jesus was a brilliant teacher.
You know, whether they don't. They may not like Christians,
they may don't like church, and maybe they have had
a bad experience. But here's the thing. We would have
never heard his name or heard one thing he said
except for one event, the resurrection. It's crucifixion. If that
(29:49):
had been the end, it was over his disciples. They
didn't expect it.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
And you know, the disciples on the Ams wrote he
joined them, and he, you know, says why are you
so sad? Well, I mean you heard about the things
of Jesus Nazareth and then Jesus says, well what things?
So now they're telling Jesus about Jesus. Yeah, and he
listens and they say, you know, he was crucified, and
(30:16):
it's been three days since this happened, and we hoped
he would have been the Messiah or the one to deliver.
Is your whole past tense. So they were They had
no idea that they were talking to the risen Savior
until he made himself known to them. They break bread,
and all of a sudden, like to your point, like
why didn't they know? I don't know why they didn't
(30:37):
recognize him, because he said to his disciples that fair period,
it is I it's not another It's not like he
was translucent. It's not like he floated. He was physical,
risen Jesus with the marks of the crucifixion in his
hands and feet, still but yet recognizable, but yet not
always recognizable, yet appearing in a room without using the door.
(31:00):
So there's all these interesting little twists and turns on it.
But they weren't expecting it. And the way that they
all pretty much went to die the death of a martyr,
with the exception of John the Beloved who has banished
at the island of Papos. If it wasn't true, one
of them would have said, it's not true. We made
this up. I'm on my deathbed. Why do I want
(31:22):
to perpetuate this myth? But none of them said that
because they couldn't deny what they had seen and experienced. Yes,
now you are going on a tour of sorts, right,
or doing shows like a one man show. Yes, which
just talking with you, I know it's going to be
fantastic here, so interesting, and you have so much to
stay and you've done so much in your life. Tell
(31:44):
us about your show. I think it's living the brave
heart life.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yes. During the pandemic, I got not only restless, but
then I got offended at people being kept from each other.
I think we need you know, Zim's wonderful invention and
all of that, but you know FaceTime and there's nothing
like being with us people. And uh and I like
(32:10):
in my everyday life. I really learned this. I think
when my mother was was getting older and was in
a nursing home, and i'd go visit her, and I
realized that all these old people sitting around, no one
ever touched them. And I would hug my mother, and
I would see the look on her friend's faces, and
I would go around and hug them too, that this
(32:31):
is important. We need we need each other and and
I and I also have been frustrated with the state
of the movie business when I felt it people weren't
trying to make the movie the audience really wanted to
see they were. There were other other agenda driving this thing.
(32:56):
And I just said I was going to do a
live show and use clips from my movies and stories
about how I came to write those, like the story
about that prayer and songs that I've written because I
started life as a singer songwriter, and weave it all
together into an experience to try to get people to
viscerally not just it's not a lecture, it's it's not
(33:19):
not even so much information. It's the too experience within
each of us, the warrior inside that did Screams for Freedom.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Is there a book coming out along with this as well?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes, well I've got I've got a book Living the
Brave Heart Life that I wrote sometime back.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
In So how does one live the brave heart life?
Do you have to paint half your face blue?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
It's a really effective thing. And and and I'll say
this honestly, there is a physical component to it. There
was so much in my In my childhood, I was
in church for hours and hours an hour, and I
know we have we have a really different background, but
(34:02):
so it's fascinating that the God bring us both to
the same place. Yes, that I set for oh maybe
twenty hours a week in church. Wow, it was not
unusual first to have. We had two a day tent
revivals in boy Scouts were at church, and yeah Little
League was at church and all of that. But it's
(34:25):
easy just to think of the faith as elsewhere, which
is one of the I mean, it's in heaven, That's
where God's glory is and to not feel it so
much here. And I loved when I read C. S.
Lewis said, I think it was in his book The
Great Divorce, but he said, everyone who goes to heaven
will believe Heaven began when they were born on earth,
(34:47):
and everyone who goes to hell will believe that hell
began when they were born on earth. Like, this world
is a beautiful place. This world is a reflection of Heaven,
and we are each other reflections of God. And I
find that there's a physical component me to feel closer
to God, like when I put on a kilt, I'm
(35:10):
taking my family in a few weeks to Scotland for
the gathering of the Walyses. And you put on a
kilt and you stand up taller and you feel more energy.
And you when you when you square your shoulders and
you you face that, when you look at danger instead
of look away, when you when you accept your flaws,
(35:34):
and you you you look at issues like forgiveness, and
you think, how can I be asking for forgiveness if
I am not forgiving myself. Those are physical things, not
just ethereal, disembodied things. So for me, living the Brave
(35:55):
Heart life has to do with what we can control
right here, which is what we do every day, how
we take care of ourselves, how we take care of others.
When you know, some years ago, right after Braveheart, I
got some friends together and we started Hollywood for Habitat
for Humanity and having to do with the work of
(36:18):
a whole lot of other people besides me. They're the
ones that carried all the water. But that little affiliate,
the Greater Los Angeles, run by an incredible young woman
named Aaron Rank, went from a minuscule little affiliate to
the most influential one in all of the world. Wow,
(36:38):
And to me that the big thing was to get
your hands dirty and your heart clean. Like that, take
a physical take a step, a physical step that goes
with the with the spiritual step.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
That's great. When did you make a actual commitment to
Christ that was more than just a child maybe listening
to your grandmother and being moved by the stories she
told you to I am now embraced Christ as my
savior and Lord, and I'm going to follow.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Him this morning. And yes, yes I'm a different person
each day, and each day I have to do it again.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I I don't have any recollect I mean I was baptized,
you know, total immersion Baptist Church and Memphis when I
was you know, eleven or twelve. And there again, like
I love the physical thing of baptism. Yes, I think
it's I think it's really important, right. But I I
(37:45):
never remember a time when I didn't see myself as
a Christian. But but I had plenty of times of doubt.
And I have plenty of times when I say, I
know what the right way is. That's not the problem. Yeah,
it's doing doing that that's and so and and even fun.
(38:08):
You know, when I was marveling to a friend of mine.
As much as I've read the Bible in my life,
and then I'm thinking, this thing still surprises me. I really,
you say, you watch Braveheart and you see something new.
It's I think. I think a story lasts because it
is alive, and it's alive because it's in touch with
(38:31):
what is eternally true.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And so what my my current understanding is one of
the Bible is fresh to me is that each time
I read it, I'm being changed. So the next time
I read it, a new Randy is reading it.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Wow, and great statement, Oh Randy. It's been a real
pleasure talking to you now, so many amazing things that
you've shared with us. And I just pray and hope
that you keep doing what you're doing because you are
making a difference and impacting people. And and thank you
for taking this time to talk a little bit about
your life and your thoughts and how you tick. And
(39:12):
I've been very inspired by it. So thanks again,
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.