What happens when art, film, faith, and real-life transformation collide? In this inspiring episode, filmmaker Andy Erwin sits down with pastor Greg Laurie for a candid conversation about the intersection of creativity, storytelling, and spiritual revival.
Greg Laurie—whose own life inspired the hit film "Jesus Revolution"—shares never-before-heard stories behind the making of the movie, his early love for the arts, and how testimony and cinematic storytelling can open hearts to life-changing truth. They explore the crucial role of authentic narrative, why emotion matters in both sermons and screenplays, and how film can be the "opening hook" that invites deeper engagement with the gospel.
Highlights include:
- The unforgettable moment Greg Laurie guided 50,000 people in the Lord’s Prayer for a pivotal movie scene, revealing how spontaneous acts of faith become cinematic gold.
- A behind-the-scenes look at how true stories are adapted for film—with all their messiness and miracles—and why embracing artistic license can help reach a new generation.
- Greg Laurie's moving reflections on mentorship from Billy Graham and the importance of humility, authenticity, and community in a life of faith and public leadership.
- Candid discussion about the new wave of baptisms and spiritual awakening sparked by the Jesus Revolution film, pointing to a surprising, ongoing revival in today's culture.
From poignant childhood memories to powerful lessons on integrity, loss, and the unchanging message of the Gospel, this episode is a masterclass on the power of story to connect, heal, and transform.
Don’t miss this heartfelt conversation filled with wisdom, humor, and hope. Subscribe now for more behind-the-scenes stories and real-life inspiration from the storytellers shaping our world.
CHAPTERS:00:00 We've Been Disney-fied: Chasing "Happily Ever After"
00:43 How the Jesus Revolution Movie Began Over a Burger
03:28 The Church and Film: From Skepticism to Embracing Storytelling
04:13 Childhood Escapes: Drawing, Art, and a Letter from Schulz
06:26 Movies That Shaped Me: From Disney to The Godfather
08:58 Storytelling as Evangelism: Hooks, Emotions, and Lasting Impact
10:40 The Gospel Hidden in Zombie Movies: “Warm Bodies” Analogy
13:07 Testimonies as Powerful Evangelistic Tools
16:01 Life Imitates Art: Baptism Movement Sparked by Film
17:55 From Laugh to Faith: An Irish Influencer's Movie Conversion
21:07 Why Gen Z Is Hungry for Spiritual Awakening
24:20 Behind-the-Scenes Memories Filming Jesus Revolution
28:28 Meeting Billy Graham: Letters, Hats, and Humility Lessons
34:05 Billy Graham’s Secret Sauce: Fame, Friendship, and Roast Beef
39:10 Grief, Authenticity, and the Value of Friendship in Ministry
44:40 Behind the Scenes of “Imagine 2”: Confronting Broken Happily Ever Afters
48:34 Desert Island Films: Greg Laurie’s Movie Favorites Revealed
Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Life audio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We've been Disneyfied a lot of times as a society
that we expect that your life builds to a happily
ever after and then the story stops and your life
is perfect. And I think that the thing that we're
longing for as humans is heaven. That's not this world.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So today it's treat to sit down with a good friend.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I've got pastor Greglorie from Harvest, got to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
With the storytellers.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you, Thank you for having me. Got some good
coffee here, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know, you and my brother been close for a while,
and then you and I have gotten close over the years.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
How did you and John first meet? Like, how did
our worlds collide?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, that's good question. Well, your brother was obsessed with
this time magazine cover Jesus Revolution, and he was talking
to a friend of mine and he says, yeah, want
to make a movie about this magazine cover, about this story.
I need to talk to people that were there. My
friend said, well, you need to meet Greg Glory. He
was there, and so we sat down in a restaurant.
(01:16):
As I recall it, it's a three hour meal I
think we eat hamburgers, and we talked about that cover
and I just basically told him my story and he
said he wanted to make a movie out of it. Great,
so I told him what I knew. And then It's
funny because shortly after that, I came across the story
that Steve McQueen had become a Christian. I wonder, is
(01:37):
that even a true story? And I googled it and
I found a couple of articles, and I found the
name of his pastor, and we tracked his pastor down
and so then I got this idea out of the blue,
long before Jesus Revolution came to be a movie. Hey, John,
I had this idea of doing a movie in the
life of Steve McQueen converting to Christ. He goes, let's
(01:58):
do it. He committed right on the spot. So we
did that entire project together and then Jesus Revolution came later.
But when he came to me with the first draft
of the script, I was really surprised, as see, he
had built it largely around my story and the story
of my wife, and also obviously of Chuck and Lonnie.
So it was a long process, but it started with
(02:19):
a conversation where well, you know, actually I have to
go back a little bit because the first thing he
asked me to do was get fifty thousand people to
say the Lord's Prayer out loud.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
That's right for Woodlaw.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, I forgot that part, and so that part I
forgot that too. I just meant him. He goes, can
I ask you a favor? And he'd like, tell you
twirls with the hair he does. I don't have any
hair to trow, but here I have to ask you
a favor, like, could you get fifty thousand people to
do the Lord's prayer? Because we have this scene in
Woodland with the people do the Lord's Prayer, but we
need real people to do it. So I just went
(02:52):
out at our crusade. I didn't explain it was a
scene for a film. I just said, let's just say
the Lord's Prayer to each other. We put it on
the screen so we don't have the same translation. Huh.
It was a beautiful moment people plot of They loved it,
and I said, you're in a movie now, wow. Because
I didn't want to, you know, tell them what it
was for until we did it. And so that ended
(03:12):
up in the movie, but then ultimately the Jesus Revolution
film came to be and somebo it started with the
Conversation number a magazine.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, well, you know, the thing that I like about
about you is you're kind of a unicorn when it
comes to pastors because a lot of times, you know,
and it's and it's changed over time, but you know,
there was a there was a period of time where
a lot of you know, people within the church were
nervous about the idea of movies. You know, I think
it was probably you know, from the nineteen sixties, early
(03:44):
sixties through you know, the Passion of the Christ and
maybe a little bit after that that you know, you
try to explain that, hey, we want to do movies,
and it was kind of like, well, that's kind of
the devil's turf. But you're a pastor that you you're
an evangelist. You love your church, you love you know,
what you believe, but you also really love the arts
(04:04):
and you really, you know, walking through your office, there's
just so much art nostalgia from the over the years
of art that you love. And you were kind of
an artist before you were an evangelists because you started
with your drawings and your comics and different things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
What is it that drew you to the arts? What
is it that you love about the arts?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think for me, originally as a little boy, it
was a way to escape. Of course, in Jesus Revolution,
there are scenes of a young Greg sitting in a
bar drawing, well, he waits for his mother, And that
was my childhood. It was a you know, this is
before obviously, iPads and iPhones and all the electronics, you know.
So I would draw little cartoon adventures and I would
(04:46):
kind of escape into them, little characters I invented. And
I started this very young. And I always loved art,
and I was a huge fan of all things Disney
and also Charles Schultz, and I started writing him letters.
I'm just a kid. I started writing Schultz letters, Hey,
here's my artwork. What do you think of it? Amazingly,
he would write back, he was never critical of my work,
(05:08):
is always complimentary. And then I'd say, could I get
a you know, an autograph drawing of something with Peanuts?
And he would send it to me. And I said,
can I get an original strip of the Peanuts cartoon?
And he sent it to me and I lost it today,
it would have been worth thousands of dollars because it
was sent to me by Schultz himself. Wow, but I had,
(05:30):
you know, I just had this sense that I was
going to do something was going to happen with my life.
And some would call it, you know, false bravado, but
I think it was. You know, the Bible says God
has placed eternity in our hearts, and I think that
even as a young boy, before I was a Christian,
I had a sense of calling and there was a
(05:52):
connection to Jesus. Even as a young boy, you know,
because I was living with my grandparents because my mom married,
a divorce running around, you know, living in Levita Loca.
I stayed with my grandparents and they had a port
of Jesus singing on the wall and I would just
sit and stare at it as a little boy, and
I was just fascinated by Jesus. And when I would
(06:13):
go see movies like Ben Herb, which deeply moved me
as a young person, especially the scenes of Christ. You know,
there was this connection. But I've always loved movies. They
were a form of escape for me as a kid.
I loved animated films. I watched every John Wayne film
ever made, even all the Elvis movies, which were horrible,
(06:33):
but I watched all of those, all the James Bond movies.
Certain movies kind of stuck with me over the years.
I love West Side Story. I love the sound of music.
I don't even like to admit that because you have
to almost turn your men card it.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It's a good movie.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, there's something about it. I really love. But then,
as you know, going forward, you know, movies like Brave Heart,
The Godfather, The Patriot. So I like those big, you know,
movies of the guy with everything against them, overcoming the
odds and fighting his way back, kind of the hero's journey,
you know, story which originates with the Bible, of course,
(07:12):
So you know there it's it's interesting. I'm just drawing
to certain and I've always loved film and I've always
loved art. So my son Jonathan was speaking, he's a
pastor now, but he said, you know what, while my
friends were only allowed to watch veggietails and listen to
Christian music, I would watch The Simpsons with my dad
and we'd listen to the Beatles and the Doors on
(07:32):
the way to school. So you know, I kind of
a great child that I actually took that as a
compliment because I thought, well, he turned out. Okay, he's
a pastor looking at him. But I wanted to kind
of prepare for the real world and help him to
appreciate art and visual things. And and you know, for
years the Church dominated it. I mean, just go look
(07:52):
at the work of Michelangelo.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Renaissance.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, and you see the impact of it. And then
for some reason we pulled away. But I think there's
a renaissance. And I think that Christian film is not
just trying to keep pace. I think in many ways
we're leading the way now because we know how to
tell And when I say we, I mean a certain
group of people. I don't think all Christian films are great,
(08:16):
but I think what you're doing. I think what your
brother is doing, oh, what Dallas Jenkins is doing and
some others is change the game. And it's brought these
stories to life for a lot of people. And you know,
and it's a place to begin. I know people will
like critique like maybe what Dallas does because well, that's
not exactly as it is in the Bible. End. The
(08:37):
same with John Ire when well, how's of David, but
I'm willing to cut some slack because he's telling the
story and it's a point of entrigue for people who've
never heard these stories before. And as long as you
get the arc of the story right and the emphasis
and focus of the story. You know, the Bible's on
a movie script. It's literally history, but to bring it
(09:00):
to an audience and to move them, there's certain elements
that you know well that need to accomplished. So anyway,
I've just always loved it, and I still love it.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
That's I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And that's why You've become such a dear friend and
ally in this because and I think maybe it goes
back to you know, your heart as an evangelist is
that idea of there's different parts of.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Storytelling that are necessary.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And there's the opening hook that you tell when you
go out to connect with the crowd, and you usually
go out and I was with you at Angel Stadium
on this last one, and you know, packed house, five
thousand people waiting to get in outside, and when you
got in, you start with a very connected human story,
personal experience, and that story hooks the crowd in and
(09:47):
emotionally they let their defenses down.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Now then you preach like biblical truth.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And I think for us as filmmakers why the product
was cheesy for so long is we felt like we
had to be all of it. And I think for
John and I and I think Dallas has gotten that
vision and others, is the idea that we're there to
plant the seed. We're there to kind of be that
opening hook that allows preachers to come in in the church,
to come in and tell the rest of the story.
(10:14):
And so I think there's something about filmmaking that it's
emotional medium. And it's funny that you would say that
that was in you have exploring stories and being intrigued
by stories before you knew Christ, because I do think
it is a universally human desire to understand stories. And
I was with the filmmaker named Jonathan Levine that he's
a great filmmaker and we're backstage in an event, and
(10:36):
I said, well, it comes from the human soul, and
every story either is about the absence of God or
the desire to understand redemption of God. And he's like,
try me, like, I don't believe that he's not because
he's not a Christian, And I said, well, he did
a movie called Warm Bodies and it's a zombie movie.
It's a zombie mash up comedy. And I said, well,
let me tell you your story. Warm Bodies. It's about
(10:56):
these people that are dead. They don't know that they're dead.
And one of these zombies interacts with a real life
person that gives them unconditional love and in that moment
that his heart starts beating again. And then he begins
to share what he just learned with the other zombies
and they start coming from death to life.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Wow. And I was like, that's called the gospel.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And he was like, he's like, my mind is blowing
so and it's been interesting to see as over the years.
You know, the mechanism changes over time, but the truth
does not change. God's word, the gospel, the simplicity of Jesus,
you know, sacrifice for our sins and raised from the dead,
like that doesn't change over the years. As you have
(11:37):
done your ministry, how did you morph into seeing the
power of the opportunity for film?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, you know, I think one of the most powerful
tools we have in our evangelistic toolbox is our testimony.
It's our story of how we came to faith. The
apostle Paul was a brilliant or a tour He was
a great intellect, but so often when he started his message,
it said, let me tell you about the Timas on
the Damascus Road hunting down Christians. You know what happened
(12:04):
to him. And so I find that when I speak,
you know, as a preacher, people have preconceived notions of preachers,
and they're usually not good. And so I try to
connect on a human level and tell people about how
I came to believe what I believe. At the Crusade
you attended, I told a story of when I was
a little boy, back to my grandmother's house after they'd
(12:25):
go to bed. And it's funny because I remember my
childhood in vignettes, like scenes from films. Sometimes they can't
remember the timeline. I don't remember what year this happened
and what year that happened, but they're like little scenes.
So my grandmother would take her teeth up, put them
literally in the glass of water, which is traumatizing for kid.
Kind of weary, So I'd go into my room, I'd
pull the covers over my head, and I would talk
(12:48):
to an imaginary character named mister Nobody, and I would
tell them what I was thinking, what I was afraid of.
And so my point was, one day I realized, mister
nobody had a name, and it was Jesus. So I'm
starting with this story that people can relate to, going
back to even childhood. So instead of saying, you know,
start immediately with scripture, listen, I'm going to get there
(13:09):
because the power is not in my story. The power
is in scripture. But the story prepares the heart and
it makes a human connection. So even the apostle Paul
and Mars Hill, you know, he made a cultural connection
to his audience. He said, you know, I've been walking
around your city and I see, oh, you know, have
all these altars erected to various gods. And they came
(13:30):
across one to the Unknown God. Because the Athenians they
had more gods there than people, and they worshiped everything
and everyone. But in case they missed one, they had
an altar to the unknown God. I want to talk
to you about the unknown God. So he's making a
cultural connection. And as your own poets have said, in
him we live and move and have our being. That's
(13:51):
not a scripture. You're quoting a secular source. So sometimes
when I'm ramping up to my message, I'll say, even
people in hollywoods will say the same thing, Like Jim
Carrey said not long ago, I wish everyone could be
rich and famous and realize it's not what you think
it would be. Lose paraphrase. So I'll show that even
these iconic people you might look up to see this.
(14:13):
But then I ultimately land on the scripture because that's
where the power is. And then the aural authority is
in the story of the death and resurrection of Christ,
and then you know, and then tell people how to
come into a relationship with him. But the power. You know,
I am kind of like an artist who became a preacher,
and so I still think artistically. I still, you know,
(14:35):
I like the aesthetic of something. I care a lot
about the way things look and the way they sound
as well as the content. It's you know, but ultimately
content is king. But I want to present it in
the most attractive packaging I can.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I love that, And that's really that methodology originates with
Jesus because he did two different things. He told parables
and then he taught truth, and so he would tell
a story that was great masterclass storytelling that he would
hook people in emotionally. It wasn't about quoting scripture, it
(15:12):
wasn't about any of that. It was just telling a story.
And then that parable would be pointing towards truth. But
it would engage people emostly. But then the true seekers
would come to him and say what did that mean exactly?
And then he would sit down like, let me tell
you the rest. And so it's two pieces of the
storytelling that I think that you're talking about there, and
I think that's the power of film. And that's where
(15:32):
I think the key was really unlocked for a lot
of us as filmmakers, where we began to say, oh,
this is our part of the equation. We're the parables.
And then but the church is never replaced. The church
is always God's instrument for his work here on earth.
And so the idea is to give the church a
tool to then go tell great truth.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And it's a beautiful tool. And on behalf of the
churches out there, impastors out there, thank you for giving
us a tool like that, because it is a great
way to reach people. And the reality is many people
will go into a movie theater who wouldn't even consider
darkening the doorway of a church. But like with the
success of the Jesus Revolution film, a literal baptism movement
(16:17):
came as a result of it that was not happening
before it.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Watch.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I mean, you know, so we often say that art
imitates life. Well, in this case, life was imitating art
imitating life because people not only wanted to be baptized,
they wanted to be baptized specifically at Pirate's Cove, which
was on an easy place to shoot. And we had
very limited time. And the whole thing if people would
realize how little time we had, the sun was setting
(16:45):
and and so John says, your brother says to me,
go talk to Jonathan and tell him how to do
the sinner's prayer. Okay. So I'm sitting there with Jonathan
place your place, Lonnie Frisbee, also Jesus and the Chosen.
He goes, just tell me what you say when you
pray with people. They said, it's not the same every time.
Just say it, Okay. I say something like, Lord Jesus,
(17:07):
I know I'm a sinner. And he would repeat it repeats,
say it again, and say it again, say it again.
I said, like, you know, ten times he goes, ohkah,
I got it. Then if you watch a scene, it's
so real feeling is it doesn't feel like acting. But
there was, you know, and literally the sun was setting
and we couldn't shoot the next day. If you didn't
get it, you lost it. And it was a perfect moment.
(17:30):
And we heard stories of people accepting Christ. Like let
me give you an example. I was in Germany recently
speaking at an evangelist conference with the Biligram Evangelistic Association.
I met a young influencer named Jed, an Irish guy
lives in Dublin. He was like sponsored by a bunch
of booze companies to promote their product. And he was
(17:52):
this young, cool kid and he said to a friend,
you want to go see this movie Jesus Revolution for
a laugh. So they went down to their cinema as
they call it, watched it. He says, I found myself
in tears. I was show keing up. I didn't want
to look at my friend who was also in tears,
and so he came out of there and what does
he do. He goes to a local church. Here's the
(18:14):
gospel comes to Christ. So it's a perfect example of
what you're saying, how would I reach Jed. Would Jenniver
hear one of my sermons somewhere? Maybe he would, But
he went into a movie theater. His heart was open,
he was disarmed, and then he went to a church
and heard the gospel.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
So I think that's the amazing thing to watch, is like,
and it also allows you to have confidence in the
power of the gospel. Yeah, because it's like you know,
once that seed is planted, it sometimes it gets choked
out by weeds, sometimes it gets statched by the enemy.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
But then sometimes it finds.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Fertile soils and one on a flour basically basically, and it's.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And in the middle of that God.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Once it takes root, then that person begins to seek out,
like I need to know the rest of the story.
That's right, And so you know, time after time, like
there was a story from I can only imagine where
this man was looking through all those CDs back when
they had Christian bookstores in a Christian bookstore, and he
was looking through all the music and one of the
workers came up to him and said, can I help you?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
What are you looking for?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
You?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
He said, I don't know what I'm looking for. I
just saw this movie.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I can only imagine, and I'm looking for this music
because I can't stop thinking about what I saw.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
And this bookstore attendant said, do you know, do you
know Jesus?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
He's like, no, That's why I'm looking for the music,
and he walks him through the gospel and the guy
bows his head in the middle of a bookstore and
gives us life to Christ. It's that seed that finds
good soil. You know, you were talking about the baptisms
at Pirates Code, like I was astounded by the numbers.
We were talking about it yesterday, Like you guys did
a couple of them that harvest led that he had
(19:50):
probably a total of eight nine thousand, you know, over
the two times eight nine thousand baptisms.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yes, and then another organization.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Did the same thing that did inspired by the film,
I might inspired by the film, and so we just
connected to the Jesus movement, which, ye, if you connect
it with the Jesus Movement, the original source material to Now,
I mean you're talking probably what thirty thousand baptism.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think that'd be accurate. Yeah, I mean, honestly, more
people have been baptized in recent days than We're baptized
back in the heyday of the Jesus movement.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So this is not a small thing. And this is
just one of the phenomenal things we're seeing right now.
And you know, as our film came out, there was
this like awakening on the college campuses. Well it's almost
like we orchestrated it. We didn't orchestrate it. This is
just when our movie happened to come out. And in fact,
our movie came out later than it was supposed to
(20:44):
come out, but it was God's timing and God was
doing to work here. And then there's the movie comes
out and we hear stories that people leaving the theater
and doing spontaneous baptisms like one in a fountain in
a mall. I heard another about kids that went down
like it. One in the morning, pirates go and they're
baptizing each other. Oh, well that this is exciting, you know.
(21:06):
So and now today we're seeing the other other amazing things.
I've seen a building of momentum, especially among gen Z
and especially among gen Z young men. Something is happening,
and I would say it is a form of revival.
You know, will it become the next great spiritual awakening.
I don't know, but you know, Billy Sunday, the great evangelist,
(21:30):
there's one asked, do you think revivals, you know, are
really that important or valuable? He goes, well, what good
is a bath? It's going to do you some good,
you know. So it's any version of it where there's
an awakening and people are coming to life spiritually, coming
to Christ.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm for what do you think the hunger is right now?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Because, especially with young people right now, especially young men,
what's the hunger for?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
You know, a spiritual awakening? Where's that coming from right now?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Well, you have a generation of young people, many of
who have been raising single parent households. You have a
generation of young people who have not had fathers. You
have a genera which, by the way, this is my
childhood lived a few years earlier. You have a generation
of young people raised with every electronic gadget out there
(22:19):
opening up a world to them that showing them things
they don't need to see, distracting them in some ways,
almost remapping their brains. You have an epidemic level of
abortion of people stolen from this generation that would have
been there. Because one thing I've seen with gen Z
is they describe themselves as the loneliest generation. Like compared
(22:42):
to Baby Boomers, a much higher percentage of Gen Z
kids are lonely. Well, they don't have dads, they're missing
many others of their generation. It's called reaping what you sew.
But that's the bad news. Here's the good news. So
they're different than the millennial generation, and they're different than
Gen X, and Gen X is different than the Boomers,
(23:04):
every generation, and it's kind of a reaction to the
earlier generation. So the Boomers, you know, we're post World
War two and our parents, you know, we're the greatest generation. Well,
we're going to be more in touch with their feelings
and we're going to be this and that we did
what we did. And then you have the generations that react.
And now you have a generation that they're saying, you've
(23:24):
told us there is no God, or you've not modeled
for us anything resembling a traditional trad wife or you know,
traditional values. Now those things are suddenly appealing to us.
And so certain individuals like Jordan Peterson very significant voice
calling young men to be responsible. Certainly Charlie Kirk very
(23:49):
important voice and very tragically murdered and It's like they
lost their big brother. Jordan could have been their dad,
and Charlie was their big brother, telling them, you know,
be responsible, get a job, get married, go to church,
have children. I mean, these are biblical values. So I
think that you know, you've created a thirsty generation and
(24:12):
if we're not there as the church with clear answers,
we're going to miss an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Well said, you know, the Jesus Revolution movie being a
part of that. What other memories were special specifically to
you in the making of that film. What were a
few of the moments that stood out for you.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, there were a couple of flashback moments as we
recreated scenes from my childhood. One was on my high
school campus, which was in Newport Beach, and we found
a school in Alabama, of all places, that looked remarkably
like my school campus, and so they recreated this scene.
Of course, you know, the extras are in wardrobes, so
(24:53):
they looked like people from that time. Jonathan Roumy, he
did a brilliant job playing the role of Lonnie Frisbee,
and we spent long hours Jonathan and I talking what
was Lonnie Frisbee like? And I said, I've never anyone
quite like him. He'd walk into a room, it was
like kind of lit the room up. He was quite
an individual anyway. He so captured that. And there's this
(25:14):
one scene where Jonathan is speaking and he says, Jesus says,
you're either for me or against me, and Joel Courtney,
who plays Greg, is standing there and Jonathan makes eye
contact with him, and then you see Joel's reactions like, well,
you know, I was like, I went back in time.
That was pretty awesome. But now, literally, in my real story,
(25:35):
that's when I got saved. That's when I became a Christian.
But your brother came and said, yeah, you know, I
want to do this baptism scene and could I have
you get saved there? I go, well, as long as
I get saved, it's okay. So we changed it a
little and that's, you know, support what happens in movies.
And your brother said, think of it like painting, not
(25:55):
a photograph. And once I kind of understood that the
compression of time, sometimes two people became one person. Like
for instance, there was a girl that kind of drew
me to the Christians meeting on the front lawe of
my high school, and I found her attractive, but she
wasn't a beauty queen, but she was. I believe it
(26:15):
was the Lord shining through her. So I was walking
across my campus and I saw her sitting there, so
I sat down close enough to kind of watch her,
and I eavesdropped on the Christians conversation and I heard
the gospel and I got saved. But that girl never
became my girlfriend. She just the Lord used her to
get my attention. And so but John made that girl
(26:37):
my wife, who I met later. You know, he says
you can't have two love interests in the same film.
So I say what you're saying. So I was learning.
I've been learning about how these things. You know, how
the sausage is made, so to speak. Fascinating process, but
once you realize when you see the end result, because
I watch you do what you do and your brother
and others, and I just think, you know, they know
(26:59):
what they're doing. So wait till it's done, and let
them finish it, and let them score it, and let
them edit it, let them cut things out that they
shot and then reshoot or do whatever they do. When
it's all done, then make an evaluation of it. And
I think then you go wow, and the way that
it can move you, and the scenes that that moved me.
(27:19):
That was one. The other one, of course, was the baptism.
Even though that did not happen to me in real life,
it was powerful in real life. And in fact, while
we were baptizing people in the film, there was one
character in the film that was baptized in character in wardrobe,
and then after the scene was shot, he came up
to me and said, I want to get baptized for real.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It's basic.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And I said, well, you need to be a Christian
and he goes tell me and what is it? And
I shared the Gospel with him. Then I baptized him.
So while they were baptizing people for the film, I'm
baptizing this guy for real. So they're all they stuff
and they look at it. So it was like once
again art was immit. Well you know we were. Our
(28:03):
life was imitating art imitating life.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Just amazing with that's and that was an incredible story
with other stories along the way, like you've had several
mentors in your life, you've had. It was amazing where
we left off in the movie with you, you know, Joe
Courtney playing you and then Chuck kind of igniting this
Riverside church that ended up becoming Harvest and kind of
(28:27):
giving you the keys of the building.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Literally.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
One of the other mentors that you've had in your
life is Billy Graham, And there's something really fascinating about
your relationship with Billy. How did you and Billy connect
and what did he mean in your journey?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well, that goes back to my childhood because back to
my grandparents' house again. When I lived with them, they
had two big lazy boy chairs facing the old television set.
We'd watch gon Smoke, Ponda ros you know, the Ponda Rosa,
the Bonanza and all those shows. But we would watch
Billy Graham preach. And I really liked Billy Graham. In fact,
(29:02):
he reminded me of Marshall Dylon. I think he looks
like Marshall Dylon. But so I had this connection going
back to my childhood. So after I became a Christian,
I went to a Billy Graham crusade and I listened
to him preach and I connected. I just I thought
kind of like, that's what I want to do when
I grow up. I was seventeen, but I thought, I
(29:22):
think this is what I should do. I connected with
him even more than with Chuck. As a pastor. I thought,
I want to be an evangelist. That sort of awakened
something in me. It's funny because we were just getting
our church started at that point. They wrote a little
article about me in the paper. So I put it
in a Manila envelope with a letter introducing myself to Billy.
(29:43):
And so I went forward at the invitation so I
could get a closer look at Billy. And as he
was leaving, there was the ushers are holding back people
that want to shake his hand. He's walking out, and
I handed an envelope to him. I think one of
his helpers took it, and I realized just as I
handed it off, I misspelled his last name. It was
not Grham, it was g r A M.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, just to the point, idiot, could you not?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
So?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
But I just said old Billy.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I met him briefly a little bit later in a hallway,
and then in nineteen eighty five he came to do
a crusade in Nnheim and our church was involved, and
I just started to become friends with his son, Franklin,
who was introduced to me by a mutual friend, Dennisagagenian,
who's a country singer, and so Billy said, thank you
(30:34):
for being friends with my son. Please help him in
any way you can. I said, yes, sir, So I
took it like that. That's when I need to do that.
And I always tried to be a friend of Franklin.
He's been a great friend to me over the years
as well. We've known each other for many years now.
But then as we got our crusades going, I got
(30:55):
to know Billy a little bit. Franklin would invite me
over to his parents' house and I would spend time
with Billy privately, having meals with him. And then he
was kind of me toward the end of his crusade
ministry and I was beginning my crusade ministry, and he
asked me if I would help him with the sermons.
So he would give me his his manuscripts, which are
(31:16):
funny because there was only like a paragraph and a
half on a page, and he turned the page because
the type was so big, and so I would go through.
I still have some, so I'd go through and I
would freshen his illustrations up because they would be kind
of maybe illustrations that would have worked, you know, twenty
years ago. So I would put current information, current things,
(31:38):
and sometimes I would explain things, like one time he
was preaching in Minneapolis. This is when Smashing Pumpkins was
the thing a band, you know. So I had a
quote from Smashing Pumpkins some song they had ratt in
a Cage, You're a ratten a cage, whatever it was,
and so I literally put in the quote as the
Smashing Pumpkins said, and I wrote a note in the
(31:58):
margin Billy Smashing Pumpkins as a band, you know, I
didn't want to think it's somebody slashing. And so he's
preaching and he's in the middle of a cement and
then smash him, Pumpkins said, and he quotes a lyric,
and when it was done, I was so excited. I
was more excited than if I had done it, because
anything I could do to help him was just my
(32:20):
greatest joy. One time, Billy came to me and said,
I lost my hat. Would you find me a hat?
So as a bull cap, I went to the local
mall and I went to a store I think it
was called Lids where they have like yeah, and I'm
like what hat would Billy want? And you know, I'm
praying God give me wisdom to pick the right hat
for Billy. And I found one, gave it to him.
Thank me. He wore it, and he had it in
(32:42):
the picture the next day because he thought the hat
disguised him. But he had such a familiar profile. He
could be on Mount Rushmore with his profile. And then
he lost it the next day. But he lost a
lot of hats. So but I spent a lot of
time with them privately, and I constantly was asking him
questions because I realized this is a privilege and I
(33:04):
need to learn what I could learn it. And I
felt like I was enrolled in the finest evangelistic university
on Earth with the greatest evangelist of all time. And
so I learned everything I could learn from him, watching him,
helping him to some degree, and just being around him,
because some things are caught and some things are taught.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
What things were the big tent pole things you caught
from billion?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Great question? Humility? That was real. He's the most famous
person I've ever met, and I've met some famous people,
but he carried his fame so well. He was very
accessible to people, I'd be with him where people would
approach him. We'd be eating like I remember once I
was in a red lobster restaurant with him. He loved
red lobster. And strangely he's doing a crusader that city.
(33:51):
He has his ball cap on so no one will
recognize him, but everyone does. And there was an atheist
convention happening at the same time, and people are recognizing Billy.
And our table was right by this walkway and people
would walk up to him. Atheist like Billy Graham. He
was so warm and such a great representative of Christ.
(34:12):
Here's an example of Billy's secret sauce. I was with
him in Portland, Oregon, which, as you know, is a
very liberal city. It was almost a revival like night.
Huge a number of people came to Christ. It rained
very hard that night, and so we came to the car.
We got in it. Franklin was writing Shotgun. Now excuse me,
(34:34):
I was shotgun and Billy was in the back seat
with Franklin, and so I turned around to him as
a driveway. I said, Billy, that was a wonderful message tonight,
and he said, well, it's just gospel. Turn bacha around
I know it's just gospel. Let's try to compliment him. Okay.
Then thought of a point that he made. I said,
turn becha around, Billy. I loved that point when you
(34:56):
said Christ can resensitize your conscience. And he said, well,
he can't turn back around. Okay, I get it. So
we go back to the hotel and Billy disappears for
a few moments, comes out in his pajamas and his
dress shoes. I don't think he brought his slippers with them.
And someone had given us roast beef sandwiches to eat
(35:17):
that were warm when we got them hours before another cold,
and we sat around eight sandwiches. He was with friends,
telling old stories, laughing, and I thought, this is a secret,
not taking yourself seriously too serious. So you take your
message very seriously, You do your job. You're done with
your job. Now you just return to normalcy. And I
(35:39):
think that sometimes, you know, it can happen to preachers,
It can happen to musicians, It can happen to people
that have a little taste that fame goes to their
head and they turn to all kinds of other things
to kind of keep them on that high. They had
maybe at the big concert of this or that, and
Billy just returned back to normalcy, and he was the
(35:59):
most godly man I ever met. He was even more
impressive privately than he was publicly, and think goll impress
that he was publicly. But he was really just that
guy you hoped he would be. Now I've met some
that weren't that guy you hoped they would be, but
he was big time and that made a huge impression
on me.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
That's fascinating. I love it speaking of being the real
thing behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And you'll probably squirre them at this because the same
way Billy avoided the compliments, you do as well. But
I'd like to think that my brother and I know
you really well and over the years, you know, I've
met a lot of people that I admire what they say,
but when you meet him behind the scenes, it doesn't
measure up. And I can vouch every bit for your
(36:49):
character that it's the same for you behind the scenes
as you're describing.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
With Billy, that.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
You have a high level of integrity, You don't take
yourself too seriously, and what you see is what you get,
and there's no smoking guns, there's no red flags and
I've been around a lot of public you know, pastors
or musicians, and if things where are there are a
lot of red flags. And we all have our flaws,
but you know, there's just different things where you're like, Okay,
something's not right there. Maintaining that level of integrity for
(37:17):
the amount of years you've had in a public ministry setting,
what has allowed you to maintain your integrity? What has
kept your heart safe over the years.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, you know, start with my wife. You know, we've
been married over fifty years, and she tells me the truth.
You know, my wife, she'll always you know, be an
evaluation of things, positive and negative. I also have a
lot of friends that they've had for a long time.
I mentioned Franklin Graham, a lot of other friends. We
get together. We're not impressed with each other. We're just
(37:50):
friends and if we you know, and sometimes we'll kid
each other, sometimes openly mock each other, which I don't
think is necessarily a bad thing. And I love to mock.
I have to admit it's maybe my love language.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
You're really good at it.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
If I mock people means I like them, you know, so.
But I think that you have to be around people
that will tell you the truth and you and also
around people where you can you know, bury your heart.
You know, after our son died, I turned to friends
who I could talk to honestly and process grief because
(38:25):
they think that you know, you one things that well,
you're a preacher, you'll have all the answers well when
it was all said and done. When our son died,
I was a father who lost a son. And you know, I,
on so many occasions have been the pastor up there
trying to find the right words to comfort the family
sitting in those front rows. And then one day I'm
the grieving father in the front row. Pastor Chuck is
(38:47):
speaking at my son's service, and that's very humbling and
you are dependent on God to get through it. But
then you find people that I could talk to and say, look,
I'm just really struggling right now and this is hard
for me. And they would say things that I've said
to others, but you know, they just sometimes you know,
you need to hear it yourself or on Saul Said
(39:09):
and Done. Just because God's maybe given you a calling
to do a certain thing, You're still a human being
that needs God and you need to be dependent on God,
and you need to walk humbly before God. And I
think as now I'm you know, toward the end of
my race, not the beginning anymore. You know, I want
these last laps to be good ones, and I want
(39:30):
to finish well. I love the story of Caleb and
the Bible. Yeah, you know, him and Joshua went in
with the other ten spies and scope things out and
came back and Caleb and Joshua gave the minority report, Hey,
it's awesome, let's go. God will give it to us.
The other time we're like, ah, the people are giant, No,
we can't go. And so you know, they didn't go
(39:50):
in unfortunately. But so later fast forward, you know, Joshua's
leading everything and Caleb is eighty five years old. He says,
I'm as strong today as I was on the day
that the Lord called me, and he says, give me
this mountain. I can see him raised up as boney old. Yeah,
five year older, give me this mountain. And then he
gives his secret, for I've wholly followed the Lord, my God.
(40:13):
So I think everything comes from your own relationship with God.
What she needs to be cultivated and maintained and you know,
as Paul said, a farmer has to first be a
partaker of the fruits or that whichever see from the
Lord I've delivered under you. It has to happen to
you before it can go through you. And I think
(40:34):
when it's happening to you, when it goes through you,
there will be a ring of authenticity, because like when
I give illustrations or talk about my own life, I'm
usually not the hero of my stories. I show stories
where I messed up or made a mistake, or you know,
somebody else had it right, and not to appear humble,
(40:56):
but just just so you know, I don't like to
hear preachers make themselves heroes of their stories. It just
puts me off. And so I always fell Billy was
that way. Billy never like you couldn't get Billy to
talk about himself. Yeah, I'd say, Billy, tell me about this,
and then he would always deflect. And I think his
deflection was just really an insight into his character. So
(41:20):
I don't know, because it's like, how did you how
have you maintained your humility? Yes, I'm writing in your
book Humility and how I found it. So you know,
if you say you found humility. It's not a very
humble thing to say, but you know, I would just
to summarize, you know, walk closely with God, maintain your
personal relationship with the Lord. Number two, have friends that
(41:40):
are honest with you, have an accountability to people. Let
people speak into your life you Thirtadly, don't take yourself
too seriously, take what you do very seriously. And fourthly,
maybe have some good mentors in your life that you
can look up to that can speak truth to you.
Problem is, as I've gotten older, now everyone's I'm older
than everybody. But you know, the funny thing, Andy, is
(42:03):
I think when you're younger, you need to be around
older people, but I think when you're older, you need
to be around younger papers. And I'm inspired by younger
people and they help me. Now as i'm I'm kind
of in the place where Billy was, you know, where
he's the older guy, and I'm saying to the younger people,
help me stay connected to this culture you know that
(42:24):
I'm in. And so that's something that's very important as well.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I love that, you know, it's one of the secrets
that we do on film to get some of the
performances that we do as I love. You know, Usually
the actors I have the most difficult time are the
people that have had a breakout moment. They're right there
in the middle and they're not young or old anymore.
The ones I have the most successful with situations with
are the ones that are either just starting or it's
(42:51):
the old guard and the secrets. The secret sauce is
if you can put them in the moment together. And
so one of the most special scenes in the original
I can imagine was that breakfast table scene between Bart
and his dad Arthur played by Dennis Quaid and John
Michael Finley. It was his first film, and what happens
in this scenario is the young guard John Michael in
(43:12):
that case, they look across the table and they see
somebody that knows their craft.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
They know why they do what they do, they know
who they are, and.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
They know how to They know their instrument, they know
how to how to how to play their instrument, and
they kind of learn technique. What the old guard sees
is that first love, that original passion, and they're like, oh,
that's what it felt like at the beginning, and it
helps them to fall in love with what they do.
All over again, and when they learn from each other.
There's something really magic about that, that handoff that I
(43:41):
guess does mirror life, but that is something that we do.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Speaking of Magine, you got a chance to see it yesterday.
So the sequel I can only imagine too.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, it's it's wonderful to enter into that world again.
It's a great world you created in the first film,
but with a lot of new twists and turns and
new characters as well. And to see Bart progressing in
his life now he's had the big hit with I
can only imagine that's sort of where it left off.
And you know, even though I don't want to give
(44:10):
away the plot of your film, but even though he's
reconciled with his father played by Dennis Quaid that you
just mentioned, you know, he's having his own struggles as
a father with his son and that comes up beautifully
in the film. And then he introduced another character into
the story, Tim Timmins, played incredibly by my love Vintimilia,
(44:31):
and I loved him on this as us. I just
he was my favorite character, and he's different in this film.
It's Tim's kind of a quirky character at first, not
off putting, but it's kind of an odd ball. But
then you know, he grows on you, and then you
realize a struggle he's going through. And there's some moving scenes.
I mean, I don't choke up in movies, okay, but
(44:53):
I choked up multiple times. And there's one powerful scene
that I really loved, and it's there's a famous scene
and imagine where Bart is finally singing this song and
then he kind of sees in a dreamlike way, or
imagines perhaps his father Dennis Quaid standing there and a
plotting for him. But the cool thing is this version
(45:15):
of his father is kind of the Denis Quaid movie
star look. He looks like Dennis smiling.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Where the Arthur character, you know, he's dealing with cancer,
he's weather struggling, and so anyway, he sees his father
and it's a moving scene. And then imagine two. There's
this scene where Bart's son sings a song and really
is discovering his gift. And then Bart himself almost like
(45:40):
his dad, and the first film sees it and I
made the connection. I brought it up to you.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
That was intentional fact.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, So there were a number of scenes that moved
me a lot, and I think what I love about
what you're doing is you're telling these stories honestly. Your
characters are not presented as perfect. They're flawed characters, but
you see how their faith integrates into their life and
how it changes and transforms them. And I think anybody
dealing with hardship, dealing with struggles, dealing with cancer, dealing
(46:12):
with loss will be really helped and encouraged by this film.
So it's right up there and its power and its
effect with your first film. But it is different. But
it's a beautiful continuation of it, and I think it's
going to be very well received.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Thanks great. It means a lot.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I went into it with a lot of fear and
trembling because going back to something you know it needed
to be, like, we need to take it somewhere new.
But when Bart told me the story, it hit home
so much because I think a lot of we've been
Disneyfied a lot of times as a society that we
expect that your life builds to a happily ever after
(46:51):
and then the story stops and you know in your
life is perfect. And I think that the thing that
we're longing for as humans is heaven. But that's not
this that's not this world. And so with this one,
there's a lot of things that happen in Bart's life.
Is a dad that break his happily ever after? And
then it asked the question of like, where is God
(47:14):
after the happily ever after? What happens when it breaks?
And I think that a lot of times, at least
from what I observe, sometimes pain and suffering and struggle
is what keeps a lot of people from coming to Christ.
It also brings people to Christ, but a lot of
times it's that question of where is a good God
when they're suffering? And this character of Tim Timmans comes
into the equation and begins to kind of present some
(47:37):
answers to Bart in a way it's beautiful than Milo
did a great job portraying it. Yeah, and it builds
to this this song, even if it's really what story's about.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
But I think, you know that's that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Well, there's one scene where Bart is sort of feeling
sorry for himself. He's been self absorbed, and then Tim Timmins,
you know, tells him I have cancer. Some Bart's like,
whoa you know, and he's kind of been mistreating this
guy and Tim has written this song, Bart he hasn't
even taken the time to listen to the song, you know,
and he realizes, Wow, you know, look at what this
(48:09):
guy's going through and and kind of his optimism and
and the way he is as a person. So there's
and that's a powerful song, even if, right, even if,
even if and and you know, at the end of
the film, you really bring that song and a fact,
I mean that shot you did at Red Rocks, what
an awesome venue, and you shot it the way he
shot it was incredible. Made me want to go visit
(48:31):
that place.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
But it's it's a special place.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah, this is people are going to love this film.
You better just be prepared to maybe choke up a
little bit, so it's like you've been given fair warning,
but also to have tears of joy and be really
uplifted by this film. This film will uplift people, and
and it will uplift people, especially if they're struggling with children,
(48:58):
or with sickness or with loss. It will it will
give them a wonderful perspective and be an inspiring thing
to watch. And you know, you go to so many
films they just leave you cold. I think people are
kind of sick of all the special effects and you
know in card chases and crashes and explosions and superheroes.
(49:18):
I mean, they want to hear and see a powerful story, right,
and it is the power. This story is a powerful one.
So I highly recommend that.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Means a lot. Man.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I think the goal is to tell your story that
allows you to tell more stories. Yes, And the exciting
thing is is we're going to be telling more stories together.
So you guys stay tuned. You know, we like to
end on a lighter note. And so you know, I
know that you're a movie buff. You know, we talk
movies all the time. One of my favorite stories with you,
it was early on when we were just getting to
(49:50):
know each other. I went with you and my brother
one night to go watch a movie late at night
and we went to the theater with only the three
of us were in the theater I believe one or
two other people, and we walked in. There's this giant
mural of all the icons from movie hits cinema street
on this wall. And I pride myself on being pretty
(50:10):
pretty good on movie history, but you pointed the wall.
You're like, You're like name all those people. And so
there's probably fifty of them up. Yes, so I name
them all. I point to them all, and I get
to the end, and I'm like, I'm doing pretty good.
I get to the end and I pointed the last
guys like Errol Flynn, and You're like this, tyrun Power.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
I knew it, you didn't, ah, And so I've resented
that ever since.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
But for you, I know that you like you know.
I know that you like mafia kind of mobster kind
of movies. Like you're a James Cagney type guy, you know.
And and so if we were to name you know,
your top Greg Glory's top five Desert Island films, oh boy,
that you would say that these are the films that
(50:50):
are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Oh so hard well, because the list changes. But I
get I identify a movie as a top film if
I'm flipping the channels on a TV and it comes on,
I stay and watch it, even though I've seen it
many times. Okay, Okay, so this is kind of my
if he maybe list at the moment. I love the
film Tombstone.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Tombstone is a great film.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I just love everything about it. I love the quote
I'm your huncle Berry. Yes, why Johnna Ringo, you look
like someone just walked over your grave. You know, just
so just brilliant. Everybody was brilliant. I forgot you were there. Yeah,
it's just a great film. I love that film. I
would probably put probably Pastorshu and picked Us. I love
(51:37):
The Godfather. It's really not about crime. It's about a
Family's got a family, you know, but but it is.
It's just a perfect film.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
It is.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
And I do love Braveheart. I love Brave Heart. I
love everything about that film. I'd have to probably admit
i'd throw sound of music in there, maybe just for a.
Speaker 3 (51:55):
Little like the Top three.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Earn you that one? So yes, yes, yes, you know.
One I just watched recently. I thought, I love this
film is Chariots of Fire.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Charoits of Fire my my desire, Like Charots of Fire
was the last time a story of faith won an Oscar. Yeah,
and you know, it was kind of the end of
an era because, like you know, stories of faith always
were in the mix for things like that would have been
her and all those type of things. Charots Fire was
the last one. And there's something so beautiful about that story.
(52:26):
I love the line that he said, when he's considering
whether you should be a missionary or run, and he said,
you know, I also know that God made me fast
and when I run, I feel his pleasure on my back.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Like that's like, that's a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
There's two men between him and Ben Cross was so
great as.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
Everyone was grating in that film, and and it was
a just fantastic film. And also I liked Glade Eat
the first one two was good, but Gladiator one was
just a brilliant film. So there's more I could add
to the list. So Mel Gibson's and made my list
a few times. Loved The Patriot. My list is getting
longer now. But a second and if I had to
(53:05):
pick an animated film, I'd probably throw Pinocchio in there.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
We just talked about that before real cameras, like Pinocchio
holds up.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
That is a beautiful, beautiful film. Yeah. I watched it
with my kids the other day. We sat down watched it.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Is my favorite Christian film is Jesus Revelish. Oh yeah,
but I'm not biased at all. I'm not biased at all.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, So those are a few.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Greg has been treatd to just sit down and kind
of have a conversation. You know, we absolutely love much
more than the partnership with you. We'd love you as
a friend and as a mentor. And I will say
that behind the scenes, you've always not just engaged with
us and seen the value of the art. You've helped
hold our feet to the fire and making sure we
(53:47):
don't compromise on truth. And so it's a partnership and
a friendship that we deeply value here at Kingdom and
it's a just privileged to have you on the Storytellers
my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Thanks man
Life audio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We've been Disneyfied a lot of times as a society
that we expect that your life builds to a happily
ever after and then the story stops and your life
is perfect. And I think that the thing that we're
longing for as humans is heaven. That's not this world.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So today it's treat to sit down with a good friend.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I've got pastor Greglorie from Harvest, got to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
With the storytellers.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you, Thank you for having me. Got some good
coffee here, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know, you and my brother been close for a while,
and then you and I have gotten close over the years.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
How did you and John first meet? Like, how did
our worlds collide?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, that's good question. Well, your brother was obsessed with
this time magazine cover Jesus Revolution, and he was talking
to a friend of mine and he says, yeah, want
to make a movie about this magazine cover, about this story.
I need to talk to people that were there. My
friend said, well, you need to meet Greg Glory. He
was there, and so we sat down in a restaurant.
(01:16):
As I recall it, it's a three hour meal I
think we eat hamburgers, and we talked about that cover
and I just basically told him my story and he
said he wanted to make a movie out of it. Great,
so I told him what I knew. And then It's
funny because shortly after that, I came across the story
that Steve McQueen had become a Christian. I wonder, is
(01:37):
that even a true story? And I googled it and
I found a couple of articles, and I found the
name of his pastor, and we tracked his pastor down
and so then I got this idea out of the blue,
long before Jesus Revolution came to be a movie. Hey, John,
I had this idea of doing a movie in the
life of Steve McQueen converting to Christ. He goes, let's
(01:58):
do it. He committed right on the spot. So we
did that entire project together and then Jesus Revolution came later.
But when he came to me with the first draft
of the script, I was really surprised, as see, he
had built it largely around my story and the story
of my wife, and also obviously of Chuck and Lonnie.
So it was a long process, but it started with
(02:19):
a conversation where well, you know, actually I have to
go back a little bit because the first thing he
asked me to do was get fifty thousand people to
say the Lord's Prayer out loud.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
That's right for Woodlaw.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, I forgot that part, and so that part I
forgot that too. I just meant him. He goes, can
I ask you a favor? And he'd like, tell you
twirls with the hair he does. I don't have any
hair to trow, but here I have to ask you
a favor, like, could you get fifty thousand people to
do the Lord's prayer? Because we have this scene in
Woodland with the people do the Lord's Prayer, but we
need real people to do it. So I just went
(02:52):
out at our crusade. I didn't explain it was a
scene for a film. I just said, let's just say
the Lord's Prayer to each other. We put it on
the screen so we don't have the same translation. Huh.
It was a beautiful moment people plot of They loved it,
and I said, you're in a movie now, wow. Because
I didn't want to, you know, tell them what it
was for until we did it. And so that ended
(03:12):
up in the movie, but then ultimately the Jesus Revolution
film came to be and somebo it started with the
Conversation number a magazine.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, well, you know, the thing that I like about
about you is you're kind of a unicorn when it
comes to pastors because a lot of times, you know,
and it's and it's changed over time, but you know,
there was a there was a period of time where
a lot of you know, people within the church were
nervous about the idea of movies. You know, I think
it was probably you know, from the nineteen sixties, early
(03:44):
sixties through you know, the Passion of the Christ and
maybe a little bit after that that you know, you
try to explain that, hey, we want to do movies,
and it was kind of like, well, that's kind of
the devil's turf. But you're a pastor that you you're
an evangelist. You love your church, you love you know,
what you believe, but you also really love the arts
(04:04):
and you really, you know, walking through your office, there's
just so much art nostalgia from the over the years
of art that you love. And you were kind of
an artist before you were an evangelists because you started
with your drawings and your comics and different things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
What is it that drew you to the arts? What
is it that you love about the arts?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think for me, originally as a little boy, it
was a way to escape. Of course, in Jesus Revolution,
there are scenes of a young Greg sitting in a
bar drawing, well, he waits for his mother, And that
was my childhood. It was a you know, this is
before obviously, iPads and iPhones and all the electronics, you know.
So I would draw little cartoon adventures and I would
(04:46):
kind of escape into them, little characters I invented. And
I started this very young. And I always loved art,
and I was a huge fan of all things Disney
and also Charles Schultz, and I started writing him letters.
I'm just a kid. I started writing Schultz letters, Hey,
here's my artwork. What do you think of it? Amazingly,
he would write back, he was never critical of my work,
(05:08):
is always complimentary. And then I'd say, could I get
a you know, an autograph drawing of something with Peanuts?
And he would send it to me. And I said,
can I get an original strip of the Peanuts cartoon?
And he sent it to me and I lost it today,
it would have been worth thousands of dollars because it
was sent to me by Schultz himself. Wow, but I had,
(05:30):
you know, I just had this sense that I was
going to do something was going to happen with my life.
And some would call it, you know, false bravado, but
I think it was. You know, the Bible says God
has placed eternity in our hearts, and I think that
even as a young boy, before I was a Christian,
I had a sense of calling and there was a
(05:52):
connection to Jesus. Even as a young boy, you know,
because I was living with my grandparents because my mom married,
a divorce running around, you know, living in Levita Loca.
I stayed with my grandparents and they had a port
of Jesus singing on the wall and I would just
sit and stare at it as a little boy, and
I was just fascinated by Jesus. And when I would
(06:13):
go see movies like Ben Herb, which deeply moved me
as a young person, especially the scenes of Christ. You know,
there was this connection. But I've always loved movies. They
were a form of escape for me as a kid.
I loved animated films. I watched every John Wayne film
ever made, even all the Elvis movies, which were horrible,
(06:33):
but I watched all of those, all the James Bond movies.
Certain movies kind of stuck with me over the years.
I love West Side Story. I love the sound of music.
I don't even like to admit that because you have
to almost turn your men card it.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It's a good movie.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, there's something about it. I really love. But then,
as you know, going forward, you know, movies like Brave Heart,
The Godfather, The Patriot. So I like those big, you know,
movies of the guy with everything against them, overcoming the
odds and fighting his way back, kind of the hero's journey,
you know, story which originates with the Bible, of course,
(07:12):
So you know there it's it's interesting. I'm just drawing
to certain and I've always loved film and I've always
loved art. So my son Jonathan was speaking, he's a
pastor now, but he said, you know what, while my
friends were only allowed to watch veggietails and listen to
Christian music, I would watch The Simpsons with my dad
and we'd listen to the Beatles and the Doors on
(07:32):
the way to school. So you know, I kind of
a great child that I actually took that as a
compliment because I thought, well, he turned out. Okay, he's
a pastor looking at him. But I wanted to kind
of prepare for the real world and help him to
appreciate art and visual things. And and you know, for
years the Church dominated it. I mean, just go look
(07:52):
at the work of Michelangelo.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Renaissance.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, and you see the impact of it. And then
for some reason we pulled away. But I think there's
a renaissance. And I think that Christian film is not
just trying to keep pace. I think in many ways
we're leading the way now because we know how to
tell And when I say we, I mean a certain
group of people. I don't think all Christian films are great,
(08:16):
but I think what you're doing. I think what your
brother is doing, oh, what Dallas Jenkins is doing and
some others is change the game. And it's brought these
stories to life for a lot of people. And you know,
and it's a place to begin. I know people will
like critique like maybe what Dallas does because well, that's
not exactly as it is in the Bible. End. The
(08:37):
same with John Ire when well, how's of David, but
I'm willing to cut some slack because he's telling the
story and it's a point of entrigue for people who've
never heard these stories before. And as long as you
get the arc of the story right and the emphasis
and focus of the story. You know, the Bible's on
a movie script. It's literally history, but to bring it
(09:00):
to an audience and to move them, there's certain elements
that you know well that need to accomplished. So anyway,
I've just always loved it, and I still love it.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
That's I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And that's why You've become such a dear friend and
ally in this because and I think maybe it goes
back to you know, your heart as an evangelist is
that idea of there's different parts of.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Storytelling that are necessary.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And there's the opening hook that you tell when you
go out to connect with the crowd, and you usually
go out and I was with you at Angel Stadium
on this last one, and you know, packed house, five
thousand people waiting to get in outside, and when you
got in, you start with a very connected human story,
personal experience, and that story hooks the crowd in and
(09:47):
emotionally they let their defenses down.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Now then you preach like biblical truth.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And I think for us as filmmakers why the product
was cheesy for so long is we felt like we
had to be all of it. And I think for
John and I and I think Dallas has gotten that
vision and others, is the idea that we're there to
plant the seed. We're there to kind of be that
opening hook that allows preachers to come in in the church,
to come in and tell the rest of the story.
(10:14):
And so I think there's something about filmmaking that it's
emotional medium. And it's funny that you would say that
that was in you have exploring stories and being intrigued
by stories before you knew Christ, because I do think
it is a universally human desire to understand stories. And
I was with the filmmaker named Jonathan Levine that he's
a great filmmaker and we're backstage in an event, and
(10:36):
I said, well, it comes from the human soul, and
every story either is about the absence of God or
the desire to understand redemption of God. And he's like,
try me, like, I don't believe that he's not because
he's not a Christian, And I said, well, he did
a movie called Warm Bodies and it's a zombie movie.
It's a zombie mash up comedy. And I said, well,
let me tell you your story. Warm Bodies. It's about
(10:56):
these people that are dead. They don't know that they're dead.
And one of these zombies interacts with a real life
person that gives them unconditional love and in that moment
that his heart starts beating again. And then he begins
to share what he just learned with the other zombies
and they start coming from death to life.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Wow. And I was like, that's called the gospel.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And he was like, he's like, my mind is blowing
so and it's been interesting to see as over the years.
You know, the mechanism changes over time, but the truth
does not change. God's word, the gospel, the simplicity of Jesus,
you know, sacrifice for our sins and raised from the dead,
like that doesn't change over the years. As you have
(11:37):
done your ministry, how did you morph into seeing the
power of the opportunity for film?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, you know, I think one of the most powerful
tools we have in our evangelistic toolbox is our testimony.
It's our story of how we came to faith. The
apostle Paul was a brilliant or a tour He was
a great intellect, but so often when he started his message,
it said, let me tell you about the Timas on
the Damascus Road hunting down Christians. You know what happened
(12:04):
to him. And so I find that when I speak,
you know, as a preacher, people have preconceived notions of preachers,
and they're usually not good. And so I try to
connect on a human level and tell people about how
I came to believe what I believe. At the Crusade
you attended, I told a story of when I was
a little boy, back to my grandmother's house after they'd
(12:25):
go to bed. And it's funny because I remember my
childhood in vignettes, like scenes from films. Sometimes they can't
remember the timeline. I don't remember what year this happened
and what year that happened, but they're like little scenes.
So my grandmother would take her teeth up, put them
literally in the glass of water, which is traumatizing for kid.
Kind of weary, So I'd go into my room, I'd
pull the covers over my head, and I would talk
(12:48):
to an imaginary character named mister Nobody, and I would
tell them what I was thinking, what I was afraid of.
And so my point was, one day I realized, mister
nobody had a name, and it was Jesus. So I'm
starting with this story that people can relate to, going
back to even childhood. So instead of saying, you know,
start immediately with scripture, listen, I'm going to get there
(13:09):
because the power is not in my story. The power
is in scripture. But the story prepares the heart and
it makes a human connection. So even the apostle Paul
and Mars Hill, you know, he made a cultural connection
to his audience. He said, you know, I've been walking
around your city and I see, oh, you know, have
all these altars erected to various gods. And they came
(13:30):
across one to the Unknown God. Because the Athenians they
had more gods there than people, and they worshiped everything
and everyone. But in case they missed one, they had
an altar to the unknown God. I want to talk
to you about the unknown God. So he's making a
cultural connection. And as your own poets have said, in
him we live and move and have our being. That's
(13:51):
not a scripture. You're quoting a secular source. So sometimes
when I'm ramping up to my message, I'll say, even
people in hollywoods will say the same thing, Like Jim
Carrey said not long ago, I wish everyone could be
rich and famous and realize it's not what you think
it would be. Lose paraphrase. So I'll show that even
these iconic people you might look up to see this.
(14:13):
But then I ultimately land on the scripture because that's
where the power is. And then the aural authority is
in the story of the death and resurrection of Christ,
and then you know, and then tell people how to
come into a relationship with him. But the power. You know,
I am kind of like an artist who became a preacher,
and so I still think artistically. I still, you know,
(14:35):
I like the aesthetic of something. I care a lot
about the way things look and the way they sound
as well as the content. It's you know, but ultimately
content is king. But I want to present it in
the most attractive packaging I can.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I love that, And that's really that methodology originates with
Jesus because he did two different things. He told parables
and then he taught truth, and so he would tell
a story that was great masterclass storytelling that he would
hook people in emotionally. It wasn't about quoting scripture, it
(15:12):
wasn't about any of that. It was just telling a story.
And then that parable would be pointing towards truth. But
it would engage people emostly. But then the true seekers
would come to him and say what did that mean exactly?
And then he would sit down like, let me tell
you the rest. And so it's two pieces of the
storytelling that I think that you're talking about there, and
I think that's the power of film. And that's where
(15:32):
I think the key was really unlocked for a lot
of us as filmmakers, where we began to say, oh,
this is our part of the equation. We're the parables.
And then but the church is never replaced. The church
is always God's instrument for his work here on earth.
And so the idea is to give the church a
tool to then go tell great truth.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And it's a beautiful tool. And on behalf of the
churches out there, impastors out there, thank you for giving
us a tool like that, because it is a great
way to reach people. And the reality is many people
will go into a movie theater who wouldn't even consider
darkening the doorway of a church. But like with the
success of the Jesus Revolution film, a literal baptism movement
(16:17):
came as a result of it that was not happening
before it.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Watch.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I mean, you know, so we often say that art
imitates life. Well, in this case, life was imitating art
imitating life because people not only wanted to be baptized,
they wanted to be baptized specifically at Pirate's Cove, which
was on an easy place to shoot. And we had
very limited time. And the whole thing if people would
realize how little time we had, the sun was setting
(16:45):
and and so John says, your brother says to me,
go talk to Jonathan and tell him how to do
the sinner's prayer. Okay. So I'm sitting there with Jonathan
place your place, Lonnie Frisbee, also Jesus and the Chosen.
He goes, just tell me what you say when you
pray with people. They said, it's not the same every time.
Just say it, Okay. I say something like, Lord Jesus,
(17:07):
I know I'm a sinner. And he would repeat it repeats,
say it again, and say it again, say it again.
I said, like, you know, ten times he goes, ohkah,
I got it. Then if you watch a scene, it's
so real feeling is it doesn't feel like acting. But
there was, you know, and literally the sun was setting
and we couldn't shoot the next day. If you didn't
get it, you lost it. And it was a perfect moment.
(17:30):
And we heard stories of people accepting Christ. Like let
me give you an example. I was in Germany recently
speaking at an evangelist conference with the Biligram Evangelistic Association.
I met a young influencer named Jed, an Irish guy
lives in Dublin. He was like sponsored by a bunch
of booze companies to promote their product. And he was
(17:52):
this young, cool kid and he said to a friend,
you want to go see this movie Jesus Revolution for
a laugh. So they went down to their cinema as
they call it, watched it. He says, I found myself
in tears. I was show keing up. I didn't want
to look at my friend who was also in tears,
and so he came out of there and what does
he do. He goes to a local church. Here's the
(18:14):
gospel comes to Christ. So it's a perfect example of
what you're saying, how would I reach Jed. Would Jenniver
hear one of my sermons somewhere? Maybe he would, But
he went into a movie theater. His heart was open,
he was disarmed, and then he went to a church
and heard the gospel.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
So I think that's the amazing thing to watch, is like,
and it also allows you to have confidence in the
power of the gospel. Yeah, because it's like you know,
once that seed is planted, it sometimes it gets choked
out by weeds, sometimes it gets statched by the enemy.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
But then sometimes it finds.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Fertile soils and one on a flour basically basically, and it's.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And in the middle of that God.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Once it takes root, then that person begins to seek out,
like I need to know the rest of the story.
That's right, And so you know, time after time, like
there was a story from I can only imagine where
this man was looking through all those CDs back when
they had Christian bookstores in a Christian bookstore, and he
was looking through all the music and one of the
workers came up to him and said, can I help you?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
What are you looking for?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
You?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
He said, I don't know what I'm looking for. I
just saw this movie.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I can only imagine, and I'm looking for this music
because I can't stop thinking about what I saw.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
And this bookstore attendant said, do you know, do you
know Jesus?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
He's like, no, That's why I'm looking for the music,
and he walks him through the gospel and the guy
bows his head in the middle of a bookstore and
gives us life to Christ. It's that seed that finds
good soil. You know, you were talking about the baptisms
at Pirates Code, like I was astounded by the numbers.
We were talking about it yesterday, Like you guys did
a couple of them that harvest led that he had
(19:50):
probably a total of eight nine thousand, you know, over
the two times eight nine thousand baptisms.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yes, and then another organization.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Did the same thing that did inspired by the film,
I might inspired by the film, and so we just
connected to the Jesus movement, which, ye, if you connect
it with the Jesus Movement, the original source material to Now,
I mean you're talking probably what thirty thousand baptism.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think that'd be accurate. Yeah, I mean, honestly, more
people have been baptized in recent days than We're baptized
back in the heyday of the Jesus movement.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So this is not a small thing. And this is
just one of the phenomenal things we're seeing right now.
And you know, as our film came out, there was
this like awakening on the college campuses. Well it's almost
like we orchestrated it. We didn't orchestrate it. This is
just when our movie happened to come out. And in fact,
our movie came out later than it was supposed to
(20:44):
come out, but it was God's timing and God was
doing to work here. And then there's the movie comes
out and we hear stories that people leaving the theater
and doing spontaneous baptisms like one in a fountain in
a mall. I heard another about kids that went down
like it. One in the morning, pirates go and they're
baptizing each other. Oh, well that this is exciting, you know.
(21:06):
So and now today we're seeing the other other amazing things.
I've seen a building of momentum, especially among gen Z
and especially among gen Z young men. Something is happening,
and I would say it is a form of revival.
You know, will it become the next great spiritual awakening.
I don't know, but you know, Billy Sunday, the great evangelist,
(21:30):
there's one asked, do you think revivals, you know, are
really that important or valuable? He goes, well, what good
is a bath? It's going to do you some good,
you know. So it's any version of it where there's
an awakening and people are coming to life spiritually, coming
to Christ.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm for what do you think the hunger is right now?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Because, especially with young people right now, especially young men,
what's the hunger for?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
You know, a spiritual awakening? Where's that coming from right now?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Well, you have a generation of young people, many of
who have been raising single parent households. You have a
generation of young people who have not had fathers. You
have a genera which, by the way, this is my
childhood lived a few years earlier. You have a generation
of young people raised with every electronic gadget out there
(22:19):
opening up a world to them that showing them things
they don't need to see, distracting them in some ways,
almost remapping their brains. You have an epidemic level of
abortion of people stolen from this generation that would have
been there. Because one thing I've seen with gen Z
is they describe themselves as the loneliest generation. Like compared
(22:42):
to Baby Boomers, a much higher percentage of Gen Z
kids are lonely. Well, they don't have dads, they're missing
many others of their generation. It's called reaping what you sew.
But that's the bad news. Here's the good news. So
they're different than the millennial generation, and they're different than
Gen X, and Gen X is different than the Boomers,
(23:04):
every generation, and it's kind of a reaction to the
earlier generation. So the Boomers, you know, we're post World
War two and our parents, you know, we're the greatest generation. Well,
we're going to be more in touch with their feelings
and we're going to be this and that we did
what we did. And then you have the generations that react.
And now you have a generation that they're saying, you've
(23:24):
told us there is no God, or you've not modeled
for us anything resembling a traditional trad wife or you know,
traditional values. Now those things are suddenly appealing to us.
And so certain individuals like Jordan Peterson very significant voice
calling young men to be responsible. Certainly Charlie Kirk very
(23:49):
important voice and very tragically murdered and It's like they
lost their big brother. Jordan could have been their dad,
and Charlie was their big brother, telling them, you know,
be responsible, get a job, get married, go to church,
have children. I mean, these are biblical values. So I
think that you know, you've created a thirsty generation and
(24:12):
if we're not there as the church with clear answers,
we're going to miss an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Well said, you know, the Jesus Revolution movie being a
part of that. What other memories were special specifically to
you in the making of that film. What were a
few of the moments that stood out for you.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, there were a couple of flashback moments as we
recreated scenes from my childhood. One was on my high
school campus, which was in Newport Beach, and we found
a school in Alabama, of all places, that looked remarkably
like my school campus, and so they recreated this scene.
Of course, you know, the extras are in wardrobes, so
(24:53):
they looked like people from that time. Jonathan Roumy, he
did a brilliant job playing the role of Lonnie Frisbee,
and we spent long hours Jonathan and I talking what
was Lonnie Frisbee like? And I said, I've never anyone
quite like him. He'd walk into a room, it was
like kind of lit the room up. He was quite
an individual anyway. He so captured that. And there's this
(25:14):
one scene where Jonathan is speaking and he says, Jesus says,
you're either for me or against me, and Joel Courtney,
who plays Greg, is standing there and Jonathan makes eye
contact with him, and then you see Joel's reactions like, well,
you know, I was like, I went back in time.
That was pretty awesome. But now, literally, in my real story,
(25:35):
that's when I got saved. That's when I became a Christian.
But your brother came and said, yeah, you know, I
want to do this baptism scene and could I have
you get saved there? I go, well, as long as
I get saved, it's okay. So we changed it a
little and that's, you know, support what happens in movies.
And your brother said, think of it like painting, not
(25:55):
a photograph. And once I kind of understood that the
compression of time, sometimes two people became one person. Like
for instance, there was a girl that kind of drew
me to the Christians meeting on the front lawe of
my high school, and I found her attractive, but she
wasn't a beauty queen, but she was. I believe it
(26:15):
was the Lord shining through her. So I was walking
across my campus and I saw her sitting there, so
I sat down close enough to kind of watch her,
and I eavesdropped on the Christians conversation and I heard
the gospel and I got saved. But that girl never
became my girlfriend. She just the Lord used her to
get my attention. And so but John made that girl
(26:37):
my wife, who I met later. You know, he says
you can't have two love interests in the same film.
So I say what you're saying. So I was learning.
I've been learning about how these things. You know, how
the sausage is made, so to speak. Fascinating process, but
once you realize when you see the end result, because
I watch you do what you do and your brother
and others, and I just think, you know, they know
(26:59):
what they're doing. So wait till it's done, and let
them finish it, and let them score it, and let
them edit it, let them cut things out that they
shot and then reshoot or do whatever they do. When
it's all done, then make an evaluation of it. And
I think then you go wow, and the way that
it can move you, and the scenes that that moved me.
(27:19):
That was one. The other one, of course, was the baptism.
Even though that did not happen to me in real life,
it was powerful in real life. And in fact, while
we were baptizing people in the film, there was one
character in the film that was baptized in character in wardrobe,
and then after the scene was shot, he came up
to me and said, I want to get baptized for real.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It's basic.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And I said, well, you need to be a Christian
and he goes tell me and what is it? And
I shared the Gospel with him. Then I baptized him.
So while they were baptizing people for the film, I'm
baptizing this guy for real. So they're all they stuff
and they look at it. So it was like once
again art was immit. Well you know we were. Our
(28:03):
life was imitating art imitating life.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Just amazing with that's and that was an incredible story
with other stories along the way, like you've had several
mentors in your life, you've had. It was amazing where
we left off in the movie with you, you know, Joe
Courtney playing you and then Chuck kind of igniting this
Riverside church that ended up becoming Harvest and kind of
(28:27):
giving you the keys of the building.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Literally.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
One of the other mentors that you've had in your
life is Billy Graham, And there's something really fascinating about
your relationship with Billy. How did you and Billy connect
and what did he mean in your journey?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well, that goes back to my childhood because back to
my grandparents' house again. When I lived with them, they
had two big lazy boy chairs facing the old television set.
We'd watch gon Smoke, Ponda ros you know, the Ponda Rosa,
the Bonanza and all those shows. But we would watch
Billy Graham preach. And I really liked Billy Graham. In fact,
(29:02):
he reminded me of Marshall Dylon. I think he looks
like Marshall Dylon. But so I had this connection going
back to my childhood. So after I became a Christian,
I went to a Billy Graham crusade and I listened
to him preach and I connected. I just I thought
kind of like, that's what I want to do when
I grow up. I was seventeen, but I thought, I
(29:22):
think this is what I should do. I connected with
him even more than with Chuck. As a pastor. I thought,
I want to be an evangelist. That sort of awakened
something in me. It's funny because we were just getting
our church started at that point. They wrote a little
article about me in the paper. So I put it
in a Manila envelope with a letter introducing myself to Billy.
(29:43):
And so I went forward at the invitation so I
could get a closer look at Billy. And as he
was leaving, there was the ushers are holding back people
that want to shake his hand. He's walking out, and
I handed an envelope to him. I think one of
his helpers took it, and I realized just as I
handed it off, I misspelled his last name. It was
not Grham, it was g r A M.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, just to the point, idiot, could you not?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
So?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
But I just said old Billy.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I met him briefly a little bit later in a hallway,
and then in nineteen eighty five he came to do
a crusade in Nnheim and our church was involved, and
I just started to become friends with his son, Franklin,
who was introduced to me by a mutual friend, Dennisagagenian,
who's a country singer, and so Billy said, thank you
(30:34):
for being friends with my son. Please help him in
any way you can. I said, yes, sir, So I
took it like that. That's when I need to do that.
And I always tried to be a friend of Franklin.
He's been a great friend to me over the years
as well. We've known each other for many years now.
But then as we got our crusades going, I got
(30:55):
to know Billy a little bit. Franklin would invite me
over to his parents' house and I would spend time
with Billy privately, having meals with him. And then he
was kind of me toward the end of his crusade
ministry and I was beginning my crusade ministry, and he
asked me if I would help him with the sermons.
So he would give me his his manuscripts, which are
(31:16):
funny because there was only like a paragraph and a
half on a page, and he turned the page because
the type was so big, and so I would go through.
I still have some, so I'd go through and I
would freshen his illustrations up because they would be kind
of maybe illustrations that would have worked, you know, twenty
years ago. So I would put current information, current things,
(31:38):
and sometimes I would explain things, like one time he
was preaching in Minneapolis. This is when Smashing Pumpkins was
the thing a band, you know. So I had a
quote from Smashing Pumpkins some song they had ratt in
a Cage, You're a ratten a cage, whatever it was,
and so I literally put in the quote as the
Smashing Pumpkins said, and I wrote a note in the
(31:58):
margin Billy Smashing Pumpkins as a band, you know, I
didn't want to think it's somebody slashing. And so he's
preaching and he's in the middle of a cement and
then smash him, Pumpkins said, and he quotes a lyric,
and when it was done, I was so excited. I
was more excited than if I had done it, because
anything I could do to help him was just my
(32:20):
greatest joy. One time, Billy came to me and said,
I lost my hat. Would you find me a hat?
So as a bull cap, I went to the local
mall and I went to a store I think it
was called Lids where they have like yeah, and I'm
like what hat would Billy want? And you know, I'm
praying God give me wisdom to pick the right hat
for Billy. And I found one, gave it to him.
Thank me. He wore it, and he had it in
(32:42):
the picture the next day because he thought the hat
disguised him. But he had such a familiar profile. He
could be on Mount Rushmore with his profile. And then
he lost it the next day. But he lost a
lot of hats. So but I spent a lot of
time with them privately, and I constantly was asking him
questions because I realized this is a privilege and I
(33:04):
need to learn what I could learn it. And I
felt like I was enrolled in the finest evangelistic university
on Earth with the greatest evangelist of all time. And
so I learned everything I could learn from him, watching him,
helping him to some degree, and just being around him,
because some things are caught and some things are taught.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
What things were the big tent pole things you caught
from billion?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Great question? Humility? That was real. He's the most famous
person I've ever met, and I've met some famous people,
but he carried his fame so well. He was very
accessible to people, I'd be with him where people would
approach him. We'd be eating like I remember once I
was in a red lobster restaurant with him. He loved
red lobster. And strangely he's doing a crusader that city.
(33:51):
He has his ball cap on so no one will
recognize him, but everyone does. And there was an atheist
convention happening at the same time, and people are recognizing Billy.
And our table was right by this walkway and people
would walk up to him. Atheist like Billy Graham. He
was so warm and such a great representative of Christ.
(34:12):
Here's an example of Billy's secret sauce. I was with
him in Portland, Oregon, which, as you know, is a
very liberal city. It was almost a revival like night.
Huge a number of people came to Christ. It rained
very hard that night, and so we came to the car.
We got in it. Franklin was writing Shotgun. Now excuse me,
(34:34):
I was shotgun and Billy was in the back seat
with Franklin, and so I turned around to him as
a driveway. I said, Billy, that was a wonderful message tonight,
and he said, well, it's just gospel. Turn bacha around
I know it's just gospel. Let's try to compliment him. Okay.
Then thought of a point that he made. I said,
turn becha around, Billy. I loved that point when you
(34:56):
said Christ can resensitize your conscience. And he said, well,
he can't turn back around. Okay, I get it. So
we go back to the hotel and Billy disappears for
a few moments, comes out in his pajamas and his
dress shoes. I don't think he brought his slippers with them.
And someone had given us roast beef sandwiches to eat
(35:17):
that were warm when we got them hours before another cold,
and we sat around eight sandwiches. He was with friends,
telling old stories, laughing, and I thought, this is a secret,
not taking yourself seriously too serious. So you take your
message very seriously, You do your job. You're done with
your job. Now you just return to normalcy. And I
(35:39):
think that sometimes, you know, it can happen to preachers,
It can happen to musicians, It can happen to people
that have a little taste that fame goes to their
head and they turn to all kinds of other things
to kind of keep them on that high. They had
maybe at the big concert of this or that, and
Billy just returned back to normalcy, and he was the
(35:59):
most godly man I ever met. He was even more
impressive privately than he was publicly, and think goll impress
that he was publicly. But he was really just that
guy you hoped he would be. Now I've met some
that weren't that guy you hoped they would be, but
he was big time and that made a huge impression
on me.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
That's fascinating. I love it speaking of being the real
thing behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And you'll probably squirre them at this because the same
way Billy avoided the compliments, you do as well. But
I'd like to think that my brother and I know
you really well and over the years, you know, I've
met a lot of people that I admire what they say,
but when you meet him behind the scenes, it doesn't
measure up. And I can vouch every bit for your
(36:49):
character that it's the same for you behind the scenes
as you're describing.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
With Billy, that.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
You have a high level of integrity, You don't take
yourself too seriously, and what you see is what you get,
and there's no smoking guns, there's no red flags and
I've been around a lot of public you know, pastors
or musicians, and if things where are there are a
lot of red flags. And we all have our flaws,
but you know, there's just different things where you're like, Okay,
something's not right there. Maintaining that level of integrity for
(37:17):
the amount of years you've had in a public ministry setting,
what has allowed you to maintain your integrity? What has
kept your heart safe over the years.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, you know, start with my wife. You know, we've
been married over fifty years, and she tells me the truth.
You know, my wife, she'll always you know, be an
evaluation of things, positive and negative. I also have a
lot of friends that they've had for a long time.
I mentioned Franklin Graham, a lot of other friends. We
get together. We're not impressed with each other. We're just
(37:50):
friends and if we you know, and sometimes we'll kid
each other, sometimes openly mock each other, which I don't
think is necessarily a bad thing. And I love to mock.
I have to admit it's maybe my love language.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
You're really good at it.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
If I mock people means I like them, you know, so.
But I think that you have to be around people
that will tell you the truth and you and also
around people where you can you know, bury your heart.
You know, after our son died, I turned to friends
who I could talk to honestly and process grief because
(38:25):
they think that you know, you one things that well,
you're a preacher, you'll have all the answers well when
it was all said and done. When our son died,
I was a father who lost a son. And you know, I,
on so many occasions have been the pastor up there
trying to find the right words to comfort the family
sitting in those front rows. And then one day I'm
the grieving father in the front row. Pastor Chuck is
(38:47):
speaking at my son's service, and that's very humbling and
you are dependent on God to get through it. But
then you find people that I could talk to and say, look,
I'm just really struggling right now and this is hard
for me. And they would say things that I've said
to others, but you know, they just sometimes you know,
you need to hear it yourself or on Saul Said
(39:09):
and Done. Just because God's maybe given you a calling
to do a certain thing, You're still a human being
that needs God and you need to be dependent on God,
and you need to walk humbly before God. And I
think as now I'm you know, toward the end of
my race, not the beginning anymore. You know, I want
these last laps to be good ones, and I want
(39:30):
to finish well. I love the story of Caleb and
the Bible. Yeah, you know, him and Joshua went in
with the other ten spies and scope things out and
came back and Caleb and Joshua gave the minority report, Hey,
it's awesome, let's go. God will give it to us.
The other time we're like, ah, the people are giant, No,
we can't go. And so you know, they didn't go
(39:50):
in unfortunately. But so later fast forward, you know, Joshua's
leading everything and Caleb is eighty five years old. He says,
I'm as strong today as I was on the day
that the Lord called me, and he says, give me
this mountain. I can see him raised up as boney old. Yeah,
five year older, give me this mountain. And then he
gives his secret, for I've wholly followed the Lord, my God.
(40:13):
So I think everything comes from your own relationship with God.
What she needs to be cultivated and maintained and you know,
as Paul said, a farmer has to first be a
partaker of the fruits or that whichever see from the
Lord I've delivered under you. It has to happen to
you before it can go through you. And I think
(40:34):
when it's happening to you, when it goes through you,
there will be a ring of authenticity, because like when
I give illustrations or talk about my own life, I'm
usually not the hero of my stories. I show stories
where I messed up or made a mistake, or you know,
somebody else had it right, and not to appear humble,
(40:56):
but just just so you know, I don't like to
hear preachers make themselves heroes of their stories. It just
puts me off. And so I always fell Billy was
that way. Billy never like you couldn't get Billy to
talk about himself. Yeah, I'd say, Billy, tell me about this,
and then he would always deflect. And I think his
deflection was just really an insight into his character. So
(41:20):
I don't know, because it's like, how did you how
have you maintained your humility? Yes, I'm writing in your
book Humility and how I found it. So you know,
if you say you found humility. It's not a very
humble thing to say, but you know, I would just
to summarize, you know, walk closely with God, maintain your
personal relationship with the Lord. Number two, have friends that
(41:40):
are honest with you, have an accountability to people. Let
people speak into your life you Thirtadly, don't take yourself
too seriously, take what you do very seriously. And fourthly,
maybe have some good mentors in your life that you
can look up to that can speak truth to you.
Problem is, as I've gotten older, now everyone's I'm older
than everybody. But you know, the funny thing, Andy, is
(42:03):
I think when you're younger, you need to be around
older people, but I think when you're older, you need
to be around younger papers. And I'm inspired by younger
people and they help me. Now as i'm I'm kind
of in the place where Billy was, you know, where
he's the older guy, and I'm saying to the younger people,
help me stay connected to this culture you know that
(42:24):
I'm in. And so that's something that's very important as well.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I love that, you know, it's one of the secrets
that we do on film to get some of the
performances that we do as I love. You know, Usually
the actors I have the most difficult time are the
people that have had a breakout moment. They're right there
in the middle and they're not young or old anymore.
The ones I have the most successful with situations with
are the ones that are either just starting or it's
(42:51):
the old guard and the secrets. The secret sauce is
if you can put them in the moment together. And
so one of the most special scenes in the original
I can imagine was that breakfast table scene between Bart
and his dad Arthur played by Dennis Quaid and John
Michael Finley. It was his first film, and what happens
in this scenario is the young guard John Michael in
(43:12):
that case, they look across the table and they see
somebody that knows their craft.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
They know why they do what they do, they know
who they are, and.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
They know how to They know their instrument, they know
how to how to how to play their instrument, and
they kind of learn technique. What the old guard sees
is that first love, that original passion, and they're like, oh,
that's what it felt like at the beginning, and it
helps them to fall in love with what they do.
All over again, and when they learn from each other.
There's something really magic about that, that handoff that I
(43:41):
guess does mirror life, but that is something that we do.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Speaking of Magine, you got a chance to see it yesterday.
So the sequel I can only imagine too.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, it's it's wonderful to enter into that world again.
It's a great world you created in the first film,
but with a lot of new twists and turns and
new characters as well. And to see Bart progressing in
his life now he's had the big hit with I
can only imagine that's sort of where it left off.
And you know, even though I don't want to give
(44:10):
away the plot of your film, but even though he's
reconciled with his father played by Dennis Quaid that you
just mentioned, you know, he's having his own struggles as
a father with his son and that comes up beautifully
in the film. And then he introduced another character into
the story, Tim Timmins, played incredibly by my love Vintimilia,
(44:31):
and I loved him on this as us. I just
he was my favorite character, and he's different in this film.
It's Tim's kind of a quirky character at first, not
off putting, but it's kind of an odd ball. But
then you know, he grows on you, and then you
realize a struggle he's going through. And there's some moving scenes.
I mean, I don't choke up in movies, okay, but
(44:53):
I choked up multiple times. And there's one powerful scene
that I really loved, and it's there's a famous scene
and imagine where Bart is finally singing this song and
then he kind of sees in a dreamlike way, or
imagines perhaps his father Dennis Quaid standing there and a
plotting for him. But the cool thing is this version
(45:15):
of his father is kind of the Denis Quaid movie
star look. He looks like Dennis smiling.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Where the Arthur character, you know, he's dealing with cancer,
he's weather struggling, and so anyway, he sees his father
and it's a moving scene. And then imagine two. There's
this scene where Bart's son sings a song and really
is discovering his gift. And then Bart himself almost like
(45:40):
his dad, and the first film sees it and I
made the connection. I brought it up to you.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
That was intentional fact.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, So there were a number of scenes that moved
me a lot, and I think what I love about
what you're doing is you're telling these stories honestly. Your
characters are not presented as perfect. They're flawed characters, but
you see how their faith integrates into their life and
how it changes and transforms them. And I think anybody
dealing with hardship, dealing with struggles, dealing with cancer, dealing
(46:12):
with loss will be really helped and encouraged by this film.
So it's right up there and its power and its
effect with your first film. But it is different. But
it's a beautiful continuation of it, and I think it's
going to be very well received.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Thanks great. It means a lot.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I went into it with a lot of fear and
trembling because going back to something you know it needed
to be, like, we need to take it somewhere new.
But when Bart told me the story, it hit home
so much because I think a lot of we've been
Disneyfied a lot of times as a society that we
expect that your life builds to a happily ever after
(46:51):
and then the story stops and you know in your
life is perfect. And I think that the thing that
we're longing for as humans is heaven. But that's not
this that's not this world. And so with this one,
there's a lot of things that happen in Bart's life.
Is a dad that break his happily ever after? And
then it asked the question of like, where is God
(47:14):
after the happily ever after? What happens when it breaks?
And I think that a lot of times, at least
from what I observe, sometimes pain and suffering and struggle
is what keeps a lot of people from coming to Christ.
It also brings people to Christ, but a lot of
times it's that question of where is a good God
when they're suffering? And this character of Tim Timmans comes
into the equation and begins to kind of present some
(47:37):
answers to Bart in a way it's beautiful than Milo
did a great job portraying it. Yeah, and it builds
to this this song, even if it's really what story's about.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
But I think, you know that's that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Well, there's one scene where Bart is sort of feeling
sorry for himself. He's been self absorbed, and then Tim Timmins,
you know, tells him I have cancer. Some Bart's like,
whoa you know, and he's kind of been mistreating this
guy and Tim has written this song, Bart he hasn't
even taken the time to listen to the song, you know,
and he realizes, Wow, you know, look at what this
(48:09):
guy's going through and and kind of his optimism and
and the way he is as a person. So there's
and that's a powerful song, even if, right, even if,
even if and and you know, at the end of
the film, you really bring that song and a fact,
I mean that shot you did at Red Rocks, what
an awesome venue, and you shot it the way he
shot it was incredible. Made me want to go visit
(48:31):
that place.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
But it's it's a special place.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah, this is people are going to love this film.
You better just be prepared to maybe choke up a
little bit, so it's like you've been given fair warning,
but also to have tears of joy and be really
uplifted by this film. This film will uplift people, and
and it will uplift people, especially if they're struggling with children,
(48:58):
or with sickness or with loss. It will it will
give them a wonderful perspective and be an inspiring thing
to watch. And you know, you go to so many
films they just leave you cold. I think people are
kind of sick of all the special effects and you
know in card chases and crashes and explosions and superheroes.
(49:18):
I mean, they want to hear and see a powerful story, right,
and it is the power. This story is a powerful one.
So I highly recommend that.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Means a lot. Man.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I think the goal is to tell your story that
allows you to tell more stories. Yes, And the exciting
thing is is we're going to be telling more stories together.
So you guys stay tuned. You know, we like to
end on a lighter note. And so you know, I
know that you're a movie buff. You know, we talk
movies all the time. One of my favorite stories with you,
it was early on when we were just getting to
(49:50):
know each other. I went with you and my brother
one night to go watch a movie late at night
and we went to the theater with only the three
of us were in the theater I believe one or
two other people, and we walked in. There's this giant
mural of all the icons from movie hits cinema street
on this wall. And I pride myself on being pretty
(50:10):
pretty good on movie history, but you pointed the wall.
You're like, You're like name all those people. And so
there's probably fifty of them up. Yes, so I name
them all. I point to them all, and I get
to the end, and I'm like, I'm doing pretty good.
I get to the end and I pointed the last
guys like Errol Flynn, and You're like this, tyrun Power.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
I knew it, you didn't, ah, And so I've resented
that ever since.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
But for you, I know that you like you know.
I know that you like mafia kind of mobster kind
of movies. Like you're a James Cagney type guy, you know.
And and so if we were to name you know,
your top Greg Glory's top five Desert Island films, oh boy,
that you would say that these are the films that
(50:50):
are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Oh so hard well, because the list changes. But I
get I identify a movie as a top film if
I'm flipping the channels on a TV and it comes on,
I stay and watch it, even though I've seen it
many times. Okay, Okay, so this is kind of my
if he maybe list at the moment. I love the
film Tombstone.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Tombstone is a great film.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I just love everything about it. I love the quote
I'm your huncle Berry. Yes, why Johnna Ringo, you look
like someone just walked over your grave. You know, just
so just brilliant. Everybody was brilliant. I forgot you were there. Yeah,
it's just a great film. I love that film. I
would probably put probably Pastorshu and picked Us. I love
(51:37):
The Godfather. It's really not about crime. It's about a
Family's got a family, you know, but but it is.
It's just a perfect film.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
It is.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
And I do love Braveheart. I love Brave Heart. I
love everything about that film. I'd have to probably admit
i'd throw sound of music in there, maybe just for a.
Speaker 3 (51:55):
Little like the Top three.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Earn you that one? So yes, yes, yes, you know.
One I just watched recently. I thought, I love this
film is Chariots of Fire.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Charoits of Fire my my desire, Like Charots of Fire
was the last time a story of faith won an Oscar. Yeah,
and you know, it was kind of the end of
an era because, like you know, stories of faith always
were in the mix for things like that would have been
her and all those type of things. Charots Fire was
the last one. And there's something so beautiful about that story.
(52:26):
I love the line that he said, when he's considering
whether you should be a missionary or run, and he said,
you know, I also know that God made me fast
and when I run, I feel his pleasure on my back.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Like that's like, that's a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
There's two men between him and Ben Cross was so
great as.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
Everyone was grating in that film, and and it was
a just fantastic film. And also I liked Glade Eat
the first one two was good, but Gladiator one was
just a brilliant film. So there's more I could add
to the list. So Mel Gibson's and made my list
a few times. Loved The Patriot. My list is getting
longer now. But a second and if I had to
(53:05):
pick an animated film, I'd probably throw Pinocchio in there.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
We just talked about that before real cameras, like Pinocchio
holds up.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
That is a beautiful, beautiful film. Yeah. I watched it
with my kids the other day. We sat down watched it.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Is my favorite Christian film is Jesus Revelish. Oh yeah,
but I'm not biased at all. I'm not biased at all.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, So those are a few.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Well.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Greg has been treatd to just sit down and kind
of have a conversation. You know, we absolutely love much
more than the partnership with you. We'd love you as
a friend and as a mentor. And I will say
that behind the scenes, you've always not just engaged with
us and seen the value of the art. You've helped
hold our feet to the fire and making sure we
(53:47):
don't compromise on truth. And so it's a partnership and
a friendship that we deeply value here at Kingdom and
it's a just privileged to have you on the Storytellers
my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Thanks man
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