#230 Coaching Kids With Tim French

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Mat it's no surprise that parenting both girls and boys
can be hugely different.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I need to apologize as well, because I have a
level of arrogance when I talk about what it's like
to parent little boys, and I'm like, oh, thank godness,
I'm not in that category.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Look saved me from this nightmare.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Those little fuckers I love. I love young men.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Sorry, sleep that in there.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think it is a huge privilege to parent both
boys and girls.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
I do have one of each. Thank you for pointing
that out, And it is a privilege.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
We do joke about the fact that little boys are
a little bit trickier to parent, and when we make
that joke, it comes from a very happy place.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I did say painful one, but that's with love.
It's so painful how much.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I love my son. But that sounded psarcastic. It's not.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
But I think, and as you would know this, but
sometimes you do have to parent young men differently compared
to girls. Can I ask you a question, Yes, do
you ever get nervous about Oscar? He's a great, great child,
But do you ever get worried about Oscar growing up?
If he gets involved in the wrong groups, if he
does go down the route of having, say, unhealthy masculinity.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it does worry me a lot, actually, especially because
it's at their fingertips, Like all that shit is at
their fingertips. And I would like to think that Oscar
could mirror his behaviors more around what I'm like and
how I treat his mom and how I treat his
sister instead of how some of these knob.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Heads on the internet actually treat women. And it does
get a shit out of me, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Well, there are people out there, like coaching with Tim,
who is today's guest, who works specifically in the area
of raising young boys in a way where they turn
out to be exceptional young men.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, there's something in this chat about shared purpose that
just hit a nerve with me because it reminds me
so much of my childhood and the fact that school
is not a one size fit all for learning, and
I feel like the learning wasn't tailored to me, so
I just was not interested at all.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Tim is the father of two boys, a teacher. I
think it was a deputy principal. I believe, Oh he
was the big dog. He was the big dog for
a bit there. He still is the big dog. So Tim,
if you're listening, that's healthy. But he does so much
important work sharing the message of how to raise healthy
young men.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
And if you, like me.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
I worried about your sweet little kelpie boy turning to
the manisphere, then feed o more. Because Tim has a
lot of lessons and he also has a lot of
experience of how he's helped a lot of young men
navigate life, which is always the hardest thing to do.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And you know, as a father to three young girls,
I actually found a lot of the lessons still applied
to how I parent them. So it's a great chat.
I hope you enjoy. Welcome back to three doting dads.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
I am Maddie, j I'm Ash, and I'm Tim.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
And this is a podcast that happens to be all
about parenting and.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Is it good?

Speaker 4 (03:09):
It is a bad and they're relatable.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
If you come for advice, good news. We have Tim,
We have Tim coach. We would not give you any advice,
can I I wasn't sure if you were trying to
like withhold your last name online?

Speaker 5 (03:22):
No, okay, no, definitely not just didn't really have it's
kind of boring. My name is Tim French. It's pretty simple,
not really a catch French h.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I didn't know. I was like, I don't want to
do him like it's Tim from fourteen.

Speaker 5 (03:38):
No, just I don't know. I probably should actually now
just change it back so that it makes I don't.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Worry about fun fact this is the first ever guest
episode that's going to be on YouTube.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
Oh wicked exciting, and it's also my first ever podcast.
So many first seventy What can we celebrate?

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Should we?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
What else we got? Tim? I do want to say
thank you because before coming here last night, you had
a post on Instagram and I think you referenced us
as one of the country's top parenting podcasts.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah, definitely are in my book. I think the way
that you guys have a such genuine, authentic approach to
life really comes across and I think in a world
where we kind of get judged for every decision, the
way that you guys put across some pretty good nuggets
of information is a real relief to parents out there.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Thank you time for also information.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
And I was like, Oh, who's.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Where's he going?

Speaker 5 (04:35):
Who's coming here? Is he double booked?

Speaker 3 (04:37):
It was like one person was like, I think it
might be too dads. It was me was like, what
about all these other podcasts? That a crap? Okay, this
is the best one.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
Absolutely, we want to help the country.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Where where the plane is? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (04:52):
Anyway, that's because we sabotaged all the other ones.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
But that's that's another story.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
That's another story.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
We usually start these episodes with asking do you rec
it's all the most trouble you got in as a child.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Big exhaled.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
I'm the second child, so I personally think the second
child was sent to really test their parents because they
think you think you kind of got it nailed. After
you've done the first one, you've got a couple of
years under your belt, you still think, oh, this parenting
thing's pretty easy. And then I came along. So I'm
lucky enough to have a brother that forged the path
for me and who is a great human and was
a really good role model for me. And then I

(05:26):
probably did everything opposite to him. So my biggest trouble
happened to me. In year six, Mum and Dad uprooted
the family. We moved out of Wollongong up to the
Northern River, so we moved to Balana, so j just
New Byron, where you got.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Right, beautiful part of the world.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
Top spot. So we moved into a new It was
about fifteen k's out of town, little acreage estate, so
great little public school. I think it was one hundred
and twenty kids whole school. Wow. So I've jumped into
a year five six composite class, trying to fit in,
and naturally we caught the bus to school and some
of the other boys in the bus throwing fruit out
of the windows into oncoming cars. So as you do

(06:03):
not true at all and not commending this to anybody,
she don't do it after this would be fine, we'll
Naturally I got caught up into it. Stole some fruit
from home, which ironically dad had grown in a vegie patch.
Pretty proud of it. Yes, that's not.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
The homegrown fruit.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
My apples gone.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
Honestly, I'm the front windscreen of the van. So I've
thrown some fruit out of the bus window just now
in hindsight, like just trying to fit in. But one
of the girls that happened to catch the bus was
the SRC six captain snitch, absolute snitch, so student representative
council so kind of.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Last year snitch, Yeah, stupid not.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
So she threatened that she was going to dobb us
in and so I was petrified. So instead of actually
just waiting it out, knowing that she probably never would,
I just walked straight into the principal's office just threw
myself under the bus. Literally, I just went, I did it.
Were talking about it, and he's like what, he had
no information, So then I had to actually recreate the

(07:06):
story and tell him what i'd done. Now a bit
of pre context. When we moved from Wollongong, My primary
school journey was pretty loose. I was only there for
break times, didn't really engage with the content. Every parent, teacher,
the teachers like, yeah, Tim comes from play time. That's
about it. Like we can't really get him to do
much in the classroom until year five. You Fiver had

(07:27):
Ron Tunstall, great bloke got me into education. And we'll
talk more about rom later. But I remember specifically asking
mum and dad for a Fuboo track suit, So I'm
not sure if I'm taking your boys back down memory lane.
It was pretty similar to Yeah, it was pretty gangster,
and I think that was probably the last alarm bell.
Mom and dad went, this boy needs to change. So
we uprooted and moved up to.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
For anyone, he doesn't know what fubu is if you're
in like the rap street scenelan, Yeah it's a British version,
but what's his name?

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Boo by us you alig Alig.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
It's like, yeah, it wasn't great, and so we've moved
to this new place and then Mum and Dad get
the phone call from the school that I'm launching fruit
out of the bus window in Araxent. Yeah yeah, typicallear
no fooboo. Traxit was warned or humed, but I got
an in school suspension, had to work with the groundskeeper
for a bit and it actually, looking back, it was

(08:23):
probably a bit of a defining moment for my journey
then at that school, because I really had to kind
of turn it around because I'd mucked around most of
primary school. I remember Missus White had the year six
teacher at the new school was like, oh, Timm, you
would have learned at your old school and I was like, nap,
never touched it. She was like, really, I'm pretty sure
it's covered in like years two and four and we're
in year six.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
And I'm pretty sure it wasn't.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
I remember just learning that so I've got a whole
bunch of trouble. And you knew you were in trouble
with dad when Dad went quiet, and it was like
I got the silent treatment for like a good week.
And we were doing the gold rush, which is commonly
studied in year six, and it was probably about day
seven or eight of me to spend in absolute hot water,
and I was trying to build a sieve because we
had to build an object to take in from the
gold rash. And Dad's pretty handy, so then he comes

(09:05):
into the shed and I've got his tools absolutely everywhere,
and he's starts helping me build this thing, and we
kind of patched the relationship and happened to be like
two weeks later, I got a positive fun call home
and it was like, seems, okay, it's going to be okay,
Like Mum's rang Nan, Like the phones are gone out
around the community that he's going to be.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
He's not a piece of shite.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
He's one good thing at school.

Speaker 5 (09:27):
So that's like, honestly, that was probably it. And in
high school I was pretty well behaved. I think I
got most of it out of my system in primary school.
So primary school parent out there his son's absolutely off
the walls. I kind of made it through the back end.
High school was probably a bit of a dream for
mum and dad. I got it all out of my
system very good.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
One simple he's a fruit and another.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
You threw yourself under the bar, dubbed yourself in that.
I mean that, I mean that shows character. Immediately, you
could have easily just been like, ah, you know, if
it comes around, it comes around.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
So why did you want to become a teacher? Then?

Speaker 5 (09:57):
Good question, and so I always want to play sport,
played footy growing up. Was never going to be good
enough to play an.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
If I asked AFL League League League.

Speaker 5 (10:07):
So again, my brother two years older than me, great
role model. He was doing pee teaching at Unique, So
I was like, that's actually not a bad way I
get paid to kick a footing and hang out with kids.
So I always had like a bit of a coaching
background in terms of like coaching younger footy teams and
helping out around the place. So fell into teaching and
I had really good pee teachers going through high school.
I went back to Ballina High School to do my

(10:28):
last prack placement with the pee teachers that I had
through school, which was kind of surreal because you go
to call them by their last name. I remember Ross
Buchanan saying, if you call me mister Bell, I'm going
to fail you.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
What are you doing?

Speaker 5 (10:39):
It conditioned me for seven years to call you now.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
So fell into teaching that way, and that's how I
started as a pe teacher.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
So how long were you teacher for?

Speaker 5 (10:49):
I'm still a teacher teaching. I'm still a teacher. So
up until three weeks ago, I've been in educational leadership,
so leading well being, director of all being, assistant principle
of behavior management, if you will. In Canberra, I managed
twenty three schools and the most complex behavior needs cases
out of those schools were referred to the team and
I that we looked after. So having seen patterns of

(11:12):
behavior over time across multiple states kind of gave me
the ammunition I needed to really start this work.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
And when you say this work helping young men.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
Yeah, I'll jump back a little bit to how I
got right into this deep work. So in Canberra, I
was lucky enough to be head of student engagement at
the biggest state school in Canberra. What I did was
and I can't believe that I actually pitched this at
the time to the senior leadership. Was I asked for
every boy out of year nine and ten to be
in a boys' leadership program. And it wasn't for the

(11:43):
boys that were going to be your next school captain.
It was for boys that actually needed leadership. So I
remember ringing a good friend of mine, doctor Ann Thompson,
who's big in the education space, and running through my
pitch and he said, mane, what school leadership wouldn't take
you up on this? Like you're asking for all of
these knuckleheads to be in one class and to take
them out of the other classes where they're causing disruption.

(12:04):
And I was like, yeah, actually, when you put it
that way, why am I doing this? We created the boys' program.
We called it the Avengers. And the reason that we
got to the Avengers and we weren't copyrighted. Every one
of the lads brought a different skill set and so
when we collectively came together an if you boys can
cast your mind back to Mighty Ducks Coach Carter, remember

(12:24):
the Titans. It was pretty much pulling on all that
knowledge and putting it into this group of twenty four
young men across U nine and ten who had been
told they weren't graduating school because of their grades. The
second iteration of that program, we had one hundred percent
graduation and the three young men that were the school
leaders came out of that program. Wow, they also won

(12:46):
every act Education award that they possibly could that they
were eligible for after they came through that program. Now,
I'm not some superhuman teacher that just wrote this ridiculous curriculum.
What we did was we came up with a singular
purpose and we gave the boys another home inside the school.
And it wasn't a physical space. It was something to

(13:07):
belong to. Because something that boys need is a purpose
and a shared mission. And so once they collectively came together,
and what we used to do was if we were
all in the same class and Ash was being a
bonehead and we all got into trouble, figured I went
to you for the example. You noticed, I didn't go
to Maddie for that.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Judge.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Judge, that's fine.

Speaker 5 (13:26):
So we would collectively do like consequence of work, and
naturally we looked that into fitness. So because we also
played a game, we played Gaelic footy, so it was
a sport that none of them had played before. But
we had soccer boys, we had AFL boys, we had
league boys. So let's play Gaelic footy because no one's
good at it. So we don't have an alpha top
dog out of the gate. And so then I would

(13:46):
be naturally you would have been yeah, actually that's but
we would do like consequences. So whether it was more
fitness activities and you know, we weren't making them run miles,
but essentially there was a shared purpose and if you
will be in a bonehead, it was up to Maddie
and I then in classes like oh, you don't do
that because you know we're going to have to do this,
or we're gonna have to share with the group why

(14:06):
we let you do that, And so that by standing behavior,
so we created a positive culture around actually pushing ourselves
to be better. And on the back of the boys,
Jerseys actually came up with the hashtag was hashtag be
better And so it takes us back. But that program
is still in effect today and I haven't been at
that school since twenty sixteen. Wow, And now we get
the phone calls from the boys at their weddings and

(14:27):
it's the late night facetimes and they're like, you guys
change their life and you're like, yeah, did we really?
And then in the moment you kind of think, what
the hell are we doing? Like we'd have locked door
conversations about what have we done? What have we created here?
And so to get that feedback because as a teacher,
you rarely see the fruits of your labor. Right if
you're a carpenter, you knock up a house, you stand back,
have a look at it. You built that, Yeah, great

(14:48):
job right around, tell you down right. But as a teacher,
you don't get that until it's twenty years later or
ten years later and you bump into them somewhere else
and like, hey, you know when you told me this
sentence And you're like, not a chance, But they do.
And so we are now getting that back, and there
was brothers starting to go through the iteration of the program.
So that work is what made the biggest difference in boys.

(15:11):
And so that obviously set me up for my journey
for the last ten years.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
When you look at those boys as a collective, and
I'm assuming that you would go into some detail about
their environments outside of home, was there any common denominator
of saying, well, this is missing from their life, which
is why they went on a projectory to be not
so good.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
Yeah, look, it was a real mix. We had gents
in the program that they didn't have a dad at
home or mum might have been in prison. Like it
was a real mix. And so when I worked across
the ACT directorate across twenty three schools, we had about
two hundred students on our caseload. One of the important
factors out of that caseload that I noticed with every

(15:52):
young man, not one of them played a team sport,
which was pretty wild. And so out of all the
kids that got referred for complex behave to our unit,
not one of those kids actually played a team sport,
which is pretty It was pretty eye opening to me.
And obviously I've got a sports background and find a
bit of a home in different sports places.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Did that surprise you.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
It really did, because I've always trusted sport and understood
sport and you know, known the impact that a coach
can have or gifted another community. And there's other parents around,
and you start to get like a bit of a culture, the.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Sense of belonging to like you're the same, like we
both during our school years would have played team sport.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Every single every chance I could. My dream was to
be a professional athlete, and I just wasn't good enough.
So I played everything hoping that I would find the
one that.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Even though kids that had like maybe the kids that
played tennis, okay, they would have a tennis team.

Speaker 5 (16:42):
Still it's a crew, right, yeah, But.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Even though would still be like, oh, you guys playing
soccer at lunch, I want to play tem sport. You
don't like it's you saying that. I'm like, oh yeah,
unless they just weren't, you know, they had something else
that they were doing.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
But yeah, wow, okay, but a shared purpose and a
sense of belonging, we'll get you a heck of a
long way with a teenage boy, yeah, because otherwise we
were pretty egocentric. If we don't have a vision and
a bit of a purpose, we kind of just float
and then we drift. And when we drift, we tend
to drift into things we shouldn't and then that starts
the snowball. So that collective purpose and actually I remember

(17:15):
the first time they all gelled together, and they were
so excited that they'd all came together and we were
petrified because it's like we created a gang. We were
like far out. They've all come together, which is what
we wanted and we'd work so hard for and we're like, oh, oh,
if they turn on us, we're gone. So then we

(17:37):
created a leadership group withinside the program, and so then
there was four young men in that program that were
essentially elders, if you will, and they were in the
year ten, and they had different roles inside the group,
and if there was disagreements, you went to them, and
then they came through us. And so then we created
a hierarchy because we're really good at understanding that as
well as men. We kind of understand there's a chain
of command and sometimes we don't like it, but there

(17:58):
often is right and so fore young men to understand
that and know that they serve a place and their
background is irrelevant, it's just who they are in the moment.
With those group of young men, the first time we
took them away and this was kind of like we
kind of coined it like a preseason camp. We went
down to Kangaroo Valley, which down the south coast. We
put them in canoes, we made them pack food for
three days, we took a massive bunch of them and

(18:20):
it was just in case. It's part of the theory
work was design your meat, will plan. And you know
they're talking like Philip steaks and stuff. I'm like, you
do you don't care, And so jammed in a canoe
paddled fourteen ks into an island and it was the
Lord of the Fliers for three days and that was
the coming together. And so the first night were there

(18:42):
was Philip stakes, it was all stuff going on. And
then by day three that they're sort of dipping pennae
into past the right, there's nothing left and so I
often talk about letting them struggle and understanding that that's
what builds resilience. Right. One of the boys forgot sleeping
bag and it wasn't until night three that he actually
came and said, I forgot my sleeping bag.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Dude.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
We've had spare ones here the whole time. It's like
simple things about if you would have asked for help,
like you would have been cozy, right, yeah, and so
ways in which we try and encourage young men to
seek help. It's not always the big conversations. Starts with
the small stuff first, because if you can ask for
it in the small times. It makes it that a
little bit easier when you're like really struggling, right, and
then you're seeking out. But that was some of the

(19:24):
forming understandings of the way in which I understand now
what really works for young men, and that challenged by choice,
but also being a part of something bigger than myself
gives me that sort of second spur.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, there's two things there. The first one you said
about them having a purpose.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
I've got a boy and a girl. My boys are oldest.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
He's six turny seven, names Oscar, and he is non
stop and I complained about it a lot, but you
mentioned there that like a purpose. His purpose is to
continue moving because I notice when he's not moving he's
doing the wrong thing. And then also as well there
asking for help. He's so determined to do things on
his own. Yeah, And I never thought about it like

(20:04):
you just put it just something small to ask for help.
But you know, instead of just like maybe saying, don't
ask me the big things, ask me help for the
small things. Do you think that that's something that me,
as a parent of a boy, can do to try
and lead them in the right direction. For asking for
help when it comes to those bigger things.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
I think definitely role modeling it as well. I think
sometimes that we forget as parents, like I often talk
out aloud and I'm partly crazy as well, but I
try and talk through my thought process sometimes when I'm
around my boys, after how did I get to this point?

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (20:32):
And so some of the work that we did with
those young men was sat them down. We had honest
and raw conversations, and I was like, there's going to
be times when you absolutely hate me. You are not
going to like the decisions I make. You're going to
think I'm an absolute ass. But I need you, and
we're having this conversation when everything's going well to understand
where I'm coming from and what that place is for you.
Because when we sit down like this and we've got
your folks on the other side of the table and

(20:53):
we're talking about your enrollment in this program and what
your decisions have gotten to this point, I need you
to understand that still love you, I still care for you,
but I'm holding you accountable to your choices, and We've
put these things in place to get you there. So
looping back, getting them to seek help sooner and it's
small stuff. But I've got a nine year old as well,
and he just tries to do everything by himself. Yeah right,

(21:15):
And it's like I'll come into the kitchen and he's
got a stool, he's on the bench, he's got both
cover doors up over the stove to get the batteries out.
And whilst I love it because it's like perfect problem
solve with the world needs more problem solver, but if
you fell into the stove, we've got a different conversation.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
There's so many things that oschool will do, and I
do love it when he tries to do something like that,
especially when he's doing.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
To help his sister too.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
That's cool and something most of the time always happens
he hurts himself or something because he's like I can
do this, and then I'm like, just ask for help
because he wants to show that he can do it,
but also as well, like, you're right, maybe I need
to show him a little bit more that I asked
for help a lot, which I don't think he would
think that.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
He would just think that I would know everything.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
Yeah, well, very wrong, you're superman, thank you. Right, we'll
cut it there. But in their eyes at those young
formative ages, so from like zero to five, and mums
usually take the cake in this space and not pushing
agenda or anything like that. But if you listen to Steve,
but if he's kind of the og in the boy's
space zero to five, mum or the primary parent care

(22:20):
in that arrangement is the main voice of reason. Yeah, dads,
we kind of get this window from five to twelve
with boys where we get a bit of a say
in how they're going to form. Now, in real reality,
what we say literally doesn't really break the skin on
who they're going to be. It's the community we build
around them. And so after twelve, they kind of shut
down listening to their parents and they start to listen

(22:42):
to outside voices. So that's when you be really selective
as a parent on who you're building in that community
around your young person. So now the bigger player we've
got to come into that space is the online space
where when I was going through school, I didn't have
to worry about that. I'm so grateful to get through
school with the dumb phone. Yeah, I didn't have to

(23:02):
navigate teenage years with we.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Had like all we had was like rotten dot com
it was like that was like that was it.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
We didn't have like t.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
With dial up internet where the computer was in the
living room.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
Like that sort of shit like that.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
And it was like, now I'm not like, I know,
it's early doors for Oscar and maybe like his online
you know presence. But if it's like this now, like
well in ten years time, it's going to scare the
shit out of me.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
Yeah. And so the work that you do now you'll
get ROI and out at the back end.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Sometimes I see the way Oscar talks to Macy, how
I've spoken to him when potentially he's done something wrong.
Is there anything I can do to maybe shift that
so that he starts to maybe talk to her a
little bit differently.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
I think you've done the heaviest lifting part that you'll
ever need to do as a parent mate in the
way that you have worked on yourself. And I genuinely
mean this, thank you. The way that you've changed the
way you go about things, yeah, will actually change the
way they parent went down the tray. Yeah, And that's
when I was getting emotional on the plane, because sometimes
we forget that work. But if you think about the

(24:05):
way you might have parented in younger years as a dad,
you neither do it the exact same way your parents
did it, or you'd be like, I'm not doing anything
they did because they sucked at it. I'm doing it
this way. And I guess the first question that I
often ask my clients that want to work with me,
because I do do this with families, They say, a team,
we need your help. We've got a teenage sign wh's
runing off the rails. I need you to fix him. Starters,

(24:26):
it's not a renovator's delight. We didn't pick him up,
but we're not going to flip in. The bones are great,
the foundations there, but we're just going to rough around.
There's got a bit of mold, Yeah, we can clean
that off. It's what are you prepared to change?

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Right?

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Because if you're not prepared to change, I can work
with you a young person. I can see them forty
five minutes twice a week, once a week, whatever you want.
But if we're not going to change how we all
approach things, we're not going to move the needle.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
What's your process? Then? If you've got a case, how
do you start to go through your checklist to see
where the problem is and when how you can start
fixing it?

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (25:05):
Cool, good point. I've got an amazing client and an
amazing young person that I work with. And the first started.
Both of parents reached out to me. So separated house,
but mom and dad. They tick every box of co
parenting that could ever exist, to the point where after
the first call, I said, guys, I'm not going to
take your money. You guys are doing absolutely everything I
would recommend for you to do as someone who's co

(25:28):
parenting a twelve year old boy. Because you're doing a
phenomenal job. Take a deep breath, pour a glass of wine.
You don't need me in your life. You're doing everything.
And then it was about a week later they were like, hey,
would you mind talking to our son? And I was
like absolutely, So I meet with their son once a week.
We unpack challenges, talking about shared purpose and understanding and
having a bigger goal. We just had some term one

(25:49):
goals for him at school. We had three big ones.
He achieved all three. So one was one hundred percent attendance,
hadn't been attending super well, one hundred percent attendance for
the term, absolutely rushed it. The other one was to
pick up an award at school in some aspect, which
is a massive goal. Smash that one. And the third
one was he was doing a creative project outside of school.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
And why is that important? Why is it important as
a foundation to have those simple goals as a first step.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
I feel like I want to do all through that
absolute legend and it's the heart of my way. Well,
I'm lucky I get to do this multiple times a week, right,
And seeing a young person fine purpose in stuff that
they're interested in, and it's often really cute, but they'll
attribute it to me, And it's like numb mat. You're
sitting in the mud doing the heavy lifting, working on

(26:36):
emotional regulation at eight nine seventeen. And I've got people
in my life that are forty forty five that are
too scared to sit there. And so to see you
do it at such a young age and see the
impact it's having on your life, I'm the one that's inspired.
I leave the call on an absolute height. But to
go back to your point, Maddie, is actually have a

(26:56):
conversation with them, and I take the pressure off. I'm
not here to tell you how to live your life.
You've got enough people in your life. Probably trying to
tell you how to do it, and I kind of
sit there almost like a big brother, if you will.
And a lot of the young people I work with
don't have people close in age in that that fill
that spot. And I was super lucky because my brother
was the ultimate. So I've kind of had that nurturing
experience all the way through. And kids will share a

(27:18):
heck of a lot if you give them a platform
where they feel safe. I feel like they're not going
to be judged. And some of the things they're thinking
about makes me look silly, and I'll be like, I
haven't even com branded that, and you guys have got
it on lock. And so then I just work through
a framework. We get to a certain point where we
establish and I keep them really simple because I kind
of want them to achieve them right, because then it's

(27:39):
like the snowball effect. Yeah, all right, but it's more
about it's not who I want them to sort of
like what outcome do you want to get? Like who
do you want to be? Because I work a lot
with kids in eleven and twelve and boys, and what's
the first question that a person in your twelve gets
asked by any relative or anyone in their family job. Yeah,
what are you to do when you finish school?

Speaker 3 (27:57):
And they finished?

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Yeah, exactly right, and so they're ready to just like
rage out because they don't know a fair cop.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
I still a load of question, such a loaded question,
and look not to shit on the previous generation. It
is a loaded question for them to have their say
of what they think that you should fucking do.

Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah, well, because they did it for forty five years, right,
exactly right, they wouldn't change it. And so I start with, actually,
what sort of person you want to be, and let's
backwards map it, and then we'll go from that aspect, right,
So we'll see what sort of person you want to be,
and we'll work on those skill sets. And then what
you find is, over a period of like two or
three weeks or even a month, they start to then
find out more about themselves and then who they want

(28:34):
to be, and then that leads to a job, and
then all that sort of stuff comes undone. But parents
seemingly have this pressure that their kid needs to have
it or locked in. By the end of year twelve,
it's it's not the game anymore. It's changed. Oh, like
this generation will have between like the ones coming through
finishing year twelve. Now I'll have seven to nine different
career paths. Yeah, so the days are gone. Hey look
at you guys.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Ten different jobs.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, that I can think that I can remember, and
probably another five more.

Speaker 5 (28:59):
Yeah, it's just changed. You don't become a boiler maker
and stay a boiler maker now for forty five years
and get a gold watch and hang your boots up
and live your life. So the decision isn't as not
that I'm saying it's not as important, but it's not
as weighted because you can pivot, you can grab some skills,
you can then go to a different industry. There's a
lot more flexibility. But that's breaking some generational thinking around

(29:23):
where do we need to go?

Speaker 2 (29:24):
We always hear how important communication is with our children,
and in your opinion, what is one of the most
important windows to communicate with your child.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
One of the best ones you can do is car
ride conversation, so shoulder to shoulder, you're not face to face,
so it's non threatening. After school can be tricky, so
no you're a young person, they'll either love it or
hate it. But generally driving is a great one. Go
for a walk, again, moving forward. There's something to do
with the brain and walking forward that boys tend to like.
So you'll get more honest, open conversation. Kicking a footy

(29:53):
low impact physical tasks, so shooting a three throw, mucking
around like that, you'll get way more conversation than if
you sit down face to face and try and have
a serious chat.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Why is that a bit of movement so important?

Speaker 5 (30:04):
Do you think boys learn through doing rather than being
talked at, and they'll feel more comfortable forget that you're
having a serious conversation and then just overshare with you.
Don't tell him I said.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
That that's a secret. That's a secret, but oh so true.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Like whenever I'm like Oscar and I like play basketball
out the back sometimes and yeah, I feel like he's
much more vocal about things, even if it's like in passing.

Speaker 5 (30:27):
Yeah, it won't even be It doesn't even have to
be like serious. But if you want to communicate with
your young person, especially in the boys space, and I'm
sure it works for girls too, Matt, But it's that
disconnect from the serious part of a conversation and that open,
free flowing just happens when you're moving, which is ironic
because I do most of my work face to face,
but shoulder to shoulder is great because it's non threatening.

(30:47):
So if you actually go back to like the biology,
face to face is pretty awkward and threatening when you're
not there. It's a lot more free flowing and moving,
especially for a teenage boy, works a lot.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
I used to like going on dates and going for
a walk. Success, that's why it seemed to works. Okay,
little nugget in that. Yeah, Well, going back to the
case study where you have step one three goals, yep,
how do you then build on that? What's step two
and step three?

Speaker 5 (31:16):
Yeah? Cool, great point. We try to do a short term,
medium term, long term, so you've got one that's going
to carry over. So obviously our hundred percent attenance, we
want that for a year, right, So that's our long
yard stick. And for someone that's not attending school a lot,
that's a big number, right, And so that one's hanging
in the background. We've done our short term goal, which
was to pick up the award, and we're pretty much

(31:37):
nearly completed the creative project, and so then we just
keep refining it and we keep adopting it. Okay, we
built a book. All right, now, let's make it into
a mini movie or whatever the case may be. I
let them drive that part, and then I just hold
down the framework of keeping them in concrete steps so
that they don't get too big that they won't actually
be able to do it, because then what happens then
is we often extend young people too far and the

(31:58):
barrier to entry on the next time is too high,
and we won't re engage back with it because we're
not tried it, sucked at it, not doing it right,
and so then we get shut down. So general, mainstream
schooling isn't traditionally built for boys that like to move
a lot. So when you're sitting on the floor consistently
for long periods of time, it's not how our brains work,

(32:19):
because boys learn more through doing rather than being talked at.
And so we need to shift the thinking and education around. Okay,
if we've got so many young people falling out the
back end of it, maybe we need to start with
the question at the front of what's working and what
needs to change. Because for me, like I'm passionate about
changing the way in which we educate boys. So part

(32:39):
of my work is I also I'm super lucky that
I get to fly around and talk to teachers and
run workshops on how to re engage boys in the
classroom better because instead of talking about Shakespeare with seventeen
eighteen year old boys, why can't they write the difference
of putting thirty five inch tires on their high lucks
off thirty three?

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Right?

Speaker 5 (32:55):
If we're teaching language structure and sort of effects of writing,
you can write it about something that the bloody interested
in instead of some blog that lived And no, no
offense to any of your Shakespeare listeners. I I don't
even know, but it sounded good.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Speak of the truth is of okay, But.

Speaker 5 (33:20):
Yeah, it's just it needs to shift in a big
way for me personally anyway.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
When you take on kids that potentially have ADHD, especially
I'm diagnosed. I didn't get diagnosedal was thirty five, much
like you, because I mean, back when we were at school,
it was.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Wasn't it wasn't a thing. It was there.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
I don't want to I don't want to believe it
because it was a thing and it was sort of
like a bit of a stigma around. But now it's
which is great. It's so you know, up the front.
It is what's a different approach when you come across
the kid that you're like, Okay, well he's got adhd
our brains work differently, what's your approach with that?

Speaker 5 (33:55):
Yeah? Good question. And one of the things in which
I can relate to this so well, right, because it's me,
the irony ears and I've got to find a different
way of doing it because my work's all online. I
hate doing face to face, right, But the reality is
that when you're talking to a kid in Austin, Texas
at four am our time and it's like one o'clock
their time in the afternoon, you've got to make it work.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Right.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
So when I'm working with those kids, I totally don't
care if I don't see them. They've got airports and
they're gone for a walk, right, And I'll go for
a walk too. But in terms of the way we
structure it, it's just we keep it as simple as possible,
because I don't know if you anything like me. I
like really simple, effective solutions that I can kind of
put on autopilot and that doesn't require me to think
about it too much, And there's a way bigger chance

(34:37):
of me being consistent with it. So it's not that
we lower the standard and increase the consistency. We still
have the things that we're trying to achieve, which chunk
it down differently.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, because you mentioned before if the if the goal
is to oh to be and you're in, my brain
will be the same.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
I don't know like that.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah I'm doing it.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
But as soon as someone breaks it down into those
smaller manageable chunks, our brain goes are we tick?

Speaker 5 (34:59):
And then because then we get the Dogmaine here right,
because we do chunk one. Oh cool, now we did it. Hey,
we did what we should have done, and then we
can exactly and then we keep moving through it. So
whilst you know, people like Maddie might be able to
just go yeah, bang, there's a full thing. I've got
to do all of those things, and off her runs,
I'm like, yeah too much there, Oh we'll be bored
for the next bit. Let the quarters. I will build

(35:20):
right up until like I booked my flights to come
here last night. Actually sorry, my wife booked them for me,
so thank you. Because the pressure wasn't enough. I was like,
I've got plenty of time, and it's like, oh deadline, bang,
let's go. And I was motivated to get it done,
but small bite sized chunks. And it's again, I want
people to hear me, it's not about lowering the standard.

(35:41):
It really isn't. It's about scaffolding in it a way
that it suits the person you're working with. Because if
we're not teaching to the students that we've got, or
the young people in our lives, and you're a granddad
and you're working with your grandson, or you're an uncle
and you're working with your nephew or whatever it is,
we all play a role. And I'm so sided and
I get so annoyed every time I turn the news

(36:02):
on and there's a massive outcry of what blokes are
doing wrong and men are doing wrong. Because the young
people and the people that I get to meet and
interact with on the daily feels me with so much
hope around the good young men that are coming through,
and there are role models in our community, and I
encourage anyone that plays that role, even how little they
think it is, take it seriously like you've got a

(36:24):
really good opportunity with that, and don't overcook it, like
you don't want it to be not organic and buzzword,
but you want it to be genuine, right for sure,
And so don't underestimate the power of your small words. Yeah, like,
because they really do land sometimes to a young person.
Or I've worked at a school recently and it's a
different type of education, so it's not mainstream education. It's

(36:45):
only from years ten, eleven, and twelve, and we get
boys in year eleven getting their first ever school award.
Wow right, And because they're finally at a place that
suits their learning style. They might have had rubbish attendants
at a traditional high school, moved into a different learning environment.
They come every day, their parents like what the heck
is doing to them? They come every day, they're engaged

(37:06):
in what they're doing. They can see relevance because what
we're not learning Shakespeare. They can see relevance of what
they're doing where they're going to apply it in the
real world. But that award still goes on the fridge,
and you can't tell me there's a little eight year
old or little nine year old and they're going, yeah,
damn right, I did I got that. Yeah, And so
it still has an impact. And sometimes we think when
they're a bit older, a bit smellier, a bit more

(37:28):
rambunctious that oh, I don't really care. You can still
help them out with single sentence, and so don't always
put that through to an attribute though. Yeah, Okay, they've
got to have actually earned the compliment that you're giving them,
because if you just give them some surface level stuff,
they know you're just doing it to be nice, and
they also know that it's just bare. Yeah, so they've

(37:49):
got to have earned it. If they haven't earned it,
don't give it. Talk about something different.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
We know language is so important. What are some of
the types of language that we shouldn't be using with
young men?

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (37:59):
Good one, I get it. Bit of flack in my
comments for sort of I don't want to say middle aged,
because I'm probably pretty close there myself, I guess, but
from an older male generation about some of the ways
in which I convey some ideas around how you can
potentially and in all my channel, I'm not telling you
how to do it. I'm just showing you examples of
what I've seen anecdotally over fifteen years in the space

(38:21):
of what works. And I've seen it from prep through
to the end of year twelve. So I've got a
pretty good lens of understanding of what works and what
doesn't work, and the parents that I've sat across from
in parent meetings and understanding what styles they use at
home as well. So I've kind of had that inside
information one that I hates men up.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Why do you hate that?

Speaker 5 (38:38):
I hate it so much because for me, a real man,
and in terms of we talk about healthy masculinity and all
those buzzwords that are going around, for me, it's about
if you can share what's going on for you but
you're still working through it, or you might actually need
to go and see a mental health provider and admitting
that you're going to do it and actually following through

(38:58):
on that. That's way tougher to me than other stuff
that goes on in society. And for me, it's like,
if you're not in a position where you can admit that,
maybe then that's a reflection piece. And I know when
I first went to therapy, thirty five went in. I
parked next door at the KDM dealership and the first
four sessions I spent with the lady that helped me

(39:20):
and I originally went for anxiety and left with ADHD
and I was like two for one. Yeah, the first
four sessions, I was convincing her why I didn't need
to be there, and I still was like, no, I'm
parking next door because I don't want anyone to see
my truck at the front right, And It's like, what
the hell why am I doing that? I'm like, I'm
work in the space.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
What was your fear? Like, why were you so afraid
of acknowledging that you needed help.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
I think it was probably because you kind of get
conditioned that you just got to figure it all out
and white knuckle it right. And so as a young
person you just try and sort stuff out, and as
a young bloke, you just take care of stuff. And
then I got to the point where I was like,
I'm thirty five years old. If I was going to
fix this thing on my own, I would have been
able to do it by now. I'm not the sharpest
still in the shed, but I'm pretty handy in this

(40:05):
sort of space. And I was like, I would have
fixed it. And I was projecting anxiety onto my young people,
and that was really confronting. So you talked about an
example before where oschool was talking amazing and you could
see yourself right, I could see in my kids them
like assessing a situation the same way my brain would.
And mine's a little bit different because my whole world's

(40:26):
been around risk assessments and keeping kids alive while you've
got them in really wild situations. But my brain does
that twenty four to seven the whole time, and that
was going on to my young people, and the first
time I really noticed that, it was like a kick
in the guts and I was like, I'm okay for
me to deal with it, but I don't want them
dealing with like I'm bleeding on people that didn't cut me, right,
So I had to then go and assess that for myself.

(40:48):
But yeah, the first four sessions, I remember ringing up
the clinic and I was like, hey, aned help, got
super bad anxiety. And they've got all their lovely profiles
on their website, right, and you get to pick on
and like who do you want? And I was like,
I don't care. I want your guru on anxiety. I
just want to go on, like yeah, sweet, I'm expecting
to open the door and like gand Off be there
with his big wizards. Was not there.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
He was not there.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
I was pretty not. What was on the other side
was a relatively young female that was just an absolute
weapon at what she did, and I was just the
first thought was like, oh my god, I'm about to
go and tell my life problems to this amazing human.
And that was one of the bigger hurdles for me.
I'm sitting there playing with it like a sparkly cushion

(41:31):
and You're like, if any of the boys saw me
like this, And then in retrospect, I've got to a
point now where my circle, instead of that being an issue,
he is like, yeah, good mate, that's perfect. Yeah you
should be doing that, like you've got and you've got
a responsibility to your family to take care of yourself
and so you can't parent from a disregulated pattern, and
so if you're not prepared to do the work, then

(41:54):
that's probably where you need to start, right.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's such like a feels like kicking a goal when
when a good mate rings you and says, hey, I
want to see someone.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
What's my first step?

Speaker 1 (42:02):
And I'm like, like, Miles rang me up. Who's the
most toxic man alive? I love him to death.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, he's an enormous human, Like he's the type of
person who looks like he could kill a bed with
his band.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, exactly right, and he rang me and he was like, hey,
I'm battling with what was going on with an X
of his He.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Was like, should I see a therapist?

Speaker 3 (42:22):
And what do I do?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I said, you should absolutely see a therapist regardless, and
this is what you need to do, and like two
days later he was like, fuck, I can't.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
So glad I did.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
That and it was and it made me feel like, Okay, well,
if I can influence my friends, then maybe yeah, I
can influence my kid a little bit more and hopefully
he can be emotionally intelligent growing up, because at the
end of the day, like all of this sort of
stuff where you're like, man, are man aren't like they're
not you, Like you're getting those comments that person's just

(42:49):
essentially emotionally immature, absolutely and all of you know, the
swing can be so massive. If we just teach our
boys that you're allowed to, it will help. You're allowed
to you know, you're allowed, you're allowed to feel something,
because that's I have so many mates that were told
that just a man up, you can't feel a thing.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
He would be ashamed to cry in front of me,
and it's like that's fucked.

Speaker 5 (43:09):
Up one hundred percent. Like I'd rather have someone ring
me at three am in the morning and need me
to sit there for an hour, and I'd sit in
the mud with them so that they're not one of
the seven men that take their lives in Australia every
single day. Yeah, it's a crazy statistic and it's one
that I think that we can and it is starting
to change a little bit, but we've still got a
heck of a lot of work to do in terms

(43:31):
of what we can do. And I think these little
steps now, I'm not I don't hold all the secrets.
I don't know if this is one hundred percent, but
I don't think there's anything wrong in teaching your young
man to understand his emotions and how to work through them, right,
And if we can do that when they're younger, you've
got to heap more traction because you can only imagine.
You see how it was when you went. I know
what it was like when I first went. Trying to

(43:53):
get older people to go and do it. That's super
hard work. Yeah, and understanding. I kind of got to
the point where I was like, I kind of care
more what I think about myself than what other people do,
and that's I'm not coming from a place of arrogance
at all. But it was like, I live with myself
twenty four seven, right, I'm washing my hands six hundred
times a day after COVID because of what, And so
I had to put the steps in place to be

(44:15):
able to get to a different, different horizon.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I guess yeah, I like with Oscar try and allow
him to have a space for those emotions because for me,
I didn't really start talking. I knew I was an
emotional kid. I knew I was an emotional person. I
knew I was good at picking up on emotional cues,
but I didn't start talking about it until I had
a kid, yep. And it was like, imagine if I
started earlier, how different I'd be and how potentially how

(44:38):
different people around me could have been all my life
could have been. Because now that I am way more
open about it and way more forthcoming and encouraging around it,
I feel like.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
I'm a completely different person.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I'm a completely new, refreshed person that I feel like
I've got a chance to start again and make an impact,
which is crazy, and that's why I respect so much
what you do that, you get the opportunity to see
that day in day out.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
It's pretty cool. I'm pretty blessed to be able to
do it. And I don't take it for granted at all.
And I mean, when I kicked it off in I
think it was April last year, I didn't expect anyone
to listen, right, And it's somehow resonated with people. And
I don't have all the big buzzwords. I probably should
know a lot more than I do. But the stuff
that I talk about I genuinely believe in. And if

(45:26):
I'm going to put this face to it, then I'm
really going to stand behind what I talk about. And
I get asked to do things around the place, and
I'm more than happy to say no to it doesn't
suit me, and I don't get to be myself, then
I'm happy standing back.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
I love your simple approach about the steps and just
what you're set with, especially young boys, because when you're
talking about those small steps, my brain's sick and going.
I want the small steps because it's right.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
You're right.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I feel like the whole time, when maybe we went
to school, like our generation went through primary school in
high school, it was just like.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Either achieve the big thing or don't bother.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, and it's like, well, I'm not going to bother
because my brain just doesn't work like that. But it's
not a one size fits.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
All, no, it definitely isn't. And I think there's more
work that we can do in the space around education
and like, don't get me wrong, mainstream schooling works for
a lot of people, yeah, but when we're starting to
see how many it's not working for, I think we
need to start having the conversation around easiest to right fear,
for sure, and there's definitely things we can do.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
When you look at the current generation coming through. It
has become a bit of a buzzword the man is sphere,
which is a good thing to be aware of. But
I think there are so many parents out there who
have young men who are really anxious of the fact
that their biggest fear would be their child growing up
and falling into that slipstream. There's definitely times where I
think I'm so grateful that I have girls. It's not

(46:49):
something that I have to worry about. I have other
fears as well, but that is a big one that
I have the luxury of not worrying about when you
want to give advice to other parents with young men. Yep,
maybe it's ash, maybe a hard one to answer and
in a short, concise conversation like we're having now, but
what do you think some of the signs that your

(47:10):
child may be slipping in to toxic masculinity?

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Yeah, look, it's it's a very interesting landscape at the moment,
and obviously exacerbated by social media because half of this
wouldn't get any time of day in when we grew up, right,
because you think, how would we have even accessed that information?
So the phones play one of theb's roles, and my
advice to any parent is to delay access to a

(47:36):
phone as long as humanly possible. I don't have the
correct age that you should give access. I don't know
what it is. I'm super lucky that the friendship group
that my wife and I have we openly discuss it
and it's like, Okay, we're going to do this as
a collective when the time comes and we've got a
few more years away. But choose your friends around that

(47:57):
sort of stuff, like the values piece, around how you
want your kids and you want to parent your kids.
Pick the village around you to have similar ones because
it makes it easier, right, because if ashes coming home
and his folks are saying one thing, and you're going
home and your folks are backing that up as like okay, cool,
that's status quo, right, and you've got pockets of friendship.
But for me, it's not an instant switch when they

(48:18):
just go yep, sweet young boy to arrogant dickhead. Right.
It's just not a switch. It's a drift, okay, and naturally,
and it's a hard one to play. So I don't
have an exact point in time that a parent go,
uh got him, that's where he's gone. I don't have
that because as they get older, they want more independence.

(48:38):
Don't mistake independence is them slipping off into the red
pill stuff. And I'm not going to get into that
because I don't really want to give it any airtime.
But keep your family traditions and keep them engaging with
you in your day to day living ways of life.
And what I mean by that to break it down
really really simple. You don't want your young person looking

(49:00):
at that that's put out on social media thinking either
that's attractive or be that it's normal. They should be
able to look at that staff and hopefully share the
same opinions of you guys and go, that's pretty wild
and not reality. Yeah right. You want them to be
able to identify that that's batshit crazy and that's not
the way the rest of the world works. And you
can still work hard, make good money, and be a

(49:23):
bloody good human without doing all that other stuff that
goes with it. And so mine is I'm not a
fan of screens in rooms at all, but you do you.
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their parenting,
but I'll be keeping them out of there as long
as I possibly can, right, And so online gaming and stuff,
and we haven't really had to bridge that crap yet
and deal with it as a parent. I've dealt with

(49:45):
that from other perspectives, from schooling lenses and whatnot. But
just try and keep them engaged in the family life.
Try and keep some cool routines like you know, Friday nights,
pizza night and movie night or whatever it is, those
anchor points where they'll want to come out of their
hovel to spend time with you kids. It's what we do.
And then when they see that alternate reality they really

(50:05):
understand it as an alternate reality. It's not all normal. Yeah,
I want to aspire to be like that. They're like,
what is that dude doing? That's lucy unit. I don't
want to be a part of that.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
You made a really good point about your friends, and
we always focus on the kid and who he's hanging
out with, but they're also watching who you're hanging out with.
That hit me then, because it's like, yeah, you're right.
The parents that I hang out with, Matt being one
of them, we have similar ideas of how things work.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
And yeah, like you'd think that.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
My son would be talking to my friend's son and
everything would line up so that, yeah, you're right, they
would see that and go, that's not normal. That's how
I see That's how I see it anyway, Like I
would see that because my parents would be like, have
people around me that would think that that's just outlandish,
it's fucking crazy, it's.

Speaker 5 (50:51):
Wild, and so like for you, Oscar's got an amazing
role model in Matt, Right, so he sees how.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Well did try and kidnap him one cruise ship.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Look, I'm sure there was a reason be.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Thought he thought that was there in the friendship and.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
He hasn't slept.

Speaker 5 (51:18):
We'll Crucian. But in all seriousness, the way that that
Oscar will see you treat Laura and the girls plays
a massive impact, right, because he's subconsciously seeing ash parent
Maisy and dealing with April and living with her. Well said,

(51:39):
I'm going to talk about the importance of how you
treat her in a little while. You're not off the hook,
but that plays a big role. And because sometimes it's
the subconscious stuff that's just the way of life. And
they just learned that that's the way we do things.
We treat women this way, we look after them. You know,
we do these things. We understand that. And when it's
not coming out of your mouth, because after Towell, we's
probably not listen to you that much anyway, but he's

(52:01):
watching the way that Matt does it perfect right, It's
a take a breath. You've got good people around you.
You've built a community. And I'm not saying two parents
go out and chop your friendships up, but I'm saying
if if you've got friends in your circle, that you
wouldn't be stoked if you're a young person. Was an
instant replica. Maybe question how much airtime that person gets.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
All right, sorry guy to getting cut.

Speaker 5 (52:26):
Yeah, it's just an interesting one.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
I just have another question about ADHD. But from the
parents perspective, I have ADHD. My kids aren't diagnosed OSCAR.
He's showing signs, which fine, but I'm also like, he's
also a kid.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
He's just being a kid as well.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
Are there any tools that I can use to help
in my parenting journey?

Speaker 5 (52:45):
Number one, take a breath. It's going to be all right. Yeah,
I mean I genuinely, not facetiously like it is going
to be okay. You're not going to get it perfect.
If you've seen me trying to navigate Woolly's lolliol with
my that's not him. It can't be him, right, I'm
conscious if someone starts filming, I'm gone, it's done. And

(53:07):
so like, I don't get it perfect. Yeah, I know
best practice. That doesn't mean I do it best every day.
Yeah right, So give yourself a breather on that one. Like,
listen to your last episode. You're pretty hard on yourself
about you know, your journey, So cut yourself some slack
on that. You've done more heavy lifting in the past
one hundred and whatever. It is days then some people

(53:28):
might do in their whole journey. Yeah, okay, so start there.
Number two, you understand how your brain works. Can you
imagine if your parents understood how your brain worked when
you were that age? Yeah, how could you make your
life different at that age? And what I mean by
that is for me, I see signs in some of
my kids too, about like oh yeah, we're pretty sure, right,

(53:52):
look at his dad. But I'm often like, okay, I
know what I'm like. I've got five jobs on the go.
I'm I'm getting stuck into them each time. Mate, you've
left this there, you haven't done that, you haven't done that.
You form hearing? Is that negative input all the time?
It doesn't work. So for trauma affected young people and
ADHD isn't necessarily a trauma, Okay, it's seven to one

(54:12):
positive affirmations or positive reinforcements before you give a negative.
So Jen does the empathy sandwich. Yeah, right now. Pumping
tires is one thing, but don't pump tires unless there's
a reason for it. So the trick there is find
the reason. There will always be something he's doing that
is correct. Yeah, it doesn't have to be the big

(54:34):
ticket item. Okay, it's a simple thing, right, So if
you can find them in your day, and there will
be it might have been he might feel Maze's water
bottle up, and he does.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
He does, do these kind sweet things.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
But do you think when he doesn't, do you think
you spot.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
Them not as well as I should.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
And I think I'm only just realizing that now because
you do, I think you naturally go to the hey,
put that away.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
Put that away.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
And it might not be the overly negative thing because
it's like you're trying to.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Teach them as well. It's like you finish with something,
you get it away.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
But I think I would focus on that, and I'm
not sure about you or two the girls whether you
focus on that way more than maybe that little thing.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
That Marley might have just done.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
For all of it, it's kind of insignificant, you might think.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
But it isn't.

Speaker 5 (55:20):
You going to be a strength spotterer?

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (55:22):
Right, that's an activity I'll do with teachers. Yeah, because
if you've got some teachers that have been in the
game for a while and you come in as someone
trying to get them to re engage boys in education,
and like mate, if you've had my year nine math
class on a Friday, you wouldn't be doing it. I'm like, well,
I have, I've been there. There will be something that
Ash is doing right in the fifty minutes that you've
got him where you can say, Matte, you nailed it.

(55:43):
It might be just sitting there. It might be still.
I'm like, what, it's not the exactly right, it's not
the crazy thing. But if you can shift your focus
to what they're doing right, it's a bit of a
game changer. Now, that doesn't mean that we course correct
and we guide them that you know they're out of
control by all means you've got to do that stuff.
That's been a healthy parent. But if you can switch

(56:04):
the lens over, because for an ADHD kid, and I
don't know the exact number off the top of my head,
but it's in the thousands per year more negative feedback
than a person that doesn't have it. Yeah, and that
stacks right. That compounds over time, and then what you've
got then is you've got a self esteem issue. And
when self esteem is low, it's to hold my beer

(56:26):
and watch this so I get accepted by the peer
group again. So if we can catch that early, and
we can, you know, find little things that we're doing right,
like ash, she came with your drink bottle, nailed it,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
He's actually got his name on it, right.

Speaker 5 (56:46):
But it's the small stuff and small shifts big wins
is a phrase that I use all the time. I'm
not here to rewrite the journey and tell everyone they're
doing it wrong. There's just small, little shifts that I've
seen over time that that sort of make a big
compounding effort over the long haul.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
I love when we do an episode about this and
I leave thinking about something different and how I can
so I appreciate that and like, you're right, the small
shift and yeah, I just sorry, my brain is going
a million miles an hour, but also thinking about ten
other things.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
Relative you don't know how lucky you've got it. I
want to.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
When I get Targo, I know.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
That's done. Tim, I'm gonna I'm gonna pass your ego.
Oh please for a second, if I may. And we've
only met each other, you know, out the front of
the building. But when I look at you and the
work that you're doing, I do think you are a
perfect example of healthy masculinity and even more so because

(57:50):
maybe it's just me looking at what I wanted to
be when I was growing up. You know, you're playing rugby.
You know, you're a big guy, you got a great beer,
you know, you tick all the boxes of someone who
is like, in my eyes, stereotypically masculine.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
You got it together.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
But then at the same time, I think the way
that you understand emotions, the work that you're doing with
young men, I'm like, I want.

Speaker 5 (58:13):
To be you.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
I'm just wondering, you know, when you look at your
upbringing and maybe it's a real combination of things, or
maybe there's one thing that you can say, oh, this
is a real standout moment for me in how you
got to be who you are. You know, maybe it's
just you're always going to be this person. Maybe it's
in fact you had a great brother. Maybe it's the
fact that you had, you know, a great group of
mates growing up playing sport. Maybe it was your mum
and dad. Is there anything when you look at those

(58:40):
ingredients that you can pinpoint to be like this, this
was one of the most important things that made me
who I am today.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
Yeah, Look, most of like I talked about my brother,
my parents, I won the lotto, right. So Dad stereotypical
was a bricklayer, worked in steel works, loved full driving,
shooting like you name it, watch footage John Wayne, Rambo Arnie,
all that sort of stuff amazing and then Mum was cuddles.

(59:07):
You can conquer the world, You'll be everything, right. And
so Dad taught me the power of keeping your word,
and I've spoke about that a lot, and that still
rings true in our house, like to this day. I
remember recently my brother said he was going to be
somewhere at a certain time and he wasn't and it
was just like fury unleash, and it was just because
Dad has taught us from such a young age that

(59:29):
if you give you words, you keep it. Yes is
a real yes. So don't say yeah, I'm going to
be there and then pull out early, Like that's not
what we do in our house. Say no upfront if
you can't make it. But your word is your bond.
And if you give someone a handshake, that's as good
as in writing. And that was kind of my upbringing
and who I am to this day. And Mum used

(59:50):
to always say say what you mean and mean what
you say, and I just always remember that phrase, like,
if we're ever in a bit of trouble or we've
been a bit smart with our mouths around the house,
Mum would always just to that line. I mean when
you're saying, say what your mean? Yeah, okay, gotcha. I
was blessed, I won the lotto, I had got two
of the best parents. I was on the phone to
dad just before I got here and I was like,
do you reckon? My biggest moment of being in trouble

(01:00:12):
was the bus And he's liked, don't talk about it.
And I guess that's another thing, like our kids will
make decisions that we can't fathom or we go, oh,
how did they do that? That is not a reflection
of you or me when our kids make a poor choice,
Like our brains aren't fully developed until like twenty five,

(01:00:33):
twenty eight, So if my nine year old has an
absolute blinder and makes a poor choice, it's pretty easy
in the moment to be like, oh crap, what's he
doing that for? I'm allegedly got it all together online,
Take a breath. Their kids they're growing up in a
world that's pretty bloody crazy, and I think they've got
it harder than we did. Coming up in terms of
online influence, all those sorts of things that are happening.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
The world's at their fingertips.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Man, it's crazy because like how quick everything happened right,
Like I was thinking about it the other day. I
was at NaN's house and she pulled out this original
Motorola phone from like thirty five years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
And I was like, no, it was I'm talking. I
had a brick like like a like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Just charging station, and I was like fuck, And it
was like that was when.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
I was a child. Was like, yeah, fuck, we've come.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
So far that now, like I kind of feel for
them to the minefields they're going to have to dodge
on the way through.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
We didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
We had it was like, who's playing soccer at lunch?

Speaker 5 (01:01:29):
Yeah, from the hose, not the bottle.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
I missed the hose.

Speaker 5 (01:01:36):
Like one of the things that I noticed a lot
when I'm driving is a lot of young people on
screens in their parents' car. You are not uber some
part of entry in My kids don't have phones yet,
but it will be your phone goes in the glove box.
I don't mind if you're Spotify DJ off my phone,
but I'm not your Uber. You will not have your
air pods in unless you know it's five minutes before
the footy game and you have a pump up song

(01:01:56):
you need to listen to. But absolutely missed opportunity. But
the screen's away. Different story. If you're on a long
road trip, by all means, do your thing, but around town,
get the screens out of the car. They're absolutely robbing
you of a connection point with your young person. That
is so easy, and in a world where we're pushed
for time, it's a great little hack to make sure
you're up to date. And usually they'll share some pretty
randow stuff. So instead of hitting them with how was

(01:02:19):
school today, ask them what the funniest thing that was
that happened at school today? Or another one that also
works really really cool is ask them if someone fared
in class today, because I'll naturally laugh and then that
breaks the wall down and then I go, no, no
one did, but this happened. So with the younger kids
that works. Maybe it works with the ten aagers as well,
but more than likely someone has fighted in class.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
The work that you do is predominantly around young men.
Why young men?

Speaker 5 (01:02:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Why do they deserve the attention?

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
Yeah? Thank you? And look I get I do get
a bit of online flak for this in the comment section,
so I thank you for bringing that up. I do
the work with young men because that's my experience, that's
my knowledge base. And it's not because I don't value
what girls bring to the table. I just don't want
to be another clown on the internet talking about something
they shouldn't And girls are outside my remit because I

(01:03:05):
don't parent girls. So I'm not going to sit here
and tell you what I've seen work in my household
because it'd be absolute fabrication and the world's got enough
phonies in it that The reason I work with boys
is because that's what my experience is. I spent the
last fifteen years in educational leadership and private coaching one
on one with boys. I understand what makes them tick.
Once I know the young person where the edge is

(01:03:26):
and they need to be pushed a little bit, so
challenge my choice where they get to choose and opt
in and opt out and supporting them through that. But
I work with boys because that's just my knowledge base.
It'd be like if Ash was a holding mechanic and
he absolutely just nailed it, and you worked on forwards like,
it's no different. I want better boys because in the
end of the day, it's going to better influence our

(01:03:47):
females as well. But when that thing came out about
the bear and the man, that infuriates me that that's
where society is at and for good reason that that
come out right. And we've got a heck of a
lot of work to do. So the work that you
you boys do on your podcast, the snippets that I
get to put out into the community, hopefully we can
change that narrative to your listeners. The young men that

(01:04:09):
I have the privilege of working with on the daily,
I would be picking them over the bear because they're
great young men. They're often lost. The goalposts have shifted
on what's it mean to be a man so much
over the last five years, and if you make a decision,
it's toxic maxillinity and if you don't, it's femininity. Where
when we grew up, you's got to be who you were.

(01:04:30):
So I'm super confident in the next generation of boys
coming through. I work with them every day. I'm really
excited and I know we've got some work to do,
but proud to be a part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
If there are parents out there whose biggest fear is
their child joining the manosphere, or the biggest fear is
their son growing up to display toxic masculinity. What are
some of the steps that they can have in the
back of their mind to make sure they don't go
down that path.

Speaker 5 (01:04:54):
It doesn't happen overnight, So I just want parents to
take that at ease. It's not just going to wake
up and go from sweet boy to arrogant dickhead overnight.
It's going to be a drift and you're gonna pick
up on that. Just be careful though, if they're at
the age where they're seeking independence, and don't mistake the
independence for the menisphere. But you'll notice a massive shift
in language, so the language they use to explain things

(01:05:15):
that might be outside of the family norm. Be understanding
of who you're putting around them in their village. It's
super important. And as a family, one of the things
that you can do to keep your young person engaged
is have those connection points throughout the week, whether it's
Wednesday's roast night, or it's moving on on Friday and
we get pizza. You want them engaged in family activities.
So that online version that's not reality, looks so far

(01:05:38):
left of field that you're like, what the heck is that?
I like what we're doing, I like what we're about.
I'm not interested. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Yeah, It's one of those things where us now in
our thirties looking at you know, younger men coming through it,
you can see the difference, like it. I know that
we also have the world our thinkers tips too, right, Yeah,
where we're like, okay, and we see the bads off
because we're adults and that's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
But then also you see the good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Of young men taking accountability of their and of themselves
and their emotions and being able to you know, and
it doesn't mean that you're soft or you're weak, because
it's really powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
And I'm yeah, I'm equally to you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
I'm excited to see Oscar grow up and then be
able to I feel like I wasn't also able to
provide enough emotional maturity for my wife until I was older,
But I would love Oscar to be able to do
that from the get go, which is crazy to think
about it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
It's pretty wild, right, Yeah, the fact that two dudes
hold a parenting podcast. If you go back twenty years
it existed, right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Yeah, exactly, conversation changed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
It didn't really even exist three years ago when we started.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Exactly right yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
And to be one of Austraa's best parenting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
In a world where extreme views get so much cut
through and so much attention, it's so reassuring. You know
there's people like yourself out there who are putting out
such important, valuable messages. So thank you so much before
you go, and he to ask you one last question.
When your boys are all grown up, when they have
left the nest and no longer living at home, what
is the one thing you want them to remember about

(01:07:14):
the house they grew up in.

Speaker 5 (01:07:15):
Oh, that is a solid question. I want them to
know that I'll always have their back and that doesn't
matter what they do, they can always share it with me,
and we've got the safe words that they can use.
Real serious moment but funny side quest because that's when
my brain goes. Having this conversation with my six year
old about were deciding he was picking what his word
was going to be. If you ever had to come

(01:07:36):
and tell me, hold onto your hat, I said, Bud,
this is the word. You get to choose it it
can be anything you want, and when you say it,
Dad promises to sit listen. He might need to walk
away when you're older, have a think about things. Will
always circle back, but you can always use it and
I'll help you. He's like, yeah, cool. I said, all right, mate,
hit me, what's your word? And he went plant. There

(01:08:00):
wasn't even one in the room. There was not even
one in the room.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
I think he might have it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:07):
Okay, that's what we're working with. He definitely wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Want to go to be a guarden because that could
be really talking to me about what.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
But yeah, I just want him to know. And I
had that always. I could ring Dad now, so Dad
and each in Sydney and he'd be on the next plane.
And I want my kids to have that from me
and my wife. And hopefully they're starting to feel that now,
even when we hold them accountable for sometimes they're poor choices.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
When you look at the stats right now, and it's
something that it's hard to talk about, but at the
same time, because a pretty clear picture of what the
issue is. Do you know suicide rates among young men?

Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
Yeah, look, it's it's pretty wild, not just young men,
but men in general. So on average in Australia daily
there's nine suicides. Seven of those nine are men. Out
of every five male suicides in Australia right now, less
than one of those people actually reached out for help,
which is quite a sobering statistic, which is the reason

(01:09:06):
why this work is so important and whilst we're so
grateful to be here today to champion the young people
that are coming through and to celebrate the fact that
we are re educating our young men that it's okay
to ask for help and not that it's okay, it's
actually masculine to ask for help and to keep working
through it. We don't completely shut down. We ask for help,

(01:09:27):
we get the tools, we then use the tools to
keep working on things, and for me, that's masculinity in
a nutshell.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, it's wird to think that for some people it's
an easier option to end their life than it is
to try and ask for help.

Speaker 5 (01:09:40):
Yeah, it's pretty scary, and I'm grateful to be on
the other side of that and understand that if we
do this work now and we have these tricky conversations,
we can change that statistic. And it is starting to
peter but it's still a pretty wild number. I think
we'd all agree that even one is too many. But
if we ca change the narrative of that by just

(01:10:01):
educating our young men that it's bloody okay to ask
for a hand when you need it, and that it's
actually a masculine thing to do to ask for help
and not to just white knuckle it and cowboy up
or whatever the languages you want to use to get
through life. Bloody asking mate for help, because I know
that you would be stoked if Ash called you when
he needed you, or vice versa. It's an important thing.
I think as a friend on the other side of
the phone, it's it's it's quite an emotional part of

(01:10:24):
it too, but to know that you're helping someone is
also a good thing as well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
It's while do you think just little phrases like you
said before, man up and boys don't cry, which is
just so off the calf and I don't really have
any importance, but what impact that's having on young men
as they grow up. Tim, It is an absolute pleasure
to have you on the podcast, and for your first time,
it's pretty good job.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Like I said, I love it when we get to
have a chat with someone that leaves me thinking and
leaves me with something small than I think that I
can change or shift as you would say, for the positive.
And I think a lot of people are going to
get a lot out of this and the first YouTube,
so they get to see that beard in action.

Speaker 5 (01:11:07):
Rush, Look, thank you so much for having me on
and for the opportunity to talk about the great things
that young men are doing. And to all the parents
out there, it's going to be okay, zoom out. As parents,
we get stuck in the micro zoom out. Look at
it at a grand scale. I'm sure you're a young
person's an absolute legend. Give him some time, but thanks
having me. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
So we have Jen who is the oracle? Yes, but
what does it called Tim the Wizard? The Wizard, here's
the wizard of parenting.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I love it when we have a guest on that
makes me leave the episode and go home and try
some of the techniques, especially when it comes to Oscar,
because yes, I am worried about how he's going to
grow up and treat women and just respect people all together.
So now there's so many things that I can take
from that conversation that I can apply at home.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Except when you get home to the kids and you're like,
let me parent you and they're like, leave me alone,
reading a book and coloring in, don't talk, get out
of my room.

Speaker 5 (01:12:02):
Yea.

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
I wish they would say that.

Speaker 6 (01:12:06):
They're like, dad, come and sit down here said I
can't go down that low.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
So huge thanks to Tim, who actually credit where credit
is due. He flew here from the Sunny Coast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
It was his first ever podcast and he was nervous
but killed it. I think he's got no, he's got
a strong future.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
This boy a little too strong. But I'm scared for
my job, but that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
There's a massive thanks to Tim for jumping on the pod.
And if you've enjoyed this episode, we would love it.
It would just fill our cups if you will, If
you would give us a review, follow us on Apple
podcast or Spotify wherever you listen to this podcast, and
also follow us on social media.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
At Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, two Doting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Dads, and throw us any suggestions of parents or experts
because everyone said we don't want experts, and we give
you experts and you're like, oh my god, this is delicious.
We want more. So if it's an expert you want
us to speak to fire Away, we are open to
your suggestions.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
And we did receive a few messages about you, in
particular Matt bagging on young boys.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
We joke, We joke a lot around here, and we.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Do love both boys and girls and children equally, equally equally.

Speaker 6 (01:13:12):
It's just just it's just an easier target. I would say,
Oscar's an easy target. I said it, I said it,
But I love I love him dearly. He's like mini me.
So if you do feel that we are bagging on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
A little too much, it all comes with love.

Speaker 4 (01:13:26):
Well said, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:13:45):
Two.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Doting Dad's podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout
Australia and the connections to land, sea and community.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight Onlander
People's Today.

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
This episode was recorded on gadagal Land

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