July 3, 2026 • 32 mins
Alessi Allaman has dug into the Epstein files — and what he found will make you question everything the government told you. In this episode, Joe Pags sits down with the investigative documentarian to break down the FBI surveillance footage with a missing minute, the Bahamas connection, and why Alessi is 95% certain Jeffrey Epstein never died in that cell.
They also expose how Epstein possibly operated as an intelligence access agent — moving powerful people into compromising positions on behalf of agencies that will never be named in a courtroom. Plus: the deep historical roots of political influence that go back further than most people realize.
If the official story were true, none of this would still be classified.
Topics covered:
- The FBI video gap and what it means
- Epstein as a possible Mossad/CIA access agent
- The Bahamas timeline and what the files reveal
- Why the cover-up is still active today
- The political players who needed Epstein silenced
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've wanted to know since day one everything, ALESSI. I
don't think that we should be anything should be hidden
from us. Why should we be in the dark. We
were told three million pages, ten million pages. The Southern
District of New York has a truckload of pages. They're
on my desk, said Pam Bondy. Why don't we know
everything about Epstein?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, definitely seems like there's some level of cover up,
and that doesn't just mutually keep it that it's just
the Trump cabinet by any means.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I think it's been something that's been going on for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You know, the Biden administration had four years and they
didn't discuss it once, and it makes you wonder, you know,
why wasn't that brought up. But then of course when
it comes down Epstein under the Trump admin they're very
happy to go after and for that. So it really
seems like it's a cover up at the highest level.
And again this is all puer speck or I like
to say speculation. I don't have any evidence as to
(00:54):
who might behind it, what's behind it. But we do
know is there's still three million files. You know that
it seems to be in the hands of the Trump Admin.
They have the capability to release it. We've seen prominent
congress people like Marjorie Taylor Green who have called out
and said we should release it, and apparently there's been
some conversations with her and Trump on her last days
(01:14):
working as a congresswoman and essentially put it in the
phrase that you know, there's some friends of mine that
can get hurt.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Apparently that's what was allegedly spoken.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So I don't know what that means, but optically speaking,
it doesn't necessarily look good for the Trump Admin. People
my age are right now very confused because he ran
on it and he didn't need to, that's the thing.
He didn't need to run on this, but he made
it a big policy where people ask him He's like, yeah,
I'm going to try to release it. And then day one,
you know, they had that whole thing where they gathered
(01:45):
all the conservative influencers. They went out read the piece
of paper being like, we got the files. Yeah, And
it turns out it was everything we kind of already knew.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, and there was nothing new in there. Well, let
me piggyback on this. But Nancy Mace also wanted them
released and she says she was gonna name names. But
let's speculate together about the Biden administration not releasing anything.
And the reason why I want to go there is
they indicted Trump ninety one times between the time he
was the president and the time he became the president again.
(02:15):
Ninety one times. They did everything, in my opinion, to
stop this guy from running and winning again, and they
failed in those four years. Even if Biden was afraid
that his name would show up or some friends name,
they could have reacted all of that and released everything
that would have implicated Donald Trump. So I make the
assumption that Trump himself is not implicated criminally in anything
(02:37):
that's in the Epstein files, So why then aren't we
getting all of it? It cann't be as simple as
my friends might get hurt. And why didn't Biden release anything?
If they had the goods on Trump, wouldn't they have
released it to stop him from becoming president again?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
You would think so. Again, it's such a complicated issue
at this point, where again I tend to believe that
it's not just a one party thing. I think it
seems to be two types. Both parties involved people that
have been obviously shown in it. You know you have recently,
I think the greatest example of this being more than
just a two party system, but one party uniting on
(03:12):
this topic is you have Bill Clint.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Depositions that took place. And the reason I bring those
up is he went out of his way.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
A guy who is a fierce rival and his wife,
Hillary Clinton, fierce rival of Trump in the twenty fifteen election,
he went out of his way to say I just
want to say also that Trump's not implicated.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Now I don't know what that means, but this is
a fierce rival.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
This is a guy in twenty fifteen, right before the
Missouri or the presidential debate between Hillary and Trump, goes
on stage and accuses Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting and
you know, doing the horrific things to women. And earlier
that day held a press conference with all the accused
women that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Vis Clinton reluxively touched right all those things.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And this is of course during the time of the
Hollywood Access tape.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So you think of the timing of that where it's like, joy,
I would say.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
If you ever accused me of some horrific crime like that,
I don't think I would be your friend. I think
if you're making those shots and calling that against me,
I would be.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Furious and angry. But then you have this guy, almost
a decade.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Later on the Epstein deposition, going out of his way,
not even being questioned about this from the congressional people
that were there in the House committee, and saying, I
also want to put out that it Trump had.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Nothing to do with this or whatever. Optically it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
You look at the timeline, it just I can't help
but say there's something there, there's a thread that needs
to be pulled on. I don't know why he would
go out his way to do that, because again, like
I said, if I ever accused you of something like that,
I doubt, even ten years later, you would go out
of your way to almost defend me in some capacity.
In regards to you, this would be the nail on
(04:58):
the coffin if you wanted to end Trump right there,
nail the coffin.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I tend to think and that again I'm not
saying Trump at all is the things that are being
said about him. There's no actual evidence saying he's done anything.
And as you mentioned, but optically speaking, you wonder in
terms of the two parties. Why there hasn't been something
done in the last eight years at least, especially since
twenty nineteen when Epstein allegedly died.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, it's Alessie Alloment. Go and follow him over on YouTube.
Alessi eloman all one word over on YouTube. Great storyteller,
incredible YouTube creator. I'm glad to have you on today.
Let me ask you somebody you mentioned in passing, why
are people eighteen to thirty five so interested in the story?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I think a lot of it has to do with
one the whole thing of you have this guy that
has intelligence links to possibly the Masade and CIA, so espionage,
that's the topic that interests.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Many young people.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yes, you know, you think James Bond films, You think
of the Americans' homeland that were in the Zeitgeis that
people were just fascinated by. But then you find out
that this guy's like a multi billionaire, he's trafficking young girls,
he has an island like it sets the stage for
like a James Bond film, Like you would think, like
(06:15):
this guy is literally a James Bond villain, And so
personally speaking, you become interested in it. And then once
you start to find out the horrific details that there
are so many a list celebrities involved, so many people
like Prince Andrew, the Royal family implicated buddy of this
random New York guy from Long Island.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Epstein, You're like, who is this? Who is this kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Mister magoodoo that shows up everywhere and anywhere? And then
he has tied all these people. He's got photos with Oprah,
photos with Bill Gates, photos with Michael Jackson.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
You're just like, what the heck? How do I not
know about this guy? Why is he not all over
the place?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And then after his again alleged death, the suspicions just
ran ran up, you know, in that whatever it was
July or August twenty nineteen, when he supposedly offed himself,
it was so clear his day to everyone my age
being like, there's no way this guy died. When you
say the cameras went out, you're saying that all of
a sudden, that the guys took the shift, the security guards.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Weren't there at the right time, right, nothing was adding up.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And then apparently, and again I could be corrected on this,
that they took out a double body, another body out
so the camera people wouldn't take photos of it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
None of it is making sense.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And so because of that, people like myself, a lot
of people my age, we've gone ahead and decided to
do these deep dive investigations and then credit to the
Trump cabinet. They did release three million files, they did
release a two hour interview of Steve Bannon and Epstein,
where we now.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Have something to work with. But again there's supposedly another
three six million.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Who knows, ALESSI all of it. He is a great
creator for on YouTube. If you were under oath and
could possibly spend a lot of time in prison, if
you didn't give the right answer, what would you say
or who would you say? Epstein was? Through your deep
dives and your storytelling you your documentary or your documenting
of all this. Who was Jeffrey Epstein in your mind?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
If you put a gun to my head, I would
say he is an access agent that worked for the Masade.
And then in two thousand and eight, probably around that
time when Alexander Costa and Florida gave him that sweetheart deal,
it seems that you know, the CIA also knew about
him at that time. So I think the CIA saw
his value because from what I've heard from former CIA officers,
(08:35):
an access agent is valuable in the sense of, you know,
if you're going to recruit a Bill Clinton, you can't
just go like, oh, I'm going to get blackmail whatever
he's do whatever I want.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Apparently it's not that easy. Again, that's what they say.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
So in order to get someone right there one below,
you find someone like an Epstein who's in that inner circle.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You know, he was a donor to Bill.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Clinton's nineteen ninety one election in is at a couple
of the White House, I think seventeen times something like that.
So he's right there, he's in that inner circle. He's
intimately knowing all the people that are involved. So you
get access to that guy, you use Epstein, and then
from there you can then build whatever you need and
get access to the information to then whatever get back.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
To your HQ, whatever country you're trying to help.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
In that case, do you think that Trump screwed it
all up in the early two thousands because he literally
did kick Epstein out of mar A Lago. Epstein was
treating a member's daughter badly and Trump got him out
of mar A Lago. But then we also have official
records that he contacted the local authorities and said, you
got to do something about this Epstein guy. Do you
think that he screwed it up somehow, because again I
don't know why he's not just just signing, let's release everything.
(09:47):
I'm with you. I couldn't agree with you more. And
I do think that there might be some protection of
friends going on. But in the day, he didn't mind
telling the authorities this guy's a bad dude, You've got
to do something about him. And he kicked him out
of his club. What have you found out in research
that part of it?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
That part of it, it seems again very credible in
the sense that he tried to kick out that girl
that or kick out Epstein because of what he was
doing there. And again I guess the trail kind of
goes cold there in terms of the relation with Trump.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So we don't really have any specifics from.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
That point onwards in terms of the relation, if it
was there or not. So you know, we've had I've
seen interviews of Mark Epstein, which is Jeffrey Epstein's brother,
he only last living relative, and he's made claims that
in confidence him and Epstein, who were strange and became close,
very suspect character. Nonetheless, he made comments being like, if
(10:38):
you knew what I knew on both these candidates, referring
to Clinton and Trump during that twenty fifteen election cycle.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
We would have we wouldn't have an election.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So I don't even know if that's necessarily anything. It
could be just a nothing burger, but it seems to
check out in terms of what he did there back
in two thousand and four.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You know, I think we I think it's who was it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think it was a late Senator John McCain's wife
or somebody said they were like, we knew about this
Epstein guy. Everyone knew his reputation, so it wasn't like
this is some bombshell thing in two thousand and eight
with that sweetheart deal. Before then, everyone knew, like, there
was this guy. He had an island. He's bringing all
these young girls around. People want to go to the
(11:20):
island because it's a good time.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Or whatever they think. So he there was a reputation
about this guy.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What's amazing about the entire thing is, I'm with you,
I don't know if he's dead or alive. I mean,
there's a legitimate question as to whether this guy really died.
He doesn't appear to have been a guy that we've
seen on these videos of of his testimony and depositions
that would never ever harm himself. He's really very full
of himself. I don't think this is a guy that
(11:49):
would just say, ah, I'm not going to stay in
the Metro, you know, New York whatever. The holding place
was much longer. Let me put this sheet around my neck.
It doesn't make any sense. And you're right, the camera
all going out and what guard fell asleep and there
was a change in shift and buh ba bup. What
do you think really happened? And are you convinced that
he's dead? I'm guessing not because you've said allegedly killed
(12:09):
himself a few times. Is he still with us?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
So if you asked me this four months ago, I
would have said he's probably dead. And then Julian Dorry
went with former CIA operator Andrew Bustimani and they recreated
the entire cell and they actually brought in Epstein's old cellmate.
They brought in a forensic expert, and they staged it
to a t what it looked like to like the
(12:34):
most minor details from what they have in the photographs,
and if you watch that Discovery episode with Julian and
Andrew Bustimani going through it, it's very clear it is
entirely possible they got him out of there and that
they used a body double or something. I don't know
if that's actually what happened, but I'm ninety five percent
(12:57):
convinced that he's still alive.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And by the way, wait, there's a minute missing in
the in the video that was released by the FBI
under Cash Hotel and Dan Bongino, and nobody ever said
what happened in the minute. We're like, well, why is
there a minute missing? They're like, ah, this is the
whole tape, don't worry about it. So there is something
hinky going on there. But if you again, gun to
your head. The guy was a an influence peddler. He
was a blackmailer. He was a guy that had a
(13:20):
lot of goods on a lot of people. Maybe Masade,
maybe Cia, maybe neither. Who knows. Do you think we're
ever gonna find out? Is it is the truth going
to eventually come out?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I think there's a select few people out there who
probably know that information. In terms of release. The rest
of the files. You know, I think that's kind of
spitting in the wind. I think all those are all
the hard drives, I would imagine, are you know, scraped.
So I don't actually believe we're gonna get any more
of that information. But there are people who are alive
who know who knew him, who were around him. You know,
(13:53):
we got Dallayne Maxwell in prison allegedly, who's still you
know she's around. She should be investigator. That's we released
the public. We should know what's going on there. We
have Steve Bannon, a guy who was with him the
last three years up until he died, interviewing him with
over sixteen to eighteen hours of interview footage with Jeffrey Epstein,
(14:14):
making a documentary to rehab his image. I would love
to know what does he know. I think that guy
has a direct line. He had a direct line to him.
You know, he was planning from the files I read
that summer to go on a vacation, going to Zoro Ranch,
going to the Paris Townhouse, going to New York City townhouse,
all over that summer twenty nineteen with Epstein. And then
(14:35):
of course he gets arrested at Teterborough Airport in New
Jersey and that's the last of it. So that's someone
that I would love to see actually confront the two
hour interview footage that came out. Because since that two
hour interview interview footage came out on January thirty first,
so I'm not mistaken of this year, we haven't heard
a peep about that from the guy who actually conducted
(14:56):
that interview with Epstein. So, you know, I think that's
a great place to start with someone who was very
close to him in his last days.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And if you say what really went on there, people say, hey,
don't worry about it, don't don't bring that up. Now,
we're good. Can we move on? He was a low life.
I think that eventually we have to get more answers.
But I think that you hit on something that's very,
very very smart. This stuff probably doesn't exist anymore. Whatever
was the really really bad stuff, somebody scraped it, somebody
wiped it, somebody bleach bit it. They got rid of it,
and we're probably never gonna get the real story. I
(15:25):
just don't like the narrative that's out there now because
it's wholly unbelievable. It is a LESSI element. You've got
to go and follow him right now at Alessi element
Over on YouTube. He's a great storyteller, he's a documentarium,
he's a great creator on YouTube. It's always a fun
time to take the family to the movies. But why
spend thirty dollars when you can save a bunch of
money and get better programming and better entertainment. Why not
(15:45):
join the Angel Guild For just fifteen dollars a month.
You're gonna get two free tickets to see Young Washington
in theaters this Independence Day, plus tickets to future Angel
theatrical releases, and full access to Angel streaming Library. It's
one of the best entertainment values I've seen in a
very long time. Now, let's talk about that movie in
theaters this Independence Day. Young Washington tells the story of
(16:06):
George Washington before he became a general, before he became president,
and before he became a legend. At just twenty years old,
Washington faced failure, setbacks, and near death experiences that would
have broken most people. Instead, those challenges forged the leader
who would help secure America's independence and future. It's a
powerful story of resilience, faith and purpose. Join the Guild today,
(16:28):
save a bunch of money. Get great program in great entertainment.
Receive your two free tickets right now by visiting angel
dot com slash PAGs angel dot com slash PAGs do
it right now.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
My name is George Washington.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Let me switch gears. I grew up where my grandfather
was from Italy, and I asked him one Dixie, So
pro is Man? This guy was pro Israel. Israel Israel
the Promised Land, the chosen people, promised Land, chosen people.
So I said, Grandpa, why do you care so much
about Israel? Tell me why? He said, well, that's the
Holy Land, Joey. And I said, okay, so the Holy Land?
And what well, Jesus was born there? Okay, got I
(17:15):
know where Jesus was born. But why are we so
like in support of whatever it takes to make sure
Israel is good? And he said, it's the promised Land
for the people that were chosen for that land. Now,
you talk a lot about the Scofield Bible. I'm not
really familiar with the Schorefield Bible. Is that belief system
my grandfather had from that version of the Bible?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
They have so explained how yes, So this is a
very complicated one.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Because there have been major conspiracy theories around the Schofield Bible.
And I actually spoke to an expert on this period
of history, Dan Hummel, probably the I would say, the
number one historian in terms of the history of a
dispensationalism Christian Zionism. He's been talking about this for two decades,
hasn't been on any podcast, Surprising Land. I brought him on,
so he broke it down to me. In this the
(18:00):
Schofield Bible was written, it's a reference Bible. To be
clear here, it's not actual Bible. It's essentially the footnote
so ible Bible having around me.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
It's the nid.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
There's footnotes at the bottom. Those footnotes tell you some
of the verses. It might say like Jesus, brethren, all
this king old English that's hard to read. And then
the footnote might be this is what Jesus is saying.
Jesus says, love thy neighbor.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And you're like, oh right, thank you, got it.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
So the Schofield Bible is actually not the beginning of
this movement of this support of Israel. It actually goes
back to John Darby in the eighteen sixties, who was
an Irish lawyer who was essentially fed up with the
Anglican Church, and he then creates this idea of this
idea of dispensationalism, and dispensational has two major facets. One
(18:48):
of them is the idea that there's two chosen people
and that God's promised to the people of Israel still stands.
So if you're you know, the Jewish Israel, there's a
promise there that still stands. And then there's seven eras
or epochs, whatever you want to call it of time,
and then that when Jesus came down and he died
(19:10):
for our sins, you know, those prophecies of the Old
Testament still need to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
And so you know what ends up happening.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
There is this take swing all over the US and
the evangelical churches in the South specifically, and then you
see this growth of this idea. Now, a theologian expert
will tell you that, like, actually, if you look at
the translations, there's some mistranslations here. And I want to
be very sensitive about this because it's a topic that
(19:43):
I think is very charged and can be hard to
understand and requires also complete biblical breakdown and actual translations.
So when Cyrus Rofield as a lawyer or yes, he
was a politician lawyer in like the eighteen sixties eighteen seventies.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
He has a very shady history.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He essentially got caught for tax fraud, was in jail
apparently in Canada. He abandoned his family, and then there
was this guy in his town and this guy essentially
brought him to Christ.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
God bless him.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
That's amazing, and converts, and you know, some things start
to happen that don't make sense. If you look at
the paper trailer, you start to realize that he never
returned to his family, so his a family was abandoned
within converting. Three years from that, he then actually becomes
a lead pastor out of Dallas Seminary Church over there,
(20:34):
and then D. L. Moody then, you know, if you
know the church space dal Moody Moody is massive, brings
him over to Massachusetts where he leads a congregation there
and a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Then this is where the conspiratorial.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Mind goes, because it's like, all right, this guy was
call it a drunk tax of Asian criminal. All these
charges somehow disappear. He's now leading a church in Massachon
sits and the next thing you know, there is this
thing about him going into the Lotus Club in New
York where he meets this famous Zionist lawyer named Samuel Untemayer. Now,
(21:13):
I think this needs to be very clear on where
I believe on this, so people think this Samuel Untemayer
saw Schofield and realized this guy was thinking about creating
a reference Bible and was like, I'm going to fund
this guy so he can push Israeli ideas and that
we can return to the homeland.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I don't think it's that at all.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think that's where a lot of people think, like, look,
the Jews are behind everything, and.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
You're throwing the baby out the bathwater. I think it's
one of those things where you look at it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
At the time, there was also this group called the
Plymouth Brethren Brothers and they had this dispensationless idea of
Israel about we were turning the Jewish people back to
their homeland, and it was a very common thing spoken
about during that time period about this returning of the.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Jewish people back to the homeland.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And he's then part of this elite club, and of
course there's some people that are Zionists, and then you
have Jewish and Christians and whatnot. And he then gets
some funding from these Plymouth Brethren and he goes to Europe,
does a whole like two three years in Europe going
to the churches. Apparently he's very ill. And then this
is where we get to our next conspiracy that needs
(22:25):
to be laid out, which I don't believe in again,
is the Oxford Oxford Press, which is the preeminent pressing
institution in the world, academic pressing institution, decides to print
the Schofield Reference Bible, and so everyone's red flags go up,
being like, how did this nobody, all of a sudden
now get a Bible reference Bible being printed all over
(22:48):
the world.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
It had the Jews made it happen the Jews. Elady
probably back better scream of the Jews, like the Jews
control everything, which obviously didn't happen, So why did they
print it? Do we know?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So from what we gather and realize is that Plymouth
Brethren were funding and pushing for Schofield to press this.
But the thing is people need to also take some context.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Is this is a time where a lot of you know,
Americans were just not educated, and that the ability to
translate the Bible and have footnotes would help a lot
of people in their faith understand the teachings of Jesus.
And so they thought this is a great idea. And
at the same time people are like, what about the credentials.
It's not It wasn't like today where it's like you
need to go to Hear, Hear Hear, have this credentials
(23:30):
on your resume and you're set to go. It was
one of those things where it's like, well, this guy
had D. L. Moody, he'd been all over. We like
what he's writing.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
This is good.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And then they greenlit it, and then a lot of
people are like, oh my god, this is hilarious because
the roth Child's funded it. But it's like again, people
take the baby and throatut with the bathwater. It's like, yes,
the roth Child's were a big funders of the Oxford
Academic Press.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Is it one of.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Those things where you know the Rothschild's being a very
Jewish family, wealthy banking family, did they see also possibly
an opportunity for them to print this reference Bible that
has a focus of the chosen people. Returning to the
homeland and that their prophecies are going to be instilled. Possibly,
I don't think it's as sinister as they're behind everything,
(24:14):
and he funded it. Again, I think people need to
spend a little time reading into that history, because it's
not as simple as maybe.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Some of these tiktoks people watch.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So you take it there, and then on top of it,
this Bible gets released in nineteen seven, nineteen oh nine
somewhere around there, and it becomes sensational. It just takes over,
just because again the education at the time people eager
and hungry to learn about the Word of God and
understand it. It just takes over the United States and
(24:43):
then the evangelical churches. It spreads throughout there in the
South and the Bible Belt as we know today, and
that's essentially the birth of Christian Zionism.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
In many regards, it is a LESSI Allaman. You know,
it begs a couple of questions. First of all, why
do so many people assume that anything the Rothschild's funded
is bad or nefarious. That's the first dumb thing. But
I think the most important question is is the translation
and the explanation and the dispensation that's given by the
Schofield Bible. Is it truthful or did they spin it?
(25:15):
If it's objectively true, then the whole argument goes out
the window, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes, And again I would recommend having an expert go
through the actual explaining why it isn't. But from what
I gathered from the experts I spoke to, you know, essentially,
if you look at what the translation is, what it's
saying is that the Jewish people, the Chosen people, they're
saying in this Bible, don't have to believe in Jesus Christ,
(25:41):
their Lord and savior, and they have a right to homeland.
It kind of contradicts the New Testament of what Jesus says,
especially in Matthew twenty four to thirty six, where it says,
you know, you have to believe in me solely, you know,
like you believe in Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior.
You know you're going to go to heaven John three sixteen.
For God's who love the world, that he gave his
only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish,
(26:03):
but have eternal life. So you look at a few
verses in the New Testament versus what this dispensationless idea
is talking about there's contradictions. There, very clear contradictions, and
the biggest ones, which you know, it's a whole. Other
tangent is that a lot of it became very sensationalized
in media through book series and movies like The Left Behind,
(26:26):
as well as Oh my God, how Lindsay's book. I
can't remember what the book was called.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I don't know. Greater as smart as Juice, I don't know.
But well, let me say this because I think this
is an interesting thing to add. Maybe because I'm saying it,
I think it's interesting. Maybe it's not. But again, I
believe in the Promised Land and the people chosen for
that land. But I also believe that you have to
accept Jesus as your Lord and savior to make your
way to heaven. So if people who are watching listening
are Jewish, I love them. They're my brothers, they're my sisters.
(26:53):
Judeo Christian values rock the world. I love it. But
having said that, I truly believe that they're going to
realie that Jesus was the Lord and Savior on their
on their path to heaven as they leave this earth.
So it's not it's not contradictory to me. Maybe I
didn't read this Caroll filled Bible, you know well enough,
but I do believe that's the promised land of the
showsen people. But I also believe you've got to accept
(27:14):
Jesus Christ as the son of or part of the
cry you in God to make your way to heaven.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yes, I hear what you're saying, and I think this
is where, you know, again, it gets complicated because when
it comes down to it is do you believe Jesus Christ,
your Lord and Savior?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Right?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
That's that's that's the that's the question to be asked.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And in the Bible is very clear that you can
only believe in one God, and that one God is
Jesus Christ. And so again, I love my Jewish brothers,
I love my Muslim brothers.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I love atheists from California. I know those people.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
But when it really comes down to it, and I
know this is not a on topic for some people
to hear, it's like, if you're going to get to
the new Heaven, new heaven on earth, and you're going
to spend the eternity with Jesus Christ, that's the requirement.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
There's race and mercy is going to have for you.
But that is the number one requirement.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So if you don't believe that the rest of it,
it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Very interesting, it's Alessi Alaman. Go and follow him over
on YouTube. It's at A L E S S I
A L L A M A N. It's a great
YouTube channel. He's a great storyteller, great creator. Let me
finish with this, is US policy our foreign policy? Is
it a reflection of the Bible biblical teachings or is
it a reflection of modern geopolitics, because I think we
(28:30):
try to pretend that it's both, but I don't think
it can be both.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I don't think it can be both.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I think recently, when you have like an article come
out of you know, military personnel coming forward that there's
some generals and people saying that you know, Pete Hegseth
and some people are encouraging that an Armageddon end Times
battle is coming ahead, you start to wonder if how
much of the Bible and how much of you know,
religious texts eschatology is influencing this current cabinet. You know,
(29:01):
that was strange to hear when there was over two
hundred reports of people coming up in the military saying,
you know, I'm having my whatever, lieutenant, my guy above
me saying that, you know, get ready for this end
times war right now in the Middle East. Again, no
one knows the day, the hour, the time, and when
Jesus comes back. So that's also bad theology. So I
don't know who is doing that. And the other thing
(29:23):
too is I think of the poor atheist and the
people that don't know Christ, and you're pushing them away
when you're telling them these things because they're like this
sounds like a bunch of balogney, and it's like I
can empathize with them because it's like, yeah, you think
this is your first experience with Christianity, this is your
first experience maybe hearing about something in relation to the Bible,
and it has to do with your job being the military,
(29:44):
and they're saying you have to abide by it.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's like, what are we doing here? That's not our country?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Like, right, come on now, I hadn't even heard about
that before. So you're literally hearing from people that are
enlisted that are saying that that's happening.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, there was a major report and it was like
two hundred anonymous people came forward and they were essentially saying,
our generals are telling us to get ready for this
end time's battle, which is again not biblically accurate.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So I don't know what's pushing that, you know, I think.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
It's hard to say, because you know, who am I
to judge someone's relationship with Jesus.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I'm not someone to judge that.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And I know that there are people within Trump's circle
that are Christians and do believe Jesus Christ or Lord
and Savior. Yeah, but then again, it's like you also
want to call out incorrect theology or incorrect speaking of
his teachings, and Jesus even says those who teach will
be judged more harshly than those who are just abiding,
(30:40):
so you know, for their own sake, I want to
look out for them.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, take a breath and maybe stop what you're doing,
because you're getting judged pretty harshly. It is Alessi oloman
A Lessi before I let you go, tell those watching
and listening exactly what they'll find when they go to
your YouTube channel at Alessi oloman Well, Joe.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Thank you again for having me. I want to say
first off, thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
You come to my channel, you're going to see some
podcasts with me and experts, as well as some podcasts
with my brother in law Will where we kind of
talk about the week and things that are happening. And
then probably the fan favorite which people come to my
channel for, are these long form documentaries where I have
k our mutual friend here who has helped me with
a few of them. Do these deep dive documentaries where
(31:21):
I'm essentially researching for a couple of weeks. K Our
recent one with the Maui Fires, research that for a
few months, and we try to come together and put
out this beautiful piece where people can be engaged to
watch our content, but also we're calling balls and strikes.
And when I'm gonna speculate, I'm going to tell you
so you don't think I'm trying to make you think
one way or another. You know, I'm just here to
(31:43):
share what happened. And then when I speculate, it's pure.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Spec I've got to see that one man, because we
still have no clue. I have no clue what really
went down in Maui. There's a lot there are a
lot of questions there that I need answered. So is
that up already? Can we go check that out now
where it's going to be up soon?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yes, it's up right now, So I go check that
out out again.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Kay did all the heavy lifting on that, and then
I went through it, and she did a tremendous job.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
And then you know, all I did was bring it
to the finish line.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
ALESSI all ofm at Alessie Elliman, go and follow him
right now, Go subscribe. I appreciate the time. Let's do
this again as you come up with more of these
stories that my audience would be interested in. I'd love
to continue to collab with you.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Okay, absolutely, if you're wanting to have me, I'm more
than happy to.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
All right, brother, really nice to meet your great job today.
I appreciate that. That's it for this one. I'm shaking
un afraid with Joe PAGs. Make sure you subscribe. We'll
drop another one very soon.
I've wanted to know since day one everything, ALESSI. I
don't think that we should be anything should be hidden
from us. Why should we be in the dark. We
were told three million pages, ten million pages. The Southern
District of New York has a truckload of pages. They're
on my desk, said Pam Bondy. Why don't we know
everything about Epstein?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, definitely seems like there's some level of cover up,
and that doesn't just mutually keep it that it's just
the Trump cabinet by any means.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I think it's been something that's been going on for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You know, the Biden administration had four years and they
didn't discuss it once, and it makes you wonder, you know,
why wasn't that brought up. But then of course when
it comes down Epstein under the Trump admin they're very
happy to go after and for that. So it really
seems like it's a cover up at the highest level.
And again this is all puer speck or I like
to say speculation. I don't have any evidence as to
(00:54):
who might behind it, what's behind it. But we do
know is there's still three million files. You know that
it seems to be in the hands of the Trump Admin.
They have the capability to release it. We've seen prominent
congress people like Marjorie Taylor Green who have called out
and said we should release it, and apparently there's been
some conversations with her and Trump on her last days
(01:14):
working as a congresswoman and essentially put it in the
phrase that you know, there's some friends of mine that
can get hurt.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Apparently that's what was allegedly spoken.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So I don't know what that means, but optically speaking,
it doesn't necessarily look good for the Trump Admin. People
my age are right now very confused because he ran
on it and he didn't need to, that's the thing.
He didn't need to run on this, but he made
it a big policy where people ask him He's like, yeah,
I'm going to try to release it. And then day one,
you know, they had that whole thing where they gathered
(01:45):
all the conservative influencers. They went out read the piece
of paper being like, we got the files. Yeah, And
it turns out it was everything we kind of already knew.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, and there was nothing new in there. Well, let
me piggyback on this. But Nancy Mace also wanted them
released and she says she was gonna name names. But
let's speculate together about the Biden administration not releasing anything.
And the reason why I want to go there is
they indicted Trump ninety one times between the time he
was the president and the time he became the president again.
(02:15):
Ninety one times. They did everything, in my opinion, to
stop this guy from running and winning again, and they
failed in those four years. Even if Biden was afraid
that his name would show up or some friends name,
they could have reacted all of that and released everything
that would have implicated Donald Trump. So I make the
assumption that Trump himself is not implicated criminally in anything
(02:37):
that's in the Epstein files, So why then aren't we
getting all of it? It cann't be as simple as
my friends might get hurt. And why didn't Biden release anything?
If they had the goods on Trump, wouldn't they have
released it to stop him from becoming president again?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
You would think so. Again, it's such a complicated issue
at this point, where again I tend to believe that
it's not just a one party thing. I think it
seems to be two types. Both parties involved people that
have been obviously shown in it. You know you have recently,
I think the greatest example of this being more than
just a two party system, but one party uniting on
(03:12):
this topic is you have Bill Clint.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Depositions that took place. And the reason I bring those
up is he went out of his way.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
A guy who is a fierce rival and his wife,
Hillary Clinton, fierce rival of Trump in the twenty fifteen election,
he went out of his way to say I just
want to say also that Trump's not implicated.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Now I don't know what that means, but this is
a fierce rival.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
This is a guy in twenty fifteen, right before the
Missouri or the presidential debate between Hillary and Trump, goes
on stage and accuses Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting and
you know, doing the horrific things to women. And earlier
that day held a press conference with all the accused
women that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Vis Clinton reluxively touched right all those things.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And this is of course during the time of the
Hollywood Access tape.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So you think of the timing of that where it's like, joy,
I would say.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
If you ever accused me of some horrific crime like that,
I don't think I would be your friend. I think
if you're making those shots and calling that against me,
I would be.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Furious and angry. But then you have this guy, almost
a decade.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Later on the Epstein deposition, going out of his way,
not even being questioned about this from the congressional people
that were there in the House committee, and saying, I
also want to put out that it Trump had.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Nothing to do with this or whatever. Optically it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
You look at the timeline, it just I can't help
but say there's something there, there's a thread that needs
to be pulled on. I don't know why he would
go out his way to do that, because again, like
I said, if I ever accused you of something like that,
I doubt, even ten years later, you would go out
of your way to almost defend me in some capacity.
In regards to you, this would be the nail on
(04:58):
the coffin if you wanted to end Trump right there,
nail the coffin.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I tend to think and that again I'm not
saying Trump at all is the things that are being
said about him. There's no actual evidence saying he's done anything.
And as you mentioned, but optically speaking, you wonder in
terms of the two parties. Why there hasn't been something
done in the last eight years at least, especially since
twenty nineteen when Epstein allegedly died.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, it's Alessie Alloment. Go and follow him over on YouTube.
Alessi eloman all one word over on YouTube. Great storyteller,
incredible YouTube creator. I'm glad to have you on today.
Let me ask you somebody you mentioned in passing, why
are people eighteen to thirty five so interested in the story?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I think a lot of it has to do with
one the whole thing of you have this guy that
has intelligence links to possibly the Masade and CIA, so espionage,
that's the topic that interests.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Many young people.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yes, you know, you think James Bond films, You think
of the Americans' homeland that were in the Zeitgeis that
people were just fascinated by. But then you find out
that this guy's like a multi billionaire, he's trafficking young girls,
he has an island like it sets the stage for
like a James Bond film, Like you would think, like
(06:15):
this guy is literally a James Bond villain, And so
personally speaking, you become interested in it. And then once
you start to find out the horrific details that there
are so many a list celebrities involved, so many people
like Prince Andrew, the Royal family implicated buddy of this
random New York guy from Long Island.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Epstein, You're like, who is this? Who is this kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Mister magoodoo that shows up everywhere and anywhere? And then
he has tied all these people. He's got photos with Oprah,
photos with Bill Gates, photos with Michael Jackson.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
You're just like, what the heck? How do I not
know about this guy? Why is he not all over
the place?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And then after his again alleged death, the suspicions just
ran ran up, you know, in that whatever it was
July or August twenty nineteen, when he supposedly offed himself,
it was so clear his day to everyone my age
being like, there's no way this guy died. When you
say the cameras went out, you're saying that all of
a sudden, that the guys took the shift, the security guards.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Weren't there at the right time, right, nothing was adding up.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And then apparently, and again I could be corrected on this,
that they took out a double body, another body out
so the camera people wouldn't take photos of it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
None of it is making sense.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And so because of that, people like myself, a lot
of people my age, we've gone ahead and decided to
do these deep dive investigations and then credit to the
Trump cabinet. They did release three million files, they did
release a two hour interview of Steve Bannon and Epstein,
where we now.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Have something to work with. But again there's supposedly another
three six million.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Who knows, ALESSI all of it. He is a great
creator for on YouTube. If you were under oath and
could possibly spend a lot of time in prison, if
you didn't give the right answer, what would you say
or who would you say? Epstein was? Through your deep
dives and your storytelling you your documentary or your documenting
of all this. Who was Jeffrey Epstein in your mind?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
If you put a gun to my head, I would
say he is an access agent that worked for the Masade.
And then in two thousand and eight, probably around that
time when Alexander Costa and Florida gave him that sweetheart deal,
it seems that you know, the CIA also knew about
him at that time. So I think the CIA saw
his value because from what I've heard from former CIA officers,
(08:35):
an access agent is valuable in the sense of, you know,
if you're going to recruit a Bill Clinton, you can't
just go like, oh, I'm going to get blackmail whatever
he's do whatever I want.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Apparently it's not that easy. Again, that's what they say.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
So in order to get someone right there one below,
you find someone like an Epstein who's in that inner circle.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You know, he was a donor to Bill.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Clinton's nineteen ninety one election in is at a couple
of the White House, I think seventeen times something like that.
So he's right there, he's in that inner circle. He's
intimately knowing all the people that are involved. So you
get access to that guy, you use Epstein, and then
from there you can then build whatever you need and
get access to the information to then whatever get back.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
To your HQ, whatever country you're trying to help.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
In that case, do you think that Trump screwed it
all up in the early two thousands because he literally
did kick Epstein out of mar A Lago. Epstein was
treating a member's daughter badly and Trump got him out
of mar A Lago. But then we also have official
records that he contacted the local authorities and said, you
got to do something about this Epstein guy. Do you
think that he screwed it up somehow, because again I
don't know why he's not just just signing, let's release everything.
(09:47):
I'm with you. I couldn't agree with you more. And
I do think that there might be some protection of
friends going on. But in the day, he didn't mind
telling the authorities this guy's a bad dude, You've got
to do something about him. And he kicked him out
of his club. What have you found out in research
that part of it?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
That part of it, it seems again very credible in
the sense that he tried to kick out that girl
that or kick out Epstein because of what he was
doing there. And again I guess the trail kind of
goes cold there in terms of the relation with Trump.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So we don't really have any specifics from.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
That point onwards in terms of the relation, if it
was there or not. So you know, we've had I've
seen interviews of Mark Epstein, which is Jeffrey Epstein's brother,
he only last living relative, and he's made claims that
in confidence him and Epstein, who were strange and became close,
very suspect character. Nonetheless, he made comments being like, if
(10:38):
you knew what I knew on both these candidates, referring
to Clinton and Trump during that twenty fifteen election cycle.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
We would have we wouldn't have an election.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So I don't even know if that's necessarily anything. It
could be just a nothing burger, but it seems to
check out in terms of what he did there back
in two thousand and four.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You know, I think we I think it's who was it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think it was a late Senator John McCain's wife
or somebody said they were like, we knew about this
Epstein guy. Everyone knew his reputation, so it wasn't like
this is some bombshell thing in two thousand and eight
with that sweetheart deal. Before then, everyone knew, like, there
was this guy. He had an island. He's bringing all
these young girls around. People want to go to the
(11:20):
island because it's a good time.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Or whatever they think. So he there was a reputation
about this guy.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What's amazing about the entire thing is, I'm with you,
I don't know if he's dead or alive. I mean,
there's a legitimate question as to whether this guy really died.
He doesn't appear to have been a guy that we've
seen on these videos of of his testimony and depositions
that would never ever harm himself. He's really very full
of himself. I don't think this is a guy that
(11:49):
would just say, ah, I'm not going to stay in
the Metro, you know, New York whatever. The holding place
was much longer. Let me put this sheet around my neck.
It doesn't make any sense. And you're right, the camera
all going out and what guard fell asleep and there
was a change in shift and buh ba bup. What
do you think really happened? And are you convinced that
he's dead? I'm guessing not because you've said allegedly killed
(12:09):
himself a few times. Is he still with us?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
So if you asked me this four months ago, I
would have said he's probably dead. And then Julian Dorry
went with former CIA operator Andrew Bustimani and they recreated
the entire cell and they actually brought in Epstein's old cellmate.
They brought in a forensic expert, and they staged it
to a t what it looked like to like the
(12:34):
most minor details from what they have in the photographs,
and if you watch that Discovery episode with Julian and
Andrew Bustimani going through it, it's very clear it is
entirely possible they got him out of there and that
they used a body double or something. I don't know
if that's actually what happened, but I'm ninety five percent
(12:57):
convinced that he's still alive.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And by the way, wait, there's a minute missing in
the in the video that was released by the FBI
under Cash Hotel and Dan Bongino, and nobody ever said
what happened in the minute. We're like, well, why is
there a minute missing? They're like, ah, this is the
whole tape, don't worry about it. So there is something
hinky going on there. But if you again, gun to
your head. The guy was a an influence peddler. He
was a blackmailer. He was a guy that had a
(13:20):
lot of goods on a lot of people. Maybe Masade,
maybe Cia, maybe neither. Who knows. Do you think we're
ever gonna find out? Is it is the truth going
to eventually come out?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I think there's a select few people out there who
probably know that information. In terms of release. The rest
of the files. You know, I think that's kind of
spitting in the wind. I think all those are all
the hard drives, I would imagine, are you know, scraped.
So I don't actually believe we're gonna get any more
of that information. But there are people who are alive
who know who knew him, who were around him. You know,
(13:53):
we got Dallayne Maxwell in prison allegedly, who's still you
know she's around. She should be investigator. That's we released
the public. We should know what's going on there. We
have Steve Bannon, a guy who was with him the
last three years up until he died, interviewing him with
over sixteen to eighteen hours of interview footage with Jeffrey Epstein,
(14:14):
making a documentary to rehab his image. I would love
to know what does he know. I think that guy
has a direct line. He had a direct line to him.
You know, he was planning from the files I read
that summer to go on a vacation, going to Zoro Ranch,
going to the Paris Townhouse, going to New York City townhouse,
all over that summer twenty nineteen with Epstein. And then
(14:35):
of course he gets arrested at Teterborough Airport in New
Jersey and that's the last of it. So that's someone
that I would love to see actually confront the two
hour interview footage that came out. Because since that two
hour interview interview footage came out on January thirty first,
so I'm not mistaken of this year, we haven't heard
a peep about that from the guy who actually conducted
(14:56):
that interview with Epstein. So, you know, I think that's
a great place to start with someone who was very
close to him in his last days.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And if you say what really went on there, people say, hey,
don't worry about it, don't don't bring that up. Now,
we're good. Can we move on? He was a low life.
I think that eventually we have to get more answers.
But I think that you hit on something that's very,
very very smart. This stuff probably doesn't exist anymore. Whatever
was the really really bad stuff, somebody scraped it, somebody
wiped it, somebody bleach bit it. They got rid of it,
and we're probably never gonna get the real story. I
(15:25):
just don't like the narrative that's out there now because
it's wholly unbelievable. It is a LESSI element. You've got
to go and follow him right now at Alessi element
Over on YouTube. He's a great storyteller, he's a documentarium,
he's a great creator on YouTube. It's always a fun
time to take the family to the movies. But why
spend thirty dollars when you can save a bunch of
money and get better programming and better entertainment. Why not
(15:45):
join the Angel Guild For just fifteen dollars a month.
You're gonna get two free tickets to see Young Washington
in theaters this Independence Day, plus tickets to future Angel
theatrical releases, and full access to Angel streaming Library. It's
one of the best entertainment values I've seen in a
very long time. Now, let's talk about that movie in
theaters this Independence Day. Young Washington tells the story of
(16:06):
George Washington before he became a general, before he became president,
and before he became a legend. At just twenty years old,
Washington faced failure, setbacks, and near death experiences that would
have broken most people. Instead, those challenges forged the leader
who would help secure America's independence and future. It's a
powerful story of resilience, faith and purpose. Join the Guild today,
(16:28):
save a bunch of money. Get great program in great entertainment.
Receive your two free tickets right now by visiting angel
dot com slash PAGs angel dot com slash PAGs do
it right now.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
My name is George Washington.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Let me switch gears. I grew up where my grandfather
was from Italy, and I asked him one Dixie, So
pro is Man? This guy was pro Israel. Israel Israel
the Promised Land, the chosen people, promised Land, chosen people.
So I said, Grandpa, why do you care so much
about Israel? Tell me why? He said, well, that's the
Holy Land, Joey. And I said, okay, so the Holy Land?
And what well, Jesus was born there? Okay, got I
(17:15):
know where Jesus was born. But why are we so
like in support of whatever it takes to make sure
Israel is good? And he said, it's the promised Land
for the people that were chosen for that land. Now,
you talk a lot about the Scofield Bible. I'm not
really familiar with the Schorefield Bible. Is that belief system
my grandfather had from that version of the Bible?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
They have so explained how yes, So this is a
very complicated one.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Because there have been major conspiracy theories around the Schofield Bible.
And I actually spoke to an expert on this period
of history, Dan Hummel, probably the I would say, the
number one historian in terms of the history of a
dispensationalism Christian Zionism. He's been talking about this for two decades,
hasn't been on any podcast, Surprising Land. I brought him on,
so he broke it down to me. In this the
(18:00):
Schofield Bible was written, it's a reference Bible. To be
clear here, it's not actual Bible. It's essentially the footnote
so ible Bible having around me.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
It's the nid.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
There's footnotes at the bottom. Those footnotes tell you some
of the verses. It might say like Jesus, brethren, all
this king old English that's hard to read. And then
the footnote might be this is what Jesus is saying.
Jesus says, love thy neighbor.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And you're like, oh right, thank you, got it.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
So the Schofield Bible is actually not the beginning of
this movement of this support of Israel. It actually goes
back to John Darby in the eighteen sixties, who was
an Irish lawyer who was essentially fed up with the
Anglican Church, and he then creates this idea of this
idea of dispensationalism, and dispensational has two major facets. One
(18:48):
of them is the idea that there's two chosen people
and that God's promised to the people of Israel still stands.
So if you're you know, the Jewish Israel, there's a
promise there that still stands. And then there's seven eras
or epochs, whatever you want to call it of time,
and then that when Jesus came down and he died
(19:10):
for our sins, you know, those prophecies of the Old
Testament still need to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
And so you know what ends up happening.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
There is this take swing all over the US and
the evangelical churches in the South specifically, and then you
see this growth of this idea. Now, a theologian expert
will tell you that, like, actually, if you look at
the translations, there's some mistranslations here. And I want to
be very sensitive about this because it's a topic that
(19:43):
I think is very charged and can be hard to
understand and requires also complete biblical breakdown and actual translations.
So when Cyrus Rofield as a lawyer or yes, he
was a politician lawyer in like the eighteen sixties eighteen seventies.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
He has a very shady history.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He essentially got caught for tax fraud, was in jail
apparently in Canada. He abandoned his family, and then there
was this guy in his town and this guy essentially
brought him to Christ.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
God bless him.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
That's amazing, and converts, and you know, some things start
to happen that don't make sense. If you look at
the paper trailer, you start to realize that he never
returned to his family, so his a family was abandoned
within converting. Three years from that, he then actually becomes
a lead pastor out of Dallas Seminary Church over there,
(20:34):
and then D. L. Moody then, you know, if you
know the church space dal Moody Moody is massive, brings
him over to Massachusetts where he leads a congregation there
and a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Then this is where the conspiratorial.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Mind goes, because it's like, all right, this guy was
call it a drunk tax of Asian criminal. All these
charges somehow disappear. He's now leading a church in Massachon
sits and the next thing you know, there is this
thing about him going into the Lotus Club in New
York where he meets this famous Zionist lawyer named Samuel Untemayer. Now,
(21:13):
I think this needs to be very clear on where
I believe on this, so people think this Samuel Untemayer
saw Schofield and realized this guy was thinking about creating
a reference Bible and was like, I'm going to fund
this guy so he can push Israeli ideas and that
we can return to the homeland.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I don't think it's that at all.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think that's where a lot of people think, like, look,
the Jews are behind everything, and.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
You're throwing the baby out the bathwater. I think it's
one of those things where you look at it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
At the time, there was also this group called the
Plymouth Brethren Brothers and they had this dispensationless idea of
Israel about we were turning the Jewish people back to
their homeland, and it was a very common thing spoken
about during that time period about this returning of the.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Jewish people back to the homeland.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And he's then part of this elite club, and of
course there's some people that are Zionists, and then you
have Jewish and Christians and whatnot. And he then gets
some funding from these Plymouth Brethren and he goes to Europe,
does a whole like two three years in Europe going
to the churches. Apparently he's very ill. And then this
is where we get to our next conspiracy that needs
(22:25):
to be laid out, which I don't believe in again,
is the Oxford Oxford Press, which is the preeminent pressing
institution in the world, academic pressing institution, decides to print
the Schofield Reference Bible, and so everyone's red flags go up,
being like, how did this nobody, all of a sudden
now get a Bible reference Bible being printed all over
(22:48):
the world.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
It had the Jews made it happen the Jews. Elady
probably back better scream of the Jews, like the Jews
control everything, which obviously didn't happen, So why did they
print it? Do we know?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So from what we gather and realize is that Plymouth
Brethren were funding and pushing for Schofield to press this.
But the thing is people need to also take some context.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Is this is a time where a lot of you know,
Americans were just not educated, and that the ability to
translate the Bible and have footnotes would help a lot
of people in their faith understand the teachings of Jesus.
And so they thought this is a great idea. And
at the same time people are like, what about the credentials.
It's not It wasn't like today where it's like you
need to go to Hear, Hear Hear, have this credentials
(23:30):
on your resume and you're set to go. It was
one of those things where it's like, well, this guy
had D. L. Moody, he'd been all over. We like
what he's writing.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
This is good.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And then they greenlit it, and then a lot of
people are like, oh my god, this is hilarious because
the roth Child's funded it. But it's like again, people
take the baby and throatut with the bathwater. It's like, yes,
the roth Child's were a big funders of the Oxford
Academic Press.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Is it one of.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Those things where you know the Rothschild's being a very
Jewish family, wealthy banking family, did they see also possibly
an opportunity for them to print this reference Bible that
has a focus of the chosen people. Returning to the
homeland and that their prophecies are going to be instilled. Possibly,
I don't think it's as sinister as they're behind everything,
(24:14):
and he funded it. Again, I think people need to
spend a little time reading into that history, because it's
not as simple as maybe.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Some of these tiktoks people watch.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So you take it there, and then on top of it,
this Bible gets released in nineteen seven, nineteen oh nine
somewhere around there, and it becomes sensational. It just takes over,
just because again the education at the time people eager
and hungry to learn about the Word of God and
understand it. It just takes over the United States and
(24:43):
then the evangelical churches. It spreads throughout there in the
South and the Bible Belt as we know today, and
that's essentially the birth of Christian Zionism.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
In many regards, it is a LESSI Allaman. You know,
it begs a couple of questions. First of all, why
do so many people assume that anything the Rothschild's funded
is bad or nefarious. That's the first dumb thing. But
I think the most important question is is the translation
and the explanation and the dispensation that's given by the
Schofield Bible. Is it truthful or did they spin it?
(25:15):
If it's objectively true, then the whole argument goes out
the window, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes, And again I would recommend having an expert go
through the actual explaining why it isn't. But from what
I gathered from the experts I spoke to, you know, essentially,
if you look at what the translation is, what it's
saying is that the Jewish people, the Chosen people, they're
saying in this Bible, don't have to believe in Jesus Christ,
(25:41):
their Lord and savior, and they have a right to homeland.
It kind of contradicts the New Testament of what Jesus says,
especially in Matthew twenty four to thirty six, where it says,
you know, you have to believe in me solely, you know,
like you believe in Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior.
You know you're going to go to heaven John three sixteen.
For God's who love the world, that he gave his
only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish,
(26:03):
but have eternal life. So you look at a few
verses in the New Testament versus what this dispensationless idea
is talking about there's contradictions. There, very clear contradictions, and
the biggest ones, which you know, it's a whole. Other
tangent is that a lot of it became very sensationalized
in media through book series and movies like The Left Behind,
(26:26):
as well as Oh my God, how Lindsay's book. I
can't remember what the book was called.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I don't know. Greater as smart as Juice, I don't know.
But well, let me say this because I think this
is an interesting thing to add. Maybe because I'm saying it,
I think it's interesting. Maybe it's not. But again, I
believe in the Promised Land and the people chosen for
that land. But I also believe that you have to
accept Jesus as your Lord and savior to make your
way to heaven. So if people who are watching listening
are Jewish, I love them. They're my brothers, they're my sisters.
(26:53):
Judeo Christian values rock the world. I love it. But
having said that, I truly believe that they're going to
realie that Jesus was the Lord and Savior on their
on their path to heaven as they leave this earth.
So it's not it's not contradictory to me. Maybe I
didn't read this Caroll filled Bible, you know well enough,
but I do believe that's the promised land of the
showsen people. But I also believe you've got to accept
(27:14):
Jesus Christ as the son of or part of the
cry you in God to make your way to heaven.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yes, I hear what you're saying, and I think this
is where, you know, again, it gets complicated because when
it comes down to it is do you believe Jesus Christ,
your Lord and Savior?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Right?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
That's that's that's the that's the question to be asked.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And in the Bible is very clear that you can
only believe in one God, and that one God is
Jesus Christ. And so again, I love my Jewish brothers,
I love my Muslim brothers.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I love atheists from California. I know those people.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
But when it really comes down to it, and I
know this is not a on topic for some people
to hear, it's like, if you're going to get to
the new Heaven, new heaven on earth, and you're going
to spend the eternity with Jesus Christ, that's the requirement.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
There's race and mercy is going to have for you.
But that is the number one requirement.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So if you don't believe that the rest of it,
it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Very interesting, it's Alessi Alaman. Go and follow him over
on YouTube. It's at A L E S S I
A L L A M A N. It's a great
YouTube channel. He's a great storyteller, great creator. Let me
finish with this, is US policy our foreign policy? Is
it a reflection of the Bible biblical teachings or is
it a reflection of modern geopolitics, because I think we
(28:30):
try to pretend that it's both, but I don't think
it can be both.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I don't think it can be both.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I think recently, when you have like an article come
out of you know, military personnel coming forward that there's
some generals and people saying that you know, Pete Hegseth
and some people are encouraging that an Armageddon end Times
battle is coming ahead, you start to wonder if how
much of the Bible and how much of you know,
religious texts eschatology is influencing this current cabinet. You know,
(29:01):
that was strange to hear when there was over two
hundred reports of people coming up in the military saying,
you know, I'm having my whatever, lieutenant, my guy above
me saying that, you know, get ready for this end
times war right now in the Middle East. Again, no
one knows the day, the hour, the time, and when
Jesus comes back. So that's also bad theology. So I
don't know who is doing that. And the other thing
(29:23):
too is I think of the poor atheist and the
people that don't know Christ, and you're pushing them away
when you're telling them these things because they're like this
sounds like a bunch of balogney, and it's like I
can empathize with them because it's like, yeah, you think
this is your first experience with Christianity, this is your
first experience maybe hearing about something in relation to the Bible,
and it has to do with your job being the military,
(29:44):
and they're saying you have to abide by it.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's like, what are we doing here? That's not our country?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Like, right, come on now, I hadn't even heard about
that before. So you're literally hearing from people that are
enlisted that are saying that that's happening.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, there was a major report and it was like
two hundred anonymous people came forward and they were essentially saying,
our generals are telling us to get ready for this
end time's battle, which is again not biblically accurate.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So I don't know what's pushing that, you know, I think.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
It's hard to say, because you know, who am I
to judge someone's relationship with Jesus.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I'm not someone to judge that.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And I know that there are people within Trump's circle
that are Christians and do believe Jesus Christ or Lord
and Savior. Yeah, but then again, it's like you also
want to call out incorrect theology or incorrect speaking of
his teachings, and Jesus even says those who teach will
be judged more harshly than those who are just abiding,
(30:40):
so you know, for their own sake, I want to
look out for them.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, take a breath and maybe stop what you're doing,
because you're getting judged pretty harshly. It is Alessi oloman
A Lessi before I let you go, tell those watching
and listening exactly what they'll find when they go to
your YouTube channel at Alessi oloman Well, Joe.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Thank you again for having me. I want to say
first off, thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
You come to my channel, you're going to see some
podcasts with me and experts, as well as some podcasts
with my brother in law Will where we kind of
talk about the week and things that are happening. And
then probably the fan favorite which people come to my
channel for, are these long form documentaries where I have
k our mutual friend here who has helped me with
a few of them. Do these deep dive documentaries where
(31:21):
I'm essentially researching for a couple of weeks. K Our
recent one with the Maui Fires, research that for a
few months, and we try to come together and put
out this beautiful piece where people can be engaged to
watch our content, but also we're calling balls and strikes.
And when I'm gonna speculate, I'm going to tell you
so you don't think I'm trying to make you think
one way or another. You know, I'm just here to
(31:43):
share what happened. And then when I speculate, it's pure.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Spec I've got to see that one man, because we
still have no clue. I have no clue what really
went down in Maui. There's a lot there are a
lot of questions there that I need answered. So is
that up already? Can we go check that out now
where it's going to be up soon?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yes, it's up right now, So I go check that
out out again.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Kay did all the heavy lifting on that, and then
I went through it, and she did a tremendous job.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
And then you know, all I did was bring it
to the finish line.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
ALESSI all ofm at Alessie Elliman, go and follow him
right now, Go subscribe. I appreciate the time. Let's do
this again as you come up with more of these
stories that my audience would be interested in. I'd love
to continue to collab with you.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Okay, absolutely, if you're wanting to have me, I'm more
than happy to.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
All right, brother, really nice to meet your great job today.
I appreciate that. That's it for this one. I'm shaking
un afraid with Joe PAGs. Make sure you subscribe. We'll
drop another one very soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com