July 22, 2026 • 37 mins
High-profile activist and podcaster Riley Gaines joins Joe Pags to break down the most urgent story in the country right now. From dynamic updates inside the courtroom to the shocking evidence coming to light, Riley provides rare, insider perspective on what this case reveals about modern campus security and the high stakes facing public figures today. Plus, Joe and Riley call out the "industry vultures" capitalizing on the cultural fallout and discuss what comes next for conservative movement leaders on the frontlines.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To kind of go back to Charlie's assassination. This isn't
something that I've talked about a lot, but being you know,
thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant at the time when
I saw that he had been murdered, and understanding that
I had sat right there beside him. I'd been on
these campuses, one of the most hostile San Francisco State University.
We sat under that same tent together and did this.
I recognize that could have been me, and that was
(00:21):
a terrifying thought, being thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant,
and so I vowed to myself right then and there
when I saw this video, I was never ever going
to step foot on a college campus again.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
There is so much going on that I think my
next guest is going to have incredible expertise and commentary
on Charlie Kirk that whole trial about. I can't believe
that our friend was assassinated less than a year ago. Finally,
this is getting a hearing, and what we're seeing coming
out of there is very strange. We're to talk about
that the Supreme Court recently said, yes, states can say
(00:51):
girls sports are for girls. We have that we also
have Caitlin Clark getting her ass kicked on the basketball
court every night. I've got to go to a star
athlete in her own right a twelve time. All of
that and swimmer it is our friend Riley Gaines. Riley,
how are you going to see it?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Oh my gosh, it is so funny to hear myself
described as an athlete because it feels like a past life, right,
so I can get old. I'm kind of expired now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, it's certainly not inspired. Jale goes, Oh no, no,
stop it. We're going to get to that how your
life has changed since we first met in a bit.
But let's start with what's going on right now. You
sat next to Charlie Kirk at some of these get
togethers in college campuses. I had Charlie on my show
six different times. We were texting in the days before
he ended up dying. When you watch this unfold, it
(01:34):
seems surreal to me. What do you see when you
see that we're talking about your friend, a real person
that just doesn't hear anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You know what, It's honestly been super duper hard for
me to grapple with what nearly ten months ago now
I think back to when you know, I don't have
that many moments in my life, being now twenty six
at the time twenty five years old, I don't have
that many moments where you'll never forget where you were
when you heard news. Right of course, I was one
(02:02):
years old when nine to eleven happened. That that's a
lot of people what they remember. For me, I have two,
I would say, the first one being when President Trump
was shot in Butler, Pennsylvania, where of those, we'll never
forget where you were. And secondly, when Charlie Kirk was shot.
I was thirty eight maybe thirty nine weeks pregnant at
the time. I get a phone call from a colleague
(02:24):
and says, hey, like, are you okay? Very frantic, and
I'm confused. I'm like, what do you mean? Am I okay? Yes,
I'm perfectly fine. I'm in the line at Chick fil a,
like my life actually could not be any better right now.
And then he told me, look, Charlie Kirk has been shot,
and you know, what do you do? You immediately open
up social media and I met with this video that
I convinced myself was AI. I convinced myself it wasn't real.
(02:46):
It's a video that will live in my head for
the rest of forever. I wish I never saw this video.
And I lived in a state of total disbelief and
shock and confusion right watching the news and seeing that
black and white obituary style photo and hearing Charlie Kirk
talked about in past tense and was and were, and
seeing the date at the bottom, you know, the year
he was born through twenty twenty five. It was confusion
(03:09):
and disbelief, and then it turned into grief and tearfulness,
and then I'm not proud, but it turned into anger
and rage watching people celebrate this online. Mostly what I
noticed too, the people who were celebrating this it came
from three categories healthcare workers, which is incredibly concerning. These
are people who are supposed to be entrusted in saving
our lives. Well, guess what, Joe, if you and I
(03:31):
were on the operating table, you have to imagine they
wouldn't try as hard to save us. The people at
least who I saw celebrating online.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh, you're one hundred percent right. No, no, let me stop
you there, because you're one hundred percent right. I'm glad
and I'm not glad at something happen to Charlie. Don't
get me wrong, but I'm glad these people showed who
they really are, because you're right, you or me or
your husband or my wife on that table, knowing who
we are, we now know what they would have done gladly.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
One hundred percent. One hundred percent, which is a pretty
scary thought. And that's not limited to just you or
I or people with big platforms. It's anyone who voted
for President Trump, who has conservative values, who believed that
Jesus Christ was sent to this world, walked and lived
a perfect life, who died on the cross for our sins,
rose again three days later with the hope and the
promise of eternal life. If you believe that, maybe they
(04:16):
wouldn't try as hard to save you on the operating table. Secondly,
I saw school teachers celebrating this again deeply concerning when
you think about these are the people who are entrusted
in educating the next generation. And third, I saw tons
of government employees, so that means people who you and
I taxpayers pay the salaries of celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination,
(04:37):
all while claiming to be virtuous and kind and compassionate
and inclusive and tolerant and embrace diversity whatever, none of
those people embrace diversity. They certainly don't embrace diverse thought Anyways,
all of that to say, it's been really hard to
know how to move forward right, both speaking from a
(04:58):
cultural perspective, how to we move forward with one of
the most probably the most intellectual, effective articulate minds of
our time, who was again taken far too soon. But
I think in witnessing the fracture that we've seen, specifically
among the right, how do you combat that people who
I would very very much describe as podcast vultures, who
(05:19):
I think are I mean capitalizing immensely off of Charlie
Kirk's assassination and the insane theories and conspiracies that they
come up with. But watching this trial, even I don't
know what my role is here, if I even have
a role at all, Not to make it about me,
but in just thinking about how I approach it online
(05:39):
do you talk about it? Obviously I'm no legal expert.
I don't know the legal legalities of it. But what
I do know is Charlie was a friend to me.
He was a mentor to me. He believed in me
when he really had no reason to. And here's what
I'll say about his incredible bride, now his widow, Ericakirk.
She is one of the strongest, most compassionate, amazing human
(06:02):
beings that I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. And
so the relentless attacks against her quite frankly, I just
really can't make sense of them. I really can't. As
a common sense thinking person, very inquisitive, right, I'm never put,
you know, asking questions off the table. I think it's
silly to assume that those of us who don't believe
that Erko was behind it aren't inquisitive. We don't want
the truth or justice because I guess what, of course
(06:24):
I want those things.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
But to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Relentlessly attack the wife of his the wife of Charlie,
and the father of his children, all while claiming to
be his friend is absolutely insane.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It is I want to let me jump in liver.
Remind people who we have, of course, that they can
see you. They know it's Riley Gaines. Go to at
Riley Gaines on all the platforms. Actually it's actually Riley
Gaines Barker on one of them. Isn't it.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah? On Instagram it's Riley G. Barker.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Okay, go and follow Riley everywhere a huge platform. Obviously
we know Riley and you know Riley. But when you
just talked about when we found out and I don't
want to harp on this, but I was at the
gym in my car, about to do a short video
for one of the platforms, sitting in my car at
the gym, which is what I do a lot, and
I had a text from a friend at Fox News
and he said, Charlie Kirk shot and I said, no,
(07:13):
what are you talking about? Is he okay? We don't know,
And then we started hearing some rumblings that he was
going to be okay. He's at the hospital and he's
in he's in stable condition, which of course was absolutely untrue.
And then I like you sadly, and I wish I
hadn't watched the video sitting in the car because it
was released almost immediately, that was being live streamed one rumble.
(07:33):
So I saw it and I went, that's not good.
That's really bad. And getting away from that because I
don't want to. I don't want to harp on that
scene that everybody watching and listening probably has seen it
by now as well. I do want to harp on
what you just said at the end, when people who
claim to be his friend are making allegations that they
haven't put two and two together, they haven't tied anything
to truth. They keep on saying watch me again tomorrow,
(07:55):
and really, we're really going to give you the nitty
gritty we what we uncovered in our investigation, Riley. It's nuts.
And these people are making thirty forty fifty sixty thousand
dollars a day, just like you said, being an internet vulture,
a podcast vulture, just feeding off of the legacy of
Charlie Kirk. What I want to see happen is those
teachers and those medical workers and those podcasters actually listen
(08:19):
to what Charlie said in his very short life, because
if you listen to what he said, you can't hate
the guy. If you listen to what he said, you
know he was right and he was bringing people together.
It bothers me to my core. And maybe you can
expand upon this a little bit as well. How we're
fighting ourselves on the right, the conservatives are sitting here
fighting ourselves as you've got Nazi tattoo guy in Maine
(08:39):
running as you've got somebody in Colorado who hates the
country just one a primary. If you've got Mamdani in
New York who doesn't it can't stay in the country.
We on the right that should be keeping it together,
And if Charlie were still around, I think we'd be
doing a better job. Well, while we're fighting each other,
we're watching the destruction of the country, something that I
guess you and I didn't even realize that the enormity
(09:01):
of Charlie's presence was keeping us together. Speak to that
if you don't mind, I don't want to harp on
when he died. We're going to get hopefully we'll get justice,
and this hearing will end up being a trial and
will end up being something. Hopefully his family can get justice.
But how do we stop this infighting on our side?
Can we? What do we do?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You know? To the justice point, I don't think we'll
ever see worldly justice, but I take comfort in knowing
we serve a very just God, and everyone you and
me included are going to have to answer to him
one day. And that's what allows me to move forward
honestly with a smile on my face amidst the chaos.
I don't think we'll see worldly justice. There's nothing that
(09:40):
could happen to Tyler Robinson or any institution behind Charlie
Kirk's death that would equate to justice in my eyes,
because again, Charlie Kirk isn't here but to speak to
what we have seen following his assassination, specifically from the right.
I think it shows us a couple things. First and foremost,
it shows us how Charlie Kirk really was the glue,
really was I can say, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I did. We'd had no clue how much he was
the glue, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I began to realize it prior to his untimely murder.
Really it was the R and C convention, of course,
leading up to the twenty twenty four election. What was
this July maybe of twenty twenty four. I saw some
pretty remarkable names at the R and C convention, people
like Amber Rose, who didn't you know, necessarily fit the
(10:27):
historical average conservative.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I learned at the time that Charlie Kirk was really
behind that same thing with RFK Bobby Kennedy who came
out and you know, left the race and endorsed President
Trump at a turning point event. Charlie Kirk was behind
that same thing with Tulsa Gabbard and understanding her involvement
with President Trump's cabinet, actually several of President Trump's cabinet members.
(10:52):
I saw how Charlie Kirk had his hand on this,
and how the President really did listen to him, and
how Charlie Kirk never ever ever wanted any credit for it,
He never wanted attention for it. He really wanted what
was best for the country. And that was a really
admirable thing for me to realize, you know, several months
maybe a year before his death, and now we're all
realizing it. Posts Charlie kirk assassination. So first and foremost,
(11:16):
it shows us that Charlie Kirk really was the glue. Secondly,
I think what his assassination has showed us is that
there are several people hiding, several people with big platforms
who who oftentimes even get the label of being far right.
I think they're really hiding behind the cloak of conservatism.
I don't think they're conservatives at all. No, we see
(11:38):
these people on the line saying, you know, I'm going
to vote for Democrats in twenty twenty six and twenty
twenty eight, you're not a conservative? Are you kidding me? Like,
if you're really going to consider the two alternatives, and look,
I'm not here to say that President Trump is a
perfect man and he's you know, we've seen a perfect administration. No,
of course, not unless Jesus Christ is on the ballot.
(11:59):
It is always going to be the lesser of two evils. Okay,
I recognize that. But if you're going to compare President
Trump versus Kamala Harris, who was the alternative in twenty
twenty four, and you say you would rather live under
a Kamala Harris United States of America, then you're not
a conservative. You're not far right or all right or
any of those labels that you're often given, because I
(12:20):
don't think I really have much in common with you
at all. So I think it's shown us that a
lot of people are hiding behind the cloak of conservatism
but really aren't conservatives.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's Riley Gaines at Riley Gaines just about everywhere. Check
out Riley G. Barker over on Instagram. Go check out
The Riley Gaines Show. Incredible podcast. You have come into
your own and I'm so super proud of you. I
want to finish on the Conservative break if we can
with this. They have to be doing it for the money. Now.
All of these people that were talking about have a
(12:50):
lot of money, which is what blows my mind. But
Tucker Carlson was the go to monologue when he was
on Fox. You could not not see that monologue every
night because you did. If you missed it, you missed
sort of the beacon of conservatism on Fox every single night.
Kendice Owen's was somebody who's been on my show. Tucker's
been on my show, Charlie was on my show a lot.
(13:10):
You come on my show a lot. These are people
that I thought were in our circle that believed in
the same value system, Western culture, Western civilization, Judeo Christian values,
raise a family, do it right, you know, don't commit crime.
But to come out and say like you just alluded to,
like Tucker the other day said I'm no longer in
the Republican Party. I don't care. Are you still conservative?
(13:32):
Are you saying that you would rather have had Kamala Harris?
You're probably too young to remember this, but let me
harken back to two thousand and nine when the Tea
Party happened. The tea party movement happened, and it was
a movement, it was one thing. Then what happened was
and thankfully nobody was assassinated to cause this. What happened
was they all wanted the power, They all wanted to
be the top dog on whatever that tea party thing was.
(13:53):
Then there were eighteen different, you know, fractured tea party organizers,
and it fell apart, and the left just sat by
and watched. Could happen? Riley? Are we just handing the
left a win by allowing for this division? It just
seems so weird to me.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's so hard to predict the future of politics because
I feel like a week in politics is equivalent to
like two years in the real world. It's hard to predict, honestly,
I think, as you know, so long as the left
continues to be as radical as they've become on virtually
every topic. It doesn't matter if we're talking border, it
doesn't matter if we're talking crime or homelessness or ever
(14:30):
any of the ideologies. Okay, they have become so far
removed from your average American, then maybe we won't. I
don't see you know, again, it's hard to predict, and
I'm certainly no political strategies. Maybe we won't suffer as
much harm and detriment as as Honestly, I think we
(14:52):
we kind of need to based on the discourse that
we have seen. But the left is so radical that
you can't imagine in a world where again they reclaim
any any more power than what they currently have in
Congress in the US inate now, I know, historically and
talking about the midterms and what is to come, I know,
(15:13):
historically when you have you know, a changeover in the
Oval office. Of course, now we have bresident Trump, and
they're historically we will see some of those red seats
turned blue. Right, that's just a matter of fact. So
I think we can expect that for sure, and that
wouldn't necessarily be out of norm. But the left is
so radical.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, no, it's so bad. You're right, But they one
by one are winning these really important seats, and I
think people are still sort of in a daze and
not realizing, and hopefully through your voice and through mind,
they will realize it. Let's shift gears a little bit
and talk about the Supreme Court. A couple of weeks ago,
did the right thing. And what's interesting is when you
and I started talking, I'm not even sure if you
were married yet. You certainly were with Charlie, but I'm
(15:54):
not sure if you were married yet, and you certainly
didn't have a baby yet. The most important thing to
you was that what was happening in sports, collegiate sports, specifically,
to you specifically, was just wrong. It was unfair, It
was wrong. It didn't make any sense. But what I
want to ask you about this is that now that
you're a young mother, this women in the Supreme Court,
(16:16):
that yes, girls' sports and women's sports can in fact
be protected by state laws. I get the feeling, correct
me if I'm wrong, that you're happier about this because
of your child. It's always a fun time to take
the family to the movies. But why spend thirty dollars
when you can save a bunch of money and get
better programming in better entertainment. Why not join the Angel
(16:36):
Guild For just fifteen dollars a month. You're gonna get
two free tickets to see Young Washington in theaters this
Independence Day, plus tickets to future Angel theatrical releases, and
full access to Angel streaming library. It's one of the
best entertainment values I've seen in a very long time. Now,
let's talk about that movie in theaters this Independence Day.
Young Washington tells the story of George Washington before he
(16:57):
became a general, before he became president, and before he
became a legend. At just twenty years old, Washington face failure, setbacks,
and near death experiences that would have broken most people. Instead,
those challenges forged the leader who would help secure America's
independence and future. It's a powerful story of resilience, faith
and purpose. Join the Guild today, save a bunch of money,
(17:18):
get great programming, great entertainment. Receive your two free tickets
right now by visiting angel dot com slash PAGs angel
dot com slash PAGs. Do it right now.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
You could not be more right. It's so funny when
I think of how I initially approach doesn't naturally understandably,
but I think I approached this issue kind of selfishly right,
relating it to my own personal experience, how I had
been harmed, my teammates had been harmed, the regression and
the violation and the betrayal that we saw that we
felt right. Of course, I still recognize it from that perspective,
(17:55):
but that's not necessarily what's important to me anymore, Right,
my own success or whatever you want to call it. No,
Now I think of my daughter, and at the time,
she was a hypothetical, like it was a potential. I certainly,
you know, I could only hope and pray that I
would have a daughter of my own one day. Well,
guess what, now she's here and I'll never forget holding
(18:16):
her in my arms for the first time. And to
kind of go back to Charlie's assassination, this isn't something
that I've talked about a lot, but being you know,
thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant at the time when
I saw that he had been murdered, and understanding that
I had sat right there beside him. I'd been on
these campuses, one of the most hostiles San Francisco State University.
We sat under that same tent together and did this.
(18:38):
I recognize that could have been me, and that was
a terrifying thought, being thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant,
and so I vowed to myself right then and there
when I saw this video, I was never ever going
to step foot on a college campus. Again, it wasn't
worth it right. I had a daughter to protect. I
had to be the best mom that I could be
for her. And then you hold her in your arms
for the first time, and it was almost immediate that
(18:59):
that that thought of the way I do protect her
as stepping back on those those campuses. There's nothing that
I wouldn't do for my daughter. The feeling of altruism
that I have, the selflessness, the I mean, walk across
broken glass. There's no mountain I wouldn't climb for my daughter.
And so that is definitely what I think about now,
(19:20):
not just on this issue, but across the board. I
want my daughter. I think about the country that she
will inherit and what is it that I want. I
want her to inherit A more safe, a more fair,
a more just. I'm a moral, a more prosperous, righteous,
opportunistic nation. That's what I'm fighting for. And it's not
for me, it's for her. And I think that's a
pretty standard way of thinking as a parent, and it's involuntary,
(19:41):
at least for me. You don't even have to think
about it. That shift just happens naturally. It's one of
the most amazing and biological things that I think you
could go through as a parent, and I think especially
as a mom to a young daughter.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, a couple of things. You weren't being selfish at
the time because you lived it. You had to face
a guy in the girls locker room, You had to
face a man that was competing in a competition he
should not have competed in. So I mean you were
not to be Yes, of course you were in the moment,
and you should have held the trophy and you should
have been given the glory that you worked so hard for.
But I get exactly what you're saying. Man. You know
(20:17):
I've got five daughters, I've got two granddaughters and a grandson.
I will fight to the death for these people, and
I have and I will continue to do that. It
does change everything because as much as we want our
own personal success through our drive and determination and what
we learned from our parents, everything changes when you've got
a little baby in your hands. Everything changes when that
person looks at you and goes, are you gonna feed
me or not? Are you gonna change my diaper or not?
(20:39):
You're gonna hold me and hug me today or not?
So everything does change. The Title nine thing was so
stupid to begin with because Title nine came around when
I was a little kid, and Title nine was very
simply girls deserve the same opportunities as boys. I can't
believe it took fifty years for the Supreme Court to
have to say, you know, girls deserve the same opportunities
(20:59):
as boys. This is a huge win, but not as
big as it needs to be because this is only
for the states that have actually passed laws saying girls
have their own spaces, girls have their own sports, and
boys can't be in there. Why is in every state
doing this? And do you think the Supreme Court ruling
will cause other states now to maybe pass some legislation, you.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Know, I'm hoping. So it certainly provides them cover. Right, So,
states where ballot initiatives or referendums or any sort of
ballot measure is being put forward, states like Maine or
Pennsylvania or Colorado, obviously these are all blue or at
the best, purple states. This will provide them cover to
do what they're doing. And it means the people's voice
can be heard. So that's certainly good news. Now, if
(21:39):
you're asking me, if we think that California or Washington,
organ or Minnesota or any of those crazy blue states
that are leaving at rapid rates and coming to our
home states of Texas and Tennessee. If I think they'll change,
absolutely not. And it's so interesting to me because I
don't think they're doing it because they actually believe that
(22:00):
boys and girls are physically the same. I can't convince
myself that they think that because kindergarteners, No kindergarteners know
that's not true. Okay. I actually believe people like Gavin Newsom,
you know, he's often labeled as, you know, unintelligent or whatever.
I actually think he's he's pretty smart, and that's I
think more concerning actually, because he's intentionally evil. Anyways, I
(22:24):
don't think they actually think that boys can become girls,
or that tampons belong in boys bathrooms, or that men
can get pregnant, or that women need prostate exams. I
don't think they think that. I think though, that they
believe they're giving a middle finger to President Trump. They're
doing this as a total act of defiance to President Trump.
But my, my, here's what I want to say to them,
is you're not giving a middle finger to President Trump.
(22:47):
It doesn't affect President Trump if you put boys in
girls sport. But who you are giving a middle finger
to is every single girl in your state. And how
do you how do you reconcile that? I don't I
don't really know. So so I think we'll continue to
see total defiance. And so what I hope we see
following this god of decision is real enforcement mechanisms from
(23:08):
our government. Of course, we have the Department of Justice,
we have the Department of Education. They actually even can
work in collaboration to hold these institutions accountable that are
ultimately violating federal law. That federal law being Title nine.
And so I hope we see real enforcement mechanisms to
hold these people's feet to the fire, because again, what
they're doing is now illegal.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, they should make nation wide legislation on top of
Title nine. I mean, just codify you through some sort
of a bill or law of something. To get into
the President's desk. They need to start suing Oregon, you
start suing California. They will be in the wrong and
they'll be found wrong, I believe by the Supreme Court.
How did you feel about Baker's reaction to this from
the NCUABLEA. He's like, yeah, well, we're just going to
follow what the guidelines are. I mean, he's still not
(23:51):
really taking a stand saying women and girls' sports are
for women in girls. Why can he just say that?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, Charlie Baker again, the president of the NCAA. He
has been morally bankrupt, spineless coward from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
How do you feel about it?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, to put it pretty plainly, he said this following
President Trump's executive order back in February of twenty twenty five,
said look, we're going to comply with federal law. He
releases this new policy. Guess what. The policy has more
holes than Swiss cheese. It resorts to things such as
birth certificates. That's how the NCAA is going to determine sex.
(24:28):
But guess what, in forty four states and across the world,
you can make your birth certificate for fraudulent by claiming you
are something other than what you actually are, something other
than what God created you to be. So that policy,
of course, it just doesn't really stand. So I think
the NCUAA does what they can and what they need
to do to save face. But there have been countless
(24:50):
issues with the nc DOUBLEA, whether it's transfer portal eligibility
rules nil. Obviously men and women's sports. This is a
pretty useless organization, I believe at this point in time.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Let me ask you this, because you know the inner
workings of the NCAA. I don't what would be wrong
with him saying women in girls sports are for women
and girls, men and boys sports are for men and boys.
What would the blowback be on this guy? I mean,
he's already said I'm going to comply. I'm going to
follow the directive. I mean, why can't he just come
out and say that and just take whatever little bit
of heat there is and then move on Because we
(25:22):
keep hearing that we're talking about point zero one percent
of the population. It's not that big a deal. Obviously.
I think that we can name ten people that are
trying to do this in the NCAA right now. What's
the blowback? What is he afraid of?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Well, to put it pretty clear, there would be no blowback.
I mean honestly outside of left wing media, right, I mean,
that's a big deal, exactly exactly. But that terrifies people
like Charlie Baker. So I'm asking the same question, why
would you not look at what Christy Coventry has done,
who's now the president of the IOC at the International
(25:58):
Olympic Committee, which, by the way, Olympics in twenty twenty
eight in the US. I'm so excited about this. She
came out and said, look, we're going to be requiring
sex verification tests to test if for every athlete male
and female, for a Y chromosome or the srygh which
is only present in Y chromosomes, which is only present
in males. It is a simple, cheap, okay, cheap, non invasive.
(26:20):
The other side will try to tell you they're doing
you know, inspections and or not.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Nobody ever said to do that.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, this is far less invasive actually than the COVID test,
which I had to submit to every single week in college. Okay,
it's not invasive, it's cheap, it's effective, and the athletes
want it. I would love to see Charlie Baker, the
president of the NCAA, do the same thing at the
collegiate level, but he won't because he's a coward.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It is Riley Gaines go to the Riley Gaines Show,
great podcast. Check her out on YouTube at Riley Gaines
at Riley Gaines everywhere on Instagram it's Riley G. Barker.
Go follow her there an incredible follow, credible friend of mine.
Why are women speaking out so much now? Women in sports?
Is it because you? And again I know that you're
not somebody who patched yourself on the back, but you
sort of set the pace. You said you can speak
(27:05):
out and you can be righteous in what you're saying.
Is that why they're doing it? Is there something else
going on? Because more and more every day, and I'm
so proud of them, there are more women athletes speaking out.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
You know what. I think there's a level of cover provided,
honestly by President Trump. I think because he is so
unashamed to speak about this topic. And I know you've
seen the clips. I mean, he's campaigned on it prior
to the election, he's talked about it since. And it's
it's the weightlifter, right, and he mocks this male weightlifters
(27:35):
pretending to be a woman, and he makes it funny.
It's like a South Park episode.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
He does this whole thing. Uh, yes, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It's so funny because he talks about, Oh, Malania hates
when I do this. Lannia I can't stand when I
do this, But that level of just boldness and saying
something that has been deemed controversial President Trump makes you
remember that it's really not it's not noisy crazy. Yeah.
The thought that he's having in the things that he
campaigns on and the policies that he support, they don't
(28:04):
make you radical or crazy. It makes you normal, and
it makes you love America, and it makes you love
common sense and women and girls, and I mean, I
don't know their future quite frankly, that's it. And so
I think he has provided a level of cover to
people to say the controversial thing. So again, that's that's
why I'm I I truthfully, I'm not exaggerating when I
(28:24):
say this. I think God, every single day that he
is back in the Oval Office, our lives would look
a whole lot different if we didn't have that sort
of bold leadership.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I would be REMISSI of it didn't bring up something
that's going on in a different sport completely. You're like
five six, so I don't think you were playing basketball,
you know, in college, but as a watch actually you
probably could have. I've you know, I'm friends with Becky Hammond,
who's also your height. But having said that, I'm watching
Caitlyn Collins just just getting her asked kicked. It's Kaitlyn
Collins or Clark. Collins is on CNN, Caitlin Clark is
(28:55):
out there the Indiana Fever. And I don't watch the
w NBA. It's just not a exciting enough for me.
I like to see people flying over the basket and
dunking in people's faces. But having said that, it's a
good game that's getting more and more popularity because of
somebody like like Caitlyn Clark. When you see her getting
her ass kicked every day by other women, for God's sakes,
as a former, you know, really top level athlete, what
(29:16):
do you make of that? What is their problem? Is
this a racial thing? Is that what we're looking at?
Pure and simply they don't like that she's not the
right race and is doing well in the WNBA. I
don't get it. What do you think.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I don't think it helps that she's white. I don't
think it helps that she's straight. But really, what I
think it is is total jealousy. You've got this girl
who became the queen of the WNBA before she ever
even set foot on a WNBA court right, and she
revolutionized the game, and I think people really hate her
for it. And I think, being white and straight again,
(29:51):
if this was a black, lesbian woman who had revolutionized
the game, I think we would be seeing a different response,
But that's not the case for Caln Clark, and I
think it's jealousy. That's what it sims down to. But
it's really hard to watch, quite frankly, as someone who
also like yourself. I mean, maybe I wasn't the biggest
women's basketball fan, but I am a big Kaitlin Clark fan.
(30:12):
And what she's done not just for the sport of basketball,
but for women's sports as a whole, And so I
tune in, I watch games largely because of her, And
that's that's not abnormal, that that's kind of actually become
a pretty standard across the board. She is the one
that's bringing in the ratings and the merchandise sells and
changing economics of women's basketball altogether, and they hate her
(30:34):
for it. I have never seen an organization more dedicated
to self imploding than the WNBA, the worst marketed, the
worst run league in the history of leagues bar none.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, I'm old enough to have watched Michael Jordan play live.
You're not, But I was not a big NBA fan
at all, But I'm hearing this Michael Jordan guy's doing
stuff that you got to see. Is Michael Jordan. Guy's
really really good. This Michael Jordan guys making everybody else
look like children. So I started watching, and guess what.
I then became a fan of Charles Oakley, who was
on the bulls, of Scottie Pippen, who was on the
bulls of Tim Hardaway. We just down the lone bj Armstrong.
(31:08):
I didn't know any of these players, and I became
fans of them, and then I became fans of the
teams they were playing, and then I got really locked
into where I think I like the NBA whereas I
was a kid that grew up liking baseball. Why don't
the other players, in your opinion, why don't they understand
she's bringing in more money for all of them, more
eyeballs for all of them, filling stadiums for all of them,
(31:28):
and why isn't that a collective good?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Because we're talking about women here.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
And I mean, is there an aspect of that Look at.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
The difference between let let's remove basketball, Let's look at soccer,
which has also been in the news. Right. Compare the
US men's national team to the US women's national team, which,
by the way, the US women's national team is objectively
in terms of, you know, on average historically standards and
rankings and competing and even at the World Cup level,
(32:01):
the women's team is objectively better. They are far less
enjoyable to watch because of their players, not because of
the pace of the game or anything like that. They're
objectively better. But you have the likes of Megan Rapino, yes,
and Alex Morgan. They're almost insufferable, not just because of
their politics or the things that they support, but to
(32:21):
each other even it's really toxic. Compare that to the men,
who you've got this pretty epic moment of President Trump
getting involved in this FIFA red card reversal. You just
feel patriotic watching the men. It's a totally different game
altogether because of I guess the different dynamic that you
(32:42):
see in women's sports and you see in men's sports.
So I think that's a large part of it. And yeah,
the WNBA in talking about you know, you've become an
NBA fan. They don't necessarily the WNBA. They don't necessarily
have to worry about their profits because it steals from
the men's league to pay for everything, So they don't
care about.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Completely subsidized by the men's league. And they all complain
they're not making enough money. We should be making the
money the men are making. No, you're not bringing in
the money the men are making. We give me a break.
Let's finish with us and Riley, I always appreciate the
time and the access. What is the next step, because
I think that I've heard you say that athletics isn't
necessarily next for girls and for women. What is next
as far as the fight going forward? It's not about athletics.
(33:21):
What is it about?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know? I think ultimately defining these terms is really
really important because that sets the precedent for every faction
of life. So we've seen this infringement in women's prisons
and sororities and domestic violence shelters, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. Right, it's not just women's sports where we're
seeing this infiltration and ultimately women being harmed, which is
(33:45):
why it's so important that we define these terms so
it can be interpreted and clarified once and for all,
and there's no more confusion. We've seen eighteen states now
do just that pass. It's merely like definitional bills, defining
words like woman, man, girl, boy, mother, father, male, female
words we never ever thought of.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
There, we have to define them and that they're they're
not variable, they're fixed.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
No. But then you have states like New York where
the governor Governor hokel right now has a bill on
her desk to ultimately change the state statute words like
mother toes stating parent. I mean, that's like literally insane.
That's like the most dehumanizing verbiage I've ever heard a
woman be called outside of in Wisconsin when they attempted
(34:31):
to change it to inseminated persons, that's what they changed
mother too. So again, all that to say, it's important
that we define these words. Our language matters, The words
that we use matter, because ultimately that's what forms a
picture in our mind, which shapes how we think and
how we interact and how we behave and the things
that we say. Uh So, I think I think that's
(34:52):
really the next big step.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, it shows you how much of a dude I am.
I never really thought beyond sports, but you're right, women
spaces and girls bas it should be. It should be
absolutely private only for them, comfortable safe, you know, not
to look over your shoulder. I mean, that's simple and
that can be. I didn't think about prisons, but you're right,
there are men being taken to women's prisons for no reason.
(35:14):
I didn't think about this other stuff outside of sports,
but all of that is inclusive. I hate that we
have to say, like you just said, to find what
a woman is what a man is. By the way,
imagine being a non gestating parent. That sounds even worse
than a gestating parent. I know. I was literally I
was at a radio conference in New York City and
we went and ate some Italian food because God knows,
(35:35):
I've got to have some Italian food in New York City.
And the waitress was like, are you all conservative? Like
I was like, out of the blue, yes, can you
believe it? Hopefully she told me about this story. She's
a mother, and she was very upset in New York
City that the governor of the state of New York
would literally say, you are no longer to be called mother, Riley,
You're a mother. Can you imagine somebody looking at you
(35:57):
and saying you could never be called a mother again.
You smack them in ahead.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
You know, if my husband came to me on this
Sunday in May traditionally known as Mother's Day, and brought
me a card that said Happy jes stating Parents' Day,
I would probably just slap them in the face, rightfully
so and he.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Would deserve it with his British accent. Listen, I love
you like crazy great stuff here today. I love the podcast,
and I got to tell you something. You're one of
my favorite stars on Medium. You're one of my favorite
people anyway, but you have become so comfortable in your
own skin and what you bring every day, whether it's
on Instagram or TikTok or and the Riley Gain Show
is remarkable. I'm super proud of you for it.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
You're the best show, and the feelings mutual. Thank you.
You're always there for me too, and that's that's rare
in the space. As we've kind of talked about, there
are a few people who you feel like you can
really lean on and trust quite frankly, and you're one
of those people. Even recently when I had something that
came up. I text you, I'm like, hey, what do
you think of this? Is this okay to say? Is
this wrong? Is this what would you think if you
(36:59):
saw this? So?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
And by the way, what you ended up posting, by
the way, got three million views or something crazy, which
was which was masterful. We'll talk about that at length
next time. Because you were attacked for no reason. I
thought that was stupid and I'm glad that you do that.
You do trust me on that. I'm honored by that.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Riley truly, well, please please you and I we tend
to we bring the controversy with us. What's the we do?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Who we are? Well, we can never stop that because
our fans expected now Riley bested Charlie and that beautiful baby.
Let's talk again very soon. Thanks for the time today.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
You're the best.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Thank you all right, that's gonna do a friend shake
and unafraid with Joe Paggs this time.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Now.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
They want to drop very soon. Make sure you subscribe.
To kind of go back to Charlie's assassination. This isn't
something that I've talked about a lot, but being you know,
thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant at the time when
I saw that he had been murdered, and understanding that
I had sat right there beside him. I'd been on
these campuses, one of the most hostile San Francisco State University.
We sat under that same tent together and did this.
I recognize that could have been me, and that was
(00:21):
a terrifying thought, being thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant,
and so I vowed to myself right then and there
when I saw this video, I was never ever going
to step foot on a college campus again.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
There is so much going on that I think my
next guest is going to have incredible expertise and commentary
on Charlie Kirk that whole trial about. I can't believe
that our friend was assassinated less than a year ago. Finally,
this is getting a hearing, and what we're seeing coming
out of there is very strange. We're to talk about
that the Supreme Court recently said, yes, states can say
(00:51):
girls sports are for girls. We have that we also
have Caitlin Clark getting her ass kicked on the basketball
court every night. I've got to go to a star
athlete in her own right a twelve time. All of
that and swimmer it is our friend Riley Gaines. Riley,
how are you going to see it?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Oh my gosh, it is so funny to hear myself
described as an athlete because it feels like a past life, right,
so I can get old. I'm kind of expired now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, it's certainly not inspired. Jale goes, Oh no, no,
stop it. We're going to get to that how your
life has changed since we first met in a bit.
But let's start with what's going on right now. You
sat next to Charlie Kirk at some of these get
togethers in college campuses. I had Charlie on my show
six different times. We were texting in the days before
he ended up dying. When you watch this unfold, it
(01:34):
seems surreal to me. What do you see when you
see that we're talking about your friend, a real person
that just doesn't hear anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You know what, It's honestly been super duper hard for
me to grapple with what nearly ten months ago now
I think back to when you know, I don't have
that many moments in my life, being now twenty six
at the time twenty five years old, I don't have
that many moments where you'll never forget where you were
when you heard news. Right of course, I was one
(02:02):
years old when nine to eleven happened. That that's a
lot of people what they remember. For me, I have two,
I would say, the first one being when President Trump
was shot in Butler, Pennsylvania, where of those, we'll never
forget where you were. And secondly, when Charlie Kirk was shot.
I was thirty eight maybe thirty nine weeks pregnant at
the time. I get a phone call from a colleague
(02:24):
and says, hey, like, are you okay? Very frantic, and
I'm confused. I'm like, what do you mean? Am I okay? Yes,
I'm perfectly fine. I'm in the line at Chick fil a,
like my life actually could not be any better right now.
And then he told me, look, Charlie Kirk has been shot,
and you know, what do you do? You immediately open
up social media and I met with this video that
I convinced myself was AI. I convinced myself it wasn't real.
(02:46):
It's a video that will live in my head for
the rest of forever. I wish I never saw this video.
And I lived in a state of total disbelief and
shock and confusion right watching the news and seeing that
black and white obituary style photo and hearing Charlie Kirk
talked about in past tense and was and were, and
seeing the date at the bottom, you know, the year
he was born through twenty twenty five. It was confusion
(03:09):
and disbelief, and then it turned into grief and tearfulness,
and then I'm not proud, but it turned into anger
and rage watching people celebrate this online. Mostly what I
noticed too, the people who were celebrating this it came
from three categories healthcare workers, which is incredibly concerning. These
are people who are supposed to be entrusted in saving
our lives. Well, guess what, Joe, if you and I
(03:31):
were on the operating table, you have to imagine they
wouldn't try as hard to save us. The people at
least who I saw celebrating online.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh, you're one hundred percent right. No, no, let me stop
you there, because you're one hundred percent right. I'm glad
and I'm not glad at something happen to Charlie. Don't
get me wrong, but I'm glad these people showed who
they really are, because you're right, you or me or
your husband or my wife on that table, knowing who
we are, we now know what they would have done gladly.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
One hundred percent. One hundred percent, which is a pretty
scary thought. And that's not limited to just you or
I or people with big platforms. It's anyone who voted
for President Trump, who has conservative values, who believed that
Jesus Christ was sent to this world, walked and lived
a perfect life, who died on the cross for our sins,
rose again three days later with the hope and the
promise of eternal life. If you believe that, maybe they
(04:16):
wouldn't try as hard to save you on the operating table. Secondly,
I saw school teachers celebrating this again deeply concerning when
you think about these are the people who are entrusted
in educating the next generation. And third, I saw tons
of government employees, so that means people who you and
I taxpayers pay the salaries of celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination,
(04:37):
all while claiming to be virtuous and kind and compassionate
and inclusive and tolerant and embrace diversity whatever, none of
those people embrace diversity. They certainly don't embrace diverse thought Anyways,
all of that to say, it's been really hard to
know how to move forward right, both speaking from a
(04:58):
cultural perspective, how to we move forward with one of
the most probably the most intellectual, effective articulate minds of
our time, who was again taken far too soon. But
I think in witnessing the fracture that we've seen, specifically
among the right, how do you combat that people who
I would very very much describe as podcast vultures, who
(05:19):
I think are I mean capitalizing immensely off of Charlie
Kirk's assassination and the insane theories and conspiracies that they
come up with. But watching this trial, even I don't
know what my role is here, if I even have
a role at all, Not to make it about me,
but in just thinking about how I approach it online
(05:39):
do you talk about it? Obviously I'm no legal expert.
I don't know the legal legalities of it. But what
I do know is Charlie was a friend to me.
He was a mentor to me. He believed in me
when he really had no reason to. And here's what
I'll say about his incredible bride, now his widow, Ericakirk.
She is one of the strongest, most compassionate, amazing human
(06:02):
beings that I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. And
so the relentless attacks against her quite frankly, I just
really can't make sense of them. I really can't. As
a common sense thinking person, very inquisitive, right, I'm never put,
you know, asking questions off the table. I think it's
silly to assume that those of us who don't believe
that Erko was behind it aren't inquisitive. We don't want
the truth or justice because I guess what, of course
(06:24):
I want those things.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
But to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Relentlessly attack the wife of his the wife of Charlie,
and the father of his children, all while claiming to
be his friend is absolutely insane.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It is I want to let me jump in liver.
Remind people who we have, of course, that they can
see you. They know it's Riley Gaines. Go to at
Riley Gaines on all the platforms. Actually it's actually Riley
Gaines Barker on one of them. Isn't it.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah? On Instagram it's Riley G. Barker.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Okay, go and follow Riley everywhere a huge platform. Obviously
we know Riley and you know Riley. But when you
just talked about when we found out and I don't
want to harp on this, but I was at the
gym in my car, about to do a short video
for one of the platforms, sitting in my car at
the gym, which is what I do a lot, and
I had a text from a friend at Fox News
and he said, Charlie Kirk shot and I said, no,
(07:13):
what are you talking about? Is he okay? We don't know,
And then we started hearing some rumblings that he was
going to be okay. He's at the hospital and he's
in he's in stable condition, which of course was absolutely untrue.
And then I like you sadly, and I wish I
hadn't watched the video sitting in the car because it
was released almost immediately, that was being live streamed one rumble.
(07:33):
So I saw it and I went, that's not good.
That's really bad. And getting away from that because I
don't want to. I don't want to harp on that
scene that everybody watching and listening probably has seen it
by now as well. I do want to harp on
what you just said at the end, when people who
claim to be his friend are making allegations that they
haven't put two and two together, they haven't tied anything
to truth. They keep on saying watch me again tomorrow,
(07:55):
and really, we're really going to give you the nitty
gritty we what we uncovered in our investigation, Riley. It's nuts.
And these people are making thirty forty fifty sixty thousand
dollars a day, just like you said, being an internet vulture,
a podcast vulture, just feeding off of the legacy of
Charlie Kirk. What I want to see happen is those
teachers and those medical workers and those podcasters actually listen
(08:19):
to what Charlie said in his very short life, because
if you listen to what he said, you can't hate
the guy. If you listen to what he said, you
know he was right and he was bringing people together.
It bothers me to my core. And maybe you can
expand upon this a little bit as well. How we're
fighting ourselves on the right, the conservatives are sitting here
fighting ourselves as you've got Nazi tattoo guy in Maine
(08:39):
running as you've got somebody in Colorado who hates the
country just one a primary. If you've got Mamdani in
New York who doesn't it can't stay in the country.
We on the right that should be keeping it together,
And if Charlie were still around, I think we'd be
doing a better job. Well, while we're fighting each other,
we're watching the destruction of the country, something that I
guess you and I didn't even realize that the enormity
(09:01):
of Charlie's presence was keeping us together. Speak to that
if you don't mind, I don't want to harp on
when he died. We're going to get hopefully we'll get justice,
and this hearing will end up being a trial and
will end up being something. Hopefully his family can get justice.
But how do we stop this infighting on our side?
Can we? What do we do?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You know? To the justice point, I don't think we'll
ever see worldly justice, but I take comfort in knowing
we serve a very just God, and everyone you and
me included are going to have to answer to him
one day. And that's what allows me to move forward
honestly with a smile on my face amidst the chaos.
I don't think we'll see worldly justice. There's nothing that
(09:40):
could happen to Tyler Robinson or any institution behind Charlie
Kirk's death that would equate to justice in my eyes,
because again, Charlie Kirk isn't here but to speak to
what we have seen following his assassination, specifically from the right.
I think it shows us a couple things. First and foremost,
it shows us how Charlie Kirk really was the glue,
really was I can say, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I did. We'd had no clue how much he was
the glue, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I began to realize it prior to his untimely murder.
Really it was the R and C convention, of course,
leading up to the twenty twenty four election. What was
this July maybe of twenty twenty four. I saw some
pretty remarkable names at the R and C convention, people
like Amber Rose, who didn't you know, necessarily fit the
(10:27):
historical average conservative.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I learned at the time that Charlie Kirk was really
behind that same thing with RFK Bobby Kennedy who came
out and you know, left the race and endorsed President
Trump at a turning point event. Charlie Kirk was behind
that same thing with Tulsa Gabbard and understanding her involvement
with President Trump's cabinet, actually several of President Trump's cabinet members.
(10:52):
I saw how Charlie Kirk had his hand on this,
and how the President really did listen to him, and
how Charlie Kirk never ever ever wanted any credit for it,
He never wanted attention for it. He really wanted what
was best for the country. And that was a really
admirable thing for me to realize, you know, several months
maybe a year before his death, and now we're all
realizing it. Posts Charlie kirk assassination. So first and foremost,
(11:16):
it shows us that Charlie Kirk really was the glue. Secondly,
I think what his assassination has showed us is that
there are several people hiding, several people with big platforms
who who oftentimes even get the label of being far right.
I think they're really hiding behind the cloak of conservatism.
I don't think they're conservatives at all. No, we see
(11:38):
these people on the line saying, you know, I'm going
to vote for Democrats in twenty twenty six and twenty
twenty eight, you're not a conservative? Are you kidding me? Like,
if you're really going to consider the two alternatives, and look,
I'm not here to say that President Trump is a
perfect man and he's you know, we've seen a perfect administration. No,
of course, not unless Jesus Christ is on the ballot.
(11:59):
It is always going to be the lesser of two evils. Okay,
I recognize that. But if you're going to compare President
Trump versus Kamala Harris, who was the alternative in twenty
twenty four, and you say you would rather live under
a Kamala Harris United States of America, then you're not
a conservative. You're not far right or all right or
any of those labels that you're often given, because I
(12:20):
don't think I really have much in common with you
at all. So I think it's shown us that a
lot of people are hiding behind the cloak of conservatism
but really aren't conservatives.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's Riley Gaines at Riley Gaines just about everywhere. Check
out Riley G. Barker over on Instagram. Go check out
The Riley Gaines Show. Incredible podcast. You have come into
your own and I'm so super proud of you. I
want to finish on the Conservative break if we can
with this. They have to be doing it for the money. Now.
All of these people that were talking about have a
(12:50):
lot of money, which is what blows my mind. But
Tucker Carlson was the go to monologue when he was
on Fox. You could not not see that monologue every
night because you did. If you missed it, you missed
sort of the beacon of conservatism on Fox every single night.
Kendice Owen's was somebody who's been on my show. Tucker's
been on my show, Charlie was on my show a lot.
(13:10):
You come on my show a lot. These are people
that I thought were in our circle that believed in
the same value system, Western culture, Western civilization, Judeo Christian values,
raise a family, do it right, you know, don't commit crime.
But to come out and say like you just alluded to,
like Tucker the other day said I'm no longer in
the Republican Party. I don't care. Are you still conservative?
(13:32):
Are you saying that you would rather have had Kamala Harris?
You're probably too young to remember this, but let me
harken back to two thousand and nine when the Tea
Party happened. The tea party movement happened, and it was
a movement, it was one thing. Then what happened was
and thankfully nobody was assassinated to cause this. What happened
was they all wanted the power, They all wanted to
be the top dog on whatever that tea party thing was.
(13:53):
Then there were eighteen different, you know, fractured tea party organizers,
and it fell apart, and the left just sat by
and watched. Could happen? Riley? Are we just handing the
left a win by allowing for this division? It just
seems so weird to me.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's so hard to predict the future of politics because
I feel like a week in politics is equivalent to
like two years in the real world. It's hard to predict, honestly,
I think, as you know, so long as the left
continues to be as radical as they've become on virtually
every topic. It doesn't matter if we're talking border, it
doesn't matter if we're talking crime or homelessness or ever
(14:30):
any of the ideologies. Okay, they have become so far
removed from your average American, then maybe we won't. I
don't see you know, again, it's hard to predict, and
I'm certainly no political strategies. Maybe we won't suffer as
much harm and detriment as as Honestly, I think we
(14:52):
we kind of need to based on the discourse that
we have seen. But the left is so radical that
you can't imagine in a world where again they reclaim
any any more power than what they currently have in
Congress in the US inate now, I know, historically and
talking about the midterms and what is to come, I know,
(15:13):
historically when you have you know, a changeover in the
Oval office. Of course, now we have bresident Trump, and
they're historically we will see some of those red seats
turned blue. Right, that's just a matter of fact. So
I think we can expect that for sure, and that
wouldn't necessarily be out of norm. But the left is
so radical.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, no, it's so bad. You're right, But they one
by one are winning these really important seats, and I
think people are still sort of in a daze and
not realizing, and hopefully through your voice and through mind,
they will realize it. Let's shift gears a little bit
and talk about the Supreme Court. A couple of weeks ago,
did the right thing. And what's interesting is when you
and I started talking, I'm not even sure if you
were married yet. You certainly were with Charlie, but I'm
(15:54):
not sure if you were married yet, and you certainly
didn't have a baby yet. The most important thing to
you was that what was happening in sports, collegiate sports, specifically,
to you specifically, was just wrong. It was unfair, It
was wrong. It didn't make any sense. But what I
want to ask you about this is that now that
you're a young mother, this women in the Supreme Court,
(16:16):
that yes, girls' sports and women's sports can in fact
be protected by state laws. I get the feeling, correct
me if I'm wrong, that you're happier about this because
of your child. It's always a fun time to take
the family to the movies. But why spend thirty dollars
when you can save a bunch of money and get
better programming in better entertainment. Why not join the Angel
(16:36):
Guild For just fifteen dollars a month. You're gonna get
two free tickets to see Young Washington in theaters this
Independence Day, plus tickets to future Angel theatrical releases, and
full access to Angel streaming library. It's one of the
best entertainment values I've seen in a very long time. Now,
let's talk about that movie in theaters this Independence Day.
Young Washington tells the story of George Washington before he
(16:57):
became a general, before he became president, and before he
became a legend. At just twenty years old, Washington face failure, setbacks,
and near death experiences that would have broken most people. Instead,
those challenges forged the leader who would help secure America's
independence and future. It's a powerful story of resilience, faith
and purpose. Join the Guild today, save a bunch of money,
(17:18):
get great programming, great entertainment. Receive your two free tickets
right now by visiting angel dot com slash PAGs angel
dot com slash PAGs. Do it right now.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
You could not be more right. It's so funny when
I think of how I initially approach doesn't naturally understandably,
but I think I approached this issue kind of selfishly right,
relating it to my own personal experience, how I had
been harmed, my teammates had been harmed, the regression and
the violation and the betrayal that we saw that we
felt right. Of course, I still recognize it from that perspective,
(17:55):
but that's not necessarily what's important to me anymore, Right,
my own success or whatever you want to call it. No,
Now I think of my daughter, and at the time,
she was a hypothetical, like it was a potential. I certainly,
you know, I could only hope and pray that I
would have a daughter of my own one day. Well,
guess what, now she's here and I'll never forget holding
(18:16):
her in my arms for the first time. And to
kind of go back to Charlie's assassination, this isn't something
that I've talked about a lot, but being you know,
thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant at the time when
I saw that he had been murdered, and understanding that
I had sat right there beside him. I'd been on
these campuses, one of the most hostiles San Francisco State University.
We sat under that same tent together and did this.
(18:38):
I recognize that could have been me, and that was
a terrifying thought, being thirty eight thirty nine weeks pregnant,
and so I vowed to myself right then and there
when I saw this video, I was never ever going
to step foot on a college campus. Again, it wasn't
worth it right. I had a daughter to protect. I
had to be the best mom that I could be
for her. And then you hold her in your arms
for the first time, and it was almost immediate that
(18:59):
that that thought of the way I do protect her
as stepping back on those those campuses. There's nothing that
I wouldn't do for my daughter. The feeling of altruism
that I have, the selflessness, the I mean, walk across
broken glass. There's no mountain I wouldn't climb for my daughter.
And so that is definitely what I think about now,
(19:20):
not just on this issue, but across the board. I
want my daughter. I think about the country that she
will inherit and what is it that I want. I
want her to inherit A more safe, a more fair,
a more just. I'm a moral, a more prosperous, righteous,
opportunistic nation. That's what I'm fighting for. And it's not
for me, it's for her. And I think that's a
pretty standard way of thinking as a parent, and it's involuntary,
(19:41):
at least for me. You don't even have to think
about it. That shift just happens naturally. It's one of
the most amazing and biological things that I think you
could go through as a parent, and I think especially
as a mom to a young daughter.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, a couple of things. You weren't being selfish at
the time because you lived it. You had to face
a guy in the girls locker room, You had to
face a man that was competing in a competition he
should not have competed in. So I mean you were
not to be Yes, of course you were in the moment,
and you should have held the trophy and you should
have been given the glory that you worked so hard for.
But I get exactly what you're saying. Man. You know
(20:17):
I've got five daughters, I've got two granddaughters and a grandson.
I will fight to the death for these people, and
I have and I will continue to do that. It
does change everything because as much as we want our
own personal success through our drive and determination and what
we learned from our parents, everything changes when you've got
a little baby in your hands. Everything changes when that
person looks at you and goes, are you gonna feed
me or not? Are you gonna change my diaper or not?
(20:39):
You're gonna hold me and hug me today or not?
So everything does change. The Title nine thing was so
stupid to begin with because Title nine came around when
I was a little kid, and Title nine was very
simply girls deserve the same opportunities as boys. I can't
believe it took fifty years for the Supreme Court to
have to say, you know, girls deserve the same opportunities
(20:59):
as boys. This is a huge win, but not as
big as it needs to be because this is only
for the states that have actually passed laws saying girls
have their own spaces, girls have their own sports, and
boys can't be in there. Why is in every state
doing this? And do you think the Supreme Court ruling
will cause other states now to maybe pass some legislation, you.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Know, I'm hoping. So it certainly provides them cover. Right, So,
states where ballot initiatives or referendums or any sort of
ballot measure is being put forward, states like Maine or
Pennsylvania or Colorado, obviously these are all blue or at
the best, purple states. This will provide them cover to
do what they're doing. And it means the people's voice
can be heard. So that's certainly good news. Now, if
(21:39):
you're asking me, if we think that California or Washington,
organ or Minnesota or any of those crazy blue states
that are leaving at rapid rates and coming to our
home states of Texas and Tennessee. If I think they'll change,
absolutely not. And it's so interesting to me because I
don't think they're doing it because they actually believe that
(22:00):
boys and girls are physically the same. I can't convince
myself that they think that because kindergarteners, No kindergarteners know
that's not true. Okay. I actually believe people like Gavin Newsom,
you know, he's often labeled as, you know, unintelligent or whatever.
I actually think he's he's pretty smart, and that's I
think more concerning actually, because he's intentionally evil. Anyways, I
(22:24):
don't think they actually think that boys can become girls,
or that tampons belong in boys bathrooms, or that men
can get pregnant, or that women need prostate exams. I
don't think they think that. I think though, that they
believe they're giving a middle finger to President Trump. They're
doing this as a total act of defiance to President Trump.
But my, my, here's what I want to say to them,
is you're not giving a middle finger to President Trump.
(22:47):
It doesn't affect President Trump if you put boys in
girls sport. But who you are giving a middle finger
to is every single girl in your state. And how
do you how do you reconcile that? I don't I
don't really know. So so I think we'll continue to
see total defiance. And so what I hope we see
following this god of decision is real enforcement mechanisms from
(23:08):
our government. Of course, we have the Department of Justice,
we have the Department of Education. They actually even can
work in collaboration to hold these institutions accountable that are
ultimately violating federal law. That federal law being Title nine.
And so I hope we see real enforcement mechanisms to
hold these people's feet to the fire, because again, what
they're doing is now illegal.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, they should make nation wide legislation on top of
Title nine. I mean, just codify you through some sort
of a bill or law of something. To get into
the President's desk. They need to start suing Oregon, you
start suing California. They will be in the wrong and
they'll be found wrong, I believe by the Supreme Court.
How did you feel about Baker's reaction to this from
the NCUABLEA. He's like, yeah, well, we're just going to
follow what the guidelines are. I mean, he's still not
(23:51):
really taking a stand saying women and girls' sports are
for women in girls. Why can he just say that?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, Charlie Baker again, the president of the NCAA. He
has been morally bankrupt, spineless coward from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
How do you feel about it?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, to put it pretty plainly, he said this following
President Trump's executive order back in February of twenty twenty five,
said look, we're going to comply with federal law. He
releases this new policy. Guess what. The policy has more
holes than Swiss cheese. It resorts to things such as
birth certificates. That's how the NCAA is going to determine sex.
(24:28):
But guess what, in forty four states and across the world,
you can make your birth certificate for fraudulent by claiming you
are something other than what you actually are, something other
than what God created you to be. So that policy,
of course, it just doesn't really stand. So I think
the NCUAA does what they can and what they need
to do to save face. But there have been countless
(24:50):
issues with the nc DOUBLEA, whether it's transfer portal eligibility
rules nil. Obviously men and women's sports. This is a
pretty useless organization, I believe at this point in time.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Let me ask you this, because you know the inner
workings of the NCAA. I don't what would be wrong
with him saying women in girls sports are for women
and girls, men and boys sports are for men and boys.
What would the blowback be on this guy? I mean,
he's already said I'm going to comply. I'm going to
follow the directive. I mean, why can't he just come
out and say that and just take whatever little bit
of heat there is and then move on Because we
(25:22):
keep hearing that we're talking about point zero one percent
of the population. It's not that big a deal. Obviously.
I think that we can name ten people that are
trying to do this in the NCAA right now. What's
the blowback? What is he afraid of?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Well, to put it pretty clear, there would be no blowback.
I mean honestly outside of left wing media, right, I mean,
that's a big deal, exactly exactly. But that terrifies people
like Charlie Baker. So I'm asking the same question, why
would you not look at what Christy Coventry has done,
who's now the president of the IOC at the International
(25:58):
Olympic Committee, which, by the way, Olympics in twenty twenty
eight in the US. I'm so excited about this. She
came out and said, look, we're going to be requiring
sex verification tests to test if for every athlete male
and female, for a Y chromosome or the srygh which
is only present in Y chromosomes, which is only present
in males. It is a simple, cheap, okay, cheap, non invasive.
(26:20):
The other side will try to tell you they're doing
you know, inspections and or not.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Nobody ever said to do that.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, this is far less invasive actually than the COVID test,
which I had to submit to every single week in college. Okay,
it's not invasive, it's cheap, it's effective, and the athletes
want it. I would love to see Charlie Baker, the
president of the NCAA, do the same thing at the
collegiate level, but he won't because he's a coward.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It is Riley Gaines go to the Riley Gaines Show,
great podcast. Check her out on YouTube at Riley Gaines
at Riley Gaines everywhere on Instagram it's Riley G. Barker.
Go follow her there an incredible follow, credible friend of mine.
Why are women speaking out so much now? Women in sports?
Is it because you? And again I know that you're
not somebody who patched yourself on the back, but you
sort of set the pace. You said you can speak
(27:05):
out and you can be righteous in what you're saying.
Is that why they're doing it? Is there something else
going on? Because more and more every day, and I'm
so proud of them, there are more women athletes speaking out.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
You know what. I think there's a level of cover provided,
honestly by President Trump. I think because he is so
unashamed to speak about this topic. And I know you've
seen the clips. I mean, he's campaigned on it prior
to the election, he's talked about it since. And it's
it's the weightlifter, right, and he mocks this male weightlifters
(27:35):
pretending to be a woman, and he makes it funny.
It's like a South Park episode.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
He does this whole thing. Uh, yes, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It's so funny because he talks about, Oh, Malania hates
when I do this. Lannia I can't stand when I
do this, But that level of just boldness and saying
something that has been deemed controversial President Trump makes you
remember that it's really not it's not noisy crazy. Yeah.
The thought that he's having in the things that he
campaigns on and the policies that he support, they don't
(28:04):
make you radical or crazy. It makes you normal, and
it makes you love America, and it makes you love
common sense and women and girls, and I mean, I
don't know their future quite frankly, that's it. And so
I think he has provided a level of cover to
people to say the controversial thing. So again, that's that's
why I'm I I truthfully, I'm not exaggerating when I
(28:24):
say this. I think God, every single day that he
is back in the Oval Office, our lives would look
a whole lot different if we didn't have that sort
of bold leadership.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I would be REMISSI of it didn't bring up something
that's going on in a different sport completely. You're like
five six, so I don't think you were playing basketball,
you know, in college, but as a watch actually you
probably could have. I've you know, I'm friends with Becky Hammond,
who's also your height. But having said that, I'm watching
Caitlyn Collins just just getting her asked kicked. It's Kaitlyn
Collins or Clark. Collins is on CNN, Caitlin Clark is
(28:55):
out there the Indiana Fever. And I don't watch the
w NBA. It's just not a exciting enough for me.
I like to see people flying over the basket and
dunking in people's faces. But having said that, it's a
good game that's getting more and more popularity because of
somebody like like Caitlyn Clark. When you see her getting
her ass kicked every day by other women, for God's sakes,
as a former, you know, really top level athlete, what
(29:16):
do you make of that? What is their problem? Is
this a racial thing? Is that what we're looking at?
Pure and simply they don't like that she's not the
right race and is doing well in the WNBA. I
don't get it. What do you think.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I don't think it helps that she's white. I don't
think it helps that she's straight. But really, what I
think it is is total jealousy. You've got this girl
who became the queen of the WNBA before she ever
even set foot on a WNBA court right, and she
revolutionized the game, and I think people really hate her
for it. And I think, being white and straight again,
(29:51):
if this was a black, lesbian woman who had revolutionized
the game, I think we would be seeing a different response,
But that's not the case for Caln Clark, and I
think it's jealousy. That's what it sims down to. But
it's really hard to watch, quite frankly, as someone who
also like yourself. I mean, maybe I wasn't the biggest
women's basketball fan, but I am a big Kaitlin Clark fan.
(30:12):
And what she's done not just for the sport of basketball,
but for women's sports as a whole, And so I
tune in, I watch games largely because of her, And
that's that's not abnormal, that that's kind of actually become
a pretty standard across the board. She is the one
that's bringing in the ratings and the merchandise sells and
changing economics of women's basketball altogether, and they hate her
(30:34):
for it. I have never seen an organization more dedicated
to self imploding than the WNBA, the worst marketed, the
worst run league in the history of leagues bar none.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, I'm old enough to have watched Michael Jordan play live.
You're not, But I was not a big NBA fan
at all, But I'm hearing this Michael Jordan guy's doing
stuff that you got to see. Is Michael Jordan. Guy's
really really good. This Michael Jordan guys making everybody else
look like children. So I started watching, and guess what.
I then became a fan of Charles Oakley, who was
on the bulls, of Scottie Pippen, who was on the
bulls of Tim Hardaway. We just down the lone bj Armstrong.
(31:08):
I didn't know any of these players, and I became
fans of them, and then I became fans of the
teams they were playing, and then I got really locked
into where I think I like the NBA whereas I
was a kid that grew up liking baseball. Why don't
the other players, in your opinion, why don't they understand
she's bringing in more money for all of them, more
eyeballs for all of them, filling stadiums for all of them,
(31:28):
and why isn't that a collective good?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Because we're talking about women here.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
And I mean, is there an aspect of that Look at.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
The difference between let let's remove basketball, Let's look at soccer,
which has also been in the news. Right. Compare the
US men's national team to the US women's national team, which,
by the way, the US women's national team is objectively
in terms of, you know, on average historically standards and
rankings and competing and even at the World Cup level,
(32:01):
the women's team is objectively better. They are far less
enjoyable to watch because of their players, not because of
the pace of the game or anything like that. They're
objectively better. But you have the likes of Megan Rapino, yes,
and Alex Morgan. They're almost insufferable, not just because of
their politics or the things that they support, but to
(32:21):
each other even it's really toxic. Compare that to the men,
who you've got this pretty epic moment of President Trump
getting involved in this FIFA red card reversal. You just
feel patriotic watching the men. It's a totally different game
altogether because of I guess the different dynamic that you
(32:42):
see in women's sports and you see in men's sports.
So I think that's a large part of it. And yeah,
the WNBA in talking about you know, you've become an
NBA fan. They don't necessarily the WNBA. They don't necessarily
have to worry about their profits because it steals from
the men's league to pay for everything, So they don't
care about.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Completely subsidized by the men's league. And they all complain
they're not making enough money. We should be making the
money the men are making. No, you're not bringing in
the money the men are making. We give me a break.
Let's finish with us and Riley, I always appreciate the
time and the access. What is the next step, because
I think that I've heard you say that athletics isn't
necessarily next for girls and for women. What is next
as far as the fight going forward? It's not about athletics.
(33:21):
What is it about?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know? I think ultimately defining these terms is really
really important because that sets the precedent for every faction
of life. So we've seen this infringement in women's prisons
and sororities and domestic violence shelters, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. Right, it's not just women's sports where we're
seeing this infiltration and ultimately women being harmed, which is
(33:45):
why it's so important that we define these terms so
it can be interpreted and clarified once and for all,
and there's no more confusion. We've seen eighteen states now
do just that pass. It's merely like definitional bills, defining
words like woman, man, girl, boy, mother, father, male, female
words we never ever thought of.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
There, we have to define them and that they're they're
not variable, they're fixed.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
No. But then you have states like New York where
the governor Governor hokel right now has a bill on
her desk to ultimately change the state statute words like
mother toes stating parent. I mean, that's like literally insane.
That's like the most dehumanizing verbiage I've ever heard a
woman be called outside of in Wisconsin when they attempted
(34:31):
to change it to inseminated persons, that's what they changed
mother too. So again, all that to say, it's important
that we define these words. Our language matters, The words
that we use matter, because ultimately that's what forms a
picture in our mind, which shapes how we think and
how we interact and how we behave and the things
that we say. Uh So, I think I think that's
(34:52):
really the next big step.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, it shows you how much of a dude I am.
I never really thought beyond sports, but you're right, women
spaces and girls bas it should be. It should be
absolutely private only for them, comfortable safe, you know, not
to look over your shoulder. I mean, that's simple and
that can be. I didn't think about prisons, but you're right,
there are men being taken to women's prisons for no reason.
(35:14):
I didn't think about this other stuff outside of sports,
but all of that is inclusive. I hate that we
have to say, like you just said, to find what
a woman is what a man is. By the way,
imagine being a non gestating parent. That sounds even worse
than a gestating parent. I know. I was literally I
was at a radio conference in New York City and
we went and ate some Italian food because God knows,
(35:35):
I've got to have some Italian food in New York City.
And the waitress was like, are you all conservative? Like
I was like, out of the blue, yes, can you
believe it? Hopefully she told me about this story. She's
a mother, and she was very upset in New York
City that the governor of the state of New York
would literally say, you are no longer to be called mother, Riley,
You're a mother. Can you imagine somebody looking at you
(35:57):
and saying you could never be called a mother again.
You smack them in ahead.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
You know, if my husband came to me on this
Sunday in May traditionally known as Mother's Day, and brought
me a card that said Happy jes stating Parents' Day,
I would probably just slap them in the face, rightfully
so and he.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Would deserve it with his British accent. Listen, I love
you like crazy great stuff here today. I love the podcast,
and I got to tell you something. You're one of
my favorite stars on Medium. You're one of my favorite
people anyway, but you have become so comfortable in your
own skin and what you bring every day, whether it's
on Instagram or TikTok or and the Riley Gain Show
is remarkable. I'm super proud of you for it.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
You're the best show, and the feelings mutual. Thank you.
You're always there for me too, and that's that's rare
in the space. As we've kind of talked about, there
are a few people who you feel like you can
really lean on and trust quite frankly, and you're one
of those people. Even recently when I had something that
came up. I text you, I'm like, hey, what do
you think of this? Is this okay to say? Is
this wrong? Is this what would you think if you
(36:59):
saw this? So?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
And by the way, what you ended up posting, by
the way, got three million views or something crazy, which
was which was masterful. We'll talk about that at length
next time. Because you were attacked for no reason. I
thought that was stupid and I'm glad that you do that.
You do trust me on that. I'm honored by that.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Riley truly, well, please please you and I we tend
to we bring the controversy with us. What's the we do?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Who we are? Well, we can never stop that because
our fans expected now Riley bested Charlie and that beautiful baby.
Let's talk again very soon. Thanks for the time today.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
You're the best.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Thank you all right, that's gonna do a friend shake
and unafraid with Joe Paggs this time.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Now.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
They want to drop very soon. Make sure you subscribe.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com