July 8, 2026 • 34 mins
She spent years pushing the climate panic narrative. Now she's dismantling it from the inside.
Lucy Biggers was a true believer — a climate activist and influencer who marched at Standing Rock, pushed the alarm bells, and amplified every talking point the movement handed her. Then she started asking questions. What she found changed everything.
In this explosive conversation, Lucy joins Joe Pags to expose the psychology, the hypocrisy, and the financial motives behind the climate movement — including how Al Gore left office nearly broke and is now worth over $300 million. She explains why blaming America's air conditioning for a Paris heatwave isn't just wrong — it's a lie designed to make you feel guilty for being alive.
In this episode:
- Why Lucy calls herself a "useful idiot" — and who she blames for it
- The real reason Europeans refuse practical energy solutions
- How China funds green energy programs in America while building coal plants at home
- Why fossil fuels are the single greatest tool for lifting people out of poverty
- The social and career destruction that comes from questioning the climate narrative
- Why AOC and others know the truth — but will never say it out loud
This isn't a debate. It's a reckoning.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
France just blamed its heat wave on your air condition
and the woman I'm about to interview used to agree
with them. First of all, do you take the blame
for why a lot of people believe what they believe
about climate?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
No, I blame al Gore. I think that's all on
my shoulders.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I think I was a useful idiot. I think I
amplified it for a few years there. But you know,
many people have taken up the cross and the cause
in my absence of from the movement, So it just
kind of keeps going. There's always this self perpetuating movement.
And it's funny seeing the heat wave this week. I
saw someone say it's like a thousand Greta tunebergs have
(00:37):
gotten their wings from this.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
So there's always people looking.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
For doom and gloom and an excuse to believe the
world's over and to sort of feel guilt and shame
for being alive as a modern human.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
In twenty twenty six, I will ask.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
You the question directly about France in a minute, but
I want to start with this. The New York Post
put this up and it says Paris official blames Americans
and their air conditioning for a europe heat wave that's
killed thirteen hundred people. It's from the New York Post.
I won't read too much of it, but I want
to give you the context. A Paris politician blamed Americans
and US air conditioning for the record breaking heat wave
(01:09):
in Europe that's resulted in more than thirteen hundred deaths.
After US tourists mocked France over the lack of air
conditioning across the country. I made one hundred and four
degree temperature as fahrenheit. Audrey poulvar or whatever, Deputy Mayor
of Paris for International Relations, claimed the situation was partly
America's fault. Lucy helped me understand, how is you? How
are you sitting in and me and I'm sitting in
(01:31):
air conditioning affecting Paris, France today. I know.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I think they're saying, maybe because of our carbon emissions
that we've added to global warming, that's probably what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, I only in France's global warming.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
The thing is like, you go back in time and
you can look at this historic data.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You can just use any AI tool.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now. I was using Gemini the other day and everyone
was freaking out in England because they broke thirty four
C you know, thirty four celsius, which is like ninety
two degrees here.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And so I look it up and I said, what
is the UK broken C before?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
And it gave me, you know, a dozens of dates
going back to the eighteen hundreds, and so you realize
that these things happen, like heat waves are so complex.
The reason the causes behind you waves are so complex, right,
we don't even fully understand why they happen.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
They have a lot to do with the air pressure
systems and everything.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I'm not a meteorologist, but to just say it's based
on carbon missions is just not true. And so people
are always trying to find excuses to I feel like,
feel guilt and shame for being modern humans. It's sort
of like their modern day religion. And it's so psychological
beyond scientific at this.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Point, it's not Lucy Biggers. Go and check her out
at Lucy Biggers over an ig. You can go check
her out at l Biggers on X substack is Lucy Biggers.
It's big g E R S. Let me give you
a little bit more context of what this person had
to say. Dear American journalists and social media influencers for days,
some of you have been criticizing and making fun of
Paris because the city does not have AC in every room.
(02:52):
Oh mg, this is so rich Pulvar Road in her
social media She continued to say, quote, as the second
largest emitter of greenhouse gas emissions in the world, you
bear a significant amount of responsibility for global warming and
the consequences we in France are experiencing. Your cities, which
are ninety percent air conditioned, are not unrelating to this,
she added, So please, enough with the lecture, just start
(03:13):
doing your part. Lucy. What I noticed about somebody like
her is that she never says what it is we're
supposed to do what she's say. Shut the AC off,
don't have AC in buildings, don't have a low mortality
rate for human beings because we don't deal with the heat.
We actually stayed nice and cool. Has anybody in your
history of being on that side and now coming to
(03:35):
fact in reality, has anybody ever made a case for
this is what I want you to do, other than
paying a carbon tax, which doesn't do anything. I can
still admit the carbon but just give me money and
it's fine, Or don't have the oil rig off the
coast of the Gulf. Have the oil rig off the
coast of Brazil somehow makes better sense. Has anybody ever
said if we do this fact science has shown this
(03:56):
will happen. Because I haven't seen it, they don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
It's so emotional. I don't think they're thinking that far ahead.
They almost can't see past their noses because they're in
such emotion and fear about this stuff, so the rational
thinking is turned off. It's really not a scientific movement.
It's a political movement. They really want de growth and
they want us to not live abundant lives. I think
they kind of hate being a human in twenty twenty six.
They want to go back to some fantasy time that
(04:19):
they don't really stay.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
And so I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I don't see the one for one except for maybe
like going to your local farmer's market. They always say
stuff like that, so not if it really makes any
logical sense. And I saw this great statistic that you know,
two million people lived in Florida in nineteen fifty and
now twenty three million people live there because the ac
we invented a c so ever moved to Florida, right,
no one was living in Florida before AC but once
(04:42):
we got it became a place to live. And so
you know, you have people living in Arizona and the
desert and all these different places, and so we know
how to adapt, we have the technology. Why the Europeans
don't want to do it. Maybe it's because all the
good ones left and came to America and all the
late losers were like left behind. But they don't have
a lot of creativity or problem solving skills.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Well, well clearly they don't. I mean, we have shown
again we can go back at history. People used to
die by the tens of thousands every year from heat
back in the day before we had AC, before it
was the modern age, before we had technology. So they're
not even accepting the fact that people are much safer today.
Human beings are much safer today. And by the way,
our air is very clean here in the United States,
cleaner than in some nations India, China, won't name too many,
(05:25):
but to blame the United States because I think, and
maybe I'm wrong about this, you use the word emotional.
I'm a man, so it don't say that word that much.
I think it might be jealousy. Is she jealous that
we can stay nice and cool during the day. Is
that what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, there's probably some sort of like American we just
to live large and everything is bigger in America, kind
of biased there. They think they're better than us because
we have all we're soft.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Maybe because we have the AC.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So come on.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Whether it's jealous, I think it would be subconscious level
of jealousy. I think consciously it's more of like a
disdain for us in the way that we live. In
the discourse of all of this, because I've been making
videos about it and seeing the context.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They're just like.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Culturally they're aoc AC is seen as something so negative
and it's just not part of the culture, and I
think it's just like a really big thing to come
up against. And I don't know, we just don't have
it here, so it's a whole other world and everyone's
mapping on their different psychologies to it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
If we look at an actual chart, and I want
to put it up there, and by the way, go
follow Lucy everywhere. She's amazing Lucy Biggers. I make sure
that I follow, and I like and I comment if
I can. I try to read. I don't know we
say repost over on TikTok or Instagram. If I see
your post, everybody should learn from what you've actually gone
through because you're so much smarter and better at this
than others for the simple reason that you literally believed
(06:44):
the other side before, and that literal belief. It took
a lot to make you understand that what you were
saying probably wasn't true or at least wasn't proven. That
takes a big person to do that. I don't know
many people who have been on both sides of the
issue like you have been. That's why urge every to
go to follow, Go and follow Lucy Biggers. Let me
show a chart on the on the screen top carbon
(07:05):
Dix side emitters. This is the latest data from twenty
twenty four. China is this is by millions of metric tons.
This is what this graph shows thirteen one hundred and
twenty five million, So that would be what thirteen billion,
one hundred twenty five million. The United States is only four,
India is at thirty one hundred, Rush is at two thousand.
Japan goes down, Iran goes down, Indonesia goes down. But
(07:26):
China is more is more than tripling what it is
that we're doing. Yet they're not complaining in Paris about China.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Why not, right, Well, I think because China projects to
the world that there're some sort of climate leader when
they're really not. And I also will say, like I think,
thinking about carbon emissions and just this one statistic, what
is behind a carbon emission? It's industry, right, you know,
it's the ability of someone to have a car. It's
ability to someone to heat their home, to turn on
a stove, to wash your clothes with a washing machine.
(07:54):
So to just simplify modern life down into just carbon emissions,
to me, is such a distorted and sort of one
layer black and white way of thinking about this. When
you really think about it, it's a it's a symbolism
of how abundant we are, and we've exported an offshort
a lot of our manufacturing to China, and so that's
why they have these huge admissions numbers now, because basically
(08:16):
all the factors are shutting down in the UK because
the energy they are so expensive, and they're going to
places like China, which is you know, lifted everybody, they're
out of poverty, and so I think the association if
you look at GDP growth over the past two hundred years,
and you look at CO two admissions. It's the same
graph because it fossil fuels, power, energy and abundance and
(08:37):
our economy. And so I don't even think about it
as a negative thing. I say, more power to them,
like build baby, build right, like lift your people out
of poverty, build the things over there like that. We
don't want to build here, and we'll do the tech stuff.
And the different types of industries are well onshore some.
But then our emissions are going to go up, and
so what's that means? People are getting jobs? And so
I kind of just dismissed the whole narrative. I mean,
(08:59):
I know the people in the climate movement love to
talk about carbon missions, but I say, I don't think
carbon missions are bad.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Well, I could be wrong, but you know, I learned
in like elementary school that carbon dioxide is what plants
breede and then plants give off oxygen. More carbon in
the atmosphere is not a horrible thing, and it's way
lower by percentage than the activists are acting like it is.
So I'm confused by that. But there's one important point
that people like this Paris person never ever even broach.
And that's why are so many people trying as hard
(09:27):
as they can to get into the United States from
places like Haiti, from places like Syria, from places like
Northern Africa, from places like name the third world country
because they don't have flowing water, they don't have electricity,
they don't have air conditioning, they don't have the creature
comforts that are adding to our life expectancy here in
the Western World. So why don't they ever focus on that?
(09:48):
They want us to be more like you know, Africa,
where there's a power outage, no internet, no water, no food,
people die in the in the thirties and forties. When
you were on that side, did anybody ever bring that up?
I'm guessing you might have because you're really smart. But
I mean, the fact that so many people want to
come here, doesn't that show our goodness anyway?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I think when I was in the movement, my my
perspective was so narrow, it was so myopic. I was
just thinking about in eighteen fifty was this temperature, and
it's this temperature today, and this much CO two has
been added to the atmosphere, and it's bad, and that
was so how I was thinking. I wasn't thinking on
a global scale, historic scale. I wasn't thinking of cost
benefit analysis of we've have more CO two, But what
are the benefit fits we get from fossil fuels? And
(10:30):
now I understand, you know, the fossil fuel powered life
that we have, the energy abundant life that we've powered.
We use thousands of watts of energy a day just
from like the showers that we take, in, the food
that we eat and everything right, and it's replaced actually
the same amount of energy that would be six hundred
human beings. So I in the olden days would need
six hundred slaves to have the energy abundant life I
(10:52):
have today. But instead I get powered by a you know,
natural gas plant that's out of sight, out of mind,
and I pay a few cents to turn on the
lights and all these things. And so we really can't
underestimate how good we have it. We truly all live
like kings. And so to me, it's like we got
a little bit of extra carbon in the atmosphere in
a degree or two. I would rather live in this
world that's warm and abundant than in a cold world.
(11:14):
And you know, require slave labor to have a comfortable life.
Now we can all do it because of these technologies.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
It's a really important point, Lucy. I mean what you
just said makes a lot of sense, because where is
there the largest amount of slavery on the planet now
in Africa? Millions of people are enslaved there. Now, we
got rid of it a long time ago, thank god.
We never should have had it. But because we became
self sufficient and we realized how morally bad it was.
It's Lucy Biggers. Go follow her at Lucy Bigger's on
(11:40):
ig at l Biggers over on X and substack is
Lucy Biggers. When you were in the movement and you
saw somebody like AOC walk out and say we're all
gonna be dead in twelve years, or al Gore say
in two thousand, the polar or the twenty fourteen, whatever
the hell it was, the polarized cap would be gone
and we would have a flood in Lower Manhattan. When
you heard things like that and that it turned out
(12:02):
never to come true. It never happened. All the predictions
were wrong. Did you What were you in such a
place that you rationalized it? Okay, they were wrong about that,
but it's going to happen eventually, or was that really
what woke you up?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I didn't think about it. I think I just didn't
know that the predictions were wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I guess because I would turn on the news and
you know, like, what's happening on with this heat wave?
And you'd hear this heat's unprecedented and it's America's fault,
it's global warming, And so I kind of just bought
that surface level understanding that was reinforced sort of passively
by the news. Right you can always find an article
that says this heating is unprecedented and it's our fault,
or this hurricane was unprecedented in our fault. There's so
(12:44):
much information out there that reiterates that point, and so
I did not know that the predictions weren't coming true
until I started to do some research. I think the
first thing that broke through for me, though, was the
fact that deaths from natural disasters were down ninety seven
percent hundred years. So then I was like, wait a minute.
One of my foundational beliefs is climate change is dangerous.
(13:06):
And then I thought, okay, well, if deaths from natural
disasters are down so significantly, even with climate change happening,
then it's not dangerous. And so that was when I
was like, let me, let me reframe this, because why
am I pushing something that's so dramatic, right, I want
to dismantle our energy system and really hurt the.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Way of life that we have. But now I'm learning
that what I'm trying to prevent is maybe not even dangerous.
And then that was when I was like, Okay, I
got to learn more.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And then I learned from reading other books that you know,
extreme weather's not gotten worse, all these other statistics and so.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You learn a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
The only thing that's really gotten a little bit more
common is heat heat waves, which we're seeing right now
obviously because we have gone through a warming period. But
I will say, we can't even tell what amount of
this warming period is just naturally occurring. This could be
fully naturally occurring, and in the next decade or two
we could go through a cooling period and then that
will really be the last nail on the coffin of
(14:04):
this stuff. But right now, because we also are warming
and the CO two is going up at the same time,
we have a correlation that we're trying to understand is
a causation too, and we don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But I guess even if we don't know, then.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You look at the global greening and it's not dangerous,
and how amazing fossil fuels are, and you kind of
look at the cost benefit and you go, I think
I'll stick with fossil fuels and like a degree or
two of warming in some greener planet, Like, I think
it's a good deal.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
But I'm with you. It's Lucy Bigger's Lucy. That's very,
very smart what you said. Let me throw this out
at you. I grew up in South Florida and we
had hurricanes when I was growing up. I grew up
we actually played football during Hurricane David. In like nineteen
seventy eight, Hurricane Andrew came through when my wife was
nine and a half months pregnant with my daughter, Sam
and it ended up going south and ruining much of
(14:51):
south of US. We were in Palm Beach County. But
we were told back then, even from I would guess
the mid eighties on because they were early seventies, they
were talking about global cooling. But we were told that
hurricanes are getting more intense, more numerous, We're getting way
more storms than ever. And I remember, like the year
two thousand, I went to Florida. I was a TV
news anchor in Michigan. I went to Florida to cover
the hurricanes. There were a lot of hurricanes in the
(15:13):
year two thousand and I went there and we were
told gonna be seventeen to twenty named storms every year,
and then like two thousand and five, we had Hurricane
Katrina pretty bad, and we had some others in that area,
and then suddenly not so much, and nobody said anything.
Those who were on your former side were telling us
it would be more and more storms, it'd be more intense.
And it turns out you probably already know this. We
(15:33):
didn't have really sophisticated equipment to test and really gauge
how bad these hurricanes were back in the day, and
now we have better gauges that are saying the hurricanes
are way more intense. No, it turns out, of you
today's gauging and check out the ones from before, they
were just as intense. So that's another big lie that
I think you probably fell for for a while. Again,
(15:53):
was that part of your awakening to go, wait a second,
the tools to measure these things weren't so good back then.
We aren't having fifteen to twenty names storms. We aren't seeing,
you know, California fall off the edge of the earth
because of new tornadoes and earthquakes and fill in the
blank whatever whatever people in America cause. Was that part
of your awakening where you said, wait a second, these
storms weren't that bad, or they were worse than that
(16:15):
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Speaker 2 (17:23):
My name is George Washington.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, I thought there was gonna be a Hurricane Katrina
every year. And then I went to college in New
Orleans and there was a hurricane. I got evacuated my
first year, and then we had Hurricane Sandy hit my hometown.
And so I think there was a very busy hurricane
season in the early two thousand's.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Now we've been in a very quiet period where there
were no land following hurricanes last year.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And I think weather is cyclical, and I think we
even saw this a few examples off the top of
my head. California was in a drought for a decade.
It's now no longer in a drought, right, It's all
this historic rain for a few years.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So there's that.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Then like these even these heat waves in Europe. A
really great meteorologist, you should have him on. His name's
Chris Marts. He's a really smart guy. And she, oh, yeah, okay.
So he talks about how even this heat wave right now,
it's cyclical, it's because of some I don't know, high
pressure or something something. I'm not a meterroologist, but it's
like it could not even be about like you know,
the cycle could change now, it's going to go into
some cooling periods, and so like just because you have
(18:24):
ten years of data on something, it doesn't really mean
it's a sign that like it's CO two. And then
the direct cause is this heat wave. But you know,
even with snow, we've been having a lot of more
snow in my region of Connecticut, and they're saying, well,
these extreme these extreme cold is also because.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Of climate change.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
But then you look at like the UN data, which
again it's looking for crisis. It wants to find all
the evidence to freak us out, and it's like cold
spells of decreased, snowpack has decreased, and so you're like,
wait a minute, you can't have it both ways like is.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It more drafts? Is it more is it more rain?
Is it more snow? Is it more warmth? Like? But
that's when you kind of go, wait a minute, this
isn't side centific.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
It's a propaganda, political tool that everyone uses to get.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Their means of power through.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
And a lot of people, you know, having more control
of our energy system and energy prices and all these
things is a means of control.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And maybe for some people it's happening. It's on a
subconscious level.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
They think that they are on the right side of history,
that they're helping people, and so they you know, make
exceptions for maybe fudging a little bit here and there,
because it's like for the good of humanity, which is psychopathic.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
But people are flawed.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Well, I like where you just went because it tells
me that I think those who do the job that
you used to do really do think they're helping. They
really do think they're making the world better. They think
that it's going to be better for our children if
we should have children. Maybe we shouldn't because that's harming
the climate. But the overlords, and I think that you
know this now, the overlords are trying to make money.
I can go fly in a private jetif I want.
(19:54):
Not that I do, but I can do that if
I give them a bunch of money for my carbon footprint,
Like that's going to solve the problem. What was that
carbon footprint money supposed to do other than enrich people?
Can you somehow dial back the carbon because I paid
you X amount of dollars per cubic inch? I don't
get it. What was that supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, that was supposed to like add to green technology.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
But again it's just putting it into government's hands that
pick winners and losers. And the biggest evidence for this.
It's so funny, Like al Gore was worth two million
dollars when he left becoming when he was vice president
he left office, and he's worth three hundred and thirty
million dollars now because he has a fund that technology
and carbon. Yeah, so weird. And it's so funny because
(20:35):
I really like a lot of these scientists that are
on the other side, the climate realists, people at the
CO two Coalition in Heartland Institute, and I so quickly
get well, they're taking energy money from X, Y and
Z and I when I was in the climate movement,
I never got that critique of al Gore, no one
questions his motives. So just funny when you are on
the opposite side and on the practical common sense side,
people are like, what's your funding, when like, there's so
(20:57):
much more evidence that these climate activists and these tim
at shills essentially are the ones making so much money
off of this, But they don't get tarnished with that
in the same way that like I get called fossil
fuel shill underneath every single one of my videos. And
I've never taken money from fossil fuels because intentionally unfortunately
for my wallet, because I can't, I don't. I want
to be able to say full throated I've never taken
(21:19):
money from energy because I want to be able to
say I want to be I'm such I'm so passionate
about being an advocate, and so it's just funny, like
I've never taken money from any special interests, but all
these climate activists are taking money from these special interests
and they have I mean even like the CCP, we
now know fun screen energy programs here in America because
(21:40):
it's in their interests. They own all of the supply
chains for solar and wind, and they know, an unreliable
energy grid for America is just overall good for them.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And what are they building it. I think they're building
a cold plant per week in China. As they're funding
energy here. They're building, you know, the dirtiest energy they
can there. It's Lucy Biggers that Lucy Biggers over on
Instrum go Ahead.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I was gonna say, I think the solar and wind
industry is just a jobs program for their people, right
Like they're just doing it around the margin so that
they have factories to like employ villagers and not have
like civil unrest. But when you look at these technologies
other than nuclear, of course, which is the one thing
that the environmental movement vilified, that's really the only thing
that is comparable. And we're just talking about the electricity grid,
(22:22):
by the way, we're not talking about construction, cement, airplanes, shipping.
All of those things right now are one hundred percent
nearly fossil fuels because solar and wind you can't get
enough power to do those things, and nuclear is just
really electricity. So yeah, you really look at it, you
can look at it from every angle and none of
it makes sense. And overall we've spent i think it's
(22:45):
eleven trillion dollars on this green transition, and three percent
of our energy is now solar and wind, and you could,
you know, put a billion You can put eleven billion
trees and basically solve like urban heat highland effect in
these cities that are really hot right now. Eleven we
could plant eleven billion trees and that we'd still have
money left over or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So like it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's how Lucy Biggers always appreciate the time in the
Access You mentioned Alga a couple of times. Why were
there never any ramifications for al Gore when we found
out his electric bill every month was twenty thousand dollars?
I mean, honestly, he was using more electricity than like
city blocks in many places. And when we said, hey,
al Gore is driving around in a dirty private jet,
it's an old one that really puts out the emissions
(23:28):
and his electricity bills twenty thousand dollars a month at
his house in Tennessee or whatever, why didn't that? Why
did that not stick to you? Think because the media
is on his side. I mean, what is that?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah? I think Semdia' is on his side. I think
he is just the good guys, right.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
This is like Thomas sol we'll talk about this, the
Visions of the Anointed People. This is like an old
book he wrote in the nineties that I felt was
very sorrelevant to today. It's like, if you're the good
guy who's always on the side of the media for
the underdog, and you project compassion and concern, people don't
really think deeper than that, and so they're just like,
he's a good guy, we don't want to drag him.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
But then if you're someone like a Trump who's a
realist and kind of poking the bear but saying the truth,
you get dragged by the media because they just don't
know what to do with you. And I think from
my own experience of being on that side to this side,
it's like I'm a lot more criticized and scrutinized from
being on this side because I'm no longer seen as good.
I'm seen as an op and I'm a negative influence
(24:24):
because I'm no longer on the side of the underdog.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
But when you actually look at it, it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
The climate movement is so destructive for just energy access,
and so you still have a billion people who don't
have reliable energy. They're cooking their food with wood that
they have to go collect with, you know, and so
that means their kids are spending their day collecting fuel.
Their kids aren't going to school. The single biggest thing
you can do for that population of people is give
them a gas stove. And so if you really wanted
(24:50):
to help humanity, you'd really actually be advocating for the
proliferation of natural gas or propane gas stoves and getting
these people even have a light bulb revolutionary for people
so they can study. And so these activists are the
ones who promote policies that make energy less affordable, less accessible,
and they end up hurting people.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
So everything is like the upside down world. It's very
silly and weird.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
What was that push to get rid of gas stoves
all about? Is there somebody from the electricity lobby that
doesn't want gas stoves? I never understood that electricity comes
from a grid. The grid has to be powered somehow.
We're not for nuclear, which would be the most efficient.
We're for me generally speaking, we're using fossil fuels to
power the grid that then powers electric stoves. What was
(25:36):
that all about do you know.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I just think that there are a lot of politicians
to a very surface level understanding of these issues, and
then lobbyists come to them and say, hey, this is
what people want, let's ban this thing, and so these
policies get passed without that next line of reasoning of
what are the downstream impacts. You see this a lot
with just like it's virtue signaling policies, and unfortunately, you
(25:59):
have a lot of climate policies in places like New
York and Colorado where they're trying to lower their emissions
from heating and all these different things by a certain amount.
And it's really going to hit the fan when these
these deadlines come down, because it's exorbitantly expensive to electrify
your heating or even your gas.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And it's funny too, because.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
When you get everything reliable on the grid, like you said,
it's like all of a sudden, everything's coming from that grid,
and so you're just more vulnerable. Even with like an
electric car, like to have the idea of like, oh,
when the grid goes down, you can't charge your car
versus if you have a gas station. It's just like
there's different like ways to get energy and having it
kind of come from different places. I think makes a
lot of sense. But these climate people they're just they're
(26:43):
not smart. They're so ideological and.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Emotional that they don't look at the downstream of impacts. Right.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
They ban plastic straws because of like a plastic pollution
project in Asia, plastic pollution problem in Asia.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
They ban plastic straws in New York. It's like very silly, and.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
It turns out paper straw don't work very well. That's
it's so strange. It is that Lucy Biggers go follow
her on ig Lucy Biggers, it's l U C YB
I G G E R s go and follow her there.
I've got to know when you were dealing with people
like AOC and I don't you personally, I think you
did deal with her. When you're dealing with Gretath Thuneberg,
what's going on with them? Do they show up? They've
got their script to read, they know Greta Thunberg. I'm
(27:21):
gonna say this, and you can tell me if I'm
right or wrong, and I'm willing to be wrong. She
seems as though there's a mental incapacity there that her
parents or the climate gurus took advantage of I literally
saw her sit down on a panel and she was
asked the question and she and then somebody else had
to answer it. She didn't know anything off the top
of her head, but she seems to be pretty good
(27:42):
at delivering a dirty look at Trump or delivering some
speech how dare you or whatever it is. I almost
feel bad for her. So when you when you dealt
with her, was am I right that there wasn't a
lot there. She was just saying what she was told
to say.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I actually was.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
So I interviewed her when she was It was twenty nineteen,
so she had have been sixteen or something like that,
and I actually thought she was I've actually interviewed her twice,
and I think she's very articulate, but she obviously has
her like stick. So I don't know if like the
same thing you saw, maybe she was like going off script.
I wasn't obviously challenging her as a friendly interview, but
I feel like she actually kind of has this quality
(28:19):
about her that obviously it.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Was enough to ignite a movement. But I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I mean, I think about AOC a lot too, because
we're the same age and we're both thirty six, but
I now have two kids.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You know, I'm a homeowner.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
And when when I was twenty eight, we were both
twenty eight, and I was a Bernie supporter at that
point too, and that's when she got elected to Congress.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And that's like, okay, well, now you're just like the
die is cast.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
That is your belief system, because now it's all your donors,
it's everything, and the social cost of going against that
would be career ruining.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
So that's amazing, step step stepstid. I got to stop
because that's amazing. I never thought about that. So in
other words, somebody like an AOC might have an awakening
like you did, but she can't afford to.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
She can't, I mean, and I don't think she has
because I I think there's so much, so many incentives
to not. But I just know because we're the same age,
and we were kind of on the same vibe. We
went to Standing Rock, we were burning people, we had
like a gardening face.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
We were kind of vibe in there for a few years.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And then I went through like COVID and I had kids,
and so I kind of went this way and I
was able to evolve as a private citizen, and I
did not start speaking out with my new beliefs until
a year ago, twenty twenty five, and.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So I can't even imagine.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
But I think, you know, at this point, she'll be
like that forever.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I think of like Jane Fonda.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Who's like in her eighties and always has been doing
the same climate bs forever. And so some people don't change.
But I do think, you know, people aren't perfect. I
don't think that they're not. I think AOC in her mind,
she is a good guy, right, she's on the right
side of his or she's helping people, and she's going
to find the information that real reiterates that belief in herself.
And if that means capitalism is evil and Elon Musk
(29:52):
is evil and on these corporations are evil, then.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That's what she's going to have to live by to
get up every day.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Let me ask him bit of a more personal question.
You don't want answer, You don't have to. When somebody
is mired in a movement like that, it's like you
must wake up and you just loathed the day. You
must wake up and just hate what you're facing. You
must wake up and think things are so bad that
I'm going to try my level best to make them better,
but by the time I go to seep tonight, it's
gonna be just as bad. And Okay, I didn't know
(30:21):
you then. Now I do know you a bit, and
you seem happy. You're so proud of your family, You're
so glad that you're like living what would be a
human beings dream, and you've got a couple of kids,
you've got a great life, and you're writing a book.
And is there a difference personally between then where I'm
guessing you woke up stuck in molasses about how bad
things are, to now where you look like you're perky
(30:43):
and bouncing off the walls.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Well, I definitely think outwardly, I've always been perky and
bouncing off the walls, But I would say inwardly, so
I think that, like, you know, if I described the
way that I felt in in er, my inner world
was very different, but I would say my eyner word,
I was maybe still coming off the same way. But
there was a lot of cognitive dissonance, and so I
actually had a lot of anxiety, intrusive thoughts. I felt
(31:07):
feelings of overwhelm and nihilism, and I didn't feel like
I had a lot of agency in my life. I
was very overwhelmed. It felt so like it was so
beyond anything that I could handle. And now I feel
like I have this like cone of control in my
life that I can control. I have emotional boundaries and
energetic boundaries about what I put my attention to, and
I don't feel like there's any conflict between how I
(31:30):
present externally and how I feel internally.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And I will say, like.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Even when I was in the movement, and maybe I've
said this to you before, but like I would have
a few glasses of wine and be like, actually, like
that's standing pipeline protest was bullshit, and I would say
that and so and or like I so like I
just think that it's like now I have the blessing
and the honor to not live a life as of
a hypocrite. And I think a lot of people actually
who are on this other side of the movement are
(31:55):
hypocrites and their cowards, and they don't want to lose
their standing within the group, and so they have private concerns,
but they're never going to voice them because if they
were to voice them, they would be canceled by the group,
and I think you see it now going politically a
little bit more macro with the Democratic Party and they're
getting overrun by the DSA Socialists. There's a lot of
people I know we're in democratic politics who are not happy.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
But are they speaking out.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well, they're not because they're, like you said, they're afraid
to not get invited to the next party. Let me
ask you one last question. We've got to do this
again very soon. I really love the knowledge that I
get from you, and I really enjoyed talking to you.
The last question is, and I think I asked you
this last time, how long did you stay with the
movement once you knew you had to leave? What was it?
I mean, do you think to yourself the same thing.
I'll be out man, I'll be canceled if I do this.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I was producing videos in twenty twenty for my old job,
when I was a climate influencer that were even starting
on the edge of questioning things like I think I
did a video about like plastic straw bands being stupid.
So I was already even in the movement starting to
be like, let's be a little bit more critical thinking.
And that was twenty twenty and then twenty twenty one,
when I left my last job, I was like, I'm
(33:05):
done with this. I'm never going to speak publicly about
this again. That was like my climate change activist era,
and I'm moving on to bigger and better things. And
that was twenty twenty one, and then so I just
then started privately educating myself. And then I didn't post
all twenty twenty five. So I was still kind of
had a foot in both worlds, but had like a
pit in my stomach. I never, like, I don't know,
(33:28):
I wanted to stay within the group, and I wanted
I was nervous about what people would think of me
and about you know, the social fallout and like some
of that stuff did happen with old coworkers and old activists,
And I know I'm not well liked in certain circles,
but I don't really care because I now find those
people to be losers.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yes, I love it. Lucy Biggers. Go and follow everywhere
at Lucy Bigger's over on Instagram, on exits, l Biggers
on substack. It's Lucy Biggers. You're writing a book. You'll
come back on We'll talk about that when you get
the book going. Yeah, I'm super proud of you for
taking a stain and I just think that you're awesome.
Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Thank you so much, very welcome.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
That's gonna do it for this one. Another unshaken and
unafraid with Joe PAGs you drop very soon. Make sure
you subscribe.
France just blamed its heat wave on your air condition
and the woman I'm about to interview used to agree
with them. First of all, do you take the blame
for why a lot of people believe what they believe
about climate?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
No, I blame al Gore. I think that's all on
my shoulders.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I think I was a useful idiot. I think I
amplified it for a few years there. But you know,
many people have taken up the cross and the cause
in my absence of from the movement, So it just
kind of keeps going. There's always this self perpetuating movement.
And it's funny seeing the heat wave this week. I
saw someone say it's like a thousand Greta tunebergs have
(00:37):
gotten their wings from this.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
So there's always people looking.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
For doom and gloom and an excuse to believe the
world's over and to sort of feel guilt and shame
for being alive as a modern human.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
In twenty twenty six, I will ask.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
You the question directly about France in a minute, but
I want to start with this. The New York Post
put this up and it says Paris official blames Americans
and their air conditioning for a europe heat wave that's
killed thirteen hundred people. It's from the New York Post.
I won't read too much of it, but I want
to give you the context. A Paris politician blamed Americans
and US air conditioning for the record breaking heat wave
(01:09):
in Europe that's resulted in more than thirteen hundred deaths.
After US tourists mocked France over the lack of air
conditioning across the country. I made one hundred and four
degree temperature as fahrenheit. Audrey poulvar or whatever, Deputy Mayor
of Paris for International Relations, claimed the situation was partly
America's fault. Lucy helped me understand, how is you? How
are you sitting in and me and I'm sitting in
(01:31):
air conditioning affecting Paris, France today. I know.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I think they're saying, maybe because of our carbon emissions
that we've added to global warming, that's probably what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, I only in France's global warming.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
The thing is like, you go back in time and
you can look at this historic data.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You can just use any AI tool.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now. I was using Gemini the other day and everyone
was freaking out in England because they broke thirty four
C you know, thirty four celsius, which is like ninety
two degrees here.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And so I look it up and I said, what
is the UK broken C before?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
And it gave me, you know, a dozens of dates
going back to the eighteen hundreds, and so you realize
that these things happen, like heat waves are so complex.
The reason the causes behind you waves are so complex, right,
we don't even fully understand why they happen.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
They have a lot to do with the air pressure
systems and everything.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I'm not a meteorologist, but to just say it's based
on carbon missions is just not true. And so people
are always trying to find excuses to I feel like,
feel guilt and shame for being modern humans. It's sort
of like their modern day religion. And it's so psychological
beyond scientific at this.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Point, it's not Lucy Biggers. Go and check her out
at Lucy Biggers over an ig. You can go check
her out at l Biggers on X substack is Lucy Biggers.
It's big g E R S. Let me give you
a little bit more context of what this person had
to say. Dear American journalists and social media influencers for days,
some of you have been criticizing and making fun of
Paris because the city does not have AC in every room.
(02:52):
Oh mg, this is so rich Pulvar Road in her
social media She continued to say, quote, as the second
largest emitter of greenhouse gas emissions in the world, you
bear a significant amount of responsibility for global warming and
the consequences we in France are experiencing. Your cities, which
are ninety percent air conditioned, are not unrelating to this,
she added, So please, enough with the lecture, just start
(03:13):
doing your part. Lucy. What I noticed about somebody like
her is that she never says what it is we're
supposed to do what she's say. Shut the AC off,
don't have AC in buildings, don't have a low mortality
rate for human beings because we don't deal with the heat.
We actually stayed nice and cool. Has anybody in your
history of being on that side and now coming to
(03:35):
fact in reality, has anybody ever made a case for
this is what I want you to do, other than
paying a carbon tax, which doesn't do anything. I can
still admit the carbon but just give me money and
it's fine, Or don't have the oil rig off the
coast of the Gulf. Have the oil rig off the
coast of Brazil somehow makes better sense. Has anybody ever
said if we do this fact science has shown this
(03:56):
will happen. Because I haven't seen it, they don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
It's so emotional. I don't think they're thinking that far ahead.
They almost can't see past their noses because they're in
such emotion and fear about this stuff, so the rational
thinking is turned off. It's really not a scientific movement.
It's a political movement. They really want de growth and
they want us to not live abundant lives. I think
they kind of hate being a human in twenty twenty six.
They want to go back to some fantasy time that
(04:19):
they don't really stay.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
And so I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I don't see the one for one except for maybe
like going to your local farmer's market. They always say
stuff like that, so not if it really makes any
logical sense. And I saw this great statistic that you know,
two million people lived in Florida in nineteen fifty and
now twenty three million people live there because the ac
we invented a c so ever moved to Florida, right,
no one was living in Florida before AC but once
(04:42):
we got it became a place to live. And so
you know, you have people living in Arizona and the
desert and all these different places, and so we know
how to adapt, we have the technology. Why the Europeans
don't want to do it. Maybe it's because all the
good ones left and came to America and all the
late losers were like left behind. But they don't have
a lot of creativity or problem solving skills.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Well, well clearly they don't. I mean, we have shown
again we can go back at history. People used to
die by the tens of thousands every year from heat
back in the day before we had AC, before it
was the modern age, before we had technology. So they're
not even accepting the fact that people are much safer today.
Human beings are much safer today. And by the way,
our air is very clean here in the United States,
cleaner than in some nations India, China, won't name too many,
(05:25):
but to blame the United States because I think, and
maybe I'm wrong about this, you use the word emotional.
I'm a man, so it don't say that word that much.
I think it might be jealousy. Is she jealous that
we can stay nice and cool during the day. Is
that what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, there's probably some sort of like American we just
to live large and everything is bigger in America, kind
of biased there. They think they're better than us because
we have all we're soft.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Maybe because we have the AC.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So come on.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Whether it's jealous, I think it would be subconscious level
of jealousy. I think consciously it's more of like a
disdain for us in the way that we live. In
the discourse of all of this, because I've been making
videos about it and seeing the context.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They're just like.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Culturally they're aoc AC is seen as something so negative
and it's just not part of the culture, and I
think it's just like a really big thing to come
up against. And I don't know, we just don't have
it here, so it's a whole other world and everyone's
mapping on their different psychologies to it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
If we look at an actual chart, and I want
to put it up there, and by the way, go
follow Lucy everywhere. She's amazing Lucy Biggers. I make sure
that I follow, and I like and I comment if
I can. I try to read. I don't know we
say repost over on TikTok or Instagram. If I see
your post, everybody should learn from what you've actually gone
through because you're so much smarter and better at this
than others for the simple reason that you literally believed
(06:44):
the other side before, and that literal belief. It took
a lot to make you understand that what you were
saying probably wasn't true or at least wasn't proven. That
takes a big person to do that. I don't know
many people who have been on both sides of the
issue like you have been. That's why urge every to
go to follow, Go and follow Lucy Biggers. Let me
show a chart on the on the screen top carbon
(07:05):
Dix side emitters. This is the latest data from twenty
twenty four. China is this is by millions of metric tons.
This is what this graph shows thirteen one hundred and
twenty five million, So that would be what thirteen billion,
one hundred twenty five million. The United States is only four,
India is at thirty one hundred, Rush is at two thousand.
Japan goes down, Iran goes down, Indonesia goes down. But
(07:26):
China is more is more than tripling what it is
that we're doing. Yet they're not complaining in Paris about China.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Why not, right, Well, I think because China projects to
the world that there're some sort of climate leader when
they're really not. And I also will say, like I think,
thinking about carbon emissions and just this one statistic, what
is behind a carbon emission? It's industry, right, you know,
it's the ability of someone to have a car. It's
ability to someone to heat their home, to turn on
a stove, to wash your clothes with a washing machine.
(07:54):
So to just simplify modern life down into just carbon emissions,
to me, is such a distorted and sort of one
layer black and white way of thinking about this. When
you really think about it, it's a it's a symbolism
of how abundant we are, and we've exported an offshort
a lot of our manufacturing to China, and so that's
why they have these huge admissions numbers now, because basically
(08:16):
all the factors are shutting down in the UK because
the energy they are so expensive, and they're going to
places like China, which is you know, lifted everybody, they're
out of poverty, and so I think the association if
you look at GDP growth over the past two hundred years,
and you look at CO two admissions. It's the same
graph because it fossil fuels, power, energy and abundance and
(08:37):
our economy. And so I don't even think about it
as a negative thing. I say, more power to them,
like build baby, build right, like lift your people out
of poverty, build the things over there like that. We
don't want to build here, and we'll do the tech stuff.
And the different types of industries are well onshore some.
But then our emissions are going to go up, and
so what's that means? People are getting jobs? And so
I kind of just dismissed the whole narrative. I mean,
(08:59):
I know the people in the climate movement love to
talk about carbon missions, but I say, I don't think
carbon missions are bad.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Well, I could be wrong, but you know, I learned
in like elementary school that carbon dioxide is what plants
breede and then plants give off oxygen. More carbon in
the atmosphere is not a horrible thing, and it's way
lower by percentage than the activists are acting like it is.
So I'm confused by that. But there's one important point
that people like this Paris person never ever even broach.
And that's why are so many people trying as hard
(09:27):
as they can to get into the United States from
places like Haiti, from places like Syria, from places like
Northern Africa, from places like name the third world country
because they don't have flowing water, they don't have electricity,
they don't have air conditioning, they don't have the creature
comforts that are adding to our life expectancy here in
the Western World. So why don't they ever focus on that?
(09:48):
They want us to be more like you know, Africa,
where there's a power outage, no internet, no water, no food,
people die in the in the thirties and forties. When
you were on that side, did anybody ever bring that up?
I'm guessing you might have because you're really smart. But
I mean, the fact that so many people want to
come here, doesn't that show our goodness anyway?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I think when I was in the movement, my my
perspective was so narrow, it was so myopic. I was
just thinking about in eighteen fifty was this temperature, and
it's this temperature today, and this much CO two has
been added to the atmosphere, and it's bad, and that
was so how I was thinking. I wasn't thinking on
a global scale, historic scale. I wasn't thinking of cost
benefit analysis of we've have more CO two, But what
are the benefit fits we get from fossil fuels? And
(10:30):
now I understand, you know, the fossil fuel powered life
that we have, the energy abundant life that we've powered.
We use thousands of watts of energy a day just
from like the showers that we take, in, the food
that we eat and everything right, and it's replaced actually
the same amount of energy that would be six hundred
human beings. So I in the olden days would need
six hundred slaves to have the energy abundant life I
(10:52):
have today. But instead I get powered by a you know,
natural gas plant that's out of sight, out of mind,
and I pay a few cents to turn on the
lights and all these things. And so we really can't
underestimate how good we have it. We truly all live
like kings. And so to me, it's like we got
a little bit of extra carbon in the atmosphere in
a degree or two. I would rather live in this
world that's warm and abundant than in a cold world.
(11:14):
And you know, require slave labor to have a comfortable life.
Now we can all do it because of these technologies.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
It's a really important point, Lucy. I mean what you
just said makes a lot of sense, because where is
there the largest amount of slavery on the planet now
in Africa? Millions of people are enslaved there. Now, we
got rid of it a long time ago, thank god.
We never should have had it. But because we became
self sufficient and we realized how morally bad it was.
It's Lucy Biggers. Go follow her at Lucy Bigger's on
(11:40):
ig at l Biggers over on X and substack is
Lucy Biggers. When you were in the movement and you
saw somebody like AOC walk out and say we're all
gonna be dead in twelve years, or al Gore say
in two thousand, the polar or the twenty fourteen, whatever
the hell it was, the polarized cap would be gone
and we would have a flood in Lower Manhattan. When
you heard things like that and that it turned out
(12:02):
never to come true. It never happened. All the predictions
were wrong. Did you What were you in such a
place that you rationalized it? Okay, they were wrong about that,
but it's going to happen eventually, or was that really
what woke you up?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I didn't think about it. I think I just didn't
know that the predictions were wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I guess because I would turn on the news and
you know, like, what's happening on with this heat wave?
And you'd hear this heat's unprecedented and it's America's fault,
it's global warming, And so I kind of just bought
that surface level understanding that was reinforced sort of passively
by the news. Right you can always find an article
that says this heating is unprecedented and it's our fault,
or this hurricane was unprecedented in our fault. There's so
(12:44):
much information out there that reiterates that point, and so
I did not know that the predictions weren't coming true
until I started to do some research. I think the
first thing that broke through for me, though, was the
fact that deaths from natural disasters were down ninety seven
percent hundred years. So then I was like, wait a minute.
One of my foundational beliefs is climate change is dangerous.
(13:06):
And then I thought, okay, well, if deaths from natural
disasters are down so significantly, even with climate change happening,
then it's not dangerous. And so that was when I
was like, let me, let me reframe this, because why
am I pushing something that's so dramatic, right, I want
to dismantle our energy system and really hurt the.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Way of life that we have. But now I'm learning
that what I'm trying to prevent is maybe not even dangerous.
And then that was when I was like, Okay, I
got to learn more.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And then I learned from reading other books that you know,
extreme weather's not gotten worse, all these other statistics and so.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You learn a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
The only thing that's really gotten a little bit more
common is heat heat waves, which we're seeing right now
obviously because we have gone through a warming period. But
I will say, we can't even tell what amount of
this warming period is just naturally occurring. This could be
fully naturally occurring, and in the next decade or two
we could go through a cooling period and then that
will really be the last nail on the coffin of
(14:04):
this stuff. But right now, because we also are warming
and the CO two is going up at the same time,
we have a correlation that we're trying to understand is
a causation too, and we don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But I guess even if we don't know, then.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You look at the global greening and it's not dangerous,
and how amazing fossil fuels are, and you kind of
look at the cost benefit and you go, I think
I'll stick with fossil fuels and like a degree or
two of warming in some greener planet, Like, I think
it's a good deal.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
But I'm with you. It's Lucy Bigger's Lucy. That's very,
very smart what you said. Let me throw this out
at you. I grew up in South Florida and we
had hurricanes when I was growing up. I grew up
we actually played football during Hurricane David. In like nineteen
seventy eight, Hurricane Andrew came through when my wife was
nine and a half months pregnant with my daughter, Sam
and it ended up going south and ruining much of
(14:51):
south of US. We were in Palm Beach County. But
we were told back then, even from I would guess
the mid eighties on because they were early seventies, they
were talking about global cooling. But we were told that
hurricanes are getting more intense, more numerous, We're getting way
more storms than ever. And I remember, like the year
two thousand, I went to Florida. I was a TV
news anchor in Michigan. I went to Florida to cover
the hurricanes. There were a lot of hurricanes in the
(15:13):
year two thousand and I went there and we were
told gonna be seventeen to twenty named storms every year,
and then like two thousand and five, we had Hurricane
Katrina pretty bad, and we had some others in that area,
and then suddenly not so much, and nobody said anything.
Those who were on your former side were telling us
it would be more and more storms, it'd be more intense.
And it turns out you probably already know this. We
(15:33):
didn't have really sophisticated equipment to test and really gauge
how bad these hurricanes were back in the day, and
now we have better gauges that are saying the hurricanes
are way more intense. No, it turns out, of you
today's gauging and check out the ones from before, they
were just as intense. So that's another big lie that
I think you probably fell for for a while. Again,
(15:53):
was that part of your awakening to go, wait a second,
the tools to measure these things weren't so good back then.
We aren't having fifteen to twenty names storms. We aren't seeing,
you know, California fall off the edge of the earth
because of new tornadoes and earthquakes and fill in the
blank whatever whatever people in America cause. Was that part
of your awakening where you said, wait a second, these
storms weren't that bad, or they were worse than that
(16:15):
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Speaker 2 (17:23):
My name is George Washington.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, I thought there was gonna be a Hurricane Katrina
every year. And then I went to college in New
Orleans and there was a hurricane. I got evacuated my
first year, and then we had Hurricane Sandy hit my hometown.
And so I think there was a very busy hurricane
season in the early two thousand's.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Now we've been in a very quiet period where there
were no land following hurricanes last year.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And I think weather is cyclical, and I think we
even saw this a few examples off the top of
my head. California was in a drought for a decade.
It's now no longer in a drought, right, It's all
this historic rain for a few years.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So there's that.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Then like these even these heat waves in Europe. A
really great meteorologist, you should have him on. His name's
Chris Marts. He's a really smart guy. And she, oh, yeah, okay.
So he talks about how even this heat wave right now,
it's cyclical, it's because of some I don't know, high
pressure or something something. I'm not a meterroologist, but it's
like it could not even be about like you know,
the cycle could change now, it's going to go into
some cooling periods, and so like just because you have
(18:24):
ten years of data on something, it doesn't really mean
it's a sign that like it's CO two. And then
the direct cause is this heat wave. But you know,
even with snow, we've been having a lot of more
snow in my region of Connecticut, and they're saying, well,
these extreme these extreme cold is also because.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Of climate change.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
But then you look at like the UN data, which
again it's looking for crisis. It wants to find all
the evidence to freak us out, and it's like cold
spells of decreased, snowpack has decreased, and so you're like,
wait a minute, you can't have it both ways like is.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It more drafts? Is it more is it more rain?
Is it more snow? Is it more warmth? Like? But
that's when you kind of go, wait a minute, this
isn't side centific.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
It's a propaganda, political tool that everyone uses to get.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Their means of power through.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
And a lot of people, you know, having more control
of our energy system and energy prices and all these
things is a means of control.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And maybe for some people it's happening. It's on a
subconscious level.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
They think that they are on the right side of history,
that they're helping people, and so they you know, make
exceptions for maybe fudging a little bit here and there,
because it's like for the good of humanity, which is psychopathic.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
But people are flawed.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Well, I like where you just went because it tells
me that I think those who do the job that
you used to do really do think they're helping. They
really do think they're making the world better. They think
that it's going to be better for our children if
we should have children. Maybe we shouldn't because that's harming
the climate. But the overlords, and I think that you
know this now, the overlords are trying to make money.
I can go fly in a private jetif I want.
(19:54):
Not that I do, but I can do that if
I give them a bunch of money for my carbon footprint,
Like that's going to solve the problem. What was that
carbon footprint money supposed to do other than enrich people?
Can you somehow dial back the carbon because I paid
you X amount of dollars per cubic inch? I don't
get it. What was that supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, that was supposed to like add to green technology.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
But again it's just putting it into government's hands that
pick winners and losers. And the biggest evidence for this.
It's so funny, Like al Gore was worth two million
dollars when he left becoming when he was vice president
he left office, and he's worth three hundred and thirty
million dollars now because he has a fund that technology
and carbon. Yeah, so weird. And it's so funny because
(20:35):
I really like a lot of these scientists that are
on the other side, the climate realists, people at the
CO two Coalition in Heartland Institute, and I so quickly
get well, they're taking energy money from X, Y and
Z and I when I was in the climate movement,
I never got that critique of al Gore, no one
questions his motives. So just funny when you are on
the opposite side and on the practical common sense side,
people are like, what's your funding, when like, there's so
(20:57):
much more evidence that these climate activists and these tim
at shills essentially are the ones making so much money
off of this, But they don't get tarnished with that
in the same way that like I get called fossil
fuel shill underneath every single one of my videos. And
I've never taken money from fossil fuels because intentionally unfortunately
for my wallet, because I can't, I don't. I want
to be able to say full throated I've never taken
(21:19):
money from energy because I want to be able to
say I want to be I'm such I'm so passionate
about being an advocate, and so it's just funny, like
I've never taken money from any special interests, but all
these climate activists are taking money from these special interests
and they have I mean even like the CCP, we
now know fun screen energy programs here in America because
(21:40):
it's in their interests. They own all of the supply
chains for solar and wind, and they know, an unreliable
energy grid for America is just overall good for them.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And what are they building it. I think they're building
a cold plant per week in China. As they're funding
energy here. They're building, you know, the dirtiest energy they
can there. It's Lucy Biggers that Lucy Biggers over on
Instrum go Ahead.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I was gonna say, I think the solar and wind
industry is just a jobs program for their people, right
Like they're just doing it around the margin so that
they have factories to like employ villagers and not have
like civil unrest. But when you look at these technologies
other than nuclear, of course, which is the one thing
that the environmental movement vilified, that's really the only thing
that is comparable. And we're just talking about the electricity grid,
(22:22):
by the way, we're not talking about construction, cement, airplanes, shipping.
All of those things right now are one hundred percent
nearly fossil fuels because solar and wind you can't get
enough power to do those things, and nuclear is just
really electricity. So yeah, you really look at it, you
can look at it from every angle and none of
it makes sense. And overall we've spent i think it's
(22:45):
eleven trillion dollars on this green transition, and three percent
of our energy is now solar and wind, and you could,
you know, put a billion You can put eleven billion
trees and basically solve like urban heat highland effect in
these cities that are really hot right now. Eleven we
could plant eleven billion trees and that we'd still have
money left over or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So like it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's how Lucy Biggers always appreciate the time in the
Access You mentioned Alga a couple of times. Why were
there never any ramifications for al Gore when we found
out his electric bill every month was twenty thousand dollars?
I mean, honestly, he was using more electricity than like
city blocks in many places. And when we said, hey,
al Gore is driving around in a dirty private jet,
it's an old one that really puts out the emissions
(23:28):
and his electricity bills twenty thousand dollars a month at
his house in Tennessee or whatever, why didn't that? Why
did that not stick to you? Think because the media
is on his side. I mean, what is that?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah? I think Semdia' is on his side. I think
he is just the good guys, right.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
This is like Thomas sol we'll talk about this, the
Visions of the Anointed People. This is like an old
book he wrote in the nineties that I felt was
very sorrelevant to today. It's like, if you're the good
guy who's always on the side of the media for
the underdog, and you project compassion and concern, people don't
really think deeper than that, and so they're just like,
he's a good guy, we don't want to drag him.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
But then if you're someone like a Trump who's a
realist and kind of poking the bear but saying the truth,
you get dragged by the media because they just don't
know what to do with you. And I think from
my own experience of being on that side to this side,
it's like I'm a lot more criticized and scrutinized from
being on this side because I'm no longer seen as good.
I'm seen as an op and I'm a negative influence
(24:24):
because I'm no longer on the side of the underdog.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
But when you actually look at it, it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
The climate movement is so destructive for just energy access,
and so you still have a billion people who don't
have reliable energy. They're cooking their food with wood that
they have to go collect with, you know, and so
that means their kids are spending their day collecting fuel.
Their kids aren't going to school. The single biggest thing
you can do for that population of people is give
them a gas stove. And so if you really wanted
(24:50):
to help humanity, you'd really actually be advocating for the
proliferation of natural gas or propane gas stoves and getting
these people even have a light bulb revolutionary for people
so they can study. And so these activists are the
ones who promote policies that make energy less affordable, less accessible,
and they end up hurting people.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
So everything is like the upside down world. It's very
silly and weird.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
What was that push to get rid of gas stoves
all about? Is there somebody from the electricity lobby that
doesn't want gas stoves? I never understood that electricity comes
from a grid. The grid has to be powered somehow.
We're not for nuclear, which would be the most efficient.
We're for me generally speaking, we're using fossil fuels to
power the grid that then powers electric stoves. What was
(25:36):
that all about do you know.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I just think that there are a lot of politicians
to a very surface level understanding of these issues, and
then lobbyists come to them and say, hey, this is
what people want, let's ban this thing, and so these
policies get passed without that next line of reasoning of
what are the downstream impacts. You see this a lot
with just like it's virtue signaling policies, and unfortunately, you
(25:59):
have a lot of climate policies in places like New
York and Colorado where they're trying to lower their emissions
from heating and all these different things by a certain amount.
And it's really going to hit the fan when these
these deadlines come down, because it's exorbitantly expensive to electrify
your heating or even your gas.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And it's funny too, because.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
When you get everything reliable on the grid, like you said,
it's like all of a sudden, everything's coming from that grid,
and so you're just more vulnerable. Even with like an
electric car, like to have the idea of like, oh,
when the grid goes down, you can't charge your car
versus if you have a gas station. It's just like
there's different like ways to get energy and having it
kind of come from different places. I think makes a
lot of sense. But these climate people they're just they're
(26:43):
not smart. They're so ideological and.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Emotional that they don't look at the downstream of impacts. Right.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
They ban plastic straws because of like a plastic pollution
project in Asia, plastic pollution problem in Asia.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
They ban plastic straws in New York. It's like very silly, and.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
It turns out paper straw don't work very well. That's
it's so strange. It is that Lucy Biggers go follow
her on ig Lucy Biggers, it's l U C YB
I G G E R s go and follow her there.
I've got to know when you were dealing with people
like AOC and I don't you personally, I think you
did deal with her. When you're dealing with Gretath Thuneberg,
what's going on with them? Do they show up? They've
got their script to read, they know Greta Thunberg. I'm
(27:21):
gonna say this, and you can tell me if I'm
right or wrong, and I'm willing to be wrong. She
seems as though there's a mental incapacity there that her
parents or the climate gurus took advantage of I literally
saw her sit down on a panel and she was
asked the question and she and then somebody else had
to answer it. She didn't know anything off the top
of her head, but she seems to be pretty good
(27:42):
at delivering a dirty look at Trump or delivering some
speech how dare you or whatever it is. I almost
feel bad for her. So when you when you dealt
with her, was am I right that there wasn't a
lot there. She was just saying what she was told
to say.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I actually was.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
So I interviewed her when she was It was twenty nineteen,
so she had have been sixteen or something like that,
and I actually thought she was I've actually interviewed her twice,
and I think she's very articulate, but she obviously has
her like stick. So I don't know if like the
same thing you saw, maybe she was like going off script.
I wasn't obviously challenging her as a friendly interview, but
I feel like she actually kind of has this quality
(28:19):
about her that obviously it.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Was enough to ignite a movement. But I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I mean, I think about AOC a lot too, because
we're the same age and we're both thirty six, but
I now have two kids.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You know, I'm a homeowner.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
And when when I was twenty eight, we were both
twenty eight, and I was a Bernie supporter at that
point too, and that's when she got elected to Congress.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And that's like, okay, well, now you're just like the
die is cast.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
That is your belief system, because now it's all your donors,
it's everything, and the social cost of going against that
would be career ruining.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
So that's amazing, step step stepstid. I got to stop
because that's amazing. I never thought about that. So in
other words, somebody like an AOC might have an awakening
like you did, but she can't afford to.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
She can't, I mean, and I don't think she has
because I I think there's so much, so many incentives
to not. But I just know because we're the same age,
and we were kind of on the same vibe. We
went to Standing Rock, we were burning people, we had
like a gardening face.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
We were kind of vibe in there for a few years.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And then I went through like COVID and I had kids,
and so I kind of went this way and I
was able to evolve as a private citizen, and I
did not start speaking out with my new beliefs until
a year ago, twenty twenty five, and.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So I can't even imagine.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
But I think, you know, at this point, she'll be
like that forever.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I think of like Jane Fonda.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Who's like in her eighties and always has been doing
the same climate bs forever. And so some people don't change.
But I do think, you know, people aren't perfect. I
don't think that they're not. I think AOC in her mind,
she is a good guy, right, she's on the right
side of his or she's helping people, and she's going
to find the information that real reiterates that belief in herself.
And if that means capitalism is evil and Elon Musk
(29:52):
is evil and on these corporations are evil, then.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That's what she's going to have to live by to
get up every day.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Let me ask him bit of a more personal question.
You don't want answer, You don't have to. When somebody
is mired in a movement like that, it's like you
must wake up and you just loathed the day. You
must wake up and just hate what you're facing. You
must wake up and think things are so bad that
I'm going to try my level best to make them better,
but by the time I go to seep tonight, it's
gonna be just as bad. And Okay, I didn't know
(30:21):
you then. Now I do know you a bit, and
you seem happy. You're so proud of your family, You're
so glad that you're like living what would be a
human beings dream, and you've got a couple of kids,
you've got a great life, and you're writing a book.
And is there a difference personally between then where I'm
guessing you woke up stuck in molasses about how bad
things are, to now where you look like you're perky
(30:43):
and bouncing off the walls.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Well, I definitely think outwardly, I've always been perky and
bouncing off the walls, But I would say inwardly, so
I think that, like, you know, if I described the
way that I felt in in er, my inner world
was very different, but I would say my eyner word,
I was maybe still coming off the same way. But
there was a lot of cognitive dissonance, and so I
actually had a lot of anxiety, intrusive thoughts. I felt
(31:07):
feelings of overwhelm and nihilism, and I didn't feel like
I had a lot of agency in my life. I
was very overwhelmed. It felt so like it was so
beyond anything that I could handle. And now I feel
like I have this like cone of control in my
life that I can control. I have emotional boundaries and
energetic boundaries about what I put my attention to, and
I don't feel like there's any conflict between how I
(31:30):
present externally and how I feel internally.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And I will say, like.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Even when I was in the movement, and maybe I've
said this to you before, but like I would have
a few glasses of wine and be like, actually, like
that's standing pipeline protest was bullshit, and I would say
that and so and or like I so like I
just think that it's like now I have the blessing
and the honor to not live a life as of
a hypocrite. And I think a lot of people actually
who are on this other side of the movement are
(31:55):
hypocrites and their cowards, and they don't want to lose
their standing within the group, and so they have private concerns,
but they're never going to voice them because if they
were to voice them, they would be canceled by the group,
and I think you see it now going politically a
little bit more macro with the Democratic Party and they're
getting overrun by the DSA Socialists. There's a lot of
people I know we're in democratic politics who are not happy.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
But are they speaking out.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well, they're not because they're, like you said, they're afraid
to not get invited to the next party. Let me
ask you one last question. We've got to do this
again very soon. I really love the knowledge that I
get from you, and I really enjoyed talking to you.
The last question is, and I think I asked you
this last time, how long did you stay with the
movement once you knew you had to leave? What was it?
I mean, do you think to yourself the same thing.
I'll be out man, I'll be canceled if I do this.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I was producing videos in twenty twenty for my old job,
when I was a climate influencer that were even starting
on the edge of questioning things like I think I
did a video about like plastic straw bands being stupid.
So I was already even in the movement starting to
be like, let's be a little bit more critical thinking.
And that was twenty twenty and then twenty twenty one,
when I left my last job, I was like, I'm
(33:05):
done with this. I'm never going to speak publicly about
this again. That was like my climate change activist era,
and I'm moving on to bigger and better things. And
that was twenty twenty one, and then so I just
then started privately educating myself. And then I didn't post
all twenty twenty five. So I was still kind of
had a foot in both worlds, but had like a
pit in my stomach. I never, like, I don't know,
(33:28):
I wanted to stay within the group, and I wanted
I was nervous about what people would think of me
and about you know, the social fallout and like some
of that stuff did happen with old coworkers and old activists,
And I know I'm not well liked in certain circles,
but I don't really care because I now find those
people to be losers.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yes, I love it. Lucy Biggers. Go and follow everywhere
at Lucy Bigger's over on Instagram, on exits, l Biggers
on substack. It's Lucy Biggers. You're writing a book. You'll
come back on We'll talk about that when you get
the book going. Yeah, I'm super proud of you for
taking a stain and I just think that you're awesome.
Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Thank you so much, very welcome.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
That's gonna do it for this one. Another unshaken and
unafraid with Joe PAGs you drop very soon. Make sure
you subscribe.
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