August 8, 2026 • 32 mins
Did history in North America really start just a few hundred years ago, or is there physical proof of advanced human civilization dating back thousands of years?
In this episode, explorer, author, and filmmaker Mike Collins joins Joe Pags to unpack one of the most intriguing—and ignored—ancient sites in the country: the Sage Wall in Montana. Measuring 275 feet long and 25 feet high, this massive megalithic structure has been virtually bypassed by mainstream academia for nearly three decades.
Joe and Mike dive into the pushback against rewriting ancient history, the gatekeeping within establishment archaeology, site preservation issues at Göbekli Tepe, and why the conventional narrative around human history may be built on a flawed foundation.
Get Mike Collins’ book "Lost Then Found: A Traveler's Quest for Truth":
https://wanderingwolfproductions.com
Follow Mike Collins on YouTube: @wanderingwolf
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
They found a wall in Montana bigger than a football field,
twenty five feet tall, thousands of years old, and mainstream
historians refuse to look at it. Why you're about to
find out, Let's go directly to Montana because my upbringing
said that this area where we live showed up sort
of in history about I don't know less than a
(00:20):
thousand years ago, five six, seven hundred years ago, and
it turns out it might be tens of thousands of
years old. What is in Montana that I can learn from?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, if what we are uncovering up in Montana turns
out to be of human construction, that would push dates
back for the Americas significantly. It's a site called the
Stage Wall. It is on private land owned by Chris
and Linda, who are the owners of the land up
(00:50):
there at a place called Sage Mountain Center. So this
is what appears to be a megalithic wall about two
hundred and seventy five in length, about twenty five feet high,
and it has a lot of the similarities for ancient
sites around the world, similar to places like Saksi, Woman
and Peru where you see these megalithic structures that really
(01:12):
confound people as to how these kinds of structures were built.
These are things that we don't do today, even we're
not even able to do today. So this would be
up there of the level of things like stone hinge
to pyramids, places like in Peru like Machu Picu and
sacs of woman that if this turns out to be
(01:34):
something that is man made and constructed.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Well, have we, through archaeology found the remains the bones
of people that are twelve thousand years old in the Americas?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, so we have. You know, this this site, very
interestingly is right near the Clovis sites where we have
discovered bones and things from ancient humans, right in that
area in the Montana area, So I think it's only
(02:05):
you know, it's less than fifty miles away from another site,
another ancient site there, so there's a lot of stuff
going on out there. The site itself sits on an
area called the Boulder Batholith Region, and since the discovery
of the site in the late nineties by the property owners,
you know, it's been notoriously overlooked by archaeologists or geologists
(02:25):
who just have no interest in going out there to
check this out. So weird. Yeah, whether this site ends
up being man made or not. It's certainly warrants investigation
and a closer look at which the property owners have
been funding themselves. So there is data being released. They've
just released a lot of data to the public from
(02:47):
ground penetrating radar to light are and it's produced some
interesting results at the site there.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, what's interesting do you mean? My good, it's my college.
He's a filmmaker, explorer, author Wandering Wolf Productions dot com.
Go follow them over on line and get his book
called Lost and Found. What jumps out of me? And
I've had a conversation with Graham Hancock about this. It
seems as though the modern day so called historians or
those people who are pretending to be the all knowing
when it comes to archaeology and history. They don't want
(03:17):
to know what's in Montana. They don't want to know
that civilization in the Americas could go back twelve thousand years.
They don't want to know what's being uncovered in South America,
what's happening over in Europe? Why is that? Why don't
they want to know? Because they want to be the
be all end all when it comes to information. I
don't get it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, we really have an Ivory Tower situation here where
it's like, you know, it rewrites. Rewriting history is clearly
something that's pushed back against by academics, and it's been
that way for quite a long time. So, you know,
rewriting history. We've continued to have to do that, but
(03:51):
archaeologists seemingly want to be the ones that are responsible
for doing that if there needs to be changes. You know,
we've experienced as recently with Goeck sites like go Beckley
Teppe pushing back the dates for our you know, stuff
like our theories around being hunter gatherers, and then that
(04:11):
site dating back over ten thousand years eleven thousand years
with megalithic construction. So I completely wrote, rewrote the narrative.
You know, we're still talking about Christopher Columbus coming over
and discovering the Americas when we know the vikings and stuff,
we're here way before that, and there's all sorts of
stuff in the America specifically that is often overlooked. It's
(04:33):
not like these things are unknown or archaeologists don't talk
about it or don't know about it, but the average
public consumer or person who's interested in these things aren't
typically aware of stuff like Cohokia or the mound cultures
in the America which pushed these dates far further back
(04:54):
than is typically discussed or talk about. But yeah, there's
a lot of gate keeping going on.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
When you talk about these monumental walls, these unbelievable structures.
Twelve thousand years ago, they didn't have anything. They had
nothing like what we have today. We haven't found the
remains of machinery from back then or technology from back then,
but they somehow got it done. Same thing with the Pyramids.
I have a friend who just got back from Egypt
and she interviews a guy who was convinced that laborers
(05:21):
decided to work for thirty years to take one rocket
a time go build the Pyramids. Do we have any
better idea today on what it is or that was
the technology of the day where you could have built
an incredible, you know, perfectly symmetrical wall and arena and
you know palaces that they look like that were uncovering
all over the world. Do we have any idea how
they did that, because, as you said, we probably couldn't
(05:42):
do that planet and do it today in any sort
of you know, quick timing. And I don't know that
we have the machinery today. Do we know how they
did it?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, we don't know how they did it. There's a
lot of things when without getting into speculation around certain
theories around like out there theories that typically negate the
conversation with someone like an academic, what we are seeing.
What we can say from this is that the typical
viewpoint of this linear progression of humankind that kind of
(06:10):
starts way down here and then goes way up here
doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like there
were more likely cycles of advancement through the course of
history dating bench further back than you know. The established
narrative is credit for it of cultures and societies that
(06:31):
were by far more advanced than we like to give
credit for, who are capable of doing these things and
constructing these monuments from our past that still exists today
that we can't explain.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, Mike, what, let me ask you this, then, did
they all die? Because why wouldn't that technology just get
better and better and better and better. If you go
to the exception of cell phones, which is infantile compared
to what we're talking about, but it's a gigantic bag.
You had to carry around. Then it was a block
a look like a brick, and then it was a
smaller thing, that small thing small. We just built on
the technology. If they had this incredible technology, which clearly
(07:04):
they did, unless we're gonna say aliens did it, and
I know we don't want to get into that, but
if they have this incredible technology, unless they all died,
wouldn't it be left over for their their children and
their children's children and so on? And then we would
have built upon the technology that was able to create
these incredible structures.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, absolutely, it would be that way, except that we
throughout history see these uh collapses as a civilization of cultures,
of societies, these these you know, catastrophic collapses. And I'm
not even going back into like the younger, dryest theories
and things like the you know, getting into like the
biblical flood and things like that. I'm just talking about
(07:40):
the natural ebb and flow of collapsing societies back down
to base levels. You know, we watched it with Rome.
There's plenty of of of cultures and things that have
reached these peaks and then just completely fallen apart through
internal struggle, struggles, war and all sorts of things, from
economics to all sorts of different factors that have collapsed civilizations.
(08:02):
You reach a certain level at a peak where technology
reaches a point. If everything in America or worldwide collapse
right now, how many people would know how to make
a phone. Nobody's gonna know how to make a phone
or a computer, right So this idea of being able
to just you know, having a societal collapse and then
(08:24):
pass on that knowledge people during a collapse like that,
they're worried about survival. There's no more money. You go
down to base level bartering systems just for survival. So
things like phones, computers, and things that might have even
existed in the past would not survive.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Can you imagine if they had computers and phones and
faster internet than we have today. I mean, that would
be it's mind boggling to think about. But we clearly
don't have any idea what the everyday life was of
a human being on Earth twelve thousand years ago. Do
we do? Do we have an idea like ooke up
in the morning and then did this before going to bed?
We have no clue, do we.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, if you listen to modern academics, then you know,
we were hunter gatherers Andy, and before we moved into
agrarian societies and armors and things like that. But you know, yeah, again,
the evidence for these ancient sites speaks otherwise. You know,
(09:23):
we've got a site like O Beckley Teppe with megalithic
structures dating back over ten thousand years that pushed the
entire framework of human progression back by thousands of years
and upon its discovery, and you know, those are things
that hunter gatherers weren't doing. I think anybody, you know,
(09:43):
any reasonable person can look at a site like that
and say, hey, this took a lot more to align
this with the stars, to be astronomically aligned, to be
these giant megalithic blocks and structures and things like that
have put this in place in the ways in which
they did.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's Mike Collins, the Wandering Wolf. Go to a Wandering
Wolf over on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. Get his
book called Lost Then Found, A Traveler's Quest for Truth.
I haven't traveled extensively. I did go to Italy when
I was fifteen. My grandfather, who was from Italy, would
take a bunch of us every once in a while,
and I did get to go to the coliseum. I
did get to see some of the ruins I got.
Seeing it in person is so different than seeing it
(10:21):
in a picture, even in a video, because there's something
gigantic about what they were able to achieve way back
in the day. So tell me about the first time
you went and saw something in person and what that
was inside of you that said, I really need to
go experience these things. And what blew your mind that
you were standing in front of it or in it
for the first time.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It was, yeah, super easy to reference. I started traveling
and the first ancient site that I visited, I've been
into this stuff for years. First ancient site I visited
was a site in Peru called Saxu Wuman, and standing
in front of that site and these massive megalithic stones
just immediately I just knew, immediately in that moment, this
is what I wanted to do with my life. And
(11:03):
it's been a wild ride since it's been about ten years.
I've now visited somewhere over three hundred plus ancient sites
around the world and documented them. And yeah, it was
you know what the prevailing thought at the time that
stuck with me through all these years, is if people
were capable of doing something like this that long ago,
(11:26):
what I might what might I be capable of just
doing with my life? Like you know, at the time,
there was a lot of you know, my life was
very different than and so there's been a lot of uh,
you know, work on bettering myself over the years, and
I go over that in my book. It's a real
raw look at that process throughout the years, and so
that really stuck with me. If people could do this
(11:47):
back then, supposedly primitive people back then, can I not
just do something as simple as change my life and
pursue a dream? And that's how this all started.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's Mike Collins, the Wandering Wolf. So you go to
Peru and you're blown way by it? Is the first question?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
How?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Or is the first question? I didn't know? I mean,
does all that bubble up? And you say to yourself,
I need to figure out how the hell they did this?
And the only way to do that is to go
and stand and be present at all of these sites
that I've now hearing about? Or was that the first
one that you heard about? And then you said there
must be more like this? And then you started to
expand your reach.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's very much like what you just mentioned on
your trip to Italy. There's something different between you know,
knowing about these places, seeing them, and then being there
in person. It's it's completely different. So you know, being
there and seeing it for yourself, it's it's very much
a changing experience. And what I wanted to do was
share that I love getting into the details of these
(12:41):
sites and you know, going over you know, picking and
pulling at threads through history and seeing how it might
all be connected. But what I'm really motivated by is
documenting things and sharing that with the with the world
in a way that other people might be motivated to
go have these experiences for themselves. That's really where I
focused my energy on, is documenting sites worldwide. I really
(13:04):
love getting into the lesser known sites or the harder
to reach sites, and then sharing that with the public
so they might, as I was, be motivated to go
out there, travel a little bit see something for themselves,
because I truly believe it'll change you as a person
having those experiences in real life.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's not Mike Collins The Wandering Wolf, a couple of
schools of thought. Let's rebuild what they used to have
and see the way they looked in ancient times, or
let's uncover it and show what's left and not touch
because it's sacred. Where are you on that?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, that's a tough one. Look, I'm not against archaeological reconstruction.
I just happened to feel after visiting so many sites
all around the world, what I've noticed is that there
is a process. So you know, when you go to
places like Tiataea Khan, I think the average traveler, which
is down in Mexico, just outside of Mexico City, it's
(13:58):
the massive pyramid down there that's all concrete, So so
you know, they've completely rebooted that site with poured concrete
and stone. So you know, when you go to these sites,
the average person doesn't know that.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
And as you start going as to as many sites
as I've been around the world, you start being able
to see the level of reconstruction, you start asking yourself, Okay, well,
what is the point here? Is the point here to
rebuild the site to its approximation of what it used
to be? Or are we are we now looking at
the you know, kind of the the taking advantage of
(14:34):
these sites for tourism dollars, and it.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Could be they could be reimagining them. Did they actually
know what they used to look like? Or are they
saying it probably kind of looked like this week can
make some money on it. Courage is in something that
you discover when life is easy. In fact, is revealed
when standing for your faith comes with a cost. We
all know what happened to my friend Charlie Kirk. He'd
been in my show six times. He was somebody they
texted back and forth with, and he was somebody that
(14:57):
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shaped every decision he made, who loved his family, invested
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(15:18):
It asks the question every Christian should consider, what am
I willing to stand for?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Really?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
In a world that constantly pressures believers that stay quiet,
Charlie's story reminds us that following Christ has always required boldness, humility,
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If you're looking for a story that will challenge and
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(15:44):
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Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's the issue, and you
have to start looking at the underlying factors here. You
look heritage tourism, which is what this is, is something
around eight hundred and billion dollars a year industry right now.
It's projected to top of trillion dollars per year worldwide
by twenty thirty. Wow, So it's May and that's only growing.
(16:22):
There's no sign of this slowing down. You know, you
have people completely building careers out of this now on
YouTube and different things, similar to what I've done here
over the last ten years. So you know, going around
visiting these sites and documenting them, and I think it's
really important that people are doing that, documenting these places
before they get completely rebuilt and turned over to these
(16:43):
international corporations that start running these sites for tourism dollars,
and these places start guilding, built over and stuff. You know,
we've had a huge controversy over the last several years
with that at a site that I just mentioned, Go
Beckle Tepee over in Turkey, which I was fortunate enough
a visit on the day that they removed olive trees
that were planning on the site, and that was a
(17:04):
big point of contention for people that were saying this
needed to be removed, and archaeologists saying, oh, it was fine.
And then you know, I was able to show up
there just by happenstance on the day that they removed
those trees to help preserve that site. It just took
them forever to do that. And the other big issue
there was if you look at that site, there's massive plans.
(17:27):
This is this is probably the most right now, the
most important ancient site in the world. It's the one
that pushes these dates back significantly and has rewritten history
in such a huge way. And they're building massive steel
pylons for walkways directly into the center and the heart
of that site. And building you know, hotels and and
(17:47):
and things right outside the front of that that whole area,
and you know there's plans for just a massive level
of tourism. So you're balancing this, you know, finding the
truth about history and I'm covering that and looking for
(18:08):
secret you know, looking for the information about our past,
and then managing the tourism aspected. They did a lot
of these sites. They do need to make money to
fund the archaeological work. I get that, but there needs
to be a balance. You know, when a site like
go Beckley Teppy has only been excavated maybe somewhere between
five to ten percent for as many years as they've
(18:28):
been working on that site, but yet we're seeing them
build luxury hotels and that's just dumb. Yeah, and million
dollars walkways.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I'll give you an example that I think that will
really illustrate this to the audience, and hopefully this will
illustrated to you too. And again it's just like yesterday.
Graceland is exactly the way that it was when Elvis
was alive. I've been there several times, Big Elvis fan,
you walk in his nineteen seventy five TV is there
his record player is there. The same piano was there.
They didn't change it whatsoever. Across the street, you got
(19:00):
a bunch of hotels and a bunch of places where
you can go and stay. And I think that's what
you're laying down. Don't don't mess with go Beckley Tepee.
I mean, build the hotels a mile away or two
miles or three miles away. Let us continue our work here.
If they're building new structure to get people into it,
to see it, to collect money, they're ruining the Did
they not know they're ruining the original structure? If they
changed Graceland, I'd be mad, I'll be honest with you,
(19:21):
I'd be very upset that it's not exactly the way
it was when he died. And this is again, fifty
years ago. Why wouldn't they be at least smart enough
to say, let's just not mess with this place. We'll
go do it over there.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, I'm one hundred percent with you on that. That's
exactly where I where I rest on this issue is
is I'm not against there being tourism. You know, I
want to go to these places. I want to see
these places, but not at the expense of, you know,
damaging the site, or you know, paving over a building
(19:54):
on top of areas that might have significance later on
that we don't know about yet, right, So yeah, I
think it should be handled more carefully. And the problem
is you get these detached corporations coming in and start
running the show and they need a return. So you know,
like with go Beckley Teppy of the Doses Group, which
there is an international company come in and buy their
(20:14):
rights to manage that site and collect money for I
can't remember the exact amount, but it was. You know,
it's just a few million dollars to get rights to
run that site for twenty years and they collect and
collect the money on the on the on the on
the sites from that, so it you know, it's it
can be done both ways. If you know, profits don't
(20:39):
have to be one thousand percent per person on the
on on on the site. So absolutely, you know there's
a way to do it responsibly. And I would think
that archaeologists would be and look, there's a look. I
don't want to sit here and detegrate all archaeologists. I've
(21:00):
most archaeologists that I've talked to in person, one hundred
percent of the archaeologists that I've talked to face to
face are amazing. But what you have online is archaeologists
that are seeming to be more focused on becoming personalities themselves,
whether that's YouTubers or whatever. They have side things going on,
(21:20):
and so their interesting levels seem to just be whatever
someone like me or other people who are interested in
these topics might say. It's like they just instantly take
the opposite viewpoint, which.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Is Mike Collins. Go get his book called Lost and
Found The Travelers Quest for Truth. Go follow them on
YouTube right now. Wandering Wolf is his act over on YouTube.
Let me ask him more about Go Beckley Teppe, because
I think I know why this was so monumental. I'm
going to say it, and you can tell me how
dumb I am, but I definitely want you to expand
upon it. I think this blew out of the water
(21:52):
the supposition of how long humans have been on Earth
because of this discovery. It shows an age that goes
well than what we used to think right on.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Might expand upon that. Just tell me when was this discovered?
Why is this so important?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah? Well, you know, it's important because it pushed back
our understanding of history that linear path that I was
talking about a progression of humans. This predates everything and
shows that there was a level of sophistication building of
monuments and structures and things that we were told for
so long was not true. And often this is what
(22:30):
we're saying. You know, people like myself who have traveled
around the world looked at sites all over the place.
I may not have a degree and something related to
this field, but at what point do you need to
see enough? You know, is three hundred sites around the world,
documenting three hundred sites and seeing similarities between these things
enough to have an opinion. Yes, you know that's my opinion.
(22:53):
Ten years of research and traveling and documenting sites everywhere
around the world, you know, I think entitles me to
at least have an opinion, whether you agree with that
or not. And what we're saying here is that we
keep having things show up and shut and prove that
history is not what it has been written to be,
(23:14):
and that we should remain open minded for new discoveries
and entertaining ideas that may seem oftentimes out of the
realm of possibilities, because they do seem to keep being
proven true.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It is Mike Collins go and grab his book called
Lost and Found. And again let's go back to what
I mentioned earlier on in the interview. The establishment for
some reason doesn't want to believe they were wrong for
all these years. Why not when you're studying history, is
it about isn't it about uncovering the actual story? I mean,
who cares so far? It could go back five billion years?
If we find that out, that's cool. We should learn
(23:46):
about that. Why are they so against averse to saying,
you know what, for the past fifty years we were
wrong and we found this out. Look how right we
are now? I mean it's still them that gets the credit.
What's the difference?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's a lot of
books that will have to be rewritten.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
So what rewrite them? That's cold? Make more money on it.
I mean, I don't understand. Look, I completely look like you.
I learn a lot about my field, and I really
love being right and I love proving people wrong. But
if I've been shown the light and been shown that
what I thought for all these years was wrong, I
would say, man, I had no idea. Guess what I
(24:24):
can now tell you? The right story? I mean, if
anything it vindicates historians continuing to find more history.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of strings
attached to these types of professions when you're working in
you know, the you know, the academic setting, whether it's
colleges or whatever, right or you're working for the government
in a lot of different countries doing these excavation work.
But the money isn't it's usually coming from private funding.
(24:53):
A lot of times, a lot of these things come
with strings attached. So you know, everybody wants a piece
of the And like I said, when you start looking
at the numbers, you know, like I said about the
heritage tourism industry, and these these are big numbers. Eight
hundred million dollars a year we're at right now, we're
about to go in to top a trillion dollars for
just a few years worldwide. It's a lot of money,
(25:15):
and and and and these sites can bring in a
huge amount. It's not just the money that the site's making,
you know, it's money that that that the country is
making off of tourism and the influx of foreign dollars
into the country. So you know, there's a there's definitely
a there's definitely the you know, uh uh, a desire
(25:41):
to control the narrative on a lot of these things.
You also have to look at places when you're in
places like Turkey or something, you know, or some foreign country.
Maybe it's like it could be a Christian predominantly Christian country,
or it could be a predominantly Muslim country, and you
unearth something that completely rites rewrites the narrative. Next thing
you know, you're you're talking aboutolitical problems here within that
(26:03):
society if you start unearthing things that rewrite the narrative
on something like scripture or you know, beliefs, belief systems,
cultural belief systems within that area. And we often don't
think we look at the map in the world often
as it being very much in place, but people have
moved and migrated all over the different place and we
found that, you know, we found you know, types of
(26:27):
people in places where they're not supposed to be mummified,
things like that that we've had to really contend with.
And these have been big issues in different places like
Egypt or in China and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So let's bring it back to the Americas if you
don't mind, because that's really really interesting. What you just said,
is Mike Collins get his book. It's called Lost and
Found A Traveler's Quest for Truth.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Is it out now?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
They can go get it on Amazon anywhere right now.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's on Amazon. It's out right now. Absolutely, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So the history of the America is obviously we don't
know it. We're learning about it. We're starting to find
out more stuff. But a big argument, and I'm not
going to get political with you. I don't know if
you're if you're liberal or conservative, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We're on the same page.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Good, okay, So, but what matters to me and to
you is that we find out the actual history of
the land on which we sit. There's nothing wrong with that.
And the argument from the left constantly is that we
stole the land and we killed the people and we
committed a genocide. But we're talking about, you know, six
hundred years ago, We're not talking about twelve thousand years ago. Mike,
through your research and through your YouTube page at Wandering Wolf,
(27:27):
do you have any idea how many civilizations have lived
where we are right now? Do we have any clue? Yeah,
it didn't start five hundred years ago.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
We know that. No, No, not at all. No, so
we're talking about you know, ten thousand plus years. You know,
people have inhabited these these lands, so it's you know,
what do we That's and that's the main thing North
America is very interesting, is that we don't have these
big accepted examples of the of major societies and stuff
(27:59):
like we do with these other megalithic structures. If we're
just talking about these these types of findings, right, which
is why I you know, we have these the malculture.
We do have plenty of discoveries. We've discovered footprints and
I think it's white sands at date back tens of
thousands of years. You know, there's all sorts of stuff
that do show habitation here going back quite a long ways.
(28:19):
But we don't have these monumental structures, these megalithic type
of structures like the pyramids or Gobecley Tappy or different
things in North America. You know, all that stops basically
right there around Mexico. So what happened here, knowing that
people have existed here is that has kept us from
(28:40):
having these types of structures. Are ones that are as
similar to these other ones with the same type of
similarities found around the world, because a lot of these
ancient structures around the world and on different continents, they
show that almost identical type of construction techniques and features
and things like that that really have to make you
look at there being some kind of interconnectedness between them.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I'm just gonna ask. I mean, this goes back to
what we just talked about. I mean, was there some
form of internet, even if it's by sending carrier pigeons,
Because there's no way there should be the same structure
in Mexico that is in Egypt, that's in Turkey, that's
that's in Montana. That should not happen. And the only
way that happens is somebody saw how well that worked.
And I'd like to do one of those here. Why
(29:22):
is there a pyramid in Mexico when there are pyramids
over in Egypt? I mean, so can we uncover is
there any way And this might be a dumb question,
but is there any way to uncover the actual communication
abilities that we had twelve thousand years ago? I mean
we should be on earthing something that would have been Okay,
it happened in Egypt, which is really or another crazy question,
was that you know, well, all of the continents might
(29:44):
have been closer together before they split. I mean, who
the hell knows, because all the continents fit together if
you look at it, you know, all the land masses.
What do you think was going on? Because there's no
way somebody in Egypt and twelve thousand years ago could
possibly get a message to somebody in Mexico. Les's they
had the ability to in a communication system that where
yet to understand.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, I just think I think, first of all, we
have to just let go of that thought process that
these that people around the world weren't interconnected in some
way and trading in knowledge and all sorts of different things.
You know, we we we're now showing we we have
We're show we've discovered vegetation that it connects Easter Island
to South America, which is crazy far away. It's crazy.
(30:23):
We have tobacco showing up in Egypt, showing that there
was you know, uh, somehow tobacco made its way over
to Egypt at some point to look for for people,
for you to look at for people to look at
something like the Pyramids Go Beckley Teppee or something like that,
and think that they were capable of building that. But
they weren't capable of building a boat that could circumnavigate
(30:44):
the globe. You know, it just doesn't make sense. I
think these people. You know that there's plenty of the
there's probably plenty of examples of civilizations throughout history who
were just going all over the place exchanging knowledge and
all sorts of stuff. Now, that doesn't really explain that
the lack of things like megalithic structures in North America
when you find them everywhere else in the world, right,
(31:08):
but it does show that there's just this you know,
you know, when you look at these monuments around the
world and date a lot of them back to ten
plus thousand years, you know, if they could do that,
and with the mathematics that they were using for lining
these things up, with the with the stars and the skies,
astronomy and things like that, to think that they couldn't
build a boat and get over to America, I think
(31:30):
is kind of ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, it is kind of ridiculous. Well, I got to
tell you, man, I've learned a lot in the past
thirty minutes. I'm gonna go to your page and watch
every single thing this week, and I'm gonna bringe it
I hope everybody else does as well at Wandering Wolf.
Got to Wandering Wolf Productions dot Com to go see
what Mike does. Get his book called Lost and Found
My Brother. That was a great amount of knowledge. It's small.
It is a very small and short amount of time.
Let's do this again a weekend. I really learned a
(31:51):
lot from it up too.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I would love to thank you for having me on.
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
You're very welcome. Go and check them out again. Lost
In Found the Travelers, Quest for Truth. That's the book
Wandering Wolfproductions dot Com. That's it for Unshaken on Afraid
with Joe PAGs this time another one to drop very soon.
They found a wall in Montana bigger than a football field,
twenty five feet tall, thousands of years old, and mainstream
historians refuse to look at it. Why you're about to
find out, Let's go directly to Montana because my upbringing
said that this area where we live showed up sort
of in history about I don't know less than a
(00:20):
thousand years ago, five six, seven hundred years ago, and
it turns out it might be tens of thousands of
years old. What is in Montana that I can learn from?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, if what we are uncovering up in Montana turns
out to be of human construction, that would push dates
back for the Americas significantly. It's a site called the
Stage Wall. It is on private land owned by Chris
and Linda, who are the owners of the land up
(00:50):
there at a place called Sage Mountain Center. So this
is what appears to be a megalithic wall about two
hundred and seventy five in length, about twenty five feet high,
and it has a lot of the similarities for ancient
sites around the world, similar to places like Saksi, Woman
and Peru where you see these megalithic structures that really
(01:12):
confound people as to how these kinds of structures were built.
These are things that we don't do today, even we're
not even able to do today. So this would be
up there of the level of things like stone hinge
to pyramids, places like in Peru like Machu Picu and
sacs of woman that if this turns out to be
(01:34):
something that is man made and constructed.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Well, have we, through archaeology found the remains the bones
of people that are twelve thousand years old in the Americas?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, so we have. You know, this this site, very
interestingly is right near the Clovis sites where we have
discovered bones and things from ancient humans, right in that
area in the Montana area, So I think it's only
(02:05):
you know, it's less than fifty miles away from another site,
another ancient site there, so there's a lot of stuff
going on out there. The site itself sits on an
area called the Boulder Batholith Region, and since the discovery
of the site in the late nineties by the property owners,
you know, it's been notoriously overlooked by archaeologists or geologists
(02:25):
who just have no interest in going out there to
check this out. So weird. Yeah, whether this site ends
up being man made or not. It's certainly warrants investigation
and a closer look at which the property owners have
been funding themselves. So there is data being released. They've
just released a lot of data to the public from
(02:47):
ground penetrating radar to light are and it's produced some
interesting results at the site there.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, what's interesting do you mean? My good, it's my college.
He's a filmmaker, explorer, author Wandering Wolf Productions dot com.
Go follow them over on line and get his book
called Lost and Found. What jumps out of me? And
I've had a conversation with Graham Hancock about this. It
seems as though the modern day so called historians or
those people who are pretending to be the all knowing
when it comes to archaeology and history. They don't want
(03:17):
to know what's in Montana. They don't want to know
that civilization in the Americas could go back twelve thousand years.
They don't want to know what's being uncovered in South America,
what's happening over in Europe? Why is that? Why don't
they want to know? Because they want to be the
be all end all when it comes to information. I
don't get it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, we really have an Ivory Tower situation here where
it's like, you know, it rewrites. Rewriting history is clearly
something that's pushed back against by academics, and it's been
that way for quite a long time. So, you know,
rewriting history. We've continued to have to do that, but
(03:51):
archaeologists seemingly want to be the ones that are responsible
for doing that if there needs to be changes. You know,
we've experienced as recently with Goeck sites like go Beckley
Teppe pushing back the dates for our you know, stuff
like our theories around being hunter gatherers, and then that
(04:11):
site dating back over ten thousand years eleven thousand years
with megalithic construction. So I completely wrote, rewrote the narrative.
You know, we're still talking about Christopher Columbus coming over
and discovering the Americas when we know the vikings and stuff,
we're here way before that, and there's all sorts of
stuff in the America specifically that is often overlooked. It's
(04:33):
not like these things are unknown or archaeologists don't talk
about it or don't know about it, but the average
public consumer or person who's interested in these things aren't
typically aware of stuff like Cohokia or the mound cultures
in the America which pushed these dates far further back
(04:54):
than is typically discussed or talk about. But yeah, there's
a lot of gate keeping going on.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
When you talk about these monumental walls, these unbelievable structures.
Twelve thousand years ago, they didn't have anything. They had
nothing like what we have today. We haven't found the
remains of machinery from back then or technology from back then,
but they somehow got it done. Same thing with the Pyramids.
I have a friend who just got back from Egypt
and she interviews a guy who was convinced that laborers
(05:21):
decided to work for thirty years to take one rocket
a time go build the Pyramids. Do we have any
better idea today on what it is or that was
the technology of the day where you could have built
an incredible, you know, perfectly symmetrical wall and arena and
you know palaces that they look like that were uncovering
all over the world. Do we have any idea how
they did that, because, as you said, we probably couldn't
(05:42):
do that planet and do it today in any sort
of you know, quick timing. And I don't know that
we have the machinery today. Do we know how they
did it?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, we don't know how they did it. There's a
lot of things when without getting into speculation around certain
theories around like out there theories that typically negate the
conversation with someone like an academic, what we are seeing.
What we can say from this is that the typical
viewpoint of this linear progression of humankind that kind of
(06:10):
starts way down here and then goes way up here
doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like there
were more likely cycles of advancement through the course of
history dating bench further back than you know. The established
narrative is credit for it of cultures and societies that
(06:31):
were by far more advanced than we like to give
credit for, who are capable of doing these things and
constructing these monuments from our past that still exists today
that we can't explain.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, Mike, what, let me ask you this, then, did
they all die? Because why wouldn't that technology just get
better and better and better and better. If you go
to the exception of cell phones, which is infantile compared
to what we're talking about, but it's a gigantic bag.
You had to carry around. Then it was a block
a look like a brick, and then it was a
smaller thing, that small thing small. We just built on
the technology. If they had this incredible technology, which clearly
(07:04):
they did, unless we're gonna say aliens did it, and
I know we don't want to get into that, but
if they have this incredible technology, unless they all died,
wouldn't it be left over for their their children and
their children's children and so on? And then we would
have built upon the technology that was able to create
these incredible structures.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, absolutely, it would be that way, except that we
throughout history see these uh collapses as a civilization of cultures,
of societies, these these you know, catastrophic collapses. And I'm
not even going back into like the younger, dryest theories
and things like the you know, getting into like the
biblical flood and things like that. I'm just talking about
(07:40):
the natural ebb and flow of collapsing societies back down
to base levels. You know, we watched it with Rome.
There's plenty of of of cultures and things that have
reached these peaks and then just completely fallen apart through
internal struggle, struggles, war and all sorts of things, from
economics to all sorts of different factors that have collapsed civilizations.
(08:02):
You reach a certain level at a peak where technology
reaches a point. If everything in America or worldwide collapse
right now, how many people would know how to make
a phone. Nobody's gonna know how to make a phone
or a computer, right So this idea of being able
to just you know, having a societal collapse and then
(08:24):
pass on that knowledge people during a collapse like that,
they're worried about survival. There's no more money. You go
down to base level bartering systems just for survival. So
things like phones, computers, and things that might have even
existed in the past would not survive.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Can you imagine if they had computers and phones and
faster internet than we have today. I mean, that would
be it's mind boggling to think about. But we clearly
don't have any idea what the everyday life was of
a human being on Earth twelve thousand years ago. Do
we do? Do we have an idea like ooke up
in the morning and then did this before going to bed?
We have no clue, do we.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, if you listen to modern academics, then you know,
we were hunter gatherers Andy, and before we moved into
agrarian societies and armors and things like that. But you know, yeah, again,
the evidence for these ancient sites speaks otherwise. You know,
(09:23):
we've got a site like O Beckley Teppe with megalithic
structures dating back over ten thousand years that pushed the
entire framework of human progression back by thousands of years
and upon its discovery, and you know, those are things
that hunter gatherers weren't doing. I think anybody, you know,
(09:43):
any reasonable person can look at a site like that
and say, hey, this took a lot more to align
this with the stars, to be astronomically aligned, to be
these giant megalithic blocks and structures and things like that
have put this in place in the ways in which
they did.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's Mike Collins, the Wandering Wolf. Go to a Wandering
Wolf over on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. Get his
book called Lost Then Found, A Traveler's Quest for Truth.
I haven't traveled extensively. I did go to Italy when
I was fifteen. My grandfather, who was from Italy, would
take a bunch of us every once in a while,
and I did get to go to the coliseum. I
did get to see some of the ruins I got.
Seeing it in person is so different than seeing it
(10:21):
in a picture, even in a video, because there's something
gigantic about what they were able to achieve way back
in the day. So tell me about the first time
you went and saw something in person and what that
was inside of you that said, I really need to
go experience these things. And what blew your mind that
you were standing in front of it or in it
for the first time.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It was, yeah, super easy to reference. I started traveling
and the first ancient site that I visited, I've been
into this stuff for years. First ancient site I visited
was a site in Peru called Saxu Wuman, and standing
in front of that site and these massive megalithic stones
just immediately I just knew, immediately in that moment, this
is what I wanted to do with my life. And
(11:03):
it's been a wild ride since it's been about ten years.
I've now visited somewhere over three hundred plus ancient sites
around the world and documented them. And yeah, it was
you know what the prevailing thought at the time that
stuck with me through all these years, is if people
were capable of doing something like this that long ago,
(11:26):
what I might what might I be capable of just
doing with my life? Like you know, at the time,
there was a lot of you know, my life was
very different than and so there's been a lot of uh,
you know, work on bettering myself over the years, and
I go over that in my book. It's a real
raw look at that process throughout the years, and so
that really stuck with me. If people could do this
(11:47):
back then, supposedly primitive people back then, can I not
just do something as simple as change my life and
pursue a dream? And that's how this all started.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's Mike Collins, the Wandering Wolf. So you go to
Peru and you're blown way by it? Is the first question?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
How?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Or is the first question? I didn't know? I mean,
does all that bubble up? And you say to yourself,
I need to figure out how the hell they did this?
And the only way to do that is to go
and stand and be present at all of these sites
that I've now hearing about? Or was that the first
one that you heard about? And then you said there
must be more like this? And then you started to
expand your reach.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's very much like what you just mentioned on
your trip to Italy. There's something different between you know,
knowing about these places, seeing them, and then being there
in person. It's it's completely different. So you know, being
there and seeing it for yourself, it's it's very much
a changing experience. And what I wanted to do was
share that I love getting into the details of these
(12:41):
sites and you know, going over you know, picking and
pulling at threads through history and seeing how it might
all be connected. But what I'm really motivated by is
documenting things and sharing that with the with the world
in a way that other people might be motivated to
go have these experiences for themselves. That's really where I
focused my energy on, is documenting sites worldwide. I really
(13:04):
love getting into the lesser known sites or the harder
to reach sites, and then sharing that with the public
so they might, as I was, be motivated to go
out there, travel a little bit see something for themselves,
because I truly believe it'll change you as a person
having those experiences in real life.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's not Mike Collins The Wandering Wolf, a couple of
schools of thought. Let's rebuild what they used to have
and see the way they looked in ancient times, or
let's uncover it and show what's left and not touch
because it's sacred. Where are you on that?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, that's a tough one. Look, I'm not against archaeological reconstruction.
I just happened to feel after visiting so many sites
all around the world, what I've noticed is that there
is a process. So you know, when you go to
places like Tiataea Khan, I think the average traveler, which
is down in Mexico, just outside of Mexico City, it's
(13:58):
the massive pyramid down there that's all concrete, So so
you know, they've completely rebooted that site with poured concrete
and stone. So you know, when you go to these sites,
the average person doesn't know that.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
And as you start going as to as many sites
as I've been around the world, you start being able
to see the level of reconstruction, you start asking yourself, Okay, well,
what is the point here? Is the point here to
rebuild the site to its approximation of what it used
to be? Or are we are we now looking at
the you know, kind of the the taking advantage of
(14:34):
these sites for tourism dollars, and it.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Could be they could be reimagining them. Did they actually
know what they used to look like? Or are they
saying it probably kind of looked like this week can
make some money on it. Courage is in something that
you discover when life is easy. In fact, is revealed
when standing for your faith comes with a cost. We
all know what happened to my friend Charlie Kirk. He'd
been in my show six times. He was somebody they
texted back and forth with, and he was somebody that
(14:57):
we all learned from, somebody who really stood for what
he believe. That's what makes Charlie Kirk, American martyr such
a powerful story that I want you to make sure
you watch him, have your kids watch it too. It's
not just about politics. It's about a man whose faith
shaped every decision he made, who loved his family, invested
in the next generation, in fact, chose conviction over comfort.
(15:18):
It asks the question every Christian should consider, what am
I willing to stand for?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Really?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
In a world that constantly pressures believers that stay quiet,
Charlie's story reminds us that following Christ has always required boldness, humility,
and unwavering faith. His legacy isn't about faith. It's about
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If you're looking for a story that will challenge and
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(15:44):
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Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's the issue, and you
have to start looking at the underlying factors here. You
look heritage tourism, which is what this is, is something
around eight hundred and billion dollars a year industry right now.
It's projected to top of trillion dollars per year worldwide
by twenty thirty. Wow, So it's May and that's only growing.
(16:22):
There's no sign of this slowing down. You know, you
have people completely building careers out of this now on
YouTube and different things, similar to what I've done here
over the last ten years. So you know, going around
visiting these sites and documenting them, and I think it's
really important that people are doing that, documenting these places
before they get completely rebuilt and turned over to these
(16:43):
international corporations that start running these sites for tourism dollars,
and these places start guilding, built over and stuff. You know,
we've had a huge controversy over the last several years
with that at a site that I just mentioned, Go
Beckle Tepee over in Turkey, which I was fortunate enough
a visit on the day that they removed olive trees
that were planning on the site, and that was a
(17:04):
big point of contention for people that were saying this
needed to be removed, and archaeologists saying, oh, it was fine.
And then you know, I was able to show up
there just by happenstance on the day that they removed
those trees to help preserve that site. It just took
them forever to do that. And the other big issue
there was if you look at that site, there's massive plans.
(17:27):
This is this is probably the most right now, the
most important ancient site in the world. It's the one
that pushes these dates back significantly and has rewritten history
in such a huge way. And they're building massive steel
pylons for walkways directly into the center and the heart
of that site. And building you know, hotels and and
(17:47):
and things right outside the front of that that whole area,
and you know there's plans for just a massive level
of tourism. So you're balancing this, you know, finding the
truth about history and I'm covering that and looking for
(18:08):
secret you know, looking for the information about our past,
and then managing the tourism aspected. They did a lot
of these sites. They do need to make money to
fund the archaeological work. I get that, but there needs
to be a balance. You know, when a site like
go Beckley Teppy has only been excavated maybe somewhere between
five to ten percent for as many years as they've
(18:28):
been working on that site, but yet we're seeing them
build luxury hotels and that's just dumb. Yeah, and million
dollars walkways.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I'll give you an example that I think that will
really illustrate this to the audience, and hopefully this will
illustrated to you too. And again it's just like yesterday.
Graceland is exactly the way that it was when Elvis
was alive. I've been there several times, Big Elvis fan,
you walk in his nineteen seventy five TV is there
his record player is there. The same piano was there.
They didn't change it whatsoever. Across the street, you got
(19:00):
a bunch of hotels and a bunch of places where
you can go and stay. And I think that's what
you're laying down. Don't don't mess with go Beckley Tepee.
I mean, build the hotels a mile away or two
miles or three miles away. Let us continue our work here.
If they're building new structure to get people into it,
to see it, to collect money, they're ruining the Did
they not know they're ruining the original structure? If they
changed Graceland, I'd be mad, I'll be honest with you,
(19:21):
I'd be very upset that it's not exactly the way
it was when he died. And this is again, fifty
years ago. Why wouldn't they be at least smart enough
to say, let's just not mess with this place. We'll
go do it over there.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, I'm one hundred percent with you on that. That's
exactly where I where I rest on this issue is
is I'm not against there being tourism. You know, I
want to go to these places. I want to see
these places, but not at the expense of, you know,
damaging the site, or you know, paving over a building
(19:54):
on top of areas that might have significance later on
that we don't know about yet, right, So yeah, I
think it should be handled more carefully. And the problem
is you get these detached corporations coming in and start
running the show and they need a return. So you know,
like with go Beckley Teppy of the Doses Group, which
there is an international company come in and buy their
(20:14):
rights to manage that site and collect money for I
can't remember the exact amount, but it was. You know,
it's just a few million dollars to get rights to
run that site for twenty years and they collect and
collect the money on the on the on the on
the sites from that, so it you know, it's it
can be done both ways. If you know, profits don't
(20:39):
have to be one thousand percent per person on the
on on on the site. So absolutely, you know there's
a way to do it responsibly. And I would think
that archaeologists would be and look, there's a look. I
don't want to sit here and detegrate all archaeologists. I've
(21:00):
most archaeologists that I've talked to in person, one hundred
percent of the archaeologists that I've talked to face to
face are amazing. But what you have online is archaeologists
that are seeming to be more focused on becoming personalities themselves,
whether that's YouTubers or whatever. They have side things going on,
(21:20):
and so their interesting levels seem to just be whatever
someone like me or other people who are interested in
these topics might say. It's like they just instantly take
the opposite viewpoint, which.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Is Mike Collins. Go get his book called Lost and
Found The Travelers Quest for Truth. Go follow them on
YouTube right now. Wandering Wolf is his act over on YouTube.
Let me ask him more about Go Beckley Teppe, because
I think I know why this was so monumental. I'm
going to say it, and you can tell me how
dumb I am, but I definitely want you to expand
upon it. I think this blew out of the water
(21:52):
the supposition of how long humans have been on Earth
because of this discovery. It shows an age that goes
well than what we used to think right on.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Might expand upon that. Just tell me when was this discovered?
Why is this so important?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah? Well, you know, it's important because it pushed back
our understanding of history that linear path that I was
talking about a progression of humans. This predates everything and
shows that there was a level of sophistication building of
monuments and structures and things that we were told for
so long was not true. And often this is what
(22:30):
we're saying. You know, people like myself who have traveled
around the world looked at sites all over the place.
I may not have a degree and something related to
this field, but at what point do you need to
see enough? You know, is three hundred sites around the world,
documenting three hundred sites and seeing similarities between these things
enough to have an opinion. Yes, you know that's my opinion.
(22:53):
Ten years of research and traveling and documenting sites everywhere
around the world, you know, I think entitles me to
at least have an opinion, whether you agree with that
or not. And what we're saying here is that we
keep having things show up and shut and prove that
history is not what it has been written to be,
(23:14):
and that we should remain open minded for new discoveries
and entertaining ideas that may seem oftentimes out of the
realm of possibilities, because they do seem to keep being
proven true.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It is Mike Collins go and grab his book called
Lost and Found. And again let's go back to what
I mentioned earlier on in the interview. The establishment for
some reason doesn't want to believe they were wrong for
all these years. Why not when you're studying history, is
it about isn't it about uncovering the actual story? I mean,
who cares so far? It could go back five billion years?
If we find that out, that's cool. We should learn
(23:46):
about that. Why are they so against averse to saying,
you know what, for the past fifty years we were
wrong and we found this out. Look how right we
are now? I mean it's still them that gets the credit.
What's the difference?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's a lot of
books that will have to be rewritten.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
So what rewrite them? That's cold? Make more money on it.
I mean, I don't understand. Look, I completely look like you.
I learn a lot about my field, and I really
love being right and I love proving people wrong. But
if I've been shown the light and been shown that
what I thought for all these years was wrong, I
would say, man, I had no idea. Guess what I
(24:24):
can now tell you? The right story? I mean, if
anything it vindicates historians continuing to find more history.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of strings
attached to these types of professions when you're working in
you know, the you know, the academic setting, whether it's
colleges or whatever, right or you're working for the government
in a lot of different countries doing these excavation work.
But the money isn't it's usually coming from private funding.
(24:53):
A lot of times, a lot of these things come
with strings attached. So you know, everybody wants a piece
of the And like I said, when you start looking
at the numbers, you know, like I said about the
heritage tourism industry, and these these are big numbers. Eight
hundred million dollars a year we're at right now, we're
about to go in to top a trillion dollars for
just a few years worldwide. It's a lot of money,
(25:15):
and and and and these sites can bring in a
huge amount. It's not just the money that the site's making,
you know, it's money that that that the country is
making off of tourism and the influx of foreign dollars
into the country. So you know, there's a there's definitely
a there's definitely the you know, uh uh, a desire
(25:41):
to control the narrative on a lot of these things.
You also have to look at places when you're in
places like Turkey or something, you know, or some foreign country.
Maybe it's like it could be a Christian predominantly Christian country,
or it could be a predominantly Muslim country, and you
unearth something that completely rites rewrites the narrative. Next thing
you know, you're you're talking aboutolitical problems here within that
(26:03):
society if you start unearthing things that rewrite the narrative
on something like scripture or you know, beliefs, belief systems,
cultural belief systems within that area. And we often don't
think we look at the map in the world often
as it being very much in place, but people have
moved and migrated all over the different place and we
found that, you know, we found you know, types of
(26:27):
people in places where they're not supposed to be mummified,
things like that that we've had to really contend with.
And these have been big issues in different places like
Egypt or in China and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So let's bring it back to the Americas if you
don't mind, because that's really really interesting. What you just said,
is Mike Collins get his book. It's called Lost and
Found A Traveler's Quest for Truth.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Is it out now?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
They can go get it on Amazon anywhere right now.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's on Amazon. It's out right now. Absolutely, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So the history of the America is obviously we don't
know it. We're learning about it. We're starting to find
out more stuff. But a big argument, and I'm not
going to get political with you. I don't know if
you're if you're liberal or conservative, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We're on the same page.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Good, okay, So, but what matters to me and to
you is that we find out the actual history of
the land on which we sit. There's nothing wrong with that.
And the argument from the left constantly is that we
stole the land and we killed the people and we
committed a genocide. But we're talking about, you know, six
hundred years ago, We're not talking about twelve thousand years ago. Mike,
through your research and through your YouTube page at Wandering Wolf,
(27:27):
do you have any idea how many civilizations have lived
where we are right now? Do we have any clue? Yeah,
it didn't start five hundred years ago.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
We know that. No, No, not at all. No, so
we're talking about you know, ten thousand plus years. You know,
people have inhabited these these lands, so it's you know,
what do we That's and that's the main thing North
America is very interesting, is that we don't have these
big accepted examples of the of major societies and stuff
(27:59):
like we do with these other megalithic structures. If we're
just talking about these these types of findings, right, which
is why I you know, we have these the malculture.
We do have plenty of discoveries. We've discovered footprints and
I think it's white sands at date back tens of
thousands of years. You know, there's all sorts of stuff
that do show habitation here going back quite a long ways.
(28:19):
But we don't have these monumental structures, these megalithic type
of structures like the pyramids or Gobecley Tappy or different
things in North America. You know, all that stops basically
right there around Mexico. So what happened here, knowing that
people have existed here is that has kept us from
(28:40):
having these types of structures. Are ones that are as
similar to these other ones with the same type of
similarities found around the world, because a lot of these
ancient structures around the world and on different continents, they
show that almost identical type of construction techniques and features
and things like that that really have to make you
look at there being some kind of interconnectedness between them.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I'm just gonna ask. I mean, this goes back to
what we just talked about. I mean, was there some
form of internet, even if it's by sending carrier pigeons,
Because there's no way there should be the same structure
in Mexico that is in Egypt, that's in Turkey, that's
that's in Montana. That should not happen. And the only
way that happens is somebody saw how well that worked.
And I'd like to do one of those here. Why
(29:22):
is there a pyramid in Mexico when there are pyramids
over in Egypt? I mean, so can we uncover is
there any way And this might be a dumb question,
but is there any way to uncover the actual communication
abilities that we had twelve thousand years ago? I mean
we should be on earthing something that would have been Okay,
it happened in Egypt, which is really or another crazy question,
was that you know, well, all of the continents might
(29:44):
have been closer together before they split. I mean, who
the hell knows, because all the continents fit together if
you look at it, you know, all the land masses.
What do you think was going on? Because there's no
way somebody in Egypt and twelve thousand years ago could
possibly get a message to somebody in Mexico. Les's they
had the ability to in a communication system that where
yet to understand.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, I just think I think, first of all, we
have to just let go of that thought process that
these that people around the world weren't interconnected in some
way and trading in knowledge and all sorts of different things.
You know, we we we're now showing we we have
We're show we've discovered vegetation that it connects Easter Island
to South America, which is crazy far away. It's crazy.
(30:23):
We have tobacco showing up in Egypt, showing that there
was you know, uh, somehow tobacco made its way over
to Egypt at some point to look for for people,
for you to look at for people to look at
something like the Pyramids Go Beckley Teppee or something like that,
and think that they were capable of building that. But
they weren't capable of building a boat that could circumnavigate
(30:44):
the globe. You know, it just doesn't make sense. I
think these people. You know that there's plenty of the
there's probably plenty of examples of civilizations throughout history who
were just going all over the place exchanging knowledge and
all sorts of stuff. Now, that doesn't really explain that
the lack of things like megalithic structures in North America
when you find them everywhere else in the world, right,
(31:08):
but it does show that there's just this you know,
you know, when you look at these monuments around the
world and date a lot of them back to ten
plus thousand years, you know, if they could do that,
and with the mathematics that they were using for lining
these things up, with the with the stars and the skies,
astronomy and things like that, to think that they couldn't
build a boat and get over to America, I think
(31:30):
is kind of ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, it is kind of ridiculous. Well, I got to
tell you, man, I've learned a lot in the past
thirty minutes. I'm gonna go to your page and watch
every single thing this week, and I'm gonna bringe it
I hope everybody else does as well at Wandering Wolf.
Got to Wandering Wolf Productions dot Com to go see
what Mike does. Get his book called Lost and Found
My Brother. That was a great amount of knowledge. It's small.
It is a very small and short amount of time.
Let's do this again a weekend. I really learned a
(31:51):
lot from it up too.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I would love to thank you for having me on.
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
You're very welcome. Go and check them out again. Lost
In Found the Travelers, Quest for Truth. That's the book
Wandering Wolfproductions dot Com. That's it for Unshaken on Afraid
with Joe PAGs this time another one to drop very soon.
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