August 16, 2024 • 27 mins
Watch Tom and Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Surveillance hosted by Tom Keene and Paul SweeneyAugust 16th, 2024
Featuring:
- Katy Kaminski, AlphaSimplex Chief Research Strategist, on markets
- Michael Purves, Tallbacken Capital Advisors Founder/CEO, markets
- Oliver Chen, TD Cowen Senior retail analyst, on WMT/ULTA
- Bloomberg's Lisa Mateo with her Newspaper Headlines
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keen along
with Paul Sweeney. Join us each day for insight from
the best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. You
can also watch the show live on YouTube. Visit the
Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube to see the show weekday
mornings from seven to ten am Eastern from our global
(00:34):
headquarters in New York City. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify,
or anywhere else you listen and always I'm Bloomberg Radio,
the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App. We're going
to have a major growing up talk here. There's gonna
be a little jargon involved here, Damien Sasar and Tom
Keen and joining us Katherin Kaminski Alpha Simplex chief research
(00:56):
strategist barely describes the academic and quantitative finance abilities here, Katie,
you are trend based. I'm trend based. Dean Current is
trend based. Bruno de Pire, the giant of quant at
post dilemma, He's trend based. Was the trend shattered over
what we saw ten days ago?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yes, I have to admit it's been a really tough
environment for trend because if you look at I mean,
let me just make one point here, the fifty day
moving average for the S and P has recovered in
the last six days to be only two percent down.
I mean, we basically went from everything's going wrong back
to well, I guess it's okay. And so the world
(01:39):
is just, you know, from a trend perspective, shifted significantly,
and some of the new trends that we're seeing their week,
but they're very different.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I'm going to go to August sixth, and folks, this
involves wells, wildough, parabolics are all sorts of fancy things,
a thing called ad x DMI. Kaminski got an A
plus on the exam. I got to C minus. You
ruin the curve, Katie. I'm looking at a lot of
fancy quant technicals and what I saw is a jump condition.
(02:08):
How do you get back on trend after a jump condition?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, this is a good question because what happens when
you have such a big move is that it adjust
trend signals a lot. So you have to think a
little bit about the type of trend filter that you're using.
Some models are going to be much more like your
classic moving averages, and those really adjust aggressively when you
have that type of move But you can also use
(02:34):
other types of models that may sort of windsor eyes
or remove some of the outliers, and those may not
be as much affected. But the truth is there may
be information in this recent event that could be foreboding
for potential trends to come.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Katie, let's wins rise together. You're talking two hundred day
moving average. I'd like to focus your attention on credit spread,
specifically sovereign credit. The faults, the WOP spreads five year
fifteen of the twenty five risky issuers, their spreads are
below their two hundred day moving averages. Spreads barely moved
in the recent selloff. Talk to us about the signals
you're taking away from the credit market.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So the challenge with the credit market is not everything
falls in one particular drop. And I think what I'm
thinking about for credit is if you think about past
crisis periods or other recessionary periods, it doesn't hit all
markets at the same time. So I'm concerned that this
recent event could just be a little bit of a
warning signal that things are not necessarily going to be
(03:31):
as soft as we would have liked, and that we
could see a you know, more of a recessionary trade
in the fall if we see more weaker.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Data and we know the correlation between rising volatility and
the unwind of Carrie leverage trades. For that matter, talk
to us a little bit about what we've seen in
just the last forty eight hours. I mean, follows back
down below sixteen. I mean, Carrie is coming back. I mean,
talk to us about what you envisioned as we head
through the end of the summer, in which is still
quite a liquid.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes, I mean I think trading volumes tend to always
be low in August, and if you look at what's
happened with surprising to me, the market's acting like, well,
that happened, but we're back to normal. And I really
think that people are focused on the fact that they
think now they're going to get cuts and that's going
to get us through any potential economic weakness. So I
think it's surprising how fast market sentiment shifts and people
(04:25):
go from being terrified to you know, everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Do you think there was kindage out there? Are we
going to get reports in ninety days? I mean what
was the leverage placed that creates upset given the moves
we saw. Was there a lot of leverage out there?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I think there was. I mean, if you look at
positioning and the CFTC in the futures markets, for sure
had massive volumes on those sell off days. So I
think it's more the relative value trades that are the
bigger challenge because those tend to have a lot more leverage.
So An that's why Carrie, for example, is and the
focus I'd say that for trend. I mean, it was difficult,
(05:05):
but you know, the leverage.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Wasn't that hot?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Damien. On a side note here, I'm having real trouble
with the resurgence of option writing is a free lunch? Ah, Yes,
now it's killing me. Well look, I'm doing everything I
can on air not to tear it to shreds.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well, and I'm doing everything i can to avoid the
carry trade. But you know, Katie, in this case, I
really can't because real yield differentials are higher in thirty
of the thorty. You know, major developed and merging market
economies over the last year, and you've got countries like Brazil, Mexico,
Indonesia and India which still have you know, three percent
you know, real yields to your real yields after I
mean that's after inflation. I mean, come on, I mean,
(05:41):
like rate differentials are still wide. Investors are still going
to be attracted to the carry trade, especially when you've
got real yields in Japan negative two and a half
percent still, So talk to us a little bit about
you know, what you're seeing in the markets. Can you
see people putting leverage positions back on as we get
into the end of this year.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I mean, I think you will see that. I definitely
think that that people got spooked by what happened. But
you know, as you noted, there's just so much divergence
across the market, so there's opportunity to be had. And
when there's that type of dislocation, you know, it generates interest.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
What does the real yield technicals tell you?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, right now we're looking at fixed income. The biggest
thing that I would say is that we are seeing
very very strong technical signals and fixed income. It's the
one asset class that made sort of a seismic shift
this summer. Been short fixed income for so long, and
now there seems to be a steady view that rates
are going down, so I think that's something.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, for your mortals, Katie, what you're basically saying is
your technicals are price up, yield lower.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay, Katie Kimiski, I think we'll leave it thick. Michael
Purvis from Tall Back and joins Us, I got eight
ways to go here, Michael Purvis, Are we back on trend?
Michael Purverse, are we back? I'm good trend?
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Yeah, Like if we could just delete, like, you know,
six days from a lot of charts, you know. Yeah,
ask yourself the question if we didn't have that big
spike in that and that vicious sell off earlier this month. Tom,
you know what's really different right about the economy? What's
different about uh, the interest rate trajectory or for the
(07:31):
matter of corporate earnings and whether you want to buy
or sell the stock market right now? I think we're
we haven't really learned too much from that BIX spike
other than what how much market structure, liquidity and sort
of you know, trade leverage, and there's various facets of
the trade leverage discussion are embedded in there. So yeah,
I mean, I it hasn't changed my thinking that we
(07:53):
want to be bullish equities that I'm the big tack
will continue to lead the way higher, and I think
we're you know, I never understood why fifty BIPs was
was so sort of viciously embraced by by the by
the rates markets because we had a cool job sprint
(08:14):
a few weeks.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Ago, Michael, the unwind of the carry trade, for that matter,
the unwind of leverage trades. Yet just three days ago,
I'm reading your note on precious metals here and you're
talking about silver being a leverage play on gold. So
do you think that, you know, in a risk off environment,
one where you want to get more defensive, silver is
going to play out for you or is that more
of a play for risk on investors.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Well, that's a great question, and it's a little bit
different because to me it's leverage. It's leverage to the
gold price, right, And so the question is is to
really answer your question, is gold going to do okay
in a risk on environment? Because what for silver to
really accelerate? You really need gold to have a real rally,
not just a quick flip, right, You need something substantial.
(08:56):
I do think it feels like something is building here
within the gold complex, gold, you know, being sort of
the foundation of that, and then silver being a levered
play on that. So I don't I think if gold
can rally, that's really the question. And I think if
gold can really rally, then silver will will have outsize returns.
If gold just moves up a bit, and then you're right,
(09:18):
then silver will be vulnerable to to the you know,
whatever risk off type dynamics we get there. It has
been an underappreciated asset within the gold complex, and I
think there's a lot of catch up to happen there.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Can I ask a dumb question purpose I'll know this
and Damien you'll know this. I look at silver is
like the third floor Tiffany. But the answer is silver
is solar, right, It's like use of silver and solar.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of sort of new energy
or sort of new technology demands for silver. It comes
from not just solar tom but water purification, a wide
range of electronics, a lot of battery and electric vehicles,
you know, employee silver in there. So there are you know,
(10:10):
real industrial applications that are new. And of course there's
the third four of Tiffany demand a part of it
as well.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Michael, I mean really for me, I mean what we're
talking about here, and I want to bring it back gold, silver,
precious metals. They're really a defensive asset and a risk
off environment, or one would have you believe. Yet, you know,
look at where and the correlation to US real yields
remains very very strong, right, So when I think of
real yield differentials, I think of gold as a hedge
against that. And so I'm looking now at US real
(10:36):
yields at one point seven seven percent, really belows of
the cycle. I mean, just how much lower in the
US real yield can we go? Is that going to
give a boost to gold, which is right now trading
near all time highs.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
You know, one thing I would push back on New
Damien on that is that you're right. Normally you see
a pretty clear correlation between real interest rates in the
United States and gold, and or real rate differential between
the US and places like Japan for example. They're there.
But over the last year and a half we've seen
(11:07):
gold push higher despite higher real interest rates here and
despite a strong dollar. So what's going on? I think
what's really going on is what's is that there's a
lot of central banks, notably in Asia China in particular,
that have been sort of buying the dip. And if
you look at the gold rally, it's it's put a
pretty impressive rally over the last year and a half.
(11:29):
That has been a that has been a very low
volatility rally. Typically, when you get a sort of what
I would call a Wall Street gold rally, you see
a lot of excitement and the stuff flies up and
the gold balls fly up. You haven't seen that. And
if it's a central bank type of exercise where they're
where they're buying dips but they're not buying at the
(11:50):
at the very tippy top, that's sort of inherently a
low that sort of crushes ball in that asset class.
So I think there's that happening. But here we are
looking at an election form on from now where both
sides are basically endorsing a some version of a loose
fiscal policy. You haven't seen anything about fiscal tightness from
(12:11):
either side. Here. It's all about, you know, it's really
about implementation of a fiscal stimulus. That's what the debate is.
And so I think the world's looking at that and saying, look,
you know, the deficits are high, I'm going to own gold,
and Damian. When I look at the gold chart, I'm
looking at something that looks like it's going to break
higher here, So I think, I think gold it's really
(12:33):
about some of these sort of longer term friends, and
if it does break higher, then you'll probably see some
Wall Street a Wall Street rally follow one.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You mentioned Asian Michael Purvis, and just very quickly here
you had an arch call on a d x Y.
I looked at the Bloomberg Dollar Index, which has weighted
much more to em into China, and I'm sorry, there's
a resilient dollar strength still in place. What do you
need to see, say, finally the dollar's broken?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Well, you know, like, are you saying win the dx
Y for example, or.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I'll let you, I'll let you pick the Okay,
but but but but I think what, yeah, yeah, I
mean the dollar broken.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
You know, they get sort of into existential questions about
just you know, with the reserve status of the reserve
currency and so forth. I don't think, you know, if
I'm bullish gold and think it's going to go to
you know, pick a number twenty seven hundred twenty eight
hundred later this year into twenty five. That doesn't mean
the dollar is apparently broken. That does mean people want
to sort of build up, you know, a position of
(13:41):
golden maybe hold onto that for some time down the road. There,
you know, is the dollar going to break because Europe
is suddenly or get really weaker because Europe is going
to suddenly accelerate and economic growth and the central bank
there is going to adopt, you know, a much more
hawkish policy. I mean, I don't really sort of that,
So I think, to me, like the dollar breaking, it's
(14:04):
got to come down to let's talk about dollar weekening.
It's got to come down to the rest of the
world starting to do a lot economically with a more
overtly hawkish posture from their central banks, while the US
economy starts falling apart, and the that doesn't you know,
sort of emergency cuts.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Michael, thank you for the brief. Michael Purvis catch Oliver
Chen is expert at this. He's the one guy I know,
among many people in retail I to figure out what
(14:45):
we want to buy, what we need to buy, and
what we have to have. Oliver Chen is a TD
Cowen and joined us right now Oliver. I think the
malarkey about China is just that the Chinese, is the
Wall Street Journal wrote up, are not dumb. They're going
to Japan, they're doing a currency flip, and they're saving
on luxury. Is luxury not as gloomy as the gloom
(15:09):
because China is doing terrible.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well. Luxury is pretty mixed now, right Tom, in line
with what you're saying. China we're really watching just due
to the housing issues and valuation there. But you are right,
the Chinese are traveling with the weaker yin and that's
happening in Japan is seeing very strong numbers. Our main
idea here is LVMH. We love Louis Vatan still, but
(15:33):
we're cautious. We're cautiously optimistic in what we're seeing in
these trends, and the trends have slowed unfortunately, Well, the.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Trends are slowed. Do they clear out? Is there a
shumpertarian creative destruction where you know, luxury A takes over
luxury B. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I think consolidation will continue to be a theme. However,
everybody's watching the case with Michael Core's and tapestry and
the ft. See that's something to pay attention to, but
consolidation the big getting bigger. You know, we're seeing deals
also with retailers such as Neiman Marcus and Sacks, and
that's part of what's happening. That's part of why we
(16:11):
do like LVMH. They spend nine to ten billion dollars
in advertising and promotion those power brands in Dior, Louis
Vaton as well as Tiffany. Competing against that scale is
certainly very difficult, and the luxury industry already is very
concentrated relative to others.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Oliver, I'd love to ask you about Kith Grayson and
Peter Mallar, but I really need to know what was
your primary takeaway from yesterday's US retail sales report.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, we're excited about a better than feared consumer. The
consumer still continues to be choiceful and considered and also
look for value hacking opportunities, trading up, trading down. But
we've been very bullish on Walmart. Walmart's our top idea,
and Walmart foremost offers every day low prices, a focus
(17:03):
on value in addition to being a tech platform and
a retail ecosystem, so it offers the best of both worlds.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Well, talk to us about Walmart for that matter, talk
to us about consumer discretionary within the broader context of
the S and P. I think it's one of the
underperformers this year. I think it's only up three and
a half percent year to date. Obviously Amazon has a
lot to do with that. But you know, talk to
us a little bit about what you're seeing in terms
of consumption here in the US.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, we are in the midst of a consumer discretionary recession.
So those trends have been very tough. What's been a
brighter spot at Walmart is general merchandise was flat. That
had previously been negative for about nine quarters, So that's
something we're watching. The consumer is very much impacted by
inflation and feeling mixed in terms of consumer confidence. There
(17:52):
are some brighter spots. Unemployment it's rising, but it's at
a low ish level at four point three percent. There's
still dollars of savings on the sidelines. But overall, I
think this choppy consumer behavior will continue, and consumers are
looking for value.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You and I disagreed on this. Oliver Chen in five years,
where are the department stores? I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, it's we'll see what's happening. Our idea here is Coles,
but these department stores generated a lot of cash flow.
There's a lot of work that needs to be done.
Macy's is working on its private label. It's also closing
stores and working on small format. So we're gonna see
change and innovation and department stores. But overall, our top
(18:39):
ideas are Costco, Walmart, Aulta.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Damien Coles ten year track record negative five percent per year.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
You know tem yesterday I was at the Westchester in
White Plains, the Westchester Mall. It was dead. And I'll
tell you this. A lot of the stores they are
like Alo and Lululemon. I mean, you're not getting a
lot of food traffic there and quite for that matter, Oliver,
let me ask you this. A lot of those stores
are like, I don't know, closed down or coming soon,
you know what I mean. So, I mean, do you
really still see foot traffic at malls in the suburbs.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Well, foot traffic and traffic has been sluggish to negative,
So something we're watching. People are struggling to get slightly
positive traffic. So you really have to work on conversion
and transactions. That's part of what's happening. It's needs versus wants,
and consumers are really focused on needs and food and
costco and great value. They also still love beauty. Beauty
(19:31):
is a great category of essentials, so you have to
be very selective. We also have a younger customer problem
at department stores, where department stores really need to broadcast
and be appealing to gen Z and beyond. So I
think it just depends. Athletic leisure is a long term trend,
comfort stretch, anti stink. You know, it's all very conducive
(19:54):
to the future, but there's a lot of dynamicism in
the sector at large, to.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Be clear, Oliver Chen into the autumn into twenty twenty five,
Walmart's your single best idea.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, Walmart's our top idea this year, and we continue
to be excited. I think artificial intelligence right, the marketplace model,
digital advertising plus calliefower, then cross Pizza. You know, there's
a lot happening.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I got to ask, how's ultra lux doing across the nation.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
We're excited about things you like like Petech, Philippe and Rolex.
Tiffany has a great a great piece with Tiffany Locke.
And then within beauty, what's happening a lot is ultra
high end fragrances. Fragrances is a big idea, and we
like code be.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Afraid to ask what is the margin on quote unquote
ultra high end fragrances wants to know, Well.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
The cost that gets sold is very modest, like under
so the margins, just like watches, can be exceptional like
eighty percent plus. But it's all about emotions and the innovation.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh really, thank you. We'll quote you on that, Oliver Chen.
It's all about emotions. He's a Toronto dominion and writing
a beautiful work across all of this life. You did
(21:22):
you look at the front pages of Lisa Matteo hour
Lisa Friday. What do you got?
Speaker 6 (21:28):
We're starting off with a scandal in the world of
elite high school math. So this will interest you, Tom.
The American Mathematics competition, you know about it, Students spend
years preparing for it, attracts attention top colleges, finance industry recruiters,
been around for seventy four years. But the Wall Street
Journal is saying there's been online leaks of the test
and it's gotten out. They were available online hours days
(21:52):
before students sat down for the test. Some were free,
some were had a charge of like a few hundred dollars.
But kids about it. The league on TikTok, parents, math coaches,
they're all up in arms. They want the content you know,
administrator to do something, and they did. You know, they
did disqualify some students. But it just goes to show
you it's getting this out there, this.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Close to this theme in America of the dumbing of America.
A major shot out Jeff Sacks of Columbia, way out
front with a discussion of the dumbing down of America,
and it forgets Damien Sasauer an upper death stile. They're
doing math in high school, Damien, you and I dreamed
of while you're in college.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Well, you know the type of companies that support the AMC,
the competition Citadel, Hudson River Trading, big high frequency trading firms,
and hedge funds who are obviously quantitative and focus.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Isn't that right, Lisa, Yeah, No, most definitely. And they
do because these are the top of the top. I mean,
they go to the math math Olympiads, they go internationally
to compete with this.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
This is the time a guest of ours honored to
have way Leon from Blackrock. She won not one year
but two year, really the Chinese equivalent, really a ward
in China. You know that was their ticket to Cambridge.
I believe it was. But but what I would emphasize, folks,
is this delusion of the dumbing of America completely ignores
(23:12):
in upper deactyle. That's just killing it.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Well, list, I'll tell you one thing Cambridge probably doesn't
have so already houses with blow dry bars and crystal chandeliers.
Isn't that right?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And we're ahead of that in Miami.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
It is happening.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Blow dry bars.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
You you sit down, that's what it is, and they
blow dry your hair. These are big time sorority houses,
multimillion dollar makeovers, crystal chandeliers, Okay, craft rooms so they
can make their banners, dining hall, study rooms, of video conferencing.
I mean we're talking mega mansions.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Fifteen perhaps, I mean incredible.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Wait are we talking Try Delt or Kyomega.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
Delta Zeta and try Dell, Yes, try Delt.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Why did I know that you have no idea my history?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh wanted to six or seven good mornings.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
But the secret whatever stays at the sinking boulder cover.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
What the that's aflying Gumbo delt try Delts fifteen million
dollar renovation. University of Arkansas, that's what they have there.
University of Alabama, that's Delta's eight to seventeen million dollars
forty thousand square feet. But the thing is they need
to attract members, right. You look at the Wall Street
Journal article, whose pictures are amazing of some of these places.
(24:26):
I mean, these girls are all over social media, filming,
you know, everything to try and get more people. What
I didn't realize is that they start recruiting them right
out of high school.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
It's so different, and this goes to the polarity into
this academic season of in England, in France, across continental Europe,
they're saying, we don't do that.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
What I'm wondering what your sorority views are now as
a parent at University of Alabama that your daughter's going
to try it. I mean, I'm just curious because you know,
I'm not quite there yet, but I imagine at some
point I will be so yes.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
And that's the one thing the article does not say.
I kept looking, I'm like, well, how much does it
cost for kid to go there?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
But it does not costing the kids this year, it's
costing the parents next year.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
His conversation was Kapa kapa, gamma free kk gene.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Next space travel, that's we're going to SpaceX are going
to launch a methane detecting satellite. It's going to track
those super polluters. So it's part of a nonprofit Carbon Mapper.
It's the Tanneger one satellite. So it's about the size
of a mini fridge and basically it goes off and
it'll look at companies like oil and gas, wells, livestock operations.
(25:28):
You've heard around the This is happening today. Full disclosure
though Carbon Mapper Coalition. It has received funding from Bloomberg philanthropies.
But it's it's happening today and they're going to make
that data available in the coming months and it's really
going to show where those big movers are.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Like China, and do we need a new satellite to
tell us that China is an old.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
We have ja Javier Bloss, thank you so much. Really
on a tight schedule. Javi Bloss from London yesterday. I'm
coal and it's it's just the partition between China and
India and oecd on coal alone is just absolutely stunning.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Next and the food value wars, I will end you
with this. They are heating up again subway getting into
the competition. Okay, so if you like your sandwiches. This
is a source from the New York Post.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
They're saying that.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
They're going to put out this promotion. Okay, remember the
five dollars hot hot foot long, Well that's long gone.
Inflation has happened, so now it's six dollars and ninety
nine cents. So that's what they want to do. Oh
good price for a foot long, considering that you know
some of them are like ten dollars. So they're gonna
make it starting August twenty six. You can get the
foot long. And it's not just going to be one
(26:38):
like how they did a lot of times. It's going
to be a different one, you know, for different weeks
and for different days.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
And this is worldwide, across the whole country, not just
the New York.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
They tried it out in La they made it seven
dollars in ninety nine cents. That was little two is
still too pricey, so they're dropping it a buck. They're
making it six dollars.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
This is a Bloomberg surveillance podcast, bringing you the best
in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. You can also
watch the show live on YouTube. Visit the Bloomberg Podcast
channel on YouTube to see the show weekday mornings from
seven to ten am Eastern from our global headquarters in
New York City. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify,
(27:18):
or anywhere else you listen, and always on Bloomberg Radio,
the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keen along
with Paul Sweeney. Join us each day for insight from
the best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. You
can also watch the show live on YouTube. Visit the
Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube to see the show weekday
mornings from seven to ten am Eastern from our global
(00:34):
headquarters in New York City. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify,
or anywhere else you listen and always I'm Bloomberg Radio,
the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App. We're going
to have a major growing up talk here. There's gonna
be a little jargon involved here, Damien Sasar and Tom
Keen and joining us Katherin Kaminski Alpha Simplex chief research
(00:56):
strategist barely describes the academic and quantitative finance abilities here, Katie,
you are trend based. I'm trend based. Dean Current is
trend based. Bruno de Pire, the giant of quant at
post dilemma, He's trend based. Was the trend shattered over
what we saw ten days ago?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yes, I have to admit it's been a really tough
environment for trend because if you look at I mean,
let me just make one point here, the fifty day
moving average for the S and P has recovered in
the last six days to be only two percent down.
I mean, we basically went from everything's going wrong back
to well, I guess it's okay. And so the world
(01:39):
is just, you know, from a trend perspective, shifted significantly,
and some of the new trends that we're seeing their week,
but they're very different.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I'm going to go to August sixth, and folks, this
involves wells, wildough, parabolics are all sorts of fancy things,
a thing called ad x DMI. Kaminski got an A
plus on the exam. I got to C minus. You
ruin the curve, Katie. I'm looking at a lot of
fancy quant technicals and what I saw is a jump condition.
(02:08):
How do you get back on trend after a jump condition?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, this is a good question because what happens when
you have such a big move is that it adjust
trend signals a lot. So you have to think a
little bit about the type of trend filter that you're using.
Some models are going to be much more like your
classic moving averages, and those really adjust aggressively when you
have that type of move But you can also use
(02:34):
other types of models that may sort of windsor eyes
or remove some of the outliers, and those may not
be as much affected. But the truth is there may
be information in this recent event that could be foreboding
for potential trends to come.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Katie, let's wins rise together. You're talking two hundred day
moving average. I'd like to focus your attention on credit spread,
specifically sovereign credit. The faults, the WOP spreads five year
fifteen of the twenty five risky issuers, their spreads are
below their two hundred day moving averages. Spreads barely moved
in the recent selloff. Talk to us about the signals
you're taking away from the credit market.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So the challenge with the credit market is not everything
falls in one particular drop. And I think what I'm
thinking about for credit is if you think about past
crisis periods or other recessionary periods, it doesn't hit all
markets at the same time. So I'm concerned that this
recent event could just be a little bit of a
warning signal that things are not necessarily going to be
(03:31):
as soft as we would have liked, and that we
could see a you know, more of a recessionary trade
in the fall if we see more weaker.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Data and we know the correlation between rising volatility and
the unwind of Carrie leverage trades. For that matter, talk
to us a little bit about what we've seen in
just the last forty eight hours. I mean, follows back
down below sixteen. I mean, Carrie is coming back. I mean,
talk to us about what you envisioned as we head
through the end of the summer, in which is still
quite a liquid.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes, I mean I think trading volumes tend to always
be low in August, and if you look at what's
happened with surprising to me, the market's acting like, well,
that happened, but we're back to normal. And I really
think that people are focused on the fact that they
think now they're going to get cuts and that's going
to get us through any potential economic weakness. So I
think it's surprising how fast market sentiment shifts and people
(04:25):
go from being terrified to you know, everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Do you think there was kindage out there? Are we
going to get reports in ninety days? I mean what
was the leverage placed that creates upset given the moves
we saw. Was there a lot of leverage out there?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I think there was. I mean, if you look at
positioning and the CFTC in the futures markets, for sure
had massive volumes on those sell off days. So I
think it's more the relative value trades that are the
bigger challenge because those tend to have a lot more leverage.
So An that's why Carrie, for example, is and the
focus I'd say that for trend. I mean, it was difficult,
(05:05):
but you know, the leverage.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Wasn't that hot?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Damien. On a side note here, I'm having real trouble
with the resurgence of option writing is a free lunch? Ah, Yes,
now it's killing me. Well look, I'm doing everything I
can on air not to tear it to shreds.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well, and I'm doing everything i can to avoid the
carry trade. But you know, Katie, in this case, I
really can't because real yield differentials are higher in thirty
of the thorty. You know, major developed and merging market
economies over the last year, and you've got countries like Brazil, Mexico,
Indonesia and India which still have you know, three percent
you know, real yields to your real yields after I
mean that's after inflation. I mean, come on, I mean,
(05:41):
like rate differentials are still wide. Investors are still going
to be attracted to the carry trade, especially when you've
got real yields in Japan negative two and a half
percent still, So talk to us a little bit about
you know, what you're seeing in the markets. Can you
see people putting leverage positions back on as we get
into the end of this year.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I mean, I think you will see that. I definitely
think that that people got spooked by what happened. But
you know, as you noted, there's just so much divergence
across the market, so there's opportunity to be had. And
when there's that type of dislocation, you know, it generates interest.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
What does the real yield technicals tell you?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, right now we're looking at fixed income. The biggest
thing that I would say is that we are seeing
very very strong technical signals and fixed income. It's the
one asset class that made sort of a seismic shift
this summer. Been short fixed income for so long, and
now there seems to be a steady view that rates
are going down, so I think that's something.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, for your mortals, Katie, what you're basically saying is
your technicals are price up, yield lower.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay, Katie Kimiski, I think we'll leave it thick. Michael
Purvis from Tall Back and joins Us, I got eight
ways to go here, Michael Purvis, Are we back on trend?
Michael Purverse, are we back? I'm good trend?
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Yeah, Like if we could just delete, like, you know,
six days from a lot of charts, you know. Yeah,
ask yourself the question if we didn't have that big
spike in that and that vicious sell off earlier this month. Tom,
you know what's really different right about the economy? What's
different about uh, the interest rate trajectory or for the
(07:31):
matter of corporate earnings and whether you want to buy
or sell the stock market right now? I think we're
we haven't really learned too much from that BIX spike
other than what how much market structure, liquidity and sort
of you know, trade leverage, and there's various facets of
the trade leverage discussion are embedded in there. So yeah,
I mean, I it hasn't changed my thinking that we
(07:53):
want to be bullish equities that I'm the big tack
will continue to lead the way higher, and I think
we're you know, I never understood why fifty BIPs was
was so sort of viciously embraced by by the by
the rates markets because we had a cool job sprint
(08:14):
a few weeks.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Ago, Michael, the unwind of the carry trade, for that matter,
the unwind of leverage trades. Yet just three days ago,
I'm reading your note on precious metals here and you're
talking about silver being a leverage play on gold. So
do you think that, you know, in a risk off environment,
one where you want to get more defensive, silver is
going to play out for you or is that more
of a play for risk on investors.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Well, that's a great question, and it's a little bit
different because to me it's leverage. It's leverage to the
gold price, right, And so the question is is to
really answer your question, is gold going to do okay
in a risk on environment? Because what for silver to
really accelerate? You really need gold to have a real rally,
not just a quick flip, right, You need something substantial.
(08:56):
I do think it feels like something is building here
within the gold complex, gold, you know, being sort of
the foundation of that, and then silver being a levered
play on that. So I don't I think if gold
can rally, that's really the question. And I think if
gold can really rally, then silver will will have outsize returns.
If gold just moves up a bit, and then you're right,
(09:18):
then silver will be vulnerable to to the you know,
whatever risk off type dynamics we get there. It has
been an underappreciated asset within the gold complex, and I
think there's a lot of catch up to happen there.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Can I ask a dumb question purpose I'll know this
and Damien you'll know this. I look at silver is
like the third floor Tiffany. But the answer is silver
is solar, right, It's like use of silver and solar.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of sort of new energy
or sort of new technology demands for silver. It comes
from not just solar tom but water purification, a wide
range of electronics, a lot of battery and electric vehicles,
you know, employee silver in there. So there are you know,
(10:10):
real industrial applications that are new. And of course there's
the third four of Tiffany demand a part of it
as well.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Michael, I mean really for me, I mean what we're
talking about here, and I want to bring it back gold, silver,
precious metals. They're really a defensive asset and a risk
off environment, or one would have you believe. Yet, you know,
look at where and the correlation to US real yields
remains very very strong, right, So when I think of
real yield differentials, I think of gold as a hedge
against that. And so I'm looking now at US real
(10:36):
yields at one point seven seven percent, really belows of
the cycle. I mean, just how much lower in the
US real yield can we go? Is that going to
give a boost to gold, which is right now trading
near all time highs.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
You know, one thing I would push back on New
Damien on that is that you're right. Normally you see
a pretty clear correlation between real interest rates in the
United States and gold, and or real rate differential between
the US and places like Japan for example. They're there.
But over the last year and a half we've seen
(11:07):
gold push higher despite higher real interest rates here and
despite a strong dollar. So what's going on? I think
what's really going on is what's is that there's a
lot of central banks, notably in Asia China in particular,
that have been sort of buying the dip. And if
you look at the gold rally, it's it's put a
pretty impressive rally over the last year and a half.
(11:29):
That has been a that has been a very low
volatility rally. Typically, when you get a sort of what
I would call a Wall Street gold rally, you see
a lot of excitement and the stuff flies up and
the gold balls fly up. You haven't seen that. And
if it's a central bank type of exercise where they're
where they're buying dips but they're not buying at the
(11:50):
at the very tippy top, that's sort of inherently a
low that sort of crushes ball in that asset class.
So I think there's that happening. But here we are
looking at an election form on from now where both
sides are basically endorsing a some version of a loose
fiscal policy. You haven't seen anything about fiscal tightness from
(12:11):
either side. Here. It's all about, you know, it's really
about implementation of a fiscal stimulus. That's what the debate is.
And so I think the world's looking at that and saying, look,
you know, the deficits are high, I'm going to own gold,
and Damian. When I look at the gold chart, I'm
looking at something that looks like it's going to break
higher here, So I think, I think gold it's really
(12:33):
about some of these sort of longer term friends, and
if it does break higher, then you'll probably see some
Wall Street a Wall Street rally follow one.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You mentioned Asian Michael Purvis, and just very quickly here
you had an arch call on a d x Y.
I looked at the Bloomberg Dollar Index, which has weighted
much more to em into China, and I'm sorry, there's
a resilient dollar strength still in place. What do you
need to see, say, finally the dollar's broken?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Well, you know, like, are you saying win the dx
Y for example, or.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I'll let you, I'll let you pick the Okay,
but but but but I think what, yeah, yeah, I
mean the dollar broken.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
You know, they get sort of into existential questions about
just you know, with the reserve status of the reserve
currency and so forth. I don't think, you know, if
I'm bullish gold and think it's going to go to
you know, pick a number twenty seven hundred twenty eight
hundred later this year into twenty five. That doesn't mean
the dollar is apparently broken. That does mean people want
to sort of build up, you know, a position of
(13:41):
golden maybe hold onto that for some time down the road. There,
you know, is the dollar going to break because Europe
is suddenly or get really weaker because Europe is going
to suddenly accelerate and economic growth and the central bank
there is going to adopt, you know, a much more
hawkish policy. I mean, I don't really sort of that,
So I think, to me, like the dollar breaking, it's
(14:04):
got to come down to let's talk about dollar weekening.
It's got to come down to the rest of the
world starting to do a lot economically with a more
overtly hawkish posture from their central banks, while the US
economy starts falling apart, and the that doesn't you know,
sort of emergency cuts.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Michael, thank you for the brief. Michael Purvis catch Oliver
Chen is expert at this. He's the one guy I know,
among many people in retail I to figure out what
(14:45):
we want to buy, what we need to buy, and
what we have to have. Oliver Chen is a TD
Cowen and joined us right now Oliver. I think the
malarkey about China is just that the Chinese, is the
Wall Street Journal wrote up, are not dumb. They're going
to Japan, they're doing a currency flip, and they're saving
on luxury. Is luxury not as gloomy as the gloom
(15:09):
because China is doing terrible.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well. Luxury is pretty mixed now, right Tom, in line
with what you're saying. China we're really watching just due
to the housing issues and valuation there. But you are right,
the Chinese are traveling with the weaker yin and that's
happening in Japan is seeing very strong numbers. Our main
idea here is LVMH. We love Louis Vatan still, but
(15:33):
we're cautious. We're cautiously optimistic in what we're seeing in
these trends, and the trends have slowed unfortunately, Well, the.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Trends are slowed. Do they clear out? Is there a
shumpertarian creative destruction where you know, luxury A takes over
luxury B. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I think consolidation will continue to be a theme. However,
everybody's watching the case with Michael Core's and tapestry and
the ft. See that's something to pay attention to, but
consolidation the big getting bigger. You know, we're seeing deals
also with retailers such as Neiman Marcus and Sacks, and
that's part of what's happening. That's part of why we
(16:11):
do like LVMH. They spend nine to ten billion dollars
in advertising and promotion those power brands in Dior, Louis
Vaton as well as Tiffany. Competing against that scale is
certainly very difficult, and the luxury industry already is very
concentrated relative to others.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Oliver, I'd love to ask you about Kith Grayson and
Peter Mallar, but I really need to know what was
your primary takeaway from yesterday's US retail sales report.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, we're excited about a better than feared consumer. The
consumer still continues to be choiceful and considered and also
look for value hacking opportunities, trading up, trading down. But
we've been very bullish on Walmart. Walmart's our top idea,
and Walmart foremost offers every day low prices, a focus
(17:03):
on value in addition to being a tech platform and
a retail ecosystem, so it offers the best of both worlds.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Well, talk to us about Walmart for that matter, talk
to us about consumer discretionary within the broader context of
the S and P. I think it's one of the
underperformers this year. I think it's only up three and
a half percent year to date. Obviously Amazon has a
lot to do with that. But you know, talk to
us a little bit about what you're seeing in terms
of consumption here in the US.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, we are in the midst of a consumer discretionary recession.
So those trends have been very tough. What's been a
brighter spot at Walmart is general merchandise was flat. That
had previously been negative for about nine quarters, So that's
something we're watching. The consumer is very much impacted by
inflation and feeling mixed in terms of consumer confidence. There
(17:52):
are some brighter spots. Unemployment it's rising, but it's at
a low ish level at four point three percent. There's
still dollars of savings on the sidelines. But overall, I
think this choppy consumer behavior will continue, and consumers are
looking for value.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You and I disagreed on this. Oliver Chen in five years,
where are the department stores? I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, it's we'll see what's happening. Our idea here is Coles,
but these department stores generated a lot of cash flow.
There's a lot of work that needs to be done.
Macy's is working on its private label. It's also closing
stores and working on small format. So we're gonna see
change and innovation and department stores. But overall, our top
(18:39):
ideas are Costco, Walmart, Aulta.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Damien Coles ten year track record negative five percent per year.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
You know tem yesterday I was at the Westchester in
White Plains, the Westchester Mall. It was dead. And I'll
tell you this. A lot of the stores they are
like Alo and Lululemon. I mean, you're not getting a
lot of food traffic there and quite for that matter, Oliver,
let me ask you this. A lot of those stores
are like, I don't know, closed down or coming soon,
you know what I mean. So, I mean, do you
really still see foot traffic at malls in the suburbs.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Well, foot traffic and traffic has been sluggish to negative,
So something we're watching. People are struggling to get slightly
positive traffic. So you really have to work on conversion
and transactions. That's part of what's happening. It's needs versus wants,
and consumers are really focused on needs and food and
costco and great value. They also still love beauty. Beauty
(19:31):
is a great category of essentials, so you have to
be very selective. We also have a younger customer problem
at department stores, where department stores really need to broadcast
and be appealing to gen Z and beyond. So I
think it just depends. Athletic leisure is a long term trend,
comfort stretch, anti stink. You know, it's all very conducive
(19:54):
to the future, but there's a lot of dynamicism in
the sector at large, to.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Be clear, Oliver Chen into the autumn into twenty twenty five,
Walmart's your single best idea.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, Walmart's our top idea this year, and we continue
to be excited. I think artificial intelligence right, the marketplace model,
digital advertising plus calliefower, then cross Pizza. You know, there's
a lot happening.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I got to ask, how's ultra lux doing across the nation.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
We're excited about things you like like Petech, Philippe and Rolex.
Tiffany has a great a great piece with Tiffany Locke.
And then within beauty, what's happening a lot is ultra
high end fragrances. Fragrances is a big idea, and we
like code be.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Afraid to ask what is the margin on quote unquote
ultra high end fragrances wants to know, Well.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
The cost that gets sold is very modest, like under
so the margins, just like watches, can be exceptional like
eighty percent plus. But it's all about emotions and the innovation.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh really, thank you. We'll quote you on that, Oliver Chen.
It's all about emotions. He's a Toronto dominion and writing
a beautiful work across all of this life. You did
(21:22):
you look at the front pages of Lisa Matteo hour
Lisa Friday. What do you got?
Speaker 6 (21:28):
We're starting off with a scandal in the world of
elite high school math. So this will interest you, Tom.
The American Mathematics competition, you know about it, Students spend
years preparing for it, attracts attention top colleges, finance industry recruiters,
been around for seventy four years. But the Wall Street
Journal is saying there's been online leaks of the test
and it's gotten out. They were available online hours days
(21:52):
before students sat down for the test. Some were free,
some were had a charge of like a few hundred dollars.
But kids about it. The league on TikTok, parents, math coaches,
they're all up in arms. They want the content you know,
administrator to do something, and they did. You know, they
did disqualify some students. But it just goes to show
you it's getting this out there, this.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Close to this theme in America of the dumbing of America.
A major shot out Jeff Sacks of Columbia, way out
front with a discussion of the dumbing down of America,
and it forgets Damien Sasauer an upper death stile. They're
doing math in high school, Damien, you and I dreamed
of while you're in college.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Well, you know the type of companies that support the AMC,
the competition Citadel, Hudson River Trading, big high frequency trading firms,
and hedge funds who are obviously quantitative and focus.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Isn't that right, Lisa, Yeah, No, most definitely. And they
do because these are the top of the top. I mean,
they go to the math math Olympiads, they go internationally
to compete with this.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
This is the time a guest of ours honored to
have way Leon from Blackrock. She won not one year
but two year, really the Chinese equivalent, really a ward
in China. You know that was their ticket to Cambridge.
I believe it was. But but what I would emphasize, folks,
is this delusion of the dumbing of America completely ignores
(23:12):
in upper deactyle. That's just killing it.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Well, list, I'll tell you one thing Cambridge probably doesn't
have so already houses with blow dry bars and crystal chandeliers.
Isn't that right?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And we're ahead of that in Miami.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
It is happening.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Blow dry bars.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
You you sit down, that's what it is, and they
blow dry your hair. These are big time sorority houses,
multimillion dollar makeovers, crystal chandeliers, Okay, craft rooms so they
can make their banners, dining hall, study rooms, of video conferencing.
I mean we're talking mega mansions.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Fifteen perhaps, I mean incredible.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Wait are we talking Try Delt or Kyomega.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
Delta Zeta and try Dell, Yes, try Delt.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Why did I know that you have no idea my history?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh wanted to six or seven good mornings.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
But the secret whatever stays at the sinking boulder cover.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
What the that's aflying Gumbo delt try Delts fifteen million
dollar renovation. University of Arkansas, that's what they have there.
University of Alabama, that's Delta's eight to seventeen million dollars
forty thousand square feet. But the thing is they need
to attract members, right. You look at the Wall Street
Journal article, whose pictures are amazing of some of these places.
(24:26):
I mean, these girls are all over social media, filming,
you know, everything to try and get more people. What
I didn't realize is that they start recruiting them right
out of high school.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
It's so different, and this goes to the polarity into
this academic season of in England, in France, across continental Europe,
they're saying, we don't do that.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
What I'm wondering what your sorority views are now as
a parent at University of Alabama that your daughter's going
to try it. I mean, I'm just curious because you know,
I'm not quite there yet, but I imagine at some
point I will be so yes.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
And that's the one thing the article does not say.
I kept looking, I'm like, well, how much does it
cost for kid to go there?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
But it does not costing the kids this year, it's
costing the parents next year.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
His conversation was Kapa kapa, gamma free kk gene.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Next space travel, that's we're going to SpaceX are going
to launch a methane detecting satellite. It's going to track
those super polluters. So it's part of a nonprofit Carbon Mapper.
It's the Tanneger one satellite. So it's about the size
of a mini fridge and basically it goes off and
it'll look at companies like oil and gas, wells, livestock operations.
(25:28):
You've heard around the This is happening today. Full disclosure
though Carbon Mapper Coalition. It has received funding from Bloomberg philanthropies.
But it's it's happening today and they're going to make
that data available in the coming months and it's really
going to show where those big movers are.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Like China, and do we need a new satellite to
tell us that China is an old.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
We have ja Javier Bloss, thank you so much. Really
on a tight schedule. Javi Bloss from London yesterday. I'm
coal and it's it's just the partition between China and
India and oecd on coal alone is just absolutely stunning.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Next and the food value wars, I will end you
with this. They are heating up again subway getting into
the competition. Okay, so if you like your sandwiches. This
is a source from the New York Post.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
They're saying that.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
They're going to put out this promotion. Okay, remember the
five dollars hot hot foot long, Well that's long gone.
Inflation has happened, so now it's six dollars and ninety
nine cents. So that's what they want to do. Oh
good price for a foot long, considering that you know
some of them are like ten dollars. So they're gonna
make it starting August twenty six. You can get the
foot long. And it's not just going to be one
(26:38):
like how they did a lot of times. It's going
to be a different one, you know, for different weeks
and for different days.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
And this is worldwide, across the whole country, not just
the New York.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
They tried it out in La they made it seven
dollars in ninety nine cents. That was little two is
still too pricey, so they're dropping it a buck. They're
making it six dollars.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
This is a Bloomberg surveillance podcast, bringing you the best
in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. You can also
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(27:18):
or anywhere else you listen, and always on Bloomberg Radio,
the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app.
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