July 17, 2025 • 36 mins
This a Vintage Selection from 2006
The Banter
The Guys kick around some questionable burger ideas that they don’t find appealing.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys welcome Plymouth Gin Master Distiller Sean Harrison from across the pond. Sean talks about the trials and rebirth of gin and even shares the secret Plymouth Gin recipe.
The Inside Track
The Guys are fans of Sean’s Plymouth Gin both in and out of cocktails.
Francis: Sean, will you tell us how gin is made and why gin is so much more flavorful than it's the other clear spirit vodka?
Sean: Yeah, because gin is a recipe. In all, if you actually look at what gin is, we take very neutral alcohol. That very neutral alcohol, we can actually put it into a bottle and call it vodka. So gin is the original flavored vodka.
Francis: So basically you're saying that vodka is incomplete gin?
Sean: Yes. It's halfway to God's world, basically.
Sean Harrison on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2006
Bio
Sean Harrison, Plymouth Gin Master Distiller, joined Plymouth Gin in 1994 as Assistant Manager, rising to become Master Distiller. He is the keeper of their coveted 200 year old recipe, passed down verbally to every Master Distiller since 1793.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Francis (00:42):
Hey there, mark.
Mark (00:43):
Hey Francis.
Francis (00:43):
How are ya
Mark (00:44):
shipper?
Francis (00:45):
You know, I read in USA today, recently.
Oh,
Mark (00:48):
actually, this article came to us through, the newsroom
brought this article to us'causethey thought it was too
ridiculous for them to talkabout the news department.
Mike Pavlich brought thisarticle to us last week.
Francis (00:58):
Mike Pavlich, co.
WCTC Radio, uh, passed this, thebit of news, news, uh, scooping
over to the restaurant side.
Thank you Mike pco.
Um, I'm looking here.
Had, uh, a number ofcheeseburger ideas, which were
brought up recently.
That didn't work.
I'm looking at No, some of'em
Speaker 8 (01:15):
worked.
Some of'em are working.
Some of'em.
People are eating these things.
Well, that it's America man.
This is the home of,
Francis (01:21):
I don't know what.
This is the home of, uh, what isthat?
What is that reality show wherepeople eat bugs?
Uh, fear factor.
Fear factor.
There you go.
Here's some fear factor food foryou.
Everybody.
Cheeseburger on a donut.
Uh, seems though.
Crispy cream
Mark (01:32):
cheeseburger.
They're cut.
Here's what they're doing at, atthis, this minor league baseball
team.
They're cutting crispy creams inhalf.
Then they're putting
Francis (01:39):
half, half long ways like to make two Right.
To make up Right.
With holes
Mark (01:43):
in them to make donut with Right.
Exactly.
To make them into abundance.
Okay.
And they're putting acheeseburger between them with
the sticky side down so youdon't get too messy, but the,
the sugar side against burger,sugar side against the burger to
create.
What clearly is one of the mostdisgusting, worst for you foods
on the planet Today,
Francis (02:01):
I'm, I'm looking at a picture of it.
The cheeseburger donuts, theGateway Grizzlies, an
independent baseball league insaga Illinois, started selling
baseball's best burger.
I doubt it.
This month, four 50 acheeseburger with two strips of
bacon between sliced crispycream donuts.
It comes to the plate with athousand calories, 45 grams of
fat.
But the grizzlies are selling150 a
Mark (02:22):
game, 1000 calories.
Okay.
That's half your diet.
Francis (02:24):
That's, you have two of them.
You're done today.
But
Mark (02:26):
seriously, okay, if I want a cheeseburger and a donut.
I don't want it all at once.
Okay.
I want two.
Nice, fun,
Francis (02:33):
tasty, bad for me things.
Do you remember when your momtold you you couldn't go
swimming for 45 minutes afteryou had it eaten?
Yeah.
Well that turns out not to betrue, but you shouldn't have a
donut for 45 minutes after youhave a cheeseburger.
There are two great taste of donot taste great together.
I'm looking with the bacon.
Oh,
Mark (02:50):
it's gr.
It's GR sugar.
Salty, but wait, fried thing.
Wait,
Francis (02:55):
but wait, there's more.
UNO Chicago Grill.
Launched a bacon cheeseburger,deep dish pizza.
It's a deep dish pizza toppedwith six ounces of grilled
ground beef, pickles, mustardand ketchup.
Mark (03:05):
Okay, hold on.
I'm okay.
Ready?
You gotta put on my pizza groundbeef.
Alright.
Okay, that's fine.
You know, sometimes do youground beef?
How do you feel about pickles?
Bacon?
Speaker 8 (03:15):
I'm okay with bacon on my pizza.
All right.
Bacon.
Little, little chopped meat,little bacon pickles.
All right.
You didn't go too far.
Mark (03:21):
And there you've gone too far.
And then you wanna take it alittle farther?
Let's put some ketchup on mypizza.
Where do you live?
Middle America With I, come on.
Middle America listens to thisshow and, and.
Uh, lemme tell you something.
Anybody who's putting ketchup ontheir pizza, who's listening to
this broadcast, please email meso I can make fun of you.
Turn
Francis (03:41):
off your radio.
We don't want you, we don't wantyou as listeners.
You're fired as a listener ifyou do that.
Cheeseburger, egg rolls, uh,promotion by bennigan's that.
Bastion of culinary innovation.
Uh, 6 99 appetizer sizzled.
So it gets a permanent slot onthe July.
In July, says Clay Dover, vicePresident of marketing.
It's, um, an egg roll stuffedwith ground beef cheese.
(04:02):
There we are again, pickles,onions, and mustard.
Okay.
Once
Mark (04:05):
again, I'm gonna say.
And then deep fried, it's thepickles, the onions, and the
mustard there.
Really?
And your egg girl messing me up.
Francis (04:11):
Uh, yeah.
Those are the ones that I, and
Mark (04:13):
that's, can I, you know.
Francis, you know this about me.
I love fried foods, okay?
I, I love them.
Alright, but can we stop puttingevery food on the planet into
the deep fryer?
Okay.
We, you know, I understand.
Okay.
Corn dogs.
Okay.
That was kind of a cool idea.
All right.
What's kind of a cool
Speaker 8 (04:32):
idea?
All right.
Corn dogs.
All right.
That's not so bad.
Twinkies.
Yeah.
Have you
Francis (04:37):
heard about this?
You went over the top, you outthere and listened to land.
Have you heard about this?
Leafless.
Fried Twinkies.
Fried Twinkies.
Okay.
Jennifer?
Mark (04:42):
My, my wife and kids were just at one of those little
carnivals.
Okay.
And she came back and she said,ah, new low.
I just had a new low in food forme of all time.
Francis (04:52):
Did she try one?
Mark (04:53):
No, no, no.
The, the new carnival.
Like goodie, what is it?
Fried Oreos.
Batter dipped like in a, a, afunnel cake batter.
Fried Oreos.
How was it?
Ew
Speaker 8 (05:08):
just came back.
She was like, um, not so good.
Can I just have an Oreo?
Can I just have one of the Oreosplease?
And
Francis (05:14):
oh my, let's, let's talk about some good food.
Mark (05:16):
Okay, let's talk about some.
Is there any left on the planetis what I want to know.
Uh, one thing.
'cause I keep seeingcheeseburger tacos and
cheeseburger fingers andcheeseburger salad.
And, Francis and I you know, oneof the good things that we can
talk about is cheeseburgers.
Yeah.
Okay.
One of the reasons it's one ofthe most popular foods in the
United States is'cause it'snearly perfect.
(05:36):
Yeah.
Stop.
Messing with it.
Francis (05:39):
And when you, cook your cheeseburgers at home, uh, you
know, everybody has a littletrick for cheeseburger.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta make the cheeseburgerkind of thick.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta use good ground beefand, and for all your foodies,
this is obvious, but for thoseof you who aren't foodies, don't
buy the leanest ground beef youcan get.
Mm-hmm.
The, the flavor comes from fat.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And so you wanna buy not verylean beef to make a good.
Mark (06:00):
Burger.
The, the other thing that, Iwant to tell people, if you have
a local butcher, if you havesomebody who will ground beef
for you grind or who will grind.
Beef into ground beef for you.
How's that?
Uh, who, who will, who willgrind beef for you?
Use that butcher, frankly.
if you have a KitchenAid mixerfor about 30 bucks, there's a,
(06:21):
there's a grinder on there ifyou can grind your own meat.
why do you have to cook a burgerto well or medium well in order
to, eat it.
Why is that recommended by a lotof people.
Well, it's recommended becausethe pathogens on, uh, meat
generally are on the outside ofthe meat.
Okay.
Whether it's the, the outside ofthe chicken or the outside of
the beef.
(06:41):
And you have to get that beef toa certain temperature on the
outside because mostly ofanything that will happen that's
happened, bad has happenedeither due to handling or things
that are on the outside of themeat.
That's why the inside of a, of asteak can be, can be red, nearly
raw.
And, and people are recommendingthat, the inside of a burger
shouldn't be raw.
Because it's ground.
Well, if it's freshly ground, ifyou are grinding it, if you know
(07:04):
the conditions in your ownkitchen and you've kept
everything clean and sterile, ifyour butcher, if you're standing
there watching your butcher, uh,grind and, you just saw him put
new gloves on and you trust thisbutcher's cleanliness.
Well, then you can have thoseburgers to rare or, or medium
rare, and you don't have toworry about cooking them as
much.
The key is, is trusting fromwhere your beef comes.
(07:24):
And then you don't have to worryas much about the pathogens.
Francis (07:27):
Here's a little trick that, uh, some, people who wanna
make their burgers a little moreflavorful do they throw in a
little extra fat mm-hmm.
Into the grind.
And I know one guy who throws alittle bit of duck fat into his
ground beef.
Nice.
And let me tell you something.
It's delicious.
I mean, and, and I'm
Mark (07:41):
not blowing our own horn here, but our burger, the burger
at the restaurant did win bestcheeseburger in New York City
from city Search before theybanned us for being not from New
York, 35 miles outside of NewYork.
But besides that, Don't beafraid of putting a little fat
in your burger and don't messwith it once it's on the grill,
okay?
Don't, don't keep flipping itand flipping it and flipping it
and get burger from a place thatyou trust so you can have it.
(08:04):
Rare or medium rare or evenmedium.
the same way you would have yoursteak.
Hopefully you can eat yourburgers that way.
Francis (08:10):
Well, um, so there's a little burger advice from the
restaurant guys.
We'll be back in, uh, just amoment.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left in CaptainLombardi restaurants in downtown
New Brunswick, New Jersey.
Our guest is Sean Harrison.
Now Sean is one of only 22master distillers of gin in the
world.
He's master distiller at thePlymouth Gin in Plymouth,
England, and he joins us fromthere today, uh, to talk about
(08:32):
gin in general.
Hi Sean, welcome to the show.
Sean (08:35):
Hi.
Hello.
Thanks very much for letting meon.
Francis (08:36):
wouldn't, wouldn't have it any other way.
Now, Plymouth Gin, uh, we didn'tsee much of in the United
States, uh, or at least aroundNew York until recently.
And it's really been resurgentin the last, oh, I don't know,
five, seven years or so.
With the cocktail craze in
Mark (08:50):
1999, we certainly saw Plymouth Gin kind of, kind of
come back.
You want to tell us about howand why that happened?
Sean (08:56):
Yeah.
Um.
Quite strange really.
'cause Plymouth gin is actually213 years old.
But over the last, um, 50 years,we've had a little bit of a
checkered history,unfortunately, and it's only
really within the last 10 yearsthat that's been turned around.
Francis (09:10):
So what, what was checkered?
What went right?
What goes right, what goeswrong?
It talks about the little red
Mark (09:14):
spaces and the little black space.
Sean (09:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, unfortunately forgin, the second World War got in
the way, because if you look atthe history of gin before the
Second World War with a cocktailcraze of like the twenties and
thirties, you know, gin was thein drink and with the sort of
second world war, right?
Arriving, most of theingredients that we use are
actually come from Europe andmost of the markets that we sell
(09:36):
to are exported, and suddenlyboth of those got a little bit
difficult for six years.
And then with the end of the warand business trying to
reestablish itself and sort oftrying to get Europe getting
itself going again.
It took about 10 years or so,and within that sort of 15 year
period, really Plymouth gin diedquite, quite hugely, really.
(09:57):
And the family unfortunatelydidn't have enough money after
the water to reinvest and startthe business going again, and we
disappeared into corporatehands.
And then when you
Francis (10:06):
say you disappeared into corporate hands, did the
recipe change?
Did the quality go down?
What?
What happened to the gin itself?
Sean (10:11):
The quality dipped during the war years without a shadow
of a doubt.
Everybody that I've spoken tothat sort of drank Plymouth
Ginger in the Second World Warwas saying that it just got
worse and worse as, as the warwent on.
So basically people stoppeddrinking it.
And once the sort of thebusiness or the sort of Europe
started to get back on its feet,unfortunately for gin, vodka
became fashionable.
Francis (10:31):
Now let's talk about gin versus vodka because you may
not realize out there inlistener land, if you go to the
temples of the cocktail, say inhold on.
Mark (10:39):
You realize this, if you listen to this show, France is
constantly proselytizing about Gover over.
But if you go,
Francis (10:45):
if you go to serious cocktail places in New York, if
you talk to Dale DeGraff or GaryRegan, or if you go to, um, the
Pegu Club, or if you go to, uh,employees only, or Angels Share,
they'll have lists of cocktailsbased in whiskey.
They'll list of cocktails basedin gin.
But you know, the, the vodka issort of kept under the bar like
a dirty magazine.
You know, you need to ask forit, and that it's,
Mark (11:06):
it's the rare cocktail that has.
Vodka.
Francis (11:08):
And that's because, you know, people say, oh, well I
prefer vodka over gin, vodka,legal definition flavorless,
alcoholic beverage.
I mean, and if you don't like.
Alcoholic beverages.
Vodkas is your choice,
Mark (11:18):
but all vodkas aren't flavorless anymore.
But, but that's not the,
Francis (11:21):
but once you put'em in a cocktail, they disappear.
Alright.
But gin really has its ownpersonality.
Sean, will you tell us how ginis made and why gin is so much
more flavorful than it's theother clear spirit vodka?
Sean (11:31):
Yeah, because gin is a recipe in all.
If you look at actually what ginis, we take very neutral
alcohol.
That very neutral alcohol, wecan actually put it into a
bottle and call it vodka.
So gin is the original flavoredvodka.
Francis (11:44):
So basically you're saying that vodka is incomplete?
Gin.
Sean (11:48):
Yes.
It's half, it's halfway to God'sworld, basically.
Uhhuh.
But the big difference reallywith gin is that the legal
definition is gin, is thatjuniper has to be the largest
single flavoring ingredient.
Francis (11:59):
Now, Juniper, tell us what juniper is.
Sean (12:01):
Um, juniper is a berry, it's a small sort of tree, sort
of bush like, um, plant that'spart of the pine family of
trees.
Speaker 10 (12:09):
Mm-hmm.
Sean (12:10):
And it grows about sort of 3000 feet, or ideally it grows
about 3000 feet up on the sideof a hill.
It likes a bit of sun.
It likes a bit of cold weather.
And, um, it's, it's been knownabout for centuries.
Originally when Juniper firstcame on a scene, you are talking
about eight or eight or 900years ago, and it was being used
to make medicines and it's onlyreally when you get to the 16
(12:34):
hundreds that somebody actuallytook.
Juniper and alcohol and calledit gin.
Mm-hmm.
And then recipes became morerefined.
So for instance, we use seven,uh, six other ingredients, which
makes seven in total, and thatproduces a flavor profile.
And the analogy is very mucheither like perfume or like
cooking.
It's about balancing flavors,but on alcohol.
(12:56):
And that's why, that's whatmakes gin the different drink
to, to lots of other drinks.
Mark (13:01):
And one of the things that's really interesting and I
think great about gin and muchmore so than vodka, is the
different flavor profiles thatdifferent gin have different
houses of gin, different housesof gin, and.
What you, what Sean just saidwas there's a, there are
different recipes and everyhouse has their different recipe
for, for how their gin is madeand what the botanicals that go
(13:21):
into their gin are.
And if you like a very headygin, there are certain gins for
that.
And if you like, a lighter styleof gin, there are certain gins
for that and a whole broad arrayof different, different styles
and different brands of gin.
Francis (13:32):
Which is, which is why, uh, fellow cocktails that people
want to use gins in cocktailsand in a quality place.
When people use or come up witha cocktail recipe or recreate an
old cocktail recipe, they'll bevery, very specific about the
gin that's used in that cocktailrecipe because it's a very
specific and, and differentingredient.
(13:54):
Well, I mean, now do you seeyour gin being used in, or do
you like that your gin is usingcocktails?
Sean (13:59):
I love the fact that my gin is used in cocktails.
I, I've been asked this questionquite a few times and some
people say that, you know, don'tyou as a distiller find if
people are adulterating yourproduct when they mix it in
cocktails, I'm the exactopposite.
I think it's great that somebodywants to use the product that I
make in a drink and to try andwork around the flavors and to
make more interesting and morevaried drinks.
(14:21):
Because if you just drank ginmeat all of the time, then you
would probably find you'd loseinterest in it.
Francis (14:28):
We use it in a number of our cocktails, of our classic
cocktails in Catherine Lombardiat our cocktail bar.
And Sean, uh, we were talkingabout cocktails in gin.
I mean, in England where youwe're talking to you from,
England cocktails are really, Imean that they say that for a
long time the number one city inthe world for cocktails was New
York, especially with theresurgence of cocktails in the
(14:48):
eighties with Dale DeGraff.
But, but.
London I hear is the now prettymuch the preeminent cocktail
city in the world.
It's, it's really kind of caughtfire in London.
Sean (14:58):
Yeah, definitely.
London has sort of taken overthe lead, really, and I think a
lot of that is because theinterest of barman in the UK has
been captured by cocktails.
And the, the, the willingness towant to learn about them is
really quite strong.
In the uk the big differencereally between sort of the
cocktail scene in the UK and andAmerica is that you can pretty
(15:19):
much walk into any bar in the USand they probably.
Probably got an idea aboutmaking cocktails.
Whereas in the UK it's reallyonly the top end bars.
If you were to walk into anormal pub, they would look at
you oddly if you asked for acocktail,
Francis (15:34):
right?
You order a pint and a whiskeyand that's it.
Exactly.
Sean (15:36):
So you've gotta be a little bit careful which ones
you walk into.
But what's happened really inthe UK is because it's captured
the imagination, they've,they've taken cocktails and they
wanna use fresh ingredients andthey wanna use high class
products.
And they want to learn about allthe products.
So it's not just about gin.
They wanna know about rum, aboutwhiskey, about tequila, and
(15:57):
they've got a real interest inthe subject and the passion in,
in London about cocktails isjust huge.
Francis (16:03):
And if you, if you look at, I mean, I mean, a clear
example to us for of that is,is, you know, our friends who
are on the high, high end of thecocktail game in New York are
constantly flying over toLondon, either mm-hmm.
Because they're hired to dothings or they're working on
projects over there.
Uh, but or they're
Mark (16:15):
opening new cocktail bars.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Francis (16:17):
But no, the, the thing about cocktails, as we are
talking about them, however, andI want everybody to understand
this, is cocktails are likefood.
And the reason that people inNew York, people coined the term
bar chef.
There's a difference between thequote unquote martini bar that
uses a flavored vodka and goldschlager and a vanilla vodka,
and a raspberry vodka and anapple pucker.
Cocktails are never blue tomake, to make something.
(16:40):
You know, I guess there's,there's, there's a, there's a
little thing we have written inour cocktail menu.
It says, um, uh, apple pucker isto cocktails what mar what?
Twinkies are to cake.
You know, we're talking aboutreal ingredients and, and
Plymouth gin.
And using gin as a base meansare taking something seriously.
Whereas when you use vodka as abase, you use vodka as a base.
'cause you really don't want itto taste like anything, I think.
(17:00):
And you just want it to tastelike the juice or whatever it's
that you put in it.
We're gonna come back, uh, rightafter the news and talk more
with Sean Harris Harrison.
back in just a moment, you'relistening to the restaurant
guys, Our guest today is SeanHarrison.
He is one of only 22 masterdistillers in the world, and
he's a master distiller atPlymouth Gin.
He joins us from Plymouth,England to talk about.
Uh, gin and, and the resurgenceof this great house.
(17:21):
Now, we were talking before thenews about how Plymouth Gin was,
has for hundreds of years beenone of the, the best gins, and
the most recognizable ginscoming out of England.
It was the official gin andremains the official gin of the,
of the Royal Navy.
Is that correct?
Sean (17:34):
Yes, we have a very good association with the Royal Navy
Francis (17:37):
now.
Now, after World War ii, though,we got into trouble.
We weren't making as high aquality gin.
It wasn't being as widely drunk.
What happened to bring Plymouthgin back and what makes a gin a
great gin as opposed to theindustrial product it had
become?
Sean (17:50):
Oh gosh.
Now there's a long question initself.
Um, you got
Francis (17:53):
nine minutes.
Sean (17:56):
The reason we came back is, um, the company was sold by
one of the big corporations, thefour individuals that really
wanted to make it happen.
So basically they startedpushing and reselling Plymouth
Gin and getting out there andmarketing it again.
There has never been anythingreally wrong with the gin for
213 years other than the secondWorld War.
There's been absolutely nothingwrong with the gin.
(18:17):
So as soon as they started toreestablish it, then people
started picking up on it again.
And also, if you look atPlymouth Gin, if you go back a
hundred years, it's like, um,Plymouth Gin is recognized in
the very first dry martinirecipe from 1896.
If you then look in the greatcocktail books like the Savoy
cocktail books from the 1930s,Plymouth Gin is, is listed in
(18:39):
there 27 times.
So actually you suddenlyappreciate that actually 80 to a
hundred years ago.
They really understood PlymouthGin.
So it's just the last few yearsreally about sort of getting it
out there again, putting it infront of people and saying, Hey,
look at this gin.
And then we, we back up our, um,like our product by entering as
(18:59):
many competitions as we canreally to, so that we can be
judged by our peers, so that ourpeers recognize how good the gin
is.
Mark (19:06):
Has the recipe been the same throughout the whole time?
Sean (19:08):
It has the recipe's, 213 years old basically.
And we probably make it slightlydifferent today in the fact that
we put a lot more effort inchoosing the ingredients to keep
the consistency so we apply morescience to it.
That wasn't available 213 yearsago, but the actual recipe and
the actual makeup of what we'retrying to do is exactly the same
Francis (19:29):
now.
Now is all of the Plymouth GinPot still?
Sean (19:32):
It is, yeah.
It's all batch distills in a potstill.
Francis (19:34):
Why don't you tell people the difference between
pot still and column still andhow, how much more difficult pot
distillation is?
Sean (19:40):
Um, yeah.
Pot still really, and this sortof, the crux really of gin is we
are flavoring alcohol.
So we put into a pot still,which is an onion shaped still,
um, alcohol and water, and thenthe seven ingredients.
And what we're doing is we're,we're cooking out, we're
extracting the essential oilsoutta the ingredients and
attaching it to the alcohol.
(20:01):
That's something you can't do ina column still because a column
still works in reverse.
The column still is trying totake off flavor, whereas we are
trying to add it
Francis (20:08):
just so everybody knows out there what a column still
is.
Column distillation was a, was avery cheap way to distill and
it's the way most, uh, liquor isdistilled today.
It's still a very cheap, cheapway to distill.
And it's a way to constantly putsomething in the bottom of this
long column and then youbasically have baffles that heat
it up and so the steam rises tothe top and you get the alcohol
out out of the top.
And so you constantly have aninflow of, of raw material and
(20:30):
you constantly have an outflowof the, of the finished, you
know, cheaper product.
A pot still is the way thatthings have always been
distilled.
It's just you take a pot and youheat that pot up.
Then you have to stop and emptyit and clean it and start again.
A much more artisanal way tomake, uh, um, any spirit.
And there are very few gins thatare pot still.
Isn't that correct?
Sean (20:50):
Um, yeah.
There's the top end gins tend tobe pot still.
The rest, you've gotta be alittle bit careful when you see
that a gin in the shop.
The first thing you need to lookfor is the word distilled.
If it doesn't say distilled onthe label, then you need to be
looking on the back to see howit's made, because that, that's
a key word in the whole process.
Francis (21:09):
Mm-hmm.
And if it's not distilled, it'sjust infused.
Sean (21:11):
Um, yeah.
Or somebody has tipped essenceof, into, uh, a bat of alcohol
basically,
Francis (21:17):
which is basically just dropping flavoring into a bag of
alcohol.
Yes.
Precisely.
We'll call it the Kool-Aidmethod of making, uh, gin.
Now when, when we see a good ginversus a bad gin, I.
What do you look for in theflavor profile of a good gin
versus a gin that you think issubstandard?
What, what, what goes wrong?
When you, when you find a ginthat you don't, you don't think
(21:38):
is a very good one,
Sean (21:39):
you are looking for something that excites the taste
buds in more than one area.
The thing about essential oilsis that they get into your nose
and they get onto your palatebecause theoretically we can
only taste sweets, salt, bitter.
So what the flavors do is theyenliven the, those areas of the
tongue and then the smells getinto your nose.
So you are looking for more thanone particular taste, and the
(22:01):
more, the better really.
And that's really the differencebetween good gins and less good
gins.
Mark (22:08):
Hmm.
Besides the Kool-Aid gins thatyou discussed earlier.
Exactly.
Sean (22:10):
They, they, if it doesn't say distill it on the bottle or
it doesn't even hint at it,don't go anywhere near it.
Francis (22:16):
You know, I, I, I think that one of the interesting
things about, uh, I, I sat in afocus group, uh, in the last
couple of months put together bymy friend Dale, Dale DeGraff,
who's a, a preeminent cocktail,and it was these people bringing
in a high-end vodka, I don'tknow, from somewhere in eastern
Europe.
And we sat on a tasting panelwith seven of the commercially
available high-end vodkas.
And we did them all blind.
they actually did reasonablywell on the tasting panel.
It was me and seven otherpeople, like top, cocktail
(22:38):
people from from New York andwriters and, and the like.
And, and at the end they, theyasked for our input beyond just
what the, the vodkas tastedlike.
And we said, well, our input is,you know, and they said, what
are the questions?
What, what would it take for youto recommend this vodka or any
vodka to a customer?
And all of us, everyone aroundthe table said, I don't
recommend vodka to customers.
There's it.
(22:59):
People decide what vodka they'regonna drink based on a magazine
ad they've seen before theywalked into your bar.
And no one is gonna change.
No one's gonna ask you.
And because there are so slightdifferences between the two or
between the however many vodkasthere are, you're never gonna
get someone to recommend avodka.
And frankly, the other thing wesaid is when people drink vodka
in cocktails, now, maybe not asa martini, but, but they drink
(23:20):
vodka in cocktails.
If you took your average vodkadrinker with a brand loyalty and
swapped his vodka for anotherone.
He probably wouldn't know in hisvodka and cranberry juice, but
in all of our cocktails.
If you took a gin drinker with abrand loyalty mm-hmm.
And you swapped his gin foranother, right.
Mark (23:37):
You, you took, you took the Plymouth out and put
Hendricks in or Bombay in, youwould chase or a cheap one in
Francis (23:41):
Sally would, he would come right back at at.
Do you think that's a validassessment of the situation?
Sean (23:45):
Oh, definitely.
I know people, because all ginsare different.
Um, you can get completelydifferent drinks by changing the
gym.
I would also agree that one gindoes not fit every single
cocktail.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
Sure.
Sean (24:00):
Gin cocktails are designed for what that specific gin is
bringing to that cocktail, whichis why, for instance, the Gimlet
is actually originally aPlymouth gin cocktail.
The pink gin is originally aPlymouth gin cocktail, and my
little hobby horse is, there'sno such thing as a vodka
martini.
Basically it's a, it's a martinibecause it's gin in the glass.
Francis (24:20):
Well, sir, I think that if you came to Jersey and found
yourself with the chocolatemartinis that we have
surrounding us, you would findyourself very upset.
Mark (24:27):
Or the apple pucker martinis.
Exactly, exactly.
Or the blue cura.
So ladies and gentlemen,martini, like a
Francis (24:34):
martini has two ingredients, possibly three gin,
sweet vermouth, and maybe someorange bitters if you want to be
a little retro.
So why did James Bond switchover?
Sean (24:43):
it's one of the most annoying things, Ray.
I have no idea.
I mean, he's a Brit for God's
Francis (24:47):
sake.
Why did I switch over?
Sean (24:49):
And one of the odd things is Ian Fleming was a known
Plymouth gin drinker.
So, but actually what he wasdoing, he was just making James
Bond fashionable when he waswriting all the books in the
sort of late fifties, vodka wasbecoming on the scene.
Actually, the original JamesBond cocktail is a Vesper, which
is a gin and vodka based
Francis (25:06):
cocktail.
You know, if you wanna know justhow geeky we are, you can come
to Catherine Lombardi and ordera vesper and we'll make you one.
Go ahead.
I didn't know that, actually.
I have forgotten it, but we haveit on our cocktail menu.
But go ahead.
Sean (25:19):
Basically what happened is a Russian colleague, or friend,
or lover died, so he took thegin out in deference to that
person, and obviously it soundsbetter to say shaken, not
stirred.
So suddenly you get thiswonderful sort of, um, myth
around a martini that is justtotally untrue.
Francis (25:37):
Well, and also the whole shaken martini thing.
I want, I want everyone who'slistening to pay attention.
Stop doing that.
Yeah,
Sean (25:44):
exactly.
Francis (25:47):
You know, it was, it was, there's an old adage, I
forget how it goes.
Something like, you know, if ithas juice in it, it should
sparkle at smile at you orsparkle at you.
But if it's just liquor, juststir the damn thing and leave it
alone.
That's is something, is that theold adage?
No, no, no.
I'll have to look it up becauseI'm.
Pretty sure that's not exactlyhow it goes, Francis.
I lost it.
I went halfway down that roadand I couldn't come up with it.
Hey, hey, Hey, Sean.
Yep.
(26:07):
What's a master distiller andwhy are there only 22 of you?
Sean (26:10):
Um, that's a very good question.
What is a master distiller?
I suppose I'm the keeper of therecipe, if you like, of Plymouth
gin and I think that's what mostother.
Master distillers are, we'vedone, I suppose.
We've worked our apprenticeship,we know how to make gin, and we,
we've been given a recipe tolook after and, and to ensure it
continues along the line.
Francis (26:29):
Is it, is it a recipe that only you have that's locked
in a secret stake somewhere?
Uh, what happens if you get in acar crash or something?
Sean (26:34):
Right?
There are.
Three people?
Well, there's two people in theworld that actually know, um,
how to make to much in
Mark (26:41):
what if you're all in the same car?
Sean (26:43):
Um, well, if you've got a, an element of knowledge, there
is always enough ingredients inthe building to see us through
about another, well, six months,maybe a year, depending on when
the harvest comes in.
So if you know what you'redoing, you can work it out.
I, I keep bottles of what I,what I've used in the last few
years.
Francis (27:00):
Can you tell us what the, what the ingredients are?
Is that a secret?
Sean (27:02):
No, not at all.
Um, juniper's obviously the mainingredient, and we have
coriander seed, we have lemonand orange peel.
We have something calledangelica root.
We have something called orrisroot and cardamon pots.
Francis (27:13):
Now look, I just wanna reiterate to everybody who says,
well, I, I like vodka, but notgin.
That, but I they'll drinkflavor.
You'll drink flavored vodkas.
That that gin is a flavoredspirit.
It is.
it's.
Starts out as basically a vodkathat is then flavored with these
interesting botanicals
Sean (27:28):
Exactly, yeah.
And it's done a lot more subtly.
It's not just one flavor.
Mm-hmm.
It is a combination of flavors.
I think.
Francis (27:34):
I, I, but I also think, I think that, uh, a lot of
people have got a bad taste intheir mouth from gin because
they drank cheap.
That's good.
Yeah, that's right.
And that, remember the bad tastein their mouth that they got
from gin, uh, from, you know,inexpensive gin, which can be
very juniper and very heavy andvery weighty and almost
artificial tasting.
so if that's your experiencewith gin, maybe you pick up a
(27:55):
bottle of Plymouth gin.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know.
See the difference when thingsare done.
Well, now talk to us about somegins I know are a hundred proof,
some gins I know are, are muchlower proof.
What is, what is the relation ofalcohol to, to the way a gin
behaves in a cocktail or, or, orthe quality of the gin?
Sean (28:11):
There's an interesting relationship really between
alcohol and the way it worksbecause it's the alcohol that
holds the flavor when youdistill is the essential oils
that attach themselves to thealcohol.
So technically the more alcoholin a bottle, the more flavor
there is.
But the trouble with alcohol, ifyou're not careful with it, it
can be quite an abrasive hardsubstance, and there's a happy
(28:33):
medium between flavors holdingonto the alcohol and the amount
of alcohol you put into a drink.
And most cocktails are quitealcoholic, so you've gotta be a
little bit careful with thelevel.
In all honesty, between 41 and43 is probably about the best
level between flavor profile andalcohol for a bottle of gin,
Francis (28:55):
you know?
And so that, that's veryinteresting.
I think that people don'trealize that the, the amount of
alcohol that's in that gin has adirect correlation with the
amount of flavor that's there.
Mark (29:03):
Mm-hmm.
Now you guys rely.
less heavily on juniper and, andmore heavily on some of the
other botanicals than a, than alot of the other gin out there.
Francis (29:12):
What would you consider a very, very Juniper region gin.
And what would you consider agin that has very little
juniper?
My choice for the gin with verylittle juniper would be the
Bombay Sapphire.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
That's to me, that's gin forvodka drinkers.
Yeah.
As you're, as you're crossing
Mark (29:24):
over from vodka into gin, and it's a good way to start.
It's a fine gin too.
Bombay.
Bombay Sapphire would be a goodway to kind of softly tread that
water, so, yes, exactly.
Francis (29:32):
So, but then what's, what's the, the juniperus of
gins?
Sean (29:35):
Um, I would put Gordon's towards that end.
Francis (29:39):
Mm-hmm.
Sean (29:39):
Basically.
Francis (29:39):
Mm-hmm.
Sean (29:40):
I would put Tanay into the citrus bracket, along with 10 is
a more citrusy style of gin andwe pretty much fall between the
two really, between sort of thecitrus end and.
Sort of sapphire end really.
We are, we've got a bit of bothin Plymouth Gin.
Francis (29:58):
If you, if you wanna, um, uh, experiment with this,
uh, go out, this is, you know,this is a very easy experiment
to do.
If you want to test your ownpalate, go out and order, a
martini.
If you're a martini drinker or,something that has a.
A significant amount of gin, oreven ask the bartender to pour
you some Plymouth gin, someGordon's gin, and some Bombay
Sapphire gin.
And just by smelling it, you'llsee how different these things
(30:21):
are.
They're just found together bythe juniper.
I mean, and, and what,
Mark (30:24):
Sean said earlier is, you know, so much of this is in the
nose and so much of what, whatyou're tasting comes from the,
the aromatics of what we'redoing.
And so you'll see thosedifferences right in the nose
without even tasting itnecessarily most of the time.
Sean
Francis (30:38):
Final minute.
What's the future of Plymouth?
Plymouth Gin?
Sean (30:41):
Quite rosy really, because, as everybody's saying,
there's a, there's quite alittle bit of a backlash going
on really against vodka.
And the fact that, um, you know,gin is, is sort of making its
place in the world again.
Speaker 10 (30:52):
Well, that's
Sean (30:53):
great.
It's, and it's, it's the best,most exciting time to be a gin
for the, probably the last 50years.
Francis (30:58):
I, I agree.
And, and gin cocktails is, youknow, as people make more and
more cocktails at home, it's,it's a very interesting and, and
integral ingredient to a lot ofclassic cocktails.
Hey Sean, thanks for being onthe show.
Thank you very much.
Very nice talking to you, Sean.
Been a pleasure to have you.
Sean join joins us from, um,across the ocean really in, in
Plymouth, England, where he is amaster distiller at Plymouth Gin
(31:18):
Plymouth.
Was sort of this, the behind thebar bottle of old men and me
when years ago, I mean, Dale andI used to drink Plymouth Gin and
No.
And nobody else was doing it.
And, and now you'll find itaround a lot and if you, it's
kind of trendy actually.
Um, but that's not why youshould drink it.
You should drink it'cause it's,it's tremendous and it's.
Because it's not so powerful andflavorful, and because it's not
(31:40):
on the low end of the spectrum,it makes a great ingredient for
a basic ingredient for acocktail.
Well, uh, we'll be back in justa moment.
You're listening to TheRestaurant Guys, Our show today
(32:12):
was on gin.
These are a few of my favoritethings.
Gin is great in cocktails, man,and especially in the
summertime.
There's a magical, magicalcombination that you may not
realize out there that's soeasy.
Mm-hmm.
When you take gin and make, youcan make, this is a cocktail you
can make at home.
We'll put it up on our website.
We actually serve it in therestaurant.
It's gin muddled with cucumbers.
Muddling means just smash upsome cucumbers.
(32:34):
I mean,
Mark (32:34):
you can put it in the blender.
You could peel it and put it inthe blender and, oh, stop it.
Francis (32:37):
Yeah.
Mark (32:39):
You, you what?
Can't say that on the radio.
However, however you want to doit, uh, you can, you can just
take the, the cucumber, strainit out, uh, or you can muddle in
a cocktail like Francis isforcing you to do.
But, uh, I'm a control freak.
Chin and cucumber is a greatsummer.
combination cucumber juicedoesn't last real long, 24 hours
(33:02):
at the absolute maximum, andfrankly, I don't recommend it
that long.
Francis (33:05):
And that's why I say muddle.
It don't bother him putting inthe blender because it, it's
good as cucumber juice staysstays good as long as it's
inside the cucumber.
So you take a couple of slicesof cucumber and you put it on
the bottom of a rocks glass andyou mush it all up, and then you
add in maybe a little squeeze oflime and some gin.
Shake it on the rocks.
Really simple.
Ugh, really delicious.
Oh, good.
(33:25):
Summary, and you can finish itwith a spritz of soda if you
want, sitting by.
I don't even need to.
The pool
Mark (33:28):
and
Francis (33:29):
Plymouth Gin's a great
Mark (33:29):
gin for that few drinks that, that are more refreshing
than
Francis (33:33):
the, we're also gonna put up on the website.
The original drink of James Bondwas the Vesper, which was
written about in, uh, TedHague's most recent book was,
uh, forgotten Cocktails.
We'll put that, which of coursewe made Vespers for a long time.
Uh, because we didn't forgetbecause, because we didn't
forget.
Um, so that was oh, oh seven'soriginal cocktail before we
switched to vodka was theVesper.
We'll There's also the aviationcocktail, um, and the Seventh
(33:54):
Heaven, which is also in TedHagues.
And obviously
Mark (33:56):
there's hundreds and hundreds of other
Francis (33:57):
people.
And they're great.
They're very strong, so be verycareful.
And remember, the type of ginyou use is very important.
Plymouth gin is great.
Hendrix gin you can find aroundis great.
Mm-hmm.
And you're, and you're lookingfor gin.
That's not a hundred proof.
I don't like the a hundred proofgins that you find around, and
you're looking for.
And, and each gin has its ownflavor profile.
And, and false.
(34:17):
Your preference.
And
Mark (34:18):
again, we, we talked about this earlier, if you're a vodka
drinker and you kind of want toexperiment a little bit, try
Bombay Sapphire.
Yeah.
Very soft.
Very easy to drink Light juniperwith, with light juniper.
It's, it's a good way to kind ofcross over from the dark side.
Francis (34:31):
Hope you've enjoyed the hour, mark and I gonna go have a
martini this shot.
And I'm
Mark (34:34):
Mark Pascal.
We
Francis (34:35):
are the restaurant guys, central Jersey 14.
Time is.
Hey there, mark.
Mark (00:43):
Hey Francis.
Francis (00:43):
How are ya
Mark (00:44):
shipper?
Francis (00:45):
You know, I read in USA today, recently.
Oh,
Mark (00:48):
actually, this article came to us through, the newsroom
brought this article to us'causethey thought it was too
ridiculous for them to talkabout the news department.
Mike Pavlich brought thisarticle to us last week.
Francis (00:58):
Mike Pavlich, co.
WCTC Radio, uh, passed this, thebit of news, news, uh, scooping
over to the restaurant side.
Thank you Mike pco.
Um, I'm looking here.
Had, uh, a number ofcheeseburger ideas, which were
brought up recently.
That didn't work.
I'm looking at No, some of'em
Speaker 8 (01:15):
worked.
Some of'em are working.
Some of'em.
People are eating these things.
Well, that it's America man.
This is the home of,
Francis (01:21):
I don't know what.
This is the home of, uh, what isthat?
What is that reality show wherepeople eat bugs?
Uh, fear factor.
Fear factor.
There you go.
Here's some fear factor food foryou.
Everybody.
Cheeseburger on a donut.
Uh, seems though.
Crispy cream
Mark (01:32):
cheeseburger.
They're cut.
Here's what they're doing at, atthis, this minor league baseball
team.
They're cutting crispy creams inhalf.
Then they're putting
Francis (01:39):
half, half long ways like to make two Right.
To make up Right.
With holes
Mark (01:43):
in them to make donut with Right.
Exactly.
To make them into abundance.
Okay.
And they're putting acheeseburger between them with
the sticky side down so youdon't get too messy, but the,
the sugar side against burger,sugar side against the burger to
create.
What clearly is one of the mostdisgusting, worst for you foods
on the planet Today,
Francis (02:01):
I'm, I'm looking at a picture of it.
The cheeseburger donuts, theGateway Grizzlies, an
independent baseball league insaga Illinois, started selling
baseball's best burger.
I doubt it.
This month, four 50 acheeseburger with two strips of
bacon between sliced crispycream donuts.
It comes to the plate with athousand calories, 45 grams of
fat.
But the grizzlies are selling150 a
Mark (02:22):
game, 1000 calories.
Okay.
That's half your diet.
Francis (02:24):
That's, you have two of them.
You're done today.
But
Mark (02:26):
seriously, okay, if I want a cheeseburger and a donut.
I don't want it all at once.
Okay.
I want two.
Nice, fun,
Francis (02:33):
tasty, bad for me things.
Do you remember when your momtold you you couldn't go
swimming for 45 minutes afteryou had it eaten?
Yeah.
Well that turns out not to betrue, but you shouldn't have a
donut for 45 minutes after youhave a cheeseburger.
There are two great taste of donot taste great together.
I'm looking with the bacon.
Oh,
Mark (02:50):
it's gr.
It's GR sugar.
Salty, but wait, fried thing.
Wait,
Francis (02:55):
but wait, there's more.
UNO Chicago Grill.
Launched a bacon cheeseburger,deep dish pizza.
It's a deep dish pizza toppedwith six ounces of grilled
ground beef, pickles, mustardand ketchup.
Mark (03:05):
Okay, hold on.
I'm okay.
Ready?
You gotta put on my pizza groundbeef.
Alright.
Okay, that's fine.
You know, sometimes do youground beef?
How do you feel about pickles?
Bacon?
Speaker 8 (03:15):
I'm okay with bacon on my pizza.
All right.
Bacon.
Little, little chopped meat,little bacon pickles.
All right.
You didn't go too far.
Mark (03:21):
And there you've gone too far.
And then you wanna take it alittle farther?
Let's put some ketchup on mypizza.
Where do you live?
Middle America With I, come on.
Middle America listens to thisshow and, and.
Uh, lemme tell you something.
Anybody who's putting ketchup ontheir pizza, who's listening to
this broadcast, please email meso I can make fun of you.
Turn
Francis (03:41):
off your radio.
We don't want you, we don't wantyou as listeners.
You're fired as a listener ifyou do that.
Cheeseburger, egg rolls, uh,promotion by bennigan's that.
Bastion of culinary innovation.
Uh, 6 99 appetizer sizzled.
So it gets a permanent slot onthe July.
In July, says Clay Dover, vicePresident of marketing.
It's, um, an egg roll stuffedwith ground beef cheese.
(04:02):
There we are again, pickles,onions, and mustard.
Okay.
Once
Mark (04:05):
again, I'm gonna say.
And then deep fried, it's thepickles, the onions, and the
mustard there.
Really?
And your egg girl messing me up.
Francis (04:11):
Uh, yeah.
Those are the ones that I, and
Mark (04:13):
that's, can I, you know.
Francis, you know this about me.
I love fried foods, okay?
I, I love them.
Alright, but can we stop puttingevery food on the planet into
the deep fryer?
Okay.
We, you know, I understand.
Okay.
Corn dogs.
Okay.
That was kind of a cool idea.
All right.
What's kind of a cool
Speaker 8 (04:32):
idea?
All right.
Corn dogs.
All right.
That's not so bad.
Twinkies.
Yeah.
Have you
Francis (04:37):
heard about this?
You went over the top, you outthere and listened to land.
Have you heard about this?
Leafless.
Fried Twinkies.
Fried Twinkies.
Okay.
Jennifer?
Mark (04:42):
My, my wife and kids were just at one of those little
carnivals.
Okay.
And she came back and she said,ah, new low.
I just had a new low in food forme of all time.
Francis (04:52):
Did she try one?
Mark (04:53):
No, no, no.
The, the new carnival.
Like goodie, what is it?
Fried Oreos.
Batter dipped like in a, a, afunnel cake batter.
Fried Oreos.
How was it?
Ew
Speaker 8 (05:08):
just came back.
She was like, um, not so good.
Can I just have an Oreo?
Can I just have one of the Oreosplease?
And
Francis (05:14):
oh my, let's, let's talk about some good food.
Mark (05:16):
Okay, let's talk about some.
Is there any left on the planetis what I want to know.
Uh, one thing.
'cause I keep seeingcheeseburger tacos and
cheeseburger fingers andcheeseburger salad.
And, Francis and I you know, oneof the good things that we can
talk about is cheeseburgers.
Yeah.
Okay.
One of the reasons it's one ofthe most popular foods in the
United States is'cause it'snearly perfect.
(05:36):
Yeah.
Stop.
Messing with it.
Francis (05:39):
And when you, cook your cheeseburgers at home, uh, you
know, everybody has a littletrick for cheeseburger.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta make the cheeseburgerkind of thick.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta use good ground beefand, and for all your foodies,
this is obvious, but for thoseof you who aren't foodies, don't
buy the leanest ground beef youcan get.
Mm-hmm.
The, the flavor comes from fat.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And so you wanna buy not verylean beef to make a good.
Mark (06:00):
Burger.
The, the other thing that, Iwant to tell people, if you have
a local butcher, if you havesomebody who will ground beef
for you grind or who will grind.
Beef into ground beef for you.
How's that?
Uh, who, who will, who willgrind beef for you?
Use that butcher, frankly.
if you have a KitchenAid mixerfor about 30 bucks, there's a,
(06:21):
there's a grinder on there ifyou can grind your own meat.
why do you have to cook a burgerto well or medium well in order
to, eat it.
Why is that recommended by a lotof people.
Well, it's recommended becausethe pathogens on, uh, meat
generally are on the outside ofthe meat.
Okay.
Whether it's the, the outside ofthe chicken or the outside of
the beef.
(06:41):
And you have to get that beef toa certain temperature on the
outside because mostly ofanything that will happen that's
happened, bad has happenedeither due to handling or things
that are on the outside of themeat.
That's why the inside of a, of asteak can be, can be red, nearly
raw.
And, and people are recommendingthat, the inside of a burger
shouldn't be raw.
Because it's ground.
Well, if it's freshly ground, ifyou are grinding it, if you know
(07:04):
the conditions in your ownkitchen and you've kept
everything clean and sterile, ifyour butcher, if you're standing
there watching your butcher, uh,grind and, you just saw him put
new gloves on and you trust thisbutcher's cleanliness.
Well, then you can have thoseburgers to rare or, or medium
rare, and you don't have toworry about cooking them as
much.
The key is, is trusting fromwhere your beef comes.
(07:24):
And then you don't have to worryas much about the pathogens.
Francis (07:27):
Here's a little trick that, uh, some, people who wanna
make their burgers a little moreflavorful do they throw in a
little extra fat mm-hmm.
Into the grind.
And I know one guy who throws alittle bit of duck fat into his
ground beef.
Nice.
And let me tell you something.
It's delicious.
I mean, and, and I'm
Mark (07:41):
not blowing our own horn here, but our burger, the burger
at the restaurant did win bestcheeseburger in New York City
from city Search before theybanned us for being not from New
York, 35 miles outside of NewYork.
But besides that, Don't beafraid of putting a little fat
in your burger and don't messwith it once it's on the grill,
okay?
Don't, don't keep flipping itand flipping it and flipping it
and get burger from a place thatyou trust so you can have it.
(08:04):
Rare or medium rare or evenmedium.
the same way you would have yoursteak.
Hopefully you can eat yourburgers that way.
Francis (08:10):
Well, um, so there's a little burger advice from the
restaurant guys.
We'll be back in, uh, just amoment.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left in CaptainLombardi restaurants in downtown
New Brunswick, New Jersey.
Our guest is Sean Harrison.
Now Sean is one of only 22master distillers of gin in the
world.
He's master distiller at thePlymouth Gin in Plymouth,
England, and he joins us fromthere today, uh, to talk about
(08:32):
gin in general.
Hi Sean, welcome to the show.
Sean (08:35):
Hi.
Hello.
Thanks very much for letting meon.
Francis (08:36):
wouldn't, wouldn't have it any other way.
Now, Plymouth Gin, uh, we didn'tsee much of in the United
States, uh, or at least aroundNew York until recently.
And it's really been resurgentin the last, oh, I don't know,
five, seven years or so.
With the cocktail craze in
Mark (08:50):
1999, we certainly saw Plymouth Gin kind of, kind of
come back.
You want to tell us about howand why that happened?
Sean (08:56):
Yeah.
Um.
Quite strange really.
'cause Plymouth gin is actually213 years old.
But over the last, um, 50 years,we've had a little bit of a
checkered history,unfortunately, and it's only
really within the last 10 yearsthat that's been turned around.
Francis (09:10):
So what, what was checkered?
What went right?
What goes right, what goeswrong?
It talks about the little red
Mark (09:14):
spaces and the little black space.
Sean (09:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, unfortunately forgin, the second World War got in
the way, because if you look atthe history of gin before the
Second World War with a cocktailcraze of like the twenties and
thirties, you know, gin was thein drink and with the sort of
second world war, right?
Arriving, most of theingredients that we use are
actually come from Europe andmost of the markets that we sell
(09:36):
to are exported, and suddenlyboth of those got a little bit
difficult for six years.
And then with the end of the warand business trying to
reestablish itself and sort oftrying to get Europe getting
itself going again.
It took about 10 years or so,and within that sort of 15 year
period, really Plymouth gin diedquite, quite hugely, really.
(09:57):
And the family unfortunatelydidn't have enough money after
the water to reinvest and startthe business going again, and we
disappeared into corporatehands.
And then when you
Francis (10:06):
say you disappeared into corporate hands, did the
recipe change?
Did the quality go down?
What?
What happened to the gin itself?
Sean (10:11):
The quality dipped during the war years without a shadow
of a doubt.
Everybody that I've spoken tothat sort of drank Plymouth
Ginger in the Second World Warwas saying that it just got
worse and worse as, as the warwent on.
So basically people stoppeddrinking it.
And once the sort of thebusiness or the sort of Europe
started to get back on its feet,unfortunately for gin, vodka
became fashionable.
Francis (10:31):
Now let's talk about gin versus vodka because you may
not realize out there inlistener land, if you go to the
temples of the cocktail, say inhold on.
Mark (10:39):
You realize this, if you listen to this show, France is
constantly proselytizing about Gover over.
But if you go,
Francis (10:45):
if you go to serious cocktail places in New York, if
you talk to Dale DeGraff or GaryRegan, or if you go to, um, the
Pegu Club, or if you go to, uh,employees only, or Angels Share,
they'll have lists of cocktailsbased in whiskey.
They'll list of cocktails basedin gin.
But you know, the, the vodka issort of kept under the bar like
a dirty magazine.
You know, you need to ask forit, and that it's,
Mark (11:06):
it's the rare cocktail that has.
Vodka.
Francis (11:08):
And that's because, you know, people say, oh, well I
prefer vodka over gin, vodka,legal definition flavorless,
alcoholic beverage.
I mean, and if you don't like.
Alcoholic beverages.
Vodkas is your choice,
Mark (11:18):
but all vodkas aren't flavorless anymore.
But, but that's not the,
Francis (11:21):
but once you put'em in a cocktail, they disappear.
Alright.
But gin really has its ownpersonality.
Sean, will you tell us how ginis made and why gin is so much
more flavorful than it's theother clear spirit vodka?
Sean (11:31):
Yeah, because gin is a recipe in all.
If you look at actually what ginis, we take very neutral
alcohol.
That very neutral alcohol, wecan actually put it into a
bottle and call it vodka.
So gin is the original flavoredvodka.
Francis (11:44):
So basically you're saying that vodka is incomplete?
Gin.
Sean (11:48):
Yes.
It's half, it's halfway to God'sworld, basically.
Uhhuh.
But the big difference reallywith gin is that the legal
definition is gin, is thatjuniper has to be the largest
single flavoring ingredient.
Francis (11:59):
Now, Juniper, tell us what juniper is.
Sean (12:01):
Um, juniper is a berry, it's a small sort of tree, sort
of bush like, um, plant that'spart of the pine family of
trees.
Speaker 10 (12:09):
Mm-hmm.
Sean (12:10):
And it grows about sort of 3000 feet, or ideally it grows
about 3000 feet up on the sideof a hill.
It likes a bit of sun.
It likes a bit of cold weather.
And, um, it's, it's been knownabout for centuries.
Originally when Juniper firstcame on a scene, you are talking
about eight or eight or 900years ago, and it was being used
to make medicines and it's onlyreally when you get to the 16
(12:34):
hundreds that somebody actuallytook.
Juniper and alcohol and calledit gin.
Mm-hmm.
And then recipes became morerefined.
So for instance, we use seven,uh, six other ingredients, which
makes seven in total, and thatproduces a flavor profile.
And the analogy is very mucheither like perfume or like
cooking.
It's about balancing flavors,but on alcohol.
(12:56):
And that's why, that's whatmakes gin the different drink
to, to lots of other drinks.
Mark (13:01):
And one of the things that's really interesting and I
think great about gin and muchmore so than vodka, is the
different flavor profiles thatdifferent gin have different
houses of gin, different housesof gin, and.
What you, what Sean just saidwas there's a, there are
different recipes and everyhouse has their different recipe
for, for how their gin is madeand what the botanicals that go
(13:21):
into their gin are.
And if you like a very headygin, there are certain gins for
that.
And if you like, a lighter styleof gin, there are certain gins
for that and a whole broad arrayof different, different styles
and different brands of gin.
Francis (13:32):
Which is, which is why, uh, fellow cocktails that people
want to use gins in cocktailsand in a quality place.
When people use or come up witha cocktail recipe or recreate an
old cocktail recipe, they'll bevery, very specific about the
gin that's used in that cocktailrecipe because it's a very
specific and, and differentingredient.
(13:54):
Well, I mean, now do you seeyour gin being used in, or do
you like that your gin is usingcocktails?
Sean (13:59):
I love the fact that my gin is used in cocktails.
I, I've been asked this questionquite a few times and some
people say that, you know, don'tyou as a distiller find if
people are adulterating yourproduct when they mix it in
cocktails, I'm the exactopposite.
I think it's great that somebodywants to use the product that I
make in a drink and to try andwork around the flavors and to
make more interesting and morevaried drinks.
(14:21):
Because if you just drank ginmeat all of the time, then you
would probably find you'd loseinterest in it.
Francis (14:28):
We use it in a number of our cocktails, of our classic
cocktails in Catherine Lombardiat our cocktail bar.
And Sean, uh, we were talkingabout cocktails in gin.
I mean, in England where youwe're talking to you from,
England cocktails are really, Imean that they say that for a
long time the number one city inthe world for cocktails was New
York, especially with theresurgence of cocktails in the
(14:48):
eighties with Dale DeGraff.
But, but.
London I hear is the now prettymuch the preeminent cocktail
city in the world.
It's, it's really kind of caughtfire in London.
Sean (14:58):
Yeah, definitely.
London has sort of taken overthe lead, really, and I think a
lot of that is because theinterest of barman in the UK has
been captured by cocktails.
And the, the, the willingness towant to learn about them is
really quite strong.
In the uk the big differencereally between sort of the
cocktail scene in the UK and andAmerica is that you can pretty
(15:19):
much walk into any bar in the USand they probably.
Probably got an idea aboutmaking cocktails.
Whereas in the UK it's reallyonly the top end bars.
If you were to walk into anormal pub, they would look at
you oddly if you asked for acocktail,
Francis (15:34):
right?
You order a pint and a whiskeyand that's it.
Exactly.
Sean (15:36):
So you've gotta be a little bit careful which ones
you walk into.
But what's happened really inthe UK is because it's captured
the imagination, they've,they've taken cocktails and they
wanna use fresh ingredients andthey wanna use high class
products.
And they want to learn about allthe products.
So it's not just about gin.
They wanna know about rum, aboutwhiskey, about tequila, and
(15:57):
they've got a real interest inthe subject and the passion in,
in London about cocktails isjust huge.
Francis (16:03):
And if you, if you look at, I mean, I mean, a clear
example to us for of that is,is, you know, our friends who
are on the high, high end of thecocktail game in New York are
constantly flying over toLondon, either mm-hmm.
Because they're hired to dothings or they're working on
projects over there.
Uh, but or they're
Mark (16:15):
opening new cocktail bars.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Francis (16:17):
But no, the, the thing about cocktails, as we are
talking about them, however, andI want everybody to understand
this, is cocktails are likefood.
And the reason that people inNew York, people coined the term
bar chef.
There's a difference between thequote unquote martini bar that
uses a flavored vodka and goldschlager and a vanilla vodka,
and a raspberry vodka and anapple pucker.
Cocktails are never blue tomake, to make something.
(16:40):
You know, I guess there's,there's, there's a, there's a
little thing we have written inour cocktail menu.
It says, um, uh, apple pucker isto cocktails what mar what?
Twinkies are to cake.
You know, we're talking aboutreal ingredients and, and
Plymouth gin.
And using gin as a base meansare taking something seriously.
Whereas when you use vodka as abase, you use vodka as a base.
'cause you really don't want itto taste like anything, I think.
(17:00):
And you just want it to tastelike the juice or whatever it's
that you put in it.
We're gonna come back, uh, rightafter the news and talk more
with Sean Harris Harrison.
back in just a moment, you'relistening to the restaurant
guys, Our guest today is SeanHarrison.
He is one of only 22 masterdistillers in the world, and
he's a master distiller atPlymouth Gin.
He joins us from Plymouth,England to talk about.
Uh, gin and, and the resurgenceof this great house.
(17:21):
Now, we were talking before thenews about how Plymouth Gin was,
has for hundreds of years beenone of the, the best gins, and
the most recognizable ginscoming out of England.
It was the official gin andremains the official gin of the,
of the Royal Navy.
Is that correct?
Sean (17:34):
Yes, we have a very good association with the Royal Navy
Francis (17:37):
now.
Now, after World War ii, though,we got into trouble.
We weren't making as high aquality gin.
It wasn't being as widely drunk.
What happened to bring Plymouthgin back and what makes a gin a
great gin as opposed to theindustrial product it had
become?
Sean (17:50):
Oh gosh.
Now there's a long question initself.
Um, you got
Francis (17:53):
nine minutes.
Sean (17:56):
The reason we came back is, um, the company was sold by
one of the big corporations, thefour individuals that really
wanted to make it happen.
So basically they startedpushing and reselling Plymouth
Gin and getting out there andmarketing it again.
There has never been anythingreally wrong with the gin for
213 years other than the secondWorld War.
There's been absolutely nothingwrong with the gin.
(18:17):
So as soon as they started toreestablish it, then people
started picking up on it again.
And also, if you look atPlymouth Gin, if you go back a
hundred years, it's like, um,Plymouth Gin is recognized in
the very first dry martinirecipe from 1896.
If you then look in the greatcocktail books like the Savoy
cocktail books from the 1930s,Plymouth Gin is, is listed in
(18:39):
there 27 times.
So actually you suddenlyappreciate that actually 80 to a
hundred years ago.
They really understood PlymouthGin.
So it's just the last few yearsreally about sort of getting it
out there again, putting it infront of people and saying, Hey,
look at this gin.
And then we, we back up our, um,like our product by entering as
(18:59):
many competitions as we canreally to, so that we can be
judged by our peers, so that ourpeers recognize how good the gin
is.
Mark (19:06):
Has the recipe been the same throughout the whole time?
Sean (19:08):
It has the recipe's, 213 years old basically.
And we probably make it slightlydifferent today in the fact that
we put a lot more effort inchoosing the ingredients to keep
the consistency so we apply morescience to it.
That wasn't available 213 yearsago, but the actual recipe and
the actual makeup of what we'retrying to do is exactly the same
Francis (19:29):
now.
Now is all of the Plymouth GinPot still?
Sean (19:32):
It is, yeah.
It's all batch distills in a potstill.
Francis (19:34):
Why don't you tell people the difference between
pot still and column still andhow, how much more difficult pot
distillation is?
Sean (19:40):
Um, yeah.
Pot still really, and this sortof, the crux really of gin is we
are flavoring alcohol.
So we put into a pot still,which is an onion shaped still,
um, alcohol and water, and thenthe seven ingredients.
And what we're doing is we're,we're cooking out, we're
extracting the essential oilsoutta the ingredients and
attaching it to the alcohol.
(20:01):
That's something you can't do ina column still because a column
still works in reverse.
The column still is trying totake off flavor, whereas we are
trying to add it
Francis (20:08):
just so everybody knows out there what a column still
is.
Column distillation was a, was avery cheap way to distill and
it's the way most, uh, liquor isdistilled today.
It's still a very cheap, cheapway to distill.
And it's a way to constantly putsomething in the bottom of this
long column and then youbasically have baffles that heat
it up and so the steam rises tothe top and you get the alcohol
out out of the top.
And so you constantly have aninflow of, of raw material and
(20:30):
you constantly have an outflowof the, of the finished, you
know, cheaper product.
A pot still is the way thatthings have always been
distilled.
It's just you take a pot and youheat that pot up.
Then you have to stop and emptyit and clean it and start again.
A much more artisanal way tomake, uh, um, any spirit.
And there are very few gins thatare pot still.
Isn't that correct?
Sean (20:50):
Um, yeah.
There's the top end gins tend tobe pot still.
The rest, you've gotta be alittle bit careful when you see
that a gin in the shop.
The first thing you need to lookfor is the word distilled.
If it doesn't say distilled onthe label, then you need to be
looking on the back to see howit's made, because that, that's
a key word in the whole process.
Francis (21:09):
Mm-hmm.
And if it's not distilled, it'sjust infused.
Sean (21:11):
Um, yeah.
Or somebody has tipped essenceof, into, uh, a bat of alcohol
basically,
Francis (21:17):
which is basically just dropping flavoring into a bag of
alcohol.
Yes.
Precisely.
We'll call it the Kool-Aidmethod of making, uh, gin.
Now when, when we see a good ginversus a bad gin, I.
What do you look for in theflavor profile of a good gin
versus a gin that you think issubstandard?
What, what, what goes wrong?
When you, when you find a ginthat you don't, you don't think
(21:38):
is a very good one,
Sean (21:39):
you are looking for something that excites the taste
buds in more than one area.
The thing about essential oilsis that they get into your nose
and they get onto your palatebecause theoretically we can
only taste sweets, salt, bitter.
So what the flavors do is theyenliven the, those areas of the
tongue and then the smells getinto your nose.
So you are looking for more thanone particular taste, and the
(22:01):
more, the better really.
And that's really the differencebetween good gins and less good
gins.
Mark (22:08):
Hmm.
Besides the Kool-Aid gins thatyou discussed earlier.
Exactly.
Sean (22:10):
They, they, if it doesn't say distill it on the bottle or
it doesn't even hint at it,don't go anywhere near it.
Francis (22:16):
You know, I, I, I think that one of the interesting
things about, uh, I, I sat in afocus group, uh, in the last
couple of months put together bymy friend Dale, Dale DeGraff,
who's a, a preeminent cocktail,and it was these people bringing
in a high-end vodka, I don'tknow, from somewhere in eastern
Europe.
And we sat on a tasting panelwith seven of the commercially
available high-end vodkas.
And we did them all blind.
they actually did reasonablywell on the tasting panel.
It was me and seven otherpeople, like top, cocktail
(22:38):
people from from New York andwriters and, and the like.
And, and at the end they, theyasked for our input beyond just
what the, the vodkas tastedlike.
And we said, well, our input is,you know, and they said, what
are the questions?
What, what would it take for youto recommend this vodka or any
vodka to a customer?
And all of us, everyone aroundthe table said, I don't
recommend vodka to customers.
There's it.
(22:59):
People decide what vodka they'regonna drink based on a magazine
ad they've seen before theywalked into your bar.
And no one is gonna change.
No one's gonna ask you.
And because there are so slightdifferences between the two or
between the however many vodkasthere are, you're never gonna
get someone to recommend avodka.
And frankly, the other thing wesaid is when people drink vodka
in cocktails, now, maybe not asa martini, but, but they drink
(23:20):
vodka in cocktails.
If you took your average vodkadrinker with a brand loyalty and
swapped his vodka for anotherone.
He probably wouldn't know in hisvodka and cranberry juice, but
in all of our cocktails.
If you took a gin drinker with abrand loyalty mm-hmm.
And you swapped his gin foranother, right.
Mark (23:37):
You, you took, you took the Plymouth out and put
Hendricks in or Bombay in, youwould chase or a cheap one in
Francis (23:41):
Sally would, he would come right back at at.
Do you think that's a validassessment of the situation?
Sean (23:45):
Oh, definitely.
I know people, because all ginsare different.
Um, you can get completelydifferent drinks by changing the
gym.
I would also agree that one gindoes not fit every single
cocktail.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
Sure.
Sean (24:00):
Gin cocktails are designed for what that specific gin is
bringing to that cocktail, whichis why, for instance, the Gimlet
is actually originally aPlymouth gin cocktail.
The pink gin is originally aPlymouth gin cocktail, and my
little hobby horse is, there'sno such thing as a vodka
martini.
Basically it's a, it's a martinibecause it's gin in the glass.
Francis (24:20):
Well, sir, I think that if you came to Jersey and found
yourself with the chocolatemartinis that we have
surrounding us, you would findyourself very upset.
Mark (24:27):
Or the apple pucker martinis.
Exactly, exactly.
Or the blue cura.
So ladies and gentlemen,martini, like a
Francis (24:34):
martini has two ingredients, possibly three gin,
sweet vermouth, and maybe someorange bitters if you want to be
a little retro.
So why did James Bond switchover?
Sean (24:43):
it's one of the most annoying things, Ray.
I have no idea.
I mean, he's a Brit for God's
Francis (24:47):
sake.
Why did I switch over?
Sean (24:49):
And one of the odd things is Ian Fleming was a known
Plymouth gin drinker.
So, but actually what he wasdoing, he was just making James
Bond fashionable when he waswriting all the books in the
sort of late fifties, vodka wasbecoming on the scene.
Actually, the original JamesBond cocktail is a Vesper, which
is a gin and vodka based
Francis (25:06):
cocktail.
You know, if you wanna know justhow geeky we are, you can come
to Catherine Lombardi and ordera vesper and we'll make you one.
Go ahead.
I didn't know that, actually.
I have forgotten it, but we haveit on our cocktail menu.
But go ahead.
Sean (25:19):
Basically what happened is a Russian colleague, or friend,
or lover died, so he took thegin out in deference to that
person, and obviously it soundsbetter to say shaken, not
stirred.
So suddenly you get thiswonderful sort of, um, myth
around a martini that is justtotally untrue.
Francis (25:37):
Well, and also the whole shaken martini thing.
I want, I want everyone who'slistening to pay attention.
Stop doing that.
Yeah,
Sean (25:44):
exactly.
Francis (25:47):
You know, it was, it was, there's an old adage, I
forget how it goes.
Something like, you know, if ithas juice in it, it should
sparkle at smile at you orsparkle at you.
But if it's just liquor, juststir the damn thing and leave it
alone.
That's is something, is that theold adage?
No, no, no.
I'll have to look it up becauseI'm.
Pretty sure that's not exactlyhow it goes, Francis.
I lost it.
I went halfway down that roadand I couldn't come up with it.
Hey, hey, Hey, Sean.
Yep.
(26:07):
What's a master distiller andwhy are there only 22 of you?
Sean (26:10):
Um, that's a very good question.
What is a master distiller?
I suppose I'm the keeper of therecipe, if you like, of Plymouth
gin and I think that's what mostother.
Master distillers are, we'vedone, I suppose.
We've worked our apprenticeship,we know how to make gin, and we,
we've been given a recipe tolook after and, and to ensure it
continues along the line.
Francis (26:29):
Is it, is it a recipe that only you have that's locked
in a secret stake somewhere?
Uh, what happens if you get in acar crash or something?
Sean (26:34):
Right?
There are.
Three people?
Well, there's two people in theworld that actually know, um,
how to make to much in
Mark (26:41):
what if you're all in the same car?
Sean (26:43):
Um, well, if you've got a, an element of knowledge, there
is always enough ingredients inthe building to see us through
about another, well, six months,maybe a year, depending on when
the harvest comes in.
So if you know what you'redoing, you can work it out.
I, I keep bottles of what I,what I've used in the last few
years.
Francis (27:00):
Can you tell us what the, what the ingredients are?
Is that a secret?
Sean (27:02):
No, not at all.
Um, juniper's obviously the mainingredient, and we have
coriander seed, we have lemonand orange peel.
We have something calledangelica root.
We have something called orrisroot and cardamon pots.
Francis (27:13):
Now look, I just wanna reiterate to everybody who says,
well, I, I like vodka, but notgin.
That, but I they'll drinkflavor.
You'll drink flavored vodkas.
That that gin is a flavoredspirit.
It is.
it's.
Starts out as basically a vodkathat is then flavored with these
interesting botanicals
Sean (27:28):
Exactly, yeah.
And it's done a lot more subtly.
It's not just one flavor.
Mm-hmm.
It is a combination of flavors.
I think.
Francis (27:34):
I, I, but I also think, I think that, uh, a lot of
people have got a bad taste intheir mouth from gin because
they drank cheap.
That's good.
Yeah, that's right.
And that, remember the bad tastein their mouth that they got
from gin, uh, from, you know,inexpensive gin, which can be
very juniper and very heavy andvery weighty and almost
artificial tasting.
so if that's your experiencewith gin, maybe you pick up a
(27:55):
bottle of Plymouth gin.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know.
See the difference when thingsare done.
Well, now talk to us about somegins I know are a hundred proof,
some gins I know are, are muchlower proof.
What is, what is the relation ofalcohol to, to the way a gin
behaves in a cocktail or, or, orthe quality of the gin?
Sean (28:11):
There's an interesting relationship really between
alcohol and the way it worksbecause it's the alcohol that
holds the flavor when youdistill is the essential oils
that attach themselves to thealcohol.
So technically the more alcoholin a bottle, the more flavor
there is.
But the trouble with alcohol, ifyou're not careful with it, it
can be quite an abrasive hardsubstance, and there's a happy
(28:33):
medium between flavors holdingonto the alcohol and the amount
of alcohol you put into a drink.
And most cocktails are quitealcoholic, so you've gotta be a
little bit careful with thelevel.
In all honesty, between 41 and43 is probably about the best
level between flavor profile andalcohol for a bottle of gin,
Francis (28:55):
you know?
And so that, that's veryinteresting.
I think that people don'trealize that the, the amount of
alcohol that's in that gin has adirect correlation with the
amount of flavor that's there.
Mark (29:03):
Mm-hmm.
Now you guys rely.
less heavily on juniper and, andmore heavily on some of the
other botanicals than a, than alot of the other gin out there.
Francis (29:12):
What would you consider a very, very Juniper region gin.
And what would you consider agin that has very little
juniper?
My choice for the gin with verylittle juniper would be the
Bombay Sapphire.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
That's to me, that's gin forvodka drinkers.
Yeah.
As you're, as you're crossing
Mark (29:24):
over from vodka into gin, and it's a good way to start.
It's a fine gin too.
Bombay.
Bombay Sapphire would be a goodway to kind of softly tread that
water, so, yes, exactly.
Francis (29:32):
So, but then what's, what's the, the juniperus of
gins?
Sean (29:35):
Um, I would put Gordon's towards that end.
Francis (29:39):
Mm-hmm.
Sean (29:39):
Basically.
Francis (29:39):
Mm-hmm.
Sean (29:40):
I would put Tanay into the citrus bracket, along with 10 is
a more citrusy style of gin andwe pretty much fall between the
two really, between sort of thecitrus end and.
Sort of sapphire end really.
We are, we've got a bit of bothin Plymouth Gin.
Francis (29:58):
If you, if you wanna, um, uh, experiment with this,
uh, go out, this is, you know,this is a very easy experiment
to do.
If you want to test your ownpalate, go out and order, a
martini.
If you're a martini drinker or,something that has a.
A significant amount of gin, oreven ask the bartender to pour
you some Plymouth gin, someGordon's gin, and some Bombay
Sapphire gin.
And just by smelling it, you'llsee how different these things
(30:21):
are.
They're just found together bythe juniper.
I mean, and, and what,
Mark (30:24):
Sean said earlier is, you know, so much of this is in the
nose and so much of what, whatyou're tasting comes from the,
the aromatics of what we'redoing.
And so you'll see thosedifferences right in the nose
without even tasting itnecessarily most of the time.
Sean
Francis (30:38):
Final minute.
What's the future of Plymouth?
Plymouth Gin?
Sean (30:41):
Quite rosy really, because, as everybody's saying,
there's a, there's quite alittle bit of a backlash going
on really against vodka.
And the fact that, um, you know,gin is, is sort of making its
place in the world again.
Speaker 10 (30:52):
Well, that's
Sean (30:53):
great.
It's, and it's, it's the best,most exciting time to be a gin
for the, probably the last 50years.
Francis (30:58):
I, I agree.
And, and gin cocktails is, youknow, as people make more and
more cocktails at home, it's,it's a very interesting and, and
integral ingredient to a lot ofclassic cocktails.
Hey Sean, thanks for being onthe show.
Thank you very much.
Very nice talking to you, Sean.
Been a pleasure to have you.
Sean join joins us from, um,across the ocean really in, in
Plymouth, England, where he is amaster distiller at Plymouth Gin
(31:18):
Plymouth.
Was sort of this, the behind thebar bottle of old men and me
when years ago, I mean, Dale andI used to drink Plymouth Gin and
No.
And nobody else was doing it.
And, and now you'll find itaround a lot and if you, it's
kind of trendy actually.
Um, but that's not why youshould drink it.
You should drink it'cause it's,it's tremendous and it's.
Because it's not so powerful andflavorful, and because it's not
(31:40):
on the low end of the spectrum,it makes a great ingredient for
a basic ingredient for acocktail.
Well, uh, we'll be back in justa moment.
You're listening to TheRestaurant Guys, Our show today
(32:12):
was on gin.
These are a few of my favoritethings.
Gin is great in cocktails, man,and especially in the
summertime.
There's a magical, magicalcombination that you may not
realize out there that's soeasy.
Mm-hmm.
When you take gin and make, youcan make, this is a cocktail you
can make at home.
We'll put it up on our website.
We actually serve it in therestaurant.
It's gin muddled with cucumbers.
Muddling means just smash upsome cucumbers.
(32:34):
I mean,
Mark (32:34):
you can put it in the blender.
You could peel it and put it inthe blender and, oh, stop it.
Francis (32:37):
Yeah.
Mark (32:39):
You, you what?
Can't say that on the radio.
However, however you want to doit, uh, you can, you can just
take the, the cucumber, strainit out, uh, or you can muddle in
a cocktail like Francis isforcing you to do.
But, uh, I'm a control freak.
Chin and cucumber is a greatsummer.
combination cucumber juicedoesn't last real long, 24 hours
(33:02):
at the absolute maximum, andfrankly, I don't recommend it
that long.
Francis (33:05):
And that's why I say muddle.
It don't bother him putting inthe blender because it, it's
good as cucumber juice staysstays good as long as it's
inside the cucumber.
So you take a couple of slicesof cucumber and you put it on
the bottom of a rocks glass andyou mush it all up, and then you
add in maybe a little squeeze oflime and some gin.
Shake it on the rocks.
Really simple.
Ugh, really delicious.
Oh, good.
(33:25):
Summary, and you can finish itwith a spritz of soda if you
want, sitting by.
I don't even need to.
The pool
Mark (33:28):
and
Francis (33:29):
Plymouth Gin's a great
Mark (33:29):
gin for that few drinks that, that are more refreshing
than
Francis (33:33):
the, we're also gonna put up on the website.
The original drink of James Bondwas the Vesper, which was
written about in, uh, TedHague's most recent book was,
uh, forgotten Cocktails.
We'll put that, which of coursewe made Vespers for a long time.
Uh, because we didn't forgetbecause, because we didn't
forget.
Um, so that was oh, oh seven'soriginal cocktail before we
switched to vodka was theVesper.
We'll There's also the aviationcocktail, um, and the Seventh
(33:54):
Heaven, which is also in TedHagues.
And obviously
Mark (33:56):
there's hundreds and hundreds of other
Francis (33:57):
people.
And they're great.
They're very strong, so be verycareful.
And remember, the type of ginyou use is very important.
Plymouth gin is great.
Hendrix gin you can find aroundis great.
Mm-hmm.
And you're, and you're lookingfor gin.
That's not a hundred proof.
I don't like the a hundred proofgins that you find around, and
you're looking for.
And, and each gin has its ownflavor profile.
And, and false.
(34:17):
Your preference.
And
Mark (34:18):
again, we, we talked about this earlier, if you're a vodka
drinker and you kind of want toexperiment a little bit, try
Bombay Sapphire.
Yeah.
Very soft.
Very easy to drink Light juniperwith, with light juniper.
It's, it's a good way to kind ofcross over from the dark side.
Francis (34:31):
Hope you've enjoyed the hour, mark and I gonna go have a
martini this shot.
And I'm
Mark (34:34):
Mark Pascal.
We
Francis (34:35):
are the restaurant guys, central Jersey 14.
Time is.
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