Pass the Honey, Tell the Story: Douglas Raggio & Chef Josh Bernstein

The focal point of today's discussion centers on the concept of authentic food and the individuals who contribute to its creation, specifically highlighting the innovative approach of Douglas Raggio, the founder of Pass the Honey. Raggio is dedicated to transforming the honey industry by promoting clarity and sustainability, addressing the confusion surrounding sourcing and quality that has pervaded this market for years. Accompanying him is Chef Josh Bernstein, a Florida-based culinary artist whose childhood experiences fishing with his father have profoundly shaped his culinary philosophy. In this episode, Chef Josh prepares two exquisite dishes, one featuring Pass the Honey honeycomb and the other utilizing premium Aussie Select lamb, all while sharing anecdotes that emphasize the importance of sourcing and storytelling in the culinary world. Ultimately, this conversation serves as a testament to the intricate connections between food, its origins, and the passionate individuals who elevate it beyond mere sustenance.

Takeaways:

• The honey industry has been plagued by confusion and fraud, prompting the need for clarity and transparency in sourcing.
• Douglas Raggio's company, Pass the Honey, aims to redefine honey consumption by offering clean, single-source honeycomb directly to consumers.
• Chef Josh Bernstein emphasizes the importance of storytelling in cooking, reflecting on his childhood experiences with fishing and how they shape his culinary values.
• Honeycomb serves as a versatile ingredient, enhancing dishes beyond traditional uses, and can elevate the dining experience when paired creatively with proteins and salads.
• The conversation explores the challenges of educating consumers about honey and honeycomb, particularly regarding misconceptions about their quality and uses.
• Regenerative practices in beekeeping are essential for improving the livelihoods of beekeepers and ensuring the sustainability of honey production.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Pass the Honey
• Aussie Select Lamb
• Propagation Whiskey Bar & Kitchen
• The Burnt Chef Project
• US Culinary Open
• Pizza Tomorrow Summit
• New York Restaurant Show
• California Restaurant Show
• Florida Restaurant Show

Mentioned in this episode:

RAK Porcelain USA -Tableware

We use RAK for all in-studio tableware—clean, durable, and designed for chefs.

Citrus America

Citrus America – Commercial-grade juicing systems built for speed and yield.

Episode Transcript

(00:31):
You've just stepped inside thewalk and.
Talk, podcast number one inthe nation for food lovers, chefs,
and storytellers.
I'm Carl Fiadini, your host,shining a light on the flavor, the
hustle, and the heart of the industry.
We're the official podcast forthe New York, California and Florida
restaurant shows, the PizzaTomorrow Summit, the US Culinary
Open at Napham, and the NorthAmerican media platform for the Burnt

(00:53):
Chef project, recorded.
At Ibis Images Studios, wherefood photography.
Comes alive and I get thefirst bite.
Find out more [e-mail].
Today's episode is about realfood and the people behind it.
Our featured guest is DouglasRajo, founder of Pasta Honey, a company
redefining what clean singlesource honeycomb should look like.

(01:16):
For years, the honey industryhas been clouded by confusion from
unclear sourcing toinconsistent quality.
And Douglas is working tobring clarity, transparency, and
regeneration back to the process.
Joining us in the kitchen isChef Josh Bernstein.
He's a dear friend of the showand of mine.
He's a Florida bay chef whogrew up fishing with his father and

(01:36):
now brings that deepconnection to the ocean into every
dish he creates.
Today, he's cooking twodishes, one using.
Pasta honey, honeycomb, andthe other with Aussie select lamb,
while sharing how his choicechildhood shaped his values in and
out of the kitchen.
It's a conversation aboutsourcing, storytelling, and the people
who make food more than justsomething we eat.

(02:00):
My man.
Chef Josh, welcome to the program.
Thank you, Carl.
It's a pleasure to be back.
It's been a minute.
It's been like a year.
It has been too long.
Would you call me?
You heard me.
Okay.
All right, so listen, you did.
You did stuff today.
All of it was fantastic and beautiful.

(02:21):
Why don't you start with the.
With the first dish?
Pass the honey.
I tell you what, that was amazing.
The best honey I've ever triedin my life.
I mean, you think that you'vehad honey before until you've actually
been past the honey.
That honey was amazing.
Very savory, very clean.
Not sugar taste to it.

(02:42):
I mean, I don't know how toreally describe it.
You have to try it yourself.
It was.
As a chef, I was very, veryimpressed with that dish.
We paired that dish today withsome roasted beets and some spicy
pecans, gorgonzola cheese, achampagne citrus vinaigrette, and
some Florida citrus orange,along with some frise salad.

(03:04):
And I gotta tell you, I wasvery impressed.
It was really good.
It was one of the mostcolorful dishes I think we've had
in house.
John.
Yeah, I got a head shake.
That's good enough.
That means it's true.
You know, at the end of theday, you picked.
You picked the rightingredients for that dish to kind
of pair with the.

(03:25):
With the honeycomb.
It was wonderful.
So with that said, you know,I've been doing this a lot lately.
I kind of feel bad.
John, you did it again.
Photography outstanding.
Someday you're going to talk.
It'll happen.
It's going to happen.
Sign with John.
Josh, explain the next dish.

(03:47):
So I had the opportunity tocook with Aussie select lamb product,
fully cooked product.
And I chose the prime ribversion of the Aussie lamb.
And I'm glad I did, becausethe dish that we created with it
was a lamb Wellington.
And when you think Wellington,have you ever really thought lamb?

(04:09):
Probably not, but I gotta tellyou, it was pretty cool, man.
When you told me you weregonna do a Wellington, you were almost
like, man, what did you say?
You were like, man, this iskind of old school.
Whatever.
Yeah.
And he said, no, you're takinga classic and you're turning it around
and you're doing somethingcompletely different with it.
Because who the hell has doneblaming cured lamb in Wellington?

(04:33):
I would venture to say I'mprobably maybe the first one to do
so.
They say there's nothing newunder the sun, but I think this might
edge, that might sink justacross the goal line.
I think you did it.
I'm just saying.
And we did the traditionalmushroom japsell, the prosciutto,
the parma, and what we pairedit with lamb, traditionally, a lot

(04:58):
of people have mint jelly,some sort of mint with it.
And so we made a blueberrymint demi to go with it, and we paired
that with some tri coloredcaramelized carrots and some pearl
squash and zucchini.
I just thought the dish wentreally well together.
And when we sliced thatWellington in half, when you got

(05:20):
that pink, dark red color youwere looking for from a pre cooked
product, mind you, it just mymind blowing.
It was awesome.
I can't wait to see thepictures when they come out.
I know it's going to look great.
And it tasted wonderful.
You know, people, I know thatwhen someone listens to this podcast,

(05:40):
like, regularly, like we have,you know, hey, listeners.
Thank you.
Appreciate y'.
All.
When.
When people listen to this andthey go, yeah, this guy's always
saying that everything is great.
It is.
But there's a reason for that,because everybody that we bring in
house, they're professionals.
Like, we do vetting There's avetting process now.

(06:00):
See, Josh, I know Josh.
I know what he does.
Chef is amazing.
So I knew whatever he wasgoing to do today was going to be
a home run.
But even past that, whensomebody comes into the building
and we do what we do, wealready know what's coming.
It's not like we're taking a chance.
It's a guess.
There does a lot that goesinto the engine of production.

(06:21):
So freaking love you, man.
Thanks for coming out today, Carl.
Thank you so much.
It's always a pleasure to be here.
Isn't this fun?
It's.
Yeah.
I tell you what, when youcalled me and said, would you like
to do this again?
I made sure I canceledeverything I had today.
You literally did.
I did.
I know I did.
I had to cancel quite a few.
Things today, but it was worth it.
All right, so listen, youknow, Douglas, Rajo, you made it

(06:46):
to Florida, to Tampa from NewYork, and number one, sincerely appreciate
you making that trip to be onthe program.
Number two, sincerelyappreciate you coming on board with
us as a brand partner.
I'm going to say somethingbefore I introduce you.
I'm going to drop a nugget here.

(07:07):
I'm dropping a bomb.
Douglas.
Rajio is going to be thesecond podcast under the Walk and
talk umbrella.
Of course, the name of hiscompany is called Pass the Honey,
and you can rest assured thatthe podcast is called Pass the Honey
Podcast.

(07:28):
Douglas, welcome to the program.
Thank you very much.
I'm excited.
Tell me about it.
Feels weird to hear.
Isn't it weird to hear?
Yeah.
Was it weird to come here?
I mean, it's been a week.
I'm not going to shy away from that.
But, yeah, I'm very glad I came.
So it was meeting chef,meeting John.
Seeing you guys in action,seeing the production behind the

(07:49):
scenes, it's impressive.
We do a lot of prep workbefore you guys ever make it here.
And thank you.
And in the end, what we'rereally trying to do, impress the
audience and impress you guys,the guests.

(08:09):
Pass the honey.
How did it actually come to life?
What were you doing before youdecided to literally jump in with
the bees?
If I'm amping up the drama, Iwill say I was hating my life.
Previously, I had a venturecapital fund and a private equity
fund.
Thought I was going to createall these independent food brands.

(08:31):
Turns out venture capital justfurther consolidates the food system.
I then scuttled that and thencreated a private equity group to
kind of create independent businesses.
And then we took in a reallyToxic investor.
We had to fire sale the company.
And in that time I was gettingrun down and I was making honey lemon
ginger teas, trying to keep myimmunity up.

(08:52):
Most consumers go to buy honeyfor its nutritional benefits.
It's kind of legacy ofhealing, if you will.
Around that same time I hadwatched an episode of Netflix's Rotten
and the first episode was onhoney fraud.
And I learned that there'sjust an insane amount of fraud in
the honey industry.
And here I was seeking outhealth benefits in my honey lemon

(09:14):
ginger teas, putting highlyquestionable liquid honey into my
honey.
So I thought, oh, I'll justuse honeycomb.
Went and bought some.
It was really expensive and Inicked a bit and at that point I
put it on the counter andthought I'd come back to it tomorrow.
And I came back the next dayand it was an ant farm.
And I was like, well shoot.
They went, you know, 30 bucksand committed to my integrity of

(09:36):
my honey, I decided I wasgoing to go and buy another one,
you know, spend another 30bucks and haha, I'm going to put
it in the fridge.
That'll outsmart the ants.
No one's slacking Honeycomb,you got to go nick some.
And that was really thinkinglike, why isn't this convenient?
You know, how can we.
If that's the fullestintegrity and the fullest flavor
of true honey, why isn't it convenient?

(09:58):
And that was really thegenesis of the company.
And from there I thought Icould make some mailbox money with
some patents and just licenseit to beekeepers.
And then I couldn't find abeekeeper in the United States to
sell us Honeycomb becausethere's pesticide accumulation in
the wax.
And that was really disheartening.
It's thinking, oh wow, I can'teven buy it in the States.
That's bizarre.
And you peel that onion alittle bit more and there's no organic

(10:21):
standards for honey becauseyou can't fence or feed a bean organics
based on inputs.
And it's like, well that'seven more bizarre because I see it
on jars.
Then you peel the onion againand you realize, oh wow, beekeepers
are going out of businessbecause all the fraudulent imports
are driving the prices downthat they can't make a living any
longer.
And it's like, well shoot,that that's also, you know, another

(10:41):
crappy situation.
And if you look at all of it'slike, well, how can we actually stabilize
beekeeping as an industrybecause our modern food system is
based on it.
Like without a honeybee, wedon't have a bounty of food that
chefs like Chef Josh can makedelicious meals.
And so all those things kindof came together at various points
in time and we decided we werejust going to make a change.

(11:04):
And that was creating aconveniently formatted honeycomb
for consumers and chefs.
And if you make somethingconvenient all out of baby carrot,
you can start to increase consumption.
We can also educate a littlebit more.
We can engage consumers,diners in the food service realm.
And the honeycomb, peoplehaven't seen it in a while.
It's kind of fallen off the radar.

(11:26):
So we're bringing it back,like sexy.
Have to bring sexy back.
We also have to bring.
But we also have to bring backmore beekeepers.
100%.
And how do we do that?
You give them a way to makemoney and have a living.
No one's passing generationalbeekeeping operations down any longer.
It's like farming.
It's this kind of weird, sad,dying industry that we all depend

(11:51):
on that no one seems to takeany sort of long term view on.
It's not really a priority per se.
But what's the pathway to getthat done for us?
I feel that honeycomb is a wedge.
Honeycomb is a wedge to changethe conversation, to change a consumer's
awareness and perception ofhoney because it's a pattern erupt.
People haven't seen honeycombin that format.

(12:11):
They were used to seeing honeyin a little teddy bear.
That's super cute.
And that's like the nemesis ofour business.
Yeah.
If we can sell more honeycomb,we can give beekeepers a product
that they can sell at a pricethat they can have a life on.
That would be my.
That's Catalyst one.
Right.
And then you have the rippleeffect from that.

(12:32):
It's the.
If we can have that item thatbeekeepers can have a stable income,
we then can then move toeducating consumers on honey fraud.
Why does this honeycomb taste different?
Chef Josh, he made a comment,he said, this tastes unlike anything
I've had.
So what is the biggestmisconception about honey?

(12:53):
You know, it's in every store.
You mentioned the cute teddy bear.
What are we missing?
The biggest misconception isthat the honey you're buying is honey.
I think if I had to back itall up, the consumer's been defrauded
for decades.
The numbers are staggering.
It's 80% of all liquid honeyis actually fraudulent.
And by fraudulent, I mean it'sbeen cut with other processed sugars.

(13:13):
They cut it like drug.
So For a consumer that'sseeking out the nutritional benefits
like myself, you're notgetting that.
Essentially you're having acandy bar, which is why people experience
crashes as well.
That and the honey is cheapand freebie, and people are giving
out little honey sachets.
And honey comes from theearth, it comes from flowers, it
comes from terroir.

(13:35):
So would you expect wine to be free?
No.
But yet here's honey that hasall this nuance and health benefits
and history and flavor and.
And the insect that creates itis integral to our food system.
How is there an organic symbolon a honey if it's unquantified?

(13:57):
Valid question.
You asked the USDA in theNational Organic Program, the nop,
and there are no apiculturestandards because again, you can't
fence or feed a bee.
However, there has beenproposed guidance, and I put up my
quote, fingers on that, ofqualifying honey as livestock because
it's kept.

(14:17):
You can still feed a cow, youcan't fence a pee or feed a bee.
So if you look at things likepesticide adjacencies, you could
have a pristine 10 acres rightnext door.
Somebody could be sprayingwhatever they're spraying.
You could have somebody 2miles away, 10 miles away spraying.
And it comes into the wind pattern.
So the sheer amount of windlandscape research we have to do,

(14:42):
landscape managementpractices, we have to, before we
even get to beekeepingpractices, to just qualify that it's
pure honey without some sortof contaminant in it is difficult.
And we're losing forage zoneas well.
Isn't that something wherethey're able to run tests on the
actual honey itself?
We do honeycomb where it'scoming from.

(15:02):
Yeah, we do nuclear magneticresonance testing.
It's like an MRI for food.
It's the highest level oftesting you can do for any food.
And we look for pesticides, contaminants.
We do it to the parts perbillion, which is a thousand times
more stringent than organic standards.
We also look for sugar waterfeeding because that's another way
of adulteration.
And then we do a pollenanalysis that we match to regions
that we've qualified that areremoved from industrial agriculture.

(15:26):
Wouldn't then in that testing,it would show some levels of pesticide.
What I've been told from thelab is you never get a zero.
So there is always some levelof something.
But again, to the parts perbillion, it's coming at 0.000, whatever
the heck the number is.
So does that mean that thecompanies with the organic stamp
are going off of this analysisor is it cover your eyes and rubber

(15:51):
stamp it?
So here's the.
The upside down manner oforganic is that it's all practice
based.
It's disclosed.
I get a sheet and says, thisis what I do and this is what it
fits.
It's like a rubric, right?
We look at outcomes.
So our regenerative standardsare outcomes based.
We test before, during, afterfor honeybee health, beekeeper livelihoods

(16:13):
and ecological diversity.
We're still figuring out thetests on the last one, but making
sure beekeepers are paid afair living wage, making sure the
honeybees are kept safe andthat they're not being exposed to
pesticide, stress mites, allthe other stuff that happens in the
beekeeping industry, which iswhy we decided not to go after the
organic.
So your original question washow is organic on bottles?
There are certifying agenciesthat certify things as organic.

(16:36):
They're using agar orlivestock guidance as the honeybee
guidance.
It doesn't line up and I don'tknow why it's still on jars because
it shouldn't be, because itdoesn't fit.
If you ask the group that cameup with the program that says it
doesn't exist, but then youhave other groups that are third
parties that are chargingmoney for things, I'm uncertain.

(16:57):
So early on, we decided justto sidestep it all.
This is such a mess.
No regulatory guidance, no USdomestic sourcing at volume that
we could find.
Huge level of fraud.
The role of the honeybee.
We just decided we're going towork with UC Davis and we're going
to create regenerativestandards, our own quality standards.
And from that moment, westarted involving the industry and

(17:17):
we did a white paper with like350 different apiculture experts
and we got some million acresfor research and a lot of other things
are going into it.
It's a total mess.
So as you're doing that, howlong were you in business already
with pasta honey?
Pasta honey?
The patent work took about ayear and a half.
The supply chain standards andpractices with UC Davis took about

(17:39):
a year and a half.
And those were in parallel.
It took us another year and ahalf just to find a source that met
our standards.
And now we're at the pointwhere we're building the supply as
well as building demand.
So we're having to balanceboth sides of the equation.
So it sounds to me that therewas foresight in this specific area
of making sure that theproduct is at its highest quality,

(18:00):
that it's actually real.
Honeycomb, real honey from therip ran out of the gate.
Yeah, it seemed wrong.
It seemed totally wrong thatthis was this industry that had this
total underbelly that no oneseemed to know about or care about.
So when you decided one day,hey, honey, let's do honey honey,
when you did that, obviouslyyou already knew that there were

(18:24):
some challenges.
What else stood out?
Honest answer.
I thought I could make a quickbuck with licensing a patent.
And then you start to learnthese things and you're like, wow,
that's interesting.
And had I known everything Iknow now, then I probably wouldn't
have gone forward because Ithought, that's too much.
But lucky for me, unlucky forme, I guess it was kind of drip fed

(18:46):
to me.
And so as we progressedfurther and we saw the market opportunity
and we saw kind of thecatalyst for change and the ability
to change the conversation.
When do you get a chance toreintroduce an entire generation
to something that's beenaround for millions of years?
And the fact that childrenunder, I guess younger adults 30
and below even don't know whathoneycomb is, that's a pretty unique

(19:10):
position to be in to say here,this is what this is.
It's like introducing theavocado 20, 30 years ago.
So in a strange twist ofevents, obviously I know what honeycomb
is.
I'm not a kid either.
But because of past the honey,you know, we actually started work
on a, on a short film, shortdocumentary, and we did the trailer.

(19:34):
And then over the course of aweekend, you know, Douglas and I
had a conversation and wesaid, yeah, let's do this, let's
do this.
I said, okay.
And I started calling around,I called my cinematographer and simultaneously
I get a call from a friend ofmine and they say, hey, go try this
restaurant in Plant City.
It's called PropagationWhiskey Bar Kitchen.

(19:57):
Okay, cool.
Same day, end up going todinner, I see the bartender, which
was, you know, thisdocumentary is going to have a cocktail
element to it with the honeycomb.
Beautiful bar bartender lookedpretty cool.
So I went over and introduced myself.
Turns out he's the bar manager.
Long story short, I explainedwhat we were doing.

(20:20):
He's all in.
Twenty minutes later, ownercomes over, we're talking, he's all
in.
And I'm like, well, I justneed to find beekeepers.
He goes, wait a minute, I knowa guy.
I'm like, man, it's 10 o'clock at night, what do we know guy?
He says, come with me.
I'm like, we're in Plant City.
What are you talking about?
It's 10.
It's Plant City.
It's 10:30.
Like, what are we doing here?

(20:40):
So we end up going to a meadbar, and we get introduced to the
owner.
He used to do hives.
Well, he says, well, I don'tdo hives anymore.
I don't beekeep anymore.
But I know a guy.
I said, okay, great.
By Monday, I had met abeekeeper, and it was somewhere in
Lakeland.
Really nice guy.
And Mike, he hooks me up withhis mentor, John.

(21:05):
That's cool.
Coolest thing ever.
By Wednesday, we're shooting.
Within five days, we had the trailer.
It was like a two or threeminute trailer.
And it's badass.
And this came from you and me.
Here's the thing.
Beekeeping is out there.
It's always been there.
It's been around for centuries.
Right?

(21:25):
But it's like, under the radar.
And it's a very welcoming community.
It's very.
They understand the role theyplay in the food system.
Other people know they'reimportant, but don't know per se
as to why they're important.
And that's what we're tryingto bridge that gap, that knowledge
gap.
Why are they important?

(21:45):
I think bees pollinate onethird of our food system.
So if we want berries andalmonds and mangoes and any other
thing that looks delicious ona plate other than a root vegetable.
Are you telling me thatwithout bees we don't get mangoes?
Is that what you're saying?
It's a vast majority of fruitsand vegetables are pollinated by
bees, Honeybees in particular.

(22:06):
Obviously, I'm playing withyou a little bit, but, you know.
Yeah, I mean, it's.
It's a.
It's a huge thing.
Things get real boring without honeybee.
Real boring.
Chef over here is not going tobe jazzed about his dishes if he's
working with just a yam every day.
That's the truth.
Since we've met, Douglas, I see.

(22:26):
I see beekeepers.
You know, I'm driving.
You know, we're kind ofcountry where we're at, so I'm driving
and I'm like, oh, look, know apiary.
Oh, look, beaky.
It's pretty cool.
So I actually got to put onthe bee suit and the whole thing.
And it's.
It's really.
It's probably one of my best.
The best experiences that I've had.

(22:47):
Were you intimidated at first?
So I don't know.
I still don't know, but Iguess I'm not now.
I don't know if I'm allergicto you, you'd know.
Normally, I eat honey.
For the last five years, I eat honey.
I break out.
I just as well assume that if I.
If.
If I got stung by a.
A bee, I might have a reaction.

(23:09):
So I've always just kind ofbeen aware of that.
And every now and again, I'mlike, well, I don't care.
I like honey.
I want to have some.
And then I break out.
Miraculously, lately, I'vebeen eating honey, and it doesn't
happen.
Certainly doesn't happen withyour honeycomb.
So we go to the.
We're at the apiary, and I'mdressed up, and I'm like, okay.
I'm not scared, but I'm aware.

(23:30):
Like, okay, hyper aware.
I'm.
I'm hype.
I'm acutely aware.
Like, all right, I Hopethere's an EpiPen around.
I don't know.
I'm like, who knows?
But the bees were in good spirits.
They were not aggressive.
They were very docile that day.
And, you know, we got to.
You know, I got to actuallymove the crate around, open the.
You know, pull the.
Pull out the comb, and, youknow, we're actually dipping our

(23:52):
finger, you know, with theglove, and it has a glove on, you
know, dipping the thing in there.
And through the.
Through the net, you'retasting the honey.
My God, it was the coolestexperience I ever had.
Yeah, it really was.
Like, I've never done anythinglike that in my life.
There was an intimidationfactor, but mostly because I didn't
want the ambulance coming.
You know, I have a little bitof pride with that.
I don't want to be rolled out.

(24:12):
So, yes, congrats.
Thank you.
On being a pseudo beekeeper.
I was being a Douglas, but.
Okay, so all of that's great.
Why is it that pasta, honey.
What makes your honey anydifferent than somebody else's?
Why is your honeycomb different?
One is the format, you know,making it convenient, so eliminating

(24:35):
the need for a knife orskilled labor or portioning or, you
know, waste.
I ended up throwing half mineaway, which was really irritating.
That would be kind of thefirst and foremost, the regenerative
standards.
A company that's actuallyputting their money where their mouth
is and doing real work.
I mean, having a full 501C3behind us and a million acres for
research, a company of oursize shouldn't be able to do that.

(24:58):
But it's because we're doingreal work, working with groups like
the Culinary Institute ofAmerica, doing things like a History
of honey course for them, ahoney concentration brand partnerships
with both consumer brands,like a big spirits brand we're working
with for their gins, theirbourbons and their Proseccos as a
garnish.
Working with operators becausewe have the 501C3.

(25:20):
It's an awesome opportunity todo an LTO.
My dream is like the WaffleHouse or something or Pancake IHOP
and saying, do you want ahoneycomb on that?
A percentage of proceeds goingback to the pwning.
Research.
It's real research.
It's not just 1% for the planet.
Where does that go?
No one really knows.
Well, the fact that you'rehaving the work you're doing as part

(25:41):
of any university curriculum,I I to me.
So when we first met, that wasone of the more interesting things
because that shows it's morethan, it's different than credibility.
It's more than, than credibility.
It's, I guess it's just, it's just.
Cool to be able to say you'redoing a history of honeycores about

(26:02):
the history of AP culture andagriculture and the role of honeybees
and beekeepers in our foodsystem with the emerging chefs of,
you know, the world is aninsane opportunity.
And there's scholarships withthat, there's externships associated
with that.
We have an apiary on campusthat students get their hands dirty.
They'll do what you did.
It's just very, it's a multi.

(26:22):
Multi.
It's my lifetime, like legacy,I think me and my wife.
It's just cool.
It's just cool, period.
Yeah.
Douglas, you talk a lot aboutregeneration and I don't know that
the average person is going toreally wrap their brain around that
just because it's not part ofa, you know, vernacular for Christ
people.
What is that?
So regenerative as a term hasnot been defined.

(26:45):
It's not owned like organic.
My take is that we leave itbetter than we found it.
I want to leave beekeepers ina better position.
I want to leave the hives in abetter position.
I'll leave the regions inwhich we're harvesting in a better
position.
And honey and bees inparticular have a unique ability
to do that.
You can't say that as much asothers, perhaps.

(27:06):
So that's our take on regenerative.
Now we're also, I mentionedearlier, we're the outcomes based
camp.
There's also a practice basedcamp that kind of layers on top of
organic.
And for us, organic doesn't exist.
So that wasn't even an option.
Also, the sheer levels offraud in the honey industry kind
of just pushed us in thedirection of testing.
To your earlier question, sowhy is it that chefs like Josh are

(27:29):
important in helping consumersrediscover and reimagine honeycomb?
The chefs drive culinaryexploration, they drive trends, they
show consumers ways to useunique items.
Chefs also know what honeycomb is.
They don't have to educatethem on why it is, where it's from.
I think even above all that.

(27:52):
I.
Came from the CPG world.
It's a lot of kids with MBAslooking to make a quick buck, you
know, build it and sell ittype stuff.
And there just isn'tsubstance, there's not the majority
of those brands and thatyou're coming from a world like that
into a world of agricultureand the culinary world.
It's all steak and no sizzle.
Like there's work to be doneand we don't need to, you know, wax

(28:15):
poetic about things, butlet's, you know, let's do some good
work, let's feed some people,let's make an impact and it's authentic.
And so not only is my naturaldesire, I prefer working with people
in the agriculture industryand the culinary industry, but if
we're looking to usher in anew paradigm of honeycomb as the

(28:35):
next avocado, chefs are theonly way that's going to happen.
So working with chefs likeJosh to do a salad, the general consumer
is not going to think to puthoneycomb on a salad.
They're still in the, like,I'm going to put it on a charcuterie
board level.
I'm going to start gettinghoneycomb toasts and honeycomb on
pancakes and waffles and acaibowls and on top of steaks and on

(28:57):
cocktails.
We're a complement to other things.
Like that's our role.
We're a zhuzh, if you will, touse a culinary term.
So, yeah, working with chefsis an absolute no brainer.
And it's a group ofindividuals that I, I naturally gravitate
to how my wife's a chef or anassumed to be chef, she's in culinary

(29:19):
school.
So I want to disrespect anychefs out there while saying that,
or disrespect her for sure.
Not disrespecting, I meantlandmines at every turn with that
last one.
Josh, from a chef'sperspective, how do you follow that?
I agree 100%.
I mean, I believe that thenormal consumer is not going to go

(29:44):
to a grocery store and see Ahoneycomb and say, I'm going to go
make a salad out or I'm goingto top it on a steak with some gorgon
double cheese or no, you know.
And see what he did there.
He just used it up.
The juiced.
I used it.
So, no, I think that.
I think that getting it outthere and giving people the.

(30:06):
The knowledge and showing themhow versatile this type product can
be is super important.
So I, I can agree and, andunderstand Cole Harley, why he would
want to work with chefs in theindustry and, and get his product
out there.
And if we're taking a businesstact here, a consumer, you talk about

(30:26):
solving pain points with businesses.
The consumer doesn't have apain point.
They don't know about honey fraud.
They don't have that.
That.
That yearning to understand.
But chefs have real pain points.
They need to, you know, getbigger tickets.
They need to have things thatwork in the back of house.
They have to have things thatdon't muck up, you know, the line.
So to go to a chef and say,look, here's a $5 to $10 upsell across

(30:46):
all, all parts of your menu.
Use it as a topper, and you'regonna get five to ten dollars on
every ticket.
And no knife, no skilledlabor, and no waste at the end of
service.
It doesn't have expiration.
Those are things that a chef'sgonna light up about.
The general consumer, youknow, is a general consumer chef.
You grew up in Jacksonville.
You come from a fishing family.

(31:07):
Correct.
You love the seafood.
Love it.
You're a chef.
You have to be creative.
I know that you love toprepare fish and seafood, so something
like honeycomb would probablywork terrifically in some application.
Absolutely.
How.
Well, thank you.
That was my next pleasure.

(31:30):
Well, I think that you touchedon this earlier before that, or Douglas
touched on this earlier before.
It's a compliment to the dish mostly.
And so when I get somethinglike honey that I know is going to
be sweet, and honestly, thishoney was sweet and savory, which
was really unique.
I would get something spicy,maybe a blackened mahi mahi over

(31:53):
a, you know, some sort of nicerice beel off with a mango relish.
And in that mango relish, weincorporate his honey.
You know, just to top it offwould be amazing.
You know, I just.
Dreaming and salivating aboutsomething like that right now makes
me want to go fishing rightnow and catch a fresh mahi and make

(32:16):
a mango relish with his honey.
Did you see what he just did?
No.
No.
You have to understand Something.
This is when we have conversations.
This is what he does.
And it gets me hopped up.
I am a mirror to the peoplewho I'm with.
So if the three of you wereduds, I'm gonna dud out too.

(32:36):
When the energy is there andhe's coming to me like, you know,
like, we spoke.
Yeah.
I said, well.
He said, look, well, who's.
Who's the guest?
What's it gonna be?
What are we cooking?
Whatever.
And I start giving him data points.
I wasn't qualifying you, chef.
He started rattling off allsorts of amazing sounding dishes.
He threw so many at me, andhe's like, well, what do you think?

(32:59):
And I'm like, I can't processwhat you're doing.
What you just said to me.
I can't even do it.
Will it pull you off track forthis podcast if we explore his creative
brain?
I mentioned it earlier, andyou said that we could talk about
it.
It's now that time.
It is absolutely that time.
This man is an avid fisherman,a tournament fisherman.

(33:22):
And when he gets to go out,and I don't want to speak for you,
but when he goes out on theboat, he gets to clear his head.
He gets to talk about regeneration.
This guy does that, and hecomes back with this fire, and that's
what I really appreciate.
So there's a lot of chefs thatwe deal with, and everybody has their

(33:43):
superpowers.
That is this man's superpower.
And he's fast.
He's quick on the draw withthe creativity.
Thank you, Carl.
You're welcome.
So, chef.
Yes, Doug?
You just rift on a dish that Inever, ever would have thought of.
And we work with a lot ofpeople on developing recipes, and
no one else has come up with that.

(34:03):
And you came up with it in 30seconds flat.
So when you're.
When someone gives you a heroingredient, in this case honeycomb,
where's the first place yourbrain goes?
Like, if you have a rubric ofbuilding a dish, do you start with
the flavor profiles?
Do you start with texture?
Do you start with presentation?
Like, where do you.
How do you navigate coming toa finished dish?
All the above.

(34:24):
You know, definitely.
You know, texture, you know,flavor profiles, you know, understanding
where the product's comingfrom, you know, and.
And you just.
You start thinking about, youknow, as a chef, you start thinking
about a million different waysthat you can incorporate this product
into a dish.
And, you know, that's.

(34:46):
That's what I do.
I just.
I don't know, man.
I. I think.
How'd you Land on a salad, ofall things.
Well, what I was thinkingabout was cheese nuts, you know,
because when you think honey,like we talked about earlier, the.
The.
The safe bet and the quicksuggestion everybody else.

(35:06):
Else has is charcuterie.
Yeah.
You know, and so you startthinking about certain components
on charcuterie board.
And, you know, I. I was like.
Well, what about a salad?
You know?
And what really inspired mewas when we were talking about the
bees, I thought flowers right away.
And so when I was creating thedish in my head, which I do a lot,

(35:28):
I started thinking, how can wemake this look like a flower on the
plate?
And so colorful, you know, soroot vegetables, the frise, lettuce,
citrus from here in the stateof Florida, you know, and so I started
putting all those componentstogether in my head, and.
And I dreamed of putting thathoneycomb right on top of that.
Realistically, it's the centerof the flower, and that's what I

(35:51):
wanted it to be was the centerof the flower.
The center of the dish was thehoneycomb, because it's the center
of the flower.
Josh, when you told me one ofthe dishes was a salad, now, I trust
you.
It isn't like we've never met before.
It's not like I haven't hadyour food.
But when you told me a salad,I was a little deflated at first.

(36:15):
The truth.
It's the truth.
I'm like, oh, man.
Pulling no punches today.
I was like, man, this is.
But I said, wait a minute.
This is not like.
This isn't some Cracker Jack,Chef, whatever.
This is Josh, I know he'sgoing to be creative with this.
So I just said, well, tell methe ingredients.
And he starts running down theingredients list.

(36:36):
And I'm like, okay, wait, thissounds really interesting.
And then he finished it with Carl.
It's gonna be in the shape ofa flower.
Boom.
I already.
Yeah, I already knew that hewas in another level with this.
You know, he went matrix on it.
And I was like, all right, cool.
Sounds awesome.

(36:56):
He nailed it.
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate that.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's thebee, it's the pollinator.
It's the.
You know, about the flowers,you know, and so that's what I was
thinking.
And then he says to me, hesays, well, well, you know, Carl,
the other dish, it's kind oflike, I don't know.
I know it's played out, andit's like an old, old school.
But I was like, don't say that.

(37:18):
What are you talking about?
He's like, well, I want to.
I want to do the Wellington,but with the lamb.
With the Aussie select lamb, Igo, that's brilliant.
You're taking a classic andyou're doing something that.
Honestly, I don't know thatI've ever seen anyone take a cured
lamb loin and used for a Wellington.

(37:41):
That's crazy.
So originally when he saysthat, I said, okay, I'm okay with
that.
But then when he startsdescribing it, and.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, man, theseare both going to be.
The whole is greater than theparts, or.
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's.
For sure.
I'm tying it to a flower.
Is.
That's.
No pun intended.
The chef's kiss.
Yeah, that is the.

(38:02):
Our honeycomb is the flavor.
That's what flowers taste like.
It's where it comes from.
If we don't touch it.
It's.
It boggles my mind that a beepollinated tens of thousands of flowers
for that one bite ofhoneycomb, and nothing's touched
it till it hits your tongue.
But we just cut it from the hive.
You asked questions earlier,you know, like, is this just Kaya?
It's cut and packed.
No processing B makes it.

(38:24):
And as a chef, we.
We can appreciate that.
You know, the.
To get food is not so processed.
It's fresh.
And this is.
You know, Carl and I were talking.
This is why I really embracefishing and love fishing and have
my whole life, because I knowwhere I'm sourcing my food from.
I know what else you can get.
Families, bellies, you know,to go offshore 20, 30 miles and bring

(38:45):
back a species that'sindigenous to the state of Florida
and come home and cook itmyself and prepare it myself.
There's nothing better than that.
You know, you can't go to agrocery store and take that piece
of salmon or that piece ofgrouper out of the display there
and take it home and know thatthat fish was two, three days old.
I mean, that these boats goout for eight to 12 days sometimes.

(39:09):
And you don't know if thatfish was called seven days ago, eight
days ago, and then how longwas it to process it, you know, so
that.
Connection to, like, theorigin is clutch.
So knowing that that.
That honeycomb that we cookedwith today was not processed at all.
You know, we talked about howit wasn't heated.

(39:30):
It wasn't.
There was nothing done to it.
It was put in a package,sealed, and delivered to my hand.
That's.
I mean, when you eat it, youthink about that, and it just makes
it taste that Much better.
That is a.
And I'm curious from aculinary perspective, when you're
serving guests, diners,guests, whatever.
I've never seen anybodyinteract with a garnish like they

(39:52):
do with honeycomb.
And it's a lot of that, like,want to talk about educating and
engaging consumers and guests.
For a wait staff to say, wouldyou like a honeycomb on that?
What is a honeycomb?
Might come up, which gives you that.
That little door opens up.
Right.
To educate.
When they're tasting it, thetaste is different.
Well, that's a regenerative honeycomb.

(40:13):
That is the true taste of honey.
What you're getting in thestore may or may not be that level
of interaction.
Tableside is, I think, lost alot, 1,000%.
So if we can play a role withchefs to reengage the consumer, the
guest, the diner in somethingthat they may not have seen, if they're
an older generation, they'llstart telling you stories of their

(40:35):
youth.
It's bizarre.
Oh, my neighbor had one.
I was a kid, and all of asudden the kid's storytelling comes
up.
And I've watched a grandmotherand a granddaughter in a coffee shop
buy one, and the granddaughterhad no clue what it was.
And the grandma startedtelling the stories of their youth.
And the grandeur asks thequestions that most young kids ask,
what is it?
What do you do with it?
Can you eat it?
How do you get the honey in there?
But it was mind boggling tosee those just drastically different

(40:58):
experiences with those thatage demographic.
And we get asked, who's your demographic?
It's like, well, who's thedemographic for a banana?
I don't know.
We're a commodity.
And what are the uses for a banana?
Well, they're pretty limitless.
Same with honeycomb.
You can use it with fish.
You can use it on a salad, youcan use it on a cocktail.
We haven't seen an end insight, which is so weird.
It breaks everything I'veknown about business and cpg.

(41:21):
Just talk about quality.
Yeah.
Talk about how you, how youpay your producers.
Talk about your impact on theearth and the ecosystem.
Draw the consumer into thatstory somehow, some way.
I agree.
Chef, you've studiedcommercial fishing in high school.
That's not typical.
I don't even heard of anythinglike that before.

(41:42):
Talk a little bit about thatand how that kind of breadcrumbed
your way into your chef life.
Yeah.
So it's not very typical andpretty much unheard of.
I started my ninth grade yearof high school in Jacksonville at
Fletcher And I remember myteacher coming in and putting a pamphlet

(42:03):
down on the table and tellingeverybody, hey, this is an OJT program
on job training.
You can go and be a plumber,electrician, things of that nature.
The pamphlet, I'm like, I'mnot doing any of that.
And I flipped it upside downand threw it on the table.
On the very back, it said,commercial fishing.
And I, of course, it peaked my interest.
I was already fisherman, grewup fishing with my father.
And I picked up the pamphletand asked teacher, I said, is this

(42:28):
real?
And she said, yes.
So I took the opportunity, andI was bused my 9th and 10th grade
year to Marine Science centerin Mayport in Jacksonville.
And we Learned.
And then 11, 12th grade year,I drove there myself.
But we learned commercialvision and.
And we learned about boats andmotors and the ocean and how to preserve

(42:53):
the ocean.
We learned all about fish anddifferent types of fish and how to
clean fish and how to utilizeevery part of the fish.
It was really cool.
But I started working on dayboats while I was out there.
So my 11th and 12th grade yearin the summer, I worked on head boats
and day boats.
And it was as a young man, Iwas making money.

(43:16):
I was out with a lot of.
People catching lots of fish,and I was in the ocean every day.
And that just was an amazing experience.
Your question was, how didthat get me into the chef world?
I really enjoyed the fish.
I enjoyed, you know, cominghome and creating dishes.
I was already working inrestaurants part time as well, and

(43:40):
I worked at one particularrestaurant at the beach RPs, and
I worked with some reallytalented cooks slash chefs.
And it was all about seafood.
The quality of the seafoodthere was bar none.
It was amazing to see somebodytake a piece of Gruber and cut it
a certain way and make ittaste so amazing on a sandwich, or

(44:04):
to take crab and stuff it andbake it with a little breadcrumb
on top and to taste thatflavor profile was just.
I mean, my mind was blown.
And I was 17, 18 years old,you know, and so I kind of really
started getting into it.
And, you know, as I told youbefore, I was really into food when
I was younger, for mygrandparents, you know, always cooking

(44:25):
in the kitchen, and theneverything was from scratch, you
know, so to.
To be involved in thatenvironment at such an early age,
I knew that that was my passion.
It was my love, and I wasgoing to do something with it in
my life, and here I am.
If we had more programs like that.
Now, I think we'd have a wholedifferent generation of people.

(44:47):
A thousand percent.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Know, and I, I feel I've gota, a daughter in, in high school
right now.
And it's, you know, it's someof the things I hear, some of the
things I see.
It's, you know, I mean,because let's face it, back in the
day, we didn't have technology.
That distraction we just had today.

(45:07):
You know, there was no cellphone, there was no, you know, TV
show that you ran home to watch.
It was, you were Outdoor Talkto us.
What's the biggest challengein helping people to better understand
what honey is?
Where it comes from?
Honeycomb.
I think that one of the biggerchallenges is the honey industry
as a whole has been pusheddown so hard on the price that the

(45:33):
perception is that honey ischeap and should be free.
And I say that because when weshow up with real price of honey
that's harvested properly,it's more expensive.
And certain consumers, Iwouldn't say all by any means, but
certain consumers think, well,why would I spend that much on a

(45:56):
honeycomb?
What is it?
What do I do with it?
It's like those two, likeunawareness of the category.
The price difference from a 3cent an ounce liquid honey and a
teddy bear and us is drastic.
But you're also not buyinghoneycomb as a sweetener.
You're buying it as a snack ora garnish.
And so that shift is whatwe're navigating right now.

(46:17):
So when you talk aboutchallenges, it is the challenge that
is it honey or is it honeycomb?
Are they one and the same?
I don't know.
I believe honeycomb isdistinctly different than liquid
honey because liquid honey hasa process to get in the jar.
And where it loses nutritionalbenefits, it also has the ability
for more fraud to enter the equation.

(46:37):
Honeycomb cannot be heated,cannot be blended.
It'll break it.
So like that singularity aloneis what allows us to have that different
conversation.
But it's still that.
Is it honey, is it comb?
What do you do with it?
That's the difficulty is justdelineating what it even is.

(46:58):
The fact that they'll open atomb in Egypt and they'll find a
jar of 3,000 year old honeyand it's still good.
That should be the biggest eyeopener in the history of anything
with food about how importantit is to have such a product and

(47:23):
to actually have beekeepers,to actually have apiaries, to actually
put effort into universitiesand curriculum.
I don't know if there'sanything else food wise that can
do that?
I don't either.
That's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
But then, you know, we talkabout in the culinary world challenge

(47:46):
there is that a lot of chefs,when they first see the comb and
Chef Josh, I'd love to getyour perspective when you first see
it, they start thinking menucost or meal costs.
We're going to break a mealcost pretty quickly, depending on
where you're at.
I mean, most places they don'tthink of it as an upsell or a garnish.
The would you like a honeycombon that?

(48:07):
And I mentioned it earlier,the avocado is kind of a template
for us.
The avocado was funky to eat.
They went bad quickly.
You almost cut yourself openin the thing and it was maybe four
bucks for a slice on a taco 20years ago.
And now it's honeycomb toast world.
So getting chefs to thinkdifferently about the ingredient
and like, hey, this isn'tsomething you want to tuck into the

(48:29):
meal cost.
It's something you want tooffer your guest as a point of engagement,
a point of theater and apremium positioning.
Some of the consumer researchwe did early, early on was mind boggling
that it was 65 and older,Midwest rural was our primary customer.
I would have told you all day,every day up until that point.
It was going to be millennialmoms on the coasts.

(48:51):
Wasn't the case.
There was a remembrance oftheir childhood, the memory of a
nostalgia play.
We had a cost conscious motherthat was coming up, like statistically
relevant in the data that,well, cost conscious at 699 to 999
retail does not.
I wouldn't have thought thosewords would come up.
But what we found when we dugdeeper was that they were using it
to put on toast and breakfastwas exciting.

(49:13):
They'd put the honeycomb on atoaster waffle and the kids would
go crazy about it for breakfast.
That's the kind of thing thatI think has applicability in the
food service world is you cantake a very low cost dish like the
salad chef.
It wasn't a ton of priceyingredients in that thing.
You add the honeycomb and allof a sudden you're not only getting

(49:34):
the premium on the saladitself, but you're also getting this
kind of extra level of thispremium garnish, this elevated garnish
that drives the price evenfurther and the customer doesn't
bat an eye at it.
And that's where we're tryingto navigate with Chefs is like, look,
think of it as a tool in yourtoolkit and not something that's
going to break the bank.
I think there's going to be aprocess to get the average chef to

(49:57):
understand or have a desire tounderstand about this.
It's going to take time toeducate the culinary community because
they're beaten over the headon food costs 100%.
That's the first part.
The second part is honeycomb.
Even I'm not a young guy andI'm not an old guy, but I'm pretty,

(50:22):
you know, over middle aged atthis point.
I don't know that I've everhad honeycomb before.
I can't remember.
I know what it is.
I've seen it.
I don't think I ever had ituntil now.
And what was funny for me, youknow, because I, you know, you sent
me samples, I tried.
I was like, wow, this isreally good.
What do I do with this waxy part?

(50:44):
And I had this conversationwith Mike and John where we shot
the documentary.
And John says, you eat it, man.
He goes, you just eat it.
It comes out.
Don't worry.
Go ahead.
It was something different for me.
It was completely off the wallfor me.

(51:05):
But now I understand, numberone, it really is healthy.
And it isn't somethingprocessed and it's not something
like, you know, some of thesebig, you know, candy companies where
all of what they're doing inour sweets and in the things that
we're consuming in ourbeverages and all that stuff where
it's terrible for you.
This is something completely different.

(51:27):
And guess what?
I pay for extra avocado.
I pay for extra bacon.
I pay for extra sides.
Why the hell wouldn't I wantto pay a little bit extra for honeycomb?
Yeah, that.
It's not like we can make honeycomb.
People pull out their phones,take pictures on a comb.
They don't pull out theirphones, take pictures of avocados
and raspberries.

(51:47):
Well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
We do that.
We do that.
But when you're.
But yes, an average consumer,the average.
Diner, honeycomb in and ofitself is super cool.
So people who actually areinto photography, right.
Pop a clutch here, switch a gear.
People who are intophotography and they look at textures

(52:07):
and they look at the colorsand they look at how lighting affects
all of that.
Honeycomb is where it's at.
Like, it's, it's such a cool thing.
You know, John, when youshoot, when you've been shooting
a little bit, you know, thishoneycomb recently, when the Light
hits.
Makes for a beautiful photo.
It reminds me of the caviar wedid a few weeks ago with Parker.

(52:33):
The light hits it and it hasthis like glow and you see the color
spectrum.
But then you have to know thatthat came from a little bee.
I mean, thousands of bees.
Yeah, tens of thousands.
But it's a.
But it's a bee.
Made we a human.
We can't make that.
Can't.
I don't know.
People try.

(52:53):
True story.
And then.
And that's what you end upwith, you know, in some of these
cutesy little bottled products.
I'm curious when you'recreating a menu or a meal and you're
considering all the things yougot to do, meal costs, you know,
head counts, things like that,how much do things like theater,

(53:13):
engagement, and like noveltyand newness come into the equation?
Every component of the dish,I'm in 100% on it.
I think about the rice that'sgoing on the dish.
I think about the vegetablethat's going on the dish.
I think about the proteinthat's going on the dish and how
I'm going to garnish it.
What's the garnish going tobe, you know, and depending on who
my consumer is, depending onwhere I'm at, depicts whether or

(53:36):
not, you know, I can use thishigh end product or this high end
product or the environmentthat I'm in now I'm price conscious,
you know, and so I got to.
I got to consider everycomponent that goes on the dish.
No, and that's where it'slike, I'm still learning the culinary
world, right?
Like what goes into earningour spot on the menu?

(53:57):
Like, what does the chef care about?
Obviously cost is going to behigh on that care list.
The next thing down might bethe way it looks.
We score high on that.
The next might be aregenerative thing.
Depending on who they.
If it's sweet green, they maycare more about than others.
That, like, first time iswhere I'm like, it's one that we
can't measure.
Which is kind of where I'mcurious is where did that fall in,

(54:18):
like in the hopper of creativity.
Food service sales, foodservice applications, products, establishments,
all of that, they playtogether in a very unique way.
And it all depends upon thechef, how long they've been in this
game.
It depends on the type ofestablishment, whether it's a bodega

(54:42):
versus some elevated Michelinrestaurant and everything in between
versus a cafeteria at a corporation.
There's so many different things.
A senior living facility wheremaybe they might be food forward,
but they still have to have a boundary.
So at the end of the day,every chef who works in the different

(55:05):
segments of the food industryhave different challenges that they
have to, you know, tackle ordeal with.
Dollars are always theelephant in the room.
No matter where you are,unless you're charging $90 a plate
or $80 a plate or something,everybody else has to be in a special

(55:27):
sandbox.
So as creative as he wants tobe or anybody else, it changes the
whole fabric.
I can't tell you how manytimes I've gone into a kitchen and
I have some really interestingproduct, whatever it is, and I say,
what do you think about this?
And they look at it, and youcan see.

(55:47):
You can see the disappointmentin their face because they want it.
They can't even entertain it.
And it turns into.
That looks great, man.
Just don't even tell me aboutit, because I can't.
I can't even.
I can't.
How much is that XYZ price?
Yeah, I can't just.
I don't want to see thatbecause they can't Their hands are

(56:10):
tied.
So it matters on how it'spresented to them.
If they're in a place that youcan upcharge and you can upsell and
you can say, hey, this isn'tpart of your food cost.
This is something.
It's like a gravy.
Everything is a la carte.
I'm paying extra for mashedpotatoes if I want it on my plate.

(56:32):
Okay, well, you know what?
I want extra bacon.
I'm paying for that.
Well, you want Honey Club, I'mgoing to pay for that.
So it shouldn't be reallyattached to your food cost.
That should be.
That should be on the.
On the periphery there.
Light draw.
Thank you.
Very well said.
And that goes back to yoursandbox comment.
Like, that's the sandbox.
Every chef has to work with it.
Correct.

(56:52):
And that's the consumer.
It's a matter of where you're at.
I know you're in a fine dining restaurant.
You have a lot more to play with.
So what's a fish that's goingto actually go well with this honeycomb?
I would go ahead and say wahoo.
And I would do a raw wahoowith, like, a sesame honey ginger
dressing and go over it.
Nailed it.
Wow.
A raw wahoo.

(57:13):
I'd take that all day becauseof the raw honey.
You take the raw fish and the.
Raw honey, and you marry them together.
It's the bee's knees, brother.
Talk about Mic drop.
Okay.
Wow.
Listen, you guys are freaking amazing.
Appreciate you both coming out.
How do we find you?
Douglas LinkedIn.
Douglas Raggio, chef, LifeForever, 1975.

(57:36):
Oh, yeah.
Gen X in the house.
Listen, everybody, keep yourears open.
Stay tuned for Pass the Honey podcast.
That is.
That is coming to a Be nearyou, beehive near you.
And check out HospitalityBites with Colleen Silk.
She's awesome.
The show is awesome.

(57:57):
And that is, of course, nowhoused under the Walk and Talk media
umbrella.
People, watch out, becausewe're coming.
We.
We are coming.
John, as always, you did great.
And, you know, well, you know,it's nice.
We.