July 13, 2026 • 63 mins
What happens to your personal brand when AI can write it better — and faster — than you can?
In Episode 1 of AI for the C-Suite, I sat down with Elizabeth Rosenberg, founder of The Good Advice Company and former Global Communications lead for Apple's creative agency and 72andSunny, to dig into one of the most pressing questions for senior leaders right now: how do you stay unmistakably you in a world where AI is flattening every voice into the same optimized, agreeable, forgettable noise?
We covered a lot of ground — here are a few things that stuck with me:
🔹 AI is building brands where everyone sounds like each other. The posts that break through right now are the ones that say what everyone's thinking but nobody is posting.
🔹 The old playbook for executive brand-building doesn't work anymore. Vulnerability and authentic storytelling aren't optional extras — they're the thing.
🔹 AI will tell founders their plan is brilliant and they're going to the Today Show. A good strategist will tell them the truth.
🔹 Crisis comms has never mattered more — and the lag between the news cycle and LLM crawls is a contradiction nobody's solved yet.
🔹 Intuitive intelligence, EQ, and critical thinking are the skills that will define the next generation of leaders. We need to start teaching them now.
Elizabeth is equal parts strategist and straight talker, and this conversation went places I didn't expect. Worth your time.
Watch Here: https://youtu.be/Fg6-qQAYMOg
🌐 The Good Advice Company: https://www.thegoodadvicecompany.com
🔗 Elizabeth Rosenberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethrosenberg
🌐 AI for the C-Suite: https://www.aiforthecsuite.com
🌐 Chad Harvey: https://www.chadharvey.com
🔗 Chad Harvey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadcharvey
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Two.
um
I'm Chad Harvey, and this is AI for the C-Suite, the show for senior leaders who know AImatters and need to figure out what to do about it.
Each episode we dig into what it all actually means for middle market organizations, howit's changing decisions, strategy, leadership, and the nature of work.
(00:22):
Let's get into it.
My guest today has spent more than two decades shaping how some of the world's mostrecognizable brands and leaders show up in public.
She ran Global Communications for Apple's Creative Agency and for 72 and Sunny beforefounding the Good Advice Company, where she now helps C suite leaders build personal
(00:42):
brands that actually sound like them.
Elizabeth Rosenberg has a take you need to hear.
In an age where AI can optimize your LinkedIn, write your bio, and even mimic your voice,the leaders who win aren't the ones who post the most.
They're the ones who stay unmistakably human.
She's Equal Parts strategist and straight talker with a healthy skepticism about handingyour story over to a machine.
(01:07):
We're going to get into what a personal brand even means now, how to use AI withoutdisappearing into it, and why the most human thing you do might be your biggest
competitive advantage.
Elizabeth Rosenberg, welcome to AI for the C Suite.
Thank you so much for having me.
I think that was one of my favorite intros ever.
So thank you.
I love it when people tell me good things.
(01:29):
All right.
We're gonna have some fun today.
Um and let's start with some foundational stuff.
It's twenty twenty six.
What actually makes up a personal brand these days for an exec?
And what's genuinely changed now that AI is in the mix versus just noise, right?
Because there's a lot of that out there.
I think we all need to take into consideration that we all have a personal brand, whetheryou've like made a conscious effort to build it or not.
(01:55):
So, what your personal brand is, is what and how people are talking about you when you'renot in the room.
That's what I like to think about, think of it as.
What's happening now is people are going to AI to help build their brands.
And AI is just so agreeable and and also wants us to.
I don't really think like stand out authentically, but really kind of like show up howsociety wants us to show up.
(02:21):
So what I'm finding is that AI is building brands where everyone sounds like each other.
And the thing that is really obvious it's making v it's I think the results of this arewhat AI looks like on LinkedIn right now, right?
It's like there's so many posts that sound the same that have that pregnant pause that arelike, this is the lesson that I learned.
(02:44):
Um, and then you're also seeing a lot of people that are now posting, I get rid of the AIslop, everyone sounding the same, I don't like it here anymore.
So we're definitely at a crossroads of what that looks like and I think what the future ofeveryone's brand is gonna like.
So let let me dig in on something that you just surfaced there because one of the thingsthat I find when I work with execs, and I don't work with them on personal brand, but I I
(03:08):
do oftentimes um get a lot of questions from folks about their voice um and how to avoidthis homogenization factor that you're you're talking about.
One of the things I find quite frequently is they just expect the AI, whatever the systemis, to understand who they are and to channel their voice without any other homework.
(03:29):
And I I feel like when we're talking about personal brand or we're talking about tone orvoice, a lot of it just comes down to doing your homework and giving context to a lot of
these systems if you're going to turn over some of the writing and some of the voice tothem.
So I'm interested in your perspective, how much of it is giving context and seeding thatuh in the AI so that it can channel and better understand who the individual is, versus
(03:52):
whoa, we just need to put up a wall here and really lean into the human side.
Think there's a little bit of both because I've I've practiced both too.
I have a Google Doc that has every one of my LinkedIn posts since 2019 on it.
The drafts that I have, and and obviously in 2019 and 2020, AI was not writing my post forme, right?
(04:14):
It still isn't, to be fair.
My my LinkedIn, when you go to it, says all comments and all posts are written by me.
And it's very important for me for that people understand that.
But even if I upload all of that into a Claude and all of that into a ChatGPT and say, canyou write a post about blank blank blank?
It's for LinkedIn.
I wanted to include this, these are lessons I learned.
(04:36):
It is still never going to give me a hundred percent of what my voice is, right?
Because your voice evolves, your voice changes, your voice is contextual, you haveintellectual knowledge of what's going on at any moment and any time.
And the thing about LinkedIn is that it is thought leadership that is happening in themoment.
Mm-hmm.
do have to be very aware of how we are talking about things that's that's also connectingwith culture, right?
(05:00):
Or connecting with something that is that is happening in real time.
So I actually think it's less about training AI for your voice and more about prompting AIand having kind of I I think systems and and your settings in place that say what not to
do.
So don't change my voice for this.
(05:21):
I want you to push back and is this going to be AI optimized?
Um, is this something that is gonna resonate with my audience?
Is this like, can you give me grammatical information as to like how this could better be,I think, written in a way that is going to be read best versus changing all of my words?
Like mine literally says, like, do not change the the tone nor the idea of the post, butgrammatically, is there anything in here that's not making sense or is this optimized for?
(05:50):
For what will work both best for the platform, whether that's Substack, whether that'sMedium, whether that's LinkedIn or anything, right?
Um, but a lot of the time it will still override that.
It's wild.
I'll go and I'm like, I did not ask you to rewrite my post.
I don't want you to.
Just I need you to tell me, I want you to tell me exactly what I asked for.
And then it's always like, my bad.
(06:12):
You know, like you're right, you didn't ask for this.
So I do think as we are.
Using AI as a writing partner, I think we need to be very clear of where our human voiceis going to stand out.
And I'm just noticing too, the the personal brands that are thriving right now are theones that have the more human perspective and the more human writing and and say things
(06:37):
that AI wouldn't say, you know?
Well, and you you surfaced something else I think that's really important.
You talked about the evolution of a brand and the evolution of a voice.
And one of the things I wonder is whether we're gonna start to see voices stagnate, notjust be homogenized, but stagnate and not evolve because of an over reliance on the tech.
(06:58):
uh a gazillion percent, yes.
Because I think what we're seeing is that people are are s really starting to to questiontheir own trust in themselves and their writing.
Like we Chat and Claude said that this wasn't right.
Gemini is pushing back and says it's not right.
I know that this is right.
I have twenty-five years of experience doing this, but am I not doing this right?
(07:20):
Is you know what I mean?
Like and and I think this is where we need to actually
And I'm sure we're gonna talk about this, but this is where we need to start reallylistening to our own gut and our own in intuition as to what feels right and what doesn't.
And I have found that kind of the more unhinged I am and the more honest and the moreauthentic and the more I'm like, I'm just gonna say what everyone's thinking and nobody
(07:42):
else is actually posting, those are the posts that always get the most traction.
I know that I have a privilege of being able to do that because I own my own company.
Right.
So as a PR person, I'm also like, I don't want an employee off doing that.
Yeah, right.
Please be careful.
Um but I but I do think that that the the unabashed and that like kind of like outlandishand unhinged voice is the one that's actually gonna s to stand out right now.
(08:11):
Yeah.
I I completely agree with that.
And I I'll be interested in I I wasn't thinking about this question.
Um, so totally going off script already.
but one of the things that I've started to do when I write an article now is I willactually feed it back into AI and I will ask it to do some deep research.
Sometimes it takes twenty, thirty minutes, to see whether the themes that I'm surfacingare themes that are already being circulated out there in the wider world and what in my
(08:38):
piece or what in uh I have put together.
is unique.
And sometimes what I now find I'm doing is I'm stripping out two thirds of what I wroteand focusing on what it's identified as a unique piece that's not being replicated by
other voices or other AIs out there.
And then kind of cr using that as a lever to to go even more, like you said, to be a bitmore unhinged.
(08:59):
Yeah.
I mean, you're gonna have to follow the data and see if that's serving you.
Because my pushback on that would be even if somebody else is talking about this othertheme, your take on it is still the interesting thing that people need to hear about.
Right?
So it's like there was a time where everybody was talking about, you know, move fast andbreak things.
(09:19):
I'm sure we're gonna get back to that because we're breaking things in a knock right wayright now.
but
Everybody was talking about it, but everybody had a different perspective on it.
So it is one of those things too.
Is if everyone's talking about it, is it actually going to get you back into the algorithmin a better way because it is something that is actually um circulating, right?
(09:42):
So I I it'll be very interesting to see if the data is a proof point on that.
I mean, I I know that I'm talking about intuition and intuitive intelligence and the useof AI.
I'm not the only one talking about it, but I do feel like
my my opinion is unique in that sense too and and my my knowledge of you know twenty fiveyears of marketing communications and then also you know leaning into that intuitive side
(10:06):
of me is is really aiding that um that point of that point of view.
Yeah.
Well and and so let's talk a little bit more about this idea of unique and and where uh aunique brand starts from, because I I think there's a lot of misunderstanding out there
with leaders, probably less so with younger leaders, more so with uh older Gen X andwhatnot, about what their brand even is and where they start with this.
(10:33):
So what what does make up a a unique brand from a personal perspective in your vo in yourview?
The number one thing is a relatable story.
So as we've gotten older, our resumes are all starting to look very similar.
Right?
Like you've all, we've all been at either, like, especially the, I'm sure the people thatare listening to this, we've all been at like the same kind of companies.
(10:57):
We all kind of had a very similar trajectory.
The s human story that has then given you insight and I think wisdom to lead the way thatyou do or to.
on be a you know start a new entrepreneur like be an entrepreneur or start a new businessor innovate in the way that you do that's the thing that's interesting so when I work with
(11:21):
executives so much of the time they're telling me their story and they're like well I wantto talk about creativity, innovation, and you know leadership.
And I'm like, no one cares what you have to say about any of those things.
Like everyone else is talking about those things.
Nothing is interesting.
But
In the middle of your, you know, of your career, you had a parent who passed who you werecaretaking for, you became sober, and you moved across the country.
(11:49):
Okay, well, those are things that are actually interesting that are giving such depth toyour human story and life experience that has then made you the leader that you are today.
And those are the type of people that then want to work for you.
Cause it's like you've also been a caretaker, like that.
That leads to a lot of the personality of who I'm looking for in a mentor.
(12:11):
Or you're also sober, I'm also sober.
This is leading to a space of safety where I can actually feel like I can learn and grow.
So I think that we those soft skills and those life skills and those personality traitsare actually so important to who we are and are going to be significantly more important
as I think AI takes a larger role in our lives, especially in the corporate world.
(12:37):
The examples that you just gave there really cut in my mind directly to the idea ofvulnerability.
And I mean, basically what you just yeah, that's what you just said.
So I that is very contrary to the world that I grew up in 30 years ago professionally.
And I recognize there's been a sea change here.
And, you know, I I've got a foot in kind of both generational camps, as it were, but thatis a really difficult thing to get past for a lot of people.
(13:05):
It is, but I also think it's a thing that's gonna cut through.
So I mean, as it it is, especially when I'm working with people, they're like, well, Idon't want to talk about that.
I'm like, okay, well, we can keep of we can always work with what you want to talk about.
But it depends on what your end goal is, right?
Like, I don't think everybody needs to be on a stage.
I don't think everybody needs to be a thought leader.
(13:27):
But I do think that when people have a unique opinion and an and unique story, the rightpeople are gonna hear it when they need to.
And then the ripple effect of that is gonna be the impact that you leave on the world.
Right.
One person hears me say, if I talk about my recovery journey, that is going to, you know,help me in my corporate world and starts talking about the recovery story.
(13:50):
And then they get another person to get into recovery, job done.
You know?
And I think that we think too big when we need to start thinking a little smaller.
I I completely agree.
I think the one thing that I wrestle with a lot when we're talking about this and f makingsure that we've got a uh an authentic story out there that resonates with the right person
(14:13):
at the right time is it just feels so crowded.
Uh even LinkedIn, it just seems like a saturated platform and it's like, What do I gottado to break through?
Yeah.
I I don't know if LinkedIn is for everyone.
I don't think that everybody needs to be a content creator.
I mean, I say this all the time.
It's like I I I don't want to be making videos and making content all the time.
(14:36):
Like that that isn't good for my soul, right?
But I love to write.
So if I can share some of that, I that makes me happy.
When it comes to LinkedIn, if if creating isn't your thing, right?
And that's not that's not what you want to do.
Engaging is the best possible thing for you.
(14:56):
A comment here, a comment there.
If that's not your jam, go to events.
And I think your your brand is going to come out naturally with the people that you'rearound.
And I I do think we just even even six years after the pandemic, we need more humanconnection.
I mean, if you just look at like, you know, the Knicks parade, it was like
(15:19):
the the energy and just like and even the World Cup, it's just like people being out andjust like the the hospitable nature of people when we get the chance to like I think bond
around something that is exciting is really, really lovely and something that we need moreof.
Um and even if that's not your thing, if you're an introvert, I always just tell myclients like, even if you want to be home all the time, totally fine.
(15:44):
Say try saying yes to one thing a month.
Just one.
And it can be a networking event, it could be a pottery class, it could be pickleball,whatever it is.
Just get out because I think that human connection, whether it is in work or outside ofwork, is still building your brand in a great way.
So let's let's talk a little bit about how you build your brand, but let's talk about itfirst from the perspective of what not to do, because I know you spend a lot of time uh
(16:13):
with clients telling them what not to do and why that plan they got from Chat GPT orClaude is overly optimistic or unrealistic or just plain wrong.
So let's talk about what that looks like.
And we we've kind of touched on this, but I want to go a little bit deeper in in terms ofhow execs misuse AI for their brand.
(16:34):
The w the what not to do first is to be a thought leader on everything.
Just because you're a thought leader does not mean we need your point of view oneverything.
And I think often that's our default.
It's like, well, this is what's going on in the world.
I need to be commenting on this.
When I help people build brands, I I bucket them into professional, personal passion.
(16:57):
And I make the buckets pretty big.
So you can you have some play, you know, area to work with.
But once you nail down those, don't veer.
They can evolve too, but they don't really change, right?
It's kind of like your institutional knowledge and the things that you're excited about.
Um the other thing when it comes to your personal brand is don't change it because someonedoesn't like it.
(17:24):
I think a lot of the time people would be like, Well, I was talking about this and I gotreally bad feedback from like four people.
And I'm like, okay, well, then those, then your brand is not for those four people.
Mm-hmm.
you don't have to be everything to everyone.
It's just not gonna work.
And then also, especially with executives, we don't need your political opinion on everyon everything.
(17:47):
Unless that is part of your value state, like value statement and mission statement withinyour company.
And that is something that you're actually driven to do.
And or it's a personal like passion project of yours.
But it it makes things very, very hard.
Because once you comment on something, everybody wants your comments on everything.
And um, your PR person's just gonna be in a world of a world of heart.
(18:09):
Um, but when it comes to AI and AI's optimism, I mean, the amount of founders who havesent me PR plans that have been written on ChatGBT and that are like, this is such an
amazing idea.
You are gonna launch this on the Today show, and it is gonna be great.
And I will I've actually reached out and been like,
Hi, did you like, where'd you get this this plan?
(18:29):
Like what this is a very this is a very optimistic and aggressive plan.
Like, wow.
Um, it was like, well, I you know, I worked on AI with it.
I'm like, yeah, but AI is telling you how amazing you are.
And I have to tell you, as a strategic comms person who's been doing this for a very longtime, this is not going to happen.
And I think that that's probably why people pay me, so they can actually get like a a realresponse, but it's not always received great either.
(18:56):
Mm-hmm.
Um, because I do think there's this false hope that um that AI is getting so many foundersright now.
And um I think we just need to be more strategic.
I I am interested how do you reset those expectations when someone brings you thisbrilliant chat GPT plan that tells them how great they are and they're gonna be on the
today show?
(19:17):
they either try to do it themselves or they find somebody who is willing to take theirmoney and to do it.
It's I mean, and and I think it's funny I wrote a whole post about this because I Iactually think I'm too ethical as a PR person.
I've been doing this for so long.
I'm not gonna take someone's money unless I know that I can be successful.
And I know that I'm successful because I have years of experience of doing this.
(19:40):
And um
A lot of the time it won't work and I will I'll either not hear from this person again orI'll hear from this person and say, like, I should have listened to you in the first
place.
Like, what actually do you recommend we do now?
We just wasted this much money on this and we actually have to get this out in the world.
What's the plan?
So and I'll I I I think that there that's a very humble thing to do.
(20:02):
Right.
But if you're investing so much money in a new business, that you you gotta you know, youyou want it to be successful.
I think CrisisComs is going to have the largest role it's ever played in branding and inum kind of in the world next year.
Cause I think right now everybody is really leaning into again like AI strategy.
(20:27):
And I think it is going to potentially backfire for a lot of people and are going to needcrisis communication specialists to come in and kind of clean clean it up.
Sa say a little bit more about that because I have some suspicions about what the nexteighteen months looks like um from a cybersecurity perspective with respect to AI, but I'm
I'm interested in your take on the the crisis comms piece.
(20:49):
I get very concerned that people are getting strategic communications counsel, bothinternal comms of how to talk to your employees and how to talk to your stakeholders, and
external comms of how to talk to your consumers.
and it's not great advice.
I think some of it is is is good, but I think some of it could lead to long-term crisis,which could be a, you know, you've done a huge PR campaign to launch a product and you
(21:15):
actually there's no way you can make that amount of product.
In a certain amount of time and you're gonna have very angry customers.
Or you ended up making product with a manufacturer that Chat GPT, you know, told you wasfen like phenomenal and the product is terrible.
And then you also have angry customers.
But it could be anything too of your employees or or even you as a you know, as a CEOsaying the wrong thing and then asking chat for guidance of what to do next, and it it
(21:43):
definitely steering you in the wrong direction.
So um there's
Commun crisis communication specialists are a very special breed who can come into a intoa scenario with 10 different plans on how things are gonna go and execute flawlessly.
Um, but you have to be able to pivot real time.
(22:07):
So, I mean, I I have dealt with a lot of crisis in my career with with major brands.
And you're like, okay, well, here's
Plan A.
And then of course, you know, you have lawyers and you have all the other people that arelike, Well, we definitely don't want to do it that way.
Like, we can't be that honest.
Um, but here's, you know, here's plan A.
And it's like, okay, well, that doesn't work.
Here's plan B.
Okay, if it goes, it's it's like a choose your own adventure from when you were a kid,those books.
(22:28):
So a a uh good crisis comms team is gonna have all of the scenarios of how this could landand then and then know in real time which way to go.
Yeah.
I appreciate you taking us through that because one of the things that I see withinorganizations is what I'm going to call stretch or adjacent competencies.
So AI allows folks to extend beyond their core competencies.
(22:52):
And sometimes that's a good thing, but there is a line at which you cross that it startsto become dangerous.
Say when somebody from marketing is reviewing legal contracts, right?
Uh pertaining to procurement or whatever.
Um, and they feel like they can do that because of AI.
And so what you've just surfaced kind of falls into that.
bucket in my mind, but just the stakes are perhaps even a little higher.
(23:14):
Well, and on the cybersecurity front, I think i in in kind of tandem with this, a lot ofpeople are very concerned that their digital IP is being made on a company's AI platform
and they want to own that.
So there are companies, I mean, I've had people reach out to me and they're like, I I canmake a digital copy of you that then your clients can tune into if they don't have access
(23:41):
to you.
Mm-hmm.
And I have gone back to all these people.
It says, Who owns my digital IP?
Who who owns that?
Like, I'm not you is that now on your platform?
And then what happens when your platform either goes away and like where does this live?
Where's that data live?
So I know a lot of people right now who are not wanting to put their IP on their company'sAI platforms and then using their own, which is a whole security risk in itself, right?
(24:08):
It's like the one that you have at home, if you're throwing a
RFP into where you're throwing a a creative idea into uh if it has new product or it hassomething it's you know that that is client sensitive on there, uh is that going out into
the world?
I mean, I have so many questions about how this is gonna work.
So I'm sure I'm sure you do too.
(24:28):
It's like what's next?
Yeah.
and I think what a lot of folks lose sight of, which I don't think you have, because whileyou didn't specifically articulate this, it's kind of embedded in your comments, is that
as the technology and the capabilities continue to improve at an exponential rate, thevolume of information that we've provided uh is very fertile ground for
(24:53):
digital twins and a lot of more sophisticated uh capabilities than what we can evenenvision today.
So your question about who owns this, where does it live, where does it go, what happensto it, I think that's all extremely relevant.
And a lot of people just want to wave that away right now.
Um, but it it is not something that should be waved away.
Yeah, and on the agentic front, which I'm still I I'm very novice still.
(25:17):
So I just want to say like I'm very much, I mean, obviously I think we all are, to befair, like we're all learning what that looks like.
my biggest concern is that our algorithms are so curated anyway.
So when it comes to PR, back, you know, even five years ago, 10 years ago, you used to beable to get a story and then you would get the audience of that media landscape, not just
(25:40):
People that are reading your story.
So even now, if you're on the Today Show or you're on in the New York Times, the peoplewho are reading your story are still only the people who are interested in your idea,
right?
They're only interested in that topic.
So it's not like you're getting the reach that you used to either.
So I'm like, so if I like this one pizza place, is it never gonna show me Thai food?
(26:01):
Do you know what I mean?
Like, how am I gonna be able to experience new things unless I go out of my way to dothat?
I don't want it to just be constantly serving me.
what it knows I like.
So I don't know what that's all gonna look like either.
Yeah.
It I think it's really one thing is very clear to me.
We are uh one foot over the line into a very different era that we don't understand yet.
(26:26):
And I know that's a very broad nebulous statement, yet I don't think there's a a highlevel of appreciation about how different the age that we have entered is going to be in
many respects from the age that we just left.
Yes.
And I think about that in terms of electricity, in terms of the internet.
(26:47):
Um, somebody was saying the other day, they're like, I'm just really concerned about whatthe jobs look like.
I'm like, the the wild thing is, I mean, I went I graduated college in 2001 and there wereabsolutely no jobs to be had.
I mean, it was just like a a a desert.
and I was in Northern California as well, so it was just like that was a real interestingsituation.
Um, but the amount of
(27:09):
New jobs that were created from that.
I mean, we didn't have content creators, we didn't have IT, we didn't, you know, like allof that stuff has created an entire new economy.
So, in many ways, I'm actually excited to see like what the careers of tomorrow are gonnalook like, right?
And also like the skills that you're gonna need for those careers.
Like I the hill I will die on and I will continue to just, you know, beat this drum isthat everyone will need intuitive intelligence, everyone will need emotional intelligence.
(27:39):
Mm.
Yes.
And if you do not have those three skills, and we're gonna have to start teaching thoseskills in a major way.
Um, that's what's gonna make you successful.
I I couldn't agree more.
And the erosion of critical thinking skills, in my view, and I'll probably take some flackfrom the higher ed and business community for this, uh, but in my view, that erosion began
(28:03):
twenty-five, thirty years ago when we decided that we were just gonna start trainingpeople to do jobs.
You're gonna go to college or whatever.
Yeah.
And so we've we've lost the ability to think, many of them.
Uh and I don't know how we get that back in a timely manner because you're absolutelyright.
EQ
Judgment, discernment, the ability to work with other people.
(28:23):
I think that uh AI has the ability to make us more human if we lean into certain aspects.
Um, but there are some very real hurdles to getting through this current transition point.
Yes, and what critical thinking is gonna look like and the and the need for that in thefuture, I think it's gonna be different than it's been in the past as well.
(28:47):
But I'm also just seeing the, you know, alpha generation and how we need to really doubledown on life skills as well, of just or like street skills, right?
A lot of their book smarts are going to be not necessary.
I hate to say that, but not necessary for the world that we're gonna be living in.
But um their street smarts are gonna be unbelievably important.
(29:10):
And um we're gonna have to to help nurture an entire resilient generation that you'reyou're right, has I think um discernment in a way that we've never actually like really we
in a in a new way that we really, really need.
I'm excited about that.
And I think that there's people like us that are gonna need to to help mentor thatgeneration as well.
(29:34):
I I agree because the the days of going for your undergrad, your your higher ed, your gradschool education, and having to memorize voluminous amounts of information in order to
apply it, that particular skill set I don't think is relevant anymore.
But the question in my mind is what level of training and memorization is important to beable to get to that critical thinking path?
(29:58):
And I I see that a lot with organizations right now as well when they're hiring, uh
They are automating an awful lot of very routine work.
And and candidly, that work's very boring, yet it served a purpose for a lot of uh entrylevel folks.
So, how do we replicate that experience in a meaningful way and accelerate their abilityto get to a point where they can apply judgment in a meaningful way?
(30:23):
I don't have a good answer for that.
So yeah.
I'm I am actually excited to see where that goes.
Yeah.
So what um what do you think keeps a uh before we leave the issue of judgment here, uhwhat do you think keeps a leader's judgment sharp?
What have you seen folks doing to stay grounded, to continue to not surrender theircognitive abilities to some of these tools?
(30:45):
I mean, the first thing is as a leader, if you're expecting your employees to be using AI,you better be using AI too.
Like there needs to be the the KPIs that are put in for your staff, you also need to beheld accountable for.
Um when it comes to keeping those those skills sharp, I I mean, I do I still think it'slike in person.
(31:09):
You know, I I reaction like interaction.
I think it's it's having those tough conversations.
Um, I've noticed and have seen a lot more companies actually having to bring in the kindof like interpersonal skills that an entire generation really didn't, especially the ones
that are joining work right now.
So the ones that were like at the end of high school or um early college when the pandemichit, but are needing those kind of um interactive interpersonal skills at work.
(31:40):
So it's wild that that has to be taught.
into an an entry-level job, but I also think that we need it because they're gonna be themanagers of not only the people, but the managers of the agents.
And it's we we are not gonna have an option anymore.
So it everyone is going to be a manager.
And that is something that you are not taught until you actually manage people.
(32:02):
Like you don't go to management school.
I mean you can, but it's not that it's it it's not actually real like it's it doesn't workuntil you actually have to do it in real life, right?
So
I'm really curious on that how that's gonna work out.
And I am I there's nothing more I love than helping teach those kind of workshops becauseI we they're also fun.
(32:22):
You know?
Like like getting to like figure out how to use your intuition and and figuring out likewhat real writing schools look like when it comes to interpersonal communication.
Yeah.
And you just framed things in a way I hadn't quite thought about before, but it it harkensback to something I work with executives on for the last 15 years, which is the difference
between management and leadership.
(32:44):
And as these systems become more sophisticated, I think it's going to be very easy to foolourselves into thinking that we just need to either manage or lead, right?
irrespective of whether it's an AI system or a human being.
Yet I think there's gonna be distinct differences there, and folks need to be able to puton the management hat when they're working with an AI agent versus the leadership hat when
(33:06):
they're looking working with their their human counterparts.
A hundred percent.
And I think that the leadership we still need to there's a very gray line, I think,between obviously leading in a way that has empathy and has compassion, but also leading
in a way that where you still where you have a P and L and that's the bottom line, right?
(33:31):
Like I've never been that person that's like, This this this company is a family.
I I don't fire my family.
I don't pay my family.
So and that
Other I'm sure other people do.
I don't.
but there's I think we need to think about what that looks like.
And obviously there's a huge difference between, you know, running a startup and running apublic company.
(33:55):
So, but yeah, leadership and management are two very, very different things and I thinkare going to kind of weave in and out in the in the next uh generation.
Well said.
Let's return for a second to um digital footprints and personal brand, but let's let's gonegative.
Uh there's a downside to having a digital footprint that makes you easy to find.
(34:20):
And I'd like your perspective on what execs really need to understand about the risk sideof building a public brand right now.
So as I mean, this is such a this is such a tricky topic because well for so no, no, no,but I mean for so many reasons because it also is gonna change so dri it it's changing
(34:45):
literally between like the first conversation we had a few months ago to like where it isnow to where it's gonna be in six months is just wild.
The first thing I think about all the time when I am either posting or I am on a podcastis how easy it is for somebody to not only recognize
replicate my ideas, but also replicate my voice.
And for the generation that is Gen X and like I think mid-millennials to eldermillennials, we are living in a time where our parents are living much longer and um they
(35:17):
are more easily deceived when it comes to um when it comes to the internet, right?
So I mean every conversation it's like, how do you get your parents off the phone?
This is just like wild.
but I have also had parents who have gotten that phone call with somebody who sounds likeone of us, um, which is terrifying.
(35:39):
So the deep fake in that is going to be much more prevalent as more and more people havetheir voices online, have podcasts, have YouTube, have, you know, thought leadership,
wherever that is.
So that's the number one thing that I always say, like you always have to keep that inmind.
The other thing is names are not unique.
(36:00):
And I hate to say that in like the like the worst way possible, but there's a bunch ofpeople with my name.
So even as I am thinking about the brand that I'm building, somebody else is building abrand that is always kind of intertwining with mine.
There's another publicist who has my name.
There is someone in the uh government who's she's a badass.
(36:21):
She's amazing.
She makes me look great.
Um, but who also has my name.
So um it's it's just it.
at the time?
I've got to get going.
it's just it's so interesting to me because I never thought about the fact that like thosebrands would really like inter interweave in a weird way.
(36:41):
So as I'm building my brands, and I do it fairly intentionally.
I say this as a PR person, but I'm like so authentic that it kind of like it is what itis, what you get with me.
Um, blessing and a curse.
Um
that it it is when when LLMs are crawling all of the things that I'm doing, I'm alwayslike, how am I not showing up?
(37:04):
You know what I mean?
Or why am I showing up this way?
So that's something to think about.
And then the other thing is like, and I've said this for obviously decades as a PR person,like once it's on the internet, you cannot take it back.
Somebody screen grabbed it, somebody saw it.
Like the best advice I can give when you are in some kind of situation like that is tolike move very quickly.
(37:24):
Because the slower you are to to a kind of crisis with your own personal brand, you'regiving people the time to create the narrative that they want out in the world, which is
always a a wild like wild to me.
Yeah.
t two follow-up questions to that.
Um, and I'm not sure what the right vernacular would be here, but I'm thinking likedigital hygiene baseline, right?
(37:50):
Like, is there a minimal uh or whatever phrase works here, um, for my first question, isthere a minimal digital hygiene baseline that people should be thinking about as leaders
um when they are trying to guard against some of this type of um more nefarious stuff?
Not that you can ever prevent it, but
Yeah.
(38:10):
I do.
I mean, I think it's hard because you wanna have you wanna know what's going on with yourown brand, right?
So it I having like a Google alert that tells you when something's happening is actuallylike number one.
Um, the second thing is like grab everything that has your name, like your website, thesocials, just so that nobody else can actually create something underneath your name.
(38:33):
Now this all takes like a lot of work too.
I mean, to be honest,
The best executives who I think have great brands but are not like wild are the ones whohave no social media.
And the ones who like they have a LinkedIn, right?
But they're not posting anything.
The the ones who are are doing talks and are doing things very intentionally.
(38:54):
They tend to be older because they don't, you know, they don't need that push like thatothers do.
Um and I also think the things that are private key private, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And if something is no longer serving you or you no longer align with the values, deleteit.
Like I got rid of Twitter when it became X.
(39:16):
I was like, this no longer aligns with I I I don't enjoy this space anymore.
So I got rid of it.
So we just don't need to be everywhere.
It just I and and I think a publicist is gonna say to you, you need to be everywhere forreach.
And just as a I I think you can be somewhere, not everywhere.
And I also think we always need to think about like what the long tail of all of that is,of having to maintain all of that stuff too, is a is a huge full time job and commitment
(39:44):
and cost.
So there's that too.
Yeah.
And then my second follow up, that was um that was great.
And I think there was a lot of really good um advice in that.
And this doesn't need to be a long answer, but you talked about moving fast uh when youhave a a a compromised position with your personal brand.
(40:05):
What does that look like in terms of moving fast and how do you move fast in a situationlike that?
Is that
Get out there and delete everything as soon as possible.
Is that get your own narrative out there?
Yeah.
I know.
it's like, yeah.
I mean again, this is why I tell everybody to have a crisis comms person or at a publicistthat you know on speed dial, like even a friend, just like help me.
(40:31):
it's always fascinating when you get those phone calls.
I uh when I say move fast, I think obviously like you're not gonna do somethingimmediately.
Like take a sec.
To actually like take in this scenario, is it something that is that actually garners theattention that is needed or is something that can um be ignored?
(40:52):
Right.
To everybody, you just remember like stuff, the media and news move so fast.
Um, 10 years ago, when something happened, you would be in the news the whole week.
Now you're in the news for 24 hours.
Th if that the problem though is that LLMs are
always going to remind everybody that you were in the news for 24 hours, right?
(41:15):
So I also see a future where we are going to be, and it's all it's been happening for awhile, but where we're going to be quite manipulative of what we can scrape from the
internet.
But that comes at a cost.
I I think owning mistakes, if that is what your crisis includes, um, is the most humanthing that you can do.
(41:37):
So you just surfaced something that I I hadn't thought about before.
You you talked about the um the the news cycle, right?
You gave the example of 10 years ago you were in it for a week, now you're in it for ifthe 24 hours at most.
Yet, yet, the the way the the game is starting to be played is that people aren't going tonews articles anymore.
(41:58):
They are looking for that AI served up uh distilled information.
So
Are there ways to uh I don't wanna say game the system, but are there ways to influencethat AI driven narrative as opposed to um some other type of crisis comms here?
D you understand what I'm asking?
Yeah.
with that though, where we are today, is that um that takes time.
(42:23):
So even if you put a blog on your website or you um are in a trade publication or you arelike flooding the social airways with like all of your friends posting, the LLMs are not
going to crawl that for weeks, if not like two months.
So like
everything has a a a much longer uh tail than we think it does at the moment.
(42:48):
I do think that's gonna change um with just the speed of how things are happening.
But right now, no, that's gonna show up months later.
And and I I don't know what the solve is yet for that.
Well, and that's a fascinating contradiction that you just highlighted there in terms ofthe speed of the news cycle and the speed and the pace of change, um, coupled or
(43:08):
contrasted, I guess, against the lag of the uh agentic systems ingesting that content andthen repurposing it.
Yeah, and again, I think I think I I don't know, but I think the solve on that is gonna behow do we delete as much of it as possible so it's not crawled.
But i that's gonna be very expensive.
(43:30):
And you can't delete social media stuff that other people have put out there.
And then when you add bots into the mix, I mean, I i I it is a v this is an unbelievablycomplicated and and
terrible dynamic, like and complex problem that I I don't have a solution for.
There's I'm sure there's gonna be companies that are like, I can solve that.
(43:52):
Like I I they're gonna make a lot of money.
Yep.
No doubt.
Well, and you know, I it it reminds me of a conversation that I'm hearing more and morefrequently, which is is the internet even built for humans anymore?
Have to say it we're sharing it in the best way possible.
(44:14):
Well, because you know, I think that, and I've I've been reading a bunch about this, a lotabout this lately, of the role that AI is gonna play, especially in health healthcare.
There have been a lot of um articles that have been written about this, there's a lot ofsocial that's happening about this, there's even national morning shows that are talking
about this.
That in America, healthcare is so we have such a lag.
(44:36):
And when we actually need to see doctors and when we need to get things done.
And then the cost is so high, even with insurance, that people are going to AI foranswers.
And people are going to AI for medical or for um, you know, mental health help.
And people are going to AI for a lot of, I think, personal usage in that's in that way.
(44:58):
And I do believe that I that AI is probably going to help us solve cancer.
Right is gonna it I think it there's a lot of medical uh there's a lot of amazing medicaladvances that we are going to make with this.
And I also think that it gives us a little bit of solace when we can't find and we can'tget into the healthcare providers that we need.
(45:23):
So that's where I think that that humans are always gonna be kind of like checking back into solve the these daily problems that we are have gotten into like a complete, you know.
um that we've hit a wall with.
I mean, I've done that myself.
Now I wouldn't recommend everybody like upload all of your medical um charts and labs andeverything into AI.
(45:45):
But if you have specific questions, I mean all of these articles are saying like it's agreat starting point to figure out what you need next.
That's that's amazing if you think about it.
It absolutely is.
And I I think that is a really good example of the the true power that you can unleashwith these tools in terms of large data analysis, pattern mining, context analysis, um,
(46:07):
and medical applications, I think are absolutely one of those um slam dunk areas.
But again, you don't want to necessarily wanna go to Doctor Chat GPT.
Um right, yeah.
So
no.
But but I do think that it it can help point you in the right direction.
Right.
I was looking for a specific specialist that I needed that is very rare.
(46:28):
And it it crawled the internet and gave me pretty much every specialist within the UnitedStates.
Like that would have taken me hours to to research myself.
So yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You touched on uh the issue uh a few moments ago in in one of our conversations here aboutum some of the older leaders, and you didn't use the word older, but maybe you said more
(46:51):
seasoned, I don't remember.
Uh leaders that uh have had a lot of success building their brand.
And I'm wondering if we're thinking about more seasoned leaders, do the ones that builtthe footprint before Agentic AI uh started taking hold, do they have an edge that the next
cohort won't?
No.
(47:12):
No, I actually think they are at a deficit.
because they're not necessarily the ones that want to be vulnerable.
And I think that authenticity and vulnerability and transparency is actually what dri isnow driving a personal brand.
So the old playbook is just not gonna work anymore.
(47:35):
Now that doesn't mean that they're not going to be in their jobs and they're not going tobe getting, you know, multi-million dollar, you know, paychecks and bonuses because they
run companies very, very well.
But I can tell you right now, there are junior staff within their companies that have muchmore established, much more credible, and much more um, I think, inspirational personal
(47:59):
brands than their leaders do.
Hmm.
What do you think the value of a a personal brand like that is for a junior leader?
Because it's not like AI is going to hire that junior leader for the next position, right?
They still have to show up, they still have to demonstrate competency to the peoplethey're interviewing with.
What what is the value of that brand?
(48:20):
I mean, you have that if if you're coming, this is and this is gonna sound absolutelycrazy, but if you're coming to a company with 200,000 followers on your TikTok and and
you've been talking about purses, I'm just gonna give an example.
If you're moving into a marketing company that is focused on consumer products, youalready have added value to that company because you understand that social media game,
(48:48):
you understand.
your audience that you're talking to, you underhand understand, I think, culturalbehavioral strategy and how that works.
And you also have a bunch of followers that your company can then be mentioned on to them.
So I I I actually guest lecture um at USC and the first question I teach a class on um onpersonal branding.
(49:13):
And that's one of the first questions I ask is who in here is a content creator and howmany followers do you
And how do you use that to your advantage?
Mm-hmm.
You know, but but a side hustle like that too, even if you're somebody who bakes on theweekends, right?
And and is selling things out of your home, that you're an entrepreneur.
(49:34):
And if you're talking about that and that's part of your personal brand, I wanna hire youbecause you know how to start a side hustle.
Mm-hmm.
I'm I'm quiet here for a second because I'm I'm thinking about what we talked aboutearlier in terms of um brand equity and I'm thinking about your comments just now and I've
(49:57):
run across a couple executives um so l let me let me frame this up here.
Um kind of talking over myself because you've you've got me thinking here.
I've run across a couple of executives that have um actually inserted into theiremployment contracts prior to hire that they can't have a digital twin of themselves
created.
Right.
We kind of touched on that subject earlier.
By the way, brilliant.
(50:17):
I think everybody should be doing this, no matter no matter what level you are.
Yeah.
you're gonna like this next question.
Um, so as in your example here, uh, let's stick with that 200,000 company followers, youhire me.
Um, I'm gonna bring my brand equity to the company now, even though maybe I'm not inmarketing per se, uh, but I've got followers, I've got that.
(50:39):
Are you seeing any indicators out there that people are negotiating terms in theircontracts or should they be thinking about this?
Where the brand equity that they bring comes with them and leaves with them.
and maybe prior posts or things get deleted when they leave.
Like, where is the line here between what a company has the ability to uh create valuefrom based on what the individual is bringing versus the long term effects of that when
(51:06):
that individual transitions to another organization?
That's a great question.
I actually have not thought about that at all.
And that's something that I do think that a younger generation needs to think about.
Because you are bringing I have always and and the the way that I've done it is probablynot the way that it should be done.
So I just want to make that like really clear because I it was I I haven't been embeddedin a brand in, you know, six years.
(51:30):
So um
But even then we it was much more kind of like added value and there was no expectation.
Like it's not like the company got to approve anything that they posted, right?
It was still like that is their side hustle and that's their thing.
And we love them for that because we all we we get that kind of the the peripheral bonusof that, of that knowledge and of that um potentially of that reach, right?
(51:57):
But I do think that if this is something that is.
Expected.
I I don't I don't know what that's gonna look like moving forward.
If that is something expected, um, that is something that should be contractuallydiscussed.
But kind of what you were saying too, that I and I love that people are already thinkingabout this, there's an amazing Wall Street Journal story about this kind of digital
(52:18):
identity in your own IP and a digital twin.
ensuring that whatever is it whatever digital
I think identity that is created for you at that company is taken with you.
But I also think we need to be thinking about our digital IP living in our estate plans aswell.
Because when these um when this digital identity is created of you, right?
(52:43):
We're all gonna have one at some point.
Um, and it's wild because potentially it is something that like, you know, after you'vepassed, your family will be able to talk to.
I mean, like it's the the the future of this is fascinating to me.
But it is something that your family should own.
Like
And if you don't put it there, who owns it?
Where is it?
It's just, is that just living in purgatory for like just everybody to enjoy?
(53:05):
Like these are the things that I don't think that we're thinking about at all as we arehanding over all of our data to companies that have not told us how they're going to use
it.
Wild.
Like absolutely crazy.
Yeah.
you're you're unlocking some thoughts here for me.
Um, and I can't remember uh the deceased actor whose estate just put them in a movie.
(53:29):
Um their digital visage and image.
do you know what I'm talking about?
There was yeah.
oh Okay, regardless if we can remember it or not, yeah, it it's a thing.
And so what I'm wondering here is to your point.
uh maybe we need to be looking to the entertainment industry and some of the outliersthere for guidance about what comes next.
(53:50):
But then my follow up question is that actor's uh estate made the decision to put them inthere.
So who owns our digital twins after our death?
And yeah, it's one thing to say put it in your estate plan.
It's another to say, um, is there a a DNR equivalent, right, for your digital twins?
A gazillion percent.
(54:11):
And those these are things that we're just not as a society talking about enough.
And it's it's wild because p I'm sure there's people listening that are like, well, I'mjust never gonna have a digital twin made of me, right?
I just don't want that.
Okay.
Well that, but even when I was talking to these companies, they're like, We will take allof your Slack messages, we'll take every podcast you've ever been on, we'll take any town
(54:33):
hall you've ever been on, we'll take all of your emails, we'll take
you know, voice messages off your phone.
Well, whatever.
We'll take anything that we have access to and make it.
And some of the things is are in public purview, right?
What?
I mean, like these are the things when people are like, what keeps you up at night?
(54:53):
I'm like, this, this keeps me up at night all the time.
Like I that is a it is so fascinating to me of what this looks like.
And I also fear of all of the parents who have
unknowingly put their children on social media f since they were born, right?
I mean, some of them obviously have used them as content creators and that kind of stuff,but just like, you know, the pictures on Facebook and the videos on Instagram.
(55:20):
And I mean, all of those settings and um and con like our our user agreements are changingof who owns that IP as well.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Because none of these companies, none of these companies are forever.
And so then what happens to those digital assets when you know Meta gets absorbed by DeepSeek or whatever, right?
(55:43):
Uh it yeah.
Very important questions.
So no, we don't.
So, all right.
So, back in terms of as we kind of draw our conversation here to a close um in the nextcouple minutes, what is something that um you are
constantly getting pinged uh by clients and potential customers about or with right nowthat maybe we haven't covered.
(56:06):
Are there any themes that you're seeing out there?
Are there any requests that are coming your way with respect to some of the stuff we'vebeen discussing?
Yeah, I think the a couple things.
The first one is how do I sound like the best version or the most authentic version of mein talks, in town halls, in emails, on LinkedIn.
(56:27):
that is, I think, of the that's at the forefront because I think again, we've we've leanedtoo much into letting letting chat and uh clot writing our emails and our thoughts and
Process that.
So it's kind of like, okay, everyone is now anti-sounding AI.
How do I not sound AI?
Which is fascinating to me, right?
(56:47):
The other thing is a lot of questions I get about intuitive intelligence.
What does that mean?
How do I um how do I teach my employees about it?
How do I foster that?
How do I create an environment of uh creativity and kind of like bigger thinking?
when um when i'm also requiring my staff to use ai on a regular basis.
(57:12):
So that to me is a fun one because it's something I love to teach.
And I teach it with tools that are just like like I I actually use tarot cards andpendulums and energy work to get everyone out of their head and really start remembering
what it was like to use that innate intuition that we're born with.
I mean we are born with fight or flight, right?
(57:33):
Like like
Our bodies create a visceral reaction to something if it is not the right thing.
And we are with AI are taught to ignore that.
We are taught to trust something that isn't innately that.
So, how do we get back to trusting that and not trusting something that's telling us we'reright?
(57:56):
I love it.
I'm so excited about this.
Like that is the thing that I am most excited about in the future.
I I and you just um a as this conversation has unfolded, you continue to say things thatum spur thoughts for me here.
And one of the things that just fired off for me during your comments was the line betweenperfunctory communications um and workflows where I don't care if AI deals with that
(58:20):
versus creative or unique responses that do require my voice, because I I do see a lot ofexecutives running wholesale into the idea that AI can
Help me answer these emails and route this thing to this department.
And I think that is entirely acceptable c candidly, because I don't need to have uh a poemby Keats uh when I'm dealing with right, who's gonna answer this customer service
(58:44):
complaint.
Um, but if it's a request from a journalist for an interview or if it's a key client, I dothink that that requires a little bit more thought.
So I wonder about that line.
I think that layoffs are the best example for that.
And let me tell you why.
I actually wrote an op-ed um in AdAge last November when um Omnicom, now obviously a hugeholding company, was letting go of thousands of people.
(59:12):
It was all done with very little empathy and very little compassion.
And these are people who have been there for decades, right?
Um, and I understand with a merger, there's obviously going to be operational structurechange.
Right.
But the thing that was lost in the comms around that was that nobody read the room.
The the the comms was very it was written very much for a shareholder and not for theperson.
(59:38):
And what happened from that was a huge outcry of kind of I to be honest, like disgust andjust like disappointment on Reddit, on LinkedIn, on Instagram.
I mean, it was every social media thing that you could think about.
It was written like, I can't believe this is how this was handled.
And for very little time, and I think, um, and obviously money, there could have been waysthat even the communication around it was done in a much more human way.
(01:00:05):
So I just think so much of the time that we we lean into what is compliant and legallywhat is best versus like actually how do we treat each other like humans in a way that
makes the most sense.
So it's just this idea of like, again, you can't do something without reading a room.
And
So many the times we kind of push that aside for something that feels um operational.
(01:00:32):
And I just I I it is I think it's a thing that just kind of like disappoints me most aboutwhat's going on in the world right now, and especially when you're on LinkedIn, is you're
like, I I've worked here for twelve years and I just got a, you know, an email that wastold that I'm no longer, you know, useful in this company.
It sucks.
It does.
So let's put the human back into uh the workforce and into the communications.
(01:00:56):
And I think that's probably a a real good place for us to to end our conversation today,Elizabeth.
And speaking of humans, if someone wants to reach out and learn that you are a real humanand contact you as a human, how would they go about doing that?
You can reach me at thegoodadvice company dot com and on LinkedIn.
My name is Elizabeth Rosenberg.
(01:01:16):
Wonderful.
Elizabeth Rosenberg, thank you very much.
Uh I enjoyed our time together here today.
Me too, thank you.
And for our listeners, thank you for joining us for another episode of AI for the C Suite.
If this episode was useful, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, follow us onLinkedIn, even though it's saturated, and check out AI for the C Suite dot com.
(01:01:36):
And until next time, keep your algorithms running, your leadership evolving, and your AIin check.
Take care, everybody.
Two.
um
I'm Chad Harvey, and this is AI for the C-Suite, the show for senior leaders who know AImatters and need to figure out what to do about it.
Each episode we dig into what it all actually means for middle market organizations, howit's changing decisions, strategy, leadership, and the nature of work.
(00:22):
Let's get into it.
My guest today has spent more than two decades shaping how some of the world's mostrecognizable brands and leaders show up in public.
She ran Global Communications for Apple's Creative Agency and for 72 and Sunny beforefounding the Good Advice Company, where she now helps C suite leaders build personal
(00:42):
brands that actually sound like them.
Elizabeth Rosenberg has a take you need to hear.
In an age where AI can optimize your LinkedIn, write your bio, and even mimic your voice,the leaders who win aren't the ones who post the most.
They're the ones who stay unmistakably human.
She's Equal Parts strategist and straight talker with a healthy skepticism about handingyour story over to a machine.
(01:07):
We're going to get into what a personal brand even means now, how to use AI withoutdisappearing into it, and why the most human thing you do might be your biggest
competitive advantage.
Elizabeth Rosenberg, welcome to AI for the C Suite.
Thank you so much for having me.
I think that was one of my favorite intros ever.
So thank you.
I love it when people tell me good things.
(01:29):
All right.
We're gonna have some fun today.
Um and let's start with some foundational stuff.
It's twenty twenty six.
What actually makes up a personal brand these days for an exec?
And what's genuinely changed now that AI is in the mix versus just noise, right?
Because there's a lot of that out there.
I think we all need to take into consideration that we all have a personal brand, whetheryou've like made a conscious effort to build it or not.
(01:55):
So, what your personal brand is, is what and how people are talking about you when you'renot in the room.
That's what I like to think about, think of it as.
What's happening now is people are going to AI to help build their brands.
And AI is just so agreeable and and also wants us to.
I don't really think like stand out authentically, but really kind of like show up howsociety wants us to show up.
(02:21):
So what I'm finding is that AI is building brands where everyone sounds like each other.
And the thing that is really obvious it's making v it's I think the results of this arewhat AI looks like on LinkedIn right now, right?
It's like there's so many posts that sound the same that have that pregnant pause that arelike, this is the lesson that I learned.
(02:44):
Um, and then you're also seeing a lot of people that are now posting, I get rid of the AIslop, everyone sounding the same, I don't like it here anymore.
So we're definitely at a crossroads of what that looks like and I think what the future ofeveryone's brand is gonna like.
So let let me dig in on something that you just surfaced there because one of the thingsthat I find when I work with execs, and I don't work with them on personal brand, but I I
(03:08):
do oftentimes um get a lot of questions from folks about their voice um and how to avoidthis homogenization factor that you're you're talking about.
One of the things I find quite frequently is they just expect the AI, whatever the systemis, to understand who they are and to channel their voice without any other homework.
(03:29):
And I I feel like when we're talking about personal brand or we're talking about tone orvoice, a lot of it just comes down to doing your homework and giving context to a lot of
these systems if you're going to turn over some of the writing and some of the voice tothem.
So I'm interested in your perspective, how much of it is giving context and seeding thatuh in the AI so that it can channel and better understand who the individual is, versus
(03:52):
whoa, we just need to put up a wall here and really lean into the human side.
Think there's a little bit of both because I've I've practiced both too.
I have a Google Doc that has every one of my LinkedIn posts since 2019 on it.
The drafts that I have, and and obviously in 2019 and 2020, AI was not writing my post forme, right?
(04:14):
It still isn't, to be fair.
My my LinkedIn, when you go to it, says all comments and all posts are written by me.
And it's very important for me for that people understand that.
But even if I upload all of that into a Claude and all of that into a ChatGPT and say, canyou write a post about blank blank blank?
It's for LinkedIn.
I wanted to include this, these are lessons I learned.
(04:36):
It is still never going to give me a hundred percent of what my voice is, right?
Because your voice evolves, your voice changes, your voice is contextual, you haveintellectual knowledge of what's going on at any moment and any time.
And the thing about LinkedIn is that it is thought leadership that is happening in themoment.
Mm-hmm.
do have to be very aware of how we are talking about things that's that's also connectingwith culture, right?
(05:00):
Or connecting with something that is that is happening in real time.
So I actually think it's less about training AI for your voice and more about prompting AIand having kind of I I think systems and and your settings in place that say what not to
do.
So don't change my voice for this.
(05:21):
I want you to push back and is this going to be AI optimized?
Um, is this something that is gonna resonate with my audience?
Is this like, can you give me grammatical information as to like how this could better be,I think, written in a way that is going to be read best versus changing all of my words?
Like mine literally says, like, do not change the the tone nor the idea of the post, butgrammatically, is there anything in here that's not making sense or is this optimized for?
(05:50):
For what will work both best for the platform, whether that's Substack, whether that'sMedium, whether that's LinkedIn or anything, right?
Um, but a lot of the time it will still override that.
It's wild.
I'll go and I'm like, I did not ask you to rewrite my post.
I don't want you to.
Just I need you to tell me, I want you to tell me exactly what I asked for.
And then it's always like, my bad.
(06:12):
You know, like you're right, you didn't ask for this.
So I do think as we are.
Using AI as a writing partner, I think we need to be very clear of where our human voiceis going to stand out.
And I'm just noticing too, the the personal brands that are thriving right now are theones that have the more human perspective and the more human writing and and say things
(06:37):
that AI wouldn't say, you know?
Well, and you you surfaced something else I think that's really important.
You talked about the evolution of a brand and the evolution of a voice.
And one of the things I wonder is whether we're gonna start to see voices stagnate, notjust be homogenized, but stagnate and not evolve because of an over reliance on the tech.
(06:58):
uh a gazillion percent, yes.
Because I think what we're seeing is that people are are s really starting to to questiontheir own trust in themselves and their writing.
Like we Chat and Claude said that this wasn't right.
Gemini is pushing back and says it's not right.
I know that this is right.
I have twenty-five years of experience doing this, but am I not doing this right?
(07:20):
Is you know what I mean?
Like and and I think this is where we need to actually
And I'm sure we're gonna talk about this, but this is where we need to start reallylistening to our own gut and our own in intuition as to what feels right and what doesn't.
And I have found that kind of the more unhinged I am and the more honest and the moreauthentic and the more I'm like, I'm just gonna say what everyone's thinking and nobody
(07:42):
else is actually posting, those are the posts that always get the most traction.
I know that I have a privilege of being able to do that because I own my own company.
Right.
So as a PR person, I'm also like, I don't want an employee off doing that.
Yeah, right.
Please be careful.
Um but I but I do think that that the the unabashed and that like kind of like outlandishand unhinged voice is the one that's actually gonna s to stand out right now.
(08:11):
Yeah.
I I completely agree with that.
And I I'll be interested in I I wasn't thinking about this question.
Um, so totally going off script already.
but one of the things that I've started to do when I write an article now is I willactually feed it back into AI and I will ask it to do some deep research.
Sometimes it takes twenty, thirty minutes, to see whether the themes that I'm surfacingare themes that are already being circulated out there in the wider world and what in my
(08:38):
piece or what in uh I have put together.
is unique.
And sometimes what I now find I'm doing is I'm stripping out two thirds of what I wroteand focusing on what it's identified as a unique piece that's not being replicated by
other voices or other AIs out there.
And then kind of cr using that as a lever to to go even more, like you said, to be a bitmore unhinged.
(08:59):
Yeah.
I mean, you're gonna have to follow the data and see if that's serving you.
Because my pushback on that would be even if somebody else is talking about this othertheme, your take on it is still the interesting thing that people need to hear about.
Right?
So it's like there was a time where everybody was talking about, you know, move fast andbreak things.
(09:19):
I'm sure we're gonna get back to that because we're breaking things in a knock right wayright now.
but
Everybody was talking about it, but everybody had a different perspective on it.
So it is one of those things too.
Is if everyone's talking about it, is it actually going to get you back into the algorithmin a better way because it is something that is actually um circulating, right?
(09:42):
So I I it'll be very interesting to see if the data is a proof point on that.
I mean, I I know that I'm talking about intuition and intuitive intelligence and the useof AI.
I'm not the only one talking about it, but I do feel like
my my opinion is unique in that sense too and and my my knowledge of you know twenty fiveyears of marketing communications and then also you know leaning into that intuitive side
(10:06):
of me is is really aiding that um that point of that point of view.
Yeah.
Well and and so let's talk a little bit more about this idea of unique and and where uh aunique brand starts from, because I I think there's a lot of misunderstanding out there
with leaders, probably less so with younger leaders, more so with uh older Gen X andwhatnot, about what their brand even is and where they start with this.
(10:33):
So what what does make up a a unique brand from a personal perspective in your vo in yourview?
The number one thing is a relatable story.
So as we've gotten older, our resumes are all starting to look very similar.
Right?
Like you've all, we've all been at either, like, especially the, I'm sure the people thatare listening to this, we've all been at like the same kind of companies.
(10:57):
We all kind of had a very similar trajectory.
The s human story that has then given you insight and I think wisdom to lead the way thatyou do or to.
on be a you know start a new entrepreneur like be an entrepreneur or start a new businessor innovate in the way that you do that's the thing that's interesting so when I work with
(11:21):
executives so much of the time they're telling me their story and they're like well I wantto talk about creativity, innovation, and you know leadership.
And I'm like, no one cares what you have to say about any of those things.
Like everyone else is talking about those things.
Nothing is interesting.
But
In the middle of your, you know, of your career, you had a parent who passed who you werecaretaking for, you became sober, and you moved across the country.
(11:49):
Okay, well, those are things that are actually interesting that are giving such depth toyour human story and life experience that has then made you the leader that you are today.
And those are the type of people that then want to work for you.
Cause it's like you've also been a caretaker, like that.
That leads to a lot of the personality of who I'm looking for in a mentor.
(12:11):
Or you're also sober, I'm also sober.
This is leading to a space of safety where I can actually feel like I can learn and grow.
So I think that we those soft skills and those life skills and those personality traitsare actually so important to who we are and are going to be significantly more important
as I think AI takes a larger role in our lives, especially in the corporate world.
(12:37):
The examples that you just gave there really cut in my mind directly to the idea ofvulnerability.
And I mean, basically what you just yeah, that's what you just said.
So I that is very contrary to the world that I grew up in 30 years ago professionally.
And I recognize there's been a sea change here.
And, you know, I I've got a foot in kind of both generational camps, as it were, but thatis a really difficult thing to get past for a lot of people.
(13:05):
It is, but I also think it's a thing that's gonna cut through.
So I mean, as it it is, especially when I'm working with people, they're like, well, Idon't want to talk about that.
I'm like, okay, well, we can keep of we can always work with what you want to talk about.
But it depends on what your end goal is, right?
Like, I don't think everybody needs to be on a stage.
I don't think everybody needs to be a thought leader.
(13:27):
But I do think that when people have a unique opinion and an and unique story, the rightpeople are gonna hear it when they need to.
And then the ripple effect of that is gonna be the impact that you leave on the world.
Right.
One person hears me say, if I talk about my recovery journey, that is going to, you know,help me in my corporate world and starts talking about the recovery story.
(13:50):
And then they get another person to get into recovery, job done.
You know?
And I think that we think too big when we need to start thinking a little smaller.
I I completely agree.
I think the one thing that I wrestle with a lot when we're talking about this and f makingsure that we've got a uh an authentic story out there that resonates with the right person
(14:13):
at the right time is it just feels so crowded.
Uh even LinkedIn, it just seems like a saturated platform and it's like, What do I gottado to break through?
Yeah.
I I don't know if LinkedIn is for everyone.
I don't think that everybody needs to be a content creator.
I mean, I say this all the time.
It's like I I I don't want to be making videos and making content all the time.
(14:36):
Like that that isn't good for my soul, right?
But I love to write.
So if I can share some of that, I that makes me happy.
When it comes to LinkedIn, if if creating isn't your thing, right?
And that's not that's not what you want to do.
Engaging is the best possible thing for you.
(14:56):
A comment here, a comment there.
If that's not your jam, go to events.
And I think your your brand is going to come out naturally with the people that you'rearound.
And I I do think we just even even six years after the pandemic, we need more humanconnection.
I mean, if you just look at like, you know, the Knicks parade, it was like
(15:19):
the the energy and just like and even the World Cup, it's just like people being out andjust like the the hospitable nature of people when we get the chance to like I think bond
around something that is exciting is really, really lovely and something that we need moreof.
Um and even if that's not your thing, if you're an introvert, I always just tell myclients like, even if you want to be home all the time, totally fine.
(15:44):
Say try saying yes to one thing a month.
Just one.
And it can be a networking event, it could be a pottery class, it could be pickleball,whatever it is.
Just get out because I think that human connection, whether it is in work or outside ofwork, is still building your brand in a great way.
So let's let's talk a little bit about how you build your brand, but let's talk about itfirst from the perspective of what not to do, because I know you spend a lot of time uh
(16:13):
with clients telling them what not to do and why that plan they got from Chat GPT orClaude is overly optimistic or unrealistic or just plain wrong.
So let's talk about what that looks like.
And we we've kind of touched on this, but I want to go a little bit deeper in in terms ofhow execs misuse AI for their brand.
(16:34):
The w the what not to do first is to be a thought leader on everything.
Just because you're a thought leader does not mean we need your point of view oneverything.
And I think often that's our default.
It's like, well, this is what's going on in the world.
I need to be commenting on this.
When I help people build brands, I I bucket them into professional, personal passion.
(16:57):
And I make the buckets pretty big.
So you can you have some play, you know, area to work with.
But once you nail down those, don't veer.
They can evolve too, but they don't really change, right?
It's kind of like your institutional knowledge and the things that you're excited about.
Um the other thing when it comes to your personal brand is don't change it because someonedoesn't like it.
(17:24):
I think a lot of the time people would be like, Well, I was talking about this and I gotreally bad feedback from like four people.
And I'm like, okay, well, then those, then your brand is not for those four people.
Mm-hmm.
you don't have to be everything to everyone.
It's just not gonna work.
And then also, especially with executives, we don't need your political opinion on everyon everything.
(17:47):
Unless that is part of your value state, like value statement and mission statement withinyour company.
And that is something that you're actually driven to do.
And or it's a personal like passion project of yours.
But it it makes things very, very hard.
Because once you comment on something, everybody wants your comments on everything.
And um, your PR person's just gonna be in a world of a world of heart.
(18:09):
Um, but when it comes to AI and AI's optimism, I mean, the amount of founders who havesent me PR plans that have been written on ChatGBT and that are like, this is such an
amazing idea.
You are gonna launch this on the Today show, and it is gonna be great.
And I will I've actually reached out and been like,
Hi, did you like, where'd you get this this plan?
(18:29):
Like what this is a very this is a very optimistic and aggressive plan.
Like, wow.
Um, it was like, well, I you know, I worked on AI with it.
I'm like, yeah, but AI is telling you how amazing you are.
And I have to tell you, as a strategic comms person who's been doing this for a very longtime, this is not going to happen.
And I think that that's probably why people pay me, so they can actually get like a a realresponse, but it's not always received great either.
(18:56):
Mm-hmm.
Um, because I do think there's this false hope that um that AI is getting so many foundersright now.
And um I think we just need to be more strategic.
I I am interested how do you reset those expectations when someone brings you thisbrilliant chat GPT plan that tells them how great they are and they're gonna be on the
today show?
(19:17):
they either try to do it themselves or they find somebody who is willing to take theirmoney and to do it.
It's I mean, and and I think it's funny I wrote a whole post about this because I Iactually think I'm too ethical as a PR person.
I've been doing this for so long.
I'm not gonna take someone's money unless I know that I can be successful.
And I know that I'm successful because I have years of experience of doing this.
(19:40):
And um
A lot of the time it won't work and I will I'll either not hear from this person again orI'll hear from this person and say, like, I should have listened to you in the first
place.
Like, what actually do you recommend we do now?
We just wasted this much money on this and we actually have to get this out in the world.
What's the plan?
So and I'll I I I think that there that's a very humble thing to do.
(20:02):
Right.
But if you're investing so much money in a new business, that you you gotta you know, youyou want it to be successful.
I think CrisisComs is going to have the largest role it's ever played in branding and inum kind of in the world next year.
Cause I think right now everybody is really leaning into again like AI strategy.
(20:27):
And I think it is going to potentially backfire for a lot of people and are going to needcrisis communication specialists to come in and kind of clean clean it up.
Sa say a little bit more about that because I have some suspicions about what the nexteighteen months looks like um from a cybersecurity perspective with respect to AI, but I'm
I'm interested in your take on the the crisis comms piece.
(20:49):
I get very concerned that people are getting strategic communications counsel, bothinternal comms of how to talk to your employees and how to talk to your stakeholders, and
external comms of how to talk to your consumers.
and it's not great advice.
I think some of it is is is good, but I think some of it could lead to long-term crisis,which could be a, you know, you've done a huge PR campaign to launch a product and you
(21:15):
actually there's no way you can make that amount of product.
In a certain amount of time and you're gonna have very angry customers.
Or you ended up making product with a manufacturer that Chat GPT, you know, told you wasfen like phenomenal and the product is terrible.
And then you also have angry customers.
But it could be anything too of your employees or or even you as a you know, as a CEOsaying the wrong thing and then asking chat for guidance of what to do next, and it it
(21:43):
definitely steering you in the wrong direction.
So um there's
Commun crisis communication specialists are a very special breed who can come into a intoa scenario with 10 different plans on how things are gonna go and execute flawlessly.
Um, but you have to be able to pivot real time.
(22:07):
So, I mean, I I have dealt with a lot of crisis in my career with with major brands.
And you're like, okay, well, here's
Plan A.
And then of course, you know, you have lawyers and you have all the other people that arelike, Well, we definitely don't want to do it that way.
Like, we can't be that honest.
Um, but here's, you know, here's plan A.
And it's like, okay, well, that doesn't work.
Here's plan B.
Okay, if it goes, it's it's like a choose your own adventure from when you were a kid,those books.
(22:28):
So a a uh good crisis comms team is gonna have all of the scenarios of how this could landand then and then know in real time which way to go.
Yeah.
I appreciate you taking us through that because one of the things that I see withinorganizations is what I'm going to call stretch or adjacent competencies.
So AI allows folks to extend beyond their core competencies.
(22:52):
And sometimes that's a good thing, but there is a line at which you cross that it startsto become dangerous.
Say when somebody from marketing is reviewing legal contracts, right?
Uh pertaining to procurement or whatever.
Um, and they feel like they can do that because of AI.
And so what you've just surfaced kind of falls into that.
bucket in my mind, but just the stakes are perhaps even a little higher.
(23:14):
Well, and on the cybersecurity front, I think i in in kind of tandem with this, a lot ofpeople are very concerned that their digital IP is being made on a company's AI platform
and they want to own that.
So there are companies, I mean, I've had people reach out to me and they're like, I I canmake a digital copy of you that then your clients can tune into if they don't have access
(23:41):
to you.
Mm-hmm.
And I have gone back to all these people.
It says, Who owns my digital IP?
Who who owns that?
Like, I'm not you is that now on your platform?
And then what happens when your platform either goes away and like where does this live?
Where's that data live?
So I know a lot of people right now who are not wanting to put their IP on their company'sAI platforms and then using their own, which is a whole security risk in itself, right?
(24:08):
It's like the one that you have at home, if you're throwing a
RFP into where you're throwing a a creative idea into uh if it has new product or it hassomething it's you know that that is client sensitive on there, uh is that going out into
the world?
I mean, I have so many questions about how this is gonna work.
So I'm sure I'm sure you do too.
(24:28):
It's like what's next?
Yeah.
and I think what a lot of folks lose sight of, which I don't think you have, because whileyou didn't specifically articulate this, it's kind of embedded in your comments, is that
as the technology and the capabilities continue to improve at an exponential rate, thevolume of information that we've provided uh is very fertile ground for
(24:53):
digital twins and a lot of more sophisticated uh capabilities than what we can evenenvision today.
So your question about who owns this, where does it live, where does it go, what happensto it, I think that's all extremely relevant.
And a lot of people just want to wave that away right now.
Um, but it it is not something that should be waved away.
Yeah, and on the agentic front, which I'm still I I'm very novice still.
(25:17):
So I just want to say like I'm very much, I mean, obviously I think we all are, to befair, like we're all learning what that looks like.
my biggest concern is that our algorithms are so curated anyway.
So when it comes to PR, back, you know, even five years ago, 10 years ago, you used to beable to get a story and then you would get the audience of that media landscape, not just
(25:40):
People that are reading your story.
So even now, if you're on the Today Show or you're on in the New York Times, the peoplewho are reading your story are still only the people who are interested in your idea,
right?
They're only interested in that topic.
So it's not like you're getting the reach that you used to either.
So I'm like, so if I like this one pizza place, is it never gonna show me Thai food?
(26:01):
Do you know what I mean?
Like, how am I gonna be able to experience new things unless I go out of my way to dothat?
I don't want it to just be constantly serving me.
what it knows I like.
So I don't know what that's all gonna look like either.
Yeah.
It I think it's really one thing is very clear to me.
We are uh one foot over the line into a very different era that we don't understand yet.
(26:26):
And I know that's a very broad nebulous statement, yet I don't think there's a a highlevel of appreciation about how different the age that we have entered is going to be in
many respects from the age that we just left.
Yes.
And I think about that in terms of electricity, in terms of the internet.
(26:47):
Um, somebody was saying the other day, they're like, I'm just really concerned about whatthe jobs look like.
I'm like, the the wild thing is, I mean, I went I graduated college in 2001 and there wereabsolutely no jobs to be had.
I mean, it was just like a a a desert.
and I was in Northern California as well, so it was just like that was a real interestingsituation.
Um, but the amount of
(27:09):
New jobs that were created from that.
I mean, we didn't have content creators, we didn't have IT, we didn't, you know, like allof that stuff has created an entire new economy.
So, in many ways, I'm actually excited to see like what the careers of tomorrow are gonnalook like, right?
And also like the skills that you're gonna need for those careers.
Like I the hill I will die on and I will continue to just, you know, beat this drum isthat everyone will need intuitive intelligence, everyone will need emotional intelligence.
(27:39):
Mm.
Yes.
And if you do not have those three skills, and we're gonna have to start teaching thoseskills in a major way.
Um, that's what's gonna make you successful.
I I couldn't agree more.
And the erosion of critical thinking skills, in my view, and I'll probably take some flackfrom the higher ed and business community for this, uh, but in my view, that erosion began
(28:03):
twenty-five, thirty years ago when we decided that we were just gonna start trainingpeople to do jobs.
You're gonna go to college or whatever.
Yeah.
And so we've we've lost the ability to think, many of them.
Uh and I don't know how we get that back in a timely manner because you're absolutelyright.
EQ
Judgment, discernment, the ability to work with other people.
(28:23):
I think that uh AI has the ability to make us more human if we lean into certain aspects.
Um, but there are some very real hurdles to getting through this current transition point.
Yes, and what critical thinking is gonna look like and the and the need for that in thefuture, I think it's gonna be different than it's been in the past as well.
(28:47):
But I'm also just seeing the, you know, alpha generation and how we need to really doubledown on life skills as well, of just or like street skills, right?
A lot of their book smarts are going to be not necessary.
I hate to say that, but not necessary for the world that we're gonna be living in.
But um their street smarts are gonna be unbelievably important.
(29:10):
And um we're gonna have to to help nurture an entire resilient generation that you'reyou're right, has I think um discernment in a way that we've never actually like really we
in a in a new way that we really, really need.
I'm excited about that.
And I think that there's people like us that are gonna need to to help mentor thatgeneration as well.
(29:34):
I I agree because the the days of going for your undergrad, your your higher ed, your gradschool education, and having to memorize voluminous amounts of information in order to
apply it, that particular skill set I don't think is relevant anymore.
But the question in my mind is what level of training and memorization is important to beable to get to that critical thinking path?
(29:58):
And I I see that a lot with organizations right now as well when they're hiring, uh
They are automating an awful lot of very routine work.
And and candidly, that work's very boring, yet it served a purpose for a lot of uh entrylevel folks.
So, how do we replicate that experience in a meaningful way and accelerate their abilityto get to a point where they can apply judgment in a meaningful way?
(30:23):
I don't have a good answer for that.
So yeah.
I'm I am actually excited to see where that goes.
Yeah.
So what um what do you think keeps a uh before we leave the issue of judgment here, uhwhat do you think keeps a leader's judgment sharp?
What have you seen folks doing to stay grounded, to continue to not surrender theircognitive abilities to some of these tools?
(30:45):
I mean, the first thing is as a leader, if you're expecting your employees to be using AI,you better be using AI too.
Like there needs to be the the KPIs that are put in for your staff, you also need to beheld accountable for.
Um when it comes to keeping those those skills sharp, I I mean, I do I still think it'slike in person.
(31:09):
You know, I I reaction like interaction.
I think it's it's having those tough conversations.
Um, I've noticed and have seen a lot more companies actually having to bring in the kindof like interpersonal skills that an entire generation really didn't, especially the ones
that are joining work right now.
So the ones that were like at the end of high school or um early college when the pandemichit, but are needing those kind of um interactive interpersonal skills at work.
(31:40):
So it's wild that that has to be taught.
into an an entry-level job, but I also think that we need it because they're gonna be themanagers of not only the people, but the managers of the agents.
And it's we we are not gonna have an option anymore.
So it everyone is going to be a manager.
And that is something that you are not taught until you actually manage people.
(32:02):
Like you don't go to management school.
I mean you can, but it's not that it's it it's not actually real like it's it doesn't workuntil you actually have to do it in real life, right?
So
I'm really curious on that how that's gonna work out.
And I am I there's nothing more I love than helping teach those kind of workshops becauseI we they're also fun.
(32:22):
You know?
Like like getting to like figure out how to use your intuition and and figuring out likewhat real writing schools look like when it comes to interpersonal communication.
Yeah.
And you just framed things in a way I hadn't quite thought about before, but it it harkensback to something I work with executives on for the last 15 years, which is the difference
between management and leadership.
(32:44):
And as these systems become more sophisticated, I think it's going to be very easy to foolourselves into thinking that we just need to either manage or lead, right?
irrespective of whether it's an AI system or a human being.
Yet I think there's gonna be distinct differences there, and folks need to be able to puton the management hat when they're working with an AI agent versus the leadership hat when
(33:06):
they're looking working with their their human counterparts.
A hundred percent.
And I think that the leadership we still need to there's a very gray line, I think,between obviously leading in a way that has empathy and has compassion, but also leading
in a way that where you still where you have a P and L and that's the bottom line, right?
(33:31):
Like I've never been that person that's like, This this this company is a family.
I I don't fire my family.
I don't pay my family.
So and that
Other I'm sure other people do.
I don't.
but there's I think we need to think about what that looks like.
And obviously there's a huge difference between, you know, running a startup and running apublic company.
(33:55):
So, but yeah, leadership and management are two very, very different things and I thinkare going to kind of weave in and out in the in the next uh generation.
Well said.
Let's return for a second to um digital footprints and personal brand, but let's let's gonegative.
Uh there's a downside to having a digital footprint that makes you easy to find.
(34:20):
And I'd like your perspective on what execs really need to understand about the risk sideof building a public brand right now.
So as I mean, this is such a this is such a tricky topic because well for so no, no, no,but I mean for so many reasons because it also is gonna change so dri it it's changing
(34:45):
literally between like the first conversation we had a few months ago to like where it isnow to where it's gonna be in six months is just wild.
The first thing I think about all the time when I am either posting or I am on a podcastis how easy it is for somebody to not only recognize
replicate my ideas, but also replicate my voice.
And for the generation that is Gen X and like I think mid-millennials to eldermillennials, we are living in a time where our parents are living much longer and um they
(35:17):
are more easily deceived when it comes to um when it comes to the internet, right?
So I mean every conversation it's like, how do you get your parents off the phone?
This is just like wild.
but I have also had parents who have gotten that phone call with somebody who sounds likeone of us, um, which is terrifying.
(35:39):
So the deep fake in that is going to be much more prevalent as more and more people havetheir voices online, have podcasts, have YouTube, have, you know, thought leadership,
wherever that is.
So that's the number one thing that I always say, like you always have to keep that inmind.
The other thing is names are not unique.
(36:00):
And I hate to say that in like the like the worst way possible, but there's a bunch ofpeople with my name.
So even as I am thinking about the brand that I'm building, somebody else is building abrand that is always kind of intertwining with mine.
There's another publicist who has my name.
There is someone in the uh government who's she's a badass.
(36:21):
She's amazing.
She makes me look great.
Um, but who also has my name.
So um it's it's just it.
at the time?
I've got to get going.
it's just it's so interesting to me because I never thought about the fact that like thosebrands would really like inter interweave in a weird way.
(36:41):
So as I'm building my brands, and I do it fairly intentionally.
I say this as a PR person, but I'm like so authentic that it kind of like it is what itis, what you get with me.
Um, blessing and a curse.
Um
that it it is when when LLMs are crawling all of the things that I'm doing, I'm alwayslike, how am I not showing up?
(37:04):
You know what I mean?
Or why am I showing up this way?
So that's something to think about.
And then the other thing is like, and I've said this for obviously decades as a PR person,like once it's on the internet, you cannot take it back.
Somebody screen grabbed it, somebody saw it.
Like the best advice I can give when you are in some kind of situation like that is tolike move very quickly.
(37:24):
Because the slower you are to to a kind of crisis with your own personal brand, you'regiving people the time to create the narrative that they want out in the world, which is
always a a wild like wild to me.
Yeah.
t two follow-up questions to that.
Um, and I'm not sure what the right vernacular would be here, but I'm thinking likedigital hygiene baseline, right?
(37:50):
Like, is there a minimal uh or whatever phrase works here, um, for my first question, isthere a minimal digital hygiene baseline that people should be thinking about as leaders
um when they are trying to guard against some of this type of um more nefarious stuff?
Not that you can ever prevent it, but
Yeah.
(38:10):
I do.
I mean, I think it's hard because you wanna have you wanna know what's going on with yourown brand, right?
So it I having like a Google alert that tells you when something's happening is actuallylike number one.
Um, the second thing is like grab everything that has your name, like your website, thesocials, just so that nobody else can actually create something underneath your name.
(38:33):
Now this all takes like a lot of work too.
I mean, to be honest,
The best executives who I think have great brands but are not like wild are the ones whohave no social media.
And the ones who like they have a LinkedIn, right?
But they're not posting anything.
The the ones who are are doing talks and are doing things very intentionally.
(38:54):
They tend to be older because they don't, you know, they don't need that push like thatothers do.
Um and I also think the things that are private key private, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And if something is no longer serving you or you no longer align with the values, deleteit.
Like I got rid of Twitter when it became X.
(39:16):
I was like, this no longer aligns with I I I don't enjoy this space anymore.
So I got rid of it.
So we just don't need to be everywhere.
It just I and and I think a publicist is gonna say to you, you need to be everywhere forreach.
And just as a I I think you can be somewhere, not everywhere.
And I also think we always need to think about like what the long tail of all of that is,of having to maintain all of that stuff too, is a is a huge full time job and commitment
(39:44):
and cost.
So there's that too.
Yeah.
And then my second follow up, that was um that was great.
And I think there was a lot of really good um advice in that.
And this doesn't need to be a long answer, but you talked about moving fast uh when youhave a a a compromised position with your personal brand.
(40:05):
What does that look like in terms of moving fast and how do you move fast in a situationlike that?
Is that
Get out there and delete everything as soon as possible.
Is that get your own narrative out there?
Yeah.
I know.
it's like, yeah.
I mean again, this is why I tell everybody to have a crisis comms person or at a publicistthat you know on speed dial, like even a friend, just like help me.
(40:31):
it's always fascinating when you get those phone calls.
I uh when I say move fast, I think obviously like you're not gonna do somethingimmediately.
Like take a sec.
To actually like take in this scenario, is it something that is that actually garners theattention that is needed or is something that can um be ignored?
(40:52):
Right.
To everybody, you just remember like stuff, the media and news move so fast.
Um, 10 years ago, when something happened, you would be in the news the whole week.
Now you're in the news for 24 hours.
Th if that the problem though is that LLMs are
always going to remind everybody that you were in the news for 24 hours, right?
(41:15):
So I also see a future where we are going to be, and it's all it's been happening for awhile, but where we're going to be quite manipulative of what we can scrape from the
internet.
But that comes at a cost.
I I think owning mistakes, if that is what your crisis includes, um, is the most humanthing that you can do.
(41:37):
So you just surfaced something that I I hadn't thought about before.
You you talked about the um the the news cycle, right?
You gave the example of 10 years ago you were in it for a week, now you're in it for ifthe 24 hours at most.
Yet, yet, the the way the the game is starting to be played is that people aren't going tonews articles anymore.
(41:58):
They are looking for that AI served up uh distilled information.
So
Are there ways to uh I don't wanna say game the system, but are there ways to influencethat AI driven narrative as opposed to um some other type of crisis comms here?
D you understand what I'm asking?
Yeah.
with that though, where we are today, is that um that takes time.
(42:23):
So even if you put a blog on your website or you um are in a trade publication or you arelike flooding the social airways with like all of your friends posting, the LLMs are not
going to crawl that for weeks, if not like two months.
So like
everything has a a a much longer uh tail than we think it does at the moment.
(42:48):
I do think that's gonna change um with just the speed of how things are happening.
But right now, no, that's gonna show up months later.
And and I I don't know what the solve is yet for that.
Well, and that's a fascinating contradiction that you just highlighted there in terms ofthe speed of the news cycle and the speed and the pace of change, um, coupled or
(43:08):
contrasted, I guess, against the lag of the uh agentic systems ingesting that content andthen repurposing it.
Yeah, and again, I think I think I I don't know, but I think the solve on that is gonna behow do we delete as much of it as possible so it's not crawled.
But i that's gonna be very expensive.
(43:30):
And you can't delete social media stuff that other people have put out there.
And then when you add bots into the mix, I mean, I i I it is a v this is an unbelievablycomplicated and and
terrible dynamic, like and complex problem that I I don't have a solution for.
There's I'm sure there's gonna be companies that are like, I can solve that.
(43:52):
Like I I they're gonna make a lot of money.
Yep.
No doubt.
Well, and you know, I it it reminds me of a conversation that I'm hearing more and morefrequently, which is is the internet even built for humans anymore?
Have to say it we're sharing it in the best way possible.
(44:14):
Well, because you know, I think that, and I've I've been reading a bunch about this, a lotabout this lately, of the role that AI is gonna play, especially in health healthcare.
There have been a lot of um articles that have been written about this, there's a lot ofsocial that's happening about this, there's even national morning shows that are talking
about this.
That in America, healthcare is so we have such a lag.
(44:36):
And when we actually need to see doctors and when we need to get things done.
And then the cost is so high, even with insurance, that people are going to AI foranswers.
And people are going to AI for medical or for um, you know, mental health help.
And people are going to AI for a lot of, I think, personal usage in that's in that way.
(44:58):
And I do believe that I that AI is probably going to help us solve cancer.
Right is gonna it I think it there's a lot of medical uh there's a lot of amazing medicaladvances that we are going to make with this.
And I also think that it gives us a little bit of solace when we can't find and we can'tget into the healthcare providers that we need.
(45:23):
So that's where I think that that humans are always gonna be kind of like checking back into solve the these daily problems that we are have gotten into like a complete, you know.
um that we've hit a wall with.
I mean, I've done that myself.
Now I wouldn't recommend everybody like upload all of your medical um charts and labs andeverything into AI.
(45:45):
But if you have specific questions, I mean all of these articles are saying like it's agreat starting point to figure out what you need next.
That's that's amazing if you think about it.
It absolutely is.
And I I think that is a really good example of the the true power that you can unleashwith these tools in terms of large data analysis, pattern mining, context analysis, um,
(46:07):
and medical applications, I think are absolutely one of those um slam dunk areas.
But again, you don't want to necessarily wanna go to Doctor Chat GPT.
Um right, yeah.
So
no.
But but I do think that it it can help point you in the right direction.
Right.
I was looking for a specific specialist that I needed that is very rare.
(46:28):
And it it crawled the internet and gave me pretty much every specialist within the UnitedStates.
Like that would have taken me hours to to research myself.
So yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You touched on uh the issue uh a few moments ago in in one of our conversations here aboutum some of the older leaders, and you didn't use the word older, but maybe you said more
(46:51):
seasoned, I don't remember.
Uh leaders that uh have had a lot of success building their brand.
And I'm wondering if we're thinking about more seasoned leaders, do the ones that builtthe footprint before Agentic AI uh started taking hold, do they have an edge that the next
cohort won't?
No.
(47:12):
No, I actually think they are at a deficit.
because they're not necessarily the ones that want to be vulnerable.
And I think that authenticity and vulnerability and transparency is actually what dri isnow driving a personal brand.
So the old playbook is just not gonna work anymore.
(47:35):
Now that doesn't mean that they're not going to be in their jobs and they're not going tobe getting, you know, multi-million dollar, you know, paychecks and bonuses because they
run companies very, very well.
But I can tell you right now, there are junior staff within their companies that have muchmore established, much more credible, and much more um, I think, inspirational personal
(47:59):
brands than their leaders do.
Hmm.
What do you think the value of a a personal brand like that is for a junior leader?
Because it's not like AI is going to hire that junior leader for the next position, right?
They still have to show up, they still have to demonstrate competency to the peoplethey're interviewing with.
What what is the value of that brand?
(48:20):
I mean, you have that if if you're coming, this is and this is gonna sound absolutelycrazy, but if you're coming to a company with 200,000 followers on your TikTok and and
you've been talking about purses, I'm just gonna give an example.
If you're moving into a marketing company that is focused on consumer products, youalready have added value to that company because you understand that social media game,
(48:48):
you understand.
your audience that you're talking to, you underhand understand, I think, culturalbehavioral strategy and how that works.
And you also have a bunch of followers that your company can then be mentioned on to them.
So I I I actually guest lecture um at USC and the first question I teach a class on um onpersonal branding.
(49:13):
And that's one of the first questions I ask is who in here is a content creator and howmany followers do you
And how do you use that to your advantage?
Mm-hmm.
You know, but but a side hustle like that too, even if you're somebody who bakes on theweekends, right?
And and is selling things out of your home, that you're an entrepreneur.
(49:34):
And if you're talking about that and that's part of your personal brand, I wanna hire youbecause you know how to start a side hustle.
Mm-hmm.
I'm I'm quiet here for a second because I'm I'm thinking about what we talked aboutearlier in terms of um brand equity and I'm thinking about your comments just now and I've
(49:57):
run across a couple executives um so l let me let me frame this up here.
Um kind of talking over myself because you've you've got me thinking here.
I've run across a couple of executives that have um actually inserted into theiremployment contracts prior to hire that they can't have a digital twin of themselves
created.
Right.
We kind of touched on that subject earlier.
By the way, brilliant.
(50:17):
I think everybody should be doing this, no matter no matter what level you are.
Yeah.
you're gonna like this next question.
Um, so as in your example here, uh, let's stick with that 200,000 company followers, youhire me.
Um, I'm gonna bring my brand equity to the company now, even though maybe I'm not inmarketing per se, uh, but I've got followers, I've got that.
(50:39):
Are you seeing any indicators out there that people are negotiating terms in theircontracts or should they be thinking about this?
Where the brand equity that they bring comes with them and leaves with them.
and maybe prior posts or things get deleted when they leave.
Like, where is the line here between what a company has the ability to uh create valuefrom based on what the individual is bringing versus the long term effects of that when
(51:06):
that individual transitions to another organization?
That's a great question.
I actually have not thought about that at all.
And that's something that I do think that a younger generation needs to think about.
Because you are bringing I have always and and the the way that I've done it is probablynot the way that it should be done.
So I just want to make that like really clear because I it was I I haven't been embeddedin a brand in, you know, six years.
(51:30):
So um
But even then we it was much more kind of like added value and there was no expectation.
Like it's not like the company got to approve anything that they posted, right?
It was still like that is their side hustle and that's their thing.
And we love them for that because we all we we get that kind of the the peripheral bonusof that, of that knowledge and of that um potentially of that reach, right?
(51:57):
But I do think that if this is something that is.
Expected.
I I don't I don't know what that's gonna look like moving forward.
If that is something expected, um, that is something that should be contractuallydiscussed.
But kind of what you were saying too, that I and I love that people are already thinkingabout this, there's an amazing Wall Street Journal story about this kind of digital
(52:18):
identity in your own IP and a digital twin.
ensuring that whatever is it whatever digital
I think identity that is created for you at that company is taken with you.
But I also think we need to be thinking about our digital IP living in our estate plans aswell.
Because when these um when this digital identity is created of you, right?
(52:43):
We're all gonna have one at some point.
Um, and it's wild because potentially it is something that like, you know, after you'vepassed, your family will be able to talk to.
I mean, like it's the the the future of this is fascinating to me.
But it is something that your family should own.
Like
And if you don't put it there, who owns it?
Where is it?
It's just, is that just living in purgatory for like just everybody to enjoy?
(53:05):
Like these are the things that I don't think that we're thinking about at all as we arehanding over all of our data to companies that have not told us how they're going to use
it.
Wild.
Like absolutely crazy.
Yeah.
you're you're unlocking some thoughts here for me.
Um, and I can't remember uh the deceased actor whose estate just put them in a movie.
(53:29):
Um their digital visage and image.
do you know what I'm talking about?
There was yeah.
oh Okay, regardless if we can remember it or not, yeah, it it's a thing.
And so what I'm wondering here is to your point.
uh maybe we need to be looking to the entertainment industry and some of the outliersthere for guidance about what comes next.
(53:50):
But then my follow up question is that actor's uh estate made the decision to put them inthere.
So who owns our digital twins after our death?
And yeah, it's one thing to say put it in your estate plan.
It's another to say, um, is there a a DNR equivalent, right, for your digital twins?
A gazillion percent.
(54:11):
And those these are things that we're just not as a society talking about enough.
And it's it's wild because p I'm sure there's people listening that are like, well, I'mjust never gonna have a digital twin made of me, right?
I just don't want that.
Okay.
Well that, but even when I was talking to these companies, they're like, We will take allof your Slack messages, we'll take every podcast you've ever been on, we'll take any town
(54:33):
hall you've ever been on, we'll take all of your emails, we'll take
you know, voice messages off your phone.
Well, whatever.
We'll take anything that we have access to and make it.
And some of the things is are in public purview, right?
What?
I mean, like these are the things when people are like, what keeps you up at night?
(54:53):
I'm like, this, this keeps me up at night all the time.
Like I that is a it is so fascinating to me of what this looks like.
And I also fear of all of the parents who have
unknowingly put their children on social media f since they were born, right?
I mean, some of them obviously have used them as content creators and that kind of stuff,but just like, you know, the pictures on Facebook and the videos on Instagram.
(55:20):
And I mean, all of those settings and um and con like our our user agreements are changingof who owns that IP as well.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Because none of these companies, none of these companies are forever.
And so then what happens to those digital assets when you know Meta gets absorbed by DeepSeek or whatever, right?
(55:43):
Uh it yeah.
Very important questions.
So no, we don't.
So, all right.
So, back in terms of as we kind of draw our conversation here to a close um in the nextcouple minutes, what is something that um you are
constantly getting pinged uh by clients and potential customers about or with right nowthat maybe we haven't covered.
(56:06):
Are there any themes that you're seeing out there?
Are there any requests that are coming your way with respect to some of the stuff we'vebeen discussing?
Yeah, I think the a couple things.
The first one is how do I sound like the best version or the most authentic version of mein talks, in town halls, in emails, on LinkedIn.
(56:27):
that is, I think, of the that's at the forefront because I think again, we've we've leanedtoo much into letting letting chat and uh clot writing our emails and our thoughts and
Process that.
So it's kind of like, okay, everyone is now anti-sounding AI.
How do I not sound AI?
Which is fascinating to me, right?
(56:47):
The other thing is a lot of questions I get about intuitive intelligence.
What does that mean?
How do I um how do I teach my employees about it?
How do I foster that?
How do I create an environment of uh creativity and kind of like bigger thinking?
when um when i'm also requiring my staff to use ai on a regular basis.
(57:12):
So that to me is a fun one because it's something I love to teach.
And I teach it with tools that are just like like I I actually use tarot cards andpendulums and energy work to get everyone out of their head and really start remembering
what it was like to use that innate intuition that we're born with.
I mean we are born with fight or flight, right?
(57:33):
Like like
Our bodies create a visceral reaction to something if it is not the right thing.
And we are with AI are taught to ignore that.
We are taught to trust something that isn't innately that.
So, how do we get back to trusting that and not trusting something that's telling us we'reright?
(57:56):
I love it.
I'm so excited about this.
Like that is the thing that I am most excited about in the future.
I I and you just um a as this conversation has unfolded, you continue to say things thatum spur thoughts for me here.
And one of the things that just fired off for me during your comments was the line betweenperfunctory communications um and workflows where I don't care if AI deals with that
(58:20):
versus creative or unique responses that do require my voice, because I I do see a lot ofexecutives running wholesale into the idea that AI can
Help me answer these emails and route this thing to this department.
And I think that is entirely acceptable c candidly, because I don't need to have uh a poemby Keats uh when I'm dealing with right, who's gonna answer this customer service
(58:44):
complaint.
Um, but if it's a request from a journalist for an interview or if it's a key client, I dothink that that requires a little bit more thought.
So I wonder about that line.
I think that layoffs are the best example for that.
And let me tell you why.
I actually wrote an op-ed um in AdAge last November when um Omnicom, now obviously a hugeholding company, was letting go of thousands of people.
(59:12):
It was all done with very little empathy and very little compassion.
And these are people who have been there for decades, right?
Um, and I understand with a merger, there's obviously going to be operational structurechange.
Right.
But the thing that was lost in the comms around that was that nobody read the room.
The the the comms was very it was written very much for a shareholder and not for theperson.
(59:38):
And what happened from that was a huge outcry of kind of I to be honest, like disgust andjust like disappointment on Reddit, on LinkedIn, on Instagram.
I mean, it was every social media thing that you could think about.
It was written like, I can't believe this is how this was handled.
And for very little time, and I think, um, and obviously money, there could have been waysthat even the communication around it was done in a much more human way.
(01:00:05):
So I just think so much of the time that we we lean into what is compliant and legallywhat is best versus like actually how do we treat each other like humans in a way that
makes the most sense.
So it's just this idea of like, again, you can't do something without reading a room.
And
So many the times we kind of push that aside for something that feels um operational.
(01:00:32):
And I just I I it is I think it's a thing that just kind of like disappoints me most aboutwhat's going on in the world right now, and especially when you're on LinkedIn, is you're
like, I I've worked here for twelve years and I just got a, you know, an email that wastold that I'm no longer, you know, useful in this company.
It sucks.
It does.
So let's put the human back into uh the workforce and into the communications.
(01:00:56):
And I think that's probably a a real good place for us to to end our conversation today,Elizabeth.
And speaking of humans, if someone wants to reach out and learn that you are a real humanand contact you as a human, how would they go about doing that?
You can reach me at thegoodadvice company dot com and on LinkedIn.
My name is Elizabeth Rosenberg.
(01:01:16):
Wonderful.
Elizabeth Rosenberg, thank you very much.
Uh I enjoyed our time together here today.
Me too, thank you.
And for our listeners, thank you for joining us for another episode of AI for the C Suite.
If this episode was useful, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, follow us onLinkedIn, even though it's saturated, and check out AI for the C Suite dot com.
(01:01:36):
And until next time, keep your algorithms running, your leadership evolving, and your AIin check.
Take care, everybody.
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