How Music Fans Can Save The Planet - Tori Tsui on Billie Eilish, Brian Eno & Fossil Fuel Treaty - Drowned in Sound

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sean Adams: Can music save (00:00):
undefined

(00:01):
the planet?
I realize that'squite a grand big
opening questionfor a YouTube video
and a podcast, but Ithink there's a very
good chance it can.
In fact, a studyfrom Glasgow
University foundthat 82% of music
fans want to preventclimate breakdown.
That's 10% more thangeneral population.
I don't reallyknow what that says

(00:21):
about people thatare not necessarily
self-defined asmusic fans and why
they don't wannasave the planet,
but that's aquestion that we're
not gonna answerin this episode.
Of that 82%, only3% really knew what
they could do asmusic fans to stop
everything goingwrong and life on
earth ending and.
That is quitea shocking stat
that there's allthese different

(00:42):
initiatives inthe industry.
There's some reallyamazing projects.
There's things likeOverheated that
Billie Eilish runs,which is climate
conference and allthe things that she
does at her shows.
There is EarthPercent, which Brian
Eno does, whereartists pledge a percent
of their money intoclimate initiatives,
various differentcompanies, projects.
Charities,organizations that
I've met over theyears have been

(01:03):
doing amazingthings, and one of
the driving forcesbehind the amazing
things they'redoing is the climate
activist Tori Tsui.
She wrote thisfantastic book,
it's not just you,and in this podcast
I got to sit downwith her, pick her
expert brain totalk about what.
We can do as musicfans, what we
can do as humans,really, and some

(01:25):
of the complexitiesof complicities of
the music industry,some of the things
that she's donewith the artists
and activists thatshe works with and.
Well, I'll let herintroduce herself.
This is Tori onstage before massive
attack performedto the Co-op Live arena
in Manchester.

Tori Tsui (01:44):
Good evening, Manchester.
How are you feeling?
My name is ToryTsui and I am a
climate justiceactivist and it is
such a privilegeto be here with
you all tonight.
Today is WorldEnvironment Day

(02:06):
and Massive Attack.
Have endorsed thecall for a fossil
fuel treaty, aglobal framework
to phase out fromcoal, oil, and gas.
Fossil fuels areweapons of mass
destruction, fuelingclimate breakdown.

(02:28):
And also thegenocide of
Palestiniansin Gaza.
Right now, my friendand fellow comrade,
Greta Thunberg,is sailing to
break the siege inGaza, alongside 11
other activists.

(02:49):
It's so important
our to ensuretheir safety.
But the fossil fuelindustry does not
act in isolation.
It is beingbankrolled by
big financialcorporations.

(03:12):
Recently the co-oplive arena announced
a partnership withBarclays, which is
one of the leadingperpetrator of the
climate crisis.
Barclays isproviding financial
investments tothe fossil fuel
industry and thearms trade, which
is slaughteringinnocent

(03:33):
Palestinians.
It is time thatwe took a stand
against theseprofit-driven industries.
It is time that wefight to protect
what we love,our planet, our
people, and ourhomes depend on it.
Fossil fueltreaty provides a

(03:55):
pathway forward.
And so I'm askingeach and every
single one ofyou to join us
in this fight.
Every person whohas a voice and
a conscience, wedemand an end to
big profiteeringindustries.
We demand anend to the banks
that fund them.
We to thegenocide Za.

(04:18):
We demand justice.
Now
it's time.
Fossil FuelTreaty free.

Sean Adams (04:39):
This conversation that
you're about tohear takes place
backstage atEarthSonic Live
in Manchester.
It was a reasonablycalm, thoughtful
conversation, andit was in a room
where there wasn'tan amazing setup.
So there's justvideo of Tori
because it was fartoo complicated

(05:00):
to get myselfon camera.
If you subscribe tothe Drowned in Sound
YouTube channel,you will be able
to find many morevideos from my trip
to Manchester whereI watched people.
Sampling frogsand having a
music lesson inhow to make music
with frog sounds.
I saw artistsperforming
underneath theskeletons of whales.

(05:22):
I watched aninstallation with
beautiful scenery,um, and lush music
with the lightsturned out at night
in the museum, whichwas great, and the
evening was toppedoff by a performance
or a DJ set.
From Groove Mata, sothat's EarthSonic.
But this is myconversation with
Tori Tsui, whichtook place at
Manchester Museum,which is a natural
history museumin Manchester.

(05:44):
Over to meintroducing
Tory again.
Hi, Tori.
Welcome tothe Drowning
Sound Podcast.
, we are in Manchestertoday, backstage at
EarthSonic Live.

(06:04):
The last time youwere here, You stood
on a very big stagein front of a large
crowd of massiveattack fans Mm.
having just got AndyBurnham to sign,
the fossil freenonproliferation
treaty.
I have to pausesaying that because
there's a lot ofwords to get out.
, what is thatand how did that
all come about?

Tori Tsui (06:20):
Thank you for having me on
the podcast, Sean.
And yeah, thatmoment in Manchester
was quite aniconic one.
That happenedearlier this year
in June actually.
Um, as part of theirperformance that
they were doingat the Co-op Live,
which is apparentlythe most sustainable
arena in the uk.

Sean Adams (06:39):
co-op Are the good
guys, aren't

Tori Tsui (06:41):
they?
Yeah.
Well you say that,but not to digress,
but they, werebeing sponsored
by Barclayss,which I did call
out on stage.
Um, but yeah,you mentioned the
fossil fuel treaty.
They're essentiallya global framework
to phase out fromcoal, oil, and
gas
and they're acomplimentary
agreement to theParis Agreement,
which was tryingto keep the world

(07:02):
within 1.5 degreesof warming,
which as we know,unfortunately we
have exceeded that.
Yeah.
And I say wewith this kind
of, I dunno,
I lament slightlybecause We
implies that it's.
A a collectivething, which by
all means is.
But actually thereare people who are
most responsiblefor us going over

(07:22):
1.5 degrees, andthere are industries
most responsible,specifically
the fossil fuelindustry and.
and fossil fuels,coal, oil, and gas
account for 86% ofall carbon emissions
over the past 10.
years.
And The fossilfuel treaty is
essentially trying.
to get the world tophase out from these
addictive materials.
the thing that'sreally frustrating,

(07:43):
with something likeParis is that it
doesn't actuallymention coal, oil
and gas despitethem being the
leading cause ofthe climate crisis.
And as we've seenwith the UN FCCC
Cop 30 in, beem,um, the sort of
biggest climateconference each
year, there isn'treally much of

(08:04):
this emphasis onactually phasing
out from fossilfuels that they're
taking seriously.
Firstly becausewe keep seeing
them host copsand petrostate.
Secondly, becausethe biggest
delegation is alwaysmade up of people
from the fossilfuel industry.
And thirdly,every single time
fossil fuel phaseout gets kind of
mentioned to, tobe implemented in

(08:25):
the agreement, it'sjust shut down.
And that'sunsurprising
because there areso many lobbyists
in the room.

Sean Adams (08:33):
So what does it mean for
like Andy Burnham?
What's Hecommitted to doing?
Is he just committedto like not having
a coal power stationin Manchester?

Tori Tsui (08:40):
Well, I mean, if he did
open a coal powerstation, we'd
be having somewords with him.
But to have,um, a city like
Manchester, whichI think actually
has like stand onin terms of their
commitments tosustainability.
Specifically, ifyou look around
the sort of like,um, commitments
to sustainabletransport, which
I think is veryimpressive.

Sean Adams: They're even called (08:57):
undefined
the B Network.

Tori Tsui (08:59):
process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very greenUm, and you know.
to have Someonelike, um, mayor Andy
Burnham endorsesjust goes to show
that cities canlead the way to
a greener future.
And, and alsofolks like Massive
Attack who reallystand committed
to, um, Loweringtheir carbon
footprint whatwould their sort
of act 1.5initiative and the

(09:20):
way that they powertheir concerts on
renewable energyand, and just
generally stand onthe right side of
history in termsof political views.
It was reallyimpactful for us and
you know, I think.
endorsements arean interesting
thing when it comesto, uh, I guess
something likethe treaty because
while I. you know,we might not think

(09:40):
they have materialchange embedded into
the action itself.
I do think thathaving people with
large profiles andpolitical power
can actually shiftthe dialogue And
get our, Our,
national governmentsto act in a way
in accordance withsomething like the
Fossil Fuel Treaty.
And it's currentlyendorsed by 18
nation states,so 18 countries

(10:01):
around the world.
And that endorsementactually does
translate intochange because
this year is thefirst year that
they're tryingto implement, um.
you know, policychanges within
their legislationto move away from
fossil fuels, whichis really exciting.
And at the.
Cop,
The, um, fossilFuel Treaty
announced theywould be hosting

(10:21):
the first everfossil fuel phase
out conference inColumbia next April.

Sean Adams (10:27):
Should that to be a
festival you goto get another
F in there?

Tori Tsui (10:30):
Oh my gosh, for sure Get a

Sean Adams (10:32):
massive attack on the bill.

Tori Tsui: Well, might have (10:33):
undefined
to.

Sean Adams (10:34):
Yeah.
Um, so in termsof the music
industry mm-hmm.
Like you straddlethe climate
world, which weall straddle the
climate world.
Sure.
And the.
music industry.
And I looked andI couldn't see
if lots of musiccompanies had
signed the treaty.
Mm-hmm.
Like obviouslyvinyl is made with
petrochemicals.
Yeah.
Um, And we've beenlooking into within

(10:57):
place of war,the emissions and
the energy use ofstreaming platforms.
Yeah.
And how things liketracks have gone
from being, I'mgonna glance at
Ellie, who's beendoing the research
but about 20, megsa song, to about
180 megs a song.
So the amount ofenergy you use
every time youstream a song Yeah.
is more, Mm-hmm.
um, and most peoplearen't really
thinking about it.

(11:17):
Obviouslyindividually Sure.
we can't make thatmuch difference, but
if Apple, Spotify,all of the other
platforms thoughtabout the energy
use, Mm. they couldsay, well, this
is the low, and itLike your headphones
aren't that good.
You don't need tobe listening to
it, this quality.
Sure, sure.
Um, so I guess the,the thing that.
I'm curiousabout is like the

(11:38):
music industryis obviously a
huge industry.
Yeah.
Ships thingsall around the
world, Mm-hmm.
hasn't reallyintroduced the new
formats of vinyl.
Like Yeah.
I know there'slike the K-pop
for Planet, planetmovement and they're
really great atlike getting K-pop
artists to kindof change how,
they operate.
I guess like whatsort of things have
you seen and andmaybe are all the
big record companiesand streaming
services signed up?

Tori Tsui (11:59):
Well, the first comment
that you kind of.
made Was aboutindustries, like
the music industryendorsing something
like the treaty,and they can
technically, I justdon't know if many
people and many, um,big record labels
touring companies,what have you
know, that this isan actual action
that they can do.
And I think it'sbecause in part,

(12:22):
you know, thename and the word
fossil fuel treaty,uh, feels quite,
um, like a,an entirely
Different world
Yeah.
that, that, uh, onlyclimate people are,
part of, butthat's not true.
we're

Sean Adams (12:35):
we're in a natural history
museum, right?
Yeah.
Of Dinosaur.
brain.
Yeah.
It feels quiteremoved from
the music.

Tori Tsui (12:39):
And
I think we havea, we have a job
at the treaty tokind of break down
those barriers.
But also I thinkmaybe there's
a fear of like,oh, if we're
committing to this.
we'll never usefossil fuels.
But that's, butthat's not what
we're saying.
I guess what we'resaying is that we
live in this worldthat is very reliant
on fossil fuels,and you can be part
of this transition.
So we call it.
a just transition,meaning that no one
gets left behind.

(12:59):
it doesn't meanthat we Turn off the
taps and everythingends overnight.
That's just notphysically possible.
So, you know, Iwould love to see
more people in themusic industry, more
big record labels,touring agencies.
what have you.
endorse the treaty?
In terms ofdevelopments that
I'm seeing withinthe music industry,
I, there's so manypeople working at
the intersectionof green energy

(13:20):
and touring.
Touring is verycarbon intensive.
Um, whether thatbe through actually
putting on the.
show or getting.
An artist From Ato B and it's not
just the artist,it's there it's
the audience.
Yeah, theaudience as well.
Their teams, um,the band members,
the equipmentthat they're
shipping out.
There's so manydifferent things
to factor in, and Ithink that a lot of

(13:43):
the time it feelslike too much of a
minefield to evenbegin to think about
how to navigatedoing a tour
sustainably thatpeople just don't
even try at all.
But I have seensome really awesome
work being donein that sector.
My friend PaulineBoon runs um, a
consultancy businesscalled Solia, and
her specialty is allabout green touring

(14:04):
and is actually,she's actually
someone who wantsto say to artists.
You are also worriedabout this being
more expensive.
It can actuallycut costs because
you're saving moneythat would otherwise
be spent on fuel.
And I think that'sA really important
thing to rememberis just because
something's seen asmore sustainable,
doesn't itinherently mean
that it's gonnacost you more?
Yeah.
So the work thatshe does, in that

(14:26):
is really cool.
And also, um,people who are doing
research in audienceopinions on climate,
I think that'sreally important
to shout aboutbecause I think
it's like somethinglike over 70% of
audience members orpeople who consume
music actuallywant artists
to take actionon the climate.

Sean Adams (14:45):
And I think music declares
Emergency, Did asurvey and said
82% of fans careabout the planet.
Yeah.
Preserving life onearth, that's huge.
But only 3% knowwhat to do, Mm.
and I think that'sthe big gap, Yeah.
and that's whereartists can come in.
Exactly.
And that That's thework you're doing
with Earth percentand different
organizations

Tori Tsui (15:01):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (15:01):
to give artists the
kind of the option,the vocabulary and
the voice and the

Tori Tsui (15:06):
yeah.

Sean Adams (15:06):
what's.
What's some of thethings like you've
worked with BillieEilish and you are
in the Overheated.
documentary shemade, and you Do
climate conferenceswith Billie.

Tori Tsui (15:14):
Mm-hmm.

Sean Adams (15:14):
What is it that you
think other artistscould learn from
her approach?

Tori Tsui (15:19):
Well, I think it does need
to be said thatsomeone of Billie's,
um, size and herfandom And and the
resources that shehas means that she
can technicallyafford to do more
than, say, midsmall size artists.
Um, and becauseof the impact that
she has, it isworth investing

(15:40):
in that as well.
So I just wannacaveat that,
but there are somany artists of
her caliber andsize who have
really influentialplatforms, and.
I guess.
You know, theyShould be the
ones taking theresponsibility
to do better.
Because if someonelike Billie can
do it, then theydon't really
have an excuse.
I think, Um, I,I really love how

(16:04):
whenever she sellsout an arena and
she's there, fora while, the food
goes plant-based.
Um, there are waterrefill points,
there's like an ecovillage that Reverb
does where theyhave lots of people.
who are.
Campaigning andcanvassing and
tabling, talkingabout the sorts of
organizations thatthey run, whether
it's Billie'sMom's organization
Support, and Feed,which provides

(16:25):
plant-based mealsto a lot of low
income folks.

Sean Adams: Her Mom is one (16:28):
undefined
of my favoritepeople to follow.
Mens come I,She's amazing.

Tori Tsui (16:30):
I
love Maggie.

Maggie Baird: My name is (16:31):
undefined
Maggie Baird.
I am the founder ofSupport and Feed.
I am the motherof Billie Eilish
and Phineas, andI'm a citizen
of the world andlove my neighbors
and in hunger andfixing our broken
food systems isimportant to me.
And one of thegoals of support and
feed, the missionof support and

(16:51):
feed is to addressclimate change.
And food insecurityby taking action,
moving the worldtoward a more
equitable andsustainable
plant-basedfood system.
We first startedsupporting feed at
the beginning ofthe COVID lockdown,
and because of that,we really thought
it was sort of acrisis organization.

(17:12):
We would feed alot of people, but
we realize as wefeed people these
beautiful meals.
These soulenriching meals.
Meals that are notjust feeding them
for an hour, butare giving them
a respect of abeautiful restaurant
quality meal andnourishing them
and helping themunderstand that
plant-based food canbe delicious and can

(17:32):
make you feel great.
We have a consistentpresence in 11
cities in the us.
We are alsoinvolved with
other organizationsaround the world.
A lot of thatis thanks to
my children.
So Billie's tourallowed us to expand
to feed people inthe cities on her
tour and to connectwith community
organizations aroundthe country that
she was touring to.

(17:53):
We were ablelater to do that
with Paramore andwe've done with
other artists.

Tori Tsui: She's amazing. (17:57):
undefined
And I, I saythat with such
fondness becauseShe is almost
like a mom of theclimate movement.
She's such akind person
just the grit thatshe has, she's
so dedicated to
this.
Um,

Sean Adams: she's really good (18:09):
undefined
at explainingthings as well.
Yeah, and I think,and I think one
of the reasonswhy I was really
keen to speak toyou is I think
everything feelsquite complicated.
Yeah.
And I've listenedto a few different
interviews you'vedone and we've
spoken a few timesand I feel like
you have a clarityto the way you
talk about things.
And it's like.
I've been doingdifferent Research
and you suddenlyget into like
tons and leaders.

(18:30):
Mm-hmm.

Tori Tsui (18:31):
Yeah.
Mission

Sean Adams (18:32):
suddenly start to become
this quite abstract.

Tori Tsui (18:34):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (18:34):
And not every day
and not kind ofmanageable thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I think one ofthe things, I can't
remember exactlywhat you said in a
different interview,but you were talking
about the kind ofthe way in which
obviously BP cameup with the carbon
footprint Sure.
and howwe've kind of
individualized andpersonalized Yeah.
so much of this, butwhereas what you're
doing with BrianEno and a Percent

(18:55):
is very much about.
Well, you can justgive a percent of
money and this willgo to organizations
that are doing theeducation that are
like client Earthtaking on the the
kind of governmentsand organizations.
Yeah.
So I, I guessrather than needing
to turn an entirevenue plant-based

Tori Tsui (19:11):
Sure.

Sean Adams (19:12):
or run your festival on
different fuels.
Yeah.
like do you thinkartists are aware
that there's thosesimple things that
they could be doingand like, And and
do you think thatthat stuff is
working in termsof systemic change?

Tori Tsui: So in terms. (19:24):
undefined
of Artists beingable to donate
money by a percent,for instance?
Yeah,

Sean Adams (19:28):
like
a percent.

Tori Tsui (19:29):
Yeah.
You know what,I think, I think
a lot of artistsare Probably
aware of it.
I mean, Brian hassuch an influential
network of artists,um, from his long
illustrious career.
And also the, it'sa testament to the
community buildingthat he does.
He's.
Such an incredibleglue who brings
People togetherfrom all walks

(19:50):
of life, not justin music as well.
Um, and also Ibumped into some
people here whowork at, Sony music
publishing, and theyare very aware of
the work that Earthpresent's doing and
EarthSonic as well.
Um, and it justgoes to show that
there are kindof folks who work
in impact in themusic industry
who are trying topush these ideas

(20:11):
as well and reallytrying to bring
people on board.
So I would saythat the awareness
is there to acertain degree.
Not Everyoneknows about them,
of course, but Ithink actually the
biggest fear thatpeople have is
they're afraid ofgetting it wrong.
Now, something likepledging 1% of what
you earn to theplanet, it feels

(20:31):
pretty low risk.
But I think actuallyfrom a lot of
artists that I'vemet they do want
to be part of thechange, but they're,
they're almost justlike, okay, I can
do that, but whatmore can I do?
Um, what feelspersonal, what
feels authentic?
And I thinkthere's a large.
Part of the, um,hindrance that
revolves aroundfear and just

(20:53):
inauthenticity.
Like they reallywanna do something,
but they're justafraid of being
called out Mm-hmm.
or being seenas hypocrites.
But at this point, I
guess my my pieceof advice to people
who feel thatway is, you know
what, we don'thave much time.
Yeah.
And, and we reallyneed everyone
to get involved.
And you'd besurprised.
I think fans areactually more

(21:14):
encouraging.
Of doing somethingthan nothing at all.
I certainlywould be.
Um, you know,it's not something
that, um, they'remost responsible
for either.
Realisticallyspeaking, music
industry is not themost responsible
when it comes toclimate change.
There is an entireindustry actively
pumping out CO2 intothe atmosphere and

(21:37):
are lobbying ourmajor conferences,
and bribingpoliticians to not
enforce climate.
laws.
Like that'spretty scary.
But

Sean Adams (21:46):
the music, the music
industry andmusic fans do use
the energy grid.

Tori Tsui (21:49):
They do?
Yeah.
And

Sean Adams (21:51):
now that things are
streaming, like Mm,there's different
ways in whichpeople are consuming
music, Sure.
Which, but thenmost of where we
e exist online ison platforms Yeah.
and the ification,which is the Corey
doctor term ofjust like adding
nonsensefunctionality
like the Yeah.
AI DJ on Spotify.
Oh

Tori Tsui (22:10):
God.

Sean Adams (22:10):
And that is burning
up more energy.
more Water.
Just, Sure.
just to play.
use.
So they

Tori Tsui (22:14):
are still, yeah,
they're still partof the solution
and the problem.
Yeah.
Um, I think, perhapspeople are aware
that there is afootprint attached
to their artistry,their name.
It's the fearI think, that
they're gonna belumped in with
the big bad guys.
Yeah.
Um, At leastthat's what I

(22:34):
found from talkingto artists and
also this common.
rhetoric, Whichis, I don't
know what to do.
I want to dosomething, that
I don't knowwhat to do.
And also The factthat the music space
at the moment it'sso hard to survive.
Yeah.
Like most artistsI know are barely
making ends meetand they don't
wanna compromiseany chance of

(22:57):
being financiallyfinancially
sustainable.
I mean, just ifwe're gonna Talk
about, say somethinglike, um, what
was happening inPalestine, what
is happeningin Palestine,
the genocide.
So many artistswould come up with
this, um, you know,common grievance,
which was, I've
just been warned ortold off or yeah.

(23:17):
or Said that Ican't speak about
this and that I'llget dropped from my
record label and andthings like that.
And, and Ican imagine
there Probablyalso similar
circumstancesto do with being
politically, uh,vocal about climate
change in the fossilfuel industry.
Now, the landscapeof mainstream
campaigning haschanged quite a
bit with movementscoming and going

(23:38):
and dying down andrising up, and we've
seen that with theclimate movement.
It's, It seemedto have gone a lot
quieter compared to
the so-calledheydays of
2018 and 2019.

Sean Adams (23:49):
I mean, even at
Glastonbury it wasin a heat wave.

Tori Tsui (23:51):
Yeah.
And

Sean Adams (23:52):
I don't think a single art,
like I watched alot and I looked
up, a lot ofdifferent things.
I don't think I sawany artist talking.
Yeah.
Joining the dotsbetween, you are
out here sweating.
Yeah.
And when you gohome, you should
be taking on thebillionaires and the
corporations Yeah.
Who are treatingour planet and
the way they are.
yeah.
I, I guess one,one conversation
we've had beforeis, is using a
term like climatetoo complicated

(24:13):
Mm. 'cause we
can't see orfeel or touch it.
Whereas You canprotect nature,
you can protectfuture generations,
and that's there'ssomething, that idea
of people wantingto be a protector
or someone wantingto be a defender.
Does that, doesthat language
help or does it

Tori Tsui (24:30):
Yeah.
It's interestingbecause we've laid
a lot of groundwork.
For the climatemovement.
This has been aterm that's come up
time and time again.
Um, especially whentalking about, you
know, the impactsof climate change
or, how this energysource impacts
the climate.
or we can reduceclimate emissions.

(24:50):
I mean, it's,it's just such
a common word inthe the lexicon of
how we talk aboutenvironmentalism
that I think, yeah,a lot of people
haven't really givenit much thought,
but actually when.
You talk to peopleoutside of that
space, it's not aterm that really
resonates with 'em.
Like you said, itdoesn't feel very
tangible and Ithink that there's

(25:11):
almost, um, a partof it that has
become tainted bymainstream media and
like there's such adistinct portrayal
of people in theclimate movement
that it's becomesomething that isn't
really cool to talkabout or interesting
to talk about.
Now, obviously, theperson who campaigns
in the climate.

(25:31):
Uh, in me says, noguys, we need to
care about this,Like, can we just
get over ourselvesand actually just
like stop bickeringover terminology.
But actually I thinkthe work that I've
done in the musicspace and meeting
people outside ofmy own bubble has
really made meappreciate that
sometimes leadingwith climate isn't
necessarily the bestthing to get them to
act on the climate.

(25:53):
Yeah.
Um, I thinksomething that's
really helped isthinking about,
okay, what is itthat they actually
care about?
and how can I
tie.
Climate into thator show that it is a
great magnifier forevery single crisis
on this planet.
I mean, you know,when working on
the Together forPalestine concert
and kind ofattending these
sessions withartists who wanted

(26:14):
to learn aboutPalestine, they
were really engagedand they felt.
a duty Totalk about it.
Um, and I thinkthat's in part to
do with oppressionalso, because it's
horrific what'sbeen happening and
every human shouldfeel compelled
to speak out.

Sean Adams (26:29):
Mm-hmm.

Tori Tsui (26:31):
But something like
climate can oftenbe left out of the,
um, the picturewhen it comes
to such a awfulawful genocide.
But it is very muchfront and center of.
What is happening?
I mean, themilitary industrial
complex is socarbon intensive.
We're seeing ecoside be committed.

(26:51):
Um, human rightsare a part of
climate justice.
And so wheneverI try and talk
to people who areConcerned about
what's happening toPalestinians, I'm
also like, you dorealize that the
war, um, industrialcomplex is in bed
with the fossilfuel industrial
complex Yeah.
and like actuallya really key way.
To tackle thesecrises from um, a

(27:14):
unified angle is tothink about fossil
fuels and to thinkabout the military.
Um, And so I dofeel like it's about
asking them aboutwhat's kind of on
their mind at themoment and then
trying to bring inclimate into that.
I mean,

Sean Adams (27:27):
even as stuff is basic,
as the number offestivals canceled?
'cause of extremeWeather, Both
flooding and heat.
like Yeah.
And then the firesin LA Oh gosh.
literally burnt downrecording studios
early this year.
Sure.
And I thinkthere's a lot
of examples of.
This isn'tsomething in the
future, right?
This is somethingthat is that is
happening now.
Mm-hmm.
And I, And I, Ithink one of the
things I've foundwhen I've spoken

(27:48):
to people, the 1.5element mm-hmm.
doesn't quite addup 'cause people
are so used toputting the oven
on at 180 or 200and not you knowing
the difference.
Sure.
But I don't thinkthey that point.

Tori Tsui (27:56):
Courage feels So arbitrary.
Yeah.
To a lot of people,um, even to someone
like me who's veryconscious of like
what these thingsactually entail
and mean, 1.5 Hasbeen so repeated
and hammered intomy psyche that
it almost startsto lose meaning.
And I think it'sbecause something

(28:16):
like 1.5 we'renot on track for,
and secondly, likea lot of people
don't really seemto understand
what that entails.
What, what does thatactually result in?
What will thatlook like?
What number offloods, what number
of wildfires?
I think peopleneed to see
something tangible.
As opposed to justthis like slightly
obscure numberthat doesn't really

(28:37):
hold much personalmeaning to people.
And I think that'salso part of, it
is like in orderto really transform
people's behaviorand communicate
a crisis of thisscale, it has to
feel personal andnumbers just don't
really cut it.
For a lot of people

Sean Adams (28:52):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker (28:59):
Hi there.
It's Emma.
Hi, I'm Gay Crashin the podcast.
To quickly tell youabout the Drowned
in Sound Newsletter,every Wednesday I
invite myself intoyour inbox with
permission, ofcourse, to share
opinion writing andresources, tell you
about cool thingsthat you should be
involved in withinthe world of music,
activism, et cetera.
I also bring trackof the week and

(29:20):
a little bit ofhopeful news for
you because we allknow that the news
cycle can be grim atthe best at times.
Strand in Soundnewsletter
every Wednesdayin your inbox.
Sign up now.

Sean Adams (29:34):
Mm-hmm.
you've spoken.
Quite a bit abouthow intersectional
like, and literallywe were just talking
about it there,like with the with
wars in military.
Yeah, like if itwas an intersection
a junction,which I like.
What other thingswould be at
that crossroads

Tori Tsui (29:51):
at the intersection
between militaryand fossil fuels?

Sean Adams: just like the (29:54):
undefined
climate movement.
I feel likeevery, like,
it's the, inner,like inequality
is huge Oh gosh.

Tori Tsui (29:58):
Yeah.
Everything,I mean gender
inequality, um,racism, disability
justice as well.
Injustice ratherjust general
human rights.
Yeah.
Every singlestruggle and form
of oppressionenacted on humans
Non-human animal,others intersects

(30:19):
with climate change.
I can't namea single thing
that isn't eitherexacerbated.
by or, you know, um,directly impacting
the climate.

Sean Adams (30:29):
Do you think that the
world that we'reliving in right
now, now, that that
music has reallyfound its place
in this space?
Like, for instance,I can't think
of many records.
Mm. That's themeis the what you
can do or whatis happening.
Like there's lotsof songs that

(30:50):
like the featuringnature projects
That sounds rightAre doing where you
can credit nature.
Sure.
Like it'sinteresting, there's
not like a bigconcept album like,
but then again yougo through like Kate
Bush's catalog Yeah.
there's all songsabout Nature and
amongst that, yeah.
Bjork catalog isfull of, but I just
wonder whether itfeels like often
we have these bigpolitical moments

(31:12):
Mm. and there's likea song that you can
attach to it or analbum, or a whole
series of events.
Mm. Do you feellike there's been
that same kind of.
impetus?

Tori Tsui (31:21):
Not for a while.
I don't feellike that.
that's been thecase for a while.
I think if youlook at the music
that kind of getsout there and that
gets streamed, somuch of it has been
deeply influencedby the social media
landscape, andit's all about what
hook sounds catchyand what can be
attached to a trend.
And it just allfeels like deeply

(31:42):
commodified.
And I think thatalmost Distracts
us from the quoteunquote real world.
because we'reseriously living
in like this socialmedia landscape
where people arejust trying to get
something viral asopposed to create
change and meaning.
Um, I think that's,yeah, deeply
influenced thelandscape of music.
I also think that,you know, while

(32:03):
music is inherentlypolitical, um,
I often remarkthat apolitical
music is also apolitical stance.

Sean Adams (32:14):
Yeah.

Tori Tsui (32:14):
It's a reflection of the
times that we livein, and I think
that in a world.
that's So fraughtwith tension and
politicization,people choosing
to make musicthat is inherently
apolitical isa reflection of
the fact thatit's seen as too
contentious to
be
political.
So I think there isa real lack of, uh,

(32:35):
yeah, willingnessto make this
sort of music.
And also if youlook at what sells,
it's not
political music.

Sean Adams (32:42):
and I think it's also
like you considerthe darkness.
Like It's not.
a cheery topicto Talk about.
Yeah.
The Like and youjust think that
it's ripe for likesome beautiful
melancholic record.
Like I know The Cureof sort of touched
on it and it's, Idunno, it just seems
fascinating to methat of all the
topics that songsare written about.
Yeah.
And it's like youcan't name like

(33:03):
a big conceptalbum that's Sure.
Based aroundall of this.
Like I know thatand Shakar have
written songs Yeah.
But
they're not likeDaytime Radio one
bangers, are they?

Tori Tsui (33:13):
Yeah.
I think there'salmost this
feeling that.
uh, music isan escape,
uh, for a lot
of people.
And when you havethe world as it is
constantly shoveddown your throat,
probably the lastthing you want
to do is put yourheadphones on and
listen to somethingthat reminds you of
how grim things are.

Sean Adams (33:34):
Um,
obviously peopleare doing that
with this podcast,

Tori Tsui (33:38):
I mean, I do this every single
day, you know, Ican't switch off.

Sean Adams (33:40):
Yeah.
I almost feelguilty asking you
these questions'cause I know how.
like you've writtena lot about eco
anxiety, and Yeah.
eco eco survivalismas you've been
talking about itmore recently.
Sure.
And like I knowthe the number of
days I wake up andI'm like, oh, the
guardian, have stuckout a news story,
at 1:00 AM that justseems really bleak

(34:01):
about the futureof life on Earth.
I know.
And then by 9:00AM it's not even
on their homepage.
anymore.

Tori Tsui (34:06):
I know.
It's, so scary,isn't it?
It's, it'ssomething.
that I've beenreally conscious
of lately thatThe consumption
of of so-callednegative news, um,
which you mightalso be able to
substitute negativefor realistic.
um, And I have foundthat kind of by
moving out of solelyclimate related

(34:27):
spaces, I've triedto get into the
heads of everydaypeople who don't
engage with thiskind of stuff, and I
can understand why.
Um, I think that'sone of our Greatest
challenges isto think like
other people whodon't seem to be
engaged with this.
and I don'tthink it's that
they don't care.
It's just reallyhard to care about
stuff when you'recaring about

(34:48):
1,000,001 otherthings there.
Kind offundamentally rely
on you, trying toput food on the
table, providefor other people.
or, You know, takecare of yourself,
first and foremostin a really short
window of time.
whereas somethinglike climate change,
while it is an.
existentialthreat to People
right now and hasimpacted people in

(35:09):
the past as well.
It doesn'tnecessarily feel
like it's on alot of people's
doorsteps.
And I feel likemaybe that feeling
that it's not anurgent thing, even
though it very muchis, stops them from
feeling investedin the fight.

Sean Adams (35:24):
And do you think
some of that is
also because thebiggest extractors
and the biggestpolluters are
such big powerfulorganizations even
and countries?

Tori Tsui (35:32):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (35:33):
That like I think
it's interestinglistening to Zach
Polanski, likehe's, I don't think
I've really heardhim talk about
the environmentor climate

Tori Tsui (35:40):
in

Sean Adams (35:40):
most of the last few months.
I've heard himtalk a lot about
inequality that'stactical and
billionaires.

Tori Tsui (35:46):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (35:46):
And obviously there
was an amazing clipof Billie recently
speaking right toMark Zuckerberg's
face about howbillionaires
should be usingtheir wealth.

Tori Tsui (35:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
We're in a time right now
where the world isreally, really bad
and really darkand people need
empathy and helpmore than kind of
ever, especiallyin our country.
And I'd say ifyou have money,
it would be greatto use it for good
things and maybegive it to some
people that need it.
Um, and.

(36:19):
I love you all,but there's a few
people in herethat have a lot
more money than me.
And uh,
if you're abillionaire, why are
you a billionaire?
No hate.
But yeah, giveyour money
away, shorty's.
Love you guys.
Thank you so much.

Sean Adams (36:38):
And
I wonder whethera lot of this
and a lot of theintersectional
topics, mm-hmm.
they're often entiremedia organization
set up by people.
with all their Moneyand fossil fuel.
Yeah.
Like I thinkthis, yeah,

Tori Tsui (36:49):
it's all connected.

Sean Adams (36:50):
The, Like De Smog did a
study and I thinkthere's something
like 65% of storiesin the sun were
like climatedenial rather than

Tori Tsui (36:57):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (36:57):
Um, and it's like Ruper
Murdoch has probablygot loads of money.

Tori Tsui (37:00):
Exactly.
I mean, you know,the media is also
in bed with oiland gas and it's
not surprising thatthe narratives that
they're putting outthere are really
not in favor ofclimate action.
Um, and whenyou have.
Something like that,
that you'reup against the
billionaires,whether it be
billionaires inmedia or tech,

(37:22):
or you know,in politics.
it makes you feelreally powerless.
And I can see thata lot of people
have become deeplydisillusioned and
very depressedand feeling like
there is no hope.
There is nothingthat we can do
At the same time.
I Do feel likewhen things get so
bad, there is thisinevitability that

(37:44):
actually the entireworld is impacted.
And so there is noother choice but
to revolt, And I'mstarting to see
things like that
bubble tothe surface.
And I do feellike you.
were Talking about,you know, Zach
Polanski's messagingcampaign, not
mentioning climate.
I
think it's verysmart to talk
about the 1%.

(38:04):
I think thatis deeply
intentional andis a really clever
unifying tactic.
because there areso much more of
us than of them.
Yeah.
And the billionairesare the ones who are
driving us off thecliff edge as well.
They're Financial,Um, investments,
assets, theirwealth as a whole

(38:26):
is directly tied.
To some of the mostpolluting industries
on the planet.
So by saying weneed to, either tax
the super rich or,you know, hold them
to account, that'sclimate action
in and of itself.
We don't have tolabel it as such.
Um, And theinteresting thing
is that when youtalk to So-called
everyday peoplewho might seem

(38:47):
against the climatemovement, The
people who criticizelike just up oil
activists forthrowing, soup.
you actually talkto them, they care
about exactly the.
same thingsthat We do.
they want
a good life forthemselves and
their families.
A lot of themhave unfortunately
been preyed uponby the super rich
fed narratives andbeing manipulated
and pitted againstother minorities

(39:09):
thinking that thisis the way out.
Um, scapegoatingis such a powerful
tactic andtool, so I'm not
Surprised thatunfortunately a lot
of very vulnerablepeople have
been manipulatedand have been
sort of, you know,commandeer to
campaign and fightagainst people

(39:30):
who are Enduring
just as badhardships as them.
Um, it's Sad.
It's very sad, Butyou know, I think
that tactic of kindof unifying against
the super rich isprobably our best
chance at this rate.

Sean Adams (39:50):
What
are the solutions
that
the average person
listening to this
can actually
do?
Like
sure.
And I was thinkingabout that when I
was going throughthe, questions.
It's
like
We've been
tackling,
um, Spotify'sroyalties for
ages.
Mm-hmm.
We've just been
going after likethe amount of people
that have left
Spotify now
that they are.
Running
ice adverts mm-hmm.
and putting their,
um,
money intoAI wardrobes

(40:12):
Oh God.
and
suddenly Artists
are engaging Mm-hmm.
They're like,
the
no Music for
genocide campaign.
Yeah.
Artists areengaging.
Yeah.
artists thathave been
completely silent
for the last
three years
Yeah.
Have all
been
engaging.
Yeah.
So I think
that.
like you said, likeit does feel like
the simmering is
now
starting to come
to the boil.
Yeah.

Tori Tsui (40:29):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (40:30):
We're gonna do a series
in January aboutmusic and resilience
Mm. And I'd be
interested
for you
and for other
people, you know,
the role of
music
plays

Tori Tsui (40:39):
Mm. in

Sean Adams: resilience in (40:40):
undefined

Tori Tsui (40:41):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (40:43):
finding
the
space thatyou do need
to
escape.

Tori Tsui (40:46):
Sure.

Sean Adams (40:46):
Like how
important a
role
does
music play?
play for you?

Tori Tsui: Oh my gosh, (40:49):
undefined
I,
I
mean, it's like
asking me
how
important oxygen isto, my livelihood.
Music is soimportant
I feel like
not only
from
a
point ofescapism, but
just
joy in bringing
people together.
Everyone knows
that feeling
of like
being in a
room full
of people
who are
all there to
see this
one artist,

(41:10):
and
there's
that one song thateveryone knows
and they feel so
connected
and
so
moved and
for me, That
translates even
further when I thinkabout artists who
are taking a stand
for the worldthat I want to
live in.
I remember
when,
um,
Billie
came
to the uk,
I think it was two
summers ago
now, and
she did likethis really small

(41:31):
surprise
set at theelectric ballroom
in Camden, and
she was like, oh my
God, Ihaven't done a
small
show
years 'causeit's been 10
years since Ocean
Ice came out.
and and that'skind of what
propelled her
to Start him at
13. And

Sean Adams: also 'cause (41:43):
undefined
of lockdown.
She sort of
bypassed playinga lot of those
smaller shows.
She got sobig so quick.

Tori Tsui (41:47):
Yeah,
exactly.
And
she was
doing this
really
small show.
and all of the fansin the audience
were justmesmerized, you
know, and just
so entrancedby her every
word, and everything
that she was saying.
And I was like,that's what
it's about.
Like that's how
you use yourfandom responsibly
because there are so

(42:08):
many.
People who
Would
literally do
anything forthe artists
that they love.
And I'm like,how great is it
that we have an
artist who really
stands on the rightside of history
and really tries
to use theirplatform in
and outside oftheir music?
, so I
remember that
feeling andI remember
thinking, oh yeah,
this is the sectorI wanna work in
'cause just look howcompelled and move

(42:29):
these people are.
And I
felt thatas a fan of,
Billie's
and also
a consumer of
music,
like
also
being
neurodivergentso much.
of The way
that music movesthrough me is
deeply, deeply
emotionaland powerful.
And it
can literally
be the differencebetween me having a
bad
day and havinga great day, or
me feeling
like kind of a bit
numb and,then feel so

(42:50):
emotional andcompelled and,
compassionate
about,
um, yeah,
the piece
that
I'm
listening to.
So
yeah, music
is
a huge part
of my life.
It
always
has been.
And that's
a really funny
thing is
I
remember when
I was younger
and I grew up inHong Kong, I kind of
started doing like.
freelance work forthis one production
company that wouldbring indie acts
to um, Eastern,Southeast Asia.

(43:12):
Mm-hmm.
And I remember
thinking at thatpoint, I wanna
work in music.
And
then
that
kind of fell tothe sidelines and
I was like,well, I'm working
climate now.
I don't know if
that's ever a thingthat can combine.
And lo andbehold here I am.
I'm like, oh, thisfeels like coming
back home to myselfin a weird way.
, Sean Adams: that really leads into my
next question'cause here we
are, we're atEarth, Sonic Live.
Yeah.
It's

(43:32):
a
takeover ofthe Natural
History Museumin Manchester.
The Manchester,
Museum
And music isright at the core
of what this event
is.
And
I'm curious,
like you've,you've been on
stage, you'vespoken a
couple
of things,
today.
Mm-hmm.
like events likethis are kind
of rare where
it's like
climate talks Yeah.
And liveperformances

(43:52):
underneath
the
skeleton of a whale.
Yeah.
Um, do youthink that
that's,
there shouldbe more of
that like atfestivals and.
like And all the
different
Yeah, like, and
also you weresaying earlier
about
how
the joy
of
music when youwere talking
like how the like
parties are
much
better.
Yeah.
Like as some ofthe climate events,
are they needing
DJs
and
bands?
They
really
are.
They really are.

(44:13):
A good friend of
mine, andfellow climate
activists, DominiquePalmer always
says,
I don't
wanna be part
of your
revolution.
if I can't dance.
And I
really
love
that.
that saying, because
I think thattaps into the
necessity of.
joy, not
only as, you know,um, a motivator to
continuecampaigning,
but just part
of our humanity.
And I think that

(44:33):
one of the
biggest
shortcomings of
large
movements isthat they don't
have enough
street parties.
They
don't
have
enough festivalsand music and
dance and
art
imbued into their
existence.
Um,
and I
think that's
a huge
disservice because
it's
just a greatunifier.
It's a great
way
of bringing

(44:54):
people together.
It makes peoplefeel, and I
think feeling.
Is
what motivates
change
and without
care and connection,
why
bother,
you know?
So music for
me is, iseverything.
And, um,
I think goingdown this
route of
bringing musicand climate

(45:14):
action together.
and it doesn't even
have to, just beclimate action
as it's
colloquially
known,
is something that,
um, makes
me feel at home
because I
felt for so longthat these, these
worlds didn'tintersect, or
that they didn'tbelong together.
And and now that Iget to do this kind
of work, I'm like,
oh yeah, thisis possible.

(45:35):
This is, this iswhere real change
for me begins.

Sean Adams (45:39):
So I'll do very
quick five finaltwo questions.

Tori Tsui (45:42):
Mm.

Sean Adams (45:43):
One,
carbon credits
Oh God.
a bit of A nonsense
from what I
can tell.
Yeah, Yeah,
there was a study.
the Guardian
did
94% of rainforest
carbon
credits,certified by Vera.
Mm-hmm.
, they're theworld's leading.
certifier.

Tori Tsui (45:57):
Yeah.

Sean Adams: Um, what called (45:58):
undefined
phantom credits.
Yeah.
They don'trepresent real
climate benefits.
Mm-hmm.
Yet, Spotify, shell,Disney and all
these people buy
them like greenwashand I think like
Taylor Swift boughtloads of carbon
credits
to
offset her tour and

Tori Tsui (46:10):
Yeah.

Sean Adams (46:11):
what?
what?
should
people bedoing instead?
I mean, obviously.
not usingthe carbon in
the first place,I'm guessing, but

Tori Tsui (46:16):
I mean, I liken
carbon credits toa get out of jail
Free your card.
It doesn'tactually mean
that
you haven'tcommitted
the felony that
has put you
in
jail in
the
first
place.
It doesn't
erase
your past.
Um,
I
think that so
much
of what isout there,
technologicalsolutions,
uh.
tree
planting.
schemes.
I was waiting.

(46:36):
If you just

Sean Adams (46:37):
suddenly start talking
about
techno, then

Tori Tsui (46:38):
Oh yeah.
Techno, It's all
bogus.
I
mean,
and it's
just
a form of like greencolonialism, 'cause
What you find.
is It's
often the richestcountries and
people who
have
historically,
um, committedoppression,
uh, against
people in the
global southwho are,
say,
buying up pieces
their, of their land
to plant, plantnon-native trees on,

(47:02):
uh,
land wherethose things
won't thrive and
they'll just die.
I mean,
it's just anexcuse for
them to
keep
polluting asnormal, but
that's
not
actually
getting to the
crux of the matter.
It's not a solution.
It's just
like
the equivalent of.
mopping up the floorwhen the bath is
overflowing
instead of turningit off at the taps.
, it
seems

Sean Adams (47:19):
a
bit
like going intoconfession.
booth.
It's like
you're not
gonna undoyour crime
by
confessing.
to

Tori Tsui (47:23):
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And,
and,
and also it, just,
it
what it does
is it createsa social
license
for
these big polluters
to just
keep doingbusiness as
usual.
So much of,
um, the
investment that
fossil fuel
companies
make
into
so-called green
solutions
or
these
technologicalsolutions.
like,
oh gosh,
you

(47:43):
know, whetherit's carbon
sequestration and
absorbing
carbon
from the atmosphere,
They're notactually doing
it
for the benefit of.
the planet,they're doing
it to buythemselves more
time and to make
themselves seem
more
noble.
Um, and
that they'reon the right
side of thetransition,
when they're
not
because they'renot investing in
renewables
and they,
they invest
in
like
these
green energysolutions

(48:03):
that
actually
they
end
up withdrawing
from.
I think like Shell
invested in
this like algaeenergy solution.
And then they
pulled all theirfunding out of
it 'cause it just
was no longerrelevant to them.
So
yeah, I'm
not
a
fan of these kinds
of things.

Sean Adams (48:17):
So if
music fans
are listening tothis and musicians
and they want to
improve parts
of the music
ecosystem
and
also use music
to speak
either as an
example or
as
a
tool to kind ofhold the rest of the
world accountable,
what
does the transition
look like?
I mean, we've got

(48:39):
Mad man in, inas a president
in America'stalking about
windmills.
Um, but
like I've seenlike certain days
in
Scotland, likecompletely
empowered,completely
powered by wind.
Yeah.
So, cool.
And it's like yousee these like
tidal projects and
like that'senergy all
day.
Yeah.
Every day thetide goes in and
out every day.
you're gonna getenergy from there.

(48:59):
Like What Whatshould people
be pushing for?
Because obviouslydata centers mm-hmm.
are a
big.
issue.
Like theyuse a lot of
water.

Tori Tsui (49:06):
Sure.

Sean Adams (49:06):
In Ireland they've,
um, 'causeit's a tax
haven for a lot ofcompanies, yeah.
They were usingup more energy
than
all of the homes.
in some areas.
Yeah.
And
it's like You'dimagine those very
activated,
um, political voicesin the music scene
in Ireland would
start
to
speak up
about that.
Like what should
people be
speaking up for?
I guess
that's probably,
I
know that's avery big question.

(49:26):
Yeah,
that's a lot.

Tori Tsui (49:28):
I mean, it kind of goes back
to what.
we were speaking
about
before,
Which is what'spersonal to you?
Um, is therea particular
issue thatyou are very
passionate about
and
care
a lot about,
and how
do you kind oftie that into
the broader
issues that
exist within
society?
That's
what I
would
kind of say to
people workingin music, whether
that's,
you know, I wanna,protect this certain
species that

(49:48):
I really care aboutor this particular
habitat, or
I absolutelyhate the
impacts ofenvironmental.
racism on acommunity I grew
up
in, or you know,
the rise of
authoritarianism and
fascism is deeplyimpacting my
community.
I wanna campaignagainst that.
It's allconnected and I
think that
the
sooner we realize
that
everything isconnected, I'm
less inclined totell people what to

(50:09):
campaign for,instead just ask
them to campaignabout something
Um,
that feeds intothe wider issues
in society.
I would also,
because I'm
biased, I
obviously
Work in the climatespace, I would
tell people toendorse the fossil
fuel treaty.
I genuinelythink that's
our best way out
of this mess.
Like,
I'm not evenjust saying

(50:30):
that because I
work with them There
is a
reason I workwith them
Yeah.
because I
genuinely
believe in whatthey're doing
and
I feel like, but not

Sean Adams: short of offers (50:35):
undefined
are people that want
to work
with you.

Tori Tsui (50:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I mean it's,it's a phenomenal
solution and it'sgrounded in justice
and it is deeply
intersectionaland it has shown
that we can work.
with the arts.
I mean, we'veworked with
Massive Attack.
We can work with so
many other artists,big or small,
who want to
create that
change.
I mean, we
literallyhave our own,
um, musicalproject called,
this is Our
Home

(50:57):
Project, and they're
from small island
states in
the Pacific.
And.
They're literallyscouted by
Chris Martinbecause they
came
to.
Brian Eno
Studio one day Brian
sent a video of themto Chris Martin and
then they toured
all
around
Australia and
New Zealand
with
Chris
kind of
promoting
their music,
which is rooted
in,
um,
storytelling and

(51:18):
being
one with theenvironments
that they grew up in
and about preserving
culture andheritage.
and and it just goesto show it can be
done.
So, yeah.
I just tell peopleto endorse the
fossil fuel, treatand work with
us basically.

Sean Adams (51:33):
It
can be done.

Tori Tsui (51:34):
It
can be
done.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It

Sean Adams: feels like the (51:36):
undefined
final
word.
Yeah.
Thank
you
so much
for your time.

Tori Tsui (51:39):
It be, thank you.
Um,

Sean Adams: if people (51:40):
undefined
want to follow
you
and your
Oracle
like
knowledge,whereabouts would
you recommendthey go?
Uh,

Tori Tsui (51:46):
well, I guess you could say
I most active on
Instagram,
um,
at
Tori Tsui,so that's
T-O-R-I-T-S-U-I.

Speaker 6 (51:54):
under

Tori Tsui (51:54):
I always
forget there'san underscore.
I don't know whybecause at Tori Tsui
doesn't
even
exist as ausername, but I
can't change it.
Yeah.
So I have a random
underscore.
Um, but I would
also
implore people
to follow atFossil Fuel Treaty
'cause there'ssome really, really
important climateinformation
we share and also
campaigns and
yeah,
it's uh,
for lack
of a better
word,
gives
you a lot of hope.

(52:15):
Hope

Sean Adams: that's the (52:16):
undefined
last word.
Yeah.

All Episodes

How Music Fans Can Save The Planet - Tori Tsui on Billie Eilish, Brian Eno & Fossil Fuel Treaty

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How Music Fans Can Save The Planet - Tori Tsui on Billie Eilish, Brian Eno & Fossil Fuel Treaty