Episode Transcript
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From Esri, this is Engagement Matters, a show about people whose work depends on engaging
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with stakeholders to make meaningful change.
No matter how you define your community, you can learn from the experts we talk to as
they share their stories about motivating groups of people to care about issues and
take action.
On today's show, we'll talk with Shawnlei Breeding from the Audubon Center for Birds
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of Prey as she shares her strategies for engaging her volunteer community and others through
the Eagle Watch program.
Hi, Shawnlei and thanks for taking the time to talk to us today.
No problem.
I love talking about bald eagles and the work that we do, so happy to be here.
So before we get into how you engage with your volunteers and community in general,
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can you talk a little bit about the Audubon Center for Birds of Prey and the work that
you do there?
Sure.
So the Audubon Center for Birds of Prey is a rehab facility for raptors and a nature
center that's located in Maitland, Florida, which is just north of Orlando.
And it opened in 1979 at the time when, of course, the Endangered Species Act had been
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enacted into law.
And that really does guide the work that we've done over the past few decades as far as how
we treat the species that come in and how we rehabilitate them and release them and
take steps to protect and conserve them in our state.
But in addition to the rehab facility, we also have education programs and then conservation
science programs, which is the program I manage, Eagle Watch.
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And so Eagle Watch is housed at the center.
And my primary focus is on the conservation science part of monitoring eagles' nests in
Florida and collecting data and seeing how the eagles are doing in our state.
I can imagine how monitoring all the eagle nests in Florida is a challenge, especially
since eagles tend to not put address numbers on their nests when they build them.
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Pretty inconvenient.
But in all seriousness, I imagine you don't have the time personally to do all this monitoring
all on your own, right?
Definitely no.
You know, last season we had about 700 volunteers that monitored around 1,200 nests around the
state.
And so it's not something I could do on my own, of course, and monitoring involves people
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giving their time and their energy.
They are asked to monitor their assigned nests throughout the nesting season, which runs
October to May.
And they spend about 20 minutes at each nest collecting data.
You know, a lot of our volunteers have been in the program for years, sometimes decades.
We started in 1992.
So and these are all people that love, you know, helping and monitoring the nests.
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And that's something I always stress when I'm recruiting new volunteers, that this really
should be something fun because they are donating their extra time to go out and watch the nests.
And it's not really something they should be doing because they feel guilty or whatever
the case might be.
You know, that type of motivation isn't really sustainable for a program.
So of course, all the volunteers go through training first, be rigorous to explain what
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to look for when they're watching the nests, what the behaviors are, what type of data
we're collecting, how to responsibly monitor the nest so that they're not disturbing the
eagles.
So all of these things go into the training.
But this is really what we consider community science or some people call it citizen science.
Just the idea that these conservation questions and issues are really too large for just a
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handful of biologists or scientists to look at.
It really does take all of us working together and collecting the valuable data to help address
and answer these questions.
Yeah, I'm definitely seeing the reason why you'd put so much effort into training for
your volunteers, because without it, you'd have somebody like me out in the field recording
something like eagle nest #141, Condition (03:46):
Impressive, Time of day
And that'd be about it, which obviously is not scientific and certainly wouldn't be helpful
for you in the long run.
But that brings up another question that I had, which is, and you probably get this a
lot from the general community, why specifically bald eagles?
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Well, for the Eagle Watch program specifically, why not bald eagles, right?
They are a symbol of our nation.
A lot of people are very interested in how they're doing.
So at the time that the program started back in 1992, bald eagles were on the list of threatened
and endangered species.
And they were still in danger of disappearing forever.
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So that's really when the program started with that goal here in Florida of monitoring
bald eagle nests.
We have a really high rate of development in our state and seeing how these changes
in habitat were affecting our nesting eagles and making sure that future Floridians would
always be able to enjoy seeing bald eagles in our state.
And you know, they were eventually delisted in 2007, but they are still protected by federal
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laws.
So it's illegal to destroy their nest at any time.
You can't disturb them while they're nesting.
And that's really where some of our work comes in as we're monitoring these nests.
U.S. Fish and Wildlife has issued some guidelines that, you know, suggest distances that you
should keep away from a nest if you're doing some work.
So 330 feet is the main buffer for general construction that applies to, you know, nests,
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bald eagle nests.
So we're monitoring the nest and tracking to see how the eagles are responding.
And then all of that data goes into a nest map that other entities can use to see where
the nests are located.
So developers and, you know, permitting and zoning agencies can check to see, is there
one clear or close to this construction?
Do we need to, you know, consider how that might impact what they're going to build and
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so on?
So that's really kind of what we've been doing.
And then over the last few years, we've actually taken over maintaining the statewide nest
map. Florida Fish & Wildlife
previously had maintained that for many years, but stepped away from that to focus their
attention on some other species that are imperiled in our state.
So we kind of took up the mantle of keeping the nest map, updating it with our data.
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And then of course, you know, all the questions that normally would go to Florida Fish &
Wildlife now come to me about, you know, nest locations and nest updates, et cetera.
So in addition to my volunteers, I also have a lot of external stakeholders now that I
work with, but my volunteers really are the main bread and butter of my program anyway.
Yeah, that's definitely a lot of responsibility for you to shoulder.
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And it's similar to what I've heard from other people like you that both support an internal
community, which in your case is volunteers that you engage really deeply with.
And then also the external communities that you mentioned, which are really just different
groups of stakeholders like local planning officials or developers and so on.
But I found that external communities can be pretty difficult to engage with sometimes
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because, you know, people are busy, they're distracted by their things, or they just don't
know that a specific issue exists.
So you have to spend a lot of time building awareness first, and then you can finally,
once you get through that point, you can finally do the actual engagement work.
But you have a pretty cool way of cutting through to people and getting their attention
pretty quickly, right?
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Yeah.
So obviously it's not hard to get people excited about bald eagles.
It's something we all really care about.
But seeing one in person, it takes it to a whole new level for people.
And we're really fortunate at the Center for Birds of Prey that we do have some ambassador
raptors, including an ambassador bald eagle.
And so we can use these birds through education programs, going off site to local schools,
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or, you know, through center tours as people come visit us.
They can see eagles and these other birds of prey up close.
And using falconry equipment, and all of these birds are trained to go on the glove
and, you know, they all have the disposition for doing education programs.
So you know, what we have, though, that we're really fortunate to have is Francis, who's
our ambassador bald eagle.
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And he came to us as a two-day-old chick, and he came in a shoebox to the Center for
Rehab.
And we determined that he was not releasable due to his injury.
So he's been with us for over 30 years.
And he draws a lot of fans, obviously, any time we take him to a festival or to a school.
If you could just imagine seeing this giant eagle standing right there, you know, the
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beautiful white head and tail and the bright yellow legs and that piercing gaze.
I mean, if you ever lock eyes with an eagle, you're not going to forget it.
So it really does captivate people and they pay attention to what you're saying, hopefully,
rather than just watching the eagle, which is a bit of a challenge.
But it really does get them engaged to want to take action to help protect the species
and make sure that, you know, eagles are doing well in our state.
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It is really amazing, been so special to get to work with them.
I mean, even from a personal perspective, I love that part of my job as well.
I would definitely love that part of the job, too.
It's just kind of a bummer that Francis doesn't, you know, sign autographs for his fans.
I mean, they go all the way there to meet him and he's not going to sign an autograph.
Come on.
But in all seriousness, though, you have a pretty impressive hook that a lot of people
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would be envious of.
But besides having a good hook, I'm curious kind of what your thoughts are on how location
impacts engagement, specifically the tendency of people to care more about things that are
happening maybe in their backyard rather than things that are happening on the other side
of the country or to the planet.
Have you noticed that and how have you dealt with it?
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Well, that's definitely true.
You know, it's easier to care about something that's going on in your community rather than,
you know, around the world.
Unfortunately, it's just how we're wired.
A lot of conservation biologists are looking at broader picture things like wetlands or
specific species in general.
But if we can tie that to something local where people are living, they can understand
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the issue and how it relates to them.
It's, you know, it's much easier to get them involved.
And we had a good example of that here at Orlando.
We actually had a bald eagle nest that was reported that's in an urban park next to an
underprivileged elementary school in a predominantly African-American community in downtown Orlando.
And so we were able to connect with that school.
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And it was really cool to be able to talk with them about bald eagles.
And then we scheduled a field trip.
They have an after-school group of young scientists.
And so these were all kids that are already interested in science.
And we were able to take them over to the park and show them the nest and get them some
binoculars and they got to see the bald eagle family up close and see what they were doing.
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And it really engaged them on that front.
You know, obviously, even as children, they understand this is our national symbol, but
getting to see the eagles living in that community where they live, you know, experiencing the
same things they live and experience every day, I think really did help them make a connection.
And maybe hopefully one day we'll see some of those future scientists getting involved
in conservation.
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Yeah, let's hope so.
It definitely seems like the eagles planned that out a bit in advance for you, since it
was definitely the perfect combination of timing and location.
But honestly, I think it's neat that you're willing and able to engage with the kids while
they're in their formative years.
It also helps to bring in other members of their family, I would imagine, like their
siblings, their parents, their grandparents, that might either be there in person or just
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listening to the kid that you engaged with while they're talking at the dinner table.
What you're really doing is you're maximizing the experience of a single visit to reach
the kids and potentially touching multiple generations of people within their family.
Exactly.
I mean, we do have an age limit for monitoring for Eagle Watch just for, you know, safety
and liability reasons.
But we do welcome families and we do have parents that join so that they can take their
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children out to monitor.
And it's really great to see the whole family get involved, because I think the children
are the future, as they say, they really do influence, you know, their family's behavior.
If they get passionate about something, it's crazy what a difference they can make.
You know, they seem so small, but they're very powerful.
Yeah, absolutely.
But going back to something you just mentioned a few seconds ago that I'd like to key into
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a little bit more is how the kids really connected with bald eagles in general by seeing the
similarities between themselves and the eagles.
I assume that that's something that you try to help anyone that you're talking about eagles
to experience is to feel that sense of personalization, that the issue isn't just some thought experiment
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that happens to somebody else, but instead it's a real experience that touches me as
an individual deeply.
Yeah, you know, it's an easy way to get people to care if they can find something relatable,
you know, with that species instead of just seeing it as a bird that has a nest maybe
that's preventing me from doing some construction I want to do.
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You can share with them, these birds face the same struggles we do.
They are trying to find a safe place to live.
They're trying to find food to eat.
They're trying to find enough food to feed their young and raise their young to adulthood
and have their young go off and hopefully to be productive members of the bird society,
so to speak.
So it's, you know, they face similar pressures that we do.
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And when you can make that fight more human and relatable, it really does help people
think about what they're doing and how they can make some changes to help protect species
and make sure that they're giving them a good safe place to raise their family, just like
they would want to have a good safe place to raise their family.
And one of the best tools I've seen for this is we have a number of eagle nest cams around
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the country, of course, but here in Florida, we have several active eagle nest cams.
And one of them is down in Southwest Florida and people name the eagles that use these
nests.
They typically, the same pair is there year after year.
And so people, you know, had fallen in love with this female at this specific nest.
They called her Harriet.
She'd been there since 2011, nesting there.
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So people got a, you know, bird's eye view, pun intended, of her nesting activity and,
you know, her mate and all the work they did to raise their family and protect them and
provide food and all the challenges they faced throughout the years.
So people were really, you know, tied to this bird.
And then unfortunately, earlier this year, in the spring, she went missing right after
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the chicks had hatched.
And that's not usual for a bird.
Like why would she have done that?
They're, you know, monogamous pair.
They typically stay together.
So we're not quite sure what happened, but everyone who watched this camera was devastated.
She eventually never returned.
We're not sure if she perished or who knows what might've happened.
And her sudden disappearance was really traumatic for all the people that watched that nest
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and follow it.
And then watching the male struggle to feed the two babies on his own, it was just a whole
saga.
But it really does, you know, draw people in.
It's just crazy how people get so enmeshed in these eagle cams and watching up close
and seeing what they're doing.
Yeah, I can imagine.
I mean, that's a really sad outcome for such an inspiring story.
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But I mean, if we're going to try to stay positive here and try to find some kind of
silver lining in Harriet's story, it must be that she helped galvanize more people to
the cause of eagle conservation that maybe wouldn't have been motivated to get involved
otherwise.
It really just reinforces the realization that we're all living on the same planet.
And just as human lives can be delicate or precarious sometimes, so are eagles.
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So speaking of how things impact us on a personal level, I'm curious to get your thoughts on
how you include a wide range of voices and perspectives in the work that you do.
Obviously your volunteers are spread across the state geographically.
They might live in a really urban area or they might live in a really rural area or
something in between.
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But the question is, how do you intentionally reach people from different groups across
the range of differences that seem to separate us into groups by geography, race, ethnicity,
income, language, et cetera?
I think it's a challenge we all face.
I know a lot of the volunteers that tend to be involved in my program tend to come from
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a fairly common demographic.
They're retired, they're older, they've had experiences growing up where they had opportunities
to get involved with and care about conservation issues.
And that's great.
But we want to make sure that we are having as well-rounded and as broad impact as possible.
So we do want to recruit and involve people from all different backgrounds and people
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that have different voices, different things they're passionate about, making sure that
we're getting all the perspectives on the work that we're doing.
So it is challenging because it does require a decent amount of time and the ability to
do that as far as monitoring the nests throughout the nesting season.
And so that's a big ask going through the training, et cetera.
And if you're someone who's trying to work two jobs and raise a family, your opportunities
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to get involved may be less.
But in the ways that we can, we really do try to recruit broadly and make sure that
we're throwing a broad net, so to speak, to try and round up volunteers and really focus
and bring those different perspectives of a broader range than just one outlook.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I get it.
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Life gets busy sometimes.
And maybe even if I have the best intentions, when I do sign up, things might change, my
car might break down.
And then suddenly I realize that I don't have the time or the means to volunteer anymore.
So it makes sense to me that people would, for whatever reason, drop out and hopefully
be replaced by other volunteers.
But it seems like that's something that you've learned to expect for some percentage of the
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volunteers and not to be derailed or deflated by it.
And in fact, have that knowledge kind of help you design ways to enable people to engage
in ways that fit their needs and their abilities more than just fitting the center's need.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, one size fits all.
Sometimes doesn't catch anything.
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It is harder to reach different groups, but it really is worth it for the outcome of what
you're trying to accomplish.
I believe it really does give you a much more long-lasting impact and a richer data set
and a richer outcome.
We're very fortunate at the Center for Birds of Prey, where we're located, we are actually
right on the dividing line between Maitland, Florida, which is the very affluent suburb
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north of Orlando, and then about 100 feet down the road, you cross into Eatonville,
which is a historic, really cool African-American community that was actually founded 10 years
after the Emancipation Proclamation and one of the first self-governing African-American
cities in the U.S.
So it's a really amazing place to be right in between the two of them.
But 150 years on, that town, it faces its struggles, obviously.
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Households in Eatonville earn less on average than the income of neighbors in Maitland.
So some of the kids that go to the schools in Eatonville might not be able to afford
some of the camps that we offer at the Center, but we've been able to partner with different
foundations who support our work to provide funding and free access for these children
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to come to our camps over the summer to make sure that everyone gets a chance to be involved
and experience coming to the Center for Birds of Prey and seeing what we do and getting
involved in the fun, cool activities they do at camp.
So we really do try to mitigate some of these differences between the two communities that
we straddle by finding ways to reach out to them both.
And then we also do things like, we have a large Hispanic population in the Orlando area,
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so we'll go on some of the popular Hispanic radio stations and do advertising for our
events and we have some of our materials in Spanish.
So we don't do this just to kind of pat ourselves on the back.
Of course, diversity is really something that's critical to the success of our programs.
And that's really where our strength comes from.
Yeah, it sounds like it.
And it sounds like you've really ingrained this culture of diversity into the program
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and the Center so that it's something that really guides your programming at its core,
rather than something that you just tack onto a program that's already developed kind of
as an afterthought or to check a box.
And I think that that's really powerful because that's what most organizations are trying
to move towards, a more deliberate and inclusive approach to diversity, not something that's
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ad hoc or kind of haphazard.
But really talking about this brings up another question for me of how you balance the challenge
of planning engagement, say for the next year or the next nesting season, versus making
sure that you have enough capacity at the ready to respond to things that pop up like
Harriet's sudden disappearance or some other current event that suddenly pushes eagles
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into the mainstream for a day.
Well, like you said, it is kind of a balance.
You do your best to plan.
And we definitely make sure that we build programs that can reach different communities
that have a different focus, that we understand what our goal is with this program.
If we're going into a certain school to talk to children about conservation, it does get
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adapted based on the school that we're going to, the age of the children, what their socioeconomic
background might be.
But at the other time, you do need to leave some room for flexibility to kind of adapt
on the fly.
So being open to whatever opportunities might arise, how you can just jump in and invest
in that.
If somebody calls you and suggests maybe a new partnership that you hadn't thought of,
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let's do that.
Let's see how it goes.
You're kind of broadly sowing your seeds and some will sprout and grow and some won't,
but that's really all you can do.
There's so much of it that's really not in your control, I guess, is what I'm trying
to say.
So do your best to plan and make efforts, but you just got to keep going at it and see
what works and follow what works and invest in that.
I agree.
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That's definitely a gold nugget of wisdom there.
And it reminds me a lot of how project managers work when there's a strategy that's developed
and then a plan to implement the strategy.
But all throughout, there's a level of agility that's also built in so that you have the
capability to be kind of opportunistic almost if something were to pop up.
So you don't let perfection itself be the enemy of forward movement or progress.
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And for you, it really all comes back to the volunteers that you have, right?
I mean, you know, you're recruiting them, you're training them, you're supporting them
all throughout the season, all to give them and the program the best chances of being successful.
It just seems like that's a really critical component for you, making sure that your volunteers
are supported.
You know, definitely supporting your volunteers, making sure they feel appreciated, that they
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understand the value of their work is so critical.
So when someone signs up to be a volunteer, obviously they go through training, they understand
the commitment they're making.
But I also want them to see that they're part of a larger community.
We have a Facebook group and we have other ways for them to connect with each other so
they can really get involved.
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We have groups of volunteers from different parts of the state that have met each other
and travel around together and go see nests and stuff.
So it's really cool to see that connection as they're bonding over their mutual love
of eagles and their mutual involvement in the program.
And then of course, as the administrator, I'm regularly communicating with them through
emails throughout the season, giving them updates, information.
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You know, we also make sure that we always have an end of season celebration at the end
of each nesting season that we celebrate the work.
And I give a presentation that shares the numbers and the data and all that they collected.
So just making sure that they understand how much they do and how much it's valued, how
many stakeholders rely on the data that they're providing.
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You know, US Fish & Wildlife, Florida Fish & Wildlife rely on their data and they're
always thanking me for that amazing work that our volunteers do.
And it's just really a way of engaging them and letting them know that this is valuable,
that your work is not in vain.
So the feedback I've gotten is they really do enjoy these special events and hearing
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the emails and the updates.
Sometimes we use fun story maps through Esri products.
We can do a fun story map about an event or something that happened or the way we protected
a nest.
There's just so many ways to share the story and stories are so compelling.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And coming from someone that volunteers like this, sometimes I've found that it's really
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heartwarming to do the actual work itself, but it's maybe even equally impactful to see
the impact that the entire team or the program is making as a whole.
And of course, seeing it in different ways, like you're mentioning in a story map or a
dashboard or just a simple map, it makes a bigger impact to you personally.
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And it helps reaffirm that, yes, I am making a difference and even better, we together
as the volunteers are making a bigger difference.
So you've mentioned technology a few times, and I'm curious what types of technology you
use to support the program from a data collection standpoint, since that's so important.
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But also what types of technology you use to support your volunteers and ultimately
manage the entire program?
Yeah, definitely.
So Esri technology has really been my lifesaver as the program manager.
The program has tripled in size in the seven years I've been in this role.
And I'm just one person still.
So getting technology that helped me manage the program growth was so critical.
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Obviously, when the program started back in 1992, people used paper forms.
They would go out, write down their data on the paper form and mail it into the program
manager.
And then that person had to compile all the data into some sort of spreadsheet.
And that was pretty much 1992 to 2015, when my predecessor kind of cobbled together a
database and a map that by the time I inherited the program really wasn't sustainable.
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And so I reached out to the National Audubon GIS team and said, here's what we're doing.
Can you help me create a platform that will allow me to manage the volunteers and the
nests and the nest data?
So that's what we did.
We have an amazing setup being Survey123.
So the volunteers can use an app or the web form to collect their data.
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And then as they submit that data, it loads in real time to a nest map.
So it all ties to the nest locations on a map.
I can easily view the information, see what's going on.
Volunteers can view it.
And then we also have a public facing nest map that anyone, external stakeholders can
access to look up locations, et cetera.
So it's been incredible to have that technology really help me manage and coordinate and understand
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and analyze the data that we're collecting.
And one of the other really cool things that we did a couple of years ago was we implemented
the ArcGIS Hub platform to further organize my volunteer community.
And initially one of the issues we had when they were submitting their survey forms was
because we had so many volunteers, they had to share a login.
We didn't have the capacity to set up 6 or 700 individual logins for each of these
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volunteers.
And so they were typing their name and email into the form and it really caused a lot of
headaches at the end of the season because nobody types everything perfectly every time.
You know, it took a lot of cleanup at the end of the season to get rid of the errors
and the typos, et cetera.
So with ArcGIS Hub, the fabulous thing about that is it finally gave us the option to give
every volunteer their own login.
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So now when they log in, it automatically notes who submitted the observation.
There's no typos in their name or their email.
And it's a great way to connect.
There's a lot of really cool features that I'm still investigating with Hub as far as,
you know, organizing and connecting the different sections of volunteers and ways to communicate
with them using that platform.
But it's definitely, you know, an amazing way to help organize the program of this size
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as it continues to grow.
And you know, it's great being on the cutting edge of using this technology for such a large
community science program.
That was Shawnlei Breeding from the Audubon Center for Birds of Prey, sharing her work
and engagement tips and tricks.
If you live in Florida and want to get involved with the Eagle Watch program, visit cbop.audubon.org.
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If you don't live in Florida, you can visit the National Audubon Society's website to
learn about conservation programs in your area by visiting audubon.org.
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a colleague and don't forget to check
out the other podcasts available from Esri, including Field Notes and Reinventing Planning.
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Learn more at Esri.com.