June 23, 2026 • 34 mins
In this episode of Kinwise: AI Insights for Education Leaders, host Lydia Kumar sits down with Sandra Jin, Senior Director of Innovation and AI Strategy at Leading Educators. Sandra has spent nearly a decade designing professional learning grounded in three tenets: agency, advocacy, and belonging. This conversation is about what it looks like to bring AI into schools in a way that honors what educators and students need, and Sandra's grounding question: who are you becoming through how you use AI? Key Takeaways for Education Leaders -Emotional weight is the starting point. When teachers resist AI, it's about expertise, identity, and the fear that what made them great is being taken away. Understanding what's underneath that reaction changes the entire conversation. -The VATT framework gives teachers a "why." Leading Educators uses a simple lens to help educators make technology decisions: is this AI use helping you do more, do better, or do new? -One rural teacher's lesson shows what AI can actually do. A STEM teacher at Holbrook USD was worried AI would erode students' thinking. She designed a lesson where students had to defend a pulley system plan to a Gemini-built bot, evaluate the bot's response, and justify every revision. -Rural districts are leading the way. In the RAISE Collaborative, having the superintendent, school leader, and teachers in the same room working on the same problem eliminated the buy-in struggle that slows larger systems down. Momentum that would take months elsewhere happened in weeks. -Data infrastructure is unglamorous but foundational. AI has become a mirror for the disorganized systems schools have patched together for years. The practical path forward: start where data is already clean, build something small, and expand from there.
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.999And those values show up in everything she does, from her own kitchen table to her work with school districts across the country.
.001Sandra is the senior director of innovation and AI strategy at Leading Educators, where she leads national initiatives to integrate AI-enabled practices into student-centered systems. 5 00:00:30,159.999 --> 00:00:39,399.997 She's a former DC classroom teacher, a 2025 EdSafe Women in AI Fellow, and the architect behind programs like the RAISE Collaborative and the AI Schools Collaborative. 6 00:00:39,619.999 --> 00:00:52,889.237492471 Sandra, welcome to Kinwise\\ Sandra, I'm so excited to have you here today to talk with you about what you're learning and seeing in AI and education, and, even in the small business space. 7 00:00:53,149.237492471 --> 00:01:00,639.236492471 But to start, I just wanna ask you to tell a little bit about your story and how you ended up working in AI and education. 8 00:01:00,889.237492471 --> 00:01:02,918.274807795 so yeah, how did you end up here? Yeah. 9 00:01:03,198.274807795 --> 00:01:04,38.274807795 thanks for having me. 10 00:01:04,68.273807795 --> 00:01:07,538.275807795 So I am the senior director of innovation at Leading Educators. 11 00:01:07,908.273807795 --> 00:01:09,188.274807795 I was a teacher before. 12 00:01:09,188.274807795 --> 00:01:17,268.272807795 I would taught in Washington, DC, for about seven years, and then I've been at Leading Educators, it'll be 10 years in October. 13 00:01:17,608.272807795 --> 00:01:28,268.273807795 I've had many different roles at Leading Educators, and joined the innovation team about three years ago, and really dived into the AI work, almost right when I joined. 14 00:01:28,588.271807795 --> 00:01:32,848.273807795 I am, I'm also a mom of three kids, all in elementary school. 15 00:01:32,848.273807795 --> 00:01:36,598.268807795 Actually, next year my oldest will be in middle school. 16 00:01:36,918.273807795 --> 00:01:56,350.27680779 And I think- The thing that brought me into this work originally is just that I really love being with people, with students, with adults, like learning with people, and like designing spaces for people that make people feel good, like that people can co-own. 17 00:01:56,630.27680779 --> 00:02:02,380.27780779 That collective ownership piece is really important to me, And I think it came, a lot of it from my daughter. 18 00:02:02,390.27680779 --> 00:02:25,10.28080779 So my daughter has a diagnosis of selective mutism, and so working with her therapists for multiple years taught me a lot about like building the muscle of like self-advocacy and agency, and how hard it is to advocate for yourself and to advocate for other people, and to create that space of belonging for yourself and for other people. 19 00:02:25,330.28080779 --> 00:02:39,507.25246413 And I translated a lot of that into how I think about students and what students need, what all people need and deserve, and then leveraging the tools we have at our disposal to create that kind of space. 20 00:02:39,517.25046413 --> 00:02:45,577.24846413 And I think AI is just another one of those tools that we have in a, in our toolkit towards that aim. 21 00:02:46,444.73042073 --> 00:02:48,874.72742073 You said two things that really stuck with me. 22 00:02:48,874.73142073 --> 00:03:03,854.72642073 So one, you talked a lot about creating the space of belonging and self-advocacy and thinking about how do you shape a space for people who learn, and there are some profound s- it, profound differences in how people view AI in education. 23 00:03:03,854.73342073 --> 00:03:05,44.73342073 Some people are really excited. 24 00:03:05,294.72742073 --> 00:03:07,844.72942073 Some people are really scared or skeptical. 25 00:03:08,204.73142073 --> 00:03:21,964.74242073 And so I'm wondering, as you have been working with different individuals w- with, when it comes to AI, how have you I feel like that would be really powerful to be able to create these spaces of belonging where people feel safe. 26 00:03:22,284.73742073 --> 00:03:41,457.07091585 Have you seen that be true that there's some, I don't know, relationship between feeling safe and your ability to learn something that's so new and dynamic and potentially scary for people? Yeah, I think so, because I think people bring in-- There's so much emotional weight, I think, to AI. 27 00:03:41,457.07091585 --> 00:03:55,197.07091585 I think if you just think about it as a technical thing of there's this new initiative that's being thrown at me, and that's the only lens that we use, it's very easy to be dismissive of people who are super, pro or against it. 28 00:03:55,207.07091585 --> 00:04:05,747.07191585 But when you understand the nuances of what's underneath it and people's emotional reactions to it, there is so many more ways to connect to how people are responding to it. 29 00:04:05,797.07191585 --> 00:04:08,537.07291585 there is fear of the unknown. 30 00:04:08,817.07291585 --> 00:04:13,147.07291585 There is, uncertainty about my expertise now as a teacher. 31 00:04:13,167.07091585 --> 00:04:32,227.07091585 I have this decades of expertise in this content area, and now I have this sense of who am I now as an educator? Potentially my expertise is now invalidated, or, the parts of the work that were most important to me, like lesson planning, is-- The nuances of lesson planning are so important to who I am as a teacher, and potentially that's being taken away. 32 00:04:32,227.07091585 --> 00:04:50,707.06691586 If you understand what is underneath that and the sense of belonging and identity that comes from that, and you really can dig into what people are bringing into the conversation, you can have such more nuanced understanding of where people are coming into it and have a much more meaningful conversation. 33 00:04:50,997.06691585 --> 00:04:59,627.06891586 And in a way, find out how to leverage AI in a way that protects those things and enhances those things instead of just trying to replace it or do things more quickly. 34 00:05:00,147.06891586 --> 00:05:02,257.06891586 Yeah, And so I'm wondering about examples. 35 00:05:02,277.06991586 --> 00:05:13,537.07191586 You talked about this teacher who feels like their identity is connected to how well they lesson plan, and now you have a tool that can do a lot of that for you or more, more quickly. 36 00:05:13,887.07191586 --> 00:05:42,546.38824919 How do you see people whose identity as an educator is connected to some aspect that now AI can augment or at some points replace? How have you seen people navigate that and leverage the AI toolkit and move past that deep emotional fear response they might have? Yeah, I can give you an example there was a teacher, this is from, Holbrook USD. 37 00:05:42,576.38824919 --> 00:05:46,916.38924919 This is one of our, RAISE collabora- one of our rural districts that we worked with in the fall. 38 00:05:47,276.38824919 --> 00:06:01,36.38824919 And this teacher was really, passionate about protecting students' thinking, like doing the, holding the cognitive lift and making sure that students were not just going through the motions. 39 00:06:01,36.38824919 --> 00:06:06,59.72058252 And she was really concerned about AI doing all of the thinking students. 40 00:06:06,59.72058252 --> 00:06:12,649.72258252 And so she was, v- had some hesitations about h- how AI was being implemented in cases that she had seen and come across. 41 00:06:12,999.72158252 --> 00:06:28,949.72058252 And so knowing that this is her priorities around, holding the intellectual work and holding the cognitive lift, she was able to, through our collaborative experience, design instructional strategies that supported this focus area that was so critical for her. 42 00:06:29,389.71958252 --> 00:06:32,69.71758252 And so she taught, middle school STEM. 43 00:06:32,449.72358252 --> 00:06:49,606.38824919 And so she had this project that was around like a pulley, students like designing a pulley system And so students had to generate their ideas, and then they had to take their plan for their pulley system, and then they had to present it, to each other. 44 00:06:49,626.38824919 --> 00:07:17,656.39024919 They had to get feedback on it, and then they had to go in front of this Gemini created bot who would evaluate or be the judge of their plan, and then they had to justify their decisions, and then get the evaluation or the judgment from the bot, and then also evaluate the bot's response and make decisions about what they would revise to make their, plan stronger, what they would choose not to revise and why. 45 00:07:17,866.38924919 --> 00:07:25,246.38824919 They had to hold all the intellectual work of not just creating the plan, but defending, revising, and then justifying in order to be able to move forward. 46 00:07:25,656.39024919 --> 00:07:35,156.38824919 So not only was she able to protect the cognitive lift of students with intellectual work, but she was able to increase it in the ways that she was using AI in the classroom. 47 00:07:35,516.39024919 --> 00:08:14,266.38924919 So instead of just saying, "Everyone's gonna use AI to create your lesson plans faster," she was like, "Okay, what is my priority? What do I want to be true about my, the learning experiences I'm creating? And then how do I use AI strategically as a lever to increase or to enable that to be even more true in my classroom?" I love that because you're getting down past the, I think, a lot about compliance versus just your own personal conviction or why you believe that you wanna do something, and I think you may be in a situation where people are l- where a teacher may feel that they need to learn how to integrate AI and use it in some way. 48 00:08:14,546.38724919 --> 00:08:21,626.38824919 But being able to understand your deeper why and then approach your use case accordingly- Yeah I think can be so transformative. 49 00:08:21,676.38424919 --> 00:08:28,886.38624919 I, any tool can, any tool, I think, can be just checking a checkbox, or it can be something that really takes us to the next level. 50 00:08:29,706.38324919 --> 00:08:30,126.38324919 Yeah. 51 00:08:30,126.38324919 --> 00:08:34,476.38224919 So we have, at Leading Educators, we have this framework called the VATT. 52 00:08:34,536.38524919 --> 00:08:37,416.38724919 It's the Value of Technology on Teaching. 53 00:08:37,656.38024919 --> 00:08:41,766.37124919 the framework that helps teachers to c- make those decisions about technology. 54 00:08:41,776.37524919 --> 00:08:59,716.39024919 Does it, does whatever tool or AI use that you're considering help you to do more, do better, or to do new so that you are either is it helping you increase the efficiency? You really are just trying to do something quicker so that with that saved time you can, build relationships or, reuse that time for something else. 55 00:08:59,716.39224919 --> 00:09:17,906.38024919 Or are you trying to do something better, like actually transform your instruction to be more effective, in a specific way, or are you trying to do new, like actually transform or h- do a, do- Take a wild leap or a brand new thing that hasn't been done before with your use of AI. 56 00:09:18,136.38024919 --> 00:09:24,696.38024919 If you're clear on what exactly you're trying to accomplish with the technology, then you're able to measure its effectiveness more clearly. 57 00:09:24,996.38024919 --> 00:09:33,276.38224919 And so having that kind of language for what you're trying to use the technology for helps you to just be more thoughtful in your approach of using it. 58 00:09:33,846.38224919 --> 00:09:36,331.38174919 Yeah, that's so catchy, to use it more, better, and new. 59 00:09:36,331.38174919 --> 00:09:36,466.38124919 Yeah. 60 00:09:36,466.38124919 --> 00:09:39,266.38124919 I feel like that can really- Yeah stick with you, and that's helpful. 61 00:09:39,476.38024919 --> 00:09:47,236.37824919 It's a simple way to quickly evaluate, like why am I- Yeah why am I using this in the first place? So I like that. 62 00:09:47,286.37824919 --> 00:09:48,656.37924919 that's a great- Yeah a great insight. 63 00:09:49,6.37624919 --> 00:10:02,56.37824919 I'm curious, okay, so we've talked a little bit about what it looks like for a teacher, and then but we also have principals who are leading schools and huge groups of teachers, and they're also trying to navigate new technology coming in. 64 00:10:02,56.37824919 --> 00:10:17,936.38124919 And so I'm curious about where you see principals potentially getting lost when it comes to leading AI initiatives, and where you see what as the most important things to focus on when you're leading teachers to use technology effectively. 65 00:10:18,786.37624919 --> 00:10:35,870.38024919 I think it's really challenging because- AI, because it's moving so quickly, that there is work that principals are doing to be streamlined, to be safe, to be, to protect students' data, and to be very intentional in their rollout. 66 00:10:36,150.38024919 --> 00:10:43,460.38124919 And at the same time, teachers are being marketed at around the clock on social media everywhere to try this new app. 67 00:10:43,460.38124919 --> 00:10:48,560.38024919 And so there's also the grassroots exploration of AI platforms that are... 68 00:10:48,580.38024919 --> 00:10:52,110.38024919 It's just proliferat- pr- proliferating everywhere. 69 00:10:52,430.38024919 --> 00:10:56,230.37924919 So it's really hard to be able to manage across what everyone is doing. 70 00:10:56,570.38024919 --> 00:11:03,50.38324919 the excitement of all these flashy things, it's really hard to figure out what is the most strategic path forward. 71 00:11:03,430.38024919 --> 00:11:08,390.38024919 there's also a lot of pressure to show what you're doing, whether it's to a board or to the community. 72 00:11:08,390.38024919 --> 00:11:11,980.38324919 There's a lot of conflicting, pulls on a school leader. 73 00:11:12,320.38424919 --> 00:11:28,107.04791586 And so I think with all of this curiosity and all of this imagination of all the things that AI can do, there also needs to be a really clear balance of something that's a little bit less flashy and exciting. 74 00:11:28,107.04791586 --> 00:11:39,17.05291586 But what are the conditions you need to build to sustain and to scale any of it? what has come up in a lot of our programming and a lot of our accelerators is things like data infrastructure. 75 00:11:39,717.04791586 --> 00:11:48,147.04491586 It's not very exciting, but AI has become a mirror or has shined a light on a lot of the challenges that we've put a Band-Aid on. 76 00:11:48,247.04491586 --> 00:12:04,367.04041586 a lot of times data will live in Salesforce, but also a Google spreadsheet, and also in three, four other platforms, and also a sticky note on the back of a laptop where you're just, like, holding little notes that you just keep going back to and you just remember. 77 00:12:04,687.03741586 --> 00:12:15,867.04141586 And so when things are living in all these different places and you're trying to get AI to organize everything, you're realizing, oh, all of our data is so disorganized, and we have to find a way to organize all of this. 78 00:12:15,867.04141586 --> 00:12:43,937.04341586 So for schools to recognize, we need to have all the conditions in place technically for this to be able to- Actually function in a way that can scale, is really critical around organizational readiness, both technically and also strategically, right? 'Cause you can take a tool and it can be, like, totally transformative in one school, and also it can do nothing or it can actually be harmful in another school, the same exact tool. 79 00:12:44,357.04441586 --> 00:12:46,707.04241586 And the difference is not the tool itself, it's... 80 00:12:47,307.04241586 --> 00:12:54,447.04441585 Again, it's the conditions, like how it's rolled out, how much time the rollout gets the purpose it serves, the alignment to your instructional vision. 81 00:12:54,457.04341585 --> 00:13:06,927.04441586 Is it just tacked on or is it clearly aligned to your portrait of a graduate or what you want to be true for your students or your instructional priorities, your goals, your student outcomes? The training and ongoing support. 82 00:13:06,937.04641586 --> 00:13:07,717.04541586 Yeah, go ahead. 83 00:13:07,837.04441586 --> 00:13:07,927.04441586 Yeah. 84 00:13:08,147.04541586 --> 00:13:30,97.04241586 Have you seen for schools or districts that have been really successful on this data piece, which in some ways is the foundation for an effective AI rollout- have, w- how have you seen people effectively consolidate data when it does live on sticky notes and- Google Spreadsheets and in, uh, PowerSchool or SalesSource or, or wherever else? Yeah. 85 00:13:30,627.04641586 --> 00:13:53,97.05041586 So what I have seen is starting small, not trying to do everything all at once, and if you are building AI systems or rolling out new AI initiatives and it is incorporating lots of data, starting with places where you already have strong data infrastructure, not trying to rebuild or reconfigure just for the sake of AI. 86 00:13:53,377.05041586 --> 00:14:07,417.04841585 But starting where things are already really smooth and already really well-organized, and then adding the AI infrastructure piece on top of it as a place to start small, figure out what works, and then build from there. 87 00:14:07,917.04641585 --> 00:14:17,957.04441586 I think in general, these smaller cycles of testing, piloting, and then building are so much more effective than trying to tr- transform everything all at once. 88 00:14:18,867.04341586 --> 00:14:19,537.04241586 Have you... 89 00:14:19,577.04241585 --> 00:14:32,83.04741585 Do you have a story of a school or a district that was able to consolid- you know to start small, choose something, and then see success in that area they started in? I have in terms of instructional strategies. 90 00:14:32,133.04741586 --> 00:14:35,713.04741586 In terms of system transformation, it's something that we're looking forward to. 91 00:14:35,713.04741586 --> 00:14:44,543.04741586 We are, So I'll share a story of where- what we've learned, and then how we're transitioning or how we're hoping to transition next into some system scaling. 92 00:14:44,923.04641586 --> 00:14:44,963.04641586 Awesome. 93 00:14:44,973.04741586 --> 00:14:54,303.04841586 So our RAISE collaborative has been, this first round happened in the fall, and it was with seven rural school districts, in Arizona and Texas. 94 00:14:55,223.04941586 --> 00:15:04,333.04741586 And we work with them in these small cycles to design and test AI-enabled instructional strategies grounded in their instructional vision. 95 00:15:04,463.04741586 --> 00:15:19,613.04941586 So what do they want to be true for their students? What are their instructional priorities? What are some of the biggest challenges for them to achieve those? And what are some AI-shaped, solutions that can help address some of those challenges? And then they tested and piloted those. 96 00:15:19,723.04941586 --> 00:15:25,923.04941586 We had this hunch that rural districts would be a great place to test these, and that hunch was confirmed. 97 00:15:25,953.04941586 --> 00:15:40,993.04941586 Because they are so small and also nimble and resourceful and innovative, we were able to see some really powerful, shifts that were able to happen even in the very short, I think it was seven or eight weeks long, cycles. 98 00:15:41,903.05041586 --> 00:15:45,603.04941586 We were also able to see their plans for what they would do next. 99 00:15:45,603.04941586 --> 00:15:55,803.05041586 So one school was like, "We are going to now, move forward into piloting with all of our schools across the district based off of our n- initial pilot." 100 00:15:55,823.05241586 --> 00:16:05,513.04841586 Another school was like, "We're gonna start launching a, a mentoring program for our, for all of our teachers based off of the work that we did here, like a AI champions mentoring program." 101 00:16:05,843.04741586 --> 00:16:12,123.04841586 And to see the iterations of where they're able to scale based off of these smaller rounds was really incredible. 102 00:16:12,123.04841586 --> 00:16:29,53.04541586 And so what we wanna do in our next round is extend from eight weeks to 12 weeks, in our next iteration of the RAISE collaborative, and do it with not just two states or two regions, but do it with s- six regions, so six different locations. 103 00:16:29,383.04441586 --> 00:16:36,433.04241586 And then from there, select 10 of our districts to move forward into a scaling collaborative. 104 00:16:36,923.04541586 --> 00:16:49,593.0504159 So what does it look like, not just to test one strategy and move it, and ideally, you take it on to the next stage, but help them to think about what does it look like to take this one thing, but scale it across the district with our support. 105 00:16:50,173.0464159 --> 00:16:55,343.0494159 And then we can coach and coach you throughout the process over the course of an entire year. 106 00:16:55,403.0454159 --> 00:16:59,763.0484159 And so we're hoping through that we'll get a lot of the information around the things you're asking. 107 00:17:00,3.0514159 --> 00:17:23,367.0524159 What are these concrete, enabling conditions that allows this work to scale really effectively, and what are the supports that we can provide, so that we can share some of this across the field? 'cause I really do believe that rural districts have, a- the resourcefulness, the flexibility to be able to do so much so quickly, that can really be a model for the rest of the field. 108 00:17:24,77.0524159 --> 00:17:24,657.0524159 Absolutely. 109 00:17:24,657.0524159 --> 00:17:31,187.0514159 It's funny, I've-- I think that intuition goes against what a lot of people assume. 110 00:17:31,187.0514159 --> 00:17:37,927.0514159 They think, oh, a large well-resourced district is gonna more effectively be able to, complete this initiative. 111 00:17:37,957.0504159 --> 00:17:43,317.0504159 But so often- Yeah in a rural school, your superintendent is someone that you can access easily. 112 00:17:43,327.0504159 --> 00:17:43,417.0504159 Yeah. 113 00:17:43,417.0514159 --> 00:17:47,7.0514159 You don't have as much, you might not have as much bureaucracy. 114 00:17:47,7.0514159 --> 00:17:50,727.0514159 There's fewer schools so that you can scale across the district more quickly. 115 00:17:50,727.0514159 --> 00:18:00,457.0484159 And it's just incredible how sometimes the assumptions that even I've made about the resources- that a district have can be totally wrong. 116 00:18:01,227.0504159 --> 00:18:01,507.0504159 Yeah. 117 00:18:01,507.0504159 --> 00:18:05,147.0494159 And you can look somewhere else- Yeah and be able to move quickly and make change happen. 118 00:18:05,787.0504159 --> 00:18:12,157.0494159 Some of the challenges are definitely real around resources and sometimes the challenges around staffing constraints. 119 00:18:12,517.0484159 --> 00:18:15,647.0494159 And even internet challenges. 120 00:18:15,657.0424159 --> 00:18:15,897.0444159 Like- Yeah. 121 00:18:16,117.0444159 --> 00:18:20,657.0494159 it's hard to use AI-enabled instruction when your Wi-Fi goes out for a whole day. 122 00:18:20,997.0424159 --> 00:18:22,327.0454159 so those challenges are real. 123 00:18:22,327.0454159 --> 00:18:25,477.0454159 And also, there is so much less bureaucracy. 124 00:18:25,477.0454159 --> 00:18:34,527.0344159 In our RAISE collaborative, each school team was required to have, a dis- a, the superintendent or assistant sup, school leaders, and teachers on the team. 125 00:18:34,857.0414159 --> 00:18:43,117.0394159 And because they were directly shaping the priorities that we were, that they were selecting as a team, there was so much more investment in the work that was happening. 126 00:18:43,127.0374159 --> 00:18:56,87.0444159 A lot of times you'll see, teachers in PDs around AI, and they get really excited, and then it's an uphill battle to try to convince a school leader or convince someone at the district about the value or the impact of this. 127 00:18:56,417.0444159 --> 00:19:09,317.0404159 But because the district leader, the school leader, and the educators are having the same experience, and they're all working towards the same goal, that buy-in, struggle didn't exist, and they could just move forward together. 128 00:19:09,347.0404159 --> 00:19:17,287.0454159 So there was just so much momentum that just wouldn't be possible in a larger district where there's just so many more layers. 129 00:19:17,957.0404159 --> 00:19:37,497.0664159 It's really incredible what you can do in the right kind of, the right kind of environment, and it's a great place- for, to test and learn, your team is doing a lot of really intentional thinking so that then you can, lead and coach and support districts and learn, a- apply that learning that you've been doing on your own alongside of them. 130 00:19:38,217.0674159 --> 00:19:38,777.0674159 Yeah. 131 00:19:38,817.0734159 --> 00:19:39,67.0734159 Yeah. 132 00:19:39,67.0734159 --> 00:19:41,67.0694159 We've learned so, so much. 133 00:19:41,87.0624159 --> 00:19:51,601.7320825 And so I think that's my biggest thing, too, is with our rural districts- It's not so much about, not having the space for innovation. 134 00:19:51,601.7320825 --> 00:19:53,621.7320825 It's more about not having the platform. 135 00:19:53,621.7320825 --> 00:20:03,361.7300825 And so one of my big priorities is how do we platform the things that are happening in these districts and be able to share them more broadly- more people to be able to see and learn from. 136 00:20:03,831.7310825 --> 00:20:12,689.0644159 do you see little sparks where in Leading Educators or other organizations where they're able to give rural districts more of a platform? I think so. 137 00:20:12,709.0644159 --> 00:20:20,329.0644159 I, every time- we try, we're, even for conferences, we love having the chance to be able to spotlight our superintendents and our teachers. 138 00:20:20,329.0644159 --> 00:20:34,429.0634159 And I think even the ways that the collaborative brings districts together, I was just on a call with Richard Ramos, who's the superintendent from, Miami USD, one of our districts from, from Arizona, this morning. 139 00:20:34,679.0624159 --> 00:20:39,109.0624159 And he shared the AI summit that they're planning, for the summer. 140 00:20:39,119.0624159 --> 00:20:48,459.0634159 And I was looking at the speaker list, and he had two or three speakers from other collaborative districts who are, like, participants from the collaborative. 141 00:20:48,459.0634159 --> 00:21:06,729.0624159 And so seeing the connections that are still going on across the collaborative too is also really exciting to me, to see that the network is continuing on and that they're still maintaining those connections, and them being able to leverage each other and spotlight each other too, even without Leading Educators having to be the ones. 142 00:21:06,729.0634159 --> 00:21:08,639.0624159 'Cause I don't think we always need to be the ones. 143 00:21:08,909.0624159 --> 00:21:12,529.0644159 I want them to be able to leverage us however they, however is helpful. 144 00:21:12,549.0614159 --> 00:21:16,779.0714159 But for them to be able to spotlight each other too is so amazing to see. 145 00:21:16,989.0654159 --> 00:21:27,859.0764159 Yeah, it's, you're able to create a network through your collaborative programming that can continue on after it ends- so that these, across the country people are able to share what they're learning. 146 00:21:28,302.4057492 --> 00:21:31,542.3997492 And, rural districts can be isolated by geography. 147 00:21:31,542.4067492 --> 00:21:36,542.4037492 And so being able to- bring people together where they can build relationships I think is really powerful. 148 00:21:37,282.4017492 --> 00:21:38,202.4037492 Yeah, yes. 149 00:21:38,222.4037492 --> 00:21:40,42.3987492 I w- am really excited to see it. 150 00:21:40,392.3967492 --> 00:21:46,652.3957492 And then 10, 10 group, 10 districts can continue to work together and build those relationships over a course of a year. 151 00:21:46,652.3957492 --> 00:21:51,792.3957492 So that's a really cool way of, build naturally building a network while learning at the same time. 152 00:21:52,472.3947492 --> 00:22:08,962.4267492 It just continues this theme of, like, how can we bring people together? How can we create these collective spaces for people to, to build on each other, learn from each other, and to move things forward, in the ways that are the most meaningful for them or the most aligned to what they need? Yeah. 153 00:22:09,612.4217492 --> 00:22:18,692.4387492 I feel like it's such we've been, like, moving into this larger and larger macro picture of starting, you told your story, and then you're like, "And we're bringing these people together in bigger and bigger ways." 154 00:22:18,772.4387492 --> 00:22:25,612.4377492 But I kind of wanna scale down too, because at the very beginning when you were telling your story, you mentioned that you have three, three children- who are school-aged. 155 00:22:25,622.4387492 --> 00:22:25,642.4387492 Yeah. 156 00:22:25,822.4387492 --> 00:22:41,482.4357492 And so I'm wondering from your perspective as you're doing this work with districts on a systems level scale, but you're also a mom with kids in school, and- I know that you, I saw your post on LinkedIn where you talked about- doing some PD at, your daughter's school. 157 00:22:41,812.4357492 --> 00:22:52,702.4367492 And so I'm just curious, like what, as a parent, how do you see, like how does that shape your perspective on AI in schools, and what do you hope for your children? Yeah. 158 00:22:53,361.1034159 --> 00:23:03,441.1034159 It was, I signed up for career day, and part of it was really out of guilt 'cause I had- it was the end of the school year, and I had dropped the ball on so many things. 159 00:23:03,851.1024159 --> 00:23:06,191.1034159 So many permission slips and yearbook signups. 160 00:23:06,191.1034159 --> 00:23:09,141.1034159 There was just so much going on, and I was like, "Okay, I need to do at least one thing." 161 00:23:09,491.1034159 --> 00:23:13,331.1034159 And so I signed up to do career day, at the elementary school. 162 00:23:13,391.1034159 --> 00:23:34,731.1064159 And I also really wanted to use it as a platform because I was seeing how my k- kids and their friends were using ChatGPT, and they were, like, just texting, my son's friends were texting pictures of themselves that they were generating on ChatGPT just dunking or just doing- silly things, but uploading pictures of themselves. 163 00:23:34,731.1074159 --> 00:23:43,461.1024159 And so I just had all these, thoughts about how, at school, obviously in elementary school they're not using AI, but they are clearly using it at home. 164 00:23:43,811.1024159 --> 00:23:48,681.0994159 And so wanted to have a chance to be able to at least have some kind of conversation. 165 00:23:48,801.0994159 --> 00:24:05,881.1034159 What could it look like to have a conversation about AI use in an elementary school with kindergartners, with first graders, second grader, fifth graders? And so framed it around this one question of who am I becoming through how I use AI? And the main one was, like, some scenarios I gave them. 166 00:24:05,891.0994159 --> 00:24:08,651.0964159 your math homework is confusing, so that's a scenario. 167 00:24:08,651.0964159 --> 00:24:44,256.1004159 And then so how would you use AI? Do you have it break down a problem into steps and give you a hint? Or, do you do the practice problems first and then have AI tell you which ones you missed and why? Or have it show you a similar problem and how it's solved first as an example? Or do you just have it tell you exactly what's on the test? Or with, like a writing, writing a paragraph a- about a book, do you have it brainstorm with you? Do you get feedback on a draft, or do you ask for a model paragraph, or do you have it just write it for you? And I had them put stickers next to these scenarios for what they would pick. 168 00:24:44,556.1034159 --> 00:25:13,372.0934159 And each of these scenario, each of these options match, a pattern of do you, would you want AI to be a coach for you or a checker or a modeler or a doer? And each one of these- Kind of informs that question of, like, what kind Who are you becoming through how you use AI based on what kind of use you want? And, you notice where you lean towards, but that isn't ultimately what you have to pick. 169 00:25:13,422.0924159 --> 00:25:14,752.0914159 You have a choice there. 170 00:25:14,872.0924159 --> 00:25:17,992.0924159 Maybe you lean towards wanting AI to do everything for you. 171 00:25:18,232.0914159 --> 00:25:33,792.0924159 That's a natural tendency because it's easier, but if you also are thinking what do you want to do what kind of learner do you wanna be, what kind of person do you wanna be, then you can also change your tendency or make a different choice. 172 00:25:34,602.0904159 --> 00:25:46,802.0904159 What kind of AI support actually helped someone learn over time, and then what kind of learner do you wanna become helps them to make a different choice or confirms the choice that they made. 173 00:25:47,192.0884159 --> 00:25:55,405.4227492 So having them think about that question, and I think even if we're talking about educators, I think it's a, the same question. 174 00:25:55,425.4227492 --> 00:26:17,925.4267492 It's not, like, how do I grade faster, but it's what we talked about earlier what kind of teacher do you wanna become or what kind of teacher do you believe you want to be? Is it a, someone who preserves critical thinking or someone who deeply connects with students? What is the type of teacher you wanna be and how does AI support? and probably it's the same for a school leader or a district too. 175 00:26:17,935.4267492 --> 00:26:37,415.4247492 We have a portrait of a graduate, but underneath that it's like what is the portrait of the district that creates that portrait of a graduate, and what is the AI use that supports that portrait of a district or a system? 'cause every use of AI will either draw that portrait a little bit more clearly or pull you away from it. 176 00:26:37,415.4247492 --> 00:26:39,595.4187492 And so I don't know. 177 00:26:39,605.4187492 --> 00:27:02,385.4187492 When I think about my student, when I think about my own children, when I think about myself, sometimes I just want AI to write the email for me too, and sometimes I just want it to draft the proposal, and sometimes I choose that, and sometimes I'm making a conscious choice of actually I, this is something I really need to think about and here's my rationale for it. 178 00:27:02,435.4267492 --> 00:27:09,818.7550825 And so I think it's the intentional decisions and the choices that I want them to make rather than I'm just doing it without thoughtlessly. 179 00:27:10,738.7620825 --> 00:27:34,325.4277492 Are there things that you do at home with your kids to reinforce this- Sense of choice that, and all, the choice that they have with AI, are there things you do as a parent to reinforce that? I honestly right now, I don't have them use AI that much, but I do try to reinforce that thinking that I think they can apply to AI with everything. 180 00:27:34,325.4287492 --> 00:27:44,895.4267492 Like, with the way that they fight with each other, or the way that they process their feelings, or the way that we, like, communicate or respond when they're feeling frustrated. 181 00:27:44,905.4287492 --> 00:27:49,545.4287492 I want them to be intentional in all the things that they do and all the choices that they make. 182 00:27:49,555.4267492 --> 00:27:53,835.4247492 Having that metacognitive lens I think will translate into everything that they do. 183 00:27:54,245.4247492 --> 00:27:58,390.9253063 And I do model for them as I'm doing my work. 184 00:27:58,390.9253063 --> 00:28:04,220.9253063 They, my youngest is in kindergarten, and so she thinks that my job is pressing buttons. 185 00:28:04,480.9253063 --> 00:28:06,440.9253063 So she doesn't truly understand. 186 00:28:06,730.9253063 --> 00:28:13,850.9253063 But for the older two, I am pretty transparent about the work that I do, and they see me whispering on my phone, and they're like, "She's talking to AI." 187 00:28:14,580.9253063 --> 00:28:24,170.9263063 And so- they and they're like, "Oh, she's talk- she's using her AI voice," which is they hear me talk differently, enunciate differently when I'm whispering into my phone. 188 00:28:24,380.9263063 --> 00:28:26,710.9273063 When I'm talking to ChatGPT, I try to enunciate more clearly. 189 00:28:26,710.9273063 --> 00:28:27,820.9263063 So they know the difference. 190 00:28:27,820.9263063 --> 00:28:41,777.0989113 And so I try to explain some of these things and some of the choices I'm making too, so that when I do, when they are using it, they have some of that frame of reference already and they're not learning it as they're doing it. 191 00:28:41,827.1019113 --> 00:28:56,937.0949113 I hope it's a, it's another layer of accountability for you as you're, like, trying to- Oh make sure that your own children in your home understand with the choices that you're making because you want them to make choices that preserve their own thinking and sense of autonomy even. 192 00:28:56,937.0949113 --> 00:29:05,107.0979113 I feel like if we're all just, if everyone's constantly just having AI do everything for them, you really do lose your sense of autonomy and choice. 193 00:29:05,547.0949113 --> 00:29:05,737.0949113 Yeah. 194 00:29:05,747.0919113 --> 00:29:08,157.0939113 And we don't wanna be too quick to give that up. 195 00:29:09,57.0969113 --> 00:29:13,367.0919113 There's also points where very obvious things, like choices that we're making. 196 00:29:13,417.0919113 --> 00:29:28,917.0869113 I could look something up about my Shih Poo, and if I think my Shih Poo is eating too much and gaining too much weight and I'm worried about him, and I can talk to ChatGPT about it, or I could call my sister who has a dog, a- or had a dog, and I could get advice. 197 00:29:28,967.0869113 --> 00:29:42,917.0929113 I'm making some choices, right? am I gonna do something that could potentially, connect with another human being, or for efficiency's sake, am I gonna quickly talk on my phone to ChatGPT? Those are all little choices that do, over time, have an impact. 198 00:29:43,457.0919113 --> 00:29:46,327.0889113 And we talk about those things around the dinner table. 199 00:29:46,337.0859113 --> 00:29:47,167.0869113 Not every night. 200 00:29:47,287.0859113 --> 00:29:56,457.0859113 But once in a while we'll have those conversations and talk about the implications of those on our family, on relationships, and who we are as people and how we connect with people. 201 00:29:57,71.0929113 --> 00:30:09,811.0919113 It's cool to think about because I, I think you know the things that happen sometimes, and, you like your role in your home, and then your role, this larger role you're playing with schools and school districts is a mirror of each other. 202 00:30:09,811.0919113 --> 00:30:37,201.0909113 It's you're- doing this thinking about, like, how do you intentionally use technology and talk about it with your kids, and how do you intentionally use technology and talk about it with a superintendent or- Yeah a teacher? And there's those conversations, the context can be vastly different, but the spirit of what is this technology, who is this technology causing us to become is a question that's valid no matter what age you are or what your role is. 203 00:30:37,921.0939113 --> 00:30:46,61.0949113 I think it all comes down to, what we originally talked about around, agency, advocacy, belonging. 204 00:30:46,81.0939113 --> 00:31:02,901.0919113 For me, it does, and so I think that's why it translates those different contexts so easily because for me, those grounding tenets are so critical, whether it's in schools, with district, with a superintendent, or with a kindergartner who lives in my house. 205 00:31:03,91.0959113 --> 00:31:05,421.1019113 those tenets are so cross-cutting. 206 00:31:06,261.1019113 --> 00:31:06,661.1019113 Yeah. 207 00:31:07,131.0969113 --> 00:31:07,491.0969113 Yeah. 208 00:31:07,561.0989113 --> 00:31:30,73.454836 okay, I have one last question, and it's what I ask everyone at the end of the show, is when you think about AI, what is something that is giving you the most hope when you think about the future, and what sparks the most concern for you? I think where I see a lot of potential is that a lot of our work recently, my work has been around economic mobility, like- workforce related. 209 00:31:30,613.454836 --> 00:31:48,605.0634534 And so working with workforce development, like nonprofits, I've been able to see through them jobs transforming in real time in a way that is a little bit one step removed in, in schools, in K-12 schools anyway. 210 00:31:49,105.0614534 --> 00:32:12,315.0584534 And so seeing that happening so clearly and the sense of urgency in workforce spaces, like entry, mid-level senior positions across so many sectors, it's not just the change itself, like a job description changing, but also, the pace and the frequency of that change, like ongoing rapid change. 211 00:32:13,635.0584534 --> 00:32:16,735.0644534 That is It feels like the ground is moving beneath our feet. 212 00:32:17,165.0604534 --> 00:32:29,315.0624534 So it's not a matter of just we just need to update our standards to include AI literacy, or we just need to update the competencies or update our portrait of a graduate, 'cause then we can just be like, "Okay, it's updated, and we're done." 213 00:32:29,665.0604534 --> 00:32:40,12.5302381 It's the fact that this ongoing change means do we just update it again in six months? Do we just update it again in 12 months? that's true, then it, the cycle never ends. 214 00:32:40,252.5312381 --> 00:32:59,832.5372381 So for me, the potential here is are, is there an opportunity then to rethink the whole paradigm of schooling so that, 5, 10 years out, six months out, we're not scrambling to re-update everything every time the ground shifts. 215 00:33:00,122.5362381 --> 00:33:23,422.5422381 Can we figure out how to be nimble enough to flex with the changes so that we're not just patching again, and it, if we're more flexible, we can continue to adapt, we can continue to readjust for whatever comes next, so that students aren't graduating into a workforce that's already made their learning outdated by the time they've crossed the stage. 216 00:33:23,762.5422381 --> 00:33:34,302.5332381 Which right now, that's what it feels like this graduation around so many people are le- leaving, graduating with this sense of disillusionment of this workforce I'm not prepared for with the major that I have. 217 00:33:34,312.5412381 --> 00:33:47,570.0390229 and so for me I'm sitting with that, both the excitement and the hope and the potential of it, but also the challenge and the unknown of what the heck that could look like. 218 00:33:49,624.49688 --> 00:33:57,674.49588 that question Sandra keeps coming back to, who are we becoming through how we use AI, is one I think every educator, every parent, every leader needs to sit with. 219 00:33:58,64.49688 --> 00:34:05,264.49688 Whether you're a kindergartner putting stickers on a worksheet or a superintendent designing your district's next initiative, the answer matters. 220 00:34:05,347.1245459 --> 00:34:09,427.1245459 If you wanna learn more about Sandra's work, you can go to leadingeducators.org 221 00:34:11,414.0779307 --> 00:34:15,434.0789307 And If this conversation sparked something for you, head over to kinwise.ai. 222 00:34:15,434.0789307 --> 00:34:22,784.0789307 There you'll find resources, past episodes, and tools to help you keep thinking through what it actually looks like to lead with AI in your school or district. 223 00:34:23,84.0789307 --> 00:34:26,394.0799307 And as always, stay curious, stay grounded, and stay Kinwise
.999And those values show up in everything she does, from her own kitchen table to her work with school districts across the country.
.001Sandra is the senior director of innovation and AI strategy at Leading Educators, where she leads national initiatives to integrate AI-enabled practices into student-centered systems. 5 00:00:30,159.999 --> 00:00:39,399.997 She's a former DC classroom teacher, a 2025 EdSafe Women in AI Fellow, and the architect behind programs like the RAISE Collaborative and the AI Schools Collaborative. 6 00:00:39,619.999 --> 00:00:52,889.237492471 Sandra, welcome to Kinwise\\ Sandra, I'm so excited to have you here today to talk with you about what you're learning and seeing in AI and education, and, even in the small business space. 7 00:00:53,149.237492471 --> 00:01:00,639.236492471 But to start, I just wanna ask you to tell a little bit about your story and how you ended up working in AI and education. 8 00:01:00,889.237492471 --> 00:01:02,918.274807795 so yeah, how did you end up here? Yeah. 9 00:01:03,198.274807795 --> 00:01:04,38.274807795 thanks for having me. 10 00:01:04,68.273807795 --> 00:01:07,538.275807795 So I am the senior director of innovation at Leading Educators. 11 00:01:07,908.273807795 --> 00:01:09,188.274807795 I was a teacher before. 12 00:01:09,188.274807795 --> 00:01:17,268.272807795 I would taught in Washington, DC, for about seven years, and then I've been at Leading Educators, it'll be 10 years in October. 13 00:01:17,608.272807795 --> 00:01:28,268.273807795 I've had many different roles at Leading Educators, and joined the innovation team about three years ago, and really dived into the AI work, almost right when I joined. 14 00:01:28,588.271807795 --> 00:01:32,848.273807795 I am, I'm also a mom of three kids, all in elementary school. 15 00:01:32,848.273807795 --> 00:01:36,598.268807795 Actually, next year my oldest will be in middle school. 16 00:01:36,918.273807795 --> 00:01:56,350.27680779 And I think- The thing that brought me into this work originally is just that I really love being with people, with students, with adults, like learning with people, and like designing spaces for people that make people feel good, like that people can co-own. 17 00:01:56,630.27680779 --> 00:02:02,380.27780779 That collective ownership piece is really important to me, And I think it came, a lot of it from my daughter. 18 00:02:02,390.27680779 --> 00:02:25,10.28080779 So my daughter has a diagnosis of selective mutism, and so working with her therapists for multiple years taught me a lot about like building the muscle of like self-advocacy and agency, and how hard it is to advocate for yourself and to advocate for other people, and to create that space of belonging for yourself and for other people. 19 00:02:25,330.28080779 --> 00:02:39,507.25246413 And I translated a lot of that into how I think about students and what students need, what all people need and deserve, and then leveraging the tools we have at our disposal to create that kind of space. 20 00:02:39,517.25046413 --> 00:02:45,577.24846413 And I think AI is just another one of those tools that we have in a, in our toolkit towards that aim. 21 00:02:46,444.73042073 --> 00:02:48,874.72742073 You said two things that really stuck with me. 22 00:02:48,874.73142073 --> 00:03:03,854.72642073 So one, you talked a lot about creating the space of belonging and self-advocacy and thinking about how do you shape a space for people who learn, and there are some profound s- it, profound differences in how people view AI in education. 23 00:03:03,854.73342073 --> 00:03:05,44.73342073 Some people are really excited. 24 00:03:05,294.72742073 --> 00:03:07,844.72942073 Some people are really scared or skeptical. 25 00:03:08,204.73142073 --> 00:03:21,964.74242073 And so I'm wondering, as you have been working with different individuals w- with, when it comes to AI, how have you I feel like that would be really powerful to be able to create these spaces of belonging where people feel safe. 26 00:03:22,284.73742073 --> 00:03:41,457.07091585 Have you seen that be true that there's some, I don't know, relationship between feeling safe and your ability to learn something that's so new and dynamic and potentially scary for people? Yeah, I think so, because I think people bring in-- There's so much emotional weight, I think, to AI. 27 00:03:41,457.07091585 --> 00:03:55,197.07091585 I think if you just think about it as a technical thing of there's this new initiative that's being thrown at me, and that's the only lens that we use, it's very easy to be dismissive of people who are super, pro or against it. 28 00:03:55,207.07091585 --> 00:04:05,747.07191585 But when you understand the nuances of what's underneath it and people's emotional reactions to it, there is so many more ways to connect to how people are responding to it. 29 00:04:05,797.07191585 --> 00:04:08,537.07291585 there is fear of the unknown. 30 00:04:08,817.07291585 --> 00:04:13,147.07291585 There is, uncertainty about my expertise now as a teacher. 31 00:04:13,167.07091585 --> 00:04:32,227.07091585 I have this decades of expertise in this content area, and now I have this sense of who am I now as an educator? Potentially my expertise is now invalidated, or, the parts of the work that were most important to me, like lesson planning, is-- The nuances of lesson planning are so important to who I am as a teacher, and potentially that's being taken away. 32 00:04:32,227.07091585 --> 00:04:50,707.06691586 If you understand what is underneath that and the sense of belonging and identity that comes from that, and you really can dig into what people are bringing into the conversation, you can have such more nuanced understanding of where people are coming into it and have a much more meaningful conversation. 33 00:04:50,997.06691585 --> 00:04:59,627.06891586 And in a way, find out how to leverage AI in a way that protects those things and enhances those things instead of just trying to replace it or do things more quickly. 34 00:05:00,147.06891586 --> 00:05:02,257.06891586 Yeah, And so I'm wondering about examples. 35 00:05:02,277.06991586 --> 00:05:13,537.07191586 You talked about this teacher who feels like their identity is connected to how well they lesson plan, and now you have a tool that can do a lot of that for you or more, more quickly. 36 00:05:13,887.07191586 --> 00:05:42,546.38824919 How do you see people whose identity as an educator is connected to some aspect that now AI can augment or at some points replace? How have you seen people navigate that and leverage the AI toolkit and move past that deep emotional fear response they might have? Yeah, I can give you an example there was a teacher, this is from, Holbrook USD. 37 00:05:42,576.38824919 --> 00:05:46,916.38924919 This is one of our, RAISE collabora- one of our rural districts that we worked with in the fall. 38 00:05:47,276.38824919 --> 00:06:01,36.38824919 And this teacher was really, passionate about protecting students' thinking, like doing the, holding the cognitive lift and making sure that students were not just going through the motions. 39 00:06:01,36.38824919 --> 00:06:06,59.72058252 And she was really concerned about AI doing all of the thinking students. 40 00:06:06,59.72058252 --> 00:06:12,649.72258252 And so she was, v- had some hesitations about h- how AI was being implemented in cases that she had seen and come across. 41 00:06:12,999.72158252 --> 00:06:28,949.72058252 And so knowing that this is her priorities around, holding the intellectual work and holding the cognitive lift, she was able to, through our collaborative experience, design instructional strategies that supported this focus area that was so critical for her. 42 00:06:29,389.71958252 --> 00:06:32,69.71758252 And so she taught, middle school STEM. 43 00:06:32,449.72358252 --> 00:06:49,606.38824919 And so she had this project that was around like a pulley, students like designing a pulley system And so students had to generate their ideas, and then they had to take their plan for their pulley system, and then they had to present it, to each other. 44 00:06:49,626.38824919 --> 00:07:17,656.39024919 They had to get feedback on it, and then they had to go in front of this Gemini created bot who would evaluate or be the judge of their plan, and then they had to justify their decisions, and then get the evaluation or the judgment from the bot, and then also evaluate the bot's response and make decisions about what they would revise to make their, plan stronger, what they would choose not to revise and why. 45 00:07:17,866.38924919 --> 00:07:25,246.38824919 They had to hold all the intellectual work of not just creating the plan, but defending, revising, and then justifying in order to be able to move forward. 46 00:07:25,656.39024919 --> 00:07:35,156.38824919 So not only was she able to protect the cognitive lift of students with intellectual work, but she was able to increase it in the ways that she was using AI in the classroom. 47 00:07:35,516.39024919 --> 00:08:14,266.38924919 So instead of just saying, "Everyone's gonna use AI to create your lesson plans faster," she was like, "Okay, what is my priority? What do I want to be true about my, the learning experiences I'm creating? And then how do I use AI strategically as a lever to increase or to enable that to be even more true in my classroom?" I love that because you're getting down past the, I think, a lot about compliance versus just your own personal conviction or why you believe that you wanna do something, and I think you may be in a situation where people are l- where a teacher may feel that they need to learn how to integrate AI and use it in some way. 48 00:08:14,546.38724919 --> 00:08:21,626.38824919 But being able to understand your deeper why and then approach your use case accordingly- Yeah I think can be so transformative. 49 00:08:21,676.38424919 --> 00:08:28,886.38624919 I, any tool can, any tool, I think, can be just checking a checkbox, or it can be something that really takes us to the next level. 50 00:08:29,706.38324919 --> 00:08:30,126.38324919 Yeah. 51 00:08:30,126.38324919 --> 00:08:34,476.38224919 So we have, at Leading Educators, we have this framework called the VATT. 52 00:08:34,536.38524919 --> 00:08:37,416.38724919 It's the Value of Technology on Teaching. 53 00:08:37,656.38024919 --> 00:08:41,766.37124919 the framework that helps teachers to c- make those decisions about technology. 54 00:08:41,776.37524919 --> 00:08:59,716.39024919 Does it, does whatever tool or AI use that you're considering help you to do more, do better, or to do new so that you are either is it helping you increase the efficiency? You really are just trying to do something quicker so that with that saved time you can, build relationships or, reuse that time for something else. 55 00:08:59,716.39224919 --> 00:09:17,906.38024919 Or are you trying to do something better, like actually transform your instruction to be more effective, in a specific way, or are you trying to do new, like actually transform or h- do a, do- Take a wild leap or a brand new thing that hasn't been done before with your use of AI. 56 00:09:18,136.38024919 --> 00:09:24,696.38024919 If you're clear on what exactly you're trying to accomplish with the technology, then you're able to measure its effectiveness more clearly. 57 00:09:24,996.38024919 --> 00:09:33,276.38224919 And so having that kind of language for what you're trying to use the technology for helps you to just be more thoughtful in your approach of using it. 58 00:09:33,846.38224919 --> 00:09:36,331.38174919 Yeah, that's so catchy, to use it more, better, and new. 59 00:09:36,331.38174919 --> 00:09:36,466.38124919 Yeah. 60 00:09:36,466.38124919 --> 00:09:39,266.38124919 I feel like that can really- Yeah stick with you, and that's helpful. 61 00:09:39,476.38024919 --> 00:09:47,236.37824919 It's a simple way to quickly evaluate, like why am I- Yeah why am I using this in the first place? So I like that. 62 00:09:47,286.37824919 --> 00:09:48,656.37924919 that's a great- Yeah a great insight. 63 00:09:49,6.37624919 --> 00:10:02,56.37824919 I'm curious, okay, so we've talked a little bit about what it looks like for a teacher, and then but we also have principals who are leading schools and huge groups of teachers, and they're also trying to navigate new technology coming in. 64 00:10:02,56.37824919 --> 00:10:17,936.38124919 And so I'm curious about where you see principals potentially getting lost when it comes to leading AI initiatives, and where you see what as the most important things to focus on when you're leading teachers to use technology effectively. 65 00:10:18,786.37624919 --> 00:10:35,870.38024919 I think it's really challenging because- AI, because it's moving so quickly, that there is work that principals are doing to be streamlined, to be safe, to be, to protect students' data, and to be very intentional in their rollout. 66 00:10:36,150.38024919 --> 00:10:43,460.38124919 And at the same time, teachers are being marketed at around the clock on social media everywhere to try this new app. 67 00:10:43,460.38124919 --> 00:10:48,560.38024919 And so there's also the grassroots exploration of AI platforms that are... 68 00:10:48,580.38024919 --> 00:10:52,110.38024919 It's just proliferat- pr- proliferating everywhere. 69 00:10:52,430.38024919 --> 00:10:56,230.37924919 So it's really hard to be able to manage across what everyone is doing. 70 00:10:56,570.38024919 --> 00:11:03,50.38324919 the excitement of all these flashy things, it's really hard to figure out what is the most strategic path forward. 71 00:11:03,430.38024919 --> 00:11:08,390.38024919 there's also a lot of pressure to show what you're doing, whether it's to a board or to the community. 72 00:11:08,390.38024919 --> 00:11:11,980.38324919 There's a lot of conflicting, pulls on a school leader. 73 00:11:12,320.38424919 --> 00:11:28,107.04791586 And so I think with all of this curiosity and all of this imagination of all the things that AI can do, there also needs to be a really clear balance of something that's a little bit less flashy and exciting. 74 00:11:28,107.04791586 --> 00:11:39,17.05291586 But what are the conditions you need to build to sustain and to scale any of it? what has come up in a lot of our programming and a lot of our accelerators is things like data infrastructure. 75 00:11:39,717.04791586 --> 00:11:48,147.04491586 It's not very exciting, but AI has become a mirror or has shined a light on a lot of the challenges that we've put a Band-Aid on. 76 00:11:48,247.04491586 --> 00:12:04,367.04041586 a lot of times data will live in Salesforce, but also a Google spreadsheet, and also in three, four other platforms, and also a sticky note on the back of a laptop where you're just, like, holding little notes that you just keep going back to and you just remember. 77 00:12:04,687.03741586 --> 00:12:15,867.04141586 And so when things are living in all these different places and you're trying to get AI to organize everything, you're realizing, oh, all of our data is so disorganized, and we have to find a way to organize all of this. 78 00:12:15,867.04141586 --> 00:12:43,937.04341586 So for schools to recognize, we need to have all the conditions in place technically for this to be able to- Actually function in a way that can scale, is really critical around organizational readiness, both technically and also strategically, right? 'Cause you can take a tool and it can be, like, totally transformative in one school, and also it can do nothing or it can actually be harmful in another school, the same exact tool. 79 00:12:44,357.04441586 --> 00:12:46,707.04241586 And the difference is not the tool itself, it's... 80 00:12:47,307.04241586 --> 00:12:54,447.04441585 Again, it's the conditions, like how it's rolled out, how much time the rollout gets the purpose it serves, the alignment to your instructional vision. 81 00:12:54,457.04341585 --> 00:13:06,927.04441586 Is it just tacked on or is it clearly aligned to your portrait of a graduate or what you want to be true for your students or your instructional priorities, your goals, your student outcomes? The training and ongoing support. 82 00:13:06,937.04641586 --> 00:13:07,717.04541586 Yeah, go ahead. 83 00:13:07,837.04441586 --> 00:13:07,927.04441586 Yeah. 84 00:13:08,147.04541586 --> 00:13:30,97.04241586 Have you seen for schools or districts that have been really successful on this data piece, which in some ways is the foundation for an effective AI rollout- have, w- how have you seen people effectively consolidate data when it does live on sticky notes and- Google Spreadsheets and in, uh, PowerSchool or SalesSource or, or wherever else? Yeah. 85 00:13:30,627.04641586 --> 00:13:53,97.05041586 So what I have seen is starting small, not trying to do everything all at once, and if you are building AI systems or rolling out new AI initiatives and it is incorporating lots of data, starting with places where you already have strong data infrastructure, not trying to rebuild or reconfigure just for the sake of AI. 86 00:13:53,377.05041586 --> 00:14:07,417.04841585 But starting where things are already really smooth and already really well-organized, and then adding the AI infrastructure piece on top of it as a place to start small, figure out what works, and then build from there. 87 00:14:07,917.04641585 --> 00:14:17,957.04441586 I think in general, these smaller cycles of testing, piloting, and then building are so much more effective than trying to tr- transform everything all at once. 88 00:14:18,867.04341586 --> 00:14:19,537.04241586 Have you... 89 00:14:19,577.04241585 --> 00:14:32,83.04741585 Do you have a story of a school or a district that was able to consolid- you know to start small, choose something, and then see success in that area they started in? I have in terms of instructional strategies. 90 00:14:32,133.04741586 --> 00:14:35,713.04741586 In terms of system transformation, it's something that we're looking forward to. 91 00:14:35,713.04741586 --> 00:14:44,543.04741586 We are, So I'll share a story of where- what we've learned, and then how we're transitioning or how we're hoping to transition next into some system scaling. 92 00:14:44,923.04641586 --> 00:14:44,963.04641586 Awesome. 93 00:14:44,973.04741586 --> 00:14:54,303.04841586 So our RAISE collaborative has been, this first round happened in the fall, and it was with seven rural school districts, in Arizona and Texas. 94 00:14:55,223.04941586 --> 00:15:04,333.04741586 And we work with them in these small cycles to design and test AI-enabled instructional strategies grounded in their instructional vision. 95 00:15:04,463.04741586 --> 00:15:19,613.04941586 So what do they want to be true for their students? What are their instructional priorities? What are some of the biggest challenges for them to achieve those? And what are some AI-shaped, solutions that can help address some of those challenges? And then they tested and piloted those. 96 00:15:19,723.04941586 --> 00:15:25,923.04941586 We had this hunch that rural districts would be a great place to test these, and that hunch was confirmed. 97 00:15:25,953.04941586 --> 00:15:40,993.04941586 Because they are so small and also nimble and resourceful and innovative, we were able to see some really powerful, shifts that were able to happen even in the very short, I think it was seven or eight weeks long, cycles. 98 00:15:41,903.05041586 --> 00:15:45,603.04941586 We were also able to see their plans for what they would do next. 99 00:15:45,603.04941586 --> 00:15:55,803.05041586 So one school was like, "We are going to now, move forward into piloting with all of our schools across the district based off of our n- initial pilot." 100 00:15:55,823.05241586 --> 00:16:05,513.04841586 Another school was like, "We're gonna start launching a, a mentoring program for our, for all of our teachers based off of the work that we did here, like a AI champions mentoring program." 101 00:16:05,843.04741586 --> 00:16:12,123.04841586 And to see the iterations of where they're able to scale based off of these smaller rounds was really incredible. 102 00:16:12,123.04841586 --> 00:16:29,53.04541586 And so what we wanna do in our next round is extend from eight weeks to 12 weeks, in our next iteration of the RAISE collaborative, and do it with not just two states or two regions, but do it with s- six regions, so six different locations. 103 00:16:29,383.04441586 --> 00:16:36,433.04241586 And then from there, select 10 of our districts to move forward into a scaling collaborative. 104 00:16:36,923.04541586 --> 00:16:49,593.0504159 So what does it look like, not just to test one strategy and move it, and ideally, you take it on to the next stage, but help them to think about what does it look like to take this one thing, but scale it across the district with our support. 105 00:16:50,173.0464159 --> 00:16:55,343.0494159 And then we can coach and coach you throughout the process over the course of an entire year. 106 00:16:55,403.0454159 --> 00:16:59,763.0484159 And so we're hoping through that we'll get a lot of the information around the things you're asking. 107 00:17:00,3.0514159 --> 00:17:23,367.0524159 What are these concrete, enabling conditions that allows this work to scale really effectively, and what are the supports that we can provide, so that we can share some of this across the field? 'cause I really do believe that rural districts have, a- the resourcefulness, the flexibility to be able to do so much so quickly, that can really be a model for the rest of the field. 108 00:17:24,77.0524159 --> 00:17:24,657.0524159 Absolutely. 109 00:17:24,657.0524159 --> 00:17:31,187.0514159 It's funny, I've-- I think that intuition goes against what a lot of people assume. 110 00:17:31,187.0514159 --> 00:17:37,927.0514159 They think, oh, a large well-resourced district is gonna more effectively be able to, complete this initiative. 111 00:17:37,957.0504159 --> 00:17:43,317.0504159 But so often- Yeah in a rural school, your superintendent is someone that you can access easily. 112 00:17:43,327.0504159 --> 00:17:43,417.0504159 Yeah. 113 00:17:43,417.0514159 --> 00:17:47,7.0514159 You don't have as much, you might not have as much bureaucracy. 114 00:17:47,7.0514159 --> 00:17:50,727.0514159 There's fewer schools so that you can scale across the district more quickly. 115 00:17:50,727.0514159 --> 00:18:00,457.0484159 And it's just incredible how sometimes the assumptions that even I've made about the resources- that a district have can be totally wrong. 116 00:18:01,227.0504159 --> 00:18:01,507.0504159 Yeah. 117 00:18:01,507.0504159 --> 00:18:05,147.0494159 And you can look somewhere else- Yeah and be able to move quickly and make change happen. 118 00:18:05,787.0504159 --> 00:18:12,157.0494159 Some of the challenges are definitely real around resources and sometimes the challenges around staffing constraints. 119 00:18:12,517.0484159 --> 00:18:15,647.0494159 And even internet challenges. 120 00:18:15,657.0424159 --> 00:18:15,897.0444159 Like- Yeah. 121 00:18:16,117.0444159 --> 00:18:20,657.0494159 it's hard to use AI-enabled instruction when your Wi-Fi goes out for a whole day. 122 00:18:20,997.0424159 --> 00:18:22,327.0454159 so those challenges are real. 123 00:18:22,327.0454159 --> 00:18:25,477.0454159 And also, there is so much less bureaucracy. 124 00:18:25,477.0454159 --> 00:18:34,527.0344159 In our RAISE collaborative, each school team was required to have, a dis- a, the superintendent or assistant sup, school leaders, and teachers on the team. 125 00:18:34,857.0414159 --> 00:18:43,117.0394159 And because they were directly shaping the priorities that we were, that they were selecting as a team, there was so much more investment in the work that was happening. 126 00:18:43,127.0374159 --> 00:18:56,87.0444159 A lot of times you'll see, teachers in PDs around AI, and they get really excited, and then it's an uphill battle to try to convince a school leader or convince someone at the district about the value or the impact of this. 127 00:18:56,417.0444159 --> 00:19:09,317.0404159 But because the district leader, the school leader, and the educators are having the same experience, and they're all working towards the same goal, that buy-in, struggle didn't exist, and they could just move forward together. 128 00:19:09,347.0404159 --> 00:19:17,287.0454159 So there was just so much momentum that just wouldn't be possible in a larger district where there's just so many more layers. 129 00:19:17,957.0404159 --> 00:19:37,497.0664159 It's really incredible what you can do in the right kind of, the right kind of environment, and it's a great place- for, to test and learn, your team is doing a lot of really intentional thinking so that then you can, lead and coach and support districts and learn, a- apply that learning that you've been doing on your own alongside of them. 130 00:19:38,217.0674159 --> 00:19:38,777.0674159 Yeah. 131 00:19:38,817.0734159 --> 00:19:39,67.0734159 Yeah. 132 00:19:39,67.0734159 --> 00:19:41,67.0694159 We've learned so, so much. 133 00:19:41,87.0624159 --> 00:19:51,601.7320825 And so I think that's my biggest thing, too, is with our rural districts- It's not so much about, not having the space for innovation. 134 00:19:51,601.7320825 --> 00:19:53,621.7320825 It's more about not having the platform. 135 00:19:53,621.7320825 --> 00:20:03,361.7300825 And so one of my big priorities is how do we platform the things that are happening in these districts and be able to share them more broadly- more people to be able to see and learn from. 136 00:20:03,831.7310825 --> 00:20:12,689.0644159 do you see little sparks where in Leading Educators or other organizations where they're able to give rural districts more of a platform? I think so. 137 00:20:12,709.0644159 --> 00:20:20,329.0644159 I, every time- we try, we're, even for conferences, we love having the chance to be able to spotlight our superintendents and our teachers. 138 00:20:20,329.0644159 --> 00:20:34,429.0634159 And I think even the ways that the collaborative brings districts together, I was just on a call with Richard Ramos, who's the superintendent from, Miami USD, one of our districts from, from Arizona, this morning. 139 00:20:34,679.0624159 --> 00:20:39,109.0624159 And he shared the AI summit that they're planning, for the summer. 140 00:20:39,119.0624159 --> 00:20:48,459.0634159 And I was looking at the speaker list, and he had two or three speakers from other collaborative districts who are, like, participants from the collaborative. 141 00:20:48,459.0634159 --> 00:21:06,729.0624159 And so seeing the connections that are still going on across the collaborative too is also really exciting to me, to see that the network is continuing on and that they're still maintaining those connections, and them being able to leverage each other and spotlight each other too, even without Leading Educators having to be the ones. 142 00:21:06,729.0634159 --> 00:21:08,639.0624159 'Cause I don't think we always need to be the ones. 143 00:21:08,909.0624159 --> 00:21:12,529.0644159 I want them to be able to leverage us however they, however is helpful. 144 00:21:12,549.0614159 --> 00:21:16,779.0714159 But for them to be able to spotlight each other too is so amazing to see. 145 00:21:16,989.0654159 --> 00:21:27,859.0764159 Yeah, it's, you're able to create a network through your collaborative programming that can continue on after it ends- so that these, across the country people are able to share what they're learning. 146 00:21:28,302.4057492 --> 00:21:31,542.3997492 And, rural districts can be isolated by geography. 147 00:21:31,542.4067492 --> 00:21:36,542.4037492 And so being able to- bring people together where they can build relationships I think is really powerful. 148 00:21:37,282.4017492 --> 00:21:38,202.4037492 Yeah, yes. 149 00:21:38,222.4037492 --> 00:21:40,42.3987492 I w- am really excited to see it. 150 00:21:40,392.3967492 --> 00:21:46,652.3957492 And then 10, 10 group, 10 districts can continue to work together and build those relationships over a course of a year. 151 00:21:46,652.3957492 --> 00:21:51,792.3957492 So that's a really cool way of, build naturally building a network while learning at the same time. 152 00:21:52,472.3947492 --> 00:22:08,962.4267492 It just continues this theme of, like, how can we bring people together? How can we create these collective spaces for people to, to build on each other, learn from each other, and to move things forward, in the ways that are the most meaningful for them or the most aligned to what they need? Yeah. 153 00:22:09,612.4217492 --> 00:22:18,692.4387492 I feel like it's such we've been, like, moving into this larger and larger macro picture of starting, you told your story, and then you're like, "And we're bringing these people together in bigger and bigger ways." 154 00:22:18,772.4387492 --> 00:22:25,612.4377492 But I kind of wanna scale down too, because at the very beginning when you were telling your story, you mentioned that you have three, three children- who are school-aged. 155 00:22:25,622.4387492 --> 00:22:25,642.4387492 Yeah. 156 00:22:25,822.4387492 --> 00:22:41,482.4357492 And so I'm wondering from your perspective as you're doing this work with districts on a systems level scale, but you're also a mom with kids in school, and- I know that you, I saw your post on LinkedIn where you talked about- doing some PD at, your daughter's school. 157 00:22:41,812.4357492 --> 00:22:52,702.4367492 And so I'm just curious, like what, as a parent, how do you see, like how does that shape your perspective on AI in schools, and what do you hope for your children? Yeah. 158 00:22:53,361.1034159 --> 00:23:03,441.1034159 It was, I signed up for career day, and part of it was really out of guilt 'cause I had- it was the end of the school year, and I had dropped the ball on so many things. 159 00:23:03,851.1024159 --> 00:23:06,191.1034159 So many permission slips and yearbook signups. 160 00:23:06,191.1034159 --> 00:23:09,141.1034159 There was just so much going on, and I was like, "Okay, I need to do at least one thing." 161 00:23:09,491.1034159 --> 00:23:13,331.1034159 And so I signed up to do career day, at the elementary school. 162 00:23:13,391.1034159 --> 00:23:34,731.1064159 And I also really wanted to use it as a platform because I was seeing how my k- kids and their friends were using ChatGPT, and they were, like, just texting, my son's friends were texting pictures of themselves that they were generating on ChatGPT just dunking or just doing- silly things, but uploading pictures of themselves. 163 00:23:34,731.1074159 --> 00:23:43,461.1024159 And so I just had all these, thoughts about how, at school, obviously in elementary school they're not using AI, but they are clearly using it at home. 164 00:23:43,811.1024159 --> 00:23:48,681.0994159 And so wanted to have a chance to be able to at least have some kind of conversation. 165 00:23:48,801.0994159 --> 00:24:05,881.1034159 What could it look like to have a conversation about AI use in an elementary school with kindergartners, with first graders, second grader, fifth graders? And so framed it around this one question of who am I becoming through how I use AI? And the main one was, like, some scenarios I gave them. 166 00:24:05,891.0994159 --> 00:24:08,651.0964159 your math homework is confusing, so that's a scenario. 167 00:24:08,651.0964159 --> 00:24:44,256.1004159 And then so how would you use AI? Do you have it break down a problem into steps and give you a hint? Or, do you do the practice problems first and then have AI tell you which ones you missed and why? Or have it show you a similar problem and how it's solved first as an example? Or do you just have it tell you exactly what's on the test? Or with, like a writing, writing a paragraph a- about a book, do you have it brainstorm with you? Do you get feedback on a draft, or do you ask for a model paragraph, or do you have it just write it for you? And I had them put stickers next to these scenarios for what they would pick. 168 00:24:44,556.1034159 --> 00:25:13,372.0934159 And each of these scenario, each of these options match, a pattern of do you, would you want AI to be a coach for you or a checker or a modeler or a doer? And each one of these- Kind of informs that question of, like, what kind Who are you becoming through how you use AI based on what kind of use you want? And, you notice where you lean towards, but that isn't ultimately what you have to pick. 169 00:25:13,422.0924159 --> 00:25:14,752.0914159 You have a choice there. 170 00:25:14,872.0924159 --> 00:25:17,992.0924159 Maybe you lean towards wanting AI to do everything for you. 171 00:25:18,232.0914159 --> 00:25:33,792.0924159 That's a natural tendency because it's easier, but if you also are thinking what do you want to do what kind of learner do you wanna be, what kind of person do you wanna be, then you can also change your tendency or make a different choice. 172 00:25:34,602.0904159 --> 00:25:46,802.0904159 What kind of AI support actually helped someone learn over time, and then what kind of learner do you wanna become helps them to make a different choice or confirms the choice that they made. 173 00:25:47,192.0884159 --> 00:25:55,405.4227492 So having them think about that question, and I think even if we're talking about educators, I think it's a, the same question. 174 00:25:55,425.4227492 --> 00:26:17,925.4267492 It's not, like, how do I grade faster, but it's what we talked about earlier what kind of teacher do you wanna become or what kind of teacher do you believe you want to be? Is it a, someone who preserves critical thinking or someone who deeply connects with students? What is the type of teacher you wanna be and how does AI support? and probably it's the same for a school leader or a district too. 175 00:26:17,935.4267492 --> 00:26:37,415.4247492 We have a portrait of a graduate, but underneath that it's like what is the portrait of the district that creates that portrait of a graduate, and what is the AI use that supports that portrait of a district or a system? 'cause every use of AI will either draw that portrait a little bit more clearly or pull you away from it. 176 00:26:37,415.4247492 --> 00:26:39,595.4187492 And so I don't know. 177 00:26:39,605.4187492 --> 00:27:02,385.4187492 When I think about my student, when I think about my own children, when I think about myself, sometimes I just want AI to write the email for me too, and sometimes I just want it to draft the proposal, and sometimes I choose that, and sometimes I'm making a conscious choice of actually I, this is something I really need to think about and here's my rationale for it. 178 00:27:02,435.4267492 --> 00:27:09,818.7550825 And so I think it's the intentional decisions and the choices that I want them to make rather than I'm just doing it without thoughtlessly. 179 00:27:10,738.7620825 --> 00:27:34,325.4277492 Are there things that you do at home with your kids to reinforce this- Sense of choice that, and all, the choice that they have with AI, are there things you do as a parent to reinforce that? I honestly right now, I don't have them use AI that much, but I do try to reinforce that thinking that I think they can apply to AI with everything. 180 00:27:34,325.4287492 --> 00:27:44,895.4267492 Like, with the way that they fight with each other, or the way that they process their feelings, or the way that we, like, communicate or respond when they're feeling frustrated. 181 00:27:44,905.4287492 --> 00:27:49,545.4287492 I want them to be intentional in all the things that they do and all the choices that they make. 182 00:27:49,555.4267492 --> 00:27:53,835.4247492 Having that metacognitive lens I think will translate into everything that they do. 183 00:27:54,245.4247492 --> 00:27:58,390.9253063 And I do model for them as I'm doing my work. 184 00:27:58,390.9253063 --> 00:28:04,220.9253063 They, my youngest is in kindergarten, and so she thinks that my job is pressing buttons. 185 00:28:04,480.9253063 --> 00:28:06,440.9253063 So she doesn't truly understand. 186 00:28:06,730.9253063 --> 00:28:13,850.9253063 But for the older two, I am pretty transparent about the work that I do, and they see me whispering on my phone, and they're like, "She's talking to AI." 187 00:28:14,580.9253063 --> 00:28:24,170.9263063 And so- they and they're like, "Oh, she's talk- she's using her AI voice," which is they hear me talk differently, enunciate differently when I'm whispering into my phone. 188 00:28:24,380.9263063 --> 00:28:26,710.9273063 When I'm talking to ChatGPT, I try to enunciate more clearly. 189 00:28:26,710.9273063 --> 00:28:27,820.9263063 So they know the difference. 190 00:28:27,820.9263063 --> 00:28:41,777.0989113 And so I try to explain some of these things and some of the choices I'm making too, so that when I do, when they are using it, they have some of that frame of reference already and they're not learning it as they're doing it. 191 00:28:41,827.1019113 --> 00:28:56,937.0949113 I hope it's a, it's another layer of accountability for you as you're, like, trying to- Oh make sure that your own children in your home understand with the choices that you're making because you want them to make choices that preserve their own thinking and sense of autonomy even. 192 00:28:56,937.0949113 --> 00:29:05,107.0979113 I feel like if we're all just, if everyone's constantly just having AI do everything for them, you really do lose your sense of autonomy and choice. 193 00:29:05,547.0949113 --> 00:29:05,737.0949113 Yeah. 194 00:29:05,747.0919113 --> 00:29:08,157.0939113 And we don't wanna be too quick to give that up. 195 00:29:09,57.0969113 --> 00:29:13,367.0919113 There's also points where very obvious things, like choices that we're making. 196 00:29:13,417.0919113 --> 00:29:28,917.0869113 I could look something up about my Shih Poo, and if I think my Shih Poo is eating too much and gaining too much weight and I'm worried about him, and I can talk to ChatGPT about it, or I could call my sister who has a dog, a- or had a dog, and I could get advice. 197 00:29:28,967.0869113 --> 00:29:42,917.0929113 I'm making some choices, right? am I gonna do something that could potentially, connect with another human being, or for efficiency's sake, am I gonna quickly talk on my phone to ChatGPT? Those are all little choices that do, over time, have an impact. 198 00:29:43,457.0919113 --> 00:29:46,327.0889113 And we talk about those things around the dinner table. 199 00:29:46,337.0859113 --> 00:29:47,167.0869113 Not every night. 200 00:29:47,287.0859113 --> 00:29:56,457.0859113 But once in a while we'll have those conversations and talk about the implications of those on our family, on relationships, and who we are as people and how we connect with people. 201 00:29:57,71.0929113 --> 00:30:09,811.0919113 It's cool to think about because I, I think you know the things that happen sometimes, and, you like your role in your home, and then your role, this larger role you're playing with schools and school districts is a mirror of each other. 202 00:30:09,811.0919113 --> 00:30:37,201.0909113 It's you're- doing this thinking about, like, how do you intentionally use technology and talk about it with your kids, and how do you intentionally use technology and talk about it with a superintendent or- Yeah a teacher? And there's those conversations, the context can be vastly different, but the spirit of what is this technology, who is this technology causing us to become is a question that's valid no matter what age you are or what your role is. 203 00:30:37,921.0939113 --> 00:30:46,61.0949113 I think it all comes down to, what we originally talked about around, agency, advocacy, belonging. 204 00:30:46,81.0939113 --> 00:31:02,901.0919113 For me, it does, and so I think that's why it translates those different contexts so easily because for me, those grounding tenets are so critical, whether it's in schools, with district, with a superintendent, or with a kindergartner who lives in my house. 205 00:31:03,91.0959113 --> 00:31:05,421.1019113 those tenets are so cross-cutting. 206 00:31:06,261.1019113 --> 00:31:06,661.1019113 Yeah. 207 00:31:07,131.0969113 --> 00:31:07,491.0969113 Yeah. 208 00:31:07,561.0989113 --> 00:31:30,73.454836 okay, I have one last question, and it's what I ask everyone at the end of the show, is when you think about AI, what is something that is giving you the most hope when you think about the future, and what sparks the most concern for you? I think where I see a lot of potential is that a lot of our work recently, my work has been around economic mobility, like- workforce related. 209 00:31:30,613.454836 --> 00:31:48,605.0634534 And so working with workforce development, like nonprofits, I've been able to see through them jobs transforming in real time in a way that is a little bit one step removed in, in schools, in K-12 schools anyway. 210 00:31:49,105.0614534 --> 00:32:12,315.0584534 And so seeing that happening so clearly and the sense of urgency in workforce spaces, like entry, mid-level senior positions across so many sectors, it's not just the change itself, like a job description changing, but also, the pace and the frequency of that change, like ongoing rapid change. 211 00:32:13,635.0584534 --> 00:32:16,735.0644534 That is It feels like the ground is moving beneath our feet. 212 00:32:17,165.0604534 --> 00:32:29,315.0624534 So it's not a matter of just we just need to update our standards to include AI literacy, or we just need to update the competencies or update our portrait of a graduate, 'cause then we can just be like, "Okay, it's updated, and we're done." 213 00:32:29,665.0604534 --> 00:32:40,12.5302381 It's the fact that this ongoing change means do we just update it again in six months? Do we just update it again in 12 months? that's true, then it, the cycle never ends. 214 00:32:40,252.5312381 --> 00:32:59,832.5372381 So for me, the potential here is are, is there an opportunity then to rethink the whole paradigm of schooling so that, 5, 10 years out, six months out, we're not scrambling to re-update everything every time the ground shifts. 215 00:33:00,122.5362381 --> 00:33:23,422.5422381 Can we figure out how to be nimble enough to flex with the changes so that we're not just patching again, and it, if we're more flexible, we can continue to adapt, we can continue to readjust for whatever comes next, so that students aren't graduating into a workforce that's already made their learning outdated by the time they've crossed the stage. 216 00:33:23,762.5422381 --> 00:33:34,302.5332381 Which right now, that's what it feels like this graduation around so many people are le- leaving, graduating with this sense of disillusionment of this workforce I'm not prepared for with the major that I have. 217 00:33:34,312.5412381 --> 00:33:47,570.0390229 and so for me I'm sitting with that, both the excitement and the hope and the potential of it, but also the challenge and the unknown of what the heck that could look like. 218 00:33:49,624.49688 --> 00:33:57,674.49588 that question Sandra keeps coming back to, who are we becoming through how we use AI, is one I think every educator, every parent, every leader needs to sit with. 219 00:33:58,64.49688 --> 00:34:05,264.49688 Whether you're a kindergartner putting stickers on a worksheet or a superintendent designing your district's next initiative, the answer matters. 220 00:34:05,347.1245459 --> 00:34:09,427.1245459 If you wanna learn more about Sandra's work, you can go to leadingeducators.org 221 00:34:11,414.0779307 --> 00:34:15,434.0789307 And If this conversation sparked something for you, head over to kinwise.ai. 222 00:34:15,434.0789307 --> 00:34:22,784.0789307 There you'll find resources, past episodes, and tools to help you keep thinking through what it actually looks like to lead with AI in your school or district. 223 00:34:23,84.0789307 --> 00:34:26,394.0799307 And as always, stay curious, stay grounded, and stay Kinwise
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