October 28, 2025 • 33 mins
School avoidance occurs when children experience intense anxiety about attending school, creating significant challenges for families. This often leaves parents, caregivers, and teachers feeling overwhelmed and unsure where to turn.
Symptoms can include morning meltdowns or a refusal to leave the car upon arrival at school. The causes of school avoidance are varied and can include social anxiety, bullying, sensory issues, or major family transitions. It is crucial to address these issues early, as prolonged school avoidance can negatively impact a child’s academic progress, social development, and mental health.
In this episode, Amanda and Melanie share their professional insights and lived experience, offering practical and compassionate strategies for families and educators supporting children who struggle to attend school.
Whether you are a parent, teacher, or allied health professional, this episode provides valuable advice and reassurance that you are not alone.
If you'd like to connect with us and learn more about LiveBig, visit livebig.com.au. Don't forget to subscribe for more conversations like this.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Welcome to Link up and Learn with Live Big.
I'm Sarah.
In this episode, we're covering schoolavoidance,
a challenge that touches many families and canno doubt feel very overwhelming at times.
I'm pleased to be joined by two fantasticguests from Live Big.
Amanda Trist, our area manager from New SouthWales and an occupational therapist,
(00:27):
and Melanie Gallaher, our area manager fromWestern Australia and a physiotherapist.
Together we will explore the issue of schoolavoidance,
discuss its causes and share strategies forfamilies, teachers and anyone supporting a
child who is having difficulty attendingschool.
Thank you both.
(00:49):
Melanie, let's start with you.
When we say school avoidance,
what do we actually mean?
So it can look like a number of things, butwe're really,
we're not talking about truancy, so we're nottalking about kids that go to school and then
leave school or are supposed to be going andwithout their parents knowledge just don't
(01:11):
turn up.
We are talking about children who are anxiousand distressed about going to school and just
really feel that they can't attend.
So you might see things like meltdowns in themorning.
There might be a lot of tears when trying toget up and get ready for school.
(01:32):
They might have physical complaints.
So they talk about stomach aches and not
wanting to go,
might find it really hard to get the child outof bed.
Or perhaps you can get to school but they justreally don't want to get out of the car.
Or perhaps you get to school but it's.
You're sort of stuck outside the classroom andit's really hard to just get them to walk
(01:53):
through the door into the classroom.
And we often see lots of these sort ofabsences and this sort of avoidance.
This I can't.
This we can't.
After weekends and holidays,
we'll often see Sunday nights that kids arealready starting to feel anxious and say that
they just don't want to go to school the nextmorning.
(02:15):
And it can be a real challenge.
Everybody sounds distressing.
Amanda, from your perspective, does thatresonate with what you see in your work?
Yes, definitely.
School avoidance is not a one size fits allsort of condition or response from the child
(02:35):
and Mel has been able to communicate.
There are lots and lots of different factors
that contribute to these and it can manifestin so many different ways and it really can
catch our families off guard.
It can present itself in so many differentways in that a child could be okay at home.
(02:57):
And it's only when presented with schoolattendance that the avoidance can be seen and
escalates into a point where that child is notreceiving the education that they would really
need.
And that's the tricky part.
It could be you could get your child, as Melwas saying, to a point where you're at the
(03:19):
school gate or you're outside the classroomdoor.
And that's when it becomes so difficult to getthem to be able to accept and move forward and
to be able to attend and enter that classroomsituation.
And it can also escalate at any time duringthe day.
It can be triggered by so many differentthings as well.
So some parents also may be successful atwalking through the gates, they might be
(03:44):
successful in entering a classroom, but thatphone call mid morning lunchtime occurs and
they need to go and pick their child up andreshuffle their day, reshuffle their
commitments to be able to accommodate for thefact that their child is unable to continue to
attend at school.
(04:05):
And it has such a big, big impact on thechildren's learning, but also their social
development,
their physical development,
their mental health,
wellbeing, and just the overall picture ofthat child can be so affected by not having
those opportunities to be able to thrive inthat school environment.
(04:27):
So, yeah, that, you know, what Mel has said isdefinitely what we can see with many of the
families that we work with.
So why do you think school avoidance happens?What are the most common causes?
This is a very individualised response toproblems that could be happening, you know,
(04:49):
with the child.
And each child is so different and each
child's circumstances are so different andtheir level of development is so different.
So it's extremely individualised.
But some of the more common reasons why achild may be avoiding attending school or
(05:09):
being able to walk through those doors into aclassroom could be around anxiety.
So that anxiety could be social anxiety.
Are they having difficulties sociallycommunicating and adapting and being able to
integrate socially into a classroom to theirpeers?
(05:30):
Separation anxiety from their families,
from what they feel familiar with.
So they are challenged with a new environmentand being unable to have the skills to cope
with those changes and those challenges.
That anxiety could also be related to asensory overload.
(05:51):
So schools are a very tight,
bright,
you know, cognitively challenging spaces thata child who is struggling with that sensory
regulation finds it very difficult to dealwith.
And often the environment has not been,
don't have the accommodations that child mightneed to deal with that sensory processing that
(06:16):
they're finding so difficult with.
It could be as simple as bullying.
There could be children that they are unableto be able to cope with in the playground
because they are experiencing bullying.
Which is, you know, something that our little
kiddos often experience at school.
(06:37):
Transitions also hard for our childrensometimes to process.
And that could be transitions that arehappening within the family unit.
It could be transitions from,
you know, starting school into kindy for thevery first time,
transitioning into primary school,
transitioning out of primary school into highschool.
So these transitions are big life stages in achild's life and those transitions, you know,
(07:04):
often pose challenges to the child as well.
I think the most common thing that people jumpto the conclusion of is that school avoidance
is a behavioural problem and it often isn't.
It's about a child's ability to be emotionallyintelligent,
being able to have the skills to communicateand socialise,
(07:26):
but also have the difficulty withcommunication.
Cognitive challenges,
but also it could be neurological in that itcould be a sensory processing problem.
Our little kiddos with neurodiversity findschool spaces very challenging places to be.
Mel, do you see similar patterns or are thereany other factors to add?
(07:49):
Yeah, so we've had a bit of experience of thiswithin my family and some of the other things
that you can see or that I have seen arethings such as perfectionistic tendencies.
So if you've got a child that's very awareothers in the class that are performing better
than they are or has a real internal drive todo everything very well and is putting a lot
(08:14):
of pressure on themselves and not meetingtheir own expectations,
that can create quite a lot of anxiety thatwill lead to school refusal as well.
There might be some really negative self talkgoing on.
So I'm not good at anything,
I can't do things as well as others in myclass or I'm not as good as sport as others.
(08:39):
So if there's some of that self talkhappening, then you can also have a child
that's just very anxious and not wanting to goto school because of that and constantly
comparing themselves to others in class.
So there can be a range of different thingsthat are happening for the child.
That means that for them school does not feellike a safe environment.
(09:02):
So I think it's really important to understandthat we're not.
It's important that we're not looking at it asa behavioral problem or a child who's being
naughty or trying to be naughty or difficult.
What's happening is that their brain is justperceiving that the school environment or the
(09:24):
classroom is a really unsafe area for them.
So you've got, in the back part of your brain,you've got this part called the amygdala and
what the amygdala does is its job is toconstantly scan the environment for any
threats and if it thinks that there's athreat,
it gives you a very strong signal.
(09:46):
So if school feels unsafe for whatever reason,
the amygdala starts to kick off and it givesyou a warning signal in the form of anxiety
that will make the child feel very, veryanxious because their brain is saying to them,
don't go to school, school is unsafe and youshouldn't go.
(10:07):
And so they're naturally going to respond tothat by not wanting to go.
So what we really need to do to support themis to really try and understand what the
actual issues are for them.
Why does school feel so unsafe and what can wedo about those individual issues so that they
(10:29):
start to feel safer when they're at school?
Amanda, what happens if school avoidance isn'taddressed early?
Yes, Sarah, thanks for that.
That's a great question.
I think it's fairly obvious that if we don'taddress this problem early, it's going to lead
to greater problems and challenges for thekiddos as they continue to grow.
(10:52):
So without going to school, they're going tomiss out those learning and academic
opportunities and, you know, fall behind intheir academic learning,
which is going to have all sorts ofimplications for the opportunities that they
might be available to them as they, as theygrow.
They're not going to have the opportunity tobuild the skills that they need, you know, to
(11:15):
move on, on into, in through their academicjourneys.
There's also going to be an impact on theirability to socialise and to be, you know, a
social, a social human being and being able tointegrate into,
into the greater society as they grow,
you know, this, this age is really importantto build those social skills.
(11:39):
They're learning,
you know, what it means to sociallycommunicate, interact,
become emotionally intelligent.
So it's a, it's a key, it's a key age to getall of those skills and embed those into,
into what they need to do in their everydaylives moving forward.
You know, school age is where you learn tonavigate relationships, to solve problems, to
(12:04):
learn what it means to be part of a communityor to be part of a group.
It's where kiddos learn, you know, what's,
what's acceptable, what's not acceptable,
what's an expected behaviour or an unexpectedbehaviour.
And that's going to have a knock on effectalso for our children's mental health
(12:26):
development.
So if these kids are feeling isolated andanxious,
there's always going to be a Knock on effectwith mental health concerns,
anxieties can deepen and really grow into somemore challenging health concerns.
Mental health concerns such as depression,
(12:47):
you know, and all of the risks that areassociated with that.
So. And it can become a vicious cycle.
Once a child starts avoiding school,
anxiety can increase.
That increased anxiety is going to make goingto school harder.
So it becomes a vicious cycle and it has aknock on effect in the family.
(13:10):
So parents often feel guilty, they feelfrustrated, they feel isolated, they feel lost
and unable to try and find those solutions.
No parent wants to see their child struggle,
no parent wants to see their child, you know,being unable to thrive,
which is going to have a massive knock oneffect into that family unit as well.
(13:31):
And it can be just exhausting and emotionallydraining for everybody involved.
So catching it early and trying to find some,
trying to identify what the underlying problemcould be and then implementing solutions to
help fix that is really, really important.
Mel, what do you see in terms of the impact onfamilies and schools?
(13:54):
Look, it's just really hard for everyone.
Obviously the child themselves is going
through a really difficult time as the parentor the carer.
It's incredib distressing to see your child gothrough a hard time.
The tears in the morning, et cetera, arereally hard to deal with.
Can create a huge amount of stress at home,particularly in the mornings when you're
(14:18):
trying to get kids off to school.
But also worry for the parent around wherethis is going to lead to.
Is the child becoming further and furtherbehind at school.
School,
it's obviously difficult for the schools aswell.
There's a certain level of disruption.
It can be really hard when there is adisconnect between school and the carers.
(14:43):
So it's really important that those lines ofcommunication are kept open and that the
child's not being labelled as a naughty child,but rather it's understood that they're having
some real difficulties that they need supportwith.
And parents can often feel quite judged aswell.
I think most of us as parents are constantlyfeeling like we're not doing as good a job as
(15:06):
we would like to.
And if you've got a child who's not going toschool and you don't feel that you're able to
support them in the way that they need,
you can feel,
you know, really bad about that and feel likeyou're being judged.
So parents need a lot of support as well asthe child do.
Amanda, if a parent is listening right now andfeeling overwhelmed, what's the first thing
(15:31):
they can do?
I think it's really important that parentsunderstand and appreciate that those feelings
of guilt that Melanie was just talking about,
normal for any parent, you know, when you'relooking at your child distressed,
but it's really important to stay calm and tovalidate the child's feelings and to allow
(15:58):
that child to be able to have that space, thatsafe space to let mum and dad know what's
happening for them.
So things like, you know, I can see thatschool's gonna be really getting to school
today is really hard for you.
Can you tell me about that?Can we work through this together?
(16:18):
What can we do to make you feel better at thistime, in this moment, but to make sure that
you're communicating in a way that's reallycalm and it's creating a safe space for that
child to be able to let you know what'shappening to them at that moment.
Once we escalate to behaviours of noddingbehaviours, but overstimulation,
(16:42):
live meltdowns,
it's really hard to get back to that calmplace.
So by starting off on a calm, even footing isgoing to be helpful.
So another strategy is also going to be makingsure that we are talking to the school and
communicating with the school and using theschool as a team approach.
(17:05):
It's not just the parents responsibility andit's not just the school's responsibility.
It's a team effort because the strategies, orthe strategies that you come up with need to
be consistent and they need to carry over fromhome to school and back again.
So if it is because we have sensory processingproblems, the parent and the school could work
(17:28):
together to create a safe space on arrival,
a more flexible start time,
so that that child is not arriving in thehustle and bustle of that 9 o' clock bell when
everybody's running,
you know, around the school playground andinto their, into their rooms.
They could set up buddy systems where thatchild might have a little buddy at school,
(17:53):
which, you know, offers them some support andsome social interactions,
helping them feel safe.
That can make a huge difference,
making sure that that environment has been setup.
So that's a great way that parents and schoolscould work together to see if they could set
up a safe place within a classroom for thatchild.
(18:17):
Having predictable routines is reallyimportant.
So sometimes children have difficulties copingwith change and unexpected change.
So if we, if we have very predictable routinesso that they know what is happening next,
then they know what they're going to expectand they know that they're going what's
(18:39):
expected of them,
so that Change is not going to be quite asintimidating and triggering those anxious
responses.
And those routines can also, if we make themvisual,
that's a great way for children to be able tofollow, follow through with them.
And if you make those routines visual but alsoadaptable and give the child control over what
(19:05):
those routines might look like,
that helps that child to also feel safe.
Because I'm now able to have some input into
how I want my routine to look,
what it's going to do during a day,
and it gives them some sense of control backto the child as well.
Occupational therapists often use what we callan emotional regulation toolkit.
(19:28):
And they might be strategies that are veryspecific and individualized.
So an emotional regulation toolkit is going tobe individualized and it's going to help that
kiddo manage their sensory overload or theirsensory regulation.
And that could be simply like a weighted lappad,
(19:51):
a weighted teddy bear having some movementbreaks,
having a space that they could retreat to todo some breathing exercises in,
allowing them to sit on a wiggle chair in theclassroom or have a little elastic band around
their chair that they can bang their legsagainst because they need to seek that
(20:13):
movement to be able to learn.
So there's lots of different things that atherapist could come in and help give some
recommendations and trials and differentthings to help them regulate their emotions.
And I guess the other thing that a parentmight want to do is explore,
you know,
do we have some circumstances within thatclassroom where that child might feel unsafe?
(20:37):
Is it because that they're having a hard timedealing with another child?
Are they having a hard time dealing with ordeveloping a relationship with a particular
teacher?But you know, is there a reason why that child
is feeling unsafe in that classroom?
So I guess, you know,
very simply there might be some ideas that wecould give a parent, but obviously the list is
(21:00):
kind of never ending and that list needs to beindividualised to the child.
Mel, do you have anything to add for theparents out there listening?
Yeah, look, I think the main thing is thatthere is support out there.
It can take a while to figure things out, butthere are lots of places and people that you
(21:21):
can go to for support.
I think the first really important thing is tobe like an investigator and try and figure out
what the causes are and what's going on.
So having a chat with your child first,
make it really non threatening,
really calm, really open.
(21:41):
Just have that sort of interested scientistkind of cap on.
We know kids often don't like havingdiscussions about,
about difficult things.
So you might need to do it when you're not
sort of facing each other, not eye to eye, butsort of side by side.
We have a lot of conversations in the car orin the park whilst we're walking the dog.
(22:07):
Might be while you're playing a game of Uno orout the front shooting hoops or something like
that, but just having that really openconversation and inviting them to really let
you know what's going on.
And then I think the next thing that's reallyimportant is to have a chat with the teachers
at school, just find out what's going on inthe classroom.
(22:28):
How do things look in the playground?
Again, it's just about gathering moreinformation about around what the causes might
be.
And then most parents or carers will have apretty strong gut feel about where they think
the issues are.
So is it to do with handwriting?Do we need OT intervention or is there some
(22:50):
really negative self talk?Do we maybe need some psych intervention or is
there some bullying going on?
And we need to have really in depthdiscussions with the school.
Once you've got a bit of an idea of what youthink might be happening.
One other really good person to go to might beyour gp where you can talk about what's going
(23:15):
on and what your gut feel is and then exploresome options as far as referrals to a
paediatrician, if you think there might be,
say, an ADHD diagnosis there that needsexploring,
or whether it's referral for OT or physio, ifthere's, you know, physical problems with
(23:37):
sport, etc.
Or whether it might be psychology, to have alook at some of those sort of negative self
talks, et cetera.
So that can be a really good starting place
along with those really strong conversationswith the school.
And if you do get a specialist or an alliedhealth professional on board,
(24:00):
again, just making sure that everyone'scommunicating with each other and that you're
all on the same page.
And obviously, obviously you've got to include
the child in what the plans are and make surethat they're happy with everything as well.
Amanda, you also mentioned it's important toinform the teachers at school.
What can teachers do to support thesestudents?
(24:22):
I think the teacher's role is so importantwhen we're supporting kiddos who really do
have and are experiencing school avoidance.
And look, our hats are off to those, thoseteachers,
you know, they do such a marvellouslywonderful job.
But it's, it's great to consider and put insome strategies as to why these, why these
(24:46):
Kids might be avoiding school.
I think one, you know, Mel's touched on itseveral times,
creating safe spaces, welcoming spaces wherethat child feels like they are included, that
they have a voice, that they feel safe isreally important.
I remember watching on a YouTube clip,
(25:08):
some teachers have the most amazing warmwelcome routine where they line the kids up at
the, at the door to their classroom andeveryone gets to choose a greeting.
It could be a high five, it could be a, itcould be a hug,
it could be a, a little dance, whatever it is.
But to create that warm welcome into a
(25:29):
classroom.
So walking through those doors is a fun and
exciting experience and not something that achild might dread.
And, and being inclusive with the whole, thewhole,
the whole class being able to say, hey, it'sreally great to see you coming with that
positive, warm,
welcoming attitude.
(25:49):
I think it's great.
And then making sure that there are safespaces within classrooms for regulation,
being, identifying early when that regulationneeds to happen,
I think that's a real skill.
I think I touched on it before.
You know, when a child is experiencing sensoryprocessing difficulties and they're getting to
that edge where they're unable to process andit, and it flips into what we call, you know,
(26:16):
you flip your lid.
Mel touched on it.
When our thinking brain gets turned off and
our emotional brain gets turned on,
our child loses the ability to thinkrationally.
And if you can, if you can work that out, youcan identify it before that happens and offer
some regulation strategies,
(26:36):
you're going to hopefully, or you may have abetter opportunity of preventing a meltdown
from happening,
you know, and give that child an opportunityto calm down and then rejoin the classroom
later.
Being able to be flexible is going to be a keything for teachers.
And I know they have to stick to a routine anda schedule, but also being able to say, okay,
(27:00):
I can see that this child is on the verge ofnot coping.
Let's be flexible and give them theopportunity to have a,
a timeout,
a walk around the classroom.
They might give them a task to do.
Can you take this up to the principal or tothe front office so that they can, you know,
take the lunch orders up to the canteen sothat child has an opportunity to,
(27:24):
you know,
have a space where they can calm down and comeback to the, to the classroom when they're
ready?
You know, small adjustments within the day ofa classroom can be really, really important.
So, you know,
I know of a child who really struggled withgroup work and whenever they,
(27:45):
the class was asked to join up into smallgroups, to do some work that was absolutely
triggering and terrifying for that child.
And that's when those avoidant behaviors
really kicked in.
But being able to sort of be flexible enoughto create an area where that child was able to
do some side by side learning and then whenthey were ready to join the group, because
(28:10):
they could see that that was safe, they couldsee that they were able to integrate at their
own pace,
that made the world of difference to thatchild.
And teachers need to,
and I'm sure they do, but teachers need to beable to work as a team with that child's
family and then both the child's therapistthat might be involved with them.
(28:34):
Because if you're all on the same page andyou're all implementing the same strategies
and you're all evaluating those strategies tosee if they're being effective,
and then you're all collaborating to see what,
what the most effective strategies are, thenyou're going to provide opportunities for
success for that, for that child.
(28:54):
So, yeah, it's about creating an environment,
school environment, that feels safe,
that feels predictable, that feels supporting,
and teachers who can lead with empathy andflexibility, I think is a huge part of the
solution.
Mel, how can teachers and parents worktogether effectively?
Yeah, very much, as Amanda mentioned, justthat real sense of working together as a team,
(29:20):
communicating,
sharing information with each other.
So I guess as a parent we expect a lot fromteachers and they have a really difficult job.
So making sure that we're not just going withextra load for them,
but talking about what we're doing as well,who we've seen,
for example, you know, went to see the ot.
(29:42):
We've got some really good strategies around
writing,
letting the teacher know that you're keen towork with them,
but also making sure that you're sharing winswith each other as well and not just the
challenges.
So that might look like saying,
you know, thanks for moving my daughter to thefront of the classroom.
(30:03):
She's mentioned that now she's not comparingherself to everybody else because she's not
looking around at everyone else.
That's made a big difference.
Thank you so much for being flexible.
Just really having that approach that you'reboth working together for the best outcome for
the child.
Really.
Amanda, at what point should parents seekprofessional help?
(30:27):
Yeah, we've already talked about that.
You know, early intervention is important
because the longer that school avoidance goeson for, the harder it's going to be to break
that cycle.
And you know, anxiety is something that ifit's not actually managed well, early just
(30:49):
snowballs to A point where it becomes out ofcontrol and it has all sorts of implications
for that child's, you know, mental health andwellbeing.
So getting in early is important.
So I wouldn't be sitting back and just, youknow, waiting and seeing,
but I'd be starting to have conversationsearly on.
(31:11):
Mel touched on it.
Definitely with your gp,
getting the professional assessments thatmight be needed to see, you know, what is the
underlying cause,
is there a diagnosis that needs to be soughtso that you've got an opportunity to know
what's going on for that child and thenputting some strategies in place to do that?
(31:35):
So, yeah, talking to your gp paediatrician,really, really important.
And then they'll be able to advise, you know,what other therapy or professionals may
benefit your child,
whether that be occupational therapy, speechpathology,
physiotherapy,
(31:55):
psychology,
to help talk through some of those cognitivedifficulties.
Being able to have, being able to adapt tochange.
How do we counteract all of that negative selftalk?
So it's important to get in early and it'simportant to seek professional assessments and
(32:17):
professional interventions early.
And it's important to start those
conversations with your school and theclassroom teacher early as well.
Once they escalate, it's really difficult torein it in and,
you know, find the solutions that that childneeds to be able to develop in the way that we
(32:37):
would love our children to.
Great advice.
Well, thank you so much, Amanda and Mel, forjoining us and sharing your expertise on
understanding and managing school avoidance.
If you'd like to connect with us and learnmore about LiveBIG, visit livebig.com au and
don't forget to subscribe for moreconversations like this.
(33:00):
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you nexttime.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of thisnation whose country we work and live in.
We recognise Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslanders as traditional custodians and their
ongoing connections to land and sea.
We pay our respects to elders past, presentand emerging as law keepers of the world's
(33:23):
oldest living culture.
We celebrate the stories, culture andtraditions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islanders so we can, in the true spirit ofreconciliation,
continue the journey together.
Welcome to Link up and Learn with Live Big.
I'm Sarah.
In this episode, we're covering schoolavoidance,
a challenge that touches many families and canno doubt feel very overwhelming at times.
I'm pleased to be joined by two fantasticguests from Live Big.
Amanda Trist, our area manager from New SouthWales and an occupational therapist,
(00:27):
and Melanie Gallaher, our area manager fromWestern Australia and a physiotherapist.
Together we will explore the issue of schoolavoidance,
discuss its causes and share strategies forfamilies, teachers and anyone supporting a
child who is having difficulty attendingschool.
Thank you both.
(00:49):
Melanie, let's start with you.
When we say school avoidance,
what do we actually mean?
So it can look like a number of things, butwe're really,
we're not talking about truancy, so we're nottalking about kids that go to school and then
leave school or are supposed to be going andwithout their parents knowledge just don't
(01:11):
turn up.
We are talking about children who are anxiousand distressed about going to school and just
really feel that they can't attend.
So you might see things like meltdowns in themorning.
There might be a lot of tears when trying toget up and get ready for school.
(01:32):
They might have physical complaints.
So they talk about stomach aches and not
wanting to go,
might find it really hard to get the child outof bed.
Or perhaps you can get to school but they justreally don't want to get out of the car.
Or perhaps you get to school but it's.
You're sort of stuck outside the classroom andit's really hard to just get them to walk
(01:53):
through the door into the classroom.
And we often see lots of these sort ofabsences and this sort of avoidance.
This I can't.
This we can't.
After weekends and holidays,
we'll often see Sunday nights that kids arealready starting to feel anxious and say that
they just don't want to go to school the nextmorning.
(02:15):
And it can be a real challenge.
Everybody sounds distressing.
Amanda, from your perspective, does thatresonate with what you see in your work?
Yes, definitely.
School avoidance is not a one size fits allsort of condition or response from the child
(02:35):
and Mel has been able to communicate.
There are lots and lots of different factors
that contribute to these and it can manifestin so many different ways and it really can
catch our families off guard.
It can present itself in so many differentways in that a child could be okay at home.
(02:57):
And it's only when presented with schoolattendance that the avoidance can be seen and
escalates into a point where that child is notreceiving the education that they would really
need.
And that's the tricky part.
It could be you could get your child, as Melwas saying, to a point where you're at the
(03:19):
school gate or you're outside the classroomdoor.
And that's when it becomes so difficult to getthem to be able to accept and move forward and
to be able to attend and enter that classroomsituation.
And it can also escalate at any time duringthe day.
It can be triggered by so many differentthings as well.
So some parents also may be successful atwalking through the gates, they might be
(03:44):
successful in entering a classroom, but thatphone call mid morning lunchtime occurs and
they need to go and pick their child up andreshuffle their day, reshuffle their
commitments to be able to accommodate for thefact that their child is unable to continue to
attend at school.
(04:05):
And it has such a big, big impact on thechildren's learning, but also their social
development,
their physical development,
their mental health,
wellbeing, and just the overall picture ofthat child can be so affected by not having
those opportunities to be able to thrive inthat school environment.
(04:27):
So, yeah, that, you know, what Mel has said isdefinitely what we can see with many of the
families that we work with.
So why do you think school avoidance happens?What are the most common causes?
This is a very individualised response toproblems that could be happening, you know,
(04:49):
with the child.
And each child is so different and each
child's circumstances are so different andtheir level of development is so different.
So it's extremely individualised.
But some of the more common reasons why achild may be avoiding attending school or
(05:09):
being able to walk through those doors into aclassroom could be around anxiety.
So that anxiety could be social anxiety.
Are they having difficulties sociallycommunicating and adapting and being able to
integrate socially into a classroom to theirpeers?
(05:30):
Separation anxiety from their families,
from what they feel familiar with.
So they are challenged with a new environmentand being unable to have the skills to cope
with those changes and those challenges.
That anxiety could also be related to asensory overload.
(05:51):
So schools are a very tight,
bright,
you know, cognitively challenging spaces thata child who is struggling with that sensory
regulation finds it very difficult to dealwith.
And often the environment has not been,
don't have the accommodations that child mightneed to deal with that sensory processing that
(06:16):
they're finding so difficult with.
It could be as simple as bullying.
There could be children that they are unableto be able to cope with in the playground
because they are experiencing bullying.
Which is, you know, something that our little
kiddos often experience at school.
(06:37):
Transitions also hard for our childrensometimes to process.
And that could be transitions that arehappening within the family unit.
It could be transitions from,
you know, starting school into kindy for thevery first time,
transitioning into primary school,
transitioning out of primary school into highschool.
So these transitions are big life stages in achild's life and those transitions, you know,
(07:04):
often pose challenges to the child as well.
I think the most common thing that people jumpto the conclusion of is that school avoidance
is a behavioural problem and it often isn't.
It's about a child's ability to be emotionallyintelligent,
being able to have the skills to communicateand socialise,
(07:26):
but also have the difficulty withcommunication.
Cognitive challenges,
but also it could be neurological in that itcould be a sensory processing problem.
Our little kiddos with neurodiversity findschool spaces very challenging places to be.
Mel, do you see similar patterns or are thereany other factors to add?
(07:49):
Yeah, so we've had a bit of experience of thiswithin my family and some of the other things
that you can see or that I have seen arethings such as perfectionistic tendencies.
So if you've got a child that's very awareothers in the class that are performing better
than they are or has a real internal drive todo everything very well and is putting a lot
(08:14):
of pressure on themselves and not meetingtheir own expectations,
that can create quite a lot of anxiety thatwill lead to school refusal as well.
There might be some really negative self talkgoing on.
So I'm not good at anything,
I can't do things as well as others in myclass or I'm not as good as sport as others.
(08:39):
So if there's some of that self talkhappening, then you can also have a child
that's just very anxious and not wanting to goto school because of that and constantly
comparing themselves to others in class.
So there can be a range of different thingsthat are happening for the child.
That means that for them school does not feellike a safe environment.
(09:02):
So I think it's really important to understandthat we're not.
It's important that we're not looking at it asa behavioral problem or a child who's being
naughty or trying to be naughty or difficult.
What's happening is that their brain is justperceiving that the school environment or the
(09:24):
classroom is a really unsafe area for them.
So you've got, in the back part of your brain,you've got this part called the amygdala and
what the amygdala does is its job is toconstantly scan the environment for any
threats and if it thinks that there's athreat,
it gives you a very strong signal.
(09:46):
So if school feels unsafe for whatever reason,
the amygdala starts to kick off and it givesyou a warning signal in the form of anxiety
that will make the child feel very, veryanxious because their brain is saying to them,
don't go to school, school is unsafe and youshouldn't go.
(10:07):
And so they're naturally going to respond tothat by not wanting to go.
So what we really need to do to support themis to really try and understand what the
actual issues are for them.
Why does school feel so unsafe and what can wedo about those individual issues so that they
(10:29):
start to feel safer when they're at school?
Amanda, what happens if school avoidance isn'taddressed early?
Yes, Sarah, thanks for that.
That's a great question.
I think it's fairly obvious that if we don'taddress this problem early, it's going to lead
to greater problems and challenges for thekiddos as they continue to grow.
(10:52):
So without going to school, they're going tomiss out those learning and academic
opportunities and, you know, fall behind intheir academic learning,
which is going to have all sorts ofimplications for the opportunities that they
might be available to them as they, as theygrow.
They're not going to have the opportunity tobuild the skills that they need, you know, to
(11:15):
move on, on into, in through their academicjourneys.
There's also going to be an impact on theirability to socialise and to be, you know, a
social, a social human being and being able tointegrate into,
into the greater society as they grow,
you know, this, this age is really importantto build those social skills.
(11:39):
They're learning,
you know, what it means to sociallycommunicate, interact,
become emotionally intelligent.
So it's a, it's a key, it's a key age to getall of those skills and embed those into,
into what they need to do in their everydaylives moving forward.
You know, school age is where you learn tonavigate relationships, to solve problems, to
(12:04):
learn what it means to be part of a communityor to be part of a group.
It's where kiddos learn, you know, what's,
what's acceptable, what's not acceptable,
what's an expected behaviour or an unexpectedbehaviour.
And that's going to have a knock on effectalso for our children's mental health
(12:26):
development.
So if these kids are feeling isolated andanxious,
there's always going to be a Knock on effectwith mental health concerns,
anxieties can deepen and really grow into somemore challenging health concerns.
Mental health concerns such as depression,
(12:47):
you know, and all of the risks that areassociated with that.
So. And it can become a vicious cycle.
Once a child starts avoiding school,
anxiety can increase.
That increased anxiety is going to make goingto school harder.
So it becomes a vicious cycle and it has aknock on effect in the family.
(13:10):
So parents often feel guilty, they feelfrustrated, they feel isolated, they feel lost
and unable to try and find those solutions.
No parent wants to see their child struggle,
no parent wants to see their child, you know,being unable to thrive,
which is going to have a massive knock oneffect into that family unit as well.
(13:31):
And it can be just exhausting and emotionallydraining for everybody involved.
So catching it early and trying to find some,
trying to identify what the underlying problemcould be and then implementing solutions to
help fix that is really, really important.
Mel, what do you see in terms of the impact onfamilies and schools?
(13:54):
Look, it's just really hard for everyone.
Obviously the child themselves is going
through a really difficult time as the parentor the carer.
It's incredib distressing to see your child gothrough a hard time.
The tears in the morning, et cetera, arereally hard to deal with.
Can create a huge amount of stress at home,particularly in the mornings when you're
(14:18):
trying to get kids off to school.
But also worry for the parent around wherethis is going to lead to.
Is the child becoming further and furtherbehind at school.
School,
it's obviously difficult for the schools aswell.
There's a certain level of disruption.
It can be really hard when there is adisconnect between school and the carers.
(14:43):
So it's really important that those lines ofcommunication are kept open and that the
child's not being labelled as a naughty child,but rather it's understood that they're having
some real difficulties that they need supportwith.
And parents can often feel quite judged aswell.
I think most of us as parents are constantlyfeeling like we're not doing as good a job as
(15:06):
we would like to.
And if you've got a child who's not going toschool and you don't feel that you're able to
support them in the way that they need,
you can feel,
you know, really bad about that and feel likeyou're being judged.
So parents need a lot of support as well asthe child do.
Amanda, if a parent is listening right now andfeeling overwhelmed, what's the first thing
(15:31):
they can do?
I think it's really important that parentsunderstand and appreciate that those feelings
of guilt that Melanie was just talking about,
normal for any parent, you know, when you'relooking at your child distressed,
but it's really important to stay calm and tovalidate the child's feelings and to allow
(15:58):
that child to be able to have that space, thatsafe space to let mum and dad know what's
happening for them.
So things like, you know, I can see thatschool's gonna be really getting to school
today is really hard for you.
Can you tell me about that?Can we work through this together?
(16:18):
What can we do to make you feel better at thistime, in this moment, but to make sure that
you're communicating in a way that's reallycalm and it's creating a safe space for that
child to be able to let you know what'shappening to them at that moment.
Once we escalate to behaviours of noddingbehaviours, but overstimulation,
(16:42):
live meltdowns,
it's really hard to get back to that calmplace.
So by starting off on a calm, even footing isgoing to be helpful.
So another strategy is also going to be makingsure that we are talking to the school and
communicating with the school and using theschool as a team approach.
(17:05):
It's not just the parents responsibility andit's not just the school's responsibility.
It's a team effort because the strategies, orthe strategies that you come up with need to
be consistent and they need to carry over fromhome to school and back again.
So if it is because we have sensory processingproblems, the parent and the school could work
(17:28):
together to create a safe space on arrival,
a more flexible start time,
so that that child is not arriving in thehustle and bustle of that 9 o' clock bell when
everybody's running,
you know, around the school playground andinto their, into their rooms.
They could set up buddy systems where thatchild might have a little buddy at school,
(17:53):
which, you know, offers them some support andsome social interactions,
helping them feel safe.
That can make a huge difference,
making sure that that environment has been setup.
So that's a great way that parents and schoolscould work together to see if they could set
up a safe place within a classroom for thatchild.
(18:17):
Having predictable routines is reallyimportant.
So sometimes children have difficulties copingwith change and unexpected change.
So if we, if we have very predictable routinesso that they know what is happening next,
then they know what they're going to expectand they know that they're going what's
(18:39):
expected of them,
so that Change is not going to be quite asintimidating and triggering those anxious
responses.
And those routines can also, if we make themvisual,
that's a great way for children to be able tofollow, follow through with them.
And if you make those routines visual but alsoadaptable and give the child control over what
(19:05):
those routines might look like,
that helps that child to also feel safe.
Because I'm now able to have some input into
how I want my routine to look,
what it's going to do during a day,
and it gives them some sense of control backto the child as well.
Occupational therapists often use what we callan emotional regulation toolkit.
(19:28):
And they might be strategies that are veryspecific and individualized.
So an emotional regulation toolkit is going tobe individualized and it's going to help that
kiddo manage their sensory overload or theirsensory regulation.
And that could be simply like a weighted lappad,
(19:51):
a weighted teddy bear having some movementbreaks,
having a space that they could retreat to todo some breathing exercises in,
allowing them to sit on a wiggle chair in theclassroom or have a little elastic band around
their chair that they can bang their legsagainst because they need to seek that
(20:13):
movement to be able to learn.
So there's lots of different things that atherapist could come in and help give some
recommendations and trials and differentthings to help them regulate their emotions.
And I guess the other thing that a parentmight want to do is explore,
you know,
do we have some circumstances within thatclassroom where that child might feel unsafe?
(20:37):
Is it because that they're having a hard timedealing with another child?
Are they having a hard time dealing with ordeveloping a relationship with a particular
teacher?But you know, is there a reason why that child
is feeling unsafe in that classroom?
So I guess, you know,
very simply there might be some ideas that wecould give a parent, but obviously the list is
(21:00):
kind of never ending and that list needs to beindividualised to the child.
Mel, do you have anything to add for theparents out there listening?
Yeah, look, I think the main thing is thatthere is support out there.
It can take a while to figure things out, butthere are lots of places and people that you
(21:21):
can go to for support.
I think the first really important thing is tobe like an investigator and try and figure out
what the causes are and what's going on.
So having a chat with your child first,
make it really non threatening,
really calm, really open.
(21:41):
Just have that sort of interested scientistkind of cap on.
We know kids often don't like havingdiscussions about,
about difficult things.
So you might need to do it when you're not
sort of facing each other, not eye to eye, butsort of side by side.
We have a lot of conversations in the car orin the park whilst we're walking the dog.
(22:07):
Might be while you're playing a game of Uno orout the front shooting hoops or something like
that, but just having that really openconversation and inviting them to really let
you know what's going on.
And then I think the next thing that's reallyimportant is to have a chat with the teachers
at school, just find out what's going on inthe classroom.
(22:28):
How do things look in the playground?
Again, it's just about gathering moreinformation about around what the causes might
be.
And then most parents or carers will have apretty strong gut feel about where they think
the issues are.
So is it to do with handwriting?Do we need OT intervention or is there some
(22:50):
really negative self talk?Do we maybe need some psych intervention or is
there some bullying going on?
And we need to have really in depthdiscussions with the school.
Once you've got a bit of an idea of what youthink might be happening.
One other really good person to go to might beyour gp where you can talk about what's going
(23:15):
on and what your gut feel is and then exploresome options as far as referrals to a
paediatrician, if you think there might be,
say, an ADHD diagnosis there that needsexploring,
or whether it's referral for OT or physio, ifthere's, you know, physical problems with
(23:37):
sport, etc.
Or whether it might be psychology, to have alook at some of those sort of negative self
talks, et cetera.
So that can be a really good starting place
along with those really strong conversationswith the school.
And if you do get a specialist or an alliedhealth professional on board,
(24:00):
again, just making sure that everyone'scommunicating with each other and that you're
all on the same page.
And obviously, obviously you've got to include
the child in what the plans are and make surethat they're happy with everything as well.
Amanda, you also mentioned it's important toinform the teachers at school.
What can teachers do to support thesestudents?
(24:22):
I think the teacher's role is so importantwhen we're supporting kiddos who really do
have and are experiencing school avoidance.
And look, our hats are off to those, thoseteachers,
you know, they do such a marvellouslywonderful job.
But it's, it's great to consider and put insome strategies as to why these, why these
(24:46):
Kids might be avoiding school.
I think one, you know, Mel's touched on itseveral times,
creating safe spaces, welcoming spaces wherethat child feels like they are included, that
they have a voice, that they feel safe isreally important.
I remember watching on a YouTube clip,
(25:08):
some teachers have the most amazing warmwelcome routine where they line the kids up at
the, at the door to their classroom andeveryone gets to choose a greeting.
It could be a high five, it could be a, itcould be a hug,
it could be a, a little dance, whatever it is.
But to create that warm welcome into a
(25:29):
classroom.
So walking through those doors is a fun and
exciting experience and not something that achild might dread.
And, and being inclusive with the whole, thewhole,
the whole class being able to say, hey, it'sreally great to see you coming with that
positive, warm,
welcoming attitude.
(25:49):
I think it's great.
And then making sure that there are safespaces within classrooms for regulation,
being, identifying early when that regulationneeds to happen,
I think that's a real skill.
I think I touched on it before.
You know, when a child is experiencing sensoryprocessing difficulties and they're getting to
that edge where they're unable to process andit, and it flips into what we call, you know,
(26:16):
you flip your lid.
Mel touched on it.
When our thinking brain gets turned off and
our emotional brain gets turned on,
our child loses the ability to thinkrationally.
And if you can, if you can work that out, youcan identify it before that happens and offer
some regulation strategies,
(26:36):
you're going to hopefully, or you may have abetter opportunity of preventing a meltdown
from happening,
you know, and give that child an opportunityto calm down and then rejoin the classroom
later.
Being able to be flexible is going to be a keything for teachers.
And I know they have to stick to a routine anda schedule, but also being able to say, okay,
(27:00):
I can see that this child is on the verge ofnot coping.
Let's be flexible and give them theopportunity to have a,
a timeout,
a walk around the classroom.
They might give them a task to do.
Can you take this up to the principal or tothe front office so that they can, you know,
take the lunch orders up to the canteen sothat child has an opportunity to,
(27:24):
you know,
have a space where they can calm down and comeback to the, to the classroom when they're
ready?
You know, small adjustments within the day ofa classroom can be really, really important.
So, you know,
I know of a child who really struggled withgroup work and whenever they,
(27:45):
the class was asked to join up into smallgroups, to do some work that was absolutely
triggering and terrifying for that child.
And that's when those avoidant behaviors
really kicked in.
But being able to sort of be flexible enoughto create an area where that child was able to
do some side by side learning and then whenthey were ready to join the group, because
(28:10):
they could see that that was safe, they couldsee that they were able to integrate at their
own pace,
that made the world of difference to thatchild.
And teachers need to,
and I'm sure they do, but teachers need to beable to work as a team with that child's
family and then both the child's therapistthat might be involved with them.
(28:34):
Because if you're all on the same page andyou're all implementing the same strategies
and you're all evaluating those strategies tosee if they're being effective,
and then you're all collaborating to see what,
what the most effective strategies are, thenyou're going to provide opportunities for
success for that, for that child.
(28:54):
So, yeah, it's about creating an environment,
school environment, that feels safe,
that feels predictable, that feels supporting,
and teachers who can lead with empathy andflexibility, I think is a huge part of the
solution.
Mel, how can teachers and parents worktogether effectively?
Yeah, very much, as Amanda mentioned, justthat real sense of working together as a team,
(29:20):
communicating,
sharing information with each other.
So I guess as a parent we expect a lot fromteachers and they have a really difficult job.
So making sure that we're not just going withextra load for them,
but talking about what we're doing as well,who we've seen,
for example, you know, went to see the ot.
(29:42):
We've got some really good strategies around
writing,
letting the teacher know that you're keen towork with them,
but also making sure that you're sharing winswith each other as well and not just the
challenges.
So that might look like saying,
you know, thanks for moving my daughter to thefront of the classroom.
(30:03):
She's mentioned that now she's not comparingherself to everybody else because she's not
looking around at everyone else.
That's made a big difference.
Thank you so much for being flexible.
Just really having that approach that you'reboth working together for the best outcome for
the child.
Really.
Amanda, at what point should parents seekprofessional help?
(30:27):
Yeah, we've already talked about that.
You know, early intervention is important
because the longer that school avoidance goeson for, the harder it's going to be to break
that cycle.
And you know, anxiety is something that ifit's not actually managed well, early just
(30:49):
snowballs to A point where it becomes out ofcontrol and it has all sorts of implications
for that child's, you know, mental health andwellbeing.
So getting in early is important.
So I wouldn't be sitting back and just, youknow, waiting and seeing,
but I'd be starting to have conversationsearly on.
(31:11):
Mel touched on it.
Definitely with your gp,
getting the professional assessments thatmight be needed to see, you know, what is the
underlying cause,
is there a diagnosis that needs to be soughtso that you've got an opportunity to know
what's going on for that child and thenputting some strategies in place to do that?
(31:35):
So, yeah, talking to your gp paediatrician,really, really important.
And then they'll be able to advise, you know,what other therapy or professionals may
benefit your child,
whether that be occupational therapy, speechpathology,
physiotherapy,
(31:55):
psychology,
to help talk through some of those cognitivedifficulties.
Being able to have, being able to adapt tochange.
How do we counteract all of that negative selftalk?
So it's important to get in early and it'simportant to seek professional assessments and
(32:17):
professional interventions early.
And it's important to start those
conversations with your school and theclassroom teacher early as well.
Once they escalate, it's really difficult torein it in and,
you know, find the solutions that that childneeds to be able to develop in the way that we
(32:37):
would love our children to.
Great advice.
Well, thank you so much, Amanda and Mel, forjoining us and sharing your expertise on
understanding and managing school avoidance.
If you'd like to connect with us and learnmore about LiveBIG, visit livebig.com au and
don't forget to subscribe for moreconversations like this.
(33:00):
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you nexttime.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of thisnation whose country we work and live in.
We recognise Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslanders as traditional custodians and their
ongoing connections to land and sea.
We pay our respects to elders past, presentand emerging as law keepers of the world's
(33:23):
oldest living culture.
We celebrate the stories, culture andtraditions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islanders so we can, in the true spirit ofreconciliation,
continue the journey together.
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