One of our fans wrote to me recently about a webinar she attended on the veterinary use of probiotics:
"The thing that intrigued me was…a study where one group of pregnant bitches was on a yeast-based probiotic, and the control group on no probiotic. There were benefits to both bitches and puppies, such as more stable GI tract and stool quality during whelping in the mothers on the probiotic, and they were less likely to have puppies of low birth weight.
I know Jane works a lot at supporting the gut biome, but interesting info about a specific yeast and a specific time."
This podcast untangles:
- The difference between yeast and bacteria-based probiotics
- How yeast-based probiotic supplements might help or harm a pregnant bitch, depending on the context
- How to decide if a yeast or other probiotic is appropriate for your pregnant dam
Visit our website www.madcapradio.com for further reading.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,
and this is a Puppy Culturepotluck podcast.
You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.
(00:21):
This episode
we're going to talk aboutthe therapeutic use
of probiotic supplementationfor pregnant bitches.
One of my fans wrote in to merecently about a webinar
she attended on the veterinaryuse of probiotics.
And this is what she said.
(00:41):
The thing that intrigued me was a studywhere one group of pregnant bitches
was on a yeast based probiotic,and the control
group on no probiotic.
There were benefits to both bitchesand puppies, such as more stable GI
tract and stool quality during whelpingin the mothers on the probiotic,
(01:04):
and they were less likelyto have puppies of low birth weight.
I know Jane works a lotat supplementing the gut biome,
but interesting info about a specificyeast and a specific time.
Anyway, I thought it was an interesting
bit of info to put in our breedingand well-being toolkit.
They talked about the times to useprobiotics, like to prevent GI stress
(01:28):
and upset for dogs that are botheredby travel, company or antibiotic use,
as well as dogs with chronicGI issues, but also in reproduction.
Okay, this is me again.
Probiotic supplementationis really having a moment right
(01:48):
now, and I do think it's particularly hot
in the veterinary community, like as an
as a new kind of tool.
But context is everything.
And we need to talk about context
when it comes to whether it's a good idea
(02:08):
to supplement your brood bitches
with probiotic supplements of any kind,and specifically
with yeast based probiotics.
So let's talk
just briefly about yeast versus bacteriabased probiotics.
This is not a course level
(02:29):
detail discussion.
It's just a primer to position it for you.
Probiotics come from food sources.
Things like yogurt, fermented vegetables,kefir, kombucha.
Yogurt and fermented vegetables
use a bacteria based fermentation
process versus kefir
(02:51):
and kombucha, which use a Scoby,
which is a symbiotic colony of yeastand bacteria.
S c o b y.
So kefirand kombucha are much more complex
blends of many different probioticbacteria and yeasts.
(03:15):
But that's not to say that they're better
or not as good as a yogurt,
or a kimchi, or a miso or a sauerkraut.
They're just different. Okay.
All of these fermented foodshave their contribution to make.
Dairy and plant ferments
use different probioticsto do their fermentation,
(03:39):
and even different kinds of yogurtwill have different probiotics in them.
So again, it's notthat one is better than the other, it's
just that yeast based probioticshave, number one, a better chance
of surviving the high stomachacid in a dog's gut.
A dog's gut is a carnivore gut.
(04:01):
It's super short.
It's super high acid compared to our long
lower acid omnivore intestines.
So those yeasts, they just standa better chance of surviving that
trip down that super acidic gut,than a bacteria does.
And second of all,
(04:22):
the yeasts stand a better chanceof surviving a round of antibiotics
because the antibiotic, remember, is goingto be an equal opportunity destroyer.
It's going to destroy all the bacteriait comes in contact with.
The good guys and the bad guys.
So it's going to strip that gut,leave it vulnerable to dysbiosis,
(04:45):
leave it vulnerable to a pathogencoming in and taking root.
And a yeast based probioticin that instance can be helpful
because the yeast will survivethe antibiotic
better and sort of crowd out the bad guys.
And with any luck, placehold
until the good bacteria can reestablish.
(05:08):
After the antibiotics are gone.
All that having
been said, we always have to remember
that the name of the game is balanceand diversity.
When it comes to the gut biome.
Food sources are always going to winfor this.
End of story.
(05:28):
The co-factors and diversity in foodsources
is always going to be way beyondanything you can get
in a pill.
The yeast based probioticthat's on everyone's
radar right now is Saccharomycesboulardii.
There are natural foodsources of S boulardii,
(05:49):
namely kombucha and kefir.
So your yeast Scoby based
probiotics are going to have S boulardii.
Now if you want to go down a rabbit hole,you may read
that food sources do not have a quotesignificant unquote amount of S boulardii.
(06:10):
But this is always in the contextof talking
about curing actual diseaseswith probiotics.
So studies of IBD and antibiotic diarrheaand things like that.
So we as dog breedershave to make a distinction between
therapeutic versus healthy diet doses,because it's really significant
(06:34):
when we're making decisions about when
and how to supplement with probiotics.
Because when we
start introducing nuclear amounts
of a narrow band of probiotic
of any kind to be a yeast or bacteria,
(06:56):
we are taking up a lot of real estatein the gut and potentially crowding out
bad guys as in that antibiotic scenariothat I just gave.
But we're also possiblyunbalancing the gut.
So it's not something
to just be taken lightly and thrown.
(07:18):
It's not a completely benign intervention.
It could have unbalancing effects
that could lead to dysbiosis, ultimately.
But you know,it is a tool that can be useful
once dysbiosis occursand you have symptoms
(07:38):
or you have good reason to suspect
that there's some sort of deficiencyor problem brewing.
It's sort of an emergency situation.
And therapeutic doses may be indicated.
Okay.
Circling back to that veterinary webinar
(07:59):
context again, is everything.
That webinar was sponsoredby a pet food company
that makes highly processed pet food.
The vetthat was presenting the seminar both works
for the pet food companyand is an emissary for that company.
And the animals in that study were animalsthat were fed
(08:23):
a highly processed dietwith very little variety
and no additional fermented foods.
So this is absolutely useful informationin that context.
And if you are a veterinarian
and you have clients presenting to youwith bitches that have been weaned on
(08:47):
to this kind of diet and have been eatingthis kind of diet their whole lives,
yes, these therapeutic dosesof S boulardii
may be beneficial at certain timesduring the pregnancy,
but for those of us
that have weaned for many generations
onto whole food dietswith a variety of fermented add ons,
(09:12):
this supplementationwould not be advisable, in my opinion,
unless the
dam had to be on antibioticsfor some reason
or some other symptom of dysbiosispops up.
I would not advise supplementing
with a pill form of probioticin that context.
(09:34):
Now, regarding pregnancy,I will say that pregnancy in general
is taxing on the bodyand also it's an immune suppressed state.
So if there are any underlyingsmall things brewing
that might have been kept in checknormally, pregnancy can bring those out.
So even if your bitch has beenon a whole food diet with fermented foods
(09:56):
her entire life,but she's pregnant and now experiencing
a symptom of dysbiosis,such as diarrhea during pregnancy,
then yes, I might be reachingfor therapeutic doses of yeast
and bacterial probiotics in that instance,but I would only do that
after I had exhaustedmy remedies with food sources.
(10:20):
And if you have a dam who has
not been weaned and raised on whole foodswith fermented foods,
this could be a good trick for youto have up your sleeve during pregnancy.
But again,if your dam's been on Whole Foods
her entire life and was weaned onto a diet that included things
such as yogurt,kefir, sauerkraut, and kombucha,
(10:42):
I wouldn't prophylacticallygo in and introduce
a new clear amount of probiotics
because you worked hardthe entire life of that animal
to colonizeand then build up a stable gut community.
And there's no implicit benefitto disrupting that community
unless it'sindicated by a specific symptom.
(11:05):
At least that's my opinion,and that's what I do,
just based on my experienceand the science as I read it.
I think
the easiest way to look atthis is overall,
is there a symptom or a reason
to believe that there's a problem?
(11:25):
A symptomwould be something like diarrhea.
A reason to believe that there'ssome kind of problem would be a bitch
that has been fed a processed diether whole life,
or even one that perhaps was not weaned on
to a whole food diet that was feda processed diet early in her life.
(11:45):
Because that's when the gut biomeis colonized as early in life.
We go over this in the upcomingweaning course, but
I'm just going to drop it herethat those first few foods that you feed
are really going to be formativeas far as how that gut is, is colonized.
So if you have one of those situations
(12:06):
I'm going to say probiotic supplementationcomes up higher on my list.
And if I'm a veterinarian
and I'm seeing a bitchpresenting with a problem,
probiotic supplementationis going to be higher up on my list.
But the message I really want to get outhere is twofold.
(12:26):
Number one, that there is a differencebetween yeast and bacteria
based probiotics and the yeast probiotics
can definitely have a specific benefit
in certain caseswhere bacterial probiotics might fail,
but also that
(12:47):
supplementing in a pill form
rather than getting from a food source,
is not something to be doneindiscriminately or taken lightly.
It is medicine,just like antibiotics are medicine
and subject to the same overuseand abuse as other kinds of medicine.
(13:08):
If you liked this podcast,
you'll love our breedercourses and bundles at puppyculture.com.
Breeders, do you want to get your puppyowners started off on the right foot?
Check out our bulkdiscounts for puppy owner courses
at puppyculture.com.
Well, that's it for this time.
(13:29):
Thanks for listening. Bye bye.
I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,
and this is a Puppy Culturepotluck podcast.
You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.
(00:21):
This episode
we're going to talk aboutthe therapeutic use
of probiotic supplementationfor pregnant bitches.
One of my fans wrote in to merecently about a webinar
she attended on the veterinaryuse of probiotics.
And this is what she said.
(00:41):
The thing that intrigued me was a studywhere one group of pregnant bitches
was on a yeast based probiotic,and the control
group on no probiotic.
There were benefits to both bitchesand puppies, such as more stable GI
tract and stool quality during whelpingin the mothers on the probiotic,
(01:04):
and they were less likelyto have puppies of low birth weight.
I know Jane works a lotat supplementing the gut biome,
but interesting info about a specificyeast and a specific time.
Anyway, I thought it was an interesting
bit of info to put in our breedingand well-being toolkit.
They talked about the times to useprobiotics, like to prevent GI stress
(01:28):
and upset for dogs that are botheredby travel, company or antibiotic use,
as well as dogs with chronicGI issues, but also in reproduction.
Okay, this is me again.
Probiotic supplementationis really having a moment right
(01:48):
now, and I do think it's particularly hot
in the veterinary community, like as an
as a new kind of tool.
But context is everything.
And we need to talk about context
when it comes to whether it's a good idea
(02:08):
to supplement your brood bitches
with probiotic supplements of any kind,and specifically
with yeast based probiotics.
So let's talk
just briefly about yeast versus bacteriabased probiotics.
This is not a course level
(02:29):
detail discussion.
It's just a primer to position it for you.
Probiotics come from food sources.
Things like yogurt, fermented vegetables,kefir, kombucha.
Yogurt and fermented vegetables
use a bacteria based fermentation
process versus kefir
(02:51):
and kombucha, which use a Scoby,
which is a symbiotic colony of yeastand bacteria.
S c o b y.
So kefirand kombucha are much more complex
blends of many different probioticbacteria and yeasts.
(03:15):
But that's not to say that they're better
or not as good as a yogurt,
or a kimchi, or a miso or a sauerkraut.
They're just different. Okay.
All of these fermented foodshave their contribution to make.
Dairy and plant ferments
use different probioticsto do their fermentation,
(03:39):
and even different kinds of yogurtwill have different probiotics in them.
So again, it's notthat one is better than the other, it's
just that yeast based probioticshave, number one, a better chance
of surviving the high stomachacid in a dog's gut.
A dog's gut is a carnivore gut.
(04:01):
It's super short.
It's super high acid compared to our long
lower acid omnivore intestines.
So those yeasts, they just standa better chance of surviving that
trip down that super acidic gut,than a bacteria does.
And second of all,
(04:22):
the yeasts stand a better chanceof surviving a round of antibiotics
because the antibiotic, remember, is goingto be an equal opportunity destroyer.
It's going to destroy all the bacteriait comes in contact with.
The good guys and the bad guys.
So it's going to strip that gut,leave it vulnerable to dysbiosis,
(04:45):
leave it vulnerable to a pathogencoming in and taking root.
And a yeast based probioticin that instance can be helpful
because the yeast will survivethe antibiotic
better and sort of crowd out the bad guys.
And with any luck, placehold
until the good bacteria can reestablish.
(05:08):
After the antibiotics are gone.
All that having
been said, we always have to remember
that the name of the game is balanceand diversity.
When it comes to the gut biome.
Food sources are always going to winfor this.
End of story.
(05:28):
The co-factors and diversity in foodsources
is always going to be way beyondanything you can get
in a pill.
The yeast based probioticthat's on everyone's
radar right now is Saccharomycesboulardii.
There are natural foodsources of S boulardii,
(05:49):
namely kombucha and kefir.
So your yeast Scoby based
probiotics are going to have S boulardii.
Now if you want to go down a rabbit hole,you may read
that food sources do not have a quotesignificant unquote amount of S boulardii.
(06:10):
But this is always in the contextof talking
about curing actual diseaseswith probiotics.
So studies of IBD and antibiotic diarrheaand things like that.
So we as dog breedershave to make a distinction between
therapeutic versus healthy diet doses,because it's really significant
(06:34):
when we're making decisions about when
and how to supplement with probiotics.
Because when we
start introducing nuclear amounts
of a narrow band of probiotic
of any kind to be a yeast or bacteria,
(06:56):
we are taking up a lot of real estatein the gut and potentially crowding out
bad guys as in that antibiotic scenariothat I just gave.
But we're also possiblyunbalancing the gut.
So it's not something
to just be taken lightly and thrown.
(07:18):
It's not a completely benign intervention.
It could have unbalancing effects
that could lead to dysbiosis, ultimately.
But you know,it is a tool that can be useful
once dysbiosis occursand you have symptoms
(07:38):
or you have good reason to suspect
that there's some sort of deficiencyor problem brewing.
It's sort of an emergency situation.
And therapeutic doses may be indicated.
Okay.
Circling back to that veterinary webinar
(07:59):
context again, is everything.
That webinar was sponsoredby a pet food company
that makes highly processed pet food.
The vetthat was presenting the seminar both works
for the pet food companyand is an emissary for that company.
And the animals in that study were animalsthat were fed
(08:23):
a highly processed dietwith very little variety
and no additional fermented foods.
So this is absolutely useful informationin that context.
And if you are a veterinarian
and you have clients presenting to youwith bitches that have been weaned on
(08:47):
to this kind of diet and have been eatingthis kind of diet their whole lives,
yes, these therapeutic dosesof S boulardii
may be beneficial at certain timesduring the pregnancy,
but for those of us
that have weaned for many generations
onto whole food dietswith a variety of fermented add ons,
(09:12):
this supplementationwould not be advisable, in my opinion,
unless the
dam had to be on antibioticsfor some reason
or some other symptom of dysbiosispops up.
I would not advise supplementing
with a pill form of probioticin that context.
(09:34):
Now, regarding pregnancy,I will say that pregnancy in general
is taxing on the bodyand also it's an immune suppressed state.
So if there are any underlyingsmall things brewing
that might have been kept in checknormally, pregnancy can bring those out.
So even if your bitch has beenon a whole food diet with fermented foods
(09:56):
her entire life,but she's pregnant and now experiencing
a symptom of dysbiosis,such as diarrhea during pregnancy,
then yes, I might be reachingfor therapeutic doses of yeast
and bacterial probiotics in that instance,but I would only do that
after I had exhaustedmy remedies with food sources.
(10:20):
And if you have a dam who has
not been weaned and raised on whole foodswith fermented foods,
this could be a good trick for youto have up your sleeve during pregnancy.
But again,if your dam's been on Whole Foods
her entire life and was weaned onto a diet that included things
such as yogurt,kefir, sauerkraut, and kombucha,
(10:42):
I wouldn't prophylacticallygo in and introduce
a new clear amount of probiotics
because you worked hardthe entire life of that animal
to colonizeand then build up a stable gut community.
And there's no implicit benefitto disrupting that community
unless it'sindicated by a specific symptom.
(11:05):
At least that's my opinion,and that's what I do,
just based on my experienceand the science as I read it.
I think
the easiest way to look atthis is overall,
is there a symptom or a reason
to believe that there's a problem?
(11:25):
A symptomwould be something like diarrhea.
A reason to believe that there'ssome kind of problem would be a bitch
that has been fed a processed diether whole life,
or even one that perhaps was not weaned on
to a whole food diet that was feda processed diet early in her life.
(11:45):
Because that's when the gut biomeis colonized as early in life.
We go over this in the upcomingweaning course, but
I'm just going to drop it herethat those first few foods that you feed
are really going to be formativeas far as how that gut is, is colonized.
So if you have one of those situations
(12:06):
I'm going to say probiotic supplementationcomes up higher on my list.
And if I'm a veterinarian
and I'm seeing a bitchpresenting with a problem,
probiotic supplementationis going to be higher up on my list.
But the message I really want to get outhere is twofold.
(12:26):
Number one, that there is a differencebetween yeast and bacteria
based probiotics and the yeast probiotics
can definitely have a specific benefit
in certain caseswhere bacterial probiotics might fail,
but also that
(12:47):
supplementing in a pill form
rather than getting from a food source,
is not something to be doneindiscriminately or taken lightly.
It is medicine,just like antibiotics are medicine
and subject to the same overuseand abuse as other kinds of medicine.
(13:08):
If you liked this podcast,
you'll love our breedercourses and bundles at puppyculture.com.
Breeders, do you want to get your puppyowners started off on the right foot?
Check out our bulkdiscounts for puppy owner courses
at puppyculture.com.
Well, that's it for this time.
(13:29):
Thanks for listening. Bye bye.
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